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Maybe It's In The Blood with Giuseppe Timore
171 Plays19 days ago
Hear the tale of a century of family history all under one roof. Giuseppe Timore @an.affordable.wardrobe takes our call in his living room, in the house he grew up in, and remembers his grandparents working closely with clothing. Was his interest in clothing predestined? Well, this week, discover, dear listeners. GT describes his lifelong obsession with clothing, and shares some of the wisdom he’s collected along the way.
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Transcript
Introduction of Giuseppe Joe and His Influence
00:00:06
Conor Fowler
Hello and welcome I am Connor Flower and welcome to another joyous episode of Apocalypse Duds.
00:00:18
Conor Fowler
Today we have in the studio someone who I was going to introduce in the style of the godfather Uh, but I thought that that would be racist and perhaps would understate even the influence of this person on me in particular, as concerns this whole clothing scene. I would like to introduce Giuseppe to more Joe.
00:00:46
Conor Fowler
ah Thanks for coming, ah Joe of an affordable war wardrobe blog spot, and now on the Instagram platform as well.
00:00:59
Joe
Well, thanks for having me.
00:00:59
matt
Yeah, we're yeah yeah we're we're big fans and Connor and myself have both followed you for a very long time. So, yeah.
00:01:08
Conor Fowler
since RSS feed I'm talking about. Like since RSS feed, I would read that shit.
00:01:11
matt
ha Jesus.
00:01:12
Joe
yeah
00:01:14
Conor Fowler
I'd read that shit in my like music 217 class, history of rock and roll. It was so fucking boring. And I was like, yeah, going through every single post. ah So it's really good to have you finally in our crosshairs.
00:01:29
matt
Yeah, yeah. how's How's your day going this Wednesday?
00:01:32
Joe
yeah ah So far so good. It's ah usually my day off on Wednesdays, but this is the first one in a few weeks that I've actually had the day off to just kind of hang out.
00:01:44
matt
Nice.
00:01:44
Joe
So that is good.
00:01:45
Conor Fowler
And so you decided to waste your time with us.
00:01:46
Joe
Yeah.
00:01:48
Conor Fowler
ah Very nice, thank you.
Joe's Family Background and Influence in Clothing
00:01:51
matt
Yeah, so just to just to get started, Joe, where are you from and where are you now?
00:01:58
Joe
So I am from Somerville, Massachusetts, which is just outside of Boston.
00:02:02
matt
Oh, yeah. Somerville's great.
00:02:04
Joe
ah And not only am I there now, but this house is the place where I grew up.
00:02:10
matt
Oh, shit.
00:02:11
Joe
So, yeah, been here the whole time.
00:02:11
Conor Fowler
Oh, that's right, dude, that's so wild, Blake.
00:02:16
Joe
ah Yeah, my kids are now fourth generation of my family in the same place, so.
00:02:16
matt
that's That's awesome.
00:02:21
matt
Man, that's super cool.
00:02:22
Conor Fowler
do you have Do you have like hash marks on the wall, like height hash marks?
00:02:29
Joe
Oh, the place is a mess.
00:02:29
Conor Fowler
I feel like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
00:02:30
Joe
every Every single thing that's happened here in the last 60 years is in the wall somewhere.
00:02:31
Conor Fowler
like
00:02:35
Conor Fowler
But that is like miraculous, I think.
00:02:35
Joe
Yeah.
00:02:38
Conor Fowler
Like that's really, I don't know, I guess sort of, is is it sort of a double-edged sword or bittersweet or something?
00:02:38
Joe
Yeah.
00:02:43
Joe
Yeah. but But the good outweighs the bad. We're kind of old school that way. It's an old two apartment house. And my parents live in the other apartment, which the apartment I live in was where my grandparents lived when I was a kid.
00:03:01
Joe
So old school Italian. We just stay here, all of us together.
00:03:05
matt
Yeah.
00:03:05
Joe
so yeah
00:03:06
Conor Fowler
Yeah
00:03:07
matt
I mean, that like i've been I've spent a good bit that good bit of time in Boston and surrounding you know small suburbs, Somerville is cool, Austin, et cetera.
00:03:16
Joe
Mm-hmm.
00:03:18
matt
And it's such a unique place because that shit happens and like the arc or the housing was kind of built that way. And I i don't i don't know if I've seen that elsewhere.
00:03:25
Joe
Sure, sure.
00:03:29
Joe
Yeah, there's less and less of it these days, but um but we're...
00:03:32
Conor Fowler
Well, because it's not it's not about buying, right?
00:03:32
matt
Yeah.
00:03:33
Joe
ah Yeah.
00:03:37
Conor Fowler
If you're reusing the dwelling, like you're not buying a new one.
00:03:41
Joe
Yeah, and the craziest thing about it is that um when my mother was a teenager in the 60s, my grandmother bought this house literally for cash, like a suitcase full of money that she had just saved up over time, um and then like went to the bank and was like, here's $22,000 and bought this house.
00:03:52
matt
but
00:03:55
matt
Right, right. That's great.
00:04:03
Joe
So, yeah, yeah.
00:04:04
matt
ah Incredible. Yeah. I saw a meme yesterday that was like, if you could go back to 2001 and one what would and ah look at the housing market, what would you do? And the answer was buy a house for my lunch money.
00:04:17
Conor Fowler
right yeah yeah they bought my girlfriend's house for like $40,000 and it's like it's like ah it's like a house it's like a nice house in
00:04:18
Joe
Buy all the houses, yeah.
00:04:19
matt
Right, right. Yeah, no shit. ah
00:04:27
Joe
Yeah.
00:04:32
matt
ah Yeah, yeah, for
Early Interest in Clothing and Influence of Movies
00:04:34
matt
real. So ah how like how long have you been into clothing? Is this something you've been into you know since you were a kid? or
00:04:35
Conor Fowler
92 or whatever
00:04:44
Joe
i Yeah, ever since I was a kid. um And I don't really know where it came from, but I can remember like I used to watch a lot of old movies when I was a kid, like like old black and white movies, stuff like that.
00:04:56
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:04:58
matt
Oh yeah, definitely.
00:05:00
Joe
My grandfather my one grandfather was a tailor.
00:05:03
matt
Ooh.
00:05:03
Joe
and um
00:05:04
Conor Fowler
Oh, I see. yeah that's said That's crazy.
00:05:05
Joe
Yeah, and my and my grandmother on the other side, she actually used to work in a clothing factory a million years ago when she worked. um And I remember when um when she, this was well before I was like, you know, when I was a kid or whatever, when she retired, they gave her um her sewing machine from the factory that she worked in.
00:05:29
Conor Fowler
ah
00:05:29
matt
Oh, that's incredible.
00:05:29
Joe
So yeah, so when I was growing up down in the basement, she had one of those like um professional grade singer machines built into the table that had like the big rack on top for all the schools of thread and like the yardstick painted right on the front and everything.
00:05:31
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:05:47
Joe
um And she would like, you know, when we were kids like we'd buy pants for our school uniforms and she'd hem them if they were too long and she'd like crochet of sweaters and all this kind of stuff, you know.
00:05:55
matt
Right.
00:06:00
Joe
um So I was I guess always kind of a little bit around it or this kind of like appreciation for it in that way.
00:06:06
matt
yeah
00:06:07
Joe
um
00:06:08
Conor Fowler
Not a lot of people have Taylor taylor relatives even. I'm like...
00:06:11
Joe
Yeah, yeah. my my My grandfather was like, he died when I was real young. I was only like eight or nine when he passed away.
00:06:17
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:06:18
Joe
But he was like, like you know, if you look at pictures of my dad and my uncle when they were teenagers, um you know, like my dad is wearing a tweed suit in his yearbook picture from high school that my grandfather made for him, you know.
00:06:34
matt
Oh, no, that's incredible.
00:06:35
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:06:36
Joe
the tuxedo that he got married and like like legitimately like made from scratch kind of level of of of thing, you know? So maybe it's in the blood a little bit or whatever.
00:06:47
matt
Right, right.
00:06:48
Joe
um Yeah, but yeah.
00:06:48
Conor Fowler
Yeah, but that's amazing. that's like There are so many different answers to that question that we get. you know like um I think a significant number of people would say like movies or old movies, what have you, but that's ah that's like, ah you kind of came to it honestly.
00:07:02
Joe
Yeah.
00:07:07
Joe
Yeah, yeah. And the funny thing was after you know after he was gone, um when I started to get into it a little more seriously, when I was when i was like 12 or 14 or whatever, um I remember asking my dad if he had any of his old stuff, right? And my dad being like, I have some of it, but you can't wear it. And I was like, why not? He's like, because your grandfather was like five foot one.
00:07:32
Joe
yeah
00:07:32
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:07:32
matt
right right
00:07:33
Joe
and And in my mind, he wasn't because I was a kid when he died. So he was just like a grownup, right?
00:07:38
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:07:39
Joe
And I'll never forget, I went up in the attic and we had some of his old stuff and there was like some suits. and I put the pants on, and I was only 12 years old at the time, and I put on a pair of pants and they fit me in the waist, but barely came past my knee.
00:07:52
Joe
And I was like, oh, so he was like a little roly poly Italian guy, like freaky tall, you know?
00:07:52
Conor Fowler
no
00:07:54
matt
Oh, that's...
00:07:58
Conor Fowler
Yeah, that's.
00:07:59
matt
That's killer.
00:08:00
Joe
Yeah, and in my mind, i don't I don't see him that way, so my dad was like, I'd give it all to you, but there's no one's ever gonna be able to wear this stuff ever again, so.
00:08:07
matt
Right, right. but the
00:08:09
Conor Fowler
Did you, did you wear uniform?
00:08:12
Joe
Yeah, all through elementary school, yeah.
00:08:13
Conor Fowler
I figured, do you think that that had like some, I don't know, influence on you in terms of at least like comfortability wearing that
Impact of School Uniforms on Style Comfort
00:08:22
Conor Fowler
kind of clothing?
00:08:22
Joe
Yeah, I find that among the friends that I have that also went to school in those days wearing uniforms, um all the guys I know who grew up that way are incredibly comfortable putting on a suit to go to a thing.
00:08:38
matt
yeah
00:08:39
Joe
You know, and I know other people who that complain and it's, how can you wear that? And it's so constricting or whatever. um But I think for those of us who started young, we're just like, I don't know, it's in a church, you put a tie on.
00:08:45
Conor Fowler
Then it doesn't fail.
00:08:50
Joe
yeah Just do it, what's the problem, you know?
00:08:51
matt
Right, right.
00:08:51
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:08:56
Conor Fowler
Sorry man, I know you were.
00:08:58
matt
Oh, I was just gonna, just out of curiosity, where was your grandfather's shop?
00:09:04
Joe
So he actually, um he used to just kind of make clothes himself for a like people.
00:09:10
matt
Okay.
00:09:11
Joe
And he also worked, when my when my dad was younger, he he worked in a factory. His job was actually working in a factory that made police uniforms.
00:09:21
matt
oh OK.
00:09:22
Joe
like in the days when the cops were wearing like double breasted brass buttons all the way down the front, you know what I mean?
00:09:26
Conor Fowler
yeah before
00:09:28
matt
Right, right, yeah.
