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Introduction of Jack Whitaker
00:00:01
Conor Fowler
Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of Apocalypse Duds. I am your co-host Connor Flower.
00:00:08
matt
And I am your other co-host, Matt Smith.
00:00:11
Conor Fowler
and today I think the show will be quite a treat. ah This has been in the works for some time. um There have been some scheduling delays, but we are excited to finally present to you Jack Whitaker, a Welsh, Welshman.
00:00:30
Conor Fowler
which I think is a show first. And we have actually already been talking like off the record for 15 minutes. So we figured we would get it on ah and and you know ah let people hear what we're talking about since that's the whole point.
00:00:47
matt
Yeah, yeah. Jack, how's it going today?
00:00:50
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Well, thanks guys. Yeah, ah has been in the works for a while. I've been ah admiring from afar across the pond. Obviously, I think you've had a couple of my fellow, not my fellow countrymen, but a fellow couple of fellow Brits on as well.
00:01:03
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So it's nice to be ah added to the
Jack's Upbringing and Early Fashion Influences
00:01:06
Jack Lewis Whittaker
mix. And then, yeah, I'm really excited.
00:01:06
matt
Right.
00:01:07
Conor Fowler
we reluctantly have We reluctantly have British people on the show.
00:01:11
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Well, can't. Well, you know, since the 1700s, you guys have really held a gripe. So I don't really, I really, ah really don't understand. Apparently something happened. But, you know, apparently you guys beat us at something.
00:01:24
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But I don't really, i don't know.
00:01:26
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Let's move on.
00:01:26
Conor Fowler
Well, and who can say who who can say how that went?
00:01:30
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Again, we added but we had an off day. We were we were we were spread too we were spread too thin. We were have you everywhere but nowhere all at once, as they say.
00:01:36
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:01:36
matt
Right.
00:01:40
matt
I've always, I've always found it hilarious that I personally like, I love British comedy.
00:01:40
Conor Fowler
Right, right.
00:01:46
matt
Obviously music is a huge, huge part of, you know, my life and my love and a lot of English rock bands and and musicians and things.
00:01:56
matt
But yeah, yeah, I have a pretty positive view of the Brits overall, like as people.
00:02:04
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:02:04
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But I think it's it's both ways.
00:02:05
Conor Fowler
Yeah. it and In action, they have made some complicated decisions, let's say.
00:02:10
matt
Right, right.
00:02:11
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Hey,
00:02:11
Conor Fowler
oh
00:02:13
Conor Fowler
You coming...
00:02:13
Jack Lewis Whittaker
hindsight's 20-20. It's, you know, we what we met we we have we but have.
00:02:15
Conor Fowler
Right, right.
00:02:19
Jack Lewis Whittaker
We got
00:02:21
Conor Fowler
Well, so speaking of that, then I wanted to delve into your ah history, I guess, because so you say you're from Wales, but you grew up at least at some portion in
Fashion Evolution and Influence
00:02:34
Conor Fowler
the Middle East. I can't think of places that are more different than that. I mean, I haven't been to a desert, but I have been to Wales and I know that it's not like a desert.
00:02:43
Conor Fowler
So what was that like?
00:02:44
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I'm surprised you're asking, you can't really tell by my tanned complexion that I was born and raised, or born in Wales, raised in the Middle East. But um so i spent the first, I guess it's kind of when I started getting into clothes really as well. But when, ah well, born and raised in Wales, a small village called Pontyclean, parents still live there now, beautiful place. But then around the age of 10,
00:03:09
Jack Lewis Whittaker
my old man got a job ah in the Middle East in Dubai. Well, before Dubai was like,
Shoe Obsession and University Experience
00:03:15
Jack Lewis Whittaker
you know, the cool place to live where everyone with like a hair transplant and influencer lives there now and you all that sort of stuff.
00:03:15
Conor Fowler
Right. Yeah.
00:03:20
Jack Lewis Whittaker
It's, you an know, it's up and coming place.
00:03:21
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:03:23
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So we moved there and then, spent five years so from the age of 9, 10 till 14, living in like, a living Dubai, playing sport, the very big expat community.
00:03:36
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But interestingly, ah yeah not to talk about clothes straight away, but where it sort of started began, but I've always sort of been fascinated by like the skate culture. And when, you know, in Wales, wasn't really a big thing at the time.
00:03:47
Conor Fowler
Oh
00:03:50
Jack Lewis Whittaker
There's a couple of skate shops, but because all these Americans and Canadians and South Africans and Australians and New Zealanders all started moving into Dubai at this time, there was actually ah an abundance of skate shops.
00:04:01
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Now, I never skated. have
Transition from Trainers to Dress Shoes
00:04:03
Jack Lewis Whittaker
terrible balance and all that sort of thing. that i was fascinated by was it it was like you know those drain pipe jeans the osiris shoes ethnies as you know change the laces out make them red don't tie them up real fucking you know try and be really and again wouldn't touch a skateboard i'd buy a magazine
00:04:10
Conor Fowler
yeah. Oh yeah.
00:04:20
matt
Ha ha ha ha ha!
00:04:20
Conor Fowler
That's so, I feel like that's so, I don't know. It is sort of particular to skateboarding. Don't you think that like you can be so like about it and then like, no, no, like I don't skateboard at all.
00:04:34
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, not go to the Rab.
00:04:36
Conor Fowler
I've never skateboarded. Like I like my bones to be intact.
00:04:41
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, I don't want my SPs dirty. I kind of like them clean.
00:04:43
Conor Fowler
Right,
Fashion Hills and Personal Style Preferences
00:04:44
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, that's the thing.
00:04:44
Conor Fowler
right, right, right.
00:04:45
Conor Fowler
And that's the other, that's the other major thing.
00:04:48
Jack Lewis Whittaker
like But yeah, then obviously I spent five years in the Middle East there, came back to Wales then for a few years and then went away to school again in Gloucester, which was, again, I have a story about that, how I got, well, got into clothes then really heavily because but in that period between Dubai and Gloucester was when it was like Hollister and Abercrombie sort of threw up all over Wales.
00:05:15
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And like everyone was, certain and I i was happily being thrown up on I was wearing Abercrombie and I thought I was this thought i was a really.
00:05:16
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:05:23
Conor Fowler
Happily being thrown up on.
00:05:24
matt
Ha
00:05:25
Conor Fowler
Happily being thrown up on. ah
00:05:26
Jack Lewis Whittaker
absolutely awful and like to the point where i used to like oh yeah wear everything hollister and i think there's another brand as well in the uk called jack wills and then until i went to uh gloucester um i won't mention his name on the podcast but um this is my friend a very good friend of mine sat me down he was like look you look like shit you dress like
00:05:48
matt
ha ha ha ha!
00:05:50
Jack Lewis Whittaker
You dress like shit and you listen to shit music, you can sort out two of them. And there's the two I sorted out from the dressing and the music side of thing where i really started getting into the other stuff and trying to find my way. But yeah, so that was Grosstead there for two years.
00:06:06
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Didn't do very well at school, so i ended up going to Oxford, Brooks, not the good Oxford, the other university down the road. um Spent three years there, again, getting more and more into clothes and then, yeah, finished university.
00:06:20
Jack Lewis Whittaker
but Again, this is bit of a rabbit hole now. And I went home from university, got a law degree, and I was like, mum, dad, I'm going to work in a shoe shop. They were like, what? And I was like, I'm going to work in a shoe shop after university. They were like, don't be an idiot. You just spent three years at university. what are you doing? was like, you watch me. I'm going to do this.
00:06:39
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So then I got on a, a well, couldn't have Greyhound, a megabus from
Tailored Clothing and Comfort
00:06:43
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Cardiff down to London. i went went down to went down to German Street and then I print before and printed off all my CVs.
00:06:44
Conor Fowler
yeah yeah
00:06:51
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Prints off CVs, went down the German Street and I was handing CVs into Trickers, Cheneys, Barkers, all these sort of things. Ended up chatting to a guy in Cheney and then...
00:07:01
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Luckily enough, got offered a job, got to the Megabus home, took all the way home, told my parents, like, see, look, I can do this. And they're like, all right, sort of like, you know, ah we'll see about that.
00:07:13
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And then the the contract came through and I was like, I can't live off this. So then I, ah unfortunately, my my shoe team my sho dream died there and then very quickly.
00:07:18
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:07:22
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And then I...
00:07:23
Conor Fowler
So, well, so why was it why did you want to work in a shoe store?
00:07:23
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh, man.
00:07:26
Conor Fowler
I mean, specifically, why did you want to work in a shoe store?
00:07:29
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I have been obsessed with shoes probably since I was a kid through like soccer cleats or football boots.
00:07:39
Conor Fowler
Sure, sure.
