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Episode 26: Lee lets Tracey drive the new car
45 Plays6 months ago
Lee from the Unofficial Universal Orlando Podcast joins us this week. We discuss healthcare, being the parent of a trans child, fathers, and more!
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Transcript
Friendly Reunion & Past Meet-ups
00:00:04
Speaker
Shady, dooby, dandy, dandy, dandy, dandy, dandy,
00:00:15
Speaker
dandy How are you guys? Anyway, hello, Ian. It has been, I can't even remember the fucking last time I spoke to you, dude. I know, dude. We haven't done anything in a while, like face to face, or at least nothing like us. I think the last time I saw you was what? December 2023? Probably. Right. Yeah. So I helped Jillian do the scavenger hunt too for that, for the last thing you guys did before that. Yeah, because we did the big meet up at the Christmas tree, wasn't it? I think you were there. Oh no, didn't you ride E.T. with us? Oh, you were over there. Yes.
00:00:56
Speaker
I met you guys over there and then I did some, I was like in and out for you guys to strip that time because I was running all over the place. It happens. Hey kids, welcome to toxic masculinity with Ian Stewart. This week we have our friend Lee with us. Guys, what's going on? Good. Hi, I'm good. Yeah, it's Friday night. We're chilling out, talking about stuff. What's better than that? There's beer and it's Friday. I'm good. Yes, I am drinking Guinness. so You have an actual beer. I have an actual beer. Holy shit. It's been like two episodes.
00:01:26
Speaker
o I can tell you an interesting story for when we were last at Universal about Guinness.
Funny Guinness Incident
00:01:30
Speaker
I don't know whether you've heard this, Ian. Actually, I know Stuart has. We went to Finnegan's and Tracy ordered a Guinness and they brought it out and it was the flattest Guinness you'd ever seen. And he handed it to her and she literally took it on and turned around and went, what the fuck's that? i have a i have a I have a theory there, right? Because when when we were over, not that long after use,
00:01:53
Speaker
last year, we spent, we did stay and scream in Finnegan's and we drank, I think seven rounds of Guinness. It was a lot. But the trick is, send the Irishman to stand at the bar and watch them pour it.
00:02:11
Speaker
yeah talking wo like yeah Because if it had to come out flat, I would have been fuck off. That's my shot. Yeah. So, again, this is a no go. No. All right, Lee, let's start with the punishing question that we started off with.
Masculinity as a Social Construct
00:02:27
Speaker
What does masculinity mean to you? You know, because I knew this episode was happening at some point. Stuart's been pestering me for a long time. And I said, I've been reciting it over. Like, what would I ah sat here now? What would I say? And it's such an obviously I've listened to every episode you guys have done. So I've listened to everybody else's episodes. um Everyone else's answers to this question. And it is. I don't think masculinity actually exists anymore.
00:02:57
Speaker
Because masculinity, for me, is a social construct. If you go back 20 or 30 years, I don't actually
Evolving Gender Roles
00:03:06
Speaker
know how old you are. So I'm not going to offend you by going, Stuart, you're about my age. You go back to our childhood, and masculinity was. So I grew up in a very stereotypical
00:03:21
Speaker
1970s household where my mum stayed at home and looked after me and was the one that did all the cooking and the cleaning and the shopping. And my dad went to work and he came home and he expected his tea on the table, waiting for walking in the door. And then he would sit in the living room and watch spot or he'd go at the pub. And that was that that very typical sort of husband and wife thing where the wife was in the kitchen doing all the stuff and my dad was and that's just the way it was.
00:03:48
Speaker
um And that's what masculinity, I guess, at that point was. Now it's like, is this such, like, I don't actually know. I think it's actually easier to describe what feminism, like what, is that right? Not feminism, but you know what I mean. What's the opposite but of masculinity? Femininity. Femininity. Yeah, there's the word. Yes. I think it's easier to describe what that is than to describe what masculinity is. I think masculinity is a social construct. It is what But surely if masculinity is a social construct, so is femininity, why do you find femininity easier to describe?
Personal Gender Identity Stories
00:04:25
Speaker
Also wouldn't masculinity be just be the opposite? Possibly. Don't ask me all these delving questions. Make me clarify my statements. who We are, that's the point. That's how we have a competition. so Do you think that maybe it's because
00:04:44
Speaker
you're looking at femininity from an objective point of view and it's harder to make an objective view of masculinity because you're in it, so to speak.
00:04:56
Speaker
i think women
00:04:59
Speaker
How do I do this without saying I don't I need to be very careful what I say here because I don't want to lose my own podcast. I get cancelled at this point. I mean, it is the subheading of this. You know that your wife that we all very well know to kill you in your sleep. Well, that's very true. A lot of like a lot of women like to be feminine.
00:05:22
Speaker
And that's not because it's, ah I don't think that's necessarily from a social standpoint, women like to wear makeup and look pretty and not just because it's expected of them, but because they like it and to feel feminine. Whereas like, ah what's the opposite of that from a man? A man like Ian, I suppose it's you really, isn't it?
00:05:42
Speaker
and i saw like i being so yeah like that the opposite of that i guess isn't it I guess. I mean, I don't know. do you Do you think maybe it's because it's easier for you to spot like feminine traits and as opposed to like a general thing? Like, do you see either war as like a combination of traits? Yeah. No, it's weird. This is interesting.
00:06:09
Speaker
Like masculinity is more what is expected of a man, rather than what it is nowadays, ah going back to men, might like yeah ah the whole hunter-gatherer.
00:06:21
Speaker
e In a general sense, but that doesn't mean it's what it is to you personally to me. I don't think it exists anymore so you sin We've had Tracy on the show we've talked about our youngest Transitioning at this point and going from female to male and I had this conversation so Tracy went to Korea for three months last year and left me and our youngest together, which I we haven't had the best relationship for most of our lives. So Tracy was worried leaving us in the house together for three months expecting someone to kill someone else. And honestly, we had the best three months we have ever had in our lives and came through that. That's awesome. So what you're saying is the issue between you and and your youngest is Tracy. I mean, I don't want to say that. That's what Tracy was To be fair, she said, I hope when I come back that your relationship is still the same. Cause then if it isn't, it is me. Oh shit. So she was expecting it. I think, and I think it's more so that you guys got forced to spend time together. Probably. yeah and i see It's like exposure therapy, but getting slammed, like forced into a cell together to hang out.
00:07:37
Speaker
Not just that, but do you remember growing up, right? If you think back to when you were a kid, if it was you and one friend hanging out, it was always bliss and easy. Because you go, you say, do you want to do this? Yes or no. And you move on and you do your thing. And hanging out is easy between two people. Once you put a third person into the mix or more, whatever it is, that's where in the the social that's where you get social hierarchy. That's where you get the Yes. The argument, do you know what I mean? We don't want to do what you want to do. And then you feel like there's they' that they just happen to not want to do that. But you feel like they're ganging up on you. Yes. And that that's kind of where that... maybe So maybe it's there's a little bit of that with 3 is living under the same house. Maybe.
00:08:26
Speaker
They were away from a lot of the stuff that had been causing them stress at that point. So all the shit that went on at uni last year, they were home and away from all of that. So they were much more relaxed because they weren't dealing with that. um And then I'd done a lot of soul searching inside of relationships that they'd had previously and realised how much of a role they played in those relationships rather than always blaming the others.
00:08:54
Speaker
Um, but the, going back to like, we were at home, we'd talk a lot. And then when they were like talking about transition, I was like, I don't, and it wasn't coming from a like, I'm questioning it. It was more like, I'm interested. I don't understand. Cause it's like, um, anybody listening, please, I'm doing this from a point of view. Like you guys talk about it all the time of like, the only way you learn is by asking questions. absolutely So it's, I don't understand how someone can feel.
