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Cause Ya Gotta Have Faith (with special guest Zazu Payne)
92 Plays3 days ago
In this very special episode of Friendless, host James Avramenko dives into an insightful and heartfelt conversation with Zazu Payne, a biomedical engineer, board game enthusiast, and self-proclaimed 'friendship guru'. Zazu shares his journey from being a self-described 'selfish guy' to someone deeply invested in building authentic connections through community and faith. They discuss the power of vulnerability, the beauty in others, and how true friendships can start in the most unexpected places. Tune in for a candid discussion on the complexities of friendship and the courage it takes to show up genuinely in our increasingly disconnected world.
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Transcript
Introduction and Background
00:00:08
Speaker
Well hey there sweet peas! Welcome back to Friendless! I'm your host James Avromenko and today I'm thrilled to welcome Zazu Payne, my new enemies to lovers archetype that I met while playing Codenames Live!
00:00:21
Speaker
Zazu is everything from a biomedical engineer, a board game enthusiast, and what he calls a friendship guru. But what really stands out about him is his unique perspective on community and how faith has shaped his approach to human connection.
00:00:35
Speaker
In our conversation, we explore what it means to truly see the beauty in others, the power of authentic relationships, and how sometimes the strongest friendships start in the most unexpected places.
00:00:46
Speaker
Let's get into it. All right.
Philosophy of Friendship
00:00:49
Speaker
This week on Friendless, I have someone who, you know, I've only met once ah in, I defeated him recently on Codenames Live. Yeah.
00:01:02
Speaker
That's how we're starting it? That's how we're starting it. ah Just, you know, brand new connection. ah Someone who, you know, we just, yeah, we it felt like we really clicked on the show.
00:01:12
Speaker
Someone who I hope to, you know, I hope to someday call a friend, but I don't know if we're necessarily there yet. But but yeah the one, the only, Zazu Payne, how the fuck are you today? I'm doing most excellent, and we are friends. Yeah, yeah okay, okay. We're Facebook friends. That's like...
00:01:30
Speaker
That's as deep as it gets for some people, I feel like, you know? You know, you just, you never want to be, you know, I'm definitely of that mentality, personally, but it's like, you never want to overstep, you know? never want to be, yeah you know? i think for me, personally, too, it's like, I meet people, and I'm like, oh, you're I immediately like you.
00:01:45
Speaker
Can we just be best friends? But, like, not everybody's that, like, they don't have that kind of, like, for sure German Shepherd entered energy, right? you know For sure, for sure. yeah yeah um So yeah in the in the intake form, i wanted to I wanted to ask you
Struggles and Growth
00:01:59
Speaker
about this. In the intake form, you list your your kind of your chiron as across the board, and it's incredible. And I want i want to read some of these out.
00:02:07
Speaker
Biomedical engineer. board gamer, musician, disciple, which I really like, creator, athlete, and the reason you're on the show, friendship connoisseur. And, uh, and that just really runs the gamut here, you know? And, and so summing all that up leads me perfectly to my opening question of Zazu, who the fuck are you?
00:02:31
Speaker
I am, um, all those things you, you listed, um, foremost, uh, disciple, um, I just, I love God. um And it's, that's kind of led me to friendship, honestly. Like, yeah um i'm ah I'm a selfish guy. I was born a selfish guy. Like my sisters, my parents, they would all tell you the exact same thing.
00:02:52
Speaker
And then um i went from selfish to like, just kind of closed off. um i was I was young, was really young. but ah But yeah, started see like, oh, there's a little bit of like, there's something about everybody that's just like,
00:03:04
Speaker
so unique, so beautiful. Even the people that you don't like or annoy you you, you sit with them long enough and you find like, oh man, never seen that, never saw that. Like you're, you're, you're an awesome person. And think that's that little piece of ah God we all have in us. So and foremost, disciple, second, like friend, because people are the best thing this world has to offer in my opinion. um, if you can be an enemy or a friend, you know, I think friends, uh,
00:03:28
Speaker
the better path. so I love that.
Connection and Loneliness
00:03:31
Speaker
I love that. and And, you know, I really like the idea of like, it's something I've been thinking about a lot recently is this idea of like, um you know, the more lonely you are, often that means, you know, ah more um the more you personally need to learn tolerance.
00:03:47
Speaker
Do you know what i mean? Right. oh yeah And so it's like it's often, you know, in in moments of isolation for myself, i've I've found internal excuses for why it's other people's fault. And and more and more over the last couple of years, I've been trying to turn that as like moments of introspection of like, what is it that I'm causing, you know, yeah and how can I then reach out for help? Right.
00:04:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah. and And I'm curious about, yeah, how do you sort of how do you take these these sort of philosophies and and kind of put them out into the world? How do you how do you apply them in practice?
00:04:22
Speaker
When I meet somebody just like me, and we met that one time. We're friends like already. Like i loved you before I met you and I met you. I loved you more. and if I meet you and I hate you, then there's there's something wrong with me. Right. Yeah.
00:04:37
Speaker
So even if it's, maybe you're just a dickhead, but you know, like, but I put it on myself, you know, like I didn't give them a fair shake. Yeah. We could be in a room full of people and I hit it off with nine out of 10 of them, but, uh, I'm going to call that 10th person, but Hey, you want to, want to to breakfast? Like just to see like, what don't I like about this person?
00:04:56
Speaker
And it's it's always a hundred percent of the time. Like there's always some common ground, you know, i've never walked away with somebody and we're like going to kill each other
Theory vs. Practice: Connection in a Divided World
00:05:04
Speaker
the next day. It's always something that, they They had a chip on their shoulder. i had chip on my shoulder.
00:05:09
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, yeah. ah yeah and the i love You know, it's such an interesting conundrum right now because I feel like, you know, with the state of, you know, look, you're you're you're calling in from America. I'm calling in from Canada, you know, and it's like there's all kinds of, what you know, like incredibly high high tension things going on in the world. Oh, yeah. And so it – Sometimes there's a bit of ah a wedge between the sort of like the philosophical theory versus like how it actually gets put into practice.
00:05:38
Speaker
But I do often find myself leaning more towards the sort of the theoretical of like, there's got to be more connecting us than disconnecting us, yeah you know, and and. um the trouble I encounter is like, how do you apply that in the real world um with people who are, you know, actively trying to cause not just harm, but like violence and you're right, you know, and yeah yeah how do you find those connective tissues with those kinds people?
00:06:08
Speaker
I root it back to, I truly believe there are some evil people in the world, but few and far between. Yeah. and And that's kind of where where it starts. I'm like, man, like is this person evil? like ri We somehow ended up in the same spot. like yeah I don't know how you got there, like but you know you go to a party, like that person knows somebody in this room. like they didn't They didn't jump out of a taxi cab and like like knock on the door and like somebody let in a stranger. So it's it's that piece of it. And and then, like I said before, like i mean my belief system is like,
00:06:45
Speaker
I was created by God. So there's some, there's some godly quality to you, whether it's been snuffed out or you've renounced or you don't want anything to deal with it. There's something good in you.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yeah. So. I love
Board Games and Community Building
00:06:59
Speaker
it. I love that. Oh, Zazie, we're, we're, we're, we're cooking. I love Like best friends, right? yeah Exactly. Right there. We went from the question mark to the exclamation mark.
