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SNW: "Those Old Scientists" (s2e7) with Katie Hampton from Napping Through Happy Hour
139 Plays5 months ago
COMPUTER, END PROGRAM? Boimler & Mariner board the Enterprise, only it's not the Enterprise they usually mean when they talk about "those old scientists." It's Pike's ship -- does that change the vibe? Does Strange New Worlds successfully pull off its latest "big swing," the TV crossover?
Katie Hampton from her Napping Through Happy Hour Podcast returns. The grades begin at (22:47).
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
This week on Trek Mary Kill, Boimler! Meritor! Crossover! Next! Number one to Enterprise. We might have a problem.
00:00:15
Speaker
Computer end program? Never mind. He's selfish and from the future. Let's go our friend home before the delta's a timeline. riker What are you doing? I feel like I'm trying to stop a toddler from knocking over the furniture.
00:00:31
Speaker
One time traveler is a security threat. Two is a disaster. I thought you said they were cool. They are? This is serious.
Meet the Hosts and Special Guest
00:00:49
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Katie. Welcome to Trek Mary Kill, the hottest Star Trek podcast in Starfleet history. Katie, welcome back. Thank you, Brian. It's Katie Hampton from the Napping Through Happy Hour podcast. And this is the episode you most wanted to discuss when I asked, hey, would you be interested in coming back on the show? And you were like, on one condition. I was like, I will do Lower Decks all day long, but there is one episode of a television show that is sneakily Lower Decks and is one of the best episodes ever. Yeah. I was like, Patrick Stewart said he wants to do those old scientists, but just a solo with me and him. But I told him I can't do it because I promised it to Katie. That's how much she wanted to do it.
00:01:37
Speaker
I'm so sorry, Trek Maricel fan. I took piece two out of the running. And he Sir Patrick said, I accept the rejection at Godspeed. And he's never heard from him since I broke the relationship between Brian and piece two. How the heck have you been, Katie? We've been having you on for the monthly animated spotlights, which kind of record out of order. I'm very excited about our episode today. um Things lately have been ah weirdly busy. um I've been unemployed, but as busy as you can get. um And then, you know, also looking for that solar eclipse that we had today, that partial eclipse. um That was really cool. um Mostly just was looking at the leaves to see the crescent moon shapes. Yes. so I was also avoiding looking at the sky for sure. Yeah. Yeah. yeah But it was cool. Yeah.
Episode Breakdown: 'Those Old Scientists'
00:02:31
Speaker
Those Old Scientists is the seventh episode of Strange New World's second season. It premiered on Paramount Plus July 22nd, 2023, written together by Catherine Lynn and Bill Wolkoff. Catherine is the show's canon consultant. And according to Memory Alpha, her favorite episodes of trek of Star Trek are The Next Generation's Frame of Mind and Voyager's Bride of Chaotica, a very um Unique blend. Very unique. An unusual combination. There we go. hu This is her third Trek script after Lower Decks episode, Wedge, Dudge. And she actually wrote the episode that precedes this one, Charades. So this is kind of like ah her her lane, kind of the comedic premise, I guess, right now.
00:03:18
Speaker
So that's according to memory alpha. So speaking of memory alpha, it describes this episode as an accident while investigating a time portal sends ensigns Beckett Mariner and Bradward Boimler through time from the 24th century. And Captain Pike and his crew must get back and get them back where they belong before they can alter the timeline. It's a classic crossover episode. It really is. Not one I was expecting until I heard the news before this and then was hawking the internet to find any more permission. You know, this is a part of Star Trek Strange New World's second season. Big swings. You know, they're taking the biggest swing Star Trek's ever done before, according to them. um I don't know. Star Trek has done crossovers. I am ah intentionally running this episode the week after Kristen and I recorded Deep Space Nine's crossover episode, Trials and Tribulations, to unfairly compare the two, perhaps.
00:04:13
Speaker
Perhaps we'll find out, we'll find
Star Trek Crossovers: A Unique Approach
00:04:15
Speaker
out. but this is a Unlike that one, and I would say even Voyager's crossover that they did where they inserted Janeway and Tuvok, not into pre-existing footage, but into Star Trek VI, some events around that, those were intentionally designed to be 30th anniversary celebrations of the Star Trek franchise. This is a much more classic, why do we do crossovers in the first place? I'll talk about that in just a second. I think you're you're nodding along so you know where I'm going with this. But Kay, do you remember the first time you saw this episode, you said you were scanning the internet for it like did it. How did you feel when he finally got to see this? Because you're a huge Lord X fan before.
00:04:53
Speaker
you know Huge, huge Lower Decks. And I love Street's New Worlds. I think it's a really fun show that they are taking some big swings on and I'm very happy to see it, especially in a live action capacity. um When this was coming out, I heard that they were going to do a Lower Decks crossover and I was so excited because I heard that they were also doing a musical and I was like, I'm not as interested as that. um But I was like, oh, but like everyone in the Lower Decks cast basically looks like their character, um you know, except I guess Eugene Cordiero doesn't have a cyborg thing, but you know, but me that we know of. I mean, you know, I really wish we could have gotten that. Anyway, um that's a point for later on. That'll be on the next time next crossover. episode
00:05:37
Speaker
I mean, hopefully, honestly. But ah when when the episode started airing, I got confused. I'm not going to lie. I was like, wait, is Lower Decks back? I was very confused because it starts with Lower Decks. And when it opened, I was so I was like, I didn't know that they were premiering Lower Decks yet. And my husband was like, Katie, no, this is the episode. was like the yep it's tonight. And I freaked out. I was so excited. I was watching every second with just pure joy. And it just, oh, you already know where I'm gonna go with this. But like, it's just my favorite episode of television. I think they did a phenomenal job.
00:06:15
Speaker
Well, so I, you're totally right. Like it starts, it's a, the wraparound is lower decks and they even animate the, well, the wraparound is animated. They even changed the opening to animated and slip in lower decks Easter eggs in there.
Star Trek Viewership and Audience Engagement
00:06:31
Speaker
So. The history of television, which, you know, you are an artist who lives free in the moment and looks ahead to the future. I'm the one stuck in the past. I'm the one who read TV Guide years and years ago. Traditionally, when there's a crossover, unless it's starting from like the show is launching from one show, typically when shows cross over, it's because one of them is in trouble.
00:06:53
Speaker
right In the it Star Trek fans, just just to be clear, in the history of television. Now, we're in the 21st century. We have streaming platforms. I think it's as simple as this. there is an article There was an article that came out in March. I'm pretty sure that a ah PR agency put it together at the behest of one of their clients, mayor whose name may or knight may not rhyme with anyway. ah called Does Star Trek still matter? And it was this huge article in Variety about the entire Star Trek franchise and everything Secret Hideout is doing to keep it going and what their plans are for the future. Contained within that is this nugget about the viewing habits of Star Trek viewers and on Paramount Plus specifically.
00:07:36
Speaker
And um this real quick quote, nearly one in five Paramount Plus subscribers in the US is watching at least one Star Trek series and more than 50% of fans watching one of the new Trek shows also watch at least two others. so Basically, Paramount Plus is the Star Trek channel, which means that 12-year-old Brian's dream came true, that there's a Star Trek channel. It's on every day, baby. Exactly. You go to a Pluto TV, there's now three Star Trek channels going on, and that's just as great. So there's a lot of Star Trek channels. So the the main thing also in the article is like we're trying to make Star Trek
00:08:13
Speaker
For future audiences, the Jonathan Rakes's quote is saying, it's kind of an old fan base, and which he's correct. I think Lower Decks and Prodigy are very specifically aimed at drawing in people under 40 years old into the franchise and as young as they can get. And so I think as much as this is an episode of Strange New Worlds, unlike the episodes of Voyager and Deep Space Nine, which were episodes of Voyager and Deep Space Nine in which they went back into the past This one, I think, was meant to draw like the Katie Hamptons of the world going, holy shit, is Lower Decks back? And then get them into Stranger Worlds, which is a successful show, but is skewing audience-wise towards the older fans. So I think they looked at it and they said, look, this is these are both our our two most popular shows, Peanut Butter and Jelly Them. Let's put them together and see what happens.
00:09:06
Speaker
But it is unusual in that it is kind of more of a Lower Decks episode in a lot of ways.
Crossover Episode: Blending Styles and Universes
00:09:13
Speaker
It is. And even though it is a live action episode in its whole, it has a lot of Lower Decks flair, which I find very fun. And I think some of my favorite lines, which we'll get to later, like even reference the fact that like everyone seems so real and everyone talks so much slower. yeah um I think they did a really great job of like two strong fandoms and then blending those two styles really well together.
00:09:43
Speaker
The one thing this episode does that i that on the rewatches, it that I was like, why do I have this pit in my stomach? and and india I think I know, but I do feel like I have an idea. but so When Strange New Worlds, this is a Strange New Worlds comment, when it was pitched because they could not come right out and say, we're rebooting Star Trek. you know Everyone hates William Shatner and Captain Kirk's a pig, so we're going to get rid of that. But everyone loves Spock in the Enterprise. That's not what they did. They said, we imagined what if instead of the Shatner Star Trek was the Star Trek that got greenlit by NBC, what if it was the Cage? So in a way, they have been playing this fence of like we are creating an alternate reality in our actual reality and saying this Star Trek and.
