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00:00:01
Building Lasting Connections (with special guest Keira Daniels)
55 Plays3 days ago
In this very special episode of "Friendless," host James Avramenko welcomes back a beloved guest, Keira Daniels. Their conversation is a delightful blend of humour, introspection, and valuable life lessons on aging, friendships, and staying connected.
James and Keira kick things off with a humorous exchange about planned bed days, setting the tone for a lively and candid discussion. Keira shares insights from her partner, emphasising the importance of understanding others in conflict without assuming drastic personality changes.
The episode delves into the significance of maintaining friendships as we age, with James reminiscing about his grandparents' long-lasting bonds and social routines. Keira brings a fresh perspective on building adult friendships through "play" and everyday conversations, highlighting the challenges and rewards of authentic connections.
As they explore work relationships versus real friendships, James shares touching stories about his grandfather's social group, the "Knights of the Round Table," and the melancholy of outliving his friends. Keira and James agree that essential friendships often require flexibility, humorously recounting their own spontaneous social activities.
The conversation also tackles complex themes like overuse of terms like "narcissist," bad data collection, agile thinking, and the importance of honest feedback in friendships. Keira emphasises resolving conflicts without ego, while James discusses the societal pressures on men regarding being wrong.
Listeners will appreciate the candid reflections on social media's role in fostering connections, the challenges of maintaining friendships, and the importance of reaching out to brighten someone's day. James and Keira's mutual admiration is palpable, creating a warm and inviting atmosphere for the audience.
James wraps up the episode with gratitude towards Keira, thoughts on upcoming projects, and a heartfelt message for listeners to support the show. Don't miss this episode filled with laughter, wisdom, and the timeless value of genuine friendships.
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Transcript
00:00:08
Speaker
Well hey there sweet peas. Welcome back to Friendless, I'm your host James Avramenko and this week I have special returning guest Kira Daniels back on the show. We talk about quality over quantity when it comes to friend hangouts, how to ask for and how to give help to friends in need, and just what it takes to keep friends long into our old age.
00:00:29
Speaker
All that and so much more. Kira is one of my favorite people in the world. She's one of my favorite guests on the show. This interview was an absolute blast. You're gonna love it. So lean back, get comfy, set your volume at a reasonable level, and enjoy my interview with the one and only Kira Daniels here on Friendless.
00:00:47
Speaker
Kyra. Daniels. Kyra. It really helps if you roll the R. yeah um You know, you've you've you've been on the show a couple times and every time you come on, but before just before we hit recording, I always worry, am I saying your name right? Oh, I love you. Okay, as the like recipient of a terrible name.
00:01:13
Speaker
um which many people with odd names know. It's key as in key in a door, air as in the air you breathe, ah as in the sound you make when you understand how to say my name.
00:01:25
Speaker
Ah, Kiara, okay. Okay, there we go, we got it. Unfortunately, I never hear it when anyone mispronounces it, because it's mispronounced all the time. So fair, so fair. You know, I just realized, I figured we should probably get that in the can early, now that we've known each other for almost 20 years. I know, it's disgusting. it's It's finally time for me to ask, so how do you say your name? I'm almost certain that's why most people growing up called me Kiki.
00:01:55
Speaker
Just avoid it. Yeah, just you know it's it's it's why I always know so many buddies. Yeah Let's let's dive right into this Kira What is something that is giving you joy this week?
00:02:11
Speaker
Oh, that's beautiful.
00:02:16
Speaker
What's something that's giving me joy this week? Okay. This is going to sound so sappy and I'm so sorry. Give it to me. So Saturdays are my bed day. And I like to spend as long as I possibly can on a Saturday in bed.
00:02:31
Speaker
where Where else would you want to be on a Saturday? I know, except I'm like an adult human, which means often that's not a possibility. wow you know So our routine on Saturdays, George gets up early. He takes the dog out, so the dog's not bothering me. The dog comes back to snuggle me, because dog also loves bed days. George then goes and makes me coffee and brings me coffee in bed. Then when I get hungry or peckish, he brings me snacks in bed.
00:03:00
Speaker
We do laundry on Sundays just so that people aren't worried about me eating crackers in bed. So that just makes me so delighted. And then normally he'll come back into bed and we'll have a little nap around 2 p.m. And those just light me up. I love Saturday bed days. That is incredible. I feel like everybody needs to take a serious, reoccurring bed day. Right?
00:03:25
Speaker
um I feel inspired by that. I'm not gonna lie. It's it's yeah You know, I don't take mindful bed days. Yeah, right like I end up just in bed that day. yeah yeah as i die Yeah My body just wouldn't let me get out of bed, you know, yes But I like the idea of like mindfully choosing and and kind of releasing the shame around it, right? Yeah And I think if you plan for it, like it's a treat. It's luxurious. Like he'll open the curtains because I really like the light coming through the window. And then we have like an all linen bed set up. So I just feel like I'm like Diane Keaton. You know, of allba name I feel like Diane Keaton.
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah, why did I go for that? Yeah, I mean knew the first Wives Club. Yeah, classic underrated, you know, so I just feel like this like rich old white lady in bed and That makes me very happy. That's fabulous. I love that. I I um Oh my god, now you've got me thinking about Diane Keaton as a thing. like Now my brain has completely derailed itself, and it's like, I'm flashing back to this time, i though the one and only time I ever went to Disneyland as a kid. um I saw Diane Keaton on the Jungle Cruise, or like the Jungle Tour. I was on the same boat as Diane Keaton, my god and she was a real, you know, really a real bee with an itch.
00:04:56
Speaker
which i We tried to like get a photo of her, but she could totally see and like ducked away. My mom was upset. oh no She was like, Annie Hall, how dare you? That is so sad, and I am so disappointed. So you heard it here first. Diane and I have beef.
00:05:14
Speaker
yeah oh ah So, you know, you've you've been on the show a couple times now, and so I was really struggling to come up with um sort of ah a structure for this episode. I know, I'm a really hard person to talk to. That's just it, right? You know, um and of course we end up like, you know, you came over and we've already been talking for an hour and a half um before we even hit record. And I feel like I've used up all my good material now. you know I know, yeah, it's going to be really mundane.
00:05:41
Speaker
but but One thing that has got me really excited is ah It's a much like comfier setting than usual, you know, like like we're out here. I know this is an audio an audio medium But like we're out here just lounging just lounging on our couch so nice last time we did this I was hiding in my closet with a comforter Over me I'd like built myself a tent. This is so much more comfortable. You'd like headband oh No, I even forgot about the headband because your headphones were broken, so you had to like keep them on your head with a headband. It was incredible. Such a good luck. I mean, you were a real trooper for that. I really appreciate you. Right? Exactly. Exactly. And I feel like that is a good kind of jumping off point for, you know, you know, as I mentioned off-handedly, like we've we've known each other for almost 20 years.
00:06:29
Speaker
And I like you more every day. The feeling is very much mutual. um and And I feel like our friendship is actually a really fascinating... I don't know if you would call it a case study or something. like it's just It's an example of a type of friendship that um I don't know... gets recognized as often as it might in the sort of narrative. um You know, from my perspective, and I'd really love to hear your your sort of your take on all this. It's like only on a podcast that you get to talk about what you think or like how you feel about the other person. Exactly. Exactly. Right. It's like what I find so fascinating is that it's like, you know, obviously we knew each other in school and we were friends, but I feel like we were friends in the sense of um we were friends in the sense of like.