00:09:23
Speaker
like their agenda in the wrong body? Because how do you know what it, and again, I'm please i'm not anybody, but it's like, how do you understand, like Ian, you you know you're a man, but how do you know what that feels like? Well, we've been asked that before. And to me, I never questioned it. Like, this is just my body. This is who I am. I don't feel uncomfortable. It doesn't feel wrong to me. I spent a lot of years feeling wrong, but it was trying to fit into different things. And this is just where I landed. It's just who I am.
00:09:51
Speaker
That's it. I know you're trying to like cover yourself, but I think the thing that you're discussing is healthy because it's your child and you're trying to understand your child. I don't think i don't think that that is anything that is going to be offensive to anybody by because you're asking. You're trying to understand your child yeah because you care. If you didn't care, you would just tell them that they're doing the wrong thing and they can't do that. You know what I mean?
00:10:13
Speaker
um And I think if like Stuart and I have talked about it too, like how do you approach this kind of stuff? I think if it's just the way you approach, if you approach and people understand that you care and you're not trying to like belittle them, you just want to understand, they'll they'll answer you. And it's from a place of honesty and from yeah not from trying to take the piss. So I don't think you need to cover your ass as much as you feel like you do. What you're describing is healthy because you're trying to understand your kids so you can love your kid fully and support them.
00:10:42
Speaker
and understand why they're doing what they're doing. yes yeah I have no I have no it's funny. So we thought our oldest for the longest time was gay. I have no issue with that. Right. But it's funny that him and his best friend used to come round our house.
00:10:56
Speaker
And they'd be like joking on, you know, as you would get, oh, Tom and I are just, you know, and like holding hands and kissing. And we were like, all right. And and his friend Tom was like, so you wouldn't be bothered if we were gay? And we were like, well, no, he's like, seriously. So if I went home and told my and did this in front of my mother, she would go crazy. And I'm just like,
00:11:17
Speaker
What do you want so this is my thing like a lot of people don't agree with it right gay or transgender whatever it might be right whether you agree with it or not what difference does it can make to you it does exactly that's what i don't get just shut the like obviously you guys are on tiktok and you see that it's the toxic ones that are preaching the toxic side of transgender or gay or whatever it
Transgender Representation in Media
00:11:40
Speaker
might be. It's the toxic ones that get the most volume, unfortunately. But then it gives everybody, everyone else who's going through the same thing, the same shit because they get judged by those people. So I see it as a vicious cycle right now because you've got one group that's blaming trans people for this and that and amplifying the trans community.
00:12:03
Speaker
You got the trans people that are just trying to live their lives being like, just leave me the fuck alone. And then you got the people that are extreme and some of them are probably doing it for attention, which I don't like to say out loud, but it's probably true. There's a few. There's there people have egos in every group. It doesn't matter. Exactly. There's assholes in every group. But the problem is those people are not necessarily the loudest, but they're usually the the most farthest from what normal it like quote unquote normal is for that community so they get brought forth by the people trying as as examples by the people trying to talk about how this group of people is bad so it becomes a cycle this vicious cycle and the people in the middle of it all are just trying to live their lives and they just want to be left alone they just want to do their thing
00:12:47
Speaker
And i mean i'm not part of that community so i mean i'm speaking a little out of turn here and i apologize to anybody's listening if you think i have that wrong you would know better than me if you're in the community but that's how it feels because you know there's like right wing trans people that are like talking like against trans people and stuff and i'm like this is ridiculous.
00:13:07
Speaker
Like just cut shit. Just stop talking about it. Just leave it alone. Like the equivalent is, um, and again, you know, I'm going to say this with a caveat. People who preach about religion in the the ones that stand on the high street and preach about it. They're the ones that give everyone else, you know, the people who are just living their life through their religion. And then it's the ones shouting about a knock going around knocking on people's doors. There's the one that give everyone else just trying to live their lives, a bad rep because of trying to convert whatever, and not comforts, maybe not the right word, but you know what I mean? Yeah, can condemn, convert either way. They're trying to like tell you, but um it happens all the time. The extremes on either end are always the loudest and everybody else in the middle are always just trying to live their lives and be left alone. like
00:13:56
Speaker
I have no problem I don't as long as you're not hurting anybody causing problems for anybody else I don't really give a shit what you know and if you're if you're an asshole I'll tell you you're an asshole if you're not an asshole then we can be friends our youngest Finn had a friend called Robbie who was um was gay but he was very flamboyantly so.
00:14:17
Speaker
and used to come round two hours quite a bit after school because his parents were ah abjectly disgusted by it. And so he couldn't be who he wanted to be at home.
00:14:32
Speaker
And it's funny, ah this i've been I've been thinking about this tonight quite a bit, and it's funny how, Stuart, I don't know what it's like in Ireland, but I guess it's very similar to the UK. Like, I wish, I wish
Identity Openness: US vs UK
00:14:45
Speaker
this is going to go weird because America's a fucking cesspit, as we all know, but, you know... At times, yes. It's funny from... It's very soon. But no, like, you guys have talked about it as well, like, as individuals,
00:15:02
Speaker
my best friends live in the US. i would say My closest friends live in the US, but as a country mess. But I wish, like even though a lot of people, you know transgender or gay or whatever minorities, whatever it might be, are abused and and singled out, whatever it might be, they still live their lives. They don't give a fuck. Do you know what I mean? They can't. You have to be who you are. You can't. i mean and it's not the same over here like we try and hide it a little bit whereas Americans are like i'm gonna get persecuted for it but i don't give a shit i'm gonna be who i want to be some of them like there are people that hide it but yeah i think florida seems to be one of those states where you see a lot of people like this is who i am and if you don't like it tough shit well you come to orlando a lot orlando like lights up the city and for pride month and rainbows so i mean orlando's different than florida
00:15:53
Speaker
but I mean Belfast lights up the city hall for Pride Month, you know it's fine. um But do you think that is the that thing about trying to keep it not really hidden, I don't think a hidden is the right word. No, but it's not on the surface. Do you think it's the British Reserve? Possibly. Yeah. When somebody cuts in line, you're fucking raging, but you don't actually say anything. Where an American would go, hey buddy, get the fuck out of the line.
00:16:24
Speaker
create some good iceson Hey guys, what are you doing? I think that's quite lively. I think I told this story on UUP last week. Ian, funnily enough, we were talking about beforehand when we wrote ET. There was like a group of about, what, 40 others riding ET that morning. And there was three or four of us at the back got split up by ah an American family. It's like a dad, their mother, and their child was maybe 10. And I just tapped the guy on the shoulder and I was like, excuse me, do you mind if we just jump through with our friends? He turned round, he looked me up and down and went, fuck you.
00:16:56
Speaker
Yep. Listen, I'm going to, I'm going to give some, I'm going to give some advice. We always talk about how you should have female friends that you don't want to fuck. You should have gay friends too, because if you're trying to go out and you have a gay friend, nobody will be more honest with how shitty or good you look than your gay friend.
00:17:16
Speaker
Okay. And also, they're just ah like most of my gay friends are so like the most awesome and fun people like Nene is a drag queen and super flamboyant. The makeup is so on point when we go to the parks. It's fucking amazing. But I mean, he is so fun. <unk> He's just I've never seen a human being with so much energy. Nene will land here after a red eye flight, drop his shit off at the hotel and go directly to a park without sleeping.
00:17:43
Speaker
And that's why no one recognizes Ian in the past because he likes to hang out with people that take the spotlight away from him. That's fine with me. But I mean, you should have gay friends too. You should be cultured. And the only way to be cultured is to talk and and talk to people and meet people. Absolutely. With all sorts of people.
00:17:59
Speaker
My horizons have been broadened so much from coming to Orlando, from so starting my part, by the way, I'm not trying to plug it by them, just because it's relevant. but yeah and will get on trigger and But through the podcast having so many US friends that my horizons, I lived a very sheltered, I've literally, listening to you two more than anything, even Stuart, who literally lives like a 40 minute plane ride away, how sheltered my life was growing up.
00:18:26
Speaker
And then you talk to people getting pulled out of bedroom windows at two o'clock in the morning and getting chased down the back streets with knives and Stuart being like, show me your gun there, will you mate?
