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LD: "Mining the Mind's Mines" & "Room for Growth" (s3e3-4) with Katie Hampton
125 Plays21 days ago
COME ON, CAROL! In this month's animated spotlight, Bryan and Katie Hampton of Geekscape's Napping Through Happy Hour Podcast take a look at a pair of Lower Decks episodes that are half character assassinations of Captain Carol Freeman. Are the other halves funny, though?
Jump straight to "Room for Growth" at (33:44).
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Transcript
Introduction to Trek, Mary, Kill Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
This month on Trek, Mary, Kill, Stones, Secrets, Masks, Energize. Trek, Mary, Kill.
00:00:13
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Katie. Welcome to Trek, Mary, Kill, a podcast where the hosts are afraid their brains are going to explode with Star Trek.
Katie's Return and Initial Reactions to Enterprise
00:00:23
Speaker
It's our monthly animated spotlight and returning is Katie Hampton from the Napping Through Happy Hour podcast. Katie, welcome back.
00:00:29
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me back, Brian. Always a pleasure to have you. I kind of blew it by asking this off the air, but you have started watching Star Trek Enterprise. i I have, yeah. i For some reason, it was one of our conversations that I was like, I should really check that out.
00:00:45
Speaker
And boy, what a pilot. ah Your Honor, or may I enter into the record, Exhibit a your texts reacting to Enterprise. ah Please go ahead, Reed, because they were mostly angry.
00:01:00
Speaker
We very rarely text each other. It's always just like, hey, are we doing this? And that's it. Scott Bakula Dick! Jesus! FMAO!
Humorous Moments and Criticisms of Enterprise
00:01:13
Speaker
Katie was not prepared for watching the decon chamber scenes in 75-inch HDTV. and No, yes, because my husband just got an amazing TV. We haven't really spoken since the holidays, but ah he just got a giant TV that he got on sale ah for Black Friday, and it was just...
00:01:32
Speaker
Full on. I mean, so the Scott Bakula dick was when he was just in his undies and he's just like hanging out in his quarters, but it was just full on. Did you stuff that Bakula?
00:01:43
Speaker
What the hell? When we did it for Trick, Marry, Kill, we were noting like they definitely went to a laundromat, got a roll of quarters, stuck it in there, making sure. yeah Those are prosthetic nips onto Paul. Like they were definitely like leaving no stone unturned.
00:01:58
Speaker
ah yeah Let's see a couple of others. I'm shutting the windows. I'm legit getting embarrassed. like So big. Everyone can see your What's the ah song Frank's inch TV. Like,
00:02:15
Speaker
She'd be like, that's what's going on, except it's Scott Bakula's stuffed underwear from the Enterprise pilot. My God, the early 2000s were so up their own ass. that That was in response to what do you think about the theme song?
Recap and Analysis of 'Mining the Mind's Mines'
00:02:30
Speaker
I'm pretty sure that text. That is correct. So as we figured out in in our episode with the Enterprise Splaining crew, Paramount Plus...
00:02:41
Speaker
is torturing its audience because it is the only theme song out of all the Trek shows, and I went and checked, that delays the skip intro button. Every other one, it's instant, but they make you listen to, it's been a long road. As soon as I hear that, Mark will sometimes sing that to me just to annoy me. He'll be like, it's been a long, I'm like, no, stop it. To get you out of the mood. Exactly.
00:03:09
Speaker
I got to work another hour, babe. It's been a long road. yeah You're like, I'm going on a run. Honestly, yes. honestly yes My goodness. All right. This one, two episodes of Lower Decks, episodes three and four of the third season, starting off with Mining the Mind's Minds.
00:03:30
Speaker
It's the third episode of Star Trek Lower Decks third season. It premiered on Paramount Plus September 8th, 2022, written by Brian D. Bradley, directed by Phil Marks Saga-Draka. And I really, after watching this episode, feel very strongly that this was written during lockdown.
00:03:47
Speaker
Yeah, something. a so It feels like a first season episode, I'm not going to lie Because I think there's like some similarities. Yeah, the episode description. Memory Alpha describes it as, on a remote science outpost, stone orbs are bringing fantasies to life. Tendi starts her first day as a senior science officer trainee.
00:04:06
Speaker
What Memory Alpha isn't telling us is that the stone orbs have been planted by these scientists, excuse me, by the the native inhabitants, the indigenous people, the scrubble. And they are able to access people's minds. And then these plant these ah scientists who have been studying the Scribble have aligned with them to take the information gathered from these stones and basically gather, extract classified information.
00:04:32
Speaker
I guess to sell it eventually. ah Meanwhile, Tendi is paired with Dr. Meglimo as a mentor for this training program, and she's nervous about it. He advises her to assert herself in order to be noticed by Captain Freeman, an idea that in true Tendi form goes wrong until it doesn't.
00:04:48
Speaker
So just everything just works out. And back on the planet dealing with this, this plot with the stones, Mariner, Boimler and Rutherford are helping to dispose of them, but they're doing it alongside the crew of another California class ship, the USS Carlsbad.
00:05:03
Speaker
And there's some tension between the two of them, which the Cerritos trio views as like, Oh, we must have a bad reputation amongst the fleet. And we find out that's not the case at all. They're super famous because they do cool stuff.
00:05:15
Speaker
And, and the Carlsbad crew is jealous.
Legacy Characters and Fantasies in Lower Decks
00:05:20
Speaker
On that note, Memory Alpha reminds us this episode references several past incidents experienced by the Lower Deckers aboard the Cerritos, including Boimler and Rutherford's descriptions of that Klingon who took off in the ship and he was drunk from the episode Envoys.
00:05:36
Speaker
But that that's not real. OK, that's all right. That's kind of a weak sauce. adventure, because man that was mainly a mariner adventure. Anyway, the time they tussled with Mugatus, Mugatu Gumatu, our first kill...
00:05:49
Speaker
Could that be a portent, Katie?
00:05:54
Speaker
Just throwing that out there. and The two times they tussled with the pack lids, no small parts, and Wedge Dudge. The time they, quote, scared the crap out of that drill instructor, I excretus, and the latter description by the Carlsbad Lower Deckers to the time the Cerritos Lower Deckers stood strong in an alien trial that was clarified as more of a party in the episode Veritas, which you liked and I loathed.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah. This was an episode that featured yet another appearance by a legacy character. ah Namely, this is the illusion of Dr. Leah Brahms, who previously appeared as hologram that Geordi was very creepy with in the Next Generation episode of Booby Trap. And then in the real life version, he thought, this sex bot that I made will surely be similar to the real person I'm meeting.
00:06:40
Speaker
And that was not the case. That was in the episode Galaxy's Child. And Kukulkin, who previously appeared in the animated series episode How Sharper Than a Serpent's Tooth. My last little note here.
00:06:51
Speaker
The appearance of Kordi is the first appearance of the Zaldan since the TNG season one episode Coming of Age, which aired 34 years previously. And I think that's the episode where Wesley Crusher...
00:07:03
Speaker
Yeah, he befriends... the Okay, yeah. He befriends someone, I think, with the webbed fingers. so i was wondering, because when I was watching I was like, oh, wait a minute. I never caught that before. What's with the webbed hands? And then I went on a deep dig, and it was just... Yeah, he's a Zelda. That's right.
00:07:18
Speaker
And I actually think ah this is an oddly prescient episode about private forces conspiring to hijack the public's data and use it for personal gain. All right, let's get into the grades. Great moments.
00:07:32
Speaker
I did love the moments when ah we got to see everybody's fantasies and then we finally get we get Mariner's fantasy is just like a steady girlfriend that supports her.
00:07:44
Speaker
That's right. So they're putting all these rocks away. And I thought it would be if you touch them that it would cause the thing that the the fantasy to come to life. But that's not quite it. They're wearing gloves and they're using tongs, but it's they still come to life.
00:07:57
Speaker
and And apparently they're supposed to dissipate after a few hours, but they don't. They just think kind of they they'd either disappear immediately or stick around. But yeah, that was hers. Boimler's was being promoted to captain. Yeah.
00:08:09
Speaker
And Rutherford's was basically ah making the warp drives more efficient with Leobrom's. yeah so I love that the only engineer basically has all of Geordi's fantasies.
