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LD: "Reflections" & "Hear All, Trust Nothing" (s3e5-6) with Katie Hampton
0 Playsin 8 minutes
NINE OWN SELF. This month's animated spotlight features a pair of episodes that go to great lengths to give our cartoon characters some badly needed introspection. Rutherford learns about his bad boy former self and Tendi is pressed to assert the woman she wants to be over her culture's demands. Oh, and there's plenty of nostalgia for Bryan with a trip to Deep Space Nine. But will he and Katie Hampton from the Napping Through Happy Hour Podcast give these episodes TREKs, MARRYs, or KILLs?
The grades begin at (26:44).
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Concept
00:00:00
Speaker
This month on Trek, Merry, Kill Deep Space Nine and other things Energize
00:00:29
Speaker
Just keep circling.
00:00:39
Speaker
Trek, marry, kill. Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Katie. Welcome to Trek, marry, kill, a Star Trek podcast where we get trapped in a mind space and we argue with ourselves to decide...
00:00:56
Speaker
If an episode is good, great, or watch it once and forget about it. Right? That's about basically what we do. Essentially what that is. Yeah. This is kind of like a mental mindscape right here.
00:01:07
Speaker
That's all right. No white space. Just two white people. Which is white enough as is. That's right. White people talking Star Trek. That's never happened before. Not a single episode.
Understanding 'Kill' in 'Trek, Marry, Kill'
00:01:21
Speaker
As ah the blowback or the ah input from the Section 31 episode that we did has come in, ah people are very sensitive about the word kill, which is funny because at least in the case of Section 31, that whole thing was about killing people to solve the problem. ah so But I think Star Trek fans, they think you can't be too negative. And then i I've listened to other reviews and read reviews. you And they're basically saying what a kill is, which is like, watch it all you have to do is watch it once or watch it once and you can forget about it.
00:01:52
Speaker
It's harmless. It's infect it's ineffectual. Very rarely is there like a kill where we're like, that nobody should watch that. like i Maybe Spock's brain was like the only one and the Paradise Syndrome or like the two where it's like,
00:02:05
Speaker
You have to watch those. And liaisons for the next generation, very strongly opposed to anyone ever watching that episode. Usually when we say kill, we just mean like no one's telling you not to watch it.
00:02:18
Speaker
But like in the canon of Star Trek, that's one that people can watch once and forget about it. It doesn't. ah wow mean i'm I'm really, I'm really curious about
Addressing Toxic Fandom
00:02:28
Speaker
this blowback. I kind of want to read some comments. It's not that bad. It's just that I think the problem is is that people were so strongly, um people are are, their hackles are raised because there's so many of these like,
00:02:43
Speaker
mushroom shaped men who have YouTube channels. Oh boy. And they so scream how much they hate something and the people involved and they hate it. And like, it's very personal and and emotional, which I can understand, but it's also like they're then everyone else who has YouTube channels,
00:02:59
Speaker
then that layer is like, that is not us. That does not reflect our values. And these people are mean and toxic, which is true. But I think there is something of like, you could actually, it is possible for something to be made so badly that people just don't like it.
00:03:14
Speaker
And focusing on the worst ah critics of that, who are always negative about everything. Sure. That's what I'm noticing is that a lot of people decided to only focus on that and to like sidestep their own dislike of the thing.
00:03:29
Speaker
they They're like, I didn't like it either, but look over here. These people are doing it the wrong way. and so when we get us wrapped into like kill, then i I do try all the time to like
Unexpected Meltdown in Lower Decks
00:03:42
Speaker
separate us. I'm like, we are not big round mushroom men. No, about star it's pretty broken down. No, it's pretty broken down. And like, he you've even gotten me to to kill a couple of Lower Decks episodes, which I know you have worked hard. You are the Wesley Sipes crying while holding a gun meme for every kill, for any kill opportunity. You're like, I can't. I'm going to scoop this the spider that bit my child. I'm going scoop it and I'm to let it outside.
00:04:09
Speaker
I would 100% do that. That's part of it. I'm like, that spider bit my child. It will now see hell. You know, it's up to your kid to Peter Parker powers. So,
00:04:21
Speaker
okay ah you look at your child. Are you Spider-Man-ing right now? If you're not, I'm going to just release this.
00:04:33
Speaker
A long detour from our animated spotlight discussion, but hey, a nice nice little riff we don't usually riff. so Hey, yeah, we should riff more because we're talking about animation and that's all the things that they do and in Lower Decks is referential and like fun animation
Review of 'Reflections' Episode
00:04:49
Speaker
stuff. so This month continues that thought of, oh, the pandemic.
00:04:55
Speaker
This is them deep into the pandemic. And there is a lot of like improv stage first ri first top of... First reaction jokes in this, in the two episodes we're discuss. The first of which is Reflections. It's the fifth episode of Lower Decks third season. It premiered on Paramount Plus September 22nd, 2022.
00:05:14
Speaker
Written by Mike McMahon, directed by Michael McMullen. Hmm. lot of alliteration going on here. Yeah. Especially with the 22 and the 22. right. Paramount Plus 22, 2022. Mike
00:05:32
Speaker
Mariner and Boimler work the Starfleet recruitment booth at an alien job fair. Meanwhile, Rutherford challenges himself. But Memory Alpha isn't telling us, because actually the Mariner and Boimler storyline, there's really, that is what happens. And then Mariner is tasked with basically adhering to the mission.
00:05:50
Speaker
Otherwise, Ransom's going to reassign her to Starbase 80. Oh, Oh, no!
00:05:57
Speaker
She had big reaction to that. That's right. So then she proceeds to try to like play it straight and recruit people and answer all those silly questions, but also gets ribbing from all the other booths nearby, including the Archaeologists Guild.
00:06:11
Speaker
The independent Archaeologists Guild. ran by a sassy British woman who may or may not have inspired ah the character in Indiana Jones. ah No, that there's too much of a development time, but she's a smarmy, smarmy British archaeologist. That is a VB Waller Bridges character yup in Dial of Destiny. Anyway.
00:06:30
Speaker
And, and basically Mariner holds form as much as she can. And it
Rutherford's Mindscape Battle
00:06:36
Speaker
winds up being Boimler who loses his shit and trashes all the booths. Cause he can't take the harassment,
00:06:42
Speaker
of all these these mouth breathers who don't understand Starfleet's mission. I gotta say, i every time I watch this episode, I'm like, oh, this is probably going to be a Mariner meltdown episode. And then I'm like, I always forget the twist that it's Boimler that has the meltdown. And I love that because he needs to do that more.
00:06:59
Speaker
This episode is continuing that idea that they're really trying to be like, okay, we've heard your criticisms from the first two seasons. And it's basically like, it's the Mariner show. And this season is very much like, it's not the Mariner show. And her being kind of shoved aside, especially when it looks like it's going to be a Mariner episode.
00:07:19
Speaker
I mean, it's not delicate. It's just like, it's very clear that that's what they're doing, which is interesting. um And then in this other storyline, we finally get the Rutherford story. What are these strange visions, flashes he's been seeing through his...
00:07:33
Speaker
his implant ah for the last couple seasons. And we find out that his younger self was a reckless test pilot who followed his own rules. I love it so, like just Eugene Cordero playing hard is one of my favorite cute things ever.
00:07:49
Speaker
And he he's such a he seems like a guy who could pull it off, but he's still a nerd when he does He's such a nerd. He's such a nerd. I mean, his, his cooler, hipper, angrier self, it,
00:08:01
Speaker
It is like a clear delineation, but you know, you can still, he sounds like a nice guy, no matter what version he's doing. And so he gets, so this version, this like psyche comes to the fore and they have a battle in the mindscape, which I was watching as I'm getting sentimental, Katie, because that was the first episode I had you on.
00:08:20
Speaker
for Star Trek Picard season three, where is Brent Spiner acting against himself in a mind space, which made me go, wait a minute, do does like Secret Hideout have like, the this is the idea hat. yeah You can pull concepts out of here and that's it. And because it was strange in this, up in these two episodes, how there was multiple things that appear in other series.
00:08:40
Speaker
And that was one of them where there's a battle and ah this one, they decide that the winner will, you cannot merge one, only one can come out on top. And and in it went I'll get into the story later.
00:08:53
Speaker
But they end up deciding who's going to get control of the body with the race based on the ships that they built. Yep. Ships that they built in the mindscape whilst also being attacked by a Vulcan ship. Yeah. In the mindscape.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It was a Romulan Warbird point of order. I'm sorry. the a Romulan Warbird. You're totally right. You're totally right. My bad. That is bad.
00:09:18
Speaker
But before we get into that storyline a little bit more let's go back to the other one. Katie, have you ever worked at a booth before? i have worked as a booth babe at several places for random things. Food booth babe. Oh, I did a booth babe thing recently.
00:09:32
Speaker
ah can't remember what it was. I've done it so many times. And like people always think that I know things about the product I'm hawking or whatever it is. I don't really know. Other than Geekscape booth at Comic-Con, I don't really know what's going on usually when I'm a booth babe. Yeah.
00:09:49
Speaker
I've never been a booth babe because I will not wax my bikini zone. Oh, that's weird. Yeah, that was my line. and so yeah But no, I've never done it in actually... um If I've ever worked a booth, I've been the guy that's like, I will do everything in the back. i don't want to talk to people.
00:10:06
Speaker
this ah But I also ah have avoided booths. That's what I'm very good at. i so just avoided Avoiding the booth areas or job fairs, Comic Cons. I'm like, yeah so art the exception being Artist Alley at Comic Con. That was cool.
00:10:26
Speaker
And that was fine. But like anytime there's like actors there, I'm like, let leave them be. i agree I usually I i avoid booths when the actors are there, even if it's somebody I like love or whatever.
00:10:38
Speaker
Usually there's just like a giant line and there's so many people just trying to get something out of them. And I'm like, everything feels icky. I don't want to. I'd rather meet them on set. Plus, what can you what can you say to them? Hey, thanks for changing my life. Appreciate it. See you later. you know and they're like They've heard that a thousand times. I know.
00:10:56
Speaker
I know. Michael Doran, you come off as a good man and i love the character of Worf. Thank you for changing my life. and you Bye. I thought you were here bringing my burrito.
00:11:07
Speaker
You don't have any like cool art or anything to give to me? No? Okay. On your way. Also, with Booth Babes and all that stuff, I'm like, this I mean...
Acting vs. Fame and Social Media
00:11:18
Speaker
here this is This is fooling me. I'm not doing dealing with this.
00:11:23
Speaker
I'm supposed to look at you to go closer to the booth so that I get wrapped into your commerce. I'm just not going to play that game. It's true. Because like i'm you know in the acting realm, I've been hired for several booths. I once went to an HR convention in Las Vegas um and was a booth babe.
