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Embroidery as a Trojan Horse with Sam Kerr
89 Plays3 years ago
Our guest is harm reduction advocate and freehand stitch artist, Sam Kerr.
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Transcript
Introduction of 'Apocalypse Duds' and Guest Sam Kerr
00:00:00
Speaker
and we are live, we are recording. Hello, I'm Connor Fowler. And I'm Matt Smith. And welcome to Apocalypse Duds. Today we welcome a very special guest, the Empress of Embroidery, the Hero of Harm Reduction, the Baroness of the Bobbin, the Nimble Narcoleptic, the applique angel, the freehand stitch phenom, the bean stitch boss, the tremendous threat with the thread, Sam Kerr. Thanks for joining us.
00:00:29
Speaker
How are you doing? Oh man, I think the nimble narcoleptic is the best one. I think so too. I'm glad you passed it. Because I originally had the nimble narcoleptic dam. I think it was the nimble narcoleptic with the needle.
00:00:48
Speaker
I thought it was a little too much. I think it's appropriate because of the amount of times that I fall asleep with needles and don't seem to harm myself. I'm very nimble with my needle placement and with falling asleep with it. I actually don't stab myself that much for the amount of needles that I mustache somewhere and drop.
00:01:15
Speaker
Yeah, Nimble with the Thimble was also on there, but... Ooh! Yeah, both solid. Now you're seeing inside my mind. Yeah. Connor actually came up with that entire intro, and I think I edited like two things. But that was the majority of Connor. So Sam, where are you from?
Sam Kerr's Background and Move to Baltimore
00:01:37
Speaker
Where am I from? Oh, good question.
00:01:44
Speaker
Sometimes when people ask me where I'm from, or like, to tell my story, I start with, I was born a poor black child. Because of the movie The Jerk.
00:02:03
Speaker
And it's like my favorite thing. But yeah, so I am from South Mountain, Pennsylvania. It is a mountain of 286 people. The majority of them are white. The ones that are not white are incarcerated at a place that is for sexual deviance and fire starters from age eight to 12. And then teenagers with felony drug and gun charges.
00:02:33
Speaker
And then an old tuberculosis award. So that's where I'm from. That's a real pottery of the most fucked up things you could ever possibly hear about one place at one time. And it's all combined. Yeah, yeah. Somehow all in this 200 and some odd person community. Jesus. What is the name of it? What is the name of the town again? South Mountain, Pennsylvania. South Mountain, Pennsylvania. Wow.
00:03:02
Speaker
Yeah, 20 minutes outside of Gettysburg, if you will, and I will. Okay. Okay. I thought it would be a really good joke about- But you're now based in Baltimore. Sorry, Matt. Oh, no problem. I was just going to make a really dumb joke, and I'm glad I didn't. Well, you might as well do it now.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say, does corn grow like it doesn't on Rocky Top Tennessee? Because that's kind of what the gist of what you described seems like to me. Yeah, it's not so much corn as it is racism. Oh. But you know. Similar theme to both places, I'm sure. Yeah. But you're now Baltimore based.
00:03:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I ended up in Baltimore after a second DUI, and I haven't left since. It was probably like 11 years ago. Nice. Yeah. Very welcome here. Yeah, absolutely. So what do you do? What do I do? I eat, I breathe. For work, I'm sorry.
00:04:20
Speaker
I would have gotten there eventually. I only do like seven things.
Harm Reduction Work with the Baltimore Coalition
00:04:24
Speaker
Yeah, I work in harm reduction with a group named Baltimore Harm Reduction Coalition. Okay. And what exactly is harm reduction? What a great question. I'll answer it with what harm reduction isn't. Voting. Even better. Harm reduction is not fucking voting. It is also not seatbelts.
00:04:50
Speaker
The school of harm reduction that I come from is a like a two pronged situation. So on the individual level, right, where we're meeting people where they're at, we're not leaving them there, we're giving people resources for them to make the best choices about their lives, specifically with around drug use and sex work, also including
00:05:15
Speaker
abortion at this point. But you know, when we talk about drug use, we're talking about handing out Narcan giving people syringes so that they can use drugs safely. Syringes
00:05:30
Speaker
snorting kits, smoking kits, sex kits, all that kind of stuff. And then on the larger level, it's a culture shift that we're going for, right? Harm reduction isn't voting and it's not seatbelts because we're talking about stigmatized and criminalized behaviors, right? That's what we're fucking talking about.
00:05:52
Speaker
And the mostly criminalized and stigmatized behaviors at this point in time are sex work and drugs, right? Abortion is like slowly but surely getting there because of the destruction of Roe versus Wade. And that black motherfucker, what is his Clarence, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Clarence and Sir Thomas Queen, Thomas Clarence. But yeah, so we're going like,
00:06:19
Speaker
We're attempting to do some kind of culture shift away from the stigma, away from the criminalization, and yeah, the racialization of the war on drugs. And so that's what it is, right? Although, you know, voting is like a hot topic. It's not stigmatized. It's not criminalized, which is, you know, there's stuff going on, but it's not criminalized. Wearing a seat belt, like, yeah, if you don't wear a seat belt, people might
00:06:49
Speaker
I don't even know if people looking funny anymore. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's not, that's to not wear a seatbelt. And if you don't wear a seatbelt, you might get like a $25 fine. We're not talking like your entire life being ruined because you were carrying, I don't know, a gram of fucking crack cocaine on you. Right, right. So kind of a follow up to that. What is Norcan and where can you find it?
00:07:18
Speaker
That is such a great question. Narcan, also known as naloxone, is the opioid overdose reversal drug.
