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TNG: "The Perfect Mate" (s5e21) with Cory Marciel
127 Plays5 days ago
PICARD'S BASIC INSTINCT. We conclude Spring Flings Month with a look at the time Jean-Luc Picard bonded with one of the most beautiful women to ever appear on Star Trek: Kamala, as played by Famke Janssen. But is her performance as skin deep as the script? Bryan is joined by an old friend of his, Cory Marciel, a writer and editor in Hollywood. It's two dudes bro'ing out over Star Trek. Will they find this one a TREK, MARRY, or KILL?
The grades begin at (42:00).
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Trek, Mary, Kill'
00:00:00
Speaker
Next on Trek, Mary Kill. Mutants, gifts, spots.
Recap of 'The Perfect Mate'
00:00:05
Speaker
Engage. a beautiful seductress comes to life. Kamala is the key to peace between our two worlds. A woman destined to end years of war. You learn so quickly what stimulates a man. And determined to satisfy forbidden desires. Don't do this.
00:00:22
Speaker
This you do with men. But will Picard sacrifice peace for passion? Would you ask me to stay and ask two armies to keep fighting? Star Trek The Next Generation.
Meet Your Hosts: Brian and Corey
00:00:39
Speaker
Hi,
00:00:46
Speaker
I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Corey. Welcome to Trek, Marry, Kill, a Star Trek podcast that has a long and complex sexual maturing process. We're wrapping up our Spring Flings month with another episode from The Next Generation.
00:00:59
Speaker
But before we dive into all that, this week I'm joined by a longtime friend. He's a writer, an editor, ah former roommate even. He's Corey. Corey, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me, Brian.
00:01:10
Speaker
I don't know. I don't, I don't know that this is true, but I may be the first podcast guest you've had who's seen you naked. Which you didn't tell me about until years later, but that's possible.
00:01:21
Speaker
I held onto the memory very tightly a private way for a long time.
Episode Details and Famke Jansen's Role
00:01:26
Speaker
Well, you're, you were operating in the window where I looked my best. So there, I don't know what that means, but there you go.
00:01:32
Speaker
Um, yeah. That's a good it's a good start to the show, especially for the theme that we're doing this month. We're talking about The Perfect Mate. It's the 21st episode of Star Trek The Next Generation's fifth season.
00:01:45
Speaker
It premiered in syndication April 27th, 1992, written by Gary Percanti and Michael Piller from a story by Rene Achevarria and Gary Percanti, directed by Cliff Bull.
00:01:56
Speaker
Memory Alpha describes it, Picard serves as host for a peace treaty between two warring planets, but he may be unable to resist the reconciliation gift, a beautiful empathic metamorph who is to be presented by one leader as the other's wife.
00:02:11
Speaker
What Memory Alpha isn't telling us is that this metamorph is named Kamala and she's played by Famke Johnson, empirically one of the most beautiful women ever put on a TV screen.
Famke Jansen's Memorable Performance
00:02:23
Speaker
ah She's been broken out of stasis thanks to a pair of meddling Ferengi and Picard and the Enterprise crew spend the rest of the episode trying not to give in to their hormones around her. But Jean-Luc Picard is a man of honor who knows his duties, and he's able to resist her, even as she confesses that she'll always love him as she leaves with the man she was promised to.
00:02:41
Speaker
Corey, do you remember the first time you saw this episode? I, you know, i I don't remember precisely, but I think I know, because it would have premiered in the spring of 92, right?
00:02:54
Speaker
I think that's, I looked it up. Yeah. And I would have been a senior in high school and I had an unusual viewing experience with the next generation because I grew up on a on a ranch and we didn't have cable and you couldn't get TV reception.
00:03:08
Speaker
But my dad. Probably because some guy owed him money for work he'd done, he got a satellite dish in like 1990. And that satellite dish, you know, it was like 10 feet across.
00:03:21
Speaker
And it was like mounted on a ah big cement pillar.
Impact on Perceptions of Women in Media
00:03:24
Speaker
Like a deflector dish, sure. Yes. Like it's the kind of thing that SETI would have to try to contact aliens. And it would physically move to find the satellites.
00:03:34
Speaker
To acquire the signal. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yeah, it had to. um And so it, one of the, unusual things about that was that you would get the, the affiliate feeds for syndicated TV programs and for sports highlights.
00:03:49
Speaker
So if you figured out which my sister and I did, you'd figure out like where, where these things were being broadcast. So I would see every episode of next generation a week early because on Saturday afternoons and Sunday afternoons, they would broadcast to the affiliates, uh, three syndicated series in a row.
00:04:08
Speaker
And one was, uh, uh, very Canadian production of War of the Worlds, which was my least favorite, but i still enjoyed. And then Friday the 13th, the series, which had nothing to do with the movie, but was like a proto version of The X-Files.
00:04:23
Speaker
Oh, wow. Really great show. I really loved. and And then the third one was always The Next Generation. And so I would see this, it felt like you're getting this secret thing.
Critique of the 'Perfect Woman' Trope
00:04:32
Speaker
So I almost certainly would have watched this for the first time, like laying on the floor, stealing,
00:04:38
Speaker
from the affiliates to watch this a week early. and I think we're well past the statute of limitations for that. So I don't know. I don't know. The FCC is very powerful.
00:04:50
Speaker
Also, the laws you know are ah mere suggestions at this point. They no longer apply. That's right. that's right i'm I'm not wealthy, so they apply to me. Oh, that's fair. Fair enough. ah This episode was, well, I was 11 when this episode premiered. So there was ah massive percentage of it that just flew right over my head.
00:05:09
Speaker
And I remember this is kind of a boring, talky one. And I was not at the point yet where Fonka Johnson registered as, I was not a sexual being. So nothing of that was registering for It's like, Picard is talking to this lady.
00:05:23
Speaker
but i was 18, so it's a different experience. Yes. I don't think I had a lady in my, i don't think that was a word I used until I was much older. So it would have been girl or woman.
00:05:37
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I was thinking of. But in any case, um this episode is tricky because it took me most of the um Biden campaign to really shift, even though she was governor of the state that we're in, or excuse me, senator from the state that we're in.
00:05:56
Speaker
I could not make the shift.
Writers' Fantasies and Male Narratives
00:05:58
Speaker
I always had Kamala in my head because of this episode. And so even now going back and watching it, it really was hard for me when writing it down to not say Kamala. I had done the shift.
00:06:12
Speaker
Oh yeah. I have a similar experience now because I i didn't remember that you know, the alternate pronunciation is, it sounds insulting because it was used as an insulting way to demean the candidate. right and thing And so she's just,
00:06:27
Speaker
She's just Kamala to me. And then i also need to point out two things that the rewatch has done for me in this episode.
00:06:38
Speaker
I swear on my life. I thought this was a season six episode. So that was weird. Like I was, i don't necessarily, I've lost the ability to be able to clock the episode by looking at a single frame.
00:06:51
Speaker
I might've shown this off when we lived together, not something to be proud of, but it was something I could do for a very long time. you were shown top other kinds Yeah, exactly. I can't do um that anymore, but,
00:07:02
Speaker
Also, now ah i have I've lost some of the episode titles, which is really upsetting, but I still feel like I know what season episodes are in And I know for sure this one was simply one that i never correctly assigned.
00:07:16
Speaker
I just had to point. These are nerd things I need to point out. So I'm point out those two things. And then the other one, the other second thing being on my life, I also, the reason why this episode confused me for so long was that I had just assumed that she was being born when she emerges from this really shoddily CGI'd, even in the remaster, they did a shitty job of of doing this cocoon that she emerges from that i thought that she was just a fully formed person from that i have forgotten and i just even watching at the time in real time ignored the story she tells about taking taking her mother from when she was four years old so that just does change how i watch this episode and think about it it's a little confusing in the episode too because like watching it because i watched it twice because i'm if nothing if not conscientious and
00:08:04
Speaker
Appreciate it. Thank you. The first time i you deserve the best.
00:08:10
Speaker
The, the first time I watched it is kind of like, is she a child in an adult's body? And then the second time watching it, it's like, okay, no, she's just somebody who's really sheltered.
00:08:20
Speaker
Right. And, and hasn't interacted with a wide array of people outside the people who have been prepping her for this task that she's been so-called born for.
Empathy and Relationship Dynamics
00:08:29
Speaker
Right. So it is confusing. I bet when I first watched it, probably thought she was born from my computer too. Because think an easy assumption to make.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah. And it it kind of fits the kind of vague idea that they're presenting about a metamorph. You know what I mean? Like, okay, well, it kind of makes sense that they knew this is a woman. Anyway. ah Yeah.
00:08:50
Speaker
But let's talk about the Famke Johnson of it all. What's wrong with us? so I'm talking about men. This idea of the perfect woman. And it's it's kind of it's very writerly because when you see it in social media now or these like right wing slugs, when they talk about how women should be, there is a ah much more like she should be like the Carl's Jr. girl eating a messy burger.
00:09:13
Speaker
Like that's like the mainstream thing. But when you get into the writerliness of it, it's much more insidious and gross. It's like this. It's the perfect mate. ah hu where she finds you. so I find you so interesting and I can, I become the woman you want me to be and fit into your life.
00:09:30
Speaker
That is some gross ass shit. I feel like we we've, we've been enlightened enough to at least acknowledge that. But what is it? Where does it come from? Well, I think in watching it, like before I watched cause remember the premise of the episode and before I watched it, I was thinking like, well, want to be, always want to be charitable about an episode, you know, um,
00:09:50
Speaker
lot of people work hard on something and and and and and telling story is really, really hard. yeah um and and And so I have like two points of view of ways ways to look at it. And one being that every writer, male or female, non-binary is egocentric and writes from an egocentric place.
00:10:07
Speaker
So we enact our fantasies and our stories, even for stories that are very, very serious dramas. We're still enacting the fantasy about what we want to say about the world, the way we want the world to be. And this is ah this is a common trope throughout storytelling.
00:10:22
Speaker
You know, like James Bond always gets the girl. Odysseus, like three or four women fall in love with him while he's coming back to Ithaca. And his wife waits 20 years for him. You know, like Homer, let's interrogate that.
00:10:35
Speaker
yeah i but and But then the flip side of it is like taking something from real life, which is when two people are attracted to one another you do change yourself to match that other person more closely because empathy is a natural part of a healthy relationship.
Episode's Complexity and Evolution
00:10:52
Speaker
So you take on their interests and so on and so forth.
00:10:56
Speaker
Um, and so I wanted to make that argument that like, maybe they're taking something real in real life and then blowing it up in a big kind of ridiculous way to explore it via science fiction.
00:11:07
Speaker
Um, But watching the episode, I can't make that argument. my and None of the men change to be more like her because she doesn't really have an identity. But I think that the episode, i think that the first like third of the episode, not not that great.
00:11:26
Speaker
um But then I think it does evolve and gets to a more complex place that I do enjoy. And so I can't, like also, like I'm not as...
