Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Dr. Mark Bailey on Science, the Health Fields, Looking Upstream, Interventions, Spirituality, and so much more!
526 Plays1 year ago
In this week's episode, we are joined by Dr. Mark Bailey. Dr. Bailey shares his invaluable wisdom on many topics relating to science and medicine. First, we explore our fundamental question: What is health? This snowballs into a discussion on balance and how it's related to health.
Next, we look at the philosophical concept of looking upstream. Dr. Bailey shares how this is a valuable tool to be used in assessing scientific research, as well as our own health. Delving into more philosophical concepts, we discuss if there is an end to scientific research and methods to reduce reductionism.
We continue on the topic of navigating the vast and confusing scientific and health-related fields, with a note on the state of these fields. We then explore which interventions are useful and how even doing nothing can be a good 'intervention.'
Lastly, we explore the relationship between science and spirituality. Dr. Bailey shares some irreplaceable wisdom in his concluding remarks. Finally, we discuss Dr. Bailey's new book!
We hope you enjoy the episode!
Transcript
https://paragraph.xyz/@beyondterrain/mark-bailey
Follow me
https://www.instagram.com/beyond.terrain/
https://linktr.ee/beyondterrain
Support the podcast
https://www.buymeacoffee.com/beyondterrain
ETH: beyondterrain.eth
BTC: bc1qqwc470ktgj3l4myqxr5hq67rnlqys0qm98u6f0
Support and Learn from Dr. Bailey
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Dr. Merrick Bailey
00:00:03
Speaker
I'm joined today by a very special guest, Dr. Merrick Bailey. I'm really excited for this one, guys. Merrick has obviously done some phenomenal work in the field.
00:00:15
Speaker
You know, I've been following him and his wife now, Dr. Sam Bailey for a while and well for a couple of years at least. And they provide some very valuable insight. You know, one thing that I really appreciate about the two of them and, you know, hearing them speak, you know, they're not hasty to jump to conclusions and, you know, because trends I find often
Dr. Bailey's Balanced Perspective
00:00:35
Speaker
go both ways. And so even we saw a lot of things with the spike protein and a lot of claims on that side of things. And I thought Mark always gave a beautiful,
00:00:44
Speaker
perspective on that. He was always very sound in his thinking. And so maybe we'll get into a little bit of his process today, but Mark, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Luke, thanks for inviting me on. And I've got to say, I love the name of your podcast, Beyond Terrain. I think that's a really good one. And straight away, when you reached out, I thought, sounds like a guy that's definitely on the right track. Yeah, appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, it was kind of fun coming up with that.
Evolving Definition of Health
00:01:14
Speaker
So I asked all my guests at the start, I asked kind of a standard question to get them to define health and what health means to them. I find this is a good way to get a little baseline of, you know, somewhere to work off of. So I want to ask you, what is your perspective on what health is? What does it mean?
00:01:33
Speaker
Well it's changed a lot over the years because as you know I used to be a conventional doctor trained in the system and of course back then I was very focused on the allopathic model but to cut to the chase I mean these days to us health really means a state of perfection and that
00:01:51
Speaker
You know, our bodies have been created in this perfect image and they should always be, well, the body is always trying to go back to that state. So to us, it's, um, yeah, we should aim for nothing less than perfection in our state of wellbeing. Yeah, very nice. I agree. Um, kind of seeking this, this balance, right? So, um, you know,
00:02:18
Speaker
Maybe you could speak on a little bit about what this balance is, right? How do you kind of assess what the balance is?
Medical Training and its Limitations
00:02:24
Speaker
Is it biochemical imbalance or energetical imbalance? How would you kind of describe that? Yeah, well, over the years, I mean, when I started out with my training,
00:02:34
Speaker
and through medical school and the basic sciences, how they were taught by the establishment. I mean, we were essentially taught that the body was like a chemistry set, that there was a series of biochemical reactions going on and it was a very reductionist type model and there was not much room for, well there was no room essentially for spiritual elements and there was
00:02:57
Speaker
actually very little room in the physical realm for even psychological elements like you know most of the time the work we did it was considered that the things that would go wrong would be say with genetics or the chemistry inside your body etc or you know there'd just be these so-called idiopathic or bad luck type things that would happen to you but over time
Questioning Virology and Virus Existence
00:03:26
Speaker
One feature of the research that Sam and I do is that we always like to go what we call upstream, looking for the source of problems. And as you know, we became very well known for doing that with virology when we kept on going further and further upstream. We can talk about that soon, but until we found that there didn't even seem to be viruses, they didn't seem to exist. But in our general research into health and wellbeing,
00:03:57
Speaker
we've gone upstream. We always get to the point where we arrive at the psychological state and the spiritual state and how much of the physical state follows on from those two kind of key principles. And we're not saying that physical things don't go wrong. You could be poisoned by things in the environment, you know, metals, radiation, even
Skepticism about Medical Models
00:04:23
Speaker
you know, what we've witnessed in recent years, these sort of psychological events on a mass scale can cause people to become unwell and manifest various physical symptoms. But yeah, in my mind, the more we learned about the body and health, the less we actually knew about the details of how it works and
00:04:47
Speaker
And I think you're right on the money there with how you describe the sort of work that we do is that we're very reluctant to jump to conclusions and say, oh, yeah, we know how things work. And we're more likely to say, actually, we don't know the exact details of how the body works down at the molecular level, et cetera. But we can make a lot of useful information. And, you know, you know,
00:05:12
Speaker
work out that you don't need to know all that stuff necessarily. You can have faith if you like, the body and nature.
00:05:20
Speaker
knows what it's doing. And if we just get out of the way and, you know, allow the terrain to do its thing, life is in this perfect balance, this perfect harmony. So, yeah, I'm very, I always, you know, because a lot of people ask us, they say, look, clearly, these traditional models, the medical models of health and that don't work. But what is your
00:05:44
Speaker
particular explanation for X, Y, Z, then we just say, well, we can show what's wrong with their one, but we're not necessarily going to create our own model, which could then lead people astray as well.