00:07:15
Speaker
how you're friends with everybody in school yes you just know each other ah blanket friendship exactly and and then really through this show in a way was kind of where we reconnected and and since then i would say especially in the last you know two three years you've become like a rock for me, you know? For me too. Like irreplaceable, you know? Thank you. And I, yeah, how do you describe that kind of friendship? Like it's like a slow burn, you know? Yeah. I think sometimes when you see or participate in someone's life, even from the periphery, you're there for the moments of their life in a way that just breeds comfort.
00:08:04
Speaker
and you see them through these things and sometimes you talk to them and sometimes you don't. I don't know how to describe it. It feels very comfortable and like there's a natural flow to it.
00:08:20
Speaker
there was something to you know I said to you I think last year where I was like I know we see each other like once a month at best and I'm very bad at digging play but I still think you are my best friend It's so much, okay, so you just reminded me, I was like absentmindedly the other day trying to think of things that I'm good at, because I'm currently unemployed, um so. which Which honestly is the number one item on your list of what you're good at. Yeah. Is like, yeah, I'm so good, nobody will hire me. Look at me, I'm so good. Yeah, because like really, is it are you good at life or are you good at ah capitalism?
00:09:05
Speaker
yeah Oh, that's a good point. I'm not very good at capitalism. No one should be. But I was having a moment where I was thinking about it and I was like, oh my God, like if Chapel Rhone is your favorite musician's favorite musician, I'm your best friend's best friend.
00:09:22
Speaker
That's great. That's great. That's mostly what I'm focusing on. You're the Woody Guthrie of friends. Thank you.
00:09:32
Speaker
But no, that means so much to me because I think like you have such a special place in my life because we've been through some parallel experiences and it's so special to have either good things happen in your life or bad things happen in your life.
00:09:50
Speaker
and just have a name that brings you comfort or you know you can reach out to. And I know I said this to you the other day, but you keep improving or bettering our relationship because you keep showing me what I am allowed to do or what I can ask for, it and I really need that, so.
00:10:13
Speaker
It's beautiful to have a friendship where somebody sets a precedent or sets an example for you and you can just follow the structure that they've laid out. God damn. I mean, we're five minutes in. everybody's friends you know But it really it is. it is yeah ah in in In previous, kind of especially sort of seasons of the show, I've often gone back and forth with this idea of like quality over quantity. you know and And I think a lot of times um people get caught up in this narrative of, like if I'm not seeing you all the time, yeah we're not friends. you know like I have to be seeing you at least every week. We have to be doing stuff. We have to be this. We have to be that. yeah But it ends up, in my experience, um making for
00:11:00
Speaker
kind of a repetitive connection. Or or or maybe it's monotonous. I don't know. Maybe it's my ADHD. I don't know. Maybe I'm looking for novelty here. But it's like I find that with like someone like you who you know we might not touch base consistently. But when we do, it's always like, A, we're right back at it. But yeah B, it's like there's a depth to the connection that that you know doesn't come around very often.
00:11:24
Speaker
you know um and and I don't know I ah so far 10 minutes of this podcast has just been like us gushing about each other but it's like I can do this for four yeah fully yeah I mean buckle up listeners cuz this probably all it's gonna be but like it really you know I think um that idea is what I am chasing in in all my connections, which is that like I'm not somebody who can be consistent. yeah And I meet people in my life who recognize that and don't see that as some kind of failing on either part. Because that doesn't make you a bad friend. That doesn't make me a bad friend. It's just how my brain operates. Oh my gosh. That makes so much sense. Is that why her friendship works? I think so. I think so. you know And i guess I guess maybe I'm trying to PSA like, you know, um sometimes it's not that your friends are mad at you, it's that they're, you know, neurodivergent and forgot that you exist. Yeah!
00:12:22
Speaker
Also, I have this chronic thing where I do also think about people really regularly. like One of my big fears is a weird word to use for it, but one of my big fears is that people will realize how obsessed I am with them. um Because the people I love, I love a lot. And I do think about them so regularly. yep Somehow, it doesn't translate to contacting.
00:12:51
Speaker
those people? Yes. Weirdly, it's like an hour and a half long walk where I'm just like, Ming's incredible. I would die for Ming. Ming could have a kidney. Did I text Ming? No. Did I phone Ming? No. But it's an interesting thing to have that for me it feels like continuity because I do think about these people all of the time and I hope that they just know that or they feel that but then when I see them yeah
00:13:25
Speaker
It's almost that like, you know you know how like in people-pleasing tendencies, um the the shadow side of that is this expectation to read minds, right? yeah and then ah And then a resentment comes out of, yeah well, I didn't communicate with you, but you should know better, right? And and it almost feels like what you're talking about is like the the light side version of that. you know it's like It's like, you didn't read my mind, but I still love you. yeah
00:13:58
Speaker
um And I appreciate that because i i have the exact same but but I have the exact same condition. Whatever it is, I i you know i think often about the idea of neurodivergent limerants and the idea of like you know a limerant is deeper than a daydream. A limerant is something that like actually feels real in your body yeah because it's so vivid in your mind. so it's like You know you when you think this this is where things like parasocial relationships come from this is where all these like yeah You know um is that it's so real in your mind that it satisfies the physical need to actually have it in the real world okay that makes Exactly and and interesting and and I feel like I Have the exact same experience of like I'll i'll stop and I'll just be like oh man
00:14:45
Speaker
You know, whoever pops into my mind and I'll just be like that fucking hero that you know that absolute doll And then do I do anything about it? Absolutely not because I'm now Satisfied and I don't know what the balance of that is because I don't think you necessarily do have to do anything with it except that I do wanna make sure people know that I love them and think about them. Well, that's the other side of it, isn't it? Yeah. you know And then a part of me too is like, I think if I tell these people as regularly as I adore them and think about them. Well, they think I'm nuts. They are gonna think I'm nuts.
00:15:23
Speaker
I mean, so this is this is something Scott my boy ah we're where we talk about constantly is especially lately we're talking about like Discerning what part of me is at the wheel in the moment? Yeah, right because there's so many, you know when it comes to neurodivergence and especially when it comes to things like borderline there's so many fragmentary versions of yourself, you know and and they all hold a place of validity you know it's not like this is a bad part of me that needs to be ignored yeah it's like well this part of me has been conditioned to behave like this because underneath it is actually you know whatever it might be you know this angry version might actually just be like scared or sad you know um
00:16:09
Speaker
And so figuring out how to sort of discern who's at the wheel and what is their objective. Yeah. Right. And and that's where the idea of limerances is convenient to play for me, where it's like it's this idea of like, oh, I'll suddenly find myself in a daydream and I and I am working on discerning like, is this daydream something I want to just be with for a bit and enjoy and let it just kind of float away with me? Or is this something that I want to turn into something concrete? You know, whether it's like a an art project or whether it's contacting a friend, whatever it might be, you know? like and And both are valid. yeah But figuring out how to discern that, that's yeah really fucking hard. Yeah, what you want out of either of them. Exactly. What are the things you daydream about? Oh my god. um ah Off the top of my head, ah what if I had a successful podcast?
