Transcript
Conor Fowler: Hello and welcome I am Connor Flower and welcome to another joyous episode of Apocalypse Duds.
Conor Fowler: Today we have in the studio someone who I was going to introduce in the style of the godfather Uh, but I thought that that would be racist and perhaps would understate even the influence of this person on me in particular, as concerns this whole clothing scene. I would like to introduce Giuseppe to more Joe.
Conor Fowler: ah Thanks for coming, ah Joe of an affordable war wardrobe blog spot, and now on the Instagram platform as well.
Joe: Well, thanks for having me.
matt: Yeah, we're yeah yeah we're we're big fans and Connor and myself have both followed you for a very long time. So, yeah.
Conor Fowler: since RSS feed I'm talking about. Like since RSS feed, I would read that shit.
matt: ha Jesus.
Joe: yeah
Conor Fowler: I'd read that shit in my like music 217 class, history of rock and roll. It was so fucking boring. And I was like, yeah, going through every single post. ah So it's really good to have you finally in our crosshairs.
matt: Yeah, yeah. how's How's your day going this Wednesday?
Joe: yeah ah So far so good. It's ah usually my day off on Wednesdays, but this is the first one in a few weeks that I've actually had the day off to just kind of hang out.
matt: Nice.
Joe: So that is good.
Conor Fowler: And so you decided to waste your time with us.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: ah Very nice, thank you.
matt: Yeah, so just to just to get started, Joe, where are you from and where are you now?
Joe: So I am from Somerville, Massachusetts, which is just outside of Boston.
matt: Oh, yeah. Somerville's great.
Joe: ah And not only am I there now, but this house is the place where I grew up.
matt: Oh, shit.
Joe: So, yeah, been here the whole time.
Conor Fowler: Oh, that's right, dude, that's so wild, Blake.
Joe: ah Yeah, my kids are now fourth generation of my family in the same place, so.
matt: that's That's awesome.
matt: Man, that's super cool.
Conor Fowler: do you have Do you have like hash marks on the wall, like height hash marks?
Joe: Oh, the place is a mess.
Conor Fowler: I feel like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Joe: every Every single thing that's happened here in the last 60 years is in the wall somewhere.
Conor Fowler: like
Conor Fowler: But that is like miraculous, I think.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Like that's really, I don't know, I guess sort of, is is it sort of a double -edged sword or bittersweet or something?
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah. but But the good outweighs the bad. We're kind of old school that way. It's an old two apartment house. And my parents live in the other apartment, which the apartment I live in was where my grandparents lived when I was a kid.
Joe: So old school Italian. We just stay here, all of us together.
matt: Yeah.
Joe: so yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah
matt: I mean, that like i've been I've spent a good bit that good bit of time in Boston and surrounding you know small suburbs, Somerville is cool, Austin, et cetera.
Joe: Mm -hmm.
matt: And it's such a unique place because that shit happens and like the arc or the housing was kind of built that way. And I i don't i don't know if I've seen that elsewhere.
Joe: Sure, sure.
Joe: Yeah, there's less and less of it these days, but um but we're...
Conor Fowler: Well, because it's not it's not about buying, right?
matt: Yeah.
Joe: ah Yeah.
Conor Fowler: If you're reusing the dwelling, like you're not buying a new one.
Joe: Yeah, and the craziest thing about it is that um when my mother was a teenager in the 60s, my grandmother bought this house literally for cash, like a suitcase full of money that she had just saved up over time, um and then like went to the bank and was like, here's $22 ,000 and bought this house.
matt: but
matt: Right, right. That's great.
Joe: So, yeah, yeah.
matt: ah Incredible. Yeah. I saw a meme yesterday that was like, if you could go back to 2001 and one what would and ah look at the housing market, what would you do? And the answer was buy a house for my lunch money.
Conor Fowler: right yeah yeah they bought my girlfriend's house for like $40 ,000 and it's like it's like ah it's like a house it's like a nice house in 92 or whatever
Joe: Buy all the houses, yeah.
matt: Right, right. Yeah, no shit. ah
Joe: Yeah.
matt: ah Yeah, yeah, for real. So ah how like how long have you been into clothing? Is this something you've been into you know since you were a kid? or
Joe: i Yeah, ever since I was a kid. um And I don't really know where it came from, but I can remember like I used to watch a lot of old movies when I was a kid, like like old black and white movies, stuff like that.
Conor Fowler: Mm -hmm.
matt: Oh yeah, definitely.
Joe: My grandfather my one grandfather was a tailor.
matt: Ooh.
Joe: and um
Conor Fowler: Oh, I see. yeah that's said That's crazy.
Joe: Yeah, and my and my grandmother on the other side, she actually used to work in a clothing factory a million years ago when she worked. um And I remember when um when she, this was well before I was like, you know, when I was a kid or whatever, when she retired, they gave her um her sewing machine from the factory that she worked in.
Conor Fowler: ah
matt: Oh, that's incredible.
Joe: So yeah, so when I was growing up down in the basement, she had one of those like um professional grade singer machines built into the table that had like the big rack on top for all the schools of thread and like the yardstick painted right on the front and everything.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Joe: um And she would like, you know, when we were kids like we'd buy pants for our school uniforms and she'd hem them if they were too long and she'd like crochet of sweaters and all this kind of stuff, you know.
matt: Right.
Joe: um So I was I guess always kind of a little bit around it or this kind of like appreciation for it in that way.
matt: yeah
Joe: um
Conor Fowler: Not a lot of people have Taylor taylor relatives even. I'm like...
Joe: Yeah, yeah. my my My grandfather was like, he died when I was real young. I was only like eight or nine when he passed away.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: But he was like, like you know, if you look at pictures of my dad and my uncle when they were teenagers, um you know, like my dad is wearing a tweed suit in his yearbook picture from high school that my grandfather made for him, you know.
matt: Oh, no, that's incredible.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: the tuxedo that he got married and like like legitimately like made from scratch kind of level of of of thing, you know? So maybe it's in the blood a little bit or whatever.
matt: Right, right.
Joe: um Yeah, but yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, but that's amazing. that's like There are so many different answers to that question that we get. you know like um I think a significant number of people would say like movies or old movies, what have you, but that's ah that's like, ah you kind of came to it honestly.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. And the funny thing was after you know after he was gone, um when I started to get into it a little more seriously, when I was when i was like 12 or 14 or whatever, um I remember asking my dad if he had any of his old stuff, right? And my dad being like, I have some of it, but you can't wear it. And I was like, why not? He's like, because your grandfather was like five foot one.
Joe: yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: right right
Joe: and And in my mind, he wasn't because I was a kid when he died. So he was just like a grownup, right?
matt: Yeah, totally.
Joe: And I'll never forget, I went up in the attic and we had some of his old stuff and there was like some suits. and I put the pants on, and I was only 12 years old at the time, and I put on a pair of pants and they fit me in the waist, but barely came past my knee.
Joe: And I was like, oh, so he was like a little roly poly Italian guy, like freaky tall, you know?
Conor Fowler: no
matt: Oh, that's...
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's.
matt: That's killer.
Joe: Yeah, and in my mind, i don't I don't see him that way, so my dad was like, I'd give it all to you, but there's no one's ever gonna be able to wear this stuff ever again, so.
matt: Right, right. but the
Conor Fowler: Did you, did you wear uniform?
Joe: Yeah, all through elementary school, yeah.
Conor Fowler: I figured, do you think that that had like some, I don't know, influence on you in terms of at least like comfortability wearing that kind of clothing?
Joe: Yeah, I find that among the friends that I have that also went to school in those days wearing uniforms, um all the guys I know who grew up that way are incredibly comfortable putting on a suit to go to a thing.
matt: yeah
Joe: You know, and I know other people who that complain and it's, how can you wear that? And it's so constricting or whatever. um But I think for those of us who started young, we're just like, I don't know, it's in a church, you put a tie on.
Conor Fowler: Then it doesn't fail.
Joe: yeah Just do it, what's the problem, you know?
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Conor Fowler: Sorry man, I know you were.
matt: Oh, I was just gonna, just out of curiosity, where was your grandfather's shop?
Joe: So he actually, um he used to just kind of make clothes himself for a like people.
matt: Okay.
Joe: And he also worked, when my when my dad was younger, he he worked in a factory. His job was actually working in a factory that made police uniforms.
matt: oh OK.
Joe: like in the days when the cops were wearing like double breasted brass buttons all the way down the front, you know what I mean?
Conor Fowler: yeah before
matt: Right, right, yeah.
Joe: um He was like so in those coats in in a factory in Boston back when Boston had a little district in town that had that kind of stuff, you know?
Conor Fowler: the tactical there's a place in Baltimore called the cop shop which is like where all of the like they buy all of their whatever surveillance gear and shit
matt: Yeah, that's cool. I mean, there's.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Joe: And then when he was older, he was um he worked in it as like the in -house alterations guy at a couple of men's stores around, so, yeah.
matt: Oh, that's cool. I mean, Massachusetts has, you know, a very long history of ah clothing and footwear production.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: ah Rest in peace, Southwick, ah sadly.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, of course, right?
matt: but Right.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's like more than, more than probably anywhere else, but New York, right? I mean, I guess there's garment production in Los Angeles, but it's like, I don't know, sort of new school garment production, right?