Importance of Humility in Science
00:05:56
Speaker
But we can point out that there are definite things you can do with the way you orientate yourself to the world and end up in a state of exceptional health, both spiritually, mentally, as well as physically.
00:06:14
Speaker
Yeah, very well put. I couldn't agree more. I think being able to say that you don't know is not only, I think a necessary thing for, you know, a scientist or a doctor to have in their perspective, like in their mind, right? Because it's quite a humble thing to say too, in my, in my opinion, like, um, to say that you don't know, you're kind of, you're kind of surrendering to the beauty and complexity of life in a way. And, um, maybe in a way honoring.
00:06:43
Speaker
the creation in itself and it's been something that has certainly becoming more apparent in my mind is that the more I'm looking into things, the more I'm like, oh, geez, I just don't think that we really know. Even when you start uncovering some of the problems in biology or cell biology or biochemistry, you start looking for alternative models and
00:07:08
Speaker
you know, often you could probably scrutinize them just the same as the one you just abandoned. So I think that's, um, you know, an important thing. And that's one of the reasons why I really appreciate your guys' perspective because you're not jumping to any of these hasty conclusions. And I think that's, that's important. Right.
00:07:23
Speaker
Um, but that's great. Yeah. To be honest, when you, you mentioned, you know, how we're looking upstream for something, I can't help but to think like that, that almost resonates with me as, as a way to look for something to look upstream, to kind of look for the source. Is that where you were kind of getting out there? Was it looking for the source or.
00:07:41
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
Skepticism about COVID-19 Narrative
00:07:42
Speaker
And a classic example was really late 2019, early 2020, at which point I had actually exited medicine in 2016. So I was very suspicious of the allopathic paradigm. I was never really quite happy with it. I was trying to find a way to work within the system, doing something that I was happy with, but never found it really.
00:08:08
Speaker
after 16 years of clinical practice, I got out in 2016. And then with the onset of this COVID scam, Sam and I just, we knew something was wrong. And at this stage, you know, I'd been out of medicine for three or four years. And it really struck us that, you know, when something doesn't make sense with the information that's readily being provided to you,
00:08:34
Speaker
So, you know, they're telling people that there's this novel virus, that there's this new disease, that, oh, the world's in a pandemic, et cetera. And it doesn't stack up with your own observations. It's a mistake to keep accepting the information that's being drip-fed to you. So, you know, the mainstream sources or even some of the alternative ones, they keep presenting the material within the certain paradigm.
00:09:00
Speaker
And for us, it was, we didn't have a background at the start of 2020 in virology, but we thought we better actually go on the search here for what this is all about because it doesn't make sense with in terms of the case numbers and the responses that they were doing and what they were proposing was going to happen, etc.
00:09:21
Speaker
So really for us it was starting to look at scientific references and this is such a big area that people need to know about. Just because you read a headline or somebody says something and says this study showed this, that doesn't mean that at all. Often the headline of the study or the abstract or what people think the study said is not the case at all.
00:09:47
Speaker
So we started looking, first of all we started with the World Health Organization documents and looked up some of those and they talked about novel viruses and coronaviruses. So we looked at those papers and
00:10:02
Speaker
if there were references because sometimes there weren't references at all. And we start reading these papers and going, well, I don't actually, this is funny because we went back to the textbooks and we'd say this is the definition of say a virus and it's a replication competent particle.
Lack of Evidence in Virology
00:10:19
Speaker
It's got a protein shell and some genetic material inside, and that it's the cause of disease. And we started looking at these papers which claimed to discover such things and found that, although the headline of the paper and the abstract claimed that this is what they'd found, when you read the entire paper, it was apparent that that's not what they had found at all, that they were jumping to conclusions, that there were these huge gaps
00:10:46
Speaker
and logic that they were using. And we thought, okay, well maybe it's just one or two times that they've made a mistake.
00:10:56
Speaker
started looking at hundreds of papers, eventually thousands, and realizing that this was the thing. And it wasn't just with things like viruses. It was with a lot of stuff we'd been taught, like antibiotics. And we just started asking questions. Like when we were working within the system, we were told, oh yeah, you have this pneumonia and you give this antibiotic and it fixes the pneumonia and you're all better.
00:11:20
Speaker
And we started thinking, well, where is actually the pivotal paper that established that or the pivotal evidence and just went on the search? Yeah. Time and time again, couldn't find these papers. And despite the fact that we were taught this, even our textbooks were misleading because they made these claims, but then they didn't have scientific papers to back them up.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah, that one thing led to another, and we just kept doing this. And every time someone said, oh, look, there's this virus, or there's this particular disease, or this is caused by this, or this is the genetic problem, we just say, OK, that's what you say, but we'll go back and do a full trawl of PubMed and the other scientific databases and see if we can actually find this.
00:12:12
Speaker
Shockingly, so many times, you just can't find the evidence.
00:12:19
Speaker
It's amazing. So that's what we mean. And I think the upstream philosophy, it's really useful, not only for just verifying scientific facts, but it's actually useful on a whole lot of other ways of being healthy, of saying, you know, if you might look at your diet and say, maybe my diet's not that great and things, but then you have to say, well, why is my diet not that great? There's more to it than that.
00:12:44
Speaker
Am I, can I just not be bothered like looking into my food sources or is it that I feel I shouldn't spend that much money on getting purified water or, you know, there's a whole lot of other things. And often you just, if you go higher and higher and higher, you'll reach a much better understanding of how everything works, not only in this world, but also with your own body. Great. Yeah. Yeah, very well put.
Reductionist Approach in Science
00:13:13
Speaker
Sometimes I wonder if there is no end going upstream, you know, and I feel like, and I can, I'll say this and I'll explain it a little bit. Like when I think of science, you know, and, and how we look at science from the, like the modern perspective, we can go, you know, we make these very surface claims, which would be kind of biology and it kind of all builds upon itself. Right. So you have like biology is kind of based on chemistry, chemistry, physics, uh, physics on mathematics.