00:07:10
Speaker
ah um ah I want us to circle back to another piece, though. You know, obviously, we but you know I razzed you at the top about codenames, but, you know... um That really links into another element. you know i On the show, you talked a lot about the the board games you play.
00:07:24
Speaker
um and And obviously, yeah, as you as you said, that something brought you to that room, right? you know yeah and and And I'm curious if you could tell me a little bit more about yeah about sort of your past.
00:07:35
Speaker
what's What's your history with board games? board games and And is that what led you to Codenames? Or how did you end up there that night? I ended up there... Uh, so this is a long story that going make short. No, you know what? Interesting. honestly long Honestly, it's why we're, it's why we're on a podcast, you know, it's for, let's do it.
00:07:53
Speaker
Give it the medium size at least, you know? So in high school, there's thing called young life. Um, had a buddy Mondo who was a young life leader. It's like a Christian organization to go into school. Basically we just go and hang out. Um, but you know, every once while there's a, you read a verse or two.
00:08:14
Speaker
So I met him 12 years, 10 years later. We're on Facebook. I'm like, it's pandemic. im I'm playing Xbox like too many hours of the day. I'm like, let me sell this Xbox. yeah yeah And I do.
00:08:30
Speaker
And
Social Media and Connections
00:08:31
Speaker
um the person that buys it off Facebook marketplaces is my buddy Mondo, who I hadn't seen in 10 years. And he comes over. I got got like a little shrine of a board games.
00:08:44
Speaker
And he goes, oh, you play board games. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. And he's like, cool, me too. You should come over. You should have a game night. And so I go and he's like, man, you're very charismatic. Like I'm doing this TikTok thing and it's going pretty cool. I just show people game, talk about design. And I was like, yeah, whatever. No, thanks. I did the media thing for a while i was doing music. and I'm not really into it.
00:09:04
Speaker
And then a couple times after him pestering me, he ah shows me as like 40, 50, 60,000 people following. I'm like, oh shit. You're like, You're like legit. Like you got it going on. He goes, yeah, yeah. So he slowly starts to introduce me to people and yeah gets me involved and I start doing videos.
00:09:20
Speaker
And um so Tim reached out to him because he's ah he's obviously a big deal. So Tim knew him and ah so i was on with him and he's like, hey, like open invitation. Like you've been a guest. Now you can come on and host your own team.
00:09:32
Speaker
And ah yeah, the rest is history, man. I just took advantage of the opportunity. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Have you been on many times or? That was my second. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Okay. So you're okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. I'm so, I'm, you know, I'm so out of the loop of that stuff. I feel like I, I, I, I owe Tim more attention than I ended up giving him, you know, like, yeah how do you know Tim?
00:09:54
Speaker
ah You know, honestly, it's a really similar, really similar story. a really dear friend of mine, Brian, who, again, funny enough, he's huge on TikTok. He's, he's, he's, you might have seen a video. He, he, his most recent really big one was about hoisin sauce and and going to the store and always having ah a bottle of hoisin sauce. And it turned into a song and,
00:10:15
Speaker
yeah nemified it's He's the best, the bean-off. um He, uh, he, yeah, he brought me on as a guest and then, and then Tim
Gaming Communities
00:10:22
Speaker
said, come back. And, and then I keep on somehow sneaking my way into, to more episodes, you know, he keeps on bringing me back. Right. yeah
00:10:34
Speaker
You know, the, the world of, um, you're tapping into, you I was just talking with Sam, actually, uh, Sam Murdoch was just on the show. the, the, the mod of mod of, uh, yeah. Yeah. Codenames. you know, we were talking really in depth about sort of these communities around like video games and, and board games and, and, and how they kind of maintain themselves, but then how there's also um even within the subcultures, there's a lot of like, into you know, infighting and there's a lot yeah right. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah and And I, I'd be really curious to hear your sort of, yeah, yeah let's let's start there. Like, um,
00:11:09
Speaker
What is your kind of experience with, ah let's let's start with board games and work our way out to video games, because I feel like those are bigger. OK, OK. But how has been your experience with the sort of the the community of the subculture of board games? and And how do you yourself kind of show up within that or maintain that community?
00:11:27
Speaker
So we just got back. So Gamma Expo, the Game Manufacturing Expo, um first time there. was told by a couple of people, yeah, it's not really something for content creators. It's mostly retail and blah, blah, blah. I was like, I'm just going check it out.
00:11:44
Speaker
yeah needed to see my cousin. He lives in Kentucky where they, where they hosted it. So i went and man, it's, it's just crazy. Like I've been doing it a year and a couple months, but through Mondo, through Tim, the other people that I meet, ah i'd I'd make a hard connection really quick. Like we're going to friends no matter what, but we're going to be like closer than some of your friends you've known forever. Just, with the way we're communicating, you know, the way you're communicating and asking, like, if you were here in Atlanta, we'd be in my kitchen right now doing this. Like I'd like, I'd like James, come over, come over. Let's hang, you know? um
00:12:17
Speaker
so through that, it's like you get that energy and it's, it's contagious, you know, like people introduced me to the people they like, and introduced the people already met. So ah I've been doing a year, there's people have been doing it, you know, a decade and I'm just kind of like, and, and,
00:12:35
Speaker
it's it's ah It's a gift and a curse. So I don't really,
Genuine Human Connections
00:12:38
Speaker
i got a lot going on as you saw on that sheet. So i don't I don't dive all the way into anything. So everybody I'm meeting, it's like a'm meeting, like i've I've never seen their content. I don't know what they do. i just They're just a human being and yeah and I'm me and and we meet and there's sometimes people see they see that as refreshing. I've had two encounters where they were like, you don't know who I am.
00:12:57
Speaker
right um One of the guys is, we're cool now. like Like I said, you know, when I meet somebody like that, I give them a chance. Um, but yeah, he's like, you don't know who I am. And he had hundred X the following I have, but I was like, no, like, why how would I know you?
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah. And, uh, he just never shows his face, uh, on camera and I went and looked and I was just like, oh, that's, you are cool. Like I'll follow you. you're You're not following me. And that's what, yeah know, that's what ticked him off, but it's, uh, it's just how I roll and it makes, maybe I'd get nervous otherwise. So I do it also for selfish reasons, you know, like, yeah.
