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What's a renaissance man? With Hank Pine!
235 Plays2 years ago
This week on a very special Friendless, your pal James Avramenko unfriends musician, author, and Renaissance Queer, Hank Pine. They talk all about iterating on creative impulses, the hell that is editing, how many Robins Batman has had, and so much more!
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Transcript
Introduction to Friendless Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
Hey there, sweet peas. Welcome back to Friendless, the only show that tries to teach you how to be a better friend. Well, I lose every friend I have. I'm your host, James Evermako, and this week I unfriend special guest Hank Heim. Hank is a musician, author, and all-around renaissance man, and it was an absolute treat to reconnect with him.
Reconnecting with Hank Pine
00:00:27
Speaker
We talk all about iterating on creative impulses, the hell that is editing how many Robins Batman has had, and so much more. All this coming up, so for now, lean back, get comfy, set your volume at a reasonable level, and enjoy my interview with Hank Pine, here on Friendless.
00:00:53
Speaker
So welcome to the show, the one, the only, he is a musician, he is a director, he is an illustrator, he is an icon, the one and only Hank Pine. How the fuck are you today?
00:01:05
Speaker
Thanks, James. I'm great. It's great to be here. Yeah. It's sunny. It's sweaty. I'm in this tiny little room.
Challenges of Creative Environments
00:01:12
Speaker
It's like a Shirley Gnomes green screen room, basically. So there's lots of lights and green screens. This is her multimedia presentation room. Well, and we were just talking just before hitting record that we're both on the mainland, and it is stinker. It's real hot today. And these big heavy headphones are not great right now.
00:01:34
Speaker
It's true. I mean, I do construction, so this is pretty cush compared to that. That's fair. That's oh, man, I sometimes I'll drive by, you know, the guys just like in the beating sun in all their work here and they're doing the construction. And I just like I feel such a surge of like,
00:01:49
Speaker
Empathy and sadness for them, you know, yeah blows totally blows that being said I may take my shirt off at some point during this interview because it's please hot in here Like I actually really encourage that just even just for me. I know this is an audio platform, but for me I'd really appreciate it. So, you know They'll they'll be able to hear that exactly exactly the shirt coming off. Yeah
00:02:13
Speaker
So to get things rolling, for listeners who may not be familiar with you and your work, I'll put this very bluntly.
Queer Renaissance Identity
00:02:20
Speaker
Who the hell are you? I am Hank Pine. I am a self-identified queer renaissance man. Actually, I'd never call myself a renaissance man. Queer, yes, a renaissance man. Are you allowed to give yourself that title? Queer, yeah, you are.
00:02:43
Speaker
The Renaissance. It's weird when other people give it to you. Let me tell you that. Right. Right. You're allowed to give it to yourself. Yeah. Renaissance man. No, no, I would never say that. I have a hard time saying anything about myself. So let's see. I write a lot. So I wrote a book and I've written musicals and plays and comic books, but I also am an illustrator. So I've drawn a lot of comic books over the years for myself and for other people.
00:03:13
Speaker
And I play music and I compose music for film. And I recently have started directing stuff. So I wrote and directed a TV pilot.
Diverse Musical Journey
00:03:22
Speaker
I have directed a couple of music videos and I love that. That's kind of where all the things I like to do kind of together. I do a lot of things poorly. That's when people ask me what instruments I play because I play a lot of them. I say I play a lot of instruments very poorly because that sort of takes away the ego from it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not that I'm bad, but I'm not like
00:03:42
Speaker
really good at any of them. I'm okay with that. Yeah, sort of a purpose. Yeah, big time. Well, and that's kind of the beauty about, I mean, that's the thing about that, that I think someone like you, who has the capacity to or the ability to play these instruments doesn't realize is that like, if you can't pick up an instrument and play it
00:04:03
Speaker
Um, anyone who can make a sound out of that same instrument is already like a God, you know? Um, so like, I think it's okay to embody that a little bit more, take a little more validation of that. That's true.
00:04:16
Speaker
I am self-taught, so I'm proud of that. I taught myself how to play cello, how to play the piano, all these things that you usually go to school for. I play them weird, I play them with my own style, but it seems to work okay for what I needed to do. Absolutely.
00:04:34
Speaker
you know, on the topic of the music, um, where we kind of crossed paths initially was through Tom Foggville. And, um, I had never heard of you. You have a, I believe you still work with Lily now. We have our, our
Reunion with Lily Fawn
00:04:48
Speaker
first show in seven years in Vancouver is on Friday. Oh, so we are doing a reunion show. We've done weird
00:04:58
Speaker
Well, our sort of new rule since we've moved to different cities is if it's really fun or if it's a shit ton of money, then we'll do it. So so this one we're doing because it's really fun. Absolutely. And and it's going to be on Friday at the Waldorf and it's opening for or it's for the CD release of Kitty and the Rooster, which is a Vancouver band, which is another two piece.
00:05:20
Speaker
that wears costumes and writes hilarious songs that are very crass. So, you know, they really speak to me and Lily. So we're playing a show with them. Amazing. And so what was the sort of like the genesis of this act of Hank and Lily? Because there's, you know,
00:05:38
Speaker
there's like not only is there the performance and the music behind it but there's like a lore and there's these characters and you wear costumes and it's all this whole world right and so what was the sort of genesis of that and how did it come come about well lily and i played music together we backed up a musician from victoria called david p smith and a band called the whelps i played cello and she played musical saw and drums and that was a weirdo band but then
00:06:05
Speaker
I moved away and I was drawing comic books sort of to
Comic Book Mythology and Personal Experiences
00:06:10
Speaker
go with my music. And I didn't want to draw my own face over and over and over. It just seemed to like, you know, so I gave myself this mask and goggles and sort of create a mythology around myself so that I could talk about things I want to talk about that were hard, but I could do it through this coded language and sort of humor and absurdity. And when I,
00:06:33
Speaker
This is the long version or the short version. I got blood poisoning. I ended up in the coma. And when I got out of the coma, I was back in Victoria. And the first thing I thought was like, I should form a band with Lily. And all of the weird shit that happened in the coma world became this comic book mythology that we sort of started to explore the depths of. And Lily came fully formed. She had her Lily Fawn part deer, part girl.