00:17:08
Speaker
ah like what if What would it be like to like have an actually like really successful podcast that like generated income and like people actually listened to and shared and were excited about and like you know ah building connections? you know um I daydream a lot about writing, about stories. i'm I'm really good at coming up with... ideas for stories, and then I really struggle with actually materializing them, you know? Yeah, um right especially hard yeah especially things like like essays. like I think of like twists on ideas, I think of like you know these kinds of things. I'm working on one right now that I, like in my head when I say working on, I have not put a single word to the page, but
00:17:47
Speaker
But it's like, you know, unpacking ideas that I find interesting and kind of analytical. But then I get terrified of them, right? Because then to materialize it means to risk failing, right? It means it's so lovely to think about and that not experience because its disappointment around, right? It's perfect in your mind. And even though it's terrifying in your mind as well, it's like it's unblemished. And and inevitably when it gets out of you,
00:18:14
Speaker
it's gonna have warts, right? And it's not gonna come out perfect. and you know um I think about, um I remember in in university I took ah a class about Bob Dylan. um It was one of the greatest summers of my life. Oh my goodness, yeah, I think we ran some real parallel. Right? Useless, but deeply useful. Deeply useful, right? But he described the the the songs in his mind as mercury he would be like I see them as like quicksilver or mercury just sort of floating through my mind and then when they get on the page then they become whatever the fuck else they actually become you know um but it's not like I just find that that disconnect so fascinating and I feel like it really illustrates like when I think of something it it feels different than how it actually manifests you know and that ah stops me often which sucks because that's
00:19:10
Speaker
Not yeah what an artist needs to do. But it's such a cool description. That's such a beautiful description of it. Yeah, I like it. What about you, do you, like, with with the the the idea of, like, deliverance and stuff, like, do you do you find yourself mostly daydreaming about, like, friend stuff, or like, what are you, what are you daydreaming about, Kiara? What do I daydream about so many things? ah Yeah, I think I do think of my people quite often, and I guess that's less of a daydream, but more sort of,
00:19:48
Speaker
putting in order what it is that I appreciate about them or what I think about them. sure How I might want to show up for them in a way that demonstrates it because I think I'm very aware. I love telling people how I feel about them and we so rarely have opportunities to show people.
00:20:05
Speaker
And I think often we keep those things to ourselves too, right? Like we deny people the opportunity to show up for us. yeah So trying to find ways that I can shove my way in there like a parasite. Well, it's like it's it's almost it's an art in a way. yeah Like being a friend or just connecting to people like it's an art form. Yeah. right And it's like you know you said to me just just now and you said it the other day when we're when we we're talking about like how I you You feel like I show you how you could show up yeah, and and I think that is kind of sending me in the thought in the thought of like um You know I've been talking recently about this idea of like you need to be the friend you want yeah you need to you know and and and it's also like this idea of um The way we sort of
00:20:57
Speaker
ah It's spider webbing my brain, so I'm kind of losing my words a little bit with it. But it's like it's like um sometimes we don't know what we need from other people. So if we practice it on others, yeah we almost will see how they react and we can almost like gauge. like is that something I'd want reciprocated you know um and we also we have to make those opportunities for ourselves right like we do like it's the same as anything like nobody's gonna like nobody's gonna sit you down and be like okay listen you haven't talked to your friends in a month so you should do this it's like we have to make that you know it's it's sort of the frustrating reality of life is that like it's so true I find like
00:21:39
Speaker
for somebody who thinks of themselves as relatively imaginative. It's a real failure of imagination on my part that so regularly there are sort of standbys or habits in my life that it doesn't occur to me to break until somebody else does something that I'm like, wait, we're allowed to ask that question. I didn't know we could ask. yeah like yeah You're allowed to ask to go to the bathroom in class? Why didn't anybody tell me I've been holding my bladder for three years my god more than that you should be no one should be allowed to ask they should just go like you just go pee go pee at your desk who cares societies make leave Peter desk you've heard how loudly IP I don't think I should be doing that
00:22:20
Speaker
You know, really spice up science class, you know? You know, be like, hey, teacher, get a load of this. But I think I love that idea that we also get to do these things. And I think this is like more of a particular to me thing in that I'm just not much of a rule breaker. So I'll really follow a structure. But I think seeing that in other people, seeing what they're doing or how they show up is such a beautiful gift to be like oh I would also like to receive that yeah yeah well and and the the practice I think I think witnessing people practicing it it's it's it's something that I have wanted to see more of ah ah I I link so much to writing into art in my mind but it's this idea of like for the longest time I always thought
00:23:11
Speaker
that the reason a work of fiction, let's say, you know, the reason a book is so powerful is because you just get the finished product, right? You just see the final edited perfect pristine, you know, whatever. And you don't realize how many drafts that took, how many edits that took, how many hours and days and sometimes years. Unless it's whoever is editing the Game of Thrones series, in which case there need to be more. I was going to say.
00:23:39
Speaker
I was going to say, in which case, you're dead already, so just give up. you know yeah But it's like, um I really like witnessing practice. And that's something I think i I've sort of um unintentionally implemented into a lot of my work. A lot of the poetry I post is kind of unedited, a lot of the, a lot of the podcasts I put out is pretty unedited. You know, it's like, it's, it's, I'm really personally, I'm really interested in the process. yes And I think that seeing the process demystifies it a bit, you know? And there's something in here so much about perfection. Like there's so much that were expected to come perfectly to something. yeah And I wish, or I think, and only recently, probably because somebody else showed me, ah Have I realized the strength is in being like, oh, I got that wrong. Can I try again? yeah Not in nailing it the first time. And it looks so much better than just trying to be perfect yeah all of the time. And the reason something looks easy is because that person practiced it. yes right you know i I think about you know fucking He's a shithead, but ah but but like Pablo Picasso always said it took him 50 years to learn how to draw like a child or whatever. So it's like, when you look at these great artists, like the reason it looks effortless is because they put so much effort into it. yeah and And I think it's really important to witness that effort. yeah you know and And I think it's really helpful for us to witness that effort, to like to see, oh, they didn't get it this time, and they tried it anyway. And that we have an expectation in adulthood that we should have mastered all of these things by now. And I keep trying to, and I said this to a friend yesterday, like, you just prioritized other things because they were on fire. Yes. You were triaging. So now you get to tackle whatever the new thing is that you want to face and you want to stare into the sun on.
00:25:43
Speaker
That's not embarrassing that you're doing that in your 30s. It just means you had other things you were triaging. It's just the time you got to it. Yeah. Well, and the and and this actually this leads me into this other thought I had of something we were talking about earlier ah before we were recording that I wanted to bring up is this idea of like The goal, even with practice and the goal of development is not perfection. Yeah. You know, it's not to be pristine and sleek and and utterly curveless or whatever the fuck aerodynamic, you know, it's like like the lumps are what make things pretty, you know.
00:26:16
Speaker
Right, you know and so it's like it's it's still not with the intention of perfection It's with the intention of doing it. You know like like it's like Was it crap on a kid who was like our our our purpose in life is to fart around? you know but that one i love that Right like it's like there is no fucking purpose the purpose is just like try shit see what happens cool fuck Yeah, you know And I always kind of hope that and not in a codependency way, but that when we see each other's messy unpolished side, it's so it's so much juicier. There's so much more to a friendship when we're not business professionals with each other. Like I find it can be so easy. I don't know if it's our culture or where we live or
00:27:07
Speaker
Just sort of when somebody asks you how you're doing be like never been better healthier than ever before lifting more weight yeah sleeping better thriving thriving and it's so Uninteresting and I don't mean that in a sense of like we all have to struggle for the art or something no But just in the sense of like if you're having a really good time, that's authentic Tell me about that, but in the messy way. Like it doesn't have to be perfect or polished. And if you're having a really tough time and you feel like sharing, that's great too. And I guess it's the polish that keeps people at an arm's length. And there's something about- It's sterile. Yeah. That we can kind of like share bacteria if, well, that was gross. I love it. Keep that thread going. Keep following it. I love it.