00:09:29
Joe
um He was like so in those coats in in a factory in Boston back when Boston had a little district in town that had that kind of stuff, you know?
00:09:30
Conor Fowler
the tactical there's a place in Baltimore called the cop shop which is like where all of the like they buy all of their whatever surveillance gear and shit
00:09:38
matt
Yeah, that's cool. I mean, there's.
00:09:42
Joe
Yeah.
00:09:47
Joe
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:47
matt
Yeah.
00:09:48
Joe
And then when he was older, he was um he worked in it as like the in-house alterations guy at a couple of men's stores around, so, yeah.
00:09:54
matt
Oh, that's cool. I mean, Massachusetts has, you know, a very long history of ah clothing and footwear production.
00:10:04
Joe
Yeah.
00:10:04
matt
ah Rest in peace, Southwick, ah sadly.
00:10:07
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:10:08
Joe
Yeah, of course, right?
00:10:08
matt
but Right.
00:10:11
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like more than, more than probably anywhere else, but New York, right? I mean, I guess there's garment production in Los Angeles, but it's like, I don't know, sort of new school garment production, right?
00:10:17
Joe
Yeah, probably, yeah.
00:10:23
Conor Fowler
It's not the same type of, uh, it's not the same type of prestige or like heritage or what have you.
00:10:29
Joe
No, it's not like, you know, like Southwick or the Alden factory or, you know, even the LL Bean Boots or anything like that that's just got like so, so old school and so ah kind of distinctly American too, you know?
00:10:37
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:10:42
Conor Fowler
A pillar of Americana. Yeah.
00:10:45
matt
Right. Totally.
00:10:46
Joe
Yeah.
00:10:46
matt
Totally. Did, did you see, you know, obviously you said you were, you, you know, you've been interested in, in how clothes look for the majority of her life.
00:10:57
matt
Like, are there any, um, you know, any people that stand out that you were kind of like, Oh, like I want to emulate this person from back in the day.
Influences: Fred Astaire and Joe Strummer
00:11:08
Joe
i like Like when I was really young, it's like it's like the the same old answer from a lot of people, but those old movies, um Fred Astaire was like God, because not only were his clothes really nice, but he would wear them in like weird, rule-breaky kind of ways that I thought was really cool.
00:11:18
matt
right
00:11:18
Conor Fowler
Mhm.
00:11:24
matt
Right.
00:11:27
Joe
you know um But like I've been kind of always been kind of fluid with it too. you know it's like that There was a time where like Joe Strummer was also a god of like how to dress yourself to me.
00:11:38
matt
Right. Oh, yeah.
00:11:39
Conor Fowler
Mhm.
00:11:40
Joe
Among that world. um And sort of other things too. I've gone through phases over my life. but Fred was probably the first one, you know, I don't dance I've never He always had really good shoes that that was like a big part of it too, so yeah Yeah Of course, yeah
00:11:51
matt
Yeah.
00:12:00
matt
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shoes, I feel like are one of those things across the board that just like, if you're, if you're into clothing and, and, you know, kind of nerd out the way that we all do, like shoes are super important. It doesn't matter what kind of shoe, you know, be it a Converse Chuck Taylor or an Air Jordan or, you know, a long wing, like,
00:12:21
matt
that's That's the first thing I always notice about anyone.
00:12:24
Joe
yeah it's what yeah and i mean it was you know i can remember being a kid and like trying to dress uh
00:12:25
matt
For for for better or worse, sadly.
00:12:33
Joe
in that real kind of 1930s way um in whatever sort of slanted version of it I was putting together as a kid.
00:12:44
Joe
you know um I was also lucky because back then, it's a little less so now, but there were a lot of thrift stores around in Boston.
00:12:44
matt
Right, right.
00:12:51
matt
Yeah.
00:12:52
Joe
And at the time, you know it was it was long enough ago that like most people's dads had been wearing suits to work for many many years so you'd walk in a thrift store and you could just find that stuff all over the place like a dime a dozen you know um and it was boston so there was brooks brothers all over the place and like old stuff from jay press and like it was nothing you know um and i didn't realize it at the time how how spoiled i was but like
00:13:08
matt
Right.
00:13:08
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:13:18
matt
Yeah.
00:13:25
Joe
You know, you could just yeah you could walk into the Salvation Army and I could buy suits like that for five bucks or something, you know?
00:13:32
matt
Oh, totally, totally.
00:13:34
Joe
Yeah, and then go home and wear them and they wouldn't fit and I wouldn't know what kind of things to put with them. But I thought it was all perfect in my head and whatever.
00:13:41
matt
Of course, of course.
00:13:41
Joe
um Yeah, but in reality, I was just like the weird kid from up the street who didn't play sports and had spend was instead was spending all his time on that stuff.
00:13:51
matt
Yeah. do you but Do you remember some of the first stuff that you thrifted?
00:13:51
Joe
Yeah.
00:13:55
Joe
ah I remember, so there's a store in Cambridge called Keyser's. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of it.
00:14:04
Conor Fowler
I have none.
00:14:04
Joe
Keyser's has been open for over a hundred years, like since the 19th century.
00:14:08
matt
Oh, wow.
00:14:10
Joe
Yeah, and it used to be, um it's sort of like right near Harvard. So its history is that um guys going to Harvard used to sell their old stuff to Keesers.
00:14:20
Conor Fowler
Right. right
00:14:21
Joe
And it's always been like this secondhand clothing store, but from way before that was a thing, right?
00:14:26
matt
Right, right.
00:14:26
Joe
um And that was like the money place, right? There would be Goodwill and Salvation Army and whatever, but Keesers would be like, If I wanted to save some money and go buy something, I would go there. you know um And when I was maybe 14, I remember I saved for weeks until I had $45. And I went to Kieser's and I bought this gray double-breasted suit for 45 bucks and like would just wear the thing until it fell apart. you know
00:14:57
Joe
um
00:14:57
Conor Fowler
yeah.
00:14:58
Joe
Yeah, I bought, um you know, I bought a, um it's funny, i just I just recently got a, one of those big, full-cut raglan sleeve coats from the 60s that everybody loves nowadays.
00:15:12
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's right. right
00:15:13
Joe
And it took me like three years to find it, but I had one that I bought at Keyser's that was made out of Harris Tweed that weighed like 400 pounds that i that i that I had to save $25 to go buy.
00:15:21
matt
right yeah
00:15:26
Joe
you know ah Hold on just a sec, someone's ringing my doorbell.
00:15:27
matt
Right.
00:15:30
Conor Fowler
Yeah, you're good.
00:15:30
matt
No worries.
00:15:34
matt
Pause it.
00:15:34
Conor Fowler
No, you're good. We paused it. If you got a jet, that's fine. I mean, we're like.
00:15:38
Joe
No, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. Just one of the kids came home earlier than I expected, so.
00:15:41
matt
Okay.
00:15:43
Conor Fowler
Yeah, well, it could have been worse.
00:15:46
Joe
Yeah.
00:15:47
Conor Fowler
ah It's like you could have been on the phone with, I don't know, the Soviets.
00:15:54
matt
ah
00:15:54
Joe
Would that really have been worse though?
00:15:55
Conor Fowler
I don't know. that Yeah, no, not so well, not worse than this.
00:15:57
matt
Yeah, true.
00:15:58
Conor Fowler
And we are a little Soviet in a way.
00:16:00
Joe
Hmm.
00:16:01
matt
True, true.
00:16:03
Conor Fowler
So we haven't asked this question yet, but we do ask this question to everyone. I think it's a sort of specific formation. What is your first memory of clothing? Do you have something that really stands out to you?
00:16:15
Conor Fowler
Like
Rediscovering Cowboy Boots
00:16:16
Conor Fowler
ah going really back, I mean, something that you thought like, oh my God, I have to have that aside from the gray double breasted.
00:16:16
Joe
ah
00:16:24
Joe
so So I don't specifically remember this from when I was a kid, but A few years ago, i was in ah I was in a thrift store with my wife and I found a pair of these really nice Tony Llama cowboy boots, right?
00:16:42
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah. yeah
00:16:43
Joe
And we had split up in the store and she was looking at the women's stuff and I was over there and she came and found me in the shoes and I had them on and I was checking them out and she was like, you're not serious. And I was like, I'm as surprised as you are, but I think I am, you know?
00:16:56
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:16:56
Joe
And we had to talk i was like and they were $12 and I was all about it. And then I bought them and um they instantly became like the favorite shoes.
00:17:07
Joe
I would wear them all the time. Since then I've bought a million more pairs. I wear them at work. They're good for my back. Everything about them is great, you know? But I was like never a cowboy boot guy before that, right?
00:17:18
matt
Right, right.
00:17:18
Joe
So I had them on one day right after I bought them and I was up in my parents' apartment and I had them on with I think like a turtleneck and a tweed jacket and a pair of jeans, right? And my dad's like, wait here! And he goes and he gets this photo album and he takes out this picture of me and I'm like seven years old and I'm wearing exactly the same outfit, right?
00:17:40
Conor Fowler
la
00:17:41
Joe
And I had no memory of it and he goes he goes, you got it in your head about these boots and you like wouldn't shut up about it until your mother and I took you somewhere to buy them. And then he said, he took me to buy them and they were gonna get some like kid boots but I insisted that they be real ones.
00:17:59
Joe
Like I didn't want like the like cheapo toy cowboy boots, they had to be.
00:17:59
matt
Right.
00:18:04
Joe
And um so I guess that happened when I was like seven years old. old
00:18:09
Conor Fowler
That's amazing, that's like, a
00:18:09
Joe
i don't remember it, but I was like I suppose no one's surprised by this but Yeah Yeah
00:18:14
Conor Fowler
cause I just bought a pair and my students who are in West Baltimore were like, why are you wearing cowboy boots? To which I said, because I thought it would be funny. And so they asked me, is this lizard?
00:18:32
Conor Fowler
Is this like a snake? What is this? And yes, in fact, it is lizard. And so one of them, I had a pimp pimples on my neck, and my student said, did you get bitten by a snake?
00:18:46
Joe
but but
00:18:49
Conor Fowler
So I find them really, really, really controversial.
00:18:50
Joe
No, they're great. I mean, like I said, i'm i'm ah I'm a Boston guy, lifelong Boston guy in the same house. I have no business wearing that stuff either, but I love them.
00:18:59
Conor Fowler
They're awesome, though. I like didn't really believe the hype, but like my dad swore by them.
00:19:00
Joe
Yeah.
00:19:04
Conor Fowler
war He wore them with a suit every day.
00:19:07
Joe
Yeah.
00:19:07
Conor Fowler
They're nice. They're comfortable. They are well thought out.
00:19:12
Joe
They certainly are, yes. And I spend at my job, I'm on my feet like all day and it makes a huge difference because they're designed well for that, you know.
00:19:18
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:19:22
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:19:22
Joe
um Plus the kids at work laugh because the place where I work has um concrete floors um and I'm one of the managers and they're like you're they're like, the good thing is we can always hear you coming.
00:19:35
Joe
I'm like, well, what are you doing that you need to hear me coming before I get there?
00:19:35
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:19:39
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:19:40
matt
Right, that's awesome.