00:06:59
Speaker
character already you know that's who she showed up as so the comic became about me being from a world of technology and the evils of humanity and her being like an ambassador for nature and the struggle between the two of those opposing factors and sort of our music became a reflection of that so there's
00:07:20
Speaker
this sort of like foggy concept albums and there's techno concept albums. Then we went into like hip hop stuff. So it evolved and changed. Every album was a different concept and it had a comic book that went with it that explained where the concept came from. Yeah.
00:07:39
Speaker
I still have the one that came with the album. Was it called North America? I just know it's the one with Lucifer on it. Yeah, that's North America. Yeah, and I still have the little comic and it comes with all the songs and the chords and stuff. The songbook. I treasure that, yeah.
00:08:01
Speaker
Yeah, they're out of print, so you should treasure it. Hey, don't you don't you eBay that shit. How did I know, you know? Yeah, we are doing a reissue.
Punk Roots and 'Dusted' Album
00:08:11
Speaker
We have a new album called Dusted that is going to come out and it's a return to our punk rock roots, which is something that we sort of came from the punk rock scene. Bands like Daddy's Hands in Victoria. A lot of the bands that became like the Montreal bands, Wolf Raid, all that stuff in the early 2000s.
00:08:27
Speaker
We grew up in the 90s in the punk rock scene, and that was the roots of our music. So this album is like a direct through line, kind of what we feel like is our core. Everything else, sort of all the other stuff is stuff we explore, but where we came from is this sort of angry, goofy, loud music.
00:08:49
Speaker
Dusted is going to be that on one half and then the other half is going to be a best of retrospective and then we're going to re-release the new comic with all the old issues together to tell the whole story. Sort of like, you know, a primer, if you will.
00:09:05
Speaker
yeah a little catch up you know yeah catch up because it's been we've been a band for 20 years you know so that's crazy but yeah and we don't play together that much anymore but we're still sure i still consider us a band if we never broke up i'm like thank you lily fun stick your bullshit
00:09:28
Speaker
that sounded like her voice talking to me so it should be like it was it was you nailed it yeah i was like wait one moment please i have to disrobe you got it actually do you i'm gonna i'm doing the same
00:09:45
Speaker
oh my god it's getting so sexy in here right now it's hard to even i'm yeah good thing the camera can't see this i was literally like i was like i'm waiting i'm waiting for hank to take a shirt off so that i can do the same because i'm like i'm dying right now so there you go listeners just imagine imagine what what you can hear um
00:10:08
Speaker
So there was, especially in the early stuff, there was this really deep connection to country music. And like, I've always been of the mind that country music gets a really bad rap of like the sort of radio country, right? Everybody thinks it's just going mud and drinking Budweiser, right? But there's this whole like culture and deep, deep roots behind so much. And there's been a bit of a resurgence recently of,
00:10:36
Speaker
acts really reconnecting with that sort of like, I hesitate to use the word authentic culture, authentic country, but like that sort of like, you know, tears in my whiskey type type stuff, you know, and and I'm wondering, was that like, was country a big
Country Music and Family Influences
00:10:52
Speaker
part of your life? Or was that just something you were sort of experimenting with at the time and have since moved away from or where do you mean? My name is Hank Pine, right? It's a very country name. Big time. I have a band with my family called the Pine family and we play
00:11:06
Speaker
country that moved into indie rock. We sort of flirted with doo-wop a little bit. So it's something that's my dad, he's always saying Hank Williams to us. It was just sort of around.
00:11:15
Speaker
for sure, which is why I rejected it at first. It was like punk rock. But then in Victoria around that time, there was this alt country thing happening. It was very strong. So punk and country went together and that's something I could get behind. And it didn't have a new country sound. We basically, the sources we went to were like Wanda Jackson and Hank Williams and all of these old country stars. So
00:11:43
Speaker
You know, Carolyn Mark was a big influence on my, my whole being and she is an alt country star. So that's sort of from her circle, spread out this country movement. And yeah, it wasn't something that we. Embrace. It was just sort of part of where we were at the time. And of course it came out in the iconography a lot. Yes. So I wore like a cowboy hat with a bite out of it and I had a metal cowboy shirt and all this stuff. Yeah.
00:12:13
Speaker
Yeah, that stuff was amazing. That that's how I sort of picture you when it when the initial, you know, when I remember that's that's how his picture he was in that cowboy hat and that like that outfit you had, you know, especially the trad the trad outfits. Right. Okay. I love it.
00:12:30
Speaker
And so, but you've kind of moved away in the years since you've really moved away. As you mentioned, you've gone into so many different styles. And I guess I'm wondering if you want to talk a little further about that, about like, how do you sort of
00:12:47
Speaker
like do you sort of choose what your next like style is going to be or is it more instinctual of just like I've been listening to this and vibing it so this is where my impulse is taking me or is it very a mindful choice of like we're going to do a techno album or a country album or
00:13:02
Speaker
It was very much concept albums. So we started like three albums at the same time. North America, I was like, when Hank and Lily formed, we got taken up by a Belgian record label. So we only ever toured Europe for years. And we never got to tour our home
00:13:21
Speaker
land of the US and Canada. So we were like, let's make an album for music festivals in North America. So I wanted to make the concept of that one is sort of a Pixies acoustic album with a choir. But that was like, this is what it is. It's Pixies music only on acoustic instruments with a full choir. This is our concept. And the idea being that
00:13:49
Speaker
We could add some sweet kind of Kim Deal harmonies to everything and we could tour around with a choir that we could assemble. If the parts were easy enough, we could assemble in every city and we would get booked at festivals based upon this like the stage show that we had. So we did a 1930s depression Dust Bowl era stage show where we covered everything in dust and we had these like
00:14:15
Speaker
It was like a traveling medicine show. So Lily made all these products and we had lots of accoutrement to make it look like a revival, tent revival kind of experience. And so that was the high concept of that one.