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah, but we are able to build our own biome if we can share in that stuff. And it's always that weird, strange stuff where somebody shares something with you that you're like, if you hadn't told me that, I wouldn't be able to tell my other friend who's dealing with XYZ that oh there's this cool thing somebody said that ah like I just had this conversation it was so useless yesterday I love you Alana this is you're not useless the conversation was just hilarious Alana was telling me about her hot feet her feet are always hot my friend Sam has hot knees
00:28:40
Speaker
I know, I have weird friends. I love this, I love this. You're friends with parts of the operation guy. Eventually I'll have one human body and I'm collecting all of your pieces.
00:28:53
Speaker
and i just it like there's No, so why are we talking about Alana's hot feet? But then she had these exercises. She was like, I think it has to do with nerves. And so if I do this series of stretches, it actually feels like it helps. And I was like, you saying that I can now go tell Sam about her hot knees and just share this little thing. And maybe it helps her knees and maybe it doesn't. yeah She knows that I was thinking about her and I loved her in a moment. She wasn't in front of me. Yes.
00:29:23
Speaker
I think there's something beautiful about sharing those like mundane or messy parts because we're all just like collecting little pebbles to share with the other penguins. Yes 100% I talk about it all the time pebbling I'm always about I'm always about pebbling because it's like that's kind of all I have the capacity for.
00:29:43
Speaker
but you also you know this this this loosing back to something you shared this really beautiful story of your grandma and and weaving and and the idea of like the idea of the lumps in in in the string could could you explain that story that's so sweet thank you yes my grandmother was like a master craftsman she did amazing spinning like she'd die the wall spin it and then weave it all in her basement she had a huge loom in her basement so when she first taught me how to
00:30:19
Speaker
hand div the walls spin it just look at your grandma's the fucking queen of ithacas definitely a witch ah
00:30:29
Speaker
And she taught me how to like dye the wool spin it and weave it and as I like professional perfectionist. I was so bothered that it didn't look as good as hers because she was so masterful at it. And I would get upset because when you spin, when you first learn to spin, the like yarn will develop these little lumps because you can't have the same tension or consistency. Also, I had child fingers. yeah Oh my God, I was a part of child labor. um
00:31:03
Speaker
So you're learning how to spin, and you've got all of these little lumps. And then when you weave the lumps, like we were making placemats, they have all of these slubby little like nubbins through yeah these placemats. And I was getting really frustrated with it, and Grandma said, you know when the more you do this, the less you will ever be able to reproduce this. Professional spinners and weavers are never able to get this texture again. So as much as you might be frustrated right now,
00:31:30
Speaker
This is precious because it's rare and the more you do it the less you'll be able to recreate it And I love that idea that as you work on something those attempts are what make them Precious or rare and more valuable she said like because it's so hard to do Pieces that have these lumps in them are way more costly Because they're far more rare and it's so hard to produce so I just, I love that so much. It's so cool, I keep trying to apply it to other areas of my life, but. Like I'm really bad at this right now, but eventually. Someday those lumps are gonna come out and I'm gonna miss them. Yes, exactly.
00:32:19
Speaker
OK, I have a question for you. OK. And this is one that I've been asking a lot of friends because it turns out I just like to crowd source material. I don't know. perfect How else do we learn? Literally. But I'm really curious for your thoughts on this.
00:32:35
Speaker
So um'm I've been wondering or I've been asking friends, what is the impact on them or the effect on them when someone comes to them struggling or with a problem or asking for help? Because I've heard a couple of different things and people have really diverse answers on this one.
00:32:58
Speaker
And I'm just trying to figure out how weird I am. It's totally selfishly motivated. yeah um So i can I'm really curious about yours because we've actually had a walk where we touched on this a little tiny bit.
00:33:13
Speaker
When someone comes to you with something like I have one friend who it's so beautiful. She just takes it on. Yeah, she really takes it on and you can ruin her day. You can ruin her week. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:30
Speaker
And subsequently, I think it means she also really keeps her problems to herself because she's aware that it can have this reciprocity almost. Yeah, because she doesn't want to ruin my day. She doesn't want to ruin my week. And obviously we all have these different experiences, my experience, and i' I'm not a sociopath.
00:33:54
Speaker
We know this, don't worry. We do, we do. yeah
00:34:00
Speaker
I can feel sympathy in the moment and I can feel compassion and I will still think about them, not in that moment. Nobody can ruin my day but me. That's great. And I'm very good at ruining my own days. Yes. But I guess when she'll share a problem with me or an issue like that'll break my heart in that moment and then life continues and I feel this sense of like but I know she's got it. Yeah.
00:34:31
Speaker
How do you process somebody coming to you like what side of the? Fencer or fielder you in this that's such a great question and and it's it it it takes my mind into a few different directions like kind of immediately sort of You know computing and thinking to moments where that's happened with me and I think
00:34:55
Speaker
when my initial feeling when somebody comes to me with a problem is an almost in a weird way a it's a compliment because it's like oh this person trusts me and that's really beautiful and so much gratitude for yeah being in this person's life in that way exactly so it's like it's like It feels like a responsibility, and it feels like, you know, it feels like a compliment. It feels like a validation of, like, okay, this person's struggling, and they trust me with this. yeah And that's incredible. um And yeah, it doesn't tend to invade the rest of my day. yeah um um I think it's more to do with, like, my lack of emotional object permanence.
00:35:40
Speaker
um oh that's been so it's like it's like if it's not in front of me it doesn't exist yeah you know um um but when i'm in it i'm in it with them yeah i and i yeah yeah you know i like i like helping i'm a big fan of Validating and I'm a big fan. Thank you. Thank you um You know, i I like validating. I like ah problem-solving. I like being part of the solution um But yeah, once it's done and over with I tend to just go about my day yeah um um On the flip side though um I
00:36:16
Speaker
don't offer that same um understanding or kindness to myself and in like in asking for help. Because despite my knowing what it feels like in my body, I still have all the narratives in my head of all ruin somebody's day, nobody wants to hear from me. I'm a burden. I'm a burden. Exactly. All that shit. Right. So so I will. It takes a lot for me to reach out to someone, you know, and I and I I often get caught up in my own internal narratives of like, well, you've been doing therapy so long, you know better. You should just use your tools. You should just do this. You should just do that. And why isn't that working? It must be because you're dumb and da da da da da da da da da. Right. We're so nice to ourselves. My god, I literally am so nice to my stupid fucking self, you know, just be happy you fucking idiot Where'd all that money on therapy go, you know
00:37:22
Speaker
uh yeah so i definitely don't it's not a it's not a two-way street in that regard you know what would i mean this is probably too big a question but what would bridge that gap for yourself is it just a matter of practice and and having it received by other people as not being a burden or Yeah, I think it's i I mean, I mean, in theory, yes. Right. yeah In theory, it's it's trying it and having it go well and then trying it to have go well yeah and having it keep going well. um Or if it goes poorly, have it not like.
