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The Hidden Benefits of Bullying (with special guest Magda Baker)
110 Plays6 days ago
This week on a very special episode of "Friendless," host James Avramenko welcomes the inimitable Magda Baker—singer, songwriter, producer, actor, and co-founder of the queer arts magazine Beautiful Trash for Beautiful People—for a candid, funny, and wide-ranging conversation about art, friendship, community, and navigating modern life.
Together, James and Magda dive into the tangled relationship many of us have with social media, technology, and addiction, exploring strategies for digital detox, reclaiming personal time, and the joys of (temporarily) switching to a flip phone. Magda shares his journey as a queer artist, from formative experiences in Calgary's underground music scene to building an authentic creative life and collaborative community on the West Coast.
Listeners will enjoy honest insights into staying hopeful amid political and personal upheavals, the healing power of shrinking your world, and why showing up for others—even when capacity feels low—can be transformative. The duo gets delightfully nerdy over David Lynch, swap tales of civic engagement, and discuss the meaning of friendship, the value of being an active community member, and the simple productivity hack known as “grilled cheese theory.”
Key topics include:
- Digital minimalism and managing social media addiction
- Building queer/trans arts communities and the ethos behind Beautiful Trash magazine
- Transitioning artistic styles and identities across provinces
- Making and maintaining friendships as an adult
- Reframing self-worth, hope, and happiness in challenging times
- The differences (and surprises) between Vancouver and Calgary queer/art scenes
- Why showing up (to your friend’s gigs, to community meetings, or with a home-cooked meal) matters
Whether you’re searching for practical advice on fostering community or simply need a reminder to read that book your friend lent you, this episode is packed with relatable stories and inspiration for anyone seeking to be a better friend—to themselves and others.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:08
Speaker
Well, hey there, sweet peas. Welcome back to Friendless. I'm your host, James Avramenko, and today I'm chatting with Magda Baker, singer, songwriter, arts magazine founder, and all-around gem.
00:00:20
Speaker
We discuss how to survive social media as an independent artist, our favorite David Lynch work, ditching your smartphone for a flip phone, and the hidden benefits of being bullied. It was an absolute treat to chat with Magda, and you are gonna love this one.
00:00:34
Speaker
So it's time to lean back, get comfy, set your volume at a reasonable level, and enjoy my interview with the one and only Magda Baker here on Friendless.
00:00:47
Speaker
All right. ah This week on the show, we're kicking things off with someone who I just met very recently through the the Teen Angst shows.
Awkward Podcast Greetings
00:00:56
Speaker
ah He is a singer, songwriter, producer, publisher, all kinds of incredible stuff all around town.
00:01:05
Speaker
um The one, the only, Magda Baker. Hi, James. hi You know, as we were saying just before, I was literally about to queue up, ah like, ah how are you? But we were talking about it before the episode, before recording, and that's a that's a rude question. so You know, I didn't ask you.
00:01:23
Speaker
I'm going to be rude now. How are you? You know what? um but How fucking dare you? know?
Social Media and Mental Health
00:01:36
Speaker
ah How am I? You know, so this is the thing. And I think ah podcast like this is the environment for that question in a way of like, you know, because we were saying before recording, it always cues people to be like, how honest do you want to be? And that's been a repeated conversation.
00:01:51
Speaker
talking point on the show for ages but it's like ah feel like this is a platform where we can get just like how am i um um shit's fucking weird man like yeah you know like like it's such a yeah like how do you balance this like feeling of impending doom with also the desire to like enjoy my day you know like and like kind of release these things that i i don't have any fucking control over what some shitheads in another country are deciding to do with fucking trade embargo like what the fuck can i do you know so like why would i like you know my hairline's already receding i don't need to add to it by by worrying about this shit you know
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, now my hairline could recede on testosterone, which beforehand I didn't really have to worry about that. because
00:02:50
Speaker
Welcome to the club. We're very sorry. let this dress get to me. yeah
00:02:56
Speaker
That is a good question, though. Like, how do you... i actually just had to write ah and an entrance exam for... I'm trying to get into college. And they were... what the One of the questions was something about, like, how do you stop being stressed?
00:03:09
Speaker
Or how do you balance your stress about politics while still being active in it? And my answer was kind of like, you know, there's a few things you can do, like less social media and da-da-da-da. But, like, you kind of can't.
00:03:22
Speaker
Like, people... People going through shit can't just turn that off. yeah You can turn off hearing them complain about it, but like, you know, yeah.
Stress and Modern Life
00:03:33
Speaker
Well, and that's that's been one of the central like questions for me is this idea of like, what is... regulating and and staying connected versus like sort of like a privilege disconnect, you know? and yeah And because of, you know, there's there's direct impacts on people's lives, right? and And I don't know. I do wonder if we use that as a bit of like a, it's almost like an addict's excuse, you know? Like, like because it's sort of like, well,
00:04:08
Speaker
Because clearly social media is ah drug. it It fucks with our, you know, our whatever the happy juice. I always forget which one it's called. But um but it's like dopamine. Thank you. Yeah. You're welcome. I was like, right. you know um But like it clearly fucks with our dopamine levels. It's like, a you know, you're snorting a line of coke every time you see a little red dot beside your Instagram account. Right. and and Absolutely.
00:04:30
Speaker
Right. So it's like, are we not sort of creating the addict's excuse of like, oh, just one more hit
Social Media Addiction
00:04:36
Speaker
because I'm being informed. I'm staying connected. You know what? It's like we already know, you know, yeah like, well, I mean, I actually I have a very addictive personality.
00:04:47
Speaker
um and Unfortunately, which which means that ah you know some things that I like very much I just cannot do anymore. um One of those things being social media, I i got myself one of these bad boys.
00:05:02
Speaker
Wow. Instead of, I got a flip phone. for for For listeners, this is going to be a video and an audio thing, but for listeners, Magda just pulled out ah Dynamite flip phone, cell phone.
00:05:18
Speaker
I love this thing. um i still have my iPhone and I have a laptop. I need Instagram, obviously, to book gigs, to run my magazine. like I need all of that stuff, but I just don't want to bring it everywhere.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yes. I miss when the computer was like a room yeah your house and you would like go there onto the internet and then you'd leave it.
Benefits of Flip Phones
00:05:42
Speaker
you know Yeah. You could remember when you had to turn to the, turn the internet on with your foot, you know, like, yeah you know, the desktop power was in the, was on the floor. You push it with your toe. Yeah. You know,
00:05:57
Speaker
You were locked in, right? But then you're spot on. Then you left. then you And then yourre your mom's like, I need to make a phone call get off of the internet. Exactly. yeah like i just, i you know, I mean, obviously this is not like ah scorching hot take, but it's like, it's...
00:06:16
Speaker
Every day that passes, it's clearer and clearer that, like, social media was fucking mistake. Absolutely. Absolutely. fucking absolutely i i yeah i've I've been, like, addicted to Instagram specifically for...
00:06:34
Speaker
Almost like a decade now. Yeah. It's like, oh, my God, i have a i have a spam account like a Finsta that I've had since I was 15. And it has like 4000 posts.
00:06:47
Speaker
Yeah. Or something. Yeah.
Facebook and Canadian Identity
00:06:50
Speaker
Oh, yeah. and And on one hand, it's like, that's cool. It's like a visual diary of like, the past, like, 10 years of my life. And on the other hand, it's like, why did I feel the need to share every thought I had when I was 17? Yeah.
00:07:03
Speaker
yeah wish I didn't do that. Yeah. Yeah. I do feel very i feel very grateful I didn't have this stuff when I was in high school. I'm very grateful for that. one of the One of the really obscene thoughts that continues to haunt me is it's actually – it was one of the sort of germ thoughts of starting the show years ago was that at the time it's now even longer now, but at the time,
00:07:26
Speaker
I realized that meet like from the from the time ah from from when I opened my Facebook account in 2006, because like I had it when it was still like ah you just a university, like a closed-loop site. and Holy shit. From the time I'd opened my Facebook account to when I started the show, it was the longest continuous...
00:07:47
Speaker
like relationship I had in my life other than like family. you know like yeah and and And now it's even worse. like i've I've been on Facebook almost 20 years now.
00:07:59
Speaker
Holy shit. yeah yeah so that's I don't want think about 2006 as 20
Evolving Friendships
00:08:05
Speaker
years ago. Isn't that fucking awful? I know. I've been saying that to all my friends from university. I've been like, we've known each other for 20 years. and they're like, well, we're not friends anymore. So, you know.
00:08:18
Speaker
Don't have to worry about those long-running friendships if you just fuck them up. Exactly. like Burn it down, right? You know? Yeah. You know. but it needs that emotional labor? Fuck, though. but But it really, like, it's like, how the fuck did that happen?
00:08:33
Speaker
Like, how it did 20 years of Mark fucking Zuckerberg happen? That feels, it it should be a war crime. Like, that alone. You know? Yeah.