Joe: Yeah, probably, yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's not the same type of, uh, it's not the same type of prestige or like heritage or what have you.
Joe: No, it's not like, you know, like Southwick or the Alden factory or, you know, even the LL Bean Boots or anything like that that's just got like so, so old school and so ah kind of distinctly American too, you know?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: A pillar of Americana. Yeah.
matt: Right. Totally.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: Totally. Did, did you see, you know, obviously you said you were, you, you know, you've been interested in, in how clothes look for the majority of her life.
matt: Like, are there any, um, you know, any people that stand out that you were kind of like, Oh, like I want to emulate this person from back in the day.
Joe: i like Like when I was really young, it's like it's like the the same old answer from a lot of people, but those old movies, um Fred Astaire was like God, because not only were his clothes really nice, but he would wear them in like weird, rule -breaky kind of ways that I thought was really cool.
matt: right
Conor Fowler: Mhm.
matt: Right.
Joe: you know um But like I've been kind of always been kind of fluid with it too. you know it's like that There was a time where like Joe Strummer was also a god of like how to dress yourself to me.
matt: Right. Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Mhm.
Joe: Among that world. um And sort of other things too. I've gone through phases over my life. but Fred was probably the first one, you know, I don't dance I've never He always had really good shoes that that was like a big part of it too, so yeah Yeah Of course, yeah
matt: Yeah.
matt: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shoes, I feel like are one of those things across the board that just like, if you're, if you're into clothing and, and, you know, kind of nerd out the way that we all do, like shoes are super important. It doesn't matter what kind of shoe, you know, be it a Converse Chuck Taylor or an Air Jordan or, you know, a long wing, like,
matt: that's That's the first thing I always notice about anyone.
Joe: yeah it's what yeah and i mean it was you know i can remember being a kid and like trying to dress uh
matt: For for for better or worse, sadly.
Joe: in that real kind of 1930s way um in whatever sort of slanted version of it I was putting together as a kid.
Joe: you know um I was also lucky because back then, it's a little less so now, but there were a lot of thrift stores around in Boston.
matt: Right, right.
matt: Yeah.
Joe: And at the time, you know it was it was long enough ago that like most people's dads had been wearing suits to work for many many years so you'd walk in a thrift store and you could just find that stuff all over the place like a dime a dozen you know um and it was boston so there was brooks brothers all over the place and like old stuff from jay press and like it was nothing you know um and i didn't realize it at the time how how spoiled i was but like
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Yeah.
Joe: You know, you could just yeah you could walk into the Salvation Army and I could buy suits like that for five bucks or something, you know?
matt: Oh, totally, totally.
Joe: Yeah, and then go home and wear them and they wouldn't fit and I wouldn't know what kind of things to put with them. But I thought it was all perfect in my head and whatever.
matt: Of course, of course.
Joe: um Yeah, but in reality, I was just like the weird kid from up the street who didn't play sports and had spend was instead was spending all his time on that stuff.
matt: Yeah. do you but Do you remember some of the first stuff that you thrifted?
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: ah I remember, so there's a store in Cambridge called Keyser's. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of it.
Conor Fowler: I have none.
Joe: Keyser's has been open for over a hundred years, like since the 19th century.
matt: Oh, wow.
Joe: Yeah, and it used to be, um it's sort of like right near Harvard. So its history is that um guys going to Harvard used to sell their old stuff to Keesers.
Conor Fowler: Right. right
Joe: And it's always been like this secondhand clothing store, but from way before that was a thing, right?
matt: Right, right.
Joe: um And that was like the money place, right? There would be Goodwill and Salvation Army and whatever, but Keesers would be like, If I wanted to save some money and go buy something, I would go there. you know um And when I was maybe 14, I remember I saved for weeks until I had $45. And I went to Kieser's and I bought this gray double -breasted suit for 45 bucks and like would just wear the thing until it fell apart. you know
Joe: um
Conor Fowler: yeah.
Joe: Yeah, I bought, um you know, I bought a, um it's funny, i just I just recently got a, one of those big, full -cut raglan sleeve coats from the 60s that everybody loves nowadays.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's right. right
Joe: And it took me like three years to find it, but I had one that I bought at Keyser's that was made out of Harris Tweed that weighed like 400 pounds that i that i that I had to save $25 to go buy.
matt: right yeah
Joe: you know ah Hold on just a sec, someone's ringing my doorbell.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, you're good.
matt: No worries.
matt: Pause it.
Conor Fowler: No, you're good. We paused it. If you got a jet, that's fine. I mean, we're like.
Joe: No, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. Just one of the kids came home earlier than I expected, so.
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, well, it could have been worse.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: ah It's like you could have been on the phone with, I don't know, the Soviets.
matt: ah
Joe: Would that really have been worse though?
Conor Fowler: I don't know. that Yeah, no, not so well, not worse than this.
matt: Yeah, true.
Conor Fowler: And we are a little Soviet in a way.
Joe: Hmm.
matt: True, true.
Conor Fowler: So we haven't asked this question yet, but we do ask this question to everyone. I think it's a sort of specific formation. What is your first memory of clothing? Do you have something that really stands out to you?
Conor Fowler: Like ah going really back, I mean, something that you thought like, oh my God, I have to have that aside from the gray double breasted.
Joe: ah
Joe: so So I don't specifically remember this from when I was a kid, but A few years ago, i was in ah I was in a thrift store with my wife and I found a pair of these really nice Tony Llama cowboy boots, right?
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah. yeah
Joe: And we had split up in the store and she was looking at the women's stuff and I was over there and she came and found me in the shoes and I had them on and I was checking them out and she was like, you're not serious. And I was like, I'm as surprised as you are, but I think I am, you know?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: And we had to talk i was like and they were $12 and I was all about it. And then I bought them and um they instantly became like the favorite shoes.
Joe: I would wear them all the time. Since then I've bought a million more pairs. I wear them at work. They're good for my back. Everything about them is great, you know? But I was like never a cowboy boot guy before that, right?
matt: Right, right.
Joe: So I had them on one day right after I bought them and I was up in my parents' apartment and I had them on with I think like a turtleneck and a tweed jacket and a pair of jeans, right? And my dad's like, wait here! And he goes and he gets this photo album and he takes out this picture of me and I'm like seven years old and I'm wearing exactly the same outfit, right?
Conor Fowler: la
Joe: And I had no memory of it and he goes he goes, you got it in your head about these boots and you like wouldn't shut up about it until your mother and I took you somewhere to buy them. And then he said, he took me to buy them and they were gonna get some like kid boots but I insisted that they be real ones.
Joe: Like I didn't want like the like cheapo toy cowboy boots, they had to be.
matt: Right.
Joe: And um so I guess that happened when I was like seven years old. old
Conor Fowler: That's amazing, that's like, a
Joe: i don't remember it, but I was like I suppose no one's surprised by this but Yeah Yeah
Conor Fowler: cause I just bought a pair and my students who are in West Baltimore were like, why are you wearing cowboy boots? To which I said, because I thought it would be funny. And so they asked me, is this lizard?
Conor Fowler: Is this like a snake? What is this? And yes, in fact, it is lizard. And so one of them, I had a pimp pimples on my neck, and my student said, did you get bitten by a snake?
Joe: but but
Conor Fowler: So I find them really, really, really controversial.
Joe: No, they're great. I mean, like I said, i'm i'm ah I'm a Boston guy, lifelong Boston guy in the same house. I have no business wearing that stuff either, but I love them.
Conor Fowler: They're awesome, though. I like didn't really believe the hype, but like my dad swore by them.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: war He wore them with a suit every day.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: They're nice. They're comfortable. They are well thought out.
Joe: They certainly are, yes. And I spend at my job, I'm on my feet like all day and it makes a huge difference because they're designed well for that, you know.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Joe: um Plus the kids at work laugh because the place where I work has um concrete floors um and I'm one of the managers and they're like you're they're like, the good thing is we can always hear you coming.
Joe: I'm like, well, what are you doing that you need to hear me coming before I get there?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Right, that's awesome.
Joe: yeah
matt: Yeah, so we're we we briefly got into you know your your blog days. um what What kind of inspired your you know your initial um posting on BOGspot and and things that you continue to do to this day?
Joe: So the original one had a little bit of ah a little bit of snark to its start, because I don't know if you guys remember, there was there was a blog back then called A Suitable Wardrobe, right?
matt: Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember.
Joe: um Yeah, and in those days, I remember like the the sartorialist, like the original wave sartorialist was a big thing. And I would look at that all the time. And then this this suitable wardrobe guy popped up.
Joe: and don't get me wrong he's got really nice stuff you know it's all very expensive it's all handmade but it used to bug the hell out of me that that that the the tone because back then it was more about writing you know now it's all like you know photos and like little 15 second tiktok style videos or whatever um
matt: Yeah, totally. Right.