00:18:39
Speaker
it's just it's it real It makes me realise how sheltered my upbringing has been. that And that's not necessarily a bad thing. no You and I were talking about that and I said it's not a bad thing. It's just a different way of coming up. like What do you think now as you've been an adult and heard things from Stuart and I and other people and seen more things? have you Has your shelter been peeled back a little bit more? like How do you feel about life now? oh Without a doubt. like I'm not um fully aware that the world is an unpleasant place.
00:19:10
Speaker
But I still think I live in a very sheltered life. It's funny, again, talking about the whole American thing. I was talking to a good friend of ours, Jillian, a couple of weeks ago. And because of the podcast again, plug. No, I'm kidding. Tons of people have asked, when are you just going to move over? And I'm like, do you know what? The one thing that scares the shit out of me that I would never move to America for?
00:19:39
Speaker
your health system scares the shit out of me.
US Healthcare System
00:19:42
Speaker
I thought you were going to go all the fucking guns, but no, no, no. That's kind of the health system, all right? Like it's pretty healthy to get shot. It's all right. The way you do your taxes, how your health system is of like paying a fortune for insurance, but then it not even covering everything. And I was talking to Gillian who has health issues of her own and so does her son.
00:20:04
Speaker
as an american yes i ask you this question then he and and see if you respond the same way she does as an american. How are you not freaking out every second of every day.
00:20:16
Speaker
I, oh so personally for me, I have so much trauma in my past that I run at high levels all the time. It's actually my trauma response. So it's fine to me. I don't like it. I do think, um, I don't have many conspiracy theories, but one of the small ones I have is I think they keep the VA hospital underfunded specifically because imagine if this entire country saw socialized medicine actually work.
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah. Without too many complaints and stuff, like if they actually saw it work. And the other thing is um the messaging here is really good at taking people that are not media literate, which is a lot, a lot of people, unfortunately, in this country. Not everybody, but a lot. And they tend to make them do things that are against their best interests. Like I don't give a fuck about insurance companies. They're middlemen that tell me what I can and can't do with my health without a health professional present.
00:21:08
Speaker
My doctor could say i need this in my and and the insurance company who has no medical professional can go night out. Like how does, and then I'm, I'm paying them for my healthcare and I can't decide how I use the money I gave them already. And then yeah people freak out and they're like, well, I don't want to pay for somebody else's medical problems. I'm like, how do you think insurance works? You're just paying extra because there's a middleman now. And I, I understand people are untrusting of the government. I get all that.
00:21:39
Speaker
Yeah, but they're absolutely fine with them having the largest stand in military on the phone. It's just there is a point where so i listen is paid for by socialists I listen to a lot of debates and there is a point to where people just without thinking just trust things that are third party like you get in your car, you turn the key, you like you you you know, it's probably not going to explode.
00:22:02
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah. Like you hit your brakes in your car, it's probably going to stop unless you're negligent to your vehicle maintenance. You know what I mean? You believe and trust in third party things all the time, all day long. So right people just don't think things through. And especially right now, everybody's just so like angry about every little thing. The problem is, you have been fed alive for so long.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah. And there's there's some people that, the loudest people are the are the ones that are saying the dumb shit. It worries me that having since we came over to the States for the for the first time, seeing that trend of we're not a million miles away behind the US in a lot of things.
NHS Future Concerns
00:22:44
Speaker
And you can already start to see that the NHS is on its arse. And so looking in the industry I'm in, looking at the dental industry,
00:22:53
Speaker
but' see I don't know why it's like an island at the moment, but you cannot get you cannot get an NHS dentist now. Oh, well, you can hear you. Yeah, it's a struggle. Tracy doesn't have a dentist because there are none taking on in the area. They'll all take you on privately. And that's the way it's going. Yeah. And I feel that in five or 10 years time, we'll be private health funded as well. And it scares the crap out of me. um I'm not sure I think if the Tories had to get in again, perhaps, but I'm confident that the new labor government are going to make firm inroads in this way. I mean, they they they were the government that created the fucking thing in the first place. That's true. For you guys, too, like ah this is not my belief, but just just so you guys, I'm sure you guys have both heard this, but Americans worry because they hear about all these stories about socialized medicine. Then you, oh, it's free, but I got to wait like nine months to get this or that. And I'm like, doesn't have to be that way. you know
00:23:48
Speaker
yeah You wait. Sometimes you wait, okay? You only wait if you can wait. If you've got a knife sticking out of your fucking head, but I wait here, but I wait here with insurance. So like, what the fuck? Well, yeah, your GPs are essentially fucking receptionists, but so I will do a different person. some of like my My PCP is great. My GP is awesome. Sorry. i can tell you I can tell you firsthand how it works at the moment. So, um, my mother was diagnosed with lung cancer in June last year.
00:24:20
Speaker
um and needed to have part of her lung removed. So they did all the tests and blah, blah, blah. She went, so she was diagnosed in June. She had it removed in October. She was then told this year when was that like March or April that it had spread to her kidney. She needed a kidney removed. She had that removed three weeks ago. So, you know, it's fairly swift to be fair. Yeah. And free. And free.
00:24:45
Speaker
But like um you're not sitting going, can I afford to have? like even that it's like I've spoken to again, I'll bring Gillian up or other people in the US where you're paying a fortune for your medical insurance, yet you still can't get a doctor's appointment. No. And it's like if I'm paying that much for mine, I expect to be it's like you should be in a thing we all know. If I'm paying for express passes, I want to get to the front of the line. Yeah, exactly. Well, I know I'm in a slightly different I'm in a slightly different part of the country, Lee, and but If I phone my doctor in the morning, I phone for a doctor in the morning between eight and half nine, the doctor phones me back that day. Yeah, it's not like that here. I can guarantee you that. If I got Tracey up here now, she'd be like, I would... one point There's only 1.7 million of us. and sixty two millennium There's of you. There's 300 something million of us.
00:25:36
Speaker
Yeah. But look at the size of your fucking country. I know. It's fucking huge. I can call my PCP and get in. Like if I have a cold or something and I need to be seen just to get something, she'll, she'll even do like, uh, she'll just do like a video call with me if I, if if that's it.
00:25:49
Speaker
My PCP is great. i can't I can't complain about my GPO GP as you guys would refer to one. It is worrying how many people in the US will just not seek treatment because they can't afford it. You just can't. I mean, people go without seeing dentists, people go without seeing like in their eyes checked, all kinds of stuff because they can't afford it. ah health Mental health stuff is a big thing they don't they don't do because they can't afford it.
00:26:11
Speaker
Well, that's the thing. I've said this quite a few times. I don't know if I've said it on here, but they should make it a requirement. If you want to keep the right to bear arms, the second amendment, right? If you want to keep the second amendment at the very, very bare minimum, make mental health care free.
00:26:32
Speaker
Dude, every health care should be... in court and know it should No, I completely agree with you at that point. At the point of use, make mental health care free because you fix that one and that one becomes less of a fucking trigger point.
Men Avoiding Help: A Masculinity Issue
00:26:47
Speaker
No pun intended. Ian's hitting the nail right on the head. How is something so fundamental to being a person, a charge, something you have to pay for? It's ridiculous. Yeah. i will so our country, our government is part of their job is to protect the country, right? Yeah. So my argument has long been how is healthcare care and education not part of protecting our country? and Yeah. it's it's This is my argument. To keep them protect the country or keep them obedient? No, no, it's it's in the constitution. They have to defend the country.
00:27:28
Speaker
My argument is healthcare care and education should be part of that and it should be quote unquote free paid by our taxes because if we are potentially the richest country in the world, the smartest country in the world and the healthiest country in the world, who's going to fuck with us? Who told you that? No, I'm saying if those things were true, if those things were true. So if our government had the military we have with healthier people in the country and smarter people here, who the fuck would fuck with us? The other fact that's astonishing is, do you know what country has the most expensive per capita health care in the world?
