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Immersed in Wolf Hudson's Bisexual Aura
2k Plays4 years ago
Follow Wolf Hudson on Instagram at: @wolfhudsonofficial
Wolf on Twitter: @WolfHudsonIsBi
Wolf on Pornhub: https://www.pornhub.com/pornstar/wolf-hudson
You figured us out -- this podcast is just an excuse to talk to our favorite bi porn stars. Can you blame us? Next up is the "king of bisexual porn", Wolf Hudson. We chatted about how porn helped him to discover his own bisexual identity, the struggles of being a "crossover" performer (between the worlds of straight and gay porn) and the benefits of dedicating himself to Bi+ porn specifically, the increasing market for bi porn recently, the persistent and harmful stigma of HIV in the industry, the blurring line between professional and amateur content, all the juicy details about why Wolf enjoys group sex and especially MMF threesomes, and of course how to create a bisexual aura and immerse others in it.
Two Bi Guys is created and hosted by Alex Boyd and Rob Cohen
Logo art by Kaitlin Weinman
Music by Ross Mintzer
Season 2 is executive produced by Rob Cohen and produced by Alex Boyd and Moxie Peng, with support from IFP
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Transcript
Introduction of Wolf Hudson
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Two Bye Guys. I am Rob and I'm here today with an adult performer and content creator. He has been called the king of bisexual porn. We'll see if he likes that title or not. Wolf Hudson, welcome to Two Bye Guys.
00:00:29
Speaker
Hey, man. Thank you for having me. It's nice to meet you. So last year we interviewed Dante Cole and Michael Delray towards the end of the season. So they're also two bisexual porn stars. So I think this is going to be a tradition of interviewing bi male porn stars at the end of every season.
Visibility and Representation of Male Bisexuality
00:00:48
Speaker
In some ways, this whole podcast is my excuse to do that. Well, it's usually, you know, the bi porn guys are the most visible. So it almost seems natural to have us.
00:00:58
Speaker
Wait, but what do you mean by that? You're more visible these days? Because it has been invisible before. Well, in terms of like you're not seeing a lot of high profile or public figures, male in particular, who are
00:01:13
Speaker
bisexual, pansexual or what have you. So you're now seeing more visibility with adult performers. I get messages all the time just saying thank you for being so visible and being Dominican and being so present and we don't see that representation. So if it starts with us, hopefully it goes up to more people.
00:01:34
Speaker
You're right, I do think it's become more visible and it also is why I think that porn is actually very important to the discussion of male bisexuality or all bisexuality because I think like for me and many bi men, porn was actually the way that we discovered or explored attractions to people of the same gender before we were ready to do that in the real world. It's like a safe way to
00:02:03
Speaker
to look into these things and see how we like them. So I think it's so important to the conversation.
Personal Exploration of Bisexuality
00:02:09
Speaker
Before we get deeper into that stuff, what are your pronouns? How do you identify on whatever spectrums you want, whatever labels you use? I identify as he, him. And in terms of labels, I mean, I am bisexual, but I also identify as hetero flexible or hetero romantic.
00:02:30
Speaker
But again, labels for me are very much unique to oneself. I don't want to put labels on anyone. So if someone chooses not to identify with a label, that's cool. If you want to, that's awesome. So that's the way I identify. Cool. And so take us back to when you first realized you might not be straight. When was that? How did you know that? What was that development like?
00:03:00
Speaker
I think that, well, for instance, I never came out of the closet because I was never in. It was more of a, I just did things just to do it. It just didn't seem weird. Like when I started porn, I started in straight porn and it wasn't until one of the female talent told me, did you get porn? Oh, you could be making so much more money doing that. And I hadn't thought about it, but I'm like, well, yeah, well, why not?
00:03:26
Speaker
So it wasn't that weird. And once I tried it, I started to like it. I started to enjoy it, but I didn't enjoy it.
00:03:36
Speaker
fully in the sense that I felt that I was limited, the same way I was limited with just women. And I think over time, it was like, well, why not combine the two? And that's really where I started to realize, oh, okay, I'm not exactly straight.
Discovering Sexual Fulfillment in Bisexual Scenes
00:03:52
Speaker
Interesting. Tell me more about what you mean by limited. Like if you were in one side or the other that you're kind of siloed in there? Yeah, like sexually, physically, you know, you get the pleasure from a woman.
00:04:06
Speaker
You get the pleasure from a man, but you always want to add something else. At least for me, it was like, I wanted to have that experience of unifying both because both are great individually, but together it would be explosive.
00:04:22
Speaker
And so when I finally got the chance to do that, it was like, Oh, well, of course. Yeah, this is right. Interesting. I have actually more questions about that, but I want to save them. Um, so was porn like that, the shoots that you're talking about when you tried doing shooting gay porn, was that the first time you were with men in a sexual way?
00:04:44
Speaker
Correct. Yeah, this was the first time. So I had no clue if it would work or not. For me, I just, I kind of have that sort of philosophy of try everything once. If you don't like it, then don't do it again. And sometimes, sometimes you try it and you don't like it, but maybe it's the way it was made or the way it was presented. So if you try it a different way, oh, it could be pleasurable. But normally if I don't like something, I don't do it. But if I do, then hey,
00:05:12
Speaker
It's actually very similar to what Dante told us last time, that like, you know, trying to make more money doing gay porn opened him up to that. How old were you when that happened? Oh gosh, I was 21. I was gonna say now I'm 36, so I've had a long period to experiment.