Understanding and Accessing Narcan
00:07:25
Speaker
It only overdoses opioids, no other drug. In the state of Maryland, there is a standing order that the former health commissioner, Lena Wen,
00:07:37
Speaker
put into effect. And so in Maryland, you can go to any pharmacy and get it. If you just like go in and ask for it. I think on Medicaid, it's only $1. But if you have other insurance, I know it's like varying prices. You can also get it from any local like harm reduction group near you, like, you know,
00:07:59
Speaker
In Baltimore, there's Baltimore Harm Reduction Coalition, Charm City Care Connection, Baltimore Safe Haven. Yes, there's just a whole bunch of different places that carry it in that capacity. Health departments in Baltimore City at the very least, and I know a bunch of other counties also have it.
00:08:16
Speaker
And also like in the state of Maryland and in a lot of other states, there is a program called next distro. Wait, I think it Yeah, it is next distro. I used to saw I used to say next distro like bistro and people like what the hell you
00:08:36
Speaker
I was like, I don't know, like, you get coffee and some naloxone. You don't actually. So what it is is a male based program. And so, you know, if you're in a rural community, or if you're even like in the city, but you, you know, don't have access to any of this, like any of these different places for any number of reasons, you can
00:08:57
Speaker
go online and ask for supplies. And we send you supplies. And like, you know, just the Manila envelope with your name on it, right? It doesn't say like, this is for people who use drugs, like it's just a normal package. And inside it has everything that you ask for and probably information or I know information for how to get Narcan and other stuff in areas near you.
00:09:22
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah. I feel like sex toy companies should team up with Narcan providers because they're very good at discreet packaging. Oh my God, that's so true. You can get your sex toys and then, oh yeah, you can get Narcan on here also. Two for one special, baby. I love that. Exactly. Yes. Yeah.
00:09:45
Speaker
What do you say, AdamandEve.com? Right, right. If Adam and Eve and every other big sex toy shop or company that has online sales included this, might be able to normalize it a little bit more. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. That's a great idea. I have some. He's full of them. He's really full of them. Absolutely full, chock full of ideas.
00:10:10
Speaker
So you mentioned the name of your organization. Are you guys like an independent thing or do you collaborate with other types of like orgs that have the same type of mindset as you all?
00:10:26
Speaker
So we're nonprofit, but we can't, you know, we can't do anything alone in the city. We work with, I mean, we work with so many different things like harm reduction, specific organizations, Charm City Care Connection, Power Inside, Baltimore Safe Haven. But we also work with like governmental and quasi governmental institutions,
00:10:51
Speaker
Behavioral Health Systems Baltimore has a group named Be More Power, and we've worked closely with them for years. The Maryland Health Department and the City Health Department, we work on and off with them as well. It really is just trying to partner with as many people as possible and work with as many people as possible to make sure that we are covering as much ground as we can.
00:11:15
Speaker
So how does the outreach process work? I mean, especially in these communities that are like ignored wholesale by the government, completely ignored by the government, which I understand is a little bit of an oversimplification, but you know what I mean.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not so much ignored by the government as it is like a systemic, an intentional systemic racialized attempt at erasure and slash or containment of people in the space. And so we do outreach in Penn North in Baltimore. One of our former employees, Ricky Morris,
00:12:02
Speaker
has a really good relationship with Simmons Church. And so we have been at Simmons Church for years doing Narcan trainings, handing out Narcan and all the supplies that you could think of to use drugs and setting up demonstration overdose prevention sites.
00:12:21
Speaker
show people what that would look like. And we also work on Maryland Avenue on that strip that on the end of that strip that has all the methadone clinics. And so it's just like different we've been put up in different spaces, right? That's where we are. Trump City Care Connection is on the east side of town. A lot of people go to the west side of town because Penn North has
00:12:43
Speaker
I mean Penn North is known by lots of people because after the murder of Freddie Gray that kind of blew up so people know about it. South Baltimore has a whole bunch of people that go down there and basically it's like
00:13:00
Speaker
The health department helps us figure out what is going on, right? The health department is the one that has the statistics of overdoses that are happening in Baltimore City, where they're happening. And so we kind of make moves from there. Okay. Just out of curiosity, when you're going into these communities, does it generally take a while for people to kind of come around to
00:13:29
Speaker
you guys doing what you do? Or do you mostly find that they're pretty receptive to the work y'all are doing?
00:13:42
Speaker
I think that one of the core tenets of harm reduction is relationship building, right? We name it as a lot of things. We have a lot of cute, like catchphrases meeting people where they're at, not leaving them there, engaging in radical love and stuff like that. And so we are very intent on
00:14:01
Speaker
building relationships and community. And so that's why we ended up in Penn North with the help of Ricky, right? Because Ricky had already been in Simmons Church. He'd been going there for a while. He knew, he knew them. He knew, yeah, he knew Simmons Church.
00:14:18
Speaker
he knew us, and like us getting in there had a lot to do with that, right? And then from there, yeah, it's based on relationship building with people in the community. It's never it's never wholesale, like, Oh, God, get out. It's never wholesale, like, please stay forever and ever, right? And it also helps people that aren't exploitative, I guess is the word for it that are coming in, right? The outreach workers that work at BHRC
00:14:48
Speaker
are phenomenal harm reductionists. They're coming from a place of love. They have experiences of their own that they're bringing, and they're literally just going to be of service.
00:15:01
Speaker
And that's different than perhaps being a Hopkins student that's going to observe that might be from Wyoming, and it's the first time they've ever seen Black people before, right? Like it's a totally, totally different vibe. And so, you know, I think that at the beginning of the pandemic is when we really ramped up our services. And so,
00:15:31
Speaker
Dave Fell is our offsite services manager and he was driving around in his own car with like a BHRC magnet slap to it. He's a tall thin white guy and so they just kind of knew him at that point. It's like the white guy in the car with the sticker.
