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PIC: "Et in Arcadia Ego," Parts I & II (s1e9-10)
142 Plays27 days ago
OH HEAVENS NO! Bryan & Kristen marvel at the tax dollars used to make the last two episodes of Star Trek: Picard's first season, but are these final two episodes a TREK, MARRY, or KILL? The grades begin at (23:26).
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Next on Trek, Mary kill orchids data, death. Make it. So
00:00:09
Speaker
we just came 25 light years in 15 minutes. I noticed a little turbulence. We call it Coppelius. I was born there. Do they hate us? I really don't think so.
00:00:21
Speaker
I'm picking up five bogeys coming right at us.
00:00:29
Speaker
All power's gone. What do we do about it? Raise yourself!
00:00:38
Speaker
I want you to reconsider your present course of action. We have no choice. That is a failure of imagination. What are you doing here? Trying to save the universe? All ships prepare to fight.
00:00:51
Speaker
The end. Everything. The sky will crack. The worlds will burn. Show them you're not the enemy. You're not the destroyer.
00:01:02
Speaker
The
00:01:06
Speaker
End
00:01:16
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm
Focus on Star Trek: Picard
00:01:18
Speaker
Kristen. Welcome to Trek, Marry, Kill, a podcast that judges episodes of Star Trek. An alliance of synthetic life judges all organic life in the universe. This week, we're wrapping up our look back at Star Trek Picard's first season, which premiered on Paramount Plus, then CBS All Access, five years ago.
00:01:35
Speaker
We made it to the end, somehow. Yeah, you know, and it was touch and go there for a while. We
Podcasting Challenges and Reflections
00:01:41
Speaker
almost had a falling out the last time around, and if we're being honest. There was some freedom there was tense moments, lots of emotions there.
00:01:49
Speaker
But we've reached the end here. Episodes 9 and 10. Et Arcadia Ego. ah Parts one and two are the ninth and tenth episodes of Star Trek Picard's first season.
00:02:01
Speaker
They premiered on CBS All Access March 19th and March 26th, 2020, respectively. So like right before
Impact of COVID-19 on Show Release
00:02:09
Speaker
they declared the lockdown, I think, I think the 27th. No, it was before. okay Because my birthday is the 26th and I was already home for at least a week.
00:02:19
Speaker
Ah, so yeah, I think for some reason I remember the 27th as being for us some formal declaration, but anyway. Well, there was, so it was like, we're going to go home for two weeks, but I was going to come in like once a week to check the mail. Cause we would get like paper checks at work still. and I was expecting paper checks.
00:02:41
Speaker
And then i think it was either, uh, The governor or LA County or something said you can't have any office workers unless they're ah essential workers.
Creative Team and Plot Summary
00:02:54
Speaker
And I was critical but not essential, so I was not allowed to go in.
00:02:57
Speaker
That's a wild time to think about five years ago and how much of the world has changed radically. Anyway, part one. tell Part one's teleplay was written together by Michael Chabon and his wife, Islet Waldman.
00:03:11
Speaker
I think I'm saying her name right. From a story by Chabon, Waldman, and Akiva Goldsman. Part two credits Michael Chabon with a teleplay by credit while giving story by credit to Michael Chabon with Akiva Goldsman.
00:03:23
Speaker
Both episodes were directed by Akiva Goldsman. how do you What is your thoughts on Akiva's direction? There was like one or two shots where someone was basically like walking out of the shot accident, like not framed right. And I was like, that's weird.
00:03:40
Speaker
There was this episode... Like, gonna redo that or no? okay Okay. Keep going. the i think this whole season kind of has a very shaggy quality to it for plenty of reasons. And I think by the end they were like...
00:03:56
Speaker
Well, I'm going to get into the production notes. this These particular episodes actually had their own unique challenges versus some of the other ones. But yeah, I don't know. He was very focused on making sure we got people walking into the white light.
00:04:10
Speaker
You know, it was very there's like a cool spiritual shot. um I don't know. it just It was functional. was effective. It wasn't distracting in any way. um But there was a lot of...
00:04:22
Speaker
continuity errors, let's be honest. There were some overhead shots where the crowd was gone. you know what mean? Like they were standing right underneath this tower that Soji's building. And then suddenly when we cut to the wide shot, no one's there.
00:04:34
Speaker
So I don't know. It's just... It's tough. Okay, no memory alpha description. I'll try to summarize it quickly. With the Romulans off to a head start towards Soji's homeworld of Gion IV, which her people call Coppelius, Soji activates a transwork conduit to get Picard and crew ahead of the Romulan fleet.
00:04:52
Speaker
There, they are greeted by the planet's defense system, a fleet of space-faring orchids. um The La Sirena and then the Borg artifact, piloted by Seven of Nine, are brought down by these orchids.
00:05:04
Speaker
They crash land. Picard and co. make their way from the Crash La Serena to the settlement of androids. And it's here that we meet all the synths, all the twin androids, such as Sutra, the twin of the android woman killed by Rios' former captain.
00:05:19
Speaker
And we meet... but but but but Brent Spiner playing yet another Soong. This time it's Alton Inigo Soong, Dr. Noonien Soong's biological son.
00:05:30
Speaker
They had had some time around he made data and lore, I guess. I'm not clear. Anyway, Sutra knows how to do Vulcan mind melds and downloads the admonition from Dr. Jurati's mind and recognizes it not as a warning to biological life, but as a calling card for synthetic life.
00:05:47
Speaker
There's ah basically a federation of synthetic life, and they basically let synthetics across the universe know, hey, when the biology the biological life turns on you, give us a call and wipe out the biological life.
00:06:02
Speaker
And so that's what Sutra pushes Soji to do to fulfill her goal of being the destroyer. ah Picard tries convince Soji not to build and activate a beacon to call these demons while trying to fend off the Romulan fleet that's just arrived.
00:06:17
Speaker
He's piloting the Lost Arena himself. The Orchids
Picard's Transformation Controversy
00:06:20
Speaker
join the fight and then so does Captain Riker at the last minute. But it all comes down to Picard using his final moments of life to urge Soji to make the right choice and call off the attack, which he does, of course.
00:06:32
Speaker
And then Jean-Luc Picard dies. But he's reborn in an android body after having a little discussion with Data about death and dying mortality. So let's just jump right in.
00:06:44
Speaker
Okay. Jean-Luc Picard dies at the end of these two episodes as a human being. His consciousness is transferred into a synthetic Gollum body. Okay. i hate this so much.
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah. What's the like? None of it. Like, I know they like, well, we have to, you know, make the point that synthetics are, you know, it's fine, but like,
00:07:13
Speaker
No, you don't. and Whatever. because you didn't you know how You know how I know it's dumb? Because it's never like it's it's referenced briefly in season three, but we're kind of just like sweeping it under the rug. like let' Forget about that. don't Don't think about it too hard.
00:07:32
Speaker
It's the same with season two in a lot of ways. Yeah, I haven't watched that, and I don't plan to, unless you force me to. ah No, we've already killed him.
00:07:44
Speaker
It's strange because this whole project started as... let's do a Borg show with seven of nine and as Batman and her Robin is Hugh.
00:07:54
Speaker
Really? then they're like, wait a minute. What if we got Patrick Stewart? And then you go and you read some of the interviews for the finale that they did after the finale of Picard season one. And you find out that the original, original, original germ, the one that went with the plus one So one is seven of nine in Hugh plus one. Here's the other one was what if we did a short treks with Patrick, with Captain Picard?