00:13:33
Speaker
I like to be on an even plane with folks. But I think that that's refreshing, you know? Yeah. I've i've i've found, like, um in my very in my very fleeting and far-between encounters with real celebrity, you know, ah the the people I've met who I just, like, talked to you like a human were always much more engaged than the people who I came to with, like, oh, my God, you're, ah you know, right? and um um And i I was trying to remind myself that it's, like,
00:14:02
Speaker
everybody's just a person, you know? And, yeah and, and, uh, uh, it, it's something I think a lot about recently. Actually, there's been a lot of, um, you know, there's a lot of, I mean, it's always happening, but recently i've been seeing a lot of vitriol around certain celebrities around, you know, what they sort of owe their audience and, and this sort of demand for celebrity, you know? Yeah. um And, and I find it really misses the point because it's like an artist, ah from my perspective, an artist doesn't owe you anything. They've already given you the thing that you like.
00:14:33
Speaker
yeah Right. That's why you're there. yeah Exactly. Right. yeah You know, so it's, it's, it's not a, it's not a one or the other. It's a, it's a symbio it's a symbiosis, you know, and there's a balance. And I think when, I think the problems come when one side expects too much of the other, you know? Yeah. um Cue Kanye West, you know? Jesus Christ, right? Yeah, yeah. So i as i was like, I can't like,
00:14:57
Speaker
I literally can't consume anything he does outside of music. I go to him for music, that's it. Even that is like there's a hard cutoff. Yeah, yeah. yeah And it's been a long time since that cutoff started. yeah.
Evolving Views on Art and Artists
00:15:11
Speaker
But he's, you know, god damn.
00:15:12
Speaker
but it's i mean that he's you know god damn I don't know if I've even fully to this day fully, fully reckoned with the kind of like almost like the grief of losing an artist like that from my life. Yeah. You know, because it was so massive for so long. I remember picking up College Dropout, you know, on the CD when it first came out and and and just being like, you know, it's one of those moments where you just like new doors of your brain are open, you know, and you're just like, oh, fuck, this is what art could be.
00:15:39
Speaker
Right. and And oh, yeah. And then, yeah, to see where he's at now is just, oh, man. Yeah, you just...
00:15:48
Speaker
ah Yeah, it's it's interesting, you know. um I'd be curious about your perspective, too, you know, ah because Atlanta is is such a like such a hotbed for for music, especially. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we get all the concerts. Yeah.
00:16:05
Speaker
It's a recording here in Nashville. Like, people just come, so you get we get all the concerts, but... not's It's cool, man. you You get to meet people. even oh here's Here's a hot take or ah some advice for the for the audience.
00:16:17
Speaker
yeah One thing I realized doing music um and meeting people that are famous, semi-famous, the level you're standing at when you meet somebody, like that's the part of the first impression that sticks. so If you come up to somebody as a fan, like you're always a fan of them. You come somebody as a peer, you're a peer to them.
00:16:38
Speaker
If you come to somebody as a mentor, you're a mentor to them. and even like no matter which way the, the relationship flows, that's kind in the back of your head and their head. And it kind of sours. And that's another reason why just don't like to fan out um at all. But yeah, it's, it's,
Self-Presentation and Perception
00:16:54
Speaker
it's cool. Just, ah just approaching somebody.
00:16:56
Speaker
My favorite thing was sitting in the green room, like, you know, open for somebody long after, you know, and i'm not supposed to be in there anymore. The the headliners, you know, I like clear the room, but always just go back like, oh, let me go get my hat or whatever. And just, hey, how's it going? Like, oh, the stage is pretty good. Crowd's pretty.
00:17:11
Speaker
And you were just talking like mano a mano. And, you know, they see her around there. It's like, oh, you know, they like wave and everybody just like, yeah know you know, Skrillex? I'm like, i mean, you know, we ah hely you we shared a stage like, you know, whatever. but But if I was in there like, oh, can we get a pick? Can we get a sell? You know, yeah everything changes after that. So.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah, man. First impressions. Man. Oh, my God. you're you're i always ah what You're giving me one of those moments I always describe on the show. always call them spiderweb moments because it makes my brain go into, like, six different directions, but I have to decide one sentence, you know? right you know But it really, you know, it's this you're you're touching on this idea of, like...
00:17:56
Speaker
How you show up in the world affects how people see you and how people show up in the world affects how you see yourself. You know, it like it's this it's again, it's this it's this cyclical thing. And and um it's something I've really discovered through the years of doing the show is that it's like these questions of, you know, and we're going to get to them eventually.
00:18:14
Speaker
But these questions of how we show up in the community, how we show up for friends, how we do for others really actually originates in how do we do that for ourselves first? You know, how do we tend to our needs? How do we tend to ou ourselves and how do we hold ourself up so that we can present, you know, whatever version we want to, right?
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah And I guess I'm curious how how, you know, building off that idea, how do you find yourself?
00:18:42
Speaker
How do I even put it? How do you how do you find yourself building yourself up to be able to hold yourself in those kinds of spaces and to be able to show up that?
00:18:53
Speaker
Ooh. Do you know what mean? Yeah, yeah. It's something wrestle with. um I guess being a man of faith, it's depending on certain – it's like say you're getting in an argument.
00:19:10
Speaker
Or no, say you're in a fight. Yeah. And you're getting in a fight because someone did somebody wrong and you're defending them. Like you come in with – like you're the good guy, right? Yeah.
00:19:23
Speaker
And then they're the ah antagonist. And so whatever, whatever thing in my brain puts me in that mood sometimes where I'm like, Hey, I'm, I'm the good guy here solving a problem and gets me a little prideful. And then there's other times where we're like, I'm, I'm working for my buddy. Um, he owns ice cream company and and we're we're at a mixer.
00:19:46
Speaker
He literally brought me on because networking and so is is a superpower of mine. yeah So he needs he's a data guy. He needs somebody. And I'm talking to these people, but my my ah true intent is just to like hook them and get him some clients. So, you know, yeah yeah not necessarily an antagonist, but like, but yeah, like, so then i'm like oh, I'm here to help him, but also here to not manipulate, but it's been, it's been a web, get them interested in his product and you're, you're only wanting, you know? yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's all like a mental thing beforehand and kind of checking, checking myself to see how I'm approaching.
00:20:22
Speaker
But the the struggle now is like, Hey, like I get, I just need to come people like
Authenticity and Relationships
00:20:27
Speaker
honest, open and blank. And it's, it's been paying like dividends. Like you, like, cause you can sustain a a fake relationship, like a, or a work relationship or an acquaintance. But, ah You connect with somebody like for real, you're really interested in what they have to say. They're really interested in what you're doing. It's, it's just smooth, man. You just can to vibe and and call them later or ask for a favor and it's all good. But I find when I come with some all alternative intentions, it's, uh, you know, it dies on the vine like that. That night's the last night I'm going to see or talk to them. That's why i reached out to you immediately. I was like, i was like, James is cool, man. Like, yeah.