00:15:46
Speaker
Right, right. With the supplies and like, you know, he's, he's one of the most consistent. And I think probably one of the longest average workers that we've had that have been on the streets since then, him and the interim director Harriet.
00:16:04
Speaker
I cannot I can't do it. I can't do it. I was in Penn North a few times. And my upbringing was very, very, very, very white. And I didn't necessarily know I was black until 2015. And so whenever I started doing work in community, it just like
00:16:29
Speaker
It gets very big and then collapses at the same time. I have a really hard time being able to see all of the systemic and historical racism that has taken this neighborhood and made it what it is. And then the consistent policing to contain people to that spot is wild. And so I have a really hard time doing outreach.
00:16:53
Speaker
in Penn North because of that. And so I've done outreach there, but I've also done like Lexington Market and a few other spaces in Hamden. Okay. Yeah. So I actually just started working at Sandtown Elementary. So the neighborhood is familiar to me. And their area is familiar to me. And I think the police presence even to this day is
00:17:18
Speaker
like appalling I guess um so I was gonna ask when I asked you initially what you did and uh
Interacting with Law Enforcement in Harm Reduction
00:17:28
Speaker
how you did it basically you said that it involved working with the police and so I was wondering what that was like for you okay I would like to say I don't remember ever saying
00:17:44
Speaker
And I'm only saying that for, I mean, I'm saying that for multiple reasons, because one of them is ACAB. And second of all, I work around the police. In those scenarios, I have a really, it's another reason that I have a really hard time going to Penn North and doing work in that area.
00:18:05
Speaker
Because I saw a police officer walking around with an Espin tune if you don't know what that is Go ahead and look it up. It's a very specific to Baltimore Billy Club and 2001 I saw a police officer walking around with one and I was like, this is the most slave catcher shit I've ever seen in my life like absolutely not and so I I
00:18:28
Speaker
I don't particularly work in cooperation with them. Sometimes they come around and they stand to be intimidating, which is, I mean, there's not really a need for them to do that, considering everything that we do is legal. And so they don't interfere with us for the most part, and we stay out of their way. I see. Yeah.
00:18:55
Speaker
That's kind of what I would imagine. It would be like, you know, as you said, nothing you're doing is illegal. You're literally just trying to help. But unfortunately, I feel like a lot of times they are the first responders. So you have to interact with them in some way, shape or form. Yeah. Yeah. It's.
00:19:13
Speaker
I responded, the same day I saw that person, I responded to an overdose on that street. And fortunately, the first people we called, I called 911, the people that came were firefighters that were pretty kind at that point in time. But then that guy rolled around the corner and was like, well,
00:19:35
Speaker
And he was just, you know, I don't know, racist. Everything he said wasn't good. He didn't talk directly to me. He talked to the tall white guy that was there talking about how they don't, like it's unsafe for him to be in that neighborhood. So yeah, yeah. And those situations I'm just like, cool. I just did something that's like mildly traumatic for me and for the person that overdosed. So I'm going to walk away from you because I don't need to further this pain to myself.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So kind of an overarching question for us is how can, and I'm in Atlanta, I've got a lot of friends that, you know, are Narcan trained. There's harm reduction coalitions and things here as well. But how can, you know, you're just average everyday person help or get involved, you know, kind of the baseline things that
00:20:34
Speaker
one should know. I love that. So Narcan trained always, just really not hard, like super basic, super, super basic. I think there's a lot of fear around it because it's, there's, yeah, there's a lot of fear around doing it, which makes complete sense, but it's super easy. So that, and then the next one, like, I think honestly, the most basic one
00:20:57
Speaker
is if you follow a bunch of harm reduction organizations, first of all, do that. Follow a bunch of harm reduction organizations on social media and share their information. Cool. Right? Like the whole rainbow thing, right? There's another one that's like Uber drivers, like
00:21:19
Speaker
Uber drivers are now drug dealers and they're upset about it. Like, okay, cool, NBC. Like, you know what I mean? Like, let's just, I can't. I make memes all the time for B-More HRC so that I can put it up that it's just like, this is ridiculous. I just made a clown one about Rainbow Fennell. And it's really just like, if you see stuff and you're like, wow, that sounds sensational, think about it.
00:21:46
Speaker
You don't have to read the article, but maybe think that it might be sensational. And then share the stuff that the harm reductionists are saying because you can't overdose from touching fentanyl. Nobody's putting drugs in your kid's candy. I mean, Uber driver, Uber driver is delivering drugs. I mean, like, I don't, I don't even know what to say about that. I mean, you know what I mean? Like that's an off air conversation. Yeah.
00:22:11
Speaker
But others, you know, it's just like that's the I think that's the easiest thing to do is to cut down on some of the Fear mongering that comes with drug use. Hmm. Awesome. Yeah, and we're stigmatized sort of Yeah, yeah, 100% Let's just not let's just calm down as another just general question on this topic Where can you know, where can you get Narcan?
00:22:41
Speaker
Ooh, so I don't know where you can get Narcan. I'm assuming that you as an Atlanta. Yes. Like you obviously can get it from your local harm reduction groups. Maryland has a standing order. And so you are allowed to go into any pharmacy in the state of Maryland and ask for Narcan. And
00:23:06
Speaker
I think if you're on Medicaid, it's only a dollar. I think they do charge you through insurance. But you can just you can get it. Anybody can just walk in and ask for that and they can go. The second way is specifically in Baltimore. And actually, this is like a nationwide thing. You just need to check to see if your state is one of the states that does it.
00:23:28
Speaker
Next distro has a program where they will send you Narcan and things that you ask for if you like get on the site and just like look it up. It was originally designed for people with like people in rural communities or people that don't have access to syringe service programs.