00:07:39
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I'd always be obsessed obsessed with like the way they fit, the way they looked, certain people wearing them. And then obviously everyone goes through that sort of fuckboy era when you get really into your sneakers.
00:07:50
Jack Lewis Whittaker
and trainers and i yeah I was like, you know, very big Air Max one guy.
00:07:52
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:07:56
Jack Lewis Whittaker
um Started getting into that side of thing. I had the awful, I shouldn't call them awful because in case people like them, but the um the I had the Comme des Garcons Converse.
00:08:06
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I thought I was the coolest. Very much like tu Tumblr 2014 atrocities sort look, that sort of vibe.
00:08:07
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:08:07
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:08:12
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But like the elongated, what was it? That Justin Bieber, Fear of God sort of thing where were like,
00:08:17
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:08:17
Jack Lewis Whittaker
a super long t-shirt, then a fucking t-shirt down to your knees.
00:08:20
Conor Fowler
Well, he must not be named. ah Just released a new album. ah Very, very, very that period of time.
00:08:26
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, great. Love it.
00:08:30
Conor Fowler
Like 2014, I think, like is the the essence of that time, arguably. Like ah what a weird time.
00:08:38
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:08:40
Conor Fowler
and And so you were going to work in shoe stores. You were looking at shoe stores. You were looking at dress shoe stores though, right? Like Trickers and that are are are at least –
00:08:46
Jack Lewis Whittaker
yeah
00:08:51
Conor Fowler
I don't know. It's not like you're going to work at a Journeys or like whatever.
00:08:54
Jack Lewis Whittaker
No, good year, welled only, baby. But then before I got on to that, it was like, so anyway, guys, I'd buy trainers and stuff like that.
00:08:56
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:09:01
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And then I'm not a small guy. i' would find that when I'd wear trainers quite a lot, they'd wear away quite quickly. You know, they' either the bubble would go or like, the you know, they'd look a bit, I think, I think the difference between, obviously, some trainers, you can, or sneakers, sorry, for my American listeners, you can beat them.
00:09:08
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:09:17
matt
No, either way.
00:09:18
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Right.
00:09:18
Conor Fowler
our guests are Our guests are very, very smart.
Clothing Durability and Maintenance
00:09:21
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Right.
00:09:21
Conor Fowler
They can figure out what a British person is talking about. i Excuse me, what a Welsh person is talking about.
00:09:25
matt
Yeah.
00:09:27
matt
also I also, like the, I like trainer better than sneaker, in my opinion.
00:09:28
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I'll call him. Go on. Go
00:09:32
matt
Like, it sounds cooler to me.
00:09:34
Conor Fowler
Sneaker is like, but it's like, I don't know.
00:09:37
Jack Lewis Whittaker
ahead. It's Tony then.
00:09:38
Conor Fowler
I feel like, well, no, I mean, I feel like um ah not white people have made sneaker cool. And otherwise it's like not that cool.
00:09:45
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:09:46
Conor Fowler
you know
00:09:47
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:09:48
Conor Fowler
Trainer is like, trainer is like sophisticated, trainer is like urbane.
00:09:48
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:09:52
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, and it's like the gauge, it's like, oh, you know, I'll just say trainer or daps. Daps is a good one as well. People say, oh, I've checked some daps on. That's what my Bampi, my grandfather would say, my Bampi. But yeah, wearing these trainers and stuff that, and they just wear away. And then when I was 19...
00:10:08
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I asked for my birthday and they were reasonable at the time, they're more expensive now for a pair of RM Williams Chelsea boots.
00:10:15
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:10:15
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So I just liked the way they looked and you could wear them. I still got them now, but I started reading into like, I love the idea of just getting something repaired and fixed and like just getting repaired and fixed, repaired and fixed.
00:10:27
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And for me, I think the difference between like sort of like trainers And then like you your standard dress shoes. is I quite like when a dress shoe starts building up those creases, you know, the polish, the years and years of polish.
00:10:38
matt
Yeah.
00:10:41
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Whereas like there's only a couple, think that's the same for every dress shoe. um Whereas I think with trainers only a certain type of trainer looks good beating up.
00:10:51
matt
Right, right. Yeah, like con Converse vans, you know.
00:10:52
Conor Fowler
yeah i agree well plastic plastic doesn't age well you know so it's like if you have a canvas shoe that's going to look better if you have a leather shoe whatever the grade of leather is even like that's going to look better but if it's a like plastic upper like you the thing is belongs in the trash anyway
00:10:54
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Chucks, yeah.
00:10:58
Jack Lewis Whittaker
nope
00:11:14
matt
I'm probably in the minority here, but I do think like classic Jordans, like one through five or so. i don't like the two. So one, three, four, and five look fucking sick when they're beat up.
00:11:28
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:11:28
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I'm not excluding those. Like, those are included in the leather. Like,
00:11:32
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:32
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, it's they're quite a leathery shoe, to honest.
00:11:34
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:11:35
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But...
00:11:35
matt
Totally.
00:11:35
Conor Fowler
but majority leather. um But, yeah, it is funny. I mean, it seems like sneakers, trainers, what have you. Footwear really are the way for a lot of people.
00:11:49
Conor Fowler
Like, denim. Denim is a big one.
00:11:52
matt
yeah
00:11:52
Conor Fowler
but it's like denim and sneakers are a way to work your way into different. I will say one more thing before this this guy from my class came over today and he was saying like, we were sort of high and he was saying, what if the point of clothing is to cycle through it all to kind of gain a better understanding of a style through your own participation in it.
00:12:24
Conor Fowler
And I was like, I don't know what I think about that idea necessarily, but I was glad that he had that thought.
00:12:32
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I think that's... think that sort of leads me to a question where I have the both of you, which I've written down. So, like, obviously, our, you know, fashion changes quite regularly, right? But think people that listen to this and us on the call now do have our sort of... sort of core staples in the wardrobe but what would you say is like your most irrational fashion or like piece of fashion or style advice that you were like what what would you die what hill would you die on so like for me for example like do you know when you're let me reword that sorry what is the most irrational fashion hill you'll die on that's the better way of doing that was talking welsh and i do apologize but ah
00:13:12
matt
Oh, that's...
00:13:13
Conor Fowler
Yeah, Matt, I'm sure has a ton of good answers. Let's see.
00:13:16
matt
no, no. You've got to go first, because yeah
00:13:17
Conor Fowler
okay I'll go first because I do have an answer. I do have an answer and I will die on this hill.
00:13:20
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Let's go for it. Let's shoot it.
00:13:21
Conor Fowler
i will die on this hill.
00:13:22
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Let's go.
00:13:23
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Fucking die on it.
00:13:23
Conor Fowler
ah
00:13:24
Conor Fowler
John Leisure Loafing, hello. Leisurely Loafing, hello. We're going to bring this up again.
00:13:29
Jack Lewis Whittaker
If this is about black loafers now, is this about the black cordomans?
00:13:31
Conor Fowler
It's about black. It's about black at all.
00:13:33
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh, he said this.
00:13:34
Conor Fowler
It's about black at all.
00:13:34
Jack Lewis Whittaker
He said this.
00:13:35
Conor Fowler
And it's like, i don't, I do have cordovan shoes. I don't consider them black.
00:13:40
Jack Lewis Whittaker
You do?
00:13:42
Conor Fowler
Yes, because they're fucking red.
00:13:44
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh.
00:13:44
Conor Fowler
They're red.
00:13:45
Jack Lewis Whittaker
He said this. He said to ask this separately.
00:13:46
Conor Fowler
to their dark They're dark red. Oh my God, he's putting you up to this.
00:13:50
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah,
Fashion Styles and Stereotypes
00:13:51
Jack Lewis Whittaker
so he said to ask about he said to ask about the cordovan loafers separately, but this ah irrational fashion hill, I thought it was bit a cute way into it.
00:13:51
Conor Fowler
Son of a bitch.
00:13:52
matt
Thank you.
00:13:53
Conor Fowler
ah
00:13:57
Conor Fowler
Well, so i have always I have always kind of thought this way. ah It's better to wear color. As someone like, I don't know, I think I'm a little bit fucked anyway, because I'm a redhead.
00:14:14
Conor Fowler
So it's like, I have like, it's sort of yeah, right i right.
00:14:14
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah? What? Are you? i don't see colour, my bad, sorry.
00:14:20
Conor Fowler
I have like, uh, that on my head. And so I figured that I ought to wear other colors and brown is a color in a way that black is not a color.
00:14:33
Jack Lewis Whittaker
That's a strong hill. Oh, it's a strong hill.
00:14:35
matt
That is a strong kill. That is a strong kill.
00:14:36
Conor Fowler
Yeah. And so, I mean, I don't, I don't have any black stuff.
00:14:38
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:14:41
Conor Fowler
Um,
00:14:41
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So you're saying, fuck you, leisurely loafing.