Joe: But at the time, it was it was writing, maybe be accompanied by a few photos, right? um And it used to drive me nuts that the tone of this guy's writing um was all, ah it had this vibe where a like, yeah a gentleman dresses like this, and everyone else is a muck savage down in in in the swamp, or you know what I mean?
Conor Fowler: right right and it's like ah well and you wouldn't be getting your winter suit in any less time than nine months i mean yeah yeah
Joe: or Yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: Right. all of that right and it was called a suitable wardrobe and i was like would to suggest that anything else would be less suitable so that's where the name came from i was just like i'm gonna do what this guy's doing but my whole thing is gonna be like you can't believe how cheap this was it like like yeah
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: No, dude, and that's the fucking shot. That's like the entire point. And there's like cooking and there's like creative writing. ah You're kind of like triangulating as you're going, like to figure out what you're going to make of this thing.
Conor Fowler: When at the time, people are not really doing this. This is like ah blogging in its infancy.
Joe: I guess, you know, and it wasn't even, it wasn't even like intentional in that way. But, but I guess in the back of my head, the thing about it was um I wasn't seeing anything in not even just about clothing, but anything that suggested that you could be like a cultivated person with like really good taste.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: um and not be a bazillionaire too.
matt: right right
Joe: and And that the two things didn't have to be mutually exclusive, you know?
Conor Fowler: All right. Right.
Joe: um Just that it took more effort on your part if you didn't have mountains of money to just throw at it, you know? um And in the end, um I think what I learned through it and through writing it, what I hope I transferred to some other folks that might have read it, was that um you almost have to be better at it if you don't have money.
matt: Right, right.
Joe: You know what I mean?
matt: yeah yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: To really know what you're doing because it's easy if you're you know if if if you live that lifestyle and you can go to whatever great restaurant any night.
Joe: You can order a $400 bottle of wine off the list.
Conor Fowler: You don't have to learn how to cook.
Joe: You can have all your clothes made and like you know go to the trunk show. and what Of course, everything's gonna be nice and wonderful. and you know um But if you have to um Find your way to something like that when the options that are being given to you handily are garbage, you know um That it it's almost like ah more intentional under those circumstances, you know Yeah, and it was just fun fun writing about it.
matt: Right, right.
matt: Yeah. it Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I think it's just wonderful.
Joe: Yeah
Conor Fowler: Like that was not a common ideology. That was like, I don't know. I feel like there was so much talking about like consumption.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And that was always the main point was like, right.
Joe: Luxury brands, all that stuff. You know, fancy sneakers, no matter what like realm you're in.
Conor Fowler: You wrote a haiku.
Joe: Yeah. and um Yeah, it was just, I started doing it and it kind of stuck with it. It was fun after a while, you know. ah But the thing too is I feel like, you know, thrifting is just like the most mainstream thing in the world nowadays.
matt: Right, right.
Joe: But it it but it wasn't back then. it it It just was not, you know.
Conor Fowler: No, it was like look down on Yeah
Joe: ah you know Yeah, like kids would not want to wear stuff to school that their mom found at the thrift store because that was like crappy, you know?
matt: Yeah.
Joe: I was into it because I just I always like old things so I would go to thrift stores because the stuff there would be old and I didn't really care about the stuff that was going on in the moment as much.
Joe: Um, and in fact, it's almost like when I, when I stopped it, uh, years ago, it was because it had become so mainstream that it had kind of lost some of the charm.
Joe: You know what I mean?
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah.
Joe: Like it was just, it wasn't a such a special thing. And it was just, it was, you know, in a complaint, but it was just like, it had become a thing that people do, which was fine, but I didn't feel like, uh,
matt: Right. Right.
Joe: You know, the the the need to sort of write about it in the way that I was had kind of slipped away at that point, you know?
matt: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: I feel like you have pivoted, you know, especially coming back to Instagram, like I love the the little reels and things that you do that you're like, Oh, you know, these, this sweater was 699 blah, blah, blah.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Mm -hmm.
matt: You know, like, yeah, that I feel like that kind of. has the same, in my opinion, has the same kind of like vibe and feel to it that you had back then, even though it's not long -form riding.
Conor Fowler: yeah it's translated pretty well because it's like about like the thrift of it but it's also about like the sort of diy nature of your approach to it's seemingly everything like i'm pretty sure it was you who said that buying this type of stuff like gives you access to the american dream maybe
Joe: Hmm.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, you know, and it's like, I remember in the in the early days, it was almost like ah ah thrown around as an insult to be like aspirational or whatever, you know.
Conor Fowler: me Right.
Joe: um And then, you know, God, and then and then as the as the early blog thing happens and like the trad guys and the eye gents, um
matt: I did for the worst.
Joe: That became crazy because then they were like, you know, it was unacceptable to wear polo because that was like the aspirational nonsense. And I was just like, I don't care, man. It's, you know, it's got a button down collar, bow tied stuff is nice.
Joe: You know what I mean? Like when I was a kid, polo was like the fancy stuff from the mall. Like everybody wanted it.
matt: Right.
Joe: You know what I mean? Like I was into that too.
matt: Yeah, totally.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's like it becomes like a racially or class coded like fuck off, which is like bad politics.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, and I mean, you know, I did grow up in Boston. So like, I get like, I know about those like old money. I know the difference between the people who have the old money and the people who don't.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Oh yeah.
Joe: It's been like present in the city that I grew up in, in ah in in a way that's realer than it is in a lot of other places in the country. You know what I mean? i Harvard University is around the corner from where I live.
matt: Totally.
Joe: I know, I get it. You know what I mean?
matt: Yeah.
Joe: like
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: and And even Harvard's different now, but that you know, you you can tell if you, you know, and it's not like, um you know, that I was wanted to be those guys or whatever.
Joe: It's just like, you know, they had nice clothes, they eat well, whatever.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's just nice stuff, right?
Joe: I like the stuff.
Conor Fowler: It's like practical, it's nice.
Joe: You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.
Conor Fowler: I think that people have talked about like the like economical aspect of this style of dressing like wearing a jacket like this you only need to have like two shirts really and a couple of ties and you're fine so they say right right exactly but the point is it's an easy to follow formula
Joe: Yeah. Right. And it never works out that way. It's the exact opposite, you know? um
Joe: Yeah, exactly. and and And then once you've got the the sort of basic tenets of it nailed down, you can do all sorts of wild stuff with it, depending on your own personal inclinations or whatever, you know?
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's very like Venn diagram sort of.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, I'm also fortunate enough to have, um along the way, developed a friendship with Charlie Davidson from the Andover Shop, too.
matt: Oh nice, yeah.
Joe: um you know ah yeah he and i He and I became friends for a few years before he passed away, too. And and his that's like all part of that world, but a completely different thing than some of this other stuff, too.
Joe: you know um
Conor Fowler: How do you mean?
Joe: and it
Conor Fowler: I mean, it's like a different, it's like a different, uh, industry.
Joe: how
Conor Fowler: Right?
Joe: Well, I i mean, it it was it was different with him in that, like, you know, by way of example, you know, we had it's gone now, but there was an old Brooks Brothers store in Boston.
Conor Fowler: Like.
Joe: Right. And if I'm not mistaken, it was the second location of Perks Brothers after Madison Avenue in New York.
Conor Fowler: Mm -hmm.
Joe: So we had that, right? um J Press, in the old days when J Press was only three stores, one of them was in Cambridge, you know? um And then there was the, and those are kind of like stalwarts of a certain thing.
Joe: um And then there was the Andover Shop, which sort of got looped into that, but there was it's different. Andover Shop had like a sort of a i ah style and, for lack of a better term, a zestiness about it that the others didn't. you know um it was It's hard to put into words. you know because if I don't know if you had ever been in the old Andover Shop, but it was very much like just what you'd think it was you know it was like stuffed to the gills it had thick carpet on the floor that one whole wall was just rolls of tweed fabric um but it just felt different you know what i mean um they yeah yeah
Conor Fowler: yeah it's well that's like when i mean it's a different like It's sort of more hands -on, like I haven't been there, but I do think I can picture it, right? And it seems more ah blue collar, if that's possible.
Joe: I don't even know if that's the thing. it's That's not even the right word. It's just that the guys that shopped there shopped there because the other stores weren't quite doing it for them.
matt: right right
Joe: And the differences are subtle, but they're definitely there. Do you know what I mean? like um You know, for example, going back to all the nonsense with the eye gents and everything, right?
matt: blue
Joe: um All those guys who would die before they would put on a pair of pleated pants, right? You'd go into the Andover shop and they didn't sell flat front pants.
Joe: They only sold pleated pants for a time, you know?
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, so that's like the Uber trad.
matt: Right, yeah.
Joe: Deep forward pleated pants with a button -down collar shirt. You know what I mean? Like all these like rules that you were you were supposed to follow and they were never applicable there. Do you know what I mean?
Conor Fowler: Mm -hmm.