00:23:48
Speaker
to reach out and ask for a Narcan. And we send it to people like Baltimore Harm Reduction Coalition, the space that I work in. We send that stuff to people throughout the state. We can also recommend people go to different health departments and stuff because some health departments will give it out as well. But I know that that has been a game changer for, like I said, people with disabilities, people in rural communities to get what they need.
00:24:18
Speaker
Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. This has been a very informative, yeah, just been a nice conversation about something that I feel like is very out there for some people just because of the stigmatization of drugs and drug users. Yeah, I think it's hard to wrap your mind around what an addiction is if you haven't
00:24:46
Speaker
if you don't have one, doesn't make sense to people. If you're like, just stop drinking or using a thing, it just makes sense, right? If you say, I'm gonna stop doing it, and then you just stop doing it, that makes sense if you're someone who can do that.
Challenges of Understanding Addiction
00:25:05
Speaker
I think it's also really hard for people, everybody has someone in their family who
00:25:14
Speaker
has chaotically used drugs and alcohol and might have caused harm. And so I think there's a lot of trauma that people deal with with people that use drugs. And it's like a giant, I think it's a big pain for everyone. Like I think that
00:25:30
Speaker
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong or morally wrong with drugs and alcohol. I think that the actions that we have done while on them have caused a lot of harm to ourselves and to other people. And with that, people have a really hard time opening their mind to the fact that it's not a moral issue and that everybody deserves to live regardless if they're using chaotically or not.
00:25:52
Speaker
Absolutely. I really like that. I have not ever heard using Chaotic Day. Of course, I know that's what it is, and my own experience with it is close to that. But I think that that is a very, I don't know, concise explanation of what's going on.
00:26:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We try to use humanizing language. Right. You know, I call myself an alcoholic because I am an alcoholic and I don't have a problem with that language. But, you know, when we are talking to people, we use words like people use drugs and chaotic use. Some people use substance use disorder and that one sounds too medically for me. Agreed. Yeah, I can say that. I'm like, nailed it.
Embroidery as Therapeutic Expression
00:26:42
Speaker
So I guess to continue talking about needles, in the lead up of the show, I was talking about embroidery and you a little bit corrected me to say freehand stitching. Could you delineate for us the difference between the two and maybe go over some basic terminology about that kind of art? No.
00:27:07
Speaker
So I can tell you that I cross stitch, I think, this is what I think cross stitch is. All right. This is speculation hour with Sam. I think the cross stitch is you use a very specific fabric and you use a very specific stitch and make like little X's all over the place. Okay. To create a pattern, right? I don't do that.
00:27:30
Speaker
I think embroidery is, there's like so many different kinds of embroidery. I think embroidery is the umbrella term for all of these different kinds of beautiful, intricate patterns and pictures that people make with thread, needle, thread, and fabric. What I do is that I put needle, I put thread through a needle and then
00:27:53
Speaker
from the trauma from my brain travels down my head, through my neck, through my shoulder, through my arm and my hands. And then I just stitch whatever is coming out. And so that's why I say freehand. I don't use patterns that other people make. I also don't draw stuff on it and just follow it. I just do whatever comes to mind.
00:28:24
Speaker
Interesting. And when did you discover your, you know, your love of doing this? I was looking in 2018, I was looking for a way to get the, yeah, to get the trauma out of my brain. And I was like, I used to like writing when I was like, seven, maybe that'll be a thing. And so I tried that. And I was like, this is tedious. And I don't like it.
00:28:49
Speaker
So I stopped because I have ADHD and I only do what I want to do. And I seek spirituality a lot. It's like one of the things that keeps me operating in life. And I had heard this class that a bunch of witches were teaching. And so I went to this class put on by Baltimore Reclaiming. Reclaiming is like a tradition that started in the 70s.
00:29:19
Speaker
in Southern California. And so I go to this training, it's about elements. We do a, when we get to the end of the training, we're talking about earth and we do a trance in which we're like laying on the floor, somebody guides us in this trance and we like
00:29:36
Speaker
melt through the floor into the ground and like connect with the mycelia in the ground. And then we were brought out of a deeper trance into a light trance and it was a like a craft spell. And the room had all kinds of stuff in it like stamps and markers, pens, paper, crayons, scissors all over the place. It also had a needle and thread and fabric and I picked it up and I stitched we are one and put a key on it.
00:30:06
Speaker
And the next day I went out and I bought a whole bunch of hoops and a whole bunch of fabric and a whole bunch of thread and I've just been doing it ever since. That was the one. That was the medium that I needed. Oh, hell yeah. Wow. Powerful. Yeah, very much so. So was it always as socially conscious?
00:30:31
Speaker
As it seems to be now, I mean, it seems like a lot of the work is really, you know, pointed, no pun intended. That was intended, yeah. You're a wordsmith. I didn't write that down, okay.
00:30:55
Speaker
Like I said, a lot of it came from my trauma, which is pointed for other people and not for me because I'm black and I've been that way the whole time I've been on this planet and this iteration. And so like the first one that I did a bunch of them in the beginning that were things that I remember from being younger, like jokes that I remember, content warning, not super great. One of them was
00:31:26
Speaker
Yeah, I love black people. I have them hanging in my family tree. And another one was I'm not racist. I have a colored TV. Oh my god. And so
00:31:46
Speaker
Yeah, so there's a little kid that used to say that stuff all the time. And so that's how it started. And honestly, a lot of the stuff just comes out because it can't stay in. These things, there are some that are just like, oh, I read that somewhere and I'm going to write it. I'm going to stitch it out.