00:08:44
Speaker
My God, my me and my my best friend realized that we we celebrate our friendiversary every year um because we're silly like that. And we realized that this year marks half of our lives that we've known each other.
00:08:58
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, holy shit. Yeah. Time is an asshole, is is very much a reoccurring motif in my life.
00:09:09
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. it is. I've been thinking about time a lot lately because last last year I turned the age of the person. When I was 18, I was dating someone five years older than me.
00:09:25
Speaker
And we dated for almost five years. But... um But now I'm like the age that I remember that person being yeah and thinking they were so much older than me and like so like smart and experienced and like, oh, oh my God, I can't believe. and now I'm like, oh my God, I have no fucking idea what I'm doing.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah. It's they were they're all babies.
Magda's Music Career
00:09:52
Speaker
Everyone's a baby. You know, yeah like it's just we just we just become wrinklier babies. That's all. But we stay, you know, it never changes. You know, it's the other thing. I have forehead wrinkles now.
00:10:03
Speaker
Right. I know. I'm so sorry. Welcome to the club. i might Oh, God. Let's not even talk about that. mar
00:10:12
Speaker
They say you earn the face that you get in old age, though. So, you know, sometimes wrinkles are good because it means you smiled a lot. but That's true. But I still don't want to talk about that. oh Magda, we're 10 minutes in, and ah we need to we need to double back slightly because um some of my listeners will not be familiar with you.
00:10:33
Speaker
um And so I always like to set things up with a very a very open-ended and very simple question of who the fuck are you? I'm sure most of your listeners don't know who I am
00:10:49
Speaker
am. Because i'm I'm not particularly famous in any way,
Calgary and Vancouver Music Scenes
00:10:53
Speaker
but I am a yeah baker i'm ah i'm a singer-songwriter. um I've been at that for ah very long time.
00:11:02
Speaker
um I just had an album come out in December called In the Wasteland. It's on all streaming services, to shamelessly plug. Absolutely. i'm I am part of the team of a company called Trash Can Media, and we have a publication across Canada called Beautiful Trash for Beautiful People, and it's a queer DIY arts magazine, um arts and culture, really.
00:11:28
Speaker
um and i guess i'm also an actor i've been in a couple movies now that fell in my lap that wasn't on purpose amazing um but yeah that's kind of the the random things i'm i'm going around and doing these days yeah hell yeah um yeah so this is the thing in preparation for the interview i was like oh there's so many different like directions that we could go and now you've just thrown actor on my lap too so i'm like oh there's a whole brand new direction um Where I want to start, though, is Calgary. um we're both i was going to bring that up. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:05
Speaker
um So we're both we're both, you know, prairie boys from from back home escaping to the West Coast.
00:12:14
Speaker
Thank God. Right. Right. um The yeah oh, my God, the the ah the Alberta Vancouver queer pipeline is ah is real and well-worn. yeah Yeah, yeah. I call us, ah ah we're Alberta refugees.
00:12:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:32
Speaker
ah the My worry is that when I get around other, especially Calgarians, ah my like, my like, Berta mud mouth kind of comes back, you know? That's said a lot of my friends in Vancouver. Also, we all went to the same high school in Alberta. We've all ended up here.
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah. And when we get together and get like two drinks in our system, it goes full. Like, oh, do you want to go for a rip bud? like Yeah, go crush a dart. Let's crush some darts.
00:13:00
Speaker
Whip a shitty. Oh, God.
00:13:04
Speaker
Want smoke a yacht? yeah
00:13:09
Speaker
ah But it's magic. it's you know and But but but where where where I'm coming up from it, though, is is that I think Calgary is one of the like secret ah music.
00:13:24
Speaker
ah There's like ah there's like a really hidden gem of the music scene in in Calgary. um and i'm curious well there there there There was at least one. I haven't been there in years, but there was. there was there's There's been pockets where it comes and goes. you know yes and i'm and I'm curious about sort of your experience sort of forming your your music career there and then and then the experience of bringing it out here and how that's been for you.
00:13:47
Speaker
Ooh, that's ah that's a good one. um Yeah, Calgary's scene is really interesting because it is either like you do country or you don't get booked at like various venues. A lot of the venues, that's the case. And then there's places like Tubby Dog, which no longer exists, that had these like weekly punk shows that I think I started going to when I was like 12 and I like nearly died in the mosh pit every week for years. i actually have hearing loss in my right ear because of sitting beside the same speaker every week.
00:14:16
Speaker
um with no ear protection. yeah um and And so this the scene has always been really weird and on and off there. And and so i I realized it was pre-transition also. I was like, okay, you know, I love Taylor Swift.
00:14:33
Speaker
Is that the music I necessarily want to make? No. Can I make it easily and market myself like that? Absolutely, I can. yeah um And so for a long time, I was kind of doing that like Prairie Girl singer songwriter circle at Gravity Wine and Espresso Bar in Inglewood kind of deal. And then. know exactly this, but yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. They pay like shit. I don't know if I can say that, but they, they pay nothing pennies.
00:15:04
Speaker
um And, and so i am I kind of took that
Challenges in Canadian Music Industry
00:15:11
Speaker
and then I met my longtime collaborator and we kind of continued to make that same sort of music moved here and immediately went, what's the weirdest fucking shit we can do.
00:15:23
Speaker
um and also both started kind of transitioning in that time. So we were like, okay, now we're like weird transgender people in Vancouver. So the vibe is completely shifted.
00:15:33
Speaker
sure Um, and, and I, I was really lucky. I moved to Vancouver and the first person I met is my friend, Michael, who is in the lunchtime band. He was a really, really incredible local band here in Vancouver.
00:15:47
Speaker
um And he pretty much immediately got us hooked up with gigs and like with the right people to talk to. you So all of a sudden I'm playing like punk shows, raves, electronic shows.
00:16:02
Speaker
And i kind of it was just about like adjusting the set for the venue, just like just even like the tone on the guitar. um And then i went solo.
00:16:15
Speaker
And since then I've realized, okay, I'm basically just doing the singer songwriter thing, but with a good electric guitar. yeah's That's essentially what my kid is now.
00:16:27
Speaker
yeah um And i I think it's kind of unique. I mean, and that maybe that's silly to say, but it would Yeah, it was a challenge taking kind of what I'd learned in Calgary, especially since I had a bit of a following there and then coming here and having like to start from ground zero all over again.
Song Flexibility and Genre
00:16:45
Speaker
How has been your how has your experience been with ah oh God, that puts my brain in so many different directions. i need to keep myself focused. um um How has the experience been of um
00:16:59
Speaker
There's very much a disconnect from sort of Western Canada and then like, you know, like, especially when it comes to things like promotion, cross country promotion, grants, if you ever want to tap into any of those, it's very much sort of like if you're not in Toronto, which is,
00:17:14
Speaker
is essentially Canada, you know, and you're sort of like cut off. Right. um So even even Alberta to B.C., it's it it's sort of on par in a way.
00:17:26
Speaker
um But I'm curious about your your experience with that. Like like you you mentioned, you know, the sort of the movement. didn awareness, not necessarily following you, um but I'm curious about how yeah how are you finding building that that sort of following here?
00:17:42
Speaker
And is it is it sort of getting over the mountains? you know Is it getting over the Rockies for you or not? um It's been easier here, i think. then And I also think that's just I'm a better musician I was five, six years than i was you know five six years ago um Sure.
00:18:01
Speaker
But it's been easier kind of building that community here um and and sort of gigging and and figuring all of that out. Getting it across the Rockies has been a challenge. ah you know I do get sort of radio play in like university stations around the country generally.
00:18:25
Speaker
it's not... but it's not Like, you know, I don't really have any offers to, like, go play any gigs in Toronto. You know what I mean? Sure. um Or in Calgary. I'm sure if I went back to Calgary and went, somebody gave me a gig, somebody would give me a gig. ah Yeah. I have no worries about that. But, um but yeah, it's it's I'm definitely a ah a Vancouver presence and not a Canada one at this point.
Balancing Artistic Projects
00:18:53
Speaker
the The other thing I got thinking about is this idea, you know, you talked about, like, Sort of adjusting the tone for the venue. and But you're not necessarily having to change the song.
00:19:04
Speaker
And that's always been something that I've thought about. Like, whenever I listen to, like, you know, I have a really eclectic taste in music. And and um I think it's, you know, my autism or i my ADHD, I don't know. But it's like I'm very lyric focused, even though I can almost never... Yeah. ah Even though at the same time, too, you I rarely know what they're actually singing.
00:19:24
Speaker
You know, like I'll i'll just sort of like I'll just I'm going on vibes more than anything. But like when you really look at the lyrics of across genres, it's like the only difference is what the backing instruments are doing.
00:19:37
Speaker
You know, it's kind of always the same song. Like, not not but, you know, it's the same. big it could be interplayed. in any, any style. um And, and I'm curious about sort of your, your take on that. um Because I know that that's not like a blanket truth, but it's sort of been like, you know, you could take an old folk standard and put like a synthesizer behind it and make just like a killer pop song or like a,
00:20:00
Speaker
whatever, you know, and, and, um and I'm curious about your, you know, you were talking about the the sort of transition from the kind of like folk twangy country, you whatever, ever and adapting it to new and and and what's that experience been like for you?
