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TNG: "Tapestry" (s6e15)
2 Plays37 seconds ago
PICARD WORKS BLUE. It's the death of Jean-Luc Picard as we kick off The Captain is DEAD! month on the show. Shot through the heart and **Q** is to blame? Bryan and Kristen examine this critical episode to determine if it's a TREK, MARRY, or KILL.
The grades begin at (29:44).
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Preview of 'Tapestry'
00:00:00
Speaker
Next on Trek, Mary, Kill. Nausicaan's regret. Cue. Engage. Struck by a lethal blow. he's in cardiac arrest. With little hope for survival, Picard journeys to the other side.
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to the afterlife, Sean. Welcome. <unk> dead Now Q offers him man's ultimate desire to change his own destiny. But will he alter the past to stay alive?
00:00:25
Speaker
i gave you something most mortals never experience. Or die on the operating table next time on Star Trek The Next Generation.
00:00:38
Speaker
Trek, marry, kill.
Podcast Hosts Introduction and Theme Discussion
00:00:45
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. I'm Kristen. Welcome to Trek, Mary, a podcast that believes good and bad episodes of Star Trek are static and rigid concepts. ah Last week, we concluded our look back at Star Trek Picard.
00:00:57
Speaker
Five years after it premiered and in the finale of that one, Jean-Luc Picard shed his mortal coil, only to be resurrected in an android body. Immediately. Yeah, not even a moment's hesitation.
00:01:10
Speaker
No. No time to mourn. No time to mourn whatsoever. Should we make this new body young and hot? oh No! No! No. No. Anyway, but that death inspired a new theme month that begins this week.
00:01:23
Speaker
Our theme this month is The Captain is Dead!
Summary of 'Tapestry' Episode
00:01:30
Speaker
We're going to kick it off with Tapestry, which is the 15th episode of Star Trek The Next Generation's sixth season that premiered in syndication February 15th, 1993, written by Ronald E. Moore, directed by Les Landau. Memory Alpha's description.
00:01:45
Speaker
After being attacked on an away mission, Picard dies and meets Q in the afterlife, who offers him the chance to change a crucial moment in his history and prevent the mistakes he made in his youth.
00:01:56
Speaker
Kristen, you remember the first time you saw this episode? I don't specifically remember, but it would have probably been in second run syndication. There's definitely a first run for me after, you know, i was already a Star Trek fan watching it every week.
00:02:09
Speaker
um What memory of Alpha is not telling us is Picard has the chance to dodge getting stabbed in the heart by Nausicaan, which was established in the second season episode, Samaritan Snare.
00:02:21
Speaker
the episode that introduced us to the Paklids, who for a while there was like one of the main villains of Star Trek Lower Decks. ah But that was a story he told and Ron Moore ah really wanted to talk about that one.
00:02:35
Speaker
um We'll talk a little bit more about the development of this episode, which harkens back to It's a Wonderful Life, a movie I've never seen before.
Comparison to 'It's a Wonderful Life'
00:02:43
Speaker
That is really shocking to me because at this point, in my opinion, of It's a Wonderful Life is not a theatrical film. It's a television show because it is it has only known success.
00:02:55
Speaker
as played on television. It was not a success in the box office. It was not critically acclaimed. It only became beloved and successful and a moneymaker once it became, it entered the public domain and was be able to be played on any channel for free.
Discussion on Classic Films and 'Freaks'
00:03:15
Speaker
And so it's been played on television so many times. I'm shocked that you haven't like seen at least a little bit of it. I've dodged it, mainly for the black and white aspect of it. Oh, yeah. It is pretty boring.
00:03:30
Speaker
Like, in terms... It is unfortunately...
00:03:35
Speaker
and The problem is like Frank Capra films of that nature are so cliche now because we've seen all that stuff recycled so many times that it is very like it's very sappy. It's
Personal Sliding Doors Moments
00:03:49
Speaker
like, oh boy, here we go.
00:03:52
Speaker
you know It's not that I'm against old movies or black and white movies now. ah Last year I saw a movie that hadn't been screened in a long time. from the ninety from 1930 called the... Pre-Code movie. what Yes, exactly. What was it?
00:04:10
Speaker
man. What was it called? Do you know who was in it? No. Hold on. uh general plot ah i have it's all gone out of my head oh the general plot is in alaska there are there's like claim jumpers and like the law has come in who's the star of high noon gary cooper so this is a gary cooper oh yeah i have not so i don't think i've seen this movie if it takes place in alaska Yeah, 1930 Gary Cooper. It wasn't like... and there's a think it's a James Cagney movie that I was on a... Spoilers!
00:04:41
Speaker
I was on a chain prison chain gang or whatever. like i think that's actually... um No, the the spoilers. So I've okay, which was a Tarantino was touting it as like a rare screening because there was only a ah print available through the Library of Congress.
Brian's Move to Los Angeles
00:04:58
Speaker
So I was pretty sure I have never seen that movie. So that's one you've seen I haven't seen. Wow. And it was great. well It was pretty cool. But i'm what I'm getting is like, so I'm not against black and white movies. I've gotten over that. I've aged out of it. I'll let you borrow some of my um pre-code movies.
00:05:17
Speaker
Black and white movies. Another great film that I recommend to everybody, especially since it's only like an hour long, is the Todd Browning film Freaks from 1932. And that is the... and that is the foundational piece of all like the carny lore that we see in all these other movies since i mean i mean yes we laugh now but it's like it humanizes it they're freaks right and they're being abused and and used and uh it's about like one freak one of the the little people want aspiring to like
00:05:49
Speaker
be with or a starlet who's like a normal size person and all this stuff. And, that's where you get the one of us, one of us. Oh no, for real. Oh wow. It's an amazing movie. It's an, it's only an hour long and, and I highly recommend it.
00:06:05
Speaker
So, I mean, I guess I'll have to check out. Yeah. So great thing about pre-code movies, which is movies that are from, uh, before, I think it's 1934.
Exploration of Pre-Code Films
00:06:15
Speaker
um They are generally about 75 minutes long. There's sometimes like a nip slip or some nudity and sex and bad stuff that you're not like amoral stuff.
00:06:28
Speaker
Like well heroin addicts and stuff like that. Well, now people might be against that. The Puritanes might yeah not. Yeah. like Yeah. I mean, you don't like see full frontal male nudity, but they didn't edit.
00:06:43
Speaker
Like no one's wearing a bra and there's no real...
Changes to 'Tapestry' Script
00:06:47
Speaker
uh, you know, effort to hide anything. There's like a classic modesty, not like a puritanical modesty going on.
00:06:55
Speaker
It's kind of what I can remember from freaks. It's not like religious. like, Oh, it's just polite to be dressed. theses like
00:07:03
Speaker
Uh, well, in addition to it's a wonderful life, this episode i'll also kind of is like sliding doors. Right. Yeah. Oh, did you want me to give a very quick rundown of it's wonderful life?
00:07:14
Speaker
Okay. Have you seen a Christmas Carol? ah Yes. Right. So in a Christmas Carol, all the ghosts of Christmas past, present, future come and show Scrooge what a, what a horrible person he is and like how much, how better life will be without him.
00:07:31
Speaker
It's the opposite. And it's a wonderful life. It's an angel who comes and tells, um, Jimmy's George. George the name the character. Jimmy Stewart's character. Um, how horrible life in this town would be without him.
00:07:44
Speaker
Cause he's about to jump off a bridge and kill himself. That I knew. Yes. Okay. Uh, all right. And, but also sliding doors. That is a movie I turned off.
Challenges with Script Submissions
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah. in And my own personal Brian lore I turned off because I did not know that Gwyneth Paltrow was going to go for it with the British accent. Oh, that was a running joke back then. Like it's on Saturday Night Live and everything. I did not know that that's what it was. I thought it was Shakespeare in Love that that was what it was from. And I was like, I don't remember it being an issue in Shakespeare in Love. And Emma.
00:08:19
Speaker
i didn't I didn't see Emma, but I remember Shakespeare Love being like, it didn't bother me. But then in Sliding Doors, I'm like, what is she doing? but it' like Yeah, it is a nondescript British accent, but not the kind that you'd get, say, from like attending the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts or anything like that, like, or or Patrick Stewart's accent, for instance, like that is invented.
00:08:42
Speaker
I also turned on pretty recently, like within the last six years. And it's like, I know what Gwyneth Paltrow sounds like. ah So I was not picking up what she was putting down there.