00:14:30
Speaker
And that was just because the first one was a little more just like the first two albums, which were a double album, were very much about being high, I would say, and a psychedelic experience. So this was we were trying to move it in a different direction. And at the same time, we had already been working on this techno album, but I put it aside. I was like, OK, we have these songs. We'll just put those aside. We'll do this now because we want to book shows.
00:14:59
Speaker
And then as soon as we had done those, toured that enough, we were like, okay, now we can do our techno album. So it's always been planned out. The order switched just cause I was like, the techno album should have come out, you know, right after the drug album. But instead, instead we wanted to have, we wanted to go to festivals. That's what we wanted to do as a band. So we focused on that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:23
Speaker
when you talk about like when you're you're sort of thinking about the direction of your writing and stuff like that this is something I'm always like as a writer I'm always really fascinated by sort of how other people um sort of take the reins or take control of their creative impulses and their creative directions and um because I'm someone who is like I'm very impulse driven I'm very just like
00:15:47
Speaker
Most of the time when I'm writing, I'm barely planning what I'm going to write. I just let myself start writing, and then I'm halfway through it. I'm like, oh, this is what it's actually about. And then I adjust, you know? And so- Which is a great way to do it. I cut out the censor. Yeah, I would say. I mean, that's the hope. That's always been part of the hope, is that it's like if I just get out of my way, something will come out, and maybe it'll be good, maybe it won't. Whatever, it'll be something, right? Yeah. But I'm really curious about what your,
00:16:15
Speaker
like, how do you sort of control those impulses? And how do you direct yourself personally with your work? Well, I think that that is a very valuable exercise. And I do it every morning, have the 10 things that not every morning, let's not be carried away. When, when I have the time and the ability, I will write one through 10 on a piece of paper, and I will write 10 things. And I don't care what they are, they don't have to make sense. Sometimes they'll make me laugh, sometimes they're not jokes at all. And
00:16:46
Speaker
It's a very valuable exercise. But when it comes to a project, I think I spent a lot of time like thinking about what it is, conceptualizing it.
Creative Writing Process
00:16:56
Speaker
And then I need the, you know, when you're bowling and they have those things on the gutters, what are they called? Gutter rails? Yeah, the bumpers. I need the bumpers because I'm a little bit
00:17:08
Speaker
I don't want to say ADHD because I don't want to misdiagnose myself, but I like to impulsively jump around a lot and then nothing gets finished. So I need those bumpers to apply myself and it helps the writing to have some constraints sometimes. But when I wrote my novel, I very much was like,
00:17:29
Speaker
cracked my knuckles, leaned in and just started writing and had no plan. And I thought that was weird and kind of a dumb way to do it. But then I read this book by Stephen King called On Writing and he's like, yeah, have a loose concept and then just start writing and the characters will tell you what needs to happen next. And you'll just sort of follow along and it makes it more exciting for you because you are like, oh my God, I'm along for the ride. And I was like, yeah, that is how exactly how I did that.
00:17:57
Speaker
But I had written a book way before I read the Stephen King book, but it did vindicate me and make me feel like, oh, so I'm not crazy for doing it that way. That's actually a really fun way to do it. So I encourage people to do that, to just start writing and see what happens.
00:18:09
Speaker
I keep on meaning, I've been meaning to go back to that style because I, when I first started like kind of testing the waters of writing, I read that, I read on writing, you know, just at a university. It was probably like 21, 22, something like that. And I was so inspired by it. It's an incredible book. I recommend it to everyone.
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not like Mr. Stephen King fan, but that book is incredible. Yeah. Just so valuable the insights to it, right? And so like encouraging, which was what was so nice, you know? Well, what was very surprising was his reveal that his wife basically worked the job so that he could be a writer. Yeah. Oh, that big.
00:18:48
Speaker
How do I become a writer? It's like, well, you can kind of marry someone that will pay the bills for a while or like, you know, that wake up call. I have yet to find that in my own life, but it's also like, yeah, it is a, it is a valuable part of the creative process is having a sponsor or someone to keep you going.
00:19:08
Speaker
Yes. Well, and that's so funny. That's been a whole new direction that I'd rather talk about is that like, that's something I think about all the time where it's like, that is a bit of an archaic system right now because we're no longer able to live off of single incomes, right? So it's like, if we have the hope for any type of security, any type of continuity of life,
00:19:28
Speaker
a couple can't survive on one income, you know? And so it's really, you know, doing these like, I don't know if, I don't want to say it's an intentional, I think it's just like an incidental offshoot of just like capitalism spinning out of control, that it's doing serious damage to like creative output and the ability to be creative because we don't have those flexibilities. Yeah, but that's what the robots are for, James.
00:19:56
Speaker
Well, okay. I mean, also on the other hand, it's like if you're looking at it with an objective eye, you're forcing someone else to work so that you can just kind of lay around and think and play, right? So it's not exactly a great system in the first place, right? No. No. That's why it's all very tongue-in-cheek. But it was striking to hear Stephen King
00:20:25
Speaker
pulled the veil behind that part of his existence. And he expresses his gratitude for it. And I think that that's, yeah, it's something to be grateful for. Let's just put it that way.