00:37:57
Speaker
blow everything up because it's like you know in in in recent in recent times there's been ruptures with friends that have just then ended that friendship yeah and these are people who I would go to yeah or who would come to me and then there were these ruptures and now they're just gone right yeah and so that then Cascades into me not trying again with others. Yeah, you know So I think it's a matter of like being brave. Yeah, and at the same time too. It's like That's the pragmatic answer. You know the the the answer my brain wants to give is child inside your brain saying Exactly. Because yeah, my brain is telling me, oh, you just need a new brain. You just need to be dead. Because why you would try? Like, you've already- The lobotomy would solve all of this. Exactly. Oh, God. The dream. Just fucking spike me up, doc. I'll hold my eyelids open for you. For you. Help! Just give I'll me the pick. I'll do it myself. Who cares if I slip? Can I ask you another question? Of course you can! Okay, so what is your process?
00:39:12
Speaker
When you have something that's bothering you or you have a big event in your life or anxiety about something, because I always think this is interesting too. We all have our own ways of dealing with things. And I think similar to the unscientific love languages, yeah sometimes what we offer isn't necessarily what we like receiving. That's right. Yeah.
00:39:34
Speaker
And I'm so curious, too, because I think people have these different processes that they go through, and I so desperately want to be there for my friends. Like, I think it is, I take that responsibility really seriously, that if someone was like, if I call you at 3 a.m., I'm like, I'm in a cab. yeah it Regardless. yeah And then for myself, when I'm really struggling, I like a fair amount of space. Yeah, i I'm very similar. i I don't receive love the same way I give it. and
00:40:09
Speaker
i I mean, I don't believe in the love languages yeah nonsense because they're nonsense. Thank you. Because they are. It's like sometimes when we talk, I'm like, do we have a shared brain? Like, honestly, though, because it's just it's it's the same as, you know, I mean, it's not quite as um what's the word. It's not quite as gag inducing as like, you know, I think attachment theory holds a lot of water.
00:40:32
Speaker
And I think that the idea behind the love language is full of water. I think it's helpful to have a discussion about anything. Like I, my mom is amazing, mental health professional. Sorry. Now she calls herself a farmer.
00:40:48
Speaker
yeah No notes. But she would do this thing often where she would love reading people's tarot. She puts no stock or science in it. Do you call it tarot? Yes. What do you call it? Tarot? Oh my God. Okay. Is it properly tarot? I have no idea. i I'm going to call it tarot for now. I love it.
00:41:11
Speaker
Watch, I'm going to change the pronunciation like six more times in this conversation. at Tear off. So anyway, it's ter trotting. um So I always really liked this perspective of hers where she would say like, let's read some cards on it. And she would treat it like a coin toss.
00:41:27
Speaker
If you don't know your own mind, this will reveal your subconscious. yeah Because if I tell you, oh, the cards say to make this decision and you feel disappointment, now you know something about yourself. yes And I always kind of liked that idea. for these sort of flimsy things like love languages or something like it's not helpful and to hang your hat on it entirely useless but I like the idea that at least it starts a conversation that's right it it it opens people up to I just find that more often than not, people stop there. Yes, oh, entirely. And it's like, no, that's the first question. That's not the answer, you know? Yeah. And because it's like, yeah, it's like, you know, of course I like getting gifts. Of course I like being touched. Of course I like hanging out with people. Imagine the person who's like... No. Acts of service, because my mother keeps buying me vitamins and I wish she wouldn't. Yeah. And she says that's gifts and acts of service and I think she's a dick. Yeah, yeah, literally. Yeah, an act of service is listening to me, mom. You know?
00:42:28
Speaker
ah But that's what I mean is that it's like I read them and I'm like I like all of these and I like doing all these So am I a mutant? Am I selfish or is this bullshit? Yeah, like but I think I think in terms of was What was the question exactly so like circling back to I what is your process when you're going through something? And what is that thing that sparks it in you to speak to someone else or reach out to a friend? Yeah, um, so I am deeply mentally ill. It's so pretty. what um my My process tends to be shut down. yeah ah Disassociate to video games. um Stop showering. ah Don't get out of bed for a while. Forget to eat. um Ignore
00:43:20
Speaker
text messages ah get really fixated on sharing memes. oh yeah you can really you know for For listeners, um you can really gauge where my mental health is at by how many memes I shared in my story that day or week. you can really The more I'm sharing, the less well I'm doing. They've done studies on this, hey? They're little micro-cries for help. yeah Every single one is just a tiny little call for help. you know And the fact that none of you are answering,
00:43:48
Speaker
So rude. Yeah, she says a lot about you, you know just I'm just saying open your eyes sheeple wake up, you know ah my My healthier version of that though my therapist version of that um Is you know actually like at at the time of recording? um This week I finally I've been on the wait list for like six months I'm finally starting a dbt group therapy and I'm so fucking excited about it and So my answer might be very different in the coming months. Yes, but um But right now what I do is I journal um To get it kind of out of my brain first and I get it sort of clear um and then I'll text someone who I feel safe with and I like to ask I always like to ask before yeah, you're really good about that
00:44:36
Speaker
Cuz I just I I've had people who are just like it's out of the boots 2 p.m. I mean Jesus Christ That's how I got fucking divorced. It was it was 2 in the afternoon on Thursday Yeah, and and and she was like, hey, can we facetime real quick? And I tell you some devastating news that will change your entire life She was like, hey, could we could we facetime real quick? I was like sure I've got a board meeting in a couple minutes, but let's chat hop on a facetime and it was like Hey, by the way, I want a divorce so, you know um Not a great setup, you know, but um but like I like to ask and say like hey this is this is going on, yeah do you have time to talk about it? And then if they do, awesome, I call, we talk. If they don't, I say, absolutely cool, yeah no pressure, like I'll, i' i'll you know, it's not. And it's not rejection to what you're going through. That's right, that's right. It's checking in and hearing, oh, I don't have time right now, but.
00:45:23
Speaker
And it also we it could be, I don't have the space to talk about this at all. like it's it's never It never comes with the expectation of, I've reached out to you, so you must be my support. yeah It's always with the like, could you be a support? Every relationship is a choice. This is what I've learned, is that every relationship, you're it's not you don't have to be in a relationship with anyone.
00:45:42
Speaker
I don't I don't I haven't spoken to my mother in years. I like you don't have to be in connection or a relationship with anyone yeah you have ever met. Yeah, no matter who you society tells you they are to you. You choose to be connected to everyone. And so and so um like when I ask for support, it's not with the um what's the word like ah it's not with the prerogative that they that they must support. yeah It's not conditional. Exactly. Yeah, it's like it's like you're somebody who I trust could you help? You know and if they can't fuck yeah, we'll talk another time But right now this is what I'm in so you truly get that sense Yeah from you to when you reach out with that stuff like this does seem genuinely It's so odd or so rare with someone that you're like I could say no to this person
00:46:32
Speaker
what is that yeah well that's i mean that's i'm a woman in her 30s i can say notice someone that's literally literally and i mean and i mean i think the reason i put that out is because i am i have historically been so afraid to say it myself yeah you know and so like i i have been in a lot of really fucking bad situations where I did not think I could say no yeah and and um and I'm you know I'm living with the consequences of that yeah um but but knowing you know it's that it's that meme no is a complete sentence you know and and it and it and it's
00:47:14
Speaker
it's not a no is not a sign of disrespect it's not a rejection hope it's not a abandonment it's just it's just no yeah it's all it is it's innocuous it's two little words and we read judgment into it doesn't actually contain necessarily that much meaning that's just it and you have to be so much you know it's like it's like it's just no yeah that's all it is but what narrative you apply to it is what it becomes yeah right And so you have to be really careful around what you're telling yourself about what people are telling you. know Exactly. And what I think is really amazing too is when you give people the option, like I think this is the beauty of being inside the messiness of life rather than outside on the polished edge.
