Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
154. Remembering Our Loved Ones in Life and Death- Kate Anderson
154 Plays2 years ago
Welkin Memorials founder, Kate Anderson, lost her own father unexpectedly at a young age and was forced to choose between the outdated memorial options the industry provides, so she leveraged her experience in product development to design a product that is both aesthetically pleasing and functional. To make the tough times a little easier for others, Welkin offers handmade, decorative and discreet urns at a fair price point, designed with kin in mind.
https://welkinmemorials.com/?utm_source=partner&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=gg&g
https://www.instagram.com/welkinmemorials/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateanderson11/
https://www.facebook.com/welkinmemorials/
https://www.pinterest.com/welkinmemorials/
Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be a guest on the podcast:
https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Recommended
Transcript
The Birth of a Unique Business Idea
00:00:00
Speaker
I really wanted to explain why I created this business to start with. A lot of people have purchased my urn after having their loved one's remains for years and they never found anything that like reflected their loved one and their personal aesthetic. And so this is the first time that they've actually purchased an urn and they've gotten to take the remains out of the box in the closet and put them on display and have that more of a memorialized space.
00:00:28
Speaker
And so I just personally really love hearing those stories. Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:00:59
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
Meet the Founder: Kate Anderson
00:01:22
Speaker
Thanks for joining us on today's episode. Today, I am chatting with Kate Anderson. She is the founder of Wellcome Memorials. She specializes in making handmade decorative and discreet urns, and it is another way of remembering your loved ones. Welcome, Kate. Thank you so much for having me, and a big thank you to you and your listeners.
00:01:48
Speaker
Really excited to chat with you about how we're modernizing the art industry.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yes, and I am so excited to hear about your story as to how it is you ended up in this industry. And as I'm seeing you here in this conversation, you are very young and you're here a business owner and creating all this. So I'm really looking forward to learning the why. So Kate, let's start off with sharing where is it that you live right now? I live in New York, Manhattan specifically.
00:02:20
Speaker
Okay. How is this where you grew up? No, I'm originally from Arizona and that was actually where I started welcome to begin with, but then I moved out to New York.
00:02:29
Speaker
really wanted to experience a new city and I've always wanted to live here. So once COVID settled down a bit, I made the journey. That is quite the contrast between Arizona and New York City. Have you experienced already a winter in New York? Yes, I have a couple winters under my belt. Thankfully, this last one was pretty mild. But yeah, I think what I found most shocking is the humidity here in the summer versus the dry heat in Arizona. That was something I wasn't expecting.
00:02:59
Speaker
We're in Arizona, the Phoenix metro area. I'm happy that you have found a new home and that you're liking your New York life. Yeah, it's really great. There's such an entrepreneurial spirit here. And I just really love all the energy that goes into creating a business and being surrounded by people who are doing the same thing.
00:03:18
Speaker
So how is it that you ended up in this space? So let's backtrack a few years. Your father passed away when you were...
Personal Tragedy and Inspiration
00:03:28
Speaker
It was a week before my 22nd birthday. It was an unexpected death. I heard about it at dinner, actually. Someone called my phone.
00:03:36
Speaker
and let me know and I was the next of kin. And so I was left to navigate the funeral planning, all of, you know, the state and cleaning out the home. Everything was left to me. I was given the keys and here you go. Happy planning. And my dad was a very outdoorsy man. And so I wanted to plan something that was outdoors and
00:04:00
Speaker
you know, a positive celebration of life and bringing family member that family members I hadn't seen in a long time together, but similar to most people, um, you have a very short timeline to do this. The expectation, you know, is within the next week or so. And so when trying to do that, figuring out permits to have it in a park or just any sort of out of the box, non-traditional thinking was really hard during that time, especially being so young, I had never thought I would have to plan something like that.