00:28:08
Speaker
America yep, we pay the highest price and get some of the worst some of the worst outcomes fundamental But the the other said it's like a I've heard of said before I think we said it on the West Wing But to touch health care in America is like touching the third rail and no politician wants to do it. Look what happened to Obama. Have you guys ever seen the difference in an American bill between somebody who has insurance and what the insurance company pays to what a private payer pays? It's fucking insane. yeah It's night literally night and day, the amount of money that they charge the insurance companies.
00:28:44
Speaker
So what do they call private payment? my My PE cost me two nights stay, one minor, super minor operation, and I see you in a day, in a regular bed and for a day. $60,000 plus. Wow.
00:28:59
Speaker
That's what the insurance got charged for that. It would be cheaper for you to fly here, get sorted out on the NHS and fly home. I have a friend who had breast cancer a few years ago and their total bill before insurance was like $695,000. But then even with insurance though, it still costs them 12 grand out of pocket. And it's like, that's still a lot of money but to find. the the between and And that's literally the difference between life and death. It's crazy. it it I just don't understand it. Anyway. There's people here that have cancer and stuff and they have to decide if they can what what they can do to like stay alive.
00:29:42
Speaker
Literally what they can do to afford to stay alive. A basic human right, is it not? but I default back to my my whole argument about defending the country. o So here's the thing, right? Men to try and get this... Back on track. and boss Back on the rails, right? Men historically... Don't ask for help or go to the doctor. Don't ask for help and don't go to the doctor. um yeah Yeah, I know.
00:30:11
Speaker
Right? yeah yeah Don't go. don't Don't seek mental health care. or yeah that's a don't they go I've got a pain in my leg. i I'll just walk it off. yeah friend yeah so d But you're doing that and you have access to the NHS, right? Yeah. It it happens it happens in America. And it's kind of moderately understanding for them because they're going, it's going to cost me a fortune, even with my insurance.
00:30:39
Speaker
I have reasons. I have reasons why. So, I mean, I'm ah i'm ah i'm a little better with it. so in adult and So we lost my dad to cancer when he was 45. And so I'm now older than he is. And for the longest time,
00:30:54
Speaker
I, the slightest twinge, the slightest pain, anywhere that wasn't normal, I would start shitting myself because they're like, oh, is this it? But I wouldn't do anything about it. it's an Because in your head you didn't want to face it and you didn't want to know. yeah So even when I, even when I had my PE, I didn't call an ambulance. I just fucking, I was like, I can't breathe. I don't know what's going on. It took a shower, got dressed and all that shit. still See that's masculinity. Stupid. I'm just going to fucking deal with it on my own bollocks. Masculinity and stupidity are very much on the same line. like Yeah. Well, to be honest to me, it's just because I don't, I don't really panic when it's me. Like if it's something emerging, I don't freak out. I'm just like, I'm going to do what I'm going to do and then I'll get there. It'll be fine. It's not, it's not, I don't, there's nothing I can do about it.
00:31:40
Speaker
I don't know what's wrong. I don't know what to do. So I'm just going to do this and I'll try to get there as safely and quickly as I can. but I will tell you now, if anyone has anything, if anything happens to either me or Tracy in our house, I hope it's me because she goes into nurse mode. Whereas I fucking shit myself and I've no idea what to do. I go into, okay, let's just go to the hospital now. what when it's What about when it's the kids? It's Tracy's job.
00:32:06
Speaker
Because he's too busy going, what the fuck? Exactly. I'll tell you a story. So we've been living in this house for a long time. And about 20 years ago, before we had the kids, we were sat watching for the US reference, won't get this, but watch a match of the day. So it's about midnight, right? There's a knock on the front door. And I'm like, just ignore it. Because we live on a terrorist house on a main street. So we used to get people pissed up walking past and knocking on the wrong door. Just ignore it. It's midnight. Just ignore it.
00:32:36
Speaker
knock on the door again, just ignore it. And she's like, I can't ignore it. So she gets up and it's Chris, the guy you used to live next door. So she opens the door and he's like, no, it was called Alan. Sorry, Chris was his partner.
00:32:50
Speaker
Alan. Chris is falling out of bed. She's not breathing. I don't know what to do. Tracy's literally there in a 90. No knickers, right? Just sat on the couch, getting ready for bed. She's like, right. Race is in the house, up the stairs. Chris is laid on the floor. She's had a massive heart attack, like dead to the world. So Tracy shouts at me, go get me some knickers. I'm going to start CPR, right?
00:33:16
Speaker
So if it was me, added if it if I'd have answered the door and she wasn't there, I'd have just panicked. Whereas she just went, because she has a medical background for being a dental nurse, she just, it's the the little things freak her out, she can't handle, but massive things like that, she just automatically goes into, right, what do I need to do? Whereas I'm the exact opposite. It's interesting. I mean, it's funny, you were we were going back to having female friends in your life. And this is, you know, i like so as ah as a kid, I saw women as this on a pedestal. I never had a proper girlfriend until I was like 16. We won't go further than that, but let's just say that happened a bit later, like way later. Anyway, so it was always a women. I was terrible, especially if I fancied them, terrible talking to them, just couldn't, didn't know how to communicate with women.
00:34:13
Speaker
And it's funny, at this point in my life, that I would say my closest friends are now all female. And it's weird. Mine are awful lesbians. If you could tell your younger self, you know... Just be yourself. Yeah, just be yourself. Jesus Christ.
00:34:39
Speaker
It was always trying to, in like, ah I remember there was a girl at school, I fancied, and I was like, it kept it oh, she wants to see you at break time. And i like I just wouldn't go around because I'm like, it's easier to not go and see her than go around and just say something fucking ridiculous. ah Yeah. Or have her take track, you know. You know, it's that whole thing of, um what is it? it's It's easier to stay quiet and be thought of fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt. doubt Yes.
00:35:06
Speaker
So that was my thought at that point. If you don't talk to her, then she can't think I'm a dickhead because whereas if I go around and be myself, she'll think he's a dickhead. yeah yeah ah But now it's just like, yeah, my closest friends are female and I find it i find women much much more comfortable to talk to. And I don't know why that is. I think I've talked about, I don't think it's the same nowadays. Men aren't, we've got, this is definitely coming full circle. Men aren't men anymore, are they, for the most part?
00:35:36
Speaker
I think it depends on who you run into. i know i'm not what would be past as i said For the most part, and like there's a there's a huge majority of men that but are in touch with their feminine sides. whoa and even touch with their emotions Even the guys are, they just don't admit it or recognize it. But they are. i mean you can't you can't Like your father, the way the way you described your father Lee, like there's no way he went through life, even though he but it was like that in your household that he didn't care about his kids. ah like It's funny because he never and never told me he was proud of me. I don't ever remember being told like, I mean, this just might be my memory. It's like 30 years ago at this point, but I don't ever remember. Like we're very much a household with us where we we tell the kids we love them. We always give them hugs and stuff before bed. It was very much that. And even like I remember
00:36:23
Speaker
when me and Tracy got together and my dad died and we started like, you know, we'd go around to see her and tell her we loved her and hugged her and and she the first time that kind of happened she broke down in tears because it's something she wasn't used to. she Because my mum grew up in a very, she saw her mum died really early and she was brought up by her grandma with like a load of other kids and it's Yeah, that's she has some real trauma going on there. um And so that was new. as I don't ever remember. I've never felt like I'm desperate for... Do you know what I mean? You could potentially grow up. I wasn't starved for affection, but it wasn't like...
00:36:58
Speaker
I don't ever remember being like, Oh, we love you. Love you too. Like none of that. It might have happened. I might have just forgotten that, but I don't remember that happened, but I'm not like bitter, like bastards. My parents are very like a yin and yang. Like my mom's very, very like loving and caring. Like everybody loves my mom, my dad. Growing up, he's a little different now, but growing up, he was strong kind of quiet type. like i never I've never heard my dad say he's proud of me. I'm almost 46 now. I've seen my father cry twice and it was because I caught him, not because he was doing it openly. on he was raised His childhood was very, very tough. He had a very tough childhood, very poor.
