Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 39: Things get wicked political with Tom
37 Plays17 days ago
Tom, a journalist, comes on and we go over politics, punk rock and more!
You can follow Tom and all he is up to:
thisweekinworcester.com
Join the Masculinity convo on X & TikTok:
@txmpod
We are now on Discord as well. Please excuse the growing pains there.
https://discord.gg/SrUmwFcu
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Arrival
00:00:31
Speaker
Are you guys ready? Yep, I guess so. All right. Hey, kids, welcome to Toxic Masculinity with Ian and Stuart. This week we have an old friend of mine, Tom, who should be nice in Massachusetts, feisty, I'm sure. How are you doing, guys? I'm good, how are you? I'm tired, but I'm glad to have this conversation, man. Yeah, but it's a nice
Theme Park Industry and Band History
00:00:53
Speaker
time. You've been having a fun day at IAPA, right? Yeah, it's a lot of walking, man.
00:00:58
Speaker
IAPA Tom is a trade show for theme park stuff. So I've been seeing all kinds of like crazy shit all day, like animatronics, rides, roller coaster, like cars up close, even inflatable stuff, all kinds of food people want to sell. It's crazy shit. Super fun, though. Florida stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And Stewart, for you, since you don't know, but Tom and I used to be in a band together. Oh, right. OK. He was my screamer singer type thing. Yeah, something like that. Nice.
00:01:27
Speaker
I still get the itch and then I realize I'm old and and then I don't have the itch anymore. I even wrote a song and I was like, here scream on this. He goes, I don't know if I have that in my brain anymore, man. After asking me if I was fucking around like a year ago about telling him I was going to write him stuff. Austin, right? That's not being state of jesuss in the right state. yeah Yeah, but it's the right state. Yeah. It's just you when you said more.
00:01:53
Speaker
I was like, oh, I know that accent. ah western one yeah I was a non-Connecticut person. Nice. In a Connecticut band. It's always good to have a foreigner in a band, right? oh Yeah, we had a we had a girl in ours. That was our foreigner.
00:02:12
Speaker
was there, but we, I think, I mean, there was two bands at the time around Belfast that had girl singers. So we were different, which worked out, worked to our advantage. Yeah, that wasn't very common for us. Usually like a girl bass player we would see or something. Oh, girl bass players are always hot. That's the wrong thing to say. I'm telling, I'm telling. I'm a word that's very, very misogynist of me. No, no, there's something about a girl playing a bass. There's something about a girl playing a base ahby they I mean, you're not going to get an argument from me, sir. And drums, drums work. Jesus. Yeah.
Exploring Masculinity: Balance and Leadership
00:02:48
Speaker
So Tom, what does masculinity mean to you? Well, Stuart goes and fucks off. Fair enough. Happy fucking off, Stuart.
00:03:00
Speaker
ah So, ah I've obviously listened to the show and and gave this some thought. ah You know, short version is is acting right. And ah um I think knowing when to kind of expose your alpha you know, when you need to ah to quote to to quote Don Corleone, to quote act like a man, um and when not to, right? And when not to show your alpha side and be supportive, right? When to lead and when to not, ah I think is ah
00:03:36
Speaker
a good way. I mean, maybe maybe that's a bad example of masculinity, but um you know when when to act, when to expose your alpha side, when to jump into any situation and you know act like a leader, act like a quote man.
00:03:53
Speaker
a and and and when to you know be supportive and when to know when to not have to lead or not be the alpha in a situation. right so And I thought of this through the context of you know ah ah you know a woman you might know a woman you might know does anything and the men man's propensity to stomp on it and be like, no, we'll do it this way. ah you know That's what I came up with.
00:04:21
Speaker
um
00:04:25
Speaker
Well, I can, ah you know, I can out alpha the best of them. Yeah. Interesting. Right. This is third. This is episode 39, right? in Yep. Yep. thirty This is episode 39 and you're the first guest to come on who has seen the positives in the alpha moniker,
00:04:45
Speaker
which is interesting. So it isn't always bad, right? no and no i i don't I mean, there it's it's ah quirky science at best, but from a from a ah heading point of view and the thesis of this conversation that we're having, it makes sense. So it's interesting that you're the person the first person to kind of go that when am I going to be alpha and when am I not going to be alpha? And i I would find that hard too, not just with women or just in any social situation, because I tend to ah get excited. My brain runs away and I get very loud and take over.
00:05:33
Speaker
um i try And I've been trying to hold that back. I mean, you wouldn't know if I'm listening to the podcast, but and i i kind of it's it is an interesting avenue of thought. Tom, when you say alpha, I know like the scientific side of it is bullshit. We all know that like the alpha beta thing is kind of bullshit, but it's a specific meaning when people say, what is it? Just so everybody knows exactly your mindset, what do you think of when you're saying alpha?
00:05:58
Speaker
When to ah you know ah assert yourself, you know whether it be leadership or just just asserting yourself appropriately, so it's either you know helpful to a situation you're coming to, or if you are the leader of something, whatever a thing might be, that ah you know you're treating people not like they're subordinates, but you know partners. or you know equal partners and whatever whatever it is you might be doing. rather So don charitable work or you know anything we organize, really anything. right um you know it's a and i try to I try to take a positive ah spin on this. right like you know What is masculinity in a positive way rather than being toxic? right yeah yeah ah Asserting one's alpha side can become toxic very quickly.