00:04:29
Speaker
And so coming out of that experience, holistically, I was like, there's got to be a way to improve this for everyone else, like for the future me's of the world. And so I kind of just thought on the idea, again, I was super young very early in my career. I think it was, he'd passed, I wasn't even in my career at that point. I was in college. What were you studying at that time? Communication. Yeah. Graduating in May, he passed away in
00:04:54
Speaker
January, so very short before my graduation. I had no idea really what I was going to be doing with the rest of my life. And so I just kind of sat on that idea for years that I wanted to
Designing for Discreet Memorialization
00:05:05
Speaker
do something. I just didn't know what quite yet. And then fast forward a few years, I was a product developer at a digitally native company, Tuft and Needle. It was based in Phoenix. And we talked a lot about disrupting the mattress industry and what other industries that were traditional had areas of improvement. And I would always like
00:05:23
Speaker
about the funeral industry and so I just thought about it as a whole and then I was reading a book and everybody always tells you to start with what you know and I knew products in the dark to consumer space so I was like okay I'm gonna build a product for this industry because that was
00:05:39
Speaker
one of the tougher parts during everything that I had to choose was, um, you know, you're handed this catalog, which ended up itself has outdated and they're like, okay, choose a nerd that, you know, you're going to put your father's remains in basically for, you know, ever because you don't really think about like transferring them at that point. So you're like flipping through the pages, trying to find one that you think memorializes them, but matches your own aesthetic in the same way.
00:06:08
Speaker
Obviously I netted zero there. I ended up choosing one just for the ceremony that had like ducks etched across it. Cause he again liked the outdoors, but I wasn't going to have that in my home, especially as a 22 year old. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to design and earn that I would want in my home, you know, memorializes them, but also matches my aesthetic. And the discreet part came into play because I didn't want to have friends over necessarily. And it be this thing that's on a bookshelf and be like a sore conversation starter.
00:06:37
Speaker
And so I wanted something that you meant something to you when you looked at it, but like the average passerby or someone comes over, they didn't necessarily know what it was. It could be a topic of conversation if you wanted it to be, but it doesn't have to be something that
00:06:56
Speaker
stands out. And so I created a welcome, slowly but surely. No, and it's beautiful. So explain to us what the urns or the vases, vases, what is the right pronunciation, vase, vase, what... I don't know. I say vase, but I think plenty of people say vase too.
00:07:16
Speaker
Well, I guess, depending where you're from and how you're going to pronounce it. So explain to us what it looks like since the listeners, of course, when they go to your website, they can see more specifically, but can you describe what it looks like? So it's a handmade ceramic vase.
00:07:32
Speaker
where there are two separate compartments, that's important, because a lot of people think it's just a vase that you put flowers in the top and the remains in the bottom, and they are completely separate because you wouldn't want them to be combined. And if I was selling that, it would just be a vase, it wouldn't be an urn. But yeah, so the top part is a separated vase that you can put in dried floral arrangements, small floral arrangements, eucalyptus, nothing if you want it to just be more of like a ceramic piece,
00:08:01
Speaker
And then the bottom is the vessel for your loved one's remains, and you insert those through a funnel, and there's a plug that's similar to an old school traditional piggy bank style in that sense. So you can put the remains in the bottom. They're secure in there, separated from the top base.
00:08:20
Speaker
So walk us through the process of someone having their remains there. Is it something that Welkin does? Let's say, are the ashes sent to you and then you put them? Or does the person receive the ashes in a box or a bat? I don't know how it is because I have never done cremation. So how is that process?
00:08:43
Speaker
Yes, so the process is typically that the crematorium will do that for you if you are planning in advance so you can purchase our earn and have it shipped there. We have plenty of customers that do that. A lot of our customers as well are similar to myself where you already purchased something under the pressure and under the short timeline and you're now looking for something essentially like an upgrade or something that you actually want to put on display.
00:09:09
Speaker
You can transfer those remains yourself. We provide the bag, the twist tie to keep it secure, and the funnel to do so. You can also take it again to a company, a crematorium for them to do the transfer. But currently we're just providing the urns, but we do partner with funeral directors and funeral homes, direct cremation companies to have them supply our urns. So we are offered at that start point, but that's obviously like a network that we're trying to build out.
00:09:36
Speaker
What year did you launch your company? December of 2021. So we're still barely now. Yes. And yet you've already achieved all this and all these connections. And this happens to be, by the way, Kate's first podcast. I just found that out. I bought the world's biggest microphone because I figured, you know, it was my first one. I needed all the tech devices to assist me.
