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TSR Book Club: Iron & Velvet by Alexis Hall
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Transcript
Introduction & Lighthearted Banter
00:00:00
Speaker
looks lipstick is red as sun yeah when i slip no dress that went up to there i had no idea you had such depth it's really just because it's fun to talk like that i don't have a lot of experience with it in fact i think the only experience that i have is like who's that one with the purple gloves and the red dress oh jessica rabbit yeah are you talking about jessica yeah it's pretty much jessica rabbit yeah So I just, I don't have a lot of experience with it, to be honest with you. na
00:00:31
Speaker
That's my report.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Smart Report podcast. Welcome back to the Smart Report podcast. We've been on vacation, so we're pretending we're ready to be back from our vacation. And ah we're back on book club for the month of July. so I will be your host. It was my book this month. and I am Erin and I am of course here with my Equally as thrilled to be here co-hosts... Ingrid! And
Book Club Introduction: 'Iron and Velvet'
00:01:03
Speaker
Holly.
00:01:03
Speaker
So this month, we are talking about Iron and Velvet by Alexis Hall. This is part of the Kate Kane Paranormal Investigator series that Hall put out. It's a really early publication from him, so well before the Boyfriend material. Why? Because it was on my TBR for a really long time, and Holly and Ingrid were like, yeah, that sounds like an okay thing to read. ha ha!
00:01:27
Speaker
That's as deep as it Basically, that's as deep as we always get. This is a sapphic mystery romance kind of situation. So you're dealing with a series featuring one person, multiple
Publishing History and Availability Issues
00:01:41
Speaker
books. We can tell you how this book turned out, but the rest of the books are TBD. Presumably, it'll be one couple throughout the whole thing. None of that endgame switcheroo business. I'm assuming from Karina Press, but I could be surprised. I can do a follow-up because I'm already like very curious to know what happens next.
00:01:59
Speaker
ah Maximum drama, maximum self-sabotage. Yeah. um Another note about this series though, is that the first three books were published by Riptide and the fourth book Hall self-published. And there was a fifth book planned, but the the rights reverted to Hall. So it is currently only available in audiobook unless you can find it at your library. And I think he pulled also the fourth book. um And so I think he is eventually planning on re-releasing them. So, but this series is a little bit in limbo right now. That's true. Availability wise.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting choice. I did say at the end of last podcast, I wasn't sure if we were going to have some kind of closure, clear romance in this book or not. Yeah. But we can talk about how this jives with mystery romances, because that's basically what it is. All right. So, Ingrid, why don't you start our summary of this book with the heat factor?
Noir Style and Romantic Tension
00:02:57
Speaker
Heat factor. Erin, I'm glad you asked. And first of all, I don't know why we're not talking like detectives from a noir movie for this podcast. I feel like that's the flavor.
00:03:06
Speaker
That's true. I mean, it you know how in these noir things, nobody can really care too much about anything. You know what I mean? So the heat factor in this one is no one can really care too much about anything, but also it's on the mind buzzing around at all times as well. So there's kind of a low grade thirst at all times, but really only two, you know, main events.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, pretty accurate. The low grade fever is really just what it is. i mean, it's almost like near constant little intrusive thoughts. And it's not just about the one person. It's kind of all the time about anyone or anything all the time. It's very much like in the noir like detective films where the detective is sitting there and somebody comes in and somehow the commentary always gets compared to something sexy like that. It's kind of just all the time.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That brings us to the character chemistry. I'm not sure there's much chemistry to speak of in this book. It was very, i mean, Ingrid described some of the heat voucher, the low grade fever or whatever kind of word you want to use to describe it, where Kate is constantly aware of the sex appeal of everyone around her, but especially all the women around her.
00:04:19
Speaker
And the love interest is Julian Saint-Germain, who is a motherfucking vampire prince. And they sort of orbit each other. or They come together and go apart, but there's not a lot of on-page development for them to have emotional chemistry.
00:04:37
Speaker
We've got that noir element we've kind of been hinting at, we can talk about more, that is Kate's emotional withdrawal from everyone else. Julian, obviously, also she's like an 800-year-old vampire or whatever, so she's, everybody's a blip on her radar, unless they're relevant enough to talk to. and So it's mostly that they're hot for each other and therefore we're in a relationship now than anything else. Right. Yeah. It's like all of a sudden they're girlfriends. Yeah. so Where Kate was like, wait, what? That wasn't a one night stand. Okay. I guess I'm going to go save my girlfriend. It's like, what?
00:05:15
Speaker
no So yeah, it was interesting. I think Ingrid wants to talk about how that plays into like how this feels as a romance, but let's talk about the
Plot and Genre Elements
00:05:24
Speaker
plot first. Yeah, so the plot is basically Kate's a private investigator and a dame comes in with a case, as one does in no noir, and the murder uncovers a conspiracy much larger than Kate initially thinks, also in classic noir fashion.
