Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
TSR Book Club: A Lady Awakened by Cecilia Grant
12 Plays21 minutes ago
Our June book club pick was A Lady Awakened by Cecilia Grant. It was Holly's choice, and ended up being a very Holly book. Erin and Ingrid were less enthused.
Buy A Lady Awakened:: Amazon | Bookshop | Libro.fm
Full show notes at smutreport.com/podcast
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Book Club Excitement
00:00:00
Speaker
But going to have to deal with hundreds of pages of terrible sex. In fact, I would argue... Here, I'm going to do a hot take. There's no good sex in this book. There is one passable implies that it will get better.
00:00:13
Speaker
But there is no good sex in this book. Not any. None. Hi, welcome back to the Smut Report podcast. hi welcome back to the smut report podcast It's book club time And this was my month. And I am so happy with my choice. I had actually not read it yet. But I have no regrets. Ingrid might have some regrets. But we will talk about that.
Discussing 'A Lady Awakened': A Polarizing Romance
00:00:41
Speaker
Anyway, I'm Holly. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Erin. And our book club book this month is a Lady Awakened by Cecilia Grant. So some background on this book. It came out in maybe 2012, 2013. Cecilia Grant wrote one series trilogy of books and a prequel and then has not written anything since at least under that name maybe she's written things under another name that I don't know about yeah if she is she's very secretive about it ah and many super romance nerds especially super historical romance nerds are like this is a perfect set of books and Cecilia Grant please come back to us we love you and we don't deserve you but
00:01:31
Speaker
And Aaron and I have both read the prequel novella, which is A Christmas Gone Perfectly Wrong. And it's ah like a pretty spectacular. way and like perfect Christmas romance is perfect. Perfect Christmas romance, basically. So I was like, you know what? It's time. We're going to read a Lady
Goodreads Reviews: A Tale of Extremes
00:01:48
Speaker
Awakened together. But I didn't know anything about the plot or what happens in this book. Just that people really love it. but If you go to the Goodreads reviews, though, you will see that it is... quite polarizing.
00:02:01
Speaker
It has many five-star reviews, people who love it. And then it has many one-star reviews, people who really, really dislike it. And not a lot in the middle. so It's going to be a fun talk. That's where we're at.
The 'Heat Factor' of the Book
00:02:17
Speaker
ah So let's start with the heat factor. And that's me. I'm just going to keep talking. So the heat factor is Theo and Martha have copious amounts of excruciatingly terrible sex. They do.
00:02:33
Speaker
So it's kind of like the opposite of panty melting. It's like panty freezing. Panty hardening. shri For most of the book. And they do eventually have some good sex but it is not... super detailed yeah like it doesn't get super explicit or sexy so yeah but that's a lot of sex there is a lot of sex that is not very sexy yeah and I I was like oh thank god that's done after the first two scenes because I was like surely that'll be it and now it'll start shifting and that's not the case but we're gonna put a pin in that because I want to talk about this bad sex in more detail but first the character chemistry
00:03:14
Speaker
All right. Character chemistry. They have no chemistry until they catch feelings. Yeah. Yes. And they catch feelings because of their collaborative human to human interactions. Right. Yeah.
00:03:28
Speaker
like Yeah. There you go. That's right. yes Yes. Yeah. Because I would say for the first half of the book, It's more than half, actually. But yes, you're correct. Yes, that is true. It's more than half.
00:03:41
Speaker
Well, so okay. The plot. Martha is recently widowed after being married for only like
Martha's Dilemma and Deal with Theo
00:03:51
Speaker
a year. And learns that her husband, in expectation of a son, left pretty much everything to his brother. And then learns that his brother had a history of raping the staff while he was living in the house. And therefore resolves to ensure that she can provide an heir, even though it's not her husband's. Enter Theo, who was sent down to the country by his father for being a wastrel.
00:04:25
Speaker
And together they strike up a deal, a sex deal, so that she can have a baby and he can have money. But he's just like, OK, whatever, I'll just have sex with this lady. She's something to do in the country. But as Ingrid said, time together breeds time talking and things develop from there. ah But in a pretty complicated way because of Martha's characterization and desires, which I see on our outline, we will discuss further on non. Yeah, that's a pretty thorough thoughts over. There's, there are like lots of characters. There's stuff that comes into play, but don't.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah, that's like the basic idea. So what's your overall? How many heart emojis do you give it? Because I give it 75 heart emojis out of 10. Of course you'd like this one.
00:05:12
Speaker
I... I think this book was really well written, like really well executed in terms of what Grant was trying to do. The characters stay true to themselves and to the plot and so on.
00:05:25
Speaker
But I think overall, I didn't actually like it. and But it's a lot of fodder for conversation. So I am actually looking forward to talking about it.
00:05:36
Speaker
Ingrid? I admire the craftsmanship.
Developing Chemistry and Intimacy
00:05:42
Speaker
of the book, I cannot say that I enjoyed the experience of reading most of the book. I just strongly feel that there are only so many times a person can read the word seed
00:05:59
Speaker
before Before they should be allowed to leave. It was so much seed. What if that was the right seed? What if that was the seed that she needed? Erin, when I read that part, I was like, you've got to be kidding me right now. Also just...
00:06:18
Speaker
Here's the thing. One of the barriers to my enjoyment really was the frequency and the unabashedness and the realism with which this terrible sex was depicted.
00:06:33
Speaker
So it was a barrier for me, but I, again, admire the craftsmanship. So what you guys are saying is it's going to be just like our flowers from the storm conversation.
00:06:45
Speaker
all over again. No, I don't know about... Well, I don't know about that. Where you guys were like, I did not enjoy reading this book, but I admire the Crestmanship. That's true. Well, okay, here's thing. And I'm just like, what is happening? I know. you know I really want to know.
00:07:01
Speaker
about your feelings, Holly. But I feel like Ingrid and I probably are not in the one star review category. No, no. Because it's not like my hang up stemmed from and not the uncomfortable sex. I thought that was actually kind of an interesting way to approach that. The story is like, instead of having like one uncomfortable sex scene and then like all of a sudden she has this awakening, like you might find in other historical romance books, Martha stayed true to herself for a long time. She's just like, get it over with. It's like, wow, that's a choice. But I didn't dislike that. I started to have some hangups because I started questioning the verisimilitude of the other characters when they were like, Yes, we will all back you up, which maybe we'll talk about later. so it was more of a like, okay, I got to look this up because I'm not buying it.
00:07:53
Speaker
And that, you know, always attracts from a book. If you lose your your connection with the verisimilitude, that's a problem. Yeah. My Flowers from the Storm issue stem from, one, a real discomfort with how the mailman character was treated because it struck a lot it's too close to home with a disabled person and how he was treated. And then also a lot of frustration with their connection to each other in view of the fact that they had very differing morals, which actually could be an interesting component of a discussion here. But I didn't, that was something that came to my mind, but it was less obvious or bothersome than these other things that I mentioned.
