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Episode 36: EvilJay asks if a dog hitting a piano is music.
31 Plays1 month ago
This week we talk to Jay. He tells us about being a touring musician, a special education teacher and more.
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Transcript
Can a Dog's Piano Playing Be Music?
00:00:30
Speaker
Oh, well, i I had a person phrase a question to me yesterday or the other day in my classroom. We're like, when a dog bangs on a piano, is that music? Yes. And I'm like, well, yeah, Philip Glass would agree with us. You know, like it doesn't have to. Yeah, yeah. Atonal, non-tempered. Yeah, whatever. I mean. Yeah, if you put a beat over it, then yeah. Doesn't even need a beat necessarily. It's free time and it's atonal and that's still music.
Introduction of Podcast and Guests
00:01:02
Speaker
Someone somewhere will like that and we will hopefully never meet that person.
00:01:06
Speaker
I, uh, on that note, Hey kids, welcome to toxic masculinity with Eden Stewart. Hi. This week we have my friend Jay. Uh, what's going on guys? How are we doing? Uh, I'm feeling ashamed that I forgot that I had actually spoken to Jay one time before a long time ago, but I was very pissed. So we were all, we were all fucking drunk that night. And i mean that's many years ago. It's probably i know but still like four years. Yeah. It's gotta be like four.
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just happy I remembered your fucking name because I'm shit at names. But Evil Jay is kind of easy to remember, even though. Evil Jay. Why Evil Jay? He's not that evil. I mean, the but the the story of the reason I became was dubbed Evil Jay was back in the day when you took photos and you still had to wait to develop it.
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah. The first club show OTEP played in Los Angeles, the band that I was in, we got photos taken, we got them back, we're flipping through them. And OTEP finally was like, dude, you look fucking evil. I'm going to call you Evil Jay. And that was it. That was it. And I got to i got bummed out because I was like, oh, nobody I went to high school is going to know who I am now. No. Like my
The Story of 'Evil Jay'
00:02:20
Speaker
first thought was like, yeah, but I want all the people that didn't think I was going to do anything to know that I'm doing something. And and then And then it was like, okay, well, I guess that's not important because I'm just going to be Evil Jay. More like minorly perturbed Jay. Oh, trust me, that led to a ah variety of nicknames throughout, like Mildly Agitated Jay. We were out with Static X. After the day and their crew would be like, which Jay are we going to get today? Is it going to be Evil Jay or Mildly Agitated Jay? Or is it going to just be the dickhead Jay? Nice.
00:02:53
Speaker
Oh man. right So j yeah Jay. Jay is also one of my closest friends now and he plays bass on like pretty much anything I do. He's very, he's very not helpful. I'm just like, dude, we're going to do this. He's like, okay. I'm like, I thought the job in my role was to encourage you regardless, regardless. You're just like, let's just go. I'm like, Oh, fuck. Okay. I'm coming from a place of yes.
00:03:20
Speaker
I'm coming from a place of fuck. What
Reflections on Masculinity
00:03:23
Speaker
the hell? on Why did I show him that? I knew I, if I knew I didn't want to do it. Sounds like a, sounds like a free-form jazz album coming from the place of yes. Pretty much. very much So Jay, what does masculinity mean to you? Hmm.
00:03:44
Speaker
ah It's funny because once you hit me up and and asked about being on this today, i I of course started just thinking about that concept in and of itself.
00:03:56
Speaker
you know And in the way things are happening nowadays, and we look at gender roles and you know and how all of us were raised, you know and oh you have to take that into consideration where I'll raise a little differently. But I mean, I mean i know this shows toxic masculinity, but you know so I started to think to myself, well, is there positive masculinity as well? and And I think so, you know, I mean, I know that probably a lot of people these days would not. Well, I don't know. I don't really care what they if they agree or not. But to me, masculinity is.
00:04:33
Speaker
demonstrated when it's a, I guess i I would look at it as a level of confidence. Now, confidence could be in your feelings and and experiencing things and sharing things. Like I know that you and I have helped each other both kind of come out of our internal selves and some people say lower the walls and things like that and become a little bit more personal and share, you know what I mean? yeah It's definitely in this day and age, mental health has become such a forefront and focus and and especially in my my profession, mental health is a big thing as a teacher. And then on top of that, I'm a special education teacher. So there's an interesting impact of mental health there, but to go back to masculinity, it's just
00:05:23
Speaker
It's tough because it's it's it almost feels like it's supposed to be a bad word Like what anybody refers to something that's being you know, you're being masculine and stuff It's like it can be looked at as a bad word because Is there another word that we could use to to describe what you just demonstrated, you know is masculinity being that chest puffed out kind of you know on this kind of guy and blah blah blah and I bang on my chest and all that is that masculinity or is being open to your emotions and being sympathetic and empathetic and all this to other people, is that masculinity? Because I almost lean towards the second, I lean to the latter. Yeah. I think that's what masculinity should be. Yes. But it's not necessarily what people recognize it as. Yeah.
00:06:14
Speaker
But but it is to it is what you see it as for you personally, which is correct. So it's like I'm sure I'm sure all of us go through those various stages through life when we're younger. If you asked me at 15 or 16 what masculinity was and then at 22, they'd be different answers probably and then it's so on and so on. And and what what we hope is that we evolve emotionally. Yeah. I mean, I think that culturally or I would say generational I've noticed looking back and seeing like my parents get older and when you start taking care of your parents you know these situations where you see them getting old and getting fragile and then my dad isn't as masculine as he used to be and then you think about well is he still holding on to for you know it's interesting my dad still thinks that keeping a couple hundred bucks in his wallet is a good idea and um I looked at I was like why why you have a debit card
00:07:13
Speaker
but but just put that idea and he's like, well, you know, it's a guy thing. And I'm like, is it? Who told you that? and What does that have to do with being a guy, a woman or anything? Like you just, you feel comfortable having cash, but for you, it ah creates an identity. Like, oh,
Teaching and Positive Masculinity
00:07:32
Speaker
because of that, I'm a man because I am prepared. So it's, yeah, it's. Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder about that.
00:07:43
Speaker
Well, if you came up came up poor like my dad, I could see him trying to ask. My dad was grew up really poor, so I could see him hiding cash in his wallet and stuff. I never noticed or asked, but, you know, I could see that happening. He grew up really dirt poor. So right. And my dad, too. I mean, my dad grew up with a bunch of like, I think he was one in six, five or six kids and sleeping on straw mattresses and stuff like that. And, you know, and and then.
00:08:10
Speaker
He, you know, back in the day when you could get a job in insurance and all this stuff, you know, people talk about, oh, well, one person had to work and everybody had a house and all that stuff. It was like that generation. But even then as my dad got older, I've kind of started to notice him embracing his other side of masculinity, which was his Showing me the beauty of a sunrise or a sunset and making sure that I saw the beauty in the world or always making sure to point out things that he thought were beautiful.
00:08:41
Speaker
instead of just like, look at this demonstration of power. Yeah. Do you think that was always there for him or it was getting older, he it suddenly came to him? I think it was always there for him, but I think he also became a product of of society and who you're around. my I'm sure Ian and I, I'm sure probably all three of us could speak upon moments where The crowd that we're in may look, I mean, will look at us and then automatically stereotype and think, oh, well, Ian rides motorcycles and has tattoos, so he must think or behave this way, or he must yeah think about people
Gender and Gym Culture: Toxicity or Tradition?
00:09:24
Speaker
this way. you know you're you're ah I'm bald. I can't tell you how many people during the years that I was on tour would just think because I shaved my head, I must be a Nazi.
00:09:35
Speaker
And I'm just like, uh, not to, to be same. no I'm here a little sufficient and it just looks better, man.
00:09:51
Speaker
that As soon as you start to see the scullet kicking in, you you gotta you gotta take it. And that was me. I saw pictures on the first tour we were on. It's like I had hair and it was gelled up and then I leaned down and I'm like, oh.