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:26
Speaker
Oh, I heard that song. I just thought it was an opportunity to learn more about Rutherford. And, and no, we, they're like, let just do a yeah, let's do a Star Trek reference.
00:08:37
Speaker
um So that was all right. Any others? um i I did, i i hate was not a fan of Migly Mo being the science officer, but I did really love the moment where Teddy is talking to Dr. Tana and she's like, you know, there's going to be times where you have to deal with other people that aren't specifically in the field that you're working on.
00:08:58
Speaker
um So you This is kind of the way like that moment where she was like, yeah, this isn't the perfect mentor, but this is a good mentor for you to be exposed to new people.
00:09:09
Speaker
And I think that's a great call, actually, because that's why we do great moments instead of scenes, because I actually appreciate the moment. I don't think it's like an amazing scene, but Tana has always been in Tendi's corner.
00:09:22
Speaker
Yeah. And i don't know why, Tendi has never taken that lesson.
Themes of Rumor and Reality in Lower Decks
00:09:26
Speaker
She's never like as internalized. Then at the end of the day, Tendi's always backing her up. um i But you're totally right. We're taking the spotlight.
00:09:34
Speaker
yeah you know Her family is always super harsh and and whatnot, and they're all battle-ready. And so she doesn't really quite understand people who are battle-ready, like Dr. Ta'ana, and then also has caring for her and her growth.
00:09:49
Speaker
Right. ah Best Trek tropes. um I put ah realizing that rumor and stories are often more insane than reality. um They thought Boimler was a robot. Which I thought was great.
00:10:02
Speaker
He's just basically a C-3PO in their mind. That's right. That's fair. yeah I put planetary scientists getting into trouble.
00:10:14
Speaker
okay yeah I like that as a trope. I think it's a good setup. Some classic Star Trek episodes have happened for that. Who watches the Watchers is the one that immediately comes to mind. But then also you get the ah downside, insurrection.
00:10:27
Speaker
You know, so it's like... You know, Devil in the Dark is not quite the same. They're minors. But, you know, like it's a good setup of either people studying or like in on the planet for some reason, but they're not native to there and there's a problem. It's a good...
00:10:43
Speaker
It's a classic one. um if you can If you can't do distress calls, do the planetary scientists in trouble? Oh, devils do. That's another famous one where the the scientists are like, this prophecy says that tomorrow is the day that their god returns and enslaves them. And they they've taken some of us hostage. Just kind of crazy, Enterprise. Come get us. <unk>s like that's I like those stories if they're dead the done well. I appreciate that. Illusion Rocks.
00:11:10
Speaker
I think it's actually, ah ah you know, they've done this in the the thing that Memory Alpha cites is shore leave, you know, but the idea that something about the planet is making your fantasies come true. it's ah It's a solid Trek trip, I think. But what I really like here is the twist that it's actually being used, kind of monetized to do the scraping, to do the intelligence gathering. I thought that was a nice combination.
00:11:34
Speaker
Yeah, I really like that twist. I remember going into this episode and just being like, I can't remember if I like this or hate this one. And there are parts that I really like, and there are parts that I'm like, I could do it without. But the twist on this is actually really nice and feels very accurate to modern day and a little bit. Yeah. the nose Yeah, i I don't bump on it. i I think it's like a really good because it's kind of all the examples I gave of it's great when the scientists are distressed that I like the idea that it's all kind of ah an act as well. That's ah another classic. Just yeah that's as a dramatic
Millennial Anxiety and Fame in Lower Decks
00:12:05
Speaker
trope.
00:12:05
Speaker
Worst Trek tropes. I have two. um i have one and it's just either it's in either the episodes are hurrah starfleet your ship fucking sucks and ours is awesome and so that that was a little bit annoying to me like just the like i don't know animosity between ships that doesn't seem to always really be a thing Yeah, I think I've railed against, you've had to listen to a rant about the Starfleet classism, but that I had that there too.
00:12:36
Speaker
but I kind of just think there's an an element to that in this case that is indicative of our rotting culture that we live in. yeah I sound like an old person, but the idea that being a celebrity is, is like the most important thing.
00:12:50
Speaker
And I think that idea is actively harmful. And, and I, and I really don't like seeing it in Star Trek. There's like, it, it's only been introduced recently. It is not from the Roddenberry time.
00:13:01
Speaker
It wasn't about the enterprise being famous. Everyone had a job to do, which is, I think actually, ah much better an idea. We're all working together for a common reason, not so that some of us can be more famous than others.
00:13:16
Speaker
And I think the counter that is like a very postmodern cynical take where you're like, oh, you're saying Captain Pike wasn't famous or this or that. I'm like, maybe, but probably not in the way that we consider fame to be today.
00:13:27
Speaker
Right. Well, and I think it's the reflection on the fame whilst the person is still around or still alive, or you're saying it to that person where it's like, oh, well, you don't want to tell them that because then they might not do the great thing. Like like the crossover episode that we had with Strange New Worlds. Which everybody except me loved. so yeah No, we married it. I'm just kidding. But that was the basic that was that there was no story without that whole thing.
00:13:54
Speaker
I can't always apologize for your opinions. Yeah. But it's one of those things that were it's like I feel like there is a lot of commentary, especially in Star Trek nowadays, where we're reflecting on what it means to be famous.
00:14:09
Speaker
And I agree. I don't think famous people should be lauded as much as they are unless it's somebody who's making great contributions.
00:14:19
Speaker
And the Cerritos, not necessarily making great contributions, but they are making progress. So... Yeah. And there's a part of me that that is kind of like it makes sense that some people crew have reputations. That's a Star Trek thing that that makes sense. It's ah ah basically a military organization, too.
00:14:39
Speaker
And these ships, this or that. But when once we get to you're the enterprise of Cali class ships, I'm like, who is that? Yeah. Why do fans of Star Trek Lower Decks need to feel like they're being rewarded for watching the show? Like, my crew is that important.
00:14:53
Speaker
It just seems very baby-brained. I don't know. i just It bumps me. it just takes me out of out of what it's about. Anyway, the other one I had was reference humor. We've got a Spock reference. He wrote... he if He wrote the foreword to this manual or he wrote the manual. I don't know. The Leia Brahms reference. Like these are just just tired. of we can't think of something better. So we're going to put a Star Trek reference it And I think in this case, it kind of that was all they had. I'm trying to think of jokes that were independent of.
00:15:23
Speaker
a reference, like even their fantasies recalled, except for Jennifer, they were called to mind ah some other Star Trek reference. And so it's just, the again, the Rutherford thing, especially really rubbed me the wrong way.
00:15:38
Speaker
They're like, dude, that's your fantasy. And I'm like, who is this? Who is this joke for? Who is it? If you've never watched Lower Decks or if you never watched Star Trek and Lower Decks is your first introduction into Star Trek, which I think is the case for a lot of people.
00:15:52
Speaker
but This is not the tone of Star Trek. Like, if you were to watch it and then go and watch the live action, it's serious. When they tell jokes, the jokes usually aren't funny. They're not trying to be funny. They're trying to tell a dramatic story.
00:16:04
Speaker
And I'm not saying that this undermines the Leia Brom thing. I'm saying, like, what is the... and Like, if you were taking her completely out of context to drop her in here, I know what that story's about.
00:16:16
Speaker
So right how is this funny? It's not... It's just... That's a ah proper noun that I recognize. That's it. It feels like I feel like the the things that you bump on a lot of the time are usually just just the reference jokes that are like, if you're if you've seen it, you get it. And if you have it.
00:16:35
Speaker
Oh, well, if you've seen it and you get it, you still have the extra step of, OK, so what's the joke? Right. What's funny about this? That i I understand. It's more just a reference joke. And like a reference joke is like any of us quoting Anchorman. It feels a little bit like, oh, yeah, oh, that's that's fun. He has the same fantasy as Geordi LaForge does.
00:16:57
Speaker
I don't think there's much more to that. I think it's a weak written joke. Sure. agree. Yeah. I'm not saying it's a strong joke. I'm a strong joke. Well, Run-Lerf is the one we know the least about too, right?