00:32:06
Speaker
and that's like very few and far in between a lot of it's like it's burning in my brain and i have to get it out of my body and so it a lot of it seems pointed because it's based out of my trauma right like it's it's like sex uh it's like sex drugs and alcohol and
00:32:26
Speaker
racism. And so a lot of it, I think a lot of it's pointed for a lot of people, because they might not have experience in one or more of those areas, right? Like people, people will read my shit and be like, that is that's intense. Somebody Yeah, that happened. They're like, whoa. And I'm like, yes, and right, like, yes, intense for you, because you just heard it. But you're also white. So calm it down.
00:32:58
Speaker
You know what I mean? It's like, it was a Tuesday, you know what I mean? Like, you're reading it now and you're crying and like, that's unfortunate for you, but yeah, it was a Tuesday for me and I wrote it because I needed to get it out. And like, you know, recent events sparked that shit all the time. The world we live in right now is super intense. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's kind of part of the reason Connor and I started doing this. We're like, fuck, everything's going to hell anyway, so.
00:33:27
Speaker
Might as well meet some cool people and maybe do something interesting. 100%. Yeah. So I wish I could say that I coined this, but this was all my man Connor here. But when we were kind of like setting up this, you know, our questions for the interview and, you know, just trying to
00:33:50
Speaker
trying to come up with ways to talk about things.
Subversive Messages in Embroidery
00:33:53
Speaker
He described your embroidery as a Trojan horse and that kind of like, I don't know, for me as a third party looking at it, that's such a cool way of seeing it. You're being subversive and transgressive, but it's really just you and the stuff that's coming out of your head. How did you kind of like find, I mean, it sounds like you found that immediately, but how have you tried to
00:34:21
Speaker
develop that more so just just as time has gone on. So I mean, the fact that it is that the words are what they are in cross stitch like in hoops is already like subversive, right? Because what we're used to is like home sweet home. Cross stitch and shit like I know like, I follow a lot of really awesome embroiderers on Instagram, and there's a woman
00:34:51
Speaker
finger handle Steph X Stitch, who does like cross stitch, but she does makes patterns for cross stitches that say things like
00:35:03
Speaker
like, fuck the police, right? They just say things that are just, you know, subversive in that way. And so, you know, that's the thing that's becoming more and more acceptable. But initially, like, if you show that to people that are 50, 60, 70, especially people that are Black in 50, 60, 70, everybody has an experience of stitching with their grandma or knitting with their grandma, and the words that are on it are just like,
00:35:30
Speaker
completely amazing to them, right? They're just like, wow, that's not a thing that we, I never said something like that before in that way.
00:35:37
Speaker
And so just off the bat, it's already set up like that. And then everything else is like, I don't think that people, you know, I will step back and say that I didn't respect the stuff that I did as art for an extended period of time, because I was like, Oh, I'm just like out here stitching words on the fucking fabric. And like, my stitches aren't perfect. And I don't know the names other than like back stitch. Right.
00:36:03
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, I don't know any of the shit. But the reality of the situation is that, I mean, it's art because I say it's art, but it's also art because of the attention that I put into all of it. It's like, it is a Trojan horse, right? Like, yeah, you can see something. There'll be something at the, ah, what, it's not. I have one that's like, something about white terrorists, like white men being terrorists. Like, and we all agree that white men are terrorists, right?
00:36:33
Speaker
The picture that was taken, the picture that I took with it, it's like sitting on top of cloth that is very specific, like African cloth, first of all. Second of all, there's blood on it. It's my actual blood. Like everything that is done in it is like intentional and people don't know that, right? Like it's not a thing that people recognize and like, I'll have some that are misspelled and they're like, ha ha, that's misspelled. And I'm like, that's the
00:36:56
Speaker
yeah you missed the joke dude it's like articulate and it's got three k's in it that's intentional right like or or it's hard to read like i have one this right now that says church and state and they're overlapped
00:37:11
Speaker
And I say it to people. I'm like, it's church and state. And they're like, oh, separation. I'm like, yeah, separation. And they're like, it's hard to read. I'm like, yeah, it is. And so it's like a lot of the stuff that I do is really intentional and Trojan horse is like a great.
00:37:29
Speaker
It's a great, yeah, I mean, it's just a great way to say that. It's like, I'm just literally like shoehorning shit into this stuff because like, because my mind does that. And so I'm like, let me just get it out of here and put it somewhere. Hell yeah. I mean, it's kind of like, you know, as a musician being very, very much trained or just playing by ear and whatnot. And you're just kind of like, you're learning and getting better by playing by ear, essentially with a needle of thread.
00:37:56
Speaker
Yes. I can tell when I haven't done it for a while because I'm slower and it's harder for me to be like precise with the words that I'm writing or what I'm doing. Right. And so I have to get warmed up to it again. I think it's so good the like multimedia nature of some of them and to compare them to that
00:38:21
Speaker
whatever you wanna call it, heritage embroidery, right? Yours have curves in the lines. Whereas the Home Sweet Home is just about like rigidity kind of following that pattern. So I just think they're so good.