00:10:07
Speaker
look at that could see a little extra back here you know so then my bandmates were like dude you should shave your head you look cool and then luckily i didn't have any divots or real that's the that is most definitely the thing i would worry about as you shave it off and you go ah fuck it looks like that pay is Yeah, I'm gonna go fool Elton John here hold on a minute Jay, I know you teach your special ed, but you teach adults
00:10:39
Speaker
Well, I did. I'm now in high school, but I did do 18 and 22 for four. Oh, that's cool. Perfect, though, because adults in high school, like, do you see any of this come out in any of the classrooms of any of the the kids and with the special needs stuff? It's i'm curious. yeah I never ask anyone. I do. I some of it's it's an interesting working with students with autism. Yeah, yeah. That that in in and of itself is just an interesting world where I mean,
00:11:09
Speaker
I, ah to be able to observe and try to understand and and really just, you know, understand what's going on and and how to help students and and acclimate and all this stuff, but ah that side apart.
00:11:25
Speaker
because of a you know a lot of times a lot of my students with autism are kind of almost ah appear to be disconnected from from even those concepts. But those aren't the only students I work with. I have a variety of different disabilities in my classroom. And and yes, I've seen some where They're in their mind. they're They're seeing all this stuff. They're seeing TikTok. They're seeing YouTube. They're exposed to things and they're grasping, trying to figure out, you know, it's like I had a student who was going to go to one of the dances and I asked him, well, what, you know, are you excited to go to the dance? What are you going to do? He's like, I'm going to get girls.
00:12:00
Speaker
And I was like, oh maybe start with like
Masculinity in the Metal Scene
00:12:04
Speaker
making them friends, but let's start talking to them. Let's look at, but it's again, his disadvantage from not being exposed, he skipped some steps and just was like, yeah okay, I'm this age now, I'm an 11th grader in high school, I'm going to a dance and I'm going there to to meet girls, because that's what you did in movies and that's what you do here. you And again, he has access and abilities at school, we try to create those opportunities, create social things, but just hearing that come almost like from the mouth of babes. yeah right here And I'm like, he and then we had that discussion like,
00:12:43
Speaker
Maybe just introduce yourself, you know, and and let them do the same and then go from there. Don't yeah go with this. It's almost like a window into what? people are being fed, it comes out in a very blunt way. right like Rather than, oh i want to I want to see if I can meet a girl or talk to a girl, but of i'm i'm goingnna I'm going to get girls. Because that's what they're told they should be doing. It comes out in a blunt way. and it's say
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, it is. written my My daughter has autism. I don't know if you remember that or whatever. But yeah, it is kind of a weird window on the world. Yeah. it's it's I mean, and and it's like i when I was working with the adult transition, it was 18 to 22 year old students. The majority, if say I had nine students, eight of them were nonverbal.
00:13:36
Speaker
So, even working in a world where I am not getting verbal reinforcement from my students and and their interactions and then thinking about what that's like for their parents to not be getting verbal reactions of hearing the phrase, I love you or... any of this stuff or hearing mom or dad come from their child or even see children where it impacts them so much so that they don't even show signs of affection or when they do show any type of emotion, it's aggression. And you're just like, who was the one who decided to create this wonderful thing that caused people to be more aggressive because instead of just like, hey, I'm going to invent autism and make these people hug everyone.
00:14:21
Speaker
You know, I mean, but but sometimes you do and it impacts everyone so differently and and the disconnect that sometimes they're not exposed to a person with a disability is still a person and they should still be given those experiences of life throughout all. And and it is a challenge of like how much bubble do I put around my child to protect them from the world?
00:14:48
Speaker
which we say, whether it's an atypical child or a child
Fan Interactions and Music Scene Dynamics
00:14:52
Speaker
with a disability, but you know it it's it it's definitely different. And to see how society is still struggling, and these students will struggle with not knowing where they fit in. And then some students, because you know I've had other ones in that tradition transition program because of culture,
00:15:12
Speaker
that whenever I would tell them that, oh, you know, they'd be like, what are you going to be doing this weekend? And I'm like, oh, I'm doing the laundry. And they're like, why would you do that? That's a woman's job. And I was like, let's take pause right there and think about what you just said. Depending on who you say that to, men or men may not get punched in the mouth, young man. yeah But yeah culturally, this is what he was shown and grew up with. And then i wouldn't I wouldn't say that I'm a groomer, but this is where my opportunity as a mentor or a teacher is to try to say a job isn't really associated with a gender. yeah you know I even thought about it. it's It's interesting the more woke you become or just hyper aware of things. I used the W word. I said woke, but i was at the gym I was at the gym the other day and I'm i'm sure
00:16:11
Speaker
And you know and the when I go, they lead they're into classes and they're being led by an instructor. And the instructor was done telling him, okay, we're going to do this exercise and the suggested weight for men is this and for women it's this. Or we suggest that men use this bar and women use this bar. And I immediately took pause because I was just like,
00:16:31
Speaker
Dude, I can guarantee own tea that there's some women here at this class and lift heavier shit than I can. Like, my squats are done. I've got no knees. do yeah Give me the quote unquote women's, but like, why is it applied by a gender? Why would that, you know, and it's like and as awake and aware as I cannot come from medical guidance, the same as like they would say man need two thousand two hundred calories a day and women need.
00:17:00
Speaker
but but not true i really care So this is the problem with many not is that where that I think that is where that comes from though, right? It also comes from the whole like, you know, you go through puberty and get more test offs and this and that. So it all comes from that kind of science, biology. I didn't mean that folks. That was me trying to wind in up. and he didn't know He's totally doing that shit.
00:17:21
Speaker
But I mean, they're like, yes, if we go straight and just look at gym culture, which I'm, you know, Ian knows nothing about. I don't know anything about the gym. He's an established um physical model. more yeah We're all out of shape now. a I don't have to tell him what year that centerfold is from. i mean ah I mean, we had, we had Lindsey on here and she's, she's like, uh, she was like 155 pounds. She's got like a four, she got over a hundred, 400 pound deadlift right now. So right right I mean, you can't, but and I mean, there's all kinds of stuff when you come to like
The Influence of Connecticut's Music Scene
00:17:59
Speaker
athletics and people's builds and genetics and, but you know, what
00:18:03
Speaker
The medical world too, in general, like BMIs are kind of a joke. They don't really teach doctors nutrition. When you go to school, they get like one quick class on it. Like medical is kind of weird, but is it toxic masculinity then to imply that in this class, if you're a man and you're not starting with that weight, then you're not a man. I like that impression or is those that those that split in sizes come from a from a... ah patriarchy, oh, women are weaker, so they need a smaller bar thing. Is that where that comes from, maybe? I believe so. I mean, I believe it is rather than any reality of. Right, right. You know, it's us feeling as if this is the the focus we need to do because, of course, women aren't as strong as men. So we always have to, you know, just like with golf, you know, it's like you have a men's tea and a women's tea, but I still suck at both of them. Yeah, you know, and and again, it's it's like, why? But this is where we can go back and go history, history, history, history of like, when was this implied where there needed to be a clear gender separation? You know, like the biggest awareness came to me when I was doing a report in middle school on the Salem witch trials.
00:19:25
Speaker
and to just see and then trace that back and then hear about it. And then it's like, did this all just come because dudes were scared of women? Yeah, that and property. And so we had to figure out a way to let them not actually realize how strong and how awesome they were. So we had to scare the shit out of them and keep them repressed. Even that's interesting. Burnings and hanging for women with the one dude was crushed by rocks. Right. Which is kind of interesting.
00:19:53
Speaker
Well, he could deal with it because he could lift heavy weights, bro. That dude just said he was a bad ass though for somebody dying like that. He just said more weight. He never said was no it was a board was put on him and then he was put on the board. Right. Yeah. I was watching the program about that the other night. Interesting. Fucking tough as nails to do that shit. That's crazy, man. Yeah. um As far as the gym goes, the gym is a weird thing because It's not one size fits well fits all because not everybody has the same goal. Not everybody has the same amount of time in a gym or understands certain exercises or body mechanics or biology or like there's so many different ways to do things in the gym to get to different goals. Like if you're trying to get strong, it's not necessarily the same things you want to do to get big. Big and strong are not the same things necessarily. Right.