00:08:19
Speaker
We told a story of young Picard and it ended it with like a capstone. We get Patrick Stewart back for a scene as Captain Picard or Admiral Picard. And then Alex Kurtzman's like, why would we do just a short trek? Why don't we do a whole series about him? So then that's how you get one plus one equals two.
00:08:35
Speaker
And this is two. And the two, somehow, the way they were able to get Picard, Patrick Stewart, Sir Patrick Stewart, to come into it was, I guess, flatter him, but also appeal to his ego in that he wanted to do a story that addressed Brexit.
00:08:49
Speaker
And so somehow theyn that somehow the refugee crisis was like, well, we can take the J.J. Abrams movie as a starting point. Picard was involved in that in the Countdown comic book.
00:09:01
Speaker
that Alex Kurtzman co-wrote that preceded the Star Trek 09 movie, we can use that as a launching off point. So bang, there's your refugee crisis yeah that brexit Brexit is in part attached to. There you go, Patrick Stewart. You tried to save the refugees.
00:09:15
Speaker
How the synthetic part of the story gets in there is so strange to me. And Siobhan Goldsman are like, this is where it was always heading. And we wanted to make the point that synthetic life and biological life are the same.
00:09:28
Speaker
But they're not. They're really not. i mean that's what why That's why these aliens are going to come from another dimension and say, oh, you've got a virus and that's biological life.
00:09:40
Speaker
We'll get rid of it for you. Like that's it's it's plainly not. And also the show does not grapple with this beyond. Also, so completely.
00:09:52
Speaker
It contradicts that when the end data says, will you please ah remove my consciousness? Cause I want to know what it mortality feels like. Cause life isn't special unless you know, it's going to end.
00:10:06
Speaker
That's right. That's right. So Ryan Britt for sci-fi.com asked Michael Chabon, was this concept ever deemed too risky? Were the writers nervous? And Michael Chabon says, I wasn't personally nervous.
00:10:19
Speaker
i don't think, ner and I'm chuckling because it says in the article, Michael Chabon says with a laugh. I don't think nervous was the word. It felt bold. If we didn't do do it then that meant we were totally chicken chickening out on one of our clear stated theses of the series that synthetic life is just as valuable as ah organic life if Picard believes that premise and by extension we believe it and the Federation and Starfleet believe it then the ultimate test the ultimate proof of that belief can be found in making Jean-Luc Picard a synthetic life form
00:10:51
Speaker
That is not a good enough reason.
Episode Title Significance and Trivia
00:10:53
Speaker
i though I also think it's tortured reasoning of like, well, this is where it has to go because i think there's some...
00:11:03
Speaker
It looks like some misogyny got in your storytelling there. Deanna Troy actually lays out exactly how this should have gone when she said, my son died because the synth band prevented synthetic life from augmenting organic life, right? Basically, that's what she's saying. There's something synthetic that could have been done to save my son.
00:11:23
Speaker
That could have happened at the end here where Picard's brain is breaking down. They're like what if we propped it up with some synthetic life? But they, yeah because it's so, they weren't, nothing about this show was organic.
00:11:35
Speaker
At any point, it was always like square pegs and round holes. They didn't think about what they had taken the time they had accidentally set up as the solution here. And so instead we get Picard in a golem, in a synthetic body that has, that is, that looks exactly the same as him.
00:11:53
Speaker
And will be just as mortal as he is. No superpowers. So what is the point? Is it a fear that he's conquering? He's like, you know, I've always advocated for the rights, but I've never like walked in someone else's shoes.
00:12:06
Speaker
ah Consciousness transfer. What does he feel about that? No one on the La Serena, no one in the immediate crew has the exact prejudice against synthetics. You know, Raffi and Rios are kind of indifferent to the whole idea. They're like, whatever.
00:12:20
Speaker
The synth band is the synth band. And then Dr. Jurati obviously is an innovator. She's like pro-synthetic life. So you don't have anyone that he has to win over. No one has to be won over to this idea that Picard is suddenly yeah ah synthetic body. There's no, you know, Commodore O is about all that we get. We don't get...
00:12:37
Speaker
ah My parents were on Mars when the when the since turned I fucking eight cents. You know, I mean, there's none of that yeah in there. So it's just very, it's just basically very, let's go with it. um So bond went on to say that measure of a man is what actually set this conclusion.
00:12:55
Speaker
That episode states a premise about data and by extension, all sentient artificial life. is one of the starting places thematically for this entire season. By making this decision decision, it felt like an opportunity to put our money where our mouth is philosophically.
00:13:08
Speaker
i mean, he's still Jean-Luc Picard. He's sentient. He has the same memories. His mind, his consciousness is identical to when it was being held in an organic bag of meat and cells. So why are you doing it? Like what?
00:13:22
Speaker
It doesn't make any sense. Again, but i liked your idea, but I was thinking the same thing. Like he has this brain problem. can't Couldn't they use, you know, the synthetic technology they have to, you know, synthesize something, whatever, get rid of the brain disease.
00:13:39
Speaker
Also, Picard was half cybernetic for a while when he was Borg. And so that's never really dealt with in any meaningful way. We have a fight between Seven of Nine and Nerissa, where Seven of Nine kills her, and she's talking about how Seven of Nine should think of herself as a disgusting half-breed because she's an XB.
00:13:57
Speaker
Well, so is Picard. So it's just like, are you... he's already been partly synthetic. Like it's just very, it's not the logical conclusion of what they were setting up.
00:14:08
Speaker
And it's just a very straight, but I can don't believe them that that was the idea the whole time. I'm so sorry, guys. yeah i I have more faith in you that you're better writers than this. I don't know what happened.
00:14:20
Speaker
I don't know kind of notes you got. or if it was a product of you, Oh, we want, we need to get two more episodes out of it or whatever, but this wasn't it. i find it all I find it hard to believe that the original idea was to have four fucking Sojis.
00:14:39
Speaker
yeah Right.
00:14:42
Speaker
They really stepped in it when they were like twins. every Every android said is a twin. ah So I want to ask you, did Admiral Picard's death affect you when you saw him die? No, because it happened for five seconds and then he's back.
00:14:58
Speaker
That's right. By the way, how angry would you be if you were 94 and they put you into a synthetic body and they made you look just as old? Had the creaky knees, everything. yeah Can't go upstairs, has to sit down in every scene. Yeah, exactly.
00:15:19
Speaker
would be fucking livid. Like not only did you make me into a synthetic body, like you put my consciousness into a synthetic body, like without consulting me about it.
00:15:31
Speaker
but you didn't even like de-age me a little bit. That's right. I went back to like 60. The ballsiest move would have been to put him in a different actor. And then you're like, this is Captain, this is Jean-Luc Picard now.
00:15:44
Speaker
Like the, like the, um, Dr. Heeler or whatever. Yeah. It's James McAvoy. Here you go. um And that that would have sold the idea, I think.
00:15:57
Speaker
That would have been the extremely ballsy move to do. um And then you could have had a lot to play with. But I don't know. It's just – it's tough. It's been tough. I admit that I had not touched – these episodes since I watched them at midnight wow and ah and a confession that as this as this series aired in the first season that I could not sleep I was so upset i oh my god it would be fair wow it was very hard to watch this and it's not that I was sad that patrick's that Captain Picard died it was just more like I can't believe this is how Captain Picard died
00:16:39
Speaker
I know. ah He has a brain problem, which in all good things is presented as basically space Alzheimer's. Yeah. And instead they're like, no, it's like a he could stroke out at any time.