00:17:08
Speaker
Yeah. And so it's sort of like, I'd like to figure out what his fantasy is. I actually, as much as the Boimler stuff, a lot of the fantasy stuff was just empty.
00:17:18
Speaker
The Boimler one made perfect sense and it's good to kind of see his ambitions clarified, right? Because I think all the other crew members, I'm always constantly wondering what is their intention? What is their goal? What do they want?
Character Development Focus: Tendi and Others
00:17:32
Speaker
Right. We get hints of that throughout these two. but Well, think about Rutherford, too. He's a very surface level reactionary type of person. So I don't feel like they wanted to go deep with his character quite yet. And then they they start to a little bit later. But I think even in this season and we start to get a little bit more backstory about him,
00:17:51
Speaker
i I almost feel like it should have been Tendi popping out of that rock, but ah it wasn't. so conversion i Maybe that was in the original script and they they just chose not to do that. And because everyone was in lockdown working remotely, that there was not a lot of... ah Communication. There just wasn't a lot of opportunity to find something else.
00:18:12
Speaker
yeah And so they just slotted in the easy joke, which isn't a joke, but anyway. It's... Most cosplayable character or moment. I feel like there's a lot of options. So hit me with one of yours.
00:18:23
Speaker
Borg snake. for Yeah. Borg snake is the one that jumps out pretty clearly. I wrote it in all caps. It's just Borg snake. Yay. The chief scrubble is pretty cool.
00:18:34
Speaker
like That would be an interesting cosplay to try. ah but the Borg snake, I mean, come on. Yeah, no, definitely. Would you do the the Scrubbles staff thing? Hell yeah, you gotta do the staff and everything, yeah, for sure. Would you have a little orb or like an ah or Maybe. I think the key to that costume would be making sure its thick eyebrows could lower and rise. Because that's the only way he knew he was evil. And so his media yeah so I like that.
00:19:05
Speaker
A real cheap one is that scientist, though. That guy looked like just a pale, shut-in guy, schlubby guy. that yeah That would be a fun... Someone has definitely done that. I'm sure of it. And that's a deep cut.
00:19:17
Speaker
They're like, I'm there. One of the, he was wearing what, like a dark green and black belt or whatever. Yes. Yes. He kind of looked like Joel Sherman from the critic. Jay Sherman, Jay Sherman from the critic. the team Right. yeah Yep. Yep. Yep.
00:19:32
Speaker
Now it's time for the line. Mr. Joel. Yeah. Great lines. I got a couple. ah So I did love in the tag opening that, what are you doing in space in a revealing toga?
00:19:45
Speaker
For the first fantasy stone. Lower deck fans, that is not how Star... Like, it's never just a straight improv scene joke.
00:19:57
Speaker
set yeah like if That is... But it's always a toga for some reason. It's sitcom scene through and through that could exist on Rick and Morty and Solar Opposite, whatever. Yes, no, I'm chuckling because it's just like, okay, this is so goofy. Yeah.
00:20:12
Speaker
right ah my seventh grade chemistry teacher like teacher in a tone and then she's like i read your race car novel and i want to hear more about it um yeah i love that part uh do you have any more i have a few yeah i got a couple book go ahead Migly Moe, Tendi, does it matter how much you know if nobody's listening?
00:20:37
Speaker
So I think that is a great thought. That's like as stupid as this episode's jokes are, that's not a joke. And that's like a good dramatic thing to have. I think that what's Tendi's goal? She's like, I want to pass the test and be the top student.
00:20:53
Speaker
As much as I criticize like putting fame in the Star Trek, I think like the aggressive accomplishment ism or like just this idea of I have facts that makes me powerful. i'm like, power makes you powerful.
00:21:05
Speaker
You know, being a confident person, it's it's being a striver who's just trying to like pass the qualifying test and that's it. Having no ambition is small. it's it's This is too millennial coded this episode.
00:21:19
Speaker
And as an elder millennial, i reject this, this curdled idea that's in this old episode. Like this episode, I don't think has aged well. This theme that they've got repeated through Lower Decks of like, we're anxious because what do people think of us? And are we succeeding with how we think we ought to be based on what other people tell us? This is all there. It's not like subtext. This is what it is.
00:21:43
Speaker
and like And then am I important enough to basically be handed things or be given the benefit of the doubt. Am I famous enough if I worked hard enough? Not even worked hard enough, but just am I famous enough? Because they're they're whole they're famous because they break the rules. They don't do what they're supposed to do.
00:21:57
Speaker
So it's just like this crazy, like, what are, is the show about how you have to work your way up the ranks? Or is it just about millennial anxiety? And maybe that's all the show is about. And that's why people love it.
00:22:08
Speaker
It might be, but I think it's also, it's it's understanding what breaking the rules can do, either good or bad, and how you have to go about doing it and being your own person in in those decisions. Because i i agree with what you're saying, that it does feel very millennial coded. And especially when it comes to like test taking, we were you know kind of nose to the grind type of generation that was like, I have to meet this requirement and then I can move on because we were told If you climb the ladder, you'll get to the next rung.
00:22:41
Speaker
We didn't realize that there was a bunch of chutes built in. Well, yeah I was one of those kids, moved up grades and all that crap. and And it's like, you know what happens? You get, you learn. And then what? Yeah. Who are you after?
00:22:53
Speaker
But that's a lesson that you ought to have been taught. Not like the people who didn't learn that lesson were not taught well. like They were not taught well, but that's why they didn't have teachers like Miglimo. Yeah. who didn't push you to be like, don't think what you're teaching me is exactly correct. And I want to challenge that.
00:23:14
Speaker
And I feel like that is what a lot of millennial stuff is, is like once you're told something, you kind of take it as fact or you take it as like, okay, that's the direction I need to go. And this is what I need to do. And when you have teachers that are like, you are clearly not smart in this area or like you don't really know what you're talking about and to be able to challenge that I think is the greatest millennial obstacle is to challenge that but not destroy that.
00:23:41
Speaker
Well and then it gets resolved as a bunch of shouting and throwing stuff and breaking stuff. That's the point. I put the line in as great. I think this is a great challenging idea a good line.
00:23:53
Speaker
What else do you have for great lines? I agree with you and you agree with me. So we agree. We agree. We're in agreement.
Humor and Character Interactions in Lower Decks
00:24:01
Speaker
The engineering of
00:24:06
Speaker
Wish me luck. No wait. Wish me facts. ah It's a Teddy line. yeah I thought that was really adorable and fun. um I did put Leah Brahms in was ah really great. Just rather for going Leah Brahms.
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah. ah when Mariner calls out Boimler and says, also, sidecar? Even in your fantasies, you're not in the driver's seat.
00:24:32
Speaker
And then Boimler says, driving's scary. I'm a natural passenger. Amen. Bradward Boimler, I hate driving. so I do too. I do too. Just take care of it for me. Another millennial experience. That's right. um Borg snakes and clown bat-lith-arms.
00:24:51
Speaker
That was just a yeah imagery. um Then also, Mariner, you might want to go back to therapy. Yeah. After she destroys a bunch. You get to every episode.
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, it's fascinating because she's still on her journey of up and down, up and down. um She's just on a down moment on this one. Paul F. Tompkins, he plays a couple of characters in this episode, um but he plays one of the other ensigns from the Carlsbad. Right.
00:25:21
Speaker
What is his alien persona? What what is that? i I'm not sure. I know I can picture it in my head, but I don't know which one it is. I'll look it I just, yeah, it's just for whatever reason. I just thought it was hysterical that he had a Philadelphia accent for no reason.
00:25:40
Speaker
didn't notice that. That's funny. He did. He was just like, seriously. He just like had that, those weird like dips.
00:25:52
Speaker
And he is a tellerite. Tellerite. Oh, okay. Doesn't, strike you immediately as a tellerite but yeah okay i can see it yeah looking at it up close uh anymore i have one more i have uh three three more hit me with them okay um with when they're showing off trent um and merida just says damn get it trent um that's the uncle that's dancing at the wedding that the the wedding drunk mind stone correct yeah recorded yep
00:26:25
Speaker
um And then if I was brain dead, then how come I saw a koala? And that is the science officer who who got killed. That's right. and I always put it in the best trick trope. Yeah. So yes, do that.