00:20:40
Speaker
it's just weird man the gym is odd i think they should personally if i was it just is just my my way of doing it if i was teaching that class i'm assuming the bars are different weights from the way you're talking about it yes i would be like you know if you're if you're not sure if you how much you can lift and maybe start with this bar if you comfortable with try this bar and if you know whatever is comfortable for you use that like a beginner maybe start with this Right. Because I think it's more accurate. So it's usually like a 10 pound difference. It's not even a lot of weight. So no. and And again, I don't think when he's saying that it's coming from a place of like, I'm trying to place us over you think it's just, you know, it's just the way it's it's been done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also there are women that are like that are um not even women. There are even some men, very few, but they're very like, I don't want to get bulky and they don't understand the mechanics of like the gym doesn't really do that for you. The gym isn't what makes you big
Festival Culture and Band Camaraderie
00:21:30
Speaker
or strong. Like it, it damages your muscles to create the avenue to get there, but you need to eat and sleep. Right. That's what really does most of the work. So it's just all kinds of silly stuff like that. Like people crack me up and they're like, I don't want to get too big. I'm like, how much are you eating? Because you can't grow muscle from nothing. So right, right, right.
00:21:47
Speaker
But I mean, even you can go into any genre, like go go into heavy metal music. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Especially, I i mean, the band that I was in for 10 years is this band OTEP, it was a female fronted band, you know, and and going through that whole process and then... her embracing the fact that she's like, well, I'm gay, you know, and every guy just thinking automatically that a blonde haired lead singer of a band definitely wants to get with me because I'm this cool metal dude. And it's like, dude, you're you got the wrong bits and tackle, man. That's not. yeah You know, and and seeing just the assumption, even when everybody knew that this was no possible chance, but still like
00:22:32
Speaker
Well, duh. I mean, i I'm this macho guy. Of course you want me, you know, and that's the assumption anyway, though, is it not? Mm hmm. There's some dudes that have that whole like they just needed they just haven't had a good dick or whatever the fuck you want to say this bullshit. Like they say that about like every lesbian I've heard. Like there's a few guys that are like overly, toxically masculine or just fucking stupid and have like that facade.
00:22:56
Speaker
So that's some of the things I've heard people say to lesbians and stuff. It's fucking ridiculous. It's weird. It's very weird. Speaking of that stuff, dude, you've been on like festival tours, like not just festivals. What's it like doing? Like what do you see on the road with that kind of shit? Like with all those, it's a lot of, I would imagine that's a lot of testosterone based on bands.
00:23:16
Speaker
There were a few moments in where you had to remove yourself from the situation just You only because one I didn't think it was going to be something where like if I left it would Result in somebody really being harmed or something, you know, like I would never if it looked like it was against someone's um will but yeah, there's just people people in those types of situations you're blown away by what they would want to be able to do or as far as fans wanting to be have memories or connect with artists and artists taking advantage of that situation and yeah and just you know not respecting I mean sure plenty of times ask for autographs and somebody comes up and goes to pull the shirt and I said
00:24:06
Speaker
I just, I have to kind of stop you right there and let's just keep it up here, please. You know, like, I mean, and and people, sometimes I've had boyfriends be like, dude, sorry, my girlfriend's chest. And I'm like, I look at her and I'm like, do you still want to really date this guy? Like, yeah.
00:24:22
Speaker
And again, it's like but but alta at the same time, in my defense or wherever, because I'm not calling out everybody who does do that. It's just when I got signed and when I was in a band, I was 26, 27 years old, so I wasn't 18. Put yourself
Nostalgia and Evolution of Music Scene
00:24:39
Speaker
at your 18-year-old self and you're like, are you serious? All right, here, I'll sign me up. I'll sign wherever you want. But you know you get older and then you're just you start to think like,
00:24:48
Speaker
you know It shifts. You get to that age, you're like, well, what if this was my daughter? Or what if this was my sister? And you can put yourself in those positions. But you know it's it's it was interesting you know like you know you to just see how people, fans would do whatever in some regards to just get to Hank. I just want to get on that bus. And then I'm thinking, really, dude? Let's wear a bunch of sweaty, stinky, dude. I'll wear that off and live. yeah It's an above ground submarine filled with dirty socks and stinky undies, man. yeah It's not that cool. It's not that cool. and and And realistically, go get the yearbook photo of that guy, and he probably was a huge dork. I know I was. I was a band geek in school, you know and but it wasn't about that. but but yeah i mean it's
00:25:40
Speaker
It's nice when you you can find people in any community where you connect with and you have shared values and things like that. I mean, being on Ozfest and being around that many different artists and being able to talk music. said I mean, but some of my fondest memories was like the 2001 Ozfest that just got signed were just new and everything. And I i got on Mudvane's tour bus, um which i know I know Ryan's not a fan, but You know, it the fact that Ian's not a fan of Ryan, but I was at that time and being able to have and we nerd it out. We both I went onto their bus with my CD book and he had his and we just compared and like, oh, look at what music you're listening to. And it was also Phil, the bass player from Taproot. But having those moments where you can kind of nerd out on music and be around that kind of supportive group. And then in in seeing the festivals are cool, too, because then you start to I mean,
00:26:38
Speaker
when you're on tour with Meshuggah, of course I'm going to stand on the side of that stage. oh yeah you know and and Or Breed or any of these other bands. Then you start to see the band supporting each other and then you get these abilities to connect afterwards. and Then yeah you're going to see those people that are out here just for the wrong reasons and you just associate yourself with that unless You know, unless it's a one base player that you got to hang out with. And that was for you because he's that gnarly dude. And to have him come up. Yeah, it was it was because he's playing for Aussie and black label at the time. Right. Yeah. And then that was the.
00:27:21
Speaker
know know now i did That That other little band. you know that yeah That little band that he joined? Yeah. lets yeah i mean I actually had the opportunity to stand backstage before we were going on and and Rob walked over and was like, can I do swarm ups with you? And it's like, we're both like playing scales together. And yeah, it was such a dud, dude. You're such a dud. He's like, dude, you're in there, man. Don't do it. I like that song. That's kind of cool. And I'm like,
00:27:50
Speaker
You're fucking robbed for you. why fuck up say it a it was one That's funny. That's funny that it doesn't matter. Everyone would kind of go, Oh my God, these people are gods. It is funny to hear that a bunch of dudes are still just a fucking bunch of dudes. Do you know what I mean? And I think sometimes
00:28:18
Speaker
people forget that and lose that bit of themselves where they're just, but just fucking, there's something about just hanging out with your mates or and a bunch of guys and just kind of shooting the shit and relaxing. It's actually really good for your fucking brain, even if it's just, you know, backstage at a festival, Jesus Christ.
00:28:38
Speaker
and that it's just It's just that it's it's kind of it's it's a it is very good ah for your mental health and
Masculinity, Vulnerability, and Mental Health
00:28:46
Speaker
all that type of thing. yeah And they just that thing. And it is kind of funny to think because you you know because i mean I remember being 16 and going to see Slayer and all the you know mad bands. But you just forget that they're fucking normal people. Do you know what I mean?
00:29:04
Speaker
something And it is well yeah and you hope you hope that they stay normal because you don't go the other route. and And for me, I had some really unique experiences growing up where just these random opportunities happened or situations happened where it just kind of helped shape my growing up. Chip Korea, for us jazz nerds out there, was this jazz piano player. My dad loved him and would play for me. And I was like five years old and my dad's like,
00:29:31
Speaker
One of his records, this Mad Hatter, I just loved it. And my dad was like, we should write him and tell him. Tell you, dude. So he did on behalf of me. And Chick Corea wrote me back. I mean, so not yeah you know it's like so that happened. And then when I was 15, my brother, I was living in Connecticut and Hershey Park Metallica came through for the Injustice for All tour. And my brother was working backstage and got me a pass.
00:29:59
Speaker
So awesome. I get to go backstage and meet Metallica and it was literally like the most chill, cool, it like they they were still acting like just regular dudes. i so like they They did it great because they each came out individually. So they kind of gave you an opportunity and they floated around and gave you an opportunity to kind of have a little bit of a moment with each one of them. Yeah.
