Transcript
matt: Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Apocalypse Duds. I am one of your hosts, Matt Smith.
Conor Fowler: And I'm Connor Flower.
matt: And today, momentous occasion, we come together to come together to celebrate the death of James Dobson from Focus on the Family.
Conor Fowler: la
matt: An evangelical piece of shit who existed basically for no other reason than trying to create a Christian nationalist movement happen. Rest in piss, buddy. um Oh yeah, we've also got a fantastic guest in the studio.
matt: um Friend of mine for quite a few years now. A true artisan. Jack many trades. A connoisseur of the finer things in life. You know, like reclaimed wood and the like.
matt: But yeah, we're happy to welcome the notorious barn hog trollman.
BARNHOG: The barn hog.
matt: The barn hog.
BARNHOG: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: Welcome, dude.
matt: And the build hog and um in a former life.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: i
Conor Fowler: yeah
BARNHOG: I still do build hoggish stuff, mostly organizing hog lately, seems like.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
BARNHOG: ah
matt: And yeah, we'll we'll talk about your compound a little later on. But yeah, um there is a compound.
BARNHOG: There's a compound.
matt: And yeah, to get started, um where are you from and where are you now?
BARNHOG: So I'm actually from Los Angeles. But my parents were kind of like, yeah, let's not do the kids in LA thing.
BARNHOG: Let's get out of here. So when I was real young, they got me out of there. i ended up getting scooted through kind of the suburbs shortly. And then parents had the good idea Around fifth grade, let's move to the boonies and do chickens and, the you know, raise the kids on a small hobby farm.
BARNHOG: So we moved to the middle of nowhere. And I was a new kid, the California guy that talked fast. And so I left for a long time and and traveled all over many corners of the United States and ended up back in that little boonie place.
BARNHOG: Boonie niche of Northern Appalachia, New York state. So that's where I am now, Western, Western New York.
matt: Oh, that's awesome.
BARNHOG: It's, it's pretty all right.
Conor Fowler: thorough.
BARNHOG: I mean.
matt: Yeah, you're a just from a personal standpoint, like your voice never sounded to me like a Western New York accent. And now the L.A. makes a lot of sense.
BARNHOG: yeah I talk. talk
BARNHOG: different, I guess it's like where I'm at is kind of like, I've spent time with some Canadians and I sometimes I feel like I talk Canadian, but also my mom is like very Los Angeles.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: So I think, you know, it a kind of all comes blended together.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BARNHOG: My grandmother's French Canadian too. So like she spoke only French until she was maybe in her twenties.
matt: Oh, holy shit.
BARNHOG: Um,
Conor Fowler: The Quebecois.
BARNHOG: Yeah, my grandfather's from Paris, so he was like super French also. um
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: So you came by the Canadian thing ah earnestly. well It's not like you're hanging out with some Canadians. In addition, you have French Canadians and Parisians very nearly related to you.
BARNHOG: i I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't get to spend a lot of time around these people, but because just, I mean, they were a lot older. My mom was the youngest of...
BARNHOG: i think it was 13 kids, which most of them i't I didn't meet.
matt: Jesus!
BARNHOG: didn't meet a few of them, you know. um But yeah, they had a big family. So my grandparents were pretty old and living in L.A., me growing up here, i only seen them a few times. So the Canadian thing is more, you know, you get these people that do travel from Canada down to this area, and then they hire freaking poor laborers that are skilled to be like,
BARNHOG: building their dream. So you end up hanging out with these like rich Canadians sometimes that are like kind of interesting. You know, you get some quirky, some quirky people that got money that want to spend it on poor laborers or whatever you want to consider me, you know, being a skilled stonework, stuff like that, moving dirt.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: well so so like i get it it's sort of a joke right a poor poor laborer because what uh or like an unskilled laborer right which of course doesn't exist um
BARNHOG: Yeah.
BARNHOG: Right.
Conor Fowler: is just sort of a creation, right?
BARNHOG: There can be a, I mean, it's a skill to follow. ah You know, if someone is just, you know, wants you to believe that you're not skilled and you're really not doing much,
Conor Fowler: That's what I'm saying. I mean, it's a right. Then why are they paying in the first place?
BARNHOG: it's hard. Yeah, exactly. If you have no skills, I mean, you had the skill to show up, even if it was late, you still...
Conor Fowler: Right. but
BARNHOG: Yeah, I think it's easy to, you know, everybody wants to dismiss the, you know, the rule of the laborer, but I don't, I don't work for anybody anymore now because I'm just like, got to a point where I feel like it's just too valuable to even leave.
matt: Right, right.
matt: Yeah. Right,
BARNHOG: It's just, they can't pay me enough to make me leave my compound.
matt: right.
BARNHOG: Ultimately.
matt: right right Because, I mean, I guess i've known I've known you five or six years at this point.
BARNHOG: Yeah.
matt: i'm like I know that you've done a ton of like masonry work, like carpentry. like Everything you tell me about the shit you you know you've worked on, I'm just like, I have no idea how any of this even happens.
matt: How you even learn how to do that shit.
BARNHOG: i get I take it for granted, I guess, you know, being around tradespeople and growing up, you know, in a family that essentially is DIYers on both sides and crafts people of one sort or another, which in my mind, it's like, oh, everybody's, you know, being a DIYer these days, everybody's doing everything. And, but I do take it for granted and overlook that it's,
BARNHOG: kind of second nature for me to want to know how stuff works and maybe, maybe even not end up doing it, but just figure it out enough to be like, Oh, I really fully understand this.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: And then it's good enough for me. And I'm like, Oh, okay. I don't even finish my project or whatever. But yeah a lot of the stuff is, is definitely
BARNHOG: it's, there's no end to it.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: But I try to tell people I don't do anything like that because they end up calling and be, hey, can you, will you, you swing by and look at the holes in my house?
matt: Yeah, of course.
Conor Fowler: Well, if you're the person with a truck, right.
BARNHOG: Well, ah don't even have a truck right now to drive.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. It's an unenviable position.
BARNHOG: My new truck's not inspected.
Conor Fowler: No, I know.
BARNHOG: So it's perfect.
Conor Fowler: yeah And there's the truck thing.
BARNHOG: Yeah, I don't have to use, I don't have to have an excuse anymore.
Conor Fowler: yeah
BARNHOG: I just say like I dont really don't have a truck. I really, people stopped calling a while ago.
Conor Fowler: Well, if you come to Baltimore, you can drive it unregistered and no one will ever say anything.
BARNHOG: I have been places like that. I had my truck, ah Kansas City, Missouri for a while and i was I felt like a genius. I just let my insurance run out.
BARNHOG: Well, New York State doesn't allow you to not have ah your vehicle insured. So when I got back, my PO o box was full of all this stuff that was like, your insurance lapsed.
matt: Right. Dude.
BARNHOG: They ended ended up wanting like $1,200.
BARNHOG: ah The state just wanted that money because six months went by or they said pull your pull your vehicle off the road for six months, which I did.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: i just bought a Subaru for $600, pulled my plates for six months. And so sometimes does seem like a good deal.
Conor Fowler: Damn. That's a pretty good, that's a pretty good find.
BARNHOG: I thought it was a great idea, but I guess...
Conor Fowler: no, no. no no they And they'll fuck you up too. Like I had a seizure and so i wasn't allowed to drive for a little while. And they wanted me to prove that I hadn't been driving somehow. So I had to get my neighbors to testify that they hadn't seen my car move in the past 60 days, just preposterous shit.
BARNHOG: Yeah. I'm.
Conor Fowler: And I wasn't driving truthfully. Wasn't driving. I wasn't driving at all because I had a fucking seizure and we couldn't figure it out.
BARNHOG: You get, I mean, once you get to the state or the motor vehicle people involved and stuff like that, they really, they got to cover their own ass.
Conor Fowler: So,
BARNHOG: So they, even if it's just a paperwork thing, I, you can't make them liable for your,
matt: So
Conor Fowler: No.
BARNHOG: possible, you know, like bad thing.
Conor Fowler: So. Yeah.
BARNHOG: No, a seizure that is serious though.
Conor Fowler: so
matt: so
BARNHOG: I mean, I can see why this I wrecked my truck and they didn't know what happened. So they made me prove that it wasn't a whole bunch of different stuff medically.