00:37:39
Speaker
very, very hard childhood. So I mean, I get it, but it's not the weird thing with him is that he never, I don't remember him saying, I love you to me. I don't remember him ever saying he's proud of me, but he had a way of just letting me know. Like I never felt like he didn't care. You know what I mean? It's a weird thing.
00:37:55
Speaker
I've talked to my mum about it since, and she said he was proud of you. I said it would have been nice for him to tell me what once every now and again. Some guys can't though, from that yeah especially from that generation. They they literally cannot say those words. He was a very quiet man. He very much kept him. I always remember when he was going through the cancer, because he had it twice, and then the second time that actually took him. like we never It was never really, not with me at least, and I was 22, 23. So wasn't like I wasn't like a kid, but ah we never really talked about it. It was in the background, but it was never sort of openly discussed. Apart from one time, I remember us start watching the football together and we and it's like, we I don't even know where the conversation came from. And he just turned around and was like, you know, it's terminal, don't you?
00:38:40
Speaker
And that kind of slapped me in the face. And I was like, shit. like I think I probably did know, but you just kind of bury your head in the sun because you don't want to accept it. And that was when it was real.
Fatherhood and Emotional Expression
00:38:50
Speaker
Do you think that was him trying to deal with it? Maybe. Because that's how people dealt with shit back then. Probably. um it was like My mum's convinced he knew that the doctors told him how long he had, but he never told her.
00:39:10
Speaker
Yeah, well I know I'd want people to know either if it was yeah Yeah, I was gonna say was he also maybe yeah, I was gonna say it was he trying to protect you yes, we think so. Yeah Yeah, I mean maybe for himself just Maybe if, you' like I say, if you don't say it out loud, then it doesn't really exist. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that's very much ah an old school man thing. We talk about masculinity. That's very much um a sort of stereotypical masculine trait, isn't it? Of not sharing that stuff. Yeah. And also, well, it's also, so this was the second time. So just from my mindset, not that he was the same way, but with my medical stuff, I don't really
00:39:51
Speaker
I don't really like empathy. I don't like sympathy. Like it has to do with my medical stuff. Like it's cool. Like I understand and I appreciate where people are coming from with it, but it's not anything I need. yeah You know what I mean? Like it doesn't help me. yeah It's not going to make me feel better. I appreciate the the sentiment of it, but just skip it. Just hang out. Just talk to me like normal. Like I don't get that shit. You can't, I mean, I don't think you mean you don't like empathy. I think the sympathy is the best. No, I think when it when it comes to my medical stuff, I don't really don't, I just want to be treated normal.
00:40:20
Speaker
I just want it to be normal. yeah i if i have If I have an adrenal crisis and end up in the ER, I don't want to tell you guys and then hear like, I'm so sorry. you're oh ya I just want you to be like, well, what the fuck are you doing? Just talk to me like normal. Yes. That's what I want. Okay, that's fine. I'll always call you. Not a problem.
00:40:37
Speaker
Yeah, that's exactly what I want. i don't I don't want the other stuff. It's just because it doesn't it's not comforting to me. It's happened to me so many times now. It's not comforting to me. got hate but maybe your dad was there too yeah yeah I hate people fussing around me when I'm ill. I had COVID the other week and I phoned into work sick for the first time in 17 years.
00:40:52
Speaker
And Tracy was going out and she's like, right, I'm going out. What do you need? And I'm like, nothing. Just leave me alone. I'm fine. I just need to lay in bed and be on my own. She's like, she comes up the stairs. There's a glass of water. There's some tablets. There's a banana. Make sure we eat. And I'm just like, just I don't i like I appreciate it. But I just need you to like, I just I don't hate people fussing. But that's her trying to look after you. Yes.
00:41:12
Speaker
The sentiment is amazing, but just do it in other ways. Like, just treat me like normal. Like, tell me to fuck off. I don't care. Oh, she'll do that. Yeah. If you guys are here and I'm in the ER and you come to see me, just treat me like normal. Don't look at me like, oh, you fucking cunt. My experience of that is around Cora, obviously, because obviously she has a lot of shit going on. And for years and years, me and Claire always had people who would come up I don't, you're just so amazing. I don't know how you do it. Yeah. I don't want, this is just unreal. And you're like, well, what the fuck choice do you think? Yeah, I was going to say, oh fuck her, leave her in a bin. Do you know what I mean? It's not, it's not, you're not going to do that. That's fucked up. like yes my point There's nothing else to do, but just deal with it. Just get on with it.
00:42:01
Speaker
yeah it's one of the it's not a oh my god you're so amazing for doing this type thing it's just weird and but i understand that's people's from the outside looking in they're going how the fuck are they able to cope with that because they can't comprehend having to deal with that day in, day out. And it's the same thing with you and people can't comprehend having them to deal with that. So the only thing they can say is go... ah Yeah, it's like when we adopted the kids, we got like, oh, you're such amazing people for adopting your kids. you know your sauce but And it's like, for us, it's just, they're just our kids. It's what we need to do to have kids. It's not like it's not a big deal. Yeah. The bit that people don't like is when they turn around and go, it's okay. She is disabled. She's still a ball bag.
00:42:46
Speaker
She definitely can be, but I fucking love her. She's still a kid. She still knows how to push her buttons and be an asshole. yeah but but She stalks major shit for a kid her age, too. Oh, she's desperate. Are you surprised when a father likes you? I know. I'm so proud of her. Definitely his kids. that This is my, it that is my, that is my later contribution. h It's how to teach her how to have a mouth to look after herself. you know the how you will you I will let people, I will let people into um who Stuart Mallett actually is. So, and a little bit, and a little bit who me and Tracy are at this point. So, Stuart came over here about three, four months ago. Was it Stuart? No.
00:43:29
Speaker
yeah so we met Yeah, we met up with him and had dinner out at a ah hotel in Sunderland. So it's just the three of us, you know, just shooting the shit. By the end of that night, we were stood by the bar talking to two Americans who we'd never met in our lives about drinking beer out of trainers and fucking prostitutes in Prague. Like, just it was the best night ever, quite honestly.
00:43:58
Speaker
It was that was funny. It was funny. It was a really good night. That's funny. and But going back to stu Ian, like what you said, one of the one of the memories I have of my dad was so them the months leading up to it, he was on 48 hour chemo. And Tracy and I went to Spain on holiday and I broke my hand while I was there. So when we came back, I was off work for six weeks and I got to spend a full day with him in the hospital.
00:44:26
Speaker
having his chemo and they had like, ah this is how far we're going back, a VHS recorder in the room and with like a load of videos that you could sort of borrow to watch. And we ended up just sitting, watching ah Billy Connolly stand up like and just pissing ourselves laughing together. Like it wasn't about anything, you know, like the cancer was all in the background. We were just having a laugh, watching Billy Connolly and that's exactly that. Like he didn't, I'm sure he didn't want us to just sit in silence or be like,
00:44:55
Speaker
you know talking about the inevitable it was just like we're just gonna have a laugh watching this billy conley dude have like being able to laugh in situations like that or just like get some hugs and laugh like that kind of shit is more that's more soothing and helpful than people being like so sorry this sucks i know you must be hurting so much what can i do for you just fucking like put something on and make it funny You need to be British then because, she you know, the British thing is to make humor out of the worst. That is exactly my response to things. I have to apologize sometimes to be like, look, that is just my trauma response. I make jokes at the worst times. I'm sorry. And it's usually the worst jokes about the worst thing possible in that situation. Just how I deal with it. we I do too. We were doing it when Claire's mom passed away a month and a half ago and um
00:45:45
Speaker
Everyone's just, it was just absolutely bedlam because everyone wasn't expecting it and me and Claire were sitting at the table with one of Claire's aunties and we were going, it's a bit mad because Claire's dad passed away a few years behind and they said to Claire's auntie, it goes, it's a bit mad that they're gonna be sleeping in bunk beds now. He says, well, Kevin went into the grave first, so they're going to dig it up. And I was it. She was gone. She couldn't stop laughing for a good half a year. And everyone's looking at her going, what the fuck is she laughing at? That is how we cope. That is much more helpful, in my opinion, to be able to laugh.