00:13:39
Speaker
So you kind of go down, and I quite enjoy the study of mathematics, but as you're going down and even in physics, and now we're getting into quantum mechanics and all these nuanced ways of approaching the world. One, we're so far away from what we're claiming in biology, but that's a whole kind of different thing. But it all builds upon these very small things.
00:14:03
Speaker
Okay, well, at one point we thought the atom was the smallest and then we could go smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. And so, you know, sometimes I'm like, well, you know, science is kind of always producing an answer wherever it looks like. And I think that's kind of
00:14:19
Speaker
interesting to consider, even when you're looking at the literature, because it's like, okay, well, if you're conducting a study, there is a way to get the results you want, just on how you kind of do the study as well, right? How you process the data. That's a big problem now too, you know? And I was looking into the reproducibility crisis in the literature that, you know, there's so much literature that's unable to be reproduced. And I think this is an immense problem in the literature.
00:14:49
Speaker
But you know, it's like when I'll get back to my main point there, when we're looking, you can kind of go deeper and deeper and deeper. And so I feel like when I'm looking back on the root cause, you know, is it, if you're eating too much food or is there a gluttony aspect to it, right? Does it come down to emotion, you know? So I'd like to know your thoughts on like, where does it stop? Does it stop in the physical? How like, can you go deeper than that? How do you kind of look at that then?
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, well, definitely. And I think you raise a good point that there is, I think with the reduction, and don't get me wrong, when we go upstream, we're not looking to engage in reductionism. We're not trying to. We're just trying to say, where did this knowledge come from? Or how could we be sure that this would be a valid model?
00:15:37
Speaker
And I agree, I think when I was in medical practice, you know, I did pursue at times that reductionist approach going, how far have people taken this?
00:15:50
Speaker
if we've got diseases in the body, how far has it gone? And obviously, it's gone down to the level of the electron microscope, you know, where people are looking at things in the nanometer scale. And eventually, it became apparent to me that the answers were not there at all. And at that realm,
00:16:11
Speaker
people didn't even have any kind of control over what was happening. You know, not like the sense like you control what you can eat or the thoughts that you might have or the interactions you might have with your community. Those are all the sorts of things you can readily control. But down at this reductionist level, whatever model people come up with, whatever they say, you know, they might say this is what atoms, this is the model for the atoms or this is the model for electric current, etc.
Limitations and Perfection of Natural Processes
00:16:41
Speaker
We have to remember that there's so much of that that we can't control it anyway. These are like the laws of nature or the laws of God, whatever you want to call them. But they're not things that we can necessarily have any significant influence over at all. And I think that's the hubris that develops is that people think that they can interfere
00:17:05
Speaker
with biology at that kind of level when in fact, you know, we always have a related statement, which is that nature doesn't make mistakes. And, you know, it's not this thing that happens with us where suddenly, oh, whoopsie, nature slipped up there and made a massive error and caused all these problems. No, it's always coming from us, essentially. And it's always coming from a higher level. So it's what we do.
00:17:34
Speaker
with our own bodies, it's what we do with our environment, it's what we do in our interactions with other people that then have these physical manifestations and you may be able to see some of them with an electron micrograph.
00:17:46
Speaker
But that doesn't mean that you can go down to that level and start manipulating things on that. And there may be people watching us going, oh, no, I work in a laboratory and I'm a molecular expert and all this kind of stuff. I've been involved in all of that before. And I just think it's a dead end pathway going down to those
00:18:10
Speaker
know, molecular models, particularly with complex things with how the body works and how health works. Now, there may be engineering aspects which work with some of these models. So, you know, if somebody, an engineer is telling you what kind of steel you need for your bridge to support a certain amount of weight, then they may have models with how atoms interact with each other.
00:18:35
Speaker
But that's a different system than biology. And I think we have to be careful.
00:18:41
Speaker
we apply it. To me, to come back to your question, I've definitely been in that paradigm before. When I was looking at medical problems, health problems, and I found that the reduction of stuff was a complete waste of time, in that aspect, the reduction of stuff was almost downstream of what we wanted to do.
00:19:05
Speaker
Again, I think the upstream philosophy still applies and that you don't go.
Simple Health Principles
00:19:11
Speaker
The upstream doesn't necessarily lead you to what's happening at the atomic level. I mean, sometimes it can lead you to what's happening on the nanoscale with the information they can give you. And that's an example is virology, because they're trying to say, we've got evidence of this and that at the nanoscale.
00:19:30
Speaker
And you can say, well, even on their own model, it's incorrect. And their model might be wrong to begin with anyway. But yeah, that's that sort of, if that makes sense, I think that upstream doesn't necessarily lead you to a type of reductionism and
00:19:46
Speaker
probably like yourself, we've found that most of the time when it's dealing with health and community and these sort of really important issues, the upstream arguments come back to things. Really simple principles, right living, you know, right thinking and a spiritual connection. And if you sort out those, it sounds all too easy, but if you actually constantly work on those things, the outcomes are amazing.
00:20:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Very well put. Yeah. So I kind of want to ask a big question, you know, it's, uh, I want to know maybe for someone getting into this, you know, where do you start? Right? Because now we have these two kinds of paradigms and, um, maybe we'll kind of circle this into, you know, people who may want to work in medicine, right? What's the approach there? Like, cause it's, it's, um, you know, I'm sure.
00:20:42
Speaker
many have been through their challenge. I'm sure you have as well kind of transitioning out of the system. And so, yeah, maybe we can kind of address that a little bit if you have any advice to share, I guess. And yeah, so how do you begin getting to know this information? You know, how do you get working in this field type stuff? Like, I think that'd be pretty valuable for the listener. I think, you know, to cut to the chase, I think the medical system, which is
Critique of the Medical System
00:21:08
Speaker
you know, the medical pharmaceutical industrial complex is so broken that you shouldn't go into it. So, you know, like with my own, our own kids, if we would not want them going to medical school or anything like that, because we know that the model has been captured.
00:21:25
Speaker
Everything's co-opted and it's virtually impossible to operate within that system in most countries. The United States and other countries have had a little bit more freedom possibly, but are still under very strict control.