00:08:53
Speaker
But so this episode kind of raises the question, I think why it resonates, because this is a very popular episode, ah is that. You know, I'm sure there are times where you wish you could have turned left when you turned right and all that stuff. ah Any any ah that you feel comfortable sharing any big sliding doors moments? ah Should we say what sliding doors, what the plot is, I guess? Oh, sure. Yes. Go ahead. So in sliding doors, um Gwyneth Paltrow's character misses like she doesn't catch a train. The doors close and.
00:09:24
Speaker
her life and
Casting and Continuity in 'Tapestry'
00:09:25
Speaker
then we get to see the two versions of her life after that. And one is if she caught the train, I think she like finds her boyfriend in bed with somebody or whatever. Yes, yes. Something like that. And then the other one she doesn't.
00:09:37
Speaker
And like, I guess the moral of this, then she ends up having like dark hair later. So you can tell which timeline is which because, know, we're dumb. And I think, I think it ends with like, of course it's better. She caught her cheating boyfriend or something. I don't i think one of them ends up in the hospital. I don't know. I don't, it's been a really long time since I watched that movie.
00:09:58
Speaker
But basically the premise is if you had caught the train, how your life would be different or whatever, like ah a moment that is different, which is just like this episode where Picard gets stabbed in the heart But if he avoids it, what what would his life have been?
Q's Appearances and Character Dynamics
00:10:15
Speaker
And um I mean, I've certainly i have positive and negative moments of of, you know, decisions I've made going what would have happened. And I wonder in like a regretful way. But there are definitely the ones that immediately come to mind are the ones where I'm like, thank goodness I didn't do blank.
00:10:31
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Like i have far more positive. um I'm certainly not like totally pleased with where I am in my life, but I'm also like, it could be a lot worse.
00:10:44
Speaker
And certainly where I'm at. If there's one thing I know for sure, it can always get worse. That's right. and And knowing in which ways it could be worse is somehow more.
00:10:57
Speaker
um I don't know. It's not like there's always the uncertainty. Well, I don't know what I don't know. But the the things I don't regret, I'm very happy with that. it's worked out you know usually that comes down to relationships but also like job opportunities or situations that you get out of or you have the chance to stick with something or leave you know those are all kind of things where it's like yeah for sure um i guess i can't really talk about the main one that i think about a lot of like thank goodness i have one i have one that i can share and one that
00:11:33
Speaker
Probably ah not appropriate for the podcast. Right. Maybe everyone has one of those. Child. For our kid listeners or whatever. Mm-hmm. um so I have one, i mean I have lots of like, oh, if I had done X, Y, Z differently or whatever. and but it's not like this was the one moment that I chose to do something or whatever.
00:11:56
Speaker
Um, like for instance, I always wonder like how my life would be different if I just like not gone to art school and went to like a real college, but I'll never know. Um, but that's like, I would have had to like try harder in high school.
00:12:11
Speaker
And like other things. And I just wasn't trying hard. So I'd have to go way back. Like, it's like, yeah like, just like I said, it wasn't like I said, i threw my application in the trash or whatever.
00:12:23
Speaker
to you know, Harvard and now I'll never know or something. But OK, so the one I i can share is um my car was stolen when i was like 18, right? by like a friend of mine. And I really wish I just stayed home that day.
00:12:39
Speaker
oh wow. I wish I would just been like, you know what? I changed my mind. I'm not coming out to hang out or whatever. You're on your own. Yeah. that's I'm just at home. I like, honestly, and I had like no lawn. i had like no clean pants and everything. So I was wearing like the dumbest stuff.
00:12:55
Speaker
And I should have been like, you know, I got a lot of laundry to do. I'm just going to stay home.
Picard's Character Exploration and Key Scenes
00:12:59
Speaker
Like there was no reason for me. Like it was, yeah, I should just stay at home. i I really like that you ah I like that you remembered what you were wearing as part of the story. That was part of the the story because i looked ridiculous and I had no way to get home.
00:13:20
Speaker
And like everybody like like I had to like pretend to be serious wearing like these horrible pants.
00:13:30
Speaker
What do the pants used to say? It used to have like gushy or like sticky. Oh, no, no. It wasn't anything like that. No, it was like raver pants or something. Okay. All right. Which was bad enough. lots Lots of navel showing. Got it. Literally like, yeah. Literally the only pair of pants I had available to wear because all my clothes are dirty. and I was like, oh, this looks stupid. But I was like, whatever. I'm just going to like...
00:13:52
Speaker
you know, go see some friends real quick and come home. no one's to see me. No, everyone saw me, including the cops. It was horrible. And anyway, it was such a hassle and like such a like cataclysmic thing for an 18 year old to go through that. I really wish I had just stayed home.
00:14:10
Speaker
The only one I can share is moving down to LA was a choice that I did. I didn't do it quite impulsively, but along the lines of like, if I'm going to do it, it has to be right now.
00:14:24
Speaker
And the the conditions were not like, you're all set up. It was kind of like I had half of a plan. I had a part of a plan. And, and once the opportunity presented itself, I really had like 30 days to figure it out. And,
00:14:38
Speaker
and i just Was it like someone you knew needed a roommate or something? It was exactly that. It was actually someone I knew and then someone they knew who I kind of knew. Like just 2%.
00:14:51
Speaker
They had a sublet that they were willing to rent out to run out because they were leaving UCLA. So that was basically it. It was like, what am I going to do with this? Until then, I don't know. I'm going to get down there with x amount of money.
00:15:05
Speaker
And, you know, at that point, rent was like, you know, it was... I don't remember. I think my share of the rent was like 600. It was something ridiculously small.
00:15:16
Speaker
and At one point, i might the share of my rent in West LA was like $350 a month. Oh, wow. So eventually, actually, maybe my next place after that place was $485 plus then utilities, but it was also in West LA. It was like farther west.
00:15:31
Speaker
And it was just like, that's cool too. And I i miss it so I had a and a studio after that very briefly for about a year, and I think it was like under $800. Yeah, that sounds about right.
00:15:43
Speaker
Yeah, and it was nice. I mean, it was you know it was fine. and I liked more was where I lived. But that was the main thing. And then if I don't come down here, i don't a lot of things don't fall into place. And like I said, maybe I'm not totally happy with career-wise where things are at the moment, but...
00:15:59
Speaker
I am pleased with like where I'm at having made that decision. So I've, I don't think I've ever had a moment of regret coming down to LA. Um, i'm and I'm from California. So I, the idea of leaving California is also a weird thought to me.
00:16:13
Speaker
That just doesn't. move It would have to be a compelling reason. i That's exactly right. ah Like i worked with somebody who got like a really crazy job offer um in Las Vegas and like another coworker had already left to go work at this place. And so he was like, I'm going to leave because it's so much money. And also it's not that far and I could buy a house like outright.
00:16:44
Speaker
yeah i was like yeah okay yeah yeah uh having spent some time there not in las vegas but what is
Themes of Regret and Personal Choices
00:16:51
Speaker
the surrounding area is it henderson yeah that would have to be pretty enticing yeah it was a lot of money though yeah that's what i'm saying like but yeah the man and like at the time not so much now but at the time the money would have gone really far yeah Compared to like, geez, he was not making very much job. I'm going to need at 300,000 to do that.
00:17:15
Speaker
like Really? To move to Las Vegas? Yeah. That's, that's what I'm thinking. um Even in like 2010 or whatever. no. I'm talking about now. three man Okay.
00:17:25
Speaker
I think in 2010, I'd still be like 100, 150. That'd probably still be. Yeah. i was more than that. I think. Yeah. We'll see. And i was like, look, and he had like no like family to keep him anywhere. So it was just, absolutely I'm going.
00:17:38
Speaker
All right, let's talk about tapestry some more here. This episode was originally called, to your point about a Christmas carol, a Q carol. Yeah. I mean, this could have been a Christmas episode, but... yes It involved Q leading Picard through several quote unquote mistakes in his life.
00:17:56
Speaker
ah In addition to the stabbing, there was a childhood event in France, some event on the Stargazer, which might have involved Dr. Crusher's husband, Jack. But Michael Piller, the showrunner at the time, was not entirely pleased with the premise.
00:18:09
Speaker
Ron Moore explained he thought it was pointless. Here are some scenes from your life. Basically. It didn't have the right resonance. So I went back and tried to focus in on one incident to make it a little more meaningful. Good call. Michael Piller.