BARNHOG: So I can see it seems pretty dumb the time, but you're like, yeah, I guess.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Conor Fowler: No, I mean, I understand, right? It's like you can't be driving if you are having this unexplained seizures. But even so, what proof is it that my neighbors are saying anything?
BARNHOG: No, they don't like that. That's not good.
Conor Fowler: You know, it seems like it's not real validation.
BARNHOG: they Did they blow you in? you've got cool neighbors or what? Did your neighbors blow you in?
Conor Fowler: They're both, my neighbors at my mom's house and they are both like Trump conservatives. And they still were like, no, I mean, we didn't,
BARNHOG: So you drove. They seen you drive in. You were doing wheelies with your car.
Conor Fowler: you know Yeah, no they just said that they didn't see it. They just were like weirdly not vindictive about it.
BARNHOG: That's great.
Conor Fowler: um
BARNHOG: so
Conor Fowler: But we must get into it somehow.
BARNHOG: i
Conor Fowler: ah What are you wearing? yeah
BARNHOG: Right now? oh i got oh ah got my damaged hat on.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I saw that.
BARNHOG: it's so Actually, i have a Filson T-shirt.
Conor Fowler: Right. Right.
BARNHOG: drift that i It's actually a very nice fitting T-shirt made in USA.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it is a nice, uh, you can't, you couldn't find, it would be tough to find a t-shirt that fit like that.
BARNHOG: I have a hard time. ah basically,
Conor Fowler: How tall are you?
BARNHOG: I'm well, I mostly have a hard time just cause I screw things up. Like I, I ruined clothing, but I'm, I'm about six foot.
Conor Fowler: Oh, you're one of these people.
BARNHOG: do have an extended seaming torso and
Conor Fowler: That's what I'm saying. You're tall and thin.
BARNHOG: yeah, I seem to find a lot of stuff that fits though. I think I'm like actually a common size for, of a, like,
matt: I feel like you're kind of a model build, like for menswear.
Conor Fowler: Right. Right.
BARNHOG: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: right
BARNHOG: I think so. Where it's like probably they they release the most amount of my size and go like through the 50s and 60s.
matt: Right, right.
BARNHOG: It seems like everything you find is like a 44 or, you know, ah it's just I love it. I always find stuff and I'm like, oh, it fits perfect. But anything modern, I'm just like, what the hell is a problem?
BARNHOG: Like, why is this T-shirt just, you know, nothing fits? So I actually spend a lot of time not wearing anything because, well, I'll throw like pants on whatever, but I want my clothes to last.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: So I'm like, if I wear all my stuff, I'm just crawling around in concrete dust and rocks. So I i try to just prolong my clothes.
Conor Fowler: So even you, so even you are a clothing preservationist, let's say, cause it's like, so you don't want to mess up your, your stuff.
BARNHOG: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Even if it's dirty shit, you don't want to mess it up.
BARNHOG: No, it gets dirty just hanging there.
Conor Fowler: Oh, is this your, wow.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: So I... i like to I like to keep my stuff on deck because I switch clothes a lot through the day.
matt: right
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: i get up early, you know, so it's like...
Conor Fowler: For example, for example, i mean, run us, run us through a day of clothing changes if you can. i mean.
BARNHOG: ah Average this time of year, it's actually like right now, it's pretty much the same. i don't do a lot of like frivolous dressing, you know, like if I clean and start moving stuff around, I'll just start throwing shit on for two seconds and being like,
BARNHOG: Oh yeah, I used to wear this all the time. But most of my clothes are like stuff that I don't wear that much.
Conor Fowler: yeah
BARNHOG: I just like it. And this stuff hanging here is hanging here. I reference things a lot because I got a big table right here. So I'm working on, you know, making clothes.
Conor Fowler: right.
BARNHOG: And I like to have all the different shirts and stuff so I can just go over and look at the way pockets were done and stuff like that. But the average day, I kind of do...
Conor Fowler: Ah,
BARNHOG: If you think about like how traditional clothing was made where they kind of layered, layer system where you would do like a, maybe not even a t-shirt really at a certain point, but like a button up wool shirt with a vest.
Conor Fowler: see
Conor Fowler: petticoat, whatever. Yeah.
BARNHOG: I do vests a lot, you know, sleeveless.
Conor Fowler: Sure, they're very they're very utilitarian.
BARNHOG: this
BARNHOG: I love it. That's really, I think, you know, I kind of in my head feel like vests are boring sometimes. You can see all the people making all kinds of jackets. There's all kinds of you know cool collars and I'm just still making the same boring vest.
BARNHOG: If you look at it, the construction is totally different now, but this cut is practically the same, but it's so functional. i mean it's It's not that much fabric.
BARNHOG: So if I'm really gonna find something that's cool and unique, I don't have to find a lot of it. I can just use a little bit, you know get two pieces out of a basket or out of a blanket.
Conor Fowler: See, that's something that I...
BARNHOG: If I'm gonna use a blanket or a jacket, you're pretty limited.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: You know you gotta to find a right amount.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: It can be hard. You're trying to match up plaids. You only have such a size of a blanket. Now, you know
matt: right
BARNHOG: So yeah, I like a vest. I think it's very utilitarian.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: I mean, in my mind, it's hard to beat like a regular wool blanket. It's like, oh, how could you beat that? You just throw it over you. And just, I hate cutting a blanket. I just hate cutting something to use it. Cause it's like, how could you almost get better than just a piece of fabric?
BARNHOG: You know, you start hacking this thing up and it's only going to fit a specific amount of people.
matt: yeah
BARNHOG: Now you got
Conor Fowler: dude, that is so, that is like such a futuristic or prehistoric view.
matt: Yo!
matt: I just had a...
BARNHOG: I know, it's terrible. No, it's terrible.
Conor Fowler: No, it's good. It's really remarkable.
BARNHOG: I know, but...
Conor Fowler: It's like, I have never in my life heard that argument.
BARNHOG: I can't cut fabric, like, hardly at all.
Conor Fowler: That's crazy. And that's correct though, right? Like that's like, ah in a way it is correct.
BARNHOG: I think it should be. i I mean, you get a poncho. I have a couple cool ponchos that are just, like, a real simple, you know, hooded poncho thing, and it's so...
BARNHOG: Cool. I mean, it gets in the way for a lot of stuff. It's hard to work in the thing or do anything other than just kind of sit around, which is, you know, I'm into energy conservation, but I'm also, I have like big aspirations, so they don't really both work.
Conor Fowler: What is ideal?
matt: Yeah, you've got shit going on pretty much all the time.
BARNHOG: Me?
matt: Yeah, yeah, I feel like you're always doing something.
BARNHOG: Oh, it's, it's, I do manage to find a lot of time to justify not doing anything, but it's like a part of the process. So it's, It's certainly, it's always like making sure what's next, making sure I'm thinking about what time of year it is.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: Like I'm waiting on a load of firewood right now and the guy's equipment broke in front of the pile of wood so they can't load the wood. And he was kind of like, well, it should be a couple of days, but that was like last week.
BARNHOG: So, you know, I'm always mentally just somewhere
matt: right
BARNHOG: If I'm not physically doing something, I'm mentally like, oh, I can't forget about that. But then I just, I'm a procrastinator, so I don't forget about it, but I just keep putting it off for like, you know, sometimes indefinitely.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you, you know what the, you know what the piece of cloth, uh, conversation reminds me of uh, Sylvester Stallone when he was filming Rambo, the first one, uh,
matt: like found this like weather worn canvas, like somewhere that they were filming on set. And he cut a hole, i think for his head and his arms in it and just draped it over himself. And I think he like kind of tightened it with a, with a piece of rope and he wore that the entire time they were filming. It's in the film.
matt: Like he wears that, but,
BARNHOG: That's, it's, that's, I think it's just a real thing.
Conor Fowler: I bet he does.
BARNHOG: I mean, I, I actually like do clothing kind of, it's been a progression progression of like, essentially, not just survival skills, but skills in general, but you start
matt: yeah
BARNHOG: I did go to survival school. So you learn, you know, fire, shelter, water, food, or whatever.