00:05:33
Speaker
It's funny because, like, I mean, I wish I had experimented back then. I think I only just started watching some of this kind of porn, like, after that in probably my mid-20s. But I was drawn to this type of porn that actually is like—
00:05:49
Speaker
about what you're talking about sort of an authentic experience and I never knew if it was real or staged but the first kind of gay porn I watched was straight guys going gay or gay for pay like that concept was very hot to me and so you actually lived it like did you shoot that kind of stuff or were you shooting as if you were acting like a gay man or like you had done it before? I never acted
00:06:18
Speaker
either. I had never acted gay
Authenticity in Porn and Industry Stigma
00:06:20
Speaker
and I never acted like a straight guy. For me it was I'm committing to doing an act. Just do it. It's the same way in straight porn. I'm not acting like I'm straight. I'm just being connecting with a person and I think that some people
00:06:38
Speaker
Maybe it's because of their brand. They have to emphasize a certain attitude, a certain personality. For me, it's, I'm giving you myself and this is how I express myself. So when, you know, I've been classified as gay for pay and I think that is suitable only because I'm not gay.
00:06:55
Speaker
But, you know, I don't go into it saying, oh yeah, I'm just going to be this super straight guy and it's going to be good. No, I'm having gay sex. So however you identify outside of the camera, once you're there, you're having gay sex. So shut up, do it and give a performance.
00:07:15
Speaker
Well, and a lot of the scenes you've done and stuff you've talked about is like more about just the actual act and the actual sex as opposed to like creating a storyline around it. Is that like with my content? Yeah. Right. Is that accurate? Do you prefer that to like the sort of storylines and more scripted stuff? Oh, absolutely. I mean, as a performer, one is less work.
00:07:39
Speaker
I don't want to put people through it because a lot of performers are not actors and there's nothing more awkward than to see performers try to act and put them in these situations where it's long, it's exhausting, there's so many takes.
00:07:55
Speaker
And for me, as a porn consumer, I'm not watching the storyline. That's just not for me. That is true for other people and that's great. For me, it's not. And when I shoot porn, I use my content, I don't care for the mechanics of it, the technical aspects of it. And I think when I decided to do this full on,
00:08:15
Speaker
I wanted to show it in its true representation. I didn't want to open up to the camera. I didn't want any acting for the camera. I just wanted people who were into each other to experience this, especially for the performer who was experiencing it for the first time. I wanted them to be completely immersed in this bisexual aura and have it be just about that and not about the camera.
00:08:43
Speaker
Interesting. Okay. I'll have more questions about that later too, but take us back a minute to when you first started. How did you decide to do that? Like what, what led you to, to getting in there? Were you nervous or scared about it? No. What was it like at the beginning? I mean, one is always nervous when they're trying something new and something they haven't done, but I'll tell you this much. Once the camera turned on, it was for me, it was so natural. I've always been an entertainer before porn.
00:09:13
Speaker
I was already doing acting, I was already doing dancing. And so for me, that was an area that was very comforting, that was very natural. So doing porn, although it's not something that I had ever anticipated doing, came very naturally to me because I like performing. And I am an exhibitionist too by nature, so taking off my clothes is like, oh, totally, I'm getting paid for this? Fantastic.
00:09:39
Speaker
Cool. So then, so you did straight porn first, then tried gay porn, liked it, felt comfortable. And then what happened? And then, you know, I did really good on the gay side. I started in New York and moved to San Francisco, made a name for myself for the next couple of years. And then I decided that I wanted to pursue straight porn again, only to find out that once you do gay porn, you can't switch over to straight porn. And that was
00:10:09
Speaker
a big slap in the face. I'm like, wait, what? I didn't do anything wrong. I'm just doing my job. I'm having sex with people. Like, why is this an issue? And the issue was HIV, the stigma of HIV and, you know, gay men having HIV. Oh, I'm going to catch HIV and people not fully understanding what HIV actually is and how it transmits. And, you know, it was a rough
00:10:37
Speaker
journey to go through that. And I went through all these trials and tribulations. I said, I'm not gonna change my name because a lot of guys that do both have different stage names, they hide it. I was like, I'm gonna be as transparent as possible. And I want people to accept me and know that I am coming into this for real. I'm not going to change myself for anyone. And hopefully that sort of transparency would be the beginning of chipping down the wall.
00:11:05
Speaker
But it came at a price to the point where the industry had basically turned their back on me. I wasn't getting hired. There were certain points where like if someone became a trade positive,
00:11:18
Speaker
who later found out that they had done both, I would be completely blacklisted and ostracized. So by 2006, after doing it for 10 years, I felt that there was nothing more I can do. I became jaded. It started feeling more like work and not this fun experience for me. So I said, I'm out.