00:16:53
Speaker
And that's what happens. And um that's a bummer. They never even say Eremotic Syndrome. They go 10 episodes. They never drop Eremotic Syndrome. So I don't know what that's all about.
00:17:04
Speaker
They must have just thought it was too silly because it would have been like the audience wouldn't understand it. So we'll just put in Space Orchids and all these Latin phrases or obscure references and all that stuff. But if we say what Eremotic Syndrome is, that's the one Easter egg they won't understand. Spot, they'll understand.
00:17:23
Speaker
Oh, yeah. well yeah But not literally the plot of the finale. And i don't know, maybe they had to pay Ron more. That doesn't make any sense. They wouldn't have had to do that. So I don't, I don't understand.
00:17:35
Speaker
Anyway, some production notes. Et in Arcadio Ego means, even in Arcadia, there am I. ah reminder that death is present, even in paradise.
00:17:47
Speaker
I swear I was reading it E.T. in Arcadia like it was the, um eat like a bad E.T. Like the, ah The sequel to E.T. The extra-trivial? It's like produced the unproduced sel like, just like the production name. Like, you know they give codenames to stuff? Yeah, yeah.
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah. That's Encino Man 2 was in Arcadia. Yeah, exactly.
00:18:09
Speaker
Coppelius is, ah i think, a reference to a ballet, Coppelia, which is about a doctor Coppelius who made life-size doll or a life-size doll. It's an old 1800s ballet.
00:18:21
Speaker
So he made this life-size doll. And of course, that's the prima ballerina. And I think the character falls in love with it, which I guess makes sense with tracks with that, I guess. ah The Coppelius location was originally built...
00:18:34
Speaker
in a parking lot somewhere, but there was an LA heat wave that made it impossible to shoot at. So they had to scramble to find another spot. And it looks like they found a rich dude's compound in Malibu.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah. That's gotta be. Yeah. ah Part one is the first episode of the series, meaning Star Trek Picard, not to begin with either a flashback or a dream sequence. I didn't realize that. Me neither.
00:18:58
Speaker
And that, okay. I guess it a makes sense. And I also, and while watching this episode thought, they're like way better flashbacks that they could have done throughout the season. And they didn't do, they, all the ones they picked were pretty, except for the very first one with Picard and data playing poker in the street, except for that, like nothing was all that special, you know, like it wasn't very good.
00:19:20
Speaker
So like, well, it would have been cool if we had seen the, the moment where, um, doctor where bruce maddox is like in a space suit floating through space sifting through the rubble of the of the ship that he destroyed in star trek nemesis looking for data's remains because that's the implication is that he salvaged what was left of data and cloned this positronic brain oh i kind of wanted to see that know it would have been kind of fun to see data find data's head in space debris Part one is also one of only three Star Trek episodes with no depiction of characters wearing any form of Starfleet uniform. The other two are the Short Trek episode Calypso and in Star Trek Picard Absolute Candor.
00:20:03
Speaker
After the battle between the La Serena and Narek's snakehead ship, Raffi's holographic display depicting Narek's life signs is a reuse of the animation of Seven of Nine's board components,
00:20:15
Speaker
from Stardust City Rag. That's just for me, Kristen. Sorry, I know you don't care about that shit. But I'm like, what? There is there are literally, in every shot of these two episodes, there is a visual effect. They're either adding plants or butterflies or pop-up displays, literally in every shot.
00:20:33
Speaker
And so i it's not needed. Correct. I'm going to talk about that later as a California taxpayer. Okay. oh And ah so I just was I thought it was interesting to be like, OK, so they I mean, it makes sense that they would reuse them.
00:20:49
Speaker
But I admit, like all that stuff just washes over me. I don't pay attention to what every little bit of display does, but people do. And I appreciate that. So I'm like, OK, good. At least they they did recycle.
00:21:00
Speaker
That makes sense. um Anyway, though not mentioned in either parts one or two, Alton Inigo Sung's work on transferring organic minds to positronic bodies is possibly inspired by his father's success on his own wife, Juliana, as shown in Inheritance from Star Trek The Next Generation.
00:21:19
Speaker
rememberda
Character Inspiration and Broader Lore
00:21:20
Speaker
Remember that episode where Data finds his mom? And then now he talks to a holographic representation of a young Dr. Soong who's like, hey, don't tell her she's an android. Just let her live out the rest of her life.
00:21:32
Speaker
Anyway, but that is... that This is Memory Alpha kind of speculating, but they're kind of leaving the very obvious example on the table, which is Dr. Ira Graves' work as a portrayed in the episode The Schizoid Man.
00:21:47
Speaker
That one is where this lecherous old horny guy transfers his consciousness into data and overwrites data's programming. And he's like, now I'm young and virile. You will now be with me. And he's cranky and erratic.
00:22:00
Speaker
But so the work, and the groundwork had already been laid in Star Trek. So it it was already there. wasn't all Dr. Sung there. All right. Some some part two notes. The USS Jang Hay Bridge is a redress of the Discovery Bridge. I'm sure you figured you caught that.
00:22:15
Speaker
We're right. You're sitting on there. I mean, I caught that it he was not on the same set as everyone else. That's right. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense he's not there when Picard dies. You know, you think one of his buddies should stick around for that. mean, he's literally in orbit. Exactly.
00:22:32
Speaker
ah Jonathan Frakes was actually directing an episode of Discovery's third season, and he took some time to shoot that bit. Narek disappears from the narrative after pleading with Soji to disable the transmitter. His fate is not revealed.
00:22:45
Speaker
According to showrunner but Michael Chabon, a scene-depicting... A scene depicting Narek being taken into Federation custody was ultimately cut from the episode. Narek mentions that by some accounts, the story of Seb Cheneb dates back from long before our ancestors first arrived on Vulcan.
00:23:01
Speaker
The possibility that Vulcans and thus by extension Romulans might have descended from interstellar colonists was raised in the original series episode, Return to Tomorrow, which i did not know that.
00:23:12
Speaker
I did not realize that. I've only seen Return to Tomorrow a couple of times. Um, And then the final note, Michael Chabon called Data's headspace that Picard visits the Dataverse. Okay.
00:23:24
Speaker
There we go. Shall we get into the grades? Yes. Great moments.
00:23:35
Speaker
Oh, it's Dr. Soong and he looks just like Data. But old.
00:23:44
Speaker
surprise i mean it's not a surprise at all like that's right you could have seen that one coming from a mile away um and then honestly i don't have another one i thought until the next episode in the part one i liked i thought it was a great scene that it was after jaradi helps the car to regain consciousness after the ship has crashed And they go out onto the bridge and everyone's sitting around.
00:24:12
Speaker
And he
Performance Critiques and Praise
00:24:13
Speaker
Patrick Stewart looks five years younger, 10 years younger. Like his energy in these two episodes was like really up. And it was like, yeah they it was very strange. He like de-aged somehow. But anyway, he was just like, hey, listen, I got this brain issue. I don't want to talk about it.
00:24:29
Speaker
And then all the crew is kind of upset. And then he focuses everybody. And then he's like, what are we doing? Like, what do we know based on our last sensor read before we crashed? What's going on in the settlement? He was Captain Picard in that moment. And I thought it was a great it was the one moment where they're all working together as a crew and they all seem like real people.
00:24:48
Speaker
So I really appreciated that. And I think the performance has helped with that. um I also thought the moment where Rafi tells Picard she loves him. And even though he awkwardly says he loves her too back.