00:11:37
Speaker
I think that you're more in touch with the online critique of media than I am. i find that I find that very exhausting to engage with. And I think it it's not an invalid way of looking at stories, but it is a limited way of looking at stories and not the only way of looking at stories.
Modern Storytelling Trends in Star Trek
00:11:55
Speaker
it's I mean, that's a fair that's a fair thing to point out. I kind of it's more like all the characters you mentioned from history in the in the Odyssey, especially like they had a thing. They had a gimmick. They had ah an identity.
00:12:08
Speaker
You know, Penelope had her own thoughts about how things were going to go, all that stuff. And literally this character, like so many of these, you know, these masturbatory fiction writers, like talking about, oh, I'm sleeping with my students and she's just so interested. Like this is of a kind with all that, where she's literally stating throughout the episode, i am just whatever you are and I'm interested. Like that is a very specific thing. And I i think there's kind of a wormy thing. I guess I'm saying being mean, there's kind of a wormy thing about ah writers, like fiction writers who are like, wouldn't it be in great if this incredibly beautiful woman is so interested in me, I overcome not looking like Odysseus, you know, to be very clear, like, like, I was so interesting that I beat the alphas at their own game is how it feels. And Gene Roddenberry in Star Trek, there is, you know Spock's brain was kind of like a big,
00:13:01
Speaker
example, he and Gene Kuhn were kind of getting out like, what does she see in Johnny Unitas that she doesn't see in me? And stuff and there's just something about... very, like ah ah very like ah big a big manly guy.
00:13:16
Speaker
He was, but he was also getting older, you know, and he wasn't, he was also a writer. He had a writer's body. Like he might've been tall, but he wasn't cut. He wasn't fit.
00:13:26
Speaker
So ah that's all. I guess what I'm saying, because, you know, we know going back with what Rick Berman did to the women in Star Trek was pretty tough. You, you know, there is something very masturbatory about this idea and, and kind of using pat Jean-Luc Picard is like the, like here's how we get away with doing that version of the story.
00:13:48
Speaker
here's how we do our wonder boys with Patrick's, you know, that kind of thing is, is weird. It makes this, it's kind of like, there was a version while watching this the fourth time. I'm like, this is like the most season one ass episode that, that they would have done. And it felt very much kind of silly in its own way, but yeah, it's very clear. It, this is the thing in, in those Warner brothers shorts, when the tongue would roll out and the eyes would pop out of the wolf, um you'd see a beautiful woman.
00:14:17
Speaker
That is how most, heteronormative, cisgendered, that's how most of us are. And, yeah and through social training, we learn how to, that just keep it inside. but how do you need Can you tell, I think that's one of the things in, in, cause I think there's a real puritanical streak currently in storytelling.
Picard's Intimacy Issues
00:14:39
Speaker
a hundred percent And I've seen that in the reaction to like a Nora just won best picture. And I've seen that in the reaction to that.
00:14:45
Speaker
And, And I think that that's unhealthy. I think it leads to unhealthy places. I think it's fascistic. um It's demeaning. It's denying of humanity in a lot of ways. And there's a real puritanical streak in the next generation in the treatment of Picard's utter lack of a sex life, really.
00:15:03
Speaker
Aside for like one or two little examples. And it's held as a virtue. Yes, it is very much held as a virtue. and coming And growing up at that time, and being 18 years old, It, you know, it's the height of the AIDS crisis.
00:15:13
Speaker
The messages about sex were, were, if you have sex, the two outcomes are it'll ruin your life because you get somebody pregnant or it'll kill you. That's, those are the mess that's sex.
00:15:25
Speaker
And I think next generation does embrace that in being very much scrubbed of sexuality. Although there are episodes where they do and interrogate that little bit. Like there's a net, there's another episode in this season, uh, season five, where.
00:15:39
Speaker
you're sure it's season five it's just sure because i looked before i was glancing through the titles and um there's the one where uh reicher falls for the androgynous alien yes the outcast right yeah which is i think is i haven't seen that in a long time but i remember that being a very interesting approach you can imagine how that might be received today um i think that like No, but like, so if you tell a story where, like, like you said, like, we do have a reaction to two very beautiful people.
00:16:10
Speaker
Women have reactions to very beautiful people too. And in in a way that is particular to, you know, there are some differences between how men and women interact with beauty. But Should you write a story that denies all of that and shows shoves that all to the side?
00:16:26
Speaker
But that's not honest. That's not good fiction. But feel like there's I agree with you that this there's some problems with how this one's presented. But I think there's some strengths to it, too. oh Well, yeah. well i just i The power dynamic, I think, for me personally, because it's not something that filters in and am my sexuality, in my sexual experience of, like, what is it saying?
00:16:48
Speaker
you know Everything's about sex except for sex. That's about power. And i think there that is... that i mean, I just have to accept that that's very true, but I also am like, what there is a pleasure aspect that just gets completely denied, and you know, for better or ill, and I would say for better, a lot of the original series was about the pleasure aspect of it.
00:17:09
Speaker
And that pleasure seeking, it can be done responsibly. And that can include sexual ah exploration as well. And we have business and serious things to do. And we have to learn. And, you know, they like it kind of tried to balance everything.
00:17:25
Speaker
And I completely agree with you that The Next Generation is taking up the mantle of the puritanical part of it, but it also is that kind of like, like kind of grody, you know, edgy novelist thing of like, uh, in this particular episode, like we're going to talk about this more in the notes here, but you know, casting Famke Jansen, that definitely caused vibrations throughout all the dudes at the producer level and the writer level that there was some stuff going on. Um,
00:17:57
Speaker
I think that the... i mean, there's so much to talk about with this episode. And I find myself thinking a lot about like, oh, like you could really novelize this episode and and explore it in a very interesting way and interrogate a lot of these ideas.
00:18:12
Speaker
And I'm always a fan of an episode that gets under the hood with Picard and puts him in positions where he actually has to act more like a human being than he normally does. And he's in uncomfortable places.
00:18:23
Speaker
That's a fantastic, that is what this episode does the best at. And yeah if it didn't have the setup in a way that I know, I kind of feel like most people, maybe it's 51 49.
00:18:36
Speaker
Most people are hung up on the setup. Like they're more interested. They're thinking about that more yeah because if there was just an episode of like, this is a woman that's unabashedly totally into captain Picard and is willing to throw away whatever,
00:18:50
Speaker
like that idea can work. Right. But it's, then you add in this level of like, but she can do this with any man and she's been bred to do this. like She's been like human trafficked and all this, it starts to you pile on in a weird way that gets in the way of what is the most, what's probably the most interesting part of the episode.
00:19:10
Speaker
Yeah. like, what does the captain of a starship do when a woman's, when he's head over heels for someone who's head over heels for him? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is interesting. Cause like it, Well, there's, there's so many things to talk about, but the, the, I think that the the thing that's like the most unnerving about the episode to me is that she has no personality of her own.
Alternate Endings for 'The Perfect Mate'
00:19:35
Speaker
Correct. And not because, not because of like some fault of, of her as a person's because she's raised that way. She's raised to be a blank slate. That's going to be impressed, uh, to be like someone else.
00:19:47
Speaker
So she doesn't have her own identity. Um, And that that that's probably the aspect of it that's like the the hurdle for a lot of people. And it's a hurdle for me. And like I think it's very valid to look at the the kind of the uncomfortable aspects of that.
00:20:03
Speaker
but Her performance throughout it, though, like especially when watched the second time, like she starts off as this is the first time she's ever been like free of all of her handlers.
00:20:14
Speaker
And so she's like, oh, I've been I know I have this power over other people. Let's explore that. And she does that in ways that but do make me a little like uncomfortable in that she's sort of the wild girl who's down for anything, but she's going to settle down.
00:20:28
Speaker
That's the fantasy that probably bothers me the most. um But I can see where she's been unleashed on the world for the first time. She's like I have these powers and I get to have power over people. And I'm going to explore that.
00:20:40
Speaker
And then... through the course of the episode, as she interacts with the card in those one-on-one scenes, which I think are quite good, she starts to actually think about it herself as like, Oh, who do I want to be?
00:20:53
Speaker
And I'm like with Riker, with the guys at the bar, she's just exerting her power and exploring it. But she tries that with the card, but at some point she switches over to, well, well, what am I doing?
00:21:07
Speaker
Am i being authentic? And what does this mean? I've been raised to be a certain way. And what does that mean? So like in a 46 minute television show, you can't get that deep with those ideas.
00:21:18
Speaker
But if you did a novelization of this character, you could really explore those ideas. And I think that would be very fascinating. um Super. I think you answered the fourth the fourth storyline idea here.
00:21:32
Speaker
So because that is, you're completely, I agree with you. But you also mentioned the outcast, which I think touches on that idea even more. So I want to get into the notes real quick about this. And before we get into the grades, so Gary Percanti was a pseudonym for Pillar's friend Ruben Leder.
00:21:48
Speaker
ah who disliked the rewrites to his draft script. This was the only time that a writer requested a pseudonym during Pillars time on The Next Generation. And I need to talk about Ruben Leder or Letter ah because it's very important for me to discuss this. It probably makes sense that we're discussing it in the episode of where Famke Jansen makes everyone horny.
00:22:08
Speaker
um By the way, I've seen Famke Jansen IRL one time. Oh, really? And my whole thought was, that is a tall woman. like And and and she was wearing a jean skirt and long black boots.
00:22:22
Speaker
And she seemed very nice, but she was like going to ah be a guest on the show. And I was just looking at her and I'm like, that is definitely a model. like yeah Mistakeably well.
00:22:32
Speaker
But anyway, Ruben later was the showrunner creator of. of syndication, right? Next generation brought in this whole wave of syndication. And one of those shows was basically flipper the next generation, but it was just called flipper.
00:22:47
Speaker
Yes. And I watched that show quite religiously because i was like, well, this seems fun. It's like for my age, it was kind of on at the same time as next generation. But,
00:22:58
Speaker
And it was basically a bunch of white people go to this institute. And one of them is from it was like the kid from the original show. And there was like good casting for the family there. And Flipper was in it. And I like dolphins. And that's fun.
00:23:09
Speaker
But they were like ah attached to an island. And the island girl that the main dorky white boy falls in love with is played by Jessica Alba, which ah after Melissa milanana alissa Milano, Alyssa Milano was like my second big TV crush. So okay every week Flipper's on.
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm doing the wolf tongue and the eyes coming out and smoke smoke coming out of the ears. That happened for a long time. That went on for a long time.
00:23:36
Speaker
Many years. I'm like seven or eight years older than you, I think. hu It's like my favorite reference for for movie crushes or TV crushes is different. Like my my first TV crush when I was a little boy was Linda Carter on Wonder Woman.
00:23:53
Speaker
and i She is beautiful though. Like even when ily beautiful woman you can imagine when I was like six or seven and you would kind of vaguely catch a rerun of that is like that. What a pretty girl. I can remember being ashamed and asking my mom, like pulling her over to the corner. They want to stay in front my brothers. was like, I mean, it's one, two, I'm going to be on.