00:11:39
Speaker
Wow. It's isn't that isn't it kind of crazy? I mean, I know the stigma exists in real life, too. And important, but aren't you getting tested if you're shooting with real producers? That's the irony of it. It's like, right. So what's what's the point of getting tested if the test does not apply equally? Right. Right. The whole point of getting tested is to test
00:12:03
Speaker
for an STI and you're only as good as your last test. So anything can happen
Economic Interests and HIV Stigma
00:12:10
Speaker
in between. And I'm not here to judge what performers are doing off camera, but performers are doing things off camera. Not everyone, of course, but we're holding each other to a standard that listen, we're going to be honorable and we're going to be safe with ourselves and with the people that we're engaging with. So these are the protocols that we're going to take.
00:12:30
Speaker
So to throw me into this, well, it doesn't apply to you. It's like, then you're, what you're saying is testing is irrelevant. Right. We're just going to go with our stereotype, you know, the stereotypes and the stigma. Right. And so, and so to their point is, well, gay porn doesn't test, you know, it's like, well, they use condoms at the time was, it was condoms, but they don't test. I'm like, correct. That is true. But.
00:12:56
Speaker
I'm getting tested regardless to shoot a straight porn scene. So if I am good, then I'm good. But when I get tested the next day, I get my results. If there was anything, I can't shoot. Right. And those tests are pretty accurate, I think. Right. No, they are. So what it comes down to is
00:13:18
Speaker
A lot of it is the stigma and the sort of bigoted feeling that people have in the ignorance, but a lot of it has to do with business. And agents, they only care about the overall and it's making money. And the female talent is their assets. They don't want anything or anyone that they would consider a liability to interfere with their money flow. So they want to cut it at the root of it, not fully understanding
00:13:48
Speaker
What it is they're talking about, they don't understand. If HIV was an issue, you know you have to worry about is the person who's not getting tested. A person who's HIV positive, who's on their medication cannot transmit HIV, period. No matter what you do, but that understanding
00:14:07
Speaker
is either not available in the industry and those that do understand it don't want to accept it as a fact. And I'm also on PrEP and even that is still not a concept that people understand. It's crazy. It's like 99.99% effective or something. Right. So you talk about someone who's HIV positive who can't transmit and you have somebody who's on PrEP. I mean, what are we really talking about here?
00:14:33
Speaker
Do you think that stigma still persists today or has it changed a little bit in the last 10 years? It hasn't changed one single bit. Not a single bit. I mean, I have certainly changed people's views just by having these conversations, but as an overall industry on the straight side, no, it hasn't changed.
Return to Porn and Bisexual Content Creation
00:14:57
Speaker
Wow, that's crazy. Well, but what has changed, which is a good thing, is that it seems like the market for buy porn, and we'll talk about what that really means, is growing in the last few years. And partially thanks to you and the other visible buy porn stars who are making that happen. Thank you.
00:15:22
Speaker
So how did that happen? Like, so you kind of were, were fed up around 2006, took a break. What happened? 2016. Oh, 2016. Oh, so that was pretty recently. So, so then what happened?
00:15:36
Speaker
Well, at that point I was determined I'm not coming back to porn. I was fully retired, which is always funny to say you're retired. And I was pursuing other endeavors. I wanted to be a voiceover actor and I started taking improv and just really like starting from scratch and creating this new life for myself. And around the same time, my mother was diagnosed with cancer and she was battling it in many different forms for a couple of years.
00:16:05
Speaker
to the point where by the time I retired, I was taking care of her. So I took care of her up until her death and you know, I was trying to figure out what exactly I wanted to do because I was going through this grief, but I had no interest in doing anything that was creative. I just mentally wasn't there. So long story short, I started working out. I had no sex drive, but I started working out getting into shape as a form of dealing with my grief.
00:16:32
Speaker
And then finally, you know, I did have a sex drive and I said to myself, why don't I go out and date? That's just, that seems too complicated right now. What can I do to get it quickly? Well, I said, oh, I can just do a couple porn shoots. Well, I don't want to do straight. I don't want to do gay because of the politics. I saw a gay, sorry, bi porn coming into play and I was like, oh, I could do that. Sure. So I hit up the director who was predominantly shooting it and he was like, yeah, let's do it.
00:17:02
Speaker
And so people thought I came back, but I didn't. I was like, no, no, I'm only doing these for fun. Don't try to bug me. If I want to do it, I'll let you know. Which was kind of flattering, too, in that people were like, oh, you're back. And I started doing these. And then long story short, towards the end of 2018, when I came back, I had a couple that I had played with. They said, hey, do you want to shoot content, some bi content? I'm like, yeah, sure. But for me, it was like, yeah, I'll just have fun with them.
00:17:31
Speaker
I don't know what I'm gonna do with this content. And then there was another couple that hit me up too, so I was like, huh. I threw it on Pornhub. Not really thinking much. I had a POV blowjob with a girl. That was crickets. But when I put on the buy stuff, it blew up. The first one just blew up. And I was like, oh, wow, this is crazy. And then they posted the second one, and that one got even bigger response. And I'm like, what's going on here?
