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The Monkey Made Me Do It (with special guest Trevor Hinton)
1 Plays4 minutes ago
In this very special episode of Friendless, host James Avramenko reconnects with his long-time friend and former theater colleague, Trevor Hinton. Despite the years and distance apart, their profound conversation delves into themes of vulnerability, artistic expression, and the raw authenticity that stems from truly seeing each other. They discuss the balance between the metaphysical and material worlds, the importance of community, and how anger and confidence can mold personal growth. The episode wraps up with a focus on the nuances of friendship, the importance of checking in on strong friends, and the value of showing up authentically in our relationships.
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Transcript
Introduction and Reconnection with Trevor Hinton
00:00:08
Speaker
Well hey there sweet peas! Welcome back to Friendless! I'm your host James Avramenko and today I am so excited to be sitting down with the one, the only, Trevor Hinton.
00:00:19
Speaker
Trevor is an actor, a father, a philosopher, and someone who admittedly i was more than a little terrified of for most of the time I've known him. We take a deep look into vulnerability, artistic expression, and the raw authenticity that comes from truly seeing each other.
00:00:35
Speaker
It was incredible reconnecting with Trevor, and you're gonna love this one. So lean back, get comfy, set your phone at a reasonable level, and enjoy my interview with Trevor Hinton here on Friendless.
Past Connections and Social Media Illusions
00:00:47
Speaker
This week, I have a long, long lost friend from the the the Halcyon days, as I've described them in the past, of UVic. A man who, admittedly, I spent a lot of my my ah school years terrified of.
00:01:04
Speaker
ah ah Which I'm sure will we'll get into as the conversation goes. But with me today, the man, the legend, Trevor Hinton. Hello. Hello.
00:01:16
Speaker
but this is silly this is ah This is a long time coming. you know ah this has been I've been trying to get you on the show for, is it two years now that we've been we've been playing Telephone Tag? Likely. Time just flies. So yes, it's probably two years.
00:01:34
Speaker
Unbelievable. um And I don't know when the last I guess the last time we saw each other would have been when you swung through Saskatoon years ago. um But before then, really not since university. It's been pushing on 15 years. It's true. But with the the social media world, i feel like I've seen plenty of you. But but it's not true.
00:01:56
Speaker
Not not in reality.
Evolution of Online Personas
00:01:58
Speaker
And that's, you know, that's one of those funny things. You know, um I always feel really weird about what what, you know, I heard once it described um no one's a bigger stranger than me online three years ago.
00:02:11
Speaker
You know, like in terms of the idea of like, you look back on what you posted and what you said and how you talked and all these things, and it just feels alien to you. It's like yeah unrecognizable. And I feel like, you know, over the years of doing this show, um I've put out such a cornucopia of,
00:02:27
Speaker
my my mental health journey and my ups and my downs. And it's and it's weird to think that people are have this sort of narrative. I'd be really curious, what is what is the outside narrative of of James Zavromenko from the outside perspective?
00:02:40
Speaker
Am I doing okay? Oh, man. Well, I think you're, ah from what I've observed and my own take on it, I think it's wonderful. I think i think what you're that you're sharing...
00:02:56
Speaker
with people that you know to some degree, right? the The very human, very common, of course, particular to you, but also, you know, at the thing which with vulnerable pain and difficulty is that it it is so specific to you and your experience, but it is so common yes that it's completely
Universal Pain and Vulnerability
00:03:21
Speaker
understandable. And so, ah honestly, when I've...
00:03:25
Speaker
observed some of through what you've written and and shared, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. And it makes me think about my experience of whatever yeah that is or like, oh wow, and my curiosity. If it's something I don't know about, yeah then it's like, well, because I have connected with so much of what you said otherwise, i mean, of course, that is also available. And I wonder what that is and what that's like. And, you know, and it makes me think.
00:03:51
Speaker
And then it comes up somewhere else, right? Of course, because as soon as something's on your radar, it shows up. that yeah because you Because you notice.
00:04:02
Speaker
yeah Yeah, you can name it. And therefore, it exists suddenly. Yeah. yeah I love that. I love that. That's really reassuring because I definitely feel like sometimes I'm... i'm i'm ah i'm ah I'm an overshare, you know?
00:04:14
Speaker
ah Yeah, me too. but but you Okay, but here, let's pump the brakes. This is interview isn't about me. This is about you. ah let's Let's get things started with with ah the the question I always ask all my guests at the beginning. um Put very simply, Trevor Hinton, who the fuck are you?
00:04:33
Speaker
I am a strange alien. And I completely love that and accept that. um i Well, I'm just... do I'm a dude doing doing the human experience and I, and, uh, uh, fallibly.
00:04:49
Speaker
And, I, I get to be a part of this thing. That sounds so so philosophical because really, but that's really what it is. It's just like, um, I'm just, uh, I'm a dad.
00:05:02
Speaker
Uh, and that's amazing. Uh, I try to be a good friend and I try to be, a responsible man in the world. yeah And and i i I like getting in the way of bullshit yeah when it comes my way. And I try not to shrink from that.
00:05:26
Speaker
yeah um ah You know, to again, various degrees of success. Hey, it's all our first
From Medicine to Acting: Trevor's Journey
00:05:34
Speaker
try, you know? yeah Yeah, maybe. Yeah. And I try to be a good you know a good neighbor and a good ah good whatever.
00:05:42
Speaker
and And to explore. Yeah. so So, you know, as I as i ah briefly touched on at the very beginning, and I'd like to i'd like to hear a lot ah more of, or as much as you'd like to share, you know, obviously we crossed over through theatre school. and And I'm really curious about, um ah first of all, are you still kind of involved in the theatre world? Are you still acting? Are you still part of that? Oh, theatre is my fickle mistress.
00:06:07
Speaker
And I love her. yeah yeah Dirty, dirty, dirty, wonderful, wonderful mistress she is. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. i mean I acting's my thing. So it's, you know.
00:06:19
Speaker
It's easy to wear ah lot of hats and too many hats. And I walked away from acting for a time and really it just felt like I was holding my breath. I can do lots of things.
00:06:30
Speaker
Sure. Right. And there's value in them. Yeah. And they're wonderful, but I'm not, the feedback is limited yeah and the ceiling is low as far, you know, in terms of what I want to do and i and and what I want out of life.
00:06:46
Speaker
Um, I just feel like I can never fill what but acting demands and what's possible.
00:06:57
Speaker
And it's also so easy at the same time. So it's about hard discipline hello and and focus and then just chilling the fuck out and getting out of the way. And that's a process that I can never, ever tire of.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah. I'm so, I'm really, I'm really relieved to know that you're still acting. Yeah. Because I wasn't, I wasn't totally sure. And, and, you know, um um I'm really curious. So one of the funny things, this is going to be a little, I think this is going to be a little bit of a circular conversation because there's things that like, I almost have to touch on and then go back.
00:07:28
Speaker
um But because, you know, you, you were this like towering presence yeah at UVic, you know, you were, you were so skilled and you were really intimidating. and And and and I know this wasn't like I know on reflection and and especially ah in speaking to you after how that was like such a a me problem in a lot of ways. You know what i mean? Like I was making myself intimidated by you.