00:10:34
Speaker
Lower Decks is very specifically, unmistakably tied to the Shatner era of the Shatner version of Star Trek, because it's born on the backs of that and the next generation. And so Stranger Worlds, you'll notice, was not like built into any of the Lower Decks references, what they're honoring when they honor canon and all that stuff. It's all born of the Shatner TOS. This episode crosses the line. It goes into, it brings the the alternate reality canon that the secret hideout people have been pushing and it just mixes them together, it mashes them together. So I don't know how to film that.
00:11:15
Speaker
but It's just a very strange thing because Lower Decks was like almost religiously like this is one, like I recognize this is commenting on the Star Trek we grew up with. Mike McMahon, he grew up on the same Star Trek I did. And I can't, you cannot accuse me of being a crusty old man here for a couple of reasons. Everyone making these shows are older than me. So there's one thing. Number two, I know I sound old, but they're all older than me. Number two, they are playing in the same pool of references and cannon that I am that any of the nerds are who get upset about cannon Catherine Lynn the writer is a cannon cop. so is to just them i'm So what I'm saying is like lower decks was coasting on one lane and then because they've been asked by the corporation.
00:12:03
Speaker
to give some dap, to give some of their valor over to the news show. They've jumped lanes, they've crossed the line. So that was my feeling on that. That doesn't take away from Lower Decks, and it doesn't even take away from Streams 2 Worlds. It just made me very keenly aware of like this is a weird crossing of the streams, that the weirdness is not that they're doing a crossover at all. It's what universes are being crossed over. Which is so funny because I mean, ah you know, Captain Pike was like a brief mention. And yeah, I guess that it does create an alternate timeline. But I mean, there was a time that Pike and Spock were together and he served with him, right? Like,
00:12:45
Speaker
Bill, the showrunners said, what if instead of the Star Trek we got, the original pilot was the one that got picked up? And so imagine that the the Star Trek that was always popular was the one with Captain Pike. So that is a completely different reality that they're asking us to imagine and saying these are the adventures of that. They're basically doing the the Buzz Lightyear movies, like this is the movie that Andy watched that gave us the toy. But what this crossover is is Deadpool 3 where he's going across the Disney and the Fox Marvel properties. Which is honestly like I say props to Paramount for that because they they're doing something that Disney is yet to do. We'll see in Deadpool 3 whether or not they actually have like
00:13:27
Speaker
Deadpool kills the fox universe. Who knows? um Like, honestly, that's my hope of what they're going to do for it. We'll see. I don't know.
Impact and Recognition of the Crossover Episode
00:13:34
Speaker
But if they like the way they accomplished the pyramid, accomplished this crossover, I thought was really great with keeping intact, like full story arcs while infusing everything that makes each show kind of uniquely their own thing. the the run up to this episode was pure joy and excitement. And I was not naysaying it. I was just like, because I knew, you know what, that you know why? Because they double they dared you. They're like crossover and musical. And so I was like, why can't hate everything. and So I'm picking the crossover as the one I'm going to be optimistic about because I know the I know the musical is going to suck. By the way, listeners, we're doing the we're doing Subspace Rhapsody. And don't worry, I am not going to be it's not going to just be me and Kristen, I'm going to have more people on the panel than just me. So you already know that I'm say kill that episode and we'll leave it up to the panel. to just choose its fate, I was not going to get it. I'm not going to lie, if I was on that, I would kill an episode two. I'm talking on the other side of my mouth. and yes It was a fun, like, they're all very talented. Keep it in your, keep it in your talented pants. ah These are our general thoughts. This is the general thoughts segment. The general logic thoughts that we have about our sci-fi shows. And i I do get that. I feel like it almost creates its own, like,
00:15:00
Speaker
different universe in its own way that makes sense why they can go back and not ruin the future. Yes, but also at the same time, it feels like I'm in Event Horizon. A little bit. Then I'm going to start clawing my eyes out. Yeah. Oh, that's the pit in your stomach. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's it. I'm like, this feels, I'm feeling like Sam Neill right now. It's off. Something's wrong. Where is that photo of me and my sister? um um Okay, but all that said, this episode along along with the musical episode, they were both nominated for the 2024 Hugo Award in the Best Dramatic Presentation Short Form category. And they're both up against a couple of Doctor Who episodes, the series finale of Loki, and then the ah episode The Last of Us Long, Long Time with the
00:15:50
Speaker
Ron Swanson. Why am I b blanking on his name? Nick Offerman. Nick Offerman, yes. So ah can you find love at the end of the apoca or you know at the end of the apocalypse, at the end of the world? um Loki, can you find purpose at the end of the world? I don't know what Doctor Who's about. Can you be silly at the end of the world? and And then you've got two, I feel like you've got two shows with two nominees each. They're going to split each other's votes. And the last of this episode has been winning every award, so that will probably win. and That's what I was expecting, yeah. The Hugo Award, I mean, it's a prestigious award. It's been around for 52 years, I think, or something. And the Star Trek's been nominated before. As a scientific as a science fiction presentation, none of those none of these episodes really strike me. They don't really jump out to me as like science fiction concepts. We're not lit we're not excited about
00:16:40
Speaker
lowered X in Stranger Worlds crossing over because of the science involved. Yeah, there's a little woo-woo science just going to the portal and being back in time. And subspace Rhapsody. Oh, no. Let's not not't even worry about that one. All that said, you know, congratulations. Everyone loved this episode. There's no question about it. So is it a trek, marry or kill? That's what we're going to get down to the bottom of. But, Katie, I got i gotta to be honest, your tone is already conveying your vote. and Oh, yeah. No, I'm being very clear. If there's one thing I cannot hide is like how I feel about something.
00:17:18
Speaker
um And I was more than happy to have you back to discuss this episode and I was more than happy to rewatch this episode because the first time I saw it I actually was again I watch these all when they right when they come out this one kept me awake the whole time and I was you know enjoying all the little things they did and I love Tawny Newsom so much so and that this episode actually I was like wow I really really actually do like Jack Quaid quite a lot so Really? Oh, that's- I was never against him. I was just like, Tawny knew some I love so much and, you know, the hometown vibes, the home court advantage she held. but I don't know what it is, but like I've talked to many men who like,
00:17:55
Speaker
can't, for some reason, understand why, but can't stand Jack Quaid. I never disliked him. No, and then I'm not saying that you that's what you're saying. I'm just saying that like there's so many people that I've talked to, you especially about ah Lower Decks and whatnot, but like they just they can't bring themselves to watch it because of Jack Quaid. Why? There's always like so many like different reasons and responses. and like Some people, they're like, oh, he's a nepo baby. I'm like, I don't feel like he is, honestly. um I just don't watch the boys because I'm tired of superhero stuff. Yeah, I'm not really into it. And I'm not sure, but like it feels kind of like that stuff's dying down. We'll find out in the next couple of years. I know, I know. But you know what stays strong is Star Trek. That's right. A couple of other notes from Memory
Character Moments and Improvisation
00:18:44
Speaker
Alpha. This is the first Star Trek episode to open with a log entry from the perspective of a main character in a different series.
00:18:51
Speaker
It starts as a lower DEX. It's a strange new world. We already mentioned that. This is the second Star Trek episode to feature 24th century Starfleet officers traveling back in time to the original USS Enterprise, the first being DS9's Tribble with Tribbles, like I already mentioned. um Mariner comments that Young Spock is much more attractive in person, similar to Jed Zia DEX's observations of Prime Spock, Leonard Nimoy Spock, in ah Trials and Tribulations. That was a nice happy accident there, or homage, I guess. ah Captain Pike's birthday is a Starfleet holiday. Question. Does Captain Kirk and or Spock have a special holiday in the Federation or Starfleet? Oh, I don't know. That's not like a pop quiz. I'm just asking if you were to imagine that if Pike had won,
00:19:37
Speaker
I would imagine that surely, surely at least Kirk would, but like ah you should absolutely, if Kirk gets one Spock should get one. So it's been, it's weird with the relationship with Pike versus Kirk over the years, and I have a really strong feeling it has everything to do with Shatner. Like him still being alive, like just being around. Like I remember in Deep Space Nine, Cisco was awarded the Pike Medal of Valor. Why that wasn't the Kirk one, I don't know. But just to show how old the medal is, like how long it goes back. Why does Captain Pike necessarily warrant a Federation holiday? Unclear to me. Seems like or Starfleet holiday. It seems like Captain Kirk
00:20:21
Speaker
would get that. ah I don't know. That's just my opinion. It's it's weird just to think about how Kirk does not like persist ah in the way that he's the other characters seem to be honored throughout time. And I have some thoughts about that part of it, not the Kirk versus Mike later on. Do you think it's mostly just Shatner just how he is today and that like they're not necessarily um but I have to believe it has to do with people's feelings about Shatner and their vague memory of what Kirk was. Like I really strongly believe a lot of people think that Kirk is just like a pig who just fails upwards, which to me is means that they didn't watch the original series or you know, it's like it's Captain Kirk is
00:21:10
Speaker
one is the best Star Trek captain or he's in the top three. He's, you know, ah people can have their favorite captains, but like half the Starfleet captains were watching. They're like figuring out how to be captain. And Kirk is basically fully formed when we meet him. And I don't know, he's a little bit of a renegade, but he's not he's not Shatner. Yes. But I feel like people's actual vision of like Shatner, the actor, Shatner, the person yeah is kind of clouding their memory of who Kirk was. I also feel like it's easier to think fondly of people who aren't around or like very little like it's easy to pump up Pike because Kirk's there and you can kind of take him for granted. You have all those episodes. Shatner is still alive. So like the memory of Pike can like stand strong. then Kirk, it's just like a weird human reaction, I feel like. yeah um But celebrity, I feel like, is a big part of this episode that I'm going to mention it later. ah Let's get into the grades, unless you have some other facts you wanted to mention. The the only fact that I wanted to mention is ah that ah Jack Quaid improvised the Riker move and and surprised Jonathan f Friggs, who directed the episode.