00:21:05
Speaker
right Right? Yeah, yeah well and you know yeah. I feel like you're speaking to... I think the way I would almost say it is this idea of like showing up with authenticity. right you know because yeah like I feel like... um you know it's something i ah so i My day job, I teach... Part of my job is career prep for my students. so so it's like Things like you know resume and cover letter, but it's also interview prep. It's this idea of, like yeah, you can lie on your resume to get in the room.
00:21:30
Speaker
That's fine. ah like I don't give a shit. But the reality is if you have to lie to get yourself in the room, you're going to hate that job no matter yeah no matter what it is because you're never going to be able to show up as yourself. you know And so you've got ah you've got to just get into the spaces where you can be as authentically yourself as possible because if people respond to that, that's the best sign.
00:21:51
Speaker
you know And yeah don't if they don't, that's no fault of either of yours. It just means those authenticities don't click. And that doesn't mean either of you are bad people. just doesn't work. right um But if you can be who you are and that meshes like that's the sweet spot right how how many students do you run to that don't know who they are all of them uh i think i think that that the simpler number would be how many don't you know right but gotcha gotcha yeah yeah but uh or or i should say how many do uh yeah no it's um
00:22:26
Speaker
but it's like it's tough it's really tough and i think yeah i think it's something i'm seeing you know i'm i'm starting to creep into this is baby this has been a reoccurring joke over the last couple interviews that like i'm not old but i don't decrease into that era of my life where i'm almost you know what are these kids do it on my lawn yeah yeah right you know and and and i am seeing these generational shifts where it's like the the idea of sort of like um the idea of
00:22:58
Speaker
speaking honestly online is very different from speaking honestly in person yeah yeah it's way more intimidating for them and and that's no fault of theirs i think that's ah that's a we trained them poorly you know i think that's a societal failing we failed them not they they're fail ah you know um um and i don't do we do that as well ah of course but yeah yeah they're they're just they're just doing the people they'll they'll never ever see and it feels a little safer but it's it's that ah but sharing with ah with a stranger on on a park bench versus yeah
Community and Personal Growth
00:23:30
Speaker
confess into your your sister your brother later just things that no that's it right there that's exactly yeah you know it's just different tools right you know yeah um really actually you know what i feel like so we're dancing around a few different kind of like pockets but they're all linked to this to this one of these anchor question words that i'm always scratching at it's this word of community right and like you know and and ah you know as i'm always talking about on the show it's that it's one of those words that we hear all the time use all the time but can
00:24:00
Speaker
b so widely defined you know um it can mean so many different things to so many different people and and um i'm so fascinated by the personal experience that each person brings with that word and and so i'm really curious for you what does community represent and and how do you find yourself um kind of nourishing the communities you want be a part of community is ah is a good ct
00:24:29
Speaker
the the central leader you know we've agreed to a set of standards yeah ah o i like that one yeah yeah i think that'd be my podcast a the good cult you know but um but yeah it's it's it's something necessary that a lot of people lack and you can tell when they lack it yeah it's very very apparent you know that they're in an echo chamber of whatever sort and um no introspection like you said you're really i like it's hard to do that by yourself like
00:25:01
Speaker
i don't know if it's even possible to do it by yourself it's yeah its your community that like sharpens you and critiques you and makes you better for for yourself and for them so it's it's just one of those necessities that unfortunately ah one of the things of all the online access we have you can you can go a long time without it and and think you're okay and then you know you find problems elsewhere pretty pretty quickly when the when the world is knocking at the door yeah whoa you know
00:25:32
Speaker
you just scratches something that i find so fascinating again it's another one of those like it's almost like reverse psychology things of like to learn about yourself around right you know like yeah you kind of can't like it feels like you have to go into seclusion and you have to like you know climb a mountain and take a vow of silence and just look at yourself for a while but like and like those things will help but like they're not like they don't actually teach you how to tolerate just come right because when you're alone you're safe you have no one triggering you you have no one
00:26:04
Speaker
pushing against you you're you're in a complete soft bubble um yeah and yet you're also deeply unsafe because to be alone is counter to what like we as humans are supposed be right yeah yeah um and i i just really love the reminder of like to learn about yourself you have to be around people and you kind of in a way have to be around people who don't totally agree with you either right yeah um oh yeah hass got that ah i feel like that's another i'm i'm curious about your you know not not to put too much of a stereotype on it but i'm i'm i'm curious about your american perspective on that you know
Cultural and Personal Reflections
00:26:41
Speaker
its i don't know how different it is from yalls it's a yeah fair we but we we probably aired out a little more say that but ah i agree yeah
00:26:54
Speaker
yeah
00:26:57
Speaker
that's i yeah actually i'm but endlessly fascinated because you know there's there's um i was just talking about this the other day ah about how like you know there's the stereotype of like canadians are so nice and it's like no no no canadians are dicks canadians are just actually like just passivegg aggressivess and they just don't talk about anything actually one of the things i love about americans is that they'll just say it you know though yeah yeah like you know and i really appreciate depending where you're at some'm down the south so ah it's it's something similar to to that it's very pass even with them
00:27:30
Speaker
if if if you can't tell it cause you just listen i'm an african-american male but um you know what like to take a little brought to asstardly like racism like yeah it's so covert some places and it's almost worse like then the person that flat out just like why are you walking in my store you know i'm like oh okay that's now i know where i'm at but then there's some places like yeah you've been around these people for x amount time you competing for some
00:28:01
Speaker
personal' happened to me like and then you you win and then they're just like actually you know you can't actually win this is like you know all these little i'm like oh okay i see what's going on didn't know if tom was younger but then you're just like oh let's see how it is here's a one instance ah brought up at work a couple years back cause they were trying to go they werere doing them one of the these assessments to see like how best to reward employees and i had a zero for like um
00:28:30
Speaker
public displays of recognition words of affirmation whatever the the topic was and they were like oh that's weird you know just like why is that weird and' like well you're the only um'm saying you weird but you're the only one that said like that has no bearings on you and yeah i remembered back to a time is when we're somewhere and georgia and ah in grovetown elementary school yeah and my mom's just adam and she's one of those people like education education education fuck yeah so we would read like all the time and i don't know if you'll have it up there and canna we had this thing called accelerated reader yeah oh yeah well i mean something like it yeah yeah yeah so so we had that youd read the book take the test so
00:29:06
Speaker
my older sister is two years older than me my younger sisters one year younger than me so the three of us for our grades we all got the highest score but yeah for and you know we're we're a minority at this school we never were're a military family never at school and base we always go on the whatever nice school is is next to it and um there you be typically as you go on stage you accept the reward blah blah blah award and then you do yeah get a pizza party for your class yeah so we got the pizza parties for our class but this particular year for whatever reason there was no public recognition
00:29:41
Speaker
