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The Intersection of Art and Activism (with special guest Amy J. Lester)
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In this very special episode of Friendless, host James Avramenko interviews the multifaceted Amy Lester, a political organiser, clown, filmmaker, and actress. James and Amy dive deep into the complexities of the clown community, the challenges of living an artistic life within a capitalist society, and Amy's journey from being an active performer to becoming a dedicated political organiser. They discuss the nature of friendships, the intricacies of community, and the inherent power of vulnerability. Towards the end, Amy shares her insights on finding hope and joy amidst the chaos of today's world. Tune in for an engaging conversation filled with humor, introspection, and authenticity.
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Transcript
Introduction and Mental Health
00:00:08
Speaker
Well, hey there, sweet peas. Welcome back to Friendless. I'm your host, James Avromenko, back with a brand new episode. And this week, I'm bringing a long, threatened episode that I recorded months and months and months ago before my little menty bee.
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm chatting with the political organizer, clown, filmmaker, actress, and all-around multi-talented friend, Amy Lester. We explore the pitfalls of the clown community, embracing life's inherent lack of safety, and advocating for yourself by any means. So it's time to sit back, get comfy, set volume at a reasonable level, and enjoy my interview with the one and only Amy Lester, here on Friendless.
00:00:47
Speaker
I've been having a thing recently actually where I've been realizing that a lot of my closest friends were starting to hit that that that time period of having been friends for 20 years.
Friendship and Talents
00:00:57
Speaker
years you know We're hitting that window and it's kind of fucking me up.
00:01:01
Speaker
um And this week I have a friend who you know i haven't seen in person in in the flesh in going on 15 years probably. But has has kind of like bounced in and out of my life throughout the years. And ah she's a she's a political organizer. She's a clown. She's a filmmaker. She's an incredible actress, ah amongst a myriad of other things.
00:01:21
Speaker
The one, the only Amy Lester. How are you doing today? Oh my gosh, James. I'm great. I'm great. yeah i yeah I love that. I love that. You know, it's funny. um I was just having, i have this same conversation many times on the show and I was just having it ah offline yesterday about the, the like kind of like non-starter question of how are you?
00:01:44
Speaker
Because like, you know, my brain always wants to be like, how honest do you want me to be? Cause I'll fucking let a rip if you, you know, and, And so what I actually want to ask you to get started is is a much more woo woo question, but I think more fun is what's one thing that's bringing you joy this week?
00:02:02
Speaker
This week? I'm. i'm getting ready for like, you know, there's new moon kind of Scorpio energy, I think. And I think that's what's going on. I'm trying to catch up on kind of my mundane astrology for the week.
00:02:17
Speaker
ah So I think I'm just kind of getting into that. Like I'm, I feel it myself like picking up like plates and like wiping underneath, like whatever's kind of that, like there's grime in my apartment and I kind of want to nanu nanu.
00:02:30
Speaker
think that's giving me joy right now. but I love it. and Are you, ah do you, do you like cleaning? Does that, does that bring you? No. Okay. No. Cause it's, it's, it's, it's a funny thing. I, for the longest time for years, i would avoid cleaning.
00:02:45
Speaker
I like, I have, I think there are still like legends told of some of my apartments at university. ah But, but in, in, since moving to Vancouver, especially I've really like rediscovered like the kind of like therapy of like washing your toilet, you know? Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:03:01
Speaker
You know, I have big abandonment issues that come up when I'm cleaning. Like I get kind of overwhelmed and I feel like I'm three and I'm like trying to put the sink, put the dish in the sink and I don't know what to do. And everyone's like, hurry up.
00:03:12
Speaker
well We're going to late.
Career Transitions
00:03:13
Speaker
Yes. My ADD trauma. ah though like you know i think you are tapping into something that i don't even always recognize is definitely there and i think about every once a while i'm just like if somebody loved me they'd be here and help me clean this dish because i don't want to do it because i'm all by myself and i have to do it and it's sad it makes me feel sad yeah it's crazy and and and and at this and and the same too i think the other thing the other piece of that too is this idea of like
00:03:43
Speaker
it doesn't feel like i was I was ever actually shown how to do a lot of these things. I was just told to do them. And then when I did them wrong, I was told I was wrong, but I was never actually like corrected. I was just shamed.
00:03:53
Speaker
Right. And, and so that like, that's, you know, that's a sticky memory, right? Oh, that's a tough one. But Hey, but and that's sort of like my general bullshit. But when I do feel like drawn to like, you know, zero in on like a dust bunny and like, you know, make it clean because,
00:04:13
Speaker
you know, it's grimy or something. Like I do feel i get satisfaction from that, but I would say i don't enjoy the like mundane kind of washing up, putting things away like that kind of a struggle.
00:04:24
Speaker
Sure, sure. I mean, I feel like that's not uncommon. Yeah. Yeah. So let's go back a little bit. um You know, we were talking before recording about like we were trying to kind of get our our our story straight, for lack of better way of putting it, of like, how the fuck did we meet, you know? and And, you know, what I find so fascinating about you is that you're somebody who...
00:04:47
Speaker
in In my life in person, you kind of like you popped up and made this massive impact and then kind of floated off into the wind, you know? and and But we have, you know, at least from my perspective, I've i've seen...
Inspiration and Political Organizing
00:05:03
Speaker
little snippets of what you've been up to throughout the years, you know? and And I'm i'm curious um because you're currently in such a different kind of career place than than you were when I knew you.
00:05:15
Speaker
and And I'm really curious to hear about what took you from being such an active, you know, artist, you were a performer, you were a clown, you're an actor. And now you're this like really engaged political organizer. You know, you're working with, with, with I don't know if I can name the party, but like, you're working with with you know, you're working with, with actual government bodies.
00:05:36
Speaker
you Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah we both that that That journey. Well, ah yeah. So, um, I mean, uh, that's a great question. And, uh, I guess I,
00:05:49
Speaker
I don't get to tell it often, or I don't like telling it. i Um, but a real story is, uh, I, um, moved to Toronto in like 20,
00:06:06
Speaker
13, after I went to Goliath, my Philippe Goliath and did this clown shit. And I was like, you know, trying to get my sort of act together and was trying to one-one show. And I started doing standup and I was doing, you know, all this stuff. And I was just grinding it out on stage. Like I got so much stage time. Like I was just,
00:06:24
Speaker
frigging burning it up and doing stuff and kind of trying to get a commercial. Like, I know I had an agent, and I was like kind of hauling my ass, like across the city and blow drying my hair, you know, and trying to get these fucking commercials.
00:06:37
Speaker
And, uh, I never once got a manicure. So all these times when I like showed my hands, like my hands look like shit, you know, and I was just like a dirty clown, like trying to, you know, sell whatever it was, McDonald's. And, uh, I booked one TV show. I got, I got to be on
Art and Capitalism
00:06:51
Speaker
man seeking woman. It was the fucking best day of my life. I, Eric Andre and me were like shooting the shit and I was like, whatever. And everyone was like, we love her. We want her to like, maybe come back, whatever.