00:20:15
Speaker
um It's been fun. i Actually, I put a record out a couple years ago called Tape Album, and it sounds like shit. I
Beautiful Trash Magazine Origin
00:20:23
Speaker
don't recommend you go and listen to it because it is it is genuinely just a bunch of songs i wrote as a teenager, um but it was like I was 22 or something when I recorded it, and it's all recorded on a shitty tape recorder, like early Mountain Goats kind of vibes. Mm-hmm.
00:20:40
Speaker
um was Daniel Johnson ah is yeah you try do that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um exactly that was kind of the idea um and that's that's kind of a good example actually of just like that was before my voice had even changed on testosterone but it was just the way the vibe of how I was singing it kind of like dirty and folk punky versus like singer, songwriter, girly, um makes them, a lot of them sound like totally different songs than they did when I first wrote them like 10 years ago or whatever. Yeah. um
00:21:18
Speaker
So so i I find it really fun to play around with with the sound of things, um especially when it comes to just like the melody and stuff. Like there's there's songs I wrote years ago that I'm like, hmm, I like that lyric, but I don't really like how the song sounds and I'll just rework the whole thing.
00:21:36
Speaker
totally so coupled with that you also are doing all these other artistic expressions and and it's something that i find myself you know as i again as i was sort of prepping for this interview i was finding myself so inspired and and there was a piece of me that was like ah to be young again then but then like also being like shut the fuck up james you're not that old like why aren't you participating in this you know and and you are absolutely not that old i Well, that's just it. I know. It's like, fuck off, you know, but ah um but but I'm really curious about sort of these other impulses that you're following through. um And and and the first one I wanted to start with was this that the you know, you've got a lot of your personal zines, but then you've also got this, ah you know, the beautiful trash magazine.
Exploring Queer Identity
00:22:23
Speaker
And um and I'm curious about what was the sort of origin formation of this project?
00:22:29
Speaker
So I had been thinking for a really long time, I was like, I want to start a monthly zine publication where I have a bunch of different local artists contribute to it. And then at the same time, my incredibly talented friend Jeb's junk um was having kind of a similar thought of like, i want to start like a magazine with a bunch of artists across Canada.
00:22:51
Speaker
um And then one day we met up at at a playground at like 10 PM and and started talking. And then we were like, oh, holy shit, we want to do the exact same thing.
00:23:03
Speaker
And they'd already started the process kind of of of building what they wanted it to be. And so I was lucky enough that I didn't have to do some of that work. I just kind of jumped in. um yeah And somewhere we have a ah piece of paper that's like,
00:23:18
Speaker
a contract where it just says like, Megda agrees to work at beautiful trash and then our signatures and the date. And and that I think we should frame that. That should be in the office.
00:23:32
Speaker
Yeah. And our incredible friend, ah Haley, came on as the designer and she does like ah she everything that makes it look so beautiful.
00:23:43
Speaker
um And I do a good bulk of the writing and editing, um which is really fun. um And then Jeb's does a lot of the just kind of everything. We all wear every hat when we need to, but...
00:23:59
Speaker
With those kind of projects, you sort of have to, hey? Yeah, exactly. and And what's the sort of like, um you know, for listeners who might not be familiar with it, like what what are what's the the sort of ethos behind it? Like what what are the what the sort of driving pillars that you're that you're exploring?
00:24:15
Speaker
So it it's kind of, we wanted a place, a low barrier access to ah people whose art might not otherwise be published to get published.
00:24:28
Speaker
um So, you know, we have a lot of priority on like, ah all of our artists are queer. And then we have a lot of priority on like, trans or like uh people of color like
Community and Personal Identity
00:24:40
Speaker
sort of marginalized people that don't generally get published as easily and we just wanted a low barrier kind of like submit your art we'll put it out there um and we've been lucky to see some crazy incredible art over the past year that we've been operating
00:25:00
Speaker
um And we're just getting submissions now for our next issue and they're looking incredible too. um And so, yeah, it was just sort of about like about kind of creating, not creating, but figuring out what queer Canadian cultural identity looks like because so much of our cultural identity comes from the States, comes from um England, whatever.
00:25:27
Speaker
ah mostly from the States. And so it's like figuring out like, what do Canadian queer people have to say and have to write that's, you know, from within our own sort of culture and sort of creating that cultural identity as well.
00:25:44
Speaker
um Yeah. That sparks a couple, you know, something I thought about for years is this question of like, for a long time, one of my running jokes was like,
00:25:54
Speaker
the Canadian identity is asking what the Canadian identity is, you know, it's sort of like all, you know, decades of this fucking, you know, imperialist structure existing. And we're still like, but what are we, you know, like, are we not, you know, but, um,
00:26:12
Speaker
um But at the same time, too, I think i think um I'm really ah this is sort of this loops into some of the central questions of the show, too, is this question of like, what exactly is identity and how do we like how do we hold our own identity while also opening it up to encompass identity?
00:26:37
Speaker
as many people as possible to not ah create barriers for each other, you know, because it's like we can have we can have shared experiences and we can have empathy for each other.
00:26:49
Speaker
And that doesn't necessarily impact my identity, but it still connects me, you know? And so it's this funny, like, like I guess I'm curious from from your perspective of, like, how how do you find yourself navigating that sort of, like,
00:27:04
Speaker
you know, your personal identity versus sort of like but the communal hodgepodge, for lack of a better way of putting it, you know? I don't know. i i think, honestly, that I need to be more tapped into sort of the communal hodgepodge. um and And that i've I've spent a lot of my life being really sort of metacognitive and thinking about like my identity and why I feel those ways. And, oh, I have a thought. Why am I thinking that thought? And like just getting, and and that can be good and it can also be incredibly unhealthy and like, because even it self self-loathing and and everything is still a form of self-obsession.
00:27:51
Speaker
you know what I mean? And I think that's a trap that I i can easily fall into um And so i I think I like myself most and I like my identity most when I'm more tapped into the communal sort of identity and when I'm more tapping into the the people around me.
Digital Communication and Connection
00:28:13
Speaker
There's nothing I can say that I don't already know. There's nothing I can learn from talking, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. This is something I was just talking about the other day. You know, it's like, um ah so i'm I'm in a book club. we we we I just started a book club with some friends of love friends mine. right and What are you reading?
00:28:32
Speaker
Well, the first book we just finished is called Dear Dickhead by, um I forget, Dispentes. um um But it's about this sort of like, it's these, it's a,
00:28:46
Speaker
ah What's the term? it' said It's an epistolic novel. it's ah and it's told and it's It's told in emails, basically. Oh, I love it. Characters are writing emails back and forth.
00:28:57
Speaker
and And a huge sort of theme behind it is this idea that within the confines of the book itself, very little actually happens because it's just people talking to each other and telling each other stories.
00:29:08
Speaker
So all this sort of like action takes place sort of beyond the pages because like things happen to them and then they come and they talk about it, you know? um And it really raises this question of like, are we communicating when we are talking via computers? You know, like if we're through social media, through email, anything like that, are these actually conversations, um which, you know, and from my take personally, I don't think they are. I think they're just various levels, various lengths of monologuing.
00:29:40
Speaker
you know Whether it's a tweet or an email, no matter how long or short, it's still it's not like what we're doing right now. It's not as being able to kind of like step over each other and be able to see each other's face and vo vocal tones and all the other things that come into play with like human interaction.
00:29:56
Speaker
Those are completely erased. you know And so we're not actually doing anything other than talking when we when we communicate that way. And how much does that actually...
00:30:08
Speaker
create any kind of like movement or action or, you know, um um I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm just saying like how much and, ah you know, and contextually. That's really interesting.
00:30:20
Speaker
i i have a few friends that I, ah again, I tend to be like old, old fashioned. I don't like, i don't like texting. I don't like DMing.
00:30:31
Speaker
um I have a few friends that I just keep in touch with over email. yeah um and i i I love it personally. it's like I feel like I'm like letter writing in the 1800s or something. um My darling, the cholera took me again. you Not the cholera. right Mother took ill. Timmy has polio. Exactly.
00:31:01
Speaker
The doctor says he shan't walk again. you know yeah
00:31:09
Speaker
yeah that's how it feels um yeah i love it it's great yeah okay um but but you you might be right like i mean would i be rather be just talking to that person face to face probably sure you know Yeah.
00:31:24
Speaker
And there's also not to create like a you know, a central tenet of a lot of the therapy I've done. I'm i'm in like a an ongoing DBT group therapy plus just like my personal therapy and all these things.
00:31:35
Speaker
A very central tenet of all the work I do is eliminating this idea of good, bad. And instead looking at effective versus ineffective. Like, is this practice, is this behavior, right? It's, it's been revbel revelatory for me is like removing judgment on everything and just being like, is this practice or this behavior or this choice, is it effective for my goals?