00:11:41
Speaker
ah Just that sentence alone, I never thought I'd say. But have you ever... like been on the like working circuit of conventions or anything like that or having to like work the floor?
00:11:53
Speaker
No. no i why Do I come off as a person who could do that? no I mean, you definitely come off as somebody who's packaging in the bag for sure. But I don't know. I will set the mission parameters. I'll be like, this is what we're trying to convey. This is what we need. for Remember to say this. This isn't that.
00:12:12
Speaker
I think the only the closest... The most salient memory is high school, but working in city government. That's so boring. oh So you're getting a lot of adults coming up to you. You're getting very few kids coming up to you.
00:12:25
Speaker
Okay. Well, that also might like track with the same kind of thing, because usually when you work as like a booth babe or you work as somebody who works a booth for a company, you have like a set script that you have to talk about. There's like certain things.
00:12:38
Speaker
But like to a point where... ah When they start asking you even more questions, you have to like refer them to a manager or refer them to somebody who actually knows about the company and not just you the face of it.
00:12:49
Speaker
um But I remember there was a couple of times that I was caught without a manager or caught without somebody who actually knew what the company was about and I'd have to improvise. And I don't know how many companies have gotten bad reviews because some dumbass like me was like, yeah, these are totally vegan snacks.
00:13:11
Speaker
ah No milk product in that. You're like making up companies on the fly then people have to honor that. Oh my God. How amazing would that be? Oh, that would not be good. Form from ink. It's a real thing now. Cause that's what, that's what she said. yeah It's me. Unlocked a memory though, because i was in the back cause I got there later and, and I was listening to my colleagues struggling. It was like our youth commission okay or something like that. Something student related.
00:13:44
Speaker
And then just being like, not recognizing the words of the pitch, but just being like, just say this. It's much clearer and faster. And then if they do have any questions, like here's our and advisor that you can ask about it.
00:13:56
Speaker
But then that, then suddenly i was in the front. So that was, that was basically, it it's kind of like the show though. It's like the show. Once you have the script, I just repeat the same things for better or worse. Sometimes I'm like, do people like the show because of the repetition or they dislike the show? I bet it's the guidelines. I mean, I'm sure it's also like the opinions hold value and you know you call out things that maybe people are more interested in the type of storytelling when you call them out because you have the background knowledge of entertainment and writing and production.
00:14:29
Speaker
I try to forget and then something will happen and I'll be like, it's all coming back to me now. So I've been thinking about producing other things and um what holds me back, well, besides the fact that, well, when we're recording this, the industry looks like it's like the country.
Challenges in Producing and Creative Perseverance
00:14:49
Speaker
so I don't know going to be in a few months with that. But like at the time right now, when I keep thinking about producing or like reaching out, trying to find fun investors all that. I'm reminding myself of the intense chest pains the likes of which I've never had in my entire life.
00:15:03
Speaker
And before or since. ah and who Yeah, i feel that. Yeah. Did you see Nosferatu? i I did not, but I had someone very detailed explain the ending scene to me and I was like, sure. The ending scene is, yeah.
00:15:20
Speaker
So just as it's a, not ah quite a spoiler for the movie Nosferatu, which most people have absorbed through the cultural awareness. Sure. Over time. But the way that they do the vampire sucking in that movie is different from how we're used to it. It's not a neck bite. It's like a chest, middle of the chest where the heart is bite. And it has this weird, grotesque, not weird, grotesque suctioning sound that sounds like a metal clank when he's like when he's doing it.
00:15:50
Speaker
And it's really there's a touch of a metallic sound in it. But that's what it's trying to like get this idea of something's being suctioned. and And that sound is so upsetting. I'm like, that I would rather feel than the pain I felt in my heart while producing, which felt like two fists.
00:16:11
Speaker
Remember in the Rocky Fortress beginning when we had the American fist and the Russian fist and they bash together and explodes? That's my heart in the middle that's being bashed. Oh my God. Yeah, you should ah step away from that side of the production. So that's why producing, i was like, I don't know.
00:16:28
Speaker
yeah i Yeah. Trust me, especially when you're like trying to collaborate with so many people. I get it. It's it's a stressful job. And I'm a people pleaser. So i'm I'm giving, I'm like, okay, what do you need? What do you need? What do you need? Okay. All three three of these things conflict.
00:16:44
Speaker
What do we agree on We agree on this thing. So how do we build off of the agreement to get some version of the three things that we want? Sometimes people are like, They have it locked in and you can give them the same thing, but present in a different way that works for somebody else.
00:16:59
Speaker
And that's fine. Other people like it needs to be exactly like this. Then you have to negotiate. It's just constant. It's constant. That's what it's saying with directing. It's constant. Like it's all decisions. So everybody, everybody has questions and you have to always have an answer whether or not you really trust it or not.
00:17:14
Speaker
But I do want to say something that any aspiring aspirants or people in your life, you know, you have like ah a family member or a friend who's like, i want to get into acting or whatever. So like Katie, what you said really reminded me of something. It's kind of like I was on that big David Lynch kick after he died.
00:17:30
Speaker
Yeah. There's something to being an artist, which is what you are, where it's just doing art. And sometimes that will lead you into stupid jobs, which are art adjacent.
00:17:42
Speaker
But that is the difference between acting, wanting, like working towards being an actor. and just wanting to be famous. Oh yeah. you And that is tough because I don't think, my sense is that the percentage of the people who can't make that distinction has grown lot in the last 20 years.
00:18:04
Speaker
and it's But it's always been there, obviously. It's always been there, but I think it's been exacerbated by social media and sort of the quick fame that people seem to get with viral posts or becoming Insta famous or TikTok famous or whatever.
00:18:20
Speaker
So it kind of muddles what the actual art of it can be. And there's a lot of grunt work that a lot of people who are just in it to become famous have. don't understand and don't have the time for. And as someone who just came off of like the craziest 48 hours of filming in Vegas, you got you got to have a really strong mind and a really strong heart to get through this business. And there's a reason why there's so many people that are still in l a looking for their shot, even though
00:18:53
Speaker
Things have burned down. It's like packing up saying that was a fun hundred years moving on. Yeah. to And beyond. yeah But there's but what what it is, that it's it's like art. It will lead you down dead ends, roundabouts. You will go. It's it is art. And it's nothing like AI does not.
00:19:16
Speaker
It promises a shortcut, but the art is not in the completion. It's in the journey to that. you know, how many artists, listeners, have you heard directors and writers where they're like, it's not finished yet?
00:19:29
Speaker
You know, yeah it's just something that they either keep returning to it. They can't get their next project out because they keep revisiting. So it's just, it's just a lot of, um,
00:19:40
Speaker
Starts and stops, false starts, misdirections. All these things are important. and And I think it's like it's not about building character or paying your dues, which is how they say it. I think it's just like if you really are ah possessed by the thing to create and perform that you don't have a choice.
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's kind of it's kind of like you're being held hostage by your passions. And, you know, if that is someone that is out here listening to our Star Trek podcast about Lower Decks, may I just encourage you to just keep trying ah because that's the only way that things get made is that you just keep trying and, you know, set your boundaries where you need to ah get paid and make sure that happens.
00:20:23
Speaker
But also, you know, those dead ends aren't always really a dead end. They might just be a stepping stone for a different avenue that you didn't realize. Same as if you're writing something or you're painting or drawing or whatever. It's just you're constructing something. There's plenty of artists who do actual tangible sculptures and so and such.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And you'll hit dead end. You'll hit walls on that and you'll be like, well, then what? You know, it's not usually that people just scrap the whole thing, right? They try to evolve it. They try to work with in the restriction that they've run into. So it's all those things.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. They don't lose their shit at a booth, but this is a cartoon. a Way to bring it back. And as we've said so many times, they've you know Star Trek, which requires, in order for it to work best, requires a veneer of reality to pin it down. And so...
00:21:18
Speaker
Lower Decks is promising like, but what if it was just loony tunes all the time?
Star Trek and Societal Reflections
00:21:25
Speaker
And then when we played the serious music and we slowed it down, we tricked you into thinking it had a veneer of reality to it.
00:21:33
Speaker
But before we get into the grades, some production notes about reflections. um The Cerritos previously visited Tolgana for an envoys. I knew at sound it sounded familiar.
00:21:44
Speaker
And it was Boimler's first mission aboard the Titans. ah This is the planet in no small parts. Was this the one where he's posing as the labor union guy? Like we know your Starfleet. Yeah, I think it is.
00:21:57
Speaker
And young Rutherford's first attempt to escape from the Cerritos is foiled by Togonis IV's ionic field, whose existence was also established in envoys. To generate interest in the Starfleet recruiting booth, Mariner says, prepare yourself for Warp 10 excitement, which was the tagline for the novelization no Star Trek II.
00:22:20
Speaker
I didn't realize that. That's a great fun fact. And she mentions about the undiscovered country as well, but that the that's just like everyone knows the title of Star Trek VI. And so just knowing that that was the tagline for the novelization.
00:22:34
Speaker
I had to put that note in there. That is a deep cut. yeah When Mariner explains the process of signing up for Starfleet as a non-commissioned officer, she mentions Starfleet tech Technical Services Academy. This training facility was first mentioned in an Akutagram readout in and Next Generation episode.
00:22:51
Speaker
Eye of the Beholder. Now, I'm going to guess what Eye of the Beholder was. I'm pretty sure I know what it is. And then I'm going to look it up. Eye of the Beholder is the episode where a dude ah dies by suicide by jumping into the plasma stream of the warp nacelle.
00:23:06
Speaker
And then Dr. Crusher is investigating and like her empathic abilities unlock some sort of like mystery murder romance going on. it was an episode that was going on when I was getting ready to graduate eighth grade. So a lot of hormones going on. that was one I've only watched once and I don't remember it being very good.
00:23:25
Speaker
Now looking up, Eye of the Beholder episode.
00:23:29
Speaker
Counselor Choi's investigation into the suicide of a crewman suggests a murder was committed aboard the Enterprise while it was being built and that the murderer is still aboard. That is a sweaty episode. They're like, how can there be a murder on the Enterprise? What if there was one while it was being built?
00:23:45
Speaker
That's when security's lower. Right, right. And then that person is assigned to the ship and stays on the vessel for the whole time. Okay. All right.
00:23:57
Speaker
Renee Echeverria, sure, but also by season seven, that writing staff was tired. So, yeah, you know, they were at 120 pitches. They should have gone to the bullpen.
00:24:08
Speaker
All right. This episode features six different Starfleet uniform styles, the most to ever appear in a single episode. You have the one from Kirk and Spock in the early 2270s. That's the original series.
00:24:22
Speaker
The Starfleet uniform, type A,
Starfleet Uniforms and Production Details
00:24:24
Speaker
which is on a pad image. You have the type B worn by an officer in Rutherford's flashback. ah The dress uniform is seen on a pad image.