00:05:45
Speaker
basically yeah and then she runs around attempting to solve it i'm just kidding and just getting into and causing a ton of trouble just causing a ton of trouble right i mean but this is all you know it's like you dig into it and then you uncover all these like political factions and all this turbulent underneath stuff and as you try to solve the case you unearth things that just cause more problems right
Book Critique and Enjoyment
00:06:10
Speaker
Yeah. So what'd you guys think?
00:06:11
Speaker
I had so much fun with it. was like, this is peak Alexis Hall. It's like, there's a voice that he'll do. And I'm like, this is, he's there. It's just a different vibe. But also it was interesting. I mean, I'm on a one couple mystery kind of kick. So it was kind of fun to do with a sapphic version instead of the MM version for the, you know, 12th time. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was like, i I want to know what other shenanigans come up and stuff. But I i saw there are going to be some cliffhanger bits, I think, going down the series. So we'll see where we end up at the end of book four. now
00:06:51
Speaker
But I liked it. I had fun with it. I thought it i thought Alexis Hall did a good job. ah I think he does a good job of leaning into what he's trying to do. Right. So he's like, we're going to do a noir thing. So that's what he did. And he has that really snarky voice that I find extremely entertaining. It is entertaining.
00:07:13
Speaker
Plus, it was just so many characters. I was like, this is chaos. And there were a lot of great one-liners and a couple bits that I was like, I see what you did there. And I appreciated it from you.
00:07:24
Speaker
So my overall is I really struggled with the first half. I thought the second half is much better. But the first half is a lot of setup and a lot of characters. And I'm just like, where are we going?
00:07:39
Speaker
It's like watching the fucking Maltese Falcon, which is ah the most boring movie ever made. Like, come at me film bros. I don't even care. But then the second half, some of the stakes become more clear and the characters are established and the plot kind of comes together and starts moving into one cohesive direction and does get better. So I suspect that subsequent books would be more fun because you don't have to do the like 150 pages of world building first. Hopefully, hopefully. um But I do agree with Aaron that the voice was was very fun.
00:08:16
Speaker
I also have had a difficult time slogging through. i described it but as it's kind of like a film noir, but it has some fever dream going on. Because sometimes I would find myself in different scenes being like, okay, this is, I'm getting tired. Like, it's hard for me to hang on here. And then randomly, like, somebody gets chucked out of a window or like.
00:08:36
Speaker
Or like somebody just turns into a swarm of rats. Right. And you're just like, what? And I think the apathy in the book really kind of lulls you into a false sense of like boredom and comfort. And then out of nowhere, where you're just like, what the heck just happened? So I found it very difficult to hold on, you know, and then I'd be like, what just I don't even understand what this character is anymore. i had a really hard time keeping track of like, okay, that's the werewolf love interest. This is the vampire love interest. It took a while for it
Humor and Parody Elements
00:09:05
Speaker
to gel. And on the one hand, i I really appreciate that because there's one thing I'm getting really tired of and that's authors who feel like they have to just like,
00:09:12
Speaker
hold your hand and hand you Cheerios throughout the whole plot. And you're like, I'm a full grown adult. I can handle this. Like, you don't need to like baby me through this. You don't have to explain everything to me. This one, however, I was like, you can explain a little bit. You can just, just a little bit.
00:09:26
Speaker
You can give me like, give me a trail here to follow. So I did find it a little bit disorienting, but it was, I just, I thought it was fun. Cause like Holly said, it was just like, the capers the one-liners that it was fun it was fun i had mixed mixed it i think it's a slow start but then it seems like it starts to cook so yeah i can't disagree with the slow start either i mean i had fun with it i also mostly listened to it i toggled back and forth to my ebook oh god i don't know highlight stuff yeah but you know i can power through a lot if i'm just like okay this is what i'm listening to while i'm cooking right
00:10:01
Speaker
ah So can we talk about the no noir stuff first? Yes. Okay, so I just want to say, like, I don't know a lot about noir. I've watched some noir films, some, but like not a ton, and have a general sense of what the beats are. But honestly, it feels like a noir pastiche, right? It's like so over the top. Yeah.
00:10:26
Speaker
And like the very opening is, you know, I woke to the taste of stale whiskey and the smell of stale cigarettes. It's just like, okay, this is what you're doing. And here's what it reminded me of. It reminded me of the Tracer Bullet comics within Calvin and Hobbes. Do you guys remember those?
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Okay. So for those of you who are youths, Calvin and Hobbes was a newspaper comic strip that ran in the 80s and early 90s. And it's about a boy who imagines lots of stuff.