00:19:40
Joe
yeah
00:19:44
matt
Yeah, so we're we we briefly got into you know your your blog
The Philosophy of Joe's Blog on Affordable Fashion
00:19:50
matt
days. um what What kind of inspired your you know your initial um posting on BOGspot and and things that you continue to do to this day?
00:20:03
Joe
So the original one had a little bit of ah a little bit of snark to its start, because I don't know if you guys remember, there was there was a blog back then called A Suitable Wardrobe, right?
00:20:15
matt
Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember.
00:20:16
Joe
um Yeah, and in those days, I remember like the the sartorialist, like the original wave sartorialist was a big thing. And I would look at that all the time. And then this this suitable wardrobe guy popped up.
00:20:29
Joe
and don't get me wrong he's got really nice stuff you know it's all very expensive it's all handmade but it used to bug the hell out of me that that that the the tone because back then it was more about writing you know now it's all like you know photos and like little 15 second tiktok style videos or whatever um
00:20:32
matt
Yeah, totally. Right.
00:20:49
Joe
But at the time, it was it was writing, maybe be accompanied by a few photos, right? um And it used to drive me nuts that the tone of this guy's writing um was all, ah it had this vibe where a like, yeah a gentleman dresses like this, and everyone else is a muck savage down in in in the swamp, or you know what I mean?
00:21:06
Conor Fowler
right right and it's like ah well and you wouldn't be getting your winter suit in any less time than nine months i mean yeah yeah
00:21:10
Joe
or Yeah.
00:21:10
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:14
Joe
Right. all of that right and it was called a suitable wardrobe and i was like would to suggest that anything else would be less suitable so that's where the name came from i was just like i'm gonna do what this guy's doing but my whole thing is gonna be like you can't believe how cheap this was it like like yeah
00:21:33
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:34
Conor Fowler
No, dude, and that's the fucking shot. That's like the entire point. And there's like cooking and there's like creative writing. ah You're kind of like triangulating as you're going, like to figure out what you're going to make of this thing.
00:21:48
Conor Fowler
When at the time, people are not really doing this. This is like ah blogging in its infancy.
00:21:52
Joe
I guess, you know, and it wasn't even, it wasn't even like intentional in that way. But, but I guess in the back of my head, the thing about it was um I wasn't seeing anything in not even just about clothing, but anything that suggested that you could be like a cultivated person with like really good taste.
00:22:15
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:22:15
Joe
um and not be a bazillionaire too.
00:22:18
matt
right right
00:22:18
Joe
and And that the two things didn't have to be mutually exclusive, you know?
00:22:19
Conor Fowler
All right. Right.
00:22:22
Joe
um Just that it took more effort on your part if you didn't have mountains of money to just throw at it, you know? um And in the end, um I think what I learned through it and through writing it, what I hope I transferred to some other folks that might have read it, was that um you almost have to be better at it if you don't have money.
00:22:44
matt
Right, right.
00:22:45
Joe
You know what I mean?
00:22:45
matt
yeah yeah
00:22:46
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:22:46
Joe
To really know what you're doing because it's easy if you're you know if if if you live that lifestyle and you can go to whatever great restaurant any night.
00:22:57
Joe
You can order a $400 bottle of wine off the list.
00:22:59
Conor Fowler
You don't have to learn how to cook.
00:23:00
Joe
You can have all your clothes made and like you know go to the trunk show. and what Of course, everything's gonna be nice and wonderful. and you know um But if you have to um Find your way to something like that when the options that are being given to you handily are garbage, you know um That it it's almost like ah more intentional under those circumstances, you know Yeah, and it was just fun fun writing about it.
00:23:19
matt
Right, right.
00:23:26
matt
Yeah. it Yeah.
00:23:28
Conor Fowler
I think it's just wonderful.
00:23:29
Joe
Yeah
00:23:30
Conor Fowler
Like that was not a common ideology. That was like, I don't know. I feel like there was so much talking about like consumption.
00:23:40
Joe
Yeah.
00:23:40
Conor Fowler
And that was always the main point was like, right.
00:23:43
Joe
Luxury brands, all that stuff. You know, fancy sneakers, no matter what like realm you're in.
00:23:48
Conor Fowler
You wrote a haiku.
00:23:49
Joe
Yeah. and um Yeah, it was just, I started doing it and it kind of stuck with it. It was fun after a while, you know. ah But the thing too is I feel like, you know, thrifting is just like the most mainstream thing in the world nowadays.
00:24:06
matt
Right, right.
00:24:06
Joe
But it it but it wasn't back then. it it It just was not, you know.
00:24:11
Conor Fowler
No, it was like look down on Yeah
00:24:11
Joe
ah you know Yeah, like kids would not want to wear stuff to school that their mom found at the thrift store because that was like crappy, you know?
00:24:21
matt
Yeah.
00:24:21
Joe
I was into it because I just I always like old things so I would go to thrift stores because the stuff there would be old and I didn't really care about the stuff that was going on in the moment as much.
00:24:32
Joe
Um, and in fact, it's almost like when I, when I stopped it, uh, years ago, it was because it had become so mainstream that it had kind of lost some of the charm.
00:24:43
Joe
You know what I mean?
00:24:43
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah.
00:24:44
Joe
Like it was just, it wasn't a such a special thing. And it was just, it was, you know, in a complaint, but it was just like, it had become a thing that people do, which was fine, but I didn't feel like, uh,
00:24:52
matt
Right. Right.
00:24:55
Joe
You know, the the the need to sort of write about it in the way that I was had kind of slipped away at that point, you know?
00:25:02
matt
Yeah.
00:25:03
Joe
Yeah.
00:25:04
matt
I feel like you have pivoted, you know, especially coming back to Instagram, like I love the the little reels and things that you do that you're like, Oh, you know, these, this sweater was 699 blah, blah, blah.
00:25:11
Joe
Yeah.
00:25:16
Joe
Mm-hmm.
00:25:17
matt
You know, like, yeah, that I feel like that kind of. has the same, in my opinion, has the same kind of like vibe and feel to it that you had back then, even though it's not long-form riding.
00:25:28
Conor Fowler
yeah it's translated pretty well because it's like about like the thrift of it but it's also about like the sort of diy nature of your approach to it's seemingly everything like i'm pretty sure it was you who said that buying this type of stuff like gives you access to the american dream maybe
00:25:28
Joe
Hmm.
00:25:43
Joe
Yeah.
00:25:53
Joe
Yeah, you know, and it's like, I remember in the in the early days, it was almost like ah ah thrown around as an insult to be like aspirational or whatever, you know.
00:26:05
Conor Fowler
me Right.
00:26:06
Joe
um And then, you know, God, and then and then as the as the early blog thing happens and like the trad guys and the eye gents, um
00:26:15
matt
I did for the worst.
00:26:17
Joe
That became crazy because then they were like, you know, it was unacceptable to wear polo because that was like the aspirational nonsense. And I was just like, I don't care, man. It's, you know, it's got a button down collar, bow tied stuff is nice.
00:26:31
Joe
You know what I mean? Like when I was a kid, polo was like the fancy stuff from the mall. Like everybody wanted it.
00:26:36
matt
Right.
00:26:37
Joe
You know what I mean? Like I was into that too.
00:26:38
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:26:38
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like it becomes like a racially or class coded like fuck off, which is like bad politics.
00:26:40
Joe
Yeah.
00:26:43
Joe
Yeah.
00:26:48
Joe
Yeah, and I mean, you know, I did grow up in Boston. So like, I get like, I know about those like old money. I know the difference between the people who have the old money and the people who don't.
00:27:02
matt
Right.
00:27:03
Conor Fowler
Oh yeah.
00:27:03
Joe
It's been like present in the city that I grew up in, in ah in in a way that's realer than it is in a lot of other places in the country. You know what I mean? i Harvard University is around the corner from where I live.
00:27:11
matt
Totally.
00:27:14
Joe
I know, I get it. You know what I mean?
00:27:16
matt
Yeah.
00:27:16
Joe
like
00:27:16
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:27:17
Joe
and And even Harvard's different now, but that you know, you you can tell if you, you know, and it's not like, um you know, that I was wanted to be those guys or whatever.
00:27:30
Joe
It's just like, you know, they had nice clothes, they eat well, whatever.
00:27:33
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's just nice stuff, right?
00:27:34
Joe
I like the stuff.
00:27:34
Conor Fowler
It's like practical, it's nice.
00:27:35
Joe
You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.
00:27:37
Conor Fowler
I think that people have talked about like the like economical aspect of this style of dressing like wearing a jacket like this you only need to have like two shirts really and a couple of ties and you're fine so they say right right exactly but the point is it's an easy to follow formula
00:27:53
Joe
Yeah. Right. And it never works out that way. It's the exact opposite, you know? um
00:28:02
Joe
Yeah, exactly. and and And then once you've got the the sort of basic tenets of it nailed down, you can do all sorts of wild stuff with it, depending on your own personal inclinations or whatever, you know?
00:28:10
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's very like Venn diagram sort of.
00:28:15
Joe
Yeah.
00:28:18
Joe
Yeah, I'm also fortunate enough to have, um along the way, developed a friendship with Charlie Davidson from the Andover Shop, too.
00:28:26
matt
Oh nice, yeah.
00:28:27
Joe
um you know ah yeah he and i He and I became friends for a few years before he passed away, too. And and his that's like all part of that world, but a completely different thing than some of this other stuff, too.
00:28:41
Joe
you know um
00:28:43
Conor Fowler
How do you mean?
00:28:44
Joe
and it
00:28:44
Conor Fowler
I mean, it's like a different, it's like a different, uh, industry.
00:28:46
Joe
how
00:28:50
Conor Fowler
Right?
00:28:50
Joe
Well, I i mean, it it was it was different with him in that, like, you know, by way of example, you know, we had it's gone now, but there was an old Brooks Brothers store in Boston.
00:28:50
Conor Fowler
Like.
00:29:02
Joe
Right. And if I'm not mistaken, it was the second location of Perks Brothers after Madison Avenue in New York.
00:29:08
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:29:10
Joe
So we had that, right? um J Press, in the old days when J Press was only three stores, one of them was in Cambridge, you know? um And then there was the, and those are kind of like stalwarts of a certain thing.
00:29:25
Joe
um And then there was the Andover Shop, which sort of got looped into that, but there was it's different. Andover Shop had like a sort of a i ah style and, for lack of a better term, a zestiness about it that the others didn't. you know um it was It's hard to put into words. you know because if I don't know if you had ever been in the old Andover Shop, but it was very much like just what you'd think it was you know it was like stuffed to the gills it had thick carpet on the floor that one whole wall was just rolls of tweed fabric um but it just felt different you know what i mean um they yeah yeah
00:30:03
Conor Fowler
yeah it's well that's like when i mean it's a different like It's sort of more hands-on, like I haven't been there, but I do think I can picture it, right? And it seems more ah blue collar, if that's possible.
00:30:17
Joe
I don't even know if that's the thing. it's That's not even the right word. It's just that the guys that shopped there shopped there because the other stores weren't quite doing it for them.
