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TNG: "The Price" (s3e8) with TV critic Diana Keng
107 Plays2 days ago
HOLLYWOOD CRINGE FESTIVAL. Bryan continues Spring Flings Month with returning guest Diana Keng, a TV critic whose work you can read at Geek Girl Authority and Women at Warp. Did the nail the casting of a man who is supposed to sweep Deanna Troi off her feet?
The grades begin at (22:51).
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
Next on Trek, Mary Kill. Wormholes. Ferengi. Romance? Energize. Next time on Star Trek The Next Generation.
Mysterious Diplomat and Hidden Powers
00:00:10
Speaker
Passion fires up the Enterprise when Consul of Troy meets a mysterious diplomat.
00:00:15
Speaker
When I first saw you I felt as if I'd been waiting for you. But he's hiding special powers that could destroy critical negotiations. You're reading their emotional states and then using that to manipulate them. On Star Trek, The Next Generation.
00:00:39
Speaker
Trek, Marry, Kill.
00:00:43
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian.
Romantic Entanglements in Star Trek
00:00:46
Speaker
Hi, I'm Diana. Welcome to Check, Marry, Kill, a Star Trek podcast that's only stable on one side. It's Spring Fling Month, where we judge episodes that feature flings between main characters and guest stars.
Guest Host: TV Critic Diana Kang
00:00:58
Speaker
And joining me to discuss this week's offering, it's a returning guest. I'm very excited to have back TV critic Diana Kang, whose work can be read at Geek Girl Authority, Televixen, and Women at Warp. Diana, welcome back.
00:01:09
Speaker
Thank you so much. I don't have any Michelle Yeoh for you. so we're going have to do the other thing. We're going have to go and look at the men who would try to court our fair Star Trek women. Oh, gosh.
00:01:23
Speaker
they They can try. they i guess this is a question I should have put in the rundown, but I didn't. So I'm spring it on you. Have you ever experienced love at first sight? I would say it's lust. And i I feel honestly that in this episode we'll explore the the the fine line between the two.
00:01:41
Speaker
um Yeah. Yeah, maybe. I think that's what, you know, we get told it's love at first sight. But that's just the nice, like, ah smooth way of saying exactly that. It's lust. You've ever had an instant attraction? I'm sure we all have.
00:01:57
Speaker
i definitely have. to be To be fair, I have a very good friend who saw her future husband walk into a bar and she turned to her friend said, that's the man I'm going to marry.
00:02:08
Speaker
and no three and And you know what? Three years later, they were married. That's crazy. Yeah. Wow. that's That's great. First time I ever saw my wife, where I was like, who is this? It's amazing. And then a few years later, we started dating.
00:02:21
Speaker
And it turns out at the same time, the first time she saw me, she was like, oh, who's this? But, you know, you learn over time, you know, you have lustful feelings or you have this or that. So you kind just let things sit or you don't react to them right away. think we ping a lot on people who just – we ping a lot on people who just They you see them and there's an instant. But then following through on it is, you know, like you said, years later, after you were friends before you dated.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it's also fun. But now it's fun for me for my single friends. To just kind of like, here's some adventures. Not because I miss it, but just like, what's going on there?
00:03:01
Speaker
One of my longtime friends who's like experiencing this, they gave me a piece of advice back in college that was things that start fast, end fast. But as I said, this is TV. And so TV, you have to fall in love in an hour or you have to follow through on that attraction to the guest star.
Episode Analysis: 'The Price' and Romantic Negotiations
00:03:21
Speaker
Right. Yeah. ah So for this week's Spring Flings, we're doing The Price. It's the eighth episode of Star Trek The Next Generation's third season. ah premiered in syndication November 13th, 1989.
00:03:33
Speaker
Sweeps. Interesting. Written by Hannah Louise Shearer, directed by Robert Shearer. Completely different Shearers. Yeah. Pronounced exactly the same. Yeah. That's a very odd coincidence. Yeah.
00:03:48
Speaker
Yes. Memory Alpha describes this one, the Enterprise hosts negotiations for the only known stable wormhole. No, we're not talking about the Bajoran wormhole. It's nothing to do with Deep Space Nine, although it probably seeded that idea. Anyway, what Memory Alpha isn't telling us about this one is that Counselor Troi has a love at first sight moment with one of these negotiators, a human named Devanani Rall.
00:04:11
Speaker
He's negotiating on behalf of an unseen species called the Cressalians. against the Federation, the Caldonians, and the Ferengi to become administrators for this wormhole, which is near to the planet Barzan II.
00:04:23
Speaker
Raoul is basically a hired gun. If you follow sports at all, like baseball, he's like the Scott Boris of intergalactic agents.
Character Analysis: Devanani Rall
00:04:32
Speaker
He's negotiating on behalf of the Cressalians. He never loses.
00:04:35
Speaker
And it turns out that's because he's a quarter Betazoid. And that's why he and Troy have an instant connection. Of course, he's using his empathic abilities to get what he wants, slowly but surely undermining his opponent's positions by preying on their emotions.
00:04:47
Speaker
The Ferengi two have their own plan, poisoning the top Federation negotiator, causing Riker to have to step in. And it turns out that the wormhole isn't actually stable in that while it appears next to Barzan at regular intervals, the other side of it changes positions, something exiting, sometimes exiting to the gamma quadrant, sometimes the delta quadrant,
00:05:06
Speaker
So how's that for things that start fast and fast? um Exactly, yeah. It takes you in all the wrong directions. So before we started recording, or I usually like to ask my guests, you have any questions before we get started?
Casting Choices and Audience Perception
00:05:20
Speaker
And Diana asked a great question that I think now I'll bring up here in one of my like bullet points for what we talked about before the grades, and that is the importance of casting. so So hit me with your thought here about this this romance, this fling here.
00:05:37
Speaker
So it's interesting for the fact that the actor um struck a very familiar chord for me when the first time I saw it as well as reviewing it.
00:05:48
Speaker
And I had to just do a quick IMDb dive. And it turned out he was ah one of the primary cast of a show called We've Got It Made. From the 80s. And I watched every episode of the original run of it. And they had it then they had a a rebo ah kind of a reboot or return.
00:06:04
Speaker
And he would he didn't return with it. But that was where the familiarity for me was. And so the casting of him being that preppy, um 90s, smooth dealer.
00:06:21
Speaker
Because of you that casting. He came across really well. um And with a very open countenance, like something that you're trustworthy and and ah charismatic.
00:06:34
Speaker
So I thought the casting was good that way. The blue eyes. he has blue eyes. That's a cheat code for casting. um I heard this from... One of my favorite shows as a kid was Knight Rider.
00:06:45
Speaker
And so when they we started doing all the DVD releases, that was like one of the first ones ever bought. Hasselhoff's doing the commentary and he spilled the guts. He's like, if you had blue eyes, you get cast. That's the that's the trick.
00:06:58
Speaker
That's the cheat. So now I'm always aware of who has blue eyes. And here's dark hair, blue eyes, which is a great combination. i think that this was a completely miscast part.
00:07:08
Speaker
Devanani role. I think it stymies the intention of the episode. And this is not a criticism per se of the actor, Mike McCoy, who's been a lot of other things, probably most famously though. Well, I guess in Diana's case, she has, shit but I think he's in Seinfeld, right? He he's in two episodes. The second time is when he's like a serenity now and sanity later, you know, that's kind of his ah yeah famous thing. He's in a Silicon Valley. He's got like a lot of other small parts,
00:07:41
Speaker
But he does have that preppy frat boy yeah soccer player lacrosse look, something smooth and polished and like this guy killed a hooker and his parents got him off like that kind of vibe going for him.
