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Building Online Communities (with special guest Tim Riel)
78 Plays2 months ago
In this very special episode of "Friendless," host James Avramenko sits down with Tim Riel (@nerdincorrect) to explore the intricate world of community building, the realities of adult friendships, and the importance of small, thoughtful gestures in maintaining connections. Tim, a dedicated board gamer, comedian, and host of Codenames Live, opens up about managing his busy schedule filled with various projects.
They discuss the myriad challenges and joys of friendship, particularly how adult responsibilities and past experiences shape current relationships.
Listeners will gain insight into the emotional strain of outreach, the importance of community on online platforms, and the profound impact of minor acts of kindness, affectionately termed "pebbling." Tim also emphasizes the reality behind social media connections and the often unrealistic portrayals of friendship in media.
This episode provides a heartfelt discussion on the feelings of loneliness that even the most connected individuals experience, along with actionable advice on supporting friends discreetly and sincerely. As Tim shares his journey, you’ll leave with a greater appreciation for the small, meaningful ways we can lift each other up.
Don't miss this touching and insightful conversation on the complexities of friendship and community.
Nerd Incorrect - https://linktr.ee/nerdincorrect
Codenames LIVE! Main Cast
Brendan McKeigan: http://www.brendanmckeigan.com/
Dani Standring: https://beacons.ai/dani_standring/
Shannon Lahaie: https://www.twitch.tv/shanomen0n/
Jason Hatrick: https://twitter.com/jasonhatrick
Tavis Maplesden: https://twitter.com/TavisMaplesden
Lorenzo Patino: https://www.instagram.com/zopunny
Logan Avery Cooper: https://www.instagram.com/loganaverycooper
Sam Murdock: https://www.twitch.tv/suitedmonkey
Book Link:
Make Me A Mixtape by Jennifer Whiteford - linktr.ee/jenniferwhitefordwrites
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Transcript
Introduction of Podcast & Guest
00:00:08
Speaker
Well, hey there, sweet peas. Welcome back to Friendless. I'm your host, James Avramenko, back once again with a brand new interview. This week, I welcome to the show comedian and host of my favorite online game show, Codenames Live, the one and only Tim Riel. Tim and I discuss pebbling memes as a love language, how Boy Meets World has poisoned our perception of friendship, and how Tim has structured his week to create a dynamic community through his show.
Involvement with Codenames Live
00:00:34
Speaker
all this and so much more but let's get into it so lean back get comfy such a volume at a reasonable level and enjoy my interview with Tim Riel here on friendless
00:00:48
Speaker
So yeah, why don't we start actually kind of at code names? Because that is you know how we cross paths. um Former guest of the show, Brian Knopfling, invited me randomly onto this game show. He's like, hey, you know, I'm supposed to bring someone on who I who i know to be a guest on the show. i Sorry. No, no, that's wrong. He needs to bring somebody he loves in the doors, James.
00:01:09
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I didn't want to speak for him, i but I, but I, I, I trust that that is how he feels about me, if only because that's how I feel about him. So I'm just trying to be, you know, right but, uh, but, uh, but my, I think my, uh, what's it called? My, like my self-conscious voice came into play there. You're right. Yeah. We're going to get into that too. Cause yeah, I think I should probably preface before we get into any of like details and
Friendship Dynamics & Challenges
00:01:32
Speaker
stuff. Um, uh, over the last couple of days I've realized this is my nightmare.
00:01:38
Speaker
Uh, I am, uh, yeah, I am very, uh, I, I came into this and I'm like, this is going to be really uncomfortable for me. Uh, cause it's the first, cause, uh, yeah. Cause it's like sitting down and trying to think about friendship. Uh, I've got a, I've got a, I've got a Rocky history with friendship. And so it's a, uh, I'm terrified. So, uh, yeah, it's going to be fun.
00:02:00
Speaker
I love that. I love that. And i I mean, I don't love that you have a rocky history. I love that you are are are feeling comfortable to to talk about it. Right. And I think this is something that I've really seen over the I mean, I've been doing this almost seven years now. um And and, you know, I have my own piccadillos about about friendship and and in talking to everyone that I have throughout the years, I've really come to recognize that, like,
00:02:29
Speaker
We're so much more, ah we have such more similar experiences than separating experiences and and so many more people feel that than I think are willing to admit um or or or necessarily, maybe they're willing to admit it, but they're never given the space to to talk about it, right? and And I think that that's very much what I'm trying to kind of mold this show into is like, let's talk about how fucking weird it is to like make friends as an adult and be like, I have, i have 30, how old am I now?
Evolution of Codenames Live
00:03:00
Speaker
37 years of fucking friendship trauma, you know, like, will you be my friend and not fuck me up again? You know? Yeah. ah But thank you for being brave because you're such a fabulous host on things that that it's fun to kind of reverse the roles, right? Yeah. But I want to I want to start at something, you know, lighter. We're talking about code names and i'd i'd I'd like to
00:03:25
Speaker
kind of hear a bit of the genesis of the show, you know? um yeah Because because i'd I'd never even heard of it before getting invited onto the show. I'd never played it. Yeah, that's a big issue for us, yeah. But it but it it turns out that there's this huge community behind it. Like, it's it's a really popular game. um And so, yeah, i'm I'm curious if you could tell me a little bit about the formation of the show and what what got you to where you are now.
00:03:51
Speaker
Uh, well, uh, I'm a board gamer and also a comedian. Uh, and so, uh, as you know, as a, as if you, when you are a performer and a comedian, whenever, whenever you show up at a venue and you're like, Oh, I can do this. yeah You're always trying to figure out how, what show can I produce? That's going to be different from other people.
00:04:08
Speaker
And because we were into board games, ah code names was just one of those games that was just really easy to play and really fun to play. And at one point, somebody had told me, who was also into board games? And I was like, oh, we love playing code names. You should come over and play code names. And they were like, I hate code names. oh And we're like, what do you mean you hate code names? And they're like, ah you just sit there silently staring at cards all night. And I'm like,
00:04:34
Speaker
Oh, bro, you are not playing properly. And then when he came over and we played the way we play, he was like, you're right. This is a lot more fun. And then I think like I had a show the next night and I was just like, how do I bring that experience here? And so we've been brainstorming and and trying to figure out how to do a live experience of code names and turn it into a show.
Community Building Strategies
00:04:57
Speaker
And then ah unfortunately, fortunately, ah the world ended.
00:05:03
Speaker
and we all had to stream from home and and we all had to live at home and never leave and ah my buddy Evan said one of the one of my friends Evan ah he was like you can turn that show into something on stream you should you should stream it and And we're not going to get to the full genesis of things because I can talk about code names forever. sure But we eventually turned it into a show. And the original idea was me and four of my comedian friends. We would play every Thursday night. That's the thing. We would set ourselves up because, again, you weren't allowed to leave. You couldn't even go grocery shopping at this point. And so we're just like, every Thursday, we're going to hang out and we're going to play this game.
00:05:52
Speaker
Uh, and then, uh, after the first one, I was like, okay, I like the concept. So let's, I kept trying to mold it into a show and I'm like, okay, let's get to six. And then we can, uh, I can package it and maybe pitch it for, for like a TV pilot or something. We can do something with it. Um, but, uh, but it's a word game. So six episodes, that's probably going to be the top. you know There's no way you can do.
00:06:18
Speaker
and more than six episodes about words and And then not only did we get past six, but it got to the point where other comedian friends were like, oh, I want to be on your code name show. yeah And I was like, well, you can't because it's those four guys and me. It's our thing and you can't have it.
00:06:40
Speaker
and But of course, I was like feeling bad because I'm like, oh, I like those people, too. I'd like to I hope one of my four friends yeah it doesn't want to do it next week so I can bring someone else in.
00:06:50
Speaker
yep ah But then the people watching on stream, the like the people in the chat, they were like, you've got to do this more than once a week. One, because it's fun and two, because there's nothing else going on. We're stuck at home. Please, please entertain us. Yeah. yeah And it was the first time where anything I had been doing, I've been doing comedy for a while, sketch, acting, all that other stuff. And it was the first time where something that I was part of, ah let alone that I created, but something that I was part of was something that people were like, you must give us more.
00:07:19
Speaker
And as an entertainer, it's been what I've wanted my entire life was to make something and have people go, could I have more of the thing you make? And so I got very excited with that. And then I was like, well, this is going to kill two birds with one stone. I'm going to set up a second show on Mondays. ah None of the main cast is going to be on that show, which I think they're happy about, too, because already once a week, they're dedicated to this. I couldn't possibly ask them to dedicate a second day.
00:07:48
Speaker
ah But on the Monday show, I could bring the people that were asking to be on the show and all my other friends. And so I started reaching out to my other friends, say, do you want to do the Monday show? And ah my the other thing is, again, ah when you produce shows, when you've been in this industry long enough, you know that the hardest thing in the world is to book people and have them show up. So I was like, I cannot book four guests. It's not going to happen. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to book two guests.