00:24:14
Speaker
My mom was so puzzled. and i You know, I was, I had a puppy love for Lindy Carter. Um, There's just something about it. And that's why like I get movie stars when the, of the old, when I see a movie on the big screen and I'm like, Oh yeah, I get it. I've like completely mispronounced. I think that's the thing about Fonka Johnson in this role is that she's, she's like a top tier Star Trek guest star because she's a movie star.
00:24:47
Speaker
And I know that they talked about having her play Dax in Deep Space Nine. have been a complete waste of her ability and talents. Now, Terry Farrell is great as Dax and is a a very accomplished actress who, you know between that and Becker, has like a career that 99.999% of actors would love to have.
00:25:04
Speaker
Alonka Johnson, is she's charismatic. She has presence. She's in her her first real role, and she's going toe-to-toe with with Patrick Stewart, who is an immensely accomplished actor at this point, like she's astonishing for for a first time actress in that role.
Exploration of Picard's Character
00:25:22
Speaker
Like, and she really is a throwback to, I watch a lot of film noir in the old thirties and forties stuff. And she's a real throwback to that. And a lot of those scenes have similar elements to those film noir thrillers.
00:25:33
Speaker
Oh, but you mentioned how tall she is. and She, she rises and shrinks in this episode quite a bit. So there's like a scene where she's, you know, she's six feet tall in real life.
00:25:44
Speaker
yeah I think she's wearing, she may even be wearing heels in the show. And then, you know Patrick Stewart's probably like 5'9". And there's scenes where she towers over him.
00:25:54
Speaker
And then there's the scene in the sick bay where she's like suddenly 5'4". Oh, yeah. You know, and then and then the little guy that she marries, Alrick, He's got to be like five seven And then they they shoot it. Patrick Stewart looked taller than him and him in their one scene again.
00:26:10
Speaker
But then it's funny in her scene with Riker, like Riker's barely taller than him. Yes. I think he's pretty tall guy. She rises and shrinks response to the male ego. ah shrinks in in response to the male e Oh, that's a, that's a, that if only the episode was that artful, that would, that would make a lot of sense. Yes. They were going to ah cast her as Dax. She declined, but obviously all that stuck in some way because the spots, the look is what they wound up going with.
00:26:44
Speaker
for the trill because they had Terry Farrell in the original trail makeup, which is just basically a forehead appliance and it and wasn't working. So they're like, well, why don't we go make the trail look like Franka Jansen did?
00:26:56
Speaker
And that's how we get the spots again. The episode had four endings. The one we saw in the finished one, this there was one that was shot and not used, which is included as an extra on the TNG g season five Blu-ray.
00:27:09
Speaker
It's where Picard intervenes during the ceremony to stop the wedding, only to reveal that his abrupt intervention was only in his imagination as the ceremony continued. Although Patrick Stewart liked the idea Pillar was overruled by Rick Berman and I got to tell you something that is a stylistic departure from Star Trek. Yes.
00:27:28
Speaker
We, had we would have never seen anything like that in Star Trek. Don't even do that now. No. Yeah. they It would have been completely different than anything they'd ever done. I think it would have been wonderful.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah. It would have been, it would have sold the idea you were saying about getting under the hood with Picard. Because I think that Picard, i mean, you know, that, that kind of serialized storytelling, emotional storytelling was not in fashion at that time.
00:27:52
Speaker
And, especially in syndicated television, it's meant to be everything standalone. But Picard, if you think about him as a character, he's been through awful things. And here's a chance at happiness.
00:28:05
Speaker
And he rejects that out of a sense of duty, which is presented as virtuous, but maybe is very self-destructive. And I think that later we can talk about some of the great scenes and we can interrogate that idea a little bit more. but But the the the main the main thrust I get from Picard in this is the thing he's is afraid of isn't sex.
00:28:26
Speaker
It isn't failing in his duty. The thing that he's really afraid of is intimacy. Yes. And in any time that, cause, cause she, she gets into places where he's willing to be intimate and then he realizes it and he pulls back.
00:28:40
Speaker
Like she says, there it is that wall that you raised between us. And it's because he shared something of himself in a way that he doesn't with anyone else. And it's like, Picard, that would be so healthy for you.
00:28:52
Speaker
Like go off and and have a happy life with this person.
Star Trek's Altruistic Fantasy
00:28:55
Speaker
Like who cares about all this other stuff? You know, like you're self-destructive in this adherence to honor and duty is destroying you.
00:29:03
Speaker
I think you're getting to the meat of my question. i think we're answering our question about why are men like this? Why especially men who write fiction like this? And it is an intimacy issue. so yeah.
00:29:14
Speaker
Yeah. It's I just want you to worship me. I'm interesting. I'm, I'm gonna, I'm not going to treat you badly, even though I do, but I don't want to treat badly, but you're so interested in me, but don't get close to me. We're not going to share anything.
00:29:27
Speaker
I think that's yeah very true. um The third up ending of the third ending that was pitched, but not shot was that had Kamala interrupting the ceremony to decline both men and go off on her own and discover her own identity and all that stuff.
00:29:44
Speaker
And Rick Berman shot that down, but that was a Michael Piller idea. there was What do you think about that ending? That would have been the best ending. Oh, you think so? I think the problem is, is that the script,
00:30:00
Speaker
the script didn't want to do that because of what you said before, that it didn't spend any time trying to develop Kamala's character. I think there's a big missed moment. I don't like going back and looking. I don't say here's how I would do it better. I'm just saying in the scene before the wedding, which is, I don't know if it's a, you might say it's a great scene. i did not, but ah Picard goes to her. She's in the wedding dress.
00:30:24
Speaker
And she's basically saying she doesn't say it, which they should have just hit it hard. Like they clearly did a reshoot to establish why data is her chaperone. Like they literally inserted a scene where he explains to the audience, I have no emotions. That's why your sexual charms don't work on me.
00:30:39
Speaker
But they, but they won't hit it hard where she's like, I think that scene should have gone in. It's night. She looks beautiful in the dress, but I think he should have came in and found her crying or, or upset.
00:30:50
Speaker
And she should have said, you're too late. I bonded with you, which is what the point of the scene is. But the point is, is that she is not reacting to that discovery in herself. Yeah.
00:31:03
Speaker
it's It's about everyone else. It's not about her. And that's why... That's a good point. I think that's what gets in the way of what... If they had done it that way, which they should have anyway, it would have made the ending where she leaves both the men make complete emotional sense.
00:31:20
Speaker
But if you don't have that, then you can't do that ending, even though that would have been... There was a version of the script where that would have been the most interesting ending, where she goes off. i think that yeah I think you're right that as as written, I think...
00:31:34
Speaker
that ending would have been the most emotionally satisfying, but also hollow because it doest doesn't, it doesn't, it's like, it's sort of an adolescent ending because it it, it, it throws away all the duty and honor stuff.
00:31:48
Speaker
And it doesn't establish her as a character ahead of time. But like the idea of Picard coming in and finding her crying and actually emotional, that's too emotional for anything that Next Generation does. I agree. Generation shies away from emotions a lot. And it would be fascinating to put Picard in that position where somebody is actually grieving. Yeah. He's scared.
00:32:06
Speaker
And he has to interact with that because that's a level of intimacy that he can't approach. Absolutely. it's an mouth I also think that it would have made her unfuckable to the guys making the episode. And they never, there was never a moment where they wanted to portray her as unfuckable.
00:32:23
Speaker
And that's the, I think that's the, that's the thing that takes the episode down. mean I can't, I can't read into who these guys are. You know, I can assume. i can. god so yeah And I have, well they just did.
00:32:36
Speaker
No, exactly what but they, i mean, to me, You know, i I would like to think um but I have i had some pretty serious flaws as a human being and as a person who has his own struggles with intimacy.
00:32:49
Speaker
But. You have a conclusion. they have a conclusion. there's I mean, seeing a person in a vulnerable state and being able to comfort them, that's.
00:33:01
Speaker
you know, that's the heart of intimacy. And that's, that's, that's something that attraction can really grow from. Um, like, but attraction is not the right word. It's just like being human to another person. And at its core, Star Trek is a fantasy about altruism.
00:33:17
Speaker
It's these very powerful, very, uh, capable people. And they choose to use that not to enrich themselves, but to try to make the world a better place. And that's the core idea of Star Trek. And that's, that's an idea that has been, um,
00:33:31
Speaker
thoroughly assaulted in our modern times. yeah And, and it's, you know, it's just as unrealistic as, as any other like pure idea is, but as an aspiration,
00:33:45
Speaker
that's important to have like the legend of, of, of, of actual progressive altruism is, is an ideal to strive towards and falling short of that is just, you know,
00:33:57
Speaker
human nature.
Character Relationships in Star Trek
00:33:57
Speaker
But I think that that's that's where I can do a really charitable reading of the episode. Like, that's the point of Star Trek. By being who he is, Picard makes other people better.
00:34:09
Speaker
Which is a Trek trope we'll get to later. Yeah. Rick Berman said that ah none of us will ever know which of the four episode of four endings would have been best. Was that a tacit ah statement that the one that they went with was not good. so Is there an objective way of determining which one is the best?
00:34:29
Speaker
There isn't Rick. That's a very producery thing to say. Yes. No, that's very, why he's so successful. great chicken It's very chicken shit. of It's,
00:34:41
Speaker
it's a I think that there's... It's an idea that requires more exploration than you can do in the confines of a 1990s syndicated television show that runs for 46 minutes.
00:34:56
Speaker
I just very strongly believe if they... If Jerry Taylor had been allowed into the discussions or whatever, maybe she was off planning for Voyager something, but just been like...
00:35:07
Speaker
guys, take five minutes and just imagine that this is not someone you want to fuck. And i'm just if you were telling a story about two people and they arrived at this impasse, what would be the most emotional and cathartic release here?
00:35:23
Speaker
I think that would have gotten them a little bit closer to something that was emotionally satisfying because this episode does not, it it gets under the hood with ah Picard, like you said, but but it doesn't change anything. It's no, it's no lessons. It's no inner light. It's no, well, even inner light, it's no outcast for that matter. like Change Picard really, you know, like, like in one of the criticisms I have of television of this time and television in general is that they don't really want the characters to change.
00:35:53
Speaker
that makes it hard to make rabbi us The only thing that I can take from that is that Patrick Stewart, I believe Patrick Stewart was the one who said that he changed his performance. Mm hmm. Following that episode. Yeah. So in that sense, but yeah, you're right. The writers were like, we should probably revisit this. It was kind of a big deal. and all we get is the episode lessons where he plays piano or flute with the woman playing piano and the Jeffrey stoobes. That's basically it.
00:36:17
Speaker
yeah And then it's weird that Sartre Picard completely drops everything that he's, know, for a show that was so committed to like honoring the legend of Jean-Luc Picard and and Michael Chabon saying that the inner light was one of his favorite episodes of Star Trek, period.
00:36:32
Speaker
ah Complete tone deafness of what happened in that episode. Yeah, Picard did become a family man. He was like, I didn't think I wanted children and i I do. I want a family. I don't want to be some sad bastard to go die alone in my vineyards. I want to be a part of a community.