00:46:34
Speaker
And ass as if it was me, if it was me lying in the coffin, I would want people yes having jokes and laughing and lighting in the mood. Especially at my expense, please. Especially at my expense. to mean That's a very British thing, I think.
00:46:50
Speaker
but I thanks think so Americans find it a bit, what? Yeah, you can't say that. and like No, we're going to say that. I will say this too, Stuart. Speaking about that, um I remember when when claire's when Claire's father passed away, and the way you and I kind of like got through it, like the way you you and I kind of like leaned on each other because I was trying to be there for you. as We started sharing music back and forth, which was cool.
00:47:17
Speaker
Like we didn't laugh so much, but you would send me like, you sent me music that I still listen to today and I'd be like, Oh, check this out. See if this vibes with you. And we were just doing that. i We did that for like hours one day. I just remember. And you were telling me about him and it was cool because that's how you kind of dealt with it with me is I just listen to tell stories and send me music and shit. Yeah. Cause he, cause he was a musician.
00:47:37
Speaker
huh And there was just so many songs that when you told me, you told me about the music that was played at the funeral and stuff, like his friends and shit like that. Unreal. Yeah. Just, you know, I want i if I had if I had a tenth of that joy at my funeral, I'd be quite happy. real Dude, I don't. This is a weird thought to think about. I don't even want a funeral. Just have a party. Just talk all the shit you want about me. Oh, dude, when you die, we're having a party. go Fuck yes. Be like, yes, thank God. Fucking finally he's gone.
00:48:06
Speaker
yeah like story That's exactly what I want, man. Well, that died. no we get dark Sometimes and now we're all just like thinking about shit now. We're like, Oh, by the way, that pun was not intended. to um um So wait, wait, let let me ask, uh, Lee, you talked about discussing things with Finn, but what was it like for you as a, as a father?
00:48:36
Speaker
it was weird i don't know how I can't remember how much she talked about Tracy, but... Yeah, but I want your perspective, yeah specifically. It's a father-watching-his-daughter transition. So like one of the things was a lot of that stuff I got i got told secondhand because Finn wasn't comfortable telling me. And I don't know why. I mean, like I said, we've we've never had the best relationship up until the last year or so. But I always...
00:49:00
Speaker
we were always able to talk. I think i think Tracy said it when she was on last time that we've brought our kids up to nothing to boo at home. by our Raymond, and our oldest, would come home from school and said, oh, we've just found out this name for Dick today. And she's like, right, sit down and taught him every word for the male or... So it's like, if you're going to do it, get it right.
00:49:20
Speaker
um but that's it that's a sounds you just smoke pack of cigarettes grow jack jackard smoking and would be very much It's up to to be like if you have a question We'd rather you you went to school or where it might be fully educated than yeah this complete tit of yourself so a lot of those conversations between Finn and were between Finn and Tracy and I was hearing it from Tracy I don't know whether Finn actually told me as a, like, by the way, you know, I'm this or that. I don't think that conversation ever happened. It was kind of understood that Tracy had told me what was going on and then it was just so we never really discussed it. Did I have an issue? I don't have an issue with it at all. yeah
00:50:05
Speaker
It's not even about the issue. It's just you know you're you still have to rearrange your brain to go from daughter to son and
Parenting a Transgender Child
00:50:11
Speaker
all that other stuff. Yes, I'm still struggling with that now. Yeah, like Stuart and I talked about how it's not that we're against it, but we slip up because like it's 40 years of like rewiring a brain. Yes. Yeah. But I was just wondering what it was like. I mean, even if you weren't told directly, just hearing it from Tracy, like I was just curious what it was like, see your your perspective for other dads out there maybe. Were you surprised? Was I surprised?
00:50:32
Speaker
i mean So Jade was a very girly girl. Like princess Disney princess dresses and all Disney princesses like obsessed with all that sort of stuff. Was it a surprise? I don't know.
00:50:47
Speaker
I don't actually remember because it she did it in a, they did it in, I see i'm still suppose it's still difficult because we're talking about she and yeah yeah i still I still struggle with he. So I'm still working on they at the moment, which they're happy about. It's like, as long as you make in the effort, I'm happy with that. That's everything I've ever heard. Yeah. That's everything I've ever heard. As long as you're making an effort. It's very, so it took me a while. I still slip up every now and again, but Finn's becoming more natural now. I'm not having to think about it by saying Finn. Yeah. But it's still a weird insert. So like at work, there's only a couple of people that know.
00:51:24
Speaker
and the rest don't. And it's I know certain people's opinions on things, so it's not even a conversation that I'm going to have.
00:51:36
Speaker
is is that because you
00:51:41
Speaker
don't want to have the argument with them? Basically, yes. Fair enough. Because it's not worth it. It's not worth it, especially when people are like that. So people have asked me, oh, how's Finn get... air See, I've just done it there. That's interesting. That's good for me to do. How's Jade getting on at uni? I won't correct them. It's got, oh, they're doing all right. But I will say they still. See, even they's becoming quite normal for me now. Yeah.
00:52:03
Speaker
And it took a while. Interesting that there's a bit's a bit of a minefield. Does Finn just prefer they as opposed to he? I think they prefer he, but they're quite happy to get there. Yes, for the most part. I mean, obviously we will try. I spent years trying to rewire my brain to default today then, just in case. Because again,
00:52:25
Speaker
I don't give a fuck what you want. you can If you want to be an alien, if you want to identify as an alien, like just to take you to extremes, like the things that conservatives complain about, I don't give a fuck. I really don't care. If you're an asshole, you're an asshole, and that's the bottom line. Yes. The thing I have a lot of trouble with, so my mother, we like we've taught that they understand what's going on there.
00:52:47
Speaker
This is weird. I'm really weird. And I'm talking about my mother at this point. then She yeah um struggles when I'll be talking about Finn and using they because to my mum, they is a term for more than one person. Correct. Yeah, but they use it as singular all the time. So I'll be like, oh, they're having trouble. it And they're like, oh, Finn and who else? I'm like, no, oh, right. So she's...
00:53:12
Speaker
But that do you think that he is actually her not understanding what you're saying or she's rebelling against it slightly? No, I don't think she's rebelling against it at all. Out of the two parents, Tracy's mother and mine, mine is the one that's making the effort more. Okay. Just a lot more decades to rewire.
00:53:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's the thing. That is the thing, like, two would say. The hardest for me is like what Lee's dealing with. But my friends, if I meet you as a she and then you become a they, I'm going to slip up a lot more than if I meet you as a they. You know what I mean? It's harder for me to get shit to switch. So like for us.
00:53:51
Speaker
we adopted her as Jade. And she was Jade for like 18 years. And then to suddenly have to change who that person is, is it's tough. It's going to take time. And this conversation's actually made me realize how much I have switched a little bit already. It's good. um I think it's also some of the story. you yeah I don't think you realize you're saying it, but just to clarify, um what I picked up from it is as as a child, very girly. So that is not a signifier of what gender they they would, they feel like eventually, or even in that moment, because yeah they could feel like a very flamboyant male. You know what I mean? Yeah, I went to school with a guy who was very camp, played with Barbie dolls and Cindy's. I mean, he got tortured at school and as straight as ah as straight as you could possibly be.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yeah, but technically we all played with dolls and mine were just He-Man and stuff. Yes, but I'm talking like Barbies and Cindy's and stuff. i mean don't um anytime Anytime I had a chance to play with a Barbie doll, I had to look up her dress. Exactly. Of course. You're going back 30 years when it was it was very frowned upon for boys to be playing with girly dolls. I still fight with that now with my girls.
00:55:09
Speaker
I really fought against right fucking do you ever look right? I love Lego. Okay And so leg goes no, cause I'm not a fucking absolutely. Oh, be careful. Right. I love Lego. Yep. I like Legos. Lego sets are fantastic. Right. Lego sets for boys are a whole raft of things. Lego sets for girls are all pink. i go threaten or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's fucking, and I'm like, it drives me mad. I'm like, just buy Lego.