00:10:02
Speaker
It will not be your last. That's for sure because you will be networking and sharing your story and what you do in other podcasts as well. Now let's backtrack back again to then when you started then the company. So you already knew how it was that it felt for you when you were
00:10:23
Speaker
having to arrange your dad's funeral yet not being able to honor it in
From Concept to Creation: Overcoming Challenges
00:10:31
Speaker
the way you did. So you had this idea when you were in the design company, right, product design company. You started now. What was the next step? You're like, okay, I have this product. Now what? Like... Yes. So product development takes a shockingly long time.
00:10:48
Speaker
I actually started working on this in late 2018, early 2019. I was working overseas. The product was actually going to be made out of wood. It was a completely different model. And then COVID happened. And so production was completely cut. I started thinking about the design more.
00:11:11
Speaker
I had received some prototypes of my original design and was like, I think this is an opportunity to pivot a little bit. And so I started working on the production here in the US, which I love. They're handmade in the Pacific Northwest, which I think is really special and unique to the earn offering because most are private labeled, which means you're hiring someone else, you're just using their design, and then you're calling it your own. And I really love that. I designed the earn.
00:11:40
Speaker
They're all handmade. There's a video on our homepage that showcases that process. It's such a hands-on experience. But anyways, to answer your question, the
00:11:51
Speaker
That process that design process is really long. So while they we were working through iterations. Through the development and then even, you know, figuring out what color glazes we would want and how they would work with the different clays and such. I had time on the back end to kind of think about, you know, designing the website and I really leaned into
00:12:13
Speaker
when doing competitive research, instead of like going, this was a time when there weren't a lot of companies disrupting this industry in this space. Now there are quite a few more, which I absolutely love. But I went to like the direct to consumer market and said, okay, like how do some of my favorite brands, you know,
00:12:33
Speaker
share the experience of their products and how can I relate that to my experience and what I was looking for. I came up with the minimal viable product on the website to make that happen. I wanted to make sure that I was showcasing my earn.
00:12:50
Speaker
But I also, over time, wanted to be able to share the additional resources for those people during that time. So that's what I started working on as well with a blog of sorts to outline the different resources. Because I think it's really important, whether they come to my site first or go somewhere else, that they only really have to go one place and they can find it all. I might not be able to provide it all, but I can at least steer them in the right direction.
00:13:14
Speaker
And I noticed that when I went on your website that you have the blog and different stories like as to even what to write in a condolence note, you know, how to honor your mom on Mother's Day, your mom if she's died, like all these different
00:13:31
Speaker
Beautiful, you know, yeah, stories and ideas. So it is a beautiful resource even for that. If someone doesn't need an earn, you can at least go there for the different resources you offer. Yes, thank you. Yeah, that was the goal is like, for me, I just didn't even know where to start. And so just having whether they started with the earned selection or whether they started, you know, with
00:14:00
Speaker
the invitations or just things like that or just the funeral planning in and of itself. I think it's important to have all the resources there because this is the toughest time in someone's life and if you can help them through that, that in and of itself is really impactful.
00:14:18
Speaker
So how was it then for you? You said you were the next of kin for your dad. You're mentioning this is the toughest moment of someone's life. When you're 22 and you're living this, not only were you planning then a funeral, you're also then in the grief journey. So what were some of the tools you used at that time or that you were able
00:14:38
Speaker
to find that were helpful for you in your journey? Honestly, there wasn't much back then. And maybe I just didn't know where to look. And now that I'm in the industry, I feel like there's all these resources. Thankfully, I had family members that were super supportive and helped me out through all of that. Because while I had to be the decision maker legally, I could lean on others. But it was a really interesting time. I was the first of my friends to lose a parent.
00:15:07
Speaker
and so they didn't know how to respond. And that's kind of when I'm writing these blogs and how to write a condolence note, how to send text messages to your friends after they lost a loved one, but maybe you're not close enough to call, things like that, because we're all at the point now, at least in my circle of friends where we are experiencing that. And now I'm the one that is the go-to, obviously, probably because I started the business as well, but because I've been there. And so, yeah, there weren't a ton of resources. I didn't find that.