and um one of the african-american lady as well she she came like it was kind of level of cut i thought i knew there was something up yeah and she's like like she goes well what would it look like you know like there's there's like you like five percent of the population here like what does it look like if three of you three black people like won all the awards and was just like i was like what you know and then i'll just like ah and i'm i'm ah i'm a pragmag expert so i was just like
00:30:12
Speaker
yeah that is fucked up but i'm like i get it at the same time like like i understand like but still you know yeah and so that like things like that kind of have swirled in my head since elementary school so so it's like oh i don't really appreciate words of affirmation on this point you know maybe i should maybe i'm better off or not but i we're winded back to the point like oh that's that's where it really didn't matter anymore you know like um i know what i know what i accomplished um and that's
Actions vs. Words in Communication
00:30:43
Speaker
that's satisfactory to me and people are gonna act how people are gonna act and it's it's it's so interesting though to think about like cause like linking it right straight to the idea of like the words versus the actions right like it it's it's sounding to me like it's like you know you kind of got a real hard lesson in don't listen to what somebody says listen to like watch what they do yeah um and and right now ah this is like a very very fresh thing for me i'm i'm realizing that i personally like i've i've been locked into that mode
00:31:15
Speaker
most of my life too i've been very hypervigilant of what how people act and i'm starting to realize i actually do need more verbal affirmation even even if it's just communication but i'd yeah i'd love some validation for sure but like you know but but i've been in such a mode just watch rather than listen you know yeah um that it's like it's very hard to trust what anybody said but any for sure yeah for sure and and i'm curious like you know you're saying like you don't really feel like you need to break out of that but but um
00:31:46
Speaker
i think on the flip side i'm curious about like how how would you go about kind of like i don't know opening yourself up to that element because it's such it's still such big part of communication right yeah right whether it's clumsy or not it's um
00:32:05
Speaker
i just don't ah don't receive it how someone who's going out of their way to do it would want me to is is what it equates yeah and i'm and i'm aware of that yeah being yeah being married to ah teach teach you some things about yourself you you may not have wanted to know so like somebody comes to me and they're and they're overjoyed you know they want to like express it and just i'm i'm i'm a good faker um i'm like oh my god thank you so much you know but it's just like okay like
00:32:36
Speaker
sure i don't i don't feel it um but but i receive it um for for your sake and that that part i feel like is you know maybe a little problematic sorry you know and maybe a psychiatrist would say but it's just like i don't know if i'm qualified for that one you know but it's just like oh it's it's working for now i now listen to my wife you know when she says um and then i got i got two old daughters in there um made every every little thing they do just like melts me so yeah
00:33:08
Speaker
but maybe maybe they're the antidote they're a yeah or melting melting my eyes heart or whatever it is but yeah well but yeah it's it's like this slow process yeah yeah that's an interesting so you know i'm i'm i'm divorced but i but i you know no kids but i'm really curious about the the shift that that happens you know both but brother and sister both ah have have young kids and and seeing you know um even just from kind of like like the the uncle like seeing who they were before and who they are after kids and and seeing
Parenthood and Love Expression
00:33:39
Speaker
what kind of love they give their kids and and seeing how often i don't even know if it's always conscious it like sometimes it's they they give the kind of love that having been kids with them i know we didn't necessarily receive you know um and and i'm curious if you are are conscious of that that sort of gift or or if it's yeah or if it's intentional it's a you't you know mean it's you can't control it
00:34:11
Speaker
yes it's just like and it makes you wonder like all the people that abuse their kids and all those like negative i'm like how like obviously you know somebody did to them but yeah um i just i don't know like even the the daughter whacked the ah the four yearyearold whacked the tv with a broom um like the day before the super bowl we were we weren't even gonna watch it but i remember because the super bowl is the next day like even if i wanted to watch it i can't now but like my wife was mad
00:34:43
Speaker
um and called me she goes yeah you deal with this i wasn't home i was on my way back and like anybody else like furious you know and i get back and i'm just like what you do you know and she's lying and telling me like oh i don't know you and um and then five minutes later like and disciplin or get real spanking or whatever and ah and um she's like dad you can fix it you you just fix larry and i'm just like oh man like she thinks i can fix that like oh look at that she thinks i'm
00:35:16
Speaker
think i'm capable of ah fixing the shattered tv and and immediately i'm like no longer like mad or anything and yeah don't even want to punish her at that point but i'm like i yeah you know got a grounder whatever not let her watch bluy or whatever on tv for a couple weeks but um but yeah you can't help it's just it's yeah i can't help it it's just it's all love yeah yeah
00:35:46
Speaker
um so you're a comedian amongst many other things that's one of the things but well all let's do that let me hear your rap sheet what a who who's jay what does ja spend his waking hours doing yeah yeah um okay let's see you how can i how can i'm going to try and not you know match the energy of yours and just authentically give me at least seven i can i can tell him your energy you you do a lot of things give me at least like okay okay five or seven things so so like don't be modest okay so like podcasts are obviously ah poet writer
Artistic Life and Creativity
00:36:21
Speaker
ah ah reformed theater kid um but i'm trying to break back into that i'm i'm thinking about getting back into i was originally an actor thinking about getting back more into the like the the screenwriter playwriter mode um yeah last year i broke i started ah practicing standup for the first time and ah been very very gradually dipping my toes into that stuff um um the sort of like the like what pays my bills and makes sure i have a a home for myself is i'm ah i'm a digital instructor
00:36:53
Speaker
by day um so i basically will teach like career prep and um like project management skills to to recent tech grads so i basically teach but joke is it's a really corny dad joke you'll love it i teach students who know how to talk to computers how to talk to other humans i' like you right you don't like it yeah so that's those those are the big ten and and then and then kind of like whatever my like a d hyper fixxation of the week is you know right i yeah last week it was
00:37:27
Speaker
collages this week and scenes so we'll we'll see what it is next week you know
00:37:33
Speaker
ah dig it and dig it yeah yeah and it's you know it's ah it is very much that thing of like i i um are you familiar with david lynch are you familiar with like like his movies and stuff ah know the name what's what's a name one of the so his his big his big one was with the tv show twin peaks um okay yeah yeah yeah yeah so so years ago i did his like his master class you know and and he he talked about the the art life and he was like when you when you live the art life
00:38:05
Speaker
it's not about i'm just this ah it's that i mean artist you know and so when you open yourself up to that and you have these experiences what you what you try to do is you allow them tell you where the impulse wants to go um so like he was like he did all kinds of stuff he was most known as a director but he was also a painter a musician you know all kinds of things and and so he talked a lot about like when you get an idea don't tell it what it's going to be let it tell you what it's what it wants and
00:38:36
Speaker
follow that impulse you know and so it's like if it wants to be a song make a song if it wants to be a painting make it a painting don't force it something right um so that that really opened me up to being like you know for years i was just i was just ah ah writer that was it and now it's more like yeah i just tried to open myself up and follow the idea and see see what garbage follows you know
00:38:59
Speaker