00:07:01
Speaker
um and, uh, I just like never booked anything else yeah for like three years. And, uh, I was, um, you know, dating somebody at the time and, um,
00:07:16
Speaker
And kind of slowed down a little bit with like the scene, you know, like I kind of got grossed out by like all the shitty guys and all the kind of like but drinking and the kind of bullshit and the nonsense of it all.
00:07:27
Speaker
And I just wanted to kind of be at home, like because I, you know, this and I felt like, oh, this is a whole other life, like, you know, to not do that and not to be kind of drawn by that. And then so I went back to school to study entrepreneurship and small business because I was like, oh, maybe I'll have like, you know, ah theater company or something, you know, like maybe I'll open up a thing. I'll do something. I'll make make a business.
00:07:50
Speaker
um And I got like renovicted from my apartment. I started dealing with like getting hardcore renovicted and I was like going kind of insane. Like I was having a complete like Saturn return. Like, you know, I don't know if you're like, but there's a whole podcast of astrology behind all that as well. Cause like yeah the people in my building, we all had birthdays the same and we were all losing our home at the same time. And like people, it was like, i and so anyway, I was really, really hopeless and kind of shattered and heartbroken because when I lost this apartment, I was never going to be able to like survive um on my like waitressing money.
00:08:28
Speaker
And like hoping that I was going to like maybe get a TV job. Like that was like that, that I was growing out. I grew up in a really harsh way and I just like couldn't really, and I really didn't want to do it. Like I was like, I really don't, I fucking would feel this like gross feeling when I would get like an audition. to'd be like, boom, like you have to be there. And I'd be like, oh what this is this bullshit.
00:08:50
Speaker
You know, I didn't feel creatively, that it was really fulfilling. And at this meantime, i was doing all this stuff with Paul Bellini and my buddies, like we had like a show and there was people that were just calling me being like, Amy, like I have this great project and I want you to kind of do it. And so, you know, I felt like I just,
00:09:09
Speaker
it was cooler and better to me if I didn't care if it was like, know, fucking my job, you know? And, uh, this political world came upon me kind of, I lost my home. I felt very devastated. I kind of had a breakdown. i was, I didn't know what to do. I felt very lost.
00:09:27
Speaker
And, uh, the candidate for Davenport canvassed me. I was like chain smoking with like my friend. I was like, and he was like, Hey, like, you know, um I don't want people to go through this. Like, you know, I really don't think this is right and whatever. And I just kind of had no job, i had nothing to do. And I, I was like really, really hopeless.
00:09:47
Speaker
And, uh, so I thought, yeah, you know what? I'll try to help you get elected. And I did it out and I canvassed every day and I met these people and, They just kept hiring me for different things.
00:09:59
Speaker
So, you know, I've been a fundraiser. um I've been in ah an organizer. I've been a member of an executive um in Davenport. I work as a constituency assistant now for the member of a provincial member and in Davenport.
00:10:13
Speaker
And, you know, it's a whole other life. There's, you know, it's weird. I was like, thirty I was almost 30 and I was like, you know, there's kind of gotta be more to life than just like not booking commercials, you know?
00:10:29
Speaker
Absolutely. And I also felt like I really had to justify like,
00:10:36
Speaker
I don't say my poverty, but like, you know, like my choice to kind of not be able to do things like, you know, people, ah My siblings are older than I am. And so, you know, if they want to go on a trip, like as the baby of the family, like somebody might throw me a couple of bucks and buy me a ticket for a trip, but like, I'm not going to get trips for the rest of my life. Like, I'm not going to have like other people taking care of things.
00:11:00
Speaker
You know what I mean? Whatever. Like, yeah you know, so I kind of felt like, you know, I had to be really committed to being an actress in order to be living like that.
00:11:11
Speaker
Yeah. that you are yeah Maybe you don't put that on. I don't know. Yeah. No, you know, you're, you're, you're tapping into something that I'm really like, just that framing. It's something that I, I have like really um wrestled with myself because, you know, as the, as the the third child, you know, as the, as the youngest of the three, yeah um you know,
00:11:32
Speaker
I don't, I live on the other side of the country of my entire family. And so like, you know, they have the whole unit, right. You know, they do all the holidays together. They do all the birthdays together. They raise the grandkids together, all the things. And, and I get to make it out like every couple years I come up for a Christmas kind of thing, because like, I, I have never been able to afford like a plane ticket.
00:11:54
Speaker
And so I, I, i have been so reliant on like somebody. Yeah. Like it it's no shade to me yeah either. because no know yeah If I was really, if I was feeling really like to my heart, like I am filling my, i am living in my truest purpose. And like, this is the sacrifice that I
Complexities of Relationships
00:12:14
Speaker
want to be making. And I can like sort of justify that to myself.
00:12:18
Speaker
Then it's doesn't matter. Like, it's not about money. Like it's not about, but I think like there's more to life than like starving for your art. That's right. Yes. And I'm now starving for the art because I really miss all that.
00:12:31
Speaker
Yeah. bla there's There's the like there's the the the balancing act of like the way you know the way art is so inherently and fundamentally and like spiritually counter to capitalism. you know and And so it's like, because you know to me like Art in its purest expression is following an impulse and just letting it ride and seeing where it takes you.
00:12:59
Speaker
Whereas capitalism is like the purest expression of like mechanism. You know, it's just it's a it's a it's a rooted hierarchy. It's a system. And so they're just like fundamentally baseline incompatible. And when we make our artists um have to have to like operate within a system just to survive,
00:13:20
Speaker
they can't, they just can't make art. You know, it's why ah we're seeing now, you know, there' there's, you know, there's the new generations of actors in Hollywood, but like, they're all children of actors or of executives or of, you know, um and like, there's there's no way for anyone to break into any of these systems without already having a ticket in or having somebody kind of picking up the bill for them, you know? I was just i know i sure as fuck don't have that.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, I went to my friend's wedding and I was just in New York for two days. honestly, honestly That amount of time there and then coming back to the city where everybody is like, there's no respect for art.
00:14:05
Speaker
There's no respect for tenant the tenant class. There's no respect for like the diversity of, you know, um perspectives. And it's like awful.
00:14:18
Speaker
It's super awful. But, you know, at the same time, like people are making it work. Yes, very much so. And we kind of have to get our shit together and either like, you know, wine and bitch and like take our, you know, antidepressants and, you know, don't drink and stay on the up and up or else like work really hard whatever. So, yeah, it's not really...
00:14:42
Speaker
Cause that's only like the money side of it. Right. Like there is still the other piece of like, well, if you want to make art, make art, you know, it's just that it's like, that takes time and energy as well. And it's hard to have that energy when you don't have your rent covered or your.
00:14:54
Speaker
Yeah. And Marky Mark has a chain of frigging hamburger restaurants. Exactly. like Pray up, you know? So what is he like a fucking not a committed to his career? Cause he has a hamburger restaurant. Like people have, you can do other shit.
00:15:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. 100%. It would make you less of a thing. Like how how, you know, if you're able to do that thing sustainably only, then great.