00:22:23
Speaker
There is quite a lot of improv in this episode. And then Frank said he had to leave a lot of it out. He did turn in like a big long cut with all of it. I want to see every second of that footage because those two are and improv geniuses. when All right, let's get into the grades. We'll start with great scenes and Katie, take it away. This episode is filled with them, but I have to say one of my all-time favorite scenes is when Tawny Newsom's character, Beckett Mariner, takes Ahura and says, you need to take a break because you're thinking too hard. You're working on this problem too long. um And so she takes her to have um drinks at the bar. And um just the way that she like pours the drink and she's like talking about what is it the um
00:23:10
Speaker
Oh, the the alcohol. Oh, the Orion hurricane. Orion hurricane. But they don't have their the Turok vodka or whatever their version of it was. It was, yeah. Yeah, like truly will mess up your life. Like how brilliant she took a cartoon character and made it very realistic in a live action sense. I think is something that a lot of people who are trying to transition certain animes over to live action could take note of where you could be loud and big and hilarious, but with a very subtle acting stance. Yeah. I really well done. um I love that scene. Any time they um they referred to Una and um Jack Quaid's character, Boimbler gets shy and like runs away.
00:24:00
Speaker
yeah Like, when you finally realize why it is that he's getting so shy around her, it like it seriously tears me up that like her her saying is put on a poster that he keeps in his bunk, which causes a lot of, like, misconceptions. Is that what you think? yes Is it a pinup? I mean, yeah the fact that it's pinned up. what Are we saying the same thing? um i like that That last scene when they're leaving to go back and and Una's just like, oh, she finally realizes they used my phrase at Aspera. Aspera per- At Aspera per Aspera. Aspera, thank you. it It makes me tear up every single time because it's just like we had just seen how important this phrase was in a couple of episodes before.
00:24:48
Speaker
um and how this was like her reason to join Starfleet to become a Starfleet officer and continue to fight the good fight and for progress. And like that that is used in the future to recruit people to Starfleet, just sealed a beautiful section of her story that I wasn't expecting. And I i love that scene. I absolutely love that scene. I thought the scene where Boimler awakens in sickbay just after he comes through the portal and he's trying to at first play off that he's a time traveler. And then Pike's like, we know you're from the future. And then he relaxes. oh i got And then ah he's like, how long ago do you think, how far away do you think you're from? It's like, I don't know, 120 years. And Pike makes that joke. You don't look a day over 100. And when does the Julia Roberts laugh?
00:25:35
Speaker
I think it was wait for a second level of it. Yes, yes exactly. So you're mentioning that you thought Tawny Newsom does a great job of transitioning Mariner from animated to live action. I think ah Jack Quaid does the same with Boimler because Boimler is the emotional fulcrum of the episode or he's the the load bearer of the episode. And so he can't the the joy of Mariner coming into the episode, which I think is a fantastic act out. I don't think the scene that leads into it when Boimler saying goodbye is like a great scene, but worth noting, like, yes, that's a great midact point. OK, now there's another one and it's Mariner.
00:26:15
Speaker
ah She just gets to be Mariner. We know what a Mariner thing is like every time. But Boimler in live action, now he has to be subtle and he can't just be cartoon version or animated Boimler. And so Jack Quaid has to act and I think he's caring. You see a lot of adjustments on his face. He's reading, you know, he's reading other people's emotions. He's trying to play it cool, you know, but then he has to deliver the joke. I think he has to do a lot in that episode. That scene where he first steps out onto the bridge, I think, is another great scene. He's on the bridge of the Enterprise, and they asked to remember he has to convince Pike not to ah like destroy the war Orion ship. It's not a warship, it's a science vessel. And then the vessel gets away, and he has to be like, oh, sure shoot.
00:26:58
Speaker
And he kind of has that reaction while Pike's talking to him. He has, you know, Pike's talking to the captain. The captain's kind of playing, the Orion captain's kind of playing a little elusive. And and I swear, Quaid's reaction is conveying the line, ah, no, he is definitely being shady. It seems like a warship. like kits it's It's a great, it's a great reaction. Um, the, the most cartoony he ever is, is quite possibly my all time favorite image. And it is him doing his speed walk away where he's like essentially got his wrist. He's doing the section 31 walk.
00:27:34
Speaker
yeah She power walks away. Oh, my God. Oh, and then this is also a great part um that I nearly forgot. But I need to mention in the opening, when they transition the Strange New World's opening credits into a one for one animated opening credits and they they do the entire opening as they do in Strange New Worlds, but they do it
Easter Eggs and Animation to Live-Action Transition
00:27:59
Speaker
animated. And then at the very end, you have the typical sort of like the the moons or whatever eclipsing each other. And then you have, in the clouds, dear Brian, the koala! What does he know? He's not saying. He's not saying!
00:28:19
Speaker
I just, I love the koala has an appearance in this episode too. Like that blew my mind. I think it was a mistake for them to do it that way because it immediately invited comparisons between the animated enterprise and then the CG model that they use, which I think looks terrible. And the animated version looks so much better that why would you invite people to make the to remember? Oh, yeah, the enterprise doesn't look like a dingy, like that stupid Aztec patching that they have all over. It's the worst looking enterprise.
00:28:55
Speaker
bar none. I didn't even realize that. He didn't think I was going that way. He thought I was gonna diss. I was like, no, in the animated version. And you're not wrong. And that's the funny thing is that I was like, oh my god, it's so beautiful. I love this animation. This is amazing. Can't wait to see this happen again. Oh, wait, that's not their opening. you can barely see the real the enterprise that they use and it just it doesn't look good so but yes the the animated sequence was nice it was a nice touch again just another sign like this was intended to be for the lower deck audience uh the younger people than anything else yeah uh not a great scene but every time
00:29:36
Speaker
Spock smiles and Boimler freaks out. oh Great directing, great shot selection for the creepy smile and then just him reacting oh wonderful every time. Let me go back to the the Section 31 walk. I think that was a great scene that Boimler confronts Mariner because Mariner, after she's aboard, she's like, oh, yeah, I'll go. I have linguistic background. I'll go work with O'Hara. And Boimler knows about materials. He should work with Spock.
00:30:07
Speaker
But basically, that scene is like, boy, I was like, I've already done all that stuff. Like, this is yeah this is about like us figuring out how to get out of here. And like otherwise, if we get stuck here, we have to figure out how to live off the grid. And Mariner is like, no, no, no, I need the grid. It's yeah, it's like ah it's like a it's a dramatic scene that actually something in Lower Decks that they would do in a way that wouldn't It would land, but it would be like probably done on an action scene because it they would to it would be tempting to be boring. But here it's like he has to convey the pathos of like, no, listen, you're just getting here. I get it. It's fun. But I've already done all that. And he like looks like that's over. Every time Boimos has to be serious in this episode because he gets to do the micro expressions of a human being.
00:30:56
Speaker
it feels serious. And she's reacting to him being serious. They're not in recording booths weeks apart, you know, picking up on sound cues, whatever. And so I think it really works. It's a nice, it's a scene, you know, for time travelers, these ensigns, it's like very believable of like what they would be discussing of like how we got to figure this out. And then of course, it ends with the comedic tag of him sashaying away. But I like the Mariner Una part of it. And then it leads into the Mariner Una part of it where it's like it is a poster that's pinned up. yeah So I thought that was a great scene. Are we talking about the same thing? talking about the same thing. Such a great delivery. And you're you're totally right. that's I think that's one of the things that Lower Decks does do fairly well. And i you're also right that they usually would pad it with like
00:31:45
Speaker
Action or a weird alien creeping out from underneath the bench or something you know like it would be Punctuated by something funny, but the funny ends up being Buddha walking through and he's like nope gotta go yep Any other great scenes Oh gosh. ah I mean, I love that Boiler gets so excited that he has to take Dr. Mombenga's tricorder because he's like, oh my gosh, is this is this ah an antique T90 whatever? ah And he's like, well, I mean, it is a tricorder and it's what I have as normal things. And he's like, oh, you can't get these. Oh, like like he's looking at an old fashioned car. I love when he geeks over the tech.