00:18:21
Speaker
Uh, Moore chose the stabbing incident because it had always intrigued him. Um, how did like How does that story comport with or match the Picard we know today? Obviously, it doesn't.
00:18:33
Speaker
Right. So he was like trying to figure out well what changed in Picard's life. um So that was interesting. It's also a good this is his first chance writing a Q episode. He was really excited by that.
00:18:44
Speaker
This concept of then Picard going into this white light and it being Q, they were like, We're not sure who came up with that idea. And it turns out it was ah after receiving a letter from a man named James Mooring, he basically wrote them saying, hey, I pitched that.
00:19:03
Speaker
Like this exact setup. And this is what happens when you have an open submission policy for fans and they either send scripts or usually from those. That is why most people will
Star Trek Tropes and Humorous Elements
00:19:15
Speaker
not accept unsolicited submissions.
00:19:18
Speaker
And then what Jerry Taylor said in response was I talked to him, Ron talked to him and they paid him. He was very happy. All he wanted was acknowledgement that it was his idea and we apologize profusely. i hope it restored his faith in our integrity because we would never do anything like that intentionally.
00:19:33
Speaker
I think now because of the shorter seasons, this is like less of an issue. But if you're doing 26 episodes a year, I feel like this is actually still a pretty solid episode. I know the legal, the legality is even harder today and people even are even more litigious now, but I also don't know like how nineties Trek would have survived if not for this.
00:19:55
Speaker
but For people being able to be like, what if so-and-so did like just writing in just to have an open, a wider, brought Like a broadband of ideas, right? Like just to come in as many ideas from as many sources as possible to pick over.
00:20:12
Speaker
Because when you get six, when it's just six people and it's the same six people, you're going to, they're all working for the same showrunner every day, you're going to get tunnel vision. You're going to get.
00:20:22
Speaker
a weird process so just having new people new anything come in to just to even occasionally disrupt that process i think is that was the only way the 90s trek was going to work i think um so they got very lucky that it worked for as long as they needed it to um all right this is the thing i i think you messaged me about when i sent you the rundown so appearing for the first time and by way that just just to prove that i read it yeah that's the time that's right yeah Appearing for the first time in Star Trek was JC Brandy as Marta Botanides.
00:20:56
Speaker
She was 17 years old. Unbelievable. She was nervous and intimidated to work with Patrick Stewart, obviously, who was 52 at the time. She said that everyone in the cast and crew made her feel welcome. There were concerns when she first arrived on set for costume fitting as she looked quite young.
00:21:13
Speaker
And Stewart was worried about the age difference on screen. This is all coming from memory alpha. Director Les Landau requested that the hair and makeup on Brandy should make her look older. Brandy said that this worked nicely, but they still downplayed the sex.
00:21:26
Speaker
They still have a very intense and intimate moment together, though. i know. She was pleased with her scenes with Stuart as they managed to capture a, quote, nervousness and innocence in Picard and Patenity's relationship.
00:21:40
Speaker
Patenity was also the captain of Chris Rios' captain, as mentioned in the Picard episode Broken Pieces. this is closing the loop on that. um Yeah, interesting. She comes from a showbiz family.
00:21:52
Speaker
i was like, how did someone born in the UK come to l L.A. and is acting in a scene like this at 17? Is there is there even something more potentially darker going on here? it's like, no, she comes from a showbiz family.
00:22:03
Speaker
him This reminds me of um Scarlett Johansson being 17 and lost in translation. Oh, yes.
Acting and Scene Execution
00:22:10
Speaker
Oh, wow. She plays a married woman. Yeah. Yes, that's absolutely right.
00:22:14
Speaker
And like, I think to this day, the um cover of the, at least the soundtrack is like, you can see her butt through panties. Well, it's the first shot of the movie. Yeah.
00:22:26
Speaker
yeah Yeah. So JC Brandy now. hmm. By the way, not a good stage name. I'm going to be serious. Like, not good. It sounds like JCPenney.
00:22:39
Speaker
maybe Maybe that was her intention. They don't have JCPenney in the UK, so she just wasn't aware. The thing is, her mother was a Las Vegas showgirl, and her brother is a makeup artist in Hollywood already.
00:22:52
Speaker
So she was somehow born in the UK and then obviously came back and lived in the States. That's my interpretation there. Because she doesn't have a British accent. She wasn't hiding one. like That's too good.
00:23:03
Speaker
So she was somehow born there and lost her. She's 17-year-old, yeah. Which is like the inverse of Gillian Anderson. I don't know. Anyway, um, anyway, JC Brandy actress, songwriter, acting coach, hypnotherapist as of her current, uh, webpage. That was a triple threat. Quadruple threat. Quadruple threat. Uh huh. Why hypnotherapy? We all want to live our best life to finally be free of anxieties, free of fear.
00:23:27
Speaker
I have made it my mission to help you overcome your blocks so that you can live your purpose. So there you go. The cityscape from Marta's quarters. So they're all stationed on these quarters. which are visible at the end of act three. I think this is the makeout part.
00:23:41
Speaker
Remember the night skyline behind them? That was reused from the city of domes created for the Logan's run movie. That's, I just thought that was interesting. I actually like, I have seen Logan's run and I like, Oh, okay. Yeah.
00:23:56
Speaker
ah More revealed that at one point the Enterprise captain in Picard's future was to have been Edward Jellicoe. He changes his Thomas Halloway. Maybe in a convention it's come out who that is a reference to or who they're doing that name for because it's like the most random name ever.
00:24:13
Speaker
so yeah I remember as a kid watching this being kind of excited, being like, who could the captain be? Is it Riker? and then they're like, Thomas Alloway. i'm like, who? What? Yeah. Who's never on screen.
00:24:24
Speaker
That's right. A wet fart. What? The context of the fight was changed from Samaritan's Snare. And Samaritan's Snare, Picard's encounter with the Nausikens was a first time event as they were spoiling for confrontation.
00:24:37
Speaker
Everyone in the group gives them a wide berth, except Picard, who initiates the fight by insulting the Nausikens, In Tapestry, the encounter is an act of revenge. ah This episode marks the first on screen appearance of the Nausikens.
00:24:49
Speaker
ah Q appeared the previous week on Star Trek Deep Space Nine's Q-List. So season one of Deep Space Nine. And in that episode, Q briefly mentions that he maybe, quote, should pay Picard a visit.
00:25:02
Speaker
So little synchronicity there for the productions. In one scene, ah this is nerd stuff. Okay. Yeah. At this recreation as opposed to the rest. Everything else Star Trek. great So in the in the recreation facility where they're playing Domjot, there's you can see a Soleil and an Antikin together in the crowd.
00:25:25
Speaker
These are are the aliens from the first season episode Lonely Among Us. They were deadly enemies. They couldn't even like be on the same part of the ship. Otherwise, they'd kill each other. And that this is supposed to have taken place before that episode. So them being together is technically an error of continuity unless you come up with an elaborate backstory.
00:25:44
Speaker
ah But also... These were the Romeo and Juliet of their of their races. You weren't supposed... It's... it's ah
00:25:56
Speaker
it's It's an illicit affair. You just did whole fanfic. Great. Yeah, that's it. So stop writing letters about it. That's right. But this just goes to show like people were kind of disregarding even after in season three and beyond, disregarding the first two seasons of TNG.
00:26:13
Speaker
Because Ron Moore made a note for this scene saying, well, actually, it's not true. Ron Moore made a note for the scene, though, saying like, no, don't put Ferengi in the background here randomly, because in this timeline, we haven't yet met the Ferengi.
00:26:29
Speaker
So like he was warning production, like, remember, we haven't met the Frankie yet. So then just they had the Sele and Antikin head pieces. Right. And they're like, well'll use those random ones for getting also that.
00:26:40
Speaker
but but But like you said, Romeo and Juliet, you just saved it. So Memory Alpha, you need to update it. You could say speculatively. Yeah, me. but yeah Please cite me correctly.
00:26:51
Speaker
ah This is one of only five TNG episodes that doesn't have a star date. I did not know that. This is like, yeah, me neither. ah The others are from TNG g are symbiosis, first contact liaisons and sub Rosa.
00:27:04
Speaker
Well, liaisons, I hate. I think that's one of the worst episodes. And then sub Rosa. Yeah. Sub Rosa did not need a start. but No, it didn't. It could, it takes place in your heart at any time. It had a smoke date. And you' your genitalia, apparently. That's right.