00:24:33
Speaker
Starfleet uniform, 20... How do we need to say all these? The flight suit. yeah I was like, there's another one from the the 2380s, the cadet uniform. This might have to be a pickup, just like identify them. It's kind of annoying.
00:24:46
Speaker
There are a lot of uniforms. There's a lot of uniforms. i didn't even realize there were that many uniforms in this. So that's a very comprehensive list. Well, and then they call it out when they're like, how come your uniforms are different from other people's? And then they're like, they're always changing them. And so we are as people. yeah know So we get a lot of flashbacks.
00:25:03
Speaker
And then in the mindscape, we get stuff. And and yeah, so. Yeah, yeah, it's it's cool. you You got sort of, i feel like we've talked about like the twinning of episodes, and I feel like we get a bit of twinning with this episode and the next one as well, where it's a lot of about, like, what does the past really provide you to deal with the current time? And it feels like while Boimler and Mariner are at this, you know, little...
00:25:29
Speaker
I don't know, job fair, I guess. yeah um It's basically questioning all of the jokey questions that everybody has with Starfleet. And like, aren't you just military? Like, aren't you just this? Aren't you just that?
00:25:43
Speaker
And so having the uniforms and having all of this kind of inform, yeah, why are they there? Why is Mariner there of all people, you know? And She does crave she does create stability. And that's been said several times over.
00:25:58
Speaker
so yeah and Comedy. Comedy. Make a joke and then we'll see. That's basically... All that's going on there.
00:26:09
Speaker
And then the last note is the computer mentions that Rutherford transferred to the Cerritos in Stardate 46329.4, which would place it between the events of Star Trek Voyager sirfs series finale Endgame and the movie Star Trek Nemesis.
00:26:24
Speaker
So that's effectively establishing that that's when Lower Decks takes place, which I think... Everybody knew that. I think we did. Yeah. Because Nemesis is post Dominion War and Lower Decks is post Dominion War. Yeah.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Shall we get into the
Grading Lower Decks Episode
00:26:41
Speaker
grades? Let's get into those grades. Let's grade it with great moments. Yeah. i I love the stuff with Rutherford and his previous self. A, because just hearing Eugene Cordero would be hard is hilarious and cute.
00:26:56
Speaker
But B, I really liked this whole thing of just Rutherford is so kind and caring that he wants to even save the old version of himself, not just for more information, but for the fact that like it's a piece of him that he's not really familiar with. And I feel like he wants to continue. And so...
00:27:18
Speaker
him the the image of him holding his like dying former self almost feels a little bit like a coming of age type of moment but great call thank it really it legitimately is yeah yeah yeah and i thought that was a really beautiful great moment
00:27:36
Speaker
i
00:27:39
Speaker
I'll give Boimler's freak out as a great moment, I guess. I don't like anything. How great was it that it wasn't Mariner that was doing the freak out?
00:27:50
Speaker
How great was it? I was led because i was like very aware that they were trying to be like, but not a Mariner. but And so I didn't, I wasn't registering with that.
00:28:00
Speaker
um I just thought, I was annoyed by that point in the episode by the running, just the bits that they were doing. Like the game of the scene was just like, it's a Starfleet recruitment booth.
00:28:13
Speaker
And every person who enters the scene has to make some sort of quip, like some sort of dig. And it was just like, once you got the game, it didn't really... do more than that. And so i was just the fact that they end it like a bet, like not a bad improv scene. They ended like an improv scene where someone just snaps and goes crazy.
00:28:32
Speaker
You know, that's just basic second sitting. Yeah. it's just like, it's all very basic, but you know, fine. I think because Boymore hadn't actually been doing that much in the episode, like Mariner was at least trying to be different. Right.
00:28:45
Speaker
We see her constantly modulating her behavior. So I guess I appreciated that for some reason, the Rutherford stuff, Like I couldn't latch on to a great moment. And but I think you did lock in on the thing that felt the most Star Trek.
00:29:00
Speaker
Yeah. So I like that. Yeah. ah Best trick jokes. um Basically just ah solving the problem of yourself. Yeah. That you're your own worst enemy. It feels very Star Trek-y.
00:29:18
Speaker
um And to have done it, what what feels like sort of like, I mean, Rutherford's hooked up to all these like wires and whatnot. And so the doctor is clearly like, well, he's got to work it out himself. We can't really see what's going on in there. So instead of it being like a holodeck type of thing, it's within his own mind. And it's nice that we see that.
00:29:38
Speaker
this had i mean This was done well before ah star Trek Picard season three, ah the episode that we had you on for. So did they, because also remember that that was Surrender. That was the episode.
00:29:53
Speaker
ah That was 2023. because Star Trek Picard season two and three were kind of made at the same time and, and the way they bifurcate the writing process and the production process, they didn't have a lot of time. It seems like even for the time it was, you know what i mean? Like, did they just take this concept and poured it into Picard and, and didn't, and then weren't worried about the, they were like, it's be more than a year that, or be a, it'd be less than a year.
00:30:21
Speaker
I think it was less. It was less than a year that they know these two happen. You know, that the Star Trek writers are always talking to each other. um And I, I mean, that's what it had to be. I feel like it was just so summarized of the, of the writing. Like ah I'm sure someone knew about it. And if it was a direct rip,
00:30:39
Speaker
I don't know if that would fly. I don't mean like a rip. I mean, they're all on the same team. So it's totally fine that like these concepts can be recycled. I think it's just strange to see them recycled so close together.
00:30:52
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, that's all. That's kind of really all I was saying. no And actually, now you mention it, you know, they could have just watched this episode. I don't know when they were writing. No, because Picard came out in 23. They said they sat on the bridge reveal in 22.
00:31:07
Speaker
So they would have just had to know about this idea at some point in the interim. I don't know. It's just, it's just very strange. But yeah, that is still great because we've seen Picard in heaven with Q and yeah we've seen these like blank rooms every time Cisco talks to the prophets, you know, this idea of like, yeah, dealing with yourself.
00:31:26
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i guess Star Trek has to be a little careful with that, that it's all this ethereal stuff, because, you know, ah Next Generation dealt with that by having them talk to other characters.
00:31:39
Speaker
You know, Riker meets a transporter clone of himself, right? They're not in the mindscape. It's like it's a real thing that they have to confront, but it's still dealing with similar issues. And in fact, in that one, this episode is actually very similar, right? This is a younger Riker. He's had a completely different ah situation, ah upbringing, I guess you could say.
00:31:57
Speaker
um yeah all right that's good to any other ones ah that was kind of my main one I had like a couple of like little things just with the booth like i I thought it was cool that we got to see like what is the reasoning that someone would want to join Starfleet and ah which I thought were like fun moments of just like But I didn't quite catch them as tropey necessarily as much as they were referenced. Yeah, I have a trope that addresses that thing you liked in my worst track trope. But my best track trope was pips.
00:32:30
Speaker
a Making the pips the Boimler's breaking point. you know Because in it's always so dramatic. You got another pip on that collar. Or when an insurrection in the theater. I remember laughing well.
00:32:43
Speaker
when Picard dramatically removes his pips, when he's like, I'm disobeying orders. yep I mean, that was great. And just seeing Boimler freak out and Mariner's like, we can replicate another one. He's like, that's too far.
00:32:55
Speaker
but Well, it's so funny too, because we get that joke of like, that they're kind of like the military in their own way. And, you know, they get offended by that. But then like, in terms of the pips, it feels like ranking like pips.
00:33:09
Speaker
And like, not only did it get ripped off of them, it got thrown on the ground and then someone stomped on it. Yeah. Could you imagine walking up to like an army dude and ripping his pips off or his like badges and stuff off and then throwing it on the ground and stomping on it?
00:33:23
Speaker
So this is perfect. You've walked right into my... I know. do Walked right into the rhetorical trap, I guess, because again, I'm not a mushroom, a screaming mushroom man on YouTube, but hit boy, boys reaction is the feeling that people like me have when they see things like it means something to us.
00:33:51
Speaker
That's why we're signing up for your stupid streaming service. That's why we're putting up for people who are trying their best. To like say they like Star Trek and they know it and they like Gene Roddenberry's vision.
00:34:04
Speaker
Like we're putting up with a lot because because it means something to it it means something to people and to see it tossed off and thrown on the ground.
00:34:15
Speaker
Or whatever. on Like, there's a lot of symbolism. There's a lot of metaphor and a lot of symbolism there. So I thought it was, I think it's interesting. don't know. Just think it's interesting. I would agree with you. and I fully understand where you're coming from with that. And like that's that's where I think...
00:34:32
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like the series kind of paid homage to noma so like Star Trek fans at conventions and whatnot and just getting. But that's been done. It's been done better. like i only think they done But it hasn't been such a one to one necessarily in this context of the world. like oh Sure.
00:34:49
Speaker
And that's where maybe this is worst Trek tropes time because mine was callbacks. But sure. two it's all the same soup where it's just all they're doing is pointing out. It's like Reddit posts. Like they basically just took a Reddit thread of like everything wrong with Star Trek or the nitpickers guide to Star Trek or like, what are people do? they Is it a military organization? Are they space cops?
00:35:10
Speaker
What's going on there? Was all that. And that's why I said, it's like, it just felt like a very lazy game. And that's why I think the pandemic had a lot to do with it. You're trying to impress each other on a zoom screen instead of in a room. Right. So What might happen is you're actually just being like, who can have the deepest cut?
00:35:26
Speaker
Who can ask the most askance question that really pulls you out of the mindset of like, we're doing Star Trek. Like, oh, that'd be interesting. Or ha ha, that'd be funny. No one ever said that in the show or never, no one ever thought that.
00:35:41
Speaker
Yeah. So we're getting, as much as I mentioned the deep cut to the novelization, I still think a lot of it between the two episodes or the two storylines, there was just a lot of lazy referencing to that point.
00:35:54
Speaker
I said this in the last month, when we get a sense of Rutherford's fantasy, it winds up being a callback, yeah right? That was last month. This week, this month, it's we get a callback or he has a chance to use his imagination.
00:36:08
Speaker
And his imagination is a Star Trek Voyager reference. And it's just that kind of shit is what drives me nuts. Because it's like, here's a chance. So what you're saying is that when Rutherford was younger and hungrier, he was more creative and original.
00:36:23
Speaker
Now that older, he's just a hack who can only like remember like what he's seen somewhere else that's been done better. like that so The fact that it contains his friends and they win with the power of friendship, it always comes down to the Care Bear stare.
00:36:38
Speaker
Every animation always boils down to the Care Bear stare. Work together, be friends. That's every animation, every cartoon you'll ever see, which is why when people try to push animation as a higher art form, I'm like, fine, but at the end of the day, how much of it is just coming together and doing the Care Bear stare? It's always a character. And that's what they do. They win with the power of friendship. Fine. The fact that it's in the Delta flyer, not like the Sequoia, the shuttle they've been working on this whole time.
