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Finding Light in Dark Stories (with special guest Mel Zee)
0 Playsin 10 hours
In this candid and thought-provoking episode of "Friendless," host James Avramenko welcomes content creator and true crime aficionado Mel Zee for a wide-ranging exploration of friendship, online connection, and the psychology of digital communities.
James and Mel retrace the origins of their own friendship, sparked through TikTok, and unpack the evolving nature of meeting people online versus in person. Mel offers insight into her journey as a social media creator—the trade-offs between self-employment, personal boundaries, and wrestling with negative commentary when discussing everything from dating to true crime.
The conversation takes a deep dive into the world of true crime content: why it’s dominated by women, how it can serve both as a form of empowerment and a window into societal fears, and the responsibilities of creators to survivors and victims. Together, they tease apart the ethics of true crime storytelling, the dark allure of morbid curiosity, and how popular trends in media often reflect broader cultural anxieties.
Amidst tough truths about loneliness, loss, and the challenge of setting healthy boundaries, James and Mel share moments of hope, humor, and vulnerability—highlighting the importance of building connection, trying new things, and the radical self-respect that comes from saying “no.” The episode closes with heartwarming reflections on authentic friendship, the value of real-life community, and a practical invitation: throw a party, be brave, and make space for joy alongside all the heavy stuff.
Whether you're a fan of true crime, wrestling with friendship in the age of social media, or searching for belonging in a disconnected world, this episode of "Friendless" is sure to resonate.
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Transcript
Introduction of Mel Z and Episode Themes
00:00:08
Speaker
Well, hey there, sweet peas. Welcome back to Friendless. I'm your host, James Avramenko, and this week I'm welcoming to the show my online turned real life friend, Mel Z. Mel is a TikTok creator, a true crime deep diver, and an all around incredible human being.
00:00:25
Speaker
We explore turning internet connections into real life communities, how to protect your mental health, and of course, why we're all just a little obsessed with true crime. Mel is honest, hilarious, and just a little bit chaotic, which is exactly what we like.
00:00:40
Speaker
So let's dive into it now.
Work-Life Balance and Personal Boundaries
00:00:41
Speaker
Lean back, get comfy, set your volume at a reasonable level, and enjoy my interview with Mel Z here on Friendless. All right. This week on Friendless, I have someone who I met through TikTok um of all places, um as I just like choke on that.
00:00:59
Speaker
um and And over the year that I've known no her, um has become a really dear, close friend and and and just absolutely adore her. She is a content creator of her own content, as well as for others.
00:01:10
Speaker
ah You can hire her and you should. ah The one, the only Mel Z. How will the hell are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing good. I'm doing real good. It is. It's, ah you know, it's rainy here, as you know.
00:01:22
Speaker
And, but I'm not working. So that's nice. You on a break? Oh, well, it's right now. It's just after work, you know? I see.
00:01:33
Speaker
Yes. Any moment that we're not working is like, literally, literally. Thank God, you know? Yeah. um yeah i Yeah. I work for, I work for 4 p.m. You know, that's my, that's my, that's the, what do they call it? The magic hour, you know?
00:01:47
Speaker
Yes. Oh, 4 p.m. is nice. The 5 p.m. I feel like is brutal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've got an hour later, but Yeah. I've got it sorted so that I, because I start early, right? So, so, yeah you know, but, but that was a negotiation from starting at six in ah ah when I first started that job. So, so, you know, yeah. Small miracles, right?
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah.
Mel's Social Media Journey and True Crime Interest
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah. That's honestly my favorite thing. Like I don't make great money. I make less than I have at a lot of jobs right now running my own business. But honestly, the trade off for like, oh, I'm going to go to the gym this morning. Oh, I got, you know, something I want to do in the afternoon. And, you know, maybe not working one day and then having to work a 12 hour day. It's like just being able to, you know, customize my schedule is worth it for the pay cut.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yes. ah Yeah, that's definitely something I'm working towards. Let's talk about this, though. Let's let's start here. um You know, for for you know, i've I've obviously scratched the very surface of it. But but for listeners who may not be familiar with you, Mel, who the fuck are you?
00:02:47
Speaker
Oh. Um. me Who the fuck am I? I am a. I'm kind of weird.
00:02:59
Speaker
I'm kind of gloomy. I am, I work in social media, but I also kind of hate social media.
00:03:10
Speaker
Like I think everyone does. Yep. um That's the basis of this show. so be Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yes. um I don't know. I'm, God, I feel like, what do I even say? I'm friendly.
00:03:24
Speaker
That's great. That's great. You know, you know, um, um, So we crossed paths initially on TikTok.
00:03:35
Speaker
um and it's yeah And it's just like a you were the first person i have met online. um Actually, I think you're the first person I ever, like, formed a friendship online and then met in person.
00:03:47
Speaker
um Wow. Because I was always convinced everyone on the internet is a serial killer, you know? yeah So so i was really I really felt like I was taking my life in my hands. But i when we met, I was so depressed.
00:04:00
Speaker
Wow. that I was like, you know what? Either option is fine by me, you know? Like either I make a new friend or I'm dead and great, yeah you know? Yeah, that's the story.
00:04:10
Speaker
That's a great end to your podcast. Look what happened. Exactly, right? yeah um And I'm curious about like, what do what what do you remember about the that timeline? how the How the hell did we, I have very poor memory, especially from that kind of era of my life.
00:04:25
Speaker
um yeah And I'm curious, like, do you even remember how it happened?
00:04:31
Speaker
I mean, i remember that I was on TikTok a lot because I was trying to figure out what to post. I was kind of just getting used to the community and just it's such a very different place than any other social media platform. And so I was like, what is this? And who's here? And what are they posting?
00:04:51
Speaker
And you were like one of the first accounts that I started following and loved. And I just remember... um Because i I love meeting new people. I love chatting with people. i am genuinely very curious about people. I really have a lot of questions. I want to know about, you know, whatever, what they think about things, how they feel.
00:05:14
Speaker
and And that's why i love TikTok because they're telling you how they feel. It's just their face and they're telling you how they feel about things. And it's like, I feel like you can really get to know people quite well.
00:05:28
Speaker
Or so I hope I have some i have a little bit of faith in people where I felt like you weren't being insincere on there. like I guess maybe some people are.
00:05:39
Speaker
yeah um And so I felt like I already kind of knew you. yeah So it was like you i could be like, okay, check, check, check these boxes. yeah I feel like we could actually be friends. So wouldn't it be cool to just actually be friends?
00:05:53
Speaker
yeah Which is like kind of weird, I guess, but like I love that, especially for people who work from home. Yes. And like, you know, of how the fuck are we meeting people? like Exactly. You know, it's just it gets depressing. You're, you know, bored and lonely. And like, then you're seeing these faces online and it's like, man, I want I want to see those faces in real in real life. Well, and get past that glass. You know, I talk often about this idea of like, you know, I really value online connections. I think they're really on a really important part of, of you know, but I know they're important to my life. I know they're important to a lot of people.