00:07:54
Speaker
And here he's just like, who is this schmuck? I think it doesn't fit. And I'm just going to, the writer Hannah Louise Shearer was interviewed for a virtual TrekCon last year for the 7th Rule podcast. So, ah and and they brought up, they said what you said, the host of that, Siroc Lofton, and I cannot remember the name of the other host of that show.
00:08:16
Speaker
And I apologize. ah But they were complimenting him and she made like a sound. She goes, he was not my favorite. And she proceeded to say, especially when compared to Jonathan Frakes and Riker. And so she's saying when we first meet him, because it's in the teaser, that Troy literally is standing next to Riker when she meets this guy.
00:08:40
Speaker
And so it's like, especially next to Riker, this person has to overcome all that history. Jonathan Frakes genuine, genuine presence, all that stuff. And I think just when you cut from Jonathan Frake's strong face and the beard and then cut to kind of his skinny, scrawny face, it doesn't work.
00:09:01
Speaker
It's the music selling it and and and and Marina Sirtis that sells it. Well, no, but I think that's it, was that the fact that there was that draw for Deanna as portrayed by Marina Sirtis, that it proved that he was impressive in some way.
00:09:20
Speaker
Or at least that she was impressed by him. Yeah. but then and that There was that draw. So like it it spoke to the strength of that bond that that that he, that subconscious beta-zoid connection. And it spoke to that that she, like he completed her.
00:09:40
Speaker
Like that was really, you know, what was, there's, it's going to be in my, my favorite lines, but you know, what is rational when your toes curl? Yeah. And that honestly, right? And so I think that's what it was. Like, it didn't, he didn't, yeah, no, like side by side.
00:09:55
Speaker
No, no contest. Like it was, and I think that visually and um even just vibe wise, they were proving something in the fact that he was, he he exerted that much draw over her.
00:10:12
Speaker
And I think that's what the cut was. and What was ah funny to me watching it because I had my opinions about the casting before I heard Hannah Louise Shearer was also that in the Masterpiece Society, the the dude, the kind of pushover, the square that that Troy kind of has a fling with looks remarkably similar.
00:10:37
Speaker
to Devanani Raul. Like the casting is very similar. so she must have a type. That's all. And now I can't remember when they've visualized her father before, if there's a similarity there too. i can't remember.
00:10:49
Speaker
and That's deep. ah Yeah, but... Because I know they showed ah her dad one time. Was it a picture or maybe a dream? Was it night terrors? I can't remember. um But he's come up in something.
00:11:01
Speaker
Was it the drowning child? Maybe it was that. It had to have been. It had to have been. um So what was the other thing, though? we We wanted to talk about the romance angle of it. You said it was pretty cringe, right? Oh, it was is' beyond cringe. It was gag worthy. Like I, i had such a level of ick. I sat there just, just flinching.
00:11:21
Speaker
And, and, and a lot of it comes from maybe when it aired and I watched it there was this like, oh yeah, it's okay for a total stranger to fix my hair. Like, what the hell was that? I was don't touch her.
00:11:37
Speaker
Like, what are you doing? It was everything about it was, was like mild sexual assault. Like this is why I'm winning. Right. But I think the layers of it are that we're supposed to have the the telepathic or empathic connection, right?
00:11:53
Speaker
We are supposed to be wondering as an audience, what's going on here? Is there some sort of weird alien influence, something going on here? But I think what's missing is the oozing sexual vibes from the guy, because this is very similar to Space Seed.
00:12:10
Speaker
And where Khan puts the moves on Marlon MacGyver is he literally does the same thing with the hair and all that. And it's the same general idea that, yes, we go back and we look at a lot of old film and TV. We're like, oh, that's sexual assault.
00:12:25
Speaker
Like Pepe Le Pew, that stuff is like, there's a lot of that. going on but for the time what it was supposed to be doing was shortcutting how do you make these two people who are clearly attracted to each other hook up and it makes sense within the 45 minutes that we have to tell the story that scene is pretty common the way it's executed is is exactly that it gives you the ick it makes you wonder you notice though afterwards it's a little bit smoother but there is that it's a very rocky very questionable start for sure And there is also that stillness in Troy. As you said, it could have been like ah some force exerted over her, but she was, she, it was a freeze.
00:13:04
Speaker
It was um a freeze reaction. So you've got fight and you've got flight and then you've got freeze. Right. And, and the way she described it later when she's verbalizing her feelings for him and the fact she can't stop thinking about him. It's a, that she's actually frightened of the feeling she's having.
00:13:23
Speaker
Right. With so little history and so little introduction. And the fact that, you know, like, yeah, she was standing with Riker when she saw him, but he had a woman on his arm that he just sent away when he saw this connection with Troy. And you can't tell me that as a negotiator, he doesn't want an in with the counselor, whether or not there's any connection.
00:13:48
Speaker
Right. Right. I think the moment he realized there was someone in the upper levels of the enterprise that was a woman. um he He was going to make himself available to exploit that in.
00:14:04
Speaker
I have a chance of getting on the other side of my opponent here. She works for my opposition. Absolutely. That makes lot, that part was sort of downplayed because we get into this weird moral argument about, is it ethical to hide that you're an empath or that you can read people's feelings when you're negotiating?
00:14:21
Speaker
And, I don't know. It did feel that it it felt kind of flat. i actually liked the solution where Troy was like, yes, this was a conflict of interest and I think I've resolved it when she exposes him and she exposes him for a good reason because he's obviously, he and the Frank you're putting on this big production to kind of chain swing the bars in's decision.
00:14:42
Speaker
That's fine. But I kind of think her ethical argument is a little empty because I think the fact that she removes herself completely from it, it it kind of... ah belies what's going on here what when you're in a fling you're not thinking about the rest of the world you are exactly what you're saying like i'm afraid of how i'm thinking because you're like i want this so badly that you're throwing caution to the wind that you're just doing what feels good what feels right even if from the outside you're like you just bet this person what kind of space stds they have like you don't know anything about them
00:15:17
Speaker
But it feels right. it it feels So you go for it. And so the fact that she's able to then kind of have like the Star Trek, it's not just about me, the needs of the many, that kind of works. But at the same time, it like makes their argument a little, i don't know, academic when when we're maybe dealing with something that that does. shes She's kind of not like a a small person here. Like in Sub Rosa, Crusher is like, this is not Dr. Crusher.
00:15:46
Speaker
she's like a drug addict right now, but like true, there's something very kind of not weak, but just sort of like, Troy could be a little sharper here. We've seen her be sharper in season one, our, the ship full of jerks podcast. I like the point out that Troy was much more, was much colder, much more robotic. You know, she was kind of had more of a Spock aesthetic to her and she's kind of missing that level of intelligence here um because she's so dumb in love. And so, I don't know, or just, you know, dumb and lust.
00:16:14
Speaker
the The whole episode, though, was about her appetites. Yeah, great point. it starts with her chocolate need. Yeah. And he just basically basically became her compensation for the fact she couldn't have real chocolate.
00:16:29
Speaker
That's right. Also, you know, I've been in situations where my anxiety spiked because my mom was trying to get a hold of me and I went and I tried to satisfy my other interests to take my mind off of it. The episode starts targeting a series of communiques from from Lwaxana Troy.