00:11:03
Speaker
And his tiger. One of the recurring bits is he imagines himself as a private detective. And like the first line in one of those is, I've got eight slugs in me, one's lead and the rest are bourbon. The drink pats a wallop and I pack a revolver. And I'm just like, okay, that like that line could be in this book.
00:11:27
Speaker
Right? Yeah. So the whole time I'm like, okay, Alexis Hall, I know you're not writing a comic strip for the Sunday paper, but that's the only thing I can think of the whole whole time. So that's my very helpful, here's my noir association for you guys. You're welcome.
00:11:47
Speaker
sir Yeah, that's so funny. I don't even have that. just have like the, I guess similar, like primarily, I'm sure I watched a couple movies when I was young and especially in my like black and white movies, like and 50 movies fix.
00:12:02
Speaker
But yeah I think it's mostly from other media playing on noir than actually personal familiarity. Caricature, caricaturation. Yes.
00:12:14
Speaker
I will say this. My favorite line, it was at the end of one of the earlier chapters, and it was the scene where she's trying to map out what she thinks happened. I'm going do it in the voice. do in the voice? won't do it in the voice. Yes, do it in the voice. I laid out a mind map of the case with the contents of my drinks cabinet. Vermouth for Julian, tequila for Tara, tonic water for Andrew, poor bastard.
00:12:36
Speaker
Goldschlager for Kauri. I wasn't sure how Nim fit into this yet, but I poured myself a shot of Dram Bui to represent her. I spent half an hour moving everything about until I realized I was sitting in front of a table of empty bottles with no idea what any of it meant. That's basically. You see what I mean? Like, yeah I read that and I was, because at first when I was reading it, I'll be honest with you, the first little bit here, I was like, oh, am I going to like this? Because I thought to myself like, oh, it just feels so, it's so strongly like film noir type thing. But then you read that and I was like, okay, this author knows what they're doing.
00:13:07
Speaker
You know? Yeah. He knows how to play. I mean, I was talking to my husband about
Character Depth and Dynamics
00:13:11
Speaker
it too. And i was like, it is, there were times I laughed out loud because because of the one-liners, but also just some of the situational stuff. It's like, this is, it's an alcoholic detective who is constantly broke. And so has to take the case And is immediately in over her head Like she's yes mortal most We'll call her mostly mortal And she's running around With all these Vampires and werewolves And witch queens And incubuses And fairy kings And demons Like I don't even know All the monsters And you know everybody's just like What are you doing? This is too dangerous for you
00:13:52
Speaker
She's both not drunk enough and too drunk for everything all of the time. Yes, that's it. Perfect. Yeah. And i also thought what I thought was interesting was that like Aaron was saying the situational humor to it. There's one part that it really did make me laugh because it's it was so subtle. It wasn't like in your face. kate leaves with this vampire to go and chase down this other vampire who won't talk to her and she's like are we gonna walk and he's like yeah and she's like we could take the bus and he's like i don't like buses and she's like we could take this and he keeps shooting down everything that she wants to do so like he's like no we're walking well he's a vampire and he's walking he can walk very fast and she's like wheezing to keep up but it's it's subtle because this is from kate's perspective and she's not gonna like admit you And then they walk like six miles across town. Yeah, it's like all the way across town. And then on top of it, they take the stairs to go up, right? So they get all the way up there and there's this like shoot him up stuff. And then and then the vampire chucks the other vampire out the window and then jumps out the window after him. This is like in a tall, tall building. And then Kate's like, has to run down the stairs. 26th floors, I think, yeah.
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah. But like, the whole thing is described, like, she's not really complaining. It's just being like, kind of like, gently mentioned that all this walking is happening. And then at the end, like, when they part ways, she's like, I'm taking a cab. I can't do any more of this. Like, it's so funny. because it's not in your face. Like you you're aware in the background that this is a lot of walking and like she's mentioning how much walking and then like up all the 26 fights of stairs and down 26 fights of stairs.
00:15:24
Speaker
So it's like that kind of humor because it's apathetic. And this is the thing that so matches the character because it is like everything is understated. and But when it's juxtaposed against the sheer extraness, I made up that word, of this book, like all of the monsters. So like it's the apathy and the like...
00:15:43
Speaker
too drunk to give a damn combined with the sheer absurdity of everything else. And that's why it works to me Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Because you'd have to have a complete personality transplant for this character to have a romance that you want to root for otherwise. you know what I mean? Yeah, she's not a particularly likable character. no that's the thing. Yeah. And a noir hero isn't really likable either, right? They're messy and uncaring and...