00:21:41
Speaker
And it's a real problem because if you go outside of their paradigms, you'll face yourself. What you'll be faced with is prosecution, basically, and taking away your license and all sorts of negative kind of things. So yeah, it's a really hard one. And I think if you're really interested in health, then you don't go into that system. And even some of the other schools, chiropractic, osteo,
00:22:10
Speaker
acupuncture or whatever you're looking at. A lot of those are under regulatory bodies now, which are quite nefarious as well. I mean, you only have to look at what happened during the COVID-19 era.
00:22:26
Speaker
And a lot of these quote, natural health people or alternative health people, as they call them sometimes, we're going along with the COVID nonsense. And, you know, a lot of that was due to the influence of the allopathic paradigm where
00:22:42
Speaker
for some reason, even people who are supposedly doing more natural medicine are still somehow really impressed by the pseudoscience that comes out of allopathy. And also because, just because, as I say, because of the way health practice is regulated these days, that it's come under the control of governments and their various agencies and institutions, and people are very controlled in what they can do.
00:23:10
Speaker
I think it's an interesting time. It's kind of exciting. I think people just have to, I think people need to do their own thing to be honest. Like Sam and I spend a lot of time just trying to provide information to the public to say that you don't actually need doctors and the system and you don't need
00:23:31
Speaker
It was a funny thing to give you an example of when I quit medicine in 2016. Up to that point, of course, I could prescribe any medication that I want and access to all of them. For a brief moment in 2016, I thought, I'm not going to have the right to have access to all of these pharmaceutical products that I used to have access to. I didn't miss any of them. I don't take any of them.
00:23:59
Speaker
There's nothing you know it's really strange and it's helping other people understand that as well that's not you don't need those things now don't get me wrong is.
00:24:10
Speaker
some things like emergencies, like if you have trauma and you've got terribly fractured bones or facial injuries, et cetera. Now the system is adept at dealing with those things. They can do life and limb-saving procedures, but let's be honest, that's less than 1% of the medical system. The vast majority of people are not turning up with bones sticking out of their arms or flail chests and all this kind of stuff.
00:24:40
Speaker
People are going in because they have some sort of pain or they're struggling with movement or they're short of breath, they're getting headaches or they're struggling psychologically. So people are turning up to the medical system with all of those kind of problems and the medical system is a terrible place to go. And it's not that we get asked, well, are all the doctors in on it? No, definitely not.
00:25:10
Speaker
I used to work in that paradigm and once upon a time I was partially trapped as well and I thought those models were a way that you could help people and increasingly just abandon virtually all of the models and to the point today where I'm not in clinical practice anymore and we don't tend to see patients.
00:25:31
Speaker
the only sort of things that I would keep would be tending to acute wounds. You know, we still use our old allopathic skills when it comes to wound care, et cetera, and acute events like that. But otherwise, you know, have completely abandoned all of it. So, yeah, I think it's really tough because, you know, you get people thinking, you know, that I want to become a doctor and help people, et cetera. But I would say with the current situation,
00:26:00
Speaker
And it's got worse, obviously, over about 100 years as the systems become more and more captured. But it's not a health system. And that's what people need to understand is that
00:26:12
Speaker
health and medicine and different things. The medical system is its own paradigm, so it serves itself. It's got models which sometimes help people, as I say, the acute kind of stuff, but most of the time it's a self-serving industrial complex which has got various vested interests such as the pharmaceutical industry, such as the medical testing and laboratory industries and a whole lot of other
00:26:42
Speaker
associated stuff that benefits from those medical models. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, you know, what I wonder your thoughts on
Holistic Health Interventions
00:26:58
Speaker
Like what types of interventions would be appropriate almost for healing, right? And it may be as simple as just, you know, doing nothing and sitting outside or, you know, I'd like to know maybe how far, how far can you take it? Because, you know, it's no doubt that as a population we're sicker than ever. Um, and it's, it's all, we've gotten so far away from a natural way of living. I wonder how far in your mind can you, do you stretch it, right? Like, um, I know herbology is,
00:27:26
Speaker
has been used for a long period of time, and now I don't think it is what it was in the past, per se. I think oftentimes we use herbs quite allopathically and just think, oh, this ailment and this herb, you know, maybe you could expand on that a little bit. Yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on all that.
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah, well, the style of health that we've developed is just a total way of living. And of course, we get sent information from all around the world and books, et cetera, and you'll get people become very passionate about one thing, like vitamin C or some sort of trace element or something and say, oh, if we take care of this, that will take care of all of our health now.
00:28:10
Speaker
what's kind of amusing from our point of view is that we've been seeing so many of these things now. There's claims that there's one thing that we're not doing right and people think if I just take care of that, but obviously they can't all be right because otherwise we'd have these conflicting models all in play all at the same time. And I think that also extends to thinking that if you are unwell,
00:28:40
Speaker
that there's one particular treatment that you can take because often it's multifactorial. So the body
00:28:49
Speaker
We were trained to identify disease within the allopathic system, so we were told that there were these specific entities that happened like measles or mumps or in the current era, COVID-19. All this kind of stuff, we were told there are these specific diseases that have specific causes and then there are specific treatments.
00:29:13
Speaker
Now we just look at that as a completely broken model now and see it that the body just has various conditions that it can go into. And sometimes you get like a runny nose and a cough.
00:29:25
Speaker
Sometimes you get a skin rash, sometimes you get diarrhea, sometimes you get sweating, et cetera. All of these are just elementary techniques that the body has, just trying to get rid of stuff. So waste products, toxins, various compounds that the body doesn't want in it, basically. So yeah, we sort of changed our views massively and realized that
00:29:52
Speaker
There are certainly conditions that are specific, say scurvy, for instance, because humans are unable to produce vitamin C. We're one of the few animals in the world that can't produce our own vitamin C. So your pets, for instance, they can make their own vitamin C. So if they get sick or if they get bitten by a snake or something bad, poisoned, their bodies go into overtime making vitamin C to try and
00:30:20
Speaker
neutralize the toxin or get them well again. We can't do that. So for some interesting reason, which may be biblical, the answer is maybe there. It's really weird, but we can't produce our own vitamin C. So there are conditions like scurvy where you can say, okay, well that person basically needs vitamin C and they will
00:30:44
Speaker
all of the effects of the scurvy, the bleeding gums and the problems with their bones etc will come right if we give them vitamin C to resolve their scurvy. So there are sometimes specific things like that but I think that's far less common. I think usually you've got a multifactorial thing going on.