00:32:29
Speaker
um or even honestly just seeing him in those like little goofy science glasses and doing the jumps as he would like his jump scare of like things exploding if you were a cartoon and apparently He does the scream, too. He does the high pitch scream, which is amazing. And it's so funny to see him do it in real person because he looks like a cartoon. Absolutely. through and um I also love when they're trying to steal the ship in order to just get away and like run their own mission and they capture them and they're like, yeah, you're not that smart.
00:33:09
Speaker
Right. I like the scene where Boimler runs the chapel and said and you know basically says, i I think I broke Spock. right And and then that convert you know like in the future, he's super serious and all that stuff. And that's when Boimler realizes that he's breaking Christine's heart. Yeah. Because Spock isn't going to turn out, her relationship isn't going to turn out the way she hopes. She says, i it's fine. I never assumed that I would get to influence him forever anyway. You know, she's able to kind of get the tears to well up or the eyes to well up with tears. And, and ah Jack Quaid again, acting, you know, Boimler gets to show some emotional intelligence, but he's not just saying it. he's
00:33:46
Speaker
both reacting to it and saying it. you know a lot of I have a lot of issues with them just flagrantly tossing the temporal prime directive aside and and him being concerned about like, he's telling everybody everything. You know what I mean? There's not one confidence. It's silly. it's It breaks the lower decks reality of like, they're so obsessed with, you know, Boimler's such a rule follower and he's obsessed with the era. like It almost seems like he would confide only in Spock because he knows that Spock's time traveled and understands it. And but it it doesn't work that way because this is a crossover. So they got to interact with all the characters and they got to find a reason to do that. But, you know, like you were saying, they were they are dropping these characters in as a way of also continuing the Strange New World story arcs for the season. Right.
00:34:34
Speaker
So we just had chapel and spa cook up in the previous episode. So it's a little bit of a bummer that then this scene happens and then that's it. The relationship is effectively over and we don't get like a follow up and the the subspace Rhapsody Christine's like, I'm applying for an internship and I can't wait to leave. Right. And that's basically the end of it. So this essentially ends their relationship, for better or worse. so I still thought it was a good scene between the two of them. It was ah a nice moment where Chappell's not just being snarky and and made sense emotionally.
00:35:10
Speaker
Yeah, within the the craziness of like. Absolutely. Within the reality of both Star Trek and the ridiculousness of a crossover. Yes. OK, is this a great scene? I don't know. But and when we do our animated spotlights, this would definitely be a great moment. Boimler says he can adjust the enterprise's sensors so that they can track the Orion's. And he's like, they're like, well, how are you going to do that? He's like, I don't know. Maybe um don't look. Which I feel like was honestly a total Trek moment. Like, like what a classic Trek like, here, I can solve this and it's simple, but I don't want you to know the actual answer. So let me just go underneath and you don't look. That's a great point. You're totally right. That's what that is. But also I think it's a lower deck solution to a meta Star Trek question.
00:36:00
Speaker
You know, there's there's been so many Star Trek time travel stories. So like you've got a list of all the things they've done in a time traveled story and why they can't do this this is or that. And this seems like them coming up with a new reason to do something that doesn't break the timeline where it's someone from the future saying like, how about you just don't look. you know because then this ist done I just undo it. I don't know. Right. Cause in Star Trek four, right? It's like the, the transparent aluminum. They're just the gambit is how do we know he didn't invent the thing? You know, which is funny. And that's one version doing that. This is the other version.
00:36:32
Speaker
and I think that's perfectly valid. I like that very much. Let's see. um So ah just to go back to that scene where they're trying to, you know, do the shuttle thing, I guess I forgot to mention this. I had this note. What I really liked about it, it's another emotional scene like that, that what he has with Mariner, where he's like, we're going to have to live up off the grid. But it's it's the emotional, it's a little bit of a bummer that the emotional arc of the episode is running through. are crossover characters, but he's both realizing, you know, the past is the past and it was fun to be here, but that's not what I want to be. I don't want to live in the past. And also, I want to help people and I want to worry about the future. I want to live in the present. And right now, how can I help the most people? It's very Star Trek, very Starfleet, very Boimler. And and Mariner is right there. She's like, oh, yeah, but you don't know how to like break the rules. And then you're totally right. Then it gets upended immediately. So yeah.
00:37:24
Speaker
And I will say that I was a little bit, um I feel like I was a little bit fooled when I see Boimler going back to the little thing to go back to the future, I guess. And I didn't, I was like, wait a minute, we never had Mariner in the past. That's so odd. I was like, well, I guess we're kind of wrapping up and it was a false ending. And then Mariner comes through and I was like, oh, and then she just says, the best lines of just like geeking it out. And she's just like, oh, you guys are great. But is a horror here? Is she? Is she here? Just they're like, Tony Newsome, you here are three lines for the whole episode. You get to make up the rest. And she did. You know, she did. but Oh, my God. The stuff that she came out with. And she's such a huge Trek fan. It's so lovely to see somebody who is a freaking hilarious be a total fan.
00:38:17
Speaker
and see get to do something that they love in their own fandom and then like knock him out of the park. Sorry to also be a dude about this, but she is attractive, which I think is a key part of being a good Star Trek character. yeah This being not interesting looking, but kind of attractive too. Yeah, 100%. Tommy's a total hot body. I think that's important. Let's be honest, like if you have anyone to watch on Instagram, Tawny Euston's account is hilarious and um she goes on trek cruises and hangs out with the fans all the time, so yeah highly recommend.
00:38:55
Speaker
All right, best Trek tropes. ah Time travel to begin with. I mean, we literally had just gotten out of a couple of time travel episodes ah with Strange New Worlds. um that I think um the reveal of bringing Tony or bringing Beckett Mariner back was like a total Trek trope of just like, We have a potential solve, but it's too early in the episode, so now we're going to make it worse. and like We've used the last of our resources in order to get you back, so now what do we have to do? How can we science our way through this?
00:39:31
Speaker
and if also so yeah That is what would happen in an episode of Lower Decks, is that they think they've got it all solved, and then someone takes it a step too far. they they you know Mariner's like, I got to go back and save him, and then just but the just the one extra thing. um What else do you have? Um, I also have it being Pike's birthday and he doesn't want anyone to know, like, Oh, ever the best trope. I think it's a hilarious trip. I mean, maybe not a best trip. Maybe this was for my worst trips, but it was like, it was just so.
00:40:06
Speaker
classically, like, I'm the captain, like, it felt kind of Picard in a way, where it's just like, and I don't want people to know about this. ah Kids are annoying, you know, like, I have to maintain this sort of like upper chin, ah you know, like, well, that's what I mean, that to one, that would be an interesting angle for Pike to take, but that's not the explanation he gives. No, right. So it's a little bit different when I actually put his explanation in of its time. So ah Because I have some thoughts about that as someone with also with father issues. Interesting. Let's interest it. Oh, go deeper. For best trek tropes, I i put the ensigns log at the beginning.
00:40:49
Speaker
so i've had an e ah In one of our earlier episodes, we had Michael Bauman on and basically, you know, Strange New Worlds is very big on doing anyone but the captain's log. And his line was, in like 22 or 26 episode season, that's fine to like change it up every so often. But like the fact that they do it every episode is annoying. in the original series, DC Fontana was very big on, do we have to start the episode every episode with the captain's log? Even in the original series, they're like, we don't have to start every episode with the captain's log. And for whatever reason, Strange New Worlds doesn't just get into the story. However, it's great here because, again, this is ah essentially a very expensive episode, the most expensive episode of Lower Decks that will ever be made. ah um You know, they didn't Roger Rabbit all of it, but... I was hoping for a little bit of a moment where like someone shows up as a cartoon, but that's fine. But I liked it because it was funny and it it set up, you know, it got you right into what it was. They're talking about the portal and Boimler is excited to be taking the portal readings, making sure the portal area is free of any portal problems. um But that was I thought it was nice. ah Those old scientists, another lower deck stroke, just saying that makes me laugh. so
00:42:08
Speaker
It's something that we would have come up with when we were in high school as a joke just so on the playground. But I'm fine with it. Also, lower decks, I was when it first came up, I was super concerned it was going to be like a running joke constant. And no, they don't they don't hit it too hard. It's just something they put out there and like they let the fans run with it and then they kind of bring it back every like whenever, like basically here. And that's great. Those old scientists, TOS. Yeah, exactly. Like that that alone geeked me out. Uh, the casual Starfleet racism. Usually this is a worse Trek trope, but this is a key plot point in the episode. there are riots Yeah. And I love that. And I love, honestly, I have to give credit. I wasn't huge on the makeup of the orions in the real life, but I have to give credit to the actor who, when they say like in, in my timeline, but I'm just like,
00:43:02
Speaker
you're considered scientists. And he you can also be scientists. like yeah you could also be yes you could also be scientists as so But you see the actors face kind of soft and he's like, that's all I've ever really wanted. And a very cartoon resolution to the conflict. But yes, you're totally right. The actor is real. Yes, the actor is real. the actor's real. And I think his performance in that moment was actually very touching. And like, it was like, yeah, like, I mean, when you have these sort of ah warring parties or but like people who have sort of like these, that you kind of leave out the possibility of progress when you have these presuppositions of people. And I i love when they bring that kind of tropism into trust Star Trek, where it's like, hey, guys, they can be scientists too. Yeah, I mean, though we've labeled Lower Decks as being as guilty as any Star Trek shows, tossing out casual racism because they're aliens. And the fact that it's a key plot point, I'm like, good, good for them.