Joe: And I'd be like, well this guy is like the king -held guy of them all and he's not doing any of that stuff that you guys are getting so wound up about. so You know, um it's I hesitate to use the word fearlessness, but there was just this like, I'm gonna do it because it's cool, and I'm gonna be like the king of this stuff, but I'm not gonna follow any of the rules that the other people are beholden to.
matt: Right, right.
Joe: You know, that was what was so great about that place, and you couldn't deny it, so.
matt: Yeah, for for me, you know, just I've never been to the Andover shop or O 'Connell's, but those two shops are like, you know, they're they're both legendary because they they kind of like, I don't know, they kind of gave a finger to the more like stuffy Jay Presses and Brooks Brothers of the world.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: Like I've never been in a Brooks Brothers and had an enjoy ah an enjoyable shopping experience, but like
Joe: right right there's a reason why all the jazz musicians bought their clothes from charlie instead of jay press which is literally a block away in those days you know yeah in a weird way yeah
matt: Right, right, exactly.
matt: Yeah, yeah it's it's almost like a punk rock, like, suiting store in a lot of ways. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's, a I don't, I swear there's a word for this, but I can't reach it at the moment. I don't want to put you on the spot. I wanted to ask about Ivy style, or at least your, ah if you have a little like, not like a little definition, but like, what do you think about Ivy style becoming, I don't know, ascendant again, or like, has it ever really left?
Joe: Mmhmm.
Joe: I mean, that that's a tough question to answer, again, because because of where I am. it's like It never went away in Boston.
Conor Fowler: Right. And then it's never left.
Joe: um and And what's weird about it is, again, with all these rules and all this stuff that you're supposed to know and whatever, is that my experience of it had always been like,
matt: I'm going to do it.
Joe: Again, like I said, there are those old types that grew up this way Sailing and going to golf courses and all this stuff right and I did not at all um but this in but Regardless of that like when I was a kid like if if you had to go To something dressy, you know the mom that's how the moms would dress the kids in Boston you know what I mean like if if it was like um
matt: Right.
Joe: you know if you had to go to someone's wedding your mom would go buy you khaki pants and a navy blue blazer and a pair of penny loafers and a striped tie because that was just like what the nice clothes looked like around here so the weird thing about it to me is like it's um
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: no one thought twice about it for all those years when i was growing up that's just like what the nice that's just well yeah i mean it you know the school uniforms kind of hue to that formula everything um and you know i i feel like part of it is um
Conor Fowler: Because bizarrely, it's the uniform, right? It's the Boston uniform.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: that it's a sort of it's a set of loose rules that you can learn as a child that don't have to change your whole life.
Conor Fowler: Mm hmm.
Joe: you know So I think that's why it kind of comes and goes and never goes away and why it sort of always looks good because the intention of it always was just like, just know about these things and you'll be all set forever.
matt: Right.
Joe: You know what I mean?
matt: I mean, and it's in its own way, too, like Ivy style, trad, whatever the fuck you want to call it, it is a uniform in a lot of ways.
Joe: and
Joe: Yeah, for sure.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: You know, think about the the man in the gray flannel suit and that kind of shit from back in the day, like that.
Conor Fowler: One too, like it's military.
matt: that Yeah, yeah. I mean, ah a lot of I feel like probably a lot of those businessmen in the heyday of, you know, mid -century had done some time in the military, and you know like or they went to a school that had a uniform, so it was like you were almost predisposed to so enjoy it.
Joe: Yeah, and and and it's and it's um it's a particular style that suits almost everybody.
matt: Right, yeah, totally, totally.
Joe: Skinny guys, fat guys, tall guys, short. If you put it on, it it's it's fine. You know what I mean?
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: and And there's not a lot of things that you can say that about.
matt: well
Joe: you know
matt: Yeah, yeah, like a shot perfecto doesn't look good on everyone.
Joe: so
Joe: No, of course not.
matt: But ah ah a blazer or a sport coat and a pair of well -fitted trousers, you know once you figure out how bad held that you know style works for your body and like what you need to alter, et cetera, like it it just looks, for lack of a better word, timeless.
Joe: you know
matt: And I hate that fucking phrase, but it's cut it's very true.
Joe: Yeah, no, of course, you know? Yeah, and then all you know all these people who still sort of like get a charge out of ragging on Polo and Ralph Lauren, I'm like, the reason that guy is as successful as he was is that, is because he's dealing in that um in a very distinct way that's got some more flash to it than like the real old school stuff, but that's why it works, that's why people like it, you know?
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: I remember hearing people shitting on Ralph like, I don't know, I'd say years ago. But like, at this point, it's like, I don't know, I feel like almost everyone is like, happy to wear it, frankly.
Conor Fowler: And like, yeah, yeah.
Joe: Oh no, now it's like the hottest thing.
matt: ah
Joe: You know why? This is actually, um I saw you interviewed John Tinsett a while back, so I know him well.
matt: Yeah, but wait, are you friends are you friends with John?
Conor Fowler: guys
Joe: Yes, yes. and One thing he said to me that I'll never forget is we were talking about thrift stores and he said the thing about the thrift stores is the best stuff that you can find in the thrift stores is always from about 30 years previous, right?
matt: Right.
Joe: So like when I was a kid, it was awesome because there was all these clothes from the 60s and the thrift stores, you know what I mean?
matt: Right.
Joe: um And then there was a rough period where there was nothing because the the sort of casual Friday era had caught up to that, you know?
matt: yeah
Joe: um But now everything from 30 years ago is like polo in the 90s when it was like, and it's like raging best.
matt: Yeah.
Joe: so So that's why it's the hot thing because there's a lot of it around from like a lot of the good stuff from back then, you know, and it was a mass production brand.
matt: Oh, 100%. All right.
Joe: So there's a ton of it, but even still it was good, you know?
matt: Yeah, hey and and a lot.
Conor Fowler: It's egalitarian, as we had discussed, like...
Joe: Yeah. Yeah.
matt: Like I don't think people realize too, a lot of them like most sought after Volvo, especially the like more streetwear oriented ship, like Snow Beach or stadium stuff that sold so badly in store that it all went to outlets.
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
matt: And so, yeah.
Joe: Yeah, which is why it's so hard to find now because everybody wasn't wearing it when it was new, you know?
matt: Right.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Joe: But that whole thing, it would just kill me. I'd be like, since since when is like, um why is aspiration cast in a negative light? Like why, you know,
Conor Fowler: because it's try Because it's try hard, right? It's like you can't be aspiring to do something and be cool if you are a white guy, I would say.
Joe: Yeah, but it's probably like the it's it's probably not the right word for it though. Do you know what I mean?
Conor Fowler: No, it's not the right word for it, but it is like people, ah it's like striving, you know?
Joe: um Yeah Right,
Conor Fowler: People are like, people don't like that, even if it's even if it's fine. Even if you want to become an astronaut, you know, people don't like that.
Joe: right know And I think maybe people are over that a little bit now but that that did crack me up because I mean not to sound like the old guy about it, but like ah with with With with all the old polo stuff being all the thing right now And it's I had my moment of being like yeah, I always knew that was the good stuff back when you all were shitting on it You know what?
Conor Fowler: Definitely.
matt: yeah
Joe: I mean like I was all about the forward pleated pants I used to have to I don't know if you guys remember but um actually, um Zach DeLuca, who's also a good friend of mine.
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: Back in those days, we used to um we would post stuff whenever we had outfits that had pleated pants on them. um The tagline at the end of the write -up would be, brought to you by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Pleads.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Joe: And I just be like, you know, and and I remember being like, you know, I'm kind of a bigger dude. These pants fit me better. You know, like it's okay. No one's going to die here.
matt: Yeah, yeah, totally.
Conor Fowler: My most, my most interacted with Instagram thing ever was asking on former guest of the show, Cleo's post, are those forward policing your pants? Are you just happy to see me?
Joe: Yeah. yes
matt: Nice.
Conor Fowler: Haha.
matt: Ha ha.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I like that one. I like that one. I'm still getting likes from that joke.
matt: Yeah. Nah, it's good on you, Connor.
Conor Fowler: Haha.
Joe: But, you know, it it it it comes and it goes.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I gotta do something.
Joe: And, um you know, I think that that the takeaway from all of that is, um you know, you get informed from a lot of ah a lot of sources and a lot of outside influences, right?
matt: Totally.
Joe: um But the moment is the moment that you're looking for is when that all gels, like all those bits gel for you in whatever way they do, you know?
matt: total
Conor Fowler: Right.
Joe: um And so to to hue to one thing or the other with like a razor sharp line kind of doesn't make any sense, you know?
matt: Totally.
Joe: Because that's not you, you've learned that thing, you know? But like, you know, and there's, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, its it I think a ah big thing about you know having a borderline obsessive interest in clothing is that like you can take from all of the influences and and mix it together in your own way.
matt: you know Yeah, oh, it's 100%.
Joe: And if you don't, you'll get bored. That's the thing. I feel like people that are into this, it's like, and you know, who who who really has to wear a suit to work anymore?