00:08:17
Speaker
And those two guests are gonna bring their own friends. And what that's gonna do is one, I'm not gonna have to book those other two people. Somebody else is gonna do the legwork for me. Two, both of those people are gonna be more comfortable on screen with each other. ah So we're gonna get more moments out of them. And three, everyone's gonna be scared to cancel.
00:08:39
Speaker
ah Because the person I invited can't cancel now because they've invited somebody. Yeah. And the person they invited doesn't want to disappoint them by canceling. Yeah. And so i in the history of code names, I've had one cancellation and it has been for a paying gig. Like it wasn't because they didn't want to. Yeah.
00:09:01
Speaker
But but that's where so that's where that that started from. It's like you invite somebody you love in a door and want to spend a couple of hours with. yeah And then from there, anybody who dug the show thought it was fun, that we clicked with. We invite them to a secret code names group on Facebook. And we asked them to come back and bring somebody they love in a door. And then we get that chain. And it's just a chain of People's favorite people that that that's the other side of it too that I was thinking I was like, it's such a brilliant kind of like um Organic growth model too because you're yeah and breaking into these new circles who wouldn't have initially heard about it You know, we've reached some really weird places yeah like ah like ah some of my favorite ones like we've had Andy Weir the guy who wrote the Martian and He's been on the show. We got through there. We've had a couple of musicians I like. We've gotten I mean, we've had Tatiana Maslany. So it's like I have an Emmy Award winning Marvel actress. ah She's been on the show. amazing It's it's it's insane. And it all like it goes it goes from like from nothing to something like because that was.
00:10:09
Speaker
Um, my buddy Mark street, who works for the dice tower. He does the preview stuff for board game stuff. He brought Kevin Sussman from the big bang theory and then Kevin, uh, and then Kevin brought, uh, Brendan Heinz, uh, and then Brendan brought Tatiana cause they're married and then Tatiana brought nug.
00:10:28
Speaker
And that's how, that's how we, that's how NUG came. And then the, my favorite thing, and it's the, I mean, it's, it's, it's in the blurb for the Codenamer's group.
Perceptions of Friendship & Media Influence
00:10:39
Speaker
yeah It's, this isn't for like, this is, yes, it'll be a resource for me to be like, Hey, anybody want to come back on the show?
00:10:46
Speaker
But for me, one of the most important things because it's something that I always struggle with. I don't like reaching out to people because I have this whole idea of who the fuck am I? And they like they they I'm wasting their time by even asking for anything. Yeah. Yep. Uh, and so I don't like that situation. Cause it's, I don't like cold calls. Cause if you just go to someone, Hey, can you do my thing? It's like, that's first of all, it's rude. Uh, and second of all, it's like, why just note there, you should, you should have a reason to contact someone other than please do me a favor.
00:11:18
Speaker
Well, and something to, something to offer, right? that That's something I, you know, that's something I learned through the show. It's also something I always teach, you know, i ah in my day job, I teach like, uh, career planning and upskilling and project management, all this, these different things with tech students. And I always tell them like, don't reach out to, you know, somebody on LinkedIn and say, Hey, do something for me. Right. You know, you reach out and say like, Hey, let's connect and here's something you could get out of it. You know, like we even even, even generous people, like you can use.
00:11:48
Speaker
You can use greed for good, you know? There's like a there's like a healthy greed in a way. of like It's reciprocal, you know? ah We can get into the philosophy of selfishness if you want. we had I got a lot of opinions on selfishness. but I think the whole world runs on selfishness. Of course. It's the easiest. People are like, oh, that person's selfless. I'm like, no, yeah, he had a selfish reason for doing that. Always. But yeah, anyway, I don't want to get too bored. We'll get into that. We'll get into that in the friendship stuff, you know? that's Oh, yeah. ah so ah But yeah, but the the whole point of the Codenames group was,
00:12:26
Speaker
If there's somebody in here that you'd like to meet, you're you're interested in, or for whatever reason, that you you want to make some kind of connection. i This is now a place where you can find them, you can connect to them, and you can open with, hey, I'm a big fan of yours. I've also done Tim's Stupid Thing. but You want to talk about Tim's Stupid Thing with me?
00:12:48
Speaker
And then you make that connection where you're just like, wasn't it weird to do code names? Isn't it cool? What ah an interesting show. I had a good time. What did you lose? Did you hit any assassins? And then eventually you build the bond and then you go like, hey, you want to I'll be in San Diego this weekend. Did you want to grab a coffee? That type of thing. um I need to start exploiting this chat thread more. I didn't even realize that was like a back door. You can go into the code namers group and just look at the list of people that are part of the group and then just be like, Oh, this person, I did. This person's really cool. And like, Hey, just reaching out. Uh, I know you don't, you may not know me, but I've done code names and I, if Tim thinks you're cool, then you must be cool.
00:13:35
Speaker
So this actually, this really leads into, you know, one of the one of the core questions of this show. I usually ah have this reverse, but I think this leads really nicely into this question of community, right? And this idea of, of um you know, I always see it as like the friend is the one-on-one, and we'll get deeper into the friends in a minute, but like the community part is is like, how do you build more than one connection, you know? um I've gone through stages in my life where I've had what I felt like was a big community and then I've gone through stages where it's like my community is like the stuffed animals on my bed and like one friend who I call crying every day for two weeks, you know, until they get tired of me, right? um And and um I'm wondering,
00:14:21
Speaker
What kind of effect did your sort of like, your whether it was a desire or your pursuit of or or whatever it was, were you thinking about community building as you were building out this show or did it kind of happen organically?
00:14:35
Speaker
It was more organic because ah i I do not feel I'm a very good community builder. um I think I accidentally found a group of people that dig the same stuff and have the same kind of vibe. ah But I still feel, and this is this is This is it comes to the crux of probably just my personality. I still feel on the outside of that. Like I feel like when I look at the code namers group and I look at the people who play code names and the people that come back on code names, there are people I like and I see them all as being friends with each other. And I'm still like, I would also like to be your friend. But ah but it's cool if you just want to hang out and play this game instead of being my friend.
00:15:19
Speaker
And so, yeah, I feel so I feel like I've built a community that I still don't see myself being part of. Yeah, which is which has got to be wrong. That can't possibly be true. Fundamentally, I didn't want to I didn't want to immediately jump down your throat and say that's bullshit. I wanted to, you know, validate your feelings about it first. yeah ah and then say But that's bullshit. But, you know, yeah, it's my it's always it's always been my biggest issue. It's always been that I always ah I always feel a little bit on the outside. So.
00:15:49
Speaker
I don't know where that's from. I remember, uh, Mike Birbiglia does a, uh, he has ah a stand up special called, uh, sleepwalk with me. This is a, he's made a movie too, but you can, the audio of his one man show called sleepwalk with me. At one point he's like talking to his dad and he's like, uh, uh, I've been feeling like a little.
00:16:11
Speaker
disconnected from everybody a little distance and like and like everybody that I know and love are just a little bit further away. And his dad says, yeah, that's what getting older is. And I was just like, oh man, I hope that's not true. And it it fucking feels so true. It's like,
00:16:30
Speaker
Like I said, for the last couple of days, I've been like really worried about the the podcast in general because the more I think of it, I'm just like, I don't know if I have any friends. And I and i know I do, yeah but I don't...
00:16:45
Speaker
It doesn't feel like it a lot of the time because ah it's a different friendship now. Right.
Adult Friendship Validation
00:16:50
Speaker
Well, the one thing that I find is this idea of like when, you know, when you had friends, whether it was in grade school or university or or even when you're like in your twenties, it's like you, you have these.