00:27:21
Speaker
ah Ron Moore remarked, I love Tapestry. And while Michael and I had several arguments over it, he was the executive producer and could have simply forced me to do it differently. To his credit, Michael let me do the show pretty much as I wanted to.
00:27:33
Speaker
I still think it's one of the best things I wrote and one of TNG's finest episodes. Michael Piller, though, was not as enthusiastic. I like your citation on this, though. it was from an AOL chat in 1997. That chat, by the way, is the basis for a lot of memory alpha.
00:27:49
Speaker
It was a long-ranging conversation. He basically did an original AMA. But you were not in that chat. No, no, no. because I have to say, i was in a lot of AOL chats of the of these of this kind. Not for Star Trek at the time, but there was a lot of them.
00:28:06
Speaker
Michael Piller said, I wasn't much a fan of the show. I thought it was a wonderful premise. I love the pitch of Picard dying and having the white light experience and reaching out to the hand and its cue. It's your worst nightmare come true.
00:28:17
Speaker
I found that from the beginning, my greatest fear was that it would be It's a Wonderful Life. When a series gets tired, they do. It's a wonderful life. Yeah, I don't think... I don't think we ever solved my problems with it in terms of getting a fresh slant.
00:28:30
Speaker
I felt that it was one of those Christmas type episodes with the direction and the performance were sort of flat. Some of the scenes seemed to be very talky to me. It does not have the power and the impact on me that it seems to have had on other people.
00:28:42
Speaker
I'm delighted that it was a meaningful experience for a lot of people and made them think about their own lives because that's what Star Trek is trying to do. They should accept themselves rather than wish they had done something else. so He said this in Captain's Logs, the Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages.
00:28:56
Speaker
I'm saying the full quote because he is the showrunner, and I understand that some people believe in death of the author, but I don't. Especially when they're giving a candid response to the work.
00:29:11
Speaker
And i want that to kind of hang in the air because this is one of the most often cited you have to watch this episode. It's like top 10s, top 15 Star Trek.
00:29:23
Speaker
The Next Generation. Some people think it's one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever. And I came into this beyond the Captain is Dead month theme being like, I think what will it survive? Check Mary kills grades.
00:29:36
Speaker
What we're all ah net out after we go through it. So should we get into the grades? Yes.
00:29:44
Speaker
All right. Great scenes. All right, think i like four or five. Okay, maybe more. Okay, so my first great scene, though, is after Jean-Luc has gone to the white light and it's cute, and then in the background is the young Jean-Luc fighting two dudes who, at first glance, look like Ron Perlman's Beast character from the network television Beauty and the Beast show.
00:30:08
Speaker
Great call. Absolutely. But then, as it went on, it they kind of look like they're in like a Kiss cover band.
00:30:16
Speaker
It doesn't really know. It's like what it's trying to be both. It's like they got the wig from the kiss cover band and the platform shoes. But the face was more of the beauty beauty and the beast.
00:30:28
Speaker
And their faces, the Nausicaan makeup kind of passes the muster at a glance. Yeah, at a glance. Yeah. if you When they're fighting. Yes. If you stare at it long enough, which is like three seconds.
00:30:40
Speaker
yeah like Once they get their close up, it's like, whoa. Yeah. It looks like a hockey mask. Yeah. It's been decorated like a Halloween style. And the separation from the eyeballs, like around the eyes, is like it's clear like that is a mask.
00:30:55
Speaker
It's like very loose on their faces so that their mouths can talk. um Yeah, that I agree with you. That's that's ah one very long scene, right? The first act is basically just all in that white space with these little vignettes. He talks to his dad. He hears all the dead people, you know, the people he's condemned.
00:31:13
Speaker
He sees himself get stabbed and all that stuff. I like the teaser, though. Because like the setup of like, okay, Picard's been shot and then he dies and then up it's Q. Even though we can see it's Q the whole time, still think it's like, no, that's a good teaser to have there.
00:31:31
Speaker
Anyway. Go ahead. i was And then like we see, then Jean-Luc gets put back to his younger days and he immediately gets slapped in the face.
00:31:45
Speaker
And Q's why'd you do that? And he has to explain the whole thing. Like, just Q making Jean-Luc explain embarrassing shit that happened to him is it's funny to me.
00:32:00
Speaker
um And then later, he gets a drink thrown in his face for basically calling the other lady old. And she was old. Like, that one was too old to be going out with like, a 21-year-old guy. Yeah.
00:32:13
Speaker
guy yeah he calls her handsome and she's like, that is what's so strange about. it reminds me of a Spock.
00:32:25
Speaker
And that lady is like, guess how old I am? So that's that's interesting because I like once once the flashbacks happen or once he jumps back in time, like for some reason, even on all these rewatches all these years later, it after the a moment after that slap and we see the old uniforms and we get the quantum leap premise where he's like everyone to everyone else, you look like your younger self.
00:32:54
Speaker
um you know basically a hot tub time machine yeah exactly i i it's not a lost interest it's just like for me that there was not as much juice because it's kind of like well we know what's gonna happen so what like why are we spending so much time in this moment and i think these micro relationships with the teneties and the other guy carrie gary cory cory thank you cory People still name their kid Corey that far in the future. That's interesting. Well, it's like Carlton or Carl. Like it's a full name and it's a short name. Oh, okay. Like they call Jean-Luc Johnny.
00:33:31
Speaker
um Which is also funny. Yeah. I don't know, but I thought the dialogue though in that that first Heavenlys scene was really great. um And then, and to your point, when he's already transformed, ah I mean, it's interesting, but yeah, what else do you have for great scenes? Because after the first act, where he's, you know, when we slap and then we go to the act out, all of that point, I'm into it. But I don't have a great scene for a while after that. Oh, I liked a cu showing up with the flowers.
00:34:03
Speaker
Well, sure, I liked that moment. That was great. And then um Marta and Jean-Luc, like it fades to black and we're, you know, and obviously they had sex and it's the morning and then it turned, then Jean-Luc assumes he's still in bed Marta, but it's actually yeah Q. And then he pulls up this covers to cover his chest, which is really funny.
00:34:24
Speaker
yeah these are all like nice moments that i like but in terms of like what's the scene ultimately about i'm like but this is fine maybe maybe the standard of great scenes has always been too high and like we should do like the animated up because the animated yeah for me it's like moments i enjoyed this yeah yeah is it like you know something out of uh lawrence of arabia no
00:34:50
Speaker
But that's fine. I also have ah when Jean-Luc asked for a performance review from Riker and Counselor Toy. oh yeah. I have this. Ten forward. yes And then like, no, ah tell me what is. And they're like, oh boy, you don't want to this.
00:35:05
Speaker
Right. It's Jean-Luc, right? He's like, what have i told you but if I told you I wanted to be so much more? And Troy's like, isn't that your problem? You've always had lofty goals, but never been able to to do it to what's needed to attain them.
00:35:20
Speaker
Yeah, I had that, but I had the whole once he's Lieutenant Picard, I put what when he's suddenly on the bridge and disoriented and he's in that blue uniform, which is so like disorienting to everybody.
00:35:33
Speaker
ah That scene, i think in they got the Captain Thomas Holloway, whatever. And then the scene with Riker and Troy, I thought those were those are great scenes because Patrick Stewart through this whole episode is really performing. But in this moment, he's as disoriented as the audience is.
00:35:49
Speaker
And even just a little tidbit of Geordi being like, where are those reports? Yes.
00:35:56
Speaker
Like, oh, I'm coming, sir. i have a couple of other great scenes. Do you have any more? Hmm.
00:36:04
Speaker
um My next one that was like and towards the end or at like the second. all there's not much left after that. After he has that meeting with Riker and Troi's in the turbo lift being like, ha ha you've made your point. And then when it gets out of the turbo lift, he's back in the white light. Yeah. That's my next one. That's what basically I'm just being like, I would rather be dead.
00:36:26
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And then he gets put back in the moment where he has to fight the Nausikens or not. And he doesn't get stabbed. And then i fucking love when he is stabbed and laughing.
00:36:39
Speaker
And then he's on the bio bed. It match cuts to him laughing on the bio bed. And i don't know what it is. ah There was an article in Star Trek dot com and I already forget the the writer and I apologize, but she wrote about how watching this episode after her dad died, remember, reminded her of her dad did not remind me of my dad. But I've mentioned this many times after my dad died.
00:37:02
Speaker
Patrick Stewart or Captain Picard was like a role model and our mutual friend has called him space dad. And so there's something very happy. You're happy for him, but also like he's okay at the same time. Right. He's not dead.