00:30:27
matt
right right
00:30:27
Joe
And the differences are subtle, but they're definitely there. Do you know what I mean? like um You know, for example, going back to all the nonsense with the eye gents and everything, right?
00:30:38
matt
blue
00:30:39
Joe
um All those guys who would die before they would put on a pair of pleated pants, right? You'd go into the Andover shop and they didn't sell flat front pants.
00:30:49
Joe
They only sold pleated pants for a time, you know?
00:30:50
matt
Right, right.
00:30:53
Conor Fowler
Yeah, so that's like the Uber trad.
00:30:53
matt
Right, yeah.
00:30:55
Joe
Deep forward pleated pants with a button-down collar shirt. You know what I mean? Like all these like rules that you were you were supposed to follow and they were never applicable there. Do you know what I mean?
00:31:05
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:31:05
Joe
And I'd be like, well this guy is like the king-held guy of them all and he's not doing any of that stuff that you guys are getting so wound up about. so You know, um it's I hesitate to use the word fearlessness, but there was just this like, I'm gonna do it because it's cool, and I'm gonna be like the king of this stuff, but I'm not gonna follow any of the rules that the other people are beholden to.
00:31:29
matt
Right, right.
00:31:29
Joe
You know, that was what was so great about that place, and you couldn't deny it, so.
00:31:34
matt
Yeah, for for me, you know, just I've never been to the Andover shop or O'Connell's, but those two shops are like, you know, they're they're both legendary because they they kind of like, I don't know, they kind of gave a finger to the more like stuffy Jay Presses and Brooks Brothers of the world.
00:31:40
Joe
Yeah.
00:31:52
matt
Like I've never been in a Brooks Brothers and had an enjoy ah an enjoyable shopping experience, but like
00:31:54
Joe
right right there's a reason why all the jazz musicians bought their clothes from charlie instead of jay press which is literally a block away in those days you know yeah in a weird way yeah
00:32:01
matt
Right, right, exactly.
00:32:06
matt
Yeah, yeah it's it's almost like a punk rock, like, suiting store in a lot of ways. Yeah.
00:32:14
Conor Fowler
It's, a I don't, I swear there's a word for this, but I can't reach it at the moment. I don't want to put you on the
The Timelessness of Ivy Style
00:32:23
Conor Fowler
spot. I wanted to ask about Ivy style, or at least your, ah if you have a little like, not like a little definition, but like, what do you think about Ivy style becoming, I don't know, ascendant again, or like, has it ever really left?
00:32:25
Joe
Mmhmm.
00:32:41
Joe
I mean, that that's a tough question to answer, again, because because of where I am. it's like It never went away in Boston.
00:32:46
Conor Fowler
Right. And then it's never left.
00:32:48
Joe
um and And what's weird about it is, again, with all these rules and all this stuff that you're supposed to know and whatever, is that my experience of it had always been like,
00:32:57
matt
I'm going to do it.
00:32:59
Joe
Again, like I said, there are those old types that grew up this way Sailing and going to golf courses and all this stuff right and I did not at all um but this in but Regardless of that like when I was a kid like if if you had to go To something dressy, you know the mom that's how the moms would dress the kids in Boston you know what I mean like if if it was like um
00:33:07
matt
Right.
00:33:27
Joe
you know if you had to go to someone's wedding your mom would go buy you khaki pants and a navy blue blazer and a pair of penny loafers and a striped tie because that was just like what the nice clothes looked like around here so the weird thing about it to me is like it's um
00:33:28
matt
yeah
00:33:39
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:33:43
Joe
no one thought twice about it for all those years when i was growing up that's just like what the nice that's just well yeah i mean it you know the school uniforms kind of hue to that formula everything um and you know i i feel like part of it is um
00:33:47
Conor Fowler
Because bizarrely, it's the uniform, right? It's the Boston uniform.
00:33:55
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:34:02
Joe
that it's a sort of it's a set of loose rules that you can learn as a child that don't have to change your whole life.
00:34:07
Conor Fowler
Mm hmm.
00:34:09
Joe
you know So I think that's why it kind of comes and goes and never goes away and why it sort of always looks good because the intention of it always was just like, just know about these things and you'll be all set forever.
00:34:21
matt
Right.
00:34:23
Joe
You know what I mean?
00:34:24
matt
I mean, and it's in its own way, too, like Ivy style, trad, whatever the fuck you want to call it, it is a uniform in a lot of ways.
00:34:24
Joe
and
00:34:32
Joe
Yeah, for sure.
00:34:32
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:34:33
matt
You know, think about the the man in the gray flannel suit and that kind of shit from back in the day, like that.
00:34:38
Conor Fowler
One too, like it's military.
00:34:39
matt
that Yeah, yeah. I mean, ah a lot of I feel like probably a lot of those businessmen in the heyday of, you know, mid-century had done some time in the military, and you know like or they went to a school that had a uniform, so it was like you were almost predisposed to so enjoy it.
00:35:01
Joe
Yeah, and and and it's and it's um it's a particular style that suits almost everybody.
00:35:07
matt
Right, yeah, totally, totally.
00:35:10
Joe
Skinny guys, fat guys, tall guys, short. If you put it on, it it's it's fine. You know what I mean?
00:35:16
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:16
Joe
and And there's not a lot of things that you can say that about.
00:35:16
matt
well
00:35:18
Joe
you know
00:35:19
matt
Yeah, yeah, like a shot perfecto doesn't look good on everyone.
00:35:19
Joe
so
00:35:24
Joe
No, of course not.
00:35:25
matt
But ah ah a blazer or a sport coat and a pair of well-fitted trousers, you know once you figure out how bad held that you know style works for your body and like what you need to alter, et cetera, like it it just looks, for lack of a better word, timeless.
00:35:25
Joe
you know
00:35:43
matt
And I hate that fucking phrase, but it's cut it's very true.
00:35:45
Joe
Yeah, no, of course, you know? Yeah, and then all you know all these people who still sort of like get a charge out of ragging on Polo and Ralph Lauren, I'm like, the reason that guy is as successful as he was is that, is because he's dealing in that um in a very distinct way that's got some more flash to it than like the real old school stuff, but that's why it works, that's why people like it, you know?
00:35:59
matt
Right.
00:36:12
Conor Fowler
I remember hearing people shitting on Ralph like, I don't know, I'd say years ago. But like, at this point, it's like, I don't know, I feel like almost everyone is like, happy to wear it, frankly.
00:36:24
Conor Fowler
And like, yeah, yeah.
00:36:24
Joe
Oh no, now it's like the hottest thing.
00:36:24
matt
ah
00:36:26
Joe
You know why? This is actually, um I saw you interviewed John Tinsett a while back, so I know him well.
00:36:32
matt
Yeah, but wait, are you friends are you friends with John?
00:36:34
Conor Fowler
guys
00:36:36
Joe
Yes, yes. and One thing he said to me that I'll never forget is we were talking about thrift stores and he said the thing about the thrift stores is the best stuff that you can find in the thrift stores is always from about 30 years previous, right?
00:36:48
matt
Right.
00:36:49
Joe
So like when I was a kid, it was awesome because there was all these clothes from the 60s and the thrift stores, you know what I mean?
00:36:55
matt
Right.
00:36:56
Joe
um And then there was a rough period where there was nothing because the the sort of casual Friday era had caught up to that, you know?
00:37:03
matt
yeah
00:37:04
Joe
um But now everything from 30 years ago is like polo in the 90s when it was like, and it's like raging best.
00:37:08
matt
Yeah.
00:37:13
Joe
so So that's why it's the hot thing because there's a lot of it around from like a lot of the good stuff from back then, you know, and it was a mass production brand.
00:37:13
matt
Oh, 100%. All right.
00:37:23
Joe
So there's a ton of it, but even still it was good, you know?
00:37:25
matt
Yeah, hey and and a lot.
00:37:26
Conor Fowler
It's egalitarian, as we had discussed, like...
00:37:27
Joe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:29
matt
Like I don't think people realize too, a lot of them like most sought after Volvo, especially the like more streetwear oriented ship, like Snow Beach or stadium stuff that sold so badly in store that it all went to outlets.
00:37:37
Joe
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:43
matt
And so, yeah.
00:37:44
Joe
Yeah, which is why it's so hard to find now because everybody wasn't wearing it when it was new, you know?
00:37:46
matt
Right.
00:37:48
matt
Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
00:37:51
Joe
But that whole thing, it would just kill me. I'd be like, since since when is like, um why is aspiration cast in a negative
Aspiration in Fashion and Personal Style
00:38:00
Joe
light? Like why, you know,
00:38:00
Conor Fowler
because it's try Because it's try hard, right? It's like you can't be aspiring to do something and be cool if you are a white guy, I would say.
00:38:08
Joe
Yeah, but it's probably like the it's it's probably not the right word for it though. Do you know what I mean?
00:38:13
Conor Fowler
No, it's not the right word for it, but it is like people, ah it's like striving, you know?
00:38:14
Joe
um Yeah Right,
00:38:19
Conor Fowler
People are like, people don't like that, even if it's even if it's fine. Even if you want to become an astronaut, you know, people don't like that.
00:38:26
Joe
right know And I think maybe people are over that a little bit now but that that did crack me up because I mean not to sound like the old guy about it, but like ah with with With with all the old polo stuff being all the thing right now And it's I had my moment of being like yeah, I always knew that was the good stuff back when you all were shitting on it You know what?
00:38:31
Conor Fowler
Definitely.
00:38:46
matt
yeah
00:38:48
Joe
I mean like I was all about the forward pleated pants I used to have to I don't know if you guys remember but um actually, um Zach DeLuca, who's also a good friend of mine.
00:38:59
matt
yeah
00:38:59
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:39:00
Joe
Back in those days, we used to um we would post stuff whenever we had outfits that had pleated pants on them. um The tagline at the end of the write-up would be, brought to you by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Pleads.
00:39:15
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:39:16
Joe
And I just be like, you know, and and I remember being like, you know, I'm kind of a bigger dude. These pants fit me better. You know, like it's okay. No one's going to die here.
00:39:27
matt
Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:39:28
Conor Fowler
My most, my most interacted with Instagram thing ever was asking on former guest of the show, Cleo's post, are those forward policing your pants? Are you just happy to see me?
00:39:41
Joe
Yeah. yes
00:39:44
matt
Nice.
00:39:45
Conor Fowler
Haha.
00:39:45
matt
Ha ha.
00:39:46
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I like that one. I like that one. I'm still getting likes from that joke.
00:39:47
matt
Yeah. Nah, it's good on you, Connor.
00:39:50
Conor Fowler
Haha.
00:39:52
Joe
But, you know, it it it it comes and it goes.
00:39:53
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I gotta do something.
00:39:55
Joe
And, um you know, I think that that the takeaway from all of that is, um you know, you get informed from a lot of ah a lot of sources and a lot of outside influences, right?
00:40:04
matt
Totally.
00:40:07
Joe
um But the moment is the moment that you're looking for is when that all gels, like all those bits gel for you in whatever way they do, you know?
00:40:14
matt
total
00:40:14
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:40:19
Joe
um And so to to hue to one thing or the other with like a razor sharp line kind of doesn't make any sense, you know?
00:40:29
matt
Totally.