no love that that's what it is too because so when i did music and did videography because i was like ok like hear what i want you to hear but i need just see what i'm trying to see and i want you understand and i'm trying so it's like this whole ah but that's the artist like and somebody express and especially with comedy like you know people just get into that like you don't know this person i mean well maybe you've seen like stuff from them but then at some point you're like your humors match whether whether you have the same humor or not
00:39:30
Speaker
and they're just talking and you're like yeah like subconsciously agreeing with what they're saying yeah looking at everything through theirs perspective but that's that's the art but art that i love you know where you we can like when you leave a movie theater and you're just like oh it's daytime like but right the scenes were dark you know the the movie of the movie was dark and yeah i just love that like brand people like all the way into yeah youre your sphere it's like the flow it's like when you when when you really when you
00:40:03
Speaker
when you catch an artist who's genuinely working in in like a flow state and you yeah yeah come along with them that's the yeah that's magic right like i notch my my my you know i don't see a lot of movies in theater i watch a lot of movies but i don't see a lot in theaters um but i i saw dune you know du two last year and i remember coming out of the theaters i'd seen it in imac and it was like it was really disorient and come out because i was like yeah oh i was just on a rackus for three hours you know but exactly the fuck am i now right you know that's
Faith and Perspective
00:40:33
Speaker
so
00:40:33
Speaker
with kids makes it hard so dune two was actually the last movie i watched in theaters um cause i was like i was like i have to watch this in theater this is like an epic movie yeah yeah but it's ah yeah
00:40:48
Speaker
that actually you know okay the way you're tapping into the ideas of family and and um you know and some of the other things i'm gonna just kind of like shoehorn one of my ten pos questions right here because it might be kind of clumsy but i'm just gonna i'm just go raven it right here um you know we're talking about a lot of joyful things and a lot of fun things and ah you know and and and i think we'll probably swi back to a lot of them too but but you know as we've also alluded to like there's a lot of darkness in the world
00:41:19
Speaker
you know there's lot yeah tough shit going on and um finding that balance can sometimes be really difficult and um and and um curious for you you know ah something where i come from with this is that it's like it's really important for me to be in informed it's really important for me to be aware and it's also really important for me to still take care of myself first right it's the idea of like you got to put your own air masks on first before you help hours right and so it's just as important for me to like find joy every day and to find relaxation every day and all those kinds of things
00:41:53
Speaker
and so i'm really curious for you um what is something that is giving you hope these days for sort of like what's what's keeping you going yeah know it's it's been my faith for yeah for as long as i can remember because and just like even like like stuff like trump being president like um i'm the kind of person i look at something and i and i ah run it like i'm an experiment like a hundred times over and to the extremes like where is this goingnna end up later
00:42:24
Speaker
and the one thing even as a kid i can never come to grips with was like why do you like bad people get good things good people get bad things and i wrestled with this and faith was the solution to that and through that like kind of through my belief system like joy is what i start with like there are things that make me happy or sad but always like wake up and am joyous to to be alive to um thanks to my
00:42:54
Speaker
died for me and that's why why i'm here and and i'm and i'm well polished these days but i was i should be dead like i used to do the stupidest things like all the time like so some to make people laugh some to see that if i would survive and some just cause wednesday said five p m or boring you know so we got spice it up but um yeah yeah yeah i'm on borrowed time and and speaking of like the the the dark and the bat like i i mean i'm good at a lot of things but i'm an expert in in de
00:43:26
Speaker
unfortunately just two large families mom and dad' side and i've just seen a lot of people go um made bitter maybe dark um maybe not appreciate people um when i was younger but you know through through my faith journey now i'm like ah take ah take opportunities like like ah you pop in my head tomorrow i'm a text you like yeah du what's up you know like yeah um lost lost both my parents um pretty close with each other like five years back and yeah that
00:43:59
Speaker
i'm not dead so ah again the greatest gift ah ever i got life so so let's let's do it you know let's let's have a good day let's let's meet some new people let's ah kiss my wife and ah my daughter send him off to school and be happy when they get back and' not always joyous um but ah i'm not being joyousome usually pretty pre chill keep keeping it keeping it chill but getting negative and all that like yeah we can we can rant about the boss making a stupid decision or making his work over time or whatever but
00:44:30
Speaker
other than now i'm just like man this stays good day you know yeah you know i find so i wasn'tla raised with any religion but i do find myself personally still within like a spiritual context you know and and i often find myself really um you know i don't find myself dismissive of religion in any way um and i and i i actually times feel type of envy um um you were talking earlier about the idea of like you kind of lean into your faith to be able to show up for things
Spirituality and Personal Growth
00:45:02
Speaker
and i've read many many times that like so many artists are deeply spiritual or or religious of some kind because yeah it's a way for them to sort of give up their ego and be like no there's something else kind of guiding me and helping me you know yeah and and and i've just never really been able to find myself i've just never been able to fully lean into anything i've always i'm i'm i'm fully comfortable being like there's something beyond me yeah yeah i just i can't bring myself to think that gives to big of a shit about me you know for lack of a better way of putting it i feel a man i feel yeah
00:45:37
Speaker
it's um i mean take it there because its cause i feel like i should like it's it's like with anything like like you're trying like stand up they try like don't believe whatever pray before you start doing like like hey god like help me out with this thing just yeah just that like just test them like yeah he he just shows up it's it's weird like man i was talking to about my buddy today he moved up to nashville um and this dude i love love to death um
00:46:09
Speaker
and tell him so and he he couldn't respond he he would not say it you'd like okay you know you hop off the phone or or walk out the door you know i don't mean to cut you out up but i want to say like thank you because more more men need say i love you right like we just we yeah with it that is a it' a it is an epidemic we need to tell each other we love each other boy anyway i'm sorry please go out with the story now no for sure like thanks for that psa people need to hear that man like if you lost some money just tell them like yeah what what bad's gonna happen from that you know that's exactly it right exactly
00:46:41
Speaker
yeah but um yeah he he just wrestled with it and it was ah i remember i was about to say but um but yeah he he just he questions everything in and it's in like i was the same way like and it's funny and i love talking to him because they're the very same questions that i used to have and i just got to the point like through through the death and like dealing that like i can't help myself like there's nothing that i can do and i'm talking to people and i don't had my own like
00:47:13
Speaker
era of cancel code culture you know like like somebody tells me that oh you ende homework and i'm like yeah but you forgot your book you know like it like any any flaw i'm like you're cancelled canceled canceled and um and so i was like all right let's challenge god next you know you let it like all my family members pass away and like i was just angry and then i just started to challenge him fortunately i did i did grow up in the church so that was where everybody else was not
00:47:44
Speaker
not the answer i was like all well let's challenge god then yeah um and i just kept praying they kept likeke reading and i and i got to this foundation and and it wasn't like the end of the journey or i't a ride or anything but i just got to this point where like okay like nothing bad has happened things are i'm feeling better like i'm not giving god the credit but i'm i'm good now so whatever and um yeah keep ah ah kind of go back to that when things get get tough oh
00:48:16
Speaker