00:16:44
Speaker
yeah and And the demands on her like she was
Behind the Scenes: Episode Title and Cut Scenes
00:16:48
Speaker
right. She was getting her buttons pushed. And she wants to be a woman for once. She doesn't want to be the ship's counselor. Yes, that was his in.
00:16:56
Speaker
Some production notes before we get into the grades. a Working title of this episode was a Price Far Above Rubies. Great change. Even though the price is pretty generic, that's not a good title. The revised final draft script includes several scenes that were not in the final episode, including a short session Troy has with O'Brien that deals with this girlfriend Mitzi.
00:17:18
Speaker
but Another scene Wesley telling the counselor about troubles he with his mother because she wouldn't let him stay overnight at a party at the holodeck and more background about the Cressilians. Probably all great cuts, but I think a party on the holodeck.
00:17:32
Speaker
that's like the nightlife quotient. That's like something that Lower Decks cornered completely, which is great, but it's like, it was suggested in Next Generation and it's a bit of a bummer that we, they cut any kind of reference to that.
00:17:45
Speaker
Maybe in some other episode, there's some reference to, to Crusher hanging out with people now that I, that I think about it. But anyway, we we never see him with his peers. we know Yeah. We never see him with his peers. All right. now In, in, in, um,
00:18:00
Speaker
In the season premiere of season three, we do. Okay. Crusher's asking Guinan how he's doing, how he's been doing while she's been gone and all that stuff. but that that's That's the one moment I think we ah Yeah, out of seven seasons. Yeah, exactly. So never isn't an understatement there. That's right.
00:18:17
Speaker
The episode was the first to firmly establish that the galaxy is divided into four quadrants. That's interesting. The crew of the USS Voyager later encounter Erador, Cole, and the Barzan Wormhole in the Star Trek Voyager third season episode, False Prophets. you remember that one?
00:18:32
Speaker
I don't, honestly. Yeah, don't either. Did they get the original cast members back for that? Great question. Let's look it up for a second. Yeah, for yeah It's worth looking it up.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. All right. so in So Leslie Jordan and Dan Shore... And it looks like dan Shore was at least in both of them. And it looks like they recast yeahp the other one. so yeah just I like continuity.
00:19:01
Speaker
it's i that That's pretty cool that they could bring him back in a ah in a different series in the same character. Well, and also the other one didn't have a lot to do. So they were able to cast him with like a funnier person who's more like more credits they could give more material to. So that all kind of worked out.
00:19:19
Speaker
This episode establishes counselor. Troy's love for chocolate. Hannah Louise Scheer says, I love chocolate. And it's just kind of a cliche that women do too. And they use it when they have, when their emotional needs aren't quite being met or they're having emotional issues is what she talked about in the
Troy's Character Development and Chocolate Metaphor
00:19:34
Speaker
podcast. So it doesn't come from anything specific to betazoids or thinking about things beyond she's a woman and she needs to feel like a woman right now.
00:19:42
Speaker
So chocolate time. ah This episode introduces us to the Barzans. um And of course, a Barzan, D-Nan, later appeared in Discovery and was was in, Commander Nan was in a few seasons anyway.
00:19:57
Speaker
But she definitely popped up in season five. And let's see, Michael Piller remarked, one of the best scripts we had. i think if you listen to that show and don't watch it, you can really have fun with it.
00:20:08
Speaker
I really thought it was a disappointing episode. i just didn't make it and was not a great show. As far as servicing the character of Troy, it was quite a wonderful vehicle and she was marvelous. ah kind of agree with that review i mean this is michael pillar season three of tng g where he was basically infallible like he took over on a and a real problem spot and like every idea had worked out perfectly uh prior to the airing of the episode there was much hype about the scene in which troy beds rawl michael pillar commented it was never meant to be outrageous television we got quite a few letters from outraged people before it aired but nobody wrote after it aired
00:20:44
Speaker
I listened very carefully to those complaints. I wonder what that can mean. So what they, the preview or something, or people just read that it's good. Counselor Troy during November sweeps is going to be, I feel like the commercial did have her like roll over top of them.
00:21:00
Speaker
And and out that was probably more than most most people wanted Star Trek to get into when it's not Shatner or whatever, doing this thing. Which is tough because Marina Surte's smoking hot.
00:21:13
Speaker
Yeah, but – I don't know what the complaints are. i think the people who people who write letters tend to be the ones that want them to look smoking hot but act perfectly pure. Hmm.
Director's Insights: Working with Marina Sirtis
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah. Director Robert Shearer recalled, the thing I remember most about that episode is working so closely with Marina because I hadn't really worked with her that extensively.
00:21:32
Speaker
There was a real human quality to her and the show. Well, she's, I maintain she's the second best actor in the cast. Yes. After Patrick Stewart, ah who just never quite got great material top to bottom. But anyway.
00:21:45
Speaker
so is your I'm sorry, just going to say that Surtis never had to chew the scenery the way he did either. Yeah. That's right. Right. Well, and he got to play a lot of different emotions and got to do a lot of different things and she didn't.
00:22:00
Speaker
um And the last note here before we get to the grades, Hannah Louise Shearer, the writer in that virtual TrekCon, said that the wormhole was nowhere in the first draft. excuse me It was an entirely different story set on the planet that that they were near, and they were going for the mining rights is what it was about.
00:22:17
Speaker
And it was Michael Piller who came up with the wormhole idea. She wrote it. like she Once she turned in the first draft, he's like, this isn't working. Let's put our space show in space and try that. And ah interestingly, because Michael Piller was...
00:22:30
Speaker
the people came up with Deep Space Nine, this idea of a of a working wormhole and administering passage like that became... She said that she gets no money for that.
00:22:42
Speaker
fresh shit To this day, she didn't see the dime of Deep Space Nine money.
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah. all
Scene Ratings Discussion
00:22:49
Speaker
right. Shall we get in? Oh, go ahead. yeah No, no. no that Let's go. Let's go for it. All right. Let's get into the grades. We'll start with great scenes. How many did you have? And kick us off, Diana.
00:22:59
Speaker
So... Arguably the the scene in the workout gear with Crusher and Deanna. i I like, um so visual aside, which which Lower Decks had such a good time with, um I like the two of them just doing something together that isn't necessarily 10 forward or a counseling session or in the med. I like them both out of their professional spaces.
00:23:32
Speaker
I like them having a recreational time together, something and they' they've obviously done before. They had a routine set down, and you know, sort of thing. And um being the two lead females in that cast that, you know, ran the whole series, you you don't get a lot of those scenes, I feel.
00:23:50
Speaker
like i mean, I could do a rewatch, but it it feels like just them just them talking and being friendly, not being the doctor, not being the counselor. Yeah, i I wrote raw, real, and it has a great punchline to it. It's a sex in the city scene in a lot of ways.
00:24:08
Speaker
Yeah, and I love that for for the show. It's it's unusual and um and suitable for the context. I totally agree. Yep. And you can tell Gates McFadden's having a lot of fun, too, because she's not having to do her normal Dr. Crusher stuff. yeah Yeah. um other My other best, sorry, can I do one more?
00:24:26
Speaker
You can do as many as you'd like. Please keep going. it was it was the ah was that Riker, ah that was the first thing you've misplayed bit with Rolf. When Raul approaches him in 10 forward, yes, trying to get under his skin. And and then just that brilliant smile yeah where he's like, you just don't get it. And yes and just it's almost a Ted Lasso moment.
00:24:50
Speaker
um But it was it was like, I would love if you made her happy, i would love that for her. And then just the stunned look when he leaves, just that look of on Raul's face is, what the hell just happened?