00:25:01
Speaker
um I think it's good. I think, I mean, I like Rafi. I like Michelle hurt at least. And so I like Rafi a little bit. And I thought Rafi was pretty sharp, was, was like a pretty, normal character in these two episodes.
00:25:14
Speaker
um And I in that moment that she's, she is someone that would tell that now she's only doing that because yeah, she, she hears he's got a terminal condition. So I like that. And then,
00:25:25
Speaker
gotta to be honest. I don't know if it's a great, great moment, but I want to put it in here because I respected it. I actually liked the beat between Harry Treadway, Narek, and Peyton List, Nerissa, where they get like a decent moment together of be two as brother and sister. And she's like, don't forget our parents and all the struggles we've gone through to come to this moment to annihilate these synthetics. And he's like, yeah, what do you think? I've been the fuck up our whole time, though our whole lives.
00:25:49
Speaker
And now I'm the one that found her and found this place. And I want to like make good. I'm not the loser in the family. Who's the fuck up now, Narissa? That's right. I just thought they were both very grounded. Like everyone was actually, you asked about Akiva Goldsmith's direction and believe it or not, like all these performances are pretty grounded.
00:26:09
Speaker
Like it's not really, it's only cartoony at the very end. Commodore O, basically everything she's doing. I don't mean like that the direction, like the direction of the camera. Sure, sure.
00:26:20
Speaker
Absolutely. Where the camera was going. Yeah. Yeah. But acting-wise, I thought there was ah some neat performances basically from everybody. Nobody bothered me. but i think it's the other thing. Yeah, I guess.
00:26:31
Speaker
I mean, the some of the synths bothered me, but like... Yes, they were also being told... That was casting and and writing, I guess. All right, what do you have from episode two, then? Okay, so when Rafi and Rios are back on the Lost Arena and they hear thumping and then Rafi says, oh, the abusive Romulan boyfriend...
00:26:53
Speaker
is is back and he's throwing rocks at the ah the ship. I thought that was funny. ah I liked his story of the Chahalugu and the Legend of the Destroyer and they're literally sitting around a campfire as he tells this yeah ridiculous cartoonish absolutely like Michael Chabon writing for his life being like I have to make something interesting in the shows at some point so I'm gonna write this spooky ghost story about the destroyer um i but I thought it I thought it was a nice moment um
00:27:29
Speaker
And then I thought Picard and Jurati discussing the Picard maneuver, not the actual execution. That was ridiculous. Yeah. But I liked, and I didn't, I didn't even really appreciate that she knew that he had the Picard maneuver because she's not Mariner or Boimler or like, you know, she's not a Starfleet person.
00:27:46
Speaker
So her knowing about the Picard maneuver was dumb, but I liked that it then led into Picard explaining it some more. And I just thought it was nice because Patrick Stewart through the whole, both episodes was giving a really good performance.
00:27:58
Speaker
So. Yeah, I also put down that. Any others? Yeah, I also liked it when like the cavalry arrives. Oh, you did? It's acting Captain Riker, even though the ships are way too close together.
00:28:11
Speaker
And it's just a copy and paste, all the same class of shit. Yeah. and Way too close together. doesn't make any sense. If he's acting captain, why does he have to say he's acting captain?
00:28:22
Speaker
but Yeah. Like, that is that was one of the biggest... Like, a real captain is... yeah somewhere else my kicking and screaming and staying up late at night was not because they copied and pasted a a bunch of ships but i'm sure you can guess kristen that at the time the biggest problem that star trek fans had was that it was one class of ships yeah and also and then in dialogue reicher says it's the best ship they've built so far and just to make it clear we built a hundred of them yeah yeah
00:29:00
Speaker
um I noticed we're not putting the data... Picard conversation. I didn't mind it I didn't mind the Fireside Chat that much. now So put it down.
00:29:12
Speaker
that i i literally just put, I didn't mind the Fireside Chat data. Maybe that should be a new grade. Things we didn't mind. I'm not going to say it was horrible. I'm not going to say it was a great, you know, top scene.
00:29:28
Speaker
But I... I think that those two characters together are pretty good. Now that moment, but Patrick Stewart really loved doing that scene. It was something they shot. I think it was the last day of shooting and it was the first thing they shot and all that stuff. So great.
00:29:45
Speaker
um But what was really weird was that Michael Chabon said he started writing that scene like when the season started, which seems incongruous with all the other stuff that we... We've heard about how the season progressed, but also it seemed like um Akiva Goldsman was very much like, ah that's going to be a tough scene to write. Good luck, Michael Chabon. And like they were saying this in interviews. But then as the episode aired, there was like a lot of social media buzz, which Red Letter Media has pointed out was likely bot activity that was bot.
00:30:16
Speaker
which was like that scene was so emotional and so great. So we have to remember that this was trying to be CBS all access is like prestige play prestige. Yeah. And so it's like, they were like Michael Chabon, the, the, the great American writer is writing this great profound scene about morale, mortality and, and death and, and, you know, all this stuff.
00:30:38
Speaker
And between these two beloved characters and I don't know, I'm with you. I'm like, it's fine. Yeah. It's fine. The problem, the whole problem of it is though, is that the whole rest of the season is dumb. Like I don't care. I still to the, I still, i've so I watched the whole season. I don't care about Soji and Dodge or whatever. I don't care about any of them. I like, there's no reason for me to care about them.
00:31:07
Speaker
And, and they, they're risking life and limb for her. And it's, I don't know, i don't it just always comes back to her, and she is kind of an idiot, and I'll get into that later, but if like if if this were the culmination of something else, I think i would it's easier to buy it and to be like, oh, isn't that nice?
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah, my read, though, was like, okay, the show's Star Trek Picard, and yet somehow it's about data. Like, that was what was annoying to me. And also, what you just said, we don't care. And I'm i'm with you. It's very hard to care about anything. I do care about data.
00:31:45
Speaker
i don't care about the other. Like, oh, it's his daughter. Like, not really. and Michael Chabon, as I said in the comments above earlier, was like, well, we will care because Picard cares.
00:31:57
Speaker
And I think that is that is an assumption that that you can start with, but you have to prove it. and
Engaging Audiences and Creative Challenges
00:32:05
Speaker
I think what we're spotlighting here is the actual thing, the only thing that we were shown that was demonstrated was that Picard did care about data.
00:32:14
Speaker
And so that's why we do care the end a little bit about seeing data, because throughout it, that one thing Picard cared about that he's doing any of this was because, oh this is my friend, my dead friend's daughter.
00:32:25
Speaker
Like, he didn't care about data. So that's it. But all the other stuff that he's supposed to care about, ah he abandoned, ah he abandoned the Romulans, you know, it's like, yeah it's, it's all kind of muddy.
00:32:39
Speaker
i want to also jump in this comment that Michael Javon makes about death. either a Picard, Data, Icheb, Hugh, I will say, i don't think I quite understood that there were going to be people who would be upset about a character's death, regardless of how that character died.
00:32:54
Speaker
That's simply the fact the character the fact of a character dying. That was not okay with them. Even if I had known that, I would have ultimately dismissed it because it seems I just don't understand television that way.
00:33:05
Speaker
I'll say. ah my God. I guess I just don't understand this thing I make a living at.
00:33:14
Speaker
color surprised I don't know. People would get upset that I killed this guy off and he had nobody around but a character we just met one episode ago. People seem pretty steamed about it.
00:33:28
Speaker
That's weird. so do ah Did you ever watch The um the Walking Dead? I've mentioned this before on Trek, Mary, Kill. I watched it up until the episode where the lawyer woman tries to get Rick to negotiate with whoever the villain was.