00:36:47
Speaker
yeah and ah and And Star Trek Picard says, but what if he was Walter White instead? What if yeah everybody hated him and he sucked? That's well that's that's like a modern trope of you have to deconstruct everything.
00:37:02
Speaker
it's like I think we've reached the end point of being able to deconstruct because at a certain point, you just run out of things to deconstruct. Also, deconstruction is easy. It's easy to destroy something. Yes.
00:37:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think that there's a version of Picard that's much more like a human being, where he's like, I've had enough, and I need to walk away. And I need to i need to realize that i I've done some things to myself that aren't healthy.
00:37:26
Speaker
and And I think, like when i I think about Picard, who I love, I love as a character. um but you know One of my two or three favorite Star Trek characters of all time is Picard.
00:37:39
Speaker
But he has no friends. His closest friends are Data and Q.
00:37:48
Speaker
yeah He is not friends with Reitner. He is not friends with Beverly, who he manages to marry off screen at some point. you know i just Just get pregnant. They don't get married. they They don't get married. Well, it depends on which version of the future you're... That's true. Fair enough. he has like His closest friend is is an android.
00:38:08
Speaker
who Yes. He kind of has a friend and family when he goes back to Earth. There's kind of this suggestion that he had another life, but you're right. by By the end of the run of the series and through the movies, he's a blank slate.
Critique of Modern TV Production
00:38:23
Speaker
he has no He has a terrible relationship with his brother. He has a nephew who he he bonds with. and It's like one of his few close personal relationships who then dies horribly in a fire.
00:38:36
Speaker
And it really doesn't destroy him you know it's like he cries next to troy and then he's gonna go meet captain kirk yeah he's not like the ah the other people on yeah he has to be captain kirk uh the other people on on the enterprise uh the enterprise d is that what we're up to on this and next generation yep that's right enterprise d um their friends um they're not particularly interesting as friends. They're interesting in other ways, but he's not friends with any of them. Like he shows up to the poker game at the very end of the series. and he's like, Oh, I should maybe be a human being.
00:39:12
Speaker
Right. And then the movies just kind of discard that. They forget that they did that. They said that. So
00:39:21
Speaker
so I think, I think in in terms of the perfect mate, mate, in many ways, maybe I'm like, you know I'm projecting on it like the things i would I would like it to be or the things I would like to mine from it. like I don't think about it in terms of of like, oh, Fonker Johnson is someone I want to have sex with.
00:39:37
Speaker
It's like Fonker Johnson is someone I want to fall in love with. And and move back to keep starting play and and it has its own it has its own issues. Everything has its own issues because we're all human beings with our own failings and flaws and insecurities.
00:39:50
Speaker
I like jumping right to the harshest version of ah ah characterization. One, because I'm dealing with Hollywood producers, so I feel like I'm i'm well positioned. What's that?
00:40:01
Speaker
I've noticed that about you. Yeah. um And two, it gets people's attention and then they have to think about it and either try to pull the idea back or sit with it in a way that makes you uncomfortable because it's like, what if that's right?
00:40:14
Speaker
So it's either way. It's a rhetorical. just There's a, I think in particular with modern, the way modern, uh, it's always had its problems, but in particular, the last 25, 30 years of Hollywood TV production in particular, I think has, has created,
00:40:36
Speaker
the person that rises to the top has to be not a good person in some ways.
Writing and Character Dynamics
00:40:42
Speaker
And it's like, there's a, I don't know, that's a bigger, that's a whole big discussion. i think that that the industry has changed in a way that promotes psychopaths.
00:40:56
Speaker
For sure. But I mean, like in 1991, we're still we're still dealing with the casting couch nonsense. And yeah even even people running a syndicated science fiction Saturday afternoon show.
00:41:08
Speaker
They're they're in a position where they're making lots of like it's a thing. It's it's a part of this, whether we want to accept it or not. And yeah and the episode, I think, does a really.
00:41:20
Speaker
given that the episode is kind of the fact that it doesn't come off so gross. And there's definitely been other times in Star Trek where that's not the case. um I think that speaks to the performances. And to be perfectly fair, Michael Piller's house style for what the next generation was, maybe that's where the puritanicalness kind of saved them from getting too gross with it, you know, um but it doesn't true. Let's just to show how easy it is to deconstruct something. We're going to move on to the grades now.
00:41:50
Speaker
christ And we're going to start with great scenes. I have ah three. what What do you have?
00:42:00
Speaker
I really like all the scenes between Picard and Kamala. You know, like I think that those those scenes really. Kamala.
00:42:11
Speaker
Well, see, I can't do it. but Yeah, we we all reprogrammed our brains. Yeah.
00:42:19
Speaker
I will not speak as that orange son of a bitch speaks. I always won't do it. Anyways, I really like those scenes where it's it's Picard and her one-on-one because it's Picard has to deal with intimacy in a way that he's not often asked to.
00:42:36
Speaker
and And she's so great in those scenes. I can't get over, like, as a neophyte actress that she's able to command a scene with an actor of Picard's, of Patrick Stewart's stature, she's More than holds her own.
00:42:52
Speaker
Also, she learned her lines phonetically, I'm sure. This is a Mila Kuna situation. Like English is not her first language. And you can kind of hear it in the accent. But she's only right. like She's only hired for the job like two days before they start shooting herself. Yeah.
00:43:06
Speaker
yeah You know, so she has no time to prepare. It's it's ah it's a great performance. And it it really does harken back to like she could have been in the big sleep. you know, she could have been in, uh, kiss the blood off my hands.
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah. Those, those old film noirs that I really love. And so she's a luring in that old movie star kind of way. And I think that they're, they're evolving relationship in those scenes is, uh, like, I love, I love when she, when she gets him to talk about his childhood, when they're playing the xylophone together and, uh, and Picard, uh, realizes he's revealed something himself and pulls back and she calls him out on it.
00:43:41
Speaker
And not many people call Picard out on those kinds It's not even Beverly, really, from my my recollection. So those are those are the scenes that I really like. There's some other scenes that don't care for as much, but those are the scenes.
00:43:54
Speaker
I can't really divide those scenes out there. i Yeah, I couldn't get into them just because she's, I don't want say subservient, but like she's doing the metamorph, like when a metamorph, like a lot of her lines start with that, and it's just yeah it's serving the kind of Gene Roddenberry concept. Not Gene Roddenberry 60s, Gene Roddenberry 80s. This is our...
00:44:14
Speaker
ah say very But that scene with the ah the space xylophone, the crew was in, like when, at least in that scene, it her pulling, his pulling back compels her to actually talk about herself.
00:44:28
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Which, you know, what you know ah as a mechanical way of keeping him in, like that made him more interested in her. So it could have been either a ploy or whatever. But the point is is, like it told us something about her and it set up the ending. Like what she says, I just decided I am for you.
00:44:44
Speaker
what Whatever. Like she realized that that is my identity for better or worse. Like I didn't know who I was. on so Yeah. ah So I thought that was a nice moment. I like the way it tracks it tracks through the story. Yeah, through those absolutely. Her development through those scenes, I think is what attracts me.
00:44:58
Speaker
And then. just to finish off my great scenes, is in the final scene, the night before her, essentially her wedding. And she's, and this is maybe me buying into the fantasy aspect of it as a heterosexual male. She's completely your type.
00:45:20
Speaker
Yes. This is exactly like a woman that I would be of utterly destroyed by.
00:45:29
Speaker
But to me, like, it but the stories engage with our fantasies and ah and there's nothing wrong with that. No, no, no, no. And so this fantasy of, there's just nothing more powerful than you turn away and ah and and the woman that you are attracted to, a beautiful woman says, don't go.
00:45:50
Speaker
Yeah. And that's a great moment. And it's not a real Star Trek kind of moment. Just please don't leave me. Is that the, I just want to hear your voice and it'll turn lights off you off. He's like, I'll leave the lights on. Like that, that's like, that's film noir.
00:46:05
Speaker
And film noir is kind of like dirty. and And I kind of need to join you on that being a great scene because it's pretty well written. It's pretty well, it's well acted and it's, it's, it is different and it's,
00:46:20
Speaker
if you, at this point in the story, this is, this is the sex scene, you know, for between the two of them. have an i and I think it, I think it works. I didn't put that on my list, but I agree with you.
00:46:33
Speaker
um Mine, my two of my three were those Picard crusher scenes. I thought those were amazing scenes. rewa Like when I usually rewatch for Trek, Mary kill, like three or four times.
00:46:44
Speaker
And each time i just laughed at Dr. Crusher in the first scene where she's like that, slave trainer. That's a really funny scene. The breakfast scene. It's so great. And, and Gates McFadden's so good. Her energy is so good. And Pat and Picard's like, I didn't know that, that she confined to her quarters. And she's like, Oh, it's your ship. Maybe you should know what's going on. His comic, his comic notes.
00:47:08
Speaker
in In a way that I don't know this necessarily on the page. They must have decided to play it comedically. And it works really well because he's feeling like he doesn't want to get involved. And she's put him on his back foot. And then he's like, oh, I'm wrong.
00:47:20
Speaker
Yep. it's And then I like the and in their second scene that he's asking her for advice. But there's innuendo there. There's like a lot of there's kind of some jokes in there. The script is trying to be funny. It's just that tonally the show doesn't direct at all.
00:47:33
Speaker
I'll highlight one of the funniest jokes ever put in the Next Generation episode later on. But, you know, it's it's Cliff Bull, who is not he is a I'm going to get us in on schedule on budget. We're a TV show.
00:47:45
Speaker
You know, he's not shooting to sell jokes necessarily, all that stuff. Yeah, the script, it's not just like kind of a cast off script. There was definitely some care, some thought put in each scene.
00:47:56
Speaker
But I just thought those two scenes between two characters we know very well, it wasn't a different side of their dynamic. It was just, um yes, Picard and Crusher have these breakfasts together, which allows an intimacy.
Star Trek Tropes and Cultural Themes
00:48:09
Speaker
We wouldn't see they couldn't do this on the bridge, let's say. ah So I had those. And I actually put the scene where Data brings Kamala to 10 forward. as a great scene because if you even if you don't like the premise you're probably not watching this episode but if you're in if you're watching it and you're still not against the premise still not with it you still need a scene that shows the premise to the extreme you need to have the space battle uh equivalent and it's like if she is able to using her
00:48:41
Speaker
empathic abilities basically become the perfect mate for whatever man she's around, then we need a scene where a bunch of horny dudes are around her to see how she, and they set up the miners in like the very first line of the episode.
00:48:54
Speaker
you got these so dirty miners in there. We got a great Riker bit in the, in the cargo bay, which neither of us and indicated it was a great scene, but that's all like exposition. But still it's just like,
00:49:05
Speaker
That was just a a scene of contained pressure of like, here we go. Here's the the pre the promise of the premise. And instead of her just fucking everybody, here's her just simply, we see her acting and changing her or performance in front of everybody.