00:25:04
Speaker
Yeah. it Because it didn't play out the way he had predicted. this is ah and This is an episode in my Riker thought process of like, Frank's is really good in this episode.
00:25:17
Speaker
he's he has a He has different things to do here. But I think the worst shade of... Riker and therefore Frakes is whenever he's jealous. And the fact that that that's not even written into the part is what makes him so so great.
00:25:34
Speaker
It probably helps that he does not like this guy and is thinking of him as an opponent from the beginning. So knowing that he's gonna throw Troy out as a distraction probably is what shields him from being jealous. But we see Riker jealous about Troy all the time whenever she's involved in any other guy. This is the one time where that's not the case.
00:25:53
Speaker
But I think you'd point out the two greatest scenes of this episode. the The two that kind of, that really do make this not just like whatever. Like they they notice they're notable for for how great they are.
00:26:07
Speaker
um And the, but going back to Riker not being jealous, that comes down to casting too, because he's Riker and he's looking at Raul. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker
I'm just saying i want to know what happened. I want to know how they arrived at him. Now, directors have a choice in that, and obviously producers do. Was it a favor? Was it, you know, sometimes the studios push a guy, like, we want this person in here.
00:26:31
Speaker
We have him on a deal. We need to use him. He just doesn't fit. he'd Like, he just sticks out like a sore thumb of, like, this is not it. Even Devinani Raul does not conjure that face to the name. And and it just...
00:26:46
Speaker
I don't know. You know, to be different from Riker, a tall, slender, you know, perhaps Indian man is kind of what you kind of with Devanani Raul. That's what it kind of suggests.
00:26:57
Speaker
But who knows what reasons why they didn't go that way. um But it is very strange. That's all just saying. That was a great scene, though. just and then and that's And that's a guy scene that's quintessentially those two characters.
00:27:14
Speaker
it wasn't It wasn't a negotiation. It was it was a chest-pounding moment for Raul. by yeah yeah and and By the way, men, if you love a woman, that is what you're supposed to to say.
00:27:30
Speaker
When someone tries to draw out jealousy and just, I love this person, I want them to be happy. And if you make them happy, that's great because I love them and I want them to be happy.
00:27:41
Speaker
So Riker, ah just be being a feminist, I carried it on there. Being a good guy there. And to the point that he states that he doesn't think that Ra will follow through.
00:27:56
Speaker
oh yeah. So you've you heard the kids say washed, right? The so-and-so's washed. Right. you know, well, to get washed, you first have to be rinsed. So it's fun to say, you know, if a basketball player like Superman rinsed this, this guy in a fight or whatever.
00:28:14
Speaker
So Riker just rinses Raul here. He just absolutely calls him. He basically says the Star Trek version of like, you trash anyway. And ah she's so much better than you that you deserve, basically. Yeah. And and calls it. Right.
00:28:30
Speaker
I have a few more great scenes, but did you have any more? No, those are my two standouts. So I thought the scene in Picard's ah ready room with ah Riker, Mendoza, the Federation negotiator and Data, where they're both discussing the negotiations generally. And we're getting this idea of like, you know, Mendoza is impressed by Riker because he recognizes it's like a poker game. but But also data pointing out that we don't have enough information on this wormhole. There might be something more here that the probe that the bars and use isn't that sophisticated. So there's just like a ah lot of sci-fi Star Trek dynamics going on here. It's also laying some pipe for the plot because that's why Riker can take over from Mendoza, whatever.
00:29:14
Speaker
But again, I think great performances all around by everyone there. Pretty solidly written. i like Riker playing dumb poker. What's that? Some kind of game. i you know, and just Patrick Stewart's very game, you know, no, just everyone's very focused. i thought it was a great scene.
00:29:29
Speaker
I thought the scene where Data, Geordi, and the two Ferengi arrive on the other side of the wormhole and discover it's not the Gamma Quadrant, it's the Delta Quadrant. thought that was a great scene. um ah I thought that then an ensuing scene where Geordi just calls them idiots and then they take off.
00:29:47
Speaker
ah We get this realization that the Ferengi gasp as they realize they're stuck in the the Delta Quadrant. thought that was a great scene. um and And that's it. We got them all. So those were my other ones as well.
00:30:00
Speaker
They were operational scenes. They were operational scenes. Oh, oh yeah. That worked. That worked and um weren't overly heavy on. and they And they had the personalities of the people in there. said yeah, it works.
00:30:11
Speaker
Like, that's that's hitting on on all cylinders. I like spooky mysteries. I like the twist of one side to stable, the other is not. I thought that was great. A little mystery there.
00:30:22
Speaker
So, our best Trek tropes. Yeah. i I like the fact that Deanna is trying to convince the computer to give her something that's not nutritionally valuable.
00:30:35
Speaker
Like her trying to describe real chocolate and and the computer going, that's not good for you. yeah but Would you like to? Yes. Oh, and the fact that it gave her the option to override the nutritional controls.
00:30:50
Speaker
Yeah. And she didn't take it. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, this is too much work. yes yeah ah Someone rub my feet, please. just And then, and then the use of the, the different species,
00:31:04
Speaker
um i Because whenever you have that, like, you United Nations of of aliens um who aren't Federation partners, so everyone's kind of coming from their own corner, um and you get that the different value systems.
00:31:22
Speaker
And Raul was exploiting them, but they were represented. So the ah the aliens who were just like, we don't want to administer aliens.
00:31:34
Speaker
this crossing we're professors we yeah we're scholars Right. You know, and, and Raul pushing his people, his, his clients as being the peaceful ones. You know, the Federation's always picking a fight. Why don't, you know, you don't want to be in the middle of that.
00:31:52
Speaker
And I, I like that. reminds me of, and you know, my favorite episode is Tin Man. um but um Tal Elbram comments about the people, the the, the species he was working with who have a lovely three day ceremony for saying good morning.
00:32:06
Speaker
ah yeah like and And just having some really exotic, non-humanoid, not non-Earthling cultures represented. I like that. That was good. yeah Counselor Troi's chocolate obsession.
00:32:18
Speaker
Since it starts here, it might as well put it. ah The library computer. So Troi looks up Devanani Roll. I like that sometimes the Enterprise is able to tap in, like they have to...
00:32:30
Speaker
touch, get in contact over subspace with like a more generalized subspace. But also it seems like when they're in deep space, it's like somehow we can get information on Earth from 1995 because it's just stored in our library computer.
00:32:43
Speaker
So I kind of like the wackiness of it. But I also like it here because... This was, it's much more commonplace to do everything that Troy is doing with the computer now, but it wasn't in 1989.
00:32:55
Speaker
She's basically looking up his face, like looking up his social media accounts to learn more about him. And I thought that was cute. i thought it was a nice use of it. You know, looking at their Facebook, their Insta. um I like futuristic names.
00:33:07
Speaker
Devanani Rall is a great futuristic name. Bradward Boimler, Samantha Marthafern, Devanani Rall. ah Data needing a euphemism or described to him here.
00:33:20
Speaker
Picard shuts it down, which I liked when when data is wondering what a lemon is, because this wormhole could be a lemon. And Picard says later data, ah a friend of mine, we were on a trip.
00:33:31
Speaker
One of our other friends ah likes to give facts and insert facts at all times. And ah he played this clip for us where Picard is looking at the name of a ship. I think it's up the long ladder. And he goes, oh, the Mariposa. And then Data defines Mariposa. he said Picard just like listening. And then when he's done talking, Picard goes, thank you, Data.