00:16:10
Speaker
Right, but she's not also she's not actively terrible either. like I think apathy is a good word because it not only describes her, but I feel like it also describes reader reaction to her. like right Right. Because I'm not, I like i didn't hate her. I didn't feel any strong feelings toward her besides... It's just like, poor Kate. Yeah. And she has some hidden depths, right? It starts out, we never get a great, really clear explanation. Like Ingrid was saying earlier, there is not spoon feeding happening in this book. But almost immediately, we understand that her partner died and she feels responsible for her that and that upsets her. Like, it's not overt. She's not like, I'm just wallowing in misery. But she's saying these little things that's like, I feel bad about yeah Archer dying and like her ex left her No, it's like she is wallowing in misery, but she's never going to say it.
00:17:07
Speaker
Yes. Right. It's just we see that she's wallowing in misery and the way she's doing this self-destructive drinking and beating herself up and and and. Well, and that's the other thing is that none of the characters are likable. So we were talking about the character list. So there's Kate, who we've all already established the reasons why.
Supernatural Elements and Romance
00:17:26
Speaker
she's tough and it feels like kate is drunk the whole time too just fyi from that that pov is one of the ways you can tell that she's not with it and then there's julian who is also not super right well you know julian's the primary love interest and isn't you know is the vampire is an 800 year old vampire who hires kate to solve this first mystery well and the thing about julian also is she's not just an 800 year old vampire she's the prince of cups Which is like the highest ranking vampire who is the pleasure vampire, right? like they're In London. Presumably there are vampire conclaves in other places. I suppose that's true. We're only talking about London in this case. that's But there are four princes and they all have different, you know, zones. And hers is the pleasure zone. So it's, there's a club and that's, we're still in the noir. She has a club and there's debauchery happening. Yeah.
00:18:22
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Classic femme fatale. Except for, I really liked the scene where she was waiting. She's like, in Kate's apartment and Kate is like you need to fuck right off and Jillian was like oh man I really fucked this up and then she waits like all night at the bar for Kate she's like I got you a drink but I think it's warm now like six hours later so even she has roundness to her but yes there's a lot of just like the reason i said early on she's a motherfucking vampire princess because she throws her weight around and she's like obviously i'm the shit obviously this is about me or obviously she's kind of a yeah kind of a big deal i think a lot of the characters in this book are kind of a big deal though because we end up with It's not just vampires. We've got werewolves and we've got witches and like Holly was saying, we've got fairies, fae. Fae and demons.
00:19:15
Speaker
Right. black or all And then there's a little bit of love triangulation because the witch queen of London, Nim, is Kate's ex. So there's like that. And then the alpha werewolf of the London pack, Tara, is also into Kate, at least sexually. maybe Maybe not for, like, relationship purposes, but definitely flirty, definitely shows her interest a lot. I mean, so there's Julia in the Femme Fatale, but then there's all these other supernatural Femme Fatales who are also, like, gunning for Kate the whole time. Yeah.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. Should we talk about this as like how it works as a romance crossover or doesn't? That's a good transition because especially in view of our heat factor and character chemistry, I mean, there's on page sex. So heat factor is what it is. And honestly, there doesn't have to be sex for us to be like, oh, hey, it's a romance novel. But if you combine that with the character chemistry, which I said is kind of like superficial, They connect with each other. But by the end of this book, and Hall is very famous for HFNs over HEAs, right? Like he almost never will do an epilogue. The resolution of ah um a lot of the books that I've read by him are the characters agreeing to give their relationship a real go as opposed to being together forever. I think there's foundation for them to be together forever. After all the stuff they've gone through. But we haven't spent the time that we've spent in say. Well Lady Awakened. Where they are connecting emotionally. And deeply. And making a good foundation. I guess. It's it's not that romance. So what do you guys think of that?
00:20:58
Speaker
Yeah I mean like I said. I think the thing about the noir private eye thing. Is that again. like Because of the drowning sorrows. And the. apathy, it it wouldn't be... I don't think that it's satisfying when someone has like a total personality transplant, right? So I think this kind of works because the author is...
00:21:19
Speaker
but um because if it were set up where like oh I have all this apathy but now I've simultaneously solved this murder and met this person and now I'm a completely different person who's engaged with life and committed to my you know career and blah blah blah blah blah like it would not be the same so like the fact that all of these characters are kind of like ah ah you know it works because they're like ah i think I'm gonna give it a go with you we'll see what happens I'm a disaster you're a disaster let's give it a try toots you know what i mean like that's kind of the vibe that is the vibe that's true it is romantic it's just romantic in this context you couldn't put it up next to for example the bride by Julie Garwood and be like they're they're not the same same
00:22:04
Speaker
ah Yeah. you know what I mean? These are not the same. Yeah, like you're not going to have that sweeping satisfaction. You're going to be like, oh, that's nice. Yeah. Well, I mean, for me, the point of this story is not the romance.