Joe: You know, very very few people.
matt: yeah
Joe: um And for the most part, they're they're very high end jobs, right?
matt: Yeah.
Joe: So I feel like we've come to a point in history where like, if you to some degree, if you're going to do this at all, it's just because you're enjoying it.
matt: Yeah.
Joe: right it's because you want to um so just do what you want to you know what i mean like play around with it have some more fun with it um yeah yeah i mean i work
matt: Right.
matt: Yeah, the fun is the key is the most is the best part about
Conor Fowler: That's why I bought the cowboy boots. I mean...
Joe: I mean, I could literally go to my job in the same pair of jeans and the same sweatshirt every day and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to to the performance of my job, nor would anyone, I would say nor would anyone even notice, except people would notice because it was me doing it and all of a sudden they'd think something was wrong.
matt: Right.
matt: Yeah, right, right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Joe: But like, you know, my point being like, I could survive with two pairs of pants and a couple of sweatshirts just fine. you know Anyone could. um When you don't, it's it's a choice.
Joe: um And it's a fun choice, you know?
Conor Fowler: It's creative expression, I think.
Joe: So, exactly.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: You know, it's like the first creative act of my day is like, what am I gonna wear?
matt: Yeah.
Joe: Sure.
matt: I mean, I think this is a point that Derek Guy makes often. it's like um you know there's you got to have You have to have fun with what you're doing and like you have to care ah and appreciate the like artistic nature of putting a a fit together.
Joe: Of course, yeah. You know, and I mean, nowadays it's like, you gotta, I don't want to get all political about it, but it's like, it any any any little joy you can have in your life that's not harming others, I see no reason not to indulge in it to the fullest, you know?
matt: Get political.
matt: Same here, 100 % agree.
Joe: Because there's a lot of crap around to that to that that's not bringing people a lot of joy right now. So, you know, find it where you can, right?
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: But even that is kind of like you were talking about earlier that like push and pull between having a specific label for every type of outfit as is popular in some circles on the internet and like just not talking about it at all.
Joe: Mm -hmm Yeah
Conor Fowler: You know, it's like, there's a there's a gray area there that I think it would be good for people to become more comfortable with, I guess.
Joe: e Yeah, and some of it comes with, you know, the the the wisdom of age, for lack of a better term. I mean, I was as guilty as anybody in the old days about but getting incensed because I saw some college kid wear a pajama pants at the liquor store or something like that.
Joe: You know what I mean? And like, and it's so disrespectful and blah, blah, blah.
matt: right right yeah but yeah there's there's a lot of a lot of things that piss me off all the fucking time is what what someone else is wearing is really not one of
Joe: And I don't care anymore. You know what I mean? It really does not matter, you know? ah Yeah.
Joe: yeah that yeah because you're right yeah that's probably yeah yeah there there are moments yeah yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I just can't imagine getting pissed about it anymore. like
matt: Yeah, the only time I get, the only time I get pissed is when someone's wearing like quote unquote performance shit at the grocery store and I can smell them from 10 feet away because they just left the gym or the golf course or whatever.
Conor Fowler: Nazi regalia, also not also a no -no.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Any, yeah, well, I'm just, I'm talking about normal ass people, not, not fucking racist bit like assholes.
Conor Fowler: Any type of regalia, we don't want it.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: So, uh,
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: So yeah this is a ah something I feel like is kind of at the core of of our show is the connection between like subculture and clothing.
matt: um It seemingly, especially Taylor clothing. You mentioned Joe's Drummer and I kind of, I've always kind of picked up on the vibe that you're probably like in the punk or something back in the day.
Joe: Oh, for sure. I i played in bands for years.
matt: Especially being in Boston.
Joe: I was big into it, especially after high school. I was big, big into that stuff.
matt: That's awesome.
Joe: I still am, always will be, but I mean, um you know it it predates ah widespread internet use. So there are much less photographs of it, but I was all about sewn tight pants and studded belts and big boots and crazy haircuts and all that stuff for a long time.
matt: Yeah.
matt: Totally.
Joe: you know um But it's like you said, it's the same at its core, it's the same attitude. you know
matt: yeah definitely
Joe: um
matt: Definitely.
Joe: you know because there was a time when you know wearing a suit was was as glaring a thing as that might have been in the 1980s.
matt: Right.
Joe: um So yeah, never been one to just go along with it, I guess.
matt: Yeah.
Joe: but Yeah.
matt: Nice. Nice.
Conor Fowler: Well, and I think it's a little bit about like wearing a tie when it isn't called for is like the the rebellion, right?
matt: Yeah.
Joe: yeah
Conor Fowler: I mean, that's like, i ah you can't fire me because I quit sort of mentality.
matt: Well, I mean, even going back to like the Beatles and Stones, you know, like that, that and and earlier, like the jazz guys of the 40s and 50s, like Taylor clothing, you know, did not, if you were a musician doing something that was like outside of the quote unquote norm at the time, like wearing Taylor clothing did not make you seem like, you know, your average Joe.
Joe: Right, right.
Joe: yeah
matt: It was like, It was kind of an act of rebellion because of the art you were making.
Joe: Well, yeah, and the and the other thing that I didn't realize when I was younger that I did come to learn is that even within the realm of tailored clothing, there are differences.
matt: the
matt: Right, right.
Joe: you know A zoot suit is not the same as what a guy was wearing to the bank in the 1920s.
matt: Totally, totally.
Joe: Do you know what I mean? like They're both suits, but there was a time I didn't realize that difference. you know um you You look at like um some of those suits that like jazz musicians were wearing in the 40s with that like super exaggerated shoulders and huge lapels and like big giant pants.
matt: Yeah.
Joe: and i mean Of course, everything was kind of full cut, but there's a difference between like a musician in a nightclub and a guy working in an office somewhere.
matt: Right, right, right.
Joe: you know um Yeah, I mean, even, I can remember the moment when, um you know, I can remember being younger and um you'd hear all this stuff about how um how how shocking everybody thought the Beatles were, like when they came to America, right?
matt: Yeah.
Joe: And I can remember being young and thinking like, these guys wore suits on stage. Like, what was everybody so scared of?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: And then one day realizing that because like stove types, shark skin pants and pointy boots and like long hair, is It's a suit, but it's, you know what I mean?
matt: Right.
Joe: But it's like, there's an aggression, to that it it has an aggressive vibe to it that like other people's clothes didn't, you know?
matt: Yeah. 100%. It's not the same.
Joe: um Or those weird suits that they would have that would button up and have like a shirt collar on them instead of like a regular lapel or whatever.
matt: Oh yeah, yeah, like like bri yeah Brian Jones wore Nehru collar shit.
Joe: You know, yeah.
matt: I guess all the stones did, but, you know, like...
Joe: Yeah. bringing it back to my grandfather. My dad told me one time um when he was like, so my dad would have been 16 in 1966, he tried to get my grandfather to make him a suit with no lapels because he saw the Beatles wearing it on TV and my grandfather refused to do it.
Conor Fowler: ah Wow.
matt: ah That's fantastic!
Joe: He's like, no, he's like, I'm not putting my name on anything like that.
matt: Yeah, yeah. I mean, ah no no shade whatsoever to that at all.
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: Also, going back to zoot suits, I don't think I've ever said this on this um the program, but I definitely bought like the world's shittiest quality zoot suit ah off eBay for my junior prom.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah.
matt: Because like, um yeah, that was, you know, that was during the swing revival and all that shit, so.
Conor Fowler: Nah.
Joe: Oh, I tried to fake it once. I used to go and um I would try to find i would just find regular suits. like I would try to find double -breasted suits that were like really long for someone like much taller than me and then just have the pants hemmed to the right length so they'd have a wicked high waist and really long coat.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Right.
Joe: But it wasn't really that kind of a suit, you know what I mean?
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: I was just trying to like fake it somehow.
matt: e You kind of end up looking more like David Byrne than like an actual, you know, jazz musician.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: my my example of that is seeing portugal the man play i think i talked about this on the show before and like the guy had like a a hoodie under his corduroy maybe tweed jacket i thought it was so fucking cool and then i saw one like at coals or something that was like incorporated and so i bought and i never wore it
matt: yeah yeah not
Conor Fowler: i didn't even wear it one time because i was like when i got it home i was like what the fuck this is like this is like not real this is like a fake this is like a trojan horse don't think at all
Joe: yeah
Joe: How many times did you put it on and take it off before you left the house? Did you even try here?
Conor Fowler: No, I mean, I must have or maybe my dad or maybe my dad gave it to me.
Joe: okay
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: I can't remember exactly how I came to have this thing, but I like remember the tag and like I definitely didn't wear it because it's like you can't have something phony like that.
Joe: No, it's no good. You can get away with it when you're like 14 and you don't know anything.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Joe: And you really, really mean it. There's something to be said for that too.
Conor Fowler: Oh, I was like 17, but even still like you can't it's it's setting off the wrong kind of alarm.
Joe: You know, yeah.