00:33:53
Speaker
And he just continues on. So the rest of the weekend when our friend was interrupting with trivia, we were we would just say, thank you, Data. And this is a version of that. and I appreciated
Starfleet Diplomacy and Picard's Transparency
00:34:04
Speaker
it.
00:34:04
Speaker
so I like scientific transparency. Picard offering to share the findings of the Barzan wormhole probe with the Ferengi. Starfleet officers being good people. Geordi tries very hard to get the Ferengi to follow them back to the wormhole.
00:34:17
Speaker
The Ferengi have made it very clear that the Starfleet people should get fucked. They don't want anything to do with them. And yet Data and Geordi are like, bros, this wormhole is unstable. Come back. And they try repeatedly.
00:34:31
Speaker
um And then because this is Geordi is a command officer, he's like, well, we got to make a decision. We can't tractor them. We just have to go. um And then, of course, any references to our future Earth European alliance? Hey, that's something that it seems that Europe would stay together. It seems iffy now.
00:34:55
Speaker
So there's that. Where's Trek Troop? Oh, go ahead. Just one thing was the um the inheritance of of... So again, it goes back to to the diversity of ah species. So...
00:35:08
Speaker
so Raul inheriting his empathic ability. He was only what, one of five kids who ah was who manifested Venusoid empathy.
00:35:19
Speaker
So having like superpower, being genetic. and um And then playing on Ferengi just lack of foresight and ability to become really flustered in the moment. So when the, when the jig is up at the end and Deanna's like, they're, they're playing us there. This is, this is all rehearsed.
00:35:42
Speaker
And the guy's like, no, no, I was, I was, I was really, i was really tense. She goes, I, I sense no tension. I sense no, you know, he's like, I was really tense. I was going to, was going to shoot on it, fire, fire on the wormhole. And it's like, yeah. So anyways, I like, again, but seeing diverse, uh,
00:35:59
Speaker
cultures um or personalities brought out so yeah also just from a plot standpoint when she's looking him up on the library computer he comes in he interrupts she might have read about the but the betazoid heritage or gleaned that from the information it seems like if it was publicly available other people know that but anyway yeah just a nice little dynamic there worst trek tropes i have a couple yeah um i i don't love wormholes I'm a fan of wormholes.
00:36:29
Speaker
Yeah. It was, um oh, sorry. I'm just going through the categories. Bad special effects. so the trial I did not lie. I think the opening of that wormhole is so awful.
00:36:46
Speaker
So awful. And I think the way it zips, it zooms away from them, whooshes away, also terrible. And when they're inside and it's just streaking lights, that is just...
00:36:57
Speaker
um That's like future imperfect, the cloud distortion that they're in That's just like with ah with a glossy overlay. I still, I have it later in liquid grade, but you're right. Bad VFX, some bad VFX in this episode. Yeah, the effects are really, i was just like wow, someone just colored that in with a marker. Not the best.
00:37:14
Speaker
Yeah. yeah yeah i Is Pollarder worst? Oh, like, so data, when Jordi's like, well, we could be trapped here forever. He's like, but data, i'd be you'd have me to talk to. him
00:37:30
Speaker
It's, ah yeah, I'm not sure that silver lining is is a data thing. So just throwing it in there because no else. making data a joke, yeah. Between the two, yeah, the later data and then the, yeah, that's kind of, yeah, for sure.
00:37:45
Speaker
So anyway, so you go for it. Well, it's interesting because there's some version of that where it's like he becomes so important in the show. Sometimes it is nice to kind of background data a little bit. It's okay. But in doing it by diminishing him, they're they're best friends.
00:37:59
Speaker
Like Jordy wouldn't be. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um Anyway, ah I had actually three. I said two, but casting a square to play a cool guy where he talked to about it most of the time.
00:38:12
Speaker
But like half the time when they cut to a reaction of him, it looks like he's reacting to a different line than the one that's just been delivered. And it's like, is that the best one they had? He's just like staring very intently.
00:38:23
Speaker
you know, I think that's supposed to show that they have a connection and he's playing for the old TVs. Maybe that's my generous way. But we've seen this happen in Star Trek where it's in the Berman era in particular, where it's like this role calls for blank and they did not cast...
00:38:38
Speaker
to meet the character that's written. Sometimes they do for sure. But like, sometimes they don't. Uh, Jordy's visor picking up wormhole issues. So I, for some reason I had an issue with that, him looking out the shuttlecraft window and being able to see that there was something weird about the wormhole.
00:38:53
Speaker
um I think maybe it was just, it was so specific. Cause it's like, what are the powers of this? Why isn't everyone wearing visors that they're so amazing that they can see better than the sensors?
00:39:04
Speaker
Like it would make more sense if he did like a, Whoa, what was that? And then he was like, my visor, there's a big blast of my visor. and He looks at the sensors and he's like, Oh, well that's not good. Like that would make some sense, but I thought that was strange. And then I guess i'm going to put it as a worst track trope, even though I kind of,
00:39:20
Speaker
think that this episode does a really good job of riding the ship with these aliens by usually the worst structure of the Ferengi. So, I mean, this episode does actually a pretty, to your point about how the cultures are kind of represented broadly this one is not like this isn't about like the rules of acquisition this is just like the frangis being like this is a strategic opportunity why have we've been left out of it it's not about profit like the goal that these is not latinum so it's like a rough version you know the betazoids can't read frangy we find out later on so like they're still working things out this this wasn't about them greed this is about strength so i appreciated that but they're also i don't know they're just annoying like They're so annoying. and it just it is it it would It takes until Cork before Ferengi's, okay, I can take them sometimes.
00:40:12
Speaker
And he's still a long ways away before we get Cork. The sack of gold press latinum. but they It's just gold. It's not even latinum. Yeah, exactly. guess yeah The sack of currency.
00:40:24
Speaker
They just stick on the table and think, okay, and we won. We obviously outbid everybody. It was just like, yeah, it was so annoying. They were clowns and they were ah clowns. yeah Yeah, they were clowns and they ah were kind of also.
00:40:41
Speaker
i mean, it's early days of establishing Ferengi, even third season. but this is like them course correcting with the Ferengi and it's a good step in the direction for sure, but yeah still pretty annoying.
00:40:54
Speaker
And was I feel like I saw one of them talking to a clothed human woman in the 10-4. Yes, he's showing how big his genitalia is. Yeah, i yeah, yeah.
00:41:04
Speaker
The panammon. He hits on two of them, right, because human females. Yes, exactly. Yeah, they're still working some things out. Sure. oh Most cosplayable character or moment? I'm really interested to hear what you have to say.
00:41:17
Speaker
Well, yeah. like any of the people at the table, I thought, I actually have a Deanna Troy dress. and Which one? The blue one? The purple one, actually. It's the purple one. Okay. But, um, yeah, no, the fact that she actually wore two different counselor dress uniforms, I thought was, uh, it was cool.
00:41:39
Speaker
And at least this was the good Deanna hair season too. Oh, great Tiana Harris season. She is a beautiful woman. There's a cast photo of, I think I've said this before, cast photo of all them at LeVar Burton's wedding in the 90s. And they are all, they are a hot cast.
00:41:54
Speaker
yeah They look really good. She's really hot. I mean, the obvious answer for most people was probably Crusher and Troy's workout clothes, but Shaxx and Ransom wear these in Lower Decks in the Moopsie episode, so it's already been done.