00:06:29
Speaker
And at the same time, too, they they there is sort of a barrier. You know, there's a literal glass wall, you know, um between the sort of like the deep satisfaction of seeing somebody in person versus connecting with them online.
00:06:40
Speaker
And so, you know, I do remember it being like, um Yeah, you know, we connected and we were messaging and then found out you live so close. And I was like, oh, this is like we have to be because so many of the people that I was connecting with were like, oh, yeah, I live in Australia or I live in you know yeah Germany or whatever. I was like, well.
00:06:59
Speaker
I guess I literally live like 25 blocks from you, like on the same street, basically. Yeah, literally like just down the street, you know, and so that was really magic for me. um And that's so. So, you you know, you touched on a couple of things that I want to that I want to kind of chat a little bit about, because I really like your perspective on on this. And I think you have you know, you have a um ah very a very lived experience with it.
00:07:20
Speaker
um The idea of these online communities and TikTok, I think, is such a perfect example of it. um Where you do, you know, for me, I was too depressed to lie at the time.
00:07:31
Speaker
You know what I mean? and I was just like, it was a lifeline. It was like, please, someone, am I alive? Do I exist? Like, please, you know? um But TikTok is such a strange little beast in that it is very disarming and it is very personal. And yet, because of that, there's so much more room for potential coercion and potential manipulation.
00:07:51
Speaker
um yeah And I'm curious about your experience sort of building your community on TikTok and and what has that been like for you?
00:08:01
Speaker
um Okay, well, at first I was posting quite different content than I post now because I was kind of just figuring it out. Right? i was It was much more like my like little thoughts that popped into my head or like specifically i was dating then when I first started two years ago or whatever. And I was so... It was like, look how horrible these dates are going.
00:08:23
Speaker
And like, ah look at me, watch me slowly hate straight men more and more and more. And... and So I was posting a lot of that and I was getting a lot of hate, like yeah just like honestly death threats in my messages and like people really shitting on me, like in my comments, which was like kind of depressing, but also kind of like, I feel like I have a way thicker skin now. sure Like I, ah you know, like I'm just like, say whatever you want.
00:08:55
Speaker
yeah And I, it like, can't, you can't touch me. Like I don't care at all. yeah And um so that's kind of good. But also i kind of it that gets exhausting. And it's so negative, which is kind of hilarious because it's negative.
00:09:12
Speaker
And so then I was like, OK, what I'm actually truly interested in is like weird, like creepy stories and true crime and, you know, like pop culture stories that are like shocking and weird and And that's like, that's what I, that's why I started on TikTok because I wanted to do that. I wanted to have like a podcast that wasn't a podcast and to dive into those things. But then like just couldn't get it going for some reason.
Constructive Anger and Relationship Pressures
00:09:39
Speaker
It was just too much work or something. So, but then once I got exhausted by the negative stuff,
00:09:44
Speaker
comments and stuff and just that I just didn't want to focus on men anymore. I was just like, I don't want my whole thing on TikTok to be about men. Yes. And so then I started making content that is still quite negative.
00:10:02
Speaker
ah sir But fascinating to me. Like, yeah truly fascinating. Like, when I do my research into these things, I'm like, it take I spend hours and hours and I go down, you know, deep rabbit holes and, like, get freaked out and sometimes have to, like, turn my phone off and, like, have to go to bed. like But it's so...
00:10:21
Speaker
but it's so interesting to me. So the community that I had at first is a little bit different from the community that I have now. That's like hugely true crime people. And like, yeah.
00:10:34
Speaker
a Yeah. One of the things that I have found so fascinating about, the TikTok community has been the um the sort of potential spread of connection.
00:10:45
Speaker
You know, like I mentioned, you know, like I've I've I've connected with people like on the other side of the ah of the world and it it sort of baffles me, you know, um but it does give me a lot of hope. it's It's something that I really appreciate about that app is that you can very quickly build these connections with people that you wouldn't anywhere else.
00:11:06
Speaker
You know? Yes. I also really appreciate, uh, yeah I wouldn't call your new content necessarily focusing on the negative, but it's like, it's not, you're not doing that. Like it's something I've, I've been thinking a lot about and it's something I tried to do with the show is this idea of like you being aware of problems.
00:11:27
Speaker
is good and yeah amplifying those problems through complaint doesn't actually really necessarily help anybody now that doesn't mean like just stiff upper her lip and go about business and ignore it what it means is like what are you going to do about it and i don't find complaining to be actually that helpful you know like like i think it's good to like have one bitch session you know yeah like it's it yeah this happened this sucks Now do something about it.
00:11:54
Speaker
Or yeah shut the fuck up. You know, like... 100%. It starts to get like rage baiting. yeah exactly know Exactly. Where it's like people are just following you to like get mad at you.
00:12:05
Speaker
And that is not the type of community... I want anywhere. Well, and it's like a, cause it's like a type of stasis, right? Like when you're just in complain mode, you don't actually have to do anything. You're in a cocoon, right? You're like, I'm safe. yeah I'm stagnant. I'm still, but I get to pretend like I'm doing something because anger is a really motivating emotion.
00:12:24
Speaker
It makes me feel like I'm moving, you know, because if you put anger to good use, it gets you rolling. Right. it But if you're just completely, you're, if you're just cycling over and over again, it feels like you've done something when really it's like, no, you just sat on your ass and yelled at a stranger yeah for nothing.
00:12:39
Speaker
yeah I know, I know. And then it makes like, i I didn't want to be talking exclusively about men and dating and stuff because I thought I don't want to be stuck in. I don't want to be in that mindset forever.
00:12:53
Speaker
i'd like to move. You know, I don't want that to be like my identity or like to like perpetuate the problem in my own head. Yeah. And so, you know, like I just thought, oh, I i need to just get away from that, even though i I'm still not dating.
00:13:08
Speaker
I'm, I've, you know, I've taken a very solid break. That's a huge part of what TikTok was for me though. Like, yeah so, okay. So it's not just about my my content, obviously it's the stuff that I'm consuming on TikTok too, obviously. And so much of that content at first was like, okay.
00:13:24
Speaker
When I first got on TikTok, it was like I had my partner died in 2020 and I had just it was like I was going through the grief and going through all this stuff and was trying to find some way to express my rage and, you know, grief and whatever.
00:13:39
Speaker
And TikTok came about and I found so many like grief creators and like then this like part of TikTok that was like let's decenter men let's you know you don't have to be dating let's you know just being single and being childless and all these things that I am and that I feel like I think like I'm okay with them, but it felt like other people weren't okay with it.