00:20:37
Speaker
Yeah, for me to finishing the book, I had a pandemic. So I had the government give me Serb and I was like, oh, wow, I can feed myself. Well, no time like the present. Yeah. I also had a near death experience where I was in a car accident and I was capable. Yeah. Yeah, too. And.
00:21:00
Speaker
I was incapable of like talking to people. It took like therapy and stuff for me to become less agoraphobic over a period of a few weeks. So like, okay, well, I can't just jerk off to porn like 24 hours a day. So what else am I going to do with my time? And so that's what I did.
00:21:17
Speaker
There's still 12 hours left in the day. So tell me a bit more about this novel. This was another section I really wanted to ask about.
Editing Challenges in Novel Writing
00:21:28
Speaker
I mean, you've talked about the initial, like the drafting and the writing, but
00:21:32
Speaker
um something else that i'm personally like fascinated with is is the sort of like a book's journey from like conception drafting into like editing and finally getting it published like editing blows editing it blows it's the worst it's the hardest part it takes so long yes yeah so i hired i got four friends that are writers to read it and get me their
00:21:56
Speaker
their feedback. And then I paid for a professional round of editing. And then I got it back and they're still typos. And I was really like, what the hell? And the editor was very, he said lots of nice things about the book. I was like, I don't need you to blow smoke up my ass. I need you to be merciless. So you got to find an editor that works for you, I think.
00:22:16
Speaker
Could that book be edited more? Yes. Did it need to just did I need to be done? Yes. Like, you know, there's a point where you have to just knowing when it's done is is a hard part for sure. But I'm always kind of like, let's get shit out the door person. That being said, I have lots of unfinished projects, but I do like I do like finishing things.
00:22:37
Speaker
And the thing that was holding me up with that book was I couldn't think of what to name it for longer than it took me to write the book. So I almost included this list at the back that's 200 different titles that I was bouncing around. And I was asking my friend, Lou, I was like, OK, I'm thinking of calling it Panoramica. And she was like, I don't like it. I'm like,
00:23:03
Speaker
And she's like, you know what, maybe don't ask anyone. Don't, you know, you tried that route. You're still, you're 201 titles in. Just like stop asking people. But then my dad said that he liked that name and I was like, okay, well dad likes it. So there you go. That's one vote.
00:23:18
Speaker
if just one person. That's right. They like it. Yeah. I mean, I love the title. So I mean, I really love the title. It sums up what the book's about. It's like the the idea of the character. It's the novels about playing with the notion of the omniscient observer. So it's about a guy who dies, becomes part of the universe and then sees everything that's affecting his life.
00:23:44
Speaker
on the day he died. So he has this panoramic view of everything, the entire universe, and how it's all affecting his entire existence. That's what the book's about. I love it. And how did you go about finding a publisher? What was that experience like for you?
00:23:59
Speaker
I want to do someone in Victoria. I want it to be local. So I reached out to tell well, only to discover that they're based out of the Philippines, but whatever. They have an address in Victoria, but that most of their stuff is overseas. It turns out. Yeah.
00:24:18
Speaker
but you still made it work with them. That's still, okay, right on. Oh, that's such a simple process. You always hear these horror stories, especially with first novels where it's like, we submitted it 50 times and every time reject it. Well, it's self-published. Oh, I see, I see. Yeah, so I paid the money. Gotcha. Yeah, and I pay the money and then they sort of like deal with all the digital distribution, et cetera. And now it is a print order book.
00:24:48
Speaker
So one day I hope it to be like penguin or someone to like reissue it. That's what I'm hoping for. I really just want to write another one, but I'm not allowing myself to write another one until I talk about this one more.
Love for Comics and Illustration
00:25:02
Speaker
Gotcha. Okay. I mean, cause it did just come out very recently, right? Like you gotta, you gotta let it breathe a little bit, baby, you know? It's true. Um,
00:25:14
Speaker
The other art element that I wanted to ask you about, and we've brushed up on it already a little bit, was your illustrations and your drawings. Now, tell me the story a little bit, because I got the impression you were doing, was it daily writing, or was it weekly, or what was the schedule you were on where you were doing your one-panel drawings? Yeah, I was doing those daily.
00:25:39
Speaker
it's called verisimilitude and they were like crude stick figures that were just basically gags and jokes yeah and usually really um so weird i don't want to call myself edgy but they're borderline offensive like they're just pushing pushing you know yeah pushing boundaries not trying to offend anyone of course but just they're
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know how to describe them filthy. I'll just say they're filthy. Yeah. So a lot of them were filthy and because that's what makes me laugh. And then I would do those once a day. So there's a bunch of volumes of that. And those were great because the drawings were just stick figures. So I didn't have to slave over it because I've been working as an illustrator for a while and doing comic book illustration and doing the hick and lily comics on the side. So I had
00:26:27
Speaker
been working with other writers and sort of they would take so long like i have lots of comic book ideas now that i'm just like when am i gonna find the time to do that it takes a long time to draw a comic so i've been working as a storyboard artist in film lately so that's me drawing keeping my chops up and
00:26:49
Speaker
you know, getting paid money for it, but it's, it's like comics are where it's at. That's my, that's my love, you know, cause it's, you get to be a director and a writer and all those things all in one and it's, you don't have to pay a film crew. So.
00:27:03
Speaker
So that's actually, I mean, I'm with you 100% about comic books and it's something that I've talked about quite a bit in the past on the show and just with people in general is just like how liberating the potential of comics can be. The only limit is someone's ability to draw it, right? Which then becomes obviously quite limiting if you can't draw, right? Well, but there's ways to work around that. Like some of my favorite comics are where the
00:27:33
Speaker
art is like I am an art whore and I'll go wherever the art is good. So I'll go into superhero stuff. If I like the artist, but there's a guy named Matt Kent.