00:31:55
Speaker
ah And, if and, and it's not about, is this good or bad? It's just like, is this going to help me or is it going to hinder me? You know? um And so like, and I'm not saying like emails are bad. It's just like, you know, in certain contexts, how effective are they are they for, for affecting certain things?
Technology in Community Building
00:32:13
Speaker
You know, like you, we came to this by talking about the idea of like affecting action and, and personal change, you know, and, and, and, um,
00:32:22
Speaker
you know I think they can have an impact, but at some point you have to stop talking, right? you know At some point you have to go do the thing now, right? Yeah, no, I agree with that. I do agree with that. Especially, i guess a lot of emails are kind of back and forth of the exact same thing. It's like, ooh, where are we?
00:32:41
Speaker
We're right where we started. I've learned nothing here. And that's a beautiful thing too, though, is you know because i think I think these tools are really... You know, circling all the way back to the idea of social media is that it's like it's not it's not that, you know, because like social, you know, Facebook is just a website.
00:33:00
Speaker
It's not good or bad. It's, you know, the algorithm behind it that's been doctored to to tailor what we see and what we don't and who we see and who we don't and all those things. That's where the impact actually comes from.
00:33:12
Speaker
But the the website itself is just an innocuous fucking set of code. It's benign. Right. um Yeah. it's It's how we use these things that matter, right? And and so so just being aware of of like, how are you using these tools, you know? Because they can be they can be used for incredible you know incredible change and they can also, you know, but make me have to see fucking Elon Musk's face every day, you know? Yeah, exactly. Oh, man, it's been so long since I've seen Elon Musk's face. I love not being on social media. And again, that's that's the thing is like, what is a useful tool?
00:33:46
Speaker
Well, I do need a cell phone. I need to be able to be contacted. i mean, I'd love a landline with ah an answering machine so I could screen my calls like I'm in rent.
00:33:59
Speaker
i would I would love that. But this works for me. And having a laptop works for me. Because again, I'm not going to take that with me everywhere. right And I don't even actually take my phone with me everywhere too. I'll go, you know if I'm like biking down to the grocery store or whatever, it's like, do I need to be contacted right now? Do I need to be 24-7 available to everyone in my life when I'm getting my prescriptions?
00:34:25
Speaker
like yep ah So it's it is just really reframing how you're using those tools. Everything's reframing. That's what I've learned. That's right. so Life is just a long sequence of reframing what you think you know.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yep. i feel like I feel like the demarcation of like middle age now is like, how long did you spend your life just like kind of like automatonously?
00:34:53
Speaker
ton of um autonomously i don't you know automatically you know or unconsciously like like just sort of like going about your your life and then the wake up is like oh shit this isn't helping me now i have to spend the rest of my life unpacking this behavior and like recovering from it you know Yes, absolutely. i think, you know, i this the whole flip phone thing is probably just like like my quarter life crisis or something. Like, ah you know, I'm sure in a couple of years I'll look back and I'll be like, what the fuck was I doing?
00:35:34
Speaker
Right now it's really, it is working for me really well. yeah so Fuck yeah. That's great. That's what matters. That's what counts right there. um Absolutely. you know So speaking on this, I think this this this this circles into one of the real kind of like anchor questions, as they call them, um um which is this idea of community.
00:35:53
Speaker
I think we'll we'll we'll we'll bounce around. We'll rearrange what i how I normally go with it. But like, you know, you've been talking about artist communities that you've been a part of and, and you know, queer communities and and just like.
00:36:04
Speaker
ah how to show up within them, you know, and you're building your own communities as well. And and that is one of those words that i I have found gets thrown around so casually and so often that we've almost come become sort of blind to what it actually means to us personally, you know, and ah because it can mean so much. And so I'm really curious just from your sort of personal vantage point, from your personal impact, what does a word like community mean to you? and And as a sort of a follow up with that, how do you find yourself sort of showing up to that word.
00:36:37
Speaker
i I have a ah good anecdote. that fits this, which is that last year I got concussed um a couple times, but somebody who had absolutely no reason to like me, who, if they really disliked me, I would not be surprised or upset about it.
Community Support and Unity
00:37:00
Speaker
um so Somebody who really, really did not, need to be kind to me at all, um offered to make me dinner so that I wouldn't have to cook when I was concussed.
00:37:17
Speaker
um And i'm I'm actually, I'm lucky enough to be really friendly with that person now. um But that was ah that was a moment for me where I was like, wow, I would not do the same for you.
00:37:29
Speaker
What does that mean about me? ah like And it really made me kind of look at myself and like how how what being in community with somebody means. Because in community doesn't mean you're friends with that person. like It could be someone that you don't like and it's still you're in community with them.
00:37:47
Speaker
That's exactly right. And that moment where it was like somebody who really has no obligation to me whatsoever, who, again, in their shoes, I would not have done the same.
00:38:00
Speaker
um, was that was like kind of shocking to me and and really made me take a look at how I do show up for community. Um, and so.
00:38:12
Speaker
I guess I've just been trying to bring that energy more. i mean, i don't know if I'm great at it. so To be honest, um I, you know, i have no grand illusions about being a good person.
00:38:28
Speaker
um I mean, there's such thing. Yeah, it's true. In my experience, there's no such thing, but you know. yeah But I, you know, but I, you know, I try to do what's right for ah for the people I'm in community with. And so I've found like there's been times where there's been people I really don't like or, ah you know, people I don't really want to be around or whatever. But then, you know, maybe they're going through something and it's like, well, you know, how can I help?
00:38:54
Speaker
I have resources at my finger. Not many. Like if somebody asked me for money, I'd be like, show me where it is. but But like, you know, there's always something you can do, I think. and ah And especially, again, in the queer community right now, like we have bigger fucking fish to fry than personal issues at the moment.
00:39:16
Speaker
Like, yeah even if there's somebody where I like completely fundamentally disagree with their... And sort of the way they they think about queerness or whatever, you know, there's always those like really stupid fights that people have every five years and it's the same fight.
00:39:35
Speaker
And it always comes to the same conclusion. Even if there's people like I agree ah disagree with, we're fighting the same fight. Why would I waste my time fighting with you? Yep. 100%. Yep. hundred percent ye Yeah.
00:39:47
Speaker
It is an interesting... and And I think about that all very often because it's like I don't... you know One of the things I think that gets lost, and this is why I like to talk about this, is it is the idea that the point of a community isn't that everyone shows up the same.
00:40:00
Speaker
The point of a community is that we show up for a collective good. And each of us contributes what we can contribute to it. you know So like yes, some people can contribute money, some people can contribute space, some can do resources, some can do people management, whatever it might be. right But like... we all contribute what we can to the sort of to the pool.
00:40:19
Speaker
Right. um And recognizing that it's like, yeah, this person showing up the way they did for you doesn't mean that you have to one to one in order to be a good community member. Right. It's like, yeah, it's remembering to show up how you can.
00:40:33
Speaker
Right. hmm. Yeah, and i yeah that that was a really big moment for me where I was just like, oh, wow. Because you know what? I make fun of Vancouver, sort of like, I'm holding space. like how to the The way the queer community here is like hilarious to me. It's like an HR meeting.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, they're're they're very easily bullied. you know like it's very yeah It's a bullyable community here. you know Yeah, like I constantly feel like I'm at an HR meeting.
00:41:01
Speaker
um and and like
00:41:07
Speaker
But I don't, you know, the way Calgary does it isn't any better either. Like ah at all. It's a different vibe. you know right yeah Yeah. Yeah. Well, even within the queer community, it's like, it's like, haha, did you see that this guy just like released his like sex with this other guy? Let's share it around.
00:41:24
Speaker
It's like, whoa, what are we doing? And whereas here people would be like, that's. basically assaults like you know what I mean like it's and it so there's different it's it's a really different vibe and it did take me a fucking minute to get used to it oh and i don't I don't actually think one is better or worse than the other I think there's a happy middle ground somewhere okay Oh, people need to get bullied every once in a while. Everybody deserves get bullied a little bit.
00:41:55
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Yeah. Yeah. I think it does good. It does you good to remember, you know, it like it brings that ego down. Right. You know, and it's like, just remember, you're you're one punch, you're one knuckle sandwich away, you know, right?
00:42:09
Speaker
I wish I was one punch away from ego death. That would make everything easy. like like i don't need to I don't need a shrooms trip. yeah yeah I just need someone to deck me.
00:42:20
Speaker
Just one one real good wham. You know, right? Yeah.
00:42:28
Speaker
That's what my concussions did. Yeah, right? How's your ego post-brain damage? you know ah You know, the brain damage is I cannot think the way I used to...
00:42:41
Speaker
Which I really love that I've chosen to be a writer yeah um yeah with my life. I'm writing an article about ah car infrastructure and bike lanes and what that has to do with the queer community.