00:08:33
Speaker
So, it will you know, I don't obvious. I don't think so. I think we'll do fine. Yeah, it'll be great. Okay.
Martha's Motivations Beyond Inheritance
00:08:40
Speaker
Ingrid's just like, no, the sex, no, I can't.
00:08:43
Speaker
It was so hard, guys. yeah you You did a good job. So let's, sorry, Holly, please continue. so continue you Erin, I think, did a great job with her plot summary. One thing that I want to add to that is that Martha wants to hold on to her husband's land for herself to manage and hopefully for her child to inherit is not just because the brother who is set to inherit is a rapist. That's kind of like the icing on the cake. She's also just really invested in the community and her duties to the community. Duty is huge. And it's a huge part of who she is and why she is taking the actions that she is, you know, so she wants to protect the housemaids. Yes, but she's also been working with the local curate to start a school for the tenant children, and the estate is paying for it. And so if the brother inherits, you know, the curate's like, well, if you're not going to be here, we can't start the school because I don't know if we're going to have funding for it anymore.
00:09:49
Speaker
And she's really invested in educating these kids and especially educating the girls that are tied to the land but and improving the land for the tenants and improving their homes. And so, and the curate is a huge character in this book. There's a big contrast between the curate, Mr. Atkins and Theo and the way Martha thinks about them, especially initially, because Theo is very handsome and she's just like, ugh.
00:10:17
Speaker
And charming. And charming. She's like, anybody can be these. But if I were to marry again, I'd want a husband like Mr. Atkins. And she like, up to this point, her sexual fantasies have all been about Mr. Atkins, or someone like him, who will talk to her and make plans with her about doing things better.
00:10:38
Speaker
And then we'll like kind of approach her you know, gently and softly in the bedroom. And like, that's, that is what it is. But she has no interest in charming rakes, at least in the beginning. In fact, she scorns them. yes Yes, she scorns them. But so Mr. Atkins-Lakura is a kind of an important character in terms of contrast with Theo and how that ties in with how Martha is portrayed. You know, and kind of another big elephant in the room, he never appears, obviously, because he's dead, is Martha's first husband, Mr. Russell, who was an alcoholic. And Martha has done all of these improvements and gotten the school started because her husband would get really drunk and then... black out. And then the next day, she's like, man, I'm so glad you came up with that idea of funding the school last night. I think that will be so great. And good job. Yeah. And so that's how she's managed to do all of this.
00:11:38
Speaker
Because he didn't, he didn't care. And so everybody in the community, no, they don't know the details of how she did it. But they know that she's behind it, because all these improvements started once she she's married married in yeah yep yep and there are a lot of secondary characters the community is really built out you know including Martha's tenants and also Theo's laborers laborers who live on his land which maybe we'll talk about farming and setting uh but we'll see how long it takes us to talk about bad sex because I think the most important thing to talk about is bad sex and how Grant builds the relationship with
00:12:18
Speaker
Bad sex.
Unconventional Attraction to Theo
00:12:19
Speaker
Or fans too. This is Go, Ingrid. Go. I think the best launching point to me and Holly, you let me know if you think this is correct. The best launching point that I can come up with for how deep the bad sex runs for this woman is the way that she talks about Mirkwood's body, Theo's body. right So the first description of his body is yuck, yeah essentially. Yeah. Should we read it? Yeah. It's not. I've never in my life read.
00:12:52
Speaker
Here's what usually happens. And I want to stress this to the high heavens for anyone who's like, this sounds fascinating. It is. You should probably read it if you read a lot of romance. And this is why. Never once in my life have I ever seen an author who was like, oh, this character is a little traumatized and closed off and she's not interested in sex. Right. Who hasn't looked at the person like the hero and been like, all right, so I can't deny that he's very attractive, but he doesn't do anything for me. I don't know why my heart's racing. That's the way it usually goes.
00:13:22
Speaker
In this book, it goes. Go ahead, Holly. Okay. Okay. Clearly, he was expecting to be admired. He would be used to it. Well-proportioned man that he was. His musculature altogether outpaced what she'd seen in Mr. Russell. Though Mr. Russell had set no very difficult standard to surpass. That mattered to some women.
00:13:44
Speaker
Muscles and so forth. Those taut, flat ones across his stomach, for instance. Or the ones that stood out on his arms. Women who didn't place the proper priority on a man's character. had doubtless taught him to be vain of his physique and even a woman of principle could enjoy, on some aesthetic level, the picture he made with his shirt removed. I'm going to keep going because that's just the first part of it. Yeah. Take it home. Then he let his pantaloons fall and that was the end of the enjoyment.
00:14:17
Speaker
In its place welled that same dismay she'd shown known on her first viewing some 10 months past of a naked man. Whose idea of good design was this?
00:14:29
Speaker
Why those awkward angles and what could be the necessity for all that hair? If one believed, as the Bible and the Greek myths had it, that man had been created first and woman after, then one must conclude there had been some dramatic improvement in the process following that amateurish first attempt. Ugh.
00:14:50
Speaker
Where she was molded, he was rough-hewn. Where her form curved with logic and precision, not to mention breeding parts, tucked neatly away, he looked rangy, haphazard, his male parts an ill-placed afterthought. Like the last leftover bits of clay scraped together, rolled into primitive forms and stuck onto the middle of him, the stones in their rough red sack and that improbable appendage dangling to the fore.
00:15:19
Speaker
right okay so i've missed i misremembered apparently she thinks the rest of him is okay but that description of his private like could you imagine oh heavens to best well and that i think forms a great introduction to how a lot of their relationship especially the early part of their relationship goes because i i thought it was so Interesting that he is kind of a typical romance hero, right? He's like, I pride myself on pleasuring my bed partners.
00:15:53
Speaker
And of course, I've had numerous bed partners and I'm very good looking. But then also, she doesn't really explicitly say it, I don't think. But he doesn't quite realize until he's being rejected constantly by Martha that he prided himself all on all of this, but kind of just as a matter of course for his own self and not really for his partners. right And I thought that was pretty cool.
00:16:20
Speaker
But at the same time, he is having all of these mixed feelings because he came to it from that perspective. But he's like, this kind of sucks. Like, she really doesn't want me and that doesn't feel good. Like, I don't i don't really want to have sex with somebody who's just like, not even grinning and bearing it.
00:16:41
Speaker
And of course, that all comes to a head after they've had sex numerous times. It's the sigh. When she sighs. That was so magnificently I really wish he would get on with it and he loses his erection, which also never happens in romance novels. Right. Well, in that scene, he put her on top of the dresser or something. He's trying something new. He's just trying. He's trying. And every time he tries something, she's like, could you just stop? Yeah, this isn't necessary. Or what she says usually is, well, do you require it?