00:22:16
Speaker
I guess. I don't know. It kind of is because the culmination of the plot, ah spar sorry, spoilers, is Kate going to rescue Julianne. That right I was just going to say, right you think she would have done it even if she says, I've got to rescue my girlfriend, but do you think she would have just let it go? Honestly? that Well, that's the thing. is like I guess we could argue it's a romance because it pulls it pulls her out of her apathy and she gathers her her mediocre seven together. That's so funny. um goes to rescue her girlfriend. And so it's like that extra oomph of, oh, I do care about this person. It pulls me out of my apathy and that's what it is.
00:22:59
Speaker
But you're right. I wonder if Nim, the witch queen, her ex, had been kidnapped instead, if she would have gathered the band together and been like,
00:23:10
Speaker
no, we still have to rescue this person because it's my fault they were taken, even though it's not her fault, because I know how to save this person and I'm pulling out of my apathy anyway. I guess that's a hypothetical that we can't answer, right? Well, that's not entirely true. There are, so I think there are some contextual clues that it seems like one thing that Kate does really well is she reads situations to determine the minimum amount of work that That she can do. And she weighs it against how much she'll have to interact with people to do it. do you know what i mean? So like, for example, if she can make a quick phone call to warn someone like, hey, yeah, sorry, I just sticked all the werewolves on you. She'll do that. Right. Don't I mean, if it's easier and she won't have to engage with as many people if she just goes and does something herself like under on the sly and she does that.
00:23:57
Speaker
Right. But she does. there yeah There are if you look at her track record of like trying to save people throughout the book, because this Julian is not the only person she decides she wants to try to help her save. We know that that's happened a couple other times, but it doesn't have the same. She doesn't put herself on the line.
00:24:14
Speaker
Right. She's trying to figure out like the minimum amount. So like I'm trying to think of this, the one example when she's trying to track someone down and she has to use some of her gifts or whatever. And, you know, it's always kind of like grumble, grumble. Now I've got to go do this. But like sometimes she'll say like, I'm the only one who can do this. Or like, this is the only option I've got, so I'm going to do it. but like Right.
00:24:34
Speaker
Do you see what I'm saying? Like there's always that calculation of like, ah, what's the minimum, what's the lowest commitment here I can make to get this done? Or what's the most tolerable way of handling this? And when she is staging the rescue op for Julian, she's not working in minimums anymore. She's saying, I am going to get the team together that I can get and I'm going to talk to all these people who are terrible and I don't like and I'm going to make sacrifices like You know, she binds herself to the witch queen in order to get a magic sword. And she gets help from the werewolves, even though she doesn't really want to. And she gets help from the other vampires. And she just like builds a whole team. And it's not she's not doing the minimum anymore.
00:25:23
Speaker
She's like, no, i have to do enough to make sure that this succeeds. And I will make sacrifices of myself in order to make this happen. It's just, I think it just looks different because in order for the character to not have a brain transplant, like she still has to be kind of sassy and apathetic. She's still sassy about it.
00:25:41
Speaker
and and And she's probably apathetic about other stuff. Just she's not apathetic about Julian. Yeah. right Even that she's still, you know, they have their little moment at the end, but it's, she's still reserved. It's not all in.
00:25:55
Speaker
It's like, all right, we did it. Let's go to bed. kind of a thing more so than we did it I love you forever yeah you know and what am I moving in I think that also supports the noir like you wouldn't expect a hot mess PI to maintain a long-term and healthy relationship anyway right because that's not a character that would be reliable in that context and so I think going forward there's still grounds for her to maintain this sort of noir story plus apathetic characterization because she's such a hot mess. Right. Anyway. So, well, okay, did it succeed reboot?
00:26:38
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think this is a question of what do you mean when, what do we mean when we ask that question? Did my heart grow pitter-pat? Never. Right. Did I believe that maybe these two were going to be able to work out something in the future?
00:26:54
Speaker
Maybe. yeah So. and it's the first in a series. And it's the first in a series. Well, I think you kind of, the other thing is we can always bring it back to our definition, which is like, did the characters grow separately and together in order to achieve their goals? Right. It seems like in this one, the reason that there's some gray area, the reason there's some room for doubt is that the growth felt kind of minimal on, you know what I mean? Like it wasn't like there wasn't any, it just wasn't like, ta-da in your face, you know? yeah.
00:27:26
Speaker
And the other argument is, is that, like you said, when the shared goal is we want to be make a build a life together, that's a very obvious goal. In this case, the goal is let's not die and see what happens.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah, it was minimal. i agree. But i I think you guys both hit the nail on the head. if you're looking for a romance that's like one book, one sweeping romance, this is not that. If you're looking for kind of an entertaining a murder mystery with a very dialed in romance, romance right because there are romances and mysteries plenty but they might not be genre romance romances I guess and so Hall with his background here is dialed in on what a romance looks like right so then you might find it satisfying like I had a great time I don't need i think as long as I know what I'm getting into I don't need it to be heart eyes grand romance every time but I always do like a little bit of romance in my reading you know what
00:28:26
Speaker
Right.