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
matt: Yeah, con Connor, Joe, I feel like you and I are probably around the same age. Connor is a few years younger, so you know he he got some of the bullshit that we had already worked past, sadly.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. um I keep coming sort of circling around to this. um you You have come up on this show like a number of times out of a lot of different people's mouths. You have this ideology about clothing.
Conor Fowler: Somehow you're buying the coolest shit for cheap and you sort of emphasize that this stuff isn't really worth it anything, right? It's like what it's worth. What is ascribed to it?
Conor Fowler: Which is maybe true with a lot of stuff, but is I think even more true about clothing um So there's some kind of like
Joe: Sure.
Conor Fowler: punk DIY aesthetic like that is somehow attached to tailored clothing that is ah nebulously understood on this program. And we were curious if you had any um insight about that.
Conor Fowler: I mean, as the Joe Stromer earlier.
Joe: I think that the the biggest part of it with tailored clothing, um it may be a little less true today, but like especially if you're buying old vintage stuff, um is that um there is absolutely no reason to have any adherence whatsoever to brand names.
matt: Right.
Joe: Like there there are ones that like it's it's good to know the ones that you like um because You know like Brooks Brothers clothes have a shape to them polo stuff has a look to it Whatever you like it it works for you that all of that um And you can look for it.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Joe: You can buy it. You know, it's gonna be good if it's from something like that um but um but the real thing is to just know the good stuff and Because especially if you're buying vintage, like backlin like you find like the most gorgeous jacket in the world and the only tag on the inside is the name of some department store that closed 40 years ago in Pittsburgh or something that no one's ever heard of.
Conor Fowler: yeah Yeah, shout out Pittsburgh.
Joe: Do you know what I mean? like
Conor Fowler: Yeah, i' got one I got one just a few months ago.
Joe: just like
Joe: But you know what I mean? I'm like, that's the trick because the brand name stuff, especially nowadays, we're like less of it's in the thrift stores and more of it's online.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: Um, so it's being flipped. So people are buying stuff and selling stuff. Um, and you know, and I do that too. I'm not going to disparage that, you know? Um, but like, if you're looking for the bargains, you got to like know.
Joe: that that that like there's a lot of good stuff out there that you never heard of.
matt: Right, right.
Joe: Don't even look at that. just like It's either good or it's not. You know what I mean? like um Even stuff like...
Conor Fowler: And that's really the like sort of institutional knowledge right like that you have accumulated.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah, and even to some degree, it's like um I could say the same thing about stuff that's like made in the USA, right? You know, you find old stuff made in the USA, it's going to be good.
Conor Fowler: e
Joe: That doesn't necessarily mean that everything you come across in a thrift store that was made in China is necessarily a piece of crap, you know?
matt: Totally, totally.
Joe: the the thing is you gotta look at the thing and it either is or is not junk and you need to know how to tell the difference with without that kind of like shading your decision you know um i don't know if you saw like you know it i it took me a long time to come around to doing reels i still feel like an idiot dancing around in front of the phone
matt: Yeah.
matt: Oh yeah, don't we all, don't we all?
Conor Fowler: yeah dude right right
Joe: But you know, it's the way the wind is blowing and whatever. um But in a couple of the ones I did, like um this this sweater I have on today, and a couple of others that I have, I have never in my life owned a shaggy dog sweater from J -press, right?
matt: Right.
Joe: did This but so every time I put one of these like fuzzy Shetland sweaters on that I have that's really nice that I got for like four bucks in a thrift store um In the videos.
Joe: I just call it not a shaggy dog four dollars, you know like but Yeah
matt: Yeah, yeah. And the the funniest part is that like any of these sweaters probably were made in the same exact factor or by the same exact people.
Joe: It's the same thing. That's what I mean.
matt: Yeah, yeah, totally.
Joe: It's the same thing. you know it yeah that that's I'm not looking for, I mean, like I said, if you find one that says shaggy dog and it's five bucks and it's your size, score you win.
matt: Right. really Yeah, yeah, it was it was made by har Harley for whatever fucking department store or brand, you know.
Joe: um But you find the other one that says like, um like um you know just says country club or something stupid in the tag.
Joe: Yeah. like yeah
Joe: Right. you know and and and And the other part of that, too, I think, is um you know it's it's it's not the shaggy dog itself that's cool. It's like, what is it about it that's cool?
Joe: Not just that it's it's a sweater from J Press. It's the whole thing. You know what I mean?
matt: Yeah, think so too.
Joe: So like that's not what you're buying. You're buying the all of it, not just like that little piece. um And i think I think more people know that nowadays, which is cool.
matt: Yeah, I mean, like i did were you a style forward member?
Joe: you know
matt: I can't ah can't recall.
Joe: Uh, sort of. i never I never got that into it. I was on there in the beginning, but, um yeah I mean, even nowadays, it's like, I've always kind of just stick to one platform, you know?
matt: Yeah, I gotcha, I gotcha.
Joe: I know, like, the We Johns guys invited me to. they They have, like, a bunch of stuff going on on Discord. And I signed up for it, but I barely have a check -in. I don't think I've ever posted anything, but...
matt: Yeah, I don't understand no no shade Yeah, no shade to anyone I i like once once like MFA on reddit and that shit started like I I just kind of never understood how it worked and discord is about the same for me like Yeah yeah
Conor Fowler: it's too much man, it's too too much reading up is a sin it's too much to keep up with
Joe: I'm just...
Joe: who
Joe: Yeah, I just, I mean, I'm i'm too old for that. yeah I mean, that's the wrong thing to say, but like, I can't handle more than one platform at a time, you know, and these days, it's like Instagram, I know how it works.
matt: Yeah, I feel it. I feel it.
Joe: ah And it's easy. and And that's fine, you know, and I'm not
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Well, guess what? You're on Zencaster and Instagram. So look at that, tandem platforms even.
Joe: Of course, yeah.
Joe: You know, it was Facebook for a time. It was it was blogger before that.
matt: Right.
Joe: um You know, interestingly enough, I just remember this is kind of a little off topic, but back when I was, um I was also selling a lot of clothes online too for some years when my kids were little, right?
Joe: I had like an online store. um and affordable wardrobe. I actually had this place that I used to rent out um that was open as a shop on the weekends, right?
matt: um shit I did not know this
Joe: And um yeah, for years, because because it had got to the point I was selling clothes online so much that I just rented this place to have somewhere to do it so that the stuff wasn't all over my house all the time.
Joe: um So I would like go down there during the week to take photos and post stuff online and run to the post office with stuff that had sold and whatever. um But because it was in a place that was zoned for retail, I would open it up on the weekends.
Joe: And at the time, I yeah yeah i had i got like Twitter and um Tumblr, some of the others, as like a business move, just so that I had like a presence kind of across the ones that were happening in the moment, right?
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, if you succeed, you want to have the Twitter account, you know?
Joe: and
Joe: And to this day, I still don't know why, but Twitter banned me completely in 2015.
matt: Wait, what?
Joe: And I have no idea why. I've never, I can't, people send me links to stuff on Twitter and X, it won't let me see them.
matt: Yeah, right.
Joe: I was like hard -banned like 10 years ago for some reason.
Conor Fowler: Well, you missed the platform dying almost completely.
matt: ah
Conor Fowler: so
Joe: no i don't think it only comes up because uh... you know now it's like a dead thing or whatever but for years you know friends of mine would like text me links to something they saw on twitter i don't know i can't see that do it they're like why not i'm like because i don't know i'm like i'm like public enemy number one over at twitter and i it's weird i hardly ever used it i well i know it's it's like a funny thing and i still to this day remember the last thing i posted there was um...
Conor Fowler: There.
matt: Honestly, what that's a badge of honor.
Joe: We had had like some kind of like disaster weather in Massachusetts, right? Like some huge storm, a bunch of houses at the coast got like washed into the sea or you know, something like that, right?
Conor Fowler: see Sure.
Joe: And it was when Deval Patrick was the governor, right? And I reposted an article from the Boston Globe about how a politician should dress to visit a disaster area.
Joe: that That was, and it was a Boston Globe, and it you know it was like, here's Deval Patrick. He's wearing a windbreaker and a pair of sneakers, you see? Because it's a disaster, and it's raining. You know? like
matt: right
Conor Fowler: that's That's the fucking news media these days though, I mean.
Joe: and it It was just so weird.
matt: Right.
Joe: I didn't say anything about it. I just reposted it.
Conor Fowler: And that was all over.
Joe: you know This was way before Donald Trump threw the toilet paper at the people in Puerto Rico or any of that.
matt: Right, right.
Joe: you know like like It couldn't have been that. you know like Yeah.
matt: ah Yeah, so, so strange.
Conor Fowler: They don't want you to win.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: An affordable wardrobe going viral was against ah the ruling class's wishes.
Conor Fowler: you
Joe: um viral I suppose whatever yeah Yeah, I guess I guess not you know But you know it's
Conor Fowler: Well cause it's guys listen, it's a thrifty it's a thrifty approach and they don't want that. They want you to pay retail. But we're here to tell you, don't pay retail.
matt: Don't pay retail. Pay pe retail from small companies. Pay retail from good companies.