00:40:30
Joe
Because that's not you, you've learned that thing, you know? But like, you know, and there's, yeah.
00:40:33
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:40:35
matt
Yeah, its it I think a ah big thing about you know having a borderline obsessive interest in clothing is that like you can take from all of the influences and and mix it together in your own way.
00:40:51
matt
you know Yeah, oh, it's 100%.
00:40:51
Joe
And if you don't, you'll get bored. That's the thing. I feel like people that are into this, it's like, and you know, who who who really has to wear a suit to work anymore?
00:41:02
Joe
You know, very very few people.
00:41:02
matt
yeah
00:41:04
Joe
um And for the most part, they're they're very high end jobs, right?
00:41:09
matt
Yeah.
00:41:10
Joe
So I feel like we've come to a point in history where like, if you to some degree, if you're going to do this at all, it's just because you're enjoying it.
00:41:18
matt
Yeah.
00:41:18
Joe
right it's because you want to um so just do what you want to you know what i mean like play around with it have some more fun with it um yeah yeah i mean i work
00:41:24
matt
Right.
00:41:27
matt
Yeah, the fun is the key is the most is the best part about
00:41:32
Conor Fowler
That's why I bought the cowboy boots. I mean...
00:41:34
Joe
I mean, I could literally go to my job in the same pair of jeans and the same sweatshirt every day and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to to the performance of my job, nor would anyone, I would say nor would anyone even notice, except people would notice because it was me doing it and all of a sudden they'd think something was wrong.
00:41:44
matt
Right.
00:41:49
matt
Yeah, right, right.
00:41:50
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:41:51
Joe
But like, you know, my point being like, I could survive with two pairs of pants and a couple of sweatshirts just fine. you know Anyone could. um When you don't, it's it's a choice.
00:42:04
Joe
um And it's a fun choice, you know?
00:42:06
Conor Fowler
It's creative expression, I think.
00:42:06
Joe
So, exactly.
00:42:08
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:08
Conor Fowler
You know, it's like the first creative act of my day is like, what am I gonna wear?
00:42:13
matt
Yeah.
00:42:13
Joe
Sure.
00:42:13
matt
I mean, I think this is a point that Derek Guy makes often. it's like um you know there's you got to have You have to have fun with what you're doing and like you have to care ah and appreciate the like artistic nature of putting a a fit together.
00:42:34
Joe
Of course, yeah. You know, and I mean, nowadays it's like, you gotta, I don't want to get all political about it, but it's like, it any any any little joy you can have in your life that's not harming others, I see no reason not to indulge in it to the fullest, you know?
00:42:41
matt
Get political.
00:42:50
matt
Same here, 100% agree.
00:42:52
Joe
Because there's a lot of crap around to that to that that's not bringing people a lot of joy right now. So, you know, find it where you can, right?
00:43:01
matt
Yeah.
00:43:03
Conor Fowler
But even that is kind of like you were talking about earlier that like push and pull between having a specific label for every type of outfit as is popular in some circles on the internet and like just not talking about it at all.
00:43:14
Joe
Mm-hmm Yeah
00:43:20
Conor Fowler
You know, it's like, there's a there's a gray area there that I think it would be good for people to become more comfortable with, I guess.
00:43:27
Joe
e Yeah, and some of it comes with, you know, the the the wisdom of age, for lack of a better term. I mean, I was as guilty as anybody in the old days about but getting incensed because I saw some college kid wear a pajama pants at the liquor store or something like that.
00:43:43
Joe
You know what I mean? And like, and it's so disrespectful and blah, blah, blah.
00:43:44
matt
right right yeah but yeah there's there's a lot of a lot of things that piss me off all the fucking time is what what someone else is wearing is really not one of
00:43:47
Joe
And I don't care anymore. You know what I mean? It really does not matter, you know? ah Yeah.
00:43:58
Joe
yeah that yeah because you're right yeah that's probably yeah yeah there there are moments yeah yeah
00:44:02
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I just can't imagine getting pissed about it anymore. like
00:44:05
matt
Yeah, the only time I get, the only time I get pissed is when someone's wearing like quote unquote performance shit at the grocery store and I can smell them from 10 feet away because they just left the gym or the golf course or whatever.
00:44:18
Conor Fowler
Nazi regalia, also not also a no-no.
00:44:19
matt
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Any, yeah, well, I'm just, I'm talking about normal ass people, not, not fucking racist bit like assholes.
00:44:24
Conor Fowler
Any type of regalia, we don't want it.
00:44:31
Joe
Yeah.
00:44:31
matt
So, uh,
00:44:32
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:44:33
matt
So yeah this is a ah something I feel like is kind of at the core of of our show is the connection between like subculture and clothing.
Punk Roots and Rebellion Through Tailored Clothing
00:44:45
matt
um It seemingly, especially Taylor clothing. You mentioned Joe's Drummer and I kind of, I've always kind of picked up on the vibe that you're probably like in the punk or something back in the day.
00:44:57
Joe
Oh, for sure. I i played in bands for years.
00:44:59
matt
Especially being in Boston.
00:45:03
Joe
I was big into it, especially after high school. I was big, big into that stuff.
00:45:08
matt
That's awesome.
00:45:08
Joe
I still am, always will be, but I mean, um you know it it predates ah widespread internet use. So there are much less photographs of it, but I was all about sewn tight pants and studded belts and big boots and crazy haircuts and all that stuff for a long time.
00:45:17
matt
Yeah.
00:45:27
matt
Totally.
00:45:29
Joe
you know um But it's like you said, it's the same at its core, it's the same attitude. you know
00:45:36
matt
yeah definitely
00:45:37
Joe
um
00:45:38
matt
Definitely.
00:45:39
Joe
you know because there was a time when you know wearing a suit was was as glaring a thing as that might have been in the 1980s.
00:45:50
matt
Right.
00:45:50
Joe
um So yeah, never been one to just go along with it, I guess.
00:45:53
matt
Yeah.
00:45:56
Joe
but Yeah.
00:45:56
matt
Nice. Nice.
00:45:57
Conor Fowler
Well, and I think it's a little bit about like wearing a tie when it isn't called for is like the the rebellion, right?
00:45:58
matt
Yeah.
00:46:04
Joe
yeah
00:46:05
Conor Fowler
I mean, that's like, i ah you can't fire me because I quit sort of mentality.
00:46:11
matt
Well, I mean, even going back to like the Beatles and Stones, you know, like that, that and and earlier, like the jazz guys of the 40s and 50s, like Taylor clothing, you know, did not, if you were a musician doing something that was like outside of the quote unquote norm at the time, like wearing Taylor clothing did not make you seem like, you know, your average Joe.
00:46:11
Joe
Right, right.
00:46:30
Joe
yeah
00:46:38
matt
It was like, It was kind of an act of rebellion because of the art you were making.
00:46:41
Joe
Well, yeah, and the and the other thing that I didn't realize when I was younger that I did come to learn is that even within the realm of tailored clothing, there are differences.
00:46:44
matt
the
00:46:50
matt
Right, right.
00:46:50
Joe
you know A zoot suit is not the same as what a guy was wearing to the bank in the 1920s.
00:46:56
matt
Totally, totally.
00:46:57
Joe
Do you know what I mean? like They're both suits, but there was a time I didn't realize that difference. you know um you You look at like um some of those suits that like jazz musicians were wearing in the 40s with that like super exaggerated shoulders and huge lapels and like big giant pants.
00:47:12
matt
Yeah.
00:47:15
Joe
and i mean Of course, everything was kind of full cut, but there's a difference between like a musician in a nightclub and a guy working in an office somewhere.
00:47:25
matt
Right, right, right.
00:47:25
Joe
you know um Yeah, I mean, even, I can remember the moment when, um you know, I can remember being younger and um you'd hear all this stuff about how um how how shocking everybody thought the Beatles were, like when they came to America, right?
00:47:27
matt
Yeah.
00:47:41
Joe
And I can remember being young and thinking like, these guys wore suits on stage. Like, what was everybody so scared of?
00:47:47
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:47:47
Joe
And then one day realizing that because like stove types, shark skin pants and pointy boots and like long hair, is It's a suit, but it's, you know what I mean?
00:47:54
matt
Right.
00:47:57
Joe
But it's like, there's an aggression, to that it it has an aggressive vibe to it that like other people's clothes didn't, you know?
00:47:57
matt
Yeah. 100%. It's not the same.
00:48:06
Joe
um Or those weird suits that they would have that would button up and have like a shirt collar on them instead of like a regular lapel or whatever.
00:48:12
matt
Oh yeah, yeah, like like bri yeah Brian Jones wore Nehru collar shit.
00:48:13
Joe
You know, yeah.
00:48:17
matt
I guess all the stones did, but, you know, like...
00:48:18
Joe
Yeah. bringing it back to my grandfather. My dad told me one time um when he was like, so my dad would have been 16 in 1966, he tried to get my grandfather to make him a suit with no lapels because he saw the Beatles wearing it on TV and my grandfather refused to do it.
00:48:34
Conor Fowler
ah Wow.
00:48:38
matt
ah That's fantastic!
00:48:40
Joe
He's like, no, he's like, I'm not putting my name on anything like that.
00:48:45
matt
Yeah, yeah. I mean, ah no no shade whatsoever to that at all.
00:48:46
Joe
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:50
Joe
Yeah.
00:48:51
matt
Also, going back to zoot suits, I don't think I've ever said this on this um the program, but I definitely bought like the world's shittiest quality zoot suit ah off eBay for my junior prom.
00:49:01
Joe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:05
matt
Because like, um yeah, that was, you know, that was during the swing revival and all that shit, so.
00:49:05
Conor Fowler
Nah.
00:49:11
Joe
Oh, I tried to fake it once. I used to go and um I would try to find i would just find regular suits. like I would try to find double-breasted suits that were like really long for someone like much taller than me and then just have the pants hemmed to the right length so they'd have a wicked high waist and really long coat.
00:49:22
matt
Right.
00:49:23
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:49:23
matt
Right.
00:49:30
Joe
But it wasn't really that kind of a suit, you know what I mean?
00:49:32
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:32
Joe
I was just trying to like fake it somehow.
00:49:34
matt
e You kind of end up looking more like David Byrne than like an actual, you know, jazz musician.
00:49:35
Joe
Yeah.
00:49:40
Joe
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:41
Conor Fowler
my my example of that is seeing portugal the man play i think i talked about this on the show before and like the guy had like a a hoodie under his corduroy maybe tweed jacket i thought it was so fucking cool and then i saw one like at coals or something that was like incorporated and so i bought and i never wore it
00:50:01
matt
yeah yeah not
00:50:06
Conor Fowler
i didn't even wear it one time because i was like when i got it home i was like what the fuck this is like this is like not real this is like a fake this is like a trojan horse don't think at all
00:50:08
Joe
yeah
00:50:18
Joe
How many times did you put it on and take it off before you left the house? Did you even try here?
00:50:25
Conor Fowler
No, I mean, I must have or maybe my dad or maybe my dad gave it to me.
00:50:25
Joe
okay
00:50:26
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:29
Conor Fowler
I can't remember exactly how I came to have this thing, but I like remember the tag and like I definitely didn't wear it because it's like you can't have something phony like that.