00:26:40
Speaker
um And then the final one is Boimler screaming, guys, I people.
00:26:48
Speaker
My other one was the Boimur line. Was there a time travel? Have we done a time travel thing? When they're listening to Mariner, all the things that the crew actually has done. um yeah I just thought, have we done a time travel thing?
00:27:02
Speaker
I'm not totally against meta jokes. And for a show that does it, like, that's fine. That was funny. Yeah. ah Now it's time for the line must be drawn here. Great art. um I actually really enjoyed the planet site imagery. um i Something about the way that like, you know, sort of the constructions and everything and then um the orbs around the planet.
00:27:24
Speaker
It's very beautiful imagery. I thought it was cool and more epic than they usually do. I agree. I wanted to hear what you had to say because I feel like just like with the cosplayable moment, there was options here for the art.
00:27:35
Speaker
But I need to point out that i maybe I've said this in a previous animated spotlight. Please let me know if you remember. But I had never noticed... I feel like I've said this, but in this episode, again, I noticed that the, the whole, the standing sets, they're standing animated sets, ah the corridors, the metal is brushed.
00:27:56
Speaker
So they are mimicking what happened in next generation. Cause they, it's supposed to look like metal, but all it is, is wood, but it's painted silver. And so on the HD, you can really see how it's brushed paint on that's silver painted.
00:28:09
Speaker
paint that's been painted on. It's not metal bits. And they're replicating that for the Cerritos and that level of detail. They also do with the carpet. The carpet looks like like real fine carpet. They put like a texture grate over it.
00:28:23
Speaker
But there's like a there's a paint, if you just look at it on your giant TV. yeah I will because I can You'll see it's brush paint. So I just appreciated that. I feel like I've said it before, but maybe not. I i just like that they that.
00:28:34
Speaker
No, that's, you did not, I don't think you have in my memory, and I'm so going to look at that now. That's amazing. That's great. oh Would this have been a fun holo novel to play out? And this is always a very open to interpretation question. Who are you playing in this scenario? Like, what's your ah goal? So what do you have?
00:28:53
Speaker
I had, nope. Nope.
00:28:57
Speaker
It's fun. in and the Freeman one, you have to have like a ah ah breakdown because someone younger than you is already a captain and is unflappable. And then you have to throw a hissy fit. I don't know.
00:29:09
Speaker
I'm very disappointed by the Freeman story in this episode. i thought Yeah. it It was a bit odd. And then I didn't understand why neither of them would take the the yeah pyramid offering.
00:29:23
Speaker
um And that's what made me think in the episode before we kind of got to the end and the twist that it might be like one of those, like it makes you angry type of items. So they're just going back and forth. Well, so that's the thing that this episode was making me think of all the couple of instances in the past. I'm like, why did they do it this way?
00:29:43
Speaker
Remember the buffer time episode? I'm like, this is being portrayed as though there's some sort of outside influence making them act crazy. Like the way it's being visualized.
00:29:55
Speaker
And here it's the same. i completely agree with you. And i I kind of think if you are trying to leave it up to the audience, like maybe it is influencing them, that for this show that never does subtlety, you cannot retroactively...
00:30:12
Speaker
You said as a guard against criticism. Well, maybe we wanted you to think that. Like, no, you will make a character yawn in front of everybody just to get a point across that they're tired. You are not above subtlety. You're not above obvious. or That's your goal. So I don't know. I mean...
00:30:30
Speaker
It was probably just a red herring type of situation, but it did feel like a very big moment to do. and i think I'm with you, though. It just made it feel like a huge backslide to the first half of season one, especially with Freeman.
00:30:41
Speaker
Yeah. I'm with though. This does not be a ah good a fun holo novel to play out. Yeah. What role of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy, then? ah
00:30:54
Speaker
i I put, I'm not really sure, but maybe the webbed hand guy. um But ah I'm trying to like think of an actual answer now of just, I don't know, maybe understanding foreign relations a little bit better.
00:31:08
Speaker
So the setup is like the hood had been, the USS Hood had been there previously kind of calm down the situation, which we then learned as was a fake conflict, kind of a false flag operation just to get the Federation more involved so that more Federation would come, Starfleet would come, they'd conceal the secrets.
00:31:25
Speaker
That's fine. that But I think the scrubble and the aliens working together, i think the lesson you might teach would be specific for this incident that this particular group aligned themselves for that way.
00:31:38
Speaker
i don't know how you would teach. Some people are angling for your information and your secrets. I think that's just normal spy craft. But I think they might teach, like if you're learning about the scrubble at all, there are the, because it was funny. They were like,
00:31:52
Speaker
uh you know these silicon life forms you know we just call ourselves life forms you know and they're a living rock which is another star trek trope i might maybe should have just put as the best trek trope but again it's kind of stepping all over the the beautiful reveal of uh devil in the dark but anyway i digress But the idea that to us, you don't register as life forms that matter.
00:32:12
Speaker
Like, I think that perspective might be something that gets taught ah that you have to respect life. Life comes in all forms. You know, sometimes a rock is not a rock. A rock is a person. That's crazy to think about.
Critique of Freeman's Character Dynamics
00:32:26
Speaker
ah So Trek, marry or kill mining the mind's minds. yeah I would say this is ah a little bit of a stutter step, but I would say is ah a medium grade track.
00:32:38
Speaker
It's still a fun episode. It's still, it still progresses a lot of their thought. And I understand i'm i'm not going to outright kill it. It's just a medium grade track. I gotta give it a kill. I think it's like, it feels like black sliding.
00:32:52
Speaker
It feels like the worst version of a Lower Decks episode. It's got shouting equals funny, references equals funny. I've seen the show be much better and I feel like just a lot of the bits are kind of tired. I don't think the, the, the,
00:33:07
Speaker
things they imagined their fantasies were all that interesting and uh and i really remember how much i've been praising like i love captain freeman she's great i know like i know what did they do her did she hit her head up a rock on the way into the conference room like i don't get it it's so stupid it feels like it feels like it was maybe the bones of a first season episode and then they just brought it back because they were like i don't know what to do they're compressed because a lockdown maybe me i think that i think you're right yeah have something to do with it but this felt like a retrograde lower deck so all right we'll put that one to vote and when we come back we'll look at another episode from lower decks third season
00:33:48
Speaker
katie was there a party room in your dorm I, oh, great question. um I think there was, but it was near the RA's room. So who wasn't smart? What? That's not the party. The party room was near the- You have to understand. I went to a Christian college, so- I went to a Catholic college. All right. That's okay. Was there a party room in your dorm?
00:34:13
Speaker
There was, but now i'm trying to think, was it that also near the RA's room? but our I mean, our party dorm had drugs and alcohol. Like we're Catholics. We're not Christian.
00:34:23
Speaker
like No, I know. No, I know. They had apparently found a bunch of like crushed up like um beer cans and stuff within like our heaters and stuff. Oh, wow. It was not from our room. I'll tell you that. I was very, very sober. Yeah. And then we had a, when I was an RA, we had a quasi-RA room or a party room, which was near my room.
00:34:45
Speaker
What is that? They're like, if it's right by the RA, it will challenge me. They won't actually do That one was like kind of a party run one, but I was on it right away because it was like, this is really bad. Like having been around the party rooms and the other dorms, I'm like, there's a balance where you're not like drawing so much attention to yourself. And when you do,
00:35:05
Speaker
It's a Friday night and a Saturday night. And it kind of ebbs and flows. This one was like hard until three in the morning or like, you know, on Wednesday. And it's like Sunday and Thursday. So the weekend stuff started happening. There were fights and all stuff. And then I remember my supervisors were like, you got to give them enough rope to hang themselves. Like, what if they literally hang themselves? And then someone got so messed up, we were on the second floor, they fell off the balcony and had to be airlifted out. And I'm like, and it's like, I had been reporting on them for four months. Like this was like all foreseeable. So it was just a crazy.
00:35:40
Speaker
Are you telling me, that Brian, that reporting things in the Catholic run institution doesn't really go anywhere? In terms of reporting to the Catholic church makes things worse. Yeah.