00:15:37
Speaker
were helpful in that process. I went to Pinterest to look at how to plan events, and then I looked at the event decorations and the steps for traditional event planning and tailored it to planning a funeral. But now I feel like there are a lot more resources. So death duels are out there, and those seem really important. And I think that it's
00:16:04
Speaker
going to be a transition from planning and preparing following the death to before the death. I think that's like a trend that will be coming up and will be really helpful for everybody because you'll be able to think more outside of the box and outside of the traditional norms and outside of the catalog that's just given to you.
00:16:26
Speaker
Okay, so we've gone into the process of how it is you created the company. Tell us into who helps you. Is it just you? Is this a one woman show? Do you have other people aside of course, the ones that create the urns, who helps you with the whole process?
Balancing Act: Entrepreneurship and Stability
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah, so it's not a one-woman show, but it is a one-woman show in the sense that I partner with a lot of contractors. So I use a manufacturer and a fulfillment center, and then I leverage experts in the field.
00:17:00
Speaker
to help with PR and social media and all those kinds of things. And I really have started relying heavily on working with partners this year, which is why I reach out to you to really work to meet the customer, you know, where they're at in their journey. And so while day to day it is just me, I do work with a handful of select contractors and partners to help get me through it because you really need a village.
00:17:27
Speaker
Cause it is a lot of work. So when you're thinking like, okay, website development, cause you said, I think you created initially created your own website, correct? Yep. And then did you then hire someone else to go deeper in it? Like you said, like got contractor and especially then social media person, like, because there's a lot of times that we have ideas yet.
00:17:51
Speaker
we end up freezing, even just going with the podcast, even something somebody wants to start a podcast like, well, I don't know how to do this. Or, you know, something as simple freezes us from developing and coming into fruition into an idea, but you had an idea and you did not let your limitations block you from achieving it. So there's a lot of people that want to put their ideas out there.
00:18:15
Speaker
Definitely. So when I, when I started working on Welkin, I was more solely in product development at that time in my career since, you know, working through the product development phase of Welkin, I pivoted more into like marketing experience and whatnot over those years. And so I do have like a general understanding of that, that sector. Um, but I did need to, yes, rely on.
00:18:41
Speaker
people to help me with the customer journey and throughout the website, what that would really look like, social media, consulting on
00:18:51
Speaker
different avenues there and influencers and partnering there. Influencers are really odd in this space. It's not really common, but I do try and work on gifting earns where I can to just help reach a new customer audience and whatnot. And so while I do have a general understanding, I really need to lean into those who specialize.
00:19:14
Speaker
on paid media, like on paid ads, and what that looks like, you know, when I can start incorporating those into my budget and everything because experts are really needed, at least for to consult you in the right direction when you're starting out.
00:19:31
Speaker
And when you were starting out, were you still then working a nine to five type of job as you were starting your company? And are you still doing that now or are you full 100% in welcome? Yes. Do you like a shark tank question? It's okay. Yes, to both. So I've considered it, you know, a couple of times like leaving.
00:19:54
Speaker
the workplace to do Welkin entirely, but I really want to scale and grow Welkin as I see fit, and I want to do it right. And so I don't want to just jump into it and try and sell as many earns as possible just to be able to do so. I want to grow it and scale it as I envision it, really to make sure the customer is at the forefront there and that I'm making all the decisions
00:20:21
Speaker
very like considered and rather than just rushing into something and feeling more obliged to make this sale rather than it more like a personal experience.
00:20:34
Speaker
That makes so much sense. Yeah, you don't want this desperation and especially in this industry in which like you said, you do have to be very considered. People are coming into this space in their hardest moment of their lives. Yeah, one of the hardest moments in their lives. You want to be respectful of that.
00:20:57
Speaker
And also it takes, regardless of whether it was this industry or another industry, it does take sometimes five years to even break even in most industries. So it is wise to still make sure you have a way to pay your dues, your rent. Well, and then I'm able to use the funds back into walk-in and like think about what the next design is and think about,
00:21:22
Speaker
You know, we just launched a small size because not one size fits all anymore when it comes to earns because a lot of people just burst them amongst family members or want to spread most of them somewhere like myself, but keep a small portion for yourself because it feels really committal to get rid of all of them. So I wanted to be able to use those funds back into the business more so than worrying about myself.