00:17:02
Speaker
first of all you have these like set times where you know you're gonna see them pretty much every day right you're in class or you're whatever it is and then you're you're just you have less responsibilities so you're able to socialize in a way that that you know you can you could go out to you know two dollar beer Tuesdays or whatever it was and like not worry about it and now you know as you get older and responsibilities pile up and then families start building and careers start building and all these things. And it's like priority shift, you know? And and to me, ah this is kind of one of the central realizations of the show is that it's like, to me, that doesn't mean
00:17:38
Speaker
it's worse friendships, it's just that friendship changes, right? and And I think it gets harder to, you know, you no longer get the same type of friendship validation that you used to, so you have to look for it in different ways, you know? um which is which is hard it's like where you have to like develop like neuroplasticity right and you have to like well yeah because it's like the the the the reaching out instinct is not there either because its exactly uh if i like if i go on a stretch and i'm feeling lonely it's like uh yeah i have friends i could call but i don't want to bother them
00:18:12
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. Right. and And it's like, but it's like, it's not a bother is the thing, you know, like, but sometimes it is. That's my thing. I'm so worried because it's like, because I don't, I don't want, I, my biggest fear and the reason why I don't call is, is because it's like, Oh, uh, Hey, uh, yeah, I'm feeling lonely. Just want to talk. I just want to do stuff. Uh, and then as soon as that hangs up, they turn to the the wife or the husband or the roommate or the friend and go,
00:18:38
Speaker
this fucking guy drains me you know you know yeah ah yeah you you are tim you are literally speaking my language and uh and and i and i and i want to say um in my experience with that stuff especially over the last i'd say like probably about the last year or so what i've really come to cherish in reframing those thoughts has been like almost like deciding that that's none of my business you know like it's like if it it um you know what to know so like
00:19:11
Speaker
so so it's like this idea that like because to me like and i think we could probably
00:19:18
Speaker
almost people who are neurodivergent inherently come with trauma. It's that more often than not, socially speaking and culturally speaking, people who are neurodivergent have experienced types of internalized, whether it's internalized, externalized, whatever, they've experienced trauma that is then informed how they show up. um and And that develops things like people pleasing, that develops things like hypervigilance, that develops these things of like, oh, I'm going to make sure you're okay long before I ever even check in with myself, right? And
00:19:50
Speaker
and part of my own kind of it feels really cheesy to call it like my healing journey or like, you know, but like just part of part of my redevelopment and part of my kind of rebraining, you know, has been to be like, OK. To my face, someone says happy to talk to you, happy to lend you support. They hang up.
00:20:14
Speaker
from that moment on, A, because I'm ADHD and so I have no object permanence, so they hang up, they don't exist to me anymore, but you know, but also anything past that is no longer my business because they're a fucking adult. And if they can't communicate their needs, that's not my problem, you know, like that's on them to communicate. So if they had a problem with me, they should have said that, you know? um And so like, I can't be, I can't be fixated on, on on um placating their unspoken needs, right? I'm not a mind reader. So like either speak up or get fucked, you know? Yeah, I think my issue and and where that falls apart for me is my issue isn't, did they not communicate their stuff? My issue is ah when are they going to cut ties? ah When are they going to be done? And it's like, I already feel like I don't have any friends. And so, uh,
00:21:09
Speaker
you you You set a task for this this podcast. and And just because it goes right into this. Yeah. ah you you You're like, oh, if you've got anything you want to talk about, friendship questions. Yeah. ah So yeah, my third question ah that I wrote down, and I'm like, hey, if we get to this, I'll ask it. But this is exactly what it is. Spit it.
00:21:31
Speaker
um do you and it sounds like no from you you sound like you have a very healthy mindset but do you maintain bad friendships to pad the numbers oh not a chance not anymore at least yeah not anymore um but i also i'm coming out of like a friendship apocalypse uh from yeah like the end of last year like i basically like It was like a bloodbath. Like i I had maybe like a thousand followers on my, like my just my personal Instagram. And I whittled it down to like 200.
Defining True Friendships
00:22:08
Speaker
And only recently have started sort of letting people back in, you know. um And I recognize that that's even that even that's one step removed, because that's still like internet friends and like, you know, people I went to high school with and haven't spoken to in 20 years and kind of shit like that. But, but
00:22:27
Speaker
The last sort of like big wave of like losing friends was not willing. You know, it wasn't a willing thing. It was like ah I got kind of excised. You know, that's up to different interpretations depending on who you're talking to. But was it a breakup? It was a breakup. right It was a breakup. And then all the friends went with right. you know Yeah. Yeah. She yeah in my breakup too. She got all the friends. Yeah, right, you know, and which which happens, which is like, that's fine. You know, it's just that it's like, it would have been great if they, none of them had said, like, don't worry, we're your friend too, you know, like, and then, and then just never replied back to me. But, um,
00:23:06
Speaker
The thing about all that, what that taught me was that it was like, oh, they were never my friend to begin with. You know, so, so me constantly reaching out and constantly trying to reconnect is me trying to reconnect with a stranger or, or even worse than that, a fantasy as somebody who never existed, you know? Um, so now I'm in a stage where I'm like, no, I've got like,
00:23:30
Speaker
maybe four friends like in town who I like actively see on a regular basis. um And then I've got like a a slightly larger group past that online, you know, distance people and beyond that. um
00:23:47
Speaker
I just don't have the capacity to maintain more connections. So like I'll be friendly with people, um but I'm not gonna put in the effort to to for somebody who isn't reciprocating. you know um and And I think i think that is that that does kind of go hand in hand with this idea of like what friendships used to be versus what friendships are now for me, which is this idea that like it used to be How many friends do I have? What's my what's my body count? you know like what's what you know How many followers? Whatever it is. And now it's like...
00:24:19
Speaker
do I feel safe with this person? And do I feel unquestionably connected to this person? And if there's even like a shred of doubt, I tend to just retreat, you know? And that's a trauma response. And it's not necessarily the healthiest response long-term, but right now that's where I'm at, where I'm like, no, my fucking circle are my fucking people that I yeah i never question, you know? and and And at the same time too, if questions do you come up,
00:24:48
Speaker
they're the kind of people who I feel safe to address it with, you know? Because there's that level of connection where it's like, ooh, this feels off, but I don't think I can actually talk to you about it, which which to me is like, oh, that's because they're not a friend, you know? Like, so like- That doesn't make sense. Right?
00:25:06
Speaker
We need to bring back like I think I think one thing that was lost in like the pandemic or or maybe earlier, I don't know. Maybe it's because of Facebook, who knows? But like we need to bring back the acquaintance, you know, or the like the yeah I'm worried. That's all I've got, James. OK, OK, OK.
00:25:23
Speaker
Um, I mean, that's not a bad thing. That's not a bad thing. You know, it's not right. Like, because these aren't bad people, right? You know, these are no they're great. Everybody in my life's amazing. Exactly. Right. You know, and and that's the other thing I want to be sure I'm not like I'm not painting like anybody who's out of my circle is a monster. You know, it's like no there' they are. But yeah I understand. sure Yeah.
00:25:47
Speaker
But there's like there's colleagues and there's acquaintances. like Not everyone has to be your bestie. And i think I think that's what I'm coming out of is that I used to be like, all my friends are my best friend. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Most of them are actually deeply unwell and actually borderline unsafe and and like should be trusted about as far as you can throw them. And I'm not a very strong person. you know So they're not going far.
00:26:18
Speaker
but But what do you think? I mean, I'm really i'm really fascinated to hear because like I'm not somebody who's like, my way is the right way. you know like This is just sort of from personal experience. And yeah i'm I'm curious to hear a little bit more about your perspective on like what makes you... You know what? Actually, this ties right into this core question of friendship. And I think that's where we should dive into is is let's get to the root of it. of To you,
00:26:43
Speaker
What does it mean to be a friend? you know And so when you're saying, oh, I have acquaintance for a friend, like what would it be to be a friend? i think that I think my biggest issue is I don't think I know, and I don't think I've ever known. and I was ah a military kid, so my dad was in the military, and we moved around a lot. so i've yeah Also, I am a media whore. i I love everything that has to do with entertainment and pop culture.
00:27:12
Speaker
but yeah So while I am leaving everybody I know every four yeah every three to four years to move to a completely different place and start all over again, I'm watching shows like Boy Meets World yeah and and and and and basically every other TV show where these
Forming Authentic Connections
00:27:30
Speaker
are people that have known each other since they were toddlers uh friendships ah there's there's always that person that they've known for the last 25 years and they're only 26 years old uh and and so for like watching all these things where it's like uh these people that have these bonds where it's like it's almost familial uh because of how long they've known each other and how much they've gone through
00:27:54
Speaker
And at no point in my life have I known somebody for more than four years. yeah And so I don't know. I think i think ah there's a lot of people that i are my favorite people and I think are really great friends, but yeah. Like I've known my kids longer than I've known anybody else in my life, which is like a weird thing, right? add Other than my family.
00:28:19
Speaker
So it's like, other than my ex, who arguably I haven't been friends with for a while. So it's like, yeah, so it's like, like my kids are older than any relationship I've maintained. Which is, ah so i I don't know if it's that,
00:28:39
Speaker
I feel like I should have something different. Like I feel like I've missed out. Cause again, and my example for everything is like these, just these TV shows and these movies yeah where you're like, you're watching, you watch the hangover and it's just three guys that have known each other for their whole lives. And it's like, I don't, I don't know if I have that connection with anybody and.
00:28:59
Speaker
Even when even with friends where it felt like we were getting close to them, like Evans, when Evan Abrams is one of my one of my best friends. But even Evan is like we've known each other for a long time. But he's got actual best friends. He's got four or five guys that he's grown up with that he's known from three. So even there, it's like, well, you're not actually a part of that. and So so I don't.