00:37:17
Speaker
um So I thought, I thought it was really nice. It was a nice journey for Picard. I think, well, I like where the episode ends up. And then I actually really liked the scene with Picard and Riker at the end.
00:37:29
Speaker
I didn't as a child because i thought it was corny. Remember, I didn't like Riker. it's like yeah. So I think that your problem is that you don't understand that Commander Riker... not a serious person.
00:37:43
Speaker
No, he is responsible for many a sexual awakening many young women and girls. So for you, I understand. But like I don't know if you've ever had like a
00:37:57
Speaker
Anyone who is attracted to men on this podcast has been like, yeah, yeah, hate that guy. but I watched as a preteen. No. Wait, i'm I'm losing your point.
00:38:10
Speaker
Like, I understand why you didn't. But like, I don't know. i mean, in my household, he was, you know, right reason yeah yeah it was part part of the reason my mom was watching, I think. I think I never...
00:38:21
Speaker
vibed with Jonathan Frake's performances. Like he was so, you put him next to Patrick Stewart and it's kind of not fair. But then once you understand what the character of Riker is, as you get older, it kind of fits.
00:38:34
Speaker
But like, there was always something very forced about Riker, which I think was part of the point. And I don't know, for some reason at the end, there was also something kind of like Picard's been a fuddy duddy kind of this whole episode when he quantum leaps back into himself.
00:38:47
Speaker
He's like a really like, demure guy. He's like, hey hey, we shouldn't do this. he's kind of He's kind of a buzzkill, which is kind of the point too. But the the idea that he and Riker are commiserating, I was not feeling it as a kid.
00:39:01
Speaker
was like, I don't buy this. Picard's just an old man and Riker's annoying. yeah And now I'm older because I appreciate their Frakes and Patrick Stewart's relationship more. And i don't know. I know what Frakes is going for in the scene. I understand it now.
00:39:15
Speaker
And don't know. it It was earned, I think. And I think when I was younger, I didn't understand how it was earned anyway, because it's just like i never thought that Riker cared about Picard that much because the first time he met him, Picard was like, listen, I'm an asshole. You need to make sure I'm not an asshole in front of the crew. By the way, can you dock the ship?
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah. manly He's like from the moment, from the beginning. Anyway. um Yeah. Those are, those are all great scenes. That was what ends the episode there though. The two of them. So best Trek tropes.
00:39:45
Speaker
All right. So I actually didn't write down the line and I should have, but Q just throwing some shade at Dr. Crusher. Like she's catching strays. He calls her like something incompetent or whatever for no reason. No reason.
00:39:58
Speaker
My wife was like, why was Q mean to Dr. Crusher? Yeah, just catching strays just for no reason. yeah Because Q can be a little bitch and that's fine. Like, that's just who he is.
00:40:13
Speaker
We don't um you haven't done a lot of Q episodes. No, haven't. So haven't totally gotten into this. And the I think maybe the last Q episode we did, I was... bitching and complaining because I didn't want there to be series about Jack Crusher versus Q. Oh, right. That's right. Because I was like, no, no, no, no.
00:40:34
Speaker
One of my favorite Vestrach movies. You know what? The strikes killed that one. And I think that's the, i we can all say a thank you for that. The only good thing that came out of it. Star Trek Legacy dying a a strike ridden death. Yes, that's good.
00:40:47
Speaker
ah ah This is a maybe more for me, but I love it so much that whenever I see John Delancey in any context, it makes me say this. And this is the trope.
00:40:59
Speaker
Patrick Stewart's way of saying, Q, what is the meaning of this? Yeah. but There's some variation of that where he's always like, as soon as something weird happens and he sees Q, he's like, Q, what is going on? I demand you tell me what's going on. In this episode, he goes, Q, what is going on?
00:41:15
Speaker
Q, what is the point of creating this fantasy? Q, what is it you want? Q, what have you done? but Just that all those lines. I love that as a trope because it's such a like it's just a funny thing. Picard is not a funny character, but he has a bit whether he knows it or not. Yeah, he doesn't care for this tomfoolery.
00:41:37
Speaker
And I love it so much. So like there is a whenever John Delancey said anything, I'm always like, Q, what is the meaning? Yeah.
00:41:46
Speaker
Anyway, what else do you have? um Jean-Luc Picard's got some issues with his dad. His dad shows up and goes, oh oh god, you're just disappointment, blah blah blah. You know, usual dad stuff.
00:42:00
Speaker
Which they tamp way down by making him James Callis in Star Trek Picard Season 2. And it's not as interesting. um Yeah, well... Mainly because his father is kind of supposed to be French and they keep casting Brits because of Patrick Stewart.
00:42:18
Speaker
So, yeah. yeah that I like my own hypothesis that the British Empire rose again and has conquered France. Because there was a long time when they kind of went back and forth over who gets what land, you know.
00:42:32
Speaker
And that's my explanation.
00:42:39
Speaker
I like the just a reminder that we are. This is a Trek trope that, you know, ah the universe is vast and human beings are not the center of it, which is not like a trope, really. But it's nice whenever Star Trek can kind of do a science fiction, realistic thing, even in this crazy drama.
00:42:57
Speaker
I just like the cue reminding Picard to be blunt. You're not that important. Yes. Yeah, I forgot to write that down, but yeah. um i also have space bar and space billiards.
00:43:09
Speaker
Yeah, good call. Great. Yes. um I like that we see it because how often do we hear about it, right? And so even though the gigantic Nausikens with these little tiny sticks or cues to hit the dumbjot balls looks kind of silly, it's nice to just see a futuristic-y looking game.
00:43:30
Speaker
ah Basically a giant pinball board. Yeah. It doesn't look particularly difficult. No, I was a fan of Picard being called Johnny because I like when he's called JL in Star Trek Picard because we get this in Lower Decks. Sometimes Beckett Mariner is called Becky Mariner, and it's always weird when you hear it because and that's the point. I think that's why it works.
00:43:54
Speaker
It's it's almost like it it tells you this is a different part of their life. So at one point he was called Johnny, you know, and it's just he wanted to be cool guy. JL is like his elder statesman role, but the young, you know, up and comer that he kind of, you know, cotton to like that. She would call him a special name like that all tracks for me. i liked it a lot. So ah just the idea of like people who are familiar with our characters in different way, referring to them as something else, kind of like whenever McCoy calls Captain Kirk Jim or just calling him. jim Yeah, right. Like it's informality.
00:44:27
Speaker
I also have Picard is really great at alienating his friends. He freaking knocks it out of the park. Yeah.
00:44:38
Speaker
He does it in Picard as well. Like it's a thing throughout his life. He's just like good at it. Great call. Like very quickly. I don't think I could alienate my friends that quickly.
00:44:51
Speaker
That's right. In the span of two scenes. Yeah. um This is the best, best Trek trope. I'm sorry to say, if you thought one of yours was the best, this is the best Star Trek fighting style.
00:45:03
Speaker
We got the clasped hands as the fist. A lot of stuff that would have been ineffective in an actual fight. ah Getting thrown around in the bulkheads that would have crushed your skull. Whatever.
00:45:16
Speaker
Just the Star Trek kicky punchy perfect in this episode. The two the bar brawl. i think we we actually have three fights. We have the same fight three times. Yeah.
00:45:29
Speaker
Okay. We do have one shove to prevent the fight, right? we have shove. It causes Corey to go over a table, which is a cool which is actually a really good stunt. It's good fall. So my next one is, oh no, Picard's ego is damaged.
00:45:44
Speaker
I'd rather die than not be captain.
00:45:48
Speaker
And yeah, I have two more. Regrets, Jean-Luc has a few. and then wait... Is Jean-Luc my best and only friend? i think um Q and Jean-Luc Picard have a interesting relationship, but I feel like it might be Q's closest thing to a friend.
00:46:14
Speaker
I think that's a great call. Somehow, like, God's fascination with humans, or like God's fascination with humans. And at the end, Jean-Luc's like, I guess I owe him some gratitude if it's real. Is he my friend?
00:46:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good one. um Worst Trek tropes. Obviously, sickbay should have carpet on the floor because it's so easy to clean up after, you know, someone spills blood on it or whatever.
00:46:42
Speaker
um That was the first thing I noticed when we opened to the whole episode. You're putting the carpets as a worst trick trip? I am because sick it's ridiculous in sickbay. I understood sand.