00:14:45
Conor Fowler
I'm not saying, I mean, listen, he keeps he keeps telling me that he's going to buy me a pair of black loafers and then, and then, and then perhaps I would be a black loafer guy.
00:14:46
Jack Lewis Whittaker
ah is that Send it my way as well.
00:14:56
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, I hate...
00:14:57
Conor Fowler
But I just don't see, i just don't see you like a pair of brown loafers that has no wear on them and a pair of brown loafers that are super beat up beats the black loafers, I think.
00:15:11
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, I hate black bloopers too, so if you can send me a pair.
00:15:11
Conor Fowler
I don't know.
00:15:16
Jack Lewis Whittaker
hate them, they're the worst.
00:15:16
Conor Fowler
right right and money bags can put his money where his mouth is
00:15:21
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, awesome. Yeah, I'll send me a After you, Matt.
00:15:27
Conor Fowler
should be easy to remember because i'm a nine so we can just kind of go up the go up the scale you know you have matt you must have a thousand things because matt has peculiar peculiarities
00:15:27
Jack Lewis Whittaker
after
00:15:32
matt
Yeah, there you go. There you go. Yeah.
00:15:34
Jack Lewis Whittaker
after you matt
00:15:34
matt
I've...
00:15:37
matt
Uh...
00:15:46
Conor Fowler
that almost always makes sense. So it's like, I know that you got it. It's...
00:15:53
matt
Um...
00:15:53
Conor Fowler
just
00:15:55
matt
And, yeah, this is this is hard on the spot. Um...
00:16:02
Conor Fowler
Because you have opinions about loafers in terms of format.
00:16:04
matt
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but like, these, those are not, those are not necessarily hills that I would die on. They're just like...
00:16:12
Conor Fowler
You hate a Kilty Loafer, I think, Probably more than anyone hates a shoe.
00:16:18
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Whoa, whoa. Tell me about this. I'll stick into this.
00:16:23
matt
Okay, yeah, I really do, this is not my my final answer, but this is, you know, probably in the top five. ah I think Kilty Loafers...
00:16:34
matt
are, and especially a kilty with a tassel, are the ugliest loafers ever created. And I don't think they look good on anyone. Sorry, John. Sorry, Connor.
00:16:44
matt
i know I know both of you have an affinity for for that.
00:16:47
Conor Fowler
But they're brown.
00:16:49
matt
I mean, i don't even, i don't give a shit what the color is. Like, I just think they're there're an abomination. Because it's like, it's kind of like a...
00:16:57
Jack Lewis Whittaker
That's the thumbnail.
00:17:00
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Abomination.
00:17:00
Conor Fowler
right.
00:17:01
matt
Like, yeah, Abomination.
00:17:01
Conor Fowler
right
00:17:03
matt
um They just, they don't have a place, in my opinion. Like, they they're there're any, okay, so in America in particular, which is the only country I've ever lived in, if you're wearing anything that's not a pair of trainers or, you know, like something sneakers, you know, if you're if you're just in the world, out in the world and you're not wearing like sneakers or like, you know, if if you, you know, you wear work boots because that's a part of your day, like doing manual labor or whatever, like any anything that's not that, that's like vaguely quote unquote address you,
00:17:19
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Sneakers.
00:17:41
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:17:41
matt
it's formal for 99.9% of people. So like, but they don't look good with, in my opinion, they're, they're too casual to really be worn like with a pair of trousers and a sport jacket, but they're all, they're not casual enough to like, to really look good with like a pair of jeans and a, you know, a t-shirt or something like that.
00:18:06
Conor Fowler
See what I mean? It's well-reasoned.
00:18:08
matt
They find, yeah, they they they they're in this, like, no man's land, in my opinion, of, like...
00:18:09
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh. Yeah.
00:18:14
Conor Fowler
I think, though, that they are a shout-out to Scottish culture.
00:18:19
matt
I mean, they definitely are, but but we we're but we're not in fucking Scotland, and we're not in the, you know, the 1800s or whenever the kilt-y was designed.
00:18:19
Conor Fowler
And so that's probably good, right? Yeah.
00:18:28
matt
Like, you know, if you're playing bagpipes with a kilt on, sure, go for it, wear them.
00:18:29
Conor Fowler
That's true. That's true.
00:18:34
Conor Fowler
Well, could you wear them with a kilt is the question, or is that a bridge too far?
00:18:34
matt
i don't... I haven't...
00:18:38
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Nah, fuck no, you can't.
00:18:39
matt
Yeah, I was going to say, like, what's the fucking...
00:18:39
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah,
00:18:44
matt
What's the shoe with, like... Shit, I can't remember what it's called. But the the traditional, like, Scottish shoe that is worn...
00:18:50
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I know the one you mean. have no idea what they're called, though.
00:18:51
matt
Yeah, I would have known this a decade ago, but I haven't thought about it in probably ten years. Um...
00:18:57
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, you have.
00:18:58
matt
ah
00:18:59
Conor Fowler
They're probably hard they're fire hard to come by these days.
00:18:59
Jack Lewis Whittaker
is that Yeah, you have. These kill teas have been on your mind.
00:19:04
matt
Oh, Kilties had definitely been on my mind, but the the other traditional shoe is what I mean. Like, i can't remember the I can't remember what it's called, but you know, like, yeah.
00:19:08
Jack Lewis Whittaker
um
00:19:12
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But what about derbies of Kilties? You know how like, I think JM Weston has a golf shoe, Amelie on door of Dunmer now, like that's sort of like more accept more acceptable or is it the fact that it's the loafer and the Kiltie together that you don't like?
00:19:20
matt
That's, so that's a,
00:19:26
matt
It's the loper and the kilty together. i like There's ah a US brand Justin boots. you know I grew up in rural Georgia and like there's a lot of people that ride horses and things and like ranches and shit.
00:19:32
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:19:37
matt
and like you know Justin does a design and has forever with a little kilty at the bottom. and like i don't I don't mind shit like that or like a derby, but it's the loper kilty that gets me.
00:19:52
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Well, that hill.
00:19:53
matt
Yeah.
00:19:53
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So that's that's top five. I dread to think what the other five are.
00:19:55
matt
That's top five.
00:19:56
Jack Lewis Whittaker
The other four are Jesus.
00:19:58
matt
ah the The first one that came to my head when you asked is that people treat their clothes too precious.
00:20:06
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, I respect that.
00:20:07
matt
And like, I'm talking mo like even tailored clothing. Like if it's been a while since I've worn, you know, a sport coat or anything, but like I wear those the exact same as I wear in like a chore jacket.
00:20:19
matt
Like it's, and if it can't handle being a part of my wardrobe, then I don't need it. So, you know, I think people that baby their clothes are, i don't know, fucked in the head in a weird way.
00:20:32
matt
like i know it's Or poor.
00:20:33
Conor Fowler
Or poor, or poor.
00:20:35
matt
Yeah, I mean, i'm not it's not a broad spectrum.
00:20:36
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh, all right, Matt.
00:20:39
Conor Fowler
no I mean, we're saying in my I'm saying in my case, right? Like I buried my shit because I can't afford to buy another one.
00:20:42
matt
Right, right.
00:20:42
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Joking.
00:20:45
Conor Fowler
You know what I mean? If I get a hole in this thing, it's fucked. John was showing me what the reweaving cost is. It's like for a pinhole, it's like a thousand dollars,
Clothing as Self-Expression
00:20:57
matt
See, i
00:20:58
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh, Jesus. That's so expensive.
00:20:58
Conor Fowler
which why would you even do that?
00:21:02
matt
Yeah, and honestly, honestly, i think that that looks worse than just, like, darning it yourself or getting someone to darn it.
00:21:02
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it is extremely expensive.
00:21:09
Conor Fowler
I agree it probably does because I think once it's got a hole in it, it's like you can't do it again. i mean, you have to darn it. You have to make it like an obvious, you have to acknowledge its presence, I think, in the repair.
00:21:15
matt
Yeah.
00:21:19
matt
I don't know. I think... I probably told this story before on air, but I worked for like an old, a super old school menswear store years ago. And like, I was just running around, you know, grabbing shit.
00:21:33
matt
And I caught like one of my patch pockets on this, on the corner of a counter and it like busted some stitches. And I was like, okay. ah We had a table shop in the back. I could have taken it back there immediately and gotten it, you know, stitched back up or whatever. But I just took like five safety pins and pinned them on the inside of my jacket.
00:21:51
matt
And all the stodgy old dudes that I worked with looked on horrified. And I was just like, dude, i'm I'm busy. Like, I don't have time to do this shit. I don't want to, like, walk around with a shirt tie and no jacket on. So, fuck it. It works. It works. It's going you know, it's going to get more wear at some point or another anyway. And I'll get it fixed at some point or another.