00:07:54
Speaker
um And I remember the very last day like ah ah ah that you graduated the year you graduated. We were all hanging out at a friend of ours place and you told the story of why you went to theater school.
00:08:07
Speaker
And it was like the first time we'd ever really had like a long in-depth conversation. And I remember just being like, oh fuck, I just missed out on three years of like this fascinating man. And now he's gone.
00:08:19
Speaker
you know um and and and i'd be really curious if you would would tell you know the the 15 years later version of of you know what got you into acting and what brought you to how did you end up at uvec oh sure ah okay um Well, ah but this whatever there there are many little tributaries from why and how, but ah I was pursuing other things. I was really, i was going into medicine was the idea and it was going fine.
00:09:00
Speaker
um But I was kind of bored because in the classroom settings, it was, um it's just, facts and memorizing those facts and then giving them back.
00:09:15
Speaker
And fine. I mean, that's that's often what a classroom setting can be. I mean, these days it sure is. But actually, I don't
Material vs. Spiritual Realms
00:09:23
Speaker
even know what they're like these days. I'm intimidated by these days. you have to have so many toys to go to a basic class.
00:09:30
Speaker
I never even used a notebook. I didn't write a, haven't written a note since high school. I've done eight years of university anyway, but now you need all these gadgets just to show up the fucking class. Pardon my language. okay. Off track.
00:09:43
Speaker
Lay it in. Lay it in. I'm doing that. I have friends who I was in high school with who were acting. I noticed i was feeling jealous about what they're doing. And these are friends I have deep respect for, yeah who are extremely intelligent, passionate, able, with with social fluidity fluidity, just coming out of every pore, right? So they could do anything.
00:10:06
Speaker
And they're doing this. And I'm like, well, that's nice. Oh, I could do that. you right yeah One day i you know I could do that. And then I'm doing my thing. I'm doing my thing. And then I'm like, what the fuck is going on? So I went traveling and I went and I was backpacking and all this stuff. And I had a moment of absolute clarity that is unshakable. So it was just like,
00:10:34
Speaker
hammered into my mind in one moment. And when that happens, you shut up and you do it. And it felt completely correct. And I was like, and as soon as I shared this, because to me, that was like, it was a revelation.
00:10:50
Speaker
And, and, ah and so as soon as I shared it with anybody that was close to me, they're like, Oh yeah, good. So I'm like, okay, well, i'll I'll go. And then I didn't know what an audition was. is I didn't know.
00:11:02
Speaker
I've never held a script really. I mean, other than like a high school play type thing. and yeah But I didn't even remember it was called a script.
00:11:11
Speaker
So went I went
Navigating Life's Challenges and Community
00:11:12
Speaker
out with my dear friend, Jay Hindle was at UVic at the time. And I'm like, well, I guess I know that place. So I'll try that. And just so I went and I auditioned and and it fits like a glove. Yeah, that's amazing. I love that. you know i When I hear stories about people who, who who you know like like yourself, who have these moments of just like utter confidence, right? you know um And maybe maybe it's not you know maybe it doesn't necessarily feel like confidence in the morning in the moment, but on reflection, it's like, just to have that clarity of mind of like, this is what I do next, right? You know? God.
00:11:49
Speaker
It was on a beach, I should tell you. I was on a beach. in Thailand when this moment arrived and I'm walking down the beach and what was it in Indonesia? Oh, it's Thailand.
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah. And there's a monkey in a tree and it's just me on this beach and this monkey. And I look up at at the monkey and the monkey and I make eye contact.
00:12:16
Speaker
And the freaking download happened in that instant. And I don't know how much the monkey had to do with it, but it was just, this is exactly how it happened. I was walking, I look up monkey eye contact information and suddenly my life changed.
00:12:32
Speaker
My direction changed. yeah and like, that's, that's insane. It's amazing. But it was perfectly clear, right? yeah And so what do you do? you you want you want to inspiration and and direction in in a in a package exactly as you've imagined it? Or do you take it as it comes and go? Well, I went, right? And that has been nothing but rewarding.
00:12:54
Speaker
Every... wonderful relationship that is currently really, not every, but most, um every important relationship in my life has come from that decision at that moment that was unexpected and a complete redirect.
00:13:11
Speaker
So, I mean, i love it. I was really hoping, i because I remember you telling the story of the monkey years ago, and I didn't i didn't want to prompt it. I was really hoping you were going tell it on the on the show, because I just, i love it. I love it.
00:13:22
Speaker
And I literally, i think about it all the time, because I'm just like, i i believe, you know, like, obviously, I believe it in the sense that, like, you know, I... why would you lie? But also i believe it in the deeper sense of like, I just think that's like those little moments of magic that sometimes come along, you know, like you just, you you gotta to buy in. And, and um I just think, yeah, I think that's what it is. I think it's just pure magic. And, you know, I'm not a religious person, but I, I feel like that's the closest thing to like,
00:13:52
Speaker
being touched by God, you know, like, like, or, or like you lived in a Disney movie for a moment, you know, like, like, like it's amazing. I think that's the greater reality. Yeah, exactly. And that we're so, well, i I can only speak for myself. I try so hard to, well, to be responsible and to be, ah because I love, I love,
00:14:19
Speaker
I love this. I love people. I love being part of this community and everything. yeah But the, uh, the more that I try to really be a part of it and, and be, and and be predictable and be,
00:14:32
Speaker
easily understood, ah the more I feel I distance from myself and from those moments that are readily available and who knows what I have just turned a blind eye to, what inspiration, because I'm so busy trying to be on time.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yes, yes. Yes! You know?
Theater School Reflections
00:14:52
Speaker
ah This has been something that's been really eating me up a lot lately, is this idea of like the sort of like the metaphysical versus the material, and the sort of the spiritual versus the material. more often, find...
00:15:01
Speaker
and more often you know like i find like like I find that there's these beautiful flashes of inspiration within pretty much all religions. They're all basically scratching at the same motif. They're all trying to figure out like, there's something else here, you know, and they've found different words for it. And and then the problem is that then they become dogmatic and they they sort of force the spiritual into the material, you know?
00:15:25
Speaker
and and And I think it's kind of beyond that. you know and and and i And I don't know how to find that. Because we're trapped in this capitalist hellscape. right like what These are the rules of the game.
00:15:36
Speaker
We have to play to survive. That's the magic. yeah okay That's where everything happens. We are physical beings and we're spiritual beings. and so And in order to be... and what In order to make something work, you have to show up. You have to be on time. right right we have In order to bring this stuff into being...
00:15:53
Speaker
you need to be in the balance of the two. And so there's, they they're, they're opposite, but they're, they, they are compatible, but it requires a discipline and letting go. So letting go is letting things be there. And the discipline is like, okay, I'll buckle down. And that's just the true pattern for everything you learn to do. Every basic thing that we do cooking, tying your shoes, wiping your butt, getting up on, you know, yeah all these basic things. It's all the same thing, but yeah, When it gets to the spirits, then it's like it's huge and and it's wonderful and it's magnificent. You want to just do that.