BARNHOG: Clothing is shelter. So, you you know, you move through these skills and you learn how to do all this stuff.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: right
BARNHOG: Like making your own clothing is like, To have the time to be like, well, I could mentally find water, make a fire with sticks and all this stuff. But to be like, I'm manufacturing. Now I'm all the way at the industrial freaking revolution.
BARNHOG: But the basis of that is really just tying a f freaking rag on yourself.
matt: Right. Right.
BARNHOG: And I mean, doesn't just want to do that.
matt: Yeah. I mean, our friend John, when,
BARNHOG: I mean,
matt: Right. when ah When our friend John, leisurely loafing, interviewed us, I don't know, a month or two ago, you know one of his questions that he came up with was like, what are you grabbing or what are you wearing and you know having at the end of thepo or at the as far as clothing goes?
matt: And one, both Connor and I said a fishtail parka, and then I said, man, you can make a fucking tent out of that thing if you had to.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's just what I was thinking when you were talking about it. It's like the Fishdale Park is a poncho, basically.
BARNHOG: Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
BARNHOG: Yeah. No, the, the
matt: It's not that dissimilar from like the issued army tents. It's just a little less fabric.
Conor Fowler: yeah. yeah
BARNHOG: I would definitely, I would go, i would suggest something that was like wool for sure.
Conor Fowler: i be yeah I bet they made it out of the same shit.
BARNHOG: And
matt: Okay.
BARNHOG: ah
matt: Wait, so, okay.
BARNHOG: nylon is all right.
matt: Let's officially make this a question. Yeah, what what are you wearing during the apocalypse?
Conor Fowler: Yes.
BARNHOG: All right. During the apocalypse, probably for the intimidation factor, because i just plan on like... people, i don't want them to bother me.
BARNHOG: I'm not wearing anything. I'm actually gonna conserve my clothing for like when I'm going out for fancy dinners and shit, because I'm gonna make it so long through the apocalypse, I'm gonna be eating good again.
BARNHOG: So I'm saving my shit. And I'm probably gonna be wearing a combination of like bicycle inner tubes and like rubber hoses and like mud.
Conor Fowler: Wow. Wow, wow, wow.
BARNHOG: I mean, i' I'd probably find actually whatever I found along the way. You know, I would just keep changing my clothes based off of, I'm not like a looter kind of person. I don't really, you know, I do like to.
Conor Fowler: What did you say? Bicycle inner tubes and what?
BARNHOG: Rubber hoses. Just like black rubber hoses.
Conor Fowler: Rubber hoses. That's right. im We're taking this down. We're writing this. Matt and I both in the same document are writing the same thing.
BARNHOG: Oh, you and the whole industry. The whole industry is watching this right now, waiting to hear what I say so that they can start marketing it. So bicycle, inner tubes, their bike is really good too.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
BARNHOG: Rubber hoses.
Conor Fowler: Wow. Wow.
matt: Oh, and Connor, you've got to make sure to add mud.
Conor Fowler: Right. Mud is very important.
BARNHOG: Mud for sure. Oil, you know, like...
Conor Fowler: Well, I think that, I think that the answer going nude is like very funny because, ah are people still going to be repelled by nudity in the apocalypse?
Conor Fowler: I don't know because it would be very funny
BARNHOG: Well, it depends on how you like behave. if It depends on how you behave.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's like, we're not going to go near that guy because it would be gay. Like, we're not going to kill this guy because it would be gay.
BARNHOG: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: we don't want wanna see We don't want to see any male genitals and it would be gay.
BARNHOG: No, you... i would I would have to...
Conor Fowler: And so you survive the apocalypse because everyone's a homophobe.
BARNHOG: like
BARNHOG: I would actually kind of do stuff that was really... like like I would climb trees and like look at people funny, you know, like howl and like I didn't see them and they caught me like acting like my natural self, but I would know they were coming.
BARNHOG: And then I would just be like, oh, they busted me. You know, I, then they'd be like, just leave that, do it alone. You know, don't even, you know, then they would just not bother me.
Conor Fowler: ah just leave that dude alone
BARNHOG: That would be the most ideal.
matt: This really sounds like a Family Guy sketch of a character at the end of the world.
Conor Fowler: or yeah what i'm trying to figure out is like are the inner tubes going around like sort of like ribs
BARNHOG: I'm trying to picture like how they would dress me with like bicycle inner tubes and hoses and I'm for it. I'm for hire.
BARNHOG: You can weave them. So you can actually cut them in strips and kind of like weave them together.
Conor Fowler: Interesting.
BARNHOG: ah
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: like a basket, kind of like a basket weave basically for, you know, So that's more or less what I'm kind of picturing, but you can hang them in strips too. Like, ah you know, cut them into strips.
BARNHOG: So they're kind of hanging like how you'd make a reed skirt, I think.
matt: You can make a vest.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Right. Right.
BARNHOG: I mean, there's a whole whole bunch of different ways, but yeah, time you can definitely tie them together in strips. Or just, I mean, I'd just blow one up, like actually just have it be the tube and just put it right around me.
matt: So, I
BARNHOG: blown up.
Conor Fowler: We can't talk about blowing things up on this show, my friend.
BARNHOG: Use it like a...
BARNHOG: With air.
matt: Yeah, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's just terrible.
BARNHOG: I would blow it up with air so the inner tube was full and rigid and stiff. Can I say that? All
matt: Yeah, you can definitely say that.
Conor Fowler: You can say rigid and stiff, definitely.
BARNHOG: right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yes.
BARNHOG: We're going to pump it up rigidly and stiffly.
matt: All right. Pump it up. Yeah, maybe pump is a better word.
BARNHOG: Yeah, yeah, I don't do much talking on the internet, but they do frown on that type of terminology now, I do understand.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, thank you, 9-11.
BARNHOG: Pumping is okay, though.
matt: Anyway, pumping is definitely okay.
BARNHOG: We're going to pump it. Because that's what you do.
matt: we're go to pop it.
BARNHOG: You don't really blow the tire up with, you know...
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
BARNHOG: Wait, that actually looks worse.
matt: i think I think people are going to enjoy that.
BARNHOG: Not a cartoon. All right, so where are we headed next?
matt: So we've heard a little of your Barnhog Troman lore, but can you give us like kind of a quick rundown of ah basically just how you ended up doing what you're doing now?
BARNHOG: um Well, it's easy to get off on a tangent quick.
Conor Fowler: Hmm.
BARNHOG: ah
matt: We love a tangent.
BARNHOG: All right. So,
Conor Fowler: We'll try to keep you honest here.
BARNHOG: i let's see, specifically the Barnhawk thing?
matt: No, just in general. like you're you're an interested
BARNHOG: Just where I'm at.
matt: You're an interesting person doing cool shit. So just kind of kind of tell us how you got here in a little not hour-long thing.
BARNHOG: It's, it is interesting. It is an interesting thing. So, all right, at one point, this was before I went to survival school,
BARNHOG: um I wanted to get donkeys. And I thought I had this great idea. I lived in Washington State.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
BARNHOG: I was like, I'm going to get some donkeys and I'm going to travel around and live with my donkeys. I'm not going live anywhere stable. I'm going to travel around with the weather with my two donkeys going to get and live out of a wagon.
BARNHOG: So I made all these plans. What am I going to need? What am I going to need to know? How do I learn about taking care of donkeys? What kind of donkeys? You know, I was designing a wagon a friend.
Conor Fowler: I have so many questions.
BARNHOG: Yeah, so it didn't – you know, it got more complicated fast.
Conor Fowler: wow
BARNHOG: You know, you start thinking about – I mean, I was looking into, you know, the veterinary concerns of traveling with donkeys from state to state.
Conor Fowler: yeah
BARNHOG: You know, there's a whole – It's all regulated. you You really have to stay up on vet checks.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: You have to like, all it's all very serious. um But I got to the point where somebody was like, well, you know, the more you know, the less you got to carry. So if you go to survival school, you won't have to carry as much stuff.
BARNHOG: So then I started going to wilderness survival school, traveling all over. I was like riding freight trains and doing stuff.
Conor Fowler: How do you go to what do you mean? What do you How do you go to wilderness survival school? Where do they offer that?