00:35:53
Speaker
But I do like your idea that I was reporting directly to bishop or the pope. bishop or something. was submitting my RA reports like, dear Mr. Yes.
00:36:06
Speaker
He's in the middle of swinging the incense and you're like, hey, so by the way. this I have to CC the Holy Spirit on each email. Yeah, for sure. All right. but So you weren't the party dorm. Is that your... I mean, no, as much as like I would show movies in my dorm room. ah But no, we were not we were not very party oriented. So I was friends with the people who were the party dorm in my sophomore year because I was an R.A.
00:36:33
Speaker
starting my junior year. And they're cool. Some of them are still my friends to this day, which is great. ah Somewhat related, but not really, because it's more of an acquaintance or was an acquaintance. One of the voice actors in this episode on Delta Shift, Artemis Pebdoni, which a lot of people might know from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia,
00:36:51
Speaker
yeah She plays Artemis on that show, but she's a voice here. But I knew her. She helped me out of a jam. She was friends with an ex-girlfriend of mine. My car got towed one time. She helped me go bail out. So know who Artemis is. I like her. It was nice to hear her voice pop up in Star Trek, even though it's the stupid, shifty Delta shifters. Those motherfuckers. Yeah.
'Room for Growth' Episode Analysis
00:37:13
Speaker
Anyway, we're talking about Room for Growth. It's the fourth episode of Lower Decks third season. It premiered on Paramount Plus September 15, 2022, written by John Cochran, written by Jason Zurich.
00:37:23
Speaker
Memory Alpha describes it. Mariner, Boimler, and Tendi clash with their arch rivals, Delta Shift. Meanwhile, the Cerritos engineers go on a mandatory relaxation leave. What Memory Alpha doesn't tell us is that the reason they go on this mandatory relaxation leave is because Captain Freeman has ah a masks situation happened where she becomes the Darcy God Manuki and transforms the ship again, but in the style of masks where it gets turned into a temple and, and the engineers are exhausted, basically putting the ship back, which, which I can't remember at the end of masks. I feel like they, when they ended the program, it just like magically erased that stuff. But in here, they're like, that probably wouldn't really happen.
00:38:08
Speaker
So there'll be some cleanup. Yeah. And it was cool. They like move a stone and then, oh, there, now the equipment works. The stone was in the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they go to this, basically a pleasure station, a spa. They go to the Burke Williams in space, I guess.
00:38:25
Speaker
Yep.
00:38:28
Speaker
and And it turns out engineers have a tough time relaxing in the way that non-engineers relax. And that creates ah that causes Captain Freeman to have a breakdown in front of everybody, which I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit later.
00:38:40
Speaker
ah this is a very much um It's interesting that these two episodes in the twinning sense are like three in one, the two storylines. So Tendi was alone and then the other three were on the planet in the previous episode. This one, you've got Tendi with Mariner and Boimler and then you've got Rutherford alone with the engineers.
00:39:00
Speaker
I got to be honest, Tendi, Mariner and Boimler is better trio. Tendi on her own is not as interesting. Well, because Tendi's trying to show off and when she doesn't have someone to show off to, it's it's hard for her to place, I guess, her character. But that's kind of her growth overall, the entire series. But I do i do get it because Mariner's always the one driving the ridiculousness of the scenario. Boimler's always the one that's kind of holding back and it's either Rutherford or Tendi that's kind of the middle ground that either pushes forward or holds back.
00:39:31
Speaker
Yeah. So I get that. I like that because Tendi is more comfortable around them. So we get the best version of Tendi and they're trying to problem solve.
00:39:42
Speaker
And we get a little pirate Tendi. Yeah. Yes, that's right. And I like Rutherford. in these isolated situations because when he's left to his own devices, he really nerds out, you know? yeah And he doesn't have to like, feel like someone's looking over his shoulder or feeling secure about it. He's just straightforwardly, I'm an engineer. and I think that's fun. He seems more confident, which is very strange, but ah so I like that.
00:40:08
Speaker
Have you ever been to a spa that didn't feel as comfortable as a spa should be? No puppy rooms at any spas I've been to. Yeah. I've i've been to spas. How about you? I have, I am always feeling awkward in a spa. I feel like I either shouldn't be there or I'm going to be charged up the ass or the last time, think the last time I went, no, no, no. The very first time I went, I got like a full body massage cause my parents got it for me.
00:40:38
Speaker
was like, Oh, how fun. And I didn't realize as a female, I should probably shave my legs. And then I spent the whole time very tense. oh because they were like rubbing my legs and I was like I haven't shaved there though and they're like oh your muscles are really tense on your legs but yeah has' tired
00:41:01
Speaker
hello I'm just like, i'm i' a hairy guy. So I'm like, you know what? If they're disgusted by it, I'll just say listen, you need to get somebody else in here. I'm like, I feel like I'll feel their tension.
00:41:15
Speaker
It's a problem. yeah
00:41:18
Speaker
I also always manage to somehow mess up that like, cause there's always a question, especially in massages. That's like, have you like hurt anything lately? Is there anything sore or whatever? and I'm like, I have a spot in my back that is always sore. And I think I explained it wrong. I think I, they're asking me, have you like, is there an injury? um And I'm like, no, but this hurts a lot. So please dig in. And then they go really light on that area. And I'm like, no, no, no, go.
00:41:45
Speaker
Yeah. And then I don't say anything else. So listeners, if you have a suggestion on how Katie should word the targeting of the source bot.
00:41:57
Speaker
I guess i could I do have a problem area that I'd really like you to focus on. That's a good idea. But when you're face down and you're trying like that. You're in that little hole. That's statement I would have to like lift my body up to make because sitting face down would be hard because now let me try with my face.
00:42:15
Speaker
There's actually problem spot there. Yeah, it's just like it's harder to, I can't do it. That's how I empathize. That makes perfect sense.
00:42:24
Speaker
ah Just write it like in your on your back. Have your husband write it on the marker and you had to draw a line in circle? Just get tattoo, just like rub here. The only tattoo I ever get. That's right. That's right. What if the the pain goes away?
00:42:40
Speaker
Let's see if they can do that. ah So we're both millennials, as I said. But is this what we are,
Millennial Themes and Spa Culture
00:42:48
Speaker
Katie? Mediocrities who complain about work?
00:42:51
Speaker
That's the underlying theme about both of these episodes. You know, it's about overwork and relaxing. But then it's also about striving and climbing the Delta ship. They're going to rig a lottery system so that they can get a room in a nicer place.
00:43:06
Speaker
The crews previous to that, our main lower deckers are lamenting being crammed on a ship. which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why would you overstaff a ship? ah start Like everything's mathematically balanced. It should be in Starfleet where you're not overpacking a crew.
00:43:23
Speaker
There's an explanation of like with half the fleet on maneuvers or since the Borg attack, like a lot of that stuff made sense. But now it's just like, nope, it's just a cram ship. Like why? is that the case?
00:43:35
Speaker
But I guess it's just like, these are two episodes where people were just complaining about doing star trek and it was just like and because i said that this is all millennial coded i'm like we really are whiny people who've ruined everything we are we whiny people or are we talking about the things that are egregious for no reason when we have the resources to fix these problems very easily and they are not letting us be able to fix these problems very easily is that part of it ah That's us in real life. But it's like this is Star Trek. and in
00:44:09
Speaker
And it's like Star Trek is much easier, more able to say Chekhov's line of, oh, yes, racism. I read about that in school. It's over now. it's like ah But it's just like that they're willing to accept that lesson, but not the lesson of like, ah what do you do when all your needs are met?
00:44:27
Speaker
You know I mean? Like, are we millennials saying like, it would have been great if Star Trek took a moment to explain how these particular problems we feel on our chest every day, how those got resolved. But instead they're like, we never did.
00:44:40
Speaker
It's still here in the 24th century. And that's not Star Trek, Katie. That's not fucking Star Trek. That's how I turn it on. I think that's where a lot of the jokes come from because it's like, yeah, but how much in history do we like often romanticize the past? And I feel like this is them saying, how much are we romanticizing the future when so much of our old bullshit continues into our next generations of humans and people and how we interact?