00:42:55
Speaker
And I have a lot of thoughts on this. And i and and i I do think they have a lot to do with each other, but I am having such a hard time. Actually, right now, the way it reads is like if you gave me Coke and I talked for 10 minutes.
00:43:08
Speaker
ah You can read the teeth grinding on the page it is not an article yet it will be and it'll be in the next issue of beautiful trash but right now it's like this is a coke rant essentially awesome awesome just you know you could just
David Lynch's Influence
00:43:23
Speaker
hear quentin tarantino narrating it you know yeah exactly myself seven years ago ah
00:43:39
Speaker
I want to flip things i want to flip sixs real quick and i want to get you to I want to get you to ask one of your but your questions I want to know what your favorite David Lynch media is.
00:43:52
Speaker
What your favorite thing David Lynch is. Cause we talked about that a little bit about David Lynch when I we did, we did. Yeah. And he had just, he had just passed right when we met and you were wearing a shirt that was yeah Bob.
00:44:04
Speaker
Yeah. i was wearing the, I haven't seen this band shirt. Yeah. Which was given to me by one of my best friends. It's one of my like treasured shirts. I love it. um Oh, it's fantastic. i That's a great question i because I go back and forth with a few things. um um And thank you for giving me the the the, you know, thank you for holding space with me around my my David Lynch obsession.
00:44:25
Speaker
um Holding space. Right? um um You want a fucking punch? ah No, I say that to myself.
00:44:36
Speaker
ah um I haven't had a chance to talk much about him on recent shows. So, um yeah, I go back and forth with a few things because like I feel like Twin Peaks as a sort of like little microcosm, it just encapsulates everything about David Lynch because it's like you've got the first two seasons which are just like the weirdest soap opera ever made.
00:45:00
Speaker
yeah And I fucking love soap operas. So i was just like, oh, this... This is perfect, you know? um um And then the movie, which is just, like, so fucked up and incredible. um And then the return, which is just, like, 18 hours of, like, undiluted David fucking Lynch, you know? Like, it's just, it's just like, every every, at the end of every hour, you're like...
00:45:24
Speaker
I don't know what I saw, but I'm interested and terrified, you know? So real quick, I haven't seen The Return yet, and this is why. It's because i I watched all of Twin Peaks, and I watched Firewalk with me, and I yeah loved it all.
00:45:40
Speaker
And the the people I was watching it with went, all right, we had to wait. So it's not fair if you just watch it right away. Yeah. So I'm giving like...
00:45:50
Speaker
i'm giving it like Because that was probably like... um my god, that was probably almost two years ago. It's probably time now. I think I've waited long enough. That's more than long enough. it's i just I needed to feel i like I missed Twin Peaks before I can go into the return, I feel like. yeah That's interesting. I like that. sort of like ah what's it You're sort of artificially creating the gap that was forced on everyone else. you know Yes, yeah exactly. yeah yeah at At the same time, too, though, like as somebody who's rewatched all of it many times, it like...
00:46:21
Speaker
it does help to just kind of launch into it because you'll remember shit. Like you'll, you'll have forgotten stuff and you'd be like, what the fuck? Why is he, you know? But, um ah but I was saying to my roommate, I was like, do you remember the whole like yellow face thing? And she was like, what i
00:46:36
Speaker
what? Oh, right. What the fuck? Catherine Martel. Yeah. Yeah. She's, you know, she's, that woman is pure evil. She had, they, you know, I love her. Catherine Martel is one of the greatest TV characters ever made.
00:46:51
Speaker
Oh my god, insane. yeah yeah but yeah But definitely does a full-on multi-episode arc where she plays an old Japanese man. And it is yes it is a lot. it's a it isnt it It is insane. And the way we watched it at the time is like we we would go weekly to this one friend's house and And and she would make cherry pie and we'd have cherry pie and black coffee and watch episodes of Twin Peaks. Yeah. um And I was so like lost in the sauce that I barely even registered what was happening at first during that. and And then I was like, what, what, what, what the fuck?
00:47:25
Speaker
Yeah. so And that's so that's sort of, that never that never really changes. That's sort of, that's just the feeling you have watching a David Lynch anything, you know? And and yeah it's about, like, that doesn't work for everybody, but it really works for me. Is, like, I don't, you know, I like stories that I understand what I'm looking at, but every once in a while, you just want to throw on Lost Highway and be like, I don't.
00:47:47
Speaker
i don't I don't fucking know, man. you know like I love Eraserhead. Yeah. i've I've been thinking of getting a tattoo of the Eraserhead baby. Yes. yes its I think that would be a good one.
00:48:00
Speaker
That movie is so fucking funny, too. like It's just like, oh, my God. but i just I always think of there's this one shot where like ah he's he's tending you know the wife's disappeared. He's tending the baby.
00:48:11
Speaker
And he turns away. And then, and then I forget what happens, but like, he looks over and the baby's suddenly sick and it like really like hard cuts to him. and he's like, oh no, like there's just, there's just something so brilliantly funny about it. You know, like it's just, Oh my God. i love it. I love it. so um Well, I think after this, I'm going to have to watch the return and report back to you.
00:48:34
Speaker
Yeah. 100 yeah 100 yeah yeah that one holds up as yeah that's its own ecosystem you know but like and then i don't know his movies are so tough because it's like his movies are in one way i almost feel like he just made the same movie over and over again with just varying degrees of you know like but like well i don't know about dune well then yeah we just we just don't talk about dune you know but uh but ah but i was on ah I was on a compilation album for like as a tribute to David Lynch and not long ago, and I made a song for it and something.
00:49:08
Speaker
And then somebody went on that album and like like put a song on that album. And I know for a fact that this person's like only seen Dune and maybe, maybe Eraserhead, but I don't even think so.
00:49:21
Speaker
I know that they've never seen Twin Peaks. I love that I'm talking shit on the pod. But talking shit on the pod, I was so mad. i have the person blocked so I couldn't be like, fuck you.
00:49:32
Speaker
Fraud. Fraud. But I was like, what the fuck? yeah God damn. ah You know, <unk> it's hard to It's hard to gatekeep, David. there's you know I was just talking about this sea of the other day. There's a couple cultural subsects that basically you cannot gatekeep, and that's pro wrestling and juggalos.
00:49:55
Speaker
Basically, those two those two culture like culture movements are wonderful because they're always just like... Fuck yeah, come on in. It doesn't matter if you know all of it or nothing. If you're into it, you're in, you know?
00:50:08
Speaker
um and And I feel like Lynch, from what I saw over the last couple of months, especially after his death and the sort of like outpouring of love and the like, the broad ah array of people who were impacted by him.
00:50:22
Speaker
I feel like he is, he shouldn't be gate kept in a way. On the other side, It's almost more like, it's not like, like to me, it's not like you're a poser for not, it's like, why haven't you watched more? You know, like, get on it, right? You know? Like, what's wrong with you? Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:44
Speaker
Cause it's just I don't know. I was like, do you want to watch Twin Peaks? They were like, no, I don't really think so. Oh, come on. on. Like, oh, God. Wilder. I just like, and it's like, oh, my God. So many of them are just like, there's just so fun.
00:50:56
Speaker
Like, Mulholland Drive, the movie's fucking incredible. I love that movie. You know, it's just It's just good time. mean, well, okay. a good time you know i mean well It's not a fun time, but I love it. You know? Like, like I just... Yeah.
00:51:08
Speaker
So it's hard. You know, circling back to the question of, like, favorite thing, it's like, it really depends on what day. what the day The day of the week, what am I feeling? Because, like, i I can find so much joy in almost anything he made, you know, depending on the day. Right? So, um yeah. I, like...
00:51:25
Speaker
ah fucking Lost Highway has one of my favorite single lines. ah Like, the scene where he they, like, they've cut away, he's in the prison now, and and then it suddenly just quick cuts to the two security guards, and they're just and they're just sitting talking, and and one of them's like, oh, the wife killer's acting up again, and and the other ones like the other one's like, which one?
00:51:49
Speaker
And then they both just laugh, and they both just, like, burst out laughing. And then it just cuts away you never see them again. and it's just so good. Like, what the fuck did I just, you know, like, you know, or like it in fucking, is it, I think it's lost. i think it's lost highway again, where like the mob boss like pulls the guy out of the car and beats him up for speeding. And he starts like reciting speeding laws to him, you know? And it's just like, this is incredible, right? Like, how can you not love this?
00:52:17
Speaker
I love on on drag race. One of the Queens on snatch game did David Lynch.
Cultural Representation and Subcultures
00:52:22
Speaker
e ah She did an all right job. but it was It was not bad. It was not one of the worst ones at all. But everybody was like, are you sure you're going to do that?
00:52:31
Speaker
Like, are you sure? And I was like, there's so many opportunities with it. Why wouldn't you do it? Yeah. Like there's so many opportunities. Oh my God. And especially with like the baby doll, like fifties aesthetic. Like, you oh my God. do So many things.