00:38:39
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and that's another part of the intentionality, right? It's like there, I have a few different fonts that I use and it's like, I haven't really thought about it in that way until I just said it, but it's like,
00:38:51
Speaker
I have one that says fuck the pain away. And it's just screaming, right? Like, it's just like, it's like, like, the F is only four stitches, right? It's just like, and everything is sharp angles, because it's intentional, right? Like, that's what it is. And I have some other ones that say fuck you or whatever. And they're like, it's like nice and pretty and cursive. Because again, it's like,
00:39:12
Speaker
that's that's the point um and a lot i use blood on them a lot because why not really why um i yeah i don't know because
00:39:30
Speaker
I think it's powerful. I think I also think that like, it's like putting another piece of me on there. And if people because people want to buy my shit, and that's like not why I started making it. And so if I if there's blood on it, I'm like, you're gonna have to give me all of your
00:39:48
Speaker
Like I'm not gonna give you, like I'm already giving you a piece of me by selling this, but like if you're taking like a literal piece that came from me or something that literally came from my physical body, like you have to give me all the money. I think you've touched on this a little bit in the answers you've said, but like what do you hope that people,
00:40:19
Speaker
you know, that peruse or buy your art kind of will take away from the work. I think it depends on the pieces. There, yeah, I think it depends on the pieces. One of my favorite, I don't do market, I just did my last market because it's stressful and
00:40:42
Speaker
I'm disabled and carrying that shit around is really intense. But one of my favorite parts about being in markets is being able to see people's faces when they read them. And a lot of them are funny, right? A lot of them say stuff that are just, it's just outlandish. And there are some, like I had one that was like, do you think, I think it was, do you think
00:41:08
Speaker
you think your rapist remembers you or something like that. And I had it hanging up and I heard a woman like came and was looking at it and just started crying. Oh my god. And like bought it right and just took it. And so there are just so many experiences that I've had where people are like, like I cut one up for someone the other day because I had one that was like, it said,
00:41:32
Speaker
I'm tired of remembering you, but it also looks like I'm tired of you remembering. And it was really like I could see that she was really like moved by it. And I kept trying to give it to her for free. Because I was being particularly pushy that day. And she was like, actually, I'm like having a hard time remembering stuff. And like, you know, I'm that's kind of what I'm doing in my life right now is like, I'm going to therapy to try to remember things. And I was like, Okay, cool. And so I took it and I cut it up.
00:41:59
Speaker
Um, I cut some of the words out and some of the stitching out for, um, so that it said, I remember, and I gave it to her and was like, you know, it's like, everything is versatile. And that was a moment that like, she just didn't, she didn't really know what to do. And she thought I was going to do something completely different than what I did in the first place. Right. And so it's like,
00:42:21
Speaker
I never really know what I want people to take from this stuff. I just get to see, I get to see and I get to hear what it is. Like they tell me what they get from it, right? And sometimes it's from their faces. Sometimes it's from like messages. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Very, very powerful. The way that it, that it works. And do you enjoy the face to face contact with people? Yeah, yeah.
00:42:51
Speaker
Yeah. Like I said, I didn't start making them to sell them. I really did just start to make them so that I could get the shit out of my brain. Right. Seeing people interact with it is really... Each time that I go out to do it, obviously, I want to make money. First of all, I'm like, yeah, go ahead and give me your money. But also, there's always one... I'm only out there for one interaction.
00:43:17
Speaker
There's always like one interaction with someone that is worth it, right? And there's like 72 other interactions where white people try to come up and explain my own work to me or, you know, white people like look at it and they're like, what do you mean, ACAB? And I'm like, I don't even, I can't do this with you.
00:43:34
Speaker
Well, you know, people, I don't know, I try to keep, I have to shoot children away from reading stuff about sex. You know what I mean? Like, there's all kinds of shit that happens, but there's only one interaction that I'm actually out there for, and I never know who it's going to be. It's always a surprise. But it's going to be something that's on that level, right? It's going to be something where somebody tells me something, where somebody reads something, and is taken back to a moment that they've experienced, or is now like,
00:44:03
Speaker
has been struck and is like, shit, like, this is now something that I have to think of. There's one that I made recently that says, um, are you afraid? Are you afraid to explore? I don't know, something in the lines of like, are you afraid to explore being queer? Are you afraid that you can't attract queers because you only appeal to the male gaze? And like,
00:44:31
Speaker
Yeah. And that one, like, people can't. I wrote it for me, but all y'all out here think I'm pointing at you. So right, right. It's very deep. And it's very like, um,
00:44:52
Speaker
they make you feel stuff. So I think this is a little bit of a cheap question, but I was going to ask you if you had a favorite one or one that you, well, I don't know. I was going to say one that you wish you had still, but I guess probably not. I don't know. There are a few
00:45:15
Speaker
I think that pretty much any of the white terrorism ones, I kind of wish I still had. Yeah, those were so fucking good. Yeah, because I liked those. I sold one that was, it said my name is and that had a line that was blank. And then under it, it says and I am a and then there was a line that was blank. And I made a whole bunch of words on felt and so you could interchange
00:45:40
Speaker
what you were like my name is Sam and I'm an alcoholic or my name is Sam and I am a I think I was feeling particularly upset about sex and love addiction and so there were ones that said like raging cum dumpster and stuff like that like I am a tired dicksucker like it just like and that one I wish I had that one again that one was I can make that one again but I wish I had that one still because that one was fun um right now my favorite one is
00:46:09
Speaker
I have two and one is just like, I just traced a pattern. I just traced a floral pattern. Because I didn't have anything in my head, but my hand wanted to stitch. So I really like that one. And then I have another one. And it is white and it has a pocket like a white pocket like a doctor's coat. And it has a brown nipple. And it also has a card in it that says
00:46:39
Speaker
insurance will not pay or insurance will not cover your nipples. And so the point of it is that like, you pull the nipple out of pocket, right? Like you got to pay for your nipples out of pocket. Because it turns out that if you have top surgery, some insurance companies will not pay for your nipples to be put back on your body.
00:46:59
Speaker
And I was like, that is literally the most ridiculous thing that I've ever heard. I'm not deeply surprised by the way that we operate. But you're literally going to charge me to put my nipples back on my body. What are you going to do with them? Sell them? You know what I mean? When you fry them up and serve people, put them in the back of my body. Yeah. So that one's one of my favorite ones right now. It's just like, yeah, you have to pay for your nipples out of pocket.