00:22:12
Jack Lewis Whittaker
isn't that like But i' say isn't that like, this is what I find particularly fascinating about clothes is seeing the wrong, seeing clothes not in the environment that they're purposed for, if that makes sense.
00:22:12
Conor Fowler
There's no denying it.
00:22:26
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I love seeing that.
00:22:28
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Like you'll see like like a guy, could be, again, can not to it could be ah a barber with a pair of cordovan loafers on or like a really... tattered up guy in a suit. I love that sort of juxtaposition to you and like the intended use of clothing to what the actual person is using them for. That that to me is like the best.
00:22:28
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:22:45
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Seeing people do that for me is like the best way to dress because they are sort of, they just know what they're doing. And like for me, that's like another telltale sign. Someone likes clothes, doesn't just buy for the brand.
00:22:55
Jack Lewis Whittaker
They just sort of like really respect the clothing. The fact they're thinking, you know what, I'm going to wear what the fuck I want, when I want it, how I want it, and then just wear it for its intended purpose.
00:23:03
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:23:05
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I think that's, and coming back onto your, sort of what you're saying about the patch pockets with your with the pins and stuff like That's why I think when it comes to like the, you know, all these sort of types of clothing styles we like, whether it's like Heritage, you know, L.L. Bean, Jay Precious, your Brooks Brothers. I think it's quite cool seeing that sort of like people, you know, well, the...
00:23:28
Jack Lewis Whittaker
you know, where these, all these sort of clothing brands started, you know on campuses, stuff like that. And then getting to the eighty s ninety early 2000s, when like, obviously the hardcore scene was popping off, the hip hop scene was popping off and people started wearing that sort of like clothing. Is that sort of resurgence again?
00:23:43
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I think that's what it's like for me, I really like that side of the, you know, this when it comes to wearing clothes and, you know, i probably never be able, I work in finance, so I can never sort of do that, you know, by quite like seeing that and how people take that on.
00:23:57
matt
Right. Well, what, uh, this is a question that we had for a little later on, but like what, you know, what's the kind of like, ah office stereotype uniform, you know, for, for you as a financial person.
00:24:14
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I'll let you guys guess, then I'll tell you what I wear.
00:24:18
matt
Cotter.
00:24:19
Conor Fowler
Well, I guess we have to mention the quarter zip, the infamous quarter zip.
00:24:24
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:24:25
Conor Fowler
ah I would say probably like some performance khakis, slim.
00:24:33
matt
Oh.
00:24:34
Conor Fowler
ah law
00:24:34
matt
ah
00:24:35
Conor Fowler
And then I would say, i mean, and this is like, I'm throwing this, but like the sneaker dress shoe hybrid shoe.
00:24:44
matt
See, I was just thinking that even even as lax as everything's gotten, i feel like people in the UK would not go the sneaker dress shoe route, but I could be totally wrong.
00:24:53
Conor Fowler
No, I think you're right. I think they would wear something cheap though, or maybe expensive.
00:24:57
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:58
Conor Fowler
I don't know.
00:24:58
Jack Lewis Whittaker
You're missing one thing, the key thing.
00:24:59
Conor Fowler
It's hard to say because they're not, they're not wearing a shirt.
00:25:01
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Well, they are, maybe, but you're missing the key thing.
00:25:03
Conor Fowler
Uh, uh,
00:25:06
Jack Lewis Whittaker
It's a key aspect of clothing. Is it also in New York?
00:25:09
matt
Oh.
00:25:12
Conor Fowler
they have a lime scooter.
00:25:14
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Well, that's a good accessory. The gilet. The gilet, the vest, the gilet, the Patagonia zipper.
00:25:18
matt
The what?
00:25:18
Conor Fowler
The what?
00:25:21
Conor Fowler
Oh, yeah.
00:25:22
matt
Oh.
00:25:22
Conor Fowler
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so when I, yeah.
00:25:23
matt
Gotcha.
00:25:27
matt
I've also got to say, i never knew how that word was pronounced until this very moment.
00:25:30
Jack Lewis Whittaker
gilet sounds better
00:25:31
matt
yeah Yeah, yeah. I've said gillet in any, since I've known the word. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:36
Conor Fowler
And Matt has mad has fucking hazed me for mispronouncing French shit. Like I said, Blouson, for example.
00:25:44
matt
Oh, yeah, not Blue Song.
00:25:46
Conor Fowler
Broussau.
00:25:47
Jack Lewis Whittaker
la vache
00:25:47
Conor Fowler
Broussau. I don't live near a French person anymore, though.
00:25:48
Jack Lewis Whittaker
all of ash
00:25:50
Conor Fowler
So it's like i um my neighbors, my terrible neighbors were French. and i don't live next to them anymore and so that's a happy that's a happy well they would just always they were always having work done in their house at like seven o'clock in the morning on saturday why would you do that you're trying to make enemies right exactly why would you do this to me but ah digress
00:25:58
matt
Ha ha ha ha!
00:25:59
Jack Lewis Whittaker
That's why.
00:26:11
Jack Lewis Whittaker
to annoy that to annoy your neighbours.
00:26:16
Jack Lewis Whittaker
yeah.
00:26:19
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But so what I wear is... Well, someone, one one of my colleagues ended up today quite well because I wore a suit, a nice suit actually. It was an 80s bird's eye Ralph Lauren, quite you know, wide shoulders, double pleated, classic Ralph, really nice.
00:26:38
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Normal later, wrappers I find it really hard fitting into Ralph, but we'll come on to that, especially the Andrew Tripp Pacino's. But anyway, wore that today.
00:26:45
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:26:45
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Lovely. And then then he was like, it's either that or a rugby shirt. Like, what what is going on? So I think
Confidence Through Tailored Clothing
00:26:52
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I kind of, I have like a uniform, i would say, which is all, it's quite a big uniform, but it's all similar sort of canon, would say. So like, for me, it's normally a dress shoe, but like a dress derby. So it could be a pair of para boots, or it could be a pair of, you know,
00:27:11
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, a pair of i what I'd get buried in, my Alden 990s, my, you know, big but not black, burgundy brown, cordovan, bluchers.
00:27:19
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:27:20
Jack Lewis Whittaker
How would you guys say that, by the way? Is it blucher or blucher? That's an American thing I don't get.
00:27:25
matt
I've always said...
00:27:25
Conor Fowler
I think it's a you Yeah, I think there's a U.
00:27:27
matt
I've said Blucher.
00:27:29
Jack Lewis Whittaker
a
00:27:29
matt
Yeah.
00:27:30
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I'll say Blucher. Them. So I'd wear them and then high-raced trousers, pants, chinos, slacks, whatever suits everyone here. ah Garby high-rise. you know i you know i want it hugging my waist as much as possible to hide the mess that I have beneath my clothing.
00:27:49
Jack Lewis Whittaker
um
00:27:49
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:27:50
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And then a then then this is where I mix it up. So it's either going to be, like I said, Oxford shirt, button down. i was thinking the last time I wore a non-button down shirt, can't, that's just like a work shirt, but I think actually with like a dress shirt, I don't remember the last time i actually didn't wear button down.
00:28:07
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And then, or like a rugby shirt, or if I'm feeling really fancy, not, well, fancy is a terrible word for it. If I'm feeling really sort of different, I'd wear like just a t-shirt and then a chalker over the top.
00:28:18
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And then depending on the year, what I'm trucking over, it could be anything from, you know, I've worn a Carhartt gilet in the office because, you know, i work behind a desk and I think that's the perfect place for a Carhartt gilet.
00:28:30
matt
Yeah.
00:28:30
Conor Fowler
Right. oh
00:28:31
Jack Lewis Whittaker
um I've worn denim chalk coats. I've worn sport coats. i but Yeah, I try and mix it up. Whatever I feel comfortable in walking in in the morning or, you know,
00:28:43
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, everything really. But I find, I don't know, I really have, i i love clothes. I wear everything I can. And I sort of have a problem when I like something, I buy so much of the same thing. And like and my my partner, bless her,
00:29:01
Jack Lewis Whittaker
i like For example, olive green chinos with high rise, are it's like crack to me. If I can find olive, because I think with beige chinos or tan or whatever, they show stains quite easy.
00:29:06
matt
Oh yeah.
00:29:15
matt
Right.
00:29:15
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Where they fake the olive chino or the navy chino or or you know even like a dark tan chino, you can get them a bit dirty.
00:29:22
Conor Fowler
Taupe. People shit on the blue, like the Navy chino.
00:29:27
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh, yeah.
00:29:28
Conor Fowler
I don't really understand because it's like the problem with wearing chinos is you can't wipe your hands on them.
00:29:35
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:29:36
matt
That's why you carry a bandana in your pocket.
00:29:36
Conor Fowler
So like you, the bandana is incongruous with the chino.
00:29:38
matt
Pull it out. You know.
00:29:39
Jack Lewis Whittaker
ah
00:29:42
matt
How is it incongruous?