00:30:22
Speaker
And I remember James came out and i I'm like, I'm a 15 year old kid sitting there across from James Hetfield. And I was just like, so do you think that Cliff Burton would like, you know, and justice for all?
00:30:36
Speaker
And the fact he didn't punch me in the face was awesome. And he's and he gave me a real straight in. He's like, yeah, I do. like We took his influences that he gave us, and we put it into this new record. And the fact that he had, they they gave us that opportunity. So here I was a 15-year-old kid with my idol sitting across from me, being chill with me. So then I thought to myself, when you're in that position, never be anybody other than that.
00:31:01
Speaker
and b Be yourself, be genuine, beast be sweet. you know i and and And be grateful, be grateful. Because not like Ian said, not everybody gets opportunities. One of my best friends from childhood who is extremely successful told me that any day he'd give up the Rolex and you know and all that stuff just to get a taste of what it would be like to be on tour. And I'm like, you want to ask your parents for rent money?
00:31:29
Speaker
you you want to you want to hope you selling You want to hope you sell enough merch to go to McDonald's for like the $2 menu? right You're going to go home and scramble to maybe get a construction job and a bouncer job for a few months. you know it's like there's There's a lot that people sacrifice, you know and and that's why a lot of they hustle nowadays. a lot of the The musicians that are able to continue doing this stuff, they they do it, but they hustle on a lot of other stuff too.
00:31:57
Speaker
To be fair too, like you and IJ specifically, I won't speak for Stuart, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had a similar situation. But because of the place we were in at a specific time, in a specific group of folks when things were starting to start from something, being in Connecticut and New England and being nearby New York when all of like the hardcore metal stuff was coming up, we had an interesting perspective because we were The bands that we liked were not untouchable, like many people have. Like even bands like Slayer and Bio has, we're playing clubs, not like arenas. And we'd be able to get to them. like will you I saw Slayer walk out of the Webster and go to the bar with Fear Factory. like You could just walk over there and hang out. like They're not saying no. um I saw...
00:32:46
Speaker
bands that like we, Jay and I grew up with Hate Breed coming up before they blew big. Like we saw Kill Switch Engage become a band. Like yeah nice these huge heavy bands that are touring now. We saw Overcast fall yeah apart and become all these other bands. Yeah, like Aftershock ah fell apart and i like all these bands, like people don't know that Kill Switch was like a super band of like all these really great bands that were from New England.
00:33:12
Speaker
i was I always honestly thought it was interesting that nobody ever kind of like when we were growing up, people talked about the Seattle sound and it was the L.A. sound like no one ever really came out and talked about what resulted because then you had your Bay Area Thrash, you had your death metal from Florida, but nobody ever talked about Connecticut and or that New England scene. and And even though you had your bands like Madball and Biohazard, you had your New York bands, you know but then you had this Connecticut meets Western Massachusetts that just put together these acts which inspired each other and created and really instilled the the hardcore community which pushed hate breeds so far out that then the world got to experience it and then it became you know
00:34:01
Speaker
something bigger. I was always waiting for somebody to kind of draw that connection and start to talk about like, look at how it influenced, look what Killswitch and Gage did. What was their impact on having this new melodic thrash where people are singing heavy and singing and singing?
00:34:19
Speaker
Yeah, people weren't doing that when Kill Switch came around. So, and hate- You had Fair Factory. Fair Factory was the only band and then all of a sudden- That was the closest. Yeah. And then everybody else on the East Coast was like, oh, I got you, kid.
00:34:31
Speaker
ah got And, uh, Hapery too, man, like, uh, Jamie. People don't know this, but Jamie used to hustle his ass off. if He did like all the shows in Connecticut. And in their first, their first full album that they released, if you open up, if you have a CD and you open up the liner, like every band that he could think of is listed in there. Like he tried to give people a push with that, which like even Red Tide was in there, the band I was in with Foley like and Matt and every, like Blue and and Woo and everybody. But like,
00:34:58
Speaker
Like we were nobody really but like every band he could think of is listed in that in the liner notes which is pretty it's like three fourth panels it's a lot of bands so like he he tried. deep He, if
Legacy and Impact of the Music Scene
00:35:10
Speaker
it wasn't for Josta being the promoter guy that he was, which was a great, it made it, allowed him to facilitate that whenever national bands came through Connecticut, if he wanted and he thought that this is going to be a good opportunity for Heybreed, that he would book that show and then put Heybreed on the bill.
00:35:28
Speaker
yeah or a And at the same point, he knew that Tyrant Trooper, the band that I was in in Connecticut, that we had a good, at least 100 to 200 to 300 person draw just being that local Connecticut band. That if he had a national act that was struggling to kind of pull tickets, he could throw us on there and then that would increase. like I remember playing CT Skate Park with Brutal Truth and and just you know different bands. And just like and and Dan Lilker coming up and being like, where did everybody go?
00:36:00
Speaker
I don't know, but I gotta go check out this thing in my car. you know But it it was, you know, she from Jost of 14, where he was 14 years old, being in a van and pushing it to to go and like, want to be a part like that was the cool thing. like People really when you can get a bunch of kids to keep going to like little VFW halls and where there's no real sound system and it's just people playing that music and you're literally standing right there. There's no barrier. There's no stage that will connect you. Yeah. yeah which isn I kind of that's.
00:36:38
Speaker
Like one thing about getting older is going to gigs. I miss those gigs. Yeah, dude. I mean, well i mean i I played in bands too. um All across Northern Ireland um in the 90s, really early 2000s.
00:36:58
Speaker
and had a fucking whale of a time, um playing madness with people standing right fucking there, right in front of your face and having a great fucking time doing it in wee pubs and wee clubs and all sorts of stuff in Belfast. And I do kind of miss that. But also, um I miss going to those gigs where you're going to watch a fucking band in a sweaty room and it all just fucking goes nuts. There's something electric about it. yeah you know And I've had a couple of gigs in the past year in smaller venues. And it kind of reminded me of that. Like I seen fucking helmet. Yep. Fucking helmet. I seen helmet this year and in the limelight and the limelight holds 200 people. That's awesome. And I was like,
00:37:51
Speaker
A fucking helmet. It was epic. yeah But there's something about going to tiny gigs like that. It's just so much fun. like Yeah, I mean, the crazy thing is for once. I mean, I know, Stuart, I talk about being a hardcore kid all the time. He rags me for it, like, you know, ribbed me for it. But like Jay will tell you, it was we were actually part of something and it's fucking nothing that's ever going to be repeated. And it's insane to even be able to say that.
00:38:20
Speaker
And to think that I kind of stumbled my way into it because I was a metal kid and I got like I showed up in that scene with long hair and I don't know how I didn't get my ass kicked because that happened too. But I survived and then to have GME core long intake. You're welcome. Tyron Shuper helped to that bridge. don't know I was going to say because Jamie took Tyron Trooper, who was a death metal band. And for some reason, the hardcore kids like clung on to that shit and liked their music. And I'm talking Jay was not in the band the first time I saw Tyron Trooper and I was 15 when I saw them for the first time. They're one of the bands that I first saw on the underground.
00:38:55
Speaker
And I saw him in a shitty ass club. And one of the guitar players from a band from Jersey came in and locked the doors because he saw people coming down the street with weapons. And he was like, don't go outside. I'm like, OK. I'm like 15. And this is happening, you know. And I'm like, well, this is interesting. I mean, I remember just like the tune in a New Haven, which was a big hardcore club. Oh, yeah. The Ryans. Fernando would be playing. And, you know, it's like, like he said, I don't understand exactly. We would go to shows and depending on who was playing, there was usually skinheads and long haired kids getting in fights. You know, it was like the metal kids and the hardcore kids never got along.
00:39:35
Speaker
You know, and then. But why? is I never understood why that was. I never had that masculinity. all But dude, I never really had it. My hair was my hair. I listened to everything. My hair was curly, so I never had the option to know what I mean. It was ah it was if I had buying too much, my hair went out like a fucking microphone. It was not. I mean, there was there was always bridges between the two like Motorhead was always accepted by both.