00:55:46
Speaker
why isn't there to build Why does it need to be gendered yeah well um and there's a whole load of things like that that absolutely i fought against and i know it was me being extra me.
00:55:58
Speaker
by But that's not a bad thing. But Cora still ended up being very girly, for want of a better words, and princess dresses, and dolls, and babies, and all that thing. yeah and and But I have Zoey telling me, she goes, oh, that's only for girls. You can't ah can't you can't do that. I'm like, what does that mean? That's interesting. Where's she getting that from? That's what I don't know. That's what I can't figure out. That's weird. And I'm like, why? from school
00:56:29
Speaker
Maybe from school. I don't know, but it's very strange, especially because Zoe loves Spider-Man. I mean, obsessed with Spider-Man and all of the Spider-Man variants, whatever it is, and all of those things. And I'm like, why are you telling me I can't sing the Taylor Swift because Taylor Swift is only for girls?
00:56:51
Speaker
I think in the car with my girls is a thing we do. So in the same perspective, Finn is obsessed with Spider-Man Transformers. Yes. Transformers are like obsessed. We went to see the 40th anniversary thing that they put on the cinema a couple of months back where they did. They put the first four episodes of the original TV series on, but with the original cast doing the voices along, it was so fucking good. That's cool. I have the box set for the animation. It was so good.
00:57:17
Speaker
but it it it's just something that was always kind of that thing of oh no no that's that's that's for boys and that's that's for girls i've always found it really really weird but like it's that thing of a boy ah but a boy i remember watching the thing was a boys goes well you want for christmas i want a baby And you're like, no. yeah they and like But why? What do you think he's going to grow up to be? He's going to grow up to be a loving father who knows how to look after a baby. What do you in your small mind think it's going to turn him gay?
00:57:52
Speaker
a paper file that's ah Okay. Okay. We're getting canceled now. That's obviously not how that works. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. None of that works that way. Just because you played with dolls when you were a child doesn't mean you grew up to suck and cock. I mean, there are people that would prove that.
00:58:11
Speaker
please for reason It's not the reason you either likes and cocky you don't. Yeah, I was gonna say it's not the reason but the generation coming up behind us seem to have like no borders with that stuff.
Impact of Gendered Toys
00:58:22
Speaker
So like they're just whatever you do. Yeah, it goes back to that. Watching violent movies make violent people I'm sure. That's definitely not true. I've watched all of the violent movies and I'm not a violent person. Fuck me, I was watching the most violent shit when I was like six and seven and I grew up on the most gruesome fucking horror films ever and I am the softest shit you will ever miss. I mean, aren't you being soft shit, okay? Uh-oh.
00:58:49
Speaker
Right. i want I want to know your feelings around this. Now, something you've talked about on your own post-podcast, well god which is UUP, the Unofficial Universal Orlando Podcast, from all your podcast channels. Go get it. It's great. It's on me and you know each other, so go figure.
00:59:09
Speaker
and
00:59:12
Speaker
You've said a number of times that at various occasions on your visits to the parks, You have you well up and cry. Oh, my God. I am the most emotional person on in the world. Right. So my emotions rule my life. OK. So if I am happy, I will be elated. Yeah. If I am sad. I mean, you know, do we talk? If I'm down, I am on the bones of my ass. There's no midpoint there. I'm either fantastic or absolutely shit.
00:59:46
Speaker
um and I will cry at the drop of a hat. Prime example, we went to see Logan, Tracy and I, when that came out of the cinema. Right? And everyone's like, make sure you take your tissues. It's an absolute tea-jerker. Right? So we sit there at the end, film's finished. What's happened's happened. Tracy turns around to me and goes, I thought this was meant to be a tea-jerker. There's me bawling my eyes out. but okay Well, somebody had to do it, I guess.
01:00:14
Speaker
So my question is, you be because you've talked about like during different shows or different things, but you're brought to tears and you have that emotional thing in you and that's cool, right? So those how do you think...
01:00:35
Speaker
does hear cogs work in yeah does Does that being brought to tears thing and make you think about your own masculinity? No.
01:00:48
Speaker
I know who I am. I've owned who I am a long time ago at this point. there's times when So I remember going to Horror Nights in 2019, the first weekender, which was such an emotional experience for me. And I remember coming back and there's like a real deep depression coming back from that trip.
01:01:09
Speaker
Like I've never had before. i lost day blues No, it was way worse than that. I lost interest in a lot of things. This usually said on the depression is once you start losing interest in the things that you do all the time. Like I stopped going to watch my football team. I stopped like playing on my PlayStation. The things that I would do every day. I lost interest in them. I remember sitting at work one day.
01:01:33
Speaker
And I decided to a rewatch of Stranger Things, because apparently I have a job where I haven't seen watch Netflix all day long. It's great, by the way. and And the opening theme tune for Stranger Things came on the first episode. And because of Marathon of Mayhem, suddenly I had tears streaming down my face out of work. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on right now? And I had to hide away, because I thought, if anyone looks over and think, what the fuck are you crying at?
01:02:01
Speaker
What are you watching? i like Stranger things like, you sad bastards. Why did you hide away? That's the that's the that's the interesting. Because I didn't want that conversation. people don't You know, being in the theme park community, people don't get it. People don't get why you get emotional about people. It doesn't matter if it's the theme park community. yeah i don't People can be emotional about a whole lot of things.
01:02:24
Speaker
i I can remember being in secondary school and I think probably first or second year and they play in music and they played Bach or Beethoven, one of the one of the big one of your big hitters of classical music. right And it was like getting one of the big build up, big build up and the fucking big build up and the bastard turned it off and I went, yes, because it was getting to the point where I was going to kick off. like
01:02:56
Speaker
And the whole class turned around and went, fucks it. I started laughing, right? But I get, that's where my emotions sit in music and things like that. i get like And you get a big rush out of it. yeah And it's like,
01:03:12
Speaker
it's It doesn't matter if it's theme parks or whatever. you're clearly that's Your sit right on the surface and are readily available for you to access. 100%. When you talk to Tracy, she would tell you that she she hides she hides her emotions because of... Most people do.
01:03:30
Speaker
because of what happened in her life. I wear my heart on my sleeve 100%. If I'm pissed off, you will everyone fucking knows it. yeah yeah If I'm sad or happy, everybody knows it. i can't I don't hide that shit. So the reason I asked the question, and what does that mean to your masculinity was was basically around the the thing of like, so you know the way your dad was.
Value of Emotional Expression in Men
01:03:56
Speaker
um if you If you had said to your dad, I seen Marathon and Mayhem, and I bowled my eyes out. What would he say? What would he say?
01:04:09
Speaker
You're being soft bastard. Probably something along those lines. It's funny, I remember going to see some Disney film, I can't remember which one it was, and the you know and they used to do like the little shorts at the beginning of it. There was one about a volcano,
01:04:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Oh, Nava. Oh, fucking good. Oh, it gets to me every time. That was fucking great. Me and Finn, or Jade at the time, like we were sat there, and the pair of us were leaning into each other, hugging each other, crying like babies at him. Oh, God, it's so cute. Sweet. I love you, man. That's like stuff like that, watching movies, TV shows, stuff like that. it just I can watch anything and start crying. And Tracy's like, all right. yeah And I'd be like, literally, tears streaming down my face. Like, you're watching the Epic Universe preview for the Ministry of Magic that I didn't know I was that excited about and I'm like...
01:05:02
Speaker
christ i mean Calm I mean, for me, it is the end of ah Return of the King for Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings, Return of the King, the very end where the where he says to the hobbits, you need to know man, every even right now, fucking every time. i'm like looking just stupid fuckingin jesus It's weird, isn't it? It's weird, but it gets you, though. Have you seen Eurovision with Will Ferrell and Rachel McAdams? I've never gone forever. Not forever. I don't remember it. The song they sing at the end of that hit me every single time. And I cannot listen to that song without tearing up. It's just so emotional.