00:46:54
Speaker
In my mind, I understand it's always carpet. But they like pan up from the carpet. and this like The carpet is very noticeable. Yes. And like, that doesn't... make any sense even i think even the bio bed is like made of carpet yeah has he looks so sickly and dead on that on that bio bed too it's upsetting um i put the captain going on away missions even though the kind of the statement there is like he's he's gone down to this dangerous situation to negotiate right but it's still always like
00:47:27
Speaker
Why is he leaving the ship in a dangerous circumstance? Yeah. um and It's inherently dangerous, which I kind of think leads into this. Somehow they were able to work in a smacking down wharf.
00:47:42
Speaker
trope in here because Worf's on the security detail that that nearly gets Picard killed. And it's like, come on, it's Worf. Like, there's not one episode that happens in the whole episode where it's like, Worf died because he took the shot, right? He jumped in front of the bullet.
00:47:59
Speaker
Like, that's never happened. Or like, Worf lost an arm. Oh, he grew it back, though. He doesn't care. You know what I mean? Like, that never happens. And it's just like, come on, we don't need to smack down Worf.
00:48:11
Speaker
Like if he had been injured, right? Like, and was also unconscious and it's like maybe Picard and, or like Worf's injured and he's coming over and he's like brushing off the nurses.
00:48:23
Speaker
Shit. I, um I almost, I didn't protect the captain. That's not how it was being portrayed at all. Anyway. I don't know. I just love Worf. I do. I love i don't like Worf being disrespected.
00:48:33
Speaker
I know it's hard to watch. Any other worst trick tropes? Yeah. So they have Starbase Earhart. Yeah. Yeah. um i don't I have a problem when they start naming stuff after this poor woman who... Eaten by crabs.
00:48:48
Speaker
Well, like, it's I think ah the current consensus is, like, her husband is the one who pushed her to do flying beyond her ability. And she died. Well, that doesn't, like... It's just a mean personal thing for me.
00:49:05
Speaker
I'm not saying it's, like, actually a... a trope on star trek but it's ironic as all well i guess you could say like naming anything after real people in star trek is like someone who famously never came back from their mission yeah like i understand why you couldn't name it lindbergh because he was like a nazi but yeah i don't know okay um And then I have the Nausikens looking like a bad kiss cover band where he talked about that part. But, you know, what was this orienting to me about the Nausikens as a child and even and into the 21st century was ah they looked a lot like the allegiance alien um whose name was Isak or the Chownoth.
00:49:54
Speaker
He had the horned bottom lip. And he was the one where Picard... Do you remember that episode where Picard is kidnapped with the with a few other aliens and then a duplicate is placed on the Enterprise?
00:50:05
Speaker
And that duplicate is like singing with the crew and making a pass at Dr. Crusher. and like And anyway, but this Esau guy looks... Very much reminds you. It's the same like kind of strong, big...
00:50:18
Speaker
ah horned creature that talks in a very stilted way. And so I was always confused by that. And I kind of think it's a downgrade the way the Gnosticans look compared to the Chalnoth.
00:50:30
Speaker
Anyway. But I like that. You're basically just thrown out with the makeup job looks silly. it's It's just a dumb costume. i don't know. I put Starfleet men only seem to come in two flavors.
00:50:45
Speaker
Fighters are nerds. Yeah. ah Kirk was a nerd who became a fighter. they're all hot under the collar for some reason. Or yeah, stuck in engineering something. But I mean, like it's a binary. Kirk was a nerd. Then he became a fighter.
00:51:00
Speaker
Picard was a fighter who becomes a nerd. Janeway was a nerd. Then she becomes a fighter. Burnham a nerd, then a fighter. ah Archer, though, was an asshole and a jock. fighter the whole way he never changed uh pike is a punk and a fuck boy so i don't know where that falls on there let's just say he's a fighter i think don't know yeah i don't know and then freeman these murder i we've never seen him really fight though that's the problem He's beating the shit out of Yeoman Zack. Remember when it's like a weak defenseless little boy, he'll beat the shit out of him.
00:51:31
Speaker
So ah Freeman, Captain Freeman is kind of a nerd and stays a nerd. And it's like Cisco is the only one who kind of is in between. And I think it's because he's like one of the only parents. Captain Freeman's also a parent.
00:51:45
Speaker
But like, I don't know, it's just weird. It's a worse Trek trope because it kind of then means that your Academy stories, at least in this era, will find out when Starfleet Academy comes out. But you're kind of limiting what you can tell stories about when they're younger crewmen or like cadets, right?
00:52:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's honestly, it's like like Top Gun. Like, you're either this fighter or you're like the nerd guy. i don't know. It's it's very trope-y. Yeah.
00:52:14
Speaker
um Picard's line. I think you're I think you're a very handsome woman. Why is he such a funny daddy in? Why are all these funny? Because he's not 21 years old. that That lady is looking old.
00:52:28
Speaker
Let's talk about that. So do you think that that because the two other women in the episode, the one who slaps someone that throws the drink in his face, they are clearly middle aged women. Yes.
00:52:39
Speaker
Yeah. Which is fucking bizarre. Yeah. And it's like, you couldn't cast a 25 year old? 17 or 38? Yeah, the 17 year old. I don't know how she got that job. i don't know what the hell's. I don't either. I was trying to think about it. so i understand why you would want to cast like close to middle aged women, even though Picard's supposed to 22 or whatever it is, yeah because we see him as in his fifty s It would look ridiculous.
00:53:09
Speaker
too ridiculous but it still sticks out yes but if you're not doing that for the younger one making her look a little bit older where maybe she's playing younger like it's the opposite right i mean they didn't make her look older she did look older you would not know that she was 17 no i'm i'm shocked and she doesn't sound like she's 17 either correct correct But that's why I was like, what's going on here? Is there some seedy underbelly? Because she's carrying herself as someone you know who's older than 17, which is fine, but it's also sometimes if they're... Anyway, that's not the case. um
00:53:45
Speaker
It was just very strange what they what they how they worked all that out, um I think. but Captain Kirk would never get caught dead with such old-looking women. Right. When he was that age.
00:53:57
Speaker
It doesn't... like It's not even like a Mrs. Robinson thing where it's like, ooh. I think if that's the thing. like Make that explicit in a way and it kind of you could track it because apparently his mom... But ah in in Ron Moore's conception of the character, his mom is you know lived a full life and he had a relationship with her.
00:54:17
Speaker
It's not the Picard season 2 version where she you know killed herself and... Jesus. I think there's a reason didn't watch it. Anyway, it's just...
00:54:29
Speaker
I don't know. It's just very strange. Like there, it's weird that there's the super young one and then the other two are much older. i don't know. But I just thought it was a strange in terms of worst Trek trope of like, what happened between the 60s and the 90s? And like, again, it's like a binary.
00:54:44
Speaker
You're either horny, drunk Gene Roddenberry or you're like on the spectrum, asexual Michael Piller. It like it doesn't make sense to me. You know what i mean? Like what?
00:54:55
Speaker
It doesn't. It's just very strange. And so it comes off weird. Like Picard is such a 180 from his younger self. In a way that's almost like... I don't even think Picard as captain in a regular episode of TNG is this... Dumb. Conservative. Yeah.
00:55:13
Speaker
It's so weird. it it just was super weird. Any others? No. Most cosplayable character or moment? Okay, I have two nominations.
00:55:27
Speaker
Either some kind some variation of that of one of the Nausicaan bar fights, or... Picard with that jam stain on his chest.
00:55:37
Speaker
Are you kidding me? That's the exact have. It might be fun to go as Picard impaled through the back. So got knife sticking to your chest. But also when he's on the table, just looks like he got a jam sandwich put on his chest.
00:55:53
Speaker
But either one works. yeah They both look like jam sandwiches. Shot to the heart Picard. yeah and either Either one. yeah I mean, the one without the knife is easier. That's true. That's true.
00:56:05
Speaker
The one with the knife is obviously better. So like either one is basically what I'm saying. That one might be fun because if you don't look like any version of Patrick Stewart or whatever, but you have the knife through the chest, someone asks you, who are you supposed to be? And you can just laugh while looking down at the knife. and then I'm young, Captain Picard, who got stabbed in the heart, but in a Nausicaa bar fight. Obviously.