00:48:00
Speaker
When you give somebody the opportunity and they feel totally comfortable to say no, you know when they say yes. It's such an enthusiastic yes. Bingo. yeah And they really mean it. It's authentic. Yeah. You know? And that's the thing. i'm i'm I'm all I want in my life and all I want from the people in my life is authenticity. yeah And if you authentically don't give a fuck,
00:48:19
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, you don't have to yeah you know like and if you authentically want to show up That's what I want because I yeah i just I've had too much inauthenticity in my life. There's there's just been too much surface There's been too much saying one thing and doing another there's been too much of all that shit for me to ever Want that again? Yeah, you know yeah and and you can smell it you oh my god. It's like a fuck you know You know I I have in recent months become really reluctant around using terms like narcissists and stuff like that. I think they're way overused. I yes i think there is definitely a reality to the condition. But I think like somebody being a dickhead doesn't necessarily make them narcissists. And you can diagnose everyone and their dog with it. Exactly. Exactly. And and um you know, maybe it's the fact that I got diagnosed with a cluster B disorder. I don't know. But um but like um I think that why did I bring that up?
00:49:17
Speaker
um the The idea behind like the narratives we create around people and the idea of, um we're hurt and it must be their fault. It couldn't possibly be because i and making you know I'm hurting my own feelings. It couldn't possibly be because of the narrative I've invented around. you know um And the history of experiences that we have that You know, I think I've been talking a lot recently about collecting bad data Mm-hmm, and I want to keep reminding myself that I'm like yeah But you're collecting bad data right now because you're looking for a certain outcome and then working in reverse to prove it That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that's you know, I teach all about agile thinking yeah you know and and it it's this idea of like
00:50:07
Speaker
what you think works for you right now, but it might not always. And so it's about being prepared to take in new information and change, yeah you know? totally um and And, you know, some people call that flip-flopping and because, you know, politicians will lie. yes but But like, personally, in in the real world, I don't think there's such a thing as a flip-flopper.
00:50:31
Speaker
You know, I think there's just I got new information and I changed my mind. Yeah, you know, yeah. George likes to hit me over the head with that. Is it a Voltaire quote? When the facts change, I change. What do you do? Exactly. You know, and and so it's and I think that's what we have to be, you know, well, OK, let me watch that language. We don't have to do anything. But I think that's what I i want to do. And that's what I would like to be around is yeah people who um are willing to explore when they're wrong.
00:51:00
Speaker
you know and willing to say, oh, I didn't know that, and are willing to shift, yeah and are and are willing to not dig in because it's so much easier to just dig in yeah and just say, nope, this is what I think I'm done. you know And it's like, that's so so boring. I know. And we only have our own experience. like I guess that's why I've been so curious about asking friends these questions.
00:51:23
Speaker
I'm so limited with my little world. I want other people's brains involved because they I will never know enough myself so it's so interesting to hear from someone else's perspective and I'm seeing right now when friends raise an issue with me or I've disappointed them or I've done something that hurt their feelings.
00:51:43
Speaker
What a gift that is. I mean firstly the level of badassery you have to be to like stand up for anything to one of your friends. yeah Yep. Yep. And then secondly it's like I literally I will not learn if people don't share their perspective. Well also me also oh my god what you just made me think of is like if you're scared of talking to your friends you're not friends with them. You're not very good friends with them. you know yeah like That's not your friend. If you're scared to talk to them about something that upset you, you know like that's a sign of a much deeper fucking problem. you know Because I've dragged my family to family therapy. Go team.
00:52:24
Speaker
You brave soul. ah I just stopped talking to them. I mean, it's always on the table. um We were talking because my sibling and I are very close. And we were talking about conflict resolution because conflict goes so well with them. And that it is this sense like, firstly, how do you notice that a conflict is happening?
00:52:49
Speaker
how do you repair it and I think so much of it is just there's very little like ego involved in it just deep love for this other person so when this other person comes to me and is like oh yeah so this thing happened the other day and this was my takeaway from it or my thought about it your response isn't Well, you're wrong or that stupid but to be like I am getting access to this whole other brain outside of myself Which has intelligence and lessons and somehow I've made this all about me and validity That like my first thought is like I love this person so much. I just want to hear what happened for them I don't need to say anything myself. I just want to know what's happened for them. Well, and someone, you know, I something that I am working on is this idea of like someone coming to you with their experience is not an invalidation of yours. Yeah, totally. You know, you choose to be invalidated. You choose to be exalted, you know, and I think I think that.
00:53:55
Speaker
you know I think especially from like ah you know a mask perspective, yeah is this you know it it roots back to that idea from like the get-to-fear of like you know women are afraid men will kill them, yeah men are afraid that women will embarrass them. right you know i think I think men are are conditioned to you know to be proven wrong is essentially like emotional death. yeah yeah right and so it's like you know I think this idea of like reassessing and getting new information and changing, that's like admitting you were wrong, which is like, oh no, I can't be provider, I'm not big boy, so I must be dead, so yeah the young cub is coming up to get me, you know? And it's like, no, no, you we're not in the fucking jungle. You're a fucking accountant, you know, like. Yes, like there is no lion. There's no lion, there is no lion. you right There's this beautiful thing that George, George is my honey. George. If you're nasty. If you're nasty.
00:54:49
Speaker
oh And can pronounce it correctly unlike me good old georgia He often says this thing in conflict be it like in the stuff that's come up around family therapy or in conflict with Friends that he's like if this is someone that you love and you know you like if you think they're insane or totally out to lunch. But you also believe that they're a reasonable person. All that's lacking is information. So you just have to get that information. Get curious. It's not that suddenly you no longer recognize them and they're not the person you ever were in a relationship with. It's just that you're lacking the information because once you have it, you will actually see where they're coming from. And you don't have to agree with it.
00:55:42
Speaker
no But you will understand where they're coming from. And I think that's such a cool, beautiful idea of like, look, if I already love and respect this person, it's not that they are Jekyll and Hyde. It's just that I don't have enough information.
00:56:04
Speaker
All right, ah we we are watching the time a little bit, um but just so that you're not starting off every segment, which I love, but I realize that you're so good at this, you're kind of doing my job for me. You phoned me, that were true. but But you have one other question that we wanted to get into this episode. Yes, absolutely. OK, so I've been thinking a lot. My parents are aging. They had me quite late in life and friendships are so important in those years, ah like really important.
00:56:38
Speaker
Do you have any thoughts about what friendship would mean to you in your late 70s or 80s? What does friendship look like to you? and Do you have any ideas? I'm so putting you on the spot with no preparation. I love this. How do you build that now? Yeah.