00:43:59
Speaker
um Is this a Lower Decks trope? It didn't start in Lower Decks, but they used it more than any other show, ah where when Boimler wakes up in Sick Bay and he's he's told where he is and he goes, computer and program, I'm a huge fan. I think it is a Lower Decks thing, because I think they do that a lot. because yeah and they're like Instead of saying, is this real life, they just go computer and program. I love it. I think it's it started in shipping a bottle. It was Barkley, who was the first one to do that when because that in that episode, they were trapped in the holiday and they didn't know it for a while. So at the end, he wanted to make sure. And I'm like, that's amazing. And like in real life, I mean, if that was a ah concept of your real life, like it is in Starfleet in this, that would be a consideration. So.
00:44:47
Speaker
I love it. I put Boimler's speedwalk. because second Of course, the Boimler scream. scream yep They're all good tropes. Any other best trek tropes? The pike-isms. I do like the pike-isms in this. like he He does a lot to Boimler, but he's like, you know next time. please don't mention this or like like he's sort of undercutting his own lines by just being like please don't talk about my birthday and next time don't come back here it's amazing because they they're giving him cartoonish
00:45:23
Speaker
scenes and he's because he's answered Mount finding the moments of realness of humanity to like make sure it's like they want me to be silly here, but I have to still be the captain. It's a I'm not going to say it's like a delicate balancing act. It's just he knows when to pull it right in. And then they have to. I'm sure they're being like a little bigger. He's like, okay. But, you know, he's really good at bad. Yes, exactly. It's he's still recognizably Pike. Yeah, that's a good one. um I'm not a fan. I don't think there's anything intimidating about being brought in after getting captured and then the guys chopping carrots.
Temporal Prime Directive and Time Travel Tropes
00:46:04
Speaker
and So, so even though he's doing his pikisms with his little apron. but Yeah, exactly. But actually, you're reminding me that scene when they're on the bridge and Boimler is trying to warn them that that's actually a science ship. he's going, like, do the Orions have science ships? You know what I mean? Like, he's playing into the tone of this kooky crossover, but also being very serious. And it's like good dad energy. He was the same guess I referenced before, saying, like, Pike's very much a millennial dad. It's the energy. Oh, wow. So you know what? Pike being in a millennial dad, that's probably the drug joke. Oh my God, that's totally what it is. He's he's just tired. He's seen too much and he has too much that he already knows he's is about to see. But he has great hair. yeah But he has great hair and like that product line that he's subscribing to is perfect for him.
00:47:00
Speaker
ah um I also love that they brought in a lot of Lower Decks tropes in the very end when they put Strange New Worlds in the animation. They have, like, who is it? It wasn't a Hohora. Oh no, it was Ortega. who's like My eyes feel huge. Are they huge? Always tricky when they do those tags. So as it was nice that they had that conceit of like, oh, we're we're drinking this crazy, real Orion liquor. Yeah. Yeah. And then figure that out. Yeah, somehow. And then they're turned into cartoons. Yeah. And you had to do it. And I think that was that was fun. That was warranted. All right. Worst trek tropes.
00:47:39
Speaker
Um, okay. You're like, nothing I love them all. I mean, they were, I i do have on here, um, the talking about the time travel boundaries, like reestablishing, like, you're not supposed to talk about the future. You're not supposed to do this. And then Ortega is just like, Oh yeah, don't get romantically involved with anyone. And he's like, I don't think I know that one. Oh my God, the Laan bit is so corny and it reminds you, like you know this is ah effectively a CW show in a lot of ways, but like on being yes, don't get personally involved. So you can destroy the universe. It's like, okay, calm down. Yeah, I know. And it was just like, that was such an odd episode, like what she's referencing. Yes. That one, that episode really took me out of it more than the musical. You know, it was a weird
00:48:35
Speaker
beat to call back on. And it was like a weird. Do we need every character to be touched upon on their arcs? Like, because he's thrown out like Ortegas, you're a war hero in the know chapel in Spock or like it literally is like if you've never seen Strange New Worlds before, here it is. Yeah. um And that's literally what they were doing. So I was a little strange. The temporal prime directive, though, like that was my worst trek tropes because they trample all over it. It's just total bullshit in this episode. Well, and I think that's kind of the point of it a lot of the times when they bring up the prime directive or the temporal prime directive. Like, anytime they do, they always break it in some way. And whether or not that's like, a way to like make the future better or make their circumstances in the moment better, I don't know. But like, I feel like they break it every time. They break it, sure. But the fact is, is that when
00:49:28
Speaker
He tells chapel that. And I think I actually bought the emotion of what's going on. Boimler is like, oh, no, I broke Spock. I've ruined history. And but for for some reason, he doesn't go to Spock. He goes to chapel, but he's freaked out by Spock. Fine. He goes to chapel and he breaks her heart. And then he realizes, oh, crap, I have too much power. I know too much. I've hurt this person. All that stuff that makes sense. However, there is no. he and He kind of is trying to warn Mariner off about that. And I think we're the episode, the fact that both of them dip right into it in the same way, you know, because Mariner is coming at it from like she's coming back to rescue him. She's kind of we find out she's the one that got on the assignment. And we know from watching Lord X, Mariner knows her shit. She she quotes regulations to her. So she knows it. So I guess what I'm saying is like the turn should have been after he breaks her heart that the episode could have taken
00:50:23
Speaker
We didn't need to know that Una was a pin-up poster. You said you liked the delivery of number one. that Here's just my thought. I agree with you. I like how it touches her, but all he had to say was, at Astra Peraspera, that he knew what that was. That's all it had to be. he We could have seen the poster in his bunk when it gets back. It would have had the same effect. It would have been consistent with the temporal prime directive, but they didn't want to do that because they want to make sure everyone understood. also Boimler and Boimler is a bumbling idiot and no matter what he's gonna f**k it up and like that's kind of that's the most lower Dex trope ever is that like of course they're gonna make Boimler stick with Spock who's doing a weird human experiment like the weirdest thing always happens to Boimler because he's like did anyone else see that no what's happening and and before anyone turns this off if they haven't already
00:51:14
Speaker
In tomorrow, in tomorrow, in tomorrow, the episode you were just saying with Laan, where she travels back in time, she meets up with Polia in the past. And she could have just told Polia exactly how they know each other. but And she doesn't. She doesn't. She intentionally doesn't give specifics, but certainly suggests enough so that Polia will be like, I will help you or whatever. like and and and then And I marked that as like a great Trek Trope. I'm like, Laan knows her shit. And she, that was a nice moment of being like, well, how can we bend without breaking this temporal prime directive, which matters a lot. And here you have two crossover characters telling everyone their future. And that's, you know what I mean? Like, that's where I go. That's a little worse Trek Trope.
00:52:01
Speaker
Mariner is in there just telling her, you're going to be great. That's why I put it as work structure. But it's what you're saying, because the reason they're using it is just to get what they want. And it just seems like you're, you guys are just, you want to pick out on candy. You don't want to have, you don't want to be responsible and have your meal first and then have your dessert. You just want all treats.
Fame and Technology in the Star Trek Universe
00:52:21
Speaker
You want, but yeah. I put the captain's log. So I put the ensign's log as the best truck trope. I put the captain's log. like in a Pike kicks off act one with captain's log, sardade 29, 2291.6 en route to a deliver, a crucial shipment of grain to a colony on set like three. We encountered something more pressing a time traveler.
00:52:45
Speaker
So wait, so first of all, they're setting up the act. We're on streaming. Are people going to really forget commercials or whatever? Even if they miss it, they can go back and watch it. It's just that's why you have the captain's log setting up what's going on in the old days anyway. yeah But wait, in the teaser, it's Boymore establishes that the enterprise discovered this time portal. So then we get in Act One, they're saying the enterprise was actually on its way to deliver a shipment of grain to a colony. And what it picked up a temporal distortion, it went over, like, why did it stop there? yeah Why was it there in the first place? And so it just seemed like that it it was more and then and then. So I really didn't like the capital. It's like in this one because it had to like not only like so tell us what we already know, it then had to set up this entire other storyline that ah ah played into the O'Rions and why Boiler wanted to jump off the ship and help people and all that stuff. And I just was like, why? Why did they do that?
00:53:46
Speaker
Silly, silly captain's log. Not a fan. That's so fascinating because like i like it was just like a moment. like you know It just felt like it was another Trek thing. Then it was like, oh yeah, okay. Never thought about it again. I was so into is the portal problem, the portal area, so I was paying attention to what I'm saying. And then my other worst trick trope, this is more of a Lower Decks one, I've been asking listeners, if you've gone back and rewatch, just watch every episode. and And this season they really decided, we don't know how to write Spock, we know what Spock's future is, we don't know how much of a buffer we have until he has to really, like every day of his life can't be some sort of like historic occasion. So we have to give it some time. So let's focus on the other characters. In the meantime, let's turn Spock into a punchline. And that this episode, for better or worse, because I just I highlighted every time they cut to Spock smiling, you know, it's like a data runner where data is trying to do something more human. right I'm fine with what was going on there.