00:06:40
Speaker
what what What kind of toxic stuff have you seen, like especially recently or even like anytime, I guess? like what What kind of stuff have you seen that you would classify as toxic? Not that you don't have a whole treasure chest to dig through, but still.
00:06:53
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean, and certainly for me, right?
Activism, Journalism, and Political Dynamics
00:06:56
Speaker
ah is Is coming into a situation and then look like I'm a journalist full time. So my job my job primarily is to learn about stuff, right? Like if i can't if I don't understand it, I can't tell you, I can't explain it to you, right?
00:07:09
Speaker
um and So, drop it into whatever a situation, like ah you know and an activism situation politically is a good example. ah you know I come in and I'm coming to something that's already formed, I learn about it, and you know then I have all my ideas of, this is what you should do, and a combination of being from Massachusetts and having... We're kind of bold people and we say fuck a lot. Yeah, and abrasive. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. A lot of people in Massachusetts, right? Yeah, Boston. There is, there is. That makes sense. And I'm a, you know, I mean, I'm born here, obviously third generation, but I was like, third generation. um But, ah you know, I'm going to Sicilian last name. So that comes with its own, you know, alpha traits, if you look at it stereotypically, right?
00:08:02
Speaker
ah And so ah you know that's what I came up with. I don't know if it's a good answer or not. That's what I came up with. is is these is So I know that you do a lot of politics, specifically local in your area. um So I'm curious, like what kind of stuff do you see that's troubling you for men right now? like I know you guys cover a lot of stuff, especially in local mass. but Yeah, I do, you know, outside of like, here's the result of the elections and it's usually here's the result of elections locally, right? This is how people in my city voted. um ah But I mean, it's all it's all local stuff.
00:08:36
Speaker
I mean, you know, it is somewhat, uh, still very, especially in politics, very patriarchal, right? I mean, even locally, uh, you know, ah there, there are certainly ah women like in our city council. Um, but, and and I like the guy, I'm not, I'm not, uh, I'm not, I'm not pooping on him, but you know, we've had the, the, the mayor, we have a city manager, so the mayor is actually kind of president of council, right? It's been the same guy for 20 years, uh, or he's in eight terms, so it's like six, 16 years. Uh,
00:09:05
Speaker
you know And he's an older guy. Again, I like him very much. And he's actually quite effective at what his role is in that. But ah you know I say I don't think Jesus Christ could come down from heaven and run against him and would lose ah because he's been at it so long, knows everybody, et cetera, et cetera, right? And we're talking about a city of 200,000 people, right? It's not a huge city. um yeah So you know ah the the world is still very much patriarchal in a lot of senses. um Definitely.
00:09:35
Speaker
And it's kind of, seeing seeing seeing the old God, especially old, you know, I mean, we're old now, but men older than myself, um you know, trying to, ah you know, act in a, or or adapt to kind of progressive values about, you know, equality, equal rights, et cetera, but having trouble kind of letting go of of the throne, whatever. And when, win in multiple different contexts, I don't even mean this person specifically.
00:10:02
Speaker
um So, it it is ah kind of given given way to the new world, as with anything, right? Change is hard in ah in my city. Change is hard. ah But, you know, seeing seeing men, like, handing things down to the next generation, whether that be women or or just young people in general, ah you know, is still a struggle, right? I mean, look at ah Congress, you know, I think everybody's 80 years old at this point.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much. Feels like so good. So, you know, kind of a seeding way for the next generation. and And, you know, in that generation, of course, kind of the the boomers and still ah are, you know, be boomers now are very reluctant to kind of move on from control of i there everything. Right. Yeah. I agree. It should really be. I mean, this is, you know,
00:10:52
Speaker
So we bet Logan's running. I'm not saying kill them off. It should be age limits because at a certain point, it ain't going to fucking affect them. This work that they're doing, because the work that most politicians do doesn't work isn't things that affects the people straight away. It affects people in the next decade and most of them ain't going to see it.
00:11:15
Speaker
So, yeah I mean, unless unless they have, you know, families that they give a shit about, but most of the time it seems that they want to give a shit about nine in their own fucking wallets. Yeah. I mean, that you know, the Republican leader in the Senate here, Mitch McConnell, he finally stepped down right there. They just elected a new leader. Is that the turtle looking guy? Yeah, exactly. So you had a fucking stroke on camera.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, g I think he passed away about 10 years ago, and they've just been kind of propping him up with sticks. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, you know, and I don't credit the man for much. He's not ah my cup of tea. But you know, credit to him. I mean, he's he still ran, he's still serving, but he at least gave up leadership at I think he's 80.
00:11:58
Speaker
He did. And like, he does have his, he does have his line in the sand. Like he won't cross as like fucked up as he is. But I mean, they're all kind of fucked up in some way. There's, I mean, not to say that one side isn't definitely more fucked up than another right now. but To be honest, Andy, what he wants to do, that job is definitely twisted in the head. A little narcissistic, probably. I mean, you know, I, I, I've long held, I would love the job. I don't want to do the campaign. Campaigning is horrific.