Fondness for Button-Down Shirts
00:29:43
matt
You just, you fold it up and put it in your back pocket.
00:29:46
Conor Fowler
I guess that would be kind of cool.
00:29:47
Jack Lewis Whittaker
system
00:29:48
Conor Fowler
The,
00:29:50
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Would it be cool?
00:29:51
Conor Fowler
Well, the point is, if you're wearing Navy chinos, you can put whatever shit you want on them. You can put ketchup on them, and they it doesn't show. So word to the wise.
00:30:01
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Have you guys…
00:30:01
matt
Uh...
00:30:02
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Sorry, go on. Sorry, Matt, after you.
00:30:03
matt
Oh, I was going to say, it's interesting to me that you're button down collar aficionado.
00:30:09
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh, always.
00:30:10
matt
Yeah.
00:30:10
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Unless I'm wearing a toweling shirt, we can't really get a button-down version of that. But, um oh, yeah. like So let's talk about button-downs quickly. For me, top three button-downs, again, it's hard.
00:30:22
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And we'll come on to eBay because I have another, I have a weird kink. Not kink, kink's a terrible word for it. But I have a thing for eBay, which we'll come on to.
00:30:28
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:30:30
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But for me, I think a lot of people think, you know, ah obviously I talk about Jake's,
00:30:30
Conor Fowler
right
00:30:35
Jack Lewis Whittaker
give him a shout out Jake's London, he makes an amazing button shirt if you want buy brand new. But for the longest time, I thought Brooks Brothers, you know, traditional breezy fits, you know, made in US button down with the best ones. And then L.L. Bean, made in USA button down college, you have to half sides up from the Brooks Brothers.
00:30:55
matt
Right, right.
00:30:56
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh my God, the best fit.
00:30:58
Jack Lewis Whittaker
and And I have like been completely, I was ah i was transfixed at, you know, Brooks Brothers. It's the coolest, it's the best. But for me personally, the LL Bean Made in the US button down, recommend it, especially for those guys who are a little bit, you know, I'm a bit on the on the heavier side because the shoulders a bit wider as well.
00:30:58
matt
Yeah.
00:31:10
matt
Right.
00:31:16
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And it's just, it's awesome.
00:31:19
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I have a few of those. They're pretty hard to come by. Like I have some single needle ones and
00:31:27
matt
Yeah, I don't know where the... I don't know if the, like... ah Fuck, I just lost my train of thought for a half second. Like, the L.O.
00:31:38
matt
Bean ones that you find mostly are, like, you know, late 80s to 90s USA-made ones. I have no idea, we like, what factory made those, but ah the Brooks Brothers factory that they had in North Carolina, I don't know how long it was...
00:31:44
Conor Fowler
yeah.
00:31:54
matt
It was under the you know under the parent company, but like it closed a few years ago. That was the easily the best button-down shirt made in the States.
00:32:05
matt
Across the board.
00:32:05
Conor Fowler
think i'm I think I'm wearing that right now.
00:32:06
matt
Not just like button-down collar. but Yeah, but like dress in any dress shirt that that came out of Garland was the name of it. Phenomenal. just it's It's what a dress shirt or ah an Oxford collar button-down should be.
00:32:22
Conor Fowler
Well, I was just going to say...
00:32:22
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But what do people, after you Connor?
00:32:25
Conor Fowler
um
00:32:29
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I was going to say i got like some boysenberry preserves on the cuff of this. And luckily, like it's on the inner cuff.
00:32:39
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Sick.
00:32:39
Conor Fowler
Or I would just be like, I can't wear this.
Oversized Clothing and Comfort
00:32:44
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, you can.
00:32:44
Conor Fowler
And this is the line that Matt and I are on all the time, but it's like, I don't want people to think I'm a slob more than they already do. And if they can see like mood stains on my shit, then that's like a sure sign that I'm a slob.
00:32:52
Jack Lewis Whittaker
You don't have to
00:32:59
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I think it's telling him it's not food sting.
00:32:59
Conor Fowler
It's
00:33:01
Jack Lewis Whittaker
You don't have to admit to the food sting.
00:33:02
Conor Fowler
blood.
00:33:03
Jack Lewis Whittaker
It's like, oh, it's you're fighting or you're writing your you know memoir in red ink and you're up late and then you saved up saved a life and then
00:33:03
Conor Fowler
What are you talking about?
00:33:03
matt
Right, right.
00:33:04
Conor Fowler
It's blood. hey
00:33:10
matt
Yeah.
00:33:12
Conor Fowler
I was writing my memoir in blood and I got a little on my cuff.
00:33:14
Jack Lewis Whittaker
and you just you know
00:33:14
matt
yeah
00:33:16
Conor Fowler
It's crazy. I mean, I don't know how this, how this keeps happening, but.
00:33:20
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Just saving lives. The Oxford shirt stays on.
00:33:23
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Doesn't matter.
00:33:23
Conor Fowler
Oh, and the thing I was going to say is, is your, ah is your love for the button down Oxford?
00:33:32
Conor Fowler
Is it kind of like the out of context clothing? Because you're in the UK and it's the American shirt. So like.
00:33:42
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I love button-downs. for three reasons. And i'll come maybe one of them is yours. Maybe a fourth reason when I finish the spiel. ah The first reason is my dad ah gave me a couple of...
00:33:57
Jack Lewis Whittaker
um I say he gave me. I stole a couple of my dad's button downs when I was in my teens. They were the Ralph Lauren Blake shirt, which I think is a beautiful, like a beautiful shirt, I think, the sort of way the way it fits.
00:34:03
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:34:06
Conor Fowler
here yeah
00:34:11
Jack Lewis Whittaker
The second reason is... I love the way, and again, i like to try maybe with more of a point collar, but I love the way a tie sits with a button down.
00:34:24
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So I think we know, I love the collar roll. I love the fact that and when you don't have a button down, again, this might be my irrational fashion hill to die on. But I i hate, don't hate a strong word as well. But you know when you have like ah a non-button down and then you see like the gap between where your shirt buttons up and then the tie.
00:34:45
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Fuck, that's so annoying.
00:34:45
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:34:46
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So I really, so I think the button down keeps that all in place.
00:34:47
matt
Right.
00:34:51
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And I think the third reason why i love the button down as well I just think it goes well with everything, even like, so like, and the versatility of it.
00:35:03
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So like, it looks, again, this is a bit of like, I don't know, ALD sort of lookbook, Drake's lookbook vibe that I've tried to do and I don't pull it off, but you wear like a roll neck jumper, you pop the collar, you know, feel really sort cool.
00:35:16
matt
right
00:35:17
Conor Fowler
You know, I don't think that it's like, I feel like people think that it's like advanced styling and it's like, it's really just like a good style, right?
00:35:24
Jack Lewis Whittaker
No, I...
00:35:29
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, I completely agree until i saw so ah saw um i so I saw myself in the background of a photo of someone took at work.
00:35:36
Conor Fowler
Oh, see that's trouble. That's trouble.
00:35:37
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And I was just like, I honestly...
00:35:38
Conor Fowler
That's trouble. when You can't know if you aren't prepared for the photo, it doesn't count.
00:35:40
Jack Lewis Whittaker
it i was like I was like, wow, Mr. Potato has really let himself go. Because I had like a shaved head as...
00:35:46
Conor Fowler
Right. Yeah, for sure.
00:35:48
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, and like a shaved head as well. It's like, I'm not sure if you guys get this, but i think the reason why i love clothes so much is it gives you that sort of confidence boost. But it's like, there's nothing worse when you're like, ever a bad photo or you catch yourself in the mirror before you get in the shower or something. It's like, oh, Christ. Then you put on your but put on the stuff you love. But i saw that photo of me trying to pop that collar and I was like, fuck.
00:36:11
matt
Yeah, we've all been there.
00:36:12
Jack Lewis Whittaker
don me Done me dirty.
00:36:13
matt
We've all been there.
00:36:14
Conor Fowler
for sure um
00:36:15
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Untag. Get rid.
00:36:16
Conor Fowler
But I don't know, one of the reasons that we wanted to have you on the show is because like me, you are not a like model shaped person.
00:36:20
Jack Lewis Whittaker
yes
00:36:24
Jack Lewis Whittaker
no
00:36:25
Conor Fowler
um
00:36:25
Jack Lewis Whittaker
No.
00:36:26
Conor Fowler
And like one of the one of the strengths of this style of dressing is that it doesn't matter what your body type is.
00:36:37
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Correct.
00:36:38
Conor Fowler
Like you can just wear the stuff and like if you size it correctly, it's utilitarian, right?
00:36:38
matt
Totally.