BARNHOG: Oh, you just... um Nowadays, it's pretty popular. there's I think there's a lot of options. so You can go and learn you know all kinds of primitive skills and stuff like that.
Conor Fowler: How to set a fire?
BARNHOG: At that point, I went to the Tracker School, which is actually in New Jersey. um
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: and went to some other schools. say I started with the Tracker School. That just kind of was its own thing that was like donkeys in a wagon.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: That's kind of boring. So I was like, and I mean, that's like kind of that'll tie me down. I'm going to get these donkeys. It's going to be expensive. I'm going to really, you know, they live a long time.
BARNHOG: So i I think I changed my mind.
BARNHOG: But the, yeah, the survival school thing I started to get into pretty seriously. Running all over, taking these different classes and learning all this stuff. And it just really, you know, i lived like,
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah.
BARNHOG: a street kid for a long time too. So I'm like making shit, just traveling around, living in the streets and being like, this is cool. You know, you can find everything anywhere.
BARNHOG: People are just trying to give you stuff everywhere you go. Oh, can I help you? Can I? And at that time it was different. Now I think it's more like everyone's just trusting and locking their doors and like freaked out.
Conor Fowler: yeah
BARNHOG: But at that time, you know, I was young person and, It was probably 2007-ish. And you just, you travel around like that. You start learning all these different skills.
BARNHOG: You know, you do start to get pushed out of places and you do start to go places where people are doing cool things. And I think it just kind of creates a set of like both skills and ideals to continually just be driven to property ownership and which sounds like a great idea. And then you get in the middle of it and everyone's like, oh yeah, you thought you wanted to be responsible.
BARNHOG: Well, here's another, you know, here's something that I want you to be responsible for that you're not even responsible for, but I'm just going to treat you like a property owner. So then, you know, it just builds and builds and builds. And next thing you know, you're just like, damn, I'm doing cool shit. And That's like the short version, I guess.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: It just kind of compounded over time of all these things happening. You know, I went from survival skills to tearing down barns. So then I'm getting into like structural analysis of like these buildings that were built a hundred years ago. And I'm like getting involved in those and getting further into it, tearing down the whole structure, people using them for all kinds of stuff. And then being like, well, how come some of these structures, you know,
BARNHOG: have to be torn down. What a waste.
matt: right
Conor Fowler: Right. Right.
BARNHOG: So then I learned about stone foundations because you have a flood maybe that could have occurred in the 40s. Now you've got all these buildings that have to be torn down because no one can fix a foundation and people just look at the house and go, oh, well, it's got a little bit of rot and the foundation's buckled for about 10 feet out of 40.
BARNHOG: Got to tear her down. Well, that's so stupid.
Conor Fowler: right
BARNHOG: So i started learning stone masonry and then I could fix the places. And then I'm like, man, I'm just fixing these places for asshole landlords. This is terrible. These people don't even care about these buildings.
matt: Right. Right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
BARNHOG: They just want to freaking shuffle a buck, you know. So then, you know, you just keep getting pushed along kind of deeper.
Conor Fowler: right
BARNHOG: Everybody started tearing down barns all at the same time. So I was like, why would I keep trying to do this? Everybody's doing it. Half of them are screwing it up.
matt: right
BARNHOG: But still, i don't like to try, you know, I just kind of would move on and then it just moved. The clothing thing was always really, you know, I was always thrifting growing up.
BARNHOG: I was always into clothing, you know, lived in Washington state. So you got Filson was a big, you know, I lived out there and that shit was, I found out about Filson when I was like maybe 25 and I was just like, this shit is awesome.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: Like, wow, I never seen clothes that were so real.
matt: right
BARNHOG: you know so it's a shame to see them change over time as they have
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Yeah, you and I talked about that since we. Right.
BARNHOG: it's it's you know i think well most new businesses i just seen a thing they're bankrupt in a matter of years like 80 of new businesses so what's it take for an older one like that that has a ton of fat at the top you know they take big risks and then they have to cut big fat and thankfully they are still you know able to do it because
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: I mean, they are they have a niche.
matt: Yeah, they do. They do. I have said about other, like, kind of legacy brands and manufacturers and stuff. I really wish they would hire someone that was, like, under the age of 60 to do creative shit.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
matt: Because it's like, yo, like, I understand that that you're, what you're trying to go for, but you're failing miserably. Yeah.
BARNHOG: my A lot of these guys might be young. I do i actually i don't even know the demographic. I kind of just assume a lot of them are younger now, like private equity firm bros and stuff.
matt: hey I really...
BARNHOG: I just assume a lot of these guys are like younger, aggressive, like like we need to like we haven't earned enough in our life yet. So we really got to turn this thing that's already working well and make it like work better.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Oh, yeah, for
BARNHOG: But like not for everybody, just like for us.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
BARNHOG: So I really don't know. I assume that they're younger.
matt: ah Okay, mete maybe maybe not the the age of the thing, but someone that understands...
BARNHOG: They're mentally in their 60s, just like.
matt: Yeah, yeah. They just, they want as much money as possible, and they want you know, as easily as possible.
BARNHOG: Yeah. They
matt: And it's like, you know, you kind of, like, Filson is one of the best names in in American clothing. Like, and they make, you know, their...
BARNHOG: have a great name.
matt: You know, like like you said, ah you just don't see the quality that they've had over the years in every place. And it's like, please just continue this and and do what you do best without trying to, like, hip yourself something.
matt: Like, maybe they just need someone that understands and, like, loves the clothing for what it is.
BARNHOG: um do i You know, if I knew what they needed, i'd I'd like keep it to myself and be like, I'm gonna do that.
matt: Oh, 100%. 100%.
BARNHOG: And try to like grow and and and like, you know, whatever. But I just, I can't because they're, you know, it's like, man, I picture like a group of people who are separate from the actual situation being like, what can we do to figure this out to like be more productive? And then they just keep trying things that they're just trying things and then trying to look at how it affects it.
matt: so
BARNHOG: You know, typical kind of analysis. Like, it just seems like a ton of risks. They take a ton of risks. Like they do shit sometimes where all the big Filson fans are like, but does why did you just do that? We hate that.
matt: Oh, yeah.
BARNHOG: and
matt: Yeah.
BARNHOG: You know, there's a lot of people still buy it.
Conor Fowler: Well, that's the I mean, that's like, I don't know, I feel like you have to throw it at the wall enough. And so a lot of the weird like collaborations are probably Filson doesn't even figure going to work.
BARNHOG: It gets toxic.
Conor Fowler: But it's like about doing it with the with the thought that like maybe something will happen, right? Like maybe it will be a viral tick tock.
BARNHOG: and And people do talk about it, even if it's a short run and only a handful of people even care if they make it seem like they made a bunch of them and then they really only have 10 a hundred and it still sells and people are still talking about it and they're still moving forward.
BARNHOG: Then, you know, at the end of the day, i don't know how much they really can write off bad, you know, things. I mean, I really,
BARNHOG: I don't know, but it seems like they have like some play and they probably have a rotation of people like where it's not the same designers every time.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: So it's not the same. It doesn't look like the same thing they put out last time. It's like kind of, they might have a mix of a few different people that have different, or maybe they even buy some designs from people, or maybe they go through their, you know, who knows where they just pull some of this stuff out.
BARNHOG: A lot of it looks like the same old imported crap, unfortunately, like,
matt: Right. Yeah. yeah
BARNHOG: So they probably use their, their heritage stuff, mix it in, still do some in the U S and then just are, you know, it does get boring.
matt: Yeah, there's only, I mean, with with any kind of like more quote-unquote traditional menswear, you're never like really reinventing the wheel.
BARNHOG: Unfortunately, even the cool stuff.
BARNHOG: Yeah.
matt: It's like, oh, cool, you know, we have these eight fabrics that we're going make in this shirt that we've been making the same way, just, you know, imported now for fucking 75 years.
BARNHOG: Yeah. Yeah.
BARNHOG: I'm trying to reinvent it. That's where I'm at on things. um And it feels like you you end up really entering too almost technical of a of an area for a lot of people where it's just like, where it might, like at first it's just too new and people are like, well, that's like, you know, like what's the deal with that? Like, why would you do that?