00:16:25
Speaker
But when you do just that, you go nuts. That's right. i mean, the look at all the Shambhala Instagram influencers who are all just insane. Because that's the pursuit of mysticism. you look yeah And then you get a glimpse And then the window shuts.
00:16:42
Speaker
And then you try to get that glimpse again. And you can't. You just bump into the glass. And then the glass gets thicker. And a and that's that's that's the evil fucking William.
Pushing Boundaries in Art
00:16:53
Speaker
Allen Ginsberg, actually, because he you know when he started out, he was a very big proponent of... you know he He got kind of like lured into... Obviously, it was the fifty s so he was trying weed.
00:17:01
Speaker
you know And he was like, whoa. right um but But over the years, over the decades of his career, he um you know he obviously got into... more more buddhism and stuff like that he also got into nambla stuff which i don't want to touch on right now but uh uh he became problematic but what he would talk about yeah oh yeah he became not a great dude um but but but if we can put that aside which is such a problematic thing to say but when he was talking about the spiritual he said drugs are a shortcut that trick us into thinking we've touched to the divine
00:17:36
Speaker
And and it's about it's about finding ways to patiently get there um without the you know, you've got to earn it basically. Right. um And I and I i yeah over the last couple of years, especially since getting sober, ah that's been you know, I've I've I've recognized how how much of a distance there is between where I thought I was to where I actually am, you know.
00:17:59
Speaker
Okay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Which is good, which is not a bad thing. It's just, you know, a seeing seeing the actual reality, right? It's the beautiful journey, man. Yeah. yeah can't you can't have You can't have the reward without the walk. You have to go through a lot.
00:18:14
Speaker
Mm-hmm. in order to Well, we start off there, and then you make your way back. It's weird. It's wonderful. It's perfect. It is. it is. It's perfect, and it's a bitch, and it's great. So, so you know, ah one of the sort of tentpole elements, tentpole questions of the show is this idea of community. And, and ah you know, I really love talking to theater people because I find the theater community to be such a – funny little cosmology it's like its own little bottle version of community as a as a whole because it it represents you know all the good and all the ill that can come from society is distilled and in theater um and and so starting with the question you know for you what does the word community mean and then i'd like to kind of build out from there okay well um
00:19:09
Speaker
For me, community is about a lot about responsibility
00:19:15
Speaker
because it's not just about me. I'm a part of ah of a group, of a network yeah that that is interconnected. so What I do matters.
00:19:28
Speaker
But because there are so many people, what I do doesn't matter ah too much depending on what I do of course yeah so ah community okay It's about learning to really, to to realize that you have a place and you have a voice and and be it and and not be an ass, right? And be accountable. I grew up in a small town where what you did was known.
00:19:57
Speaker
And who you are is known and who your family are is known, yeah right? And so there's never any escaping that. um And that was a really great lesson. It's a great way to grow up is where, you know, okay, mind your manners.
00:20:13
Speaker
and and And be yourself because you've got something to give and you have some value. And if you don't, then you just take enough space, but but which is really a disservice to you, right? Because you're more than that. And maybe you don't know that.
00:20:27
Speaker
And community can help you find that unless you get into the wrong community who just wants to eat you, yeah right? And there's that. there There are sub-communities. And you've got to pick the one that works for you. And often its we pick the ones that give us the most...
00:20:42
Speaker
immediate feedback. you knows Something that you like, you want that. and i like I'll take that right now. I'll need another hit. I'll take another. right and Then eventually, it's not nourishing. so That's growing up. you're out all And how do you find, no I think, that i think you're really onto something. And I think that, I think like, like listening to the way you're framing it is like wrinkling
Recognizing and Transitioning Communities
00:21:04
Speaker
my brain, you know? um And I appreciate that. These are, these are the, these are, these are moments why I do the show is to go, Oh, like, Oh, aha. Right. Exactly. You know? um And, and when it comes to the idea of like falling into the,
00:21:19
Speaker
the quote unquote wrong communities. um so So something I try to do through my therapy ah I've been coached to try to eliminate good, bad, and instead look at effective, ineffective. Nice. Right? Right? I love it. I love it so much. i don't I don't always clock it. I don't know. It doesn't always happen. But but when I hear it, I try.
00:21:39
Speaker
and And so I'm curious, what is the idea behind an ineffective community? um and And how do you sort of like, from your experience, how would you go about kind of like clocking?
00:21:51
Speaker
Is this an effective sort of network for me or not? Hmm. Well, what are you, I guess, what are you growing? What do how are you changing? Cause change is constant.
00:22:02
Speaker
And, and often these, these places that you're there for a reason at a time. Right. And, uh, when it no longer feels like that, that reward is helpful, then it's time to move on. But usually that takes a while to figure out and, you know,
00:22:23
Speaker
that's That's been my experience anyway. and and And then it's not necessarily that you need to entirely abandon that that group, but that you need to branch out into others as well and and practice some non-attachment with the others and then like step away, and say hello, do something else. it's almost like the you know It's almost like the monkey bars in a way, right? like Because it's like you know like like you're still attached to one while you're connecting to the next. like You're not just dropping, you know?
00:22:52
Speaker
um um And that's been that's been another thing. i was just talking to somebody the other day about this idea of like... you You know, when when when you're in a, you've got a bad job, say, you know, we were talking about like, you know, I'm stuck in my job, you know, not me, myself, that we're talking about that.
00:23:04
Speaker
I'm stuck in my job. I hate it. i have no safety resources. I need this job to pay my rent, to pay my bills. You know, I'm stuck, but I'm also trapped. And you tell this to your friend and your friend says like, we'll just get a new job.
00:23:18
Speaker
You know, and it's like, well, why don't you go fuck yourself? Right. You know, because it's like it's not it's not that simple. Right. And and and I wish it could be because it's like philosophically. Yeah. Obviously, the solution is just get out.
00:23:30
Speaker
But it's like there's also all these other parameters, you know, and these other pressures going on. um and ah And I'm curious, like, how do you
Harnessing Emotions for Change
00:23:38
Speaker
go about kind of navigating that sort of like tightrope walk between behind those things?
00:23:43
Speaker
Oh, i don't i don't say I'm i'm um great at that. So I'm not speaking as an authority on the matter. None of us are.
00:23:55
Speaker
No, no, I guess not. oh Some can, but they probably don't think they are either. right Yeah, fair. Yeah, let's see. Repeat the question so I don't go off track. Well, it's it's the idea of how do you find yourself balancing um wanting or needing to move into new whether you know communities or new new places in life while still being kind of trapped within the the sort of daily systems you're already in?
00:24:25
Speaker
Well, often it comes down, in my experience, to anger. it it requires a big emotion to have that exit velocity.
00:24:36
Speaker
Suddenly make another choice because fuck this. Yeah. right Yeah. And that's unfortunate because the opportunities often present themselves far earlier and you don't need the drama to get there.
00:24:48
Speaker
And I think as one learns, right. Or if they have a really good, uh, trusted network of others around them they say, Hey, have you considered this? Cause that's also happened in my life where someone's like, I'm surprised you're doing this. And I'm like,
00:25:01
Speaker
Oh, Oh yeah. Yeah. And then I get out. Right. Uh, so it depends on the situation. Uh, but yeah, I mean,
00:25:12
Speaker
It bothers me that I have to have a huge feeling before I'm really ready to move on with something. um But ah curiosity and like feeling like you can, if if you have grown up or learned through your adulthood that you can, h and you are used to saying, hey, why not?