00:36:41
matt
Well, I mean, that's the
00:36:45
matt
the... Isn't that kind of the whole point of like tailored clothing, you know, like is is working to the advantage of whatever the wearer has, whether they're, you know, um your typical model is going to be like a 38 chest, 32 waist or something around there, but like the clothes are meant to
Personal Fashion Journey and Trends
00:37:04
matt
ah accentuate your best features and hide your worst features, no matter what your shape is.
00:37:10
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, and I think and think what I like about being a bigger chap is the fact that, like and it goes for all big boys out there listening in, I think, obviously, summer months, at summer's tough.
00:37:10
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:37:21
Jack Lewis Whittaker
It's coming.
00:37:21
Conor Fowler
yeah right right right
00:37:22
Jack Lewis Whittaker
It's going to be... chafing, it's going to be sweaty, it's going to be rough. But as soon as that autumn and winter comes, big boys are out to play. Those six-packs are going away, jumpers are coming out, it's a fair playing field again.
00:37:36
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Summer will just ride the wave, will chuck on a pair of baggies, Patagonias, chuck on a nice rugby shirt or a t-shirt. But that's what I like about being a bigger genital slactor. I think... if you can, I think anyone can dress well-ish, being of a slender build or the stereotypical model build.
00:37:54
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But I think, you know, when someone's truly into clothes, when they are a bit of a larger frame, broader, a bit more stout, that's when you actually like, yeah, they know what they're doing. They know what they're talking about. They know what they like. And I think that's a more important thing as well, than knowing what you like and then just being comfortable in that as well.
00:38:06
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:38:10
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And I think that's what I really sort of like. but I think an interesting thing I have a question for you guys being over there. In America, do you find that like these brands, and I mentioned a couple of them, sort J-Press, maybe a couple, i don't know if it was like O'Connell's maybe, or like, you know, Buck Mason, all all these new, or not new brands, but new and heritage brands.
00:38:27
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:38:33
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Do you think the silhouettes, I should talk about J-Press for a second, because ah obviously I saw the beef online with, you know, the latest lookbook or whatever and stuff like that.
00:38:42
matt
Oh, Jesus Christ.
00:38:43
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But ah I'll come on to the jackets. So I bought a J-Press jacket recently and I love it. It's really nice. But one thing I had noticed, i got vintage J-Press as well, was do you think that the jackets they are making now across the brands, and I use them an example, I don't want to get hated on, do you feel like they aren't making the jackets...
00:39:03
Jack Lewis Whittaker
for everyone like they once did. yeah I'm not sure I'm saying that right, but like, you know, if you look if you try on like a vintage Brooks or a vintage J Press jacket, the shoulders are naturally quite broad. The buttoning is quite low as well. Because like for me, I like it on a jacket when the middle button hits your belt.
00:39:20
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I'm not sure that might get quite niche here, but but on the later jackets, I'm finding that unless you get long, the buttoning is quite high up.
00:39:20
matt
Right.
00:39:22
Conor Fowler
that's not right.
00:39:29
Jack Lewis Whittaker
The shoulders are quite tight. i don't know. i feel like the the brands now aren't, I think they've lost touch of how coat should fit and how a tailing fit, unless you pay megabucks for you which again, I can't afford and not many people can.
00:39:41
matt
Right.
00:39:41
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I wanted to get your take on like how far away are these brands coming from like the everyday consumer?
00:39:41
matt
right
00:39:49
matt
Uh, okay. So I ha I have a pretty good take on this having worked with like a traditional menswear store for a few years and trying to do my part to make it i'm a little bit more modern because our, you know, our median customer age was probably like 60.
00:40:05
matt
sixty
00:40:06
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:40:08
matt
ah All of these companies, Brooks Brothers, J Press, all the, you know, the old school, like O'Connell's is on ah just a totally different wavelength.
00:40:18
matt
And I don't count them with this because they've always just done their own thing.
00:40:18
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:40:22
matt
And it hasn't really changed over the years.
00:40:24
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:40:25
matt
I think shout out to Buffalo.
00:40:25
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Shout out to Buffalo.
00:40:27
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:40:28
matt
Yeah. Shout out to my, my boy Glenn at juniors too. Cause O'Connell's is where I don't know.
00:40:31
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Go Bills.
00:40:34
matt
I wouldn't go that far. I'm just kidding. Um, uh, So i think a lot of the J presses, the Brooks Brothers, the the Hickey Freemans of the world, um you know, and also some like classic brands like Kanali and and others.
00:40:55
matt
They lived in the fantasy world that was the 80s and 90s and the boom of tailored clothing.
00:41:02
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Thank you.
00:41:04
matt
For so long. Like the you know. The huge shit. ah Some of them in the 80s were chasing that like. Giorgio Armani thing. they They kind of lost the plot. I guess is what I'm saying.
00:41:15
matt
And so they didn't change for so long. That their customer base. Was getting older. Buying less. Dying off. Etc. And they really didn't have anything to present.
00:41:27
matt
To a younger generation. That doesn't want to dress like their dad.
00:41:31
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Thank you.
00:41:31
matt
But likes clothes. You know. And the the past, I don't know, 15 or so years for these companies have been playing catch up and like trying to quote unquote innovate their offerings, but like kind of excluding their core customer and not being that cool for a lot of younger people that are into shit like Ring Jacket or LBM 1911. And so like,
00:42:02
matt
Now we have this kind of weird amalgamation of like, yeah, there's still some classic fit shit, but we're we're going all in because like slimmer stuff is mainstream now.
00:42:13
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Do you feel like, I'm not sure if you guys, you hope you may have caught this, but I think in 2016, this is niche now, Complex did a documentary on like the popularity of Polo Ralph Lauren.
00:42:23
matt
Right.
00:42:24
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And they said the reason why Polo Ralph Lauren did so well of like the black community was obviously partly because Ralph, where he wasn't, making, you know, Ralph Lischwitz, selling ties, that sort of thing. But they never, Ralph never targeted the clothes to be for those communities targeted to be a certain type of person. Whereas Tommy Hilfiger, why that wasn't as, they draw a comparison to Tommy Hilfiger where the reason why that wasn't as popular as Ralph Lauren was driven by the fact that they, he did try to target those subcultures, those people who he wants to wear the clothes. Do you feel like,
00:42:55
Jack Lewis Whittaker
that's what's sort of happening here in a way. Because like, I feel like you look at some certain lookbooks and not lookbooks over the way the suit, especially not so much how it looks, how it fits, how it fits on.
00:43:06
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Like, for example, you don't you very rarely see a rise from one of these shops now above 11 and a half inches for 38 waves, which is not a high rise, not a medium rise for me, that's a low rise.
00:43:13
matt
Right.
00:43:16
matt
Yeah, totally, totally.
00:43:17
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So I kind of feel like they're trying to hit a sweet spot that doesn't exist.
Vintage Clothing and Online Shopping
00:43:22
matt
Yes.
00:43:23
Jack Lewis Whittaker
In my mind,
00:43:24
matt
I think that's ah that's a pretty good call. um
00:43:27
Conor Fowler
The one-size-fits-all approach, basically.
00:43:30
matt
Yeah, and also, it like we've talked about it on here before, but like you have to think that in you know when when, for example, the J.Crew Ludlow suit came out in, what, 2008?
00:43:41
matt
That was kind like... you know that was that was kind of like
00:43:42
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Tres en 8.
00:43:43
Conor Fowler
Yeah, probably.
00:43:44
matt
that was kind of like for tailored clothing, that was kind of revolutionary and like slim fit stuff was, was like a little bit more niche. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't the broader spectrum of like mainstream clothing and now it still is.
00:44:02
matt
So like you go into a Macy's or any department store and 99% of the stuff in the store is going to be like slim skinny And everyone that liked that in 2008 to 2000, you know, 14, 15 or whatever have moved on because we all realized like, oh, that shit fit terribly.
00:44:16
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Thank
00:44:22
matt
And like, it was uncomfortable. But, you know, I, in my hometown, you still see people wearing the tightest jeans possible because that's what's available. And so I think that's part of the the equation as well. Like that is the mainstream, even if it's like,
00:44:39
matt
Even if it's not, you know, totally their customer, that's kind of what they have to compete against.
00:44:45
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, I still find it quite hard going home and wearing clothes that I wear in London at home.
00:44:51
matt
Right.
00:44:51
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Especially like if I turn, but you know, shout out to Tony, who's been on the podcast, but i got a podcast from, i got not podcast, but i a beret from Tony, I bought beret from him.
00:45:01
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah.
00:45:01
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I remember once just chucking that on back in my small village in Wales and my dad was like, what the fuck are you wearing?
00:45:06
matt
Ha ha ha ha ha!
00:45:06
Jack Lewis Whittaker
so we're where we're not We're not on the we're not in the Louvre now. But like not even that, it's like, you know, mean, going home and then putting on a sport coat. so I quite like putting on a sport coat shirt and a tie, even when I'm not going anywhere, i just popping out or going for a couple of drinks. You don't have to drive. That's what I quite like about the sort of like separates. I know Connor, you do this a lot as well, but that sort of separates look with a tie it looks like...