00:45:09
Speaker
There is still that, you know, scarcity stuff. There is still a hierarchy. Cynical and postmodern. I can't I cannot bridge it But to your point about like, have you ever do you ever relax, go to a spa? Right. That's what you're asking. And it seems like I would say that the spa day was something that maybe millennials did popularize a little bit to some degree. I think that's like the treat yourself thing. Like that whole idea.
00:45:33
Speaker
When I go on walks or just go out and like, and every day I'm like, I'm going to get a little treat. I'm going to get a little coffee or get a stone or something. Cause guess what? It does make me happy. It takes the load off for, for an hour.
00:45:46
Speaker
That's pretty, and that's pretty needed. Yeah. But think about that, where like your little treat is not going to a spa. Mine is definitely not going to a spa, at least not yet, because I can't afford spa. I can't go to spas anymore. But when i was like 32 or 33 and like I had no other abilities, I'm like, once every six months I can get a massage. That's not like the end of the world. Yeah. It's better than a night out drinking. so it's like, yeah. Boy, is it. Yeah. the boy is it but then as i got older it's just like wow that massage did not last me half the day but no and ah yeah no that's that's one of the things that has been the most egregious about massages now is just like oh give me two hours and i'll mess it all up again so i can only enjoy it in the moment has no benefit once i leave cross the threshold back out onto the street it's over
00:46:39
Speaker
Feels the same way with the chiropractors, by the way. Meanwhile, Katie, I get the benefits of walking to the coffee shop. And then I have the the anticipatory joy of getting the coffee and or pastry.
00:46:52
Speaker
And then I get the joy of consuming it while I'm walking back. you And it's just, it's wonderful. And then also satisfied and caffeinated. It's wonderful. It's the, oh, Brian, I gotta to tell you ah as someone who recently had to switch to decaf, because apparently that's in my life now because I can't fall asleep if I have a cup of coffee at 10 in the morning.
00:47:14
Speaker
Oh no. I hate it. It's so stupid. and Decaf tastes like decaf. It sucks.
00:47:23
Speaker
It tastes like less caffeine. like i was like, oh, this tastes gross. And Mark's like, maybe you like the flavor of caffeine. was like, I think I do.
00:47:35
Speaker
all right, let's talk about some great moments instead. yeah Okay. I have a few. How many do you have? um Let's see here. I've got like a um two or three. Yeah. um But I really liked the opener. Great tag on the opener. i i do feel like um just exploring the lower decks kind of bunks and then all of this madness happening through their bunks feels very lower decks and and fun. and So I really enjoy that.
00:48:06
Speaker
It's the premise distilled into a moment. I think that's absolutely correct. That's good call. ah My first one, though, was Ta'ana and Shax's Bonnie and Clyde or bank robber holodeck fantasy.
00:48:17
Speaker
And Tendi gets pulled out before Ta'ana tells Shax how she lost her tail. She's only doing that because... They do a perfect comedy bit of they're doing the stick up and they're going shoot everybody and they start shooting and Tana's getting and excited and she's like, turn off the safeties.
00:48:35
Speaker
And then Shaq's just like becomes deadly serious. It's not doing it for him. And he's like computer freeze program. And he wants to talk about his feelings. and And there's a great line that Tana has to try to anyway.
00:48:48
Speaker
Yeah. uh that to i it's a best trek trope as well but like just a great moment i i appreciate it it's in black and white so it's fun yes uh what else do you the moment when mariner and boimler get high as fuck is what i put down um i thought that was hilarious uh but the moment right after that which i actually kind of really enjoyed um it was it was in the whole like exploring and trying to get to the where they can get their better living quarters and whatnot.
00:49:19
Speaker
um But they have to take off their Mariner and Tendi have to take off their clothes and basically make a toe line to get Boimler into ah the Jeffrey's tube.
00:49:30
Speaker
And the moment, as soon as they pull Boimler by his hair into the Jeffrey's tube and they kind of like relaxingly sigh and they don't comment on the fact that they're in their underwear or anything like that. They're just like, Oh, I can't believe we made it. And something about that is so,
00:49:46
Speaker
beautiful and sweet and feels very lower decks yeah it's good lower decks one uh moment for sure tendy asks mariner and boimler what they're going to say to let people into their new quarters uh so they're like boimler's trying out well reicher always says come come and he and mariner but i love
Star Trek Communication Protocols
00:50:05
Speaker
tendies enter friend and it's just like so anybody who enters is a friend yep What a perfect 10D moment.
00:50:12
Speaker
It's a nice beat between all three of them too. I thought it was very sweet. It doesn't quite great on me that it's akin to the go to work catchphrase in the star. I'm going to be a super nerd right now. Katie in the star Trek.
00:50:27
Speaker
Series Bible written by Gene Roddenberry. books He has a whole process for the computer. So this was just, they threw this out quickly, but basically like you would tell the computer with specific commands, show me where to get wherever. And you'll hear it sometimes still in the generation.
00:50:48
Speaker
where they will say certain commands to the computer. Well, certain commands were just built into the series Bible. of Like, this is how you talk to this 24th century computer system that we've invented for Star Trek, the next generation.
00:50:59
Speaker
And like, come is just the standard acknowledgement of that. It's not special. Just like, but I still, for the moment of like... I I'm okay with them doing it. Cause it's to sit around and wait an hour and then thinking about what they're going the other version is like, what are you going to How are you going direct decorate your quarters?
00:51:19
Speaker
And it's like, that could be fun too, but because this is Star Trek, lower decks are going to pull Star Trek reference out. And it's at least not a bit they've done to death. Right. You haven't seen all the other shows be like, I wonder what I should say to let people. Right. It's, It's not the engage. so you know yes So it has a novelty to it that I i think is perfect Lower Decks.
00:51:40
Speaker
And it's a sweet moment that to me feels very in character. And um great. Fantastic. When Lower Decks does things well, Katie, I give it really to them. Yep.
00:51:53
Speaker
Any others? I had one more. um I just, I love that Charlotte Nickdow from Mythic Quest, which is back on now in releasing episodes, i was the ensign Meredith who's getting the background. I just thought that was really cool. I love the random people that they bring in for voices. And and she's she's building something with her hands that she's getting.
00:52:16
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Yep. Yep. I know some engineers and I guess I never really thought they really do like solving problems. That's for sure.
00:52:27
Speaker
um So it was fun that they came up with an engineering solution for how to get the captain to relax. And then the spa people are so. but this will put us in business as someone who has run a lot of corporate team building games and especially for engineers and software engineers there's nothing like a good puzzle or a mind trick or something like that to get them relaxed yeah ah just throw a puzzle box into a room you just open it and throw the pieces yeah
00:53:00
Speaker
ah Find your way out. So along that sequence, when Rutherford and Billups burst into the puppy room where Captain Freeman has been placed to calm her down after her freak out, she's freaked out because she's noticing the engineers are not taking it seriously.
00:53:16
Speaker
Um,
00:53:19
Speaker
Rutherford says, so this should be a great line, but I know I'm declaring a great moment. He bursts in and he says, stop. And one of the puppies looks and whimpers and he goes, oh, not you little guys keep on pumping.
00:53:30
Speaker
So i and i at about I love dogs. So it was nice. They were like, we can't ignore that. This is a puppy room. Let's give the puppies also a comedy staple is cutting to a dog reacting to something. It's it. Yeah.
00:53:45
Speaker
It doesn't always work, but people always appreciate that you did it because most people like dogs. so People want to see the puppy. All right. ah Best Trek tropes.
00:53:57
Speaker
I have two. um i ah i I liked the... um It was hard to phrase, but basically... The transfer of anxiety from the captain to the engineers just being acknowledged um that it's not really the engineers issue ah that they've been overworked and whatnot. It's kind of just the captain.
00:54:22
Speaker
I have the holodeck. This is what I was talking about in that meet moment between Ta'ana and Shaxx. I think it's the exact intention of the concept that you can blow off some steam while blowing out the brains of some holographic people.
00:54:36
Speaker
I think it's a great tool for, you know, living out your fantasies, however violent, sexual, depraved, whatever it is that yeah that people can come up with. And, you know, you're not supposed to be in there watching someone else live out their fantasy. So ah interesting twinning, right?