00:37:02
Speaker
Like this is the stuff that drives me nuts about the show because it's a callback for callback sake. And I assign that to laziness. Not isn't that clever. It's nothing clever of opening up the encyclopedia and just pulling out references left and right.
00:37:16
Speaker
So that's my point. I totally get that. i Clearly someone doesn't like to work in a group setting. and yeah i'm saying it like it I would be the person in the room saying like, that's fun, but what about the Sequoia? How about like something that ties directly into that friendship? What's the symbol of that?
00:37:35
Speaker
And then the episode starts with him working on it. It drops like the little bit drops on his head. I thought we were going to get, this you know, that would have been a payoff. No, it would it would have been, but it's also, when you think about it, it's it's Rutherford dealing with his former self with all the knowledge and in things that he knows of the current state of where where he is. like his I mean, he's been called old man. So the old man, Rutherford, is basically, he has all this knowledge and knows how the like combined efforts of his friends has paid off and how...
00:38:09
Speaker
everything he's learned in Starfleet, in like traveling the universe, that like there are certain protocols and things that he wants to have in place, so but he needs other people in order to help maintain that.
00:38:21
Speaker
I feel like it it it kind of it's instead of it being more direct shot of like, oh, why didn't we get like the real Tendi in this mindscape somehow um or or whatever to help him fight his former self?
00:38:34
Speaker
I think it was really more about the journey of Rutherford facing himself and what he's learned so far on this side of his memory wipe. I completely agree. I'm just saying when they have the chance to imagine whatever they want, as in the last month's episode, Rutherford just imagines the Star Trek reference. You're so young Rutherford right now.
00:38:55
Speaker
Most cosplayable character a moment. It's got to be young Rutherford, right? Oh, yeah. It's 100% young Rutherford.
Tendi's Syndicate Training Saves the Day
00:39:01
Speaker
Or blasted on the side of his body, Rutherford. You know what? That'd be kind of cool.
00:39:07
Speaker
I'm trying to think what they were referencing there because they're always referencing something. But it looked like a nice mishmash. um It kind of looked like Finn's stuff in The Force Awakens. After he puts on what's Oscar Isaac's character's name when he gives him the jacket. i like he Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:22
Speaker
yeah He's kind of giving that energy. Oh, Dameron. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I'm not a Star Wars person. I don't have to know all this stuff. Sorry. No, it was like, my brain was like, switch the side to the wars and not the trek. And I was like, reference, reference, Poe Dameron. Okay. You're like, space, space cops, space wizards, space cops, space wizards. but yeah so true Oh, man.
00:39:47
Speaker
All right. ah Now it's time for the line must be drawn. Yeah. Great lines. I have one. yeah Okay, what's your one? Tendi's line. Looks like you've got some long-term memory stuck in the buffer. Probably some useless stuff, like when you call the captain mom.
00:40:00
Speaker
Yes, that was such a good one. And I was like, oh, I kind of wish we had a cutaway to that.
00:40:07
Speaker
um i have a mariner and no one's ever signed up for starfleet the star no one has ever signed up for starfleet at the recruitment booth tendy i did because of course you're not helping sorry yeah um i i loved the star starbase 80 stuff um that like took a turn that i was not expecting um so i have starbase 80 don't joke about that that's the worst um which is random for Mariner.
00:40:37
Speaker
ah Mariner just trying to get people to the booth, just like carnival barking, Starfleet, get your Starfleet here. um
00:40:50
Speaker
There was the moment when Rutherford is talking to his younger self and he was like, haven't you noticed like anything weird? and he's like, well, there was that one time I did like pairs for a minute. And he's like, that was me.
00:41:02
Speaker
I love pairs. low right that's a like fun reference that we did had no idea but that's why he just randomly started liking pairs is because it was his older self that's great um your so your ship smells like ass um and then what else we have i guess someone broke even more rules than we did which i thought was really good now it's time for the line must be drawn here great art it it's the same as my great moment it's uh rutherford holding his older self or his younger self as he passes away into non-consciousness i'll go with that i i think again the pandemic had something to do with this because i think we've earlier praised the space battle the space fights yeah but now when i've been the finale of the last season
00:41:54
Speaker
And this time around, i thought that it looked like a Saturday morning cartoon. It was a little bit odd. It did not look good. So I'm like, this must have been people working from home. What are you to do I guess, you know, but I was surprised is kind of why I'm pointing. I'm highlighting it.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Would this have been a fun holo novel to play out? I guess you could take your choice or whichever storyline ah you'd want to live. Would you want to be in the mindscape with yourself, your younger self, Katie?
00:42:24
Speaker
I mean, you're pretty young. Katie's like 25. So I mean, like she. um Did you read the script of the thing I just shot? um ah I am definitely not 25 and I haven't been so in at least a decade. um But ah i um I wouldn't want to do this with myself because I don't think I could stand my younger self.
00:42:45
Speaker
um But I do think the idea of sort of like seeing the mirror universe or getting to play like ah an older version of Picard or getting to play an older version of Deanna Troi or something like that. Like if you could holodeck into one of their bodies while the ah like the actual character was by your side going like, what are you doing?
00:43:08
Speaker
and think it would be a really fun thing. The recruitment booth, I mean, i i don't think it would I don't think this would be a fun holo novel to play. no actually It's not that people are just coming by and insulting everybody. It's just like, why does Starfleet have a recruitment booth?
00:43:24
Speaker
That's my question. It's a vocation, if nothing else. And you want people who want to be there. And probably in a post-scarcity society, because that's another thing they like to mention a lot, yeah people would just be going, hey, they would just recruit them.
00:43:40
Speaker
They wouldn't need the booth. Like the idea that there's quotas and numbers to get recruitment. I guess I almost put it as a worst Trek trope, but I could do that every week. We used also have a grade called what was the most of its time quality for this episode?
00:43:53
Speaker
And again, it's it can always come down to star Trek is supposed to reflect the feelings of our times. It's not supposed to actually just be a one-to-one, like what if today, but they're wearing Starfleet uniforms. And that's what they're doing here, which is really sad.
00:44:06
Speaker
Yeah. But I will say that like after the post freak out of Boimler and then Boimler being walked down by ransom to the brig, I thought was a really sweet moment where he was like, you know, i'm not going to send you to star base 80. That place is crazy. You don't want to go there.
00:44:21
Speaker
It's good characterization because it's like, yeah, Boimler has earned it. But yeah, but it's like, it's Boimler. It's not Mariner Mariner. You expect something like that. yeah And, and if Mariner had done it,
00:44:34
Speaker
It would have been 10th on the list of their comments of like, well, at least you stood up for the for the service, like for our what we're trying to do here.
00:44:45
Speaker
But there with Mariners, there's so many other things that it's a problem with with Boimo, it's like that's out of you're not supposed to do that. That's out of character. Yeah, you're in the break. Hey, thanks for sticking up. That was that was.
00:44:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. What part of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy then? How do I identify nefarious upper management while you're in Starfleet Academy? Oh, that was all that was also another worst of its time that you could have. a Worst Trek trip, I guessed, as well, the the bad morals.
00:45:13
Speaker
But, you know, I think it's also kind of another thing. If if you think about Star Trek Picard season three, it's like... Aside from our characters, because in Star Trek Picard season three, we had we established that, oh, after the Dominion War, Starfleet scientists just were like torturing changelings and all that. And it so that's another most of its time bad Trek trope of like, except for our main characters, it's an evil and cruel universe.
00:45:38
Speaker
And everyone is, it's as cruel as basically Nazi Germany, which is like, we get to see that if we turn on the news, like why is Star Trek? Yeah. We got to we got enough Nazism in our world right now. ah I, I, roll a lot I forgot what you said, but yeah, we'll go with that.
00:45:56
Speaker
yeah How do I identify? har the academyy The instructors are like, let's wrap guys. Well, or let's wrap folks. I mean, in in talking about like the whole like Nazism in a real world, i do feel like the, the one-to-one, especially in our real world is how to identify nefarious upper management while you're actually in the Academy is a good way to stop things before they get started. Sure. But I mean, we're going to watch Starfleet Academy and it's going to have Holly Hunter as like the, the, the,
00:46:26
Speaker
and chairman or whatever running the the prince academy okay yeah the principal and i'm sure paul jamadi is but going to be like the popular professor and then there's she's going to become the red herring that she's up to something but he's the real villain or he'll just be an alien that's like ah whatever but like holly hunter will be embroiled in some ethical gray area you know and there we're teaching students one thing but we're having them do other things You know, and to be fair, they were doing this in Deep Space Nine with Red Squad. That was established.
00:46:55
Speaker
The first duty with the with Wesley Crusher and the flight team. But that episode was about, no, that's not what we're supposed to do. so You're supposed to tell the truth and be good. and And that was a message that got adhered to. But basically, since the first duty, everyone's like, no, it's the it's today's military. It's all about it. It's all corrupt and it's all evil and everything you think you're doing is good is is like bullshit. And by the way, section 31 is actually doing the work.
00:47:29
Speaker
You're just coming in and putting a good fresh coat of paint on it. Right. And people were happy with that. People think that's what Star Trek is. So I don't know what that says about the state of ah affairs and our cultural, our cultural beliefs. Yeah.
00:47:43
Speaker
But that's, that's what it is. right. So trick, marry or kill reflections. I said a trek. Yeah. I said it was a trek too. Okay. Yeah. and The jokes were constant. And for like for me, the hit rate on the story of the recruiting storyline. Mm-hmm.
00:48:04
Speaker
was like one out of six. Sure. But they got a they got one out of six. They got one, which is huge. 50. That's huge. huge. That's from Brian Murphy. So what is that? Like nine? That's like ah eight jokes or, you know, eight jokes that kind of landed in that run. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. And then I appreciated...
00:48:23
Speaker
The Rutherford storyline, I think that's... yeah Especially since we get so little about him. Like, it was a good... And it's so the beginning of, like i' like, more of his story, which we find out more in the season. And it's a fun ride. Like, it's an interesting thing.
00:48:38
Speaker
but it's But it's also, like... oh, wow, you were so diverse in how you started and where you ended up. And it's like, where I really want to know how we bridge that gap. So that's that's truly why I track this episode, because I like i like seeing people's backstories kind of have a through line over multiple episodes.
00:48:56
Speaker
And different from the other characters as well, which is very important. yeah All right, when we come back, we're going to go to Deep Space Nine. Hear All, Trust Nothing is the sixth episode of Lower Decks, third season. It premiered on Paramount Plus September 29th, 2022.
00:49:11
Speaker
Written by Grace Parajani, directed by Phil Marks Sagadraka. Memory Alpha describes it. The Cerritos crew unexpectedly the cerritos crew unexpectedly spends a day on Deep Space Nine.