00:31:07
Speaker
We usually break it down to these really simple principles for people and say, you have to address your diet. Most people in developed countries, they eat too much, so too many calories for what they do. Those calories are what you might call empty calories and that are refined foods, which are really depleted in nutrients.
00:31:32
Speaker
I remember Sam did a presentation, a video on vitamin C a few years back and we went through some of the takeaway products and I think there was a Domino's Pizza which had zero vitamin C in it. Somehow they managed to refine this thing so much that there was no nutritional value virtually left in the product so people were eating a pizza.
00:31:59
Speaker
And you think it's got a variety of ingredients, but some nutrients were 100% lacking in that pizza. It was absolutely incredible. And that's because everything's so refined and so processed. So point number one is not eating too many calories and making sure that it's high quality organic food rather than ultra refined rubbish.
00:32:23
Speaker
And obviously the dietary stuff includes water as well. So not being, not mindlessly just drinking whatever comes your way and thinking that the water's fine because you don't know what kind of contaminants are in it and stuff. So identifying a pure water source.
00:32:40
Speaker
Second principle is exercise. I mean, we are designed to move. And I always find it funny, you know, because I have a background as a professional athlete in the early 2000s. And people always say, Oh, no, we're not really designed to run.
00:32:57
Speaker
I mean, have you seen people running and running well? I mean, we absolutely, we're so well equipped to run. And I know there will be animals on four legs that can run faster than us, but often they don't have the endurance that we have.
00:33:13
Speaker
When people are in really good shape, they can run all day. They can keep moving. People move far too little these days and spend way too much time in the office sitting down in chairs. We're not designed to do that. Actually getting outside has a whole lot of other benefits for your vision and things like that because you're not focused on something that's really close to you anymore. You're looking at things in the distance and that's got some real benefits for
00:33:41
Speaker
keeping your vision strong as you get older, et cetera. Three is healthy thinking.
Principles of Health Emphasis
00:33:51
Speaker
So this is the psychological realm. And this is all of those thoughts that come into your mind of, oh, I've just been given some bad luck or it's not fair that I don't have as much money as this guy and I can't buy organic everything all the time.
00:34:06
Speaker
So those kind of negative thoughts will certainly lead to poor health outcomes. And it's really hard to help people if they're stuck in those negative thoughts. It doesn't really matter if you give them the best of everything. And this is why you see people like endless numbers of celebrities who have all the resources they need. There's no shortage of money.
00:34:30
Speaker
There's no shortage of access to the best foods in the world etc and yet they become incredibly unhealthy because the psychological state you know that they're in dealing with the fame and probably thinking that it was going to be better than it was.
00:34:46
Speaker
leads to a totally destructive way of being. So it doesn't really matter that, you know, that they can import water from France and get organic beef from New Zealand and all of that kind of stuff. It won't make a difference if their psychological state is, you know, is poor. And the fourth one is the spiritual connection, which for some people is really hard. They don't have that background and especially for
00:35:14
Speaker
You know, and it depends, like I was...
00:35:16
Speaker
you know, raised in an environment that was atheist and what you might call hard science, everything was based in like looking for empirical evidence, etc. And it wasn't until later on that I appreciated the spiritual realm as well. And this is categorically different than some of the other things we're talking about because spiritual matters are a matter of faith and, you know, which is different than say, using the scientific method to try and find out whether you can
00:35:47
Speaker
see if there are viruses or not, or trying to find out whether a particular drug does have any benefit for a certain disease, etc. Those are things that we can test empirically. The spiritual realm is different because it is faith-based, so sometimes we get
00:36:04
Speaker
allegations at Sam and myself that they say well we've noticed that when you look at a virology paper you dissect every single word every single diagram you just pull it to pieces basically and show why it can't possibly be true but then you accept God without seemingly any quote evidence and
00:36:26
Speaker
All I can say is that they're categorically different things and you shouldn't confuse the two. And it's it's something that people have to work out for themselves. And one of the influences that Sam and I had was a New Zealand physician who was active. This is sort of 1930s to 1960s, so a long time ago. And like us, he started off as a conventional doctor.
00:36:54
Speaker
was doing surgery prescribing medications and he just woke up one day and he felt God was talking to him saying, aren't you ashamed of what you're doing? You're making material profits and you're using these medical techniques to enrich yourself. You're not improving the health of people. And he had a complete change in his practice. He abandoned surgery, abandoned the drugs, et cetera, and started telling people
00:37:25
Speaker
From his own experience, that paradigm shift he had from being psychologically sick and unwell to developing that spiritual element. For him, for the rest of his life, he always made it clear to patients that you have to have that spiritual connection. Otherwise, you're
00:37:47
Speaker
health is a much more difficult road to get to. So yeah, that'd be the four kind of. So coming back to what you were saying about weather.
00:37:57
Speaker
there is particular things you can do, whether it's homeopathy or particular natural treatments and stuff. I definitely think there can be a place for all of that. But when it comes to what you are asking, how far can you take it, being your own physician if you like, I think you can take it pretty far. And most of the time, if you take care of your eating,
00:38:22
Speaker
If you take care of your water exercise, the psychological side of things and the spiritual side, everything just flows on. Like you'll find that, you know, and it's really difficult because sometimes you'll get people that will tell you, oh, no, I'm taking care of everything.
00:38:38
Speaker
and I've done everything and I'm still sick, so something you're telling me is wrong. And then say it comes down to something like their diet or exercise. You just ask, can I have a look in your pantry? Can I have a look in your cupboards just to see what kind of food you've got?