00:15:20
Speaker
Nobody actually gives that up for like something else. don't think. Interesting. Could you say more about that? Because I think that's a really fast, like I really like that analysis of like, is is Mark Wahlberg less of an artist now because of his like,
00:15:36
Speaker
you yeah I don't know. You would never say that about Mark Wahlberg. You would never say that about Mark Wahlberg. Yeah. Yeah. would you say that about really anyone who has like multiple streams of like income or like people who are doing different things to survive and do whatever. Like, yeah you know, I think like being a professional artist,
00:15:54
Speaker
honestly kind of forces you to have more than one way of like selling yourself. Like, you know, is art always for sale? Is your art always for sale? Right. Exactly. And does that make me an artist? Like, am I not an artist when I go to my job and, um, get volunteers to go out and get out the vote for this person, you know?
00:16:14
Speaker
do i agree Do I stop being a clown? Hell no. That's exactly right. No, not at all. Not even a little bit. you Not even for five seconds. Yeah. Yeah. And if anything, like, and that's, that's very much where I've begun to land in my life is that it's like, I, you know, obviously my passion is writing and my passion is creativity, but I kind of, in a lot of ways, don't want that to pay my bills.
00:16:37
Speaker
I kind of like it being, you know, just what it is. I, when I find the space and I, when I find the time, I do it. And and the rest of my time is spent you know doing other jobs. I love I love my job, you know, my my my day job. um And and yeah, like being a teacher, i don't think changes the fact that in my heart, I'm a writer.
00:16:57
Speaker
You know what I mean? um and And I think that that's another piece of that whole puzzle of like, i think when we're when when we're young and maybe it's like maybe it's a Canada thing. I don't know. But it's like, yeah.
00:17:09
Speaker
ah it often, it feels like you're conditioned to see yourself as ah eternal failure if you're not...
Predatory Dynamics in Art
00:17:16
Speaker
um if you don't immediately become a successful artist, you know, if you have to get a job. had acting teachers that said you should never be a stage manager because if you offer a stage management job, you're never going to get an acting job.
00:17:29
Speaker
And, you know, it was like ridiculous, but but we, but at that time, you know, like, you know, I was growing up in Ottawa. Like, I'm like, you know, if I believe it enough, like, you know, I'll, I'll do it.
00:17:43
Speaker
And, you know, honestly, James, like,
00:17:47
Speaker
I got into all these acting schools and everything. you know I got like really good auditions and I did that shit.
00:17:57
Speaker
And it was like weird. Like I feel like they were weird. I was weird. i didn't I didn't want to be there. yeah But when they're like, if you don't want to be here, you can go. Like the door is right there.
00:18:11
Speaker
I was like literally going like, I don't know. But I was like, no, I didn't say that. I didn't say that. And scared. I was so scared not to be that. I didn't know who I was.
00:18:23
Speaker
And they didn't know who the fuck I was. Mm-hmm. there's There's an interesting, I was just thinking about this this morning about what, so when I was teaching, like I was teaching theater for a couple of years in Saskatoon. And one of the programs i I was the lead of was this, it was called the Young Company or think that's where it was called I can't even remember it years right anyway it was like ah it was like a group of like they were like 15 to 19 year olds and and one of the students had been in the program a couple years um and there'd been other teachers before and one of the things he said to me at the end of my program was that he was like I really liked your training but I felt like our group was less of a family than other than other programs before and i I said to him I was like well that was my intention because we're not a family we're we're we're working on a play together and it got me thinking about how
00:19:13
Speaker
Teachers will, and this is kind of loaded language, but they'll kind of like lure in young people into these communities under the pretense of like, we're building a family together.
00:19:24
Speaker
And I think that's really predatory in a way because it plays on, you know, often people who get into the arts are people who are lost, people who are who are confused, people who don't always know who they are. And, and they, they find a community within, but then it's like, it's not a safe community, you know, it's not a, it's not a safe family, you know? And I don't like the, maybe that I just like, i get my backup when anyone in power calls a group, their family, because I'm like, no, no, no Yeah. I really didn't have the family. i didn't get that vibe at all from my experience. I felt that it was more elitist and that it was more like, you know,
00:20:00
Speaker
um you're here, therefore you are you are in like, it was like, you're in this room because you are the 30 most talented people that auditioned out of like many thousands.
00:20:12
Speaker
Like right if you make it all the way to the end of this, you will be a professional working in Stratford and everywhere. Like you will have the career that you dream of at as you're 18 years old. And today is the beginning of the fucking you making it. And by the way, you're terrible.
00:20:29
Speaker
You're horrible. Your body's weird. Maybe you're not supposed to be here. um You're failing like, you know, only, and now we're going to cut 10 people. Like no matter if you, even if every person in this room is as good as we thought they were, we still have to cut 10 of you. So only 20 of you are going to be in second year, like that whole thing. Like, and that's where they go. And then people believe it.
00:20:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's culty. It's, ugh.
00:21:00
Speaker
I want to i want to um want to follow a thread back to part of the theme of the show. Right. um Because, you know, you know what i often explore on on here is the idea of friendships and communities. Those are the two big, like, pillars.
00:21:15
Speaker
And, know, you know we' we'll get to both, but i always like to start at the question of friendship because it's like, ah feel like in in a certain way, community is an out, it's like, it's like a multitude of friends.
00:21:27
Speaker
Whereas like friendship is the dilution of the one-to-one and, you know, the question it can be answered in, you know, i feel like every single person has a different definition of it, but I'm really curious about your sort of personal experience with kind of the term friend, you know, and like, what do you,
00:21:47
Speaker
does it mean to be ah ah friend? not Not necessarily good, bad, but just sort of like, what is a friend to you?
00:22:02
Speaker
Well, I think that in my life, some of the best friendships I've i've had, like, um you know, maybe some turbulent times or some kind of like, you know, conflict really,
00:22:17
Speaker
like some degree of conflict. um And those have turned out to be like the strongest friendships that I have and like the most cherished friendships that I have. um And ultimately, I think like the people that I love and cherish that are my friends, um I can have just met them or I could have known them for a long time or, you know, they could be kind of busy right now and, you know, doing other things. and i haven't, you know, really talked to them and,
00:22:46
Speaker
You're not even sure if you have that much in common with them, but you know, there's people that you really love because I feel like you kind of know them. Like you can kind of see who they are and you can kind of see their light and your light supports their light and that makes them your friend.
00:23:04
Speaker
i like that. Does it play into the sort of the idea of like authenticity in a way, you know, like somebody shows up as who they are and they can't Yeah. And you know what, like I had a really, I had really turbulent, like painful friendship breakups, like when I was like 20, you know, and and, and whatever, like those kind of like, just you wake up and you realize like, holy shit, you know, this person,
00:23:28
Speaker
is never gonna stop actually treating me this way. Like they think I'm a, put like they think I'm this way, right? And this person just looked at me, I was and i was heartbroken. i was I felt so like betrayed and so hurt and so confused. And i couldn't believe that someone I cared about, you know, was capable of this.
00:23:45
Speaker
And, you know, she looked at me and she just said, but we'll always be friends. Yeah. What the fuck? And I kind of went, that's what you think.
00:23:58
Speaker
yeah You think that even though I'm here about to vomit with pain and and confusion and distress that I will always be friends.