00:49:23
Speaker
The reason for that is, what Memory Alpha isn't telling us, is that Captain Freeman has at the last minute been dragged into taking over... negotiations with the Karama species we meet in Deep Space Nine.
00:49:36
Speaker
Originally, the first one of the first people we meet who was a Karama was played by James Cromwell of Babe fame. And
00:49:46
Speaker
I love that. Basically, they the Ferengi established trade relations with the Karma, Tulaberry wine. And ah eventually when the Federation was like, we should find out where these Dominion folks are and see if we can talk to them or blow them up.
00:50:01
Speaker
And they their only real in they had to the Dominion was the Karma. So that was their contact point. Freeman has to come in and basically start up negotiations again. Hey, now that the war is over, things are kind of cooled down, maybe we can establish some relationships between the Alpha and Gamma Quadrants.
00:50:17
Speaker
And when they get to be Deep Space Nine, the only denizens from Deep Space Nine that are there with speaking lines, we have Nana Visitor voicing Colonel Kira, and we have Armin Shimmerman voicing Quark again.
00:50:30
Speaker
Another appearance, though, of a denizen is Mourn. who never speaks, but always sits at the bar. It is a jumbling of the letters of Norm from Cheers. I wondered. Okay, okay, okay.
00:50:44
Speaker
ah And the other storyline was Tendi meets another Starfleet officer who's in Orion, and his name's Musk.
00:50:56
Speaker
Did write it down correctly? I think so. Mesk or something? Mesk, voiced by... the incomparable. And I mean that in all the ways. Do you? Adam Pally. Yeah. yeah A hundred percent. Who is very funny, but in no way can play anything other than Adam Pally. That's the thing that like every time I'm like, well, ah here's Adam Pally in this. Yeah.
00:51:20
Speaker
ah What a fun character to throw up against Tendi though, which anything that brings Tendi either closer to her pirate roots or gets her to explain certain things is really fun for me to see.
00:51:34
Speaker
And he is basically the Worf of the Orions. Like, that is the the backstory they're they're giving him. And he's trying to basically... He's like a teenager of the Worf. Yeah, getting her to stereotype out as Orions.
00:51:47
Speaker
Yes. And then there's some shenanigans, and somehow the Karama are able to overpower the entire station. Whatever. And... And it's up to Teddy to save the day at the end. So that's a little trip to Deep Sea Sign. I've completely forgotten about the other storyline and I didn't mean to. um Mariner. The Mariner is stuck on the Cerritos with her girlfriend, Jennifer, um in a salon. And I had to ask, have you ever been to a pretentious salon?
00:52:15
Speaker
bri oh my god i was gonna ask you that i never i didn't even know what a salon was so there's salon track which is another uh podcast series on youtube okay and i'm like is i didn't know that a salon was anything more than like something for your hair but it's like it's a meeting yeah and it's usually at least in los angeles amongst actors a salon is basically a meeting of artists to kind of wax poetic about their stuff and this felt very much like a bunch of actresses getting together to have a salam well I think this is yeah this is a zoom room pitching
00:52:52
Speaker
What did I just do that I could bring to this thing that we can pull off in the show? Oh, I went to a salon over Zoom and we can do that. I get it.
00:53:05
Speaker
What's interesting about that is Tawny Newsome is a huge Deep Space Nine fan. And so to give again, to continue the season theme of shoving Mariner aside, it's a little cruel that the original draft of the script Mariner was not ever going to set foot on Deep Space Nine.
00:53:21
Speaker
And so Tony Newsom was like, it's my favorite show. Can you write a scene where Mariner goes on it? So she goes on at the end. I did. I did find the ah that you have the um the fact of Armin Shimmerman wearing the prosthetic thing, the teeth.
00:53:38
Speaker
yeah're like Oh, that's so cool, because you can't really get that like lispy, quirky thing that he does ah without those teeth. So I'm really glad that he made sure to do that.
00:53:50
Speaker
Yeah. And I think what the new producers, and I'm sorry to make this distinction, but it's simply the case that they were afraid of was when they were doing the Klingon teeth, they had the teeth so full that the actors really couldn't only, they, the talking was so obstructive, they changed it So then that there was none of that.
00:54:12
Speaker
And it's like, how about a balance where it, Because it's you need that sound in Quark's voice. Otherwise, he doesn't sound like Quark. So just the idea that they, in the new shows, they just won't fang him up, which is what's going on and and when we see Ferengi and other iterations in Discovery and Picard.
00:54:34
Speaker
They don't quite sound right because they don't do the teeth appliances yeah because they only know they only I guess the appliances only go to it's only goes to 11 or it's only at 11. The setting there's no there's no modulation. They like we don't have time to adjust these.
00:54:49
Speaker
It's either like bigger than your head or or we're not doing that at all. yeah But Arvin Sherman is great. He is an actor's actor. He's always thinking and and bringing it very thoughtful.
00:55:01
Speaker
The title of the episode is a reference to the 190th rule of the Ferengi rules of acquisition. Here I'll trust nothing, which was stated in the Deep Space Nine episode season five finale Call to Arms.
00:55:12
Speaker
When first approaching Tendi, Mesk is shown drinking Modella Apertif, a layered cocktail cork prepared for Jadzia Dax in the episode Dramatis Persona.
00:55:24
Speaker
Kira Shaxx, I know what episode that is. i don't need to ask it and then look it up. I know exactly which one that is. They bring an artifact back from the from the Gamma Quadrant, which causes everyone to, ah they're inhabited by these different personalities and they basically start living out a coup that happened on some alien world.
00:55:41
Speaker
um Cisco's like the king, the mad king who becomes very obsessed with clocks and like becomes withdrawn and hides in his quarters. And they're like, you need to fight. He's like, my clocks.
00:55:53
Speaker
yeah It's interesting. All right.
00:55:58
Speaker
Kira, Shaxx and Rutherford are each shown drinking one at the end of the episode as well, as it's a specialty of the Quark 2000 replicator, which is the... Point of the episode, Quark's stolen this technology from the Karma, presumably years ago, and is using it as part of his chain of Quark's Bar restaurants, which is extraordinarily profitable chain restaurant, which we saw in Star Trek Picard season one, that it was established as a chain and it gets called back again.
00:56:25
Speaker
And he's trying to make sure that it gets on Starfleet campuses. That's right. That's right. That's right. ah Carol Freeman's solve at the end to resolve the conflict is that 75% of his profits?
00:56:37
Speaker
No, no. Not 75. 76. 76 are going to the karma? yeah And he agreed to that? I know. I mean, I guess they're saying that he's the profits are so intense, like they're just remarkable yeah um
Deep Space Nine's Legacy
00:56:53
Speaker
matter what margins that I guess – but they call him poor and it's like, yeah, no, no, that is, that is bad, bad. That's the bad capitalism worm we need to kill. yeahp He's profiting 25% or 24%.
00:57:07
Speaker
That is a fine profit margin. That is not bad. Well, I feel like it's also kind of helping him, you know, not be so capitalistic in a way.
00:57:18
Speaker
Cause it's like, can't just steal things and not pay their due. Yeah. I guess maybe there is a deal where it's like they they could have just said that 76% over the next five years. that That would have been reasonable to pay the licensing fee and then it will even help.
00:57:33
Speaker
Yeah. But it's a cartoon. They didn't time for that. Katie, your feelings on Deep Space Nine real quick. So I have not seen any of Deep Space Mind. I knew you knew it.
00:57:46
Speaker
But like i i I, like Kira seems really interesting to me. i do know Quark because Quark has appeared in so many different things. And I've heard about Quark. um Highest s testing character at the time when they were testing the show but before it launched.
00:58:02
Speaker
Wow, that is something else. He was on the cover of TV Guide. wow You'll never find a more 90s looking alien than freaking Quark. It's so true. But yeah, no, that might be that might be the next ah venture after it Enterprise if I keep going down Enterprise path.
00:58:24
Speaker
Oh yeah, you should have started in Doopsies. yeah okay Okay, all right. I'll move on. i have ah I have an in for you for that. Okay. i don't I'm not a big believer that all Star Trek, the people that are that don't like Star Trek, they're like, I tried.
00:58:38
Speaker
I'm like, well, did you start from the beginning yet? I'm a completionist. I'm like, well, how about you don't do that? And they're no. so You don't want to. what you got just You got to jump around sometimes with these, like especially. Just start when Worf joins the show.
00:58:50
Speaker
Then you have an in. So start season four. OK. And. Yeah. OK. If when you're interested, you can then go back. It's why it took so long for me to get into TNG, because I was starting way at the very beginning of the first episode, and it was like, oh, this is real weird and out there.
00:59:08
Speaker
ah Start when Riker gets his beard. Right, exactly. Yeah, so I'll do season four. there you go. it's It's just basically the Klingons.
00:59:19
Speaker
The Klingon war. Okay, so... I love Deep Space Nine and I think there are mornings I wake up and it's my favorite Star Trek. It was the one that I i think I've said this before. maybe I'll cut this.
00:59:31
Speaker
It's the one that felt like it was for me because the original series was for my grandparents or parents or whatever. And Next Generation, I just missed the start of it and I came in and i I finished it, but it wasn't like made for me, right? It was made for the original series fans who were to continue going. And I love TNG and Captain Picard's role model and all that stuff.
00:59:53
Speaker
But Deep Sea Sign was when I was like, ground four, baby. I'm in. <unk>s got cheap O'Brien. All right. Fantastic. And then I watched that. and And there's just days where i'm like, is Cisco my favorite captain? Because Cisco's like ah Kirk Picard synthesis.
01:00:09
Speaker
Interesting. Okay. And, uh, and he's a dad and like, there's like a lot of stuff going on and, and then Worf came, but like, it was so different, but the same, same kind of the uniforms were different, but they still look like Starfleet.
01:00:21
Speaker
All the verbiage was the same. The style was the same. It wasn't like discovery where it's like, what, when is this happening? What's happening? Yeah. So it was like, it was just like, they were just kind of like leading you along. Like, this is a little different. It's a little different. You you already know who the Cardassians are, right? You met the Bajorans at one time. Well, here's a little more of them.
01:00:41
Speaker
There's stuff going on there. Um, I gotta go back. You need to watch the pilot of Deep Space Nine. The pilot of Deep Space Nine is one of the best pilots of the last 35 years.
01:00:52
Speaker
Wow. It's a great pilot. Then you can jump to season four. Brian, I have to ask, can I watch the pilot of Deep Space Nine with my windows open? This just my basic question. You absolutely can, but I think because it's in and standard def, you'll want to minimize the glare. yeah i got it So Katie is asking this because she started on Enterprise with basically a 10,000 inch TV. yeah And when they get to the first decon chamber scene and it's all nipples and dick bulges, Katie's like, I can't have my windows open.