00:38:54
Speaker
They're like, oh, well, you know, I don't, I don't usually eat these foods. They're just there for a special occasion. And, you know, like, well, your, your shelves look pretty well stocked. So, um, maybe there are things you could address. Or you say, they say, oh, I exercise regularly. And you ask them what they did and they take the dog for a walk every day. And it turns out that that's like five minutes to the, you know, outside to go taller and back inside again. You're like, no, no, no. You need to go out for an hour, you know, to go for a run or go for a long walk or,
00:39:25
Speaker
you know, do some exercise in some other form. But yeah, there's a lot of things where it's really hard, you know, I think for people to accept that they are making mistakes with their life and you have to accept this with your kids as well. Like, you know, when our oldest kids were little,
00:39:48
Speaker
You know, they used to get illnesses and we'd just think back then, you know, this is a decade or more ago, we'd think, oh, well, this is just bad luck. The kids have picked up something, you know, in quotes or nothing you can do because everyone just says their childhood illnesses, et cetera. And eventually we abandoned that kind of thinking and said, okay, well, if our kids do get sick.
00:40:10
Speaker
that's a mistake that we've made. And we need to think of what we can do better. And over time, our kids have just got healthier and healthier and healthier. And, you know, some of our kids have not had any kind of medical product in their entire lifetime from the day they were born. And I'm talking not even creams on their skin, you know, not even the most basic cream that you might get in a pharmacy. You don't, we can honestly say from our own experience that
00:40:38
Speaker
If you do things right, you don't need any of them. It's amazing. Our youngest, we never even measured how much he weighs. Because again, this is the medicalization of life. It's something that the great Ivan Illich, I don't know if you're aware of his work, but it's really worth looking into.
00:41:01
Speaker
He was, you know, said a long time ago that we're just medicalizing life, basically. This is just normal life. And people are like, say, for instance, you know, people start measuring their kids' weights and sizes and all this kind of stuff. And then they get worried because the kid's too small or they're too big or, you know, they're told there's probably a problem. And I can tell you like how refreshing it's been to subsequently have children.
00:41:27
Speaker
And as I say, never ever get out a measuring tape or a scale or anything. Just saying that, well, if we embrace healthy living, the child will be healthy. And you can tell. I mean, people have lost this ability, seemingly, to
00:41:45
Speaker
think or see what health is and are so, you know, married to the medical system, this cradle to grave system. And they think they need to go to a doctor or some sort of medical facility to get advice and not realizing that that's not, as I said earlier, that's not the health system. That's the medical pharmaceutical system and it has its own scams and schemes that it's running. Yeah.
00:42:16
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, very well put. Yeah. Yeah. The psyche plays a central role really. And, um, even I think, and you were kind of pointing to this, you know, choosing what kind of interventions to use, you know, if you're picking yourself, right? You're, um, and you're confident in that, um, you know, our mind is, is very, very powerful. And I think that's really important to highlight. And the spiritual component, of course, I liked the way you put that as well. I think, um,
00:42:45
Speaker
If I could ask one final question, just, you know, is there a case that science and spirituality should, should have a marriage emerge,
Science and Spirituality Integration Debate
00:42:54
Speaker
right? I've heard scientists speak of this, like Rupert Sheldrig, that science and religion or science and spirituality are not necessarily separate. And, um, it's certainly kind of resonated with myself. You know, I don't view nature as separate from the spirit, you know, so I, I just, maybe I'd like to know, know your take on that.
00:43:13
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think it's this need that people have to categorize everything, isn't it? That they think that things need to fit into a box and, yeah, nature and God don't care for that because, you know, whatever models we construct in this mortal realm, it's irrelevant to
00:43:34
Speaker
whatever you want to call it, the laws of God or the laws of the universe or the laws of nature, etc. But yeah, just as I said, it's sort of to me, the using, we have to remember that a lot of science is based in empiricism, you know, so it's what we can observe through our senses. And which is limited, of course, I mean, they are amazing, don't get me wrong.
00:44:00
Speaker
like the senses that we have are incredible and allow us to perceive a lot in nature and the world around us. But they do come with their limitations. And so with empiricism, it's been useful for applications like the scientific method. But then you, yeah, there are aspects of spirituality which the application of empiricism is not so clear because
00:44:29
Speaker
you'll get people demanding that you do an experiment that involves God and something like this. And it's not possible to construct it because you can't create a situation where you have independent variables, et cetera, that you could potentially control. So yeah, it's an interesting question. And I think there are things
00:44:56
Speaker
that we can know without empiricism. And one example is just pure logic basically. And we can work out through maxims basically that you can't refute, that we can actually come to conclusions about how things work without engaging in any form of empiricism.
00:45:19
Speaker
And I mean, it's a complex argument and people have tried to use the claim that doing things in your head is a form of idealism because it doesn't necessarily match to anything in reality. But I think it's an unfair charge because if you're claiming that you're sort of going down the road nihilism where you're claiming that words don't have any meaning, that they're just sound that we've made up.
00:45:45
Speaker
in which case there'd be little point continuing any conversation because you could say it's all relative and he's making noises and he's making noises and they might not even be talking about the same thing. I mean, to me, that's pointless going down that road. And I spent a lot of time reading Austrian economics like more than decade ago and really appreciated how they applied
00:46:11
Speaker
pure logic to that methodology. The Austrian economists, they don't use empiricism to analyze economics. They're about the only school in the world that don't do that, so they don't have diagrams and equations for economics. You can actually see how they can show how it makes sense because
00:46:33
Speaker
economics comes down to human nature. And human nature is based in what they call praxeology. It's the logic of action, of human action. And it's really amazing to see that you can work these things out without engaging in empiricism. So yeah, that's just a little segue anyway into
00:46:55
Speaker
knowing that we don't need empiricism to prove everything, that we can work out things in our own minds without even having gone out in the world, if you want to call it that. And I think the spiritual element is, I would just say, sometimes it's just helpful to ask people to think about it. For instance, when I was at medical school,
00:47:23
Speaker
They showed us all the, we dissected brains and they showed us all the pathways that they said existed and stuff. And of course, in that model, there was no soul. There was just electrical connections. And you'd ask them at which point we became conscious. And they'd say, oh, well, you know, when there's X number of connections, like, you know, when there's a hundred million connections, that's when consciousness developed.