00:25:30
Speaker
This is mine too. I'm going to do this. And you just get into that habit. that beginner that that you're always in the beginner space which is why i love acting uh because it requires that mindset simply to function um then i can't get too into anything else i just dont i just stay there and i stay curious and i stay present which is where all the power is it is in being present and so if you are able to be present in those moments you can step out Because you'll see it, right? Yeah. And if you're not, you're just on a replay, then it takes it you you require that pain.
00:26:02
Speaker
You need to hit the fucking wall and hurt and say, oh, come back to consciousness through being knocked out. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, you're really you're really clicking stuff into place in my brain of of how, you know, confidence and anger are in a lot of ways the two sides of the same coin, you know, because because the emotions themselves, right?
00:26:23
Speaker
You know, no emotion is good or bad, and um ah all emotions are tools to be put to use effectively or ineffectively, right? And so so, you know, more often than not, an uncomfortable emotion like anger gets used ineffectively because it then causes harm or whatever it might do.
00:26:38
Speaker
um but But the reality is anger is an incredible motivator, right? It gets you moving. It get charges you up. It gets your body going, right? And that's the same thing that confidence can do. It's just that it happens earlier. So you're not at that like boiling point of of needing to move.
00:26:54
Speaker
It's that you want to move, right? Nice. Yeah. yeah Yeah. Nicely put. Yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker
Well, this this is more of a personal thing. but I don't yeah like you were saying that you found me intimidating and scary. And like, that was so, I had no interest in creating that sort of, that sort of vibe.
00:27:19
Speaker
Um, yeah, I really didn't. And I, and I've heard, you're not the only person who's ever said that. Sure. Um, But i I just wonder what that was like for you. Because yeah i to me, when I hear that, i feel like I must have been some, I fear I was a bully of some kind or something. And I, hell no, that was definitely not what I was about or wanting, but that doesn't mean that's not what I was.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yes. In terms of impact, right? you know Yeah. i I'm very curious about your experience, your would take on that. what What was that for you? Yeah. You know, it's funny. This links into something I've thought, I've been thinking a lot of ah for a couple of years, actually. um um ever Really, ever since you reached out about getting on the show, um because you talked about how I had mentioned doing a play with you years ago um on a different show. And, you know, I went back and I listened and I really regretted saying it on the show. And, and it wasn't because I regretted what I said. It was that I regretted not saying it to you, you know, and, and not just talking to you about it instead of like, you know, projecting it. Right.
00:28:25
Speaker
um And, and I think that there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that overlap with each other in that, like, I was, you know, I was the first year when you were a third or fourth year. So there was that like, kind of like perceived gap, you know,
00:28:39
Speaker
But there was also, um for me, though it really boils down to, you um um it was just Richard III, you were really intense,
Creative Safety and Authority
00:28:46
Speaker
you know? ah but do would but do we When doing Richard III, and I was always, i got cast as, yeah like, your whipping boy several times.
00:28:55
Speaker
And I got, like, legitimately whipped several times. And that sucked, you know? um And there was no, you know, it was 2006 or whatever, so it's not like there was, like, a safety coordinator. It was just, like, that that whatever the director's name, Giles or Giles or whatever.
00:29:07
Speaker
just being like, ah maybe don't punch him in the balls next time. you know That was about the extent of my direction from it That's just real that's just it right? you know And this is the thing. And and so like being in in the moment, because you were closer to me, in the moment, I thought it was you.
00:29:25
Speaker
But then as I stepped back and as I got further from it and as I reflected on it, I was like, oh, no, no, we were both students. we both of us were not being treated safely because the person who was actually supposed to be in control wasn't and wasn't directing us well and wasn't directing us safely, you know?
00:29:42
Speaker
And so, um you know, over the years, I've i've i've definitely, like, But it's now more become like a funny story of like, yeah, one time at improv, you know he was just really in the character and he just like full on, like you like elbowed me in the nuts one time in rehearsal. Did I? Oh yeah, it like winded me and I just like, and they like the direction was like, yeah, don't do that.
00:30:05
Speaker
You know, is this thing, honestly, Trevor, like, honestly, this is the thing. I'm not bringing this up to shame you. Like, if these are things that I don't, I don't bear any ill will about. And I don't, I don't carry any, you know, like I say, the thing that has lingered with me longer has been not talking to you about it. And instead like using it as like comedy fodder, you know what I mean? And, um and the other piece is that ah because of that sort of, you know, that experience, I, you know,
00:30:36
Speaker
I'm an anxious guy. I'm just an anxious dude in general. And I have been for years. I'm working on it. I'm, you know, you know, I'm getting better at it. um But, you know, i mentioned that that last time we hung out before you graduated and and it felt like you were you were like a different person. And I was like, oh, there's Trevor.
00:30:54
Speaker
I had been hanging out with Richard for for for two months, you know, and like, here's Trevor. And this is like a totally different person. This is somebody who's down to earth. Somebody who's philosophical, somebody who I can kind of, you know,
00:31:06
Speaker
for lack a better word, rap with, you know what i mean? Like, just kind of like, like, like spit with. Right. And, and, um, and so it, yeah, it came as like a, a big like eye opener of like, oh, like, and I think ah my brains bounce around. I'm ADHD. Um, I, I, I think it, uh, uh,
00:31:25
Speaker
in a way it kind of soured me on theater a little bit because it was like, I want to hang out with people. I don't want to hang out with people who are pretending to be other people, you know?
00:31:38
Speaker
Right. Like I want to hang out with, ah you know, I wanted to spend time with Trevor. I didn't want to spend time with Trevor pretending to be X, Y, Z, you know what mean? Right. Yeah. I totally understand that. yeah I find that's often, um,
00:31:51
Speaker
I have some trouble with that in that when I'm doing a show, whatever it might be, um my job is to be, is to invite and absorb and embody as much as possible of this this other human being's experience, which is because i can perceive it, it's also me. So to bring that part of me to the foreground, right? And that's work.
00:32:19
Speaker
So we have so much time, only so much time. And so in that space where there are all of these wonderfully interesting people, hey I see all these other actors have got you know they got it down. They can totally do the role and they're really present, not me. yeah yeah yeah I'm just like pulling it in as much as I can and then letting it out in a controlled manner. and Well, now now it's more controlled than was at that time. rehearsal. I would not hit anyone in the nuts today.
00:32:51
Speaker
And you know what, James Cott, from what I understand, I mean, I can't speak, but i from what I understand, you were both safe through the whole big, big fight. Oh, for sure. you know right Yeah. so you know all want to like oh I think I took off your hat and whacked you the k nuts and messts with it. I think remember that moment. Yeah, you hit me in the back one time. Yeah, yeah.
00:33:07
Speaker
you're wearing your hat in front of the king. Fuck you. That would hurt. That would hurt. Yeah, yeah that was that was... But it's those moments that really bring things to life, too. So in the creative way, that was a great moment.