00:18:01
Speaker
And then it got to the point where I got the chance to do another one on a set after I finished shooting. And when I posted that one, it got such a massive response. I said, okay, I think I might have something here. Let me try to film a couple of these to actually sell, thinking it's not going to sell, but let me see. And I posted two and it was sounding like hotcakes. I mean, people just couldn't get enough.
00:18:31
Speaker
And I was like, okay, now I'm back.
Breaking Market Assumptions with Bisexual Content
00:18:34
Speaker
Wow. Interesting. So, and is that, do you think different than a while ago, the interest in this kind of porn? Yeah, I mean, seeing the audience being interested, because from my understanding was that bi porn did not sell. Right. A lot of the bi features from back in the day, they always had different
00:18:54
Speaker
genres in a bi movie. So you would have like two bi scenes, a gay scene, a straight scene, and a lesbian scene to complete it so you can market it to different people. So like in the short term it doesn't sell, but in the long term it does. So there was that philosophy that bi porn did not sell at all. But clearly with the response that I was receiving from people, that wasn't the case. If anything, what I noticed was
00:19:19
Speaker
Not only was there an appetite, people were finally happy that they were viewing the by point that I was making in a way that truly reflected how they wanted to watch it, how they wanted to experience it, or how they have been experiencing it. And I think that was the kind of like the nail in the coffin for me to know that, okay, this is something, there are a lot more by people
00:19:48
Speaker
out there and let me try to shoot more of these. But I did not shoot them in a way that was catering to people. I shot it the way it fulfilled me and it fulfilled other people. And the assumption that if it fulfills me, it'll fulfill somebody else.
00:20:04
Speaker
Interesting. I mean, it definitely makes it more authentic, which I think you can tell. Yeah. So these are like sort of, it's reflecting what people's fantasies are or maybe their experiences. Most of the time when you talk about bi-porn, I think most people think of an MMF threesome. Is that, is that sort of essentially what it is or is there more than that, that sort of counts as bi-porn? Well, there's a difference between
00:20:33
Speaker
two guys and a woman in a straight scene and two guys and a woman in a bi scene. So in a bi scene, it's MMF because male, male, and a female is together. But when it's straight, it's MFM. That's the difference. So the same group of people can be considered straight or bi depending on sort of how they're interacting with each other, right? It depends on how they're interacting. So you could say it's bi if they're DP-ing a woman, if there's two cocks.
00:21:03
Speaker
going into a vagina, one could say that is bisexual because what straight man would do that. I personally don't believe that one can discount if they identify as straight and that is a straight act because the focus is on her. You know, the fact that they're touching their dicks is irrelevant because that's not where they're deriving their pleasure.
00:21:25
Speaker
But one could see it as that. And I think for a lot of guys, that sort of content has been a great avenue for them to enjoy that sort of bi-curiosity, because it's not fully bi, it's still straight, but it's just enough to give them a little something.
Fluidity of Sexuality and Personal Exploration
00:21:44
Speaker
right that idea of like sharing something with your buddy is like hot in some way that you don't have to say it's by it's within the balls are touching oh my god oh my god right right right but it's still straight so i can i can i can watch it it's not wrong you know it plays into that whole kind of
00:22:03
Speaker
you know, guilt over the sexuality, you know, and to a large degree, porn is that you have porn where people are watching it to celebrate their own sexuality and you have people that are watching it because they are repressed and this adds to it. So it's a double-edged sword in a lot of ways and I'm not oblivious to that.
00:22:23
Speaker
Right. It's like the safe way to try things out or just sort of see how something might feel. And it's, tell me if you agree with this. I have this theory that like, there's a category of kind of, you, you called yourself hetero flexible sometimes as a label. I think that there's a group of mostly straight men or guys who identify as straight, but are interested in a little bit of exploration. Just, just a little. Yeah.
00:22:48
Speaker
Absolutely. And the same thing with gay men who like to sometimes explore with other women. I think that sexuality is just too damn fluid to confine it. By sexuality, I think there's so many different levels.
00:23:07
Speaker
It's kind of like the Kinsey scale. I think it's probably the most true representation of people. It can just kind of go either way. I think the straight people and gay people are in the minority. And I also fight back against people that say that, oh, there's no such thing as being straight. Everybody's bi. I'm like, no, that's not true. You can't invalidate that the same way you're being invalidated for being yourself. I believe there is that.
00:23:36
Speaker
But I also believe that there are a lot of people who tend to lean a certain way in the traditional way. And they grab onto that because even though they enjoy the same sex, it's not to the same degree as with the opposite sex.
00:23:52
Speaker
I totally agree. I totally agree. I think both ends of the spectrum exist, and I think there's many people somewhere in the middle. I think there's a ton of people close to one side or the other, but not fully there who want to explore. At the end of the day, who cares? Love who you love, have sex with who you want, because people are like, well, I can't do that. I was like, well, if you don't like gay sex, then don't have gay sex. Right.
00:24:18
Speaker
You don't like gay marriage? Don't get gay married. Right. And I also loved what you said about sort of like trying something once and seeing how you like it because I think so many people are kind of afraid of that idea because if you try something once, it makes you gay. Like you cross a line and you can't come back. And so what if it makes you gay? It's like, what are we so scared about? It's like guys that don't enjoy
00:24:43
Speaker
but play with their girl. It's like, oh, that's too gay. It's like, how is it gay for her to play with your butt? What makes it gay is if a man plays with it, you know? It was like, oh, I won't have sex with a trans woman. That's gay. That's a woman. If it was in the physical cis male appearance, then yes, that would be gay. But so what, if it is, what are you so afraid of?
00:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, no, I know. It's funny, I had never tried butt play until I started exploring with men and came out as bi. But it's not based on gender. It's kind of crazy how we categorize it that way. And it's really great. It's something that I'm so glad that I explored, because it's fun and it feels good. But I'm currently on a mission to get my straight friends to try some anal play, mostly with their wives. That's my new mission.
00:25:39
Speaker
You know what? You're doing God's work and I don't believe in God, but you are. I get so many girls, so many women that come to me and it's like, how can I get my guy to get rimmed or get a finger or all these things? And I try to teach them little tricks as best as I can. And for me,
00:25:58
Speaker
Whenever someone is so adamant and so vocal, especially when unprovoked, that to me leads me to believe they want it. They want it so bad. They're trying to sell me something that I wasn't even interested in buying. Yeah, I think so. I just think if everyone tried getting rimmed who's never done it, they would like it. I mean, what's not to like about it? It's like it's indescribable.
00:26:22
Speaker
But here's the thing, some people don't enjoy it. I've been with partners that don't enjoy butt play of any kind and not like they've done it and it just wasn't pleasurable. And that's okay. At least they can say they have done it and they don't like it. Right. And if you've never done it, how do you know? Right. And at least they tried it and nothing terrible is going to happen to you. If you don't like something, you'll realize you don't like it. It's not like you're a different person or something.
00:26:50
Speaker
It might be too ticklish or you get no sensation from it. There's no pleasure. And that's totally fine. I mean, everybody has different sexual appetites, but one has to try it to know if they like it or they don't. Right. Exactly. And repressing your feelings about it, you know, a physical desire, you're limiting yourself to so many good things. Agreed.
00:27:18
Speaker
You mentioned earlier about this sort of magic that can happen in bi-porn or in a threesome, that it's different than just having one or the other. You know, I can't say that I have experienced an MMF threesome in real life yet, although it's something I'm very interested in. But so far, the only times I've been in a group sex situation were with only men. So what, from your experience, like,
00:27:45
Speaker
What is it about that situation that is really unique or different or exciting? For people that haven't experienced it, what do you like about it? For me, I enjoy, first of all, having sex with multiple people. I think it's pleasurable to have all these different personalities in one place and enjoying each other, knowing that everybody's into each other. I think that's really neat. I like that both
00:28:15
Speaker
cis men and cis women bring on different energies that are uniquely male and female. And even if they are non-binary, there's just different energies that come into play that I find appealing. Like I love femininity and masculinity. And sometimes you might have a woman who's
00:28:35
Speaker
Masculine the man who's feminine and I still enjoy that the difference in the energies I enjoy the the feel of a woman's body in a man's body the genitalia is You know, I get to enjoy a pussy in a cock. They're both different, but they're they both bring out something pleasurable and something unique and When I get to share it with someone There's just I don't know. I can't describe it. There's something very
00:29:03
Speaker
Thrilling and I love especially with a woman because it's so taboo for a guy to do that When you see a woman who is not only embracing and she's encouraging it and she's totally turned on by it That to me is such a huge drive. Yeah, because I'm also a pleaser. I love I love satisfying a partner if it turns me on and We can go to town. So seeing that sort of dynamic is is remarkable and I think that
00:29:33
Speaker
Once I discovered that that was a thing for me.
00:29:36
Speaker
I wanted to pursue it in the best way possible and I wanted to hone it in a way that I can sort of be an expert with people who have never tried it because having a threesome is not the easiest thing in the world. You know, you have to cater to people. You have to find the right dynamic where somebody doesn't feel left out where everybody feels included and not excluded. And if you don't know what you're doing, it can get really messy and
00:30:06
Speaker
Because I enjoy it so much, I've trained myself to deal with that and make sure that everybody feels welcome and feel safe and are free to leave their inhibitions behind.
Women Audience in Bisexual Porn
00:30:19
Speaker
I like what you said about getting turned on by women who are turned on by two men together.
00:30:27
Speaker
I was so afraid for so long that if I hooked up with a guy, women wouldn't like that and would think I was gross or something and wouldn't want to be with me. And so one of the best things since coming out has been finding the women who think it's hot. And there's a lot. And there's a lot. There's more than you would think. And some of the best sex I've had with women has been after I came out because the knowledge of that, the shared knowledge,
00:30:57
Speaker
just turn both of us on so much. So I like that. I don't have a question, but do you? No, I was going to mention that the popularity of my bi porn, you would think it'd be primarily from men, but it's actually women. Really? Interesting. Women. Yeah. It's been this sort of phenomenon for me. Like, yeah, there's just so many women that are into it that I've always fantasized about it, but a lot of them don't speak about it.