00:49:20
Speaker
There's a lot of good things in that scene. One of my favorite, it's like underplayed, but I thought it was very funny, was Riker sees her and he's like, I gotta go. I gotta leave. I have to leave.
00:49:32
Speaker
I feel like that Worf is, you know, obviously Worf knows what's up. He's heard about this, but Worf is also like human or like humanoid females. He's like not really into the human presenting ones right at this point in his life.
00:49:47
Speaker
And then she finally does something vaguely Klingon-ish and he's like, oh, okay. Now I'm picking up what you're putting down. I love, there's a shot when things are starting to go sideways at the bar and Data's obviously not able to handle it.
00:50:02
Speaker
And there's a shot just of Worf watching. And I think Michael Dorn's performance in that is really great. And just this one little look, he's the, he's the hard ass sheriff in a Western.
00:50:14
Speaker
He's like, I know what's happening here and I'm going watch. And when it gets out of hand, I'm going settle this. And it's like, cause, cause Worf gets treated so badly through a lot of the series.
00:50:25
Speaker
And it's, ah it's like in, to me in season five is when he's coming into his own and like, he's got he's got the character down now. And the writers have got, are not using him as the butt of jokes so much.
00:50:40
Speaker
It's like, this is Worf as like, Worf is a really dangerous person. he's he's He's the Jack Reacher of the Enterprise. Yeah, but that's not really until Deep Space Nine where they're like, that is what he he is the enforcer. like yeah Where Sisko's like, like literally there's an episode where Sisko's like, somebody needs to kill Gowron.
00:51:03
Speaker
yeah I'll say that Dwarf at this point is the toughest man to ever have a Bob haircut. Best Trek tropes. I have a few. Go for it.
00:51:15
Speaker
Oh, Riker is a horndog. Yes. Yeah. I think it's good because... it's, he's not, he's kind of more being caught off guard. He's, it's kind of so subconscious when he leers at women or just kind of checks them out.
00:51:30
Speaker
Like it's second nature. And the fact that he gets not only caught doing it, but it's sort of then causes the exact response he would hope for is, and he's both uncomfortable, but then also like, but I want this.
00:51:43
Speaker
And I think Frakes does a pretty good job of playing both sides of that. but And also it leads to a great punchline, which will be in a great line later. And as you said, at least that moment where as soon as he sees her walking into 10 forward, he's like, i'm out of here.
00:51:54
Speaker
i want go of us again I like Frank's hike. I think Frank's is really good in that scene. And I think it's one of the might Riker, not being a favorite character of mine, but I think it's a really good Riker scene.
00:52:09
Speaker
um Cause like, I, I always found he's a, you know, my initial reaction as a boy, and I've never really grown out of it, is he's a dime store Kirk. And he, his like, his sexual energy is, that I find very off-putting most of the time, which I think is why The Outcast is a really interesting episode because it's a more mature look at Riker.
00:52:32
Speaker
But, and also like, and this is no through no fault of of of Frank's own, but he, the first thing I knew him from was a miniseries in the 80s called North and South. Uh-huh.
00:52:42
Speaker
about the Civil War, and he plays the callow, cowardly, awful brother of one of the main characters. And so that's just my first impression. If I were a metamorph, I impressed on that. And I just like, that's not a reason I want to be around.
00:52:56
Speaker
And so when he was on Star Trek, I've never quite gotten past seeing him as the awful brother of one of the characters in that family. That scene, though, where she kisses him, which we didn't put as a great scene, but like that is a season one scene.
00:53:11
Speaker
ah Yeah, for for sure. And you can hear the synthy music going on and on the background. Anyway, ah the other two I had were data as a buffer. ah the idea that data, because he has no emotions and also because he's an Android and it allows them like, Oh, the ship is in danger and life supports failing.
00:53:28
Speaker
Well, we're all going to pass out, but data can take over the ship. ah We need someone who can't, who's emotion, who has no emotions, data can take over. So there's ah I like that as a trope. It's like a great, you know, you can go to it if you can find the right idea.
00:53:43
Speaker
And then I put the Picard crusher breakfast meetings as a best Trek trope. It's, I don't know. It just says a good trope. It's not something they do a lot, but it's very rare where they're not good or yeah interesting or fun here. They actually work for the story. Did you have any?
00:53:57
Speaker
I had some best tropes. Um, one is that, uh, every alien culture seems to really love, uh, their version of ancient Rome as a, as a place for accomplishing things.
00:54:12
Speaker
So like they, they'd make this big set of, uh, you know they always have They always have a temple that they have to do something in. Yeah. and i And it's extra, and I endorse the extraness of it.
00:54:24
Speaker
In particular, like that set's really cool. It's a nice set. It's a really good set, and they don't use it very much. And so ah I enjoyed that. i'm like I also, I don't know if I put it in best or worst tropes, but cultures having peculiar rituals that Picard has to learn And in this case, it one it's a it's six notes on a xylophone.
00:54:50
Speaker
Yes. its so yeah That's terrible and wonderful. but the same be oh That reminds me of another one is brokering peace, the importance of peace.
00:55:02
Speaker
um This seems pretty obvious, but I've said this recently, like that is antithetical to not just like storytelling today, but I think culturally the United States, the idea of give peace a chance.
00:55:18
Speaker
Let's sue for peace. I think that's anti-American at this point. Those values are not found in our culture. Well, we grew up, and being a little bit older than you, like there was much more of a value put on trying to broker peace.
00:55:31
Speaker
i mean, we weren't always successful, of course, and every nation has a messy history. But there was that, was you know, things were seen as brokering peace in Northern Ireland was seen as a great accomplishment.
00:55:43
Speaker
The Camp David Accords, that was a big accomplishment. That was a positive thing. you know And some of those things worked better than others, but that was that was a value. That was an American value. Exactly. um Now it's not.
00:55:53
Speaker
i think they I think that the one part of that, this is my cynical read, is like, well, in negotiations, people don't always get what what they want. And the perfect negotiations are the ones where both sides are a little uncomfortable.
00:56:05
Speaker
And it's basically what that has devolved into, a little uncomfortable being, yeah, where a lot of people on one side are going to die, and the side that's doing all the killing, some of those people should be a little uncomfortable with the amount of killing that's being done. yeah And that's what peace is now.
00:56:20
Speaker
And it's sick. The corporatization of every aspect of our lives. Yeah. the and the The worst thing that's happened to America is all these people getting MBAs, you know, they because they're just, they're all. Can confirm. Not because I have one, but because I've worked in an MBA program. Yes.
00:56:37
Speaker
All right. were Oh, go ahead. you have more I have one or two others. I love, I really love any scene where Picard is, is trying to understand an alien culture that, that bumps against his, his morals and ideals.
00:56:52
Speaker
So when he's talking to her, he's like basically saying like, but they're prostituting you. And she's like, well, that's not how we look at it. And I always enjoy those scenes because it's, it's a person of authority who doesn't react um in a defensive way. It's like, I want to understand.
00:57:11
Speaker
I don't necessarily agree, but I want to understand. And I think that that's, that's one of the best things of Star Trek, but it also bumps into some stuff of like, I don't know. You go to a place and like, we have slaves. And you're like, but that's wrong.
00:57:22
Speaker
And then they're like, but it's our peculiar institution. It's like, yeah, okay, I have to accept that. I don't know. like That's where star trek Star Trek's ideology gets kind of messy.
Picard's Character Traits
00:57:32
Speaker
But I do enjoy a person of authority like trying to he he legitimately is trying to understand.
00:57:39
Speaker
He's like, I don't want to tell you what to do. I want to understand. This is where there's too much that you could do in such a short amount of time. and And the choices they make to shortcut that.
00:57:50
Speaker
Because I can imagine Cisco or Kirk Not trying to understand saying, I believe that's wrong. However, my mission is this. And maybe Kirk would work within the confines to try to change minds.
00:58:04
Speaker
Or he's like, I'm going to show you how silly this is and I'm going fuck her.
00:58:09
Speaker
Whatever. But the point is, is that, you know there's, there is sometimes there's wiggle room and, you know next generation is kind of antiseptic. And I think you're right. The understanding is the slow play, but I still think it's a great, it's a best Trek trope because it feels very faithful to the, the storytelling.
00:58:27
Speaker
Yeah. Any others? Cause I know we're getting over. No, no, that's good. right. Worst Trek tropes. I have four or five. Yeah. There's a few in this one. Yeah. I I'll go first. Um,
00:58:39
Speaker
Ferengi as a buffoon's ex machina. Yeah. They do it twice. They exist solely to move the plot forward in a ridiculous way. ah And the Ferengi are almost always a low light of every next generation episode.
00:58:54
Speaker
Correct. It's until Quark that the Ferengi turn around. yeah But I will say that their plot makes perfect sense. Yes. yeah She is technically one of the most valuable humanoids in the galaxy.
00:59:04
Speaker
Yeah. Like what their goal is, is, ah is, is a worthy Ferengi goal. However, it's stupid. We're going to get this hot, non-Ferengi woman to just be with us and she'll like us.
00:59:17
Speaker
Like, that is their plan. Their plan is not, i think we're going to sell her off. We're going to sell her to somebody. and That was not mine. that is That makes the most sense, but that wasn't quite how it sounded when they were explaining it to her. It's like, we'll get we'll get her and she'll like us and we'll have hot woman who likes us. there's i they're They're basically the weird science-y in this. Yes, exactly. Yes, that's right. That's what they're doing.
00:59:39
Speaker
it That's probably how it would end up. They would want to sell her, but then they would realize, like oh, no, we want her to like us. yeah And it's a whole comedy right there. But so they were like they're so terrible. like in the And it's like lazy writing, like the plot twist, using them to advance the plot twice that way. They're so annoying. yeah and they're and And in the Federation, which is dedicated to understanding cultures and accepting cultures, they're just like, the Frangier is so annoying. Just fuck these guys.
01:00:05
Speaker
They're just like, right there's blatant racism. like put him Well, let's see, I put that as worst Trek trope, the racism towards the Frankie. They're just, all of them are just like, these guys are the worst.
01:00:16
Speaker
like We have limits to diversity here. yeah Also, they after they assault the Kriosian ambassador, they are sent away to start a shuttle, ah to a starbase via shuttle. Who got that assignment?
01:00:32
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah, it's definitely a Lower Decks episode where something they have to transport. a prisoner That's a good idea. That's a really good idea. There's like that poor lady who's running the transporter. gets one line. Yep.
01:00:43
Speaker
Any other worst tricks? charles I want to be touched on. Oh, I have two, two quick ones. One, every alien species wears terrible clothing.
01:00:56
Speaker
like long clothes and like long gloves that go all the way up your arms. I thought the Creosin ambassador looked cool. And I thought the other one wasn't wearing a flowy gown with gloves. He was more businesslike.
01:01:08
Speaker
there's i i I think that the next generation in general does a poor job with clothes, except that Famke Johnson's wedding dress, both of her dresses are great, but that wedding dress is probably the best costume they ever made for the series.