00:14:06
Speaker
yeah So to see these women talking
Male Loneliness and Societal Contributions
00:14:09
Speaker
about it, like, yeah, I'm single and childless, like, cool, who cares? And talking about the benefits of that and whatever, it was like, i felt like all of a sudden i was like, oh my God, I don't have... which is crazy that I never thought this before, but I was just like, I can't, I don't have to be dating.
00:14:26
Speaker
yeah I don't have to go out and try to like find a new partner. Like that's crazy. And so it was just really empowering and that way. Right. And, um, to yeah, look, find that little community of people that were,
00:14:40
Speaker
you know, feeling the same way and and people, especially there's so many people talking about dating after death, after you lose your partner and stuff, which is such a tiny, and especially young people, right? Because there's obviously lots of, you know, widows that are much older than me, right? So finding that little community was really like, honestly, just huge. it was huge.
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah. It's, you know, it's interesting. it's something I've been talking about with my my therapist a lot recently is this idea of like, You know, when you when you respect yourself unconditionally, right? You know, we talk, often you see online, you stuff about like unconditional love.
00:15:21
Speaker
But it's more to me about unconditional respect. and And that's the differentiation. ah What I'm trying to unpack lately is this idea of like the differentiation between good and nice, you know, being a good person versus a nice person.
00:15:34
Speaker
And this all links into this idea of like being a nice partner is somebody who like rolls over and says, yes, you know, absolutely. What would you like? Well, you know,
00:15:44
Speaker
And being a good partner is is being comfortable saying no and being comfortable being like, no, this is this is what I want. And and, you know, um sometimes those negotiations actually don't have to happen.
00:15:57
Speaker
You know, you often see things about partner relationships being like, you know, obviously you have to make concessions, you have have to find balance. And where I'm going lately is like there's no such thing as balance.
00:16:09
Speaker
And so like you can get on board with who I am now like like Go have a good life somewhere else. You know? Yeah. Right? Yeah, because it's like for for like romantic relationships, like we actually really don't need them.
00:16:22
Speaker
yeah They're not a necessity. Like the way we've talked about them in our culture and like ah it's we're so obsessed with finding the one and bullshit like that. like It's because they're a necessity for men.
00:16:35
Speaker
is the thing 100 statistically statistically single women live longer than married women and happier and happier and statistically single men live shorter lives than married men so it it is a necessity for for the baby men, you know? Yes. And you can see now as the numbers are going, like how many women are single and how many men are single. You can, if you look look, look what's happening, how fucking angry men are, you know, like it's, you can see it happening. It's wild. because And especially because, you know, uh,
00:17:09
Speaker
they were raised to not know how to build intimate relationships with anyone other than the one person that they possess. Right. You know, absolutely they they get to own a woman and they get to do what they want and they have no idea how to be intimate with anyone else in the world, you know? And so this idea of like the, the male loneliness epidemic, I, you know, I, it's very real. And I do like, I, I have a, a perception of it that I think,
00:17:35
Speaker
carries more empathy than I think sometimes they deserve. ah but But a lot of it is um of their own making. you know like I mean, I shouldn't say you know men didn't create the system or how do I put it?
00:17:52
Speaker
Some men created the system and then we've perpetuated it, right? So it's like, you know, I'm spinning myself around, but it's this thing of like, who do you blame? And I think that's what it really, that's what it circles back to is this idea of like, when we're pointing fingers at at people, it's like, well, we're we're all participating in this.
00:18:07
Speaker
We're all playing a part in this in this system. We're all contributing in some way. And so rather than saying this person's bad, this person's good, why don't we say this system sucks, what am I gonna do about
Self-Discovery and Radical Exclusion
00:18:18
Speaker
it?
00:18:18
Speaker
You know, and like it's not going to change everything, but like i that nobody can. So why don't we just try to change our piece of it? You know? Yeah. Well, I feel like people just take it so personally. and yeah Right. and it's like you can't be taking it personally. Like it's just so much bigger than you.
00:18:37
Speaker
yeah And once somebody takes something personally, then they they don't care. They don't want to learn. Yeah. they don't care anymore. They're just mad. And then that's when people go over to the other side and they get like radicalized and like they, you know, if they weren't misogynist before, they are now. Like, yeah you know, so it's really It's that terminology, right? It's the terminology. where If somebody gets, ah you know, ah um ah activated by a term like whiteness or white supremacy or gets activated by, you know, ah ah um why can't I think of the word? ah
00:19:09
Speaker
Not misandry. Blah. Misogyny? Misogyny. Oh my God. oh Thank you. Right. I was like, why can't I think of the, you know, yeah typical misogynist can't think of, you know, but, yeah but it's like, it's like if you are unable to engage with those, with those concepts,
00:19:26
Speaker
you know, philosophically, which is what these discussions are about. It's not saying you specific person our are a misogynist. It's saying yeah you participate in a misogynistic system, you know? Yes. And if, yes if you know, when you when I see people take those things personally, it's like, oh, you're telling on yourself, you know? like yeah right Like, it's all yeah all the all the talking heads getting mad about being called Nazis. And it's like, well, it's because you're a fucking Nazi, you know? Right.
00:19:53
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like a lot of what's happening now is that we are like tired of trying to explain it. We're tired of like handholding, like, see, here's why, here's what you should do instead. Here's, you know what i mean? It's like, there are so many resources.
00:20:12
Speaker
There are so many people talking. There's so many opinions. You can go and discover these things for yourselves and, It's like, I don't want to be teaching you. Yeah. but I don't want to be teaching you. I'm tired.
00:20:25
Speaker
I think that that's a good thing, though. I think that that is the phase we need to be in because that's the action phase. Like, like teaching others is the talking phase and everybody's bored of with the talking phase. You know, like like nothing happens there. Like, I don't care what your favorite color is, you know, like um um nobody likes the talking. It's teal.
00:20:44
Speaker
Mine's blue, so close, you know? Pretty close. all Right, right? um ah Generic blue. um No, but but it's like it's like we need the action phase, right?
00:20:55
Speaker
and And one thing that I've been seeing coming over the years that I used to kind of joke about, but now I'm like, I actually think this is the next wave I want to be sort of pushing for myself, right?
00:21:07
Speaker
and And it's this idea of like radical exclusion. You know, for the last like 10 years, there was this push for like safe spaces and inclusive inclusive behavior. How do we bring people in? How do we get people together?
00:21:18
Speaker
And where I'm moving towards more now is like, do your own fucking learning. You know, I've put in years of my life to learn about myself. I've dedicated myself to therapy. I've dedicated myself to self-development.
00:21:32
Speaker
I'm not a therapist. I am not your therapist. So I will not fucking teach you. Right. So instead it's about this like radical exclusion of like, I'm only going to be around people who have put in the fucking work and we collectively are going to work together and we're going to do something together. It's, it's not about like yeah self-isolation. It's about like, no, who's in my system has done the fucking work and I don't have time for anybody who hasn't yet.