00:45:31
Jack Lewis Whittaker
You know, you can just go anywhere with it. That's what I quite like about it. But if I wear that at home, it's like, where are you going?
00:45:38
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Like, come on.
00:45:38
Conor Fowler
Who the fuck is this guy?
00:45:39
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like I was wearing a tie at this funeral in Pittsburgh this weekend. And like, I wasn't the only person in a tie, but I was one of two people with a tie.
00:45:49
Conor Fowler
And the other guy had on a floral shirt and a green tie. And that was not that was not my outfit.
00:45:53
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:45:57
Jack Lewis Whittaker
It's like, you know when you see like... ah zach or amy leon dad and then like i've got the other guys as the comedian they say oh i'm the only guy who's wearing vintage brooks brothers and this tj maxx i'm like i'm the only guy wearing this probably in like a 60 mile 70 mile radius when i go home like let alone like but again it's all part and fun of it i think you know i think that's what i find interesting about i think i do love the american
00:46:08
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:46:09
matt
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:46:14
matt
Right, right, yeah.
00:46:26
Jack Lewis Whittaker
style though. And I do think there is a real romance to it, especially that's when I come back on to eBay, like I buy so much stuff from eBay each month. And I think it's sort of three categories on eBay. I've never used vintage and I've shared vintage quite good.
00:46:40
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But i'm I'm loyal to I'm loyal loyal to loyalty eBay. um But it's three categories. And then I think one you find something that you'd put something niche on eBay, you type in like 17.5 USA shirt or something.
00:46:54
Jack Lewis Whittaker
brooks brothers shirt or something And then first step will be like a candy stripe.
00:46:56
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:46:59
Jack Lewis Whittaker
You're like, oh my God, something actually came back, which is always the first
Braces vs. Belts
00:47:04
Jack Lewis Whittaker
thing. Obviously, if something doesn't come back, you lessen the search each time to the point where this says Brooks Brothers 17, hope for the fucking best.
00:47:10
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:47:12
matt
Right, right.
00:47:12
Jack Lewis Whittaker
the The second thing is, you know, all right, it goes one or two ways then. You either have someone who hasn't got a clue what they're selling, and they chuck it on there for like 30, 40 quid, and you're like, yes, fucking unreal, buy straight away.
00:47:28
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Or you have someone else who kind of knows what they're doing, but they put the old best offer on it. Now, if you lowball, and again, I'm sorry to whoever sells on eBay.
00:47:34
matt
Mm-hmm.
00:47:35
Conor Fowler
right
00:47:39
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I've tried selling eBay, and apologies.
00:47:41
matt
I don't I've been selling on eBay for over 20 years at this point.
00:47:44
Jack Lewis Whittaker
once you If you lowball the shit out of it and then they accept it is just pure ecstasy. You've got like this absolute bargain.
00:47:49
matt
Mm-hmm.
00:47:52
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Honestly, that's like my like fix. And that's the thing that I, that's what I love about buying stuff from you. but i do think there's that sweet spot of like Americana when it comes to like, you know oh and i see connor you wear them a lot i think matt you have some as well those old sport coats from niche brands as well i've got one from millers of philadelphia which i can't even google and like you know the three-year-old tool the low button stands the shirts but the only thing i'm struggling to wear and i may need to change my size is the polo andrew pant i just don't think they i just don't think they so i think i just i don't suit pleats i think i'm more of a flat
00:48:07
matt
Mm-hmm.
00:48:11
matt
Right, right. Okay.
00:48:27
Conor Fowler
Why do you think that?
00:48:29
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I don't know, I think it might be because of the my shape. I think a flat front is...
00:48:32
Conor Fowler
Because I think that the big, like for me, like I'm getting rid of all my pants that don't have pleats.
00:48:37
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Really?
00:48:39
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Cause like, well, so I feel like it, um like by design, weirdly, they're meant to make you look wider.
00:48:39
Jack Lewis Whittaker
let's talk about Let's talk about that.
00:48:50
Conor Fowler
Uh, but I think that it does something. I feel the same way about glasses, right? It's like horizontal visual interest.
00:49:00
Jack Lewis Whittaker
yeah
00:49:01
Conor Fowler
And so if you're not wearing your glasses, you look like a weird freak, but then you put them on and you're like, oh, okay. That's like a normal person. And I know why, right?
00:49:08
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Sexy.
00:49:09
Conor Fowler
It's like the, there are many things that contribute to this phenomenon, but I think that the pleats like,
00:49:13
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:49:20
Conor Fowler
help you out in a similar way. It's like, ah is this person wearing an inner tube around their waist or that they have like weird folds on their pants? You can't be sure.
00:49:32
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So you're saying it's like, oh, I kind of get what you're saying, so it's all that distraction in a way.
00:49:36
Conor Fowler
It's a distracting element a little bit.
00:49:36
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:49:38
Conor Fowler
And I do think too, like, so I feel like a moron.
00:49:42
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Oh, crop shot.
00:49:43
Conor Fowler
I feel like a moron because I feel like ah I used to see people like hiking up their pants as they were sitting down. and thinking like, what a dork.
00:49:53
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:49:53
Conor Fowler
And now I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, they had the sacred knowledge.
00:49:57
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah. doesn
00:49:59
Conor Fowler
ah And so I feel that way with the pleats too. I mean, the pleats help you when you're sitting.
00:50:05
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Fuck, they do help you in the same. But I just feel like when I wear a flat, I get not all flat front. And I think it's important to call out when you do wear trousers pleated or not. think people underestimate how important the rear rise is not just the front rise.
00:50:18
matt
Right, right.
00:50:19
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:50:19
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Because I've got a bit of an ass and hips. If I can't get the trousers over those ass and hips, It's just like, so the trousers fit like this. And that yeah asked that's the most uncomfortable trouser I think you can wear.
00:50:31
Jack Lewis Whittaker
You kind of still want the backro the rear rise to be well, to be bigger than the front rise, which you should have anyway.
00:50:31
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:50:37
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But I feel like with flat front, I don't know, i just feel like I feel like it sucks everything in, in a way. I don't know. It might be a visual. It might be the similar sort of thing to you, but sort of flattens everything out. Not with jeans, though. i don't think... Jeans, I struggle with a bit. I love my jeans, but I think with like flat front chinos, especially from Greg, who who does all the other makes a lot of stuff that i buy. He's an amazing brand called He hey um he Sports, or HE Sports. But like those flat front chinos, I feel like it really puts it together...
00:51:07
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Nicely. I think my problem with the pleated then, Connor, might be because I'm buying the wrong size. Maybe i should go up a size so I can sort of get that that flow.
00:51:14
matt
Yeah.
00:51:15
Conor Fowler
And there is something to that too. Like i basically buy the biggest shit that I can find, which is like a 42 B, which I think is big.
00:51:26
Conor Fowler
Uh, and that, Hmm.
00:51:27
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Nice. Way to rub it
00:51:30
Conor Fowler
No, for me, for me, like, yeah, exactly.
00:51:30
Jack Lewis Whittaker
It's like i say, I know, but I...
00:51:33
Conor Fowler
Why are you doing this? Well, because they had the big fit stuff too, but this is a separate thing. It's it's just on the tag. um
00:51:40
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:51:41
Conor Fowler
I don't know. I find that they are awesome. I think that they're great.
00:51:45
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Might give that go. Yeah, because I wear 38 in all my chinos.
00:51:47
Conor Fowler
Yeah, see, report back. I mean...
00:51:52
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I might go for a charge my try, I might try a 40 in the Andrew. But again, it's just problems I'm not sure if I want to have. What if I end up loving them? And then lo lo and behold,
00:52:01
matt
Right. Right.
00:52:04
Jack Lewis Whittaker
i'm telling what I'm having to tell my partner, FYI, there's eBay going to be coming a lot. And then there's like another, there's a new addiction to add to the locker. I'm there trying to say, oh cut back on pleated. oh actually, I'm going to buy loads of pleated pads.
00:52:16
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So it's like, come on, I got
00:52:17
Conor Fowler
Well, this is actually a concerted effort. We talked about this before the show. We're trying to get all the pleated pants. And so we're having everyone sell them off because they're stupid.
00:52:27
Conor Fowler
We don't like them, ah
Ivy Style vs. English Tailoring
00:52:29
Conor Fowler
but we want to buy them. That's the secret.
00:52:30
matt
but so There's another part of the equation that I'm curious about. Jack, are are you a braces fan?
00:52:37
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah, i um i think I think it depends. think it's interesting, right? I think brace, to be honest, I think they look cool.
00:52:46
matt
Right.