BARNHOG: Like more, i don't know, like, I've made some vests to have real technical, weird lines and patterns where like where the pockets are.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: And it just looks real kind of techno and technical. And it's just, I mean, how do you really break out of something traditional, like a traditional work or thing? I mean, really, it just starts to get too frivolous looking in a way where it's, it's kind of an interesting point in time.
matt: Totally.
matt: Yeah. i hate extreme i really hate
BARNHOG: What's that?
matt: I hate extraneous shit. Like, you and I talked about this, personally, but, like...
Conor Fowler: Like the H and M dude, the H and M detail, like this is a zipper that doesn't do anything.
BARNHOG: Oh, yeah.
BARNHOG: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, Yeah, that kind of shit, or, like, sewing...
BARNHOG: The trippy, like the trippy 90s stuff that had all the buckles and everything hanging all over it.
matt: Right, yeah. Like, anything that doesn't...
BARNHOG: That type of stuff.
matt: If it doesn't serve a purpose, what's the fucking point?
BARNHOG: Yeah. Which I, I'm like, I'm like a funny balance of, of, uh, you know It's like kind of you get natural distressing, for example.
BARNHOG: It's like what, which it's arguable if that serves a purpose or not, because I do like natural camouflage stuff and things that are kind of naturally breaking up the outline. So arguably when you have a distressed, you know, because I'll take like a tarp that's
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: chewed up or whatever and make something out of it and it's like, what is the point to make a utility utilitarian thing that takes you so much freaking time above just getting ah something that was decent to start with?
BARNHOG: You know, what is the point? And other than, you know, I like to make art and it's, it's, it's, you know, the challenge of it and whatever
matt: right
Conor Fowler: it's art, right? It's, it's like conservation in a way.
BARNHOG: is
Conor Fowler: It's a sustainable practice, right? Like if you're taking something that is old, then and it's not a new piece of plastic.
BARNHOG: you know
BARNHOG: i I'm all about that. I like to find, like, especially if something's not, like, cool. Like, it might just be, like, a green, I mean, green tarps and stuff. That shit's all cool now. People, I think, just really, they love the shit.
BARNHOG: But to find something, you know, it's like to find a stifle, freaking, you know, a piece of fabric where you're just like, this is so, this thing is like so special, you know, to cut it and to make something out of versus just something that's still special.
BARNHOG: But ah I don't even remember where I was going specifically, but the green, oh, I like taking shit that's worthless.
Conor Fowler: Hmm.
BARNHOG: Basically. I like to find
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: the The thing where it's like if if a whole bunch of resellers were together going, oh, I'm going to resell. like Okay, i dibs on that. I got someone that's going to buy that. Okay, and then what's the thing left? The shitty-ass tarp that's like half rotten. And I'm going to go, let me get that.
BARNHOG: I'm going to turn that into the coolest thing out of all the shit that was here. And that's kind of what I try to do is take the thing that's worth the least. And that's like stonemasonry. I mean, what is it?
BARNHOG: You know, turn down a barn where they're just like, we're going to burn it for practice. And that's how it used to be around here. And they don't really burn them anymore. I think that the, you know, environmental, they don't want big fires raging and, you know, you got roofing material, but they used to just burn this shit and it was practically worthless, you know, like barn wood.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
matt: Right. So...
Conor Fowler: Wow. Right?
matt: so
Conor Fowler: Well, no, and now it's it's quite lucrative, I imagine.
BARNHOG: It's yeah, I think that it's it's like peaked and stabilized where there was like a point in time where Barnwood was like the hot it was. Now it's textile.
BARNHOG: Now it's clothing. I think, you know, clothing now is more popular.
matt: Yeah, yeah. I see so much fucking reclaimed wood at yard sales, and I'm like, you're trying to sell this for like $75? Bro, come bro
BARNHOG: Was that recently?
matt: ah Yeah, I mean, i see like, I didn't see, okay, I will say, i just went to a lot of yard sales a few weeks back, I didn't see as much of it.
BARNHOG: Yeah.
matt: But there's still plenty of people that have just like, a pile of driftwood that they're trying to sell for, you know, more than an actual lumber costs.
BARNHOG: Because they all heard.
matt: And I'm, yeah, yeah.
BARNHOG: They all heard. Everybody heard about it now. The jig is up.
matt: Right, yeah. I mean, people in rural fucking Tennessee and Kentucky don't really, yeah you know, I'm sure they're not as hip to things as people that are, you know, and our in more of our positions.
BARNHOG: and
BARNHOG: It's the same here where people... they they they like hear that the barnwood's valuable, but they don't really know what type of ah barnwood is valuable and they don't know how to handle it to keep it valuable.
matt: Right, right.
BARNHOG: And then to like display it and say, Ooh, look at this one.
matt: Yeah.
BARNHOG: You know, they just throw it in a pile and let it get rained on and sit in the sun. And then it's like green and gray with the tarp still partly on it.
matt: right
BARNHOG: And it's, but it's reclaimed.
matt: Yeah.
BARNHOG: So then of course it's still reclaimed.
Conor Fowler: Right. Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: So it has to be valuable, but it's, Unfortunately, that's probably most of the clothing, too, is that like the goods. It's like people take good stuff and they're like, well, you know, let's donate the stuff that's decent hanging in the closet.
BARNHOG: And then the stuff that's like a little bit scrubby in those boxes, just toss those. They kind of stink. And it's like, wait, the stuff in the boxes is the stuff.
matt: Yeah.
BARNHOG: But it's just totally thrown out.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
BARNHOG: Barnes are similar.
matt: hundred
BARNHOG: I feel like a lot of the good shit is already burned. which makes it more valuable. I mean, that's really why if the stuff was everywhere, it wouldn't be that special. If everybody's grandma's closet had a freaking, you know, the coolest shit, then everybody be like, well, that's ordinary.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: So
matt: Yeah, we would we would be back in the 90s again when that was kind of the case.
BARNHOG: yeah, we'd all just be eating freaking, i don't even know, whatever, freaking onions and freaking nothing, next to nothing.
Conor Fowler: Crepes. Didn't they eat a lot of crepes in the nineties?
BARNHOG: We'd be living like it was the 20s and 30s because there'd be no market. We'd just be like, look at up everybody has cool stuff already. So we don't have any reason to buy anything or sell anything. and We'll just eat what is in the garden and keep fixing what we got.
BARNHOG: But instead, we're all like driving up the value of vintage clothing and being like, well, you can't even get stuff like this anymore at all.
matt: There we go.
BARNHOG: So this one's worth five grand and like eating Burger King and whatever.
matt: Right.
matt: Yeah.
BARNHOG: I mean, I don't eat Burger King, but...
matt: Good call.
BARNHOG: People obviously do.
matt: so
Conor Fowler: No.
matt: They do.
Conor Fowler: They're actually our next sponsor.
matt: Yeah, yeah. we're We've been waiting been waiting to announce that.
Conor Fowler: I'm going to have to wear a crown.
BARNHOG: have no problems with that. I'm not here to judge you for your freaking being crowned into the, I mean, either whether they sponsor you or not, they're pumping the smoke in my town and I could smell it every time we go across there.
Conor Fowler: Listen.
matt: but why why eat with
BARNHOG: Just like, why do we got to smell burgers? Is that burgers?
matt: what why dine with a clown when you can eat with a king you know uh so troll i think that's that's some marketing thing that i've just committed to memory sadly uh
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Right. That's right.
BARNHOG: When you put it that way, that's what we all need. We need a shtick that really sells trash to like our fellow humans.
BARNHOG: like
matt: If we had no principles, it would be great.
BARNHOG: That's making it. that's making it
Conor Fowler: Matt, I hate to break it to you, but I think if Burger King approaches us, even with like a $20 deal, we got to take it.
matt: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, I mean, I do get it. When I'm in the middle of nowhere, and, like, Burger King or Subway is the only option I've got, I'm gonna go Burger King.
BARNHOG: it
Conor Fowler: You got to go Burger King because Subway, everything is made out of plastic.
matt: it Well, well, so...
BARNHOG: as it
matt: Yeah, they had the impossible, which um I call myself a practical vegan. i know that there's probably some cross-contamination meat. I'm not a fucking, you know, I'm not one of those, I don't know, fucking...