00:50:39
Joe
No, it's no good. You can get away with it when you're like 14 and you don't know anything.
00:50:44
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:50:45
Joe
And you really, really mean it. There's something to be said for that too.
00:50:46
Conor Fowler
Oh, I was like 17, but even still like you can't it's it's setting off the wrong kind of alarm.
00:50:48
Joe
You know, yeah.
00:50:54
Joe
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:55
matt
Yeah, con Connor, Joe, I feel like you and I are probably around the same age. Connor is a few years younger, so you know he he got some of the bullshit that we had already worked past, sadly.
00:51:07
Joe
Yeah.
00:51:09
Conor Fowler
Yeah. um I keep coming sort of circling around to this. um you You have come up on this show like a number of times out of a lot of different people's mouths.
DIY Fashion Philosophy
00:51:25
Conor Fowler
You have this ideology about clothing.
00:51:29
Conor Fowler
Somehow you're buying the coolest shit for cheap and you sort of emphasize that this stuff isn't really worth it anything, right? It's like what it's worth. What is ascribed to it?
00:51:39
Conor Fowler
Which is maybe true with a lot of stuff, but is I think even more true about clothing um So there's some kind of like
00:51:41
Joe
Sure.
00:51:50
Conor Fowler
punk DIY aesthetic like that is somehow attached to tailored clothing that is ah nebulously understood on this program. And we were curious if you had any um insight about that.
00:52:03
Conor Fowler
I mean, as the Joe Stromer earlier.
00:52:03
Joe
I think that the the biggest part of it with tailored clothing, um it may be a little less true today, but like especially if you're buying old vintage stuff, um is that um there is absolutely no reason to have any adherence whatsoever to brand names.
00:52:21
matt
Right.
00:52:21
Joe
Like there there are ones that like it's it's good to know the ones that you like um because You know like Brooks Brothers clothes have a shape to them polo stuff has a look to it Whatever you like it it works for you that all of that um And you can look for it.
00:52:22
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:52:37
Joe
You can buy it. You know, it's gonna be good if it's from something like that um but um but the real thing is to just know the good stuff and Because especially if you're buying vintage, like backlin like you find like the most gorgeous jacket in the world and the only tag on the inside is the name of some department store that closed 40 years ago in Pittsburgh or something that no one's ever heard of.
00:53:00
Conor Fowler
yeah Yeah, shout out Pittsburgh.
00:53:00
Joe
Do you know what I mean? like
00:53:02
Conor Fowler
Yeah, i' got one I got one just a few months ago.
00:53:02
Joe
just like
00:53:05
Joe
But you know what I mean? I'm like, that's the trick because the brand name stuff, especially nowadays, we're like less of it's in the thrift stores and more of it's online.
00:53:07
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:53:14
Joe
Um, so it's being flipped. So people are buying stuff and selling stuff. Um, and you know, and I do that too. I'm not going to disparage that, you know? Um, but like, if you're looking for the bargains, you got to like know.
00:53:27
Joe
that that that like there's a lot of good stuff out there that you never heard of.
00:53:31
matt
Right, right.
00:53:31
Joe
Don't even look at that. just like It's either good or it's not. You know what I mean? like um Even stuff like...
00:53:37
Conor Fowler
And that's really the like sort of institutional knowledge right like that you have accumulated.
00:53:41
Joe
Yeah. Yeah, and even to some degree, it's like um I could say the same thing about stuff that's like made in the USA, right? You know, you find old stuff made in the USA, it's going to be good.
00:53:49
Conor Fowler
e
00:53:52
Joe
That doesn't necessarily mean that everything you come across in a thrift store that was made in China is necessarily a piece of crap, you know?
00:53:59
matt
Totally, totally.
00:54:00
Joe
the the thing is you gotta look at the thing and it either is or is not junk and you need to know how to tell the difference with without that kind of like shading your decision you know um i don't know if you saw like you know it i it took me a long time to come around to doing reels i still feel like an idiot dancing around in front of the phone
00:54:05
matt
Yeah.
00:54:19
matt
Oh yeah, don't we all, don't we all?
00:54:21
Conor Fowler
yeah dude right right
00:54:22
Joe
But you know, it's the way the wind is blowing and whatever. um But in a couple of the ones I did, like um this this sweater I have on today, and a couple of others that I have, I have never in my life owned a shaggy dog sweater from J-press, right?
00:54:36
matt
Right.
00:54:36
Joe
did This but so every time I put one of these like fuzzy Shetland sweaters on that I have that's really nice that I got for like four bucks in a thrift store um In the videos.
00:54:46
Joe
I just call it not a shaggy dog four dollars, you know like but Yeah
00:54:48
matt
Yeah, yeah. And the the funniest part is that like any of these sweaters probably were made in the same exact factor or by the same exact people.
00:54:58
Joe
It's the same thing. That's what I mean.
00:54:59
matt
Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:55:00
Joe
It's the same thing. you know it yeah that that's I'm not looking for, I mean, like I said, if you find one that says shaggy dog and it's five bucks and it's your size, score you win.
00:55:10
matt
Right. really Yeah, yeah, it was it was made by har Harley for whatever fucking department store or brand, you know.
00:55:11
Joe
um But you find the other one that says like, um like um you know just says country club or something stupid in the tag.
00:55:21
Joe
Yeah. like yeah
00:55:26
Joe
Right. you know and and and And the other part of that, too, I think, is um you know it's it's it's not the shaggy dog itself that's cool. It's like, what is it about it that's cool?
00:55:39
Joe
Not just that it's it's a sweater from J Press. It's the whole thing. You know what I mean?
00:55:43
matt
Yeah, think so too.
00:55:44
Joe
So like that's not what you're buying. You're buying the all of it, not just like that little piece. um And i think I think more people know that nowadays, which is cool.
00:55:55
matt
Yeah, I mean, like i did were you a style forward member?
00:55:55
Joe
you know
00:55:58
matt
I can't ah can't recall.
00:56:01
Joe
Uh, sort of. i never I never got that into it. I was on there in the beginning, but, um yeah I mean, even nowadays, it's like, I've always kind of just stick to one platform, you know?
00:56:11
matt
Yeah, I gotcha, I gotcha.
00:56:12
Joe
I know, like, the We Johns guys invited me to. they They have, like, a bunch of stuff going on on Discord. And I signed up for it, but I barely have a check-in. I don't think I've ever posted anything, but...
00:56:23
matt
Yeah, I don't understand no no shade Yeah, no shade to anyone I i like once once like MFA on reddit and that shit started like I I just kind of never understood how it worked and discord is about the same for me like Yeah yeah
00:56:23
Conor Fowler
it's too much man, it's too too much reading up is a sin it's too much to keep up with
00:56:28
Joe
I'm just...
00:56:34
Joe
who
00:56:40
Joe
Yeah, I just, I mean, I'm i'm too old for that. yeah I mean, that's the wrong thing to say, but like, I can't handle more than one platform at a time, you know, and these days, it's like Instagram, I know how it works.
00:56:49
matt
Yeah, I feel it. I feel it.
00:56:55
Joe
ah And it's easy. and And that's fine, you know, and I'm not
00:56:57
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:58
Conor Fowler
Well, guess what? You're on Zencaster and Instagram. So look at that, tandem platforms even.
00:57:01
Joe
Of course, yeah.
00:57:05
Joe
You know, it was Facebook for a time. It was it was blogger before that.
00:57:10
matt
Right.
00:57:10
Joe
um You know, interestingly enough, I just remember this is kind of a little off topic, but back when I was, um I was also selling a lot of clothes online too for some years when my kids were little, right?
00:57:22
Joe
I had like an online store. um and affordable wardrobe. I actually had this place that I used to rent out um that was open as a shop on the weekends, right?
00:57:33
matt
um shit I did not know this
00:57:35
Joe
And um yeah, for years, because because it had got to the point I was selling clothes online so much that I just rented this place to have somewhere to do it so that the stuff wasn't all over my house all the time.
00:57:46
Joe
um So I would like go down there during the week to take photos and post stuff online and run to the post office with stuff that had sold and whatever. um But because it was in a place that was zoned for retail, I would open it up on the weekends.
00:57:59
Joe
And at the time, I yeah yeah i had i got like Twitter and um Tumblr, some of the others, as like a business move, just so that I had like a presence kind of across the ones that were happening in the moment, right?
00:58:09
matt
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:58:15
Conor Fowler
Yeah, if you succeed, you want to have the Twitter account, you know?
00:58:15
Joe
and
00:58:18
Joe
And to this day, I still don't know why, but Twitter banned me completely in 2015.
00:58:25
matt
Wait, what?
00:58:27
Joe
And I have no idea why. I've never, I can't, people send me links to stuff on Twitter and X, it won't let me see them.
00:58:34
matt
Yeah, right.
00:58:34
Joe
I was like hard-banned like 10 years ago for some reason.
00:58:39
Conor Fowler
Well, you missed the platform dying almost completely.
00:58:40
matt
ah
00:58:43
Conor Fowler
so
00:58:43
Joe
no i don't think it only comes up because uh... you know now it's like a dead thing or whatever but for years you know friends of mine would like text me links to something they saw on twitter i don't know i can't see that do it they're like why not i'm like because i don't know i'm like i'm like public enemy number one over at twitter and i it's weird i hardly ever used it i well i know it's it's like a funny thing and i still to this day remember the last thing i posted there was um...
00:58:58
Conor Fowler
There.
00:59:00
matt
Honestly, what that's a badge of honor.
00:59:10
Joe
We had had like some kind of like disaster weather in Massachusetts, right? Like some huge storm, a bunch of houses at the coast got like washed into the sea or you know, something like that, right?
00:59:21
Conor Fowler
see Sure.
00:59:22
Joe
And it was when Deval Patrick was the governor, right? And I reposted an article from the Boston Globe about how a politician should dress to visit a disaster area.
00:59:35
Joe
that That was, and it was a Boston Globe, and it you know it was like, here's Deval Patrick. He's wearing a windbreaker and a pair of sneakers, you see? Because it's a disaster, and it's raining. You know? like
00:59:45
matt
right
00:59:45
Conor Fowler
that's That's the fucking news media these days though, I mean.
00:59:46
Joe
and it It was just so weird.
00:59:48
matt
Right.
00:59:49
Joe
I didn't say anything about it. I just reposted it.
00:59:54
Conor Fowler
And that was all over.
00:59:55
Joe
you know This was way before Donald Trump threw the toilet paper at the people in Puerto Rico or any of that.
01:00:02
matt
Right, right.
01:00:02
Joe
you know like like It couldn't have been that. you know like Yeah.
01:00:05
matt
ah Yeah, so, so strange.
01:00:08
Conor Fowler
They don't want you to win.
01:00:09
matt
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:10
Joe
Yeah.
01:00:10
matt
An affordable wardrobe going viral was against ah the ruling class's wishes.
01:00:10
Conor Fowler
you
01:00:15
Joe
um viral I suppose whatever yeah Yeah, I guess I guess not you know But you know it's
01:00:18
Conor Fowler
Well cause it's guys listen, it's a thrifty it's a thrifty approach and they don't want that. They want you to pay retail. But we're here to tell you, don't pay retail.