00:21:57
Speaker
I could not agree with you more. Yeah. My eyes are rolling back into my head. Yeah. um yeah um Yeah. Yeah. One trillion percent. I agree. Because it's exhausting. And you're like, you know, I too, I've been in like therapy since I was like 12.
00:22:12
Speaker
twelve Like, and cause I wanted to go. My parents weren't like your mental. I mean, I was mental, but like I wanted to go and I've continually wanted to go because I'm curious about myself. I'm curious why I do certain things and how come this didn't work and how come that whatever.
00:22:26
Speaker
And I've always encouraged people to go to counseling and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, It's not like some crazy thing happened to me to make me do that. I was just sad and curious and, you know, and isn't that everybody? So what the fuck are these people doing instead?
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah. Just yeah like playing video games. Like what is, you know, it's not like you've got time to do both. I go to therapy and play video games, you know? Yeah, exactly. I mean, I guess the thing is that it's I definitely have had the privilege of like having access to therapy for sure.
00:22:59
Speaker
yeah But like, and like being part of a family that like, isn't like, that's for psychos or you know what I mean? Like not being accepting of that. But, you know, it's like it comes to a point where you're like in your 40s and and you still haven't even gone to a therapy session once. Yeah.
00:23:18
Speaker
Like you still are, you know, just believing what you believe. And that's the end of it. Not even listening to other. You know what I mean? Like, It's wild. Yeah.
00:23:30
Speaker
Yeah. And sad. Yeah. And I think it is really important. I think you you touched on something, too. It's like, it you know, yeah there's obviously systems of of access access and there's obviously a lot, you know, like I'm speaking from a, you know, cis white male perspective. And so obviously I've had a lot of access to things that not everybody does.
00:23:49
Speaker
And so when I when I conceptualize this, it's not like. you have to have gone to amount of hours of therapy so much as like, what have you done to try and learn about yourself? And what have you done to learn about like, what do you, what kind of a world do you want?
00:24:01
Speaker
You know, and yeah and how do you hold yourself in that world? Right? Like, yeah, that's the stuff I'm really interested in you know? Um, um, yeah. Cause I just find it's a lack of curiosity, whether it's about the self or about the world, it's just this complete banal, you know, comfort.
00:24:15
Speaker
Right. And it's like, I don't, I, I'm not interested in comfort. I'm interested in like, let's get a little, let's get a little friction in here. You know? Absolutely. And like, and just like, feel like I've dated a lot of like sad boys and like was, I just loved it for a while. Like it was, I'm going to save this person, show them therapy, show them whatever.
00:24:33
Speaker
And it's like, I find it's like the laziness pisses me off now where it's like, you're just So you're just going to lay down and die? You're sad and angry and and you hate your job and you hate your life and and you're just going to lay down and die now? Okay, great. Like, you're not, don't you want to do something about, like, you know, it drives me crazy. It makes me insane. Like, and I just, if you're not going to be inspiring to me, I'm not going to fucking be inspiring to you.
00:25:01
Speaker
and got You know? Yeah. Yeah. That's it right there. And that circles all the way back to this idea of respect of like, of like, you know, it's, it's sexy when you don't have time for people, you know, like, like, like it's, it's like, it's like, no, I'm doing shit, you know, like, like that's hot, you know? And like yeah being always available is not attractive, yeah you know, like, and, and that's a, that's a sign of respect for yourself of like, no, I got shit to do, you know? Um,
00:25:28
Speaker
It's another piece I've been thinking a lot about it, about this idea of like people need to earn my support. You know, like I've been very giving. I've been very understanding because i i spend so much time learning. You know, I'm an inherently empathetic person and then learning about, you know, systemic problems and learning about individual problems and all these things. And so I understand them very easily.
00:25:49
Speaker
And at the same time, too, it's like. Yeah, but it's fucking exhausting. I can't i can't care about everybody's fucking problems, you know? yeah And that that that isn't some failing on mo my part. It's just that I'm some guy, you know? Like, I have a finite nervous system, right? so it's I know. That's hard to give up. I feel like that's addictive in a way because it's like, man, then you get to ignore your problems because you're worrying about somebody else's problems. That's it.
00:26:13
Speaker
Yeah, I know. And that's the difference between good and nice, right? Is this yeah idea of like to be good is to recognize you only have so much to be nice is like, oh, yeah, let me just keep giving. You know, it's like yeah the the fucking giving tree ended up at as as a stump, you know, like, yeah, that's somebody who was nice.
00:26:30
Speaker
Fuck the tree, you know? Yeah, I know. I think yeah that's like, it feels like something that's come with like, yeah, therapy, but also just age. Like, okay. Yeah. I just, I don't have the same mental and emotional resources that I once did. Like, I just, I don't, I don't care as much as you want.
00:26:47
Speaker
Big time. Big time. I protect myself over everybody else now. And I didn't do that before. And that's probably why I had, you know, crazy relationships and like, you know, lots of tragedy and lots of bad things happen. So. Yeah. Yeah.
Fascination with True Crime and Community Responsibilities
00:27:07
Speaker
So, okay, I want to switch gears because um you but them your account these days focuses predominantly on creating you know true crime content.
00:27:19
Speaker
and And the true crime sort of market fascinates me. um I've come kind of in and out of it through the years, you know um as I think most people do. It's a lot.
00:27:31
Speaker
to Because it's a lot, and it can go in a lot of lot of different directions. um but i'm curious what drew you in initially? like what what Do you remember sort of like what you what attracted to you to true crime at the beginning and then what has kind of brought you back lately?
00:27:47
Speaker
Um, and well, I mean, I'm, I've always been super into it. Um, when I was a kid, I, we, like, we watched forensic files all look after school all the time and datelines. And, you know, when A&E used to have investigative reports and cold case files and Bill Curtis and all the, like, we, I was obsessed. And then my my best friend's mom would like took a few criminology courses and like talk to us about these criminology courses and we were just like that's exactly me I'm talking about me and my best friend um when I was growing up and she's still my best friend which is cute um but we were just fascinated by just the psychology of it that and and this is still what fascinates me about it that like I don't like the gruesome details yeah and I find that like some some accounts like
00:28:37
Speaker
focus a lot on like the gruesome, just like, you know, I don't, that's not really that interesting to me. It's that there's these people walking around who are capable of these things and we're, we're saying hi to them at the store. yeah and They're, they're buying, you know, coffee from us. They're, you know, just babysitting our children. They're, you know, like,
00:29:02
Speaker
It's crazy. And what's crazy is that you can't tell who they are. yeah And like, I don't know. Like, I just I think it's like a protection thing. I was on this podcast.
00:29:14
Speaker
It was like a radio show, actually, like an Irish radio show recently. And he was like live. And he asked me, why do you think women are so obsessed with true crime? Because it is hugely women. Sure.