00:29:29
Speaker
I don't know if what a friend is to me matches what I think a friend is supposed to be, because there's like a lot of definitions where it's like, sure and like if I woke up tomorrow and and like said, i like hey, I really need something, or I'm feeling really bad, or let's go do something, or anything like that, there's five or six people that I can call that will drop everything to to hang out with me. So I'm like, yeah.
00:29:54
Speaker
From that definition of things I've got a friend. Yeah, but I don't have anybody in my life who can ah Call me on my bullshit in the way that it's like I knew you before because nobody Nobody's known me before and in any stage of my life. No one has ever known me before so Yeah, I just yeah, so I feel on the outside on a lot of things because of that. Yeah. And so what I'd like is, I don't know, just just a built in person who's like, yeah, and no, you're going to be the. Yeah, let's be roommates. That's a. Yeah, I'll let's talk every day. Let's ah join a fucking baseball league. Let's fucking and.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't have that. So again, its I think is it a grass is always greener thing? Like I have ah incredible friends who are incredible all the time. yep but it But I feel lonely a lot. And so it's, ah so it's this it's yeah, yeah i I think my issue is I don't know what a friend is. I mean, I am so fascinated by like, you really put me in this, in this I always call it the spider web brain of like, you know, you make these beautiful statements that suddenly like fracture my brain. And I think part of it is obviously, obviously part of it is ADHD, but it's like, it's this idea of like,
00:31:19
Speaker
the influence of media on what a friend should be, then creating these like feelings of inadequacy and ah in us. Because we're you know I agree, I was raised on Boy B's World. I always wanted a Sean Hunter, you know what I mean? like like And i never and i'm I'm in the same boat. you know I didn't move around as much, but i i through grade school, i was basically in a new group of friends every year you know like every grade new friends because the last ones were like get this fucking weirdo out of here you know ah he's you know it's grade nine and he's still talking about superboy you know like like get him out you know um and i wonder if
00:32:02
Speaker
You know, ah the reason I like this question is because it is so open-ended. It's a really, it's really like deceitfully simple, right? Like it's, it's and is that the right way of putting it? It looks simple when really it's actually, it can be really complex. And I'm much more interested in like what it feels like for you, you know? And so like, you know, what a friend should be because of fucking,
00:32:29
Speaker
TGIF or because of fucking Disney Channel or because of fucking my girl or some shit that stuff can kind of get fucked. You know what I mean? Because like I'm with you. I'm with you 100%. I eat, sleep, breathe movies, video games, books. Half my communication is quotes.
00:32:49
Speaker
you know you know um um And at the same time, too, I've recognized, actually, an ex once pointed out that like my quoting is sort of like my stimming. um and And they would often actually get really upset when I started quoting because they'd be like, this means you're dysregulated. This means you're actually uncomfortable about something and you're disassociated. So I'm really curious about, yeah, the personal take, the internal take. the like like And whether or not you have it is is one thing, but like what would what could someone do to be a better friend to you or a good friend to you? And from personal, you know like like fuck the movies. you know
00:33:37
Speaker
I think it's and think it's showing it's showing up unannounced. I don't mean like at my door, but like like just like unannounced. is it The best feeling I've gotten in the last couple of years, and ah and it's a couple of times because ah because he's incredible. ah But ah Sam Norton is a friend of mine out of Toronto, comedian. And he he literally is one of those, hey, you i Thought about you today wanted to wanted to check in and say hi and it's a text out of nowhere and it's just like Because I see yeah, I spent a lot of time
00:34:17
Speaker
It comes up a lot on your podcast and in the world, but people, but it's, you and it's usually like, uh, to make yourself feel better when it's like, Hey, don't worry what other people think about you. Cause they don't. Uh, but the other side of that is don't worry about people thinking about you because they don't yeah and sitting in that and going, Hey, I bet right now nobody is thinking of me.
00:34:40
Speaker
ah is not a great place to sit in. It's a really lonely thought. Yeah. Yeah. And so every once in a while where somebody just like, Hey, by the way. yep which is why a lot of people, a lot, God, I'm saying all these cliche things, like a lot of people, like it's funny like, what do you mean a fuck a lot of people? What does that even mean, Trump? Yeah. betty people are saying So many, all the people. ah But I often hear ah about all the bad things about social media and how it's just a time waster and all these things. But ah there is nothing better than getting an Instagram
00:35:18
Speaker
a post where somebody shared a meme to you. Oh, yeah. Where it's just like, I don't care about this meme so much. But you thought of me. Yes. And it was a big thing. We said my ex and I before we before we broke up when we were together, she was really big into getting people birthday cards. And I was always one of those people where I'm like, I get the gift that the cards are not that important or whatever. Like who cares about cards, you just throw those out anyway.
00:35:46
Speaker
and then ah and then I think at one point somebody just got me a card ah and and it but it wasn't like a birthday card it was like instead of no it was just a card and it like they they handed it to me they'd written something in it and the feeling of importance when you you know that first I had to think of you And even if they thought of you at the drugstore, this is still $5 and five minutes that they did not need to spend.
00:36:19
Speaker
and so It's those little things that like nothing's better. Showing up to a party and like if I know James, if I know you're gonna be there. yeah And then if I show up and I'm like, i brought ah I bought some beers for me and all this and also, oh, here's a Wonder Bar, because I know you fucking love peanut butter, Wonder Bars, that's your favorite thing. yeah I saw it, thought of you, grabbed it, brought it to you. magic um There's just something special about,
00:36:47
Speaker
and and it's but And I think the magic of it is it's in the nonchalance of it. Yeah. it's It's not an event, it's not ah you don't make it, it's not a theatrical presentation, it's not a big deal. It's really a throwaway where it's just like, oh yeah, saw this, I know you like this, got this for you. And that's it, nobody's looking for a thank you, nobody's making a production out of it. And ah yeah, so like that meme culture, the the text stuff,
00:37:18
Speaker
And then and then I go into a ah shame spiral after that because I'm like because I'm like, oh, he's probably reaching out because he really needs somebody. Right. And I don't have the energy to help somebody right now because I'm pretty low myself. Yeah. Yeah. And so ah <unk> that's the double edged sword of the people who reach out. So a lot of yeah a lot of people again, a lot of people all the people I hear often And it's like, make sure you reach out, man, reach out, just reach out. And I'm like, yeah, but if you're reaching out, I also assume that you need a helping hand. And I ah in those moments, I'm usually not yeah capable of helping. And then I feel worse. You know, but I do get that buzz where I'm just like.
00:38:01
Speaker
Oh, you did think someone does think of me. It's magic. It's magic. There's nothing better than I agree wholeheartedly. It's it um actually so funny. it It was shared as a meme from a friend of mine um about this like concept of I think it's called something like pebbling. Yeah, I want to say it's tear it's like that's all it is. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like just this tiny little things of like, hey, I thought of you just a sparkly little thing, you know, and it's magic and it and it and it's like it It could be so simple, but it is so impactful, you know? And I think that that's, to me, that's actually really the core of a friendship, maybe of the show, maybe of just like what I'm after. I don't know, but it's like, yeah I'm with you. It's like, I don't want these big, huge grand gestures. I just want almost like blasé, you know? Like just little, little bits here and there, you know? yeah
00:39:06
Speaker
How quickly do you become a friend? oh That is such a good question. That is something that I am really exploring lately. I wish I had a stronger answer for it. I think for me, it's...
00:39:26
Speaker
I don't know if it's necessarily a timeline thing. I think it's more of like, ah what am I feeling thing? And, and that changes person to person. But I think what it breaks down to is like, when do I feel safest with this person? And like, how soon do I feel safe with this person? And that doesn't necessarily mean like, uh, can I trauma dump on this person? you know You know, like, like, um, it's more about just like,
00:39:55
Speaker
It's those feelings you know that we've been talking about, those feelings of like being unsure, those feelings of insecurity. It's like when I'm in a place with someone where those questions, they're not necessarily gone, but they're quieter. you know um And I think that it comes from like a shared a shared sharing, you know, like, like, um, you know, if, if this person is demonstrating that they're feeling safe with me, they're talking about stuff that they might not be comfortable with, you know, I'm comfortable to share with them. Um, yeah, I don't know if it's necessarily a timeline so much as like, uh, behavior thing for me. And I think that's what it really boils down to is these feelings of like,
00:40:40
Speaker
And funny enough, I think it comes back from some like potential behaviors I'm trying to address, not negatively, but like, you know, stuff I'm trying to shift of things like, Oh, this person is showing me they're safe. So that must mean that that I'm safe. You know, things like that, right? Like I'm sort of, I'm watching off of their behavior more often than not. Um.
00:41:01
Speaker
But I think it also it also moves back to things like you were talking about, about like when somebody starts like unprompted sharing stuff to me, you know, maybe I met, you know, a friend through a friend and and we've now connected and they're starting to share stuff with me, you know, or or we're starting a chat, something like that. I think I think it's yeah, it's behavioral.