00:47:53
Speaker
And you're like, what? So like if it lost one connection, you're not conscious anymore, or if it gains one, suddenly you become, and it just, it made no sense, or that consciousness was, consciousness was a side effect, if you like. Like if you look up, I think people like Richard Dawkins claims that that consciousness is just this useful side effect that happened when our brains got so complicated and had so many connections that this thing that we know as consciousness appeared.
00:48:22
Speaker
If you have a look at how empiricism tries to explain consciousness, they get tangled up in themselves. And when I say empiricism, I mean like the traditional kind of medical models and scientific models that are prevalent in the world. So yeah, but in terms of the marriage between science and spirituality, it's interesting.
00:48:50
Speaker
I think, I can't see a reason why you'd automatically exclude them, but at the same time, as I say, I do view faith as categorically different from something like empiricism. Although I always, you know, one thing we say to people is, you can test God if you want, if you want to carry out your own experiment.
00:49:16
Speaker
it'll be n equals one because you can't really do it in a controlled setting with lots of people. I don't think it works out very well for people when they genuinely, genuinely try it. So yeah, but no, and that's, yeah, it's a tough one.
00:49:33
Speaker
Yeah, to me, I'm just happy to learn more about what other people have to say on that topic. Because as you know, yeah, we've spent a lot of time breaking down those empirical models that are in operation and health and medicine and showing why they can't possibly be true. Yeah. Oh, well, beautiful answer. And I appreciate the example you gave with the Austrian economics. It's something I want to look into. It's really interesting.
Navigating Information with Skepticism
00:49:58
Speaker
That's really interesting. Yeah. So any final thoughts from you?
00:50:04
Speaker
We just encourage people to not take anything at face value and particularly stuff. The landscape now is so confused in this world where
00:50:18
Speaker
There's no shortage of information, it's absolutely everywhere but the confusion is just hitting all time record levels because people are looking at Facebook feeds or Google searches and thinking that they're getting accurate information and sometimes that's stopping them from looking any further.
00:50:39
Speaker
And, you know, even at the moment and we're in this situation with, you know, this this COVID stuff where there's a hundred different opinions on what's gone, what's happened and what's happening and stuff. And I think for the average person, they listen to one person say something and then
00:50:58
Speaker
That makes sense. And then they listen to someone say something completely different and they go, well, that kind of makes sense too. And they really get lost. But it comes back to actually something you said earlier, which I think sometimes has relevance, a lot of relevance and is way more important.
00:51:15
Speaker
you don't always have to do anything. Sometimes you can just do nothing. And this is something I discovered as a practitioner when I was in that model as a conventional doctor, was that just because someone comes in the door and starts telling you something, it doesn't mean you have to do something. It doesn't mean that you have to give medications and run tests on them and tell them that, oh, they might have a serious disease, et cetera. Sometimes it's fine just to say, you know what, probably
00:51:45
Speaker
don't really need to do anything here. And I think for many people out there, they can do the same. Like if there's some headline saying, oh, they've invented a new virus and it's leaked from the lab and stuff like this.
00:51:59
Speaker
I mean, the worst thing to do is to get scared and think that, oh my goodness, this is coming for me or this is another threat to my life, et cetera, because those kinds of things, anything that makes you feel scared, sometimes that's an experience in real life, like if you're about to stand on a snake.
00:52:18
Speaker
You should feel scared because you don't want that thing to bite you. But if it's coming out of a Facebook feed and you can't actually see that it's got any relevance to what's happening in your house at that moment, then it's often best just to ignore it. And I think for people, there's just way too much information out there and it's just so much noise.
00:52:43
Speaker
Yeah, as you know with the way Sam and I operate is to just try and reduce fear for people and say that you don't have all these external threats going on, etc. Most of the things that you're doing and that are causing ill health are coming from within. It's the way you're living. It's the way you're reacting to the headlines. It's the way you're conducting your
00:53:11
Speaker
Eating habits and exercise etc. Those are the things I mean to give you An example, I think it was an assam to live who said that
00:53:21
Speaker
you know, if you talk to the average American, they're worried about terrorism and they're not worried about diabetes. And you look in America and you go, how many people have been the victims of terrorism? It's like, you know, some ridiculously minute number, like, you know, in your lifetime, it's like 0.00001% or something that you'll have anything bad will happen to you because of some
00:53:47
Speaker
whatever terrorist act they claim and and yet you know half of the population is going to end up with diabetes and it will really make them sick and potentially kill them but as Taleb pointed out he said they worry so much about terrorism that they don't see the very things that are killing them and you know you could argue too that with with random acts of terrorism
00:54:13
Speaker
whether they come from the ground up or from the government as they often do. You often can't do much about those things, whereas with diabetes, it's totally, virtually everyone, it's a lifestyle. They can modify their lifestyle and they won't get diabetes.
00:54:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's that's really important as those solid principles you don't always have to do something when it comes to Some you know fear invoking headline or narrative that's being presented to you And if you really just concentrate on what's happening at your level get yourself well first and then you can look further later on and
00:55:00
Speaker
I feel like it's very similar with what Sam and I have done. We've spent a long time learning about how to be healthy and how to live. Once you've sorted that out on your own front, then you can start going out into the world and maybe talking to people and trying to help others and stuff.
00:55:19
Speaker
Yeah. Instead, we kind of live in this situation where people who have no idea about health, including doctors in the system, but just about everyone who operates a social media account is putting forward their opinions. And so when they haven't even sorted out their own health, then they don't seem to have any. But no, I'm sure, you know, people, you're already
00:55:48
Speaker
you've taken the crucial step, which is to say, you know, maybe this, the mainstream models are wrong and we should look into this and start investigating other reasons why people get sick, et cetera. And I think that's really important. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, that was great. Yeah. And that seems to be something that comes back over and over again is just
00:56:15
Speaker
Honestly, the fear is worse than whatever's happening. You gave a good example that fear is not necessarily useless when you're being chased by a bear or something. There's a time and a place. You don't want to use it against you. When your Facebook ads are scaring you and invoking a fear response, it's time to maybe rethink things a little bit. Yeah, definitely. And again, it comes back to those psychological and spiritual considerations of
00:56:43
Speaker
actually living life rather than living in this made up realm of speculation about what might happen to you and etc. One of the reasons we became able to do this and not panic etc. once we worked out what was really going on.