00:17:13
Speaker
Do you require this? And he's like, uh, I guess not Until I guess he realizes that he does But in that scene, he's put her on the dresser And she's just like, is this necessary? Is this necessary? And he's like, can you just not talk? Like, please Oh, it's so bad It's so bad just don't talk He just wants to like close his eyes He's to imagine somebody else Go somewhere else it Like pretend it's somebody who likes him Yeah, he's fighting for his life here. Yeah. And then there's the sigh. But that is paired also with a moment that happens also early in their relationship when they're first having sex, where they're sitting in her sitting room and he is telling her about his day.
Intellectual Connection Over Physical Attraction
00:17:58
Speaker
And then he asks her advice about something. Or he's like, was this the right decision that I made? Because part of his exile into the country is learning how to run an estate. And she obviously knows how to run an estate. and
00:18:12
Speaker
And she is so excited because this is all that she wants. She just wants in a partner somebody who, to tie back to our himbo conversation, who appreciates her big, beautiful brain and wants to talk to her about stuff and make decisions that collaboratively and so she starts talking and is like starts getting really excited and you know then he comes and like kneels in front of her and starts like kissing her hands or something and she's like you're not listening to me and he's like yeah oh yes yeah no I'm not but the way you're all excited about this is really attractive and she's just like fucking hell like really like really thought you actually listened to me but you know it's all back to the surface with you and I cannot respect that so I thought these scenes were so I mean they were deeply uncomfortable but also like so effective It's showing how far apart these characters are yeah in what they value and what and what they're looking for initially in a partner. Well, and I think this is one of the interesting things here. So like, I know we're talking about bad sex, but I don't think you can avoid, yes, motivations and the why. Because bad sex is, I mean, as this book interestingly points out, when sex is bad, it's usually not because of the mechanics.
00:19:40
Speaker
of it like it can be for certain individuals but for the most part for the average person right like when it's bad it's usually because of something else and so in this case yeah part of it is like what do you want and in order to express what you want one you have to know that it's an option number one and two it's vulnerability and i think that's really the key to the whole relationship is yeah yeah vulnerability and being seen. So like it just, there is a huge block because despite the fact that this is an agreed upon activity, they're both consenting adults. This is what she wants. She's very vocal about that. Even if she's acting like she doesn't, even if she is presenting like this is not something she's happy with, she's very clear that like, this is, I want you to do it. This is what I want. She, it's just, it doesn't look like it. Behavior is not matching the words, which of course is
00:20:32
Speaker
hugely confusing for him probably for modern readers as well it feels and that was one thing I want to talk about too because I was like oh there's discomfort but um the point is is the vulnerability it's so uncomfortable because you can have sex between two people who don't want to know each other or be vulnerable with each other and it can read on a page like good sex you can have right but when both characters need something else and they are unable to be vulnerable about what those things are that's when things are just a complete mismatch and it's terrible Yeah, that was really hard for me.
00:21:03
Speaker
i like the way that you guys are describing it because it makes everything much more sympathetic. We'll hopefully get to talking about Martha and her characterization because I'm sure that a lot of the one stars are Martha's and unlikable heroine, which is true.
00:21:18
Speaker
So I feel like in this situation, Theo is the more sympathetic character, right? As you're talking, I'm like, aha, I understand better ah what my issues were.
00:21:29
Speaker
They're coming into it with their preconceived notions. Yeah. And their unwillingness to specify their desires, right, as Ingrid was saying. So as Holly was saying, they're not seeing each other or expressing what they really need in order to be successful. But that layered with their preconceived notions is makes this part of the book just like so uncomfortable. And the reason that Theo is more sympathetic is because his preconceived notions are probably more palatable, right? She's like, ugh, men only want one thing, and i don't need to provide anything to him for him to be able to do the deed. She has no conception that he might need to be treated like a desirable person in any way whatsoever. Right. and
00:22:19
Speaker
perhaps that's part of her experience i think a lot of it is down to her
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, see, I will put a pin on that too. Yeah, Theo's is the reason I said it was more palatable is because, it's like I said, it's almost coming from that selfish perspective where he thought he was a great lover, but without considering his partner, actually. And so when he agreed to this arrangement, he was thinking, oh, I'll have a bit of fun with the widow. That'll be a good time.
00:22:51
Speaker
and He's not really seeing that she needs more than just the mechanics, I guess she used Ingrid's term, that there could be something else that would make it more fulfilling for her. Yeah. Well, and when you're talking about Theo being more palatable, I think it's also part of it is what romance readers are primed to expect and what they want in a book yeah is emotional, emotional,
00:23:17
Speaker
connection through physical desire. Like that's not everything that romance readers want in a book, but that's like a big part of why people romance novels, right? is Is emotional connection related to physical desire. And Martha isn't interested in that. And I think that's very off-putting for many readers. She talks about the midpoint of the book, you know, where Ingrid is talking about vulnerability. And I'm thinking about this scene where,
00:23:47
Speaker
They're like taking a walk together or something. And she's like, Oh, no, I know how to have an orgasm. I know what I need to like enjoy sex. But I choose not to allow you to do that to me. Because I do not respect you as a person. I mean, I'm saying it harsher than she did, but not a lot harsher than she did. Not a lot harsher. That's true. Right? Because basically, well, this is because I think there's a key part here, though, because what she's saying, too, is that it's not that she's like, I'm not going orgasm because I don't respect you. What she says is, I'm already struggling enough with the weight of what I'm doing. morality of this choice, yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker
That she feels that she's stuck in and in a gray area where it is lose-lose. Like, she doesn't feel good about it, but she's doing what she feels she has to do. And that by restricting herself from seeking pleasure, that...
00:24:34
Speaker
It feels like it makes it more morally acceptable to her and that it would be different if he was someone that she respected. For her to seek pleasure while she's doing something she feels morally ashamed of with someone she doesn't even respect is just one step too low. It's like she just can't take that one step too far. And and i think that that is that is kind of a pivotal moment. Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:59
Speaker
I would also like to point out with the bad sex, something that I think might be making other readers feel uncomfortable, and that's this. The bad sex that's referred to, right, between both her and Theo and especially in her past marriage, because I think that really set her up for what's happening here. Mm-hmm. It's so much easier as readers to categorize it as not okay when it's like, oh, it's terry she was with a terrible villain who beat her.
00:25:26
Speaker
He was a terrible man who abused her, you know? And in this case, with this being a historical novel, I think that it's not uncommon for women to experience this kind of like entitled taking without consideration to her experience, right? And it's not like when women have this experience with men, it's not like these men are terrible people, right? It's just the dynamic of having something taken without consideration for how the woman feels. Do you know what i mean? It's that an entitled dynamic. I don't know how else, to I might be putting this wrong. But the point is, it's so much harder to read it from the perspective of watching someone experience it
00:26:09
Speaker
So clinically almost these scenes are not like flowery and watching her experience that like that, I think is uncomfortable because it makes it more obvious how weird that is.