Conor Fowler: It's not a purity exercise.
BARNHOG: You probably, you'd have to go crazy.
matt: I'm not an edgelord. Yeah, so I tried...
BARNHOG: You're not.
matt: So Subway has ah vegan patty now um that's available sometimes. I tried it like three months ago, and literally... I threw half the sandwich out for the birds to eat because it was so fucking bad.
BARNHOG: It's like a soy type thing or veggie.
matt: So, yeah. It's, uh...
Conor Fowler: I've actually thought that the impossible opera was decent.
matt: Yeah, it's fine. I wish they had vegan cheese, but, you know, it is.
Conor Fowler: Sure. yeah Without cheese, it would be pretty rough.
matt: I mean, it, like...
BARNHOG: So it's a meat free Whopper.
matt: Yeah, it's a yeah it's it's by that company Impossible, which is like, I try not to eat fake meat as much as a lot of people do, but you know when when' like that's the only option and and I don't really want to like make a peanut butter sandwich, sure.
Conor Fowler: It's a meat analog, yeah.
BARNHOG: Yeah.
matt: But yeah, that said, i I would take a BK endorsement and advertising over ah for basically anything else at this point. Anyway,
Conor Fowler: Yeah. I mean, we're not advertising caliber, but.
BARNHOG: We're calling to you guys.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Yeah, yeah, they're not quite as bad as Halliherton or Nestle.
BARNHOG: Yeah, I think I would not feel negatively towards you if you're like all of a sudden had BK freaking crowns on and shirts and shit.
Conor Fowler: the
matt: anyone at Burger King likes clothes and is listening to this podcast, hit us up. We might be into it. ah
Conor Fowler: right
matt: Anyway, Trollman, so wit when did you start sewing and how did you learn?
BARNHOG: so
BARNHOG: Oh, my first sewing I did as a pretty little-ass kid. My sister still has these, like, they were, believe they were shorts, because they're they they're shorts.
BARNHOG: ah But I embroidered on the front of them when I was a kid, and her kid fits in them now, which I don't think I even fit in these things for that long. oh
matt: Oh, that's awesome.
Conor Fowler: hmm
BARNHOG: Yeah, there's like a yin-yang on the front, and there's a rat, because I'm the year of the rat, 1984.
Conor Fowler: uh we gotta get pictures of the of the yin yang at least that's great
BARNHOG: i'll I'll get some pictures for you. They're cool. They're just like embroidery thread, you know, little hand stitches. um I sewed some other shit around that time.
BARNHOG: My mom had a pair of Chuck Taylors that had the flip up top. They were like ultra high tops. And when you flip them up, they had an alternative color or they were they were like
matt: Oh, yeah.
BARNHOG: ah mustard yellow almost with like a green, turquoise-y green, like as the opposite.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: And she let me cut them up and turn them into a cape for my dinosaur. So I must have been, don't know, I was a kid. That was like the extent of it for maybe the first, I don't even know.
BARNHOG: I don't think I really sewed. I don't even remember sewing much of anything like through high school I just like thrashed my clothes and then moved on.
BARNHOG: I never was really into fixing shit.
BARNHOG: Once I started kind of traveling, i got on this big kick of like living without money. that that This definitely has has a lot to do with like how I got to be the barn hog.
BARNHOG: I was like, I don't need money, and I'm going to prove it.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
BARNHOG: so I just started like living with no money, and people would be like, hey, you sorry-looking homeless dude that looks like a decent enough person. Here's like 20 bucks. I'd be like, oh, I don't want your money. And they'd be like and be like, no, I'm on this thing and no money.
BARNHOG: And they'd be like, okay, well that's stupid, but whatever. And then I'm going to keep it. But I started like fixing my own clothes and making my own clothes and and my own gear. So I'd like go to dumpsters and just get, you know, you can find all kinds of shit, a golf bag.
BARNHOG: For example, you know, cut the hardware off bit or luggage, just whatever.
Conor Fowler: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: And really, i mean, a sewing needle,
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: I don't recall ever like really finding them. I would always just have to come up with one. But I used to like take apart the rope. You get the... like a nylon rope.
Conor Fowler: who
BARNHOG: like The fishing ones are pretty heavy and pretty coarse, but you could find this rope on the side of the road. Some of them, they use them to like tie those big bundles of like corrugated pipe. and It looks like bailing twine, but it's basically like ah strands of polyester.
BARNHOG: and You can sew with this shit. so I would just try to find everything. and and just i mean That's how I started getting really... I don't know if I went to the Filson dumpster before I owned a pair of Filson, but I would go to their dumpster and dumpster dive, because I just would hear about these resources.
BARNHOG: And it was more of doing something with nothing and just you know finding this crap that was thrown out at a thrift store and taking it apart to the point where now you looked at how a pocket was made or, you know because you wanted the zipper, so now you take apart a thing to look at the the zipper.
BARNHOG: Stuff is made all goofy, so it's not like I make anything how most stuff I looked at was made. But you do learn a lot of this stuff. And that really kind of got me more, you know, wanting to make my own items.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: And going through survival school and stuff got me thinking more about taking a wool blanket and turning it into more of a, you know, cave-like cape thing or you know whatever it was and then going from there to wearing filson and being like man this stuff is really cool i want to make a wool shirt i want to make a freaking tin cloth jacket and i'd go to their dumpster get a bunch of little pieces and then hand sew this crap together and make my own which at that point i was just
Conor Fowler: Right.
BARNHOG: Why would you need sewing machines? That's just a burden, you know? It's just a thing to have to take care of. It's gonna just weigh you down. So I didn't get any clothes until maybe five years ago.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Okay.
BARNHOG: So it was a long road of of sewing by hand and just kind of wanting things that I didn't wanna buy, wanting to come up with something that I knew that I could come up with rather than, you know, purchase, essentially.
BARNHOG: The old army blanket, you know,
BARNHOG: survival jacket survival thing that was just like a staple going you know you go to survival school you need itre you're gonna 500 camo wool hoodie maybe some people were but i was just like man i really i wanted a camo hoodie so i got a camo jacket and a camo vest from filson and then i made my own and i saved money and made my own but uh
matt: Right. Right.
BARNHOG: We kind of just really kept evolving slowly. But the first time I was, i was a kid and then was just like, I never even thought about it until I was much, much older, kind of oddly.
matt: right
matt: Yeah, what's what's the thing?
BARNHOG: No, no grandma. My grandma sewed, but she didn't teach me. I never learned from anybody. I just kept like doing it. So I used to do the whole like, you know, you see a lot of the punk street kid clothing where they're doing the dental floss and you're doing the whip stitch, you know, over the edge.
matt: Oh, yeah.
BARNHOG: I was doing almost everything whip stitch over the edge at first, not doing the dental floss because I was just kind of like, Doesn't really seem that strong to me. I don't know. It kind of is strong, but I don't like how... I don't know.
BARNHOG: It was just...
Conor Fowler: not right.
BARNHOG: I don't like shit everyone else is doing either. That's the thing. I was like, well, everyone's already doing that, so I'm going to come up with a way that's just not being done. I'm going to find rope you know and take apart the rope or whatever.
BARNHOG: But yeah, everything was done just that real rough. And then over time, you just... It's almost like laziness and energy conservation. You just learn how to hold the needle and you just learn how to do smaller stitches that are just taking less energy
matt: Thank you.
BARNHOG: and getting them to look cleaner and cleaner. And eventually you're just doing so many of them that you're just hyper fixated on wanting these real clean stitches.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: Over time, you just do it so much that you end up It just, I don't do much hand sewing anymore, but i I've done a little bit recently and I'm like, man, I should do more of that. i'm It feels good.
BARNHOG: ah
matt: Totally.
Conor Fowler: It's hard.
BARNHOG: I'm mostly just a mechanic now.
Conor Fowler: Do you know, do you know much about like Victorian sewing? Like they have very particular ways of doing it all. And they sort of figured out a way to make their bodies machines to do these really tight stitches, really fine work might be something to look into because it's certain ways of holding the needle, certain ways of holding like the fabric together.
Conor Fowler: I don't know. I don't know how to sew, but perhaps.