01:01:27
Speaker
It literally wasn't until it wasn't until the stuffing of the pants that like I was like, all right, we got close some windows because I'm getting embarrassed because it's just like anybody on my street can see it I mean, you weren't embarrassed when the theme song kicked in. Oh, and the pilot.
01:01:46
Speaker
yeah um like A hundred percent. Yes. That's the reason to do it. I mean, my windows weren't open. So do you see sign again? Favorite stuck with that to the end. I mentioned TNG was ending when I was getting ready to end grade school and go into high school. And then.
01:02:02
Speaker
Deep Space Nine was ending when I was about to graduate high school. And I didn't let it go. Like, that's how much I loved Deep Space Nine. As much as TNG was, I loved it and it meant so much to me because Deep Space Nine felt like it was mine.
01:02:14
Speaker
yeah Like, I was like, I stuck with it. Like, As much as fun I had my senior year, I would still, I was good on the taping then. I think I was just i was a pro on taping the episodes. That's all it was.
01:02:27
Speaker
Nevermind. just figured it out myself. So I had started watching Lower Decks and then i drifted away from Lower Decks. Okay. Uh, And this brought me back to Lord X. Wow. Because I'm like, if there's any chance that watching this episode, ah two characters I love, there's any chance that it helps them remaster Deep Space Nine for Paramount Plus, I have to watch it. I have to like talk it up and be positive.
01:02:54
Speaker
So I can't. I thought it might be the plot lines with Kira and with Quark, but no, it was purely the fact of like, if I give attention to this episode, perhaps they will remaster Deep Space. Well, I went into it with no expectations. I went into it being like, it's going to be bits. It's going to be jokes.
01:03:12
Speaker
ah Like with Star Trek Picard season three. Interesting that we keep talking about that. That was definitely like Terry Metallus was like, I'm a big TNG guy. I'm a big Voyager guy in Enterprise. Deep Sea Sign I've watched too. And then they put Deep Sea Sign in the show. I'm like, you don't you don't know what you're doing. You just grab dad's car and you don't know how powerful it is. and You just hit the light pole.
01:03:35
Speaker
Congrats. like That's fine. So you can always tell when people are less familiar with it. and um So this episode, I think just kind of I'll get into it in the in the grades here in a second.
01:03:46
Speaker
But I was just appreciative that I don't know. I was in the middle. I was like, i was appreciative that deep space nine exists and in the minds of people making star Trek. But I also was like aware of the cynicism of like, well, we've, we've referenced everything else.
01:04:01
Speaker
What can we do or where could we go that, that makes sense. And we still get the stuff that drives me nuts where it's like, this is a famous place and it's like going to Disneyland and it's whatever. It's like,
01:04:15
Speaker
No, it's deep like the the elevation of Deep Space Nine in the in the universe actually lowers the the value of Deep Space Nine in the franchise.
01:04:27
Speaker
No, it's the middle child. Deep Space Nine is not some beautiful thing. It was a Cardassian station where they tortured Bajoran slaves and they did terrible things.
01:04:39
Speaker
and And then the Federation came in to help the Bajorans manage it. Like it is not a place to be exalted. It is just a tool to accomplish ends. it is It's a place where people live and made a community. But it's like, if you didn't watch the show, guess what? You're not a part of that community. Stay fuck stay in the fuck away. Get its name out of your mouth.
01:05:00
Speaker
So there was that element too. And I actually think that ah the episode winds up being fine. Like when they it's kind of weird. Like I think about star base 80 as well. It's like, you know, they actually do kind of have some respect for these places they go to in a way that's, that's like, they take their time to establish it as a real place. I'm sorry. I'm worried that my very first favorite line in the grades is going to make you be like, that's the one I hated. I don't know. I can't think of there was a, we'll find out on a second. Let's get into the grades.
01:05:32
Speaker
We'll start with great moments. i have a couple. The Kira Shaxx bit. You know, as much as I was decrying the the booth bit, that game was not for me.
01:05:43
Speaker
This was. Runner of IOU and you, you know, IOU one, you saved me there. It's playing on Kira's history, Shaxx's history.
01:05:54
Speaker
ah Do all Bajorans know each other and do they fight in the Bajoran resistance? Probably not, but it's fine that in this case they kind of did. Here, Shaxx and Kira, um... I just liked it. It was a nice one-upping and it wasn't silly.
01:06:07
Speaker
and It wasn't so silly that it made Kira not a person. And it and I like Shaxx and he's great for the beats that he's in, but this was also like a fun Shaxx beat as well because he's playing kind of vulnerable and then it gets a great payoff when he saves Kira. It's so, it's fantastic.
01:06:28
Speaker
So I thought it was, i was like, this respects the show, but also, It does good lower decks. Yes. These are good things.
01:06:41
Speaker
And then the other one, I loved the idea of Mariner getting to phaser all of her girlfriend's friends. I thought that was clever. no i thought that was the other half of my question that I finally moved around and I'm like realizing what I was going for. But it was the moment when um but Jenny or Jennifer um says, i didn't invite you here to like become someone else that you thought would fit in with my friends. I came here because I wanted you to be you. Yeah.
01:07:09
Speaker
you know And that's that's the thing that like I feel like is also a best track trope too, where it's like, hey, there is something about you as a person. And despite all of your sort of like craziness and whatnot, you hold a command that not many other people do.
01:07:25
Speaker
And these women in this salon crack me up all the time. ah One of the reasons why I got a Rito shirt is because of this moment. it But um yeah, I i really loved that. And I also, the really great moment was Tendi finally just saying, like, screw it.
01:07:47
Speaker
You don't know how to pirate. Let me just bring out my skills. And even though I'm embarrassed by this, this is what's required in order to make sure that we don't go through a wormhole. Which going through the wormhole is not a big deal. So I don't know is why it was like.
01:08:02
Speaker
but they just didn't want to be lost. I know. It's just like, they made it seem like it's a really bad thing if they go to the wormhole. When if you watch the first few seasons of Team C-Side, it's like, oh, they got away. Oh, they went in the wormhole. So it's like, oh, we're going to chase them to the wormhole again. And we come out on the other side and we got to figure out where they went from there. And it's like, it's not that big of a deal.
01:08:22
Speaker
Anyway. I liked the fact that, um, instead of Freeman totally bitching about, you know, having to do this at last minute, not having enough time to prepare that she was like, all right, just buy me some time. And like, she hunkers down and she gets work done. really love that moment. i also love that boy bold Boimler comes back.
01:08:44
Speaker
Um, and that this little change purse. Yeah. Yes. drops um Some I excretus here, though, where he's he's being very he's doing very well at games.
01:08:56
Speaker
You know, that was that yeah an interesting follow up there. Yes, exactly. Talyn is in ah the voice of one of the girls um in a ah certain not to live, but the actress. gar Yeah. yeah um She's one of the voices of Jennifer's posse, I guess, which I thought was really cool.
01:09:15
Speaker
um And then Tendi turning on her syndicate training is what I have for a great moment. So I thought that was a fine sequence. I thought that was okay. This episode, this what I was gonna say This episode and the previous one really helped me figure out, oh there is like a good gestalt for Lower Decks.
01:09:36
Speaker
There is and identity to the show. I don't like the identity, but it's very clear. Like you have, what is the Tendi mask situation? it is.
01:09:48
Speaker
young Rutherford, old Rutherford. So there's the twinning there. Yep. You have ah the booth and the salon are the same thing. It's you're trapped being a person you don't want to be and how much or how many insults are you going to take before you finally snap?
01:10:04
Speaker
And so this show is very much about like, Don't hide who you are, but remember that you are a person who exists in the world and you have to be all these different people. And sometimes that's hard.
01:10:15
Speaker
And also these systems are unfair and against you. And this is the common theme of every episode of Lower Decks. Yes, it is. That is what it is about. That's why I think it also translates to, like, there are different personalities and ways that Star Trek deals with Star Trek. all of those are not necessarily to be thrown away or stepped on, but really appreciated in the right way and utilized properly.
01:10:43
Speaker
It's a weird inversion, though, because to me, that reads as... Forget about Star Trek. What about me? That's what... No, that's what it comes off as. And I think Star Trek traditionally is forget about me. What about Star Trek?
01:10:59
Speaker
yeah What about this world we're trying to create? And Lower Decks is saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, we did that. But what about me? And it's like, no, you have to. It's like what Shaq says. Fighting fascism is a full time job. Utopia. You have to keep working at it.
01:11:13
Speaker
Like it's not something. And this show is not interested in that. This the show assumes that at all times. And it's not about the people getting better or changing. It's about how do you ah embrace who you are?
01:11:26
Speaker
You know, what, who are you trying to be is always, is not even a question they ask. It's just like, be who you are. Like Mariner, when she says, Oh, probably like in the last episode, I'll probably go off and I'll cause a scene and do a ruckus or whatever.
01:11:39
Speaker
That is just a third person's perspective of her that she's accepted for herself. It's, it it's why it bothers me about the Rutherford stuff that whenever he can think of something, it's some Star Trek reference. right But that's kind of why the Tendi stuff is actually as as cartoony as it is, actually is the most dramatic and Star Trek-y and ah good.
01:12:00
Speaker
That's because she's very clear. i don't want to live under the stereotype of what an Orion is.
Identity and Oppressive Systems in Lower Decks
01:12:07
Speaker
We're not all pirates. We're not all these underhanded, devious guys. And then there's this bumbling galoot guy. He's like, we're such a bunch of pirates who are constantly lying.
01:12:15
Speaker
She's being confronted with this issue. And then of course, but what does she have to do at the end? She has to embrace that. So again, that's not who she is, but somehow the show is saying, nope, you can't escape these oppressive systems. At the end of the day, you are who you are.
01:12:28
Speaker
You can only do the best you can within them. don't know. There's something kind of like, small and sad about the way that Lower Decks kind of examines everything. And it always comes down to embrace who you are and, and hang out with your friends.
01:12:42
Speaker
keeping in mind that there's nothing you can do about the world that's telling you who you are. It's like, I don't think that should be the message. It's tough. or it it's Or it's more like, don't stress how the rest views it.
01:12:56
Speaker
Working your way through it. You're completely right. There is that idea of like, you're worrying about it too much. There's nothing you can do about it. Stop worrying. Which is not like like, don't do anything about it. It's not that. It's just don't worry about but it. But it's also like, you cannot completely eliminate fascism when there are people who believe that that is the only way to live. But like, Tendi doesn't want to be...
01:13:22
Speaker
What they're labeling her as. no ancient the solve is She hates all those tropes. But then the solve is that she has to embrace them. Exactly. Again, like I was talking about before, like and ah embracing the past to utilize the present um and and not necessarily judging the past, but like, you know, quietly being with it and holding it and saving it in the last moments of who they were.