00:54:51
Speaker
A lot of yeah and these two episodes, a lot of fantasy in the two. um And then a moment of, I mean, sort of like being suspicious of Delta shift. Again, it kind of goes back to the last episode of the like, either it's hurrah or fuck you. We're awesome. Yeah. ah And we get the fuck you were awesome. But then we also get kind of like a, oh but we're all Lower Decks moment.
00:55:17
Speaker
That kind of goes back to the fuck you were awesome. Yeah. Which sucks, but I did like the moment where they kind of have their, oh, Delta Shift is just like Beta Shift. Like, we're not so different. It seems like they just develop these concepts that feel very strong in the room, and they're like, well, let's just split this up.
00:55:33
Speaker
yeah We can get two episodes worth out of every concept.
Captain Freeman's Traits and Parenting Style
00:55:37
Speaker
Which makes sense if you think about how streaming and how most of TV is bifurcated, where it's like you've got 10 weeks to write every episode of the season, and it's like, shit.
00:55:47
Speaker
Yeah. like yeah They're supposed to be good. and Not necessarily. get to work, writers. that Maybe there is some utility to that. ah The other best trick trip I had was Sensors.
00:55:59
Speaker
So even yeah even the spa person mentions the Sensors. so I hear everywhere now. I heard it before, but I never realized even in Voyager they're doing that. They all do it. They've always done it.
00:56:12
Speaker
um It's not a big deal to me, and it's probably actually the most correct way to say it. And I think sometimes other people, they'll say data, which we know is lieutenant commander data, and other times they'll say data to indicate that we're talking about the data we've collected, which makes sense to me as well. So it's just whatever.
00:56:31
Speaker
Where's Trek Tropes? I have multiple... but
00:56:38
Speaker
Oh, gosh. Okay. My one and only one was just basically the twist or the solve coming at the very end, not being ah just, i don't know, a little bit straw man um in that like, all we had to do was put her into a machine that we created and then our problem is solved.
00:56:58
Speaker
Into the Temple Grandin hugging machine. Yes. Basically. yes It's a good way of calling it. Which also I fully would love to have that because I kind of pulled my back in working out the other And I would love that so that it stops annoying me.
00:57:18
Speaker
Any others? That's that's the one that I have. Okay, reference humor again. we got the masks reference and then we've got a Genesis reference, which is so lazy because Riker was a caveman in Genesis and here the first officer of the Cerritos, Ransom, is a first up is is the one who was the caveman.
00:57:39
Speaker
They try to plus it by Churro Olivia. He has like a wife that he makes out of hot bread and out of churros or whatever, whatever. I'm just like, okay, all right. what ah I was like, oh, wait, what? Right. Okay.
00:57:53
Speaker
So I kind of think between Delta Shift and Carol Freeman's breakdown here, there's kind of a narcissist thing going on here that I'm not, I don't think it's a ah great Trek trope that they have here.
00:58:05
Speaker
Again, kind of what I was lamenting before of like, is this all the millennials are? And you're like, well, maybe the show is brilliantly capturing the moment that we live in by saying that none of that goes away in the future. We are trapped in the cell forever.
00:58:18
Speaker
And they seem to be doing that with narcissists. Now, is Carol Friedman a narcissist? I'm going to leave it up to you, Katie, to decide. You're to say no. I'm going to run through the list of symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder. This is actually really good because I'm terrible at recognizing narcissists. So this is actually really good practice for me. So go ahead.
00:58:38
Speaker
Have an unreasonably high sense of self-importance and require constant excessive admiration. Feel that they deserve privileges and special treatment. Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements.
00:58:49
Speaker
Make achievements and talents seem bigger than they are. Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty, or the perfect mate. Believe they are superior to others and can only spend time with or be understood by equally special people.
00:59:04
Speaker
Be critical of and look down on people they feel are not important. express Expect special favors and expect other people to do what they want without questioning them. Take advantage of others to get what they want. Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others.
00:59:19
Speaker
Be envious of others and believe others envy them. Behave in an arrogant way. Brag a lot and come across as conceited. Insist on having the best of everything, for instance, the best car or office and this or starship.
00:59:30
Speaker
At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder, Katie, also have trouble handling anything they view as criticism. They can become impatient or angry when they don't receive special recognition or treatment, have major problems interacting with others and easily feel slighted, react with rage or contempt and try to belittle other people to make themselves appear superior, have difficulty managing their emotions and behavior experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change withdraw from or avoid situations in which they might fail feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection and have secret feelings of insecurity shame humiliation and fear of being exposed as a failure
01:00:12
Speaker
o it's on the line right when you listen out It is on the line, but she's not overly pompous about her position, I would say. i mean, like, when is she kind of waxing poetic about how much better the Cerritos is to everybody else? These two episodes, they don't do. You're right. These two episodes, though, do have the sense, the underlying current of she feels like she's owed something.
01:00:38
Speaker
Well, yeah. disturbing i will say that like with Freeman, I feel like every time she progresses, there is a couple of steps back. It's the same with her daughter. It's 100 percent. I agree. Yeah. um So I do think that there is like some really fun genetic behavior writing in that. um But I will say that like she can take criticism.
01:01:01
Speaker
It's just depending on the episode. Yeah. me on the episode pretty much so and i do think that she does have some insecurities but i don't think that she has like this like value of like what is the essence of absolute perfect in her i mean she wouldn't take her daughter into her ship and not like force it onto her husband who's on a completely different ship maybe her husband's a narcissist and she just picked up some stuff um but i i feel like Captain Freeman's arc is, is, I leans away from narcissistic. I mean, there are, there are times where she, I know I can't, that's why these two episodes were such a stunner to me because i'm like, well, this is not where she winds up.
01:01:46
Speaker
And, ah and yeah to the point about why she would have Mariner on the ship, narcissists see their children as an extension of themselves, not as individuals. That's true. That's not going on here though. I kind of feel like Mariner or Freeman does see Mariner as a person.
01:01:59
Speaker
She doesn't like that person, but, right right She sees her as an individual. I don't know. i just when laying when I looked it up because this is an attack on me was like a triggering line for me. I'm like, that is something narcissists do say. They perceive yeah everything is a personal attack.
01:02:15
Speaker
And so I understand that she went through a traumatic event with the masks. That's the line they're trying to connect there. But we've also seen Freeman have meltdowns so many times. She has. She melts down on so many different kinds of slight.
01:02:28
Speaker
and And it's because this is a cartoon that doesn't do subtlety, which is why whenever they make the subtlety argument, I'm like, get fucked. You can't do subtlety. You're lying. You're so lying. got caught. You have to deal with it. But that's the thing where I'm like, well, Ransom's more of a narcissist than Freeman is because, you know, they don't really...
01:02:48
Speaker
they don't do any nuance in terms of Freeman. And I think she's just, she's just wants, she just wants her team to be better than they are. And she sees the ways in which that like Cali class is kind of, I don't know, treated, i guess.
01:03:03
Speaker
And yeah, takes offense on that. But I also think that like she blows up in this moment and on this thing because she's at her wits end to begin with. And I feel like anybody
Cosplay and Creative Fan Engagement
01:03:13
Speaker
could be... i You don't see her blow up all the time. and She's not like saying like her crew's attacking her that like everybody...
01:03:21
Speaker
And this one she does, though. She literally she's doesn't like what the engineers do, where they basically work around their stress risks ah stress bands. And she says, it's ah this is an attack on me. She literally yells at Billup's face.
01:03:34
Speaker
so I want you to look up the ah the symptoms of a histrionic personality. Maybe. It's a good it's a good look. for I mean, it's tough because, again, Freeman has come so far since the first half of the first season.
01:03:48
Speaker
and So, don't know. How's she going to win a hydro scoot competition with this attitude? This is not what a hydro scooter does, Carol. yeah right Most cosplayable character or moment?
01:04:02
Speaker
um Okay. i I have the um probably the moment where they're all ah trying to grab Boimler by the hair. Yeah.
01:04:19
Speaker
So people in the underwear as cosplayable? Okay, and all right. that's enough Because some people, I would not do this. I'm just putting this out there. This is not something I would do, but I feel like people would do it, is that moment. ah Well, you also have them connected by pants.