00:24:11
Speaker
So, oh you know. it's It's a strange, like, there's like, There's an entitlement behind that, but there's also this like kind of like, you know over the last couple of years, especially with with the experiences I've had with different connections, it's often like, what I found is like the the thing that's expressed is often like masking the opposite thing. you know So it's like an expectation of connection is is really like a fear of disconnection. you know and and And there's often this sort of like,
00:24:43
Speaker
counter, you know, say one thing to try and get the opposite, you know? And and I can't help feeling like so much of that comes out of like a scarcity and comes out of a fear from that person, you
Impact of Cinema
00:24:55
Speaker
know? um um And that just really, I don't know, that really, that really like, that really spikes up my my empathy and it also spikes up my, like, get the fuck out of there.
00:25:04
Speaker
You know what i mean? Like, because it's like, that's not a you. have a friend I have a friend who I haven't called in like a month and a half.
00:25:17
Speaker
Like I told her I'd call her and then I had to go out of town. And the thing is she's older, she's a senior. And so she doesn't have like text. Like I can't just like kind of quickly check in. Like if I call this person, like,
00:25:30
Speaker
They like to talk for a while and I kind of have to be in the mood and i have to be kind of ready to do that. And also if I'm going to say like, oh, do you need help with something? Like I want to actually be available to help if that comes up. So i haven't called this person and you know, I feel like kind of a shitty friend.
00:25:49
Speaker
I do feel like a shitty friend.
00:25:53
Speaker
And in the past, this person has been nice about it when I've been like, hey, i know i was supposed to call you a month ago. Like, are you good? And they're like kind of usually happy to hear from me and stuff. So like they deserve better from me.
00:26:07
Speaker
Well, but I mean, that that that to me is like a question of that's a two sided that's a two sided coin, right? You know, because it's like there's personal capacity and there's personal reality. And it's like, you know, something I'm always working on with myself is my kind of people pleasing tendencies, which is like, I have nothing to give, but I think this person wants more. So I'm going to keep giving anyway.
00:26:28
Speaker
you know yeah and then i'm and then I'm burnt out and then I get resentful and then I get shitty you know so it's like um you know if that conversation is open and understanding on both sides then then it's not you know yeah we were saying before before recording you know i one of my one of the tools I've been working on through my DBT group that i that I'm a part of is is you know mindful language and one of the things is is recognizing good bad and instead calling it like effective ineffective to just remove that judgment you know because like you know, from my perspective, listening to you is that it's like you, you're, go you're living your life and you're doing a lot, you know? And like, I can imagine calling this person and saying like, Oh, Hey, we'll always be friends. So like, it's okay. I fucked you over. Like, it's okay that I promised I'd call you and that I didn't, but we'll always be friends.
00:27:12
Speaker
You know, like I just, that'd be so shitty. Yeah. But it's also, that's not the same situation, right? You know, because you're using this person. you I know, but no like, imagine that was an excuse to just like, yeah like, Oh, it's okay. We'll always be friends. Like,
00:27:26
Speaker
And that's the negotiation part. That's what I mean, right? That's the that's the like, you know, and and trusting that the other person is an adult and is able to make their choices. And if they are hurt, they get to communicate that and they get to say, hey, you suck.
00:27:39
Speaker
you don't You don't have to tell yourself you suck before they have, you know?
00:27:46
Speaker
You know, being nice to yourself, right?
00:27:54
Speaker
What is your favorite film?
00:28:01
Speaker
That's such a fun question. I love that. It It is. You know, okay, I'm going to give you the full scale. I'm just going to go like... unmasked ADHD answer and I'm instead of just giving you like a quick little because I could just say Jurassic Park easy no problem oh yes we just had that Jurassic Park episode yeah yeah right right you know um but it's like the thing about what I love about questions like that like what's your favorite thing what's your you know is that it's like it it brings with it for me personally I'm somebody who I do tend to try to avoid like ranking stuff I try really hard to be like to not do like this is the best thing and it's
00:28:39
Speaker
You don't like it. You're wrong. You know, um something I was always trying to teach my students back in the day was always to say, instead of saying like, ah you know, this was a good play, this is a bad play, but to instead be like, well, this resonated with me, this didn't, you know, um and it's the same way that like, you know, i could hate,
00:28:59
Speaker
a certain music. I mean, there's very little music that I don't like. So it's maybe a bad example, but like, you know, someone could say like, oh, I hate country or whatever. And it's like, no, you just haven't heard the right country song. You know, that kind of that that music isn't bad. It's just not for you. Right.
00:29:12
Speaker
um So whenever I think about like my favorite things, I tend to more run with like what's been and what's been kind of resonating with me lately and what I've been enjoying lately um so yeah like I say Jurassic Park is the is the movie that I could just go back to anytime every time no matter what but um recently i have been back on a kick I watched I watched the Signs of the Lambs three times this month it's like I don't know there's something wrong with me because I find that movie bizarrely
00:29:45
Speaker
the only word that comes to mind is comforting. Like it's like, it's like, it's like a, I can just come back to it and just enjoy it. You know? Um, Did you ever hear that song? It rubs the lotion on its skin.
00:29:59
Speaker
No.
Power of Clowning
00:30:00
Speaker
gets the hose again. um I have to. puts the lotion in the basket. It puts the lotion in the basket.
00:30:10
Speaker
Is this just somebody else singing the lyrics? or yeah yeah yeah Yeah, it's just like a song. I am writing this down because I have to listen to this afterwards. I'm going to, and for listeners, but I was going to say for listeners, I'm going to put it in the show notes.
00:30:26
Speaker
ah So, so we can all enjoy it together because that's fucking incredible. It puts the lotion in the basket. It puts the fucking lotion in the basket. Whatever. ah so like You know, I obviously I recognize that the the messaging in the movie is problematic for for for the trans community. And at the same time, too, um that scene is what made me love Goodbye Horses for the rest of my life.
00:30:53
Speaker
Like that's that song just like is in my bones. And I love it. And I love that scene. And I love it. Would you fuck me? I mean, it's it's really true, though. It's really dated and really yeah like some things about it that are really kind of awful. And same time, like.
00:31:08
Speaker
it's very kind of sticks with you. Like, you know, just the way it's shot and, and the, the, the lighting and certain like weird sort of spooky sounds and stuff. Like, yeah it's cool. Like, you know, you can kind of rock with it.
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, also like Jodie Foster is iconic, you know? Yeah, totally. Good old Clarice. um How about you? What's your, do you have a, do you have ah a top, ah do you have a go-to? Do you have one that you're, that's, that's sticking out lately?
00:31:41
Speaker
um Honestly, I think my favorite movie right now is Eyes Without a Face, Les Jeussons Visages. I don't know this one. It is really, really fucking great.
00:31:55
Speaker
I'm assuming French. or film from the from It's French. it's comes It came out in like 1965, 1963. Okay. okay It is basically... I'll tell you why love it.
00:32:09
Speaker
Please.
00:32:12
Speaker
It is so French to me, this film.
00:32:18
Speaker
There's this terrible, mad scientist... He's obsessed with like, you know, ah plastic surgery and like bla breaking records and like making innovative science with like recovering people from like being mangled in like horrible ways.
00:32:36
Speaker
And, you know, he's winning awards and everything. And he's a he is this daughter who he wants to fix her face and she has to wear this mask.