00:54:47
Speaker
But basically Spock was, ah two episodes in a row, the most clownish versions of Spock that have ever existed. and And this was just a continuation of that. I mean, he's the one that gets the squiggly arm in the in the animated bit too. So it's like, so Spock is a punchline. I consider that a worst Trek trope. That makes sense. It's scary to write great Spock. So write write against what Spock is and then you can get jokes out of that. And at least you have jokes instead of bad drama. Makes sense. Which I have to say that I like his portrayal. I mean, Leonard Nimoy is all obviously like the best that ever will be. But I mean, I think Ethan Peck's number two. He's he's shot right up. He's number two. Yeah. and Really leapfrog some people. yeah Yes. Yes.
00:55:33
Speaker
All right, most of its time quality ad living that this is yeah unlike Star Trek does not has never allowed ad living in this episode. They were. They were like weapons-free. Everyone just go nuts. Let's see what happens if we just let it go. That was the producers thing. It's not me judging. I'm just saying most of the time, ad-libbing. What do we have? The Apatow model shows that you can you can create story or create comedy out of letting people go free. In TV, it's very risky. You don't have time. But if you create the time for it, then it it can certainly help. Curvy enthusiasm isn't almost an entirely ad-libbed show. So as long as you have an outline, you have things to go off of. but
00:56:10
Speaker
You know, apparently there is a huge runner of all the just the raunchy stuff Mariner started to say about hot Spock. Yes. You know that woman went off. Exactly. So and and great. Like you said, you've got ah great improvisers. So that's where you do it. You know, just, you know, you don't invite Daniel Day Lewis onto your Judd Apatow movie and have him have him ad lib. I'd love to see it. But it'll be a dark ad lib. I'll tell you that. It won't be great. Yeah. So it just. trusting people to do to be funny because you want it to be funny, that's very at most of its time quality, not just for Star Trek, just in general. Uh, Ohura saying, no judgment and unpack that. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, there I knew there were some phrases that were in this episode that I couldn't remember that I was just like, it felt a little anachronistic. Yeah. The scene with
00:57:02
Speaker
where Boimler spills the guts of or reveals that Pike's birthday birthday is a holiday. That's all the just there for him to do that, to further the Pike storyline. But around that, Chapel and Ortegas are pretty annoying. They're like, what do they have jet packs in the future? We have jet packs now. Well, and they even get called out. They're like, you you're starting to sound like them now. Yeah. But also, well, that's a little bit then later. But I mean, their tone of being jokey joke about what's supposed to be in the reality. Right. Serious. But they're coming at it like TV writers being like, oh, we got to write this stupid crossover time travel story. Let's just it's cartoons and comic. You do have jet packs in the future. We have jet packs now. ah That kind of thing. I just thought it was just very writerly stepping into the story to fill page
00:57:48
Speaker
To fill pages. Well, and listen, when you've got seasons that are only 10 episodes, there's only so much you can do because you don't have filler episodes. And I guess technically this could have... I invert that you are holding. You're saying that should mean they should have more room to have filler. And I'm saying, no, they should have less. I know. It's funny because i'm I'm talking to a lot of people and a lot of people are pushing back ah on me on this because like no one wants the filler episodes. I miss the filler episodes. I'm not talking about filler episodes. I'm talking about filler dialogue in scenes like you're just trying. like And I and I think I explained this in another episode. I'm pretty sure it's born of they actually have less time to write these episodes than
00:58:29
Speaker
you staffs have had in the past. no yeah like They get maybe three months to write 10 episodes, which sounds maybe to some of you like a lot, but it's not. its and and they don't get to rewrite The writers don't get to rewrite them into production, the showrunners do. And when you've got showrunners like Akiva Goldsman and Henry Alonzo Myers, Henry Alonzo Myers is like sweating every day, making sure that they can produce the show and making help making all these executive decisions about what things look like, who they're casting, what the edits going to look like. And Akiva Goldsman, every other day, is announcing a new project. so
00:59:00
Speaker
You know you got got one hand on the wheel with the writing once they go into production. This is late in the season. So there the writers are just scrambling to get the stuff out there. I think though it's just endemic of that makes it even more of its time that you kind of have these these situations. I have a couple more that I'm able to summarize, but do you have any before I dive into them? You know, it's funny it just I was like, I know that there's some anachronisms and there's some things that I'm like, oh, but i I can't remember if that's a different episode or not. So I have nothing. Along those lines, though, Polia's advice to Boimler is fake it till you make it, which is not new. That's not most of its time. I'm guess I'm saying the the TV writer way of inserting that in as sort of a meaningful, dramatic thing.
00:59:45
Speaker
one of the most famous fake it till you make it uh speeches of all time was Leo McGarry in the west wing job please giving the same wisdomy talk yeah to uh to Boimler here um and then Beckett Mariner is most of its time. That character is 100% only of the moment we live in now. and it it it's like I love that as soon as she comes in, like there is no like qualm for her of revealing anything. in the field like She doesn't care. She's just kind of tromping through the past and like has no care for the temporal directive by any stretch of the imagination. yeah
01:00:26
Speaker
But it's still kind of like trying to keep certain things back that like she you know doesn't necessarily need to put out there, but um does it a little bit more classier than Bormler does, who just haphazardly goes through. Pike's dad issues? ah Sure. i'm not really I think a lot of people would say like the counter-argument to why does every Star Trek character have a tragic backstory, It would be the same thing here. Like pretty much every Star Trek captain has some sort of issue with his dad, but Cisco didn't. We don't really know a lot about Janeway and her parents, but that seemed like a pretty healthy relationship. Jonathan Archer missed his dad, but they didn't seem to have a better relationship. So I'd actually push back on the pushback. I'm imagining just to say it's very much of its time. Like when all else fails, daddy issues, right put that in there, like Pike, not wanting to celebrate his, his birthday.
01:01:19
Speaker
could just be like, I'm the captain. ah My job is I'm supposed I'm supposed to be taking care of you, not you supposed to be taking care of me or I don't know, you could find a more dad thing or whatever. um I just thought the birthday thing was kind of anyway, it doesn't matter. It's also not on his storyline for the season. His storyline for the season, it kind of is in the way of like, can you make connections with people? But that's not really it. It's about can you have a meaningful relationship with people instead of being closed off, which is kind of suggested by that. But he's not alienated from his crew. He has them over for dinner all the time. He asks them how they're feeling all the time. So there's not a disconnect with his crew.
01:02:00
Speaker
Well, I mean, there is a disconnect, I think, on him as a personal level. And that's what Borneau touches on. He's just like, you just never know how many birthdays you have left. Because he knows the story. And the crazy thing is that Pike knows it too. And that's what kind of blows him away. But he's just like, yeah, no, we all know that like this is going to be an eventuality that I might not be around very much longer. And ah the time is ticking. a small universe problem. So, you know, Nausicaans, Domjot, and like, Setlic 2, it's like, it's the prequel to Setlic 3, which was established in TNG, that's where O'Brien had his war trauma with the Cardassians. right So you're establishing Cardassians and Nausicaans, and I think Strange New Worlds has mentioned a lot of other
01:02:49
Speaker
species already that are like TNG DS9 era and I think it's kind of there's a part in that episode and that scene I didn't really like where Boimler's talking to Ortegus in chapel where he's talking about all that this is the golden name age of exploration and all the aliens you're going to meet And because most of the writers grew up on next generation or use that as their foundation, they're not actually remembering that they did not like it's a weird way of shrinking the universe. What's to be discovered if they're all happening at the same time? OK, and then my last one was.
01:03:24
Speaker
Fame being the peak accomplishment for people. This is all about how famous the crew of the enterprise is and O'Hara, all the things she's going to do. You know, that is a trickier part of this because this is Tani Musim wishing, like wanting to deliver a love letter to Nichelle Nichols. Sure. Because of the character of Uhura, unfortunately, she didn't have that much great stuff to do. Everything she did just happened to be great. But like she's not a hero on the poster the way that the other characters are kind of being treated. So it is a little weird that Mariner would know about the communications officer aboard the Enterprise all those years, whose biggest moments that people remember are when she's singing in the rec room, you know her relationship with the characters that are like friendships.
01:04:11
Speaker
And then like maybe the fan dance from Star Trek five and her holding the phaser pistol on the ends and in Star Trek three. But that it's born of in the episode, it's not treated like it's a love letter. Like there's no mariner. Mariner doesn't come to appreciate this person. She maybe kind of remembers. It's immediately like Ohura Ohura Ohura. And she's talked about Ohura several times in the episodes before in Lower Decks. And then what happens though, like Ortegus and Ohura are then talking about Mayweather and Hoshi Sato and like just the idea that like it's all about being famous and that's what you're that's what's going to be the thing that matters. That's what it's what it leans towards.