00:41:21
Speaker
um And i I, one reason I'm personally being really mindful of like time stuff is because I have had the habit in the past of like speed running these things and being like, we've hung out once and we got along that one time. So obviously we're best friends. So like, here's all my trauma and here's the name of the first dog who I owned who died and you know, and like just bought, right?
00:41:50
Speaker
um And I'm just being much more mindful of like parsing that stuff out, you know, um and letting it happen naturally because it will if you just let it, you know, and not not force those things.
00:42:03
Speaker
um um But yeah, I, I, I, in the past I've, I've been like, it's almost like the old cliche of like, when can you sleep with a date? It's like, you know, third hangout and now we're best friends, you know.
00:42:21
Speaker
ah Yeah. No, um, that makes sense. Uh, I think. you talk a lot about yeah yeah now that now that I feel safe here's all my here's all my stuff I don't talk about my stuff to anybody so that's that's never been my thing but like I think I do this in all relationships, but I fall quickly. it it And but like, yeah, if if the vibes right, I'm like, hey, dude, I've been doing this for a long time. I know I know what this is. I know this feeling. Let's just go. But but that's usually just, hey, ah now that we're friends, we should like hang out all the time now. Yeah. And it's like.
00:43:06
Speaker
Oh, no. It's like when it's not reciprocated, it's like, oh, man, did I read that wrong? Yes. And then it's like, no, you didn't read it wrong. I'm an adult person with responsibilities. Yes. We can't hang out every night. No, I can't go to the thing on Thursday. Yeah. yep Which is really bad. Like, I ah get those feelings, but also,
00:43:26
Speaker
I'm busy as fuck. Yeah. So it's like, I don't, I don't know. So it's, it's one of those things where it's like, Oh man, we should hang out all the time. Are you available in these very specific windows?
Balancing Creativity & Social Life
00:43:37
Speaker
And they're like, no. And I'm like, Oh man, I don't have any friends. Literally. Right. ah So this is actually, this is another element of something I wanted to ask you about. Um, and it ties in so perfectly about like, it's something I've been really trying to navigate. Um, especially with, you know, with the podcast coming back, with my writing practice coming back, you know, like I.
00:43:56
Speaker
for for the front half of the year I was putting out an episode a week plus a ah newsletter every week and like on top of like other creative projects and then on top of like a job and like trying to like weekly newsletter sites awful it's monstrous it's I'm never gonna do it again never ever ever um ah sign up on the substag it's free ah ah every two weeks ah minimum or sorry maximum I should say probably more like monthly but anyway um ah links are in the show notes um
00:44:30
Speaker
I burnt myself the fuck out, right? Took a summer break. And now that it's all coming back, you know, I spent the last three months like socializing and dating and like enjoying my life. And now all these things are coming back and I'm like, uh oh.
00:44:46
Speaker
I haven't seen a friend in a month, you know, and um I'm curious about how you navigate that stuff. im ah um Half of me really wants to unpack like how you do what you do because I'm so fascinated and i I'm like really,
00:45:05
Speaker
What's the right word I'm looking for? Like I am really impressed by what you've built and and it's like yeah you you you feel like ah someone I'd like to emulate or like, you know, follow in the path of, you know, for the stuff you're working on. And, and so there's a part of me that's like, tell me your secrets. Uh, so, you know, um, but also like, I think just on a personal level, like, like, how are you finding, navigating, bouncing that stuff? Cause you, you know, you you mentioned already this idea of like dedicated time and stuff like that.
00:45:39
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, I don't have any friends and I'm not dating anybody a fair. Okay. To be fair. Uh, it's not the friends thing. Uh, we, uh, the, the, the, the friend stuff I do like, I purposefully go out of my way to schedule that stuff, but I'm not dating anybody. And, uh, this might be a pessimistic outlook on, uh, relationships and girlfriends and wives in general.
00:46:00
Speaker
ah But I have been able to do a whole bunch of stuff because I don't have somebody upset at the things I choose to do. ah and And so that helps because yeah, we joke about this a lot around ah me and the people who ah who who knew my relationship in the past, but it's like ah none of this would exist if I was still with my ex.
Content Production & Efficiency
00:46:21
Speaker
yeah Because everything I do is ah silly and and unimportant.
00:46:27
Speaker
And so all of this silly and unimportant stuff wouldn't happen. And ah and yeah, you know what? i'll give me a i'll I'll brag for a couple of seconds. Please do.
00:46:38
Speaker
Uh, uh, so yeah, the show, uh, it's based on a game from a, from a renowned ah company. Uh, and then after the first season, uh, they, uh, they reached out and they said, we need to talk about your show. Uh, and so I called Evan and the rest of the team and I said, I'm taking a meeting with CGE. Uh, we may need to work on new graphics cause we might be doing spy words live on my, on, on Thursday. Uh,
00:47:06
Speaker
Uh, and then, uh, cause yeah, or the cease and desist is coming. Uh, and then we met with CGE and they're like, this is amazing. It's awesome. And we want to support it. And, uh, through that I've worked, I work with them a lot. Uh, no idea when this is coming out, but the weekend that we, uh, recorded this, I'm going to be in Toronto, uh, with CGE for, uh, for, for, for an event.
00:47:28
Speaker
ah They brought me to GenCon for an event, and we're talking about doing another Codenames Live episode. They want to do two a month. We can do more or less, ah but they want to do it on their channel, whether it be on YouTube or Twitch. And it'd be like their own thing. It'll be a paid thing. And then ah there's also talks. We're also having a discussion on ah other opportunities with CGE and that I could be helpful with. And so there's that. Because of Codenames Live, I've been able to tinker around with Nerd and Correct, which is a brand of mine that ah I want to do stuff with. And so like you were saying, the the amount of stuff I do, ah my weekly schedule is Monday nights we do Codenames Live the new class.
00:48:11
Speaker
Tuesday, well, not this one, because we're recording on a Tuesday and we're doing this, but usually I would record the Nerd and Correct podcast, which is a weekly podcast that would be done today. I've already posted in the Discord that I've got more important things to do. There won't be a podcast tomorrow. God damn right. ah Wednesdays, I have off. There's nothing that happens ah for Wednesday except that the podcast drops on Wednesday. So it's recorded Tuesday night. It drops on Wednesday.
00:48:36
Speaker
And then Thursday is the main class the main cast episode of Codenames. And then Friday, also nothing happening. And then Saturday is board game day or Grandma and Grandpa, depending on if the kids are here. And board game day ah happens because it's time with friends. that's when i like This is like we go all day and we meet up at Sam's ah condo party room.
00:49:05
Speaker
yeah And we bring board games and we just hang out all day. Uh, so like that's ah where I get my fill and they they know that it's happening. Plus I get my fill. My best friends are on the show on Thursday. So it's like, I also see them online every Thursday. Uh, and then, uh, and then, yeah, and then Sunday is usually some kind of recoup day. Uh, but there's also during the month, uh, I've got to write the newsletter because we dropped the nerd and correct newsletter, uh, every, uh, every month.
00:49:32
Speaker
Uh, and I used to do a podcast called the adventures we have from inside the house. It's my favorite thing I've ever done. It's also the first thing that had to go. Cause it is the most draining and time consuming thing. Gotcha. Okay.
00:49:46
Speaker
And that is my trick. Everything I do is the easiest it could possibly mean. Oh, I left out. I my kid and I also do a Patreon exclusive show. I was going to say reality TV. Yeah. And that one ah we that was a little bit easier. It's a TV trick. We set up we set up to the living room and then we will watch four or five episodes of something. And then that gets cut up.
00:50:16
Speaker
into individual episodes that drop weekly. so but what's What's amazing is that you've like built this work schedule around socializing. you know like So you're cheat coding it in a way of like getting both in one. you know yeah ah Yeah. If I ever start dating somebody, my kid's going to be mad because they're not going to be on the reality TV show anymore.
00:50:41
Speaker
You just have to start a new show on Wednesdays or something. Yeah. like Maybe I start dating somebody. They can be my mod. and we can That's how we'll hang out. They'll moderate them. yeah We'll get rid of Sam. yeah he'll He'll be relegated to board game days. yeah Uh, but yeah, uh, yeah. So the trick for me is that everything is as apps as simple as possible. Um, code names. Um, Oh, that's what I do. That's what I do on Wednesdays. Uh, and the reason that I forgot about it is because it's only 20 minutes out of my day.