00:52:44
Speaker
Oh, what did it what what ended up, turn how did it turn out? was it like Oh, she went out in like in boy drag as David Lynch. Oh, as David Lynch? Yeah, yeah because it was the the Snatch game where they're like act as celebrities or whatever. and recall i see some questions I have to admit, i can tell drag race is a complete blind spot for me. It's just that, yeah. That's crazy. i mean, it's not good. Yeah, exactly. it's It's not like I could really recommend it. But in my mind, back to community, it's gay sports.
00:53:13
Speaker
Yes, that's right. It is gay sports. yeah it is It is community. See, i watch I watch pro wrestling, which is just is like straight drag, you know? like Yes, it is. right It is absolutely straight drag.
00:53:26
Speaker
Although i did I did, a former guest of the show ah ah made a comment ah recently online where he was like, ah Being gay in wrestling is so common that to be a straight wrestler is actually to be gay.
00:53:47
Speaker
And and I was like, no notes. love that. Right? Yeah. No notes. yeah That's how it feels being a male singer-songwriter.
00:53:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. ah
00:54:07
Speaker
Oh my god, the white whale straight singer-songwriter? No, you know, I meet a lot of them, but I'm like, are you sure? Sweetie, are you sure? Do you just few more for your feelings? You know, you see their girlfriend dancing along, and you're like, does he touch you? Like...
Joy and Hope Through Community
00:54:32
Speaker
Holy shit. Holy shit. That was kind of out of pocket. I love it. I love it. Oh my
00:54:50
Speaker
I want to, I want to go back to, um, since I'm kind of readjusting things, I'm going I'm going to put the friendship question to the end and we're instead, we're going to we're going to keep the, the, the happiness train going a little bit. Um, you know, we, we touched on things passingly throughout the old interview about, you know, there are, there are clearly negatives in the world these days, you know, and, and, uh, in my experience,
00:55:14
Speaker
I don't think it's healthy to sit within just that all day, every day. And I don't actually see it as a a a privilege to decide for periods of your day to put it aside and be happy.
00:55:29
Speaker
I think that's just called being human, you know? i agree. Right? And um I'm curious for you, What is something, you know, if you were to sort of imagine those pockets of happiness, what what is something that has been bringing you joy these days?
00:55:46
Speaker
What's bringing me joy? What's bringing me joy this week? um well yeah so I actually miss yeah it's sort of like the idea of joy, but also hope. Right. Like what's something that's like keeping you hopeful going forward?
00:55:59
Speaker
um o Yeah, that is interesting. i yeah I found myself in an incredibly dark period at the beginning of this year. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm going to be real honest on the pod right now. I started this year in the psych ward, got out of the psych ward, immediately got fired, and then immediately got dumped.
00:56:20
Speaker
You got the trinity. Yeah. that is ridity low that is a low place to come from um but in the past like since the years started i have just gone like fucking crazy workaholic mode and been like all right what are all of the things i want how do i get all the things i want what are the steps to that so you know i'm like i never went to college i want to go to college figuring that out Fuck yeah.
00:56:50
Speaker
it's it's to me what gives me hope there is absolutely nothing i love more than a box ticked on a to-do list o fuck yeah that and i find that i'm it's better to like i am showing up for my community also better in this way of just like you know i'm keeping up with people i'm keeping up with like like my responsibilities to the community and to myself and you know to my roommate and to my family and like um you know
00:57:21
Speaker
it just just taking everything back. you know I'm kind of grateful for everything that went on because it's a clean break, right? It's like if my life was making me that miserable anyways, like it's a good thing that a bunch of shit in my life changed all at once yeah and I can kind of rebuild how I want it to be.
00:57:40
Speaker
So in those moments where I'm not like, Like, you know, looking at the news, because I try to interact with the news like I'm like a man in the 50s. You know, you read the newspaper in the morning and then you watch the TV news at night or the radio or whatever.
00:57:53
Speaker
yeah And so it's like I wake up to CBC radio on my alarm clock because I have a physical alarm clock. Fuck yeah. A radio alarm clock. I wake up to CBC radio. I listen to it for a bit and then I go, that's enough.
00:58:06
Speaker
yeah And then I check social media once in the morning after I've like had coffee and whatever. And then I go, that's enough. And then at night I kind of check in again.
Importance of Local Government Participation
00:58:15
Speaker
um But I try not to, to just kind of obsess over that all day. And so in those kind of blank moments where I'm not looking at the, the world's,
00:58:25
Speaker
At large, I'm looking at the small world. you know I think that a big way to kind of get yourself out of really dark bits is to just shrink your world. yeah like I can't stop Elon Musk from doing whatever Elon Musk is doing, but I can like um go to mending workshop so that I can learn how to darn my socks so that I'm putting less ah like fabric waste into the landfills.
00:58:52
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like what shrinking your community like or your world to see like what can I actually affect? What can I do? um Has made me happier and has, I think, made me a better friend, a better person, a better community member. Yeah, I think that's wonderful. And I think I think that's spot on. And yeah that's definitely in line with a lot of the sort of ethos I've been putting out is this idea of like, yeah, these things.
00:59:19
Speaker
are too big for one person. And so we do, we do have to recognize, you know, it, it obviously we need to stay aware, but we also don't like, it's kind of form of like, I don't know. I think there's a lot of different pieces that come into play that it's like, I think it's a form of like self abuse.
00:59:35
Speaker
I, uh, to like over indulge, like over, yeah you know, inundate yourself with it. And I, and I also think it's just, it hits a point of saturation where it's like, you You know, you already know you have all the information, you know, like like now what are you going to go do, you know, um rather than than yeah really recycling the same fucking memes in the same. But, you know, it's like, no, what are you going to do? And um and and yeah, it comes back to that community thing of like everybody offer has something to offer.
01:00:03
Speaker
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. What what are you going to do? What are you going to learn? What skills can you bring to the table to affect your immediate? Like i get emails and like surveys and stuff from the city of Vancouver, from the Vancouver plan, from the Granville Island 2045 plan.
01:00:20
Speaker
um Of all of these things of like, ah especially urban planning, it's like my like special interest, I guess. I'm really, really into it. um Like car, anti-car or whatever. um yeah yeah Not that cars are bad in general, just that the building our world around an experiment that's only been around for like 100 years is probably not good.
01:00:41
Speaker
um yeah um and And so, you know, I get really invested in those ways and I try to find like community meetings I can go to because I guarantee you it's all old conservatives.
01:00:53
Speaker
That's right. Like if you want your voice to be heard, like the people that show up to these things are old conservatives. That's why things are the way they are. Show up to your municipal like meetings. like Yeah. Yeah. Let yourself be heard.
01:01:05
Speaker
yeah yeah well and especially that's the thing to remember too is that it's like the things that actually have a day-to-day impact on you are that municipal level you know governance and like that's the stuff we should be the most keyed into but it's the thing we're the least you know um or shouldn't say we you know ah most more commonly you know um it's the thing we're the least engaged with right and and Yeah, I feel I agree. I think the more we can tap into the sort of civic responsibility, you know, or the just, you know, the communal responsibility, the better off we can all be. Right.
01:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And that's not like a ton of work. It's not like you're changing the world. It's like, oh, you're working on Ken Sim's schedule. Come on. Yeah, it's like, really happening yeah, yeah. Fuck Ken Sim. I don't care you got that or not.
01:01:51
Speaker
No, you know what's funny? Oh, my God. I got to tell you a story. We were just at Boom Boom Wrestling the other day. and uh he showed up he was there and i i found out and i just started yelling from my seat i started yelling fuck ken sim um i didn't know where he was in the room uh but i just started yelling it over and again over again fuck ken sim and one of the like one of the like uh guys who runs the show came over and was like could you maybe cool it there's lots of kids around i was like oh yeah that's totally fair you know but um yeah but uh But then, but then i don't know if you're familiar with Boom Wrestling or not. It's a local... I'm not. like Okay, it's incredible.
01:02:27
Speaker
Everybody should go see it. It's incredible. One of their wrestlers... It's the fucking best. amazing One of their wrestlers is literally Abraham Lincoln. it's ah It's a guy who comes out as Abraham Lincoln and he wrestles. and and And there was this moment of silence in in the match and someone yelled out, you're the only politician in this room I'd vote for.
Community Vibes: Vancouver vs. Calgary
01:02:48
Speaker
LAUGHTER And the entire room erupted, right? It was just because everybody was like, oh my God, fucking Ken Sim is here. What are we going to do? We need to do something, you know? And and and that was the best. Yeah, it was like the biggest pop of the entire night. It was the fucking best. He came into my old work a day I wasn't there.
01:03:05
Speaker
Thank God I would have lost my job. I lost it anyways, but i i would have that day probably lost my job. And then yeah one time I was working the kids market on Granville Island, which I loved.