00:33:46
Speaker
It's like this midway through second season. Okay. I don't know what season it was, but they killed off Herschel who people liked. Yeah. I think, is it Robert Kirkman? Is that his name?
00:33:57
Speaker
Yes. The guy who does. Okay. And they're ah on the talking dead afterward. ah he was like, oh yeah, I didn't know people would react that way. I guess if anybody had challenged me on it at all, I probably would have not done it. And i my head my fucking head exploded. like Nobody said anything. They're like, okay, you're going do all right?
00:34:21
Speaker
We used to have real writer's rooms when people be like, no, that's stupid fucking idea. And people go, yeah, you're right. And then like go back and do something else. Well, in a lot of writers' rooms, if the if it's the showrunner with the stupid fucking idea, that's the idea that we're doing.
00:34:37
Speaker
so Yeah. but I've also been watching the um the documentary about The Sopranos. Yeah. And, ah God, what's his name? The guy who created it.
00:34:49
Speaker
David Chase. David Chase, yeah. So he's like, I remember just like me having to write everything and nobody was pitching ideas. And now I realize that it's because they were, they did pitch ideas, but they, I shot every one of them down and then they just stopped pitching stuff.
00:35:06
Speaker
So I had to write everything myself. It's like, oops. Like he's saying it isn't like that was wrong of me to have done. That's right. Yeah, absolutely. But like, yes. i the other The other option is Aaron Sorkin being like, I need a writer's room because I need you all to feed me ideas. I'm going to come in with questions. I'm going ask a lot of you questions.
00:35:28
Speaker
Give me answers like, well, what happened if this happened? And then I'm going to go home and I'm going to do so much cocaine and I'm going to stay up all night and write. That's the other way to do and Perfect.
00:35:40
Speaker
Best Trek tropes. Southern California as an alien planet. Welcome to Malibu. The 30 mile zone. Yeah. We have a spot two. I don't mind spot two.
00:35:53
Speaker
I put that as a worst Trek trope. i put I mean, it would be even more than wouldn't it? Yes, that's correct. i am maybe and may have to move it because I forget i wrote it down. What is that? Ice and men Where he keeps killing the... I don't know. but he This is definitely more than the second one.
00:36:10
Speaker
That's right. um um i isn't enough I wasn't a fan of that but anyway okay fine I'm not going to dispute you we best trector there's spot they but they hired a cat for the day just for that that's right the evil admiral the evil admiral slash commandor then Riker's ah sitting position when he's in the captain's chair oh my gosh that's great ah fucking nailed it Kristen yes yeah
00:36:42
Speaker
It's like, he he's doing it. He's doing it all the time. He talks about how when he's on lower decks, he he plays Riker differently, obviously. plays him for animation. and obviously that Riker's written differently. And it's just nice to see him be like, oh, but I'm on screen.
00:36:57
Speaker
and I'm in the uniform. i'm going to be regular Riker. He really was. And then my last one is, Data wants to know what mortality feels like. Because that's what humans humans do. He's just always trying to be more human.
00:37:10
Speaker
That's right. Even in his little simulation. I had warp travel times that it's going to take some time for the Romulans to catch up to them. That's good. It's like a chance to catch our breaths. I feel like if it was Strange New Worlds, it'd be five minutes later. That's right.
00:37:26
Speaker
We have five minutes until to figure this out. ah Subspace has an infinite number of domains. This isn't a callback to schisms. It's just a reminder that you can send signals deep in the subspace and some Eldritch horror will appear.
00:37:42
Speaker
is green Exactly. yeah And then Jean-Luc Picard can pilot a fucking ship. Oh, yeah. Don't forget. knows how to pilot a ship.
00:37:55
Speaker
He can't do anything else while he's doing it, but that's fine. Stop talking to me. Agnes, first of all, murder. Oh, one last one.
00:38:06
Speaker
The costumes for the androids evoked the original series. So I'm going to say scantily clad aliens. Oh, yeah. Yeah. there are All the cutouts. That's a good one, actually. Yeah.
00:38:18
Speaker
hu um That was that whole sequence is like they're on a compound. ah You know, Akiva Goldsman's like, how can I convince my millionaire buddy to let us shoot at on this compound? It's like, what if I have a bunch of half naked twins walking around?
00:38:35
Speaker
Perfect. say Yeah. And this buddy's like, I can get used to this. Yeah. But he's like, I'm not even there. Yeah. They're drilling holes in his walls. and By the way, if you ever do rent out, anyone out there who's listening, if they ever do rent out your place to shoot on location or whatever, they will damage your property.
00:38:56
Speaker
Like that's what.
Production Details and Sci-Fi Realism
00:38:58
Speaker
I actually know someone who like had their house used as for a shoot, but it was not anything science fiction. It just like low budget. And she said that everything was put back like perfectly. Yes, they do do that and they do make repairs, but they will break stuff most of the time.
00:39:13
Speaker
All right. Where's Strictropes? Okay, here we go. Rios has a lighter in space, a, a Bic lighter.
00:39:24
Speaker
You and I are probably the only two people on, on the planet who are like open flames. You cannot have open flame on a spacecraft.
00:39:36
Speaker
don't know how many times I have to say it.
00:39:42
Speaker
is. was crazy. Okay. It consumes life support. It literally consumes. And and creates but all of the oxygen is very flammable. That's right.
00:39:59
Speaker
But people think it's like an office building. It's not. And you're not really supposed to have an open flame in an office building either. No, because it starts fires. Oh,
00:40:10
Speaker
Him smoking and everything. Oh my God. I mean, i mean, I guess they, don't know. Have they invented smoking? It's not bad for you anymore, but whatever. Oh, Raffi did have a vape, but it kind of started as like, maybe it didn't emit smoke.
00:40:23
Speaker
And so it's just very, I don't know. It's, it's yeah, I'm with you. Okay. What else? Okay, I've already talked about it, but there's no reason for there to be this many Sojis. It's so dumb.
00:40:36
Speaker
it's too many I'm sick of her. I'm so sick of her. like I've already been sick of her. And now we find out there's actually more of her. Ugh, no. two is more than enough.
00:40:47
Speaker
And then there are other twins. there you know every Every android there is a twin. To me, it doesn't... If you go back to the pilot, I don't even think you need Dodge to die. You can just have one.
00:40:59
Speaker
right And she survives the attack or whatever. Like, I don't need another one. I'm with you. Can a synth even do a mind meld? That's what I had. Mind melds are usually best Trek troops. This is a worst Trek troop. What's going on here?
00:41:15
Speaker
Yeah, usually mind meld for me, I'm like, yeah. Rack it up and best, but no. This doesn't make any sense. Yeah. I've learned the ways. Bitch. No, you have not. i i don't believe it.
00:41:27
Speaker
Also, she's still like what? Three, three years old. That's right. I think what happened was, is that they were like, how are we going to get the admonition to the androids so that she can look at it and say, Oh no, this is, it's a warning for humans, but it's like literally nine one one for androids.
00:41:46
Speaker
Um, i And so I think that's what they backed into. was like, well, she got it from mind meld, so what if she imparts it from a mind meld? When it's weird, because in part two, we see that Tsung is able to see through the android's like eyes, see the memory record through the eyes, so couldn't you just use that technology to have Jurati remember it?
00:42:10
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah, and I don't even get it. like I wasn't even following like what... She's like, oh, yes... I have to do it this way. Whatever. Our evolution is your destruction. Yeah.