00:51:16
Speaker
ah So on Wednesdays, I go to my computer, I open up my codenames files, I grab everybody's pictures, I grab everybody's names, I throw them into the promos, I throw them into the intros and the extras for the show. All of those are templated out. I spent four or five days creating all of those things once and built them in a way where I just have to replace pictures and stuff. And so all promotion and all ah and all the graphics for the show 20 minutes on a wednesday and then i hit export and they're good to go and so because codenames is live uh there's no other than the pre-production and then doing the actual show uh after that i save to youtube uh which it gets fed to the playlist in my patreon because if you're
00:52:03
Speaker
at the five dollar level you get access to the past episodes and so that's how they get them it's unlisted youtube links of the entire show there's no editing either which i think i should probably cut off the five minutes of the waiting room at the beginning but whatever You've you can skip ahead. Exactly. Yeah. ah Reality TV is hanging out with my kid watching a show that we were going to watch anyway. And because it goes into the Patreon, it's also uncut. So it's in out and then export and then throw up on Patreon. The Nerd and Correct podcast is a stream of consciousness podcast on Tuesday. I sit down, hit record, and then I talk for 45 minutes and then I hit stop and it takes me 15 minutes to get it up on Patreon ready to go the next day.
00:52:48
Speaker
Uh, but yeah, the only thing that ever took time was the thing that I was proudest of. Like I said, there's a podcast called the adventures we have from inside the house. Uh, and that was, uh, it was a difficult one because I had to write it and then I would, uh, and then I would record it. And then that one would be edited heavily to make sure that it flowed well. The pacing was well, I got rid of my big fat person breaths because I breathe a lot while I record.
00:53:13
Speaker
And so I had to get all the who out of there while you're doing the thing. Uh, and those were, those were great because I wanted to do, uh, famously, famously for anybody who wants, who listens to that podcast, the whole idea was it's an entertainment pop culture podcast, but it's not a review show. So if I'm talking about something, I'm talking about the cultural impact or the reasoning behind it or, or how it affects,
00:53:39
Speaker
ah how things can be affected by it or why it's there so there's episodes like uh a lady uh uh something weird and a lady cops solve crime uh is my favorite genre of television uh and it's like and i told that to somebody once and they're like uh that what is that like two shows and i'm like oh Oh, contrary. That's like 78 shows. ah There's three of those being released this season. Yeah. That's a tried and true trope, but it rules. Yeah. It's, it's amazing. And so then I talk about that trope, why it works, why it doesn't, uh, I was, uh, I was working on another one called, uh, uh,
00:54:19
Speaker
uh the sherlock syndrome where uh it's it's these shows where uh there's this one person who helps solve crimes and he's like so weird and bizarre uh that he solves them all but the dangers of it of course like the reason why those ones aren't as good as lady cop and something weird is that the sherlock type ones rely on the investigators not being good at their job. So it's like you watch like the mental list or you watch something else where it's just like, no, no, those cops, but they also need to be good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's the thing about house. It's like, how many seasons can you have people be like, you're a loose cannon house. We don't believe you. you exactly It's like, how many, how many fucking tumors did he take out last week? You know, like,
00:55:07
Speaker
So yeah. So, uh, anyway, I love that podcast cause it also it lets me explore everything. And it's also the reason why it wasn't successful and why it's not marketable, uh, is because you can't, how do you pitch that? It's like, Oh, there's one episode about this. There's one that's talking about how, uh, Emperor's new groove is the best Disney movie. There's another one about, uh, Richard, uh, Frederick Bachman books, uh, cultural exploration. That's a, there's a, there's a market there. What are you talking about? Yeah, for sure. But again, that took up a lot of time. Yeah. Writing one episode was like two or three days. Recording the episode is like an hour or two. Editing it is like two or three hours to get it right. Yeah. And then ah so and especially with our types of brains and the the rest of the time.
00:55:52
Speaker
It was it was good at the beginning because it was covid ah Work didn't really know what was going to be happening and And I run a video production studio. So for a long time even when we were back at work, there was nothing to do and at at home and then Yeah, and then all of a sudden I also was in better shape then. And so I was it was easier to stay awake. Yeah. ah Because you didn't have like, ah you know, fat people syndrome where you're just like, I need I need a nap because I had a sandwich and like.
00:56:25
Speaker
ah Oh, I had, ah oh no, I had potato salad. I'm in trouble. Yeah. Oh, game over. I i don't have any more energy to to put into things. So I had a lot more energy before. And so it was like, ah, let's go. But then it's like as Nerdy Crack got bigger, ah some things had to fall
Personal Connections vs. Larger Followings
00:56:43
Speaker
away. And it was always going to be the stuff that took the worst. Yeah.
00:56:46
Speaker
ah That being said, like you said, the stuff that stayed ah was always the ones about connection. The Nerd at Correct podcast is because there are people who follow me and they go into the discord and they do live listens of it where they listen and they'll comment to me as if they're like they're live. I'm i'm like I don't want to say shocked, but like I'm just so impressed by like the community that you built because like, you know, I'll i'll come on the crazy. It's amazing. And like and they're so engaged and they they know Like they know what they're talking about, you know, and they're like they're just yeah, it's it's a it's a community that I have never been actively a part of before, you know, it's I've I I've always been jealous of communities like that and so Ted to like and like I'm so
00:57:35
Speaker
I'm like, I'm on tenterhooks all the time. I'm just like, I like, I like ah delicate. I'm like, Lenny. I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to crush, crush the baby bunny. Yeah. yeah ah Because again, it, for me, it still feels like a really fragile ecosystem. Cause again, we've got nine seasons. We've done over 450 episodes and.
00:57:56
Speaker
Which is stupid. Nobody. This should not have 450 episodes of it. Like that doesn't make sense to me. But there's but it's this community and and we're trying to figure out how to grow this because ah it's a it's a very strong community, but it's not a large one. So it's like we have 30 people.
00:58:19
Speaker
Uh, that I say I, I could say are in this community, but they are in it. They've been in it for five years and they watch every episode and they don't go away. Uh, we've got, uh, when I, when I listen to podcasts, uh, with my friends, uh, I always, uh, want to hear them say my name.
00:58:39
Speaker
Uh, so I'm going to do that. Uh, Dan, stupid monkey, Janati, uh, who's always in there. Lindsay's always in there. Uh, and, uh, we've got a lot of other people, uh, like we've got like Dicotic and Peter Middo from Australia. They watch all the time. Yep.
00:58:55
Speaker
uh and uh i'm missing a whole bunch of people i shouldn't have started mentioning people yeah yeah you're gonna get yeah all these other people that i didn't mention are gonna be like what the fuck what about me you know but that is something that's so magic about ah about those kinds of communities is that something I've really grown to cherish is, yeah, I don't have a massive group of listeners, but the listeners I do have are really engaged and it means so much more to me. I would way rather one really engaged listener than a hundred like just flippant
00:59:26
Speaker
Once in a while, no engagement. end It's got to be at least five. That if it's just one, they're weird. and Well, you know what I mean, though, like it's like I'd like I'd like one one. the It's to me, it's the one to one hundred ratio. The 30 people who watch every episode are like we have we have like twenty five hundred people who follow us on Twitch. So and they'll pop in every once in a while. But the important people to me is like like.
00:59:50
Speaker
Like like I said, like i'm I'm forgetting a bunch of people now because we're i'm we're we're on the spot. But the people that you notice aren't there. Like I'm on the stream and it'll be like, you know, it's been a long time since I saw that person's name. Like I wonder, I wonder if they're OK or what's going on. But yeah, you've got this crew so much so that we we made baseball jerseys. yeah You have to like that you have to order and you get like something you can put stuff that you want on your back.
01:00:16
Speaker
And we're like, Oh, we'll probably, there's some hardcore people in the chat. Uh, and so we'll probably get about 10 of these. Uh, and yeah, where we're, I think in total there's 32 of those baseball jerseys out in the wild now, or or will be once this next order goes out. And, and yeah, it's like, we're, it's not, we're not a huge community. Uh, most people still haven't heard of us, but, uh,
01:00:39
Speaker
But yeah, we've got those people that are like, when I show up at conventions and stuff, like when I went to Gen Con, I had people show up and I'm like, Hey, I'm part time fairies. That's me. And I'm like, Oh my God. I know exactly who you are because you're in the chat. And so that's magical where you're just like, there's these regular and ordinary people that are there. And then the other thing that makes me fairly real, real good about the show and why It's like, I think I have friends. Maybe they're my friends. But it's this idea that I do this show and it's all entertainers and all of us know.
01:01:14
Speaker
don't get, it don't leave the house for free. Uh, like if you're going to do something, get paid for it. I don't have a budget for that. And so I'm like, this will be the year where I asked people to be on the show and they'll be like, show me the money. Uh, but there are, but everybody comes back and it's they, they do it for free. And I'm like,
01:01:38
Speaker
There's clearly something magical here. I don't know how to, I don't know how to show it to more people, but with the amount of people, the caliber of people. and That are like, yeah, let's do this. I mean like like John katoochies coming back. Yeah, it's like if I get Keith law the the the Sports writer he's coming on the show because he heard it was fun. Yeah So it's like I mean who doesn't love just spending a couple hours playing a board game You know like it's and that's how we sell it too cuz cuz people like oh, how do you get all these people on? I'm like, well because like if you saw the email I send it's just like dude, this is just a chill hang. Yeah, I That's all it is. and We can promote stuff for you. If you like, we can talk about your stuff. We can also not talk about your stuff. ah We like we and the the whole idea. We like a taskmaster. We like that idea where there's people on screen. They do something. They're famous for something and they're talented at the thing they do. ah But we're going to watch you just just watch them be cool. Yeah.