01:03:18
Speaker
um I was managing a store in there and ah Trudeau came in. Wow. and With his like kids and his wife. we were all kind of He didn't come into my store because there's 25 toy stores in there, but right um but he walked by and we were all just kind of sitting there like,
01:03:35
Speaker
what do we do right yeah what do we say i punch him or do i kiss him you know like yeah it's like this is so fucking like where's clean water for the reservations and that's just it it hits a point of just like what do i want i just want to scream but i don't know about what you know yeah like yeah
01:04:04
Speaker
ah To you, how has Vancouver compared to Calgary in terms of community? Like, what is like what's what are the big fucking differences that you've noticed? Yeah.
01:04:15
Speaker
I think about that a lot, actually, because I think that there is a...
01:04:21
Speaker
i think that there's a misconception about both. Yeah. Vancouver has this stereotype of being in a very unfriendly city. And I think to a degree that's true. But I think that that is like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
01:04:33
Speaker
I think if you don't put yourself out there, then people have, there's no reason to bring you in. Like, it it's sort of like, it's sort of like people who are like, I'm going to be famous, but then just don't do anything.
01:04:45
Speaker
And it's like, nobody's going to show up and give you the thing you want, you have to go out and do it. Right. And I think, um, I think a piece of that is that it is easier to connect to people in a place like that in Calgary.
01:04:57
Speaker
Um, I think that there is a, a bit of a prairie stereotype of like, people are a little bit more, ah prone to kind of reaching out, you know, uh, I've lived, you know, I lived in Calgary and in Saskatoon for a couple years. And, and I found that like prairie people are a little bit more proactive than they are out here.
01:05:17
Speaker
um But in the long term, I think they're just as friendly here. You just have to be the one kind of like you have to strong arm your way into things a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And and I just and I also do find that there isn't actually that much to do.
01:05:34
Speaker
You know, like if you don't if you if you're not a drinker. Or like a partier, there's not tons to do. Like there, that's not to say, I know that there is stuff going on, but it is so much of it are in these little pockets that are really hard to find, you know? almost, it feels like there's these little, these little like glimmering lights all over the place, but nobody really knows how to connect any of them, you know?
01:05:58
Speaker
um And, and that's one of the things I've really struggled with here is like finding my way into these little lights, you know, ah for lack better way of putting it. No, that that actually makes perfect sense to me.
01:06:10
Speaker
and I don't think people here are all that unfriendly either. In fact, I think they're probably more unfriendly on the surface, but more friendly when you get to know them. And in category, I think people are more friendly on the surface and more unfriendly when you get to know them.
01:06:24
Speaker
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah. I find that the the further east you get, the more like, quote unquote, Canadian you get. um And I think the biggest lie the world has ever told is that Canadians are friendly.
01:06:39
Speaker
um They're not. Canadians are not friendly. Canadians are passive aggressive. um yeah we're we're ah We are a country of passive aggressive assholes. And so we look nice and we, oh yeah, what but then you turn your back and we're just shit talking, you know?
01:06:54
Speaker
Absolutely. And so like Canadians are actually deeply aggressive people. They're just also cowards, you know? um And I find that that gets ah truer the further east you get, you know? And so so in in in Vancouver, they appear unfriendly because they're kind of the least bullshitty of the country.
01:07:12
Speaker
you know at least of the lower provinces you know but uh yeah but uh um but yeah i i think you're spot on too i think that the veneer comes off pretty fast in the prairies yeah i think so too and also like the whole thing of like the whole world thinks canada is toronto but and then they're like canadians are so nice and i'm like torontonians are fucking assholes dick heads dickheads i lived there for like a short amount of time as a kid and i don't like all my memories of like people in public are like this is ah the terrible everybody's unkind like you know it breaks my heart too because like uh some of my like absolute life lifelong ride or die friends live in toronto and like i would do anything in this world to be closer to them and see them more
01:08:03
Speaker
But they live in Toronto. yeah Yeah, literally. So I'm like, except for the one thing, you know? and but So sorry, folks, you know, we'll we'll keep we'll keep our group chat going, you know?
01:08:17
Speaker
I'm slowly but surely getting all of my friends out here. Yeah, that's smart. It's happening. It's a shocking amount of my friend group is people that have been in my friend group for like a decade. And we're all from Calgary. Fuck yeah.
01:08:30
Speaker
Which it kind of sucks because it's kind of like, I love that we just brought here. Yeah. There is something magic too about resetting, right? Like about getting to like not have to like, like there's something beautiful about people who knew you and know your different phases. And there's also something really beautiful about people who you're just like ground zero with right now, you know? Yes.
01:08:51
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
01:08:55
Speaker
Um, I feel like I cut you off. I cut off your last thought. No, you didn't. You didn't. oh You didn't. i I don't even know what I was going to say next. I don't know if I had anything to say next.
01:09:06
Speaker
I don't know what's, I don't know what's going to come out of my mouth until it already has at any point. Fair, fair. Um, let's, let's get to that big, the big, uh, the big roundup question.
01:09:18
Speaker
Whew. You know, obviously this, that yeah, this, the, the, one of the germ ideas behind the show is interrogating, you know, it really started with this question of have I been a good friend and, and, and, you know, thinking I haven't been and over the years deciding, well, no, I've just been a guy.
01:09:33
Speaker
um But, you know, like, it's like, whatever, you know, right. um But, um but I, I do feel like this question of friendship remains really vital and, and, and interesting because
Understanding Friendship
01:09:44
Speaker
like community,
01:09:45
Speaker
everybody has a personal experience with it and yet we don't always sort of sit with the question of what the word actually means to us personally you know and so i'm really curious again from your sort of just personal vantage point what does it mean to be a friend i've i've i've thought about this question and I, it's it's so hard to answer.
01:10:12
Speaker
I have maybe not been a good friend for a lot of my life. And that's something I kind of have had to reckon with on and off and like adjust my behavior and, and whatever. i find that You know, that kind of goes back to things that we've been saying before. Being a good friend means giving more of a shit about what the other person is going to say than what you have to say.
01:10:39
Speaker
um You know, being being a good friend is being more interested in the world around you and the people around you than you are in yourself. um To me is is sort of what I would go with there. Because... um Yeah, I think ah ah again in the world is set up in a way that wants you to be sort of so insular all the time, like with social media, it's so obsessive of like, how do people see me? How do people see me like?
01:11:07
Speaker
um And, you know, i think a lot of the time times where I've tried to be a good friend, I've really tried to do it to look good. And then i don't know ah one day, like probably like five or six years ago, like a long time ago, I was like, this is not a way to live.
01:11:23
Speaker
yeah And I'm bored. I'm bored with myself. I'm boring. i already know everything I'm going to say. That's boring.
01:11:31
Speaker
um It's, you know, i i've i put a lot of effort into just kind of noticing the world around me and noticing things that go, because there's you know there's a lot of stuff on the surface. like I always write really long birthday and Christmas cards for my friends, and I've done that for years and years. And I'm at the point where I'm like,
01:11:54
Speaker
I've kind of said all I can say. yeah If every year I'm just writing, I'm so proud of you. Like, but like, you know, two pages of it. like Yeah. That's why I was just right. I was just like, Merry Christmas, eat a dick.
01:12:06
Speaker
That's my, that that's Christmas reading. Well, see, I want to change my, I want, I want to change my, my card writing um ah style, but now I'm, I'm afraid that if I do, everybody's going to be like, wow, you suck now because I've built this, this expectation. Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:24
Speaker
yeah But then I think about something like that and that's so like surface level. like Like, you know, there's so many ways that I do show up for my friends and that my incredible friends show up for me. um That, you know, those kind of surface level like, oh, am I being a good friend? I'm such a good friend because I write these long letters like, shut the fuck up, me. You want to punch, you know? Yeah, exactly. God, please. Yeah.
01:12:52
Speaker
I think somebody needs some bullying is what but yeah
01:12:58
Speaker
I would love to get bullied. I'm i'm at the point. i think I think that's what shrooms are. it's like it to sell Psychic Yeah. let's see yeah
01:13:10
Speaker
Yes. I love it. I love it. But keep going. Sorry, I derailed you. Yeah. that was Yeah. i yeah um Yeah. I think that, ah yeah, I guess distilled. It's just being a good friend is is caring more about what the other person has to say and what the other person has to do than what you do.
01:13:29
Speaker
yeah And it doesn't mean like putting their needs above yours. like that's right that There are times for that. There are times when people are in need in a way where you put their needs above yours. Like I think a lot of us are quick to be like, oh, I have no energy. Like I can't really show up to my friend's thing. It's like, go to your friend's thing.
01:13:46
Speaker
yeah like could go Go support your friends. and That's right. but um But I think there are times where you know it does it doesn't mean actually always putting your needs above other people's because then that's just a simple way to burn out and resent your friends.