01:13:48
Speaker
I just think it's interesting that at the end of the day, every episode points to how mean yeah at the same time there there's something to at the same time like dramatically it is an interesting dramatic thing that maybe just the the resolve and actually what we know what happens with tendy's story this is like unlocking that whole element of that um but at the same time it's that's fine but and then at the same time the mariner stuff with jenny with jennifer Fun idea.
01:14:20
Speaker
Interesting. But again, that's just her sitting back and having to take something until she's finally allowed to snap. And I wonder, again, to to do the improv game thing, why these characters don't have yes and.
Storytelling Techniques in Star Trek
01:14:33
Speaker
It's so rare that they yes and. And it's so strange to me. What do you Star Trek to be no but. Like there's a lot of Star Trek episodes that are basically like a character not wanting to do something.
01:14:44
Speaker
And it's kind of annoying when you go back and watch it now. Like a little more yes ands and through these 26 episode seasons would go a long way. But like here in the improviser comedy headspace, you have a lot of people denying their nature, denying some element.
01:14:59
Speaker
And that's not necessarily to even create dramatic conflict. There's nothing really but who dramatic about that storyline with with Mariner and Jennifer. Oh, there's totally dramatic ah element to that because Mariner is the person that always goes off and she's in these last couple of episodes, especially like you were saying, like, because of how they wrote these stories and how they kind of put Mariner to the side and whatnot.
01:15:24
Speaker
They're also putting aside her sort of roguishness as well. And she's trying to figure out how that fits in her whole thing. And like, can she have a relationship and not be the rogue that kind of pops off the cuff? or does she have to fit in with all the other people that she doesn't necessarily agree with and feels like it's, you know, innocuous, these conversations?
01:15:48
Speaker
Yeah. I would say that like the best dramatic thing about the the Mariner and Jenny storyline is the fact that like she was like, oh, you don't have to be um the people that like these people are like down with.
01:16:03
Speaker
I need you, especially in ah an emergency situation where we're losing oxygen very rapidly. and need you to step up and be the person that you have always been so that everybody can calm the hell down.
01:16:16
Speaker
What I yeah, but what I'm saying is like, who am I if I'm not this rogue? Ed Mariner is only that. You know what mean? Like that doesn't create a space for exploration because it's a half hour. It's a sitcom. What do you want?
Character Dynamics and Constraints
01:16:30
Speaker
But Tendi, she's like, what am I if I'm not an Orion? And it's like, you're an Orion. you know And that's what it comes down to. does Is Rutherford kind of in that same thing? It's kind of like, who am I if I am not this? is a Who am I if I don't know my past? so If I can't remember all this stuff before.
01:16:47
Speaker
and this is And at least with Rutherford, we get, oh, you're a completely different person. You were very selfish. And now you've been reprogrammed literally. It wasn't your own choice, but now it's the power of friendship. So I guess I'm saying like the, it's a Star Trek show to a, to an extent, because in a lot of episodes, you will find a character being limited in some way where we learn something else about them.
01:17:11
Speaker
And frequently, I think too frequently in lower decks, it's just like, if we deny, deny, deny that we can set up bits, you know, if Mariner is no budding the whole salon, then the really tough acts that she's watching that's the comedy she's not she's not denying the circumstance she's going with it but like her as a person and her as a character has to be snarky and comment on these things like she is absolutely yes anding the moment and just like being a part of it but she's also saying like yeah but that's not who i am her her nose and her boundaries are more just protecting like, Hey, I'm not going to just stand up and like talk about, you know, my personal battles in front of people. I don't really know. Yeah. The two episodes that have the same Mariner arc in the, in the reflections one though, we don't see.
01:18:06
Speaker
but The moment before that leads to the success of the booth. She enters it enthusiastically, meets resistance. And then the third beat is simply, and it all works out. We don't see the middle beat that turns it.
01:18:17
Speaker
but yeah You do. Boimler's freak out is supposed to be the mind turning. That's the that's the skip there. yeah Here, I think you're right, though. It does have an arc. where she's like trying her best and all that.
01:18:28
Speaker
yeah I guess what I'm saying is like at some point, one of these characters has to go into something open-hearted. That's what I, and Mariner is not going, like it's always so weird when they're like, whenever Mariner's trying and she rolls down her sleeves, it does weird everybody out. and But sometimes there's what I'm saying is like, sometimes there's comedy and going with being enthusiastic about something.
01:18:49
Speaker
yeah And so I think it was just always the two step of tendies against what she's in and Mariners kind of against what she's in. Yeah. To your point though, she's like, I'm here, aren't I? I'm giving them shot. Yeah. And that's what you try it and and yeah it it it it comes to like, I don't want you to change yourself as a person.
01:19:05
Speaker
I want you to be here to experience this with me. And then i still want you to be yourself because sure you in this context does not mean that you have to change who you are. Right. Yeah.
01:19:16
Speaker
So it's and also what happens in the live action shows. Sorry, I'm thinking about live action shows so much because we're talking about Deep Space Nine. Yeah. What usually happens is you have the the other characters are more interesting.
01:19:27
Speaker
And I think because of the running time and because it's a sitcom and it's a cartoon, usually the supporting characters are not interesting. They're just
Preservation of Quark's Complexity
01:19:34
Speaker
there to set up bits and to provide cheap conflict.
01:19:38
Speaker
So if none of those characters are compelling in their own way, then it's just like you're just stuck with a pretty obvious thing. Now, I kind of think Mask straddles the line of just being Adam Pally, being his screen persona, sure and kind of being an interesting character because of what we learned about them.
01:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, and having his tool and whatnot. Yes, I like the introduction of the tool. I don't think that was a thing that we've established about Orion's before. Not that I remember. I can't remember. Yeah, not that I remember, but um i did I did love that like he was like singing sea shanties and things.
01:20:14
Speaker
I also appreciate he was a different shade of green. Yes, I agrees agree. His was like an Enterprise shade of green. Yeah. and All right, ah great moment. Oh, we already said great moments. Okay, best trick tropes.
01:20:26
Speaker
um I would say ah just another facing yourself type of thing, but learning how to be able to handle your past whilst utilizing it for the the present is basically what I have.
01:20:41
Speaker
I put cork. Cork is great. You could put it Ferengi, but like cork is so The fact that at the end of Deep Space Nine, it just boils down to, which is why if you ever do watch all of Deep Space Nine, he's a little more interesting in the earlier seasons.
01:20:58
Speaker
He's a little more complicated, but they give him... He is interesting through the whole series. He's complicated person to a degree. But over
Favorite Tropes and Episode Callbacks
01:21:06
Speaker
time, you know, characters just kind of If you're on a long-running show, people just become stereotypes of sort of their... So he does just become a schemer, ultimately.
01:21:14
Speaker
But that bit where he doesn't want to talk to the Karama because he's pretending... He's acting like, well, because you supported the Dominion, the Dominion killed my friend. I couldn't remember rewatching it.
01:21:24
Speaker
is that really what happens in the story? i'm like, no, it's the machine. Something about him stealing something. But that was like a genuine moment. And because Armin Shimmerman is such a good actor, like you can believe Quark at that moment. The animation of his face was like, oh shit, okay. But that is a typical Quark thing that he does.
01:21:41
Speaker
And there are times when it's come back around. When they're like, oh, Cork, you never cared about any of this. He's like, you think I didn't care when I watched the Cardassians beating the Bajorans all day? And they come into it like, and he he would always throw in when he's like, we're going to do this. And if you let us advertise on the station's monitors, we'll do this and we'll deliver a proceeds to Bajoran orphans. And like, you know. theyre like He always had a little heart. He always had a little crush on Kira, at least in the early seasons. Right. And so like, and I think there was always something a little interesting in it about him, a little twinkle.
01:22:13
Speaker
And so they captured that here, I think. And I thought that was fine. Yeah. I did have one more best check trope. um It was um and i unintentional espionage.
01:22:26
Speaker
We're basically Tendi and... um ah who Was it Rutherford? Was Tendi with Rutherford? Yeah, Tendi and Rutherford being stuck on the ship with Adam Pally and ah having to make sure that they get back before they get out of the the wormhole or get into the wormhole.
01:22:45
Speaker
thought that was a fun... treachery. And then the other one I had was Bajoran resistance fighting. Nice. As a short, just like the previous relationships you've had with people, you know, we served together on the whatever, like that's how the Starfleet officers usually do it, but it's a nice shortcut. Like we were in the resistance together. It's like, of course they were. i mean, that doesn't it.
01:23:07
Speaker
been the Cardassians for a long time. So that makes a lot of sense. Worststruck tropes. I put small universe problem at the same time. Everybody knows everybody. Mariner knows Kira. And, you know, Boimler knows even about Deep Space Nine. And they're like, oh, they know what it looked like.
01:23:28
Speaker
They have some reference point for being there for real. Rutherford points to an area that says Bajoran food or Bajoran replicators whatever, which is not... Correct. It's the Ripple Mat. You can get whatever you want from where he was.
01:23:45
Speaker
Little mushroomy. I'm kidding. I wasn't screaming about it. um The worst drug trope I have, of just handling money. Like just the idea, like I i thought it was a great ending joke to have Boibler say, yeah, we don't even use money in Starfleet.
01:24:07
Speaker
What? um But at the same time, like, this whole latinum thing that like i feel like it's always a thing where they're like you guys don't have like a commerce system what what yeah it's it was like a weird punch line too because it's like the frangie definitely know that starfleet officers were on that station for many years yeah and uh so it's just yeah revisiting that is is an interesting worst track trip for me And I put, like I put in the last one, just the callbacks. And like I said, they like know everything. They make references to this or that, you know, Mariners.
01:24:42
Speaker
the At the end, the program that they're talking about with Quark's head on Kira's body, like that was an episode. Okay. And it's like, how does... How does Mayor, why does Mariner know about that? Who's that for?
01:24:55
Speaker
Like having more in there is different from like referencing specific episodes and all that, I think. And ah so I just didn't think it necessarily worked. And at the same time, there was such a love and attention to detail at the same time that I can't be that mad about it.
01:25:12
Speaker
There's a
Depiction of Deep Space Nine in Lower Decks
01:25:13
Speaker
theme song at the opening. They made fun of the theme song at the opening, which I felt two ways about because I'm like, again, take, take its name out of your fucking mouth. But at the same time, like, that is funny. It's a funny joke. We need to stall for time. We'll just do the opening where we're just circling the violin.
01:25:28
Speaker
yeah but Yeah, that was exactly the line that I thought you might not like. No, I wasn't. elmo This is a comedy show. That is a funny idea. Like, that's fine. And they set it up at least in a way that's like, i can go with that. Captain Freeman gets something thrown at her at the last minute.
01:25:46
Speaker
I don't know Starfleet would ever do that, but like just accepting for the moment that that's going on. but i mean Freeman saying like, and I need to stall a little bit. That's great. Honestly, that's one of the things where I'm like, that's why I don't think Freeman is a narcissist. like I think because she's like, oh, I have to do a good job. And she just snaps into action. And she's like, you guys stall for me. Well, this was a much more... yeah Last month, I was like, what's going on? Did they forget?