00:32:49
Speaker
And he keeps experimenting on her to fix her face. And these girls go missing from Paris and they're like, oh no, where are they going? Right? Fuck yeah. And she is so...
00:33:02
Speaker
so sad in her delicate little face, like a blank face, a mask that's like a totally no expression. so the whole time she's like, like really beautiful and really special.
00:33:18
Speaker
And he loves her. Like he has this terrible, crazy scientist man. It's like holding his daughter and with love. And like, he says, like, don't be afraid. You know, like I, I know how to, I'm taking care of you. I know what I'm doing.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, this sounds fabulous. um i You know, it it it actually came up recently in ah in a podcast I listened to from the director. Her name is escaping me right now, but she just wrote and directed The Substance.
00:33:46
Speaker
um Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's French, too. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You should watch it. Like, and I love that. Like, and that's my Instagram. Like, I'm always kind of, if you follow me on there, you always see me kind of going off on my bullshit ah about French film or about, about just this one movie in general?
00:34:05
Speaker
always share all this, like, you know, shit.
00:34:09
Speaker
Don't put that in the podcast that I do that. embarrassing i just outed myself. I'll cut that. I'll cut the Instagram code code. let me mark the time let me mark the time 3 32 3 33 um um yeah french film is is so fascinating to me though um um one of the things that the the director of the substance brought up was that she she films in america because the french audiences don't tend to enjoy um
00:34:40
Speaker
or so she says they don't tend to enjoy a genre films um they're much more invested in like the kind of rooted the sort of human stories and so stories like the substance are don't necessarily play very well in in america or excuse me in france um which i find so fascinating because i've you know the french movies i see are always like i maybe it's because they're exported i don't know but like they tend to be so genre heavy and they tend to be like I'm sure it feels that way it's French, right? Like it feels that because it's it's like foreign language. Like, you know. Exactly.
00:35:15
Speaker
So, yeah. But that's the thing. Like Amelie and like, you know, yeah um whatever this like and Tintin and whatever. Like, you know, it's it's not it's not a it's not a cliche really. It just is what it is.
00:35:31
Speaker
Yeah. Whereas here it's like, it's in its own little weird box because of. Yeah. And you can kind of like it or not. Like, it's kind of like, Oh, Tintin, I hate that show. Like, or you go like, Oh, French, you must love Tintin and fucking the P2 Prince. Like, you know, it's just like, that's kind of rude. Right. To do that.
00:35:49
Speaker
But like, yeah. Oh my God, though. Actually, speaking of, I just reread The the Little Prince for the first time like since I was a kid. I just reread it this year, and it's fucking incredible.
00:36:01
Speaker
Oh my God. Do you have a tattoo? Yeah. oh I love that. It's a sheep. Oh, so cute. um Very, very, very helpful visual for for the audio platform. ah for For listeners, Amy has a little petit prince sheep on her ankle. And I did a kind of clown thing.
00:36:24
Speaker
Tell them about, i did I did a kind of clown move. and that was very It was very, you know, it it had that very practice technique of looking looking clumsy while being you entirely in control, right?
00:36:38
Speaker
Gorgeous pratfall. I got invited to do a cabaret a couple months ago. My friend was like, hey, do you want to co-host this show with me? And so i I did a red-nosed outfit, whole thing, clown show again for the first time.
00:36:52
Speaker
It was totally fun. Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. Clowning in general is something that ive just I have such a fucking admiration for. And i i've never I've never done any classes. I've never done anything. i know I know a couple of people who have gone...
00:37:08
Speaker
you know quite deep into it you're're yourself in that mix. and i just yeah I have such an admiration admiration for it, and i I love it so much. and i just like I don't even know where I would start. i feel one It almost feels like... To me, in my brain, I link clown clowning with pro wrestling, which are two things that I wish I had tried when I was 20, and now I feel like too old.
00:37:29
Speaker
you know
00:37:34
Speaker
but But can you... Do you think... can you get into it when you're an old person? Oh yeah, I think so. I mean, to be a clown is to have a fun, to pretend, to have a pleasure, to be an idiot, to kind of be, you know, to, to be a clown is to be, you know, excited. Like maybe they don't recognize me. Maybe the audience, like, you know, they think I'm really Hamlet, you know, I'm going to trick them, you know?
00:38:03
Speaker
yeah, You have a plastic poo, like Philippe, like my teacher would say, like my teacher would say, he said, the clown, he goes to a party in his pocket, plastic poo.
00:38:22
Speaker
It's perfect. The whole time he's oh having fun, but he knows he'll all and at any moment.
00:38:33
Speaker
You can pull it out. The party with the plastic spoon. And that's, you know, that's true power right there. That is the clown. Okay. So that is, this
Community and Identity
00:38:45
Speaker
is the path that I walk as a clown in the world.
00:38:49
Speaker
Downtown clown. She's not messing around.
00:38:54
Speaker
But that is, i mean, that's one of the things that I find so interesting about, like, I mean, there's so many different examples in in art and just life in general, but it's this idea of like, it's it's it's so often the the the opposite thing that holds the true, you know, control or the true power.
00:39:12
Speaker
um You know, the idea that like, you know, Vulnerability is the truest expression of like of like human power. you know It's not like muscles or guns or, you know it's like it's like how authentically vulnerable can you be? That's the true control of the self.
00:39:28
Speaker
you know And in the same way that like in a sort of ah a social dynamic, the fool is often seen as like, oh, I wouldn't wanna be there, but it's like, they hold the truest like potential control of the room in so many ways.
00:39:42
Speaker
you know and and I think that leads to questions of like, I guess, like what, what even is control and what is power, you know, but, but well that's I think to like, you know, clowns, like ah they are very powerful. I think that's why they're sort of demonized a little bit in culture. I think there's sort of like, you know, outcasts, you know, and if you expand your definition of a clown to include, you know, Buffon and like certain types of like, you know, archetypal characters, even like Comedia,
00:40:11
Speaker
you know, um and working in that kind of style with play, like, you know, where there's really just play-based character work, you know, and going, and then, you know, also in in satire and in things like that.
00:40:24
Speaker
um So, you know, if you look at specifically the Buffon, like, these are nasty clowns. They come from the swamp. Like, they're, you know, people are supposed to be created in God's image, like in medieval Europe. Like, you know, human beings are created in God's image. So if you're not in God's image, you're banished from,
00:40:41
Speaker
you know, society and you live in this swamp and you get to kind of do whatever you want. You can like, you're heeding, like they're heathens. They fuck, they fucking eat. Like they, God doesn't give a shit about them. They're disgusting. They're deformed yeah and they can speak the truth. Right. And they come send upon the town and they lock up all the actors and they, once a year they put on a show.
00:41:04
Speaker
my God. It sounds like paradise. And for them, the best king The best outcome is the king, when he sees the show, he recognizes himself and instantly he dies from laughter.
00:41:18
Speaker
oh So these are nasty creatures, but they're clowns too. So, you know, they can scare the shit out of you too. Like, you know, they kind of kind of hit the other nerve and I struggle with that. Like, you know, I have embarrassed myself. Like I have said really like totally rude things. Like I get, ah I have like fucked over. Like I've, I'm socially fucked up sometimes as a clown.