01:01:23
Speaker
And it's amazing to think that they only had two days to do it. So so like kudos to the costumer and the seamstress because they must have looked at Fanka and gone, like I have this canvas upon which to work and I'm going to bring the highest degree of my ability possible because that wedding dress is fantastic.
01:01:40
Speaker
Well, hold on. The Creosian ambassador, his looked pretty silly, goofy with the it like very looked old style, which then the other ambassador tells us why because costumes are supposed to tell a story too.
01:01:54
Speaker
And the Creosians are very traditional and ceremonial. So it makes a perfect sense that this 200 year old ambassador would wear very, uh, theatrical looking clothing while the other one wears very gray, drab, uh, functional, efficient clothing. They're both awful.
01:02:12
Speaker
They're terrible. Also Picard's dress uniform, but makes him look like he's, uh, his legs are hanging in a bell. Yeah. The dress uniforms have always been silly. The clothes are not great. Um, one other quick one is, uh,
01:02:24
Speaker
perfectly functional item items in the modern day that have no business changing, like a coffee cup or a teacup become like ludicrously shaped. So in in that scene with the tea set and they're drinking tea together with Beverly, like it's just like, that's so hard to wash. Why would you do that?
01:02:45
Speaker
And Deep Space Nine, was explained they have those giant bases because those are basically boat glasses. So that and absolutely they don't tip yeah and tip over. Yep. um Mine were Picard's love of archeology. I don't like it being weaponized here. It was a low hanging fruit for them to get her into him. I don't know. how I think it's a worst structure.
01:03:06
Speaker
And then, and also he's like, so ah he has a thimble, like an an ancient thimble in his ready room. That's silly. And then she's like, there's, they found these ancient tapestries and he's like, but they're so frail. It just, i don't know. It just, not sexy.
01:03:21
Speaker
It was not sexy. Dr. Jones, Indiana Jones would have had a sexier archaeology scene. Okay, let's be clear. Yes, he did. had several. I think it's a really funny scene because she she's clearly manipulating him there.
01:03:34
Speaker
Yes. And she knows that this is the way to his heart. it's such a He makes him such a strange peculiar man because like like we said, he doesn't have friends. He doesn't have intimacy. And his hobby is not living cultures. It's dead cultures.
01:03:46
Speaker
They can't interact with him. He can study them. That's right. You know? next point It is a peculiarity of him as a man. And Picard is so chaste. I put that, they stodgy and boring, even though he weaponizes that, which is good.
01:04:02
Speaker
i still think it's a worse Trek trope of like, What's the outlet? Riker goes to the holodeck. What does Picard do? We don't get that scene. He has he has breakfast with super hot Dr. Crusher and nothing. I just, like I can't, I can't deal with, I'm not even, ah redheads do not register for me except for Gates McBadden. She's beautiful. So I just, I don't. My redheads are top of the list for me. And the poor woman.
01:04:30
Speaker
The poor woman is pining at, but not she's not pining, but she's available for for a real relationship with Picard. And he rejects her so much, she has to fuck a ghost. That's right. ah An alien. And just to be clear out there, it's an alien. It's not a ghost.
01:04:45
Speaker
It's just more fun to say it's a ghost. A spectral presenting alien. That's right. that's Who also fucked her grandmother. And her great great grandmother. She's been a part of the Howard line for a long time. i Yes, the Condal.
01:05:00
Speaker
OK, the but my last worst trick trope. This is maybe just for me, but disrespecting the original series. OK, so Kamala's line, I am for you, is Lucira's famous line in That Which Survives. Lucira was holographic projection protecting this ancient planet.
01:05:19
Speaker
And she would come at you very slowly because it was season three and they had no money. Like, I am for you. then she would touch you and you would die. But that was her famous line. She was played by Lee Merriweather. Oh, basically the Fomka Johnson of her time. Very beautiful lady. Yes. So ah also also that hard to like look at the Batman cat women and be like, well, they're all beautiful. i don't know. I like the idea of this beautiful woman reaching and touching you and you die is basically how Picard feels about him.
01:05:51
Speaker
That's right. That's basically how science fiction writers feel. I love it. I love it. But Picard says, I'm very boring. I go to bed with an old book every night. And I'm like, that's the only thing that's ever been in your bed beside me.
Costuming and Set Design
01:06:03
Speaker
That's right. That's right.
01:06:08
Speaker
Most cosplayable character or moment. So it sounds like you're going with Kamala's wedding dress. Oh, yeah. i think that that's I think it's a beautiful dress. um That's what I picked, too. And then also, the coloring on that and the way it's set up, it reminded me of the the is the dress blue meme.
01:06:24
Speaker
It kind of vaguely looks like the white dress, which the dress is white. Oh, maybe there's people that are watching and they're like, the dress is blue. Yeah, the dress is blue as fuck. It's an incredible piece of... Costumers and seamstress, they work really hard. They work on...
01:06:39
Speaker
tight budgets on on on short notice. And they pulled off a really incredible, I think one of the best costumes of the series. All right. And then now it's time for the line must be drawn. here Great lines.
01:06:53
Speaker
So we've kind of been dancing around a lot of them, but Riker to bridge. If you need me, I'll be in holodeck four. this is after. i was on my list. I'll be at Holodeck for masturbating furiously. That's right.
01:07:05
Speaker
I am leaving this woman's quarters with a massive erection. so i was i love that line. made me laugh both times when watched it. and I think like in the modern day, of our modern day, no one wants anyone to see their internet search history.
01:07:23
Speaker
That's right. That would destroy your life. In Star Trek times, it's nobody look at my holodeck scenarios, please. That's right. No, because that would be the very worst of humanity inside those walls.
Humorous Moments and Lines
01:07:34
Speaker
That's right.
01:07:35
Speaker
Now, this is objectively one of the funniest jokes in Star Trek history. I'm not kidding. It's just not portrayed as like a full on punchline, but that's exactly what it is.
01:07:47
Speaker
It's very funny. The fact that it's delivered so seriously, like it's as urgent as like as like political crisis. It's fantastic.
01:07:58
Speaker
I think that because i I think that in this story, it's supposed to be I'm going to Holiday Four to make sure this this ridiculous temple is correct. But when I watched it, I didn't think about that until like a day later, i was like watching him like, he's going to the hall deck to like- He is unambiguously.
01:08:17
Speaker
Why is he contacting the bridge to tell him where it's he going to be? I'm going to hang up a sign that says, do not disturb me. And you are not to disturb me. yeah Our community culture will not survive this.
01:08:28
Speaker
You did just remind me that that's probably how they were able to get it through the sensors. Where he's like, well, he's going to go look at the the temple. Yeah, obviously. yeah What are you thinking he means? Oh, well yeah yeah, you're right. ah Sorry.
01:08:46
Speaker
That's a good point. That's probably how they did it. That's how they sold it. What else do you have? I have many more. I have. there's ah There's a lot I like here. Related.
01:08:57
Speaker
A line that really made me laugh was not now data. when Picard is talking to him. Basically, love you and I want to be you. And I want to run away with you. And then Data keeps interrupting him with minutiae. And he's like, Data, not now.
01:09:15
Speaker
Not now. The most important thing that's ever happened to me is happening at this moment. And Data even sounds a little hurt. He's like, but Captain, they need you.
01:09:27
Speaker
Not now, man. I don't care if the entire Federation is on fire. Shut up. that I really enjoyed that that. That made me laugh out loud.
01:09:40
Speaker
That's a good point. Oh, keep going. so um The captain dines alone. Which Warp says to the Ferengi. Just his utter disdain when he looks at them. The captain dines alone.
01:09:56
Speaker
Now, you said that it was kind of hokey how did we get the Ferengi the story. At the same time, when the Ferengi, when it acts out, the teaser ends on them after Worf leaves, after saying that, they're like, that was too easy, getting on the Enterprise. I'm like, that's almost a best Trek trope of like, yeah, the Starfleet's there to help.
01:10:14
Speaker
The fact that gets taken advantage is actually kind of... you're right, the Ferengi racism should have been more. It's like, is this the Ferengi taking advantage of us being nice? We should probably...
01:10:26
Speaker
yeah I think it's an incredibly efficient opening. It sets up a lot because they need a lot of space for Picard and Kamala to interact. I think some other good lines were when the Ferengi says to Picard, do you schedule his appointments?
01:10:45
Speaker
Is a really fun line. It made me laugh because like anything you can puncture his self-importance. Yes. And then I had, um, this is the second time the Ferengi popped up during spring flings month. And they basically do the same thing in the price. They're like, Oh good. You're here. Give us some chairs.
01:11:03
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm the captain of the ship. It's like, okay, well get the person who gets us the chairs. The Ferengi bossing him around. That's best use of the Ferengi. That's where they're really useful and not annoying. Um, uh, I think another really great line, couple of these were already touched on. Um, but, uh,
01:11:20
Speaker
When she says, do you find me unattractive? And Picard says, I find you unavailable. um That's just a nice piece of writing. you know where he's he's He's acknowledging tacitly what he won't say directly, which is, I can't find you attractive.
01:11:37
Speaker
I can't allow myself because it it goes against everything that i need to do today.
01:11:43
Speaker
And that's just a nice piece of writing. Crusher. That slave trader who calls himself an ambassador, he has her confined to her quarters. She is a virtual prisoner in there. I didn't know that.
01:11:54
Speaker
Well, it is your ship. Maybe there are a few things you should find out about. Very good writing there. She's like windmill dunking on his ass. It's great. The whole scene. She was crushed a couple of times.
01:12:05
Speaker
You know, we didn't talk about, but like the that second scene where she says, like, where where Where he's like going to her for advice. I'm a little uncomfortable with that scene because Picard has to know that picar that Beverly has feelings for him.
01:12:20
Speaker
No, he's an asshole. No, you're totally right. He's an asshole. And so I was starting to think about the scene of like, I would rather have her say like, Jean-Luc, just go for it.
Beverly Crusher and Guinan's Roles
01:12:29
Speaker
Don't worry about all this other stuff. These people are not going to find peace together via this marriage.
01:12:35
Speaker
You've given up a lot. Just go for it because you're you're killing yourself. And then I started thinking about, like, could Beverly say that? Maybe. and it would be a self-sacrifice on her part.
01:12:46
Speaker
she It would be a demonstration of love and saying, like, I love you and I want this for you. That's the Star Trek way. So she, yeah. Yeah. But also I think she's like been his friend enough to know, like you should just actually do something.
01:13:00
Speaker
but yeah Yeah. You wouldn't take, you wouldn't take me on, but you could, you know, do something, somebody, if it's not me, somebody, this would you know you were, you were captured by the board and you've never really dealt with it.
01:13:13
Speaker
And you, you've given enough, you know, but I also started, then i started thinking about, and I know it's like impossible for, for logistical reasons, but, What if that scene was with Guinan? I know. I have that thought too. I miss Guinan from this episode. except You can't do Guinan talking about a woman being basically treated though.