Joe: But it's funny because um because the reason I stopped selling clothes so much and closed that thing down um was because when I started, like no one was doing it.
Joe: And then by the end, the whole blog thing had happened and all these other guys had come up.
matt: Right.
Joe: And it got to the point where all these little thrift stores that I would visit and find stuff, I used to joke with Zach about it because he was doing it at the same time too. I'd be like, yeah, you know you come to some Salvation Army in the middle of nowhere and you go back in the men's department and there's a guy back there with a barber jacket and a beard.
Joe: I just turn around and leave.
matt: a Yeah.
Joe: it's already I'm already too late. you know like Like that guy didn't used to be there five years ago when I would show up to these places.
matt: Man, and say as a person that does vintage full -time, like that is, yeah, I share this sentiment.
Joe: you know
Joe: yeah And it was like a bittersweet thing. I was like, i so I suppose I feel some responsibility for having brought this about since I went online and like made it my mission to tell everybody, you know?
Conor Fowler: No, dude, you tried to beat you tried to be honest and good about it.
matt: I mean, it, well, and honestly, in my opinion, people have been selling secondhand shit, whether it be antique or vintage, long before we were alive.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: and that will continue long before or long after we're dead. So.
Conor Fowler: Well, maybe, I mean, i this is not what I'm seeing in my neck of the woods. I'm seeing like Crofton Barrow and Goodfellow only, right?
matt: Oh, yeah, yeah, 100 percent.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Which, now, how is it happening that way?
matt: Well, I mean, it like.
Conor Fowler: and It doesn't really matter, but effectively, that's what's happening.
matt: Well.
Joe: Well, it it is tough.
Conor Fowler: They're new with tags.
Joe: Even up here even up here in Boston. um the stores are not what they used to be. um And I spend a lot more time buying stuff on eBay or trading with people online or whatever, um spending more for it, still getting things cheaper than their value or worth or whatever.
matt: right totally yeah yeah for sure when I go into five thrifts in a day and I walk out with three things I'm like great this is yeah yeah like they're they were three dollars and I was like this is cool enough to buy for three bucks but you know like that I think going back to a point you made earlier like
Joe: But but it's not, you know, I do still enjoy the clothes, but I kind of miss um the hunting used to be a lot more fun. um You know,
Joe: Three things and two of them are kind of just okay, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
matt: um not a A lot of finding the you know thrifting and and secondhand shit in general is kind of like gold mining.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: But you know when you when you have the knowledge and the experience that you can like touch something or see something on the rack and be like, okay, this is going to be good. And then it is good, is is like revolutionary.
matt: like you Not everyone is that way.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. And you know, and I guess, you know, I wish it was still like it was, but I suppose I'm happy to have been a part of like making more people aware of it, you know?
matt: Yeah, me too, me too.
matt: Right, right, and and I don't think that it's a bad thing that more people are appreciating secondhand, you know, and...
Joe: um Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, I mean, I've never been wanted to i mean to use use a term that my kids will use is to gatekeep stuff like that.
matt: Right, right, right, yeah.
Joe: you know um I'm just like, well that's that's just like such an asshole move to me. you know um the The other one that used to come up too, more so in the old days, is like you'd get these guys who'd be like, ah you know some kid would post a thing.
Joe: And he'd be wearing like Nantucket Reds, but they were from J. Crew. And they'd be like, oh, those aren't the real Nantucket Reds. Murray's Toggery Shop.
matt: Right, right.
Joe: And I would always be the one who would be like, no, but like this kid is like interested in this and is like doing the best he can with what he knows at the moment.
matt: 100%, yeah.
Joe: and Like he will move from that to the bit like don't shit on him. he You know what I think Like like like I applaud the effort like it's not bad.
matt: Yeah, totally, totally.
Joe: It could be better keep going yeah like Yes Yeah, yeah exactly exactly and again the label thing it's like who who gives a shit if he never told you where they came from you probably wouldn't have said anything, you know, like Yeah, it would have been fine.
matt: Yeah, yeah, we all we all start somewhere.
matt: Right, 100%.
Joe: So
matt: Well, ah to yeah, this has been a ah great chat. And I feel like the three of us are are very aligned on a lot of lot of the ways that we see shit.
matt: But to end things, what's some of the wildest or are your favorite finds over the years?
Joe: ah She's been a lot of...
matt: It doesn't have to be, yeah. I know there's been many, but...
Joe: Yeah. Let me take a look at some of the... um Oh, you want to know one of the craziest things that ever happened? is um One time I found ah found this tweed jacket at a thrift store right and it was from the Andover shop and it was made out of that like hardcore, heavy as hell, bulletproof tweed.
Joe: right It was moss green and it had a big giant orange and red window paint on it.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: like Like really very very like English like duck shooting
matt: Ooh.
Conor Fowler: Beautiful.
Joe: and it weighed a ton and whatever. And I got out of the thrift store for a couple of bucks and I was psyched, right?
matt: Right.
Joe: And the first time I had it on, I was walking in Harvard Square and the same jacket was on the window display in the Andover shop.
matt: Ha, ha, ha, that's great.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Joe: So somehow it wasn't even, it was like a current thing that they were selling, right? So whatever, that's not even the end of it. So I had it and um And I wore it for a few years.
Joe: And then, you know, when you when you when you're like this, you you accumulate stuff, you purge stuff, you sell it, you donate it, it comes and it goes and whatever. And somewhere along the way, I sold that jacket and like immediately regretted it, right?
matt: Right.
Joe: And then, um like six months later, I was poking around eBay and I not only found the same jacket, but the actual one that had belonged to me.
Joe: being resold by the guy that I sold it to and bought it back from him for like 50 bucks but so because I had regretted getting rid of it so much you know so that was like one like ultra crazy thing um I mean I don't know I remember one time I found like
Conor Fowler: That's the circle of life right there. From whence you came.
Joe: I went into a thrift store, some suburb somewhere, and found this like whole stash of like Alpine German stuff. like Like one of those like lodden capes and like the hat with all the pins and the feathers on it and like the crazy suit that's almost like a neighbor jacket with the leaves.
matt: Oh yeah.
Joe: like like a whole Some old guy from Austria had died and like all his like Austria stuff was there. um And I wound up selling it all in one lot somewhere, you know um And it's fun.
Joe: That's that's the fun of it like that was some really cool well -made stuff that I was absolutely never gonna wear but it was just fun to like have found it and have Had it for a while and moved it on to someone else You know and just to have been part of a lifespan of that thing, you know Yeah
matt: yeah
matt: Yeah, that the person, if you sold a whole lot of that to one person, that person really enjoyed it. And like, you know, I say often to people, there's a collector for fucking everything.
Joe: Right, and that's the fun thing about selling stuff is like, um i would i I know that that stuff was awesome, but I was totally never gonna wear it. It's just not my thing. would you know i I wouldn't have pulled it off, I didn't want to, um but it doesn't mean that I appreciated any less for what it is.
matt: 100%.
matt: totally for sure for sure yeah and there's nothing like uh nothing better than like you know i'll be doing a pop -up market and sell something to someone and they get so psyched on the thing or they put it on immediately and are like walking out with it it's like
Joe: um So you know buying and selling stuff gets you gives you the chance to play with these things that are maybe not necessarily for you um in a way that you couldn't if you were only shopping for yourself.
Joe: you know Yeah.
matt: Yeah, I sell on eBay and and Instagram and shit too, but like that little burst of serotonin that you get from note knowing like, I found this, you know, 200 miles away from where I live in some God forsaken town.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: And this person is so stoked up.
Joe: Oh, that's like, of so so so for a while when I had the little, my my kids used to call it the secret store ah because it was on the second floor in a building and you'd never find it if I didn't put the sign out on the street.
matt: Right.
Joe: um I had found, um I found a suit, of tails, like white tie from the from like 1918 or something like that, right?
matt: Oh man, yeah.
Joe: and it was the jacket and the pants and it was made out of that like real thick flannel and it's like the big thick like like ribbed groguering silk on the lapels and everything but of course it was so old it was like super tiny right um but i bought it anyway because i found it somewhere and it was awesome and i had it in the shop and um down the hall from um from where my place was, there was a yoga studio and all the places on the second floor had a shared bathroom, right? So I had gone out to go to the bathroom and I came back ah and one of the people from the yoga studio,
Joe: i this non -binary person who was a writer who had just had a book come out and was getting ready to do like the book release party was standing in my place wearing this like super old 1920s tuxedo um and because they had been born a small female person it fit you know i mean in a way that it wasn't gonna fit any guy
matt: Right.
matt: yeah That's awesome.
Joe: And it was like, the and and we we hadn't even met. And and then, it was oh, my my name's Jade. I'm doing this book thing. And I'm so happy to find this crazy old tux. I was so happy to find someone to sell it to, because I thought I was never going to get rid of it, right?
Joe: um And so I sold it to them and they did the book party and it was cool. And then the side effect of it was for like a year after that, up until I closed the store, I was like the secret store for like non -binary people to go buy men's clothes.
matt: oh Fuck yeah, fuck yes Yeah, yeah Totally
Conor Fowler: Nah!