00:47:25
Speaker
I mean, it tracks so well with American healthcare that it's not surprising, but it's almost like a very head scratching thing. Yeah, it's like galling. Yeah, exactly. That's a good word for it. Yeah. So we noticed in your profile, your disclaimer about not taking commissions. We might've already covered this because your art is a very personal thing to you.
00:47:55
Speaker
We did want to ask if there was a particular reasoning behind the decision.
00:48:01
Speaker
Yeah, because I won't make it if I don't want to do it. Just flat out. I have ADHD. I already have a hard enough time doing things at work I don't want to do. You know what I mean? If I don't want to do something, I just flat out won't do it. And so there's two that I'm sitting on right now that I need to remake that I have known about for two weeks. And I'm still like, I'm like, fuck, I have to do this. But I still want to.
00:48:28
Speaker
So I haven't done it. You know what I mean? Like today I was like, I'm going to do it. I don't have to start working till later. Nope. I didn't start anything. Yeah. I'm actively sitting beside two needles that I have stuck in my couch with thread in it. And there is there, like all of the stuff is around me. I still haven't done it. So I just, yeah. And I don't like, I don't care what you want. You know what I mean?
00:48:53
Speaker
Like, I like to stitch words. I'm not going to make you a picture of anything. Even if you want me to stitch words, like, why would I want to stitch something that says, like, I love you, Kevin? Like, fuck that. Yeah, right. There are some of them that I have remade because I like to make them. One of them is Narcan saves lives, and it has the molecular structure of Narcan on it. Like, I'll make that all day because I actually like making that. Right.
00:49:19
Speaker
But if somebody asked me to do the molecular structure and have it say, like, no walks in, lose lives, I'd be like, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's plenty of people on Etsy that are OK with making whatever the fuck you send them as long as you pay them money. 100%. Let them have it. Yes. So I kind of think the last question
00:49:48
Speaker
that we had is kind of how you've seen your art
Racial Dynamics and Market Navigation in Art
00:49:56
Speaker
and freehand stitching as a broader medium, how it fits into the kind of DIY art, queer scene that you've been a part of and experience. I don't know. Honestly,
00:50:15
Speaker
Um, when I think about it, I think about it on like split, like on racial lines. Right. Um, more so than I do about like the queer lines. Um, I,
00:50:34
Speaker
Yeah, and I think about that because I think that I lean heaviest into my race right now as opposed to my queerdom because I'm tired. I'm a tired queer, so I'm just like, I need you to sit down over there. I'm fucking black and I got to deal with that right now.
00:50:50
Speaker
I'm not very good at incorporating it all. I just started recycling. It's a big deal because I was like, bitch, I'm black. I don't have time to recycle too. I'm not very good at incorporating different pieces. I think about it on that level.
00:51:12
Speaker
One of the reasons that I decided I was going to stop doing markets is because there are bigger multimedia pieces that I want to make, and those bigger multimedia pieces are speaking to me and my blackness as opposed to blackness as consumption for white people.
00:51:29
Speaker
Right, right. Right. Like the stuff that a lot of the stuff that I put out like my the majority of my followers are women, like women from like 30 couple to 50 couple that are white. Okay, right. And so they're fabulous. Great. Good job. And when I say white, when I say that I when I say women specifically, it's people that have identified as women like on the social media platforms. Of course.
00:51:59
Speaker
And so, yeah, that's, you know, there was a period of time where I played to that, right? Because here's the deal, I am poor. And so Black History Month is when everybody decides to give everybody money. Right. There are other times when people decide to give people Black people money, and it's usually when there has been some kind of murder of a human being, right? So when George Floyd died, every white person wanted to give me money.
00:52:26
Speaker
And every person wanted to share my shit and they wanted to buy my shit.
00:52:30
Speaker
The anniversary, it went down a little bit, but it's like, that's just the reality of the situation, right? We live in a shitty white supremacist, capitalistic situation currently, and so that's really what it is. And so I think a lot of it like that is that I feel like I'm in a space that appeals to whiteness, specifically like white women, because it comes out of this soft tradition
00:52:58
Speaker
It's made by somebody that's black. You can be helpful because she's poor. And also, like, if you're a virtue signaler, it's great to have that in your home, right? Like, you have a literal, this virtue signaling, like, and you have something that says, like, that calls other people out on the racism, it's great. And I'm not saying everybody that follows me is like that, but, like,
00:53:22
Speaker
I have had conversations with people that have been in that realm. I have told people that they need to paint me if they're going to ask me that shit in DMs. And I played into that for an extended period of time because I lost purpose.
00:53:40
Speaker
And again, purpose is shifted, right? Like I don't, I'm tired of that. And it's easy for me to play to the white aesthetic because of my upbringing. Like I have a fucking PhD, like quad masters in whiteness because of my upbringing. And so it's easy to play to that and it's easy for me to fall into it, but I am trying to be more appealing to myself and to people that look like me and to people that have experiences similar to mine.
00:54:10
Speaker
And so I don't think I'm in that realm right now. And the realm of queerness, like, you know, I made that one about the male gaze for a reason, right? Like, I just had a fucking three year dick sucking spree. And so, you know, I'm self-conscious about my level of queerness and where it fits in the world to begin with. And so I don't feel like I'm a part of that because of my own like insecurities and fear, which is like, you know, it's not real, but
00:54:38
Speaker
you know, I haven't figured that out yet. So I hope that answers the question. I just said a lot. That was awesome, man. Like you have, you have such a like, I don't know, honed in vision of kind of what you're doing and how you want to do it across the board, not just your art, but it sounds like, you know, yourself too. And like, really staying true to yourself rather than courting some bullshit that
00:55:09
Speaker
won't actually matter in the end yeah if i'm only here for a small amount of time and like i'm the only one that i'm supposed to like be counting on in the physical sense and like fuck the rest of you like like no shame no shame you know what i mean like no shame no shame i like i am i am incredibly into community and i'm also into community with people who are like-minded and so
00:55:33
Speaker
You know, liberals can buy my shit because they should spend money on black people to begin with. And simultaneously, like, you're not invited to the cookout, but you're also not invited to the commune. You know what I mean? Like, it's not. I think that's a perfect cherry on top of talking to you, Sam. It's been awesome. You know, it's been a delight. I have a question for you.