00:21:45
Speaker
No, that makes a lot of sense. That's very considerate of you and just very wise again for this young entrepreneur. So what type of work are you doing now? Are you still in the design, product design? No, I run marketing and partnerships at a startup. So similar space, just like a little bit larger than me and has a bit more of a piggy bank.
00:22:09
Speaker
They've raised some funds, so we have the support there. I do have that. Okay. Now, how has the response been and what's the response been? What do you hear back from your customers as they are doing this process of purchasing the urns?
Connecting with Customers
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, that has been the best part about creating this business altogether. I think it is the personal feedback. Of course, everybody wants reviews and wants customer insights, but I really wanted to explain why I created this business to start with. A lot of people have purchased my earn after having
00:22:47
Speaker
their loved ones remains for years and they never found anything that like refelt like reflected their loved one and their personal aesthetic and so this is you know the first time that they've actually purchased an urn and they've gotten to take the remains out of the box in the closet and put them on display and have that of more of a memorialized space and so I just personally really love hearing those stories
00:23:12
Speaker
or people purchasing them for pets and they feel the certain colors reflect their pets in a different way and then they can put the leash over the neck of the vase. That's so sweet. Yeah. Like all the just the personal stories are just, that's like what really makes this something I want to continue to do for forever is just
00:23:37
Speaker
making those tough times a little bit easier on the other people and hearing how we've done so. Or even someone purchased the urn their mother loved, you know, flowers. So she always used to have an urn with next to it was a vase. Now it can be like a one piece for both of those components and switch out the florals, you know, on different holidays or seasons, etc.
00:24:01
Speaker
How big is the compartment? Like you said, it's like a piggy bank. Are there any other ways in which someone could use the urn and what's inside that compartment in order to honor their loved one? Let's say someone did not do cremation. So what is another way in which the vase can be used?
00:24:21
Speaker
Yeah, there's two that come to mind based on customer experiences that have been shared. One is that they opted for compost for their loved one, but getting rid of all of it felt super committal. And so they were able to just put a small portion of them in a sealed compartment within the urn.
00:24:40
Speaker
So they were able to have that within their home while still going with the wishes of their loved one of composting rather than cremation, but they wanted to keep a small component just because getting rid of them all felt committal. The second one, this one was really creative and I loved it a lot. They had purchased an urn, but then really wanted to memorialize their loved ones. So they chose sand from one of their favorite beaches that they used to go to growing up and put them
00:25:07
Speaker
in the bottom of the vessel. And that's like the way that they could memorialize them even though they were buried. That is a great idea. Personally, I didn't do cremation for my mother or we didn't do creation. Some religions also don't allow for cremation. So the part of still having something there that reminds you
00:25:36
Speaker
of them and like you said, even if you just use the top portion to put the flower that reminds you of your loved one, then that in itself is also meaningful.
00:25:51
Speaker
It is all really up to the person that's grieving as to what is going to also help them in their in their grief journey and what would mean something to them. So the fact that you have that flexibility to in your urns, it's wonderful. Absolutely. Like my dad and I used to collect coins and little gemstone rocks and whatnot. And I have those all in a box somewhere. So essentially, like if he had an opted or if we had an opted for cremation,
00:26:22
Speaker
We could put those in there because I have those in a box. It's not necessarily out for the public eye, but something I don't want to necessarily get rid of either.
00:26:31
Speaker
Yes, and that's another wonderful way. Now, Kate, is there something I have not asked you that you'd like to share with the audience in terms of the process or even just the grief itself or something about your website?
Planning Ahead for Personalized Memorials
00:26:51
Speaker
Anything you'd like to share? I think the thing that's most important for this industry right now and the
00:27:02
Speaker
the learning curve of it all is really to think about it and talk about it in advance because there are options out there to plan a funeral that feels more like a party, to have floral arrangements that don't necessarily scream funeral and more creative options. And I know that people are working on a variety of different things within the space to document someone's life and to share it out accordingly and to just make that
00:27:28
Speaker
experience more positive than negative. And so the more pre-planning that you can do in advance, it really lets you think outside of the box and not do things just because they feel they should be done that way. And I think that's the biggest thing that I've learned of this is that if I just had a little bit more time, I wouldn't have had to flip through that catalog. I probably could have found something. It would have been a little bit more challenging back in the day.