00:31:27
Speaker
because they don't want to be judged. I mean, women already judge for being sexual as is. Now you include that. And it's just another layer of, you know, negativity. So I would get messages. I still get messages on a daily basis from women who are like, thank you for doing this. I want to try this out. You're the ideal guy. Or I get offers like, oh, I would love for you to join me and my husband or me and my boyfriend.
00:31:53
Speaker
It's you know if men can enjoy two women together Why can't women enjoy it just as much or the same, you know, so even though it was surprising to me to receive that much Praise from women. It wasn't surprising at all. I mean even just from my own personal experiences I've heard so many times women say I watch gay porn. I love gay porn You know, so it really opened up a lot in terms of
00:32:24
Speaker
and really realizing that sexuality and bisexuality is much more prevalent than people think. So on the outside, we view it as not as visible, but it's there. And the numbers don't lie. I mean, I've made a very good living off of Biporn. That's not an accident. That's not, you know, a one-off. This has been a consistent thing. Even during the pandemic where I wasn't shooting,
00:32:52
Speaker
I was literally still making money, if not more than I was before. So you're telling me that, you know, that doesn't exist? Bullshit.
00:33:05
Speaker
That's great. Is the sex you have in your personal life versus when you're shooting, does it feel very different? Like does it satisfy your personal sex drive to shoot porn or how do you separate those things or do you have any energy left to go date when you're shooting a lot? What's that like? In terms of
00:33:27
Speaker
If porn sex is the same or different from my real life sex, it's actually the same because literally the shoots that I do, just at least my bi content that is as real as it's going to get. The only thing that makes it unreal is the fact that there's a camera there. I'm literally
00:33:48
Speaker
hooking up with two performers and we're just so happy to be shooting it and we're going to make money off of it. But there's no difference and then once the camera's off, it's still the same for me. I actually, I appreciate sex so much more now after doing it for so many years because it is a lot of work. It's so hard and
00:34:06
Speaker
Studio porn sex is very unappealing for me in a lot of ways. And so when I decided to start shooting content, I said I have to shoot it the way I enjoy to have it in my personal life. So I'm not gonna fake it. I'm not gonna open up to the camera or anything like that. I just wanna have it. And yes, to answer your other question, I still have a sex drive even after the fact. Because on a studio set,
00:34:35
Speaker
I'm there for a couple of hours and I'm doing these ridiculous positions and taking pictures and doing all this stuff. After that, I am exhausted. But if I have just sex like in my house or in their house, we're literally shooting for like anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour of just real sex.
00:34:54
Speaker
I'm probably still going to be horny right after the fact and that's usually the case. Very few in between where I'm too tired that I don't want to have sex. But I can say the same thing for my personal life where I have sex and I might not want to have sex afterwards or I'm going to be super horny even afterwards.
Impact of OnlyFans and Self-Production
00:35:13
Speaker
Yeah, so for me there's not that much difference between the content that I shoot in and my personal life.
00:35:18
Speaker
It actually kind of leads into the next thing I want to talk about which is like I think I've seen lately a little little bit more of the blurring of this line between professional and amateur porn and like there's more opportunities now for Amateur content to get out there. There's only fans like there's other sites like that. There's make right there's like make love not porn which I've been following lately, which is just
00:35:46
Speaker
geared toward amateur people putting up their videos and, you know, making some money off it. Do you see that line being blurred? Because the way that you're shooting is sort of almost like an amateur aesthetic, but professionally done. I mean, I personally think it's amateur. There's nothing professional about it except setting up the shoot. I mean, I'm literally just setting up a camera off to the side. I don't have any camera people. I don't have
00:36:16
Speaker
big expensive lights or anything like that, this traditional, I mean amateur porn is basically just putting a camera to the side or maybe having one person recording it and just shooting something that's not scripted. That's the porn that I enjoy watching. I much prefer the authenticity of amateur porn because you know that they're doing it for fun.
00:36:36
Speaker
You know, it's like, if anything, you could maybe classify mine as pro-am. Pro-am? I like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's pro-am. But I truly believe it's amateur. And, you know, I've watched amateur scenes by couples who I might not be physically attracted to, but because they're doing this thing that they want to enjoy and they want to express it with the world,
00:37:02
Speaker
super hot. And that's what I wanted to do with my stuff. I don't want, I don't want to ever put a performer and myself in a position where they have to think about what they have to do, where it's uncomfortable. Like I will stop in the middle of a scene if someone is uncomfortable. I'm always literally in real time checking in. Is everything good? Can we keep going? Do anything that'll keep
00:37:27
Speaker
it flowing in a way that's comfortable, I will go far beyond to accomplish that.
00:37:36
Speaker
I'll even keep like mistakes that happen. Like if somebody bumps their head or there's like any sort of banter in between. I keep that because that's real. That happens in real life. And why would you take that away? Right. Right. I found that too with some of the make love not porn that just like how they talk to each other as they're getting ready is like so interesting. And you never get to you never used to get to see stuff like that. And it's it's not only kind of hot, but it's like useful. It's like a good example for people.