00:42:07
Speaker
I like what you said about the aliens. I think the the one that stood out to me, though, was Laor the Kaldonian. that was That was really interesting. I like the actor, the like great characterization, really made ah an impression real quick.
00:42:21
Speaker
The Caldonians, I believe that the ah one of them becomes President of Earth. We find that on Paradise Lost and DS9. I think that's President of Earth's Caldonians.
00:42:32
Speaker
And the Barza accessories are like the, it's the breathing apparatus, I think. ah More sophisticated in the past. that Discovery. yeah yeah ah Maybe the guy they got simplified yeah before, but yeah, Nan was one of my, one of those characters that I enjoyed when she, and ah her, her mirror universe. I know.
00:42:55
Speaker
I don't think you are a fan of mirror universe, but she, her mirror universe version was fun. Yeah. ah Now it's time for the line must be drawn. here Great lines. I have a few. Yeah. Who needs rational when your toes curl?
00:43:09
Speaker
but um that that was That stood. like Again, you know when i when I preview these for these podcasts for you, I'm always listening for Great Lines. And one of the sites I used to write for had us purposely pull good lines.
00:43:23
Speaker
And they were they had their own little webpage and they attracted traffic and stuff like that. um And so, yeah, it was it's my my ears always open. That one just pinged right across the board. um I also liked Here's to the Last Mile.
00:43:38
Speaker
which was Which is Riker and Rall. yeah it's a great It's like... um Today they wouldn't waste... I say waste, but they would make sure that line has some sort of other purpose.
00:43:51
Speaker
But I kind of like... You know i mean like it would have some sort of resonance with Riker, especially in these 10 episode seasons. But I really like it here because it encapsulates his whole character about how much he's willing to risk and why.
00:44:07
Speaker
ah ra And it gives him a point of view. ah he is a full fully fledged person. He's not just a foil. you know So I think that's really that's really smart to pick that out. um I just kind of dismissed it because of how who was delivering it.
00:44:22
Speaker
ah well right is it oh right your to he He bookends it for sure. Yeah. He gets the final bit. He gets the final bit. Here's the last month. But yeah, the the whole setup for it yeah was Raul talking about being a marathon runner and and having enough, ah yeah be again, being what willing to risk right at the end, like right up to the end, um having that energy to go.
00:44:43
Speaker
but But Riker... caps it with the you know he after he's told Raul she's the best thing that could ever happen to you and you're not and you're not even gonna take it up and then it's like here's the last smile and he's talking about the relationship any others those are the two that stood out and oh you know what and but you'd you'd you'd have me to talk to Jordi it's a bad trope but it's a cute line Picard's line to Damon Goss.
00:45:13
Speaker
that's a perfectly fair assessment i do that all the time ah picard's line to damon gos damon due to the delicate nature of these negotiations all parties have agreed that one representative will suffice now i will be happy to provide your consoles with accommodations and you may have my chair I just love, you know, Picard's the diplomat, right? And here is Patrick Stewart being Picard as polite as possible.
00:45:39
Speaker
The Ferengi have assumed a great offense and he's squashing it completely. And he's as annoyed with the Ferengi as I am He's like looking looking at the worst Trek trope right in the face. And he's like, I'm going to be Captain Picard despite this.
00:45:52
Speaker
um I like Riker playing dumb poker. Is that a game of some sort? thought that was great. um wait You have the perfect line, the line of the episode, but I do like this first exchange in their scene.
00:46:06
Speaker
You're unusually limber this morning. I'll say. oh my God. really This whole scene is like sex in the city, but also like enlightening the censors because this is in syndication. It's like this is playing in Alabama. What can we get away with?
00:46:21
Speaker
Yeah. no, that was that was a really good line. um you know so But Sirtis's description of real chocolate you know bordered on an R rating.
00:46:34
Speaker
It's not as pornographic as the game. The the game is where it is. This is like positively tamed by that standard. um So you already hinted at it, and maybe I'll just play the clip, but Riker's line.
00:46:48
Speaker
you know, I feel responsible for you in a way. Related.
00:46:55
Speaker
Deanna.
00:46:58
Speaker
We both love Deanna. Oh, in different ways, of course. I will remove that burden of responsibility right now. My relationship with Deanna stands very well, on its own, without any help from you. Of course it does. Of course it does. It's just that... Well... She's a remarkable woman.
00:47:19
Speaker
Brilliant, lovely, very passionate. And she could have been yours, Will, but you just didn't do enough to keep her.
00:47:31
Speaker
And now, well, I'm here, and I'm going to take her too.
00:47:43
Speaker
It's the first bad play seen you make. If you can bring happiness into Deanna's life, nothing would please me more. You know you're really not such a bad sword, Raul?
00:47:55
Speaker
Except you don't have any values, beyond the value of today's bid, that is. Deanna is just the woman to bring some meaning to your sorry existence, if you're smart enough to take it.
00:48:09
Speaker
I doubt that you are.
00:48:13
Speaker
to the last mile.
00:48:17
Speaker
frakes is so fucking good in this moment it's just it sells everything and it's like it's great i mean it's really remarkable you think about the end of this season as the best of both worlds right and that episode is all about riker and you really think about it as like does michael pillar see himself as riker in some way and it's like is fras the star the show in some version because there was that idea of like you know Picard is Gene Roddenberry's super ego and and, you know, and Riker is his ego and then Crusher is his
00:48:52
Speaker
You know, it's like there's like Gene Roddenberry and these characters. I just think it's really interesting that this Riker is is actually very mature and he's right on the line of kind of a cad, but also like getting more mature and all that stuff.
00:49:06
Speaker
It kind of falters as the show goes on because i think the writers get younger. um But it's just really, it's really interesting There's just something really complicated and interesting about all this that i really appreciated.
00:49:18
Speaker
Frakes' smile, just as he delivers that line, it's this, it's not the charming smile. it it's It's the gotcha. Yes. And it's it's practically ah predatory.
00:49:32
Speaker
Yes. And I love that moment. and and And again, you take those big blue eyes on Raul and he just looks like something, what? Yeah. Yeah, it was.
00:49:43
Speaker
Yeah, it was. He's doing kind of the smile when he's kidnapped Picard back from the Borg. You know, he's just like, I got you. i yeah trying um And then my last bit was Damon Goss's. Well, I was tense.
00:49:57
Speaker
I was ready to blow up. I strongly protest. And then Picard saying screen off.
00:50:05
Speaker
Would this be a fun hollow novel to play out? I wrote, it depends. Yes, it does. If I would love to play out the the wormhole negotiations, I would burn the hollow novel about the romance.
00:50:19
Speaker
Just everything about the raw. Like if I'm raw and I have to hit on Troy, don't know. yeah, you go ahead and you do that. I'll give counselor Troy a foot massage. I don't have a problem with that.
00:50:31
Speaker
I was ah long seen a scene of shot of just her foot. i know whenever she wears that kind of just that white cloth, cause she does it in other episodes. I'm like, okay, gotta get a glass of water here.
00:50:45
Speaker
um Yeah. But I, I agree with you. i think the, but if you're Geordi in this episode, let's say, you know um you know, you're doing, you're investigating the wormhole. That's another storyline to do. If you're playing the game, it's probably what Boimler would do if he was playing this.
00:51:00
Speaker
So, That's what any of the lower deckers would do. Like we have to exploit the wormhole. Yes. I think, I think Rutherford would be through the wormhole maybe because, you know, he idolizes Geordi, but it was, but Boimler, I would, I think he tried to be Riker.