00:27:42
Speaker
that did one called Mind Management and the art is crude at best, but it is tells a compelling story about this like spy network and it doesn't freaking matter. So it does like a Hollywood story with these crude drawings and it really works. I love that. I love that. I just read for the first time actually Bone. I'd never read it before and I'd always meant to get to it and I actually heard a podcast talking about it. So I picked it up and
00:28:10
Speaker
I was really shocked by how it eventually gets very detailed and very intricate. But especially at the start, it's not crude, but it's very simple. And all the characters are very cartoony. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And that was really inspiring. That was a really nice change of pace.
00:28:28
Speaker
But yeah, no, I think comic books are fucking magic and I wish more people read them so that I could talk about them more. Yeah, for sure. My plan was always to have a podcast called I Know Too Much About Batman based on conversations I've had with people like my friends really downstairs and my friend Carolyn Mark, where
00:28:50
Speaker
Carolyn was like, so he's like part bat, like he's bit by a bat, right? I'm like, no, kind of dresses kind of like a bat. And then I was explaining Batman's origin to Shirley about how the
00:29:12
Speaker
Oh my god, I love that. That's staying in.
00:29:24
Speaker
So, yeah, the story of Batman's origin is he's staring at a window and then the windows open and then a bat flies in and he's like, that's it, a bat. That's, you know, the comic book origin of him. And so then surely he's like, well, what if like a seagull flew in? Like, you know, I was like, yeah, then he'd be seagull man. He'd be seagull man, yeah. Although it although wasn't it rooted in that he was he remembered that he was scared of them as a kid?
00:29:47
Speaker
That was sort of a movie edition. Oh, okay. Where they needed to give more of a reason than a window was open. Right. Which is fair. Yeah. Oh my god. Oh, all the things that could have come through that window, hey? Yeah, right. The Moth, Mothman. Mothman. Oh, well, already taken though at this point. It's true. It's true.
00:30:13
Speaker
Do you want me to ask you a question now? I was about to say, let's change this up. I've got more broad esoteric questions from here. So I want to change things up and get you to ask a question. Well, these are sort of along the lines of what we had just been talking about. So that's why I'm curious. I asked you some comic book questions here. Yes. I have two that aren't comic book questions and some that are. So let's go with this one.
00:30:43
Speaker
Taking into account the prevalent worldwide state of superhero fatigue, who is your favorite superhero and why?
00:30:54
Speaker
I have the most dickhead answer for that. My eternal always favorite superhero is always going to be just after death of Superman, Superboy. The leather jacket, the jerry curl, bad attitude, the tactile telekinesis. I just like, he- I'm sorry, can we review tactile telekinesis so he touches something, he can move it?
00:31:19
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It was his like, it was, it was his one unique trait out because he was a clone. And for some reason he got other powers as well. And that was his big thing. And I remember as a kid reading that and just thinking that I was so smart for like reading those words and just being like, yeah, I'm nine years old. I know what tactile telekinesis is. Right. Yeah. I mean,
00:31:42
Speaker
sparked my curiosity the second you said it. I was like, I need to know more about this. Right. And just his like his perfect, beautiful, like undercut, like 90s dreamboat hair. Like I just just everything about him is perfect. And I will I will always fight anybody who wants to poo poo that character because they're wrong and he is he's perfect. So I'm still waiting for my Superboy movie to be done right. You know,
00:32:10
Speaker
That's a hard way. So he is a clone. He's a clone from Lex Luthor's DNA and Superman's DNA. Is that correct? And in this era, is he Connor Kent?
00:32:22
Speaker
he eventually gets that name he like so when they when they first introduced him because they did the thing where like Superman's killed and then there's this like it's called the reign of Superman and so it's superboy the cyborg super Superman the eradicator and then steal and they each took over one of the respective super Superman books while he was supposedly dead
00:32:46
Speaker
and yeah and super boy's origin was that he had been created as a backup clone but they couldn't if i'm remembering right they like either they couldn't finish the like the genome sequence or it was just that like luther like you know was crafty and so like decided like
00:33:06
Speaker
You know, if, if, if Superman's going to be in there, I'm going to be in there too. Right. Also because like secretly Lex was the just wants to kiss Superman so bad. Like, let's just, yeah, he was shipping them hard with creating a phone with our two DNA together. Literally. He's like, and now we're kissing and it's perfect. Right. Um, so yeah. Um.
00:33:28
Speaker
eventually they fleshed him out. They made him lose the leather jacket and he wore like a bad boy t-shirt for a while, just like a black t-shirt. And that's when they made him have a like a earth name, right? So he was kind of, you know, he was Con-El in the same as Superman's Kal-El. And then, yeah, then they made it Connor and Clark, right?
00:33:51
Speaker
Sometimes he's his son in like some because they've done all these like reboots and stuff, right? And those are exactly the DC continuity is is a lot and I keep up I try and keep up. Yeah, and it's still
00:34:05
Speaker
this whole, the new 52 dark times and stuff like that, where it was hard to really keep up with what he was doing. That was when I got, that's when it lost me. Cause I was like, no, I'm good. I just, I do not have time for this. No. Yeah. And so they've backtracked from that several times. Yeah. So now, and, but now currently there is a Jonathan Kent. That's right. Now he's got an actual son, but he's not super boy. No, he is Jonathan Kent, Superman.
00:34:34
Speaker
Yeah. For some reason. And then I don't know what happened to little Connor. Last I had checked in, he died in the
00:34:46
Speaker
I want to say it was infinite crisis. It would have been like mid 2000s. He got killed. Um, they probably brought him back at some point between now and then. Um, but I haven't, I haven't kept up on it in the end. Yeah. So, but you know, your era that you love and exactly, exactly. I mean, that is, that is a great answer. Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, I'm a Batman. Well, I'm a Batman guy for sure. Okay.