00:56:53
Speaker
for a lasting Friendship in those years where you do that support or the knowledge of each other's lives is so much deeper Okay, I can I can the first part of it um like I always It makes me think of my grandparents. ah My grandma and grandpa had friends that they'd known, you know, they they both died, you know, late 80s, early 90s. And like they knew their friends like 80 years, you know, that's amazing. Some of them, at least some of them, yeah you know, um and they had, you know, they had friends that they'd known since they were teenagers, since they were, you know, and and everything like that. and
00:57:34
Speaker
And it was a matter for them of like making a point to see people, you know, um yeah my grandpa every morning, every morning would walk to the McDonald's down the street from him. He lived like two blocks away from McDonald's. He'd get a coffee and some kind of breakfast and he would sit with all the old timers and they would chat and catch up, talk the news. it was It was the greatest. Sometimes he would take me, you know, as a kid. And obviously at the time I was bored, you know, it wasn't like and I knew how magic that was at the time. I was like, no, I was eight years old. Terrible. Yeah. He looks awful. Yeah. I was like, this is boring as fuck. You're just talking about the news. yeah I've finished my happy meal. I'd like to go home now, grandpa. You know, but um but looking back, I'm like, that's that's incredible.
00:58:20
Speaker
It's so interesting that you'd say that specific example too because I just read an article the other day, and this time I actually read it and it wasn't just Instagram, and they were saying the hard part of adult friendships, this was another question that we're just going to have to set aside for another time because I have too many questions for you. Next episode, yeah. I am the captain now.
00:58:44
Speaker
that they were saying the way you build adult relationships is through play. It's the same way you build childhood relationships. yeah We just don't do that as adults. That's right. Yeah. But for adults to go to McDonald's and have your coffee with your friends and talk about the news, yeah that's your play. That's the thing that you do as a grown up. And I just think that what a cool thing. That's right. Because, you know, he didn't show up as his job. right yeah and this is the thing I think a lot of people you know in in our it age demographic like we make friends with the people we work with because they're the only people we have time to be around yes you know and and but we're not necessarily like I don't find I make friends with the people at work yeah it's after work yes you know yeah we go out and and whatever you know and then you build those connections that would yeah but like you sounds like you've had more serious jobs than I have
00:59:40
Speaker
Well, that's probably debatable, but, you know, I i i don't stick around very long. but um But it's like, you know, you don't really make friends at work. You make friends at play, right? And you work you make friends at off time, you know, when you're just yourself, yes right? um And I think, ah you know, it's it's funny because it's like, I think I'm arguing for a type of behavior that I don't necessarily have the capacity for right now which is consistency and which is like you know planning which or which is or which is maybe not necessarily playing because it's not like they planned it you know but like it's like seeing something works and keeping on doing it right you know yeah my my grandpa had this other thing he always went to this thing every Tuesday it was a luncheon called the Knights of the Roundtable what
01:00:26
Speaker
Right, and it was like I mean I think it was literally just like a bunch of business people who just like would have lunch and Like talk like like give speeches and stuff it was like probably some like one of them was named Galahad But we didn't ask any questions right like honestly I feel like it was like a baby Illuminati in a way like you know cuz it was like just in fucking Calgary But it was like probably just like business people who just like and it was probably like an all men's thing like I'm sure it was deeply problematic on so many levels but like every Tuesday for six years to the point where like Before my grandma died. she She had dementia when she died and she like she's if it was if we saw her on a Tuesday And we said it was a Tuesday. She'd be like, oh is her about the nights? you know like
01:01:09
Speaker
like Like he had gone so consistently for so long whether literally even in the depths of dementia she remembered the night I don't know no you are but if it's Tuesday ah Exactly, you know, so I think I think it's just like finding something that works and sticking to it, right? yeah know um And I think that element to like something that you're describing here as well Isn't even necessarily consistency, but it's maybe also something like that trip to McDonald's. Maybe he would have done that anyway. Yeah and I find it somebody who really struggles with like Set plans and I need a certain flexible schedule. Yeah that maybe the play to me is like I have one friend who just Periodically will be like I'm going to Costco. Do you want to come with me? Yes Yeah, I'm like I have to shop. Anyways, you have to shop. Anyways. Yeah, let's do the shopping together and then it's low stakes low-cost Yeah, like yeah, yeah I think I think that I think it's it's like sharing the load, right? It's it's pulling a Samwise Gamgee. You just share the load, you know, right? Like it's like, I think that's actually, those are some of my favorite things to do is exactly what you're describing. It's like, I have to go do this thing. Hey, do you want to come with me? You know, like, I am your DMV friend. yeah I will wait in the DMV, which we don't have, but know but you know what I mean. Yeah. But it's like, you know, I remember like, yeah, like I actually, Costco is a perfect example of, you know, cause it's like, I'll never go to Costco alone.
01:02:29
Speaker
But going with a friend, love one of the best days of the week. yes you know so true That's how I ended up with a giant Snorlax pillow. you know like I went with Gavin and it was like, of course I'm going to buy a fucking Snorlax pillow. you know like And we're going to drive him home like he's our son. yeah Of course we're men. Baby's got to be safe. Exactly. know what we're about but uh but but yeah it's it's I think it's sharing yeah it's sharing activities beyond work I think is a really key and yeah and and then just like Just staying alive, you know, I think I think that's the other side You know the second part of your question about like about the maintaining thing. I think it's like Because by the end of it my grandpa was one of the last and like he He watched all of them go and he would get he got real like by the end. He was really morose He was very melancholic and and and you know, and all he could talk about was like oh buried so and so this week, you know, and so like so there's this part of me that's like I I'm not sure if I want to be the first to go or the last to go. Don't worry, we're not healthy enough to be the last to go. I always think about like, oh yeah, my grandparents all had pretty good life expectations. They all made it pretty late, but they didn't have vapes.
01:03:43
Speaker
you know like They didn't have they didn't have microplastics in there in every fucking sperm sample ever tested a microplastic we're fucked we're And then ah my parents are so healthy they're so healthy they're so active i Cannot stop myself from eating an entire can of sweetened condensed milk. Oh my god. I did like Oh my god my my dad this I was literally just thinking about this. It was my dad's birthday this week. Yeah, and ah you know i Chatter with him. He sent me some pictures. He looks fucking great
01:04:16
Speaker
He's in his 70s, he looks like, he looks 20 years younger than than he his age. But he bikes all the time, he swims, he's a vegetarian. Oh, they work so hard for it. He's like he's doing the work and it shows, yeah it pays off. And you know and i ah my first instinct is like, man, I can't you know i can't wait to get old because I'm gonna look like that. And then it's like, no, James, I'm gonna look like one of my uncles who like looked like he got one foot in the grave when he was 40.
01:04:44
Speaker
you know like like and didn't make it as long as long as my dad did you know so so it's like you know if you want that you got to work for it you know yeah because even you know even the celebrities who are all fucking half plastic whatever they're you know taking their ozone pic or whatever like like they they also have nutritionists and They're also working very, very hard. Exactly, exactly. it yeah It takes a little work to look that fake, yeah you know yeah you know? So like, it's you're not going to just be able to plastic surgery and wear Botox it away or some shit, no you know? no So, yeah. So I'm fucked, basically. Yeah. so So friends, that is the old age.
01:05:20
Speaker
Don't count on me, no you know? I think that's really, I think I'm gonna die lonely. You're for a good time, not a long time. Yeah, I think I'm gonna die real quietly alone. um I used to always joke that I hoped I died screaming, um because at least like at the very end, I'd like be really alive. But then I realized what a dark statement that is, you know? So dark. Yeah, yeah. yeah and And now I've realized I really just wanna die quietly surrounded by cats, you know? Ooh, I like that. That's great. yeah But I think you've touched on something that is such a challenge of aging. It's like the more you open your heart to people, the more you will be hurt. What a vulnerable thing to go through in old age. I mean, as Scott loves to say, every relationship ends. yeah there's no There's no relationship that works out. Because whether by choice or by death,
01:06:14
Speaker
Every relationship ends, you know? So it's not a matter of getting so white-knuckled of like making it work because yeah it never no relationship will work out in the end yeah because we it will always end, you know? so So let it go, you know?