00:52:46
Jack Lewis Whittaker
i think i think I think there's something about braces, like navy and burgundy braces, are just really cool with like a grey trouser, a flannel trouser or like that.
00:52:58
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But I also call it the wacky ones that Albert Thurston does.
00:53:01
matt
Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:53:01
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I think i mean you look at like sort so ah like Mr. Conner on here, you know, what he does, you can imagine him striped OCBD, pleated pants, braces, bow tie, nice sport coat.
00:53:15
Jack Lewis Whittaker
There's that sort of like madness to it, which I think is really cool. But I think also...
00:53:19
matt
Right.
00:53:20
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Do I wear myself?
00:53:21
Conor Fowler
appreciate it.
00:53:23
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Do I wear myself? i just quite like a belt. And it's like, i I'm not a fan of side adjusters either because I don't like the way, again, i get people find they're comfy, but do you know when you sit down with side adjusters, I don't like that the waist tab folds.
00:53:25
matt
Okay.
00:53:35
matt
Yeah. Yeah. i was gonna
00:53:37
Jack Lewis Whittaker
It might because I have a gut.
00:53:39
matt
i was going to say that, ah in my opinion, like when I was in a ah shirt and tie and you know suit or trousers every day, like trying braces for the first time with like a good rise was revolutionary for me.
00:53:44
Jack Lewis Whittaker
yeah
00:53:53
matt
Cause it was like, and I think that, that, you know, you talking about going a size up, uh, in the, you know, so it's, ah the waistband is floating a little bit more, but like, yeah, it's just, it, it, I, it made me a, a convert away from a belt because I was, I was all about the belt for a very long time, but like just having your waistband kind of float around you and like being in the same spot all the time is fucking awesome.
00:53:53
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Really?
00:54:21
matt
So comfortable.
00:54:21
Jack Lewis Whittaker
my give i get i think that's I think what I think will look cool at that as well and what i again, I don't want to call it in case it doesn't, ah again, i don't really give a shit. But what I think is um what I'm actually looking to do and what I'm seeing a lot more is like really well-dressed bottom half and shirt and then with like
00:54:30
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:54:41
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Again, I'm not sure of this, but this probably isn't revolutionary at all. And I've just been an idiot. But you'll see someone with grey pants or slacks, loafers, dress shirt, tie.
00:54:51
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Then they're just using a chalk coat or a hunting jacket or a denim chalk coat in lieu of a sports coat.
00:55:02
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And im I think that is so cool. like I think that is such a cool way of...
00:55:05
matt
Yeah, same, same.
00:55:07
Jack Lewis Whittaker
like such a cool way of like dressing and being and still being smart as well and i think that's the important thing is like you don't look like ah a slob you still look quite put together but in like a way that's considered and not like stuffy because sport coach I love sport coach because I love having pockets and I think if I can stop that for a choker now and then yeah 100% yeah
00:55:09
matt
I...
00:55:18
matt
Right.
00:55:27
matt
Yeah, totally. the The pockets are the key.
00:55:29
Conor Fowler
The pockets are unmatched, dude.
00:55:30
matt
Yeah, like, in and this is another hill that I will die on Use your fucking pockets.
00:55:31
Conor Fowler
They're so good.
00:55:36
Jack Lewis Whittaker
yeah
00:55:37
matt
Use your pockets.
00:55:37
Conor Fowler
See, this is Matt hasn't killed me, because I do actually use my pockets all the time, but I still just baby everything that I own.
00:55:43
matt
No, I mean, but like, you know, like going back to the store that I worked in, like all the, you know, all the dudes would carry like a card case and put it in their, you know, their interior jacket pocket.
00:55:44
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:55:55
matt
I like my fucking chain wallet, man. Like, and I like wearing a suit. So I'm going to wear the chain wallet with the suit. Like,
00:56:02
Jack Lewis Whittaker
um I'm a type 1 diabetic, so i carry insulin around mean needles, glucose, Yeah, so like I have so much shit on me at all the times.
00:56:12
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And I always tell my partner, like, even if it's like even if it's like a really hot day, I'll wear like a jacket of sub-sort because I hate having stuff in my trouser pockets or shorts pockets or jean pockets.
00:56:22
Conor Fowler
Destroys the line.
00:56:22
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Fuck it.
00:56:23
Conor Fowler
Destroys the line. All right.
00:56:24
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:24
Jack Lewis Whittaker
just uncomfortable as well when you sit down. it's so, ah you try and get something, nothing worse, you sat down, you got something like your short or trouser pocket, you try and get it out. You have to do that awkward stand up again, it out the pocket, sit back down again.
00:56:36
Jack Lewis Whittaker
It's like, come on, put it in your jacket pocket, just get sweaty. Don't worry about it.
00:56:40
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I think that's what, that's my view on things.
00:56:40
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:42
matt
Like, I don't want to, you know, I don't mean anything by this, but, like, you know, a jacket is, like, ah the masculine version of carrying a bag or a purse.
00:56:55
matt
And like, you know, like I can fit all my shit in this chore jacket.
00:56:55
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:56:59
matt
Cool. I don't, I don't have to carry a bag. Although I do enjoy carrying like a crossbody sometimes.
00:57:04
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Tote bag. I'm the same.
00:57:04
matt
Yeah. Yeah. Like i'm I'm not a tote bag person unless like I just need extra space, but yeah.
00:57:10
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:57:10
matt
Like, you know, they have two chest pockets and interior pocket and two lower pockets. Fuck. Yeah. Got, got my stuff.
00:57:16
Jack Lewis Whittaker
um ze I'll bring more stuff out for the fun of it. Even if I don't need it, I'll just put it in my pockets, line them up, baby.
00:57:21
matt
Right, right.
00:57:23
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Just get some more stuff. Get as much pointless stuff I can in my pocket. two heads Two pairs of headphones? Why not?
00:57:29
matt
Right, right.
00:57:29
Conor Fowler
Right, right.
00:57:29
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I'll carry them.
00:57:30
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:31
Conor Fowler
Because you can do it to excess.
00:57:32
matt
Hey, and you gotta gotta you gotta to have your phone charger, you know, just in case.
00:57:33
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:57:36
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah.
00:57:36
matt
Like, yeah.
00:57:37
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Laptop?
00:57:38
matt
right, right.
00:57:38
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Who knows? i want a big...
00:57:39
matt
Yeah. yeah
00:57:41
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Those... are What are they? The the Filson Bird of Prey jackets. Just...
00:57:45
matt
ah right right
00:57:45
Jack Lewis Whittaker
step and Full of corporate stuff in the back there.
00:57:50
matt
Yeah, there you go That's what the game pocket's for. The modern game pocket is.
00:57:52
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Yeah. Just the game of finance, game of corporate life.
00:57:56
matt
Right.
00:57:57
Conor Fowler
Right. ah
00:57:57
matt
ah Well, you kind of answered this question, but I really wanted to make this reference. ah
00:58:02
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Sure.
00:58:03
matt
And we were going to ask traditional English tailoring versus Ivy style. Where's your...
00:58:08
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Ivy style. Ivy style.
00:58:09
matt
ah yeah We know that now, but ah the... The...
00:58:12
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Ivy style.
00:58:13
matt
ah the ah reference that we wanted to make was English blood, Ivy heart.
00:58:21
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I think, I will say this for English tailing. I think if you... Again, if you have, i think some of the house styles on Savile Row are like so sick.
00:58:33
Jack Lewis Whittaker
like anderson Like Anderson and Shepherd, for example, like they're like double breasted suits are like just incredible.
00:58:33
matt
Right.
00:58:39
Jack Lewis Whittaker
And like walking when you walk down Savile Row and it's like, this is sick. Like it is sick.
00:58:45
matt
I can imagine
00:58:45
Jack Lewis Whittaker
Like it's so cool. And you like, you will obviously Drake's is on there and that's just an incredible store to visit. But before that, you literally walk past like Henry pool, you'll see downstairs them all doing the cutting is like, Like, yeah, i you do get that sort of like rush and think like, yeah, this stuff is sick.
00:59:02
Jack Lewis Whittaker
But I don't know, I think it depends for what as well, right? Because if I'm, if so obviously, i if I wanted to buy, you know, if I wanted to get Grail items right now, it would be like a three-piece sort of like, what was it, Taylor Cade, that Japanese tailor who does like the Ivy.
00:59:19
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:20
Jack Lewis Whittaker
I'll get that, I'll be that. But if i wanted like a tux or something, I probably would go British for a tux.
00:59:24
matt
Okay. Yeah, I can see that.
00:59:27
Jack Lewis Whittaker
So I feel like we do it quite well. And then especially of like the slippers, the Albert slippers and the camberbund. There's a lot of cool like accessories that are made by British brands as well, which are just really cool. Like obviously you get the suit on set. If you had the really i i found like a billion quid, you'd get the suit.