00:26:22
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't feel right. So are you kind of Getting at like a, if you're experiencing it yourself. Or have experienced Potentially. Yeah. or you You can be like, well, that didn't go the way that I wanted it to.
00:26:37
Speaker
Reasons X, Y, z Oh, but he was such a nice guy. Oh, but he, Yeah. yeah but he's my husband yeah or whatever it is he's my boyfriend it's not with bad men it's bad sex with good with okay men like good men it's okay well it's like i i mean it's hard to describe but what i'm trying to say that like asterisk right like you know lacking awareness plenty of women have relationships with men and have very dissatisfying sexual lives and would never think of it that way because they kind of are like, well, okay, it's whatever. Oh, well, this is just how men are. Oh, well, yeah, like the rest of my life is so good, right? But when you read it this way, it is so it's very uncomfortable because you're like, oh my gosh, like this is a whole- Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? You know what i mean? Yeah, this is so uncomfortable.
00:27:24
Speaker
And i do think that there's something to that too, where it examines the casual dismissiveness that our society treats women as whole people. And that it would be perfectly fine, like denying women feelings of safety, being comfortable, being vulnerable, being able to demand equal treatment in their relationships, like demanding that women suffer through things that are uncomfortable for them just because it's their job. Like it's it is so subtle. It's not like in your face. But there's also this undercurrent of like, I'm not just uncomfortable because the scenes are clumsy and they're like, oh, it's also so because it's just so matter of fact. That's the discomfort as well. She just takes it. Yeah. Well, and I think that's interesting just in terms of romance novels, which are often held up as this space of female fantasy, female with an asterisk. I like lots of people who are not women read and write romance novels. yes But, you know, i'm talking about big picture discourse that romance novels are where women can have fantasies about men who give them good sex. I mean, right.
00:28:32
Speaker
And emotional connection. And you get everything. A billionaire lifestyle. Like what all the things, but especially good sex. So I think part of it is also the genre is like putting so much of this kind of uncomfortable sex exactly in the way Ingrid described. I think Ingrid, you're exactly right. But it's especially jarring because it's in a romance novel. yeah And people who are reading this book are coming to it primed for exactly the opposite kind of experience sex and relationship. Yeah.
00:29:05
Speaker
Yeah. To be described. Right. And it doesn't, it doesn't do it briefly. Like I said, i expected it to be like one time. And then when it wasn't one time, when it was, what, over half, I don't want to say two quarters. know, texted, she's like, such uncomfortable sex. I was like, okay, an uncomfortable sex scene. No, no, no. It's not, it's not, it's the point. Yeah. I think I texted you after the first one. First scene. And I was like, oh my God, this sex is so uncomfortable. It's amazing. Holly does enjoy a bad first sex scene. Oh my God, I love a bad first sex scene.
00:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, I still think it was amazingly done. i probably would not have texted you at the midpoint of the book about how amazing all the uncomfortable sex was. But but it developed the book, interestingly, though, as well, because initially, Martha has Theo come over like during the day and they just get down and he leaves. Yeah. And then he becomes more involved in the work on his estate. And he is like, I have to do the thrashing for the next couple of days because I'm trying to impress the land agents so that I can go back to London eventually. And so I can't come during the day. So what should we do?
00:30:23
Speaker
And then they start sleeping together at night. Which is another big step for Which is another. Yeah. So there's all these moments where it's like, like Holly was describing earlier with a conversation they're having early on that ended up not going well because Martha was like, oh, he was only talking to me for sex reasons instead of meaningful reasons. Like that doesn't continue. And Theo initially also was like kind of being a turd to her. Yeah. Because he's like, you want, you're excited about land management. So how about you read these books and then you tell me the bullet points so that I don't actually have to do the work, you know?
00:31:01
Speaker
But they end up having, like, they end up making that also a part of their time together. So it's, it becomes, initially it's just about sex. But it's after they have hanky-panky is the key. Yeah, yeah. So she's like, when we're done and we're going to do this work. And I thought Theo was interesting as a character because may come off as lacking the curiosity to put forth the effort to learn. But when he is actually put in a position for experiential learning, he really likes it. And so I thought it was interesting, too, where it's like they have all these notions, Martha in particular, about, you know, oh he's so unserious and he doesn't value reading it. She's always wanting people to learn reading it. You know, she's got books and everything else. um
00:31:47
Speaker
But he he does get excited about learning just in a different way than what she or the land agent think is the right way to learn. So I thought that was interesting, just like as an aside. But it's as they have these additional conversations and then start spending the night together and having more... personal conversations that the relationship develops and develops obviously in a way that Martha likes but also the sex gets better I mean it's still she doesn't have an orgasm until oh boy other than there's one earlier on where she gives one to herself but it was a a cool intentional progression where their intimacy interpersonally was reflected in the intimacy of the sex And I was wondering, so this is a historical romance, and it's a 2011 book, I believe. Yeah, something that. do you think that we can read Martha as, like, demisexual?
Is Martha Demisexual or Sapiosexual?
00:32:44
Speaker
Or what's the one where people are attracted to intellect? Sapiosexual. You know, here's the thing. i I'm always interested. Here's what i how I prefer to look at this. And I don't know. I'm really curious how other people and how you guys feel about this. But much like when we read characters who were like, that sounds a little autistic or that character seems like they might have a little bit of the old ADHD.
00:33:05
Speaker
I like to say that I see some characteristics in characters, but I don't know that I like i feel super comfortable just defining characters. know what I mean? Like that character is that. So that's why I said earlier, like I saw some things in the beginning and I was like, I wonder if this woman is ace. Yeah. Because I could see those those moments in it. But I think like I think that this book very subtly and carefully examines sexuality between two people and within one person in a way that is not. How do you put this? Her behavior, her feelings, her thoughts, the point is that it could it could be that she has had like a really bad experience with her husband and that's why, but it could also be that she just she needs other things. It's not explicitly stated. I have a hard time with sex because my husband was so terrible and i had such a bad experience and now I'm fine.
00:33:53
Speaker
you know I think at one point, Erin, to highlight what you said, he says something after she orgasms with him. And he says, man, like if I had known that tying me up would have done this, like if I had known all this time, that's quite a blow to my ego that it could have been like this all the time. And she said, no, i needed to know you.
00:34:07
Speaker
Now that I know you, I feel this way. Yeah. So that's where I think you got that from. Right. Right. Well, I i thought it was building. Yeah. Right. I think her fundamental need from early on to know and respect her partner before she is remotely interested in sex is telling. But you're very right. I mean, self-labeling is... It's And this is not a place where that would happen. So it was kind of like her underlying desire for this personal connection before she could even consider sex. But it could just be that, like you often talk about, the vulnerability component makes it too hard to consider doing something unless she knows somebody. Because she's really got to put herself out there and trust her partner. And she hasn't had that experience. I think this is yeah and an interesting part of the conversation because I do think that and this is one of the things I love about authors who do such a good job with show don't tell. She doesn't explain any of this. She just leaves it there and then you think about it. Right. Yeah. I don't know how you read a book like this and walk away from it without concluding that sexuality and sex and relationships isn't a deeply complicated and multifaceted issue.