Mystery Elements and Pop Culture References
00:28:27
Speaker
And I will say, though, for mystery readers who might be interested in this, um Hall's strength is not really in his plots. So I would not say that this is a particularly well plotted or twisty mystery.
00:28:45
Speaker
right his strength is in characterization and in voice i god um right like the voice is really good and the characterization is really well done the character work is really well done all the characters even these minor ones you get a really solid sense of who they are and they're all fun to read about yeah not and i would never i wouldn't want to meet any of them but they're all fun to read about Right? Like, yeah the werewolf who plays Polo is just like, she's fucking funny. I just... I'm just sit putting it out there.
00:29:19
Speaker
But this is not, like, a twisty mystery plot from somebody who really excels at writing Right, and also... you know Some readers, I have a friend who is all mysteries all the time and really prefers mysteries where the clues are all present so that you could figure it out at the end. And that is also not possible with this because you are not dealing with 100% of the information right until you get to the information. And that plays into something else that I and want to talk about. We talked about his voice a fair bit. One thing that Hall also... loves to do is like pop culture references. It's like very literarily minded or ah art minded, I guess, even like because they'll do music references to I was like, how do you keep all this in your brain all the time to just be able to be like, you know what i'm going to plug in here This. So this book includes all of that plus the integration of these different mythologies as we're dealing with. I got some Oak King, Holly King vibes. We got the Fae. We got vampires. We got werewolves. There's a little subversion.
00:30:29
Speaker
i mean, Julian is a prince and a woman. Tara is the alpha werewolf. And we learn that full werewolves and alphas are always women. So not like huge, but just like we're just playing with things here. Hall ends up plugging in all of these different...
00:30:47
Speaker
like folklore elements and how do they play together and play into his strengths of characterization and voice I guess or how did he use them to advantage to make this fever dream that was so entertaining yeah so I feel like this was this for me was the most fun thing about it is you know it's noir but it's paranormal and it's all the paranormal and plus he's throwing all these extra monsters in like for example there is a minor secondary character who's like he's like an informant basically who is the multitude and the multitude is like all the rats who live in london and sometimes form into humans who that was so cool walk around i'm like and framing cool but
00:31:38
Speaker
ah yeah ah Right? That was one of parts where I was like, did I fall asleep while I was reading? Like, I was reading and I was like, everything makes sense. Everything makes sense. Everything makes sense. What just happened? You're like, okay, he's going to see his informant. He brings him donuts. They're chatting. They're chanting. And then the informant turns into some rats. And you're just like... And I was like, wait, what? Yeah. I had to go back I was like when did this happen did we know this yeah anyway yeah it was pretty fun and like the monster and the end game monsters are super super gross just gotta say it they're like super gruesome But I thought that was fun and interesting. I mean, and Ingrid's our romantic reader, but to me, that felt, it felt kind of fresh, right? I mean, and like, obviously, lots of people do a world with all the supernatural creatures all in like competing politically and kind of vying for each other or vying for power. You know, it's like Immortals After Dark by Cressley Cole is doing kind of the same thing. Except in this case, by situating it in this noir framework, it like provided a background. I don't know where I'm going with this. Just that I thought it was fun.
00:32:57
Speaker
And I didn't necessarily think the pop culture stuff would date it. Because, i mean, so this book is, say, 10 years old, 8 years old. But there wasn't any any one particular reference that Hall made where I was like, oh, oh, that's...
00:33:14
Speaker
That's passe. Well, Hall is our age. Right. So maybe I'm just like, oh yeah. ah And the character is our age, right? The character is the right age for some, you know, she's in her mid 30s, just like we were 10 years ago. where Yeah, exactly. And this ties into a different element of voice and characterization. So Ingrid, I want to circle back to now Holly's mentioned the romantic thing. I was like, well, I know Holly's a folklore nerd. So this seems more in her wheelhouse than in Ingrid's. But the tie into how popular romantic is right now is a great question. But first, voice and characterization. Kate uses the word chick all the time.
00:33:52
Speaker
And that word does not get used anymore. And I was wondering what you guys thought of that. Like, does this language matter if you know Hall as an author or not? Because I was thinking this is just another way that he is using to characterize Kate. using Having her use this word to describe all of these women that she's eyeing. They're all chicks. Yeah.