00:35:14
Speaker
Uh, just, you know, he's a Dick or whatever, but there's, there's something about the mythology that I can get behind. Like, I like that. He doesn't have powers. He's just rich and, you know, determined. And when he's done right, I really like it, but he's, he is, it's, you know, a lot of times the personification of that character is strange. So they have to sort of figure them out. Did you enjoy the Scott Snyder stuff that he did? Just, it was like, just prior to the new 52?
00:35:43
Speaker
I remember like, yeah, there was like the year zero and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scott Snyder did sort of like go and explore different crazy things. Like all of this dark metal sort of stuff, which I encourage him to, you know, mix it up, but I didn't really follow along. It was pretty heavy handed. But my question about is Batman related. My next one.
00:36:11
Speaker
How many Robins from Batman can you name and who is your favorite? Okay, so Dick Grayson, and then Jason Todd, and then Tim Drake, and then Damian Wayne, and then there's, oh shit, what is her name from Dark Knight Returns? You're doing really good. Carrie, Carrie something.
00:36:33
Speaker
I was going to say Cassie, but I think Carrie is right. Carrie. I think it's Carrie something. And then I know that they did, I think they made the spoiler into Robin at one point, but then she died or maybe it was okay. She had like a couple issues. Yeah. And then they killed her, like dad killed her or something like that. Cause it's like a mobster. Stephanie Brown. Stephanie Brown. Thank you. And then I want to say there's probably been a new one, but I've lost, I've lost track since there.
00:37:03
Speaker
I mean, those are all the ones I know, so I'm full masked right now. Okay, nailed it. And my, I think my guy, you know what? I have a tie because, so my all-time favorite Batman is always going to be like Batman 66, like Burt Ward, Adam West, that Batman is just, it's so perfect and I love it so much.
00:37:27
Speaker
And it's why I'll defend Batman and Robin to an extent because it was just Batman 66 with a budget, you know. But so I really love Burt Ward Robin, but I but that's I realize it's kind of sidebar because comics. I always really know it's fair in terms of comic comics. I like Tim Drake a lot because he was he was Robin when I was a kid. So yeah, he was like he was our era. Exactly. For sure. Yeah. So like I grew up with like Tim Drake.
00:37:56
Speaker
and sort of just, you had to like him, you know? That's what you got. But there was, yeah. And they've tried to make him more likable and find his little place, but he very often gets like pushed aside. And so I always kind of go for the underdog, of course. Yeah. So I need to, I think Tim needs a little work. I need to do something with him. Well, there was trying to do that thing.
00:38:22
Speaker
I'll still see like little snippets here, there, and they're always trying to do this thing where they'll be like, you know, Dick went off to do his own thing and Jason was angry, but Tim was always the detective one. And I'm like, you're, you're, I know you're trying to give him some flowers, but like, come on, like he's just, he's not that great, but I love him, you know, I love him.
00:38:44
Speaker
Totally. That's why I'm saying he needs a little more of a personality trait than the detective. Exactly, exactly. Well, it's like people who try to lead into that part of Batman where it's like, absolutely, that is an element of his character. But it's not like nobody's like, yeah, I can't wait to read this detective book. I mean, I do love that.
00:39:05
Speaker
It's a nice element, don't get me wrong, but it's like, I just don't think it's the front and center selling point of the book. No, I think it was at one point in detective comics. And then now it's like, yeah, it's more about him punching comics. It's a traumatized man punching, you know, poor people, right? Good old fashioned punching comics.
00:39:31
Speaker
Less detective work. That's the one. That's what I like to see. Can I ask you another question? I, you know, yes. Let's you. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, because yeah, I've got my, like, I've got my big, big friend questions, but I like this. We're on a roll. So I want to, and I love these questions. I'll talk comics all day. So, you know, I sort of, my next two questions are not comic book related. Okay. Okay.
00:39:56
Speaker
Muscle, this is your question, muscle, mosquito or moth and why? I'm not sure I fully understand the question. You have to pick one to be for the rest of your life. Like a muscle muscle, like a clam muscle. Yeah. Oh man, muscle, mosquito or moth. Yeah.
00:40:24
Speaker
I'm going to say moth. I knew you were. It's the easiest one. It's the easiest choice. I think because I don't like being in the ocean. I don't want to be in the ocean. You don't like being in the ocean? No, I know. I live beside the ocean and I don't like being in it. It's an illness, I know. Is it because it's scary or why? Yes, I'm terrified of what I can't see. And so when I'm on the water and I don't know what could be nipping at my feet, no, thank you.
00:40:53
Speaker
I get that. It's scary. Yeah, it's big. It's so big. It's very big. And there's whales. Yes. Have you seen a whale? I have. They wouldn't even they wouldn't even notice you if they ate you. They wouldn't even realize it. They just be like, you know, like, I mean,
00:41:12
Speaker
a whale. They don't eat people. They're bailing the big ones. But it's true. It's true. So what helped me, James, was I was a surfer in Tofino for four years. And you just like, I worked at the bug zoo for many years because I was terrified of bugs. And then I started surfing because I was terrified of the ocean and the whole exposure therapy idea. It does work. I did get over it. I am not as afraid of bugs as I used to be. So I love that.
00:41:40
Speaker
I need to get in the ocean more. I realize that. I'm actually feeling very inspired by that. That's a really cool thing you did for yourself, right?
00:41:50
Speaker
Yeah, but if something scares you, you should try it, you know, and maybe lean into it. I always had a prof back in the day at UVEC, he used to always say, run to the roar, which was like, you know, if something's scaring you, then you're in the right direction, you know, like, like, don't danger yourself. But you know, it's, it's, it's, it's okay to be a little, a little risky, right?