01:14:00
Speaker
Of course. um But just yeah caring more about what they have to say and what they can teach you. than what you can teach
Overcoming Mental Barriers
01:14:09
Speaker
them i suppose and i mean i i think and building on that idea too is that idea you know that that excuse is so fucking boring of like oh my capacity it's like no like like what are you going to do tonight you're goingnna fucking sit on your couch and watch youtube you know like come on go to your friend's show buy your friend's book or whatever the fuck it is you know like yeah grow up you know like grow up
01:14:32
Speaker
I mean, to an extent, like, I mean, I'm chronically ill. I have long COVID. My joints do not fucking work properly. And so sometimes it is, you know, sometimes it is just like, you know, what like my knee is going to dislocate if I go out again today. like But then, you know.
01:14:47
Speaker
ah But I think especially a lot of the time, it's a mental kind of trap that we set ourselves in. And I call it, I have this whole theory and it's called the grilled cheese theory. Because I love nothing more than making a grilled cheese. And the grilled cheeses I make are God tier.
01:15:00
Speaker
I've never had a better one. i It's my special secret talent. I love them. but And they're so easy to make. And it takes like 10 minutes tops to make them.
01:15:11
Speaker
But I go through periods where I'm like depressed and I'm not cooking for myself, and it feels like an impossible task to make a grilled cheese. It's like, oh my God, like getting up, getting everything out, like cutting things and like like whatever, it feels like an impossible, huge task.
01:15:26
Speaker
But then if I just do it and I just get in the habit of doing it, right now I'm in a grilled cheese mode. Making a grilled cheese feels like it's absolutely nothing. Yeah. um But, you know, you can get into those periods where it is an impossible task. And the only way to get through that is to do whatever the impossible task, quote unquote, is.
01:15:42
Speaker
yeah Yeah. and just recognize french show or whatever Yeah. And just recognize that that's not impossible. It's just a good thing to do. You know? Yeah. Yeah. That's that's the grilled cheese theory.
01:15:56
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. That's fabulous. um um that That leads me right into my last my last sort of thing. I always like to leave listeners, as a last question, I i always like to leave them with like an un actionable thing, something that they can try doing this week.
01:16:12
Speaker
um And I think yeah think you've kind of given it, but I'm not going to speak for you. um I'm curious, what is one thing listeners could try doing to be a better friend either to themselves or to to their community this week?
01:16:24
Speaker
Well, if i if I was going with our conversation we were just having had, I would say show up to things. But what I wrote down is actually read the books that your friends lend you. Yeah.
01:16:36
Speaker
Fuck yeah. In preparation for this, I thought of that. And I think because then that's an insight into your friend. They wanted you to read that for a reason. Yeah. um It's something that. It's easy to do. That won't take you as long. It's not an impossible task to read a book.
01:16:50
Speaker
I know we're used to reading 15-second videos, but like it's it's not an impossible task. Actually read the books your friends lend you and go to their events.
01:17:02
Speaker
I love that. i think Both of those are fabulous. Thank you for that. and that i mean that that that you It's so funny you should bring up the book thing because I'm actually on this funny... um just like a personal thing. This is a total like personal context thing, but like I've realized that like ah buying books and reading books are two separate hobbies, you know? Yes, 100%. And i'm i'm I'm much more of like a book as aesthetic person.
01:17:30
Speaker
um I read, I read a fuckload, but I i find myself more engaged with like audio books or like, you know, just other ways of taking in the media.
01:17:42
Speaker
um Whereas the book itself, like just to sit quietly and read a book, sometimes, especially lately, for whatever reason, feels like I'm putting a gun to my head, you know? Like it just feels... Feels like an impossible task. Right?
01:17:55
Speaker
i Make the grilled cheese sandwich. I was going to say, so I think I'm going to, I think I'm going to fight back on that thought. and I'm going to, I'm going to try... getting back into it, you know, if only because i need I need to read some of these before I resell them, you know, but... I set like a 30-minute... I'm like, okay, I'll read for 30 minutes, and by the end of that 30 minutes, I'm engrossed. I want to keep reading.
01:18:16
Speaker
hey You know? Yep. Yep. And that's, i mean, that's a trick for anything. If you're resistant to anything, it's like set a timer for like a really, like whatever you think would be a manageable time. We've done this. I've done this in therapy where it's like, he's like, set yourself you sometimes like with my writing and I'm like, Oh, i can't do anything. He's like, set your annual word count goal to be 10 words.
01:18:37
Speaker
Like he's like all year, All I need to do is write 10 words, you know, and then you'll sit down, write 10 words and realize it took you five fucking seconds and then you'll write more, you know, um or if you want to break down easier of like a daily thing. Right. Of like I need to write one word, you know, um and then, you know, but like, yeah, setting yourself manageable little bite sized goals and then suddenly you're in it and you're like, oh, yeah, we're cooking.
01:18:58
Speaker
Right. I did that.
Meeting Interesting People
01:18:59
Speaker
I was like, I'm going to clean my sink today. And I ended up cleaning like my sink, my bathtub, like all of it this morning. There you go. I was just, I was in the zone, you know? Yeah. Fuck yeah. Magda, you're incredible. This has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on the show. like i Thank you, James. Same to you.
01:19:16
Speaker
Like, you know, ah what well when we when when we met at Teen X, which we didn't even talk about, but but I guess now we need more we need more fodder for the for the follow-up episode down the road. but um But, you know, when we met ah at Teen X, you know, there was just such like a... You were somebody who was just like, oh, there's like, there's like you know, just like...
01:19:34
Speaker
I don't even know what the right word for it is. Like, I just, you, you, you really piqued my interest, you know? Like, you're just somebody who really stood out. And, and, uh, I was so... And same to you. Thank you.
01:19:45
Speaker
It was like, it was just, it was so exciting to connect with you as like somebody brand new who I had no connection with. And it was just like, oh, there's like... it's ah It's like that feeling of like, you know, I don't know if you've ever had the if you've had the experience experience in town where it's like, you almost feel like you've kind of met all the cool people.
01:20:02
Speaker
And some of them are your friends. Some of them hate you. But you've kind of like saturated the ah community because it's a small community here, you know? Yeah. yeah And then every once while somebody pops out and you're like oh, shit, there's new people. Fuck yeah. You know, like. yeah i' I had the exact same feeling meeting you. So that is a very cool to hear. I'm glad I'm cool. I love that.
01:20:22
Speaker
fuck yeah i think
01:20:26
Speaker
um And I'm, I'm, you know, speaking of your magazine, I'm cooking up something I want to submit. um um But I, yeah, I just want to say like, yeah you know, i'm i've I've been listening to your music and and you're fantastic.
01:20:39
Speaker
All the links are going to be in the show notes. But I did want to ask as a last little thing, um where, where can listeners find
Magda's Music and Magazine Promotion
01:20:45
Speaker
you? Where would you, what would you like to plug? what do you have coming up? Oh, yeah, I'm on all streaming services, Magda Baker. um Most of my music is somebody with a completely different voice. um But my my recent album in the wasteland is self produced, my first self produced album. So it doesn't sound great, but I love it.
01:21:05
Speaker
ah Please go stream it on all services. i also have a music video out for Wrong Place, Wrong Time, ah the single for that album. And it was a really fun video to make. And it's on YouTube.
01:21:16
Speaker
And it's great. It's a ton of fun with the skeleton and the die. Oh, you watched it? and i Yeah, it's great. Thank you. Absolutely. Yeah. And ah yeah, beautiful trash for beautiful people. We're setting up a website right now. The best way to see kind of our work is on our Instagram. We have a link tree and our issues that are available online um on issue.com.
01:21:41
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah. Check out all the, you'll put all the little links and stuff. If I miss anything. It'll be on all in the show notes. Yeah. You got it. Beautiful. yeah Awesome. Well, Magda, one more time. Thank you so much. This has been just but an absolute treat. And yeah.
01:21:55
Speaker
ah Go get bullied now. I don't know. I don't know how to sign this off. you know yeah Thanks. I will. Go make a grilled cheese. but yeah
01:22:17
Speaker
And that's it. Thank you once more to Magda for joining me this week. Be sure to go check out his music and also give Beautiful Trash a read. You'll find links to all of that in the show notes. And if you check out the latest issue, you're actually going to find some your boy Jimmy's poems in there. So be sure to give that a read.
01:22:36
Speaker
If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe, leave us a five-star review, and share it with somebody who you think would really love it. Every little bit counts, so thank you for helping me get the word out about Friendless.
01:22:49
Speaker
And if you want more Friendless content, be sure to subscribe to the monthly Substack newsletter. You're going to get curated recommendations of books, movies, and whatever else I've been obsessing over that month, along with a brand new playlist and exclusive bonus writing from yours truly.
01:23:04
Speaker
all that and so much more, and it's completely free. So sign up today, find the links in the show notes. But that's going to be it for me this week. So thank you so much for listening. And I hope I'm going to catch you back here next week for a brand new solo episode.
01:23:18
Speaker
But I'm not going to worry about that right now. And neither should you, because that is then and this is now. So for now, I'll just say I love you. hope you go make a great grilled cheese.
01:23:30
Speaker
And I hope you have a wonderful week. Fun and safety, sweeties.
01:23:38
Speaker
you