i mean i walk in it but like like it with anybody like everything's not all peachy life is life so so when when it gets super hard that's when i like go back to that thing that worked the hundred times before and it hasn't let me down so yeah to until something be not that i'm searching but unless something better comes along like ah who i am i love it and i think you know and that's the thing is that i think i think like i think that's beautiful and i think that's i think that's wonderful you know and i'm i'm so
00:48:49
Speaker
i feel so don't know what the right word for it is because you know it's like it's like i'm just i'm so glad you have that and i'm so glad you have that like thing to to help you right and yeah and it's not like ah it's not an envy it's not like ah and i don't have that it's a um it's a it's more of like ah i actually find that very and inspirational of like there's you know i think for me personally and i think for a lot of people that i know like there is a there's a skepticism that then stops us from just like trying stuff
00:49:21
Speaker
you know and it's like i think i think there's so much interwoven with like the but different sort of like ah <unk>cations of religion and the different yeah and the different right you know and it's like yeah but it doesn't have to be that complex it can just b you and whatever you want to call a higher power right yeah you know and i think it's the same practice and and and i think that's the other piece of it too for me personally is that it's like you know if there is something that big beyond us like can't see them
00:49:53
Speaker
really getting too bent out of shape about like you know using the wrong word or the right word you know to be yeah yeah yeah right you know i i have have this saying that i tell myself and then i tell her people when we get in um
00:50:08
Speaker
yeah so ah i write it out cause it looks very but it's if god is thenn god is and god is so god is which which sounds like mumbo jumbo but then you break it down is like so if god exists then he know then he exists yeah and if he does exist then then he exists you know it's like it's like just like it doesn't mean anything we just like hear it but then ah break it down to somebody and they're like all right fun and that's what i was like
00:50:39
Speaker
like i like i told you like hey like just pray see what happens like just try it like yeah like like like you try ah new restaurant just keep keep trying let me let me know how it goes for you i was go to say like honestly like not that i'm in like some dire straits but i'm like honestly like i don't i don't have a reason why not to you know to be right right right like it's like and and also like what's the harm you know because the other whether it is ah you know a divide bean or whether it's just like me tricking myself into more confident
00:51:11
Speaker
at the end of the day does that actually end up mattering you know like and for me that's that's what it is for me sometimes too like i'm just like i i just need to say what i'm feeling out loud um right and i sometimes i say amen at the end you know but exactly but but we're all i mean we're all humans like i dont i don't have superpowers um and i don't um not good all the time but sometimes i'm doing better and it's more often than that and and think that's the reason so i keep it up
Origin of the Friendless Podcast
00:51:48
Speaker
why ah why friendless what what a how does the title come about so that's that's ah yeah you know so the joke of it was so the original gimmick was um and i wasn't going to put you through this this this part of it because it the gimmick has long died but when the show originally started what i was doing was i was calling everybody out from my facebook friendless and we would talk about this kind of stuff we'd talk about friendship our friendship these kinds of things and at the end of the interview we would unfriend from facebook and we would decide like how
00:52:19
Speaker
or if we would stay in touch afterwards you know yeah it it was all with the intention of just getting off facebook because i hate that website so much you know so so sort of the gimicck of that right yeah um but then over the years it devolved into you know i started getting people on the show who weren't on facebook or weren't on my facebook or whatever and so ah developed more into just and <unk> of friendship and connection and and and it's stuck with the name because you know i've i've realized that you know as we talked about earlier like there's so many more
00:52:51
Speaker
similar experiences than dissimilar to most people and and one of the real common experiences right now is people feeling like they're friendless feeling like they're disconnected and isolated when really there are whole worlds of people just like waiting for them to show you know yeah um so it yeah it's it's a bit of a yeah it's a bit of a misnoer because it's now an exploration of how to how to be a friend and and kind of fight that feeling of friendlessness you know okay yes yeah um and then other question um
00:53:24
Speaker
and it's like one of those topics that came up me and the wife we're talking about now i just ask people love it and so you'll be like the fifth person i asked but excellent are you as popular as you'll ever be in high school
00:53:39
Speaker
i love it oh yeah so am i am i as popular now as i was in high school or or like is that we meet it like like like do we do we all peak in high school oh i sure hope not man i sure hope not you know because i was i look i was a theater do right you know so yeah like i sure hope theater ah high school wasn't my peak you know
00:54:07
Speaker
i got to say i've i've i've talked about this type of thing recently with some friends and and i personally came to the conclusion of like i kind of worry about people who peak in high school you know because it's yeah like it's it's kind of like to me it's the same as saying like you know my wedding day was the best day of my life you know yeah like it's like no no no that's start of your life you know yeah yeah you know like like a wedding obviously you want it to be a great fun beautiful day but that's the big you know like like you don't want that to be the peak because then you got sixty years with this person who
00:54:39
Speaker
are you now slowly hating like what's you yeah right you know so same thing with high school it's like i don't want to peek seventeen are you kidding me you know so yeah i sure so here's the argument here's the argument as you get older for whatever reason like the connections like people don't actually know you yes so like like you think you like go the rock we'll take the rock you know like millions of followers fans all that but like
00:55:11
Speaker
yeah he's got it he's got to keep a tight circle for like actual like interactions and yeah so like the circle has to shrink for for protection you know yeah yeah but there's always people so i'm just like um don't know but it's something i've been like just like oh let me think about you know that's you know that's actually a really i like that angle on it too because it actually does circle to something i've i've been talking a lot about on the show this idea of like over the last like two years especially um i've actually made a real real like mindful point to keep my my like
00:55:43
Speaker
real tight connections really small like like my my circle of friends is real small in terms of like who do i let into everything who do i always go to you know um and that doesn't up especially recently it's caused a lot of issues for me because it's like i felt like i've i've ah i've let a lot of really important connections kind of suffer for that yeah yeah right you know um
00:56:14
Speaker
cause yeah in you know in high school early university like it was easy you know like it was easy to have lots of friends it was easy to have a bit even even a theater do had a big network i had the whole theater department you know yeah you know right you know so it's like you're always you know when you're in school it's one of the
Friendship Through Vulnerability
00:56:31
Speaker
cheat codes you don't realize is so helpful but it's like you at least all are there for something right yeah you know right same thing like you know i went to theater school at university and so it's like whether we had anything else in common we were we knew we were there we were <unk> paying an ungodly amount of money
00:56:45
Speaker
for one thing you right you ah so at least we could rely on that you know for a conversation right and and you get out in the world and it's like the closes ah parallel to that is like your job and that yeah that that sucks you know like yeah i don't want to i don't want to talk about my job with ian spen so much time there that's the worst part i'm like ah right right and it's like it's the last thing i want to talk about outside of work you know so yeah it's you know so it does become a you're not yeah''ll i'll say you're not off on the on the on the analysis but yeah it's a conversation for sure hey time big time yeah but it is ooh