00:42:12
Speaker
Well, I used that rule for art all the time. I remember me and Lily were doing our first hip-hop show at a giant festival in front of thousands of people. And I was like, I'm going to vomit. I'm going to like mom's spaghetti everywhere. This is, we can't do this. And then my friend Wes Borg was like, yeah, but if you're not scared, you're doing something wrong. And I was like, oh my God, that totally just changed my whole mind frame on it. I was like, oh yeah, you have to do what terrifies you.
00:42:39
Speaker
When I was doing stand-up, I would talk about the things that made me the most uncomfortable, which was really hard. My voice would get all weird and I would have to sort of breathe through it. But that's where the comedy gold is. And when I'm writing songs, I'm like, what is bothering me the most? What is the most uncomfortable thing I can talk about?
00:42:59
Speaker
That's what I should write a song about. So my last song, Summergoth, was about like antidepressants, because that's something that I was like, people don't talk about this. Everyone's on them, but they're not like openly discussing it. Like you'll talk about once in a while with your friends, but even with your friends, they like slip it in once in a while. It's like, oh yeah, I want to fix it or whatever. But I don't want to actually get into it. Yeah, they don't want to get into it. So I found that very strange that it's not a common
00:43:28
Speaker
thing. And also the realization that almost my entire family is on antidepressants and has been for years. I was like, we hear that we don't tell each other this. This is just something that happens. So I was wrestling with that last summer. And so the song is kind of about that. It's about dealing with the notion of should I take this pill? Is it going to change everything? Is it going to make it better for me? Yeah.
00:43:54
Speaker
Oh, I love that. And that's gonna be on the new album that's coming out today. It is, yep. Amazing, okay. Well, the album's called Summergoth based upon that song. Gotcha. So it's about, yeah, being bummed in the summertime. I love it, I love it. It's interesting, actually, I just picked up Seth Rogan's book, your book, the other day. And in the very first chapter, he talks about a similar thing that you're saying, which is about like,
00:44:21
Speaker
his his first stand-up coach was talking about like nobody wants to hear about what makes you happy nobody wants to hear about like what you're comfortable with that you you have to talk about the stuff that makes you angry or makes you sad or or like something that evokes an uncomfortable emotion in order to actually figure out what you think about it and and in order to evoke something out of you know
00:44:43
Speaker
the person watching you, right? Because that's where real, you know, I don't want to say that's where real art is. I'm always hesitant to use terms like that. But it's like, but that is where more authentic expression I think lives is by indulging in the discomfort rather than the than the comfort of it all.
00:45:00
Speaker
Or it's that transmutation, that alchemy that comes from taking that and turning it into pure joy. That's what we're going for. I was just doing this with Shirley till 3 a.m. last night. We were going through her concept album and we're talking about she's wearing this faux kids album where it's very kind of like.
00:45:17
Speaker
trying to talk to children about what they should know. And her whole thing is like, I don't want to have kids because I would have to explain all the horrible things in the world to them and then follow that with, and I'm the reason you're here. Like that responsibility. Yeah. You're welcome. Here's some more horrible things for me to explain to you. And that's a fucked up situation to be in, which is all parents, all parents have that situation.
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah, finding the humor and explaining the horrible things was, is a challenge, but that's what, that's why they passed the big bucks.
00:45:59
Speaker
So on that actually, on that kind of note, you know, you've already been kind of expressing what could be in a certain like called advice about sort of creativity and these kinds of things, but I'm really curious about, because you're someone who I've observed, you know, have this, you know, you were in a, you've been in a band for 20 years, you've had this longevity of creativity, and you've,
00:46:21
Speaker
and you've continually challenged yourself and you've continually pushed yourself to be creative and not rest. And so I guess I'm curious if you have any like sort of cogent advice that you would give to somebody who was trying to kind of kickstart their creative processes, especially in say like in the music fields or in other fields that you have experience with.
00:46:45
Speaker
collaboration. That's I think being held accountable. I always like what keeps me doing it is encouraging other people to do it also. So I'm thinking about starting a songwriting course where it's helping people write their songs, people who don't normally write songs to write a song. So that is inspiring to me seeing other people partake and unlock their own creativity. Yeah. And so
00:47:13
Speaker
Collaboration is good for holding you accountable to doing it.
00:47:17
Speaker
and for inspiring you. I think doing stuff in the void is hard. Like writing that book in the void is hard. It's lonely. It's weird. And a lot of what I do is lonely and weird, you know? Writing songs can be lonely and weird. So getting together with people and playing them, that's where it's at. That's where you actually like breathe life into it. And you feel, you get the feedback loop going, performing, you get that feedback. That's sort of what keeps you going, I'd say.
00:47:48
Speaker
So, so yeah, get out there and interact with people creatively. That's not a worry, but you know what I mean.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah, no, I love it. And it's like, it's really, once again, you're like really making my brain like spider web out because it's just like, that's such a beautiful, you know, you know, when you hear those certain sort of thoughts or, or, you know, advice or, or just things like that, where it's so simple and yet it's like so massive and it's so like, cause that feels hard, but it doesn't have to be right. And it will fundamentally change everything if you just like.
00:48:23
Speaker
work with someone if you just like talk to someone, right? Just these simple things that feel massive and and aren't but will have massive, you know, echoes, right? For sure. I think that is the most helpful advice I can give because you can it can be a lot to be creating in your room. And I know a lot of people that are like making songs on the computer and then that's it. They're just making songs on the computer. They'll post them on SoundCloud or whatever.
00:48:51
Speaker
But that's about it. But when I encourage these people to come, I have a jam space downtown and I'll bring these electronic musicians and I'll put four of them in a room, all with their bleep loops. And they blossomed in that environment and they were energized by it. And since then, they've been way more productive.