00:12:25
Speaker
It's crazy. It's awful. It's awful. It's not about, because it's not about politics. It's about the person. It's It's a popularity contest. It's essentially Miss America.
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah, in a way. I mean, at the local level, it's a little different, right? It's a lot more to do with personal connections. I mean, we have... We were just under 20% in our last municipal... so For turnout in the elections, we're just under 20%. And that was like, oh my God, we're almost at 20%. 20% turnout for voting. Yeah. For local elections. Yeah, all for local. Yeah, for local. Local elections. For our municipal elections. That's insane. Yeah, people don't belong here, dude.
00:13:05
Speaker
For the election last week or two weeks ago, that was like 55 or something. That's about the average. Yeah, but we had like 19% and change last year for our municipal elections. We were like, oh my God,
Voter Turnout and Civic Participation
00:13:20
Speaker
where was that 20%? Which is ironic too, because you think the local stuff is the stuff you can actually touch the quickest and easiest, and it's the ones that people don't turn out for. Yeah. People probably think it doesn't matter or something.
00:13:33
Speaker
Maybe. Yeah. was well I mean, like whole list of reasons. um But I think primarily, you know, when you talk about national stuff, you're talking about these massive issues that would or do touch everyone. But I mean, as far as, you know, things that touch your life on a frequent basis, your local government is making those decisions, right? Yeah, exactly.
00:13:53
Speaker
you know Whether it be how much funding for your school and largely the quality ah of your schools or you know whatever it might be. ah you know That's the stuff that ah maybe not you know huge issues like we have like healthcare, for example. ah But you know ah from from the condition of your road to the quality of your schools to you know stuff that you you deal with every day. But it's also confusing, government's confusing.
00:14:16
Speaker
it's yeah It's too confusing man here, especially there's too much red tape and bullshit and too many layers and like nonsense. Like it should just be like, you know, this this is what this dude wants to do or woman wants to do and fucking pick one. But it's not that way. It's really just not that simple.
00:14:31
Speaker
And yeah since we have, since we have largely a two party system, it's usually winner take all. So that's also kind of fucked up and makes things harder to say in the, in the UK, it's essentially a to for more or less a two party system as well. There is other parties that get a certain amount of, you know, votes and things yeah in Northern Ireland and in Ireland.
00:14:53
Speaker
In Northern Ireland, we have a very so very specific kind of ah parliamentary procedure and constitution that basically there has to be both sides or all faiths represented yeah within our parliament to basically stop us shooting each other.
00:15:17
Speaker
and It's kind of like a coalition, but not a coalition. In Ireland as a whole, most um most governments coalitions. In Europe, it's the same. They would be coalitions. So they have to go, right, well, you kind of think like me, we can work this together. And if the main party does who built the coalition, does something that fucks it up, their government will fall.
00:15:49
Speaker
Yeah, and that's a more interesting take on democracy because you're not like, right, we're in power. Let's fuck these people. Do you know what I mean? And the people have more of a choice to go, well, I voted green. Well, greens are getting into coalitions, so they will actually have a voice or whatever. I'm not saying I voted green. I have in the past.
00:16:12
Speaker
and You know, it's just one of those. it's kind of It's kind of more interesting and that's kind of what our government is here, although our shark comes to. But um again, anyone who wants to do the job shouldn't be allowed to. you i can i've have Have you ever heard the theory of um all governments should be run the same as jury duty?
00:16:41
Speaker
Weird. Right? So the theory is everybody has to do jury duty. Everybody should have to sit in government. When your name's called, you go, you do it for a year, whatever the fucking term is. You get paid for it. Your job gets put on hold. You get paid for it. You go into government and everybody has to take their turn with fair representative voice, fair representative of the people because it's done by a ah wide section of the people.
00:17:11
Speaker
that's was I'm like, that's a very interesting take on government. I could go very bad places here. It's interesting, but it could go very bad places. Yeah, because look at juries. Juries have to be, you know obviously juries are are set up. so you know It's kind of, it's packed by a random selection of people. Well, if you want to really dig into juries, there is still a selection process by lawyers. There is, but, you know, it's interesting, but still, I mean, that could go very wrong here too. That's an extreme end of, of I don't want to say necessarily in a bad way, but it's an extreme end of participatory government. Right? wills i imagine i You That's your turn. You're a fucking, what?
00:17:56
Speaker
How do I get out of government duty? How do I get out of government duty? God damn it. Do you know what I mean? But that's the thing, because nobody wants to do jury duty. Nobody should want to do government, but they have to do their civic duty every so many years. And they're like, motherfucker, let's do it. I'll do it as best as I can.
00:18:15
Speaker
to to do so i don't I don't know that much about the like the construction of of Northern Ireland government, but I mean, just using the UK, for example, you know there's ah there's a few greens in Commons. There's a few Nigel Farage's stupid new fucking party. There's one Nigel Farage, and you'd think, oh, yeah, there's one. There's one. And he's a fucking shit cunt of the highest order. Oh, the highest order. yeah ah I would never tire of punching that cunt in the face. I ain't going to be honest.
00:18:45
Speaker
Um, so, uh, you know, we have a bicameral system, right? So, I mean, we have 44, 135 in the house of representatives and a hundred in the Senate. Uh, and so, you know, five 35 and there's a handful of independence and there's other, otherwise everybody else is a Republican and Democrat. There is yeah no diversity, no diversity. Well, I mean, you'd get, I mean, well, the last parliament, of you maybe would have got 50 of the S the Scottish party, yeah s and p and you know, and then all that kind of thing. So it was a bit more kind of, a bit more spread out. and then Really? um They have the, I forget what they call it, the New Democrats or something like that. They have a, I forget the name of the party now, but they there's also- Liberal Democrats? Liberal Democrats, yeah. and They fuck themselves up by getting into coalition with the Tories.
00:19:36
Speaker
Well, right. yeah But I mean, you know, in general, there's there's five or six parties right now, I think yeah think five yeah total. I mean, one is one guy, but nonetheless, um um but and we we we went over that of the highest order. here And here there's what there's two independents in the Senate. I'm not sure how many of there are in the House, but there's not many.
00:19:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's, Bernie's an independent, right? Bernie and a guy from, yeah. Bernie wasn't independent. Then he went Democrat, right? Is he still like, did he leave? No, he ran for president as a Democrat. He still, he ran for his, no, he ran for his Senate seat again as an independent. but That's interesting. that's That's kind of like, here we have to, so you run as a Irish nationalist.
00:20:22
Speaker
or a unionist and even if you believe in Northern Ireland as a territory ah and you don't believe in the stance, we're part of the UK, each party has to pick a side regardless.
00:20:39
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And it's really fucking weird. You can't say, I don't want to pick a side. I just want to be who I am for this. They make you pick a side. It's part of the thing. Yeah. It's the same same thing here. I mean, all the independents, you know, they call it caucusing with one of the parties, right? Bill Bernie, for example, he works with the Democrats, but he's technically independent. um Thankfully. Yeah. So, you know, ah You know, that I do actually very much think that, ah you know, our founders, quote unquote, our founding fathers, what an awful term. um You know, I mean, I think the thing, you know, the the three branches of government and kind of, ah you know, the oversight mechanisms of the design and the things that they were guarding against, I think that they did a good job, especially the runaway executive yeah failing us now. the certain extent but They should, ah you know,
00:21:26
Speaker
I read a thing the other day that apparently ah Thomas Jefferson said that the Constitution should be scrapped and rewritten every 19 years, so that it's written by the young the next generation. Didn't realize the generation was 19 years, but hello there you have it. Well, maybe back then it was. Yeah, because everybody lived to 40. God damn winning teeth. We would be actually ancient then.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah, we we are fucking agent. We beat Methuselah. Oh, you're not lying. We're fucking agent, trust me. But the you know the idea of, and again, and you know this is a large land mass and now 300 million, 320 million people or something. So like it'd be difficult to hold a snap election, right? um But nonetheless, I mean, the idea of governments can go away and you don't have to wait the rest of the four years. is Yeah.
00:22:15
Speaker
Love it. it's and Because that can happen here. And it does happen here. Because if the people go, absolutely not. It's a voter, voter no confidence, boom, done, next job, let's go. And there can be a lot of pressure, like in the UK with the the last UK elections, it wasn't scheduled. He was, you know. Oh, he fucked that shit up right away. Yeah, yeah. See the rich guy. puting the record guy yeah yeah Yeah, absolutely. You know, we're kind of pressured into calling elections, right? Call us an election.
00:22:43
Speaker
What do you guys think it says about masculinity specifically, even in the women that hold power, that of the people that don't want to leave, like that refuse to like let go of power, even when they're barely standing, like we were talking about Miss McConnell or like even maybe even a Nancy Pelosi. Like, I mean, that's some masculine energy, right? like Absolutely. Unwilling to let go of the reins of power, even when you're already fucking filthy rich. Like what do you guys think it says about those people? I mean, look, it I mean, the list of things that I could would and readily criticize Nancy Pelosi on are, you know, endless, right? i mean any of them really She's in our stupid system. um You know, she's a highly effective fundraiser and probably the best bo vote counter of all time. I mean, she would bring things to the floor when they were going to pass and she knew, you know, so I mean, she was ah an effective legislator for sure, a legislative leader. ah But yeah, I mean, she's 84 and running again.
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, what do you think that says about like unwilling being unwilling to let go of the reins of power? Like, what do you think that says about those people? Like, even when they're barely like Mitch is glitching out. We got pray people running for president that can barely keep sentences to fucking gather, like never answering, never really answering questions, just kind of fucking word salad, like either. I mean, including that because of the trees behind them, like whenever they're campaigning, my obviously my My and knowledge of your government system comes from the news, basic, and the West Wing. I'm sorry. yeah Right? So do you think that some of that is the the weekend at Bernie's effect? So it's the team of people behind them going, no, no, you just fucking do it. We've got the policies in place. so It's their machine that keeps them at it.
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah, i so I don't, you know, I don't really buy into the man behind the curtain thing. um You know, I do think the president's in charge of, of you know, the executive branch of the government. ah But I mean, it's also a thing, you know, it's the biggest employer in the country and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? I mean, it's massive. Oh yeah, but they're gonna fucking sack them all?
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah, which is bad, which is very bad. Like, you know, in general, I don't think people like get revolted by the idea of a bunch of career, you know, government officials getting getting canned. ah You know, just, I mean, I won't go on a long thing, but just in the, in the State Department, you have people that have studied certain areas of the world their whole life.
00:25:12
Speaker
They speak the language, they understand the country and the culture at a level that, you know, if you don't study at that level and go there and live there, buth blah, blah, blah. And so, you know, just the State Department, if they get away with doing that, um the brain drain is going to be massive. I mean, just, I mean, it happened last time. He was, you know, the last time this guy was president was a lot of people quit. And the brain drain is crazy.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just curious still, like, I mean, there's so many people that just refuse to let go and want to,
Aging Politicians and Power Dynamics
00:25:43
Speaker
they won't back off. And I don't know if it's a true drive for their own power because some of them barely know their fucking names. Like it seems like when they're standing there talking, you know what I mean? Or if it's just like autopilot and they're just doing what they do. Like, I can't fucking tell you some of them. Do you think that is masculinity, Ian? Or do you think that is? Well, I'm asking, like, I'm asking about the masculine trait. It is a masculine trait to not, to refuse to let go of the rain. But women can- Yeah, that's why I included Pelosi before when I asked the question. Is it a masculine trait to want to hold on to power? I would say so. So, you know, the old saying, right? Women would want to hold on to power too. But just because it's a woman doesn't mean it's not a masculine trait. But it could be, if, okay, we'll go back to Nina last week. Yeah, exactly, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Of feminism and masculine, where does
00:26:36
Speaker
gripping on the par by your fucking skeleton-like tendrils. Let me put it this way. it Historically, it would be a masculine trait. So I think there was only men in in leadership. Yeah, exactly. So I would say historically that, but I'm, I'm, I don't know if they're just unwilling, if, if they're purely driven by greed, if they're unwilling to let go of power for other reasons, if it opens doors for them that we might even fully are not even fully understand. If it's just at the point where they're barely hanging on and can barely keep their own brain together. Like if it's just autopilot for them. greatfo publish most of them
00:27:13
Speaker
Most of them yeah probably i mean most of them are beyond retirement age and they keep going so yeah yeah. So ah i don't think about that i might ask but so so you know i do try to subscribe to don't you know don't attribute malice when you could it could be stupidity.
00:27:29
Speaker
um and ah and So. so I mean, you know, I can't think of, uh, the right, perview you know, but the athlete that plays two years too long or a year too long, cause they don't want to, you know, there's, I think there's an aspect of just not wanting to let go. Right. This is what you've done your whole life. one night whole You kind of achieved your achieved one of your dreams and now you don't want to let go. Cause oh, I can still do it. You know, nobody wants to admit their old except for us. Cause we're, yeah. That was a pain. A dude. He just did that. for I know it was, but I mean, fuck me. It shouldn't have happened.
00:28:03
Speaker
Dude, whatever. I'm pretty sure if he really wanted to, that dude would have been on his ass in the first round. You could see the life in Mike and then he was just like, uh, oops, I should back off. Yeah. He threw some punches early and then, uh, he was like, uh, it really reminded me, it really reminded me of the end of his career. Uh, you know, especially with Lennox Lewis, he just stood there and was waiting to get hit. Yeah. I mean, credit to him, he absorbed some shots for an old guy. Fucking 58. I couldn't do that shit. No way. No way. But it's,
00:28:33
Speaker
So yeah, there's an aspect of holding on, I think. yeah Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it's like and i would I would see it as an autopilot. You're used to always getting this much money from this this fucking donor. i mean You see, that's the weird thing about your politics is this say unlimited donation and like, what do you call it?
00:28:52
Speaker
um You mean the Citizens United thing? No, no. Like whenever ah people go and plead their case to the government um with money, like the foot at big pharma, and they go and give them money. So but I think we have lobbyists here, but any money that ah an MP gets can only be within a certain amount of money for a start and it's a low amount and any money over a thousand pounds that they get donated has to be disclosed
00:29:37
Speaker
Yeah. like an m piece like We have an MP here called Ian Paisley Jr. and who's and fucking up there with for hours has shit come to the ear. And and he has been put on he's been put on the back bench a number of times for receiving gifts of holidays to fucking, you know, the Arab Emirates and all that shit. And it's like, you just don't really have that. you They don't have to disclose how much.
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah, no, that there was so there are the disclosure laws, but I mean, as far as- There are. Yeah, so we have, ah what, what systems that really led to was third parties allowed to spend money. Like they can run ads for candidates. As long as they're not coordinating with a candidate, they can spend unlimited amounts of money messaging for that candidate or against their opponent, right? Yeah, exactly. so you have these wealthy, wealthy people who are donating you know all kinds of money to these groups or forming these groups. And they just run crazy ads on TV, on internet, whatever, ah in favor of their choice. And they you know give it a spiffy name, the Committee for Blah Blah Blah Progress and blah, blah, blah. yeah um you know They give it some benign name. you know and And the disclosure laws there are extremely lax.
Political Funding and Campaign Influence
00:30:53
Speaker
So those don't help ah super PACs. They don't have to divulge where any of their money comes from, any of it.
00:31:00
Speaker
For example, like Stuart, just so you know, like um I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, we're not, we're not I'm not gonna talk about politics or the pack owner or anything, but there was there was ads targeted to one group in one state And the completely opposite thing was said to another group in another state against the same politician. So like they were just playing both sides. So they were telling one group, this person hates you. so And then they're telling the other group, no, this person hates you. So they were doing that against one politician yeah to make it look like shit. And they don't have to really disclose much about what they're doing. so
00:31:34
Speaker
So there is a lot of disclosure for the politicians. If you donate to a politician, you know you have to give your employer and your your you know job title or something, you know your profession, and you know you name mean that can all be looked up. But these, these you know they call them dark money groups. They don't have to disclose shit. No. this what happens if they What would happen, do you think, the American politics, if they removed that?
00:31:56
Speaker
ah Well, it will probably never happen because ofquiring iquire a constitutional bless require a constitutional amendment and that's impossible to nail. I mean, it's not impossible. It's in the name am amendment. It's pretty difficult here. Yeah. It's it's not just Congress, it's states too. But it would make a major difference to people's trust in politics. Yeah, but you're talking about a group of people that vote on their own pay raises.
00:32:24
Speaker
Well, yeah, so MPs do that too. Yeah, it's not going anywhere. They have an election for us. But yeah, I mean, there are people, you know, in positions of power that think it's atrocious. um But now you're in the trap of, it you know, now the trap is if you don't do it, you're playing from behind, right? If you don't play nice with these groups. so Yeah, if you can you you're you're cutting off your nose just by your face or whatever. um So now now it's kind of a big trap. I mean, we have low we have two. In my city, we have two superbacks.
00:32:53
Speaker
yeah they're running for municipal elections around the house. Yep. And then also like you get the revolving doors of some of the former politicians become lobbyists or get some other kind of cushy job. industry So there's all kinds of like rotating door ship between companies and politicians.
00:33:11
Speaker
Until money gets out of politics here, which will never happen, no no remedy is really gonna help. like You can't, term limits is not a solution, in my opinion. No. Maybe an age limit, but that still gives somebody like a bull in a China shop kind of last year, so they can really fuck things up and take money, like a shit ton of money. The problem with age limits now is that that would be used, ah i would there would be that would go against discrimination laws.
00:33:38
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, look, in general, like, I'm not for term limits, because I think if people are electing somebody that like they should be able to keep electing them. yeah exactly ah You know, I'm working on some, ah you know, they call it city charter here, it's basically the Constitution of the city. I'm working toward trying to get reform of that thing because it's a piece of junk. And ah You know, just talking to the other thing is people don't follow this stuff. Like I'm a junkie for this stuff, but you know, you talk to people. I mean, you know, we have ah what's called the city manager, which is actually an appointed executive of the city who's supposed to be the person who is operating the government. ah So we don't have an elected mayor, but we have it's so stupid. But the the we have an election for the head of council, Congress, the local legislature.
00:34:21
Speaker
um And that's called the mayor. And like the number of people in my city that don't understand that the mayor doesn't run the city is, is massive because I mean, I always say it's not cause they're stupid. It's cause one, they're interested in other things and two, and two that work in two jobs and trying to eat. Yeah. And if somebody's called the mayor, you would automatically go, Oh, they're the, the, yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, people are like, like Tom just said, people are too busy to keep track of everything, but like it's, and it's so,
00:34:51
Speaker
It's so overly complicated here and there's so many people in so many states and everybody's got this idea and that idea and and the sad part is is so much of it is this or that. There's like when you come down to it, you're voting for this person who's gonna do this, this and this or that, that and that.
00:35:06
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like there's not a lot of you got to get people on teams and try to make your gains by inches here. You just got to hope like this person is going to work with this person is going to work with this person and they're going to get you like an inch closer to what you really want because you're never going to find a politician you really love. So from a masculinity point of view, hey, look at me trying to get shit back on track. Do you think it would make a difference if he's had a female president of America?
00:35:35
Speaker
Sorry, the United States of America? Um, so I mean, that the two options that we've had, I mean, have largely been, you know, very corporate backed candidates, right? Uh, so no, I don't, uh, I mean, maybe the management's file would be different. Maybe how how Hillary and, and, in and, and, uh, Kamala Kamala.
00:35:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, look, ah she's a former prosecutor turned politician. She's got big backers, big backers, right? Is that not normal though? It's it's always like solicitors and lawyers and stuff, isn't it? Mostly, I mean, a lot of lawyers, certainly. I mean, that doesn't mean they necessarily practice, but it went to law school, right? Yeah. Okay. Right. Do you think about may like you think it would make any major change to American politics?
00:36:24
Speaker
Uh, you know, management style, maybe, uh, uh, you know, and maybe how the government, like government services are run, you know, again, that's kind of management spot style, but the politics of it now, I mean, it's, you know, we have two parties. They both basically represent the same thing on i mean i mean is the machine regardless of who's at the head of it.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah. And we have these crazy, we have these crazy culture wars, I think, because they're trying to create differentiation because they they believe largely the same shit. I'm going to be controversial as fuck right now, right? Based on that that previous, we've had a conversation there where the machine is the machine regardless of who's at the head of it. Do you think it's still right to be absolutely fucking terrified that Baron von Trumpenstein is back for another four years?
00:37:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's not good. Um, i know it's not yeah he's a fucking nightmare, but the same time the machine is the machine. Well, the difference is that he is the machine. Yeah. Why would, why would, why would it be different if he's the machine rather than Kamala being the head of the machine? One party is united behind one voice between behind one person. And one is a conglomeration of a bunch of different people with a bunch of different ideas, all trying to work together. That is the difference.
00:37:38
Speaker
and that's why And honestly, that's probably is part of why they, the Republicans, are winning, because they have their shit together. Because he's such a personality, for want of a better word. Yeah, and they all fall in line with him. He's a demagogue. yeah and well and if you if you don't you know Even if you take a position against him and you're in his party, he goes on TV and blasts you. Yeah, he goes after you.
00:38:00
Speaker
Here, can I ask a question? How happy do you think McDonald's are that he's always very eating McDonald's? I don't know. Oh, I reckon there's they're sitting on the board and going, that's fucking cool. I mean, but honestly, honestly, Stewart, like, honestly, regardless of your opinion on on Trump himself, that's the difference between the parties right now. You have one that is a conglomeration of groups of people trying to work together the best they can and all also in fighting and then one that falls in line.
00:38:29
Speaker
And they also have their shit together in media, too. But like yeah, I understand. the other The other thing I don't think people often understand about like our two party system is the Democrats are center right. Like, and yeah i know yeah. Yeah. Yeah. name Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:46
Speaker
That's everything. People say left, but it's just left of the Republicans. Like I brought that up before. We're not a left leaning country, so. No, no, definitely not. I mean, if you were a left leaning country, you would have fucking health care.
Healthcare System Critique
00:39:02
Speaker
Don't get stupid. And I didn't say this time. Don't get stupid. Don't get stupid. Holy shit. It's my hot button issue, motherfucker.
00:39:13
Speaker
greatest country in the world, but fucker people. But yeah, right. Right. But, you know, not to not to, you know, pat myself on the back, but I really do think I have the election pretty nailed. And that is, ah you know, people, especially Midwest, um you know, they saw a choice between status quo.
00:39:34
Speaker
or somebody who might burn the whole fucking thing down. And that's how ah how people are doing, like, working class people are doing here. Is they burning the fuck down? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's not necessarily how they're doing. It's how they think they're doing. Yeah, it's not reality. It's just what, it's what they see first person. I mean, they're, you know, demonstrably like ah millennials are going to have a lower standard of living than their parents did.
00:39:59
Speaker
Oh yeah, yeah. I know, but if, I mean, if they didn't phone in sick every day, maybe. Listen, and maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe I, you know, I tend to like be, you know, devil's advocate a lot, but I do, I do believe these kids, even like I'll use, um, it's ah I'm fully aware.
00:40:19
Speaker
No, no, no. I was going to say like like the kids in Florida, um what was the school? We had a school, one of the many schools. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And those kids kind of did like a national thing and it was like- That was a amazing.
00:40:30
Speaker
and the only making like like Those kids aren't poor kids, right? Those are from upper middle class and maybe even some upper upper class kids. um and but it was like But the thing is stupid and I want to see the manager because that needs to change. And like some of these kids, even some of the privileged ones, they're like, fuck that, it's stupid, change it. They're kind of amazing.
00:40:52
Speaker
Yeah. Because they're like. There's some generations. There's some generations behind us. There's some that are troubled with some things, but there's some generations behind us that are just fucking fed up and they have every right to be. I mean, even the kids coming up to have college loans now, like unlike we were at the beginning of it, but they are literally dealing with predatory loans because it's just the way it was set up from the people don't understand that. Yeah. And they're from the government and they're fucking ridiculously predatory.
00:41:15
Speaker
And I mean, even that alone, just see your own government standing against you in that way. It's fucking stupid. I mean, I don't blame the kids that are getting pissed off. Even if it's not the school shootings, like just being mad, I'd be fucking pissed, too. Yeah. Yeah. i Just use that example as like, because again, those are, it's you know, I mean, those are kind of upper, upper middle class kids at least. And just like the whole, no, this is bullshit. It's stupid. Like it's kind of interesting youve mentioned you mentioned class a lot in. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah there's, I mean,
00:41:46
Speaker
we You seem to think about class system more than we do. Because that's how it's divided here. Well, it was one of the reasons you fucking fought us out of the war to leave us because we had a king at the head and blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's what the class system is. But we don't i mean we used to have it but we don't it's not the cm no like obviously you still have fucking class themselves as working class
00:42:19
Speaker
middle class and then you've got the rich tall hoy to tough people But that that they're, they're a world onto their own. They're up there fucking living on their houses. Yeah. But when you think about it here, what is it? Uh, like 1% of the population of the American controls, like 90% of the wealth. that's really same That's the same everywhere in the world. But it wasn't that way here. It wasn't that way here. There was a time when you had a single, a single breadwinner, but you'd have a house, a two car garage and a full family. we same here Yeah. But I'm saying like, that's the way it is here.
00:42:53
Speaker
Yes, but we are the richest, one of the richest countries in the world. yeah know well i mean I know you think you are. But I know that we are. Yeah, yeah yeah ah you would if you didn't spend it on your military. but That still makes us rich, sir. No, it doesn't. and I mean, the pound's still worth more than the dollar, regardless.
00:43:14
Speaker
Yeah, but the world deals in dollars. The the entire world runs off. For now. For now is right. Yeah. kind to be an you know but so like so But the class system here is a big deal because everyone... So they use... But do you think some of that's because you're fed from such an early age, the American dream, that it makes you fixate upon that class system?
00:43:34
Speaker
I don't fixate on the class system, but here's the thing they use. I try to fixate on a class system because they try to divide like the poor black people, the poor white people. But if you fix the poor, you fix them all. So that's kind of and then to see the middle class here, which had decent living. Like I have a house by myself, which is kind of hard to fucking do right now in this country.
00:43:58
Speaker
and ah And it's the homeownership, like the homeownership over in this country. I know, that's what I'm saying. like And we came from a place where like one person could feed, the like take care of a whole household, like multiple kids, a dog, a fucking nice comfortable house.
00:44:14
Speaker
The middle class is being choked here. And and yes this might be this might be my pun and it's getting worse. This might be the punk rock coming out of me. But like, fuck the fucking rich, dude. They just keep strangling the middle class. And it's been I understand. I know. But I'm saying here we have physically like you can watch the downward slide of the middle class. My point is I'm not it's not just there.
00:44:39
Speaker
I know, but i locally I don't speak for your country because I only know my country, dude. So let me put it this way. Pretty much since Reagan, since the Reagan tax cuts, real wages have but basically not moved in 50 years. Reagan ruined everything.
00:44:55
Speaker
um And, you know, we came from, ah um you know, the the the greatest generation, the World War II generation, you know, I kind of frame it as a half a million people went off and died in war. And those that didn't come back in pieces, um they got the, you know, what became over 35 years the most widespread prosperity the world had ever seen in any society ever.
00:45:16
Speaker
yeah And we're not that anymore. We're not that anymore. That's gone. yeah um you know And there's a lot of reasons for that. you know i I kind of use you know working... I've been playing with language, I guess I'd say, on on well like work working classes and in the whole discussion about the election because Democrats just kind of, they pay some lip service to organize labor, which is 11% of the country. But like that they're advocating for workers, not a
Unions, Punk Rock, and Cultural Shifts
00:45:44
Speaker
thing. um yeah And so so I kind of frame it as, ah look, if you earn your money from work, not from investments, because that's two different tax classifications here. yeah um If you earn your money from work, I don't care if you make 5 million bucks, if you're getting a $5 million dollars salary,
00:46:00
Speaker
That's one thing. If you're getting a million dollar salary and $4 million dollars in investment, you know return on stock investments or whatever, you're not working for a living. That's not work, that's investment. right yeah and they you know so that I don't know what it's like there, but here, you know it's a much lower tax rate for what they call capital gains, investment money, than from money earned from work. right so i mean That's how I think it... Basically, that's how the Democrats should approach it, because we we won't have a working a party for the working class. We have two corporate parties.
00:46:27
Speaker
Yeah, because generally, workers parties would be classed for in the rest of the world, especially in and mostly in Europe. Parties for the workers would be classed as the left. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah which is kind of funny when you think how the working class vote in America. Yeah. Well, that's because they've been bought ah bought and sold some bullshit. But I mean, also, if you look at the decline of unions, that also kind of parallels the the the decline of the middle the middle class.
00:46:56
Speaker
So I mean, and I know like most of the world also, if most people don't know, but like people say rednecks and they don't understand what it actually means, but those guys were fucking badass motherfuckers and they were also fighting for their they're their're money. Like they're not stupid people. Like I know how it's used as a cliche, but If you look into that, it's pretty interesting. But I also want to be clear too. like I don't begrudge someone being a billionaire, but don't be a fucking cock about it. like you know Don't complain that you're paying 1%, which means you're paying 90% of the taxes when you have 90% of the fucking money. like People don't understand what and what a billion looks like. That's the problem.
00:47:33
Speaker
Yeah, like I really don't begrudge people being ultra wealthy. I don't want people to misconstrue what I'm saying. But like you there's a certain amount of money. like When we were prosperous, there was like, what was it like? I think it'd be worth about $5 million or $3 million right now. Above that was taxed at 90%. Yeah, so all things yeah the thing about that, though, is like nobody hit it because of all