01:04:55
Speaker
I took it more to mean that like they were famous for their progress, not necessarily for like specific acts. What it seems like they're trying to establish within Strange New Worlds is that Ahura did create different pathways to like find new ways of language and like she's a linguist so like she knows all these different ways and then that's what gives us the musical episode which granted you know maybe not my favorite but I think what they're trying to do is establish sort of this reverence towards what she contributed to Starfleet in general and I think that's where we get
01:05:31
Speaker
a lot of those references in Lower Decks where it's like, yeah, you're more commenting on the actor or the performance or the thing that we've seen in previous series, and that's really what it is. But they're also feeding it into the storyline of like who these people are and why they should be revered. And I liked that. I like i agree. i just think it's of its initial yeah I just think it's of its time to reflect that yeah people appreciate you because of your fame. Sure. We're all like, oh, celebrities, great. And they're basically treating all the enterprises as celebrities. Yeah. And I think ah it would be fair to assume that people who have worked on the enterprise and who have made big strides in discovering strange new worlds um via the and enterprise are people that a lot of people within the universe are going to revere. I mean, they have days. In Trials and Tribulations, here's my first big comp, Chief O'Brien didn't go, that's Scotty. You know what I mean? Like they would do now. right and And it's just they they treated it much more like the episode, if there was an arc, it was a love letter to the original series. But Sisko was, of course, he loves Captain Kirk.
01:06:43
Speaker
But he holds it in to accomplish the mission. And then at the end, he allows himself that little thing. And he says specifically, of course I want to meet Captain Kirk. I want to ask him about fighting the Gorn and all that stuff. But we have things to do. And this one was much more in front of, Mariner's whole thing was like, I want to meet O'Hara. I don't want to see Boimler anymore. I want to meet O'Hara. For all she knows, she's just in the past. Who cares whether she gets back or not? That's all I'm saying. That's an error. That's of its stuff. uh now it's time for the lion must be drawn here great line so many my god there's so many the first one when when barla says you guys look very realistic and then passes out um that really got me when mariner is making the drinks and she just says that stuff will really mess up your life um for the for the hurricane drinks mariner guys a broken portal is just a tunnel
01:07:43
Speaker
it's so good um Obviously, the interaction between Mariner and Una, ah where she says, ah that's just Boimler. He's probably just freaked out because you're number one. I mean, he has a poster of you back up in his bunk. A poster? You mean like a pin-up poster? It's a poster that's pinned up. Are we saying the same thing? That cracked me up. I get another part from the animated opening part when the portal first activates and Boimler's being pulled in. The portal is trying to portal me and then tend to go stop lurching towards it. That's a joke perfect for animation. And then even though this is like referencing an episode, it was still funny. It worked in the context to where Boimler's finally sucked in. Remember me.
01:08:34
Speaker
um Obviously, when Boimler is in the room not knowing what to do, and then he Rikers the saddle, and it just goes Riker. um Or when they're they're having sort of the the meeting within the captain's quarters, and Meritor steps aside with Boimler and says, I'm sorry, hold up. Look, I'm going to keep this 100% profession, but I was thoroughly unprepared for how hot young Spock would be. Like, what? The body, the face, the ears, what?
01:09:04
Speaker
oh Yeah, I think we deserve to see more of that. Oh, my God. I don't know if it's on the season two Blu-ray. I don't actually have the season two Blu-ray of the season one. i So I don't know. Oh, nice. We're waiting for a couple more to come out before we start like buying in bulk. ah Pike tells Una, I feel like I'm trying to stop a toddler from knocking over furniture. It's a perfect way to describe but every character on Lower Decks, even Captain Freeman. So.
01:09:33
Speaker
Um, when, uh, number one is showing, um, the, uh, the badge that Bournemouth shows up in, it's like, it also uses it as a communication. And then Captain Mike goes, but flipping it is, flipping it open is the best part. And it just felt like talking about flip phones and iPhones. I know. I thought that was a great one. I can't believe it's time. But it was also, I can't believe because that scene had no dramatic purpose. It was just them walking. And then that I'm like, I can't believe they spent time. I loved it. I loved it. But at thats at the same time, I love um I love Tawny Newsom's. I assume it's an ad lib when she when Mariner comes to the portal and the music, it's a like I said, it's a perfect act out. And and you got the look on Boimler's face and you can hear her just talking, talking, talking. And the music is getting dramatic. And she goes, oh, ranks on the sleeve. I don't know about that.
01:10:30
Speaker
Oh, the amount of stuff that came out of it. There's so many credible moments. and Una, have you noticed that their references are weirdly specific? So any line that I would write, I actually think is not a good line, but I think it was well delivered. And and and that's what saves it. But that's a line you would definitely if if I woke up from a coma and it's like, Brian, you have to write an episode ah where Lower Decks crosses over with Strange New Worlds. I'm like, well, they're definitely going to make a note of how specific the references are.
01:11:03
Speaker
but be the first That must have been the the first thing on the board. me Who's going to get that line? um when they're talking about there no heronium left to power the portal. I love all the bits or mariners making squeaky noises. We were talking about how we did not like the scene where she was yawning, right? And we're like, that's an animation scene. yes This is as close to that again, but it starts with her when she makes a statement and she pulls her arms back and it makes that squeaky sound. Like, cause she's like, realizes she's, so it's like, it starts from a natural place. It's a human place.
01:11:39
Speaker
But I love the way she goes for the heronium. Can we just cook some up? The way she says cook, that's good. When Boimler's saying, if we can't figure out how to get back, we're going to have to live off the grid. And she goes, no, no, no, no. I'm not living off the grid anywhere. I thrive on the grid. I require grid. That's almost said in such a way it's of its time, but it's great. okay So good. So good. Is that a classic TS-122 tricorder? It's a 120. Can I hold it? Oh, thank you so much. Oh my god. They never improved on these. I mean, yeah, they got smaller, more powerful, and arguably less likely to explode, but design-wise, explode.
01:12:23
Speaker
I can't look at Embinga anymore and without saying, JAMAS. I've watched Dune 2 too many times now.
Performance Highlights and Iconic Moments
01:12:30
Speaker
yeah ah Let's see. And then you already said This era is weird. I know. Have you noticed how slow everybody talks? Yeah. And quietly. Yeah, I know. And then this was in the trailer for the episode. And it was the one thing that I was like, this might be an amazing episode of Star Trek because it's marrying the two things. And that is Spock saying live long and prosper, Mr. Boimler. And Boimler is so spoiled. And so emotional, he goes, I ah you also live and that they but and apparently that was an ad lib like apparently his reaction and what he tries to say. And it was so it like made a cartoon character a real person. It's a real person because that's that's like the cartooniness of like, okay, you just met like the hero of your life. And you're gonna fuck this up.
01:13:28
Speaker
I'm so sorry. But like, that is the most human moment, yes meeting your hero. And then he says the catchphrase that you have been like, pretending to say in the mirror to yourself all along, and then he actually says it to you. And of course, he's gonna mess up and just be like, ah brain does not compute. Also, the whole episode has been him freaked out that he broke Spock, and none of this is what he expected. But at the end of the day, at the start of this, he was certainly hoping that, oh, I get to meet Spock, maybe he'll say live long and prosper to me. And then he goes through this whole emotional turmoil, and then he finally gets a reward for learning something about himself through it. Live long and prosper, Mr. Weibler. Yes. Any other grade lines? I'm sure there are more and I just didn't write them down. We'll move on. The Anton Caridian Award for Best Performance. Who you got?
01:14:23
Speaker
Tawny Newsom, hands down. i oh i I loved all of them. They were all great. But Tawny, Tawny rode the line of cartoon into real life so well. And I just I cannot take my eyes off of her anytime she's performing live on screen or even as an animated character. She's so good. She's so funny. And she's so quick in this universe. Can I make I guess I want to try to change your mind because the Shatner is not wrong. Shatner is not a bad award, but who had to go for it more than anybody in this episode and her role was much more.
01:15:01
Speaker
be funny, and they said ad lib, go for it. like They told her to go for it and be fully her, both Mariner and Tawny Newsom, interact with the universe. Her scenes, none of them were serious. like Even when she's being serious with the her, ah quote unquote, that scene is about her like trying to like loosen up, have some fun, which is perfectly um in in Mariner. It's so Mariner. Meanwhile, Jack Quaid has to play aside a side of Boim where we can't really see in the animated version. It is, though. that is a hundred um I'm talking about the micro-expressions, the emotional reactions, that chapel scene especially. That's because he's always a good actor, but here's the thing. Well, we don't get to see that when he's animated. No, not when he's animated, but if you watch the boys for once, you're Brian.
01:15:50
Speaker
ah He's a good actor. And like, yes, of course he has those natural expressions. i he I feel like he does this while he's in the booth. I have no idea. I don't know. I haven't seen any of the behind the scenes of this. um But I'm just saying that like Boiler's character is true and true the entire time. It's so fun to see him cartoonize and bring things down to a human level while performing the stuff. I agree. And when there's always going to be the linchpin of like grounded decisions gone wrong, whereas Mariner is going to be the one that makes everything that goes crazy look cool and fun. And I just think that Tawny knocked Jack Wayne out of the water out of this one. Okay. They were both great. They were both great. Who do you have for the Shatner then?