00:41:39
Speaker
Sure, yeah.
00:41:42
Speaker
But you're allowed to be.
00:41:46
Speaker
Maybe, I don't know. You're, you know.
00:41:56
Speaker
That leads me really nicely into this, the the next piece of the the friendship community equation thing. You know, this idea of, I think i think community for me has has become very, ah I don't know what the right word for it is. It overlaps with the question of like, it overlaps with questions of culture. It overlaps with questions of society. It overlaps with, you know, just social interactions.
00:42:18
Speaker
um and And again, it's one of those terms that, you know, the more I look at it, that it's like a really simple word, but the more I look at it, the more broad, the more vast, the more complicated it becomes.
00:42:30
Speaker
um And I'm really curious in your and your experience, from your perspective, what does, you know, first of all, what is community to you? and And then sort of building off of that, like, how do you participate within community? Or or or how how would you like to participate within community?
00:42:52
Speaker
Well, I think that um
00:42:57
Speaker
A community is essentially
00:43:04
Speaker
a group of people with something in common. You know, your communities, your neighborhood, your work, your sexual orientation, your gender, you know, your age, whatever.
00:43:20
Speaker
These things kind of interact. And what I like to do in my life to show up and be a part of the many communities that I belong to in different contexts and also with different, um, perhaps different hats on, you know, professionally, personally, whatever.
00:43:46
Speaker
um
00:43:49
Speaker
sometimes we're part of communities that don't always make us feel good. You know, we could be part of like extended families with ah parents and uncles that we don't like to see or in-laws or our own families, whatever, or other things like bosses that we don't like, you know, jobs that we don't want to go to all these things.
00:44:07
Speaker
Right. yeah um How I like to show up and be part of this community, this life um is to really just,
00:44:20
Speaker
help people feel seen, help people feel supported and try to
Hope and Interconnectedness
00:44:25
Speaker
make things
00:44:28
Speaker
have an impact, whatever it is we're doing, you know, like let's just leave it all on the floor, rock this. Like, you know, if you have a self tape to do, like, you know, bring the noise, like put it all down here.
00:44:43
Speaker
ah go to this open mic, you know, whatever, do this clown shit. I was supposed to do this burlesque class and I had to change it because of work, but I was going to do this whole burlesque journey this time, this year, this fall. And maybe I should have done.
00:45:03
Speaker
i mean, you're still alive. You could still, you know, burlesque will always be there, right? Yeah, taking off the gloves. Yeah. said I was so bad and when I was in, when I was trying to be a clown, like every single time Goliere would be like, you're unfuckable, you're horrible, you're so ugly, you're so boring.
00:45:23
Speaker
And I just trying to be fuckable, but I wasn't like, he was like, you have a fucking mongole. Like, he'd be like, you're.
00:45:32
Speaker
What a thing to yell at a student. You're unfuckable. Unfuckable. Unfuckable woman from Canada.
00:45:42
Speaker
Wow, iconic sentence. And I was trying to be Ophelia too. I was like doing this and he says, hello, you see these actor you think definitely they fuck. have
00:45:54
Speaker
Or he says, oh, you think ah perhaps one of them in a deep coma, the other one's deeply drunk.
00:46:04
Speaker
i feel like I feel like as like as like a chiron, as like a you know CNN talking head to be the the most unfuckable woman in Canada, that's like a pretty fucking top tier title.
00:46:18
Speaker
We called this other girl the virgin from Canada. I don't know she was a virgin. but Yeah. Oh, fuck. Brutal. Brutal. oh Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:29
Speaker
um My Goliath stories are great, and I've never been invited onto a podcast to to speak at all. To share them, Yeah. Well, you know, one thing that I think that's really interesting that you're tapping into is this idea that community – doesn't equate safety, you know? And, and, and I think that that's something that, um you know, I, I, I personally recognize, but I don't know is always evocative in the term.
00:46:54
Speaker
I think often in the conversation, when we talk about communities, it's with the intention of implying a safety net. And I, I, in my experience, communities are actually, you know, deeply unsafe in a lot of ways. You have to actively create the safety for yourself first, you know?
00:47:10
Speaker
um ah And I, and I, ah yeah I don't know. I just find that an interesting kind of paradigm again of this idea of like that the networks that we build come with the intention of security, but they don't always build it inherently. Right.
00:47:29
Speaker
I mean, really love like so this other weird thing about me is that I think I have a little bit of an issue with like authority. And that was really tough for me when I was working with Philippe and like becoming a clown. But then now I feel like I really learned what it means for me or what it kind of brings out in me, the good and the bad, the dragon within yeah playing with that game of like, I fucking hate this asshole. And he can't tell me what to do. don't want to listen to him, you know? um
00:48:01
Speaker
But like working in the NDP and like, helping people fight for better things yeah and learning from different activists and organizing and, and honestly in labor, the organizing and the, the community, um,
00:48:29
Speaker
kind of enterprise that it takes to like really get everybody, you know, all these people, you have to talk to them all, you know, like if, if all of a sudden something happens, like a natural disaster, like, guess what? My community is every single person that lives within two blocks of my house.
00:48:47
Speaker
yeah We all have to help each other out. Like whatever benefits everybody else, you know, that's kind of how you're going to look at it. But are you looking at like, you know, the, the educated white community.
00:48:59
Speaker
am I part of that? Like, what does that mean? You know, like, and also because I'm suddenly sharing a community with my neighbor, doesn't mean that I automatically belong to whatever it is they identify with.
00:49:11
Speaker
You know, I'm not a nurse. I'm not a I'm not a racialized person. You know, I'm not an, I'm not a newcomer. I'm not a parent. I'm not a queer person, you know, like whatever. So we're not, it's not like porous in that way. Like we intersect, but we're not,
00:49:28
Speaker
poru We're not going to mold into one big happy community.
00:49:38
Speaker
We're going to circle back to one last thing. um ah My last, but the last question that I've been um implementing this season is, you know,
00:49:50
Speaker
Shit's dark lately. You know, ah ah things are scary. We are recording this just before the American election. um There's been a series of of provincial elections across Canada that have ah been cementing shitheads in power across the board. And it's just, um been it's been a rough couple of years. and And one thing that I have been focusing on for myself, you know, we were talking about this before, about the idea of like,
00:50:19
Speaker
There is negativity in the world and it's not about ignoring it. It's about saying it's there. And right now I'm going to look over here just for the moment. I'm going to look at something positive.
00:50:30
Speaker
And I'm curious from in in your experience, what is something that is giving you hope for the coming days, the coming? You know, it it doesn't have to be, you know, 10 years from now, just like what's something that you're holding on to these days that's giving you hope to to kind of keep going?
00:50:50
Speaker
Um,
00:50:53
Speaker
well, I think that honesty is the highest level of kind of respect and being grounded in, you know, what you believe to be true for yourself is never wrong.
00:51:13
Speaker
So I'm hopeful that more people will understand what, they really want and the kind of world that they really think that they should have and the kinds of things that they have in common. Like, you know, for example, how our communities kind of overlap and intersect and, um, benefit and we, but we grow and gain more, i think collective over collectively than we do in smaller chunks, you know, fragments of society.