00:33:22
Speaker
And the director's like, fuck yeah, because that's there. You, James, just got hit in the nuts. yeah That's not cool. That's the balance. And that's the thing that I... have been i mean I don't know. And this is and honestly, and this is another piece that I think about all the time where it's like, well, I personally am more interested in art that is pushing boundaries. And so like, I don't know, like maybe yeah we should be consenting to that a little more, you know, but it's like, I mean, not even maybe like we should be, but it's like, but it's like, I don't,
00:33:57
Speaker
necessarily see the problem in a little bit more aggressive art. and And, you know, and so it's like, I don't know, I i i go back and forth with that stuff all the time. And I don't know, you know, day by day, I land differently.
Reflecting on Mistakes and Personal Growth
00:34:08
Speaker
The difference there is that you did not elect to have someone hit you in the nuts. That's the difference. Exactly. I did that in a moment of impulse. Yeah, so that's there's the difference. If you choose to do something and and go into it, and like that's that's different. like When you're doing a fight scene, things going to happen. There was no fight scene in that moment.
00:34:27
Speaker
It just happened. So yeah there's there's the difference. um And on that, nobody wants to watch anybody's story about how comfortable they are.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Who cares? Exactly. Right? No, people want to... The willingness to engage in any piece of storytelling is about being willing to step into someone else's discomfort.
00:34:53
Speaker
And to do that, you have to be really willing to be uncomfortable. Even when it's like just the act of of the of the physical intensity of it is uncomfortable. You need to be cool with that.
00:35:03
Speaker
And then all the emotional stuff, that's... But going into discomfort and there's this trend of of making sure everyone feels safe and everyone feels comfortable. Now, there's a space for that. That could be a container where creative work can happen.
00:35:16
Speaker
And I think that container is often abused and especially now. And so it's not all about everyone feeling safe and about everyone being comfortable. It's about being safe, yeah knowing you're safe and then just go for it and stop.
00:35:31
Speaker
stop being selfish. Yeah, yeah. I do think that there is a i think there is a funny, I think you're on onto something with the idea of being safe versus feeling safe, you know?
00:35:41
Speaker
um And I think that there is more to it. um And I think, you know, i do I do appreciate the conversations that are happening and I appreciate the pushes that are happening, but I do still think nobody has landed on the answer.
00:35:53
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, I think it's still a conversation in process. I don't think we have anything settled yet and I think we need to be pushing it more but because I think it's been a bit of a rubber band of like it's a laissez-faire do whatever you want and then that leads to certain abuse and then it's a we're really strict and we're really oversight and that leads to a type of abuse and there needs to be ah you know it's the it's the middle path you know like we need a balance happening That's happening naturally. i mean, it's going to, you got to really and try something on for a while until and and let all the parts that don't fit fall away.
Parenting and Breaking Patterns
00:36:25
Speaker
Exactly. Experience and failures and then keep the bits that do. And of course that makes sense.
00:36:29
Speaker
So the conversation has been very important. Yeah. And it's time to, uh, to embody it. yeah yeah that's but That's exactly it. But let a lot of it go. yeah Thank you very much. yeah I had this other thought. I think the other piece, and again, you know it's so funny because it's like so much of it is like it's not how you showed up, it's how I showed up and how I was perceiving the world. And I think this this is a really interesting thing to talk about is this idea of like I was really, un, unconfident, right. I lacked confidence and, and to see someone like you walking around confident and, and, and, uh, believing in yourself and making it a choice and doing it, you know, um,
00:37:10
Speaker
What I what I I don't want to say what I should have done, what what would have been a more effective choice would have been being inspired by that. And instead, I decided to be intimidated by that. And I decided to write, you know, and and I think that that's a very common impulse for a lot of people is they see some someone doing something that they wish they were doing.
00:37:28
Speaker
And so instead of saying, oh, they can do it, so I totally can. Instead, the impulse is, well, fuck that guy. You know, why don't we why don't we tear him down? Why don't we make him feel as bad as I'm feeling right now?
00:37:38
Speaker
You know, and I hate that. I hate that impulse. I despise that impulse. And I know i know that that is a part of me. And I know that that is a thing that I have done many times and likely will continue to.
00:37:49
Speaker
um But it is a thing that I've tried to recognize in myself and I've tried to to shift over the years. you know It's so common and it'll come back in other ways, right? you'll That's just it. you'll You'll gain mastery over it in this way and then it'll come back in another with a new mask on and be like, didn't recognize me, did you? my god Oh my God. That's something i talk about with my therapist all the time where i like we'll be talking about like a new issue and I'll stop and I'll be like,
00:38:12
Speaker
Oh fuck sake, we're literally talking about the same fucking thing, aren't we? And he's he's kind of like, yeah, yeah. You know? Drinks you! i But he always says, he always says like, isn't that so incredible? Doesn't it prove how incredible our brain is?
00:38:27
Speaker
That it's like, oh no. you're caught on to me i have to now make up a brand new character to scare you you know right exactly like mustache that you signifiers right it's it's incredible you know like it's really it's inspiring it's also really fucking frustrating it's hilarious right exactly exactly it's really fun it's funny yeah i find myself laughing at inappropriate times
Self-Care and Global Chaos
00:38:50
Speaker
oh yeah because of the comedy yeah right it's great it's great and it's fucking terrible Like, ah, um see, see, I can laugh when it's me or it's other adults.
00:39:01
Speaker
And I am now a father. Yeah. When my children, I'm, I've yet to be really, truly tested in that regard, but I'm going, that's a, that's a disguise it's going to pop in with.
00:39:12
Speaker
And I'm going to be mad when it does. And I'm going to have to figure that out yeah as it unfolds. So I don't demonstrate to my children how to be an asshole when things aren't going well. yeah Right. Yeah. Because that's super available.
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah. yeah I am so protective of my children. But the best way that I can be a good dad to them is to enjoy their mistakes.
00:39:37
Speaker
and to be like and And to show them, they like hey, it's going to happen, dude. yeah Chill out. Know what you can do and do that. And i am. when When it comes to physical stuff, my son's a stuntman.
00:39:49
Speaker
And but he gets hurt all the time. But now he now he's tough. He's four. But he's tough. and um And I think his little sister, who's one, is going to be boss.
00:40:01
Speaker
I love it. I love it. She prefers to roar than she does to talk. And she runs around and stops. She's ah she is such a cool, yeah cool dude.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah, anyway, yeah that's that's the trick. That's where I know it's going to really... get it under my ribs. yeah Yeah. So that actually, that really leads me into one of one of my next, one of the big questions is this idea of, you know, like, as we've been talking about, and as,
Finding Hope and Community Strength
00:40:30
Speaker
you know, anybody who even has a passing ah exposure to social media sees, like, the world is really complicated right now.
00:40:38
Speaker
It's really fucked up. There's lots of good and lots of bad, and it's really easy to get swept up in these cycles of fear and negativity and, and as I've been talking a lot about on the show recently is this idea of like, it's good to be aware.
00:40:52
Speaker
It's good to be informed. It's good to be up to date. It's also good to know what your capacity is and what your limit is. And to know that it is okay to take care of yourself and step back sometimes.