00:40:01
Speaker
right everybody loves lambing yeah i mean so it started there started to be bridges but for a long time hard long hairs with hardcore kids like the the hessians is what they used to call them in connecticut and then we used to call the the dudes that would show up in their white caps were uh like the white baseball caps we called them tods That's what we used to call them. They turned up in white baseball caps. Yeah, like kids would show up in like baseball caps and like jocks. Yeah, we called them jocks. It sounds like you lived through like a weird Connecticut version of Warrior or
Community and Connection in Music
00:40:33
Speaker
some shit. Yeah, I know. Remember FSU? Yeah, we had crews. I'm still friendly. FSU is literally wearing Florida State University hats, but it was fuck shit up in their mouth. Ah, Fran stans United.
00:40:51
Speaker
Oh, is that what it was? We always just thought it meant fuck shit up because that's what they did when they went to every show. That's what they say it means. But I always knew them as fuck shit up. So no offense to anybody. If you're listening, you're an FSU. I always I don't have any hate for any of you guys. You guys were friends some of my friends. I understand. It was great. It's what you grew up in. I just find it cute as fucking hilarious. Yeah. Dude, there's crew. Do you want to make it because for us, we were trying to have fun and go out and party and not get fucking shot at. Or end up, do you know what I mean? Because the the the the the the crews that ran around in our town were all fucking paramilitaries.
00:41:35
Speaker
and yeah we didn't have jobby it was basically And the clubs that you were playing in were generally ah that club or that bars round by those doorman are fucking them and those doorman are them and you're just fucking... Do you mean if shit was going down, it was fuck all to do with the people inside. It was to do with... other shit going on dude there was even in the scene there was always rivalries it was either long hairs versus this or this crew against this or connecticut versus new york like there was always some kind of rivalry going on but we all still came together and we rarely fought each other we just like to talk shit a lot half the time but
00:42:11
Speaker
And I mean, and then with the growth of Ian and all that, like the influence that we saw more unity, you know, it's like you saw more hardcore kids appreciating metal. And and and then when you have hate breed who can throw death metal parts kind of in their hardcore music and vice versa, it just brought bridge that gap. And then we realized, wow, dude,
00:42:32
Speaker
if If we all come together, we can have bigger shows and play bigger venues and have more fun and and things like that. We're no longer playing the VFW Hall, we're playing the the Webster Underground. yeah yeah yeah and Now I'm playing the Webster. i mean Well, the Webster Theater and in Hartford, Connecticut was Tyrant Trooper's last show. yeah i mean a A little kid, so here we were playing for 10 years and we go play this show and the band that opened for us,
00:43:00
Speaker
wore these big baggy pants and sounded like corn and had hundreds of kids show up. And as soon as they got done, I sounded like Dan Loechler from Brutal Truth and said, hey, where'd everybody go? It was like, oh, that genres have shifted. It's here like their goals. Now it's about corn and death tones and all that stuff in that early late 90s, early 2000 shift.
00:43:26
Speaker
Well, the other thing that happened, too, is like Jay said earlier, like we all just realized we were a bunch of fucking weirdos and outcasts and we just only had each other anyway. So, like, we all just kept showing up. And I did find it was a very supportive scene. It was a very supportive scene when it when Push Game to shove. It's like you knew you were going to see your homies at the shows and you knew and you knew everybody had each other's back. And I mean,
00:43:50
Speaker
still to this day, how many times did you and I see people pick people up who got knocked over in a pit or hold a hat or hold a sneaker up in the air when they see like, yep, people go and see it from the outside. They're like, this is such a violent thing. And I'm like, yeah, it is and it isn't. And it's better than a fight club. Still, like, things that ever happened to me was someone handed me my shoe when I was growing up. I say, on people's heads, putting me fucking shoes. I mean we ah we got one show and one kid had like a flipper like a fake tooth and it flew out of his mouth we stopped the whole show and everyone's looking for it like all kinds of crazy shit would happen we were super violent but it was also fun yeah Yeah, I messed that like Jeremy. I used to love that. christ so Just like Exodus said, good, friendly, violent fun for everyone. It's the toxic waltz. Yeah, exactly. and you don't see people You don't see people crowd surfing or stage diving anymore. Depends on where you go.
00:44:55
Speaker
I fucking haven't seen it in a really long time. Probably not in a venue, but at I still see it when I see footage from like festivals. And clubs too. Festivals and stuff. But I remember when I was- It's probably easy to get away with in a festival, but I mean, yeah I can remember. I mean, i well i mean even watching Glass from Brie, you never see it in Glass from Brie anymore. And I literally crowd surfed at Glass from Brie to the same band about six times. but And the guy's going, stop fucking doing this. I'm like, ah, no, no.
00:45:27
Speaker
ah and my i gotta go yeah' be back and then you go right over to glo just goes down here another fake is that all right no that yes it okay so but i mean i say There are bands that'll stop you from stage diving, too, because there's been people that been killed.
00:45:41
Speaker
Oh, you're not you're not stage time at a festival unless you're fucking. No, no. Well, I'm in like a fucking 15 foot bear. song jump Jesus. You just miss father. Oh, shit. Just your pan, pure. And just laying on the barricade. You know, what one of the cool things about when you're in that signed band is trying to find another fill in gig when you're not in tour. So when I was in Seattle, I was I actually was a bouncer at El Corazon, which was the off ramp, which is where all the grunge bands started. Oh, right. Yeah. And literally the position I had because I was so tall is that when it was shows that they said there's no crowd surfing, I was what they called the apple picker.
00:46:19
Speaker
So when people did go up there, I would reach him up and just drop him to the ground, you know, and and just be like, do you you can't do that. And if, you know, it's always, it's always helpful to have the six foot guy looking down at you, you can't do that. yeah But, you know, and I could see the liability, but yeah, those those days when you did have those small clubs with at least a stage that was two and a half to three feet high, you knew it was on. just throw so Oh yeah. Too much fun. Who goes home and says the more sore you are, the better the show was. Yeah. I can remember my first my first gig, first proper concert was Slayer. Nice. Me and like four people out of my class in high school went.
Personal Growth Through Music
00:47:15
Speaker
It was midweek because we were in school the next day and we were all sitting at the back of the class.
00:47:20
Speaker
That was really good. at the figure Moving our a whole body around to look at each other because we couldn't move our fucking neck. And you're like, it was epic. Yeah. I mean, I can speak to that. I get cortisone, I get cortisone shots in my neck because I gave myself whiplash so much. Jesus. I have arthritis in my neck now. And the best was the first round of shots that I got from my doctor. He actually played OTEP over the speech.
00:47:52
Speaker
So I'm like, this is the band that I gave my neck to. And now I get cortisone shots because I have arthritis in my neck. so ah dude yeah like that's turned that was good off but when see that That's the downfall of shaving your head, Stuart.
00:48:09
Speaker
is that you don't get the proper windmill with the hair. So you gotta do so much more with nothing else. If you could like go back to the days when Sean Martin played in Hate Breed yeah and Sean Martin's neck was like this wide.
00:48:30
Speaker
It's like, put a brick on his chest and he's just smashing bricks. As I said, I had curly hair. So when I was going gigs, I used to put, I used to put baby oil on my hair to try and get it to fucking sit down. Right? But every Yeah, yeah. But every time I came out of a gig after head banging for three hours, whatever, it was like fucking microphone. I don't know if it was like, my mates always used to, do you remember the film? So I married an ax murderer. Yeah. Yeah. Mike, Mike, Mike Myers. It's like the bed in it where he goes, he'd move. He goes, he's like a fucking orange on a toothpick.
00:49:12
Speaker
That's all I used to get. It's funny, this made me think of like one of those super masculine moments. So I'm thinking about Tyrant Trooper, you know, we just played at the tune in and we, a bunch of us had long hair and we're backstage after the show with our giant brushes sitting there combing out all the knots in our hair.
00:49:34
Speaker
like but they like We're talking and comparing. Well, dude, your press looks cool. Like, what kind of push is that? You guys are just on stage. And then now you're just like, you got to start on the bottom. It's just like, what the fuck are you guys doing? And John's like, i'm I'm not even growing my hair out. I'm going to always look like corporate America guy. I'm fine. Yeah. I'll just wear scary clown costumes and stuff. You know what I mean? He fucking did every time.