BARNHOG: I could totally see that. I like to just make shit up. I feel like it really helps to, like, maintain just, like, living in a cave and having, like, these things that look like so, like...
BARNHOG: not like just like kind of rough, I guess, rough and new.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: i try, I like do, I do read a lot of different things. I'll try to just like answer a question and dig through old information and I'll have like an idea or just a question like how, how'd they do that specific thing?
BARNHOG: But I try not to get too, like for someone that's kind of like a preservationist, I try to not get wrapped up too much into like specific things. technique and I have probably under speak well
matt: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: Because you don't want to become like a cosplayer, you know, you don't want to be like making Victorian period pieces in the exact way that they made them then.
BARNHOG: I tend to get like I'd probably read everything about it and be like no I need to know everything about it and why it's better to just use a machine And then I'd be like, oh, yeah, I know all about that.
Conor Fowler: Right. Right.
BARNHOG: I know so much about it that I know that it's even just – it's worth just doing it the way I'm already doing it. Cool.
Conor Fowler: Right.
BARNHOG: Life hack. No, but I do find shit like that ultra interesting because you think about the time these people had.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: Like, it's – mended clothing is like that too.
Conor Fowler: My God. And they're sewing all fucking day.
BARNHOG: I mean, it's like how long – were the winters longer back then? I mean – It seems like they had a lot of time to just, at a certain point, you need this thing done because you're gonna go be back out in the field or whatever you're doing with this clothing. You really, you gotta to keep going. So you're trying to get it done probably in dark or through the winter if it's your you know your favorite freaking summer clothing.
BARNHOG: But yeah, all these tiny stitches and and these like perfect freaking spacings, I mean,
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: It's borderline maniacal, really.
Conor Fowler: Totally.
matt: True.
BARNHOG: i have an old dress, it's it's all hand done.
matt: True.
BARNHOG: And to look at it, it's just really, it's impressive. Even it's kind of rough, which makes it more impressive.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: It makes it look like they weren't as like of a trained you know person. They might've just followed some directions and
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: Victorian, what'd you call it? Just Victorians hand sewing.
Conor Fowler: yeah i think so like it's it's like a whole school basically there's a woman who did a uh her name escapes me but she did a shirt like a woman sherlock holmes costume and she hand sewed it all
matt: Thank you.
BARNHOG: I can totally picture some of the, they do these little, like, it almost looks I don't even know what would you... It's like you tie the threads or you actually do the stitch, but then kind of wrap it back so it gives it more of a decorative look.
BARNHOG: And they'll do like little stitches that kind of tie the stitches to each other.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: Really crazy, intricate stuff.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: I don't even know what you'd...
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: There's probably another more technical name for it. But um yeah, I find that stuff to be super interesting. I actually am not even... I'm not even a sewing person. I mean, really, i am, but I'm more of like a sculptor, if that makes sense, than I am a tailor or an actual cloth smith.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: I would consider myself more of just like a utilitarian sculptor.
matt: Thank you.
BARNHOG: oh So I just try to take a medium and do something with it. So it's led me to be a sewing person, but I actually don't know like shit about sewing.
BARNHOG: If that makes sense.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, well, you are like self taught, right? You weren't like, I don't know, you're not like, you know, you're sort of using the sewing machine as a way to get things done.
BARNHOG: Yeah, I'd say so. i'd say so
Conor Fowler: which I guess is the whole point of the machine, but. Yeah.
BARNHOG: i I try to view all the, cause people are like, why do you have to, why do you have to have 20 something sewing machines? Like, isn't that like redundant and excessive and, you know, like capitalist, like, are you a capitalist pig now, dude? Cause i thought I knew you.
BARNHOG: Like I have had, i have a friend who, I mean, when they asked me why i needed so many machines, that is the tone they asked me in. Like, why?
BARNHOG: um And really, i look at it like that eat like colors, you know, painting or sounds making like music.
matt: Because they have a fucking purpose.
matt: Yeah.
BARNHOG: it could And that's the way I really do view it. It's like I'm building my color palette so that I can really... I mean, the day I sat down and figured out how many machines were utilized to make one high-end wool freaking coat, I was devastated.
matt: Right.
matt: right
BARNHOG: It's a lot of machines. I think like 13 machines. You know, you look up every single freaking one and it's not just one, two, three machines. It's a lot. Well, yeah, to really look at it more.
BARNHOG: if If I were to look at it just as a sewing person, I probably would be doomed because it's so intense. There's so much with, you know, the mechanics. Yeah.
BARNHOG: I mean, every part of it, it's just way more than sewing. And I actually have to separate myself from the machines up where I am now. There isn't a single sewing machine in this room because I can come up here and instead of being around all the machines and thinking about processes and, oh andm I'm trying to get this one set up, but I'm thinking about moving that one over there.
BARNHOG: oh here's this, I gotta get the, I can't get away from that down there. so you know, I'll come up here, get stuff lined up and yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, you can get both of them.
matt: Right. Yes.
BARNHOG: So ultimately I'm not a sewing person. I just like bumble along and like, I'm a visual, i mean, I'm an artist. And i'm I'm trying to, i guess, well, here's one for you.
matt: yeah
BARNHOG: So my last name is Butterbach. German, Austrian, I believe.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
BARNHOG: Butterbach. so and i don't even know if this is true this is something my mom was told she worked at a big knife manufacturer like really most people have heard of it some people have sold it while they were in college but they're made here so somebody called from germany wanting to talk to someone about a knife patent or some crap they were just a normal person
Conor Fowler: wow
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: trying to call for some reason. So they get her, she was a customer service rep. She says what her name is. And they're like, oh my gosh, I know the name. It's like, you know, it means builder of butter in German.
BARNHOG: and And basically the ancestors of the Butterbaud name were butter sculptors who would build these butter sculptures for their royalty or some crap.
BARNHOG: So I don't know if it's true, but it does kind of make sense.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: Because I'm always just moving shit around and trying to make it look cool. So more or less, I mean, really, that's probably the best, you know, sum up of what I do.
BARNHOG: ah Because everywhere I look, I'm just trying to sculpt something else or just move things closer together like metal. I'm working on these I haven't worked or even done anything towards it other than mentally, but these lamps that are like part stone masonry, part stained glass, part concrete and like electrical, it's a lamp.
BARNHOG: um But I've just been moving pieces into piles and getting them closer that will work for these lamps, whether it's metal, you know, could be wiring, stone, whatever it is. So that's kind of like what I do. I just keep preparing for sculpting these little things. And the clothing is, you know, it's a lot of the clothing I have that people love so much is stuff that I made for me to wear. And I was just like, I want it to look a certain way. And I got to get this thing done pretty quick, because I need to get out there wearing it.
BARNHOG: And now I don't really even do that that much because I don't run around. I don't really tear down buildings anymore. i don't run around doing masonry for hire. I just kind of work on sewing machines and that doesn't really even wear your clothing out. I mean, it just gets it stained up in oil and crappy looking.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
BARNHOG: So it's an inevitable it's just a constant evolution.
matt: Well,
matt: hell yeah. Well, but before we get out of here, we would be remiss not to ask about the compound and just what the deal with it is.
BARNHOG: yeah
matt: Like, I followed it personally from talking to you, but like, just give us a little rundown, you know, ah as like as loosely or as tightly as you want to.
BARNHOG: You're talking about the fourth world industrial arts compound.
matt: Yes, I am the Fourth World Industrial Arts Compound.
Conor Fowler: That's right. That's right.
BARNHOG: So I, I was given the opportunity through
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah.
BARNHOG: my own inability to just be chill. I always, I'm just, ah just wanted more, wanted something bigger and wanted more control over my own situation and destiny, I found this building.
BARNHOG: First, I hadd just seen it driving by and I was like, we were looking for a new spot because we had a feeling this corporation was going to be buying where our old shop was. So I was like feeling it out.
BARNHOG: I seen this spot. And it wasn't for sale, but I looked up all this shit about it on the tax information. I tried to find out everything about it. And then I just kind of forgot about it.
BARNHOG: But eventually the guy put up a for sale sign with no phone number. And i hung I found, yeah, he it had no number.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: um It was like a thing. Come to find out it was like a thing between him and his girlfriend where the number was – his marker was dead and he kind of wrote it on there, but it was faded. And then she was like, well, something about the number and da-da-da. he was like, if anyone wants it, they're going to they're going to find me and and buy it. It doesn't even need the number.