00:51:16
Speaker
Oh, that's true. That's fine. Yeah. i would This might be a fun thing to be actually just to redo as like what roles with the lower deckers play. Yeah. Like Mariner would, and Boimler would probably be vying for Picard or for Riker.
00:51:30
Speaker
So, Yeah. trying to be out fun Or Mariner would probably just play role. I don't know. she but She would negotiate and hit on Troy and I think she'd have fun both ways. Yeah. that ah She'd give a good but foot massage.
00:51:45
Speaker
The Anton Crittian award for best performance. I, I like Troy. It was, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a showcase for Sirtis. Despite the fact she, she was kind of the kicked puppy in the end, but it's.
00:52:02
Speaker
Oh, you saw i thought, I thought. and know At the end, ah at the end, she
Troy's Character Growth and Conflict Resolution
00:52:06
Speaker
asserted herself. She was a kicked puppy all the way through. Like she, was she was being acted upon. And even by. Yeah. He was. Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:13
Speaker
yeah yeah Yeah. No, it's and she was reactive through the whole thing until she asserted the, and here's me writing the conflict of interest. And, and so, and yeah. I i think this is good. I much rather see her doing stuff like this instead of just being sexually assaulted or whatever, like, you know, or losing her telepathic abilities and everyone on the cruise just telling her to get over it.
00:52:39
Speaker
You know, like that kind of stuff. Yeah. But I have to give an honorable mention to Jonathan Frakes because yeah i it's weird that any episode about Troy is somehow about Riker. That seems like not fair. It's not until like Face of the Enemy, I think, or Disaster, where it's like it's a Troy episode that doesn't have Riker involved in some significant way. um She definitely wins, but I just have to highlight that I thought he was great in this one, too.
00:53:06
Speaker
um Everyone, all of our main cast were great. They usually are. ah Of the guest stars, um i the Barzan representative i yes had a very consistent... She was totally believable. Yeah. um everything she did All the lines she delivered. she was no i you know i and she gets For someone who was in one episode, ah species that was seen one time, um yeah. and then and And all the emotions were...
00:53:36
Speaker
well, well explored. All right. So the Shatner, you're going to be surprised by my answer, but what's yours? Remind me again the definition of the Shatner Award. So Shatner isn't always bad.
00:53:48
Speaker
it it can be, but it really mainly means going for it because William Shatner would have two takes maybe to be like, okay, you've been possessed. Act. to So it's like Shatner being like, I'm Captain Kirk.
00:54:02
Speaker
You know, whatever. it's just someone having to go for it. Sometimes I will be like, ah that was just bad. And that's it. You can say that, but it doesn't have to be. ah I'm going to go with Rall on this one, on McCoy, because he um he gave He elicited visceral reactions from me. And part of it was, and and and my husband was like, is this the one you don't watch? I'm like, no, that's violations. I will never watch that episode again. But this one's hitting all of the icks. As I said, i just sat there and convulsed at times. And yeah, and it takes a a type of performance to get me to react like that.
00:54:43
Speaker
And it was beyond the delivery of the lines or just the simple actions that the director would have given him. It was, it was an overall ooze and, and just squidginess to the whole character.
00:54:59
Speaker
See, I didn't want to be mean. Cause I'm like, yeah, it's gotta be him. It's gotta be that performance. And I think it's just the casting, but it in case you were like, Brian, you're being too mean. I did have a backup and that's the score.
00:55:10
Speaker
yeah that The score actually has to balance what the lack of chemistry between the two of them creates, the void. So the score has to be like, they are actually are into each other, believe it or not.
00:55:21
Speaker
And like that first cut to his his face with his mouth open. i also think an an actor with his mouth open is very unsexy. they They don't look very...
00:55:33
Speaker
suave and so then the music has to hit it and the music is very synthy 80s so it's just ridiculous it's really going for it and i just thought yeah i got have add there to the the two yeah the two go together that was uh yeah shoot to thrill most exciting image or sequence well certainly not the wormhole right yeah
00:55:56
Speaker
yeah Great job, though, by the remaster team for matching the bad visual effects. Like that was an opportunity where they could have been like, let's spruce this up. And they didn't do that.
00:56:08
Speaker
They were like, stay they true.
00:56:12
Speaker
um For exciting images or sequences. It doesn't have to have to be action packed, does it? It does not. No, no, no, no, no. So I mean, it could be the foot massage if you find that exciting. Some people have a foot thing.
00:56:28
Speaker
yeah ah It would have been one of the scenes where there I think it was it was the scene where she says, I haven't been able to stop thinking of you all day. And they just go for it. yeah Yeah. Yeah. It was just it was like it was it was the tipping point for that. That was a great that was a well written scene. Like, again, Michael Piller is completely right. He's like, if you listen to it, but I think it's more like if you just read it and because when I hear his voice, I'm like, that is not a sexy voice. But she's completely right where she she's kind of like back and forth with him in that moment. I thought that was great. And she's she's giving it all the life.
00:57:03
Speaker
I think that's a great call. I do i just got to say, though, as much as we've been crapping on the visual effects, I actually think all the space shots of the shuttles being next to each other and the way the camera follows them, none of the wormhole. I'm just talking about the shuttles and in space.
00:57:19
Speaker
I'm like, that felt very real to me, almost like I could see them in their windows. Yeah. the But the shots of Geordi and Data sitting in the shuttle looked like they were in their neighbor's cardboard box.
00:57:33
Speaker
Oh, for sure. But that's why I love Star Trek. I love it. I love that shuttlecraft too. I'm like, no person would reasonably get into a shuttle like that. Yeah. ah but I sat there and i I was like, I don't remember them looking so cramped in there. Like it looks, it, it looks like one those echo cars where you can only, you can't put yeah yeah luggage.
00:57:54
Speaker
It was so tiny and it was just like those square windows. It's just a shuttle designed for the square for the TV box. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's not even the one from season two, the type two or whatever shuttle where Q kidnaps Picard or Picard's on the shuttle. And you know that's a bigger shuttle. The tiny one that we usually only see one person in. Was that that the captain's yacht or was just a basic shuttle?
00:58:18
Speaker
it was It was just a regular shuttle craft. It wasn't his yacht. We don't see the captain's yacht until Insurrection. This one going through ah this one goes yeah this one going through the wormhole, I felt like they were just like they were in a drone, like they were in a two-seater drone. Yes.
00:58:35
Speaker
And what I just liked, though, was the model work on that. that Those shuttles in the space field, they actually looked very convincing. And maybe that was why the actual visual effects of the wormhole did not look very convincing. Yeah.
00:58:49
Speaker
you did You did highlight, though, a really, it's a crucial scene, and I feel like it's a scene that takes it from ick to interesting, is that scene at the replicator where they they're going to be very late for dinner because they ain't eating.
00:59:03
Speaker
What part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? um Interpersonal relations? Yeah. I put something about the Barzan wormhole specifics.
00:59:15
Speaker
Oh, if you want to be technical, sure. Yeah. Because I don't know how much of the diplomacy gets taught at the academy if you're just like an undergrad, which to me is the spirit of the question. But maybe other people are like, well, you could take it like if your degree is in diplomacy. But it's like, is that part of the basic curriculum? Is that i is that a core curriculum?
00:59:35
Speaker
Yeah. they've but They've also got to got have some like HR rules about – He's done starflee ah she's not He's not under chain of command. This is like a perfectly... Conflict of interest rules.
00:59:49
Speaker
Because, you know... Well, at the time, the Federation negotiating team was headed up by Mendoza. The Enterprise was merely... It's like sleeping with someone at the convention center, but not part of the convention.