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And I was like, ooh, honestly, I feel like it's because we are like trying to figure out a way to protect ourselves. Like how can we learn as much as possible about each case so that this this doesn't happen to us, even though you can't, there's no way you can do that.
00:29:46
Speaker
But I feel like ah a little bit of it is like. Yeah, how how do we stop this from happening to us? That's been something that's always kind of fascinated me with that sort of phenomenon of like women being really into true crime. And I'm not trying to sound judgmental here, but it has always At times it struck me judgmental of this way of like being like, well, I'm basically going to research these stories because then I get to judge the victims of and basically say like they did something wrong, but don't worry, I'll do it right. If I was in that situation, you know what I mean? Yeah. Right. Right. Smart it.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, right? when When you're spot on, it's like you have no idea what's going to happen. If you've never been in a situation like that before, you don't know how you're going to react. And your body is going to react differently from how your brain is. If you haven't done any kind of training to like keep yourself centered, then you're going to go into primal instinct. And yeah the vast majority of people these days, their instincts are to freeze or to fawn.
00:30:44
Speaker
but you know It's yeah not to fight and get big and get tough. It's to go, oh, fuck, brain just... my brain just stepped out the back door and now my body's still here. Right. So, yeah you know, I found that, by the way, that is they they only came up with fawning in like the 2000s because they weren't studying women's reactions before then.
00:31:06
Speaker
And because we're socialized to be, you know, nice and and be little and stay calm and, you know, then they'll go away maybe. Right. That's why that has come in there. And now we're so aware of it. Right. Like.
00:31:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But it is. And it is that thing of like, you know, it's the hyper vigilance. Right. Because, you know, the and I go I go so back and forth because, you know, you go you go to the the classic stories, you know, and it's like, oh, well, he was such a nice man. You know, he was so quiet. And it's like, to me, that's a failing of the community. And this this is this is why I wanted to talk to you a little bit about this is that it's like, you know, know,
00:31:42
Speaker
you think about the neighbors of Jeffrey Dahmer who were smelling that apartment for years, you know, and it's like, I call bullshit. Like, I call bullshit that you couldn't have known, you know?
00:31:56
Speaker
Like, like, if you just hadn't been so fucking... detached from your community and detached from your environment, how could you not know something was happening?
00:32:07
Speaker
You know? Right. I think people so desperately don't want to believe bad things about people. Like even like all the like, deep like every single date line that I watch is like the the the family members are like, he couldn't have done this. There's no way. He walked my kid to school every day. he you know, he was so nice. He had cup of coffee for me every morning or something. It's like,
00:32:27
Speaker
No, like that's what is horrifying about life and about the world is that you don't know anybody. yeah Like, even if they're not a murderer, you don't know the intricacies of their world.
00:32:40
Speaker
And that alone horrible. like mind blowing, you know? So like but to take it like to the way furthest level that, oh my God, my neighbors, like he's, ah he's kind of weird. He kind of gives me the crease.
00:32:55
Speaker
No, he's actually cutting up and eating bodies that, you know, like yeah I feel like maybe our brains wouldn't allow us to like, you know, even touch that. and Interesting. Yeah, no, i you're you you have a much more nuanced perspective on it than I do. I'm just like, God damn it, knock on his door. yeah but but Everything okay in there? Jeff, Jeff, you know?
00:33:20
Speaker
you know You know, it's funny. and it It gets me thinking about like sometimes there's weird smells in my apartment that I don't go check it out. bro Like what the fuck am I even talking about? You know? Yeah. Well, I always think like because i'm um I'm so in this world all the time, like sometimes I have to take breaks from it because I'm just like, oh, my God. it Every time I go for a walk or something, I'm thinking, oh, this is the time that, you know.
00:33:45
Speaker
And um I was ah watching this TikTok the other day about, Do you know that case, the Idaho Four in in Idaho, obviously? The guy...
00:33:58
Speaker
yeah The Idaho Four in Indiana. um that There were like four college students that were murdered by this, I mean, most likely this guy that's going on trial in August, Brian Kohlberger. was like at a house yeah around Christmas time, right?
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah, a college house. Yes. Yeah. 2022. Yes. And um there's like this controversy because the room roommates didn't call the police until the next day. Right. Even though one of them saw him in the house.
00:34:23
Speaker
And what's coming out now is that she was a true crime person. fan can't really say you' a fan. I feel like that's such a gross, you know, but interested in true crime. And so she, the other roommate was um likely trying to talk her down. Like it wasn't a guy in the house. Like you just watched too much true crime, you know, like, and then they didn't realize for a long time. Right. So it's feel like, you yeah, you can be like, it am I thinking They're like literally in a murder scene and they they're literally in a murder scene thinking, no, I just watched too much true crime. Yeah.
00:35:00
Speaker
And and like I think that often like is that what's happening to me now? Like, yeah, yeah you know, that's a really wild case, especially because the guy is handsome.
00:35:11
Speaker
e And any case where the but guy is handsome is especially weird to me because of how much privilege beautiful people have in the world. yeah You would think that people who are murderers yeah are like, you know, some kind of like ogre in, you know, in the world. And right. So it's like, I just find those ones especially like wild. And then the attention that they get.
00:35:35
Speaker
The public loves them. Oh, they have to be innocent. Why? Because they're handsome? Because they're pretty. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Oh, my God. So this this really loops into one of the tentpole concepts of the show is this idea of community. and And we're talking around a couple of different communities that I want to get your take on.
00:35:56
Speaker
I'm also watching The Times, so i' I'm trying to try to dive in. Okay. but um at the At his baseline, ah you know the word community is so nebulous. And so to sort of set the base, I always like to ask my guests, what does the word community mean to you personally?
00:36:15
Speaker
I saw this thing the other day that was like, everybody wants a village, but nobody wants to be the villager.
Building Ideal Communities and Respectful Content Creation
00:36:23
Speaker
And I thought it was so I was like, oh, yeah, like, because people want community. They want people around them that they can call upon when they need them. And and they can feel like they, ah you know, are surrounded by like minded people and stuff. Right.
00:36:41
Speaker
ah But then when it actually comes down to it, they don't really want to leave their houses. So it's like you kind of have a community like in theory, but not really. Right. So my type of community is like I really am ah would love and I'm trying to foster a community that's like people that just like are like.
00:37:03
Speaker
let's just watch a movie together or let's just like chill things. Not like, I think we've talked about this before. Like, because when you're an adult, it's like, you feel like you have to make these grand plans.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And then, and that's exhausting. You're exhausted. You work. It's like, you're getting older. You're fucking tired. So just the idea of like, hey, let's go for coffee last minute or or let's talk on the phone for 45 minutes or something. like I love to be able to just chat with people and like actually get deep into what's going on with them. I love when people talk to me about like real feelings. you know like yeah
00:37:47
Speaker
When you're like, hey, how are you doing? Good, good. It's like, I don't, I don't. Bullshit. i Yeah. Like I don't have to have deep conversations all the time. That's exhausting too and impossible. But like, I really, i feel like I get intimate with people really quickly. I feel like what the first time that we met, we were like into the deepest traumas of our lives within like 30 minutes.