00:34:16
Speaker
Right. Well, and I will say this, even with using that word 10 years ago, it wasn't a cool word 10 years ago. To me, when I was reading it, it was because like Kate is not a cool person. She's not cool. you know what i mean? So like to me when I was reading it was more of like just kind of a sort of subtle context clues that Kate is not cool. You know what I mean? She's not cool. Yeah, that's basically what the gist is. When I read it, I wasn't thinking, oh gosh, that dates the book. I was thinking because even 10 years ago, chick was like a word people used when we were in middle school. That's like true. I think what I was thinking more along lines of is now more so than 10 years ago maybe. more people would find it offensive than just dated.
00:35:03
Speaker
that think depends on how you're using it. But yeah, like Kate just was using it because Kate is lazy and apathetic and just was sticking with the same entire lingo. Right, so it's a characterization thing. And I don't think you need to know how recognize that. That didn't stick out for me at all. I was just like, oh yeah, that's just how this character talks. Yeah.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Well, then Ingrid, let's go back since you are all in this
Romantic Fantasy Themes and Power Dynamics
00:35:31
Speaker
romantic thing. And apparently everyone else on TikTok is also. Sorry, guys. we Like, how do you think this could fit in for those readers? Because it is a so ah speculative fiction romance.
00:35:43
Speaker
Right. So it followed some rules. In a lot of ways, I feel like it followed a bunch of the rules of romanticcy. And in a lot of ways, I feel like it just went straight off the rails. So like, it is very common in romanticcy for there to be some kind of mystery that has to be solved. You know, usually it's like heritage or what your powers are or whatever, right? But it's very common for the solution to just kind of appear out of nowhere. Here's a magic sword.
00:36:08
Speaker
Yeah, here's a magic sword. Actually, though, I'm wondering, maybe can you speak to, though, Kate doesn't tap into her. Like, she uses her powers throughout the book, and then she can't use them when it comes to the point. What do you think? Like, where does where does that fit in? So I feel like that's a really common theme. yeah Like, having powers, like fighting against this part of yourself. I feel like it's like a really common factor. And it plays out in different ways in romanticism. So sometimes you have this power, but like, you know, they've been conditioned to think it's bad, especially if it's like dark versus light romanticism books. Do you know what I mean? And so it's kind of usually, usually that's one of the inner battles for the heroine or the hero is they have to embrace this side that they've been trying to pretend doesn't exist or trying not to use.
00:37:00
Speaker
Right. And it's really, I mean, we all know that that's going to be some kind of like elaborate, you know, metaphor for like puberty. Yeah. Except in oneself. Yeah. Who knows? It's a whole thing. But what I think is interesting in here is, right, like, it doesn't really seem like Kate ever really accepts herself. So it makes sense that it's not like. Oh, I've come to grips with my powers and we'll be using them regularly now to make the world a better place. You know what i mean? Yeah. Right. So she has she does have powers for the listeners because her mother is the embodiment of the wild hunt. So her mother is a fairy, but like, and so she has hunting powers. which is very useful as a private investigator. But when she uses them, she is kind of overtaken by bloodlust. So it is not very clear that this is ever a power that she wants to or will or should fully embrace, you know? Like, I feel like that's kind of a different vibe than what Ingrid is describing about, like, embracing your powers and finding your true self and...
00:38:07
Speaker
Well, and it's possible that later in the series that maybe Kate will learn how to use it so that she can put some guardrails on it or use it to help. but you But we just don't know that in this book, in the in the parameters of this book, that usually is something that like, it's it's a big plot point. Let's just say that. And here it didn't feel like a huge plot point.
00:38:26
Speaker
It just felt like kind of like, you know... tertiary data or I don't know what it was but it wasn't a primary thing I also think that you know romanticity in general it's fantasy plus romance right and fantasy books tend to be quests you have a quest so in this case yeah like solving the murders is technically a quest especially with all the stuff she has to go through yeah Right.
00:38:49
Speaker
So I'll say that, like, just to speed up kind of what I'm thinking here, right? So it's like fantasy, fantasy and romanticy. You have, like, quest for information. Sure, a PI situation is kind of a quest, but she doesn't seem super invested in it. Usually in romanticy, you have your band of merry comrades that you kind of dislike in the beginning, but then you become best friends forever. I don't see that she's going to be best friends with these people forever. do you know what I mean? So it's almost like it walks right up to the line of a lot of these romanticy themes, but then it's like, yeah, I'm going to pass, which tracks for this book yeah right yeah yeah even the road even the romance even if you won go to the romance it walks right up to it but then it's like i'm gonna leave you hanging that just seems yeah like i mean and you i think you really put the nail on the head there because that's like walking up to the line and saying yeah no i'm gonna pass is that is kate kane to a yeah ah to a t
00:39:39
Speaker
Yeah. So, I mean, I, that's very much how i read it. Cause it was, I have read so many books and series where it was all the monsters, politics, like clan versus clan, et cetera, and so forth. It's never like this.