00:56:29
Speaker
I, I, an honorable mention, don't know if they playmates when they were doing all the TNG toys ever released a cue that you could change the costumes of because of all the different costumes he wears in this episode where he's got like the God cloak and he's got the flower delivery one, but then he's also like the delivery guy costume, but then he's also in the bar with the vest and he's chewing on the celery stock and cleaning the dishes. Like, The little stinker Q. So, you know, we got a bunch of different looks for Q in this episode. That might have been
00:57:01
Speaker
Now it's time for the line, Mr. John. Great lines. This episode, a lot of great lines. I know. so i So I started just writing down basically almost everything Q said. So then I stopped because I was like, you can't do that. So I'm going to start with the one that made me like literally laugh out loud was in the cold open.
00:57:16
Speaker
Welcome to the afterlife, Jean-Luc. You're dead. Yeah. Yes.
00:57:25
Speaker
And then saying, I had no idea you were such a cat. And then just goes on and on and on about him, like every little thing he says. But then my last one, because I couldn't write every single one. This one's actually ah from Picard.
00:57:37
Speaker
I'd rather die the man i as the man I was than live the life I just saw. Like, you can live a normal, okay life, but you're not...
00:57:49
Speaker
you know, yeah and command. yeah or you could die. That was the last great line I had for the episode. Again, replete, filled with great lines. i the whole think the whole first line. could have written down the whole scene of the last meeting in the white room.
00:58:06
Speaker
them in the last meeting in the white room Yeah, I think the first scene also in the has a lot of just, it's well-written, but like, especially like Picard in that first scene. No, I am not dead because I refuse to believe that the afterlife is run by you.
00:58:20
Speaker
The universe is not so badly designed. Yeah, it's like, you'd obviously be like, am I in hell? Yeah, I think you're a very handsome woman. I still put as a quick line. Yeah.
00:58:31
Speaker
I think you're very, and also said... Not very convincingly. No. She's like, handsome. This is a great line because I still say this in some way today.
00:58:44
Speaker
Human, play Domjot, human.
00:58:49
Speaker
um Q's line, I see you found your Nausicaan friend. You seem unimpaled so far. hu Flowers! Is there a Jean-Luc Picard here? Oh yeah. Classic line.
00:59:03
Speaker
ah Like all Starfleet, you talk and you talk, but you have no garumba.
00:59:11
Speaker
Nothing is... And then this is when Picard is... in his cucked, what is it, his beta version. He's in his blue uniform. He goes to Sydney. He's like, I'm going to dr i'mnna talk to Beverly, and we're going to work this out. I'm going to just tell her what's going on. And then it's Q sitting there.
00:59:28
Speaker
And he goes, doing a Freud impression. and That's right. But then when he drops the Freud act, he goes, nothing has changed, Jean-Luc, except for you. But then again, that's what you wanted, wasn't it? To change the man you were in your youth?
00:59:40
Speaker
Well, you did it. This is the man you are today, and you should be happy. You have a real heart beating in your chest, and you get to live out the rest of your life in safety, running tests, making analyses, and carrying reports to your superiors.
00:59:54
Speaker
Ouch, babe. Yeah, ouch. ah Riker's performance review. Steady? Reliable? Pugtual? oh And then Picard in the, in the turbo lifts getting really mad.
01:00:12
Speaker
Are you having a good laugh cue? Does it amuse you to think of me living out the rest of my life as a dreary man in a tedious job? um I can't live out my days as that person. That man is bereft of passion and imagination.
01:00:26
Speaker
That is not who I am. So the Anton Crittian award for best performance. Can there be any? Oh, we skipped one. Which one? Would this be ah fun holo novel to play out?
01:00:36
Speaker
Would this be a fun holo novel to play out? This is basically a holo novel. Yes, it is a holo novel. I think so, yes. But I also have a question. what you go first.
01:00:47
Speaker
you? Yes or no? but think The question is, like, am I playing Jean-Luc? Or is it like I'm... gonna relive someday that I lived that's what I'm saying like are you is the scenario I mean I asked the questions but I'm like what would the holodeck scenario be if I'm playing like you get shot and you die and you have to like am I replaying this exact scenario I'm just taking the place of Jean-Luc Picard I'm playing Jean-Luc Picard or some captain Who's had this exact story? Or am I, like you said, it's my life and I'm playing this scenario through in this way.
01:01:25
Speaker
like Basically, like do I want to get stabbed in the heart or I want it to be something else? Yeah. um I would say, but I tend to think of it as the in events of the episode is the holo novel. yeah So, would I want to play a captain who goes back to a moment in his academy days and has to avoid getting stabbed?
01:01:45
Speaker
And then... oh Probably. I mean, it seems like it sounds like it might be fun, right? That's what you're saying. Because you said yes. Yeah. Because like you already, I mean, yes, the stakes are pretty high, I guess. But it's a hollow novel when you're doing it, though.
01:02:04
Speaker
I think the the general container or like the holodeck scenario of It's a Wonderful Life or A Christmas Carol is actually kind of an interesting one, right? Like you could you could tell the computer based on my personal looks like pi a scenario where I'm visited by a ghost.
01:02:23
Speaker
Yeah. so ah That could work. That'd be fun. all right yeah Do you think it'd be fun though? Like if you could go back... Just some time in your youth for like a day or whatever length of time it is. But you like you look like that, like you did back then and everything.
01:02:43
Speaker
Like it's not ah like if you go back and not do something, it's not like a bad day necessarily. Well, because like if you get to pick it, then cool. But like, you know, you don't necessarily get to pick the day, but it's not like all that life shattering. It's not like necessarily like the worst day of your life or whatever. This is the divide I think I have with the nostalgia boomer boomery mindset of like reliving the good times is not ah interesting to me. So like to me going back.
01:03:10
Speaker
Well, I mean, like you could do things differently. yeah that's a certain days. You know I mean? Changing things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To see how they'd play out. Like, so for me, unfortunately for me, my answer is like, there's a lot of situations I suspected would have been very bad for me that I, that in that scenario, like when I go back and try to see just how bad it would get.
01:03:32
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't know. yeah but like in terms of good like potentially yeah this would i think that would be a fun scenario if it was on a holodeck yeah because it's like no for me i've like oh you're going back to like college or like right after be like all right well i'm just gonna start like making out with all these guys at these parties or whatever like there's no there's no consequences that's There's an online writer, Drew McGarry, and he's always like, one of the things he always obsessed over was like, I just want to know who had a crush on you i know. oh it's Just like, to ask him point blank.
01:04:08
Speaker
Like, I was much more self-conscious and like, not... very confident when I was younger. it'd be nice to be like, Oh, I am younger now, but I actually, i have the no nonsense of a soon to be middle-aged woman.
01:04:23
Speaker
All right The anti-Curidian award for best performance. Is there any doubt it's Patrick Stewart? Well, it's either him or and John Delancey. So yeah. I put John Delancey as the Shatner cause he really has to go for it. Yeah. Oh, I put the Nausikens or Corey, but I don't care. this Yeah, those are in the, yeah, for sure. But I i don't think anything was like rough. I think everyone's playing the one note that they're given.
01:04:46
Speaker
But I don't think Hugh Picard are one note in this episode. No, no, no. Like, so for Anton Caridian, like, you noticed in the scene where his father appears that Patrick Stewart's entire body language changes and he starts breathing faster. Like, he starts to get really stressed out. I thought that was really and interesting thing to like, observe.
01:05:08
Speaker
And then i got to be honest with you, Kristen. I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever consciously registered that actors don't blink. I've never just like, Oh yeah. A lot of them don't.
01:05:21
Speaker
Well, you're not supposed to. Cause when you see people blinking on screen, you're like, why are they blinking so much? Like, it looks like they're doing it too much. So the scenes with Picard and Q, especially after the flash, but once he, that first scene, after he's jumped back in time,
01:05:39
Speaker
There's ah like a whole scene where Delancey is sitting. He knocks the chess pieces off the table and he stands up and he's talking. he is not and It makes sense. He's a god, right?
01:05:50
Speaker
Why would he blink? So like it actually adds an extra element. But I was just watching. I'm like, what's what's weird about this moment? i'm like, nobody's blinking. That's what's going on. and I don't know. It's not like, it's just a thing. It's like good acting, not a lot of head movement and the eyes are not blinking.