00:38:05
Speaker
Like what you know people learn about sex from porn and so why not learn what it's really like and not the fake shit and no and sometimes when it's something's very serious that needs to be cut up I will cut it out if Someone is very adamant. Oh, can you not show that? I'll absolutely cut it out You know, I want to respect that at least right but for the most part, you know if it's fun if it's silly and if it's natural and
00:38:34
Speaker
you keep it. And to kind of get to your point about how the lines are being blurred, I feel like now with the platforms that are available, yeah, anybody can make their own porn, they can make their own business, they don't have to be dependent on
00:38:50
Speaker
the porn industry as itself, you have more liberties to shoot the kind of porn that you want, make the money that you want and not have to struggle to hustle to get the shoots and be confined to only shooting what is expected of you as opposed to something that you want. And I think this with the pandemic and particularly during the lockdown, it really demonstrated that we are the ones who are in charge because as everything else shut down,
00:39:20
Speaker
people can still shoot content like whether they were with a partner or they were by themselves and make money while everybody else were struggling and I'm not saying like I'm happy that they were struggling but it just shows that you know we sort of flipped the script where we said that oh
00:39:38
Speaker
The porn industry and the studios and everybody else, they're in command. They're in charge. And we're at the bottom when in reality, no. The industry runs on us. Yeah, exactly. So that means we can make demands. We can say what we want to do and what we can't. And I'm so grateful that there are these platforms that exist to make that happen. And if it wasn't for this platform, Pornhub, the one that I use,
00:40:00
Speaker
I wouldn't have made this sort of comeback or have made an impact in the bi genre. I mean, literally I owe my success and the success of bisexuality to Pornhub for making it so accessible to such a huge audience. Yeah. And in terms of like how you went about shooting it and also like the money that you then make from it, is it like, is it better this way? Is it like more direct? Do you have more control and everything?
00:40:29
Speaker
Oh my God, I lose money when I shoot for a studio. Oh, really? There's so much that goes into it.
00:40:38
Speaker
I could be shooting a small clip and making residuals as opposed to being on set for hours, just getting a one-time fee. So yeah, and then the cost of like getting a test and doing all these things, for that I am losing money. Yes, I still have to get a test, but I'm going to make my money back 10 times over with my own content. Like right now,
00:41:03
Speaker
Yeah, I don't have to worry about a studio. I'm not shooting for any studio whatsoever. And that liberty is, I think, the most rewarding aspect because I'm doing what I want, I'm not jaded, and I determine my own destiny as opposed to before.
00:41:21
Speaker
this sort of teetering between straight and gay and dealing with the politics that just kind of drove me insane. And now I'm like, well, you don't want to hire me. That's fine. Cause I'm shooting my content with people who actually want to have sex with me and I'm going to have this experience and I'm going to make a ton of money and so are they. So you don't want to hire me by all means you're missing out.
00:41:42
Speaker
I think a lot of, there's more people these days who want to kind of dip their toes into amateur porn, either just for fun, it's exhibitionism, maybe you make a little bit of money. I will admit like it has crossed my mind lately, but I have not yet dipped my toes in, but I'm thinking
Intersection of Race and Sexuality in Porn
00:42:02
Speaker
about it. But like, do you have advice for those people who don't necessarily want to make it a career, but are interested in trying that out?
00:42:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, before I get into that, you can't really predict the success that you're about to have. So you have to go into it with expecting that nothing's going to happen, but also something could happen. And if you're not prepared for it, it can be overwhelming. So expect the unexpected.
00:42:31
Speaker
And if you're deciding to do it, I just say be as authentic as possible. Shoot the thing that actually interests you as opposed to shooting what you think people are going to enjoy. People can tell when you're into it or not. People know when you're just doing it for the work. Why not shoot the thing that actually fulfills you? If you just want to shoot anal, then just shoot anal.
00:42:56
Speaker
And if every time, anytime in between, you want to shoot something else because it's fun, then shoot it. But no.
00:43:04
Speaker
what it is that you want and have a game plan about what exactly do you want to get from this, whether it's sex, just the thrill of showing yourself off or making money. Be prepared, expect the worst, because it's not always going to be pretty. It is a lot of work. So understand that, you know, it comes with a lot of responsibility, but it can be the most thrilling thing if you make it to be like you determine
00:43:32
Speaker
What that is, but at the end of it be true to yourself and do the things that you want to do
00:43:43
Speaker
So you mentioned earlier and I can see how like there's a stigma in the industry of bisexuality that makes it more difficult. Have you also encountered racism in the industry and how has your race affected your career? Does it intersect with your bisexual identity also? I don't experience racism on the surface because I am Caucasian, but I'm mixed. So one wouldn't automatically assume
00:44:13
Speaker
that I am something other. I mean if you look at my face you can clearly see that something else is going on.
00:44:20
Speaker
but most people just look at the color of my skin. So I don't experience racism in the way someone who's darker than me would. Like for instance, no one ever second guesses hiring Wolf Hudson for a scene and saying, oh, you know, we have to meet a quota with having someone of color. That's never been a thing for me. I experienced more bigotry because of my sexuality.
00:44:45
Speaker
But I have for sure experienced it in different doses of seeing it from the eye of, oh, I can actually hear what people really think, the things that they wouldn't say to a person of color, to their face. And I've heard the disgusting nature of that, people saying, oh, I won't have sex with a black man because they carry diseases or it's just not my thing. I'm like, what the hell does that mean?