00:38:09
Speaker
Oh yeah. We weren't even finished our first coffee. We were in it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. yeah And I love that. I love that. Yeah. Because you can tell, like, when somebody is, like, just open, wide open.
00:38:23
Speaker
Right? It's like, I like that. You can see the mess right away. Yeah. so so So building out from that, the idea of the community, you know, the the the the true crime community, to circle this back to that, is powerful.
00:38:37
Speaker
You know, you've alluded to it it a few times. I have my own reservations about it. um You know, when I heard a podcast, ah like a live podcast of of of a show, they were doing a live show, and the whole audience cheered at the name of Eileen Wuornos. I was like, okay, this is...
00:38:53
Speaker
Not the look i want to be a part of, you know, um but but I'm curious what your experience with with the sort of the people, the community has been within that realm, you know, because there's there's sort of the there's the umbrella perspective and then there's the actual like in it.
00:39:09
Speaker
and And I'm curious about, you know, yeah how have you built the community that you have within that realm?
00:39:16
Speaker
Hmm. I mean, i get messages sometimes from like family members of people that I've done videos about or friends or coworkers.
00:39:27
Speaker
I've had people reach out that like want me to. look into like a murdered family member, things like that. Like these things that don't really have, like, I don't have the resources to do that. Like that's not really, you know, but, but like, um, I feel like I try to be really careful with it because you can, there's so much content out there that's like disrespectful of victims and like talks, you know, too much about how handsome he was or some shit like that. You know what i mean? Like,
00:40:02
Speaker
So I don't know. I feel like people are really into it. Like they're really, they go crazy over it. And I don't know if it's necessarily for the same reasons that I get really into it but there's a lot of discussions happening. like and And I just...
00:40:21
Speaker
people when when I like start chatting with somebody who knows as much about something as I do it's just fascinating it's just like it's just fascinating to me but I'm not like I'll respond to comments and stuff depending on what what they are. But i mean, some people are rude, but mostly mostly people are, yeah, just have little things to add or whatever, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. um It's funny you should mention the the the sort of the the the crazy.
00:40:54
Speaker
I just read a book that I actually, I think you should you should read. It's called Penance by Eliza Clark, I think is the name of the author. um And it's boat it's about, a it's a there's a but there's a murder,
00:41:05
Speaker
It's girl who's murdered by her her classmates, and this reporter is trying to sort of figure out, you know, the the story behind it. And it turns out one of the murderers was, like, really into true crime, and another one was really into... She was, like, on Tumblr.
00:41:19
Speaker
ah She was, like, a fan of serial killers, these like these like these, like, school shooters, and there was, like, a whole subculture of, like, people who were really into school shooters, you know, and stuff like that. And it, like, really opened my eyes that there's there's all these...
00:41:33
Speaker
subcultures within subcultures, you know, and you can go really down to the deep end, you know? Yeah. um And I'm curious your take on this sort of like there's there's this there's this joking question on ah on a show I really like that where they're always like, you know, why true crime now? Right. You know, um and and historically, true crime as an industry has been around for centuries, you know, like that the concept of of talking about this is not it's not new.
00:41:58
Speaker
um and And they actually, there was really interesting episode I listened to that talked about how there you can kind of chart the rise and fall of fascist movements on when true crime gets popular.
00:42:11
Speaker
True crime precedes rises in fascism. wow And the theory is that it it lays the groundwork for normalizing discussing atrocities.
00:42:22
Speaker
and wow getting comfortable with with with ah witnessing and and um dehumanizing ah pain and misery and suffering, you know? Wow. um And then we're seeing... it makes sense why it's huge. Huge right now. Huge. this is So this is my curiosity of like, have you sort of been picking up on any kind of correlations along those lines or or how have you been seeing like you know you talked about the people who are commenting and who are engaging like like what's the sort of temperature you're seeing from the people who engage with this kind of content
00:42:56
Speaker
I mean, honestly, i feel like it's mostly like scared women we that I hear from. Scared women that are like like diving deep into it for the reasons.
00:43:06
Speaker
I mean, that's the thing is that I don't really know, right? sure I'm not like, I'm not having deep conversations with any of people, right? It's just comments. Yeah. You know, quick little comments and things. Sometimes people will message me and just give me some more details or things like that. But it's not like how people feel about it.
00:43:24
Speaker
Yeah. really, you know? So I don't really know, but that makes sense. What you said, like, I'd never heard that before. And that, that really does make sense. Cause yeah, it is huge right now, which is wild.
00:43:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah I mean, I'm trying like, i know like most of what I'm posting is about true crime, but I'm also like, I am posting about lighter subjects like death.
00:43:49
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:52
Speaker
And like horrible pop culture moments and things. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah. I posted about Milli Vanilli and the horrible story of Milli Vanilli. Yeah. Of this guy that stole a plane and like, you know, crashed the plane. as it Just wild, you know, stories like that. that that BB Cooper? Was that that story? No, that one's wild too. Oh, okay. This was the Sky King. He stole a plane.
00:44:16
Speaker
Oh. from SeaTac. Yes, yes, this is He'd never flown a plane before and he stole it. And then, which was shocking enough, then flew it and did like barrel rolls and all these crazy tricks and stuff. And then, and this was just like his suicide. He just crashed it.
00:44:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But like stories like that, like where it's like, it's not a crime. It's not, an you know, yeah anybody necessarily hurting anybody else, but just like weird, like the psychology of what what's happening with the, you know,
Finding Hope and Building Genuine Friendships
00:44:44
Speaker
Things like that. So, ah yeah, I like to, the true crime gets a lot for me sometimes too. And so I'm like, and it does feel lighter. to talk I'm making one right now about Sylvia Plath, which seems lighter. Very light. Yeah.
00:44:58
Speaker
and Yeah. yeah and And good old Ted Hughes and how good old ted lovely he was to her. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So many things I didn't know. Her affection for ovens.
00:45:10
Speaker
Yes. Oh my God. Yeah. yeah i I love Sylvia Plath is one of my one of my absolute all timers. She's like a Mount Rushmore poet for me. So yeah, um yeah yeah yeah I look forward to that one.
00:45:22
Speaker
Yeah, I look forward to that for you. um Yeah, all this to say, I hope I'm not coming across like I'm bullying you because I adore your content. I'm not trying to say what are you you know you're a problem. i just you know I'm curious about your perspective on it because you're in it, right? you know yeah so Yes.