01:16:35
Speaker
Oh God. but i Okay. ah Boy, I mean, is Jack Quaid. Oh, you flipped it. I had the closing animated tag aboard the Enterprise. Okay. Yeah. No, that is that makes sense. ah Because who else was going to go for, you know, they really had to go for it. And I, like I said, I thought it was earned, but also Like they had to do that. I mean, but like, you know, Spock's arms being all wacky. Sure. You know, Mabenga has like the what's in this or what is this? You know, they're all kind of freaking out or my eyes big. So I don't know. Oh, maybe it was La Ant. I think I actually had the I didn't write because of her. Like if you form any relationships, you could destroy. ria
01:17:13
Speaker
Yeah, 100 percent. No, it was on. I actually thought I thought given what the material was, I actually thought the performance was fine, was very human. She was. Yeah. OK, all right.
Humor and Teaching Moments at Starfleet Academy
01:17:25
Speaker
ah Could this episode have been hornier and would that have made it better? um Obviously, it could have. You got Tawny Newsom there. It absolutely could have been hornier. um ah I don't know if it would have made it better, per se. I mean, I think it could have been Hornier in the realm of Spock and and Chapel. The implication at the end of the last episode was that he went to recorders and they f***ed. Yeah. And so in this episode, you wouldn't really have gotten that unless you had watched the previous Lees. Now, this might have been an actual detriment of the crossover where they're like, we can't continue that storyline because that might confuse the new people coming aboard.
01:18:07
Speaker
Like we can't show them in bed together because you can imagine a scene where they're in bed together and Boiler goes to them. You know what I mean? We're something like that. Oh, I would love that. Or he like hides in the closet when they sneak into a room or something. I think the episode could have been hornier and would that have made it better? Well, I said I wanted to see more of Tawny Newsom's of Mariner's raunchiness towards Spock. Yeah. So I think it would have made it better. Some version of making Hornet. I mean, honestly, if if there were a couple passes thrown at Spock, I think that would have been great. Yeah, it's true. What part of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy?
01:18:47
Speaker
um trade negotiations with the orions yes that's a great one because it seems like they try to teach temporal prime directive stuff that everybody ignores yeah it never works out that's the thing is that it's always the boring part of the episode you want to see people breaking the rules and how that affects things either for the better or for the worse well that's why i think that we both really responded to what if you just don't look because that was respecting the spirit. I think it was respecting the letter and the spirit, but in a way that makes you go, but is it? I guess it is. Couldn't when the computer remember what he I don't know. I guess that makes sense. They're in a pinch. know It was like a nice think when when a producer gives you a note and that's just like, well, what's the logic behind this? And then all you can say back is movie magic. I don't know.
01:19:39
Speaker
I mean, but it fits, but it also seems like so cartoonish as like, but does that make sense? Like Oona's reaction is like, what? That's stupid. But it's also like, wait a minute. What are we really trying to do here? Just not. Yeah. Okay. maybe Because the temporal prime directive would actually mean that it's actually very important to set the timeline back. Yeah. So now you're kind of are in a situation where like, well, what compromises do we have to make to make sure that history is restored? That would seem like a way of doing it. So. Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. Every episode of Strange New Worlds feels like a genre piece. It's just something that they did really well in Next Generation. But then I feel like they've improved upon with Strange New Worlds is that they're they're going for the sci-fi genre, where you can change it up each week.
01:20:25
Speaker
Still have similar arcs and similar similar storylines and even in the talking to aliens Even though you're dressed as though you're in the 1800s in America and the industrial age or whatever, you know, who knows? um But I love that like they're they're taking these genres and in this episode specifically they basically adapt animation to live action and I Feel like it they they'd have really great heart. They have really great energy and and they pulled it off really well and So it sounds like when I ask you this question, Trek, marry or kill those old scientists that your answer is those old scientists. Will you marry me? Because
Final Thoughts and Season Reflections
01:21:05
Speaker
come on, this episode is like, oh, it's so good. I told you I had a pit in my stomach after rewatching it several times. I knew it. Let's go. So I feel like I have to marry this, but I'm going to always wonder, did it cheat on me?
01:21:23
Speaker
And I'm never going to know. And I don't know what that means if we're going to. So I'm going to soft marry it like we're already. You don't have to. You don't have to. I'm telling there is a much I enjoyed the episode is pays off what it sets out to do. It's a crossover. That's what we started with. And like you just said, very perfectly, they had to figure out a way to make an animated series transition in a live action in a way that Maintain the integrity of that while not ruining the integrity of the other thing. I think Strange New World spent has spent the entire second season bending its own format. And this was not like an imposition on that. It seemed like they they were building to this more than anything. It was an addition, yeah. We're saying it's a lower-decks episodes more than a Strange New World's episode. yeah ah But all that said, it's an episode of Star Trek.
01:22:17
Speaker
so If I were to recommend Strange New Worlds or Lower Decks to anybody, I would have to recommend this episode to either of them. So I'm not like you're not backing me into it. I'm just saying I'm just I'm told you I'm marrying it with and I'm going to always wonder. No, no, no. It's hot. like I'm attracted to it. It's got great qualities in it. Brian, I'm just so afraid for this marriage. Okay. Well, I'm sitting... Yeah, you're sitting in... I'm afraid for your marriage. I have full confidence in this marriage. Oh, okay. Well, people are letting up my wedding agreement. I give it three years. you know i mean i'm marrying it and but but i'm marrying it we'll see in 10 years time if it ages or whatever but like that's not what this show is about this is a stamp of canon this is legally binding oh god it is in the list it's only our second married episode of strange new worlds the other one probably not a good sign for strange new worlds for
01:23:17
Speaker
Our two ah married Strange New Worlds episodes are essentially farce episodes. The last one was Spock-a-muck from season one, where Spock and to bring switch bodies. But that one had like an emotional story that it was trying to tell and like the most wacky way possible. And then this one, I don't think it was trying to tell so much. I think it was saying we have to try to tell an emotional story. But it seems like that it was trying to simply honor Star Trek, but also show what was great about both the shows that were involved, which are in and of themselves. This is the part I struggle with with both shows.
01:24:00
Speaker
is that they are both at all times trying to honor Star Trek and sometimes I think they don't delve into what makes them great. Interesting. On the other hand, I think this is a great episode of Lower Decks because I think it actually digs into what's great about Lower Decks. Yeah. Yeah. and so Marry it is. Will it cheat on me? I don't know. It's just like, it feels like you got a shotgun behind your back and you got the bride pregnant. like i Well, I mean, no, no, no, no. Got too excited.
01:24:33
Speaker
you
01:24:36
Speaker
Whereas you've been very clear about your intentions from the very beginning. Very clear. I am in this episode. Sorry. Well, then that would just be a trick, Katie. What are you what are you saying? That we're going to have a great wedding night is what we're. As a big swing, does it connect? That's the sub question I've been asking this entire run. Yeah, sure.
01:25:03
Speaker
I mean, you totally agree it's a big swing that connects. I think it's a big swing that connects. I agree. I mean, they don't go anywhere. Like the the the other two episodes you mentioned trials and tribulations and um flashback is literally the name of the Voyager episode. Both of those had a ticking clock and one of them, Tuvok, is dying. So they have to like do a mind meld to travel back in time. And then ah someone travels back in time and puts a bomb and a triple to kill Captain Kirk. That's ridiculous. There's no ticking clock for this one. I think that's actually the one big negative of like, what is the point of this episode? Like, what is the dramatic reason for it to exist? And I think both shows have constantly said, just go with it. They exist because they're Star Trek. right And so for an hour, ah
01:25:52
Speaker
This is a good time to spend doing Star Trek stuff. So I agree. Katie, where can people listen to you? Where can they find you if they're in Los Angeles area or if they have a Netflix account? Oh, well, um you can always find me at my address is no. um You can always find me. Yes. Yeah. yeah As opposed to no. You can always find me at at L Sassy Pants, E L S A S S Y P N T S sometimes with a Z depending on the social media. um You can also listen to my podcast, Napping Through a Happy Hour podcast, which is on ah anywhere you get your podcasts and the GeekScape network. um You can see me almost every other Wednesday performing with Nothing Burger at the Pack Theater. but Please hop on your Netflix accounts and watch the movie Unfrosted. You will likely not see me. You may see me in the very, very, very end dancing with Hugh Grant.
01:26:48
Speaker
But you might not. um But you should definitely see Unfrosted. It's a great movie. um Tons of fun people in that. and yeah It's the Jerry Seinfeld Pop-Tarts movie. It is. yeah and i Just to be clear. so but I'm a six foot tall girl in a chicken costume. so And don't forget that we have closed the the book on season one of Lower Decks. You can listen to that one. ah Next week, Kristin will be back and we're going to honor or celebrate the 35th anniversary of the time Dr. Pulaski got really old, really fast, thanks to some weird genetic engineering done to some children by their helicopter parents. It's a natural selection from TNG. g
01:27:31
Speaker
If you get a chance, if you're so inclined, like and review us or rate us wherever you listen to the show. ah We're at Trek Mary K Pod on social media, Trek Mary Kill Pod on the web. And so Katie, it's been great having you back for Strange New Worlds for a regular live action episode. ah But I just got to tell you, it's been a blast having you on the season of Trek Mary Kill. It's kind of like your season finale um or series finale. We'll find out. We'll see you all this summer. god It's been great talking Trek with you. Thanks again for being here and thanks out there for listening. Until next week, TMK out.