01:13:31
Speaker
Yeah. You can't have Whoopi Goldberg talking about that. But like Guinan, if I was doing the novelization, there would be a scene. I would put Guinan in that second scene in place of Beverly. And then I would have a scene at 10 forward where, where Kamala is talking with Guinan.
01:13:46
Speaker
come on I think those would be really nice. I'm not doing it.
01:13:52
Speaker
Data's line to the miners, extremely rude behavior. ah Kamala, I'm simply curious to know what lies beneath. Picard, nothing, nothing lies beneath.
01:14:04
Speaker
I'm, I'm really quite dull. i fall asleep each night with an old book in my hands. It's great. It's like, that's where it's like, I think the the writing It rises the middle of an old film noir and kind of a screwball comedy for a second there.
01:14:20
Speaker
It's really wonderful. But just to loop back to that Picard Crusher scene, the second one, Beverly, may I take off the uniform for a moment? Oh, captain. so good. She's like, she knows he's never going to take it off.
01:14:34
Speaker
And then i the the sound of your voice line. Please don't leave.
01:14:40
Speaker
Talk to me.
01:14:43
Speaker
I love the sound of your voice. I'll turn out the lights and just listen.
01:14:51
Speaker
I don't want to be alone.
01:15:04
Speaker
lights stay on.
01:15:08
Speaker
That's a good, there's there's some really great lines. Would this have been a fun holo novel to play out, Corey? No, because it's a tragedy. like There's no fun role to play here, other than like if you're Worf being a badass for a minute. but it's like Or the Ferengi, I guess.
01:15:24
Speaker
Yeah, I can't do It's not fun. Yeah, it's not fun. But like it's a tragedy for Picard.
The Tragedy of Missed Love
01:15:29
Speaker
it's ah He's missing his one true chance at love and and and and a life that actually embraces a full life instead of the limited life he lives.
01:15:38
Speaker
But it's ah it's a terrible tragedy for kamala to have to spend her life with this horrible man. It's, you know, I also think, i want to interrogate that idea a little bit of like, she's she's impressed herself upon Picard. And so she has his his attitudes and feelings and his sense of duty.
01:15:56
Speaker
But the other thing, it won't work. She can't be married to that man if she is Picard because Picard does not suffer fools. And that guy is a fool. Like, and Picard has a temper.
01:16:09
Speaker
So she's going to have a temper. And she's going to walk out on... Well, she never really saw that. But she... but I assume that she she knows more than she sees because of the empathic part.
01:16:21
Speaker
Like, she's fully... she has a full picture of ah who Picard is. so like So she just can't be with, Picard does not suffer idiots. If Star Trek Picard wasn't in such a hurry to tell junky space action stories, you could have had one episode where she's now the president or the that leader of that planet or something. And you could have seen something like that. that Yeah, I would loved to have seen her come back as a character.
01:16:45
Speaker
um The other thing that she would have gotten from impressing on Picard is like, my question to you is, does she now hate children?
01:16:54
Speaker
By this point, Picard does he does not hate children. He's he's come to some sort of peace with it. He's also in season five was definitely when the season that they had disaster where he where he and the kids get through the enterprise together like he's he and the ah the inner light would be coming up.
01:17:11
Speaker
Yeah. So he's, you know, made some peace with kids. she shes She has an uneasy relationship with children. There we go. That's ah exactly So the Anton Crittian Award for Best Performance, are you giving it to Famke Jansen? Hands down.
01:17:22
Speaker
Okay. yeah that's fair I think she's one of the greatest guest stars in the history of Star Trek. So she's in Eastern European descent, right? She's Danish. she's danish Oh, okay. Because while watching her um and really staring at her eyes, and thank goodness for these remasters, they look beautiful.
01:17:39
Speaker
So seeing her in high def. Something about her eyes, maybe was the makeup as well. i don't know. Because one of my favorite movies ever, which is imprinted on my brain, is Ghostbusters. And the the woman who plays Gozer is like an Eastern European model, supermodel.
01:17:53
Speaker
And there's just something about their eyes that have a vague similarity. Now, obviously, Gozer's wearing contact lenses and looked their
Famke Jansen's Performance
01:18:00
Speaker
pupils look different. But like there's something kind of weirdly silvery or smoky about the eye section.
01:18:05
Speaker
So it just it was just weird to watch her. But in her voice... What I like about when people learn their lines phonetically, there's a musicality to them. And so you can hear her accent slipping in, you can also hear how she's basically repeating sounds.
01:18:20
Speaker
and And so it's a mate what's amazing about the performance is that she's able to imbue it with a emotion that's organic to what she's saying. And I think it's mainly because Star Trek's not so complicated, but the writing is like, this is how she feels in the scene is very clear.
01:18:37
Speaker
And so she's able to just play that. And then the words can kind of, it's not that difficult to match. Well, i think that in watching her performance, she's, she's having a lot of fun. Like this is a playground for her as a performer. And she's not, she's not afraid.
01:18:51
Speaker
That's why I like the 10 forward scene so much because it really, you have to sell it. And she sells it very well about this is what could, this is the problem. This is what the ambassador was worried about. She's an extraordinarily confident performer for somebody who's really, this her first acting role.
01:19:08
Speaker
And right that's, ah that, that just, that just shines through like, and, and, and with a lesser character, there's This episode would be utter trash without that strong performance at its center.
01:19:20
Speaker
That's right. It would be irredeemable. i mean the I'm sure, and also the X-Men of it all, which we didn't even talk about. but like I think it's weird that then she'd be... don't know. It is weird. It feels weird.
01:19:30
Speaker
It wouldn't have been strange at the time because X-Men isn't until 2000 and this is like an 1892 episode. But like it is weird watching it now with that knowledge of like, oh, do they have like a father daughter relationship. Yep.
01:19:43
Speaker
X-Men films. Yep. But just 10 years earlier, she was she was the younger woman and the older man. All right. the ah So then the Shatner, who do you give it to? This could go to anybody. Really. There's a lot of choices. Shatner is like you're going for it.
01:19:56
Speaker
Right. It's going for it. It can be bad if you're like, I want to, I think this performance was so bad and they were really trying, but it didn't work. That's fine. But yeah, I always try to to keep it to like, they had two takes. Yes.
01:20:08
Speaker
yes Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love William Shatner in all his Shatner-ness in his many variations. Yeah. I'm Captain Kirk! You know what I mean?
01:20:18
Speaker
It's just times where he's going for it. Yes, yes. no Yes. ah The emotionality of it, which I'm very much drawn to. The actor that plays Ulrich is really going for it in the sense of making him as detestable and hateful as possible in the shortest amount of time.
01:20:35
Speaker
He reminds me of Mr. Collins from Pride and Prejudice. That's a great call. I was thinking more than what like Palpatine before he turns into... That's a good one too. Just like the horrible viciousness and smarmyness and crassness and not very smart.
Ulrich as a Villain
01:20:53
Speaker
Although Palpatine is probably pretty smart.
01:20:55
Speaker
I also like that he's smiling like politely and then he... It's not bad acting. He drops the smile into like a frown in between the politeness.
01:21:05
Speaker
ah but Like there's acting going on there, but you're right. He is going for a piece of shit. That kiss that yes is one of the the most awful experiences in all of Star Trek. Like yeah worse than destroying Vulcan.
01:21:18
Speaker
um Great job. Sniveling ambassador shithead. Yes. yeah here Interesting. I looked up that actor. He became a publicist. Oh, interesting. Which tracks with his character.
01:21:29
Speaker
ah That's true. Good call. Cold-blooded Corey. I like the other ambassador. i he would have been my honorable mention for Anton Crudion. I thought he was in like a nice energy and a good voice. Oh, he's a great actor. I mean, his name's Tim O'Connor or Tom O'Connor.
01:21:43
Speaker
I knew him from Buck Rogers. Oh. He was one of the main characters in Buck Rogers. He was like Buck's kind of like supervisor, wise elder person.
01:21:54
Speaker
And so like as a little kid, I loved that show. And then it's like excited. Anytime I saw him, he's one of those guys that has like 120 credits. Oh yeah. You can see why he's like instantly effortlessly good.
01:22:06
Speaker
And it's like, Oh, he fits. you um We don't usually give this out, but we have to now. And usually it is when this Picard and Crusher have breakfast, the Astro burger award for food styling goes to, well, the candidates are the croissants that they eat or the really It's been sitting out for most of the day, bowl of fruit salad that's in front of the card.
01:22:26
Speaker
And I'm going to give it to the croissants because the croissants look pretty stale when they bite into them. I was thinking when I was watching that, like, Moments before, those croissants were were taken out of a little plastic individual wrapper and sat on a plate, and they're awful. They're from craft services. They've been sitting on that table in those little plastic wrappers for weeks.
01:22:46
Speaker
The most, we rushed down the street to pavilions to grab some food. you they They look terrible. ah Shoot to thrill, most exciting image or sequence?
01:22:58
Speaker
I really love when he, when Picard walks into Kamala's quarters for the first time, And he walks in and she's seen in the mirror over his shoulder.
01:23:09
Speaker
And then they then they put her out of focus for a little while. And it's a really interesting choice of keeping her off the frame.
01:23:20
Speaker
And it works in a film noir sense to me. And also it kind of positions her as something that's in Picard's mind instead of in his eyes. Oh, I like that. That's really good.
Kamala's Personal Desires
01:23:30
Speaker
That's interesting because Cliffall also does when he first comes in,
01:23:37
Speaker
She's being reflected in the mirror on the left side of the frame, and he's standing in the doorway on the right side of the frame. And then the scene gets bookended with when he leaves, she's just kind of alone with her own reflection. And I thought that was a nice shot. It's a nice introduction shot of how you get people into a room in interesting way. But I kind of like yours better because it puts us more into Picard's frame of mind. I'm not sure what the image...
01:24:01
Speaker
does that I pointed out other than kind of look interesting because who is she? She's left with herself. She doesn't like being left with herself. I think is maybe the whole thing, but then what does that mean? You know what i mean? You know what it was? It mean for her to be left to herself and you already got at this. Like what if she like took up an interest in something that was like,
01:24:20
Speaker
dangerous and would distract her from what she was really supposed to do. And we don't get any of that. Anyway, yours more interesting because it stays on the message of the perfect mate. You know, what is this idea in men's minds?
01:24:31
Speaker
I think that makes sense. What part of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy?
Duty, Honor, and Intimacy
01:24:35
Speaker
but I would hope that they would say that duty and honor can like really be unhealthy coping mechanisms for not dealing with your intimacy issues.
01:24:48
Speaker
but You have to have a fuller life because otherwise you'll break. ah I think that's a good one. That's a good one. The balance. that I don't know that the Starfleet Academy might be indoctrinating you towards what Picard is doing rather than away from it.
01:25:04
Speaker
I agree. i have. This is one of the times where I couldn't. Like put in a curriculum, something that that felt good to me. So I kind of just did a joke. And that is some women really do be for men.
01:25:22
Speaker
You may not like it It might make you uncomfortable to hear this. that's Some women. Anyway, could this episode have been hornier and would that have made it better?