Joe: it And so like, yeah, so I started like intentionally like picking up like small tuxedos that I might've passed on before. All of a sudden they had this market for the stuff, you know um But it was like a thing I never meant to happen, but just totally became a thing, you know um And I was just like sure if this is like a thing i' um I'm into it.
Joe: That's great, you know um Yeah, and i yeah I remember I wrote that was in the days when when the old blog was going to I had pictures of Jade wearing the the tails and I did a whole write -up about how um
matt: totally
Joe: you know, Josephine Baker and Marlene Dietrich and all these, like, like the idea of, like, a woman wearing a men's tailcoat in some sort of unusual setting is nothing new, you know what I mean?
matt: Nope, nope.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, we'll have to pull that for sure.
Joe: Like, yeah.
matt: Yeah, that's ah that that is a true way to be an ally.
Joe: It's on there somewhere, yeah, and I was just...
Conor Fowler: There's a Josephine Baker mural in Baltimore, like right on one of the main roads.
Joe: Cool. Where's she from around there?
Conor Fowler: I believe she was from Baltimore.
Joe: I think so, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: I believe she was from West Baltimore and Billie Holiday too.
Joe: But you know, that's something I never would have expected. It just it just happened.
matt: Yeah, yeah, that's that's the kind of serendipitous stuff that that like,
Joe: And I was like, you know, yeah.
matt: I don't know, it's it's a core part of the thrift life.
Joe: yeah
Joe: Yeah, and even when I sold it, I was like, I gotta tell you, I was like, every every bone in my body told me not to buy this thing, despite how awesome it was, because it was like a 27 -inch waist and a size 34 chest, you know, like some teeny tiny guy in 1920s that was wearing this thing.
matt: Right.
Joe: um But it was just so awesome, I couldn't leave it behind, you know what I mean?
matt: I feel it entirely.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. And it found a good home, you know?
matt: It didn't, it didn't.
Joe: um Yeah.
matt: Fuck you.
Joe: And not just on a hanger in someone's closet. like you know it it It got purchased, it got worn to some special event, which is what the thing was for in the first place anyway. you know That's cool.
matt: Yeah, I hope it's still hanging in their closet. Like, you know, I'm sure that they remember the situation as much as you do.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Four has moved on to its next rightful owner.
matt: Yeah, 100%.
Joe: you know One or the other, yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah, the circle of thrift life. Anyway, Joe, man, and this has been fucking awesome. um Thank you, yeah, thank you so much for coming on.
Conor Fowler: For sure.
matt: We always give our guests a chance to shout out themselves or whatever else they would like to, so have at it.
Joe: Oh, shout outs. Geez, I don't know. I'm a homebody. I don't do much outside of the house. But you know what? um I would give, um I mean, anybody I'm gonna shout out is somebody you've already interviewed here anyway, you know?
matt: ha well
Joe: My my good buddy Zach, AKA, and my Leon dad, AKA, used to be Newton Street Vintage.
matt: Oh yeah.
Joe: I give him a shout out. We talk all the time. We're still ah good buddies despite living on opposite ends of the country.
matt: Right.
Joe: um
matt: Did you know him when he was in Boston or did you guys meet online?
Joe: You know how we met is um when I organized the first top shelf flea market, i ah which I don't know if you guys ever heard of that or remember.
Joe: um but i So I used to organize these vintage flea markets back before that was really a thing too.
Conor Fowler: Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
Joe: um And when I did the first one, i I advertised on the blog just looking for vendors. I was like, anybody wants to do this thing? get in touch And he was one of the guys that got in touch with me.
Joe: um That's how we met. and um yeah We've been friends ever since.
matt: Oh, that's awesome.
Joe: We worked together at Ralph Lauren for a while um in in the the flagship store in Boston. He actually got me that job. um But yeah, it was just complete serendipitous thing.
Joe: I was doing a flea market.
matt: that's
Joe: He was reading my blog. and you know Um, yeah, and we're good friends. Same thing with, I mean, there was some other guys like, like, um, like John Tinsiff. I met through affordable wardrobe. We've, we've been really good friends for years. Um, you know, ADG, remember him?
matt: Oh, yeah.
Joe: Dusty Granger, yeah, he's another friend of mine. He's kind of dropped off the scene a little bit, which is fine, but um he's another good friend of mine that came to me by way of this ah this whole crazy world and all.
matt: Oh, that's great.
Joe: So yeah, um it's it's been fun because the people I have met along the way have been have been good folks by and large.
matt: Totally.
Joe: you know asshole here An asshole or two here and there, but that's kind of inevitable, I guess.
matt: Totally.
matt: For sure.
Joe: So yeah.
matt: For sure, and ah throw everyone, if they don't already follow you, your Instagram handle.
Joe: So my Instagram handle is an affordable wardrobe and period affordable period wardrobe. I think if I'm not mistaken. Um, but yeah, an affordable wardrobe just like it's always been.
matt: Yeah, yeah, and highly recommend, highly recommend.
Joe: Um,
Conor Fowler: Just like it's always been, hell yeah.
Joe: yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, because it's because it's many, many, many, many posts, the blogspot one.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I mean, it's like an insane time capsule into that period of our little scene.
Joe: Well, I used to post on that thing like three, four times a week. you know i was um you know the The funny thing, too, is the reason I didn't do it for so many years is what I liked most about the old blog was the writing.
Joe: and um you know Because it was, like I said earlier, it was more about writing than it is now. and then um you know i didn't I sort of like went ah went dark for a while because writing wasn't where it was at anymore.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Joe: And even if you look at the the Instagram when I started, in in the beginning the posts were like one picture and a whole bunch of paragraphs until I realized that that's just not how Instagram works.
matt: Sadly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joe: and not Not what anyone's looking for. so ah But you know we adapt, it's still fun.
matt: We do adapt.
Joe: you know Yeah.
matt: Yeah, as long as you're having fun, it's that's all that matters.
Joe: Yeah.
matt: But yeah, so one more time, thank you, Joe.
Joe: Cool.
matt: Everyone, thank you for listening. um If you'd like to send us an email, it's apocalypseduds at gmail ah .com, at apocalypseduds on Instagram. And I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
Conor Fowler: And I am Connor Flower at Connor Flower.
matt: And yeah, we'll catch you next week.
Joe: Thanks a lot, guys. Bye -bye.
Conor Fowler: Peace.
matt: Take care.
Conor Fowler: Oh man, yeah. And I wanted to say Mitch McConnell fell two times in the Senate, like very recently.
matt: a
Joe: Did he? you what wait can i Can I leave you with one thing about Mitch McConnell, a secret theory that I have?
Conor Fowler: ah Yeah.
matt: Yeah. Yeah, please do.
Conor Fowler: Yeah,
Joe: If you look at Mitch McConnell's suits, I think he wears Oxford.
matt: Probably yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah
Joe: You know, OXX, look at the lapels, and that's just me being a super dork.
Conor Fowler: yeah, yeah.
Joe: As much as I ah credit that guy with, like, 85 % of the downfall of America, um he does wear nice clothes, nice most of the people.
Conor Fowler: Well, when you are when you are a human shaped like a turtle, you have to conceal your body in a certain way.
Joe: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And that's that's the Oxford cloth, Oxford suiting does.
Joe: But if...
matt: i don't think I don't think I've ever seen him in like the shitty dress thinkers that Kevin, whatever the fuck that asshole's name is.
Joe: But if...
Conor Fowler: No, dude, because Mitch McConnell is like propelled only by evil.
matt: yeah
Joe: yeah
Conor Fowler: And a soft soul is not evil at all.
matt: True, true.
Joe: No, but I'm serious. The next time you see him on TV wearing a suit, look at the cut of the lapel of his jacket and then compare it to an Oxford suit.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: It's a very distinct lapel that they have.
matt: It truly is, it truly is.
Joe: and um And you know how I figured that one out and I'm not to keep dragging it on.
matt: Man.
Joe: You know, when it first occurred to me is um I wrote a thing on affordable wardrobe when they made such a big stink about Barack Obama's tan suit. And I poked around the internet and found a picture of Mitch McConnell wearing a tan suit, you know, in July or something because it was the summertime.
matt: Oh yeah.
Joe: And I was like, well, this guy's got a tan suit too. And that's when I first noticed it. ah but Yeah.
matt: Nice. nice yes we we will the tan suit day will live in infamy or days probably there you go solid idea let's let's organize this one
Joe: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that should be, a get all the menswear guys together to protest by showing up in tan suits for something.
Conor Fowler: Have you considered the way that these tariffs will affect my clothing purchases? Golly!
Joe: Oh, God. well Yeah, I better order some Wranglers now before they go into effect in Mexico, since that's where they make those.
matt: right right all right well ah yeah this has been hella fun and we appreciate your time Joe take care of my friend
Joe: yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, thanks for having me guys.
Conor Fowler: Yeah man.
Joe: Hey, have a good one.