00:50:07
Speaker
i mean aaron And that was that that that was the gimmick. is's like what what I don't know why he got into it, but it was great that he did. But our singer decided like, hey, I'm going to wear random masks on stage. And then he'd come out like his first was this giant ram mask. And he just walked out in it. And then he would take it off. And he had an old man mask where he put the mouth out so he could sing with an old man face. amazing And then it eventually went to he bought a full clown costume. yeah and the head was a skeleton clown with the whole the whole collar and everything and he would come out from the back of the venue while we were doing the intro and walk through the crowd you know and and it's just it was like what this is a death metal show when there's a clown walking through and then he'd get up on stage and then he'd pull off and then he would perform in a clown suit you know and you're just like
00:51:02
Speaker
but You know, those male kids are super scary man. yeah exactly Yeah That's good shit though, you know, you're gonna have a good night and that shit happens so to John is fucking funny man. And the funniest thing about that too is between Rick Ron and Jay being the stringed line up in front John is like five six and they're always six foot yeah and We were we we used to so used to make fun of the fact that we were the heaviest band around because we're all fat. like we We're all big guys. So it's like John was on the wrestling team in school, and he's like five, six, and then we're all six foot or bigger, and then we're all about 300 or more pounds each. So it's like, we are the heaviest band in net weight.
00:51:49
Speaker
yeah And then our drummer was all into bodybuilding. Justin was always super muscular. I remember us having a conversation one time after Pride, just like, dude, we should go on tour. And Justin's like, I don't know if I could go because I can't work out every day. I'm like, but you can go and play. He's like, yeah, but I got to keep working out every day.
00:52:15
Speaker
Little did I realize later in life, you just bring the weights with you. Yeah, exactly. I can't tell you how many dumpsters I've worked out next to in venue parking lots. You're just like, oh, God.
00:52:27
Speaker
That's what God invented kettlebell weights. I mean, they have they have gyms in other places, you know Yeah, yeah but you don't have the money in some cases to pay for that shit when you're on tour But a lot of bands bring like there's a dude named Ari that plays he was on tour. He joined OTF chapter Yeah, I mean have you ever lifted a guitar? um That's pretty fucking heavy. Yeah, don't we don't want to talk about that We were just joking about that on facebook the other day there was a so custom was a stairway with an apeg eight by ten that you had to carry up And we did that all the time with the bike exchange there was always one or two base players that had the fucking refrigerator to carry up the fucking and when when we would be the opening band at the Chicago House of Blues,
00:53:08
Speaker
It was called the House of Stairs. That place had like five flights of stairs. And the elevator was always like for the main acts. Everybody else is like, oh, dude here we go. But the elevator was for me and I actually weren't allowed to use the lift. Fuck that. Sometimes I mean, or it's like or you showed up late and you're like the only I don't have the time. Yeah, there was. But that's why you had, you know, least you had crew to do that. But yeah, yeah you still have.
00:53:35
Speaker
I can edit this if you don't feel up to it, Jayboo. You want to talk about Ron a little, since he was a big part of our lives? No, I mean... So ron was um Ron was one of the first people I met in the underground, and Ron was... What what was he, like 6'5", 6'6"? 6'4". Yeah, around there. 6'4". Really big dude. Literally, literally the epitome of a teddy bear. and An insane guitar player. Like really, especially a rhythm. He was an insane rhythm guitar player, but really fucking awesome.
00:54:02
Speaker
I used to see him all the time. And even when I was at my biggest, I'd run up and jump on his back and like hang like hang off him and you turn around laughing because he knew it was me every time. And this dude got to play in a band with him and we lost Ron. And it was a really fucked up thing because it started as like an infection in his foot that he didn't want to go get taken care of. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jay. This is what I remember. I remember they amputated his foot and they went to his leg up to his knee. And I went to see Killswitch and some other bands and I came back with shirts for him.
00:54:33
Speaker
And then eventually they had to do surgery and they opened him up and they found cancer right when he was starting to do better and then we lost him. So he was just starting to heal through all this stuff and then he was gone. And Jay, go ahead dude, talk i don't i mean like all time the The good and the bad with with what my choice was is that when when time trooper disbanded and and we kind of went our other ways and you know, I eventually came to the point where I was kind of done with New England. So I moved to Connecticut or California and then moving to California gave me all these other opportunities, but it kind of cut my connection with a lot of my friends. The internet was not as hopping as it is now. So it wasn't
00:55:15
Speaker
You know we didn't have camera phones and all that stuff back in 2000 so you know a lot of my connections with my friends and the guys that were in Tyron trooper kind of stopped and me not being the reflective person that I am these days. Um, I never really stopped to think about how that might've impacted my friends when I did leave. You know, I mean, I'm sure they understood why, you know, but I, I left everybody in Connecticut behind and just moved out to California. And the, the greatest thing for me is that when like,
00:55:52
Speaker
When I was in high school, just like Ian talked about, this the music scenes of a lot of times other bands break up and it forms another band. Well, Tyrant Trooper existed when I was in high school, but then I was also the lead singer and bass player in his band called Stormfront. And Rick Braille was the guitar player in Stormfront, where in Tyrant Trooper, Jon Pucci was the singer, and Justin was the drummer.
00:56:17
Speaker
and um ri bas and i believe Well, eventually he did, but back then they did there was they went through a couple different, I played bass in Tyrant Trooper before that. But then when I finally went to college, that's kind of when the first step of those high school bands breaking up and becoming the new Tyrant Trooper. And then that's when Rick Braille joined in and played bass.
00:56:41
Speaker
ye And then for whatever reason, I was just probably around the end of I went to college for the first year. I come back that next summer. And, you know, for whatever reason, Rick wasn't going to play bass anymore. I think Rick was going to play guitar in Tyron Trooper. And Ron was like, hey, would you want to play bass in the band? I'm like, sure. And from that point on, it was like, OK, it was great. We probably rehearsed like three times, but I knew and saw the song saw them play so much that I knew the songs. and And I was going back and forth, but I was that person who was like every single time
Music Community's Role in Overcoming Challenges
00:57:16
Speaker
I came back from school and I was on spring break, winter break, wherever, I hung out with Ron. Like he and I bonded for a solid three and a half, four years where, you know, he was a homebody, you know, and and I was
00:57:34
Speaker
oh oh always I was awesome with that because he would always be in that basement in his house and I would just show up and we would just hang out, play GoldenEye, listen to 88.7 and listen to what, 88.7 was the the college station that played death metal on Saturday night at midnight. you know and you know and and you know it was And Ron and I really fostered this great relationship and I relied a lot on him and he had a great sense of humor. We had so much in common and and he always created a very caring and so in in you know open environment. you know He had a younger brother, his younger brother played drums in my band Stormfront with when I had Rick Braille. So you know we it was a family affair, we were very close and
00:58:20
Speaker
And i I never thought about what it was like when all of a sudden I just disappeared you know and and how that may have impacted him. Because again, we talk about toxic bank masculinity. We didn't share those feelings. you know if your If your body leaves, they leave. you don't You don't get to call them and say, hey, man, I miss you. Because that's just not stuff you would say back then. and and it It was the greatest thing is that probably like six years after me being gone and I was touring, Ron came out to a show and that was the first time I got to see him. And it it it just brought back all these amazing feelings that I had of like, yeah he created ah a space for me to go and have Foster a great relationship and a great friendship.
00:59:06
Speaker
but then to have the greatest experience musically that I've ever had in my life. You know, it's like I was signed to Capitol Records. I did Ozfest three different times. I played in a band professionally for 10 years and I still talk about Tyron Trooper more than I talk about OTEB. And it was because of those guys and it was because of Ron. You know, Ron kind of dictated, whenever you were around, Ron had that energy where he dictated the way things were going to be in the room, kind of. And, and you know,
00:59:36
Speaker
being a little bit, I mean, he was a little bit older than me a couple of years, you know, and then Ray O was a year older. They were kind of like the big brothers, like Ian said, you know, he saw them as these these big brothers in the scene. And because of their involvement and how much they cared about just music, you know, like that was the that's all he wanted to do. Ron just wanted to play play his guitar and damn that explorer. His fortitude, his gives an explorer.