01:00:26
matt
Don't pay retail. Pay pe retail from small companies. Pay retail from good companies.
01:00:34
Joe
But it's funny because um because the reason I stopped selling clothes so much and closed that thing down um was because when I started, like no one was doing it.
01:00:44
Joe
And then by the end, the whole blog thing had happened and all these other guys had come up.
01:00:48
matt
Right.
01:00:50
Joe
And it got to the point where all these little thrift stores that I would visit and find stuff, I used to joke with Zach about it because he was doing it at the same time too. I'd be like, yeah, you know you come to some Salvation Army in the middle of nowhere and you go back in the men's department and there's a guy back there with a barber jacket and a beard.
01:01:06
Joe
I just turn around and leave.
01:01:07
matt
a Yeah.
01:01:08
Joe
it's already I'm already too late. you know like Like that guy didn't used to be there five years ago when I would show up to these places.
01:01:15
matt
Man, and say as a person that does vintage full-time, like that is, yeah, I share this sentiment.
01:01:16
Joe
you know
01:01:24
Joe
yeah And it was like a bittersweet thing. I was like, i so I suppose I feel some responsibility for having brought this about since I went online and like made it my mission to tell everybody, you know?
01:01:31
Conor Fowler
No, dude, you tried to beat you tried to be honest and good about it.
01:01:32
matt
I mean, it, well, and honestly, in my opinion, people have been selling secondhand shit, whether it be antique or vintage, long before we were alive.
01:01:41
Joe
Yeah.
01:01:44
matt
and that will continue long before or long after we're dead. So.
01:01:49
Conor Fowler
Well, maybe, I mean, i this is not what I'm seeing in my neck of the woods. I'm seeing like Crofton Barrow and Goodfellow only, right?
01:01:57
matt
Oh, yeah, yeah, 100 percent.
01:01:58
Joe
Yeah.
01:01:59
Conor Fowler
Which, now, how is it happening that way?
01:01:59
matt
Well, I mean, it like.
01:02:02
Conor Fowler
and It doesn't really matter, but effectively, that's what's happening.
01:02:04
matt
Well.
01:02:04
Joe
Well, it it is tough.
01:02:07
Conor Fowler
They're new with tags.
01:02:08
Joe
Even up here even up here in Boston. um the stores are not what they used to be. um And I spend a lot more time buying stuff on eBay or trading with people online or whatever, um spending more for it, still getting things cheaper than their value or worth or whatever.
01:02:23
matt
right totally yeah
01:02:25
Joe
But but it's not, you know, I do still enjoy the clothes, but I kind of miss um the hunting used to be a lot more fun.
Thrift Store Quality Decline and Online Shift
01:02:33
Joe
um You know,
01:02:33
matt
yeah for sure when I go into five thrifts in a day and I walk out with three things I'm like great this is yeah yeah like they're they were three dollars and I was like this is cool enough to buy for three bucks but you know like that I think going back to a point you made earlier like
01:02:39
Joe
Three things and two of them are kind of just okay, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
01:02:53
matt
um not a A lot of finding the you know thrifting and and secondhand shit in general is kind of like gold mining.
01:03:03
Joe
Yeah.
01:03:03
matt
But you know when you when you have the knowledge and the experience that you can like touch something or see something on the rack and be like, okay, this is going to be good. And then it is good, is is like revolutionary.
01:03:16
matt
like you Not everyone is that way.
01:03:19
Joe
Yeah, yeah. And you know, and I guess, you know, I wish it was still like it was, but I suppose I'm happy to have been a part of like making more people aware of it, you know?
01:03:24
matt
Yeah, me too, me too.
01:03:32
matt
Right, right, and and I don't think that it's a bad thing that more people are appreciating secondhand, you know, and...
01:03:32
Joe
um Yeah.
01:03:38
Joe
Yeah, I mean, I've never been wanted to i mean to use use a term that my kids will use is to gatekeep stuff like that.
01:03:44
matt
Right, right, right, yeah.
01:03:44
Joe
you know um I'm just like, well that's that's just like such an asshole move to me. you know um the The other one that used to come up too, more so in the old days, is like you'd get these guys who'd be like, ah you know some kid would post a thing.
01:04:00
Joe
And he'd be wearing like Nantucket Reds, but they were from J. Crew. And they'd be like, oh, those aren't the real Nantucket Reds. Murray's Toggery Shop.
01:04:07
matt
Right, right.
01:04:08
Joe
And I would always be the one who would be like, no, but like this kid is like interested in this and is like doing the best he can with what he knows at the moment.
01:04:17
matt
100%, yeah.
01:04:18
Joe
and Like he will move from that to the bit like don't shit on him. he You know what I think Like like like I applaud the effort like it's not bad.
01:04:23
matt
Yeah, totally, totally.
01:04:28
Joe
It could be better keep going yeah like Yes Yeah, yeah exactly exactly and again the label thing it's like who who gives a shit if he never told you where they came from you probably wouldn't have said anything, you know, like Yeah, it would have been fine.
01:04:30
matt
Yeah, yeah, we all we all start somewhere.
01:04:42
matt
Right, 100%.
01:04:45
Joe
So
01:04:48
matt
Well, ah to yeah, this has been a ah great chat. And I feel like the three of us are are very aligned on a lot of lot of the ways that we see shit.
01:04:58
matt
But to end things, what's some of the wildest or are your favorite finds over the years?
01:05:06
Joe
ah She's been a lot of...
01:05:06
matt
It doesn't have to be, yeah. I know there's been many, but...
01:05:09
Joe
Yeah. Let me take a look at some of the... um Oh, you want to know one of the craziest things that ever happened? is um One time I found ah found this tweed jacket at a thrift store right and it was from the Andover shop and it was made out of that like hardcore, heavy as hell, bulletproof tweed.
01:05:31
Joe
right It was moss green and it had a big giant orange and red window paint on it.
01:05:31
matt
Yeah, yeah.
01:05:37
Joe
like Like really very very like English like duck shooting
01:05:38
matt
Ooh.
01:05:38
Conor Fowler
Beautiful.
01:05:42
Joe
and it weighed a ton and whatever. And I got out of the thrift store for a couple of bucks and I was psyched, right?
01:05:48
matt
Right.
01:05:48
Joe
And the first time I had it on, I was walking in Harvard Square and the same jacket was on the window display in the Andover shop.
01:05:56
matt
Ha, ha, ha, that's great.
01:05:57
Conor Fowler
yeah
01:05:58
Joe
So somehow it wasn't even, it was like a current thing that they were selling, right? So whatever, that's not even the end of it. So I had it and um And I wore it for a few years.
01:06:10
Joe
And then, you know, when you when you when you're like this, you you accumulate stuff, you purge stuff, you sell it, you donate it, it comes and it goes and whatever. And somewhere along the way, I sold that jacket and like immediately regretted it, right?
01:06:22
matt
Right.
01:06:23
Joe
And then, um like six months later, I was poking around eBay and I not only found the same jacket, but the actual one that had belonged to me.
01:06:35
Joe
being resold by the guy that I sold it to and bought it back from him for like 50 bucks but so because I had regretted getting rid of it so much you know so that was like one like ultra crazy thing um I mean I don't know I remember one time I found like
01:06:42
Conor Fowler
That's the circle of life right there. From whence you came.
01:06:55
Joe
I went into a thrift store, some suburb somewhere, and found this like whole stash of like Alpine German stuff. like Like one of those like lodden capes and like the hat with all the pins and the feathers on it and like the crazy suit that's almost like a neighbor jacket with the leaves.
01:07:09
matt
Oh yeah.
01:07:14
Joe
like like a whole Some old guy from Austria had died and like all his like Austria stuff was there. um And I wound up selling it all in one lot somewhere, you know um And it's fun.
01:07:27
Joe
That's that's the fun of it like that was some really cool well-made stuff that I was absolutely never gonna wear but it was just fun to like have found it and have Had it for a while and moved it on to someone else You know and just to have been part of a lifespan of that thing, you know Yeah
01:07:42
matt
yeah
01:07:45
matt
Yeah, that the person, if you sold a whole lot of that to one person, that person really enjoyed it. And like, you know, I say often to people, there's a collector for fucking everything.
01:07:58
Joe
Right, and that's the fun thing about selling stuff is like, um i would i I know that that stuff was awesome, but I was totally never gonna wear it. It's just not my thing. would you know i I wouldn't have pulled it off, I didn't want to, um but it doesn't mean that I appreciated any less for what it is.
01:08:08
matt
100%.
01:08:15
matt
totally for sure for sure yeah and there's nothing like uh nothing better than like you know i'll be doing a pop-up market and sell something to someone and they get so psyched on the thing or they put it on immediately and are like walking out with it it's like
01:08:16
Joe
um So you know buying and selling stuff gets you gives you the chance to play with these things that are maybe not necessarily for you um in a way that you couldn't if you were only shopping for yourself.
01:08:27
Joe
you know Yeah.
01:08:42
matt
Yeah, I sell on eBay and and Instagram and shit too, but like that little burst of serotonin that you get from note knowing like, I found this, you know, 200 miles away from where I live in some God forsaken town.
01:08:48
Joe
Yeah.
01:08:56
matt
And this person is so stoked up.
01:08:59
Joe
Oh, that's like, of so so so for a while when I had the little, my my kids used to call it the secret store ah because it was on the second floor in a building and you'd never find it if I didn't put the sign out on the street.
01:09:11
matt
Right.
01:09:11
Joe
um I had found, um I found a suit, of tails, like white tie from the from like 1918 or something like that, right?
01:09:19
matt
Oh man, yeah.
01:09:21
Joe
and it was the jacket and the pants and it was made out of that like real thick flannel and it's like the big thick like like ribbed groguering silk on the lapels and everything but of course it was so old it was like super tiny right um but i bought it anyway because i found it somewhere and it was awesome and i had it in the shop and um down the hall from um from where my place was, there was a yoga studio and all the places on the second floor had a shared bathroom, right? So I had gone out to go to the bathroom and I came back ah and one of the people from the yoga studio,
01:09:57
Joe
i this non-binary person who was a writer who had just had a book come out and was getting ready to do like the book release party was standing in my place wearing this like super old 1920s tuxedo um and because they had been born a small female person it fit you know i mean
01:10:06
matt
Right.
Unexpected Developments in Vintage Clothing Business
01:10:18
Joe
in a way that it wasn't gonna fit any guy
01:10:18
matt
yeah That's awesome.
01:10:20
Joe
And it was like, the and and we we hadn't even met. And and then, it was oh, my my name's Jade. I'm doing this book thing. And I'm so happy to find this crazy old tux. I was so happy to find someone to sell it to, because I thought I was never going to get rid of it, right?
01:10:35
Joe
um And so I sold it to them and they did the book party and it was cool. And then the side effect of it was for like a year after that, up until I closed the store, I was like the secret store for like non-binary people to go buy men's clothes.
01:10:51
matt
oh Fuck yeah, fuck yes Yeah, yeah Totally
01:10:52
Conor Fowler
Nah!