00:49:12
Speaker
Because it was affirming to them that they're good, what they're making is good. And it inspired them by hearing sounds they wouldn't normally hear. It was really good to force those bleep, bleep people together. So this is one of those sort of like, this is one of the kind of like, tentpole questions of the show.
00:49:37
Speaker
The entire podcast is really an exploration of what it means to be a friend and how do we connect and how do we live in connection and these kinds of things.
Generosity and Vulnerability in Friendship
00:49:46
Speaker
And so I guess what I'd like to put to you is, again, one of those simple questions that can be massive is what does it mean to you to be a friend? I think you have to be generous with your time.
00:50:04
Speaker
You don't want to help your friend move that fucking thing, but you just fucking you do it. You know, I also I bought a minivan. So now I'm like everyone's best friend when it comes to moving shit. Yeah, it makes you really popular. So get a minivan or a truck and then automatic friends, basically. So I think sense of humor. You need to have someone you can be vulnerable with. And that is.
00:50:32
Speaker
very valuable. There's a lot of friends that I've had where there isn't that. Like I'm thinking, yeah, just a lot of my straight dude friends, straight bros, we just are very not that. And that's fine, but it sort of keeps us at this distance. I think that vulnerability is, is, and generosity with your time. You don't have to be generous with
00:50:56
Speaker
money or anything else, but it's time, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Life is busy for everybody and everyone pretends that their life is the busiest and they couldn't possibly, but if you're just like there. Yeah.
00:51:11
Speaker
And then you'll make that time, right? Like, cause it's, you know, yeah, no, I'm with you a hundred percent. I can't stand people who want to tell me how busy they are. I'm like, who the fuck isn't? You're living in 2023. Who the fuck isn't busy right now? Come on. Um, like for the listeners, what's one actionable thing that they could do this week to try and be a better friend to, to someone else in their life? Yeah. Help someone do a simple task. Hmm.
00:51:40
Speaker
People are not inclined to ask for help that often. But running errands, I love helping people run errands. I think that's one of the greatest things you can do as a friend.
00:51:53
Speaker
So just go with them to do something. Because I used to be really bad, where I was like, I couldn't go to the supermarket by myself. I couldn't do any of these things by myself. But then I moved into the woods in Tofino, and I was like, only by myself. So I had to confront that. Yeah. Confront that never being a lone thing. And so I think that if you can help someone with some sort of menial task, that's my advice. Because that is invaluable.
00:52:23
Speaker
It doesn't always have to be this amazing fun time. Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. Hank, those are all my questions. I only have one thing left that I have to do for the show. Which is unfriend me. Which is unfriend you. I got to pull up your Facebook here. But, you know, before I do, I just I really want to make sure I just I really want to vocalize just like how incredible I think you are. And like, you know, I recognize that we're not, you know, I wouldn't call us close friends, you know, but like,
00:52:49
Speaker
through we are now we're getting closer every every moment we're basically we're basically what's this only fans chatting right now literally yeah we're both shirtless uh yeah no one's paying anyone that's the best kind of only fans
00:53:06
Speaker
free subscription, baby. But like, I just, you know, I just, I think, you know, through the years, I've always thought so fondly of you. And I've always had such a deep respect for your art that you put in the world. And just like I said, just your continued creativity. And I just, I think you're an amazing guy. And I'm, I feel really lucky to have been in your orbit at different parts in our lives, you know? So I just want to say thank you very much for everything that you're always doing. That's very sweet, James. Okay. We got, we got one last thing to do.
00:53:33
Speaker
I'm pulling up your Facebook. Here we go. Hank Pine, we are no longer Facebook friends. So what about our messenger? Oh, yeah, you can still reach me. It's no problem. Yeah. This literally means nothing. We follow each other on Instagram. We can still message each other. It means nothing. It is purely ceremonial. So it's it's yeah.
00:54:03
Speaker
You've talked about your projects, but where can listeners find you if they want to give you a follow? Yeah. So I'm on Spotify as Hank Pine for my music. I am on Instagram as hunkotron, h-u-n-k-o-t-r-o-n hunkotron for comic book art and links to my book and all that sort of stuff.
00:54:25
Speaker
Yeah. Beautiful. That seems, and I mean, I'm on all the other ones, TikTok and those things, but that's that seems like the easiest one. That's the big focus. Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really, really appreciate this. My pleasure.
00:54:50
Speaker
And that's it. Thanks once again to Hank for coming on the show. I have such a big crush on him. Ooh boy. Is that okay to say out loud?
00:55:04
Speaker
It's done, so grow up. If you like the show, please be sure to give it a five-star review. Wherever you listen, reviews are so helpful to building awareness of friendless and they're free. And if you want more friendless content, open up the show notes and follow the link to sign up for the monthly sub-stack. You're gonna get recommendations for books, music, movies, podcasts, and all kinds of other stuff to distract you from the festering hellscape that is modern reality.
00:55:32
Speaker
You're also going to get new writing prompts with every newsletter to trial for yourself, along with some thoughtful tips on how to be a better friend to yourself and your community. I have to say, I'm really proud of the work I've been putting out lately. I do my absolute best to not send out something that's going to just waste anyone's time. So I make sure to pack the newsletter with nothing but goodness. I think you're going to love it. If you haven't signed up yet, the links, like I said, are in the show notes. So do it. Do it.
00:56:02
Speaker
But that's it for me, so let's wrap this puppy up. Thank you so much for listening through to the end. I will be back next week with a brand new episode that I think you're gonna love, and I hope you'll join me then. But I'm not gonna worry about that now, and neither should you. Why? Because that is then, and this is now. So for now, I'll just say I love you, and I wish you well. Fun and safety, sweeties.
00:56:28
Speaker
Oh.
00:56:57
Speaker
So.