01:00:02
Speaker
So... But that is interesting. they They could also ah discuss, um again, on wormholes, that you need to send more than one drug like one um drone through like barzan sent one and said this is where it takes you and the way they described the barzans were like we have nothing our planet is dirt we threw a tin can through and it seemed like the the string seemed to indicate it went to the gamma quadrant right
01:00:37
Speaker
And I also wonder why, I mean, it's it's dramatic. That's why they did it this way. But if you just use the Star Trek technology, they could have sent a probe through, an unmanned probe, an unmanned shuttle through yeah to get the same readings to come back and it would have been fine.
01:00:54
Speaker
but But the Ferengi would have still insisted on going. so For sure. um How about Poker? They should be teaching. Should they be teaching? but You know, we should put that as a best trick trope poker. That's it. It's a pivotal part of the episode.
01:01:10
Speaker
I guess when Picard says Riker puts on master class of poker every week or on the enterprise, i'm like, is it master? I don't know. But anyway, ah I mean, data's there. That's cheating. yeah yeah he could also be there. like Picard might also be like selling his number one to those. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah.
01:01:31
Speaker
but they teach Yeah, they'll probably teach poker. I mean, if Lower Decks tells us anything, everything that happens in Star Trek is in pop culture in the public domain. So everyone knows everything. So that makes sense. Could this episode have been hornier?
01:01:42
Speaker
And would that have made it better, Diana? they They could not have made it hornier in 1990s network television. that was that was I think that was the like what they showed. and And the reason for the outrage of after the commercials aired was, I think, that that that's about a second. My children watch this show. How dare a woman be on a man's lap?
01:02:06
Speaker
Wait until your kids you are hearing them swear Star Trek. You're right about it couldn't have been hornier. Yeah. yeah And like like you said, they had to slip in innuendo to get past those sensors that would have been watching for a broadcast um and full pause.
01:02:28
Speaker
I think it could have been hornier just with better casting. If you had cast a more handsome guy that made it hard. He's not ah an unattractive guy. Let me actually be very clear. If you cast a smoldering hunk who exuded sex, that would have caused him to cut stuff to be like, we don't need to see them doing any more than that. That's enough. We're going to have to agree to to disagree, but I think the casting for Raul is the fact that he's a fraud.
01:02:57
Speaker
he he is like He is that vanilla guy who has managed to work himself into a position of power and then used his ah inherited ability to ace up the sleeve.
01:03:15
Speaker
um He's not actually a good negotiator except that he knows what they're feeling. I'm with Hannah Louise Shearer. It's Deanna Troy. She could have any man she wants, and it's him, and it's like next to Riker, literally next to Riker, and there's nothing in his dialogue that's expressly charming, so now we're left with the...
01:03:39
Speaker
I'm just saying we know that there are people who get cast in shows that they their screen presence exudes a certain energy. That is like very well known. like we watch all these shows.
01:03:50
Speaker
People have a type. They fit a whatever. I wonder if they like... it intentionally handicapped the degree of sexual smoldering that the character could provide because they're like, Marina Surness is very attractive. We have them doing these very sexy scenes. If the guy is very attractive, it might cause the the comparison might cause them people to go insane.
01:04:10
Speaker
And we don't want to do that. So that's the only reason I can say if you change that, but none of the, none of what was written that might've made it better. But to your point, It might have been too sexy for 1989 to put two tens together.
01:04:25
Speaker
so they put her with the seven. It's like that'll bounce it out with blue eyes, a seven with blue eyes and that'll bounce it out. and And a lot of still shots of, you know, like stunned reactions. That's right.
01:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, it was. And and and that musical score. That was really good. That's right. That'll sell the rest of it. right. So check, marry or kill the price. Kill. Kill, all right. i I'm going to kill on this one.
01:04:52
Speaker
Yeah. I will join you. i I think the two scenes, though, that we pointed out that you pointed out as, I think, ah the best scenes the episode were enough for me to, if you had said Trek, I would have gone with you. But this is one where you can watch and and and forget about it, I
Final Reflections and Disturbing Scenes
01:05:06
Speaker
think.
01:05:06
Speaker
Or not watch at all. Well, episodes that leave a bad taste in my mouth. like just like i that the the hip Him with his hands in her hair, I can't i can't unsee that anymore. like It's burnt with my retina. That's...
01:05:19
Speaker
Again, a suave actor might have been able to pull that off in a way that was like, but he's doing it. But it it was again, it was violating and it was just, oh, good yeah, gross. is yeah But um yeah, and but I mean, I like the um from the production view. I like the fact that, you know, the quadrant thing, I didn't realize that was established in here. And I liked those sort of aspects. So as a not a cornerstone, but as a building block for Trekverse.
01:05:47
Speaker
ah solid. um and A surprisingly important episode. Yeah, and the bars and pieces were fun. And um yeah, and do we get more chrysalians?
01:05:58
Speaker
and ah and and Are they ever referenced again is a great question. I don't believe they are. They're only referenced in the price. yeah Okay, yeah. um Space Faring, yeah. I'm wondering if, did Lower Decks ever mention Devanani Roll again?
01:06:13
Speaker
No. Yeah, that would be something they would dig dig down for, wouldn't they? Yeah, yeah i i I also was left with the sense that um they they they were displeased. Like he said, oh, you know, I've done a lot of good things for them over the years, thinking that goodwill, but it was just like, exactly how peaceful are these people? what how did they How did they enforce that peace?
01:06:38
Speaker
And are they actually the mob? or or We never get that sense. I mean, in 1980s television, I think it's you have to kind of just take it for what it is. But I think we both know if they did a version of that today, there would be some sort of undertone going on there. Like, I think we have to take him at his word. We're like, we don't care about what other people do. We're not like interested in all that, um you know, all that jazz that's going on the rest of the galaxy.
01:07:06
Speaker
He's described in the script. I have to point this out to my point about the casting. Raul was, quote, a well-dressed, strikingly attractive man with a disarming smile.
01:07:18
Speaker
And in no way do I feel that that the casting honors that. No, no. And neither did the wardrobe. It was awful. No. and There was a lot of like shoulder pads and weird.
01:07:30
Speaker
I see here that his, his, ah one of his suits is worn in the Star Trek Voyager fifth season episode. Someone to watch over me. Another episode about seven to nine trying to get late.
01:07:42
Speaker
So. Which I thought was great. It's like one of my favorite Voyager episodes. Yeah. um all right diana it's been a pleasure as always but where can people find you away from this podcast um yeah my writing can be found at geek girl authority and uh women at warp is actually coming to the end of their 10-year mission and so yeah my pieces are still there but um i don't believe there's anything i'm not commissioned for anything new there but uh be sure to tune into them and And take a read of the blog.
01:08:13
Speaker
um As well as, ah and and the television. I have several pieces um in the archives right now. But yeah, the Geek Girl Authority is definitely the place to find me. Fantastic. Next week, we're going to continue our spring flings.
01:08:28
Speaker
Dr. Crusher falls in love with the diplomat who might be harboring some kind of parasite in his belly. It's the host from The Next Generation. And I'll be joined by Jesse from Crusher Convo podcast. I love that episode.
01:08:40
Speaker
It's been great having you again, Diana. And thanks so much for listening. We're TrekMerryKpod on social media, trekmerrykillpod.com on the web. We can see all of our Treks, Marys, and Kills. So until next time, TMK out.
01:08:51
Speaker
Thank you.