00:57:04
Speaker
In 2020 was we just said we have to have, we have to be fearless basically because fear of what might happen will just lead to, it will definitely lead to bad outcomes because you're already living is how it's happened basically. Whereas once you develop that fearlessness and say, I will be taken care of as long as I walk this correct path, that means everything.
00:57:31
Speaker
And obviously, yeah, and you'll be well aware of this too. We've been very disappointed with a lot of the so-called health freedom leaders who take one fear model and then substitute it with their own fear model. And I don't think anyone's better off because, you know, yeah, if they say something like, oh, no, no, no, you don't need the vaccine, but oh, watch out. There are bioweapons that are about to be released and stuff. It's again, it's like, oh, no.
00:57:59
Speaker
And it's just, it all comes back to the same pseudoscience, you know, that siding. It's just that their story is slightly different from the mainstream. So yeah, it's, I think, as you know, that's why a lot of us who are in that no virus camp, et cetera, really tell people that these fair narratives are so destructive and you have to be careful of just being stuck in them continuously.
00:58:27
Speaker
You know, people are thinking that there are going to be vaccines that spread around in the air and that there are going to be secret bioweapons that they release and stuff. And we just keep coming back to it and say, look, if they can't show it in their studies that this is actually happening again, it's just it's just one more fair narrative that putting up people. Yeah, very well put. Very well put. Yeah.
00:58:55
Speaker
couldn't agree more. This is honestly, it's perfect. The message that, that I want to get across, right? And you're speaking it perfectly into an army there. So yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate everything that you do or your sound mind and all of this. And yeah, it's great. I want you to now maybe tell the listener how they can support you. And, um, I heard that you're just finishing up a book as well. So, you know, maybe you can touch on that a little bit and yeah, how they, how they can support you and keep learning from you because really, honestly, you're, you're one of the,
00:59:25
Speaker
one of the best in my mind of, of, of learning how to approach things even, right. And just how to learn. So yeah, please share. No, thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah. So everything's available at a doctor, sambailey.com. So D R S A M B A I L E Y.com. So there's so much free stuff there that people with hundreds of videos, there's dozens of articles, there's some PDF downloads. So the vast majority of stuff is available for free.
00:59:55
Speaker
People have the option of joining the Dr. Sam community. That's just $5 a month. So either through the website directly or through Substack. There's also the Odyssey channel and Sam still has a YouTube channel, although can't really post on it anymore. So when she had less subscribers, she was able to post stuff, but once her channel got too big, they really started to censor it. So we can virtually put nothing on here.
01:00:24
Speaker
YouTube channel anymore where the occasional thing goes there, but yeah, you know how it works with the censorship algorithms, et cetera. So, and yeah, we have a new book that hopefully will be released in the next couple of weeks. This book's called The Final Pandemic and it blows apart the entire COVID-19 narrative, but it also generalizes into all so-called infectious disease pandemics and it explains how they're not a thing.
01:00:53
Speaker
that essentially it just comes back to testing and classification issues and how the public have absolutely nothing to worry about. So yeah, it's a couple of hundred pages and the idea was to make it an easily accessible read because
01:01:11
Speaker
one of Sam's other books that she co-authored, Virus Mania, that's quite a big book. It's way over 400 pages, et cetera. So yeah, this is about half that size and it's really just punchy. Shows a lot of the recent events that took place in COVID-19 and just shows how silly they were and explains just that this can't be.
01:01:33
Speaker
This can't be, and it's amazing to look back at some of the stuff that they were doing in 2020 and 2021 because now it's even more stupid looking than it was at the time. It's just, you know, if people actually see it again, they'll be like, oh my goodness, how did I fall for this?
01:01:50
Speaker
So, yeah, so people can keep an eye out for that. But as I say, DrSamBailey.com, there's so much available there. And yeah, we start to lose track of what's there as well. So we've been fortunate that one of our viewers has put together a catalog of all of our question and answer sessions that we do each month as well. So because we've covered hundreds and hundreds of questions from the public. And yeah, we'll continue to do so.
01:02:21
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's definitely much appreciated. I know that. And it's very important. I'm looking forward to read that book. I think, honestly, you hit the perfect little niche in the literature that's kind of out on terrain. I think a nice, successful book is perfect. I'm looking forward to it. I'll definitely get that when it comes out.
01:02:40
Speaker
Yeah, no, we'll keep in touch and we'll make sure you get a copy because yeah, I think yeah, yeah, we've kept it, you know, entertaining as well as I mean, it is serious material, obviously. But I think people will see the comical side of things as well. And just just to say, look, you don't need to worry about this stuff. They're not making, you know, bioweapons and all this kind of stuff, but they do want to control you. That's definitely what they want. Yeah, that's true.
01:03:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, very well put. That's great. Dr. Bailey, thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you. Great. All right. I want to thank you all for listening. You should all know this is not medical advice. This is for your general information purposes only. But also remember, we're all responsible, sovereign beings capable of thinking, criticizing, and understanding absolutely anything. We, the people in the greater forces are together, self-healer, self-governable, self-teachers, and so much more. Please reach out. If you have any questions, comments, criticisms, whatever it may be,
01:03:39
Speaker
You know where to find me on Instagram and yeah, go check out Dr. Bailey's work and his wife as well. They've honestly taught me so much and I often find their work a fantastic reference. So yeah, definitely go check them out and virus mania is a phenomenal book. So yeah, listen, I really appreciate everyone that took the time to listen today. Give us a like, share, comment, whatever you're on, help support me and the podcast. I would really appreciate that. All right. Remember guys, there's two people in this world.
01:04:08
Speaker
Those believe they can, those believe they can't, and they're both correct. All right guys, take care.