00:35:23
Speaker
i I don't know how this this highlights that exact scenario. It's not that simple. There are so many layers. We're complicated human beings. Anyway, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, Erin, because i had had the same little like moments of huh in my head about her and what makes her tick and her sexuality and all of that. And I thought it was interesting, too. So can we kind of move into talking about Martha's characterization more broadly? Yes.
Martha's Moral Code and Reader Perceptions
00:35:50
Speaker
Mm hmm.
00:35:50
Speaker
Because as Aaron kind of alluded to earlier, and as one might expect, a lot of the one star reviews for this book are because people are like, Martha is terrible. And I think in a lot of ways she is not super sympathetic. Erin, you described her as pious and I don't think piety is the right word that I would use. I think she's more, she has a very strong internal moral code that is very tied to duty and noblesse oblige, like let's be real and protecting the people under her. and doing the right thing.
00:36:31
Speaker
And it means that like, she's not very fun and she's like not very good at talking to people. Oh my God. She kind of lectures people. talks at people. She doesn't do too well, but she's a good listener. i mean, that's the thing. Anyway, go ahead. yeah Sorry, I'm jumping. No, she is. She's a good listener, but she's she's a real lecturer and I empathize with that.
00:36:57
Speaker
ah um but yeah and she doesn't really soften she never stops being herself like a little bit she when she and Theo start doing farm stuff together and visiting people together and she's like oh I see that having charm could be a helpful thing in some of these interactions but yeah ah some readers really really dislike Martha I mean, I really dislike Martha. i thought she's amazing. You guys are using such nice words to describe some of her behaviors.
00:37:35
Speaker
So for the sake of contrast, perhaps, okay she's the maybe the nicest thing I'll say is that she engages in a lot of black and white thinking and ah maybe has reason to do so. Or has reason for her beliefs, as we have discussed her relationship with her husband. Her family, i like Holly and I read A Christmas Gone Perfectly Wrong, which is the first like the 0.5 novella intro to this book. And I do recall, it's been some time, but I do recall that the hero, her brother, was just had to stick up his ass. Like, yeah, so far. So she's kind of by herself in this book. But, you know,
00:38:21
Speaker
We can get the feel that the family was probably in the same position, but... i mean, she describes her father as an upright and abstemious man. Yeah, so exactly.
00:38:34
Speaker
Yes. But, I mean, she's extremely judgmental. She has a propensity for believing that people need help getting to the, quote, right viewpoint. And...
00:38:47
Speaker
like She's surprised multiple times when Theo demonstrates that he has learned or undertaken something on his own without her guiding him to the right conclusions. And I was just like, ew.
00:39:02
Speaker
Like, that's not... a great way to have a partnership and it progresses i mean like once she sees that she does shift a little bit with respect to theo from a hundred percent thinking that he needs this like guidance to being more willing to treat him as equal but she doesn't really with respect to her tenants and his laborers She well it's a it's a they need education thing, which is awesome, but it is deeply rooted in the upper class are responsible for providing the correct guidance to the lower classes. Yes. And i it was that was also I was like, know.
00:39:47
Speaker
Right. But also, brave choice for Cecilia Grant to actually include that, which is probably, just guessing, how the British upper classes thought.
00:40:00
Speaker
oh yeah. all the Still. Still. To this day. Oh, I mean, it's definitely... a or see all the upper classes everywhere. Sorry. You can see it's this ideology of... Is it noblesse oblige? It's a little bit of noblesse oblige, but it's also like we have to do this, but it's also these people who are poorer or lower class are like our children that need guidance and the way that we spend our money on their needs because are they being paid a fair wage or not? Yeah.
00:40:30
Speaker
No, they are obviously not. Right. Like the way we get to decide what they get and what's right instead of a more equitable capitalist system. But, you know, let's just let's go down that rabbit hole. I mean, OK, this is like going.
00:40:45
Speaker
off on a tangent we're supposed to be talking about Martha and Unlikable Heroines but I also thought this was a really brave choice by Cecilia Grant because how many romance novels have we read where the lord hero just has a lot of money that he like made by investing in something That we're not going to
Class Themes and Historical Attitudes
00:41:06
Speaker
mention.
00:41:06
Speaker
We're not going to say what he invested in. He just like invested in some shit. And so he has enough money. Or he's a benevolent landholder. Right. Or he's a benevolent landholder. But we don't know what that looks like. And in this one, they're like, okay, are we going to enclose more land? And what does that look like? And take away the mountains. And who's it affecting? yeah And who's it affecting? And here's what it actually looks like to have. Yeah, I really liked that. I liked. I liked a lot of the farming stuff in here, but I thought it also illustrated this getting back to the Martha question. Sorry. It really ah illustrated her deep roots in the ideology of the upper class is superior and more morally upright than everybody else. But what do you like? You really liked Martha. That obviously didn't trigger for you. Well, Ingrid, how did you? yeah go ahead angry I didn't really struggle with the historical context because i don't have that problem.
00:42:00
Speaker
But i I will say this, when it came to her unlikability, I felt that the author did a clever thing that I noticed, which is that a lot of the times her unlikability was kind of highlighted. It was seen through the lens of Theo or it was in the context of there was padding.
00:42:19
Speaker
So and I mean that like this, think about the time that she was lecturing that poor person. shepherdess girl ah and she was so clumsy and theo just thought it was the most charming thing he'd ever seen watching her flounder around and try to have a conversation with someone like you could tell he just was so amused you know like he admired her effort she just was plowing right along and he was like look at her go she is just this is not her strong suit it was like seeing a spot of weakness in an otherwise impenetrable armor for him so that's why he liked it right And then in other parts, yes, she does lecture, but I've noticed, like, for example, when Mr. Atkins, the clergyman, he goes after they confront the inheritor. And when he comes back, she says, you've convinced him to go then.
00:43:04
Speaker
And he clarifies. So the way that he clarifies is much more gentle. Like in her mind, like you guys said, she's kind of like, you know, like on a train or like on cars when they have those bars on the front.
00:43:18
Speaker
so that they can just plow through things without damaging the car. That's like the human equivalent of what she is, right? Like she just goes right for what she believes is right. And it's really through the side characters, I think that softens her. So like she is assuming throughout the book that she is kind of, I think without saying so, that she is kind of unlikable. She doesn't make much of an effort to meet anybody in the neighborhood. You know, she hasn't had any callers.