00:45:37
Speaker
um I think I, again, i think I assume that everyone has good intentions, that that everyone shares my good intentions. And they probably don't.
00:45:49
Speaker
But I still try and I hear from a lot of people that they're surprised at how respectful I am in my videos that I'm not, um you know, being disrespectful of victims or whatever, right? Or showing, you know, talking about um just giving different perspectives and things, right? Yeah.
00:46:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So I do, I try. Yeah.
00:46:16
Speaker
Another one, kind of one of the reoccurring questions is this idea of like, you know, the world's heavy and true crime's heavy and just everything out there is, it's easy to get sucked into the negativity and just feel despondent about everything.
00:46:30
Speaker
Um, and I'm curious in your lighter moments and in the moments where you, you know, kind of look forward to something, I'm curious, what is something that, what's, what's given you hope these days?
00:46:42
Speaker
Oh, well,
00:46:47
Speaker
Honestly, man, it just, yeah, it feels real dark right now. I think, um
00:46:56
Speaker
boy, that's a rough that's a rough question. i Honestly, i feel like I'm deep in escapism right now. I really am. I'm watching a lot of Frasier. Fuck yeah. Yeah. um i'm I'm like considering watching Sopranos for the 11th time.
00:47:11
Speaker
I just finished it. I will say. ah yes Not an uplifting watch. um i I mean, I know you know this. I know you know this, but i I went back to it because it is one of my comfort watches. But as the seasons were going on, I was getting more and more depressed because you know what will this time I was watching it from such a therapy perspective. And I was, a I was so blown away by how advanced the psychology in the writing was yeah for the time it was being written.
00:47:38
Speaker
But B, I was just like, oh, Tony is a piece of shit. And I don't want to be around him. And watching him get worse and worse and worse till like the last season when he's just like full blown narcissist shithead. And I'm just like, oh, you I wish you died when you got shot.
00:47:56
Speaker
Like, i wish I wish Junior had fucked, you know, like. like Yeah. I know. It's a rough watch now. you know It's weird to watch it over the years because it's like I've grown. Right. And and at at some point I would have dated Tony or Christopher.
00:48:13
Speaker
yeah You know. Yeah. Yeah. And now I'm like I can see like oh I get that now. yeah Oh, yeah. Last time, ah not not this time, but the time before i was watching it and every every season I was like, Tony's fucking hot.
00:48:26
Speaker
like him I don was like, oh, man, I want a Tony, you know? I know. It's ridiculous. Even Christopher, he's not like a handsome and he's an idiot. and yeah like But it's just like there's this hotness about these dangerous men. Like, it's just so stupid. yeah It's like,
00:48:42
Speaker
ah almost like animalistic, right? Where you're like, I know, my I know i know better than this. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That sweaty, hairy man. Particulous. Right? But I mean, that's something that gives you, that that could give you a hope. that's That's one right there, you know? No longer being attracted to Christopher Maltesante.
00:49:00
Speaker
Oh, definitely. Yeah, definitely. I mean, okay. So I started this little group that you know about because you're in it. the goth It's the Gooth group. It's the Goths that need to get out of the house.
00:49:12
Speaker
and I love it. That gives me a little bit of hope because it's fun things to do with other people and like building a in real life community yeah and getting to hang out with people that I don't normally hang out with and kind of just breaking up the monotony and doing some like experiencing some different things, you know, like because I feel like you get into a pattern of like the things that you do.
00:49:37
Speaker
Yeah. And then so to break that up a little bit is hope feels hopeful to me. I love that. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I'm not a goth. I'm a goof, you know? And it's just like, it's great. It's great. I love that group, but I do love that it's like, it's not just like the same thing. It's like, we're going to try this and we're going to here and we're going see that we're going to, you know, like, I think that's fabulous. And I think everybody should be a part of a goof group. I think, you know? Yeah, it's...
00:50:00
Speaker
yeah
00:50:03
Speaker
um ah there's There's some puns in there, I'm sure. But um ah to wrap things up, you know, the the central question of the show has always been about friendship. and And again, sort of set the baseline from your perspective, what does it mean to be a friend to you?
00:50:24
Speaker
yeah I mean, you what you said in the beginning is how I feel that that to just be a yes man all the time is not helpful. That's not that's not a good friend. Right. Somebody that will tell you that you've got shit on your face like that, you know, like like literally and figuratively. Tell me if I have a booger. I swear to God. Yes. You don't. You're not my friend.
00:50:47
Speaker
I think honestly, people who don't are really weird. Yes. Like there's something really weird about people who don't tell people like, why? like who cares? I guess they don't want to witness the embarrassment. I don't know. But and um yeah, I feel like people who are the people who check in,
00:51:08
Speaker
People who tell you the truth and um i mean, obviously people that are there when you need them, but people can't be there for you when you need them all the time. People have their own shit going on. Right. But I think just admit telling you that, talking about that, right. Like ah that's the type of person that I like for sure.
00:51:30
Speaker
yeah ah Yeah, it is that thing too of like, yeah, don't don't don't show up if you can't, you know? Yes, exactly. and But on the other side of it is like, don't wait for your friends to read your mind, right? like Like being a friend, you know, having good friends is being a good friend and to be a good friend is to ask, you know? yeah Get comfortable with asking, right?
00:51:50
Speaker
Absolutely. Which, which turns you know, terrifying for me. I don't know if it is for anybody else, but I know for me that's the scariest fucking thing in the world is to ask for something, you know? Good Lord. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God, yeah. A lot of people struggle with that for sure.
00:52:04
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I feel like, yeah, I think it's really important too to, like, have... multiple people, multiple different types of people who are your friend, right? Like, yeah because if you just have one or two people that you're calling on, like, they can't be everything for you. It's just like when people rely on their partner for everything, you know, like you can't, and you're going to come up short all the time.
00:52:27
Speaker
So yeah, i feel like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. There was ah I think I've talked about it on the show before, but there was this concept ah a friend of mine gave to me right when I was getting sober. It comes from AA and they they call it your six pack.
00:52:39
Speaker
ah when you're you know Because you can't rely just on your sponsor, right? Like that's just one person. And so what you do is you get together a six pack of people. ah So if you're ever in crisis, you have a variety of people you can reach out to, right? you know but um Now that's obviously you know from from from one utilitarian perspective. But I think that you can expand that into like that's kind of...
00:53:01
Speaker
That's how I've been trying to build my networks is like, who do I want in my, in my you know, in my six pack kind of thing. Yeah. um So that, yeah, like you say, so I'm not just relying on any one person or, you know.