00:41:07
Speaker
And, you know, it's that whole thing of, you know, it's the put your own air mask on first, right? You know? yeah So you can't just be online all the time screaming and, you know, like that's not going to help you. It's not going to help anybody else. um And I'm curious, you know for you, what is something,
00:41:21
Speaker
you know i frame it as what's something that's giving you hope these days? But it's really this idea of like, how do you how are you being gentle with yourself, I guess, is is another way of putting it.
00:41:34
Speaker
There are few things that are battering at me and making me feel any sense of despair. And there are so many things that that give me hope. Knowing that is really, like being aware of that is the key.
00:41:51
Speaker
And it's like one big stupid fucking thing will come around and and, well, yeah, it's a big giant and a whole forest of wonderful good things, right? They're all operating on a smaller level.
00:42:06
Speaker
Many, many, many, many good one or two big bad. yeah the And of course it throws a big shadow and it's big and scary and that's always the way and it's real.
00:42:19
Speaker
It's not, you know, ah it's not, it's the, the answer is not in diminishing the threat, yes but it's in realizing the wealth of strength operating quietly And not making a big loud scene, right? But continually at work.
00:42:38
Speaker
And having faith in that, but not just faith. I don't want to get into a... I have to step up. I have to be involved.
00:42:50
Speaker
I cannot do it on social media.
Embracing Discomfort for Growth
00:42:52
Speaker
To me, it is empty. I cannot possibly be effective there, I think. yeah It's just not for me. So what gives me hope is that everywhere I look...
00:43:03
Speaker
I find commonality and I can, there's great strength in that. I don't think that any threat, real threat will be unchallenged.
00:43:19
Speaker
And stuff i don't know. I don't want to predict anything, but I believe,
00:43:26
Speaker
no I'm aware that there's
00:43:32
Speaker
There has been a lot of learning happening over the last 20 years. And I think it's really time to embody it in a synthesized way because we become very we've become a more educated species and that's useless until you apply it.
00:43:57
Speaker
So... And that's really fucking scary and really uncomfortable. and I don't want to be bothered with it, really. i would much rather continue going about what I'm familiar with. But what I'm familiar with suffocates me if I stay there very long, right? It's just atrophy and and you get weak and you get stupid and you get, and that is very scary and very difficult to move and change.
00:44:19
Speaker
But the same is true so many times. I mean, everything that is rewarding requires effort and is uncomfortable. Hmm. right And that's what brings life. So we want life. We want change. We want health. and it's And what we're seeing, particularly down south and here, I mean, there's many factions here that would welcome the same thing. But it is the dying of a dinosaur. And it's crashing and it is And is angry.
00:44:46
Speaker
and But there's the problem is it also has some roots that are valid, right? So that's why it takes root. and And things have gone way too far. So people who would be ah absolutely against this yeah have become like, well, at least it's not what I've been hearing and I'm yeah fucking tired of and I do not want to hear any more of.
Individual Responsibility in Societal Issues
00:45:05
Speaker
right people the people the good side has lost allies by being far too extreme and so and i do mean that the good side yeah we need to be an accepting and wonderful people it's really easy because it's not about it's not about being a feminist it's not about about being it's just not being an asshole being the opposite sure you can be sexist or you can be homophobic yeah it's not about being It's not progressive to not be those things.
00:45:35
Speaker
yeah That's yeah just the bar. That's just being a human. That's it. that's yeah That's where we have to wake up every morning without effort. And I think that's largely there. I don't know, though. that I'm surrounded by interesting, intelligent people.
00:45:50
Speaker
And it's become clear to me that a lot of people fucking aren't. Yeah. I mean, that's my problem is that it's like, and I i do hate using these words, but it's like, i don't know if I would go so far as to be like, so many people are stupid. It's that so many people are comfortable and our are scared of being uncomfortable.
00:46:09
Speaker
And that leads to complacency, you know? and And that looks like stupidity. Well, that's just it, right? Exactly. People follow strength. People follow conviction. People follow something that inspires them.
00:46:22
Speaker
And when it's when it's when the most inspirational thing is nothing changing and not being not being uncomfortable, a lot of people will do that too, right? But yeah but if you just want to... um ah I don't have the answer, James, but i think that I think that it's time for people who've been thinking and growing a lot to really...
00:46:43
Speaker
to really wear it. And and and that can that doesn't need to be on a big public platform. It can just be in your everyday experience. And when you see something stupid happening, talk about it yeah to the person doing it in the moment and try to remember that they're also your allies. may not know They might not know it at the moment.
00:47:02
Speaker
but it's And the more strength you have, like the more you cultivate your strength and believe in your strength and know it, that is unavoidable to everyone that you come in contact with at any given moment.
00:47:15
Speaker
yeah right And we're all going feel weak at different times. That's fine. But realize that you're actually enormously powerful. and that's And that we all are. It's not special about you or me. It's just like, it's the common ground, yeah but you have to be it to...
00:47:31
Speaker
to
00:47:33
Speaker
to be in the world, you know, or you can just exist and move along with the tide and with the current and it will sweep you away. There's no avoiding it. Yeah. it's very fucking convenient. Yeah. and And we are in a time of convenience where being comfortable is number one.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yeah. And it's what everybody wants. Convenience is king. And as long as we keep those conveniences, we will let all manner of atrocities happen under our noses. That's right.
00:47:58
Speaker
And I am, I am part of that and I hate it. Yeah, I think about that all the time. Actually, that's something that I've been that's the last couple of therapy sessions have been about this idea of, you know, obviously we we don't all bear the same level of responsibility, but we all do bear responsibility for where the world is right now.
00:48:17
Speaker
We have all participated and we all need to take accountability for how we showed up to contribute to the situation as it is, you know, and and and obviously like i you know, I bear a different kind of responsibility to somebody like a politician or whatever, whoever it might be. But but we all have participated in the same system.
00:48:34
Speaker
And and it's OK to say it's partially my fault. You know, that's there's no there's no weakness. There's no capitulation. There's no that's that's just a reality, you know, and it's and and I think until we stop avoiding that.
00:48:50
Speaker
we can't actually figure out what the next game is, you know, because the the game that they play is who are we going to blame today? Who are we going to point our fingers at? Who are going to say it's their fault? You know, and and you're playing that same thing by saying, well, it's actually your fault.
00:49:03
Speaker
You know, that's it's you're just going in a little circle there, you know, so it's like what's what's the you know, how but how about we step away from that game and we play something new and we try something new, you know, that's where I'm trying to get to. Right.
00:49:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we need to stop catastrophizing so much because it makes us numb. Yeah. And I think it's- Well, it's black and white thinking. It's literally a form of disassociation. There we go. Yes.
00:49:28
Speaker
yeah Yes. Wonderful. Well said. Yeah. yeah and And realizing that usually there isn't a bad guy in the room. Yeah. and Until there is. And that's kind of the philosophy that's that that's carried with me from martial arts training since I was a child.
00:49:43
Speaker
Usually ah situation can be can be met um and with with confidence and strength, um real conflict can be
Dynamics of Friendship
00:49:53
Speaker
avoided.