00:57:23
Speaker
i just yeah like i say i just i gotta to believe i got cooler after high school you know right and so maybe it's like it's like ah what what do you define as peak do you define peak as like most sort of knowing yourself or biggest ah social network you know the most people that knew you the most and you knew them the most gotcha yeah yeah that's okay that's it it see that throws a wrinkling yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
00:57:56
Speaker
because i mean i remember back then like taught like people just say hey like i was pretty popular um partially cause a standout like it predominantly white school and partially because i don't know let' started acting the wayt i was i was ah i was a funny guy um but ah yeah yeah i was i was just like cool person be around was i was a prankster and all that so but i was nice like one thing the the wifepe will not listen to she like i bet you bullied people i was like no i didn't like i was like people like me cause i was cause i was nice because you weren't nice i was like
00:58:28
Speaker
i was like whatever oh and i want to like get a time machine that that's where i'd get i'd get back to high school and like like but the wife walk around and she'd get i imagine you her a little dick head all the time i was like so super nice that that's a movie i'd watch yeah you know a man man invents sort of invents a time machine not to like solve world history problems but just to prove to his wife he was not high school right
00:58:54
Speaker
that's a good story yeah of you know that really does circle me to the the sort of the big the big question of the show and it's the thing i'm always integrity interrogating been doing this for almost eight years asking really you know as i said earlier you know it started with these questions of like have i been a good friend and how have i shown up as a friend and and to answer that i've then had to figure out what it even means to be a good or bad right you know um it's another one of those words like community that can mean
00:59:26
Speaker
anything and everything and um and so i ask you from your again from your personal experience and sort of how you show up what does it mean to be a friend
00:59:37
Speaker
um sharing um time words experiences and we talked about this ah last last week m l but i study group but there's vulnerability is ah is like the best like that's a shortcut to building any relationship yeah and there's two ways to do it there's two sides of the coin you can be vulnerable and share your personal experience things that have happened to you
01:00:09
Speaker
or you can gossip yeah and talk about somebody else's so that's like the the dark side which which i'm trying that's like my my latest thing pass i don't know how long but i'm like trying to be very conscious of that's what i'm praying about when i go pray like yeah yeah help me not to gossip because i know i know it's a cheat code like yeah cause we're sharing these deep things like let me like increase my vulnerability and boldness to share with people and then decrease my sharing ongasso yeah yeah other people's vulnerabilit like cause it's you know but
01:00:40
Speaker
that's not cool right yeah yeah exactly so but yeah that's that's the that's the the secret you know you can you can choose the light or the dark side on it but ah it's it's gonna work either way you go i love that i always think yeah you know um i but in in university i was really obsessed with saul williams um um who you know poet rapper incredible guy saul williams saul williams s a u l yeah yeah got look at yeah he's incredible incredible poet um um and he has he has
01:01:11
Speaker
you know it's an extended verse but but the punctuation of it is essentially he's saying like you know you could have all the guns and the bombs and the knives you want but at the end of the day vulnerability is the truest power you can have you know um to be genuinely vulnerable is to actually wield the real power of the world right and and yeah and yeah i've thought about that for twenty years you know is like i just keep being right you know and it's scary though fuck scary right yeah and those are your favorite people too you know the people are like i' just like oh that's what i like and seek out in people and feel
01:01:45
Speaker
comfortable around like then i could do that ah yeah and nice isn't that the way too it's like as soon as you as soon as people start showing themselves you want to show yourself more right yeah no and it's yeah yeah as you yeah oh man this has been such a fucking blast thank you so much i they like thank you yeah i've been looking forward to this family i'm excited yeah so say i yeah and you know yeah that that that that code names around so much fun like just what a blast and and yeah the moment you reached out right after i was like i've been yeah excited the whole time i just i was i
01:02:18
Speaker
kitty for this and and it and it it lived up to the expectations you know and appreciate me i'll do it well do it again then and and and when i if and when i start mine i'll have to have you one hundred percent yeah um um before we wrap up um ah where can listeners find you where would you where would you like to point point people to is zazu x two games and then all the social media stuff i think if you just type in zazu times too or that you'll you'll just find stuff i've done on the internet so
01:02:51
Speaker
right odd i'll make sure that's all of the show notes as well yeah yeah for sure appreciate um very last thing i would like to leave listeners on a little actionable step that they can try out so what do you think is one thing listeners could try doing this week to be a more effective friend to themselves or to their community um this will help you build a community all those people in your you have a ah bunch of contacts on your phone right now those are pages of a ah a notebook um
01:03:23
Speaker
next time you need to remind yourself do something don't don't put it in your notes put it text it to somebody but you haven't texted in a while like oh i got to pick up oranges today and ah yeah let let let the conversation roll you know it's it's a technique i use sometimes when i feel like im not connecting with enough people i use my but contact list as a as a notepad that is incredible you're like you're literally you've added new wrinkles to my brain like i feel like i've like what a fantastic way to like
01:03:55
Speaker
yeah remember something but also like connect to somebody you know and like it can be as simple as that candidate you know it's like am yeah yeah i've got to go get milk you want to come with me you know right like yeah man yeah that's ah that's how i hooked women back in the day i just theyre just they're just we would just hang out and we'd never stop you know they'd be like oh mean are you dating her i'm like no she just cool with doing the same things that i'm doing yeah like she needed milk too
01:04:25
Speaker
oh my god i love it that's a good one that's a really good one thank you for that i'm goingnna try that one for sure do it man yeah yeah change your life yeah yeah zazzy one more time thank you so much yeah this has been just such a pleasure like coolla thank you so much for having me i really appreciate it man it's been a great conversation you percent and now enjoy your games night you know we do
01:05:07
Speaker
and that's it thank you one more time to zazzu for joining me in sharing his incredible insights ah to be honest yeah his perspectives have had a genuine impact on me since we recorded this interview and i just really want to express how deeply grateful and how lucky i feel to have connected with him if you enjoyed this episode please do all the things that help keep independent podcasts alive subscribe wherever you get your podcasts leave a review if you're feeling generous and share the show with someone who might need a reminder that they're not as friendless as they might feel
01:05:39
Speaker
your support means the absolute world to me and helps more people cover these conversations which really is kind of what community is all about want to give you a follow over on instagram and tiktok at friendlesspod you have any questions any listener questions you want answered on an upcoming solo show please email me friendlesspod at gmail dot com and if you just can't get enough friendless if you want more content be sure to sign up for the monthly substack newsletter it's chock full of all kinds of goodies you're going to love it and it's free who's going to say no to free am i right
01:06:11
Speaker
yeah but that's go to do it for me so let's wrap things up here thank you so much for listening and i hope i'm going to catch you back here next week with a brand new episode but i'm not going to worry about that right now and neither should you why because that is then this is now so for now um just say i love you i wish you well fun and safety sweep piece