01:04:35
Speaker
Their clothes are tied together. Pants and shirts. So that's good. You'd have like, oh, so a polycule. That's a great costume for a polycule. It's at the end of the day. It's at the end of a day of a nice Trek, you know, con or something like that. You're already sweaty and gross. You want to get it off. So now you're cosplaying as ah Lower Decks. And if your Polycule goes to four, one person could be the deflector dish spinning in the front, and then they could be connected to each of them in the back.
01:05:04
Speaker
Perfect. I put Carol Freeman as Manuki. Yeah. yeah Because I thought that would look really cool. Yeah. It's actually very good. I did love um the alien that Mary Holland plays when she starts vaping. It just feels. That's right.
01:05:23
Speaker
She's funny. um Mary Holland. Oh, she's hysterical. Yeah. Now it's time for the line. Mr. John. Yeah. Great lines. I have a few. I have a few as well. I have, he's actually gone way over his time. We're too afraid to cut him off ah when and we've got the Klingon that's in the spa and it's just throwing axes. at I believe it's a mecleth that he's throwing.
01:05:46
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry. It is effectively he's in the axe throwing room. Yes, but I, yes but nerd ah Let's see.
01:05:59
Speaker
Oh, when Mariner's making fun of fun of banks and she says, ah yeah, hello, I'd like to withdraw some paper with no intrinsic value. ah money Ah, thought that was great.
01:06:10
Speaker
Yeah, i have the the setup line for that where Boimler says, oh, I know what this is. I think this is what people used to use their to store their money. It's called bonk.
01:06:21
Speaker
Bonk? feels very Steve Martin in the delivery. So great. um Actually, Martin Short. Martin Short calling Steve Martin Mr. Bonks. Oh, yes. Mr. Bonks. Yes. Yes. ah Computer deactivate safety protocols. I love that Dr. Tata will go endlessly in the holodeck and tearing off safety protocols anytime she can. That's a great look for your chief medical officer. She may not be here tomorrow.
01:06:50
Speaker
Oh, we got the AMH who cares? It just feels like she needs to get hurt to feel something. I don't know. in true cat behavior that's why she's together with jacks that's probably why she's like i'm fine i was on the algonquin um that one just made me laugh um oh yeah mary holland towards the end haven't you done enough damage get out here for some reason the way she delivers that line we quote it all the time get out of here
01:07:28
Speaker
ah Those are the ones
Holodeck Fantasies and Humorous Moments
01:07:29
Speaker
I have. So ah in, we've mentioned some of the lines in the bank scene, but to Anna, when Shaxx is basically, like can we talk about our feelings? And then she pulls down her shirt she goes, does baby need to suckle on one one of mama's?
01:07:42
Speaker
Will put those away, Diane?
01:07:48
Speaker
boy and meritor just trying their hardest to get through the tube and just like get out of there just this to me is like this is the stretch for that that star trek the live action show gives you is like yeah in the holodeck you can do crazy shit the people can talk in a certain way and the fact that she tries to use sex so as like a defanging weapon to like just i don't want to deal with an uncomfortable subject that all works for me um ah when they're high, Boimler says, okay, you guys sit here and feed the rabbits.
01:08:19
Speaker
I'm going to find a way through this maze.
01:08:24
Speaker
I love that. love that part. And then Freeman saying to Rutherford, come on, you can't have a petty without a mani. And then the spa person says, it's like a petty for your ham toes. That's a very Simpsons line for sure. But I'm like, you know, we got to put,
01:08:42
Speaker
the great lines in there when they're they wanted that yeah that's fine now its time for the line must be drawn here great art um yeah i i ah again i don't know what it is about that jeffrey stoop scene when they're all just kind of like oh we made it out ah for some reason i really like that i also really enjoyed the the image of when delta shift and beta shift are sitting around together waiting for the door to open um Yeah, that whole sequence was like really nice when they're bouncing around the the chamber the deflector dish chamber.
01:09:13
Speaker
I thought that all was nice. I still thought the Manuki animation with Freeman and transforming the ship, as much as I'm lamenting that part of the story, I'm like, it really did look really good. It was cool. Yeah. so great animation, I think, across both episodes. Yeah.
01:09:28
Speaker
right Would this be a fun holo novel to play out? Not if you're Freeman and probably not if you're the engineers. So then it would to be fun to strip off your clothes and save your friend from yeah yeah the deflector dish.
01:09:40
Speaker
Yeah, that that's fun. Yeah, as long as ah there's no orbs taking memory clippings from me. But apart from that, like I also think that um you know just like the it's almost like the like it's a maze itself of the rooms of the ship.
01:09:59
Speaker
trying to like be like, OK, how do we get past this? How do we get past this? you know Right. And it helps that Rutherford's not in this in that sequence with them. Right. He'd still know where everything is. And Boimler in a very this is a good writing moment where he's like, the ship's been retrofitted so many times. I'm actually starting to get a little confused.
01:10:19
Speaker
And that's a good call because they literally the season finale, the strip with the ship was literally stripped apart. So like i that all fit for me. It works. well enough now the fact that they didn't recognize that they were in like the deflector room right and that the computer allowed them in at all or didn't like issue a warrant whatever i'm not any kind of thing like there's forward objects within there yeah yeah uh so what part of this you teach at starfleet academy um i would I would say they would probably teach what the housing system would be like, especially with rooms. and The room lottery?
01:10:56
Speaker
We have a lo room lottery. I feel like, you know, making things actually fair, equitable. I think they would teach something about stress management.
01:11:08
Speaker
now Now, im and to that point, I think Freeman and everybody, they learned that lesson. And then getting to where they were as chief engineer with the captain of the ship, you forget all that stuff.
01:11:21
Speaker
But like Starfleet will try to teach you, like, here's how you manage stress. And it's ah it's a high pressure job. That's why we have ships counselors. That's why we have the holodeck. You know, it was like they they tried to do that. All right. So Trek, Marry or Kill...
01:11:33
Speaker
ah room for growth this one's this is another medium trek for me you know it's a fun episode it's it's definitely one of those that like I love it for the jokes I love it for the art of it it doesn't really push the storyline along that much but I think it's a it's a solid trek As someone who is just astonished by the character assassination of Carol Freeman in these two episodes, I nevertheless give this one also trek because I think the that being a weak B plot, that's effectively the B plot.
01:12:08
Speaker
yeah and That I think the A plot is just strong enough, whereas in the last episode, I didn't think either plot was very strong. And also Freeman's like in the first half of the story, she's I think you could argue there's the undercurrent of she feels bad that by being possessed by a Manuki that she then made overworked her own crew. I think maybe that guilt is weighing on
Katie's Projects and Podcast Sign-Off
01:12:29
Speaker
her. I could see that. That's a clear read of the text. And so the fact that she's like, we're going here and I'm fixing the problem and and why won't you do it exactly the way i want you to do it like whatever i can see the breakdown but um anyway it's it's a solid good visuals good jokes all the way through all right that's been our animated spotlight for the month but katie hampton does not exist just on this podcast once a month she exists but throughout the universe but where in this sector of the galaxy can people find and hear you
01:13:01
Speaker
Well, in this sector of the galaxy, you can always find me at ElsassyPants on social media, E-L-S-A-S-S-Y-P-A-N-T-S. You can also catch me in the first season of A-List casting out now on YouTube. I will be actually going this weekend to shoot season two, which I'm very excited about.
01:13:18
Speaker
um And then you can always check me out on the Geekscape Network at Napping Through Happy Hour or Marvel Movie Talk. And coming up in March, if you're listening to this, check out Internet Supreme Court.
01:13:30
Speaker
It's going to be a fun one. Okay, that's automatically better than the real Supreme Court. Yay! yeah ah ah Because we split on the first one, we will open up the voting for ah Mining the mine's Mind's Minds.
01:13:44
Speaker
And we'll check it out on Blue Sky right there in your Spotify app. You can vote for it. And if I remember to update the website, TrekMaryKillBod.com for that poll and also all of our standings for all the Trek, Marys and Kills we've done throughout the various series.
01:13:57
Speaker
And we're TrekMaryKBod on social media. Until next time and next month for Animated Spotlight, TMK out.