00:43:43
Speaker
so the only thing she's done to withstand the unhappiness and discomfort of her life is to just do as much good as possible and that's what she's doing and so for me i would argue that she's an uncomfortable character I don't think she's an unlikable one because you can see other people like her the whole time she's having the book in fact it's almost like it doesn't even occur to her that she could be likable and the second she gives it a shot she's got all these people in her corner because it turns out people aren't stupid and they can see that like hey she might not go about it exactly the right way she's not the smoothest operator but she cares yeah ah yeah i think your point about how she doesn't think of herself as someone who is likable is really what it is yeah like there's this at the very end of the book her sister and one of her brothers comes to get her to take her to go live with them and her sister climbs out of the carriage and she runs up and hugs her sister and her sister's like whoa haven't had that experience since you were five years old like what happened to you you know and so i think that she and this is maybe me reading a lot in between the lines underneath is that she's been a very closed off person because of her childhood experiences because of like what All of the things going on. You know, she's the youngest surviving child in her family. Like, there were five dead babies that came after her.
00:45:09
Speaker
So one can assume that she did not get a lot of affection or attention from her mother, who was... kind of bad busy really and then died yeah so but also to point out like because she even says he's like oh i feel i'm sorry like you you have had a very difficult child and she was like no not really i mean i had a great governess and i had siblings who really loved me her siblings are devoted to her and very protective of her in the book yeah i mean so that's one of those things where i don't think i think the author takes care to present her as more of an uncomfortable rather than an unlikable character and to make sure that it's very clear that like she is not a
00:45:41
Speaker
poor, traumatized character who went through so much. You know, it's very much a mixed bag for her. Like she is who she is. There are some reasons that it could be related to, but all in all, like she's just, that's just who she is. And that in fact, people love her just the way that she is, even though, you know, she is kind of prickly and and pushy and and blunt. and And I think that again, when you look at the at the characters, right?
00:46:06
Speaker
Theo is presented as being a pleasure seeker, right? seeker of softness, et cetera, right? And she is presented as very much the opposite, where she avoids it because it's never done much for her, nor has it been offered, and that she has found her life satisfaction and fulfillment everything.
00:46:27
Speaker
single-mindedly driving for progress and improvement and goodness right like she she's a doer and that they influence each other right but i will say this there's nothing i hate more than characters who completely lose who they are because they fell in love or the magical joining of privates gives them a brain to explain in this case i loved that she's the same person at the end as she is in the beginning Theo learns life skills, but he still disappoints his parents in the end. He's still very much a work in progress when it comes to maturing. And he's always going to be more of the pleasure seeker of life. the the fun he's driven and he's a leader but like when he's around the kids for example on the properties he's not holding the baby and sweeping the floor he's the one teaching the kids how to fold fans and making them laugh and asking them if they've read a good novel do you know what I mean it's balance and so for once I don't think that I never thought of her as an unlikable character That's to summarize. i I actually didn't think she was unlikable. But you know what?
00:47:36
Speaker
I've also grown up with people who were unlikable heroines, perhaps a bit black. I'm naturally attracted. All of my friends, just for the record, all of the all of the women, friends and family members that I love the very best are a time tiny bit abrasive, a little bit black and white thinking when they think something is right or just, they're like, no, I'm correct. Listen to me or don't at your own peril. Like i so to me, I'm sitting here like, I don't, what's the, what is the problem here? She is literally perfect the way that she is. Who would not want her as a friend? That is how I feel. you see what Yes. High five. And I think part of that, you know, the whole scheme is her doing something that she finds kind of morally wrong and uncomfortable for her for what she thinks is the greater good and making the big sacrifice. And I think
00:48:34
Speaker
that that's really admirable. and Yeah, very much so. And it's that gray area. She chooses, actively pursues walking fearlessly into the gray area that she's most uncomfortable with. And she, it's not like she's like, nope, this is the right decision. I'm fine with it. she's constantly reassured throughout the whole process. Like, Hey, even if this is the wrong choice, like you did it for the right reasons and you would have had regret or worry. I, that no matter what you did, like you did the best you could with the information you had at the time, because she is struggling. This isn't comfortable for her at all. And, um and so like, it's not like she's just unrepentantly rigid. Like the, from the moment the book opens, she's seeking the gray area because what matters most to her is, the people who doing the count on her. yeah She cares about the right thing. Which well that's very lot character yeah yeah cause she does I does... I was thinking, as you were talking, i wanted to ask, what do you think of this admirable self-sacrifice in view of a more current take of take care of yourself and don't light yourself on fire for other people? But also, um just to... Before maybe we open that can of worms...
00:49:52
Speaker
To support Ingrid's point, I mean, we said ah early on that her reason for trying to have ah an heir is for several reasons, but also like the impetus, the primary impetus for acting is that she learns that the brother is a rapist. And she meets with the female staff of the household multiple times to be like, OK, this is what's going on.
00:50:20
Speaker
okay, I'm concerned about this now. And I wanted you to be aware. it's like, okay, this is what we need to do in order to make sure we're all safe here. All these things. And her lady's maid at one point, kind of in the middle-ish, she's like, nobody has resigned yet. i haven't heard anything. and the maid is like, everybody's waiting for you because they would rather stay with you than do anything else. And that was really cool. It's like when you show people that you care, they will show up for you Right. i mean On the other hand. that Yeah. And I think all these scenes with her with her servants kind of undermines your point about how she thinks she knows what's best for everybody because because she is so open with all of them about what's going on. and the danger they might find themselves in, and like, talks to them about, like, what are what are some solutions? What are our options? she Like, she gets some self-defense classes. that's Yeah, Rick. So I'm but not sure, like, that... That's maybe a little anachronistic, but it was fun. And it, like, allowed Theo to rise to the occasion a little bit, because...
00:51:30
Speaker
you know, as a gentleman from London, of course he knows how to write do jiu-jitsu. I liked that though. This is another thing I liked, right? So we talked about like that there were, you know, like there were historical, she she didn't shy away from historical accuracy. Like she was powerless in this situation. The only thing she could do, she couldn't stop Mr. James Russell from being a lecherous rapist if That's what he chose to do. he has the power. He has the money. He has
Safeguarding the Staff and Confronting the Brother-in-law
00:51:58
Speaker
all of it. Right. But she could prepare the servants. She could make sure that they could get out, that they had choices. And that's what she did. And ah that they had locks on their doors, locks on their doors. Like that's probably a heck of a lot better than most places would have had, you know? Yeah, it was. I thought that was really interesting.
00:52:15
Speaker
i thought that was wildly anachronistic and improbable. Well, OK, so wildly anachronistic. Should we talk about the confrontation scene? Yeah, let's touch on it. I think because I think it does matter. Because the entire time i was reading, I was like, I don't really see how she's going to be able to resolve this. Well, this person who is black and white and rigid and prides herself on nothing higher than duty has gone and gotten herself in a position where there's no choice that she makes is going to turn out okay.