01:00:03
Speaker
but white fucking explorer, dude. I remember when I went away for a while and then he got it back. If I remember right, I was like, Jesus Christ. How do you not play that thing? That's like Ron special right there. Yeah. How did you take it when you heard he passed, man? How did you hear?
01:00:18
Speaker
oh I can't remember specifically, it was probably it was probably Rick Braille, um because he and I are the ones out of the band that would that stayed in touch the most and then and it just and shared. And then of course, you know over the last X amount of years, right before COVID, we started doing Sloth Fest. So ron Ron would always refer to people that you know if somebody's being a jackass or somebody call them a slo like nice but you sloth, you a sloth, you know, and yeah so so, you know, because of the impression that tire trooper had in that area in that community.
01:00:57
Speaker
I think it was probably around like 18 or 20 years since the last time we played together, a fan and a person of the scene, Jeff Miles, who also plays bass and a ton of bands and is great guy. He had this idea of having a tyrant trooper reunion show, you know, and and that's because of that. I think I got that was the time when I was able to come back to Connecticut, play the show, be around the guys. And that's when I.
01:01:23
Speaker
Kind of got more information on what happened with Ron his situation um How he you know, he didn't want people to really know how bad his condition was because he was again in that level of toxic masculinity, he didn't want people to feel sorry for him or pity him or, you know, and it was better for him and his impression for everybody to just think everything's just fine. And then the next day, you're dead. And you're just like, well, what the I could ah I could I and then it's like, well, yeah, you could have but you still ended up with a great opportunity. So
01:02:00
Speaker
I mean, I was i was so super grateful that he and I were able to reconnect. But then once he started to get sick, I had no idea that it was even happening. yeah and then and then you know And then when he passed, that's when I found out. And then I was like, what? it I mean, it was such an ah absolute shock because I had no idea about everything else. you know And then then I'm seeing pictures of him playing with bonded through hate while he's sitting in a wheelchair you know because of his foot. And I'm just like,
01:02:28
Speaker
holy crap, like because we didn't have this social media where you could keep up to date with each other's lives. I missed out on that whole decline. And I don't know. I mean, i do I wish I was there or knew about it? Perhaps. But then I also don't have any memories of that. I just have the good memories. Yeah. So which is a good thing. Right.
Redefining Masculinity with Empathy
01:02:54
Speaker
A few of us, like we were, like Jay was saying before, we were not just a subculture, but we were a community. Like a lot of us, especially, especially people in bands, whether you're in a good band or not, we all knew each other in some way. And as soon as I found out I went and saw, I saw Ron at the rehab hospital he was at and then I saw him at home once or twice.
01:03:14
Speaker
Like people were making efforts. I remember I think when I was at the hospital, the rehab hospital, I think he said little Joe was just there to check in on him yeah before me. Little Joe was a maniac in like all of the best ways possible. He's he's fucking hilarious and super awesome.
01:03:29
Speaker
um But like I dude, I remember it shocked me. It blew me away because I didn't know he was sick like that. It looked like he was healing because he was playing shows again, like Jay said, in his wheelchair and doing his thing. And it came out of nowhere. a lot of us So and him being like the the role that he and Rick Braille played in that scene of just they were supportive, like they were those guys where it's like when you play, the they were the guys you wanted to play a show with because they stayed and watched or showed up early enough to watch yeah other bands. They were there for the show. They were there for the experience. They were there for the people putting it on. It wasn't just an opportunity for them. It it it was their life. you know And it was great that Ron gave every piece of his two to that music scene you know and left such an amazing impression on so many people. you know it's like
01:04:24
Speaker
I have no doubt that he knew that, but I doubt he knew that. Yeah, that you know, it's like, I don't think Ron and again, that's another thing too. I mean, Ron was a ah heavy guy, you know, he was definitely doing overweight, which led to other things that again, you don't talk about, you don't like like how are you feeling, man? Like he wasn't dating people and things like that. And, you know, it's like, but he put all of his effort, all of his love into his music, which in turn turned out to be something epic that's living on still. I mean, we I just actually
01:04:59
Speaker
read We the guys from Tyron trooper one day in a group text was like whoever get our songs on Spotify and I was like Yeah, I could do that. So On Halloween, we re-released our CD that's 30 years old and put it out on all the streaming platforms, you know? and Nice. And then posted to see people commenting on Facebook or Instagram about, oh, I still have my original CD or people posting pictures of the shirts that they still have. I'm like, dude, that shirt's like 30 years old. How did it not turn into dust by now? I think I have my shirt still. I think I lost my hat.
01:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, but that was that was the thing too, is that band, our singer, made a great deal with some merch company early, early on in our career and they loved us and he was so good at it that we had we had everything from all different types of shirts, different designs, different shorts. like Remember when Champion shorts came out and they're like the sweatpants short is just a Champion?
01:05:56
Speaker
we made tyrant trooper shorts just the same way they were sweatpants shorts but where it said champion we just made an embroidered tyrant trooper or yeah you know it did silly little things like that and and everybody but you know and in that and Because of that and because of the support that Ron did and gave so many people, I can't imagine how many careers it spawned for other people. For sure. We talked about the scene that Ron was a big big part of it for me. like even Even if I never got to talk to him, like I said, he was in the first show I ever saw. He was always super awesome. He was in a good band that people wanted i wanted to see.
01:06:37
Speaker
He's always super smiley and nice and always there for everybody. So like like I said, it was a legitimate giant teddy bear, like literally that with a great sense of humor, you know, but then yeah we think about it. It's like, OK, if still alive, if we're here, we're at this time in our lives and going, you know, like, how how did.
01:06:56
Speaker
having that burrow-down moment where you become vulnerable and say, well, how did you feel when you were that age? Did did you feel alone? did you have like Did you ever feel alone because of the isolation due to weight? Or did you just not even think about that because you got so much from what you wanted from your community and your music? But those conversations will obviously not have. But those are some conversations you wouldn't have back then. But nowadays,
01:07:24
Speaker
we're starting to do that. And I definitely see it as my friends get older that I don't i don't think we want to hide that anymore. And we, you know, it's like I said, you people are realizing it's how important it is. Yeah. You know, maybe it's important for you to have those conversations, but it's also important For your friends to hear you have those conversations for sure they might go oh i can help that conversation they have maybe they haven't been alerted the fact that it is absolutely fine. yeah or also They might relate to it and find something in your house like i was about to say i think he and i started talking and we've been open like pretty open he's one of the few people i can find in like stewart.
01:08:10
Speaker
But like Jay and I have had some pretty in-depth conversations where it gets to the point where he'll just call me and stop texting and it'd be like one in the morning for me. But it's all good. I mean, I knew Jay back in the day, but he barely remembered me when I hit him up one day. He's like, oh.
01:08:24
Speaker
I know, I know. It was a Stuart moment. I know I met it once. I remember your name. But I was like, what? I know Rick. I knew Ron. I know Rob. I know all these people. I'm like, I know these motherfuckers. I knew you, bitch. But yeah, I mean, and that's what i um'm im that I'm grateful for that. you know it's I'm grateful that the friends that I grew up with are still sane and and and and and have grown. And I'm a um super grateful for,
01:08:54
Speaker
The fact that, you know, and and I'm hoping like Stuart said, as we as a generation are coming in connections with this, that having those conversations, that the younger generation sees us having those conversations and then continues to open up to them, or shit, ah they might even have been the ones that motivated this crap. I think they're better at this than we are.
01:09:17
Speaker
Yeah. Which is good to see. Not all of them, obviously. Some boys are still stupid unless they're in the whole shit that they read, ah that they hear online and all that shit. But they're getting there. Yeah, it's going to be. I mean, when you think about it, too, it's like, well, we've got to re reprogram this computer. We've got to or the grooves of this record are go so deep. How do we repress this vinyl so that it has a difference? A lot of people not going to understand what the fuck you just said. It's OK. He's talking. He's talking. about
01:09:48
Speaker
you so to sit five But yeah, i mean that that conversation happened today because we had a ah professional development day at school and it's it's it's the the the COVID takeaways. you got We look back at those and go, what's a COVID takeaway? And that's our addressing mental health.