01:02:37
Speaker
yeah What they do is irrelevant and if we didn't tell you it wouldn't matter because at the end of the show we want you to love them and want to support them no matter what it is they do. Nothing makes me feel better than when somebody has watched the show and then later finds out that person is a comedian and then goes to their show or finds out later that they were on a TV show and then I hear in the discord that they've binged that person's TV show.
01:03:02
Speaker
yeah And it's like, yeah, that's what makes Taskmaster beautiful, which by the way, I have an episode of that on my podcast, ah on why that's the best ah ah public public appearance and that you can do. And it's because it's not promoting anything, it's promoting you. Like if you go on Conan and you and you talk about your movie, people might become a fan of your movie. If you go on Taskmaster and you do it right, it doesn't anything you do for the rest of your career, you're gonna get support because people love you.
01:03:31
Speaker
And so that's the vibe we're trying to get with the show. I hope that resonates and hope and also ah greedily. i I want these people to remember my name and think of me as a friend too.
Self-Worth & Emotional Resilience
01:03:50
Speaker
Do you tie your self-worth to friendship in any way? fundamentally yeah um and that's actually and that's something that I'm very much like trying to address right and and you know
01:04:06
Speaker
sometimes like I forget what the saying is but it's sometimes like sometimes you don't really know yourself until somebody shows it to you and I find in listening to you I'm hearing a lot of my own internal thoughts you know these things of like do I have friends am I connected you know because from the outside I look at you and I'm like you're beloved you know like like ah you know like everybody on the show is having such a blast you're so charismatic like yeah it's such a joy for me to be a part of it you know like you know you've been you've been sending me out these little like invites to that be like a replacement for for some of the some of the shows and and it's always like such a pleasure you know um so it's like it
01:04:52
Speaker
ah hearing hearing your and you know your your internal thoughts vocalized and and and realizing how much I recognize it in myself um definitely is like part of my continued, you know, you know I've been calling it my re-brain-ing, right? And, because I know in the past I've definitely linked like, well, I'm friends with this person and this person is cool. So that must mean I'm kind of like tangentially cool, you know? um And what I've really been focusing on is like, it's all, you know, it's that,
01:05:23
Speaker
Part of it is the reparenting and kind of ah processing through old thoughts. And then part of it is just that real, like um that unconditional self-love, unquestioning self-love, right? you know Which is really fucking hard. It's really fucking hard to be like, yeah, but, and it's like, no, no.
01:05:44
Speaker
Unquestioning, it's unconditional, right? There's nothing you can do to make you unloved, right? um And that takes so much practice and that takes so much like mindful, active reminder and reinforcement that it's like,
01:05:57
Speaker
If somebody likes you, that's lucky for them. That doesn't mean anything about your value. You know what I mean? And, and cause yeah, for, for the longest time, it's always been the people I'm friends with are who give me value. And so in really mindfully and actively reducing my friend group.
01:06:17
Speaker
And instead of relying on outside people to give me that validation, and but instead to give it to myself, it's been a complete life changer, you know? And, um, so yeah, I think, I think I, if you had spoken to me even a year ago, I would say fundamentally, absolutely. That's where my value comes from. And now I'm at a stage where I'm like, Oh, I still very much derive personal value from that, but I am.
01:06:41
Speaker
actively shifting it to be like anything I'm lacking in or perceiving to lack in, I'm just giving it to myself instead. You know what I mean? And and and you know if if if I want somebody to send me a meme, I go look at memes. You know if i you know what I mean? like it's like like right you know and and um And it's lonely in a way, and it also is really liberating liberating in a way because it's like, yeah, I don't i don't need to get that validation from anyone else because I can always be a source of it for myself, you know? So when people do come and go, as people do, you know? And when life changes, as it does, I know I can trust myself to always be there and always be present with myself, right?
Hope & Positivity in Community
01:07:27
Speaker
um Do I always believe that? Fuck no, but it's what I'm working on, you know?
01:07:36
Speaker
um Yeah, but that's, yeah, because I think I think it's really easy to find that validation outside and to become kind of addicted to it, right? I think that's why we're performers. I think that's why we're into these, you know, it's like that joke is a date. Is it Mark Marin who talks about like, uh, did you become an actor because your dad hated you or because, um, because your mom loves you too much. Yeah. Yeah. Right. You know, like, and it's like, um, we're, we're so,
01:08:09
Speaker
We're so not special, right? like None of us are special. yeah and that's what that's And that's great. That's not an insult. This just means like we have a very shared experience that we could be sharing more with each other. you know Because we while we're not special, we are unique. you know um Our take on things is unique. And so it's OK to reshare the same stories if they're similar to someone else, because you have a unique take on it, right?
01:08:32
Speaker
um um That leads me into the final kind of tentpole question ah um that i I've added in this season. um
01:08:45
Speaker
It's this question of of hope, you know, like the world is so fucked right now and everything feels so cataclysmic and like on the brink of something really fucking bad. And I think that it's okay to accept that. It's okay to not close your eyes to it. And it's also okay to recognize that, you know,
01:09:06
Speaker
People have been having babies throughou throughout all of history. Anything that's ever happened, people had kids through it. You know what I mean? That that type of that type of thing, right? um So I'm curious from your personal experience and from you know just where you're at in your day today, what is something that's giving you hope to to kind of keep on getting up, keep on doing your thing? Dear Lord.
01:09:30
Speaker
and ah
01:09:35
Speaker
God I don't know how to answer this question because I fuck I don't want it I don't want to be all cliche like oh I've got children and they're amazing that's what but they are my kids are fucking dope yeah and to to the point where I get really annoyed by anybody who talks about the burden of children and I'm like fuck are you talking about yeah but this is This is a you problem. You're too selfish because if you just let go, and yu and something I learned really, really early in parenthood ah ah was this, there's this knee jerk reaction. It's also where I like, I'm always worried I'm a narcissist.
01:10:13
Speaker
which i think might be the first sign that i'm not i don't think narcissists worry about it too much that that that tends to be that that's what my therapist has said yeah yeah but but i'm always like worried about it so i'm always like checking myself uh over and over uh but it but in early parenthood it was like this knee-jerk reaction where you' your three-year-old toddles up to you while you're opening up a packet of M&Ms. And they're like, oh, M&Ms. And they're asking you for some. And you're like, no, these are my fucking M and&Ms. And you don't want to share your M and&Ms. And you're like, bro.
01:10:45
Speaker
You're not going to fucking share your M&Ms with a three year old. yeah Like this is the hill you want to die on. This is, this is, this is the burden that, uh, that has been, that has befallen you. What are you even talking about? And then when I started seeing that, I started noticing it in a lot of other things. I do the knee jerk reaction to say no, because I'm comfortable right now.
01:11:07
Speaker
where it's like, oh, I'm sitting here doing a thing and then you've asked me to do something and my knee jerk reaction is you will change the quality of my time. and And then I started noticing it with my friends, with my family, with my thing where it's like, how how many times does slight discomfort allow me to make someone feel bad?
01:11:32
Speaker
Uh, uh, where it's like, Hey, can you, uh, can you like, if my dad's like, Hey, can you help me bring this sewing machine up the stairs? Cause your mom wants to sell it on Facebook marketplace. Uh, and the moment of like, ah fuck are you kidding me? If I can, I'm just like, I just want to fucking sit and eat this thing. Uh, and it's like, you can cut, you can get back to that and Imagine if you had just jumped up and said, of course, because you're going to anyway, like it's not going to change the fact that you're going to help your friend, your dad, your kid, you're you're going to do it anyway, but you didn't take that moment to make them feel bad before doing it.
01:12:17
Speaker
And so when I started noticing that in a lot of my things, I started changing. I wanted to make sure that in all interactions, I didn't add a step where I made people feel bad. And my kids do that now. And my friends do that. Like the people that I spend the most time around, they've subconsciously started doing it too. And that That's where my hope for the future comes from. It's not that everybody's like, a lot of people are negative. A lot of negative things happen. A lot of bad things happen. And it's contained. Negativity is contagious. oh yeah But to watch positivity also be contagious is is a lot more fun. Just having people realize that, hey,
01:13:04
Speaker
I don't need to make you feel bad right now. yeah And and i don't I don't need these, I think that i think now everybody's like calling microaggressions, but I think that's a separate thing. um But it's like it's the little things.