01:26:10
Speaker
Were these season one scripts that they just kind of like finally revised? It was so strange. Because remember, I said, I've come around on Freeman. Freeman's great. And then last week, I'm like, what the... What is this?
01:26:21
Speaker
What?
Cosplayable Characters and Memorable Lines
01:26:23
Speaker
Oh, you're poor. then the ipolar Another little touch I appreciated was the, that the ops, the, the bridge, you see Kira at the beginning.
01:26:32
Speaker
It's mostly Bajorans now, which is great. It's like a nice little touch because Starfleet is helping the Bajorans run the station. That's the setup. So it would make sense that the war is over and some more time has passed. That's largely Bajorans running the station. That's really pretty great.
01:26:47
Speaker
Yeah. And then you'll find out like, why is the baseball there? blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Most cosplayable character or moment? I put Mesk. Oh, yeah, that's a fun one. um I had Doritos shirt because I got it for Christmas. And yeah like, I also really love wearing pajamas. So the line must be drawn. Yeah.
01:27:09
Speaker
Great lines. The first line, the one that we've already referenced, but I don't know. Just circle around and pretend we're in all of the pylons. And then a couple seconds later, just keep circling. ah we We say that a lot in this house. Yeah.
01:27:26
Speaker
Any others? I'm already not liking that they call their hangouts salons. What are you, Hemingway? Which felt very real. I forgot about that one. It's a good Mariner line.
01:27:38
Speaker
um What is the theme tonight? Personal battlefields. Oh, good, because this one's mine. Feels like me at any actor event. I'm not going to lie.
01:27:49
Speaker
um And then when um when they're doing the espionage of trying to get off the ship um and get back to Deep Space Nine and Adam Pally says, wow, she just did that with a wine opener where she tosses their Orion tool and like it like punctures the tooth that like opens the door or something.
01:28:10
Speaker
So great. Now it's time for the line must be drawn here. Great art. um I really liked um the moment when DS9 shut down and they're seeing, um you know, every like, well, it wasn't just DS9. It also affected
Visual Highlights and Actor Performances
01:28:25
Speaker
the Cerritos.
01:28:26
Speaker
And then randomly you just see one of the girls in the salon doing the splits on like two tables and wax from a candle drips on her. She's like, eh, wax.
01:28:37
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know that made me laugh so hard that I also thought it was just such a great visual, but like it wasn't necessarily beautiful, but I just thought it was such a great use of animation for a visual joke.
01:28:50
Speaker
um But then I really, really, really liked when Mariner and Jenny were stunned together in each other's arms. I thought, Oh, that was great. Yeah, I'm gonna go with that. I have to, mine was going to be, but I think that was a nice moment. That's why I liked the ending with that storyline.
01:29:08
Speaker
i They really did a great job recreating Deep Space Nine. Yeah. Like I felt like that is Deep Space Nine. Great. That's unmistakably. Good job, everybody. So but that that was a nice moment. That's the better.
01:29:19
Speaker
That's the lower decks moment we need to highlight. yeah Would this have been a fun holo novel to play out?
01:29:25
Speaker
Maybe the stuff with Tendi and the Orion stuff. ah but You don't think the salon would have been fun to play out? No. To stun all those people at the end? It's every actress in their 20s just trying to put art together in their apartment while drinking cheap Trader Joe's wine.
01:29:42
Speaker
like i love actors. I respect actors. I recognize I am in no way talented enough to stay as an actor, so i stopped doing college. However, as much as I love that, I am of the belief that it's a lot.
01:29:55
Speaker
And like the chest pains with producing, there's a weird emotional weight that happens when you sit and you listen and talk to actors when it goes deeper than motivation and script and all that stuff.
01:30:07
Speaker
yeah and betty Betty Gilpin, who I think is an amazing actor, she wrote a memoir. And I went to a reading of the memoir. Oh, no. And she's she's amazing. So it was a great performance of what she wrote.
01:30:20
Speaker
And what she wrote, I mean, people, i have a fragmented neurotic mind. And sometimes in the podcast, it comes out. Hers was, okay, all the time. Fine. Wow. But hers her energy was so intense.
01:30:36
Speaker
Yeah. And it was like, but felt like i was like, this is four times beyond my capacity to bear. Yeah, I get that. And that's every actor, men and women. And it's just like, I think...
01:30:49
Speaker
That that's the power of it. That's why acting can seem like a magic trick. You are conjuring these forces that are beyond moving you, whatever. Yeah. You're becoming a different person, but you're, you're also imagining a world around you. Right. And then you're trying to make that reality exists in the space that, and yeah.
01:31:07
Speaker
And in the time that you have a lot of it. And for a lot of actors, especially right now, we're just trying to pretend that the lines that we're reading are thoughts that we could actually say out loud.
01:31:23
Speaker
And Star Trek is... it's It exists because the acting is what it is. And the writing, yeah the direction sometimes, but really it's like the combination of like, you need Shakespearean actors or actors who could do Shakespeare to sell writing that sometimes is really on point and sometimes not.
01:31:44
Speaker
And it's that
Comedy Focus in Lower Decks
01:31:45
Speaker
its an alchemy. Yeah. That's why I think Lower Decks always tries to sidestep it being like, that's kind of hard, but so is comedy writing. But most of us are more experienced doing comedy writing. What if we just told jokes?
01:31:58
Speaker
So they go to Deep Space Nine and they they do some bits on my favorite a space station and it it kind of worked out. But what part of this will teach at Starfleet Academy? Um, I put, um, different things you can do on the ship that isn't going to a salon when you're right next to the deep space. Now we should have put now, is this a worse or best truck trip? So we're kind of like going back here because Kristen and I, and many other people have been like, what the hell is going on on strange new worlds with all these candles and
01:32:32
Speaker
Oh, right. Yeah. Okay. So here it's an actual plot device, which I actually really liked. They had candles that consumed oxygen more than a normal candle and life support systems have been knocked out. Is that a worst trick trope or a best trick trope? Because it's actually for the story sake. I think ah for me, when it's got a story point, that's like, I don't know. I don't question that at all.
01:32:52
Speaker
Like, then I'm like, they shouldn't have candles anyway. But since they do, the fact that they have ones that are worse for an oxygen environment. Yeah. That's kind of a best trick trope. Yeah. um I think they'll teach the historical and strategic importance of Deep Space Nine or the and the Dominion War.
01:33:08
Speaker
that is That as well, yeah. yeah i mean That seems pretty obvious, but like what about this particular episode? i think the Karama, that would be another part of that story of like why are we renegotiating?
01:33:22
Speaker
They wouldn't just be part of... like the They wouldn't be one species. It'd be like, now we're trying to reestablish contact with the Gamma Quadrant and some sort of like ah peace or whatever. A lasting peace. So check,
Episode Rating and Praise
01:33:34
Speaker
marry, or kill. Hear all, trust nothing.
01:33:37
Speaker
ah This is another one that's just... This this is a Trek for me. Yeah, it's a Trek. I was expecting a Mary all those years ago when I went to watch it. like, this it better be great because this is a big big lift.
01:33:50
Speaker
It is. And the fact that they had to go back and rewrite it to make sure Mariner even got in at the end, I was like... I don't know, but yeah, I think it's a track. I really think that the the Kira Shaxx runner is it's just it's works.
01:34:04
Speaker
The show does it very well. And I think all the storylines were fine, you know, um and I really think for the Mariner Jennifer storyline, which hadn't gotten in a lot of play.
01:34:15
Speaker
No, it was like, really, that's a good story for Marin, like the way it was. She's used to destroying shit. So like shooting a bunch of room of people. to save their lives as a great Mariners. They're all terrified of her now. And she's like, wait, that's right.
01:34:32
Speaker
um
Upcoming Podcasts and Themes
01:34:33
Speaker
Yeah. So everyone was pretty much on in character. It was a funny episode and satisfying. yeah I'm glad they did it. Yeah. As am I.
01:34:44
Speaker
I'm glad you were on the show this week, Katie. I always tell Katie, like, we'll be short this week. And then somehow look at us. We're at 90 minutes. so But it's not just these 90 minutes you can hear Katie. and You can hear her elsewhere. And where might that be, Katie?
01:34:57
Speaker
Oh, you can hear me in so many places. but you All the places. you A lot of places. so many that I'm like, I need a nap. um You can hear me on the Napping Through Happy Hour podcast that I co-host with my good friend Marie.
01:35:10
Speaker
um You can also hear me on Marvel movie talks every now and then talking about great things that are happening in Marvel and things that are not so great happening in Marvel. um You might be able to also listen in to the Christian Cringe podcast. It's a new one out on Geekscape right now where we go through late 90s, early 2000s Christian entertainment content spanning movies,
01:35:33
Speaker
Music, video games. Is that Jars of Clay? Jars of Clay is. Yeah, that's a Christian band. yeah um You can always tune into the episode where we convinced my husband that he was going on a 90s grunge podcast to talk about Stone Temple Pilots while we diverted it and real helped him realize that Reliant K was actually a Christian band.
01:35:57
Speaker
Oh my goodness. It's a fun episode because... It's wild. Yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. so mean. You can also listen to the episode where we talk to Thomas Tulock, who is one of my good friends, also a director. who Former guest of this show. Oh, yay, great.
01:36:16
Speaker
Yes. um Also was most notably in the movie Hook. um he He helped watch a very terrible movie with Dante Bosco called Extreme Days.
01:36:29
Speaker
I highly don't recommend it, but it is out on YouTube. um But yeah, lots of podcasts coming up. And we also have a ah new show coming up in March called Internet Supreme Court, which I think will be very fun, very funny and very addicting. Well, this is running in in May. So oh so so it's hard it's out now. Look at that. and then tomorrow, go look at your review on Thunderbolts.
01:36:55
Speaker
Yes. this will come out tomorrow. Exactly. ah We're Trek Mary K Pod on social media, trekmerrykillpod.com on the web where you can see all of our standings, treks, marries and kills for lower decks. katie Katie is like a like a no kill shelter for every episode of the episode. I have famously killed. There's like two I think I've killed.
01:37:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's been tough. so yeah I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm ruining your format. No, no, no, no, no not at all. ah You've been a great boon to our format. So next month will be a mathematically perfect redemption.
01:37:30
Speaker
So the return of Peanut Hamper. Yep. Which I think I killed that episode. Oh, yeah. And then ah Crisis Point 2, a sequel to what for a minute was my favorite episode of Lower Decks. And we'll see if sequels, if in TV, sequels are as good as the original.
01:37:50
Speaker
And then this month for May, we're kicking off ah the month called Spring Flings, where we will have... episodes about people falling in love for very short romances.
01:38:03
Speaker
That out next week. And until then, Cam.