01:06:08
Speaker
I think that's very hard. It's very technical. I kind of want to ask an actor now, like, when do you blink? Like, do you plan that? That, you know, when you turn your back the camera? Like when you know that they're probably gonna, when they edit, they're gonna probably edit the other shot that's the other person probably that i mean that's just skill and i delancey and patrick stewart always have had great chemistry they're both great together so it's like it makes less anyway shoot to thrill most exciting image or sequence i put um bar fights i put the whole first act but that includes a bar fight but yeah yeah let's do that yeah the whole one are the full real one yeah the full like real what they're all getting into it yeah
01:06:49
Speaker
But Kennedy is not a good fighter. No. Oh, my God. of jamo To be honest. But like she i was like, this is embarrassing. Like the god the other actors trying to like go easy on her. And i'm like, oh, boy.
01:07:02
Speaker
Two things that would be different if this episode were made were made today. They would not have cast a 17 year old to kiss a 52 year old man. Absolutely not. Patrick Stewart would have been canceled. That would have been a big issue.
01:07:15
Speaker
And and I think the attendees would have kicked some ass. Or at least not been such a chump, which she really was. They both were. but also i do also have like a hypothesis that like if if this were Captain Kirk, he'd probably have been like, all I got to do is figure out to fight these guys to the point where they don't stab me in the heart.
01:07:35
Speaker
He would have been like, oh, I should do things. I should be more measured. He'd be like, well, obviously I know where they're coming from. yeah been I've done this fight before. I'm going to do this instead. yes hell yeah I plan to win the fight this time.
01:07:48
Speaker
That's right. That's right.
01:07:52
Speaker
ah shoot to three I mean, Captain Kirk already answered this question from Q. You know, I need my pain. but You want me to think of all the times I should have turned left when I turned right or whatever it is?
01:08:05
Speaker
Like, that's in Star Trek V. It's text. Captain Kirk has no regrets. No, absolutely not. What part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? How to rig a billiards table, apparently. There you go. Because both Jean-Luc and Corey know how to do it.
01:08:22
Speaker
Corey is like, let's cheat. And it's get how to get beyond the gaming commission or whatever, the intergalactic gaming commission or whatever. Chris and I think there's actually a little more insidiousness here that we're missing.
01:08:34
Speaker
The Nausikens, they're on the space station. he's so willing to cheat. I think this goes back to what we identified in Voyager with court calling out the racism, that Starfleet characters teach. I think this is all part of it. like Aliens are not humans and you should be suspicious of them and you should try to cheat them.
01:08:52
Speaker
like You know what I mean? like it's And also, we didn't really see any evidence that the Nausikens were cheating, did we? Like, oh, he finds out he cheats, but we don't. It's like, I better use the magnetics there or something. We just see them winning and then Picard... And he's like, oh, I know what to do. I'll rig the table.
01:09:08
Speaker
Like, you wouldn't be able to see if... I don't know. Yeah, i was like, maybe he just got beat and you can't take it. You're a sore loser. That would have been a funnier thing Picard, instead of when he says, like, I know what we should do, we should cheat.
01:09:24
Speaker
And Patrick Stewart or Picard should just said to change history, right? He's like, I think you just got beat. Let's go get a drink. Yeah. And that's it's going to get in my grades here in a minute. But like, could this episode have been hornier? And would that have made it better?
01:09:36
Speaker
Well, here's the problem. it was a little horny, but it was a little bit horny with a 17 year old and a 52 year old. um yeah It could have been hornier in a different way.
01:09:48
Speaker
That's right. I think it was as horny as it needed to be. no But like if I'm 52 and you all of a sudden and put me back into my 21 year old body, like obviously I'm going to banging left, right and center like.
01:10:04
Speaker
The thing is, he's 50. This is what's bothering me about the episode. It's like, I have a second chance. And he, for a moment, he's excited to see them. And then he's like a post testosterone old man.
01:10:16
Speaker
The rest of the way. Yeah. Like theoretically he should still be like virile. Yeah. niceus and this is as i say Yeah.
Should 'Tapestry' Be Rated Highly?
01:10:24
Speaker
And he's just like, no, no, no.
01:10:27
Speaker
I think this is in affecting my final grade. Then track, marry or kill tapestry. What do you have I actually really like those episodes, so I was going to give it a soft merry. ah soft merry. So I was still... Like, it maybe it may not last forever, but...
01:10:42
Speaker
Because i I recognize like this is generally a respected one. I didn't come into this one trolling it. I never disliked the episode. But like when I'm watching it, I think about what Michael Piller said. I'm like, did we get somewhere besides the beginning? Like it's bookended very well.
01:10:58
Speaker
Like if you just had the two white light scenes, that's a pretty solid story right there, right? Mm-hmm. And I kind of feel like once you travel back in time, you kind of don't. It's not interesting except for the acting.
01:11:10
Speaker
I think Patrick Stewart and John Delancey are great together. Yeah. It's funny and it's compelling. It's well written. The 17 year old thing is oogie, whatever. But it's like she does a great job. That's out of the out of the, you know, um hands of...
01:11:25
Speaker
most of the people who worked on the show. yeah But she's great, I think. I think yeah like she's really... like Had you not told me she was 17, I would never have even thought about it. But my so I think that John Luke having regrets is a big theme of this show, and him going, being able to redo stuff, ah like, he's like, I just, like, him not wanting to make the same mistakes, he would be overly cautious, like anybody would be.
01:11:50
Speaker
So, like, that does that part doesn't bother me. I guess what I'm just i'm saying if it were me no i understand regrets i wasn saying is like, because for me, it marries, and this is maybe just my issue and we'll put it to vote. It's like,
Comparison to Classic Storytelling Cliches
01:12:04
Speaker
is this a great episode of television on top of a great episode of Star Trek? It's like, it's pretty good for, on both those things, but I am inclined to agree with Michael Piller.
01:12:12
Speaker
When you're late in a run, you're out of ideas. You do a, it's a wonderful life. But what I'm saying is like the fact that, Picard goes, he stops being a captain entirely. He's like, if I were younger, I would do things differently, but he doesn't do them as a captain. He does them kind of wimply.
01:12:30
Speaker
He's just wimpy. it's just like, why he's still himself back in time. So why would he take everything he's learned and just do it in the kind of cop-out way? He doesn't try to steer them in another direction as a leader would. He just says, don't do that.
01:12:46
Speaker
It's wrong. Don't do that. It's bad. And then he just directly intercedes and shoves them and all that. And it's
Speculation on Picard's Alternate Life
01:12:52
Speaker
just like, i don't know. It's just some ah part of that I didn't buy. And then i did at the same time really like when he goes to the Enterprise and he's in that blue uniform.
01:13:03
Speaker
And it's so jarring. Yeah. And he hates it so much. He hates it so much. You see the consequence of that. I would, ah I kind of just wish we had spent a little more time there to see how pathetic his life was. Like maybe you like if you'd done it today, maybe he I would have loved to see his quarters. you Right. he Did he have a pet? Was it a mess?
01:13:20
Speaker
Did he have like a girlfriend or a boyfriend or whatever? Like, and that was like a, just, you know, getting by, like it was all muddling through. and I guess, I don't know. It's just, Him asking Beverly out on a date and her saying, no, I don't think so.
01:13:35
Speaker
I just didn't, the flashback to the Academy stuff or the, the incident stuff never was I that into it. So I don't know. a soft Mary seems pretty reasonable, but I'm going to throw this to vote.
01:13:47
Speaker
Okay. Trek and
Significance of 'Tapestry' in Star Trek Series
01:13:49
Speaker
trek and Mary. i just, it was also weird how this episode is like a first draft for all good things. A lot of ways we got the Q and Picard relationship.
01:13:59
Speaker
There's certainly that element of it. um And just kind of the regrets and the jumping through time. Also generations, because it's kind of dealing with that. There's a lot kind of a similarity to it because it's Ron Moore writing it. I think that I thought I thought was interesting. I thought that was a positive.
01:14:16
Speaker
um So, yeah, a good Q episode, by the way. um Yeah. that's Why people like it a lot. All right, so that's that's Tapestry. That's week one of the Captain is Dead month.
01:14:27
Speaker
We shall continue this theme month with the Tholian web from the original series.
Podcast Wrap-Up and Call to Action
01:14:33
Speaker
Captain Kirk is dead. Didn't think that was possible.
01:14:38
Speaker
I have bad news for you. If you've seen the films.
01:14:46
Speaker
We're Trek Mary K Pod on social media, trekmerrykillpod.com, where you can see all of our standings. If you feel so inclined, leave a review, rate us five stars wherever you listen. Would really appreciate it.
01:14:56
Speaker
So until next week, TMK out. Bye.