00:56:03
Speaker
Dude. Yeah. Both of you. Okay. Do you want to know why I dress the way that I dress? I do, actually. This is just kind of, you know, I don't know. For us, this interview was going to be more just about you and what you do and your art because that's the cool, you know, it doesn't always have to be about clothes, but I would love to hear why you dress the way you dress.
00:56:32
Speaker
Cool. Yeah, I was happy to do that. Because I'm poor and I want statement pieces. That's why. That's why I dress the way I dress. And because I like to play dress up.
00:56:46
Speaker
And just because it's Tuesday, doesn't mean that you can't do a full fucking makeup and full fucking ridiculous outfit. No, and you do. And when I said to you, I want to do a show about fashion with you, you were like, well, I'm not fashionable, but it's so you have so much you have so many different ways of expressing yourself. I think it's amazing.
00:57:07
Speaker
Yeah, I like to play dress up. And because it turns out that like what other people think of you like doesn't particularly matter. That out, I just shaved off my eyebrows and started doing gold eyebrows all the time. So like it's just kind of evolved. And then I can do whatever I want. And so like,
00:57:25
Speaker
Yeah, I have a bunch of statement pieces. I just recently got like regular t-shirts. Somebody gave me a bunch of t-shirts. So I'm like, okay, cool. I can wear these. I think you wear them around the house. I think that's the point. Why not dude?
00:57:40
Speaker
Yeah, because otherwise I'm wearing like fucking ridiculous dresses to take out my tiny dog in the morning because they are laying like close to my fucking bed and like, it's ridiculous. It's all part of it. It's all like what I want and I like to dress the way that I want.
00:57:59
Speaker
I am much better about doing it at work than I used to be, but I still do my makeup the way that I want to all the time. Hell yeah. What is your favorite way of dressing up just out of curiosity? That's a really good question. Damn. That's a really good question. I don't even know. Damn.
00:58:29
Speaker
So what I'm really thinking about right now is the fact that I really want to be a scene girl again for Halloween. So I'm thinking scene, but that's just because I'm thinking very short-sighted. But I will say that when I was a teenager, it was really fun to dress up as a little scene girl. There were so many ways. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Like now, it's... I used to dress up whenever I did events.
00:58:55
Speaker
And in the summer, I don't wear clothes. And it's not like, ooh, I'm sexy. It's like, bitch, I'm fat and it's fucking 98 degrees.
00:59:03
Speaker
If you think I'm going to wear clothes out here, you're crazy town. Like, absolutely not. And so there were a bunch of different outfits that I wore this summer. And that was fun. It was always fun to play on that kind of outfit. Because I forget that it's not like a thing that a lot of people think is normal, if that makes sense, right? Like, I'm not saying I'm a fucking special human being that dresses up.
00:59:28
Speaker
But I do encounter a lot of people that are like, how do you do that? And I'm like, I, again, it's like, I'm black. You know what I mean? It feels very much like that where I'm like, I don't know. I just woke up and decided that I was going to wear this wig that was pink, blue, and white.
00:59:44
Speaker
And I'm going to behave like it's normal because it's normal for me. And if you like people get a little thrown off, and then they realize that I'm just living my life. And so then they calm down. And I'm like, great, everybody's calm. And I'm still wearing the wig. It's great.
01:00:03
Speaker
Um, well, if you want, we can break for dinner. I think this has been like super engaging. I think all of the, um, all of your, because I have followed you for a long time and I have just really admired the work. So, um, you both your professional work and your private work, however you want to talk about that. Um, so it was nice to like get inside your head for a little while.
01:00:29
Speaker
Yeah, I appreciate your appreciating. Yeah, and the chance to talk about it. And to meet Matt, what is it like? Yeah, yeah, it's been awesome, man. Yeah, and, you know, it's not every day you get to talk to two honkies like me and Connor, so. Actually, it is. That's a bit of a problem, but, you know, you win some, you lose some.
01:00:52
Speaker
Of course, of course. But yeah, Sam, thank you for coming on. Everybody. Thanks for listening. We're apocalypse duds at apocalypse duds on Instagram. Apocalypse duds at gmail.com. If you have any, you know, questions or feedback and Sam, do you want to shout out your, your account?
01:01:13
Speaker
Oh, man. Yeah, it's complicated. It's not. Um, it kind of is. So we're gonna talk to you anyway. But you know, just for Oh, perfect. That's perfect. So first of all, everybody should follow Baltimore Harm Reduction Coalition. And the Twitter, Facebook and Instagram for that is be more HRC. And then my personal
01:01:40
Speaker
My personal stitching account is Communication Breakdown and it doesn't have any vowels in it. So it's C-M-M-N-C-T-N period B-R-K-D-W-N. Hell yeah. Obviously after the Led Zeppelin song Communication Breakdown. I mean, yeah, we love musical references around here.
01:02:09
Speaker
Yeah, I'm Matt Smith at Rebels Robes. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Fowler. Yeah, thanks for listening. And Sam, thank you again. It's been a been a real pleasure. Thanks for having me.