00:49:53
Speaker
But in the moment that real conflict arises, like the fucking bad guy, because there is evil in the world. Yeah. It is real and it will manifest always.
00:50:05
Speaker
Every generation will And you have to be able to stop it. You have to stop it. Then you just jump in and you kick it in the fucking face. they They're the ones you you elbow in the nuts, you know, right? yeah right right That's right. And so yeah this is not a time to be soft. This is a time to be strong.
00:50:21
Speaker
And it's time to recognize your strength. ah Otherwise you can never fucking do it. and you And you'll eat yourself up because of that. Because you know you could be. You know you can be. I know i can be better than I am today. And I must.
00:50:33
Speaker
I must. I mean, that's a that's a tenet to the DBT therapy I do, which is it says everybody is trying their best and we can do better, you know. Right. You know, and right and it's and it's all about like just keep pushing. Keep on pushing. Don't don't don't rest on your laurels. Don't get comfy.
00:50:47
Speaker
Get a little further. Get a little further. You know, that's delicious. Yeah, it's it's the best. Right. You know. I need more therapy. Right. Right. Conversations being had. Everyone does. Right. Everyone needs it. you know Yeah. that's yeah ah Yeah.
00:51:01
Speaker
Um, Trev, I, I am cognizant of the time. I'm watching the time here and I want to make sure we, we, we, we wrap up enough before, before you get, you get, uh, invaded by your, by your little baby force. Oh, they don't invade. They come home. Right.
00:51:15
Speaker
Um, but I, so I am going to, I'm going to, I'm going to put aside the question of, of friendship. Um, and And because I think, you know, we really we really tapped on a couple. You know what? Okay, scratch that. We're going to do a quick.
00:51:27
Speaker
Great. I would like to know, what does it mean to you to be a friend? Ah. To be a friend and to have friends,
00:51:40
Speaker
celebrate the wonderful nuances and get to know them um of people as they are, right? And everyone's flawed, everyone's crazy, and the older we get, the crazier we get, right? So learning to be like cool with that, but also calling people out on their shit.
00:51:56
Speaker
yep Being curious about what matters to them, right? And and checking in about that. And like if I really don't care, about what somebody's but matters to somebody, well, I'm not going to be really able to meet them as a friend, right? I can i can like them and I can be interested in them a far from afar, but I'm not going to invest my time and energy.
00:52:15
Speaker
And accepting that, I think, is really the best friendship we're going to have. And that's okay. And that might change with time. So accepting that. So I'm not stretching myself too thin. i'm not So I'm not exhausted and and feeling, what's the word? I don't,
00:52:33
Speaker
resent them wanting my energy ever. Right. yep Um, so knowing when I've, when I have space, yeah that's important to be a friend being cool when they don't have space, giving them their space. Cause they're their own person. They have their own life and I get to be in an intimate place with them. That is a treasure.
00:52:51
Speaker
So recognizing that and not taking it for granted, which I do with the closest people, right? I have to remind myself, like I am surrounded by brilliant people. brilliant people yeah on many, many, many levels.
00:53:07
Speaker
I'm staggered by the beauty of the people that I get to be around on a regular basis. And then not even considering the people that I don't get to be around, but that I get to know.
00:53:19
Speaker
yeah Holy shit. yeah So that's that's overwhelming. I can't possibly love them enough. But I only have so much to give. So knowing that, and that's what makes me a better friend.
00:53:32
Speaker
But taking the opportunities to really be curious and and and love them in whatever way I can in the time. But I think social media is a trap because it's just too many tendrils of energy going too many places.
00:53:45
Speaker
And then I'm just overwhelmed. Yep. And I can't possibly regulate, you know, i can't make radio right when I'm so overwhelmed. Exactly. When you're going, when you're going, you know, a cat video to a bombing to whatever, you know, it's like, you can't regulate. There's no way to know what's coming next. So you're just know constant panic.
00:54:02
Speaker
Right. That's like being God and having your mind open to everything all at once. both We can't fucking handle it. No. Yeah. I need to make a little fire in a cave. yeah and smell what's on the wind today and that's it yeah really and love my family and like what was that sound right that's really me at peak capacity and then maybe i'm gonna write something down yeah i'm gonna learn something today right but really i'm just an animal i'm an animal with an infinite capacity which is yeah fucking cool but there's the duality again right which is the the the cosmic wonderful joke yeah that makes our lives hilarious and fucking
00:54:38
Speaker
terrible and wonderful so yeah uh and just being with that and enjoying it with ease i think is i think that's what really but
Creativity and Mindfulness
00:54:48
Speaker
friendship um taking time i could listen to you talk for hours sorry he's sorry go ahead yeah that's very kind of you um i'm enjoying this conversation very much um yeah yeah so just you know hey how's it going let's Let's chat a little. Come over and play a game. Let's do something silly.
00:55:08
Speaker
Now tell me about something that really fucking matters to you. And I'm going to really listen. if And then i'm goingnna I'm going to remember that. And then we're going to talk about this again. right and then and then hey let's go do something fun and silly have you have you talked to my children these things matter to me yeah these are the things i care about what am i curious about what are you curious about let's talk about those things what's testing you today let's find something you know or let's let's let's push some boundaries dude you know these those are kind of the words that just kind of have to be in a tiny little pocket of presence
00:55:44
Speaker
in friendship, right? And also make and be ready for prizes because they're going to happen. Yeah. yeah ah that's I don't have a clear answer, but that's just kind of the vibe. is You said so much and I appreciate it. like i feel like I feel like you got so much in there so compressed and I, you know, like I'm, I'm, yeah, I think everybody needs to go back and parse that out because there's a lot of really good stuff in there and and I agree wholeheartedly with all of it. you know? Yay! Okay, yeah yeah, of course you do. Yeah, you've been thinking about this a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:19
Speaker
You know, wonderful. You must have learned so many things from so many people, James. I'm trying. I'm trying, man. I, you know, I, I, I i like to think I have. um It's, it's funny. I don't get, i don't get many opportunities to put it into practice.
00:56:33
Speaker
ah in the way that I'd like to. And that's something that I've been thinking about as we've been talking is this idea of like, I've been very much in a theoretical state for for a while. And and i've I've been trying to get more into the practice phase, you know?
00:56:47
Speaker
um um But it's it's hard. It's a weird, you know, Vancouver's a weird city for it. But it's also just like, everybody's, everybody's traumatized, you know? Like everybody's everybody's having a rough time, you know? And and and kind of finding...
00:57:03
Speaker
It's sort of that question of what we talked about way earlier about the the idea of finding your community and finding your network and finding the right people to be around. And you know and and i've I've had a couple of false starts over the over the last couple of years where I kind of thought I found my people and then hadn't. And so i'm I'm kind of back at the drawing board again. you know but i i think it's important to acknowledge where there's wounds and where there's difficulty, but...
Career Shifts and Artistic Pursuits
00:57:26
Speaker
you really You only grow from your strength. yeah So really making that where you start your day, acknowledging when shit goes awry, because it's going to, right but that's okay. you know yeah It's not okay. it's It is okay.