00:45:12
Speaker
So and so, I will never do an interracial scene. I'm like, oh, really? So I've kept my mouth shut until the very end of the shoot. I was like, well, you just did your first interracial scene. What are you talking about? Well, you realize I'm part black. Oh, is that Paul? I was like, well, you're different. How so? How am I different? But they're looking at skin. And I've recognized this and
00:45:39
Speaker
I've made it an issue within the past couple of years since I've been back to be vocal about that bullshit. I don't tolerate it. I've never tolerated it, but I will never move forward now enabling it. And I never make emphasis of the fact that I'm shooting with people of color. You can see from the thumbnail I'm shooting with someone of color. Why do I need to...
00:46:06
Speaker
you know, verbally express it. Why do I need to put BBC, Ebony, and all this other stuff when you can clearly see, oh, I'm colorblind. No, you're not. So that's one of my ways of like, I'm not going to objectify and glorify. Yes, these are black people. I enjoy having sex with black people, but I'm not going to fetishize that they're black people. I'm not gonna put the focus that they're black. You can see that it's black. Now,
00:46:32
Speaker
And now that you know that there are black people in this scene or a brown person, do you want to enjoy it? Because I guarantee you the scene that we just did was hot. If it wasn't hot, I wouldn't put it out. Did you ever find your bisexuality kind of opened you up to all types of experiences and like you see? No, I mean, you always were open to everything.
00:46:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I come from a multiracial family. I mean, I have siblings who are darker, like a lot darker than me and aunts and cousins and whatnot. We all, being Dominican, we're all a different mix. So for me, that's what I grew up with. So it's not weird to, it's not something that anyone puts emphasis on.
00:47:17
Speaker
And so having sex with different races and different cultures, people of different cultures and creeds, it's not a big deal for me for me. It's like, well, am I attracted to that person? Are they cool? Do we have chemistry? Okay, let's do it. You know what I mean? So when people make such emphasis on it, like why it's like, how
00:47:41
Speaker
who happens to be black, their blackness is beautiful and they're a beautiful person that I want to enjoy myself with. You know what I mean? Right. I totally know what you mean because I think like sometimes in porn and in life people put these labels on everything when really like it's so things are so similar. I mean different people are different and unique and everyone is unique but like
00:48:05
Speaker
You know, when I started hooking up with men and women, the thing that shocked me was like, oh, this is pretty similar. Like, it's different because it's a different person, but there's nothing fundamentally different about this. And like, you know, I grew up in a very white town, so my childhood was all experiences with white women, basically, cis white women.
00:48:27
Speaker
but as i expanded that and was with other people it was the same thing it was less of a big realization because i didn't imagine it would be so different but but when i'm with people of of different races or backgrounds like it's the same thing they're people no white no white person is the same no white person is the same it's always
00:48:47
Speaker
a different personality, a different experience. So why would you deny yourself of that? Oh, it's not my preference. That's not a thing. One does not have a preference. That is something that you acquire in time because you are not born with a preference. You are not born racist. You learn to be that. The same way that you are taught and programmed, you can deprogram yourself from that.
Embracing Individualism and Conclusion
00:49:11
Speaker
It's not that hard. You have to want it.
00:49:14
Speaker
And I think it's the same way we're programmed about gender, to imagine that gender is so different and these categories are fixed and it's a very different thing. No, like people are different because people are different, but gender is very fluid also. You know, I think that the powers that be are the ones that have always controlled people's way of life and
00:49:40
Speaker
and the people that follow it don't realize that it's all a fucking game. It's all a game. It's all an illusion. Once you see the man behind the curtain, then you realize, wait a minute, this is all bullshit. I saw it at a very young age. We're like, wait a minute. We're all just like agreeing to all this stuff. Like we're agreeing to money and we're agreeing to like wearing these clothes. Like this is just bullshit.
00:50:06
Speaker
And what I've realized over time is that not everybody thinks that way. And so the fact that I don't subscribe to the convention, the fact that I am able to do that, people look up to it. And then there are people who are like, well, how dare you do what everything that we've been told we can't do. Who do you think you are? And it's like, you know who I am? I'm my own person. I'm an individual.
00:50:31
Speaker
Sorry that you're a slave to conformity. Come to my side. Trust me, it's beautiful. Yeah, the water is fine.
00:50:39
Speaker
Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Well, it's great to have you here. I think that's a nice place to stop. Thank you for talking about this stuff. I think so many by guys and women and other by people are watching this stuff and thinking about it, and it's nice to talk about it. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having this platform where people can listen and get some insight into it. I really appreciate you for that.
00:51:02
Speaker
Thank you. Well, keep doing what you're doing and keep paving the way for my porn. I'll be watching. I will. Thank you. Cool. Thanks, Wolf.
00:51:13
Speaker
Two Bye Guys is created and hosted by Alex Boyd and me, Rob Cohen. Our logo art was designed by Caitlin Weinman, and our music was composed and created by Ross Mintzer. Season 2 is executive produced and edited by me, Rob Cohen, and produced by Alex Boyd and Moxie Pung, with support from IFP. Thanks for listening to Two Bye Guys.