01:13:15
Speaker
like yeah Uh, your slight hesitation, your knee jerk reaction to push something away. Uh, that hurts feelings. Uh, that hurts. That makes people feel bad. That makes people not want to reach out to you anymore. Yeah. Uh, and then watching the culture of the people that I work with, uh, the people, uh, cause I, I manage a team and we're, we're like that there too, where it's like,
01:13:38
Speaker
And nobody's scared to ask for anything and have somebody grumble about it. Because it's all like, no, no, so we're all here. Also, we have a cool gig. We make videos. So and it's hard to it's hard to complain. Yeah.
01:13:51
Speaker
So it's like anybody who's like, oh, my job is like, what the fuck are you talking about? You make movies. You like a stop. Stop. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it's I think the hope that I see is how maybe not as quickly, maybe not as maybe not as overtly. But I think more solidly, I think positivity spreads more strongly than negativity.
01:14:14
Speaker
and I think negativity goes quickly. But I think people don't like feeling bad. And so positivity can can can can take root and live longer. I think that's what's happening. I love that. And i I would like to hope that's true. I mean, too if it feels true. But I but you know, the the negative in my brain is like, ah you know, but yeah, there's always something bad around the corner. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Promotion & Support of Friends' Work
01:14:41
Speaker
Tim, you know, um, you know, I just have the like the little wrap up action question, but before I do that, like I just, I really do want to say like, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the show. i I mean that genuinely when I say like, you seem to me to be so beloved and you have created such a, like you've created such a fantastic community that I feel so happy to be a part of. I feel so lucky to have been invited in and, um,
01:15:08
Speaker
And, you know, yeah, like, you know, like I said at the top, I know we don't know each other in person, but every encounter I've had with you has been just like joyful and positive and, and enlightening in some way, you know, and, and, and I just, I really Yeah, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show and telling your stories and and like just doing what you're doing because I think you're phenomenal. So keep it up, man. Thanks, man. I really appreciate that. It makes me feel very, very good. Thank you. You're very you're so welcome. I you know, I know every time you were talking about like feeling lonely and stuff, a I was feeling so kindred to it and be I was like, fuck, I wish I lived closer. You know, I think that's I think that's my biggest issue. And again, a real fucking problem with this Internet and this ah and and and and Covid is that I have met all of the people that should be in my daily. Yes. And holy shit, are we spread across the globe. That's the problem, isn't it? right And it is not cheap to fly in Canada. No.
01:16:17
Speaker
um yeah do you have Before we do the last ah the last question for listeners, um do you have anything you want to plug? Obviously, we've talked about your show, but like but um but plug it again here. ah where can Where can listeners find you? Where do you want them to go next?
01:16:35
Speaker
ah Well, yeah, and go to Nerd and Correct on most things. ah Instagram and on Twitch. and There's a Codename's Live page on Facebook you can check out, but ah we're more active on Instagram and Twitch. Those are our places. um ah if you If you can, and if you will indulge me,
01:16:55
Speaker
Uh, my main cast on Thursdays is filled with brilliant, incredible, uh, comedians, entertainers and influencers. Uh, and so, uh, Danielle Standring, uh, Danny Standring everywhere on the internet. Uh, Brendan McKegan, he's the only one on the planet. So Brendan McKegan is easy to find. Tavis Mapleson, uh, Jason Hatrick.
01:17:18
Speaker
um Sam Murdock, obviously. Logan Avery Cooper and Lorenzo Patino. Shannon LaHaye. These are all ah the most important people to me. They're the closest people to me. They're all ah struggling artists at different levels. Some are doing well, some are doing less well.
01:17:40
Speaker
But if if somebody took the time to write all of those people's names down and just go find them and go look for them, they've been with me for fucking nine seasons.
01:17:53
Speaker
And again, they're not getting paid and they weekly do this. So if you if you have friends like that, but ah you are you are a fortunate person. So yeah, I do not wanna leave the the podcast without making sure that everybody knows those people are very special.
01:18:14
Speaker
100% I love that you know it's it's it's amazingly rare and it's something I think I want to try and you a little bit more in future interviews but um trying to get shadows to like besties, you know, shadows to friends. Right. There's a fucking show about friendship. Let's talk about your friends. Right. You know, but but I will make sure I'm going to put all the links to all those accounts in the show notes. So you know what like let me do the work for you. I'll fucking I'll email it to you. So you i just copy paste. I mean, that's what I was going to do off recording. I was going to be like, no, but send me the links. Yeah. Yeah.
01:18:49
Speaker
But all that will be in the show notes, so thank you very much for that. um I always like to leave listeners on a little actionable step, something that they can try out. So what do you think is one thing listeners could try doing this week to be a better friend, whether it's to themselves or to their community?
01:19:07
Speaker
Oh, well, that now feels like I just did it. I'd be a cheerleader. ah Just be a cheerleader and do it. Be be a secret cheerleader. You know, like how, like you find out years after somebody died that they donated millions of dollars to a cause. Yeah. And you're like, oh, what a great guy. They didn't even say anything. That's how you should. cheer That's how you should celebrate and be a cheerleader for your friends, too. ah If somebody's got a and And this might be specific to the fact that we are were we're creators and performers, like all of my friends are creators and performers. But it's like, if ah if your friend ah just wrote a book that's dropping next week, again, don't just share their posts. Just like be like, hey, this ah my friend ah my friend Jen, I should probably get her last name.
01:19:56
Speaker
Let's see, by the way, is this a thing for you as an ADHD person? ah I don't remember anybody's last names and people get mad at me. It's like, how do you not know their last name? I'm like, cause I don't fucking call them by their last name. I also just don't know names. I've, I've, I've, I've, um, I've, I've coined it. Uh, I named people on vibes, not on their actual names. So so I'll, be I'll like meet them. I'll hear their name and I'll be like, Oh yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. That that's never going to stick. Instead, you're now going to be,
01:20:22
Speaker
Steven, because you feel like a Steven to me. So forevermore in my head, you're Steve or whatever it might be. You know, it's why I know so so many champs and I know so many buds and I know so many pals. I am so ah exuberantly. Hey, bud. Oh, what's up, guy?
01:20:45
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, holy shit. I'm so happy to see you. If you you can skip right over it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I know a lot of use. you know Yeah. So here. So here's an example. ah and She's never going to listen to this podcast. I'm never going to tell her about the podcast. I'm going to. I mean, i I'm going to tell her if she asks what's a good podcast, I would like friendless pod.
01:21:06
Speaker
but I'm not going to tell her about my episode is my point. ah So she has no idea, but my friend Jennifer Whiteford, she ah ah she's one of my first friends who is legitimately getting published. So we've got a lot of our friends who are like, they'll self publish and then eventually get picked up by like a double day or something. But Jen got picked up.
01:21:29
Speaker
And she's getting her book, Make Me a Mixtape, ah published. And it's going to be a chapter. You can like go to bookstores. You can go online. it's like fuck You can get physical copies of this. ah It's called Make Me a Mixtape. Her name is Jennifer Whiteford. And it's ah it's it's incredible. She's incredible. And everybody should buy her book.
01:21:51
Speaker
And if you have a friend, ah for for whatever reason, cheerlead without them knowing about it, without telling them, and without ah hoping for a thank you. Because because you should you should think your friends are dope anyway. It should it shouldn't be a favor. It should be a favor to cheerlead your friends. Yeah, go buy your friend's book. God damn it.
01:22:23
Speaker
And that's it.
Wrap-Up & Final Thoughts
01:22:24
Speaker
Thank you so much to Tim for coming on the show, sharing his stories and showing how to organically build a community online. Be sure to check out Codenames Live as well as everything else Tim does on Nerd Incorrect. I've included all the links in the show notes.
01:22:39
Speaker
Also, as promised, I've included all the names for the cast members of Codenames Live in the show notes as well. Give them all a follow. That team is incredible. They're hilarious. They're talented. They're just incredible people. So give them a follow. And if you want more friendless content, be sure to subscribe to the sub stack. This week, there's a brand new review for former guest, Jazz Papadopoulos' book, I Feel That Way 2. and there's tons more content coming down the line. I'm actually getting really excited about everything that I've been writing and preparing, so sign up. It's free. You're gonna love it. Lastly, I'm gonna take a little page out of Tim's book, and I'm gonna recommend everybody this week go be someone's secret cheerleader. Buy someone's book, download their song, share their links, do what you can to get your friends work out in the world.
01:23:29
Speaker
And if all else fails, just send him a nice meme. But that's going to do it for me this week. So I will say thank you so much. And I hope to catch you back here next week with a brand new episode. But as always, I'm not going to worry about that right now. And neither should you because that is then. And this is now. So for now, I'll just say I love you and I wish you well. Fun and safety, sweeties.