00:57:39
Speaker
It is. but It has to be, because it is. you know has to be. You've got to step up. like we've never The human race has never been as comfortable And has has had as much ease as it has today. And I bet there are a lot more like ah psychiatric problems today than ever before as well.
00:57:59
Speaker
That says something. We're not made to be comfortable. But we got to rise out of our misery or out of it because we can wallow forever. yeah yeah My mind is ah is a labyrinth.
00:58:11
Speaker
If I'm too in my head, I am completely fucked. so am those Same. yeah Yeah, of course. Of course. And that is the creative mind, right? So you I got to get in my body.
00:58:22
Speaker
I got do stuff. Right. And that brings me into the present and the present. I am free. I'm powerful. i am useless anywhere else. Really. I mean, I can't imagine the future and I can't, the past is a, it's gone.
00:58:33
Speaker
It's full of stories that ah may or may not be true. I don't know. That's just it. Right. Exactly. yeah It's a waste. When the the present is a gift. So fucking show up. I don't know. That's where i but I, when I'm not well and I feel like I'm i'm i'm rooted in in past hurts and whatnot, I need to get here and now.
00:58:54
Speaker
So when you say that about everyone's traumatized in Vancouver, well, it also is a place that really welcomes beauty yeah and creativity.
00:59:08
Speaker
You are a poet, right? yeah all these things that are banging off in your head, there are no rules in poems, man. And we need poetry. I don't even, I don't appreciate poetry, but I think it might be the frontier of like where really cool communication can happen. yeah And it it can't just be people snapping their fingers on a stage that a bunch of people who already like poetry go to.
00:59:31
Speaker
It's gotta be something else. Like some Banksy shit that like makes people think and is like, wow, yeah what happened at some gorilla poetry that just occurs? Yeah, that's what theater is supposed to be.
00:59:43
Speaker
It's fucking not. No, it's not at all. But it could be. It has been in the past. It'll come around again, right? I'd like to be there when that
Showcasing Friendships and Support
00:59:53
Speaker
happens. same By the way, I've barely touched theater in years. like I get to do a few select things now and then um because i take time when I can, but I steal that time.
01:00:02
Speaker
It's film and TV and video games now. Right. Because it's so concise, right? And it pays well. And you can be busy all year in theater and be broke. yep Which is backwards.
01:00:14
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Go backwards. Yeah. Um... um Trevor, you know, we could talk literally for hours and I'm already like, okay, so we're going to have to get you back on because we're going to need to just like keep going with all this. Sure. And we could just, we could just be friends. I mean, we this is this is the other piece. i You know, I like, I like sharing like one of the, one of the treasures that I've discovered through this show has been the opportunity to show the world, the people I know, and to be able to be like, look at these incredible people who are in my life. Do you
01:00:47
Speaker
like, aren't I so lucky and aren't they amazing? Right. And so like, I like to, I like to get people who inspire me and who challenge me and who just sort of like rock me, you know, I like to get them on I like, I like sharing these conversations. And at the same time too, I also recognize I lean onto that thing where it's like, I could also just be a person.
01:01:05
Speaker
I could also just hang out, you know, right. you know But, but, and I think we will do that. I think we will do that going forward. You know, Sook isn't that far, you know, um but yes, it is.
01:01:16
Speaker
I guess it kind of is. It kind of is. Especially I don't have a car, so it kind of is. as well in Australia. and Fair, fair. But yeah before we wrap up, um you know, I do want to say just thank you. Like, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me. and And this has been such a pleasure. It's been, you know, it's been a long time coming and an even longer time coming in the sort of, the the you know, the the sense of just, you know,
01:01:39
Speaker
getting to talk again and getting to pick your brain again, you know? Let's talk more. Yeah. I'd love to come on again. And yeah, this, thank you for providing the opportunity. It's great. And I, yeah, I'd love to talk some more. That'd be really nice. Excellent. Excellent. um Just the very last thing before we wrap up, I always like to leave, or I guess I should, I should ask, are there, is there anywhere ah you'd like listeners to find you any, or do you want to stay mysterious or do you want, do you want listeners to to to find you anywhere on the internet, anywhere like Nope.
01:02:06
Speaker
I'm completely boring online. Love it. Love it. um Yeah. And I prefer to stay that way. i'm Fabulous. Fabulous. Very last thing. i always love to leave listeners with a little actionable thing they can try out. So what is one thing everyone could try doing this week to be a more effective friend, either to themselves or to their community?
01:02:26
Speaker
i Just check in with your friends. Check in with your strong friends and ask how they're like, are they happy? What's going on? Yeah.
01:02:37
Speaker
Yeah. Because people, rightly so, check in with the folks who are having a hard time. Right. But everyone's having some kind of a hard time. Yeah. you know And it's just nice. the The people, I think, who are generally perceived to be doing well because they're jolly ah often really benefit tremendously from just a check-in.
01:02:59
Speaker
It has a lot of power. Yep. Yep. Just to say, oh, i'm not I'm not the provider of strength and of attention. I also am willing i'm able to receive it.
01:03:11
Speaker
So think that's a valid thing. That's wonderful. I think
Closing and Gratitude
01:03:14
Speaker
that's spot on. And I think that's a really, really powerful reminder. I mean, you know I always, my brain immediately goes to people like Rob Williams and all that, you know, and it's like the people who are, people who are often laughed in loudest are often the ones who need the most help, you know? So, so, right. So um thank you.
01:03:28
Speaker
Thank you so much, sh Trevor. This has been just such a pleasure. And and yeah, I really appreciate it I don't have any, game yeah, you're very, very well. I don't have any kind of like sign off for the show. So I always just end up kind of being like, well,
01:03:39
Speaker
Thank you. Goodbye. yeah I'm curious about all the things in the background there. Maybe we can talk about that another time. looks like some cool shit. that It's very complex. yeah I like it.
01:03:59
Speaker
And that's it. Thank you one more time to Trevor for coming on the show. You know, there's something really special about reconnecting with somebody after so many years and discovering that not only have they grown into this fascinating, thoughtful person, but that they've also maintained that kind of magnetic energy that drew you to them in the first place.
01:04:19
Speaker
I feel like an episode like this is really the kind of conversation that reminds me of why I started this podcast in the first place. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did, please consider subscribing wherever you get your podcasts.
01:04:32
Speaker
Share it with a friend who might maybe need a reminder about the power of genuine connection. And if you're feeling particularly generous, why not leave us a five-star review? It helps other people find the episodes and join the conversation. so Any little bit helps.
01:04:46
Speaker
You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at FriendlessPod. If you have any listener questions you want answered on a future solo episode, email me friendlesspod at gmail.com.
01:04:57
Speaker
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01:05:08
Speaker
But that's going to do it for me this week. So let's wrap things up here. Thank you so much for listening. And I hope to catch you back here next week with a brand new episode. But hey, I'm not going to worry about that right now.
01:05:19
Speaker
And neither should you. Because as always, that is then and this is now. So for now, I'll just say I love you. I hope you keep showing up. I hope you keep checking in on your friends.
01:05:32
Speaker
And I hope you take good care of yourself. Fun and safety, sweet peas.
01:06:12
Speaker
you.