00:27:53
Speaker
But now there are a ton of resources looking to provide a more positive experience and it is something that we're all going to come across. So take time to consider it and plan in advance because then you will get to have something that really reflects you and your loved one and that's really a gift for them too because all the planning that goes into it's really hard during
00:28:14
Speaker
you know, this time of grief and sometimes you don't grieve accordingly because you're in full planning mode. So I think that's like the biggest takeaway and that's why I welcome there is to ride, you know, to make the tough times a little bit easier. So if there's any questions or stories, we're here for that and we definitely love to be a part of it. It's so true of making the tough times a little bit easier. Is that the little
00:28:41
Speaker
It's in our, like throughout our copy on our site. Yeah. Because I think it's just like one component of the process. And we really lean into like the direct to consumer experience. So like the free returns, free shipping, unlimited warranty, those kinds of things, just to make it like one last thing that you have to worry about.
00:28:59
Speaker
Okay, now tell us how people can get in touch with you. Your website, and I know you're on different social media sites, so share with the audience, please, Kate. Yeah, so our website is welcomememorials.com. Our Instagram handle and Facebook are the same. They're also all linked on our website. We have a YouTube video of how it's made, which is on our homepage of our website, but it's also on YouTube. It's called Welcome Earn Production.
00:29:25
Speaker
And yeah, if you ever have anything you would like assistance for or any questions about our urns, our email is hello at welcome, W-E-L-K-I-N, memorials.com. And to make it a little easier to remember, the word welcome means heaven or sky. But if you separate out the root words, well means good and kin means relations. And so to me, it's like good relations during life's most challenging times.
00:29:49
Speaker
I was missing asking you that, so I'm so glad that you came and shared that because I was like, at the beginning when I saw the name, I was like, okay, I'm going to ask her what it means, if it's a family name. But I also thought of the kinship. So repeat again the meaning of welcome. So it's W-E-L-K-I-N. Correct. The word itself means? Heaven or sky. So if you Google welcome, it comes up. But if you separate out the root words,
00:30:19
Speaker
well means good and can means relations and so to me that was like good relations during life's most challenging times and I ultimately wanted this site to be a resource you know to provide you know any
00:30:31
Speaker
unanswered or answered questions for those. I should have noted that when I was talking about creating a company because that arguably was the hardest part was to determine the name for the brand because I just really wanted it to reflect what the company meant to me.
00:30:53
Speaker
I wanted it to be something that I would want to keep and not change out eventually. So I spend a lot of time on that. And how did you find then the name? How did you come across? So many just like different Google searches about law and root words and words about the death industry as a whole and those kinds of things to really come down to it.
00:31:16
Speaker
Well, you did a good job. Thank you. You did a good job putting the right information on Google or nowadays with AI too, I'm sure. Yeah. That can help you also come up with a good name idea if you're ever stuck with that. That's another place where sometimes you get stuck even just naming a company. There's so many.
00:31:38
Speaker
little things like that. And then we just, yeah, we stopped that creative process just because we didn't know just how to do just one step. And yet there's resources out there to help you with that. So thank you so much again, Kate, for coming on the podcast, for sharing your personal journey with grief, as well as the catalyst of creating now this space in which
00:32:06
Speaker
Now, others that are grieving will have a little more ease in that process and find ways of remembering their loved one in a way that really honors them, the loved one, but also means a lot to the person that's grieving. Thank you again. Thank you, Kendra, for creating such an incredible platform to share all these resources and stories for others that are going through it as well.
00:32:32
Speaker
Thank you, Kate. So again, this was Kate Anderson with Welcome Memorials. And again, all the websites are in the show notes. So make sure to check that out. Thank you.
00:32:48
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone,
00:33:13
Speaker
who may need to hear this, please do so. Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.