01:25:33
Speaker
So it's a two part question. I don't think it, I mean, anything could be hornier and I generally vote for more horny, but this episode, I i don't want it to be hornier and it would definitely make it worse.
01:25:48
Speaker
I put yes and yes. I think it could have been. i think Picard, I think, you know, I go back. You mentioned the noir style. I think you're totally actually right. And that is their sex scene. that i can I'll turn off the lights and listen to your voice in the dark.
01:26:01
Speaker
What I think what it was blocking me was Patrick Stewart's performance. And I think we didn't see enough of the collar unbuttoned for him.
01:26:12
Speaker
We didn't see him sweating enough, I don't think. And I think that's what would have been missing. So the look she gives Riker in the cargo bay. Uh-huh. That is a fucking horny moment. And that's great. And she's given it and he's like surprised. And I'm like, I think we needed something like that with she and Picard.
01:26:31
Speaker
Yeah. And and that's what was missing. And I think that would have made it better because to your point, we need to get under the hood. i think it's also like, let's see a different side of Picard. Did we actually really see a different side of Picard?
01:26:44
Speaker
We don't. Treated this like any other problem. Yeah. any other ethical conundrum he came across when instead
Picard's Choice of Love
01:26:52
Speaker
it's it's this should have been driven by his d and b's his dick and balls like just like saying like go to her you know it's like he goes to beverly with the question that only reicher or wharf could maybe help him well can't help him although data's had sex as many times on the show as picard has But like Picard, it isn't a regular problem because this is like, you can make a life choice here that would change your entire life.
01:27:18
Speaker
And like the most important, one of the most important decisions you can make is deciding to be with someone, you know, like as a couple for forever, like to be bonded together like that.
01:27:30
Speaker
That's an internet meme. i risk it all I'm a alone on and you're married. But so can interrogate that offline. but but but But, well, Fomka is inherently gives off a lot of sexual energy. So, like, she she throws a little smile at Worf that would destroy most men.
01:27:50
Speaker
yeah And then she does a little smile somewhere and she kind of tugs on her lip a little bit with her tooth. And i've just yeah right like it's like, oh, wow. Like, she's in command of a lot of things. And, like, having that beauty and understanding how to use it is a really interesting tool to have. And not...
01:28:08
Speaker
Just being beautiful isn't enough. Like she has, you have to understand the playing field and how to play, how to use these things. And and she's somebody who understands that. Where you could have plugged in like, ah you know, so you throw Kate Upton into this, right?
01:28:23
Speaker
And she doesn't understand those things. Like she understands some things, but she doesn't, she can't play on that field. Hot versus sexy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. and all I'm saying is yes, all of her moments that we are, you're spotlighting. Those are horny, sexy moments. I'm saying the way it made it hornier is just like, we needed the Picard. Yeah.
01:28:43
Speaker
look, what does Picard look like? A little horny. And, you know, that's, that would have been maybe uncomfortable, but he's, he's bringing around on it a little. You know, when she touches his bald head, that was, that was horny.
01:28:57
Speaker
I, maybe I should back off, but there's something kind of not sexy. Maybe it was just the way it was shot, but you're totally right. That kind of his reaction to it. I don't know. It just, there's something here about that because like I took it as like,
01:29:12
Speaker
Like most men are sensitive about being bald and she goes right for it. and Right. Well, that was what was so
Missed Opportunities in Picard's Story
01:29:18
Speaker
popular. Yes. we like yeah To be like, you might be inen you might be sensitive about this, but I find it attractive. It's the first time that she touches it, I think, and she chooses to touch his bald head. that's like They could have explored that there.
01:29:34
Speaker
And I think you've convinced me that a little more horniness and seeing what a horny Picard looks like. Yes. is Is an interesting idea. That would have been fun to see him pull back from that even.
01:29:44
Speaker
Right. And I think Patrick Stewart is like actually an amazing actor to do that with because you'd be able to see. It's breaking at a hundred miles an hour. You could, that would have been fun to watch. You imagine if fox Johnson intimately touched the side of your face and Like what that do to you?
01:30:05
Speaker
i I can imagine the times it's happened to me and I can be like, okay, yeah, it's does it kind of doesn't matter who it is. yes But you take that like, yeah. you know Also, because I'm so short, that would ah now that you're making me think of that that about that, it would be very funny and kind of weird.
01:30:25
Speaker
It'd be like. Well, like she'd be like, hey, little boy you have something on your chin. That's what it would be like if I'm good at it to me. Well, we would stand you on an Apple box.
01:30:38
Speaker
like Ah, there we go. Sorry, Petra Stewart in some of these seats. It is unusual. like i'm I'm taller. um i'm I'm six feet tall.
01:30:49
Speaker
And it is unusual the times I've been close to women that are my height. It feels it's, it's, it's definitely a different experience. I just, as everyone's taller than me, I, at some point in my life, when I stopped growing, I just is like, just default. Everyone's taller than me. So even people shorter than me, I'm like, they're taller than me. I just, some people are taller than me and I can see the tops of their heads. Like they're still taller.
01:31:17
Speaker
All right. So track, marry or kill the perfect mate.
Should You Watch This Episode?
01:31:21
Speaker
um It's an easy track for me. you know like I would watch this episode. If this episode came on, I'd be excited to watch it.
01:31:28
Speaker
um It has its flaws. It has its things you can interrogate. But ultimately, i i really enjoy the the interaction between those two actors. I think those scenes are are very interesting to me.
01:31:40
Speaker
There's other things in the episode i don't I don't care for as much. Well, some of them you've brought me around on. It's an easy track for me. I also put it as a Trek. ah some I know there's going people out there who are just like they're against the human trafficking aspect of it, the whole thing that Beverly Crusher.
01:31:55
Speaker
So they're already against it. Fine. Fair enough. I'm not going to try to convince you of that. But like in the oeuvre of Star Trek, this is a... Even though we're pointing out the picadillos, the grossness that's definitely lurking under the scenes, this is not like some of the most blatantly misogynistic like dramatization. like the The scene work is not as inherently grotesque as some other episodes that people claim are more fun.
01:32:21
Speaker
This isn't campy, though, but it's kind of... There's a noir aspect. It's not romantic. It's sexy at times. Famke Jansen's performance. if you're If you're just curious about a person...
01:32:33
Speaker
doing an English performance is like their first onscreen performance. Like this is great. Um, good chemistry. It's I don't know. Is it like a great Picard episode? We don't really learn anything about him. Like I said, it's got season one, season two vibes to it, but it's like a, it's a solid episode. So it's, I agree with you. It's track. I like, I, I found myself, I enjoyed it.
01:32:54
Speaker
Like I went into it thinking like, Oh, I'll probably like this episode again. I haven't seen it in like two decades, but, um, I'll probably enjoy it again. And then watching it, I came to appreciate a lot of things about those performances that I really enjoyed. And for an episode with almost no action in it whatsoever, it's a pretty breezy watch.
01:33:13
Speaker
like i I wasn't bored, yeah which I'm always a little worried about revisiting things I enjoyed when I was a teenager about like pacing and how going to feel about them I've become quite disconnected from Star Trek, as we've discussed a little bit.
01:33:30
Speaker
over the years. And this was a really nice way to step back into that pool. aye i did really enjoy this episode. I did really enjoy this series. And it was a valid experience when I was young.
01:33:45
Speaker
I think if you like Captain Picard, this is an episode. If you focus just on the Patrick Stewart, John Luke Picard aspect of it, Star Trek fans, this is one that you can get through no problem. And that is what where it works the best yeah as is interesting to watch how he deals with all this. All right, Corey, this is your first podcast.
01:34:04
Speaker
Yes. You are a grown ass man. And finally, after all these years, I wore you down. I'm a 51 year old white guy and I made 51 years without doing a podcast, which makes me a unicorn of some sort.
Corey's Documentary Work
01:34:16
Speaker
That's right. So people can't listen to you anywhere else. This is for now an exclusive, yeah but is there anything you want to plug or give attention to for listeners out there?
01:34:26
Speaker
Um, well, I work in the, uh, in the documentary world and post-production and i'm currently, um, working on a ah show for Netflix that's about the NBA, and it's called Starting Five. If you like Star Trek and you like basketball, you should check out Starting Five. It'll premiere in the fall.
01:34:44
Speaker
If you're not into basketball, I also worked on ah documentary about Tina Turner. It's on HBO and was nominated for three Emmys and is really ah great, great film about an iconic figure in in American history, American popular culture. Really?
01:35:01
Speaker
So, you know, I work in a technical capacity on these things, but but I'm very proud of both projects and Tina in particular he's ah is near and dear to my heart. If Tina Turner, when she was live, she had touched the side of my face.
01:35:15
Speaker
I think I would have burst into flames. Yes. I watched a lot of footage of Tina back in the 60s. And let me tell you, nothing wrong with Tina. Nothing wrong with the I guess.
01:35:25
Speaker
Just ah a lovely woman and an amazing musical talent. That was like one of the first I remember as a child, like. she she that was her comeback her the what's love got to do with all that stuff so that's how i learned tina turner and it's just like uh wow what an amazing person right away and then you learn more about her like oh my god her life well i learned so much about her because i didn't really know too much about i had vague i had vague knowledge of her life in the 60s but nothing about like what was going on the seventy s so it's a highly illuminating um uh documentary and uh and
01:36:00
Speaker
and directed by ah Oscar-winning documentarians who really brought their all to it. like it's It's a great film. All right, so that's going to conclude our Spring Flings month. it's been It's been some kind of fun watching Star Trek try to figure out how to make these characters have sex.
01:36:20
Speaker
yes and And it's over now. and We had a lot of fun. Corey, it's been great having you on. I'm glad you came on and I was fully clothed the whole time. and And I think it worked out great.
01:36:32
Speaker
Well, as far as the far as the listeners can tell. That's right. I'm going to delete that part. So people just hear that. But maybe it's more suspicious if I say, as I was fully clothed the whole time, that maybe people would wonder that something.
01:36:47
Speaker
I guess I'll see you at our fantasy baseball draft. Yes, we have to schedule that. Yeah. no one's No one's stepped up to do it yet. I've been exhausted from work. So it was very nice to spend a morning ah talking about something we both love and sorry you a chance to interact with you again.
01:37:02
Speaker
i I won last year, so I think that's why no one's bothering to get going again this year. Like once Murphy won the league, it's time to shut it down. All right, Corey, thanks again. We're TrekMerryKpod on social media, trekmerrykillpod.com on the web.
01:37:22
Speaker
Next month, we're going to get into our final theme month of our season. And that is, i haven't found a good word for naming for this. So it's just basically Star Trek Deep Space Nine was good from the start, but it got really good in season three. So we're calling it DS9 Season three' s Leap Forward.
01:37:39
Speaker
don't know. but Listeners, if you can come up with a different label, let me know. But we're going to look at ah episodes from the third season of Deep Space Nine next month. going have a special guest to start with Defiant.
01:37:50
Speaker
Don't forget our animated spotlight is also on the first of the month. So until then, until next week, 10KM. Fire Freddy's.