00:42:23
Speaker
And my my next one is, why is it not death on sight for Agnes Tarani, wherever she goes? I don't, like, oh, yes, we'll bring you into the fold, Agnes. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Narek should be shot dead on sight. Once the synths turn on Picard and crew, the fact that then raf they're taken prisoner, okay.
00:42:48
Speaker
Maybe it'd be rude to kill their guests. they Maybe they don't believe in that. But then Raffi and Rios just walking up to the front door again. That's just absolutely. i agree. And I have another one.
00:43:00
Speaker
Nerissa was just chilling on the board queue this whole time? That's right. She was. No injuries from being attacked by all those XBs. Nothing. Okay. She was hiding out. 50 floors, 30 floors up, but then she snaked her way all the way down to greet her brother on the ground floor and then brought him. ah This is where i've been hiding.
00:43:26
Speaker
And they go 30. but up again Because she falls a great distance when seven of nine kicks her. Yes. And I also, my last one, sorry. I do not understand Soji's um mindset, her motivations anymore or ever.
00:43:43
Speaker
i don't know what she's looking for anymore. i don't know what makes her tick at all. So Soji is like trying to understand where she's coming from and what this is all about. And then we have the other, the one, the sister of the...
00:44:00
Speaker
of the synth killed by Rios's captain. What was her name? Whatever. Sutra. Sutra is the one that pushes Soji. why so The question I have is why is Soji the only one who can call them?
00:44:16
Speaker
Or build it, because all the other ones are built really dumb. likes I don't know. He's the destroyer. Yeah, I don't recall what the reasoning for that was, but there we go.
00:44:28
Speaker
So like, the is she remembering a pattern she saw when she was talking to the woman on the artifact? I don't remember. I don't recall that being there being a reason for that.
00:44:40
Speaker
But Sutra pushes her being like, see, the organics are going to kill us when they have the chance. That was the intention behind it. and um But she's like, but at no point she's like, oh yeah, well I've been spending a lot of time with these organics. And I feel like maybe that's not the case right for all of them. i was one up until literally 10 days ago.
00:44:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. yeah It's flimsy. Let's say that. It's definitely, always said, these episodes are pretty shaggy. So it's actually shaggy. yeah I am tired of seeing this girl's face. I'm so sorry to the actress. I am sick of it.
00:45:13
Speaker
I cannot tell I don't want to see her again for a long time. Is she even in season two? Yes, she's in season two. Oh, okay. Well... And you want to know how she leaves the show? Because she's not in season three, obviously.
00:45:24
Speaker
Obviously. ah Yes. how How does she leave the show? Season two starts with Soji being like an ambassador for the synths. And so she's negotiating with the Federation. That's when we see her.
00:45:37
Speaker
Then there's time travel. And in the past, we find out that the same actress is playing the daughter of another Soong from the 2000s, played by Brent Spiner, who has like an illness where she can't go outside.
00:45:54
Speaker
And so he's trying to like use technology to heal her. Jesus fucking Christ. And then that all works out, and she finds out her father's ah an asshole because Q uses him. Anyway, it ends with this.
00:46:07
Speaker
Will Wheaton returns to Star Trek, Kristen. Oh, no. He offers... this human person, the chance to join him as um as a traveler.
00:46:19
Speaker
Because Wesley Crusher is now a traveler who travels through time and space, I guess. And it, it was, it's tough, but the Soji of the Soji, her arc basically ends in like episode one of season two.
00:46:34
Speaker
Like, she's like, I'm an ambassador for the sense, even though she ends this episode being like, I'm going to go travel around. Cause I'm used to being, you know, wanderer and no, now i'm I'm in the government.
00:46:45
Speaker
So anyway, that's what's going on. So they have this girl playing how many characters? One, two, three, four at least. yeah explain yeah Because we never saw the other one that died. right by the way, that should have been a flashback.
00:47:04
Speaker
Yeah, no, we we already decided yeah decided that they didn't have the budget to even like put a camcorder in the corner and like make it seem like security footage or something. They had to be like, I drew this.
00:47:16
Speaker
Well, this is an issue with the show. they didn't They didn't know Star Trek well enough to know what sets they would need to have just and and ready to go. They sunk all that money into their Vineyard set and then wrote a story that took you away from the Vineyard for most of it. You know, just stuff like that. Bad planning.
00:47:32
Speaker
ah You should always have a Starfleet, Starship bulkhead hallway corner that you can use for a second. Like, come on. Yeah. Mind melds. I put Spot as worst Trek tropes. We can disagree. It's not an issue. um Because it's like, he's just there for a day. and Or she's just there for a minute. And then that's it. It's like, so what what do we gain from that?
00:47:53
Speaker
You know what Now, if Spot, when Picard, when they go to kill Data... take him off life support. If Spot had been curled up, sleeping next to it, ma that would have been beautiful. yeah You didn't think to do that.
00:48:06
Speaker
Anyway, ah space distances. So as much as I appreciated warp travel time, I did i thought a worst Trek trope was being like, they did this in in Star Trek for many years, generations, favor very famously.
00:48:19
Speaker
It takes a very long time for something to get from the surface of a planet into space. And they were doing a lot of stuff instantaneously. The orchids get from the surface into space quickly.
00:48:30
Speaker
It crashes ships very quickly. um It also looks like ah the artifact in the last rain had crashed far apart. Yet ah this is, People are transiting between the artifact and the La Serena quickly from La Serena to the camp quickly. You know, Picard and Jurati, when they make their escape, getting back to the La Serena so quickly, that would have taken a lot longer.
00:48:51
Speaker
no Just like all these actual things that they don't really think through. Yeah. yeah Also, Riker gets from Nepenthe onto a starship and to this planet in like 36 hours, maybe, even though they had to use a transwarp conduit to get to their head of the Romulan fleet.
00:49:10
Speaker
No one detects the Romulan fleet traveling through space. It seems like the Federation would be like, like some Starfleet outpost would be like, hey, there's like 218 Romulan ships warping in unison. That's a little unusual.
00:49:23
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway, ah anti-science or science fantasy. We need to talk about this fidget spinner bullshit. Oh my God. ah White tape, whatever that was. i feel I feel like I'm counting on you to tell me what that actually is in real life. The four fingered thing. Is that like some fancy lighter?
00:49:43
Speaker
Like what is thought it i just i was a fidget spinner. No, I don't have no idea. it's It's ridiculous. It's a real thing. I don't know. It looks like a, ah like something they got from like, yes. sharper image or topic Or something. Yeah.
00:49:57
Speaker
A fancy lighter. i don't know, but it's got four finger holes in there. So I don't know what that they didn't build anything in this series. I don't know. Anyway, my point is, is like, that is just science magic or science fantasy where saga gives Rafi this fidget spinner. She's like, it fixes things.
00:50:14
Speaker
And then you just imagine You use your imagination. And you just imagine it and it happens. It's basically like programmable matter in Discovery, except it's not. And it's just like, what's going on here? And it's like, we need a way for them to fix the ship.
00:50:27
Speaker
And um my whole thought is like, you couldn't, Rios does has nothing to say or do in this whole, these two episodes. And he was a first officer. He can't riz one of these androids into helping them. Yeah. Android helping to fix a starship or spaceship.
00:50:44
Speaker
And we already know that they're dumb. Like they're gullible. I think it's a little weird that, um that Soong and and Bruce Maddox were making basically these hot, young, dumb,
00:50:55
Speaker
half-naked androids. Yeah, I also, ah I didn't actually write it down anywhere, but should have, but Picard's like, they've only had two hermits to teach them yes about the world. Like, obviously, don't know anything. There's something weird going on here. It's like, they' they've gone to the Playboy Mansion.