00:51:46
Speaker
succeeding on their own for their own in their own interest solely primarily you know um so what gives me hope these days my nephew who lives in montreal he's 20 he's all grown up and he's doing his thing and He texts me back like, you know, when he if he'll text me back, he'll be like, Oh, I'm having a great day. And like, I'm glad you checked in, like, love you and stuff. And like, he means it.
00:52:19
Speaker
And that gives me hope because, you know, he's
00:52:26
Speaker
special he's young and he he's so smart and he's like got it together and it's like we all kind of owe it to him and his friends and every single person like all of our kind of like uh youth you know he's 20 he's not even a youth like you know there's people out there who are seven eight you know like i don't think we i think we kind of owe it to them not to walk around being like the whole world's fucked and like everything's gonna be crazy because like you know um we don't know that.
00:52:58
Speaker
um But also it's ah it's important to be honest about how like we have felt let down and we're scared because, you know, we don't think people are listening to us. Like, you know, there's been like a lot of like,
00:53:11
Speaker
Times where, you know, people have denied our reality, which is gaslighting, which I think young folks understand a lot. And you're hearing a lot of people talking about that and that experience. Right.
00:53:25
Speaker
So, you know, yeah, like keep your eyes on the prize. But like. They deserve like. To have just as much. um freedom to fail, chances to to hope and to have their hearts broken and to and to be disappointed as we had.
Spontaneity in Friendships
00:53:43
Speaker
Like we're not actually saving doing anybody any favors by saying don't bother. Really true. Yeah.
00:53:52
Speaker
I mean, I'm, I'm saying, keep going. Sorry. I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm just doing my, my ADHD vocal confirmations, but like, cause I'm, I'm right on board with that. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that gives me hope and you know, other people like, um, yeah, like, you know, being my relationship gives me hope. Like I feel very happy to be in my relationship and, um, I feel like, uh,
00:54:23
Speaker
Other people's success, you know, like my partner's success um gives me a lot of I feel so happy. I'm just like so proud. And it makes me really delightful that, you know, when things go well for them and also for, you know, like it's like my nephew to like anybody who I love, like when there's things going on for them, like my friend in Ottawa has a baby. hmm.
00:54:46
Speaker
And like, it's so fucking cool for her yeah She rocks that shit and she's like totally in her light and she's like really, really in excited about it and it's great. And I'm like, I get so um much energy from just being like happy and delighting in these in people's successes and the the things that they get.
00:55:08
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Um, but it's not easy to do that for everybody. It's not like I feel that way about everybody. I'm not like, Oh, good for her. Like, you know, if someone's like a liberal and they get like a cool job, that's not in the liberal party anymore. anymore I'm like,
00:55:28
Speaker
Yup, yup, yup. It's an interesting, like, you know, the idea that it's like someone's success doesn't take anything away from you, right? Like, we've been conditioned to believe that it's like this, like, zero-sum game where it's like, your success is my loss, and it's not.
00:55:45
Speaker
It's like everybody gets to succeed if they you know if they want to. you know and And someone else's succeeds success takes nothing away from me. if If anything, it builds me up because it's like, oh, that means it's possible.
00:55:56
Speaker
that means you you know That means anybody could do it. That's great, right? Yeah, I mean, i just don't I just don't feel like I was necessarily raised to, and it's not like a moral judgment, like I'm not saying like, oh, you know, we're better than this or anything like that. But I feel like in my my household, like the people who brought me up, like they valued like kind of um ah having, being like being more risk-taking and being more like um kind of committed to what you're doing rather than being like successful overall.
00:56:31
Speaker
You know, like, I think my parents would have been like, why didn't you try harder? Why didn't you care more about this? But not like, oh, you got an F? Well, you should just done perfect.
00:56:44
Speaker
Right. You know? Yeah. I mean, I think that's i think that's a better, ah and I think that's a great take. I think that's a better perspective on things is like, just try, you know?
00:56:57
Speaker
It's interesting, though. People suffer. Yeah. Yeah. People are very afraid to like make mistakes. Fuck God, though. It's that thing. I mean, I think about that all the time about the idea of like um the fear of failure is the thing that keeps us from trying.
00:57:12
Speaker
Right. Because it's like, well, what if we you know, what if we fail? And it's like, well, yeah, you could fail at anything. You could fail at breathing right now. You know, ah a it's not you know, the fear of failure isn't isn't an excuse because because to not do it is is to guarantee failure.
00:57:31
Speaker
Well, it's just so it's just so hard. And like, you know, sometimes like, I feel like I fight with people not meaning to be in like mean fights. But like, you know, we just kind of disagree. There's like a weird kind of disagreement.
00:57:44
Speaker
um
00:57:48
Speaker
Because
00:57:52
Speaker
i don't know, I forgot what you were saying. What did you say?
00:57:57
Speaker
The idea of the field of fear of failure to like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. sure Yeah. Being, being afraid to fail and making it, you know, stop you from trying like at the end of the day, like
00:58:11
Speaker
you have to be able to reevaluate your definition of success on the fly. Cause you're not always going to be, ah feeling great and successful in every context.
00:58:26
Speaker
You know, you can have every single thing that you wanted and still have like poor health. You know, you can have the exact career that you want and then you're stricken with some other illness and you have maybe no way, no way to pay for that because, you know, you didn't think about that when you had the time whatever, you know.
00:58:45
Speaker
um So ultimately, i don't think it serves you to be fixated on an idea of success or a definition of success or what feels like success or whatever.
00:58:56
Speaker
you know, being afraid to fail, you can just turn it into a success. Failure is not an option, you know? Like, what does that mean? Like, what do ah what do I fail? I embarrass myself.
00:59:10
Speaker
Oh, you know, i ah try something, it doesn't work, you know? i get, you know, fired from my job. I have to find another job. Like, that's a very different kind of problem than like, oh, I try to joke out or I thought I would be funny on James's thing and, you know,
00:59:26
Speaker
It turns out I wasn't, you know? Yeah. I mean, well, you didn't fail at that one, you know? So, so that that that, that, that, that's helpful. Right. You know? Well, the other thing as a clown, it's like, you always have to think like that the, the, the lion tamer has been eaten you have to save the show.
00:59:46
Speaker
Like your, every minute of your time is like, you're ready to be charming. And if something's not working, you never have to do it again. Like it's just, you're just going.
00:59:59
Speaker
Yeah. So that's like so fun to have that ah instinct.
01:00:08
Speaker
Amy, you're amazing. Thank you so much. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm clucking the time. And I, I, I, I feel like I've, I've held you so hostage here for, for.
01:00:19
Speaker
Oh yeah. it's been long Well, thanks so much for having me as a guest. I hope it was okay. Oh, my God. this is No, Amy, this was amazing. And i I want to say thank you. Like, i've got I've got one last question I want to ask you before we wrap up. I always love to i love to leave listeners on, like, a little actionable step from from the guests.
01:00:36
Speaker
But oh yeah before i before I do that, you know, I do want to say, like, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me and share your stories. And, like, I, i you know, i had a little...