01:06:30
Speaker
um Well, on that cheery note, ah here you are just, I just, i i i I struggle to find the words for how much I love you. And so just saying, so mutual you know, like it's like, it's like just saying, oh, I love you. Like just like doesn't feel like enough. now But it's all I got. And um I just want to say thank you for coming on last minute. And um what a treat. What a fucking treat. um I am really hopeful to get you back on again soon. at love we are gonna where we we for listeners We literally paused the recording halfway through, and we're like, should we just make this a thing? um I cried, so that was pretty normal. so We're in talks. You might be hearing Kiara much sooner than than expected, but um but we'll be in talks.
01:07:27
Speaker
Before that I just yeah, I want to say thank you. I want to say I love you I want to say how just magic I think you are and just just what an incredible human you are and um I want to leave listeners. I always like to Create some false sense of value at the end of the episode ah no fall thank you So I like to try and list leave listeners with an actionable step that they could try out this week if they were so inclined um What is one thing you would recommend listeners do to try and be a better friend this week?
01:07:57
Speaker
Oh, I mean, that's a great question and one that you haven't prepped me for. I hate the word better though. I'm always like, I'm always like, I want to be like a more, a more, a more engaged friend. Maybe that's a better way of putting it. Yeah.
01:08:10
Speaker
you know Oh, that's such a good, no, interesting, wow. I have so many thoughts. I think one of the things, and this is gonna sound so superficial, but one of the things that you had said earlier about posting your memes to your stories, I've found, especially with those friends who are long distance or you're not in as much contact with as you want to be or perhaps feel you should be because I am very bad at consistency,
01:08:41
Speaker
Object permanence is fine. It's so many of those things are openers. And to use those as an opportunity to just shoot that person a little message to check in to say hi. I kind of think, you know, when I was last dating there weren't apps.
01:09:02
Speaker
But I'm intrigued by them, and from what I hear, Hinge gives you prompts. It can, yeah. That you can like jump in on, and I guess I've kind of been seeing friends' Instagram stories as prompts.
01:09:19
Speaker
Oh my god, I love this. You do? Yes. Because I think it sounds so superficial. But to look at that, like when someone posts something, and because people don't have expectations around it, it seems like a lower barrier thing to be like, oh, I can like their story and I can shoot them a little comment. And it doesn't have to be like, there's no expectation on there. And they don't have to, they can just hurt it if they don't want anything more. But it's a little start of a conversation, a little prompt. Yeah.
01:09:48
Speaker
I love that. ah Especially because I wasn't kidding. They are cries for help. So like if you see me sharing a lot, I'm not okay. like Send a prompt. Someone, please, please reach out. um But also, like I know that there are friends in my life who, you know for instance, like on my on my ah um my poetry account, yeah there's two friends who consistently like everything. Yeah. Christine and Darcy, I want to show you out because I love you both. And and like they're always, always engaged. Yeah. and it's like That just means the fucking world, you know? Isn't that amazing? I don't want to challenge them because they're perfect, but I want to challenge other people to do more than just like, you know, like you say, use it as a prompt for a conversation, for an actual connection.
01:10:34
Speaker
and to like yeah even if it is just a little like that's funny or if it's just something it doesn't like I think for me it's like sometimes it feels like oh to reach out is like too much of it but like exactly i could literally change someone's day Just to say hi. And I know it's so silly because we talk about social media and it is like feels so rapid and so superficial. But if it is a way that we're connecting, especially for long distance friends, yeah like I never share to stories and I never do anything. And I was ganged up on into posting some stories over last weekend.
01:11:16
Speaker
and I heard from people that I haven't heard from in years and there's something about that because I had that realization then for myself where it felt so good to get little messages from people or even just funny little coincidences. Like one of my really good friends in the UK had coincidentally just texted me like, are you mostly pumpkin spice at this point? And I had just posted that I was like having the biggest pumpkin spice of weekends yeah and that feeling of being like somebody knows me. It's so beautiful. And then I had this realization that for me, that was a really easy way because I do feel a certain amount of shame for not like if I let too much time pass and that if you can use someone's social media or stories to reach out, it like eliminates that. So I've contacted you out of the blue and nothing's wrong. I promise. Yeah. But how are you? I mean, in okay, so that puts my brain in two different directions. One, that's kind of the impetus for this show, is being like, oh, there's no other way for me to say, hey, I wanna talk to you, other than like, hey, come be on my podcast. yeah But the other thing is, it makes me think of like, it's almost like sliding into someone's DMs, but for good. You know? Like, like don't use it for evil. Don't use it to send dick pics unprompted. Use it to validate someone's day and make them feel seen, i won't you know? Stop sending me all those dick pics, Keira, you know?
01:12:37
Speaker
Well don't, but you know um ah some of them are impressive. But but you know it's it's yeah, like sliding to the DMs for good, not for evil. And that it is a little spark in someone's day that is pretty low effort. Exactly. Truly, if you're not at high capacity.
01:12:54
Speaker
That's just it. That's just it. You know, a hello isnt doesn't have to be a fucking conversation. right Unburden yourself. Exactly. ah Kira, you're you're just you're the best. Such a delight, James. I feel like every time we talk, I walk away feeling lighter and more curious about the world. And what a gift to have a friend that time in their company like lasts a week after you see them. That's such a beautiful, like I walk away with this energy from you. That's so beautiful. oh Thank you. I love you so much. The words fall so short. but Thank you so much. i yeah i am I'm just i'm just goingnna stop recording here because I don't know what to say. Thanks everybody. Bye.
01:13:57
Speaker
And that's it. Thank you so much to Kiara for coming on the show. I just, I love her. I love her with my whole heart. I'm so grateful to be her friend. And, um, yeah, I, we literally, after we ended recording, we got talking about all kinds of collaboration and stuff we might be doing. So who knows? You might be hearing from Kiara much sooner than, uh, expected.
01:14:18
Speaker
If you like the show, as always, please be sure to give it a five-star review anywhere you listen and share the episode. Share the links, share the posts, let people know about the show. um I'm trying really hard to create a little bit of ah a new kind of outreach program, I guess maybe you could call it, just to try and kind of get some new listeners, get some new exposure on the show.
01:14:39
Speaker
and uh... every little bit helps so if you want to help the show grow uh... share the posts share the episodes let people know what from assault is all about and bring it let him let it come on in fellas the waters five ah What the fuck am I saying? I don't know. The long-promised sub-stack reboot is still in the works. It is coming. ah Be sure to sign up for it in the show notes. um There's tons of fun stuff that I've got planned that are coming very soon. I just have had a little bit of a chaotic September ah and October and 2024.
01:15:16
Speaker
So it's coming, I swear, but but you don't want to miss it. Sign up for it in the show notes and and and and just and and enjoy yourself. Enjoy it. Enjoy. Wow. I need to stop talking. Yep. I'm going to wrap it up right here. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back next week with a brand new episode and I hope to see you there, but I'm not going to worry about that right now.
01:15:40
Speaker
and neither should you because that is then and this is now so for now i'll just say i love you and i wish you well fun and safety sweeties