00:51:13
Speaker
yeah try them ah And then the last word structure of mustache-twirling villain. I mean, Commodore slash General O. On my command! Yes, prepare! There's a lot of, like, wind-up... Prepare the planet sterilization!
00:51:30
Speaker
A lot of preparing and throat clearing and pulling punches to build up tension again. There's a point in it where it's just like, oh, they're they're just fucking with us. if this is your main mission, who cares if there are 200 Starfleet ships across from you, you're at the planet, you're at the doorstep of your goal and you have, you've committed your life to obliterating these synths. so just open fire.
00:51:54
Speaker
Like, it's so stupid. It's just, it's just so dumb. So it's just very arch and, and undermines the, and whatever integrity they thought they had with the story. All right. Most cost playable character or moment.
00:52:07
Speaker
For me, it's Data in the smoking jacket drinking the, with the brandy snifter. I think you got to add on there where he looks so old like a tree.
00:52:20
Speaker
Like just as old you are. Oh yeah, he starts like... When we unplug your consciousness, you age for some reason. Okay. All right.
00:52:30
Speaker
I don't know, but I'll let it slide. yeah ah that's probably good. i couldn't ah I mean, maybe if you're a twin, you can go as twin, like the twin synths, I guess.
00:52:44
Speaker
Well, you could do that. I kind of, that'd be good for a cross-dressing situation too. If you're men doing the gold women, that would be fun. Yeah. I mean, there was the men, yeah there male presenting synths. We don't know if they have ah gender identities, I guess.
00:53:02
Speaker
But, You got Picard's pirate clothes maybe or Rios's vest with the soccer ball. Maybe those are the other ones I thought. Wait, why did he even have all the soccer balls anyway?
00:53:14
Speaker
Cause he is of Latin American descent. that's it that's Oh, so that's why, yeah. Everyone. He says, I caramba. He smokes Cubans and he likes soccer.
00:53:27
Speaker
Yeah. He says stuff and he swears in Spanish occasionally. That's right. I like, as we call it football. Yeah. Yeah, i got to take this everywhere where with me.
00:53:41
Speaker
i have a whole net full of soccer balls because I was going to go coach a little kid's team. That's right. I have PE class. yeah
00:53:50
Speaker
No, no, it's cool. The parents are here. It's not just the kids. Yeah. Now it's time for the line must be drawn. Great lines. Oh, the last time we're doing this for Star Trek Picard.
00:54:03
Speaker
Captain Jean-Luc Picard? Data's captain? I feel surprisingly moved. That's one of the scents talking because they're dumb. And then when Riker says, I'm supposed to stay in the woods making pizza while you have all the fun. And then Data says, Soongs can be, I believe the phrase an acquired taste.
00:54:27
Speaker
Picard, they are children and until now the only teachers they've had are a couple of your hermits and the fear of extermination. But fear is an incompetent teacher. Yes, they have life, but no one is teaching them what it's for.
00:54:40
Speaker
To be alive is a responsibility as well as a right. How are they supposed to learn that lesson in six minutes and 11 seconds? The way that children learn most things. By example.
00:54:54
Speaker
Would this have been a fun holo novel to play out? ah Not for me. No. I don't know which part, like, oh, you get to die and go in an android's body. Yeah, and the same old body.
00:55:06
Speaker
can't believe it. That's the thing that will really grind my gear. You couldn't even shave 10 years off? That's right. That's right. ah but My dick doesn't work still. I don't i know. Can you believe it?
00:55:18
Speaker
ah What part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? Um, that there's interdimensional synth, uh, machines that could destroy us all if we open a portal.
00:55:32
Speaker
I super duper think they're keeping that under wraps because they don't want any motherfuckers messing around with that. That one's classified. They're going to be like, no, there was an incident and it was resolved. And we don't know what.
00:55:47
Speaker
I put the Treaty of Alger on that, okay what which they've mentioned many times throughout Star Trek. you know, that was the treaty thing. Federation and the Romulans and all that stuff. I think he's like, no, your treaty because Riker cites it when he's sitting there in the captain's chair.
00:56:00
Speaker
ah What will Picard omit from or embellish in his memoir? I think he's really going to play up the I saved hum man humanity angle. For sure.
00:56:11
Speaker
um i did put as an omit. I think he'll maybe skip over the part where he was taking a nap while the galaxy was about to end. Remember Gerardi busts him out and he's sleeping on the bed? like what is this even He's like, no, we were working together to get out of there.
00:56:27
Speaker
Although her grabbing that eyeball out for the retinal scanner. Yeah. And then it was gross. Yeah, it was gross. I almost put that in the Astro Burger Award because I was like, is that is that that they attached to the eyeball? And it wasn't.
00:56:42
Speaker
All right. So check, marry or kill in Arcadia. Ego part one. um okay I think I'm killing that one. The first part. OK. Yeah. And then part two. That's just a soft track.
00:56:58
Speaker
Oh, okay. I was the opposite. Oh, okay. So we got to put it to vote. ah um i I have the first one because it calmed down and like especially that first moment where Picard wakes up and he's like, oh, that's Patrick Stewart is like normal. His voice sounds normal.
00:57:15
Speaker
His energy is normal. Like, oh, he's back. And he seemed like Captain Picard. And then I just thought with the with episode with part two everything around his death was silly.
00:57:25
Speaker
ah The orchids, the space battles, Commodore. Oh, like the copy paste starship. Sure. That does bother me at the end of the day. It just wasn't my first bit of bother.
00:57:36
Speaker
The fact that they put Picard in an Android body, but nothing's changed. You know, I just, the data scene was amped up and it's like, it's fine. I just thought, it's, I guess it's significant because Picard dies, but yeah. Here's the thing. if If I didn't see Riker in the captain's chair doing his little pose, I probably would have said kill.
00:57:59
Speaker
That's probably what I would honestly, now that I'm thinking about it, if I'm to analyze it
00:58:06
Speaker
That redeemed it for me. i was on the edge though. I was like, I don't like this. I can't. I've told you this before. Riker has was not my favorite character. i know. and it's just like, well, yeah, I love, right. I'm now with the the herd. i'm like, yes, I love. fred
00:58:28
Speaker
I mean, I just was just very happy that in these last two episodes, I'm like, Patrick Stewart is of sound mind and body. which Yeah, very nice seeing him basically one last time being Captain Picard in ah in a meaningful way, because we talked about this in Star Trek Picard season three. We get a couple of moments, really. But other than that, it's like, OK, he's very old. It's kind of hard to watch.
00:58:53
Speaker
So yeah. All right. Well, there we go. well We're going to put him to vote. This is how we're going to wrap up our coverage of Star Trek Picard by letting the listeners decide if the last two episodes are Treks or Kills. Those are the two options. Mary did not enter the conversation. No.
00:59:10
Speaker
of that
00:59:12
Speaker
For our episode descriptions, I like to also keep the three-word thing, so should it be, oh, heavens, no? Sure. Because Picard doesn't get to go to heaven. He gets trapped in an ancient android. Oh, heavens, no.
00:59:27
Speaker
um so yeah i can't really we didn't get it to any marys for star trek picard season one we of course killed all star trek picard season two and then you can go listen to our episodes on star trek picard season three which you did shortly after it came out a couple years ago now we were timely with that one yes how do you feel about the project that was star trek picard i think they had a few good ideas
00:59:54
Speaker
And they should have just done those first.