01:00:49
Speaker
My ADHD, one of its quirks is that like I can sort of be in multiple places at once. um And you know as we were talking, I was having this this feeling in the back of my mind of like recognizing that this...
01:01:05
Speaker
this I don't even think this is maybe like this is the longest you and I have ever sat and talked. And it's been an absolute pleasure. It's just been such a joy that like you're you just you bring such a.
01:01:19
Speaker
ah revitalizing flavor with you. And I just really, I just really, you know, this last hour really meant a lot to me and it and it was really, really, yeah. You you know, i just, um yeah there's something, there's something that this show has kind of in um incidentally given me, which is this gift to like,
01:01:44
Speaker
re-meet all the people from my life and to like get to like re-experience them in this new light and in this new context and um i really cherish it i'm really grateful for it and and it was um yeah it was really it was just really wonderful to to kind of get to know you again Wow. Yeah, I feel no, I honestly feel so, so great. And I'm really I feel really thankful. And I definitely would have felt like, you know, maybe you we're like too cool to ever have me on your podcast. So like, you know, it was very like kind of cool and humbling to be invited to come and yeah wanted it to be good. So thank you you and your time. Like, I mean, it's great to talk to you. Like, I wish.
01:02:21
Speaker
you were, we could talk more, you know, like we should, like, we should talk more. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to make it out to Toronto again. We'll figure all that out. um You know, I'll infect everyone with COVID except me. So I was like fighting Ryan. Cause he was like, I have COVID you can't come over. And i was like, I don't care.
01:02:39
Speaker
I want to see What are you doing? Like, and we would fight like, Oh, my God. i I still feel so much embarrassment about that. The fact that I like, you know, like for listeners, the context of that story is that I might have talked about it on the show before. But like I we had bought tickets to My Chemical Romance in 2019.
01:02:56
Speaker
And then the pandemic hit. They pushed the show back three times, it two or three times. And it was finally happening. It was in Toronto. I got my ticket. we were I showed up. I was staying at my friend Riel and Jamie's.
01:03:10
Speaker
and And Brian was going to be coming with us too. All of us. I land. And I was like, oh, I'm like, I've got like a little tickle in my throat. i don't know. It's fine. I must have just not slept well. And the next morning, i test positive for COVID.
01:03:23
Speaker
And then the next morning, everyone else tests positive for COVID. And so we all missed the show and instead spent the week in Riel and Jamie's basement playing Fortnite. And, you know, it ruled, but it also was like,
01:03:35
Speaker
um um yeah, it was just, it was, um but yeah, it was just, ah it was, ah it was a whole, it was a whole thing. It was a whole fiasco. And yeah, I became Typhoid Jimmy.
01:03:47
Speaker
And I don't know if I'll ever live that one down, but yeah, Amy, one last question. um As I mentioned, I love to leave listeners on a bit of an actionable step that they can try out this week if they want to kind of implement something in their life. So what is one thing listeners could try to do in their day to day life to be a more effective friend to their to themselves or to their community?
01:04:21
Speaker
I think we should all try and embrace like the quick phone call or the like thinking of you message or the like, you know, poke, like just like a nudge, you know, like people are very preoccupied with trying to make time and schedule everything. Like I feel like working from home and being in this weird like kind of pandemic, like our social socially, we're all very like trying to be structured and it's fine for making time for people because I know that in certain relationships, you know, it kind of really makes a difference that like, you know, we block out, like, you know, I'm not checking my phone. I'm not working. I'm not like ah in the car whatever.
01:05:10
Speaker
You know, I have a friend who always calls me when she's in the car and I'm like, you know, you want to talk to me when you're in the car, but I'm not really, you have nothing to talk to. You know what I mean Yep. Yep.
01:05:21
Speaker
But um yeah, we should just be more um and more inclined to do that. Like, even if we don't maybe have time to like actually hang out or if you're just thinking about someone, like I'm thinking about someone right now that I like really should check in with.
01:05:39
Speaker
I just should. I haven't in a few weeks and I miss them. Yeah. But I don't want the anxiety of them trying to make plans to like make me avoid texting them all together.
01:05:50
Speaker
Right. Right. But it is that idea of the flexibility. Right. You know, like it comes back to what you're saying before, like just like being, you know, yeah, just being flexible. You know, it's it's important to have plans. I agree. But it's also important that they don't be, you know, steel bars, you know, like that they still have some give.
01:06:07
Speaker
right I don't want people to interact with me as if I'm demanding of them, like, you know, their full time and attention. Like I'm only trying to be part of their life for like a supportive purpose. yeah Yeah. Yeah. I mean, unless it's like, you know there's other contexts in which I don't really care, but like, you know,
01:06:25
Speaker
Big time. Big time. um Is there is there anywhere ah you would like listeners to find you anywhere? do you want to do you want to be anonymous?
Call to Action for Social Justice
01:06:36
Speaker
Do you want to like how how would you like listeners to follow you from here?
01:06:40
Speaker
ah Honestly, I didn't think about it, but I guess you can follow me on LinkedIn. Fuck yeah. This might be the first ever LinkedIn podcast. plug all right fuck yeah yeah find me on linkedin um i share some stuff on there um there's uh uh i'll give one plug if i might instead of me but um just go on uh go online look up the black class action ah lawsuit against the federal government
01:07:14
Speaker
and just check out what they're doing. They've recently gotten a lot of really good ah ah progress with their organization. Donate, you know support this, help people amplify their work because there's people there that have put a lot on the line to fight for justice for these workers. And it's really incredible how they've organized and what people have honestly been denied. Like 26 years of service no promotion, federal government, retiring with nothing like terrible stuff.
01:07:48
Speaker
Well, that is going in the show notes immediately. So listeners, yeah. Do check that out. Thank you for bringing that to my attention there, Amy. Um, yeah, that'll be that you can read about it a bit if you want. And if you like it, you can share it, but you don't have to.
01:08:00
Speaker
Yeah. hundred percent. No, that'll be in the show notes. No question. But, uh, one last time, Amy, thank you so much. Um, I, yeah, I, I appreciate your time. I appreciate your stories and I appreciate you, uh, coming on the show.
01:08:12
Speaker
Okay, see ya. Bye, baby.
01:08:29
Speaker
And that's it. Thank you one more time to Amy for coming on the show. It was such a pleasure to chat with her. And thank you also to her for her patience while I had my little brain runarounds before finally releasing this episode.
01:08:43
Speaker
On that note, actually, um there has been one update around the class action lawsuit that Amy brings up near the end of the episode. I've cited an article that gives an update on the status, but the the sort of summary of it is that it was dismissed ah due to being basically too broad.
01:09:04
Speaker
And the more I'm learning about this case, the more furious I'm becoming about that decision. I've included a couple resources within the show notes for you to learn more and try to get involved, try to raise some awareness about what's going on with this. And yeah, let's ah let not let that stand.
01:09:23
Speaker
But that's going to do it for me this week. Thank you so much for listening. And I really hope to catch you back here next week. But hey, as always, I'm not going to worry about that. And neither should you, because that is then and this is now.
01:09:34
Speaker
So for now, I'll just say I love you and I wish you well. Fun and safety, sweeties.