01:05:46
Speaker
it's music for me like it's always music but like there is a song from rent that gets me and it's the round that will i song that they sing when they're in the group therapy and it's literally just around it's not even a lot of lyrics but that song gets to me because of the medical stuff that's what it makes me reflect on yeah i actually love being as emotional as i am you talk about how does it affect my i like being who i am that way i don't give a shit Me too. I don't give a shit, but I'm not that emotional. I mean, I am, I'm very, for a dude that looks the way I do, I think I'm pretty open with my emotions in general. Yeah. But. I ain't crying for no motherfucker. I ain't crying fools. That is one thing I do have to work on. I don't really cry in public and I don't usually admit it. So. All right. There we go. You need to get that out of him when you call. I didn't say don't cry. I just said I don't really admit it. i
01:06:36
Speaker
I don't occasionally, I'll break down and and start crying. And then once I start, I can't. I'm like a pack of fucking Pringles. But most of the time I won't cry in public. And I actually, I do tear up and I do cry, but I find it really hard to just let it go. yeah And I have a friend who's like, oh yeah, I cry all the time. And it's a fella.
01:07:01
Speaker
And a, no, he goes, he goes, I cry all the time. It's really good for you. It is good for you though. For some reason I hold it. I kind of grab, I hold it back. Do you know what I mean? And I'm kind of grabbing at my heart there because that feels where it comes from. So why is that? I don't know. I can't figure that out. I have asked this question on here before and I cannot figure it out. Is that a masculine thing then that it's, it's not masculine to cry?
01:07:32
Speaker
It may well be, but I am fully aware that I'm not the world's most masculine man, whatever the fuck it means. But yeah, it is, you know, I think it's a, but I mean, I can remember my dad crying when I was younger. I can definitely remember my mom crying when I was younger. um So it's not like my parents were at first at tear. Do you know what I mean?
01:07:58
Speaker
so It's not masculine to cry, but it is masculine to not give a fuck what anyone thinks. So therefore, is it also masculine to cry? Yeah, interesting. It's the masculine paradox. um I mean that works for anything like it is masculine to not give a fuck what everybody else thinks so like. If you're doing something that people perceive as feminine or unmask you if you do it anyway because you don't give a fuck is that make you. masculine It's funny if you actually look at my relationship you would think that our. Sort of masculine feminine roles work kinda reverse to be quite honest.
01:08:39
Speaker
Okay. She's much the very more guarded, hides her emotions away. I'm the opposite. Yeah. But is that a modern times thing, do you think? No, that's ah that's a what shit's going on in her life thing. and yeah going to say I think it's person to person thing. I think it probably is more people's lives, the shit you've been through that ah makes you the person you are more than whether you're masculine or feminine. Yeah. True story. Yeah. I think there is something to be say of a sort of, just for lack of a better word, a sort of tempering of people.
01:09:16
Speaker
Like you would temper metal or something like the strength and stuff coming from that kind of crap. ooh Hit people with hammers is what you're saying. You don't hit people with hammers? I thought it was normal. I mean, it's frowned upon. Is it? Just a little bit. I was just unaware of that. Only if you thought, you can only get away with it if you thought. I mean, I am Viking, so, you know. I mean, yeah. I'm not saying that. To be honest, I'm not that sore of only him or something.
01:09:41
Speaker
but um um ah couldn't was sitting there I'm definitely the fucker that pushes the button that says do not push. Oh yeah. One million percent. funny million years since Going back to Finn, Tracy always said when they grew up, they were the kid that needed to do something to find out why you didn't do it. Yeah. Yeah.
Zoe's Cushion Incident
01:10:05
Speaker
Mate, don't do that. It'll hurt. Well, fuck it. I'm going to find out. Yes, it hurt. That's that's what Zoe is, too. In fact, she did it today. She kept pushing the cushions from the sofa onto the fucking floor. And then she walked through the living room and tripped over one of the cushions. And I went, so why did we not push the cushions onto the floor? And she went, because I'm falling over and it'll hurt. I'm like, well, there we go. We've land we've learned a lesson. And Stuart had his phone out and you'll see it on an Epic Feel video next week. Yeah, 250 quid then. Exactly.
01:10:34
Speaker
Can I? Of course. OK. All right, do it. Stuart, I think it's time. I'm ready. A more difficult question. No, I'm ready. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you very much, Lee, for coming on. Well, I've enjoyed it. It went somewhere I didn't expect it to go, to be fair. that's an And that is the best thing about it. But we always we the only two regular things we have in the show are the two questions, the one at the start,
01:11:04
Speaker
and the one at the end. Do you have notes, Lee? No, no, I'm just looking at the phone.
Driving Control Struggles
01:11:12
Speaker
So what is the manliest thing, Lee Malaby, that you have done this week? I have to be careful how I say this, because if it could come across as being a little sexist, but it's not. Well, to make it more interesting. So we bought a new car this week.
01:11:30
Speaker
oh exciting We traded our old one in that was like 11 years old. And so this is, this is coming from a point of view. I am a complete control freak. So most of the time when Tracy, we only have one car, but we both drive. And most of the time when we're in the car together, I drive because I need to be in control. So when we got our new car this week, I managed to step back out of my control
01:11:57
Speaker
And Tracy drove our old car to the garage to trade it in, and she drove the new one first. Wow. And from a control perspective, that was really hard for me. Not because I don't like her driving, but it's just like, do you know what? Why not? Yeah. That's... thats
01:12:16
Speaker
That's pretty good. I was going to say, it might be more really manly if you were like, I have to drive the first time. and I really wanted to. to be fair The most manly thing was when Tracy let me drive it, she let me drive it. so
01:12:30
Speaker
And that's what I had to be careful of seeing the other way around. So we drove home because we were going to go out for takeout for tea. So we drove home to get some money. And so she drove here. yeah And then I drove to the chip shop. yeah And then it was shut. So we went to the supermarket to pick some pizza up. And then we got back to the car after being in the supermarket. And she just held her hand out and went. ah And I was like, all right, then you can drive home.
01:12:56
Speaker
That was more manly. Everyone wants to play with a new toy. Lee, it was awesome. This has been great. We're all really good friends, so it's been cool to talk to everybody. It was a really good conversation. Thank you very much. Tell everyone where they
Podcast Discussions
01:13:10
Speaker
can find you. I know I've said it already. Well, actually, I'm going to plug everything if you're going to give me the chance. Go for it. All of it. Go to town.
01:13:17
Speaker
So we actually have our own podcast network now. So it started off with the Unofficial Universal Orlando podcast that we've been doing for 13 years at this point, a point covering everything Universal Orlando related. That then spun off to we now have the Russia Fair podcast, which is our the Halloween Horror Night spinoff podcast. We have the Taste of Universal, which is our universal food podcast.
01:13:38
Speaker
We also now have our new podcast, which is the Portkey Passport podcast, which is our Disney-centric podcast. We also have the UUP Network podcast, which is a podcast made of a host from each podcast. And then I'm going to plug ah my other one, which Ian, I don't know whether you've ever heard of this British comedy show, but I'm now doing a Red Dwarf rewatch podcast. I know Red Dwarf. and So a friend of mine who, funny enough, used to be a show director at Universal Orlando. We are now doing a rewatch of Red Dwarf and that is thanks for the memory and can be found everywhere. All the rest of them can be. That's awesome. When you guys do, when you guys get done with Red Dwarf and you move on to the in-betweeners, let me know. I'm going to tell you now, then when me and Blake are done with that, you and I will do that podcast. Hell yeah, dude. I've watched that entire series and movies like three or four times. It's amazing. It is so good. Oh shit. Yes. It's so bad. Oh man. All right, everybody, please check out these podcasts, all of them, any of them, and give them some good to you. Please support him. Lee and Tracy are awesome people. I don't know. Later guys. Thanks for hanging out with us. Thank you. Have a good week. Bye.