01:10:05
Speaker
and not just toughen through a class because I've got to get a grade or I have to learn this content. But I'm a human in a room surrounded by other humans. And there's an adult human who could be aware of what I'm going to because maybe they did when they were a kid and not ignoring that because I have a lesson to teach. But also or being aware of that. And then when that lesson you're done teaching, you then give that few moments or a second to to a student to help them recognize that you see them.
01:10:34
Speaker
And they're not just a number sitting in a classroom of 36 other people. and And we're constantly having that conversation. And especially with students with disabilities, I always talk to my my students' parents about, me you know, depression happens to everybody.
01:10:51
Speaker
yeah Whether you have a disability or not does not make you, you're not gonna be impacted by that. you know it It is a real thing and the more that we're allowing ourselves to address it and not look at that as a sign of weakness, but to see that as true masculinity.
01:11:09
Speaker
yeah So to come all the way full circle from the first question that Ian asked me at the beginning of this, what did i think of what you know what do I think masculinity is, is that I think when we actually, for a you know masculinity,
01:11:23
Speaker
I guess then and then my mind starts going, it's like, okay, what could masculinity be for either gender? Why is masculinity only have to be something? Could we create a definition? Could we redefine that term or word to just be have multiple meetings, but it means like you're you're in touch with yourself, you're able to allow yourself to be emotional, be open, allow criticism, allow reflectiveness, allow yourself to empathetic. Yes, that E word. Because then I think about it, again, like I said, in in thinking that I was going to be on here with you guys,
01:12:04
Speaker
I started thinking about, well, my wife will say that I do a very good job of trying to be hyper aware. And I try to do, you know, not realizing, and as I grow up later, realizing that my um was the privileges that I've experienced throughout my life by being one tall, being a ah large white guy, and and not realizing, and then how that has affected how I navigate through certain parts of my life. I have the worst road rage. Yes, he does. Because i in if I'm standing in line with you, you wouldn't cut in front of me.
01:12:46
Speaker
If I'm at the line for the movies, you're not going to cut in front of me, but you're going to cut off. You're going to cut me off. So the weird way my mind is wired is that it's the audacity that you would do that. No one ever. But it's like when you're in a car, it levels the playing field because you're in a car and you're not identified as like a bodybuilder or a giant dude or what. or anything, you're just forward with it. Yeah, you really are an inanimate object with some hopefully functioning brain operating that system. But I've realized that my lack of empathy
01:13:23
Speaker
has triggered a lot of that and that's where my wife's been trying to help me to like tap in and be like you know one your health will probably improve and your cortisol levels would go down if you just kind of like didn't stress out about this stuff and maybe thought about oh well maybe this person's having a bad day or be empathetic instead of immediately think that person's a dumbass it is really hard though when you're in a car because you automatically go you fucking what the fuck you fucking fuck it's crazy somebody will pull you off and you honk and then they give you the finger and you're like like if somebody cuts me off but like I'm driving on the street and somebody cuts in front of me and then I honk and then they give me the finger and I'm like wait I just acknowledge
01:14:10
Speaker
What? I don't understand that. But from their point of view, they were just pulling out. Yeah, exactly. you're not You don't exist in their reality. Or they can't take the fact that they got called out for being a douchebag. You're an NPC. defense You know what I mean? Yes. That's the problem. But yeah, I think I'm hoping and I'm um'm excited.
01:14:32
Speaker
you know I got to listen to a group of students today. We had a student panel and they gave us their honest opinions and reflections on the teachers at our campus and and to listen to the generation that's going to school now yeah and hearing how enlightened they are. They said things I never even thought of until like probably five years ago, i let alone even consider when I was in a high school.
01:14:56
Speaker
i My awareness of the world and in all that was non-existent to that level. Is this general population students or your autism students? Because I've got to be honest, your autism students, that sounds fucking brutal. Well, and again, we did have um representation across the board and there was a couple of students there with autism. and And one spoke a lot on neurodivergent students and things like that. Nice. I went to a conference once, and I i heard somebody just say, look, honestly, there's neurodivergence, but we're all neurologically diverse. We all technically have a different brain. And I'm like, well, why don't we just level the playing field and stop? you know it's like this is you know I don't want to take away the attention and understanding that is necessary in order to understand people that are impacted by autism.
01:15:48
Speaker
And I'm excited and hoping that this ah mental health awareness will spill over into a culture of understanding and acceptance into this neurologically diverse culture.
01:16:02
Speaker
It's not a handicap. You're not capped. you're not it's it's It's just different. You experience life different. you know and and And sometimes I get really mad because we still live in a generation, in a world where the expectation is that they fit into the mold that we're currently in. And that's not fair. Because some students I have when put into that position are their reaction to that is to self-harm themselves because they can't deal with what we're trying to make them deal with. And for us to just say, because that's how we were raised, you know just just deal with it, toughen up whatever. Yeah, this is what you're supposed to do. well well yeah well Why?
01:16:43
Speaker
and and And I get it, i get it creates some resilience here and there to an extent, but we have to become aware to like what level of cruelty could this also be? There's a level of disregard. there's you know when When it becomes so much easier to widen our view of how everybody views, I think that's when it becomes a hug. We've widened our view and then we can all- Oh man, on that note. On that happy note.
01:17:13
Speaker
We have two questions in the show. That's awesome, Jay. The first one, which he answered very eloquently and looked right
Conclusion and Reflections
01:17:21
Speaker
back at the end. I like that. I was professional. And then we have the second one, which is Jay, thanks for coming on. It's been a great conversation. We've had a great time this week.
01:17:32
Speaker
Lots of fun. And I've enjoyed listening to your other episodes. So at first, yes, I got nervous. And then I was like, no, man, I remember listening to it going, dude, I would love to sit down here and chat with you, dude. Awesome. Thank you. So the question is, what's the manliest thing you've done this week?
01:17:50
Speaker
I request for base, base parts. That's what he's done. i Being defiant makes me the man that I am. um I wore a ah Captain Jack Sparrow wig yesterday, made me look pretty manly. Nice. um
01:18:10
Speaker
Again, it's ah It's a loaded question because, therere you know, the answer will determine a possible glimpse into how I view the term manliness, which, you know, oh, I lifted heavy weights at the gym. Well, has nothing to do with whether I was a man or a woman. That was something I paid by somebody to make me do.
01:18:31
Speaker
um
01:18:41
Speaker
ah
01:18:46
Speaker
Yeah, if well i'm I'm trying to look and it's like I think one of the most maybe manliest things I did it's kind of vague but it's like I another day at school at work, I saw somebody kind of just, you know, in an inappropriate teasing kind of situation going on. And I interrupted it. And then I chose to just try to have a ah very non aggressive or attack type of response to the person who was being like, I tried to use empathy towards that person. And
01:19:22
Speaker
I've realized that I'm trying really, really hard to come from a place where I'm trying to understand what another person could be going through and using empathy. Holy. What's up, cat? You know, down on a serious point, and my cats just like all of them are like, dude, you've been sitting in the same place for way too long.
01:19:47
Speaker
This is Luke, our boy Kat. But the most manliest thing I i did this week was use, instead of responding aggressive or negative and having coming from it from what I think, you know ah an aggressive standpoint, I stopped myself and I tried to take a look at it from a more empathetic and understanding and and thinking about like,
01:20:16
Speaker
wow what well what way What might have they been going through which caused them to then feel they needed to do that to somebody else? yeah you know it's it's like For a second event, I pulled all the way back to like, did somebody not give them the hug when they needed a hug when they were little? you know And then it continues to go and and and That it has, it has ave been a release. So yeah, this week there was that moment where I was able to apply it to try to help a student understand what they might be doing. And then also show them that a guy that looks like me as a teacher, isn't just going to come and yell at them because that's what they expect. That's a quality answer, sir. I like that too. I like it. I like it a lot. Thank you.
01:21:00
Speaker
Jay, thanks again for coming on. We're out of here, guys. Have a great week, everyone. good you to Enjoy, guys. Bye, guys. Bye.