BARNHOG: Then the sign blew away.
matt: right
BARNHOG: and I was just like trying so hard to find this freaking guy. ah He was dodging code, all this stuff. So, yep, it was – a old cargo depot from the early 1900s all concrete concrete roof freaking it was a very abandoned building when we got it i mean dead cats water pouring through the roof just awful condition uh and now it's full of sewing machines it's only about one third not even awful it's like one third
BARNHOG: Leaky and rough. ah But like not full of trash anymore.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: So yeah, it's, I'll, I'll be sharing more.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: It's hard to share. Cause I'm like, if I just wait a little bit, it'll be more of like ah morning after then years go by.
matt: Yeah, yeah. We don't want you to give the game away.
BARNHOG: and cause it's, it's, it's, it's amazing. I mean, I could, I could sum it up kind of like, imagine living in a Video game, kind of like a Max Payne type thing.
BARNHOG: I don't know if you guys have played that where I had on I think, like a Game Boy thing or something.
Conor Fowler: Sure.
BARNHOG: The dude goes around. It seems like you're always in the hallway of a hospital looking for pills. is really...
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
BARNHOG: you Max Payne's thing is like, you're you're taking these pain pills to get your energy up. But ah it's like you're always in a corridor, ah like a medical corridor that's like leaky.
BARNHOG: And that's pretty much what, like imagine a leaky medical corridor that was like a sewing fight club where you were just like, like, am i here in my own mind?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
BARNHOG: Like it seems like you should have like a whole crew of like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle like level freaking like teenagers and and like cronies and shit just like all over.
BARNHOG: i mean.
Conor Fowler: What did you say? A leaky medical corridor also in Fight Club.
BARNHOG: you know how Fight Club is just that big empty house that's kind of like dark and shadowy and there's always like an area off to the side that's just kind of like you're like.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Right, right.
BARNHOG: Like I'm not even a huge, I'm not like a, i don't prescribe, like I don't, you can't ask me shit about fight club. I won't be able to answer it. I mean, I know the whole type.
Conor Fowler: you're not a Chuck Palahniuk fan.
matt: No, no, it's fine.
BARNHOG: We can't be talking about it.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, no, we're not going to ask about Mike Lund.
BARNHOG: But that like darkness of it where it's like always kind of raining and he's always like in his head. That's kind of how I feel about the depot here.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
BARNHOG: Cause it seems like it's always dimly lit the way that the it's always pretty well lit, but it's like got a big basement. So it just seems like you're always in this kind of abandoned mega structure.
matt: Right, right.
BARNHOG: Like part of a crew that doesn't exist because it's like he does go do the fight club thing, but he's there alone all the time. And that's how it feels here, even though
Conor Fowler: Well, we don't want we don't want to give away the ending of the movie to the 15 year old movie.
matt: Yeah.
BARNHOG: Fourth world industrial arts movie.
matt: And on it, yeah.
BARNHOG: It's just, it's just Barnahog alone in his building for his whole life.
Conor Fowler: Right.
BARNHOG: Just like with it. It's not even rain. He's just crying to himself.
Conor Fowler: There is no girlfriend.
BARNHOG: I know it's just, there's not even any dogs. He's just crying into his cold coffee.
matt: Not even...
Conor Fowler: Wow, dude.
matt: ah
BARNHOG: No, it's,
matt: Well, yeah, that's ah that's a pretty apt description, I feel like. And makes sense.
BARNHOG: that That sums it up the best. It seems like it's, even in its change over time, it seems like a video game corridor, like a 007 type thing, you know, where it's an industrial infrastructure.
matt: Oh, yeah, yeah.
BARNHOG: You know, it seems like a abandoned city water treatment place that you'd go to fight the Joker before you threw him into the freaking vat of whatever was left there.
BARNHOG: It's cool. It's very cool.
matt: Well, hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah.
matt: Well, we will be looking out for updates and yeah. Shit's been real fun today, man.
BARNHOG: i'm
matt: Thanks for coming on.
BARNHOG: I appreciate the time.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, for real.
BARNHOG: It's ah been a pleasure. I hope I was able to satisfy some of of your guys' curiosities.
matt: Oh yeah. Yeah. This was, this was great.
Conor Fowler: The full portrait.
BARNHOG: back
BARNHOG: It's hard. I know it's hard. It's hard to get ah like a picture of what's going on here because it is so so multifaceted. I feel like a lot of like each different people have their own kind of snapshot of like who I am and what I do and what's going on here.
matt: Right. Yeah, totally.
matt: right
BARNHOG: ah So it's it's nice to be able to actually like converse.
matt: yeah so
Conor Fowler: Yeah, well, it's a been a delight. I have been intensely curious. So, I mean, I feel like this is like a small glimpse into the into the barn hog saga.
matt: Thank
Conor Fowler: And I think, too, like you you look like ah
Conor Fowler: you look like you're in a bunker slash cave.
BARNHOG: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: So you're kind of going for it.
BARNHOG: Hold on. Check this out. um The ceiling used to leak so much that it's...
Conor Fowler: Wow.
BARNHOG: You see that? It looks like the freaking ceiling is dripping. It's just like calcium select.
Conor Fowler: Hastalactites?
BARNHOG: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Right.
BARNHOG: It's very, it's very cave-like here.
Conor Fowler: Wow, dude.
BARNHOG: Yeah, no, this place is practically ancient. I mean, concrete at the point when they built this building was so new. ah So yeah, it's very old feeling. It does feel like a cave.
BARNHOG: I feel fortunate to have something so cool to just traipse around in, working, you know
matt: Fuck yeah.
matt: Well, everyone wants to know who you are Shout out to your account. Shout out what else you would like to. And we'll wrap it up.
BARNHOG: i shit really shout out to him people who think what I'm doing is interesting, really. And to the people who take the time to tune into what you're doing, because I know it's hard.
BARNHOG: It's hard for everyone to bust out of their shell and be interested and you know, others. I feel like we live in a very self-absorbed world now. So shout out to all the people who take time to tune into what you've put your energy into here, as well as the people who are interested in, in, uh, hearing, you know, what Barnhog has to say.
matt: here.
matt: Oh, yeah.
BARNHOG: that does it for me.
matt: All right. And you're at Barnhog on Instagram.
BARNHOG: Yep. Yep.
matt: And yeah, at wait, fourth world has an Instagram also, right?
BARNHOG: Yep.
BARNHOG: Yeah. Fourth world industrial arts does have one. It's very inactive. Um, clandestine sewing labs.
matt: But follow for updates.
BARNHOG: i I should be doing up. I'm not very good at it. I'm much better at but at like coming up with ideas and writing them on paper and then being like, Oh, that would be really cool to do.
matt: Right.
BARNHOG: And then I just, I don't, uh,
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
BARNHOG: Barnhog is the best spot for anybody to kind of really see what I'm doing right now.
matt: Okay. Cool.
BARNHOG: the The rest is kind of just, just like waiting.
matt: Cool.
BARNHOG: Everybody's just kind of chilling like, all right, is he taking a nap or what?
Conor Fowler: this
matt: Well, everyone go follow at Barnhog on Instagram.
BARNHOG: but
BARNHOG: You can definitely follow Barnhog. I'll promote everything else on there, like yeah at one point or another, so.
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
BARNHOG: Awesome.
Conor Fowler: Well, that'll do it. And thanks for listening to us. We Connor Flower and.
matt: At Rebels Rogues.
Conor Fowler: and
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's been fun chatting. um I feel like I have some research to do of my own. So thank you.
BARNHOG: Nice. Yeah, I wrote down the Victorian hand sewing thing. I'm going to look it up a bit.
Conor Fowler: yeah so we'll yeah well that's a good that's a good guest so thank you
BARNHOG: I put a little pad here to write to write stuff down, and that's the only thing I wrote down to look up.
BARNHOG: So thank
matt: Alright, y'all, we're we are at apoclopestuds on Instagram, apoclopestuds at gmail.com, and we will see you next week.
Conor Fowler: righty bye bye