00:52:43
Speaker
Really? So like, how does how does that, how does that resolve itself? And is it satisfying? That's the good question. Right. So for listeners, something that's hanging over the whole book is Mr. James Russell, the rapist brother, is threatening to come to the house to make sure that she's not cheating him out of his inheritance. Right. And her solicitor puts him off, puts him off for most of the book. And he arrives at the very end with his wife and children. And she's like, oh shit, I'm not just hurting him. I'm hurting his children. Yeah, his kids. Yeah. His kids who have done nothing wrong. And-
00:53:20
Speaker
It's so anticlimactic when he arrives because he's not scary. He's just like a petty little man. And he's totally mediocre. But at this point, through Theo's interventions, um she has developed a lot of social capital in the neighborhood. And she basically gets all of her friends to come over and they all confront him and are like, so we know that you a nasty rapist. Yeah.
00:53:51
Speaker
And if you move here, we will not know you. if Yeah. Like basic your lawyer's going to quit. Your clergyman's going to quit. Yeah. And no one's going to receive you or your family. Right. and then he's like, well, whatever.
00:54:06
Speaker
You can't hurt me. And then one of the women who he raped, who is one of Theo's laborers, is also there. And she's like, yeah. And also I'm going to murder you in your sleep.
00:54:18
Speaker
P.S. And he's just like, ah And everybody's like, yeah, we we would support that. Yeah. So in terms of, you know, a moral writing of the universe, it's very satisfying, but it also feels... Wildly improbable. Wildly improbable.
00:54:37
Speaker
One could wish that mediocre ah entitled serial rapists would... were at minimum socially ostracized, if not other things. And like a lot of this book is about morality and what's the moral choice and what's the right choice. And so much of it is rooted in the time period that this scene, which felt very rooted in now and wish fulfillment of now, that it stood out.
00:55:09
Speaker
Mm-hmm. i I don't know. Do you have anything to add to the work that it's doing? or Oh, the work that it's doing. if it succeeds. Yeah, what do you I don't think it succeeded. I mean, it didn't succeed for me. This is where the book lost me, honestly. the fight The fighting lessons, I was like, what? And then even the stuff they're talking about before that, where she's like, if he does anything, you should fight him. You can hit him. and it's like, just so completely abdicating the legal...
00:55:46
Speaker
and power structures of the period i was like history what but the accuracy you can't have that here guys i'm sorry i hate to burst your bubbles but no you know why the author the author set it up in such a way that you you can't if you did it historically accurately you wouldn't have a book yeah there would be no plot because which is a pro you why yeah i don't think can't do that the best ever But okay. And it's fiction. So there's that too. But the point is that like, in order for this to feel satisfying, she can't leave the property and just be like, well, I hope it works out for you. Because the thing is this, even if she they had said like, well, you know, he's not going to stay here. but what He could always just change his mind. you know what i mean? Like, it's one of those things where there is no real safe outcome.
00:56:32
Speaker
And so like, you have to kind of suspend your disbelief. And I think that you guys with your history, your joyful grasp of history, got a little lulled into comfort thinking that this was going to be more historically accurate than it ended up being. But I'm here to tell you that nobody would want to read that book.
00:56:51
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it did sorry provide a thematically coherent solution to the problem of Mr. James Russell, right? And it provided a solution to the problem of their happily ever after as well, right? Yeah. Because if she gets married within her mourning period, that's also grounds for social ostracism. So if they have a good support system in place...
00:57:15
Speaker
It's the only way. They have a lot. Yeah. I feel that plot wise, it really does get kind of backed into a corner because I was sitting the whole time thinking there's just no way there's, you shoot there's no, there's not going to be like a completely happily ever after here. And I i think that's accurate. It's not like she's going to be welcomed with open arms. It's not like Theo's dad was like, son, I'm so proud of you for the work that you did. We'll love your future wife. Well, he is. He's like, I'm so proud of you and you're doing a great job and you don't have to be exiled anymore. And then he's like, wait, what?
00:57:46
Speaker
What now the hell did you just do? Yeah. What i mean did you do? Yeah. That's again, we got some gray area here. So anyway, yeah, it was one of those things where I was like, yes, but on the flip side, this is kind of the only way it could have ended.
00:57:58
Speaker
Yeah. Because otherwise, like what? They were going have to raise this kid not knowing that his dad was really his dad. Right. Yeah. That was be heartbreaking. I mean, it just it was going to have to be a big hot mess. the The happily ever after isn't that it all works out in the end. The happily ever after is, is that they find each other and commit to each other knowing that it's going to be a bit of a mess.
00:58:19
Speaker
But they get to be honest about it. They are doing it as honestly as they can. Yeah. Knowing that there will be a fallout and accepting it. Fine. That's totally fine. They're fine with it. hmm. He's even like when his dad is like saying unkind things about her and his dad's like, what, you know, like you're defending her whatever He's like, no, I'm not. I'm just saying you're going love her so much soon that you're gonna regret saying anything unkind about her because she's that awesome of a person. Like that's real character growth. Remember what we talked about like with romance, right? They have to grow separately and they have to grow together. Everything else is like ah background noise. And these two grow substantially together. It's very well yeah executed and separately. It's very well executed. Yeah. Well, that's what I said at the beginning. It's really well executed. But then the probability that like it's she'd only known those neighbors that she befriended for less than a month.
00:59:05
Speaker
And she gets them to buck social convention yeah and sit in a room with laborers because they all believe in like moral correctness instead of boys will be boys. It was very it was like, OK. She connected with the other widow, though. The widows, it part of the reason they back her up isn't because she's made the connection. It's because she is crafting connections that already existed within the community. The woman who was previously who had been raped and, you know, was cast off. She already had connections with the house and with the community, right?
00:59:42
Speaker
So it's not like they're just coming to Martha's rescue. They're also coming to the rescue of someone. It's not just for her. It's also for the women that he wronged. do you know what i mean? Well, and it's also for their idea of what a proper community looks like. Because the connection that she builds with the widows when they come to visit her is... they're having this conversation. They're just gossiping about who is not behaving in a morally upright way, who is leading that nice girl on and he better propose or back off, you know, like they are, have already shown themselves to be arbiters of moral rectitude in the community. Now, I'm not trying to say, Erin, that you not believing it is wrong because it does strain. It's valid. But, but I said this yeah earlier, this, that the idea is that we have to write the universe. That's part of romance is not just the HEA, but that we're going to see justice done more broadly as part of the HEA. Right.
01:00:49
Speaker
But generic verisimilitude has to be in place in order to make that functional. And so like i get it, what you're saying. But in the case of What's Her Face, the laborer, like she has, so sure, she has connections in the community, but she has avoided people for 16 years since she got fired for getting pregnant. So are you telling me that these morally upright women in the community aren't going be like, well, she got herself in that position And that is why she is now being punished, because that is what strains cedulity. Not like the fact that Martha can make connections. I'm not disputing that. that they've been trying. It's not like she disappeared. There's a part in there where one of them says, I i would see her on the road and I would want to smile at her and say hello. And like she would just look straight ahead. But wouldn't. Yeah. Right. But so here's here's the point going to make on this. I, again, I agree with Holly Aaron. I think you're correct that you're not wrong. This is what i I would offer though. The author does leave enough contextual evidence to explain why all those people show up in the room.