01:10:52
Joe
it And so like, yeah, so I started like intentionally like picking up like small tuxedos that I might've passed on before. All of a sudden they had this market for the stuff, you know um But it was like a thing I never meant to happen, but just totally became a thing, you know um And I was just like sure if this is like a thing i' um I'm into it.
01:11:14
Joe
That's great, you know um Yeah, and i yeah I remember I wrote that was in the days when when the old blog was going to I had pictures of Jade wearing the the tails and I did a whole write-up about how um
01:11:14
matt
totally
01:11:29
Joe
you know, Josephine Baker and Marlene Dietrich and all these, like, like the idea of, like, a woman wearing a men's tailcoat in some sort of unusual setting is nothing new, you know what I mean?
01:11:41
matt
Nope, nope.
01:11:42
Conor Fowler
Yeah, we'll have to pull that for sure.
01:11:42
Joe
Like, yeah.
01:11:45
matt
Yeah, that's ah that that is a true way to be an ally.
01:11:48
Joe
It's on there somewhere, yeah, and I was just...
01:11:50
Conor Fowler
There's a Josephine Baker mural in Baltimore, like right on one of the main roads.
01:11:55
Joe
Cool. Where's she from around there?
01:11:58
Conor Fowler
I believe she was from Baltimore.
01:11:58
Joe
I think so, yeah, yeah.
01:11:59
Conor Fowler
I believe she was from West Baltimore and Billie Holiday too.
01:12:02
Joe
But you know, that's something I never would have expected. It just it just happened.
01:12:06
matt
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the kind of serendipitous stuff that that like,
01:12:06
Joe
And I was like, you know, yeah.
01:12:10
matt
I don't know, it's it's a core part of the thrift life.
01:12:10
Joe
yeah
01:12:14
Joe
Yeah, and even when I sold it, I was like, I gotta tell you, I was like, every every bone in my body told me not to buy this thing, despite how awesome it was, because it was like a 27-inch waist and a size 34 chest, you know, like some teeny tiny guy in 1920s that was wearing this thing.
01:12:31
matt
Right.
01:12:32
Joe
um But it was just so awesome, I couldn't leave it behind, you know what I mean?
01:12:35
matt
I feel it entirely.
01:12:36
Joe
Yeah, yeah. And it found a good home, you know?
01:12:39
matt
It didn't, it didn't.
01:12:40
Joe
um Yeah.
01:12:42
matt
Fuck you.
01:12:42
Joe
And not just on a hanger in someone's closet. like you know it it It got purchased, it got worn to some special event, which is what the thing was for in the first place anyway. you know That's cool.
01:12:53
matt
Yeah, I hope it's still hanging in their closet. Like, you know, I'm sure that they remember the situation as much as you do.
01:12:56
Joe
Yeah.
01:13:01
Joe
Four has moved on to its next rightful owner.
01:13:03
matt
Yeah, 100%.
01:13:04
Joe
you know One or the other, yeah.
01:13:06
matt
Yeah, yeah, the circle of thrift life. Anyway, Joe, man, and this has been fucking awesome. um Thank you, yeah, thank you so much for coming on.
01:13:13
Conor Fowler
For sure.
01:13:17
matt
We always give our guests a chance to shout out themselves or whatever else they would like to, so have at it.
Community and Connections Through Vintage Markets
01:13:24
Joe
Oh, shout outs. Geez, I don't know. I'm a homebody. I don't do much outside of the house. But you know what? um I would give, um I mean, anybody I'm gonna shout out is somebody you've already interviewed here anyway, you know?
01:13:38
matt
ha well
01:13:39
Joe
My my good buddy Zach, AKA, and my Leon dad, AKA, used to be Newton Street Vintage.
01:13:44
matt
Oh yeah.
01:13:45
Joe
I give him a shout out. We talk all the time. We're still ah good buddies despite living on opposite ends of the country.
01:13:51
matt
Right.
01:13:51
Joe
um
01:13:52
matt
Did you know him when he was in Boston or did you guys meet online?
01:13:56
Joe
You know how we met is um when I organized the first top shelf flea market, i ah which I don't know if you guys ever heard of that or remember.
01:14:07
Joe
um but i So I used to organize these vintage flea markets back before that was really a thing too.
01:14:11
Conor Fowler
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
01:14:13
Joe
um And when I did the first one, i I advertised on the blog just looking for vendors. I was like, anybody wants to do this thing? get in touch And he was one of the guys that got in touch with me.
01:14:24
Joe
um That's how we met. and um yeah We've been friends ever since.
01:14:26
matt
Oh, that's awesome.
01:14:28
Joe
We worked together at Ralph Lauren for a while um in in the the flagship store in Boston. He actually got me that job. um But yeah, it was just complete serendipitous thing.
01:14:40
Joe
I was doing a flea market.
01:14:40
matt
that's
01:14:42
Joe
He was reading my blog. and you know Um, yeah, and we're good friends. Same thing with, I mean, there was some other guys like, like, um, like John Tinsiff. I met through affordable wardrobe. We've, we've been really good friends for years. Um, you know, ADG, remember him?
01:14:59
matt
Oh, yeah.
01:15:00
Joe
Dusty Granger, yeah, he's another friend of mine. He's kind of dropped off the scene a little bit, which is fine, but um he's another good friend of mine that came to me by way of this ah this whole crazy world and all.
01:15:09
matt
Oh, that's great.
01:15:12
Joe
So yeah, um it's it's been fun because the people I have met along the way have been have been good folks by and large.
01:15:19
matt
Totally.
01:15:21
Joe
you know asshole here An asshole or two here and there, but that's kind of inevitable, I guess.
01:15:21
matt
Totally.
01:15:25
matt
For sure.
01:15:27
Joe
So yeah.
The Shift from Blogging to Instagram
01:15:28
matt
For sure, and ah throw everyone, if they don't already follow you, your Instagram handle.
01:15:34
Joe
So my Instagram handle is an affordable wardrobe and period affordable period wardrobe. I think if I'm not mistaken. Um, but yeah, an affordable wardrobe just like it's always been.
01:15:47
matt
Yeah, yeah, and highly recommend, highly recommend.
01:15:48
Joe
Um,
01:15:48
Conor Fowler
Just like it's always been, hell yeah.
01:15:51
Joe
yeah.
01:15:52
Conor Fowler
Yeah, because it's because it's many, many, many, many posts, the blogspot one.
01:15:52
Joe
Yeah.
01:15:57
Conor Fowler
I mean, it's like an insane time capsule into that period of our little scene.
01:16:02
Joe
Well, I used to post on that thing like three, four times a week. you know i was um you know the The funny thing, too, is the reason I didn't do it for so many years is what I liked most about the old blog was the writing.
01:16:13
Joe
and um you know Because it was, like I said earlier, it was more about writing than it is now. and then um you know i didn't I sort of like went ah went dark for a while because writing wasn't where it was at anymore.
01:16:29
Conor Fowler
Right.
01:16:30
Joe
And even if you look at the the Instagram when I started, in in the beginning the posts were like one picture and a whole bunch of paragraphs until I realized that that's just not how Instagram works.
01:16:39
matt
Sadly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:16:39
Joe
and not Not what anyone's looking for. so ah But you know we adapt, it's still fun.
01:16:45
matt
We do adapt.
01:16:45
Joe
you know Yeah.
01:16:46
matt
Yeah, as long as you're having fun, it's that's all that matters.
01:16:48
Joe
Yeah.
01:16:51
matt
But yeah, so one more time, thank you, Joe.
01:16:51
Joe
Cool.
01:16:55
matt
Everyone, thank you for listening. um If you'd like to send us an email, it's apocalypseduds at gmail ah.com, at apocalypseduds on Instagram. And I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
01:17:10
Conor Fowler
And I am Connor Flower at Connor Flower.
01:17:13
matt
And yeah, we'll catch you next week.
01:17:17
Joe
Thanks a lot, guys. Bye-bye.
01:17:18
Conor Fowler
Peace.
01:17:18
matt
Take care.
01:17:19
Conor Fowler
Oh man,
Humor and Menswear Debate
01:17:20
Conor Fowler
yeah. And I wanted to say Mitch McConnell fell two times in the Senate, like very recently.
01:17:23
matt
a
01:17:25
Joe
Did he? you what wait can i Can I leave you with one thing about Mitch McConnell, a secret theory that I have?
01:17:26
Conor Fowler
ah Yeah.
01:17:26
matt
Yeah. Yeah, please do.
01:17:31
Conor Fowler
Yeah,
01:17:32
Joe
If you look at Mitch McConnell's suits, I think he wears Oxford.
01:17:37
matt
Probably yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah
01:17:37
Joe
You know, OXX, look at the lapels, and that's just me being a super dork.
01:17:39
Conor Fowler
yeah, yeah.
01:17:43
Joe
As much as I ah credit that guy with, like, 85% of the downfall of America, um he does wear nice clothes, nice most of the people.
01:17:52
Conor Fowler
Well, when you are when you are a human shaped like a turtle, you have to conceal your body in a certain way.
01:17:56
Joe
Yeah.
01:17:59
Conor Fowler
And that's that's the Oxford cloth, Oxford suiting does.
01:17:59
Joe
But if...
01:18:01
matt
i don't think I don't think I've ever seen him in like the shitty dress thinkers that Kevin, whatever the fuck that asshole's name is.
01:18:01
Joe
But if...
01:18:07
Conor Fowler
No, dude, because Mitch McConnell is like propelled only by evil.
01:18:13
matt
yeah
01:18:13
Joe
yeah
01:18:14
Conor Fowler
And a soft soul is not evil at all.
01:18:19
matt
True, true.
01:18:22
Joe
No, but I'm serious. The next time you see him on TV wearing a suit, look at the cut of the lapel of his jacket and then compare it to an Oxford suit.
01:18:28
matt
Yeah, yeah.
01:18:31
Joe
It's a very distinct lapel that they have.
01:18:33
matt
It truly is, it truly is.
01:18:34
Joe
and um And you know how I figured that one out and I'm not to keep dragging it on.
01:18:35
matt
Man.
01:18:38
Joe
You know, when it first occurred to me is um I wrote a thing on affordable wardrobe when they made such a big stink about Barack Obama's tan suit. And I poked around the internet and found a picture of Mitch McConnell wearing a tan suit, you know, in July or something because it was the summertime.
01:18:53
matt
Oh yeah.
01:18:56
Joe
And I was like, well, this guy's got a tan suit too. And that's when I first noticed it. ah but Yeah.
01:19:02
matt
Nice. nice yes we we will the tan suit day will live in infamy or days probably there you go solid idea let's let's organize this one
01:19:09
Joe
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that should be, a get all the menswear guys together to protest by showing up in tan suits for something.
01:19:20
Conor Fowler
Have you considered the way that these tariffs will affect my clothing purchases? Golly!
01:19:25
Joe
Oh, God. well Yeah, I better order some Wranglers now before they go into effect in Mexico, since that's where they make those.
01:19:32
matt
right right all right well ah yeah this has been hella fun and we appreciate your time Joe take care of my friend
01:19:33
Joe
yeah
01:19:33
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:19:42
Joe
Yeah, thanks for having me guys.
01:19:42
Conor Fowler
Yeah man.
01:19:44
Joe
Hey, have a good one.