01:00:02
Speaker
i I really liked the third season. i don't think we killed any episode in the third season. No, it might just my protestation a little bit. i thought there Maybe like in retrospect, there's a couple we were too kind to, but ultimately, yeah. it was I mean, they were all Mary's, but they weren't. I mean, right I would say that I liked season three of Picard more than I liked anything I've seen of Enterprise. Yeah.
01:00:33
Speaker
All right this last bit I got to mention. And you and i can do this, Kristen. This is well within our rights as taxpayers of the fine state of California, which paid in part for... It subsidized all three seasons of Star Trek Picard under the tax credit system.
01:00:52
Speaker
You know, we not only paid for it with our subscription money, but through our hard labor. So I kind of feel like we are... we
Production Funding and Oversight
01:01:01
Speaker
can question some of the choices and not just come off angry fans.
01:01:05
Speaker
We actually can say, did you spend that money well? And I want to, I just want to quickly say Star Trek Picard season one had $75.57 million in qualified expenditures.
01:01:19
Speaker
And it was afforded a tax credit of $15.65 million. ah so we paid And season two, it was 101.25 million in qualified expenses. the state of California, 20.5 million. three, $100.5 million qualified expenses.
01:01:32
Speaker
the credit allocation for that was $20.6 million. So what that? 40 and 55. basically $57 million that we paid these three seasons total. suspect that money was not put to good use. six million dollars so what is that forty and fifty five so basically fifty seven million dollars that we paid for these three seasons total i suspect that money was not put to good use Most of the time.
01:01:57
Speaker
These episodes were very sloppy. Starting with, we can go all the way back to Akiva Goldsman admitting, we really only had story for nine episodes and yet we had to do 10. Okay.
01:02:08
Speaker
Well, that's not my problem as a taxpayer. but Yeah. ah ah They didn't even bother to revise the scripts very much. And I say that because as late as part one, Kristen, how many orchids are in defense of Coppelius?
01:02:22
Speaker
Do you remember? know. 10 they used to have 15 that's right but then eight minutes after that information is revealed when uh arcana and sorry when soji and sutra are talking trying to figure out what the next steps are sutra mentions that there are 23 orchids oh these are just little things and it's like the little things also signal the bigger things which is like also why are they spending money on these orchids that's right It doesn't make any sense. We get a little shield and it shoots out lasers or whatever. that That's easy, old old school visual effects.
01:02:59
Speaker
I cut this from, because i don't you know I notice I just talk at you when I read all these notes. But Michael Chabon said that in one of his interviews. He was like, that's my bad. I put that in there and I don't know why. I just wanted something exciting to be in there. And and that's you know that's why Michael Chabon is not running any shows anymore. oh my god he's just burning money so i guess what i'm getting at as a tax would it be cool if there were orchids that swallowed ships whole that's right uh how are we gonna film that oh no it's gonna have to be cg for sure it's gonna be real expensive i don't want it looking cheap
01:03:36
Speaker
It's so stupid. I'm not saying this is government waste. I think this i think we should be fighting for the arts in part. That makes sense. What I'm saying is that I think Michael Chabon and Akiva Goldsman owe the people of California a good story well told.
01:03:50
Speaker
thats Yeah. ah We should have pair protested Paramount Studios after this first season came out. It was a mess. We won our money back. It was a mess by their own admission.
01:04:02
Speaker
like that Like they're the ones saying we were figuring it out as we went along. It's just very sloppy. But here's the problem with like streaming stuff is they don't have the old school network system for someone, a network to be like, what knock this shit off. What the fuck do you mean, orchids? like That would have been crossed off on like the first round of network notes. It'd be like too expensive.
01:04:25
Speaker
Have it be something else. It doesn't make any... it doesn't There's no story reason to do it. And then streaming, they're just got to keep spending money. Oh, yeah, this is where creative people come and we don't interfere. And damn Art thread. me That's when you get that. Yes. No is a very powerful tool in the toolbox of storytelling.
01:04:45
Speaker
If you can't do something, if you're like something is preventing you, if the weather changes where you have to shoot something as as what happened here. And I don't think it was bad what happened that they then had to go to this compound.
01:04:57
Speaker
It kind of shrunk the scale of everything. But, you know, whatever. But the point is, is like limitations are where creativity is then supposed to thrive. And um it seemed like this show is much more concerned with throwing taxpayer dollars at the problem, kind an empty the spectacle if we put a visual effect in every shot.
01:05:17
Speaker
And so in that sense, it feels like a scam of some kind. It's like, wait, didn't you just jingle keys that we paid for? That's going to count? So I don't know. I guess it's like I feel more entitled to complaining about it since I did pay for this show to be made. Yeah.
01:05:34
Speaker
The orchids were egregious in my especially I was like, why would you even mention that you had 15 before? And then it turns out they like 23. Yeah. Just little things like that, where it's just the attention to detail was lacking in that. And so where else was it lacking? And like you said, there were just like weird shots where people were leaving the frame or this or that.
01:05:56
Speaker
And so, you know, there was a shot and Hugh, when Hugh dies, you, if you cut to him before he dies, you can already see the knife in his neck. And like little shit like that. It's like that's where you should have spent the money of like, hey, let's do it again. That's right. Season two, they had a shot that was highlighted on social media where a bus or something is traveling down the road, but the image had been reversed.
01:06:19
Speaker
So it's all little shit like that, where it's just like, you know, There is a version where it's like people sometimes joke that these shows that cost these shows and movies that cost hundreds of millions of dollars are like money laundering things. Like this is a good example of like, what were people doing? Cause a lot of people who make TV pay a lot of attention to this stuff.
01:06:40
Speaker
And these kind of like interlopers because Goldsman and Siobhan are not TV people. First and foremost, they kind of just come in and they're just like, we're used to doing things quickly and this is how we want to do it. And it's Star Trek. Who cares?
01:06:53
Speaker
Yeah. And this is what happens. And it's just, don't know. Again, i feel entitled because we paid for it. Yeah. Anyway, season one, at least, was a major success for CBS All Access.
01:07:05
Speaker
It was, to that point, the most watched original title for the streaming service. ah Precisely how many viewers the show's episodes received is a secret known only to ViacomCBS, as is according to, I think, a Variety article.
01:07:18
Speaker
CBS All Access technically launched in 2014. I don't know when all their original programming started up, but probably around about 2017 was when they really got into it with The Good Fight and Star Trek Discovery.
01:07:31
Speaker
um So this is 2020. and so at the time And then, of course, the tyler share the Taylor Sheridan shows started, and those are all the juggernauts on Paramount. If you want to talk about money laundering...
01:07:44
Speaker
yeah There we go. Well, that's just Paramount and Paramount subscribers paying Taylor Sheridan directly to use his property. yeah Yep. So that's it. Star Trek Picard season one. I think it was generally at the time a success.
01:07:59
Speaker
I hope in retrospect, the light on it is a little dimmer because season three was so great and there's been better Star Trek since. And anyway, Next week, we're going to take ah the ending of season one here ah where Picard dies, and I'm using it as inspiration for our next theme month, Kristen.
01:08:17
Speaker
We're calling April the Captain is Dead Month. Not the captain. Yes. And leading off with Tapestry from Star Trek The Next Generation.
01:08:28
Speaker
And don't forget, we'll have an all new animated spotlight on Lower Decks next week as well. We trekmerrykillpod.com on the web where you can see all of our standings. Trekmerrykpod on social media. And until next week, TMK out.
01:08:43
Speaker
Bye.