00:53:12
Speaker
um Yes. and they're And they're not just relying on me too, right? Because it's like, you know, I got my shit, right? Yes. And especially the types of people that we like and and are, yes you know, drawn to are depressive sad people that have problems right and so like hopefully they're taking care of themselves and you know but you're go they're gonna be up and down and so you gotta have multiple hopefully you'll catch one of them on and up literally literally I mean god half of our texts are like how are you oh I want to die how are you well but you know right you know it's great another day but yeah still depressed yep yes yes
00:53:51
Speaker
yes Um, well, you know, so I've watched at the time we I know we got to wrap up here quickly. So so ah we could just jump into the kind of the wrap up stuff. But but before I ask my very last question, I just i really do want to take a moment and just say, like, that you know, thank you very much for taking the time to chat with me. But also just like I absolutely adore you.
00:54:10
Speaker
I'm so grateful that we are friends that we have met, ah that I just have you in my life. I think you're incredible. I think the work you're doing is so inspiring and so much fun. And um Yeah, I just I think everybody should be following you because you make ah amazing stuff.
00:54:27
Speaker
Oh, my God. Thank you so much. I appreciate you so much, too. What a while. Like when people ask me when I was so devastated, like when TikTok was going away, they're like, why are you so devastated? i was like, you don't understand. Like the people I was like, the people I've met on TikTok. And I thought there's really only one.
00:54:44
Speaker
really only one and I love him so much. Like how it's a rarity. Yeah, it is. it It's a rarity to like meet somebody online and like actually really, really love them. Like, yeah. So thank you. Thank you for having me and thank you for being my friend. Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:01
Speaker
Um, that's the new sign off I'm working on. i I was like, is that, is that, I mean, I know that's just ripping off golden girls, but I was like, I can use that as a sign off. Right. You know, don't know. Absolutely. But, um, but the very last question,
00:55:13
Speaker
I always love to leave listeners with like a little actionable thing that they can try out this week. So what is one suggestion that people could try doing this week to be a more effective friend to themselves or to their community?
00:55:27
Speaker
Ooh. Have a fucking party. Yeah. ah Fuck yeah. Have a fucking party. Like I just read this article the other day that was like, we need to party more. We don't party like we used to. And they like people are so lonely and people want to come to your thing.
00:55:45
Speaker
yeah People want to celebrate you, you know, and they want a reason to get together. Be the reason. Like, you know, you don't have to be shy about it. It's fun for you and fun for everyone.
00:55:56
Speaker
Plan a fucking party. And it doesn't have to be fancy. Just pour some chips into a bowl. That's what I do. Fuck yeah. I love that. I love that so much. i and it you know i When you shared that article, i it felt like ah it felt like a new wrinkles in my brain got added you know because it was like it was like, yes, thank you. you know yes and It you know we got me thinking about like, I remember i remember when I ah when moved back here a couple of years ago,
00:56:21
Speaker
And the the it was my first birthday back in town. And I invited a bunch of people, not thinking anybody was going to show up, but like everybody came and it was huge. And it was just like, you know, people from all different walks of life, you know?
00:56:33
Speaker
and and um And then the next couple years, I didn't plan. I didn't invite people. And and and so people didn't come. and and and And it's like, that's on me. That's not, oh, people didn't like me and didn't want to come. It's like, no, I didn't invite them. I was the asshole.
00:56:47
Speaker
You know, so it's like, right? Like, so it's like, don't be the asshole. Invite people to things, you know, get the calls cops called on you. Who cares? Play the music, you know, right? hundred percent. A hundred percent. I feel like, honestly, the like key to like being happy at all is being willing to be embarrassed.
00:57:02
Speaker
And like, you have to like be willing to have two people show up to your party. Yeah. And yeah you're still going to have such a good time, you know? like And just like, yeah, putting yourself out there is just so huge,
Episode Conclusion and Gratitude
00:57:17
Speaker
right? And then giving people the excuse to meet new people. Like, it's just, it's so we forget how important it is because we're so used to fucking sitting in our holes with our heating pads, yeah which I love too. which But...
00:57:29
Speaker
Yeah. but You're the one. Yeah. I mean, speaking of heating beds. know. You're the one who convinced me to buy an electric blanket and it changed my life. and I know. didn't go outside for a month because I was like, why? You are welcome. I hope I'm in your will.
00:57:43
Speaker
You'll get the electric blanket. Yes. That I honestly probably died under because it's short circuited. Oh my God. It's the best, isn't it? It's so comforting. I feel like it's like you're in the womb.
00:57:54
Speaker
It's unbelievable. Literally. Yeah. Especially because I get a little sweaty in there. So it's like moist, you know?
00:58:02
Speaker
oh Lonely people tips. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah. ah Go under your electric blanket with a pillow and it'll feel like a dead body beside you. You know Yes. It'll feel like somebody loves you
00:58:17
Speaker
i Oh my God. Mel, I fucking love you so much. Thank you. This has been just just such a treat. ah and Thank you. i As I say, I'm still experimenting with sign-offs. He's seven years on and I still don't know how to how to end an episode. But thank you for being my friend.
00:58:34
Speaker
How about this? Bye! that's that's what That's how I do it. Okay, thanks. Bye! Bye!
00:58:41
Speaker
a
00:58:48
Speaker
a
00:58:53
Speaker
And that's it. Thank you one more time to Mel for coming on the show and just for being so open and insightful. I so just deeply appreciate her, not only her vulnerability and her charm, but just being the incredible friend that she is both, you know, online and IRL.
00:59:10
Speaker
Yeah. Do people still say that? I don't know. I don't think I've ever actually said that out loud before, but here we are. Anyway, be sure to follow Mel's work online. She's doing some incredible, truly, truly fascinating deep dives, and you're not going to want to miss them. So be sure to give her a follow in the links in the show notes.
00:59:29
Speaker
And if you are loving these conversations, want to make sure you know you never miss an episode or any of the updates, be sure to subscribe as well as subscribe to the Friendless Substack.
00:59:41
Speaker
I know I've been talking about it. I know it hasn't relaunched. I have been admittedly delayed. i keep on putting it off, but I am not putting it off for any longer. ah The new one will be out soon.
00:59:54
Speaker
ah I'm really hesitant to give a deadline, but I'm going to say by the end of the week, yeah there's going to be a new Substack update. So if you want to follow along, get um updates not only on the latest episodes, but as well as exclusive content, exclusive writing, behind the scenes stuff, all kinds of fun things ah for all for free.
01:00:14
Speaker
Sign up through the link in the show notes. And hey, as always, if you like what you heard, why not share the episode with a friend and give it a five-star review wherever you listened.
01:00:24
Speaker
It's completely free for you and honestly makes a world of difference for me. So please, please and thank you. But that's it for me. So let's wrap things up here. Thank you so much for listening. And I hope to catch you back here next week. But I'm not going to worry about that right now. And neither should you because that is then and this is now.
01:00:41
Speaker
So for now, I'll just say, Go throw a party.
01:00:47
Speaker
Be kind to yourself and always remember, I love you. Fun and safety, sweet peas.