00:39:52
Speaker
This was mayhem. This was something completely different. And I don't, I can't even really even now put my finger on exactly what it is, but I think that that's the closest I can get to it is that it really walks right up to it and then just kind of does whatever it wants. Yeah.
00:40:04
Speaker
Do you know what i mean? But it goes, it gets pretty close. Like you're like, okay, this could be a thing, but then it never is. So I don't know. So, I mean, it's speculative fiction. Readers, check it out. Read more.
00:40:18
Speaker
Diehard romantic-y single POV heroines journey readers. Maybe, maybe, maybe not. maybe maybe not yeah it just really depends it depends on people who like have to read if you read romance and it has to it has to follow the rules you're probably not going to like it but if you like books that kind of like play with things and they don't follow the rules a little bit sometimes if this book is really funny and I love the voice and the character you can really fall into it and just disappear but it's just gonna be a fever dream I will i will circle back once I read the other books. So you're going to do it? You're just going to binge the whole thing? i already borrowed them from my biblioteca.
00:40:55
Speaker
Excellent. yes. i I held off on starting any of them because I didn't want to... Like, get confused in our conversation. Yeah, basically. I'd be like, what's going on? slash I already know things that you guys don't know. i like oh ah So, no, I haven't started. I'll circle back for all of you to be like, hey, this is this is so whatever I found out.
00:41:12
Speaker
Part of me feels like it's going to be like an Indiana Jones situation where there's a new heroine every book. I wonder. I'm sure there won't. But I could see that working somehow. I think this triangulation that Holly was talking about between Nim and Tara and Julian could continue to play in interesting ways. Yeah. yeah So yeah I guess we'll find out. Who knows what new characters we'll meet next time.
00:41:35
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, like her assistant slash roommate is the best character, but she doesn't show up until like the last 75 pages.
00:41:46
Speaker
so Yeah, I cannot wait to read her roommate more in the next book because she it's fantastic. So, you know, more on that, listeners, in
Conclusion and Future Podcast Plans
00:41:58
Speaker
the future. Yes. I guess in summary for me, I didn't even say this in the overall, but now that we've had this conversation, i think this one really ended up being fun for me because of Hall's voice. Like, he's always fun for me because of his voice. I mean, a book can't just live on voice alone. So obviously, like the capers that he manufactured to kind of play into the plot and this voice that he developed really made for a fun time, guess especially especially once things really got going. And she was like, man, got to go prevent my girlfriend from murdering some people. That's rough for me.
00:42:36
Speaker
know I gotta to go prevent my girlfriend from murdering my ex-girlfriend. so That's a whole mood right there. Yeah, it was, I think the voice plus the capers just was really fun.
00:42:51
Speaker
I like that Hall picks a thing to do and kind of does it. So I liked the leaning into the noir in this case. I'm not super interested in reading his Moby Dick book. I think Holly did that, right? um i read the first couple chapters and then was like i want to read this book in paper so i went and bought it and then yeah started reading it so eventually yeah so let us know how that goes but like i don't think that one's for me but this is right up my alley so i had a great time and uh thanks for doing it with me so i finally read it absolutely yay yeah any final thoughts before we ask ingrid what we're reading next month i don't think so All right.
00:43:31
Speaker
Well, I guess that concludes our conversation of Iron and Velvet. If you have any thoughts about Iron and Velvet, we would love to hear them. But for next month, it's Ingrid's month. And so we will be reading.
00:43:48
Speaker
All right. Well, guys, i know you'll be thrilled to hear that we're going Not Another Vampire Book by Cassandra Gannon because I wanted to read something funny and romantic. And I'm going to give it a shot and see if this...
00:44:00
Speaker
This does it. does It does it. More specific and more vampires. It's great. We can do compare. Summer. We're just having a weird but contrast. And then am going to I'm just going to have to.
00:44:11
Speaker
I don't even know what I'm going to have to do to combat this trend. ah More history. I'm going to guess. I'm going to guess that it's going to be more historical romance. Well, that's what I But maybe me I'll surprise you and do like the most vanilla contemporary I can find. Oh, my God.
00:44:29
Speaker
All right. You're welcome. I guess we'll find out. so that's something to look forward to in August. In the meantime, we will be back to tumble reads between our book clubs now that we've taken our little summer break. And that will be just as unpredictable and tumble readsy as you've come to expect from us. So until next time, ah show notes and all of our podcasts can be found at smartreport.com slash podcast. Our socials are at smartreport or at smartreport.com on Blue Sky, which is where Holly is the most active. And we will always reply to comments on the blog or emails that we get. So if you want to chat with us, that's how to reach us. And in the meantime, until next time.
00:45:16
Speaker
Keep it smutty, folks. Na na na na