01:01:54
Speaker
It's just that it's subtle, it's undercurrents, it's stuff like that, because that's just more appropriate for the time and for the situation. So there is kind of like It's not that there's no evidence. It doesn't come out of nowhere. I would argue that there is contextual evidence that supports why everyone shows up. It's just that it's not enough for you. i see i mean okay yeah It's not that it's not enough for me. It's that it doesn't make sense anymore. if you actually consider moral structures of the period. But yeah again, you're in different places. read it You're in a literary place and I'm in a, yeah. It's not textbook. In order for people to buy novels, they have to believe the fundamentals. Right. But not everyone is a history reader. So i one a really good thing to point out might be this book really strains the bounds of believability for readers who have good discretion with historical context. This will be difficult for historical readers, which would be out of the park. Yes, you won't like this if you like things to be really accurate. Right. Which is so interesting because so much of the other stuff in the book is so grounded in history in ways that so many historical romances are
Engaging Farming and Land Management Depictions
01:03:07
Speaker
not. Which is why I think maybe, and Erin, you tell me if you think I'm right. I think for some readers who go into the book thinking like, wow, this author really nailed this historical accuracy. Like she didn't shy away from like the more unpleasant aspects of land ownership and all this stuff, right?
01:03:22
Speaker
And then for it, because all the stuff Erin's been referring to about being like, what the heck? This isn't believable. All of it happens just for reference in the last quarter of the book, essentially. Right. So I would feel if I were sitting there being like, check, check, check, she's doing it. This is cool. All right. We got a historically accurate create book and then just like goes off the rails. I'd be like, as a reader, I feel betrayed.
01:03:45
Speaker
You tricked me. i mean I don't feel comfortable with this. You made me uncomfortable with this terrible sex for three quarters book. And you just switch the discomfort from terrible sex to terrible horror historical accuracy. And that's how I would feel if I were a historical reader. You know, I think that's where I came. Yeah. yeah Thank you.
01:04:01
Speaker
Yeah, because, you know, if this were like wallpaper romance, where we you knew that it wasn't historically accurate, you'd be like, okay, I guess this is what we're doing. Right? Yeah. Wild choice, but all right. Yeah, it's for the betrayal.
01:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, we're basically at time. So I want to wrap it up. But I do want to say about the farming. I never thought that I would read a historical romance that had so much farming in it and where I was like, oh, yeah, tell me more about this farming. know. I really liked that part. I really liked that.
01:04:36
Speaker
Yeah. And they like get into a lot of the details and like what's going on with the, how we, we structure things and investing. Yeah. And so amazing. And it was so interesting because the last historical romance I read before this was Anna Maria and the Fox by Liana de la Rosa, which has so much cool historical stuff. It's like politics and like international relations and like France invading Mexico and like the international slave trade. And there's all this cool history stuff that I was like, I'm going to Google this. I'm going to Google this. I'm going to Google this. But it was like so underdeveloped and boring, you know? yeah, Like taking something that seems like it's going to be really boring, like starting a dairy and making it interesting. Yeah. Versus taking something that should be really interesting, like war and governments in exile and making it boring. That was like quite the contrast. Yeah. Quite the contrast there. Absolutely. Absolutely.
01:05:37
Speaker
No, I mean, I don't think we can dispute that Cecilia Grant is a talented writer. Oh, my gosh. I mean, really, like I said, her execution was, I mean, they they thought through everything. It was just thought through everything and didn't go didn't beat you over the head with it. Even I was like, ah, this is just the right balance of historical context. I can stomach this. This is fine. You know, like it was totally great. And it was i agree with you, Holly. I was like. yes a dairy oh but wait what are they gonna do nobody can afford to buy oh yeah send it to brighton like i was just like this is the best you know it was really good yeah yeah yeah yeah i just wish homegirl had had like oh just a little bit better sex all right so did our discussion make you like the book more
01:06:20
Speaker
I think it definitely solidified for me that, I mean, it's a very well-written book. It's very good. And I do think that discomfort is important and serves a purpose, but physically i just, it was so uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't, it didn't re relent. It was so much of the book. So it was challenging, but it was good. It was good. I'm glad that I read it. Is that fair assessment? I'm glad I read it That's fair.
01:06:45
Speaker
Overall answer to your question, Holly, is no, but I do think that it softened some of my opinions, especially with respect to the unlikable heroin components. But I just don't think I can't really recover from the climactic scene at the table with the brother-in-law. And just the emotional toll of the bad sex was a lot. But the ending, like, oh, my God. Yeah. I was like, oh, my God. The very end when they work it out. Like, you know, they work it out.
01:07:21
Speaker
It's down to, like, the last page. Yeah. yeah And it is so good. Yeah. So good. And I think that's not just me. No, I really liked that. Yeah. the That last scene is just really spectacular.
01:07:35
Speaker
but Anyway, that's Lady Awakened. So show notes can be found at smutreport.com slash podcast. If you have strong feelings about a Lady Awakened or our discussion of it, drop us a line there or on the socials. i manage our Blue Sky account, which is at smutreport.com on Blue Sky.
01:07:57
Speaker
and we'll actually respond to you if you talk about stuff. If you post on our Instagram or our threads, we may respond to you, but no promises. But those are also at Smart Report on those platforms. And next month's book club, we're taking a month off because it's summertime. So our next podcast episode will be next month's book club, which will be led by Erin. Yes. Our next book club book will be Erin's still reading down her TBR. And so we're going to read Iron and Velvet by Alexis Hall.
01:08:30
Speaker
which is the first Kate Kane paranormal investigator book. oh So I am, yes, very curious. It's sapphic question mark, but it is, I mean, it is, but I don't know how much romance-y it's going to be. So I am curious to read it and discuss with you. And it's the first book in a series all about Kate Kane. So more curiosity, right? Like, is it going to be a slow burn or are we going to get something in this first book? I don't know. We will find out.
01:08:56
Speaker
I'm excited. Yeah. Yes. So it's Iron and Velvet by Alexis Hall. Paranormal mystery-ish book. Because obviously we can't do the same thing.
01:09:07
Speaker
Let's try. We got to do something. have lots of books on my TBR. We could try anything. I'm gay. Luckily, Erin's not making us read Omegaverse next month. True. See, I am nice sometimes. Yeah. All right, guys. Thanks for tuning in. And I hope you enjoyed our discussion. And I hope you keep it smutty all day, every day this summer.
01:09:30
Speaker
Yes, all day, every day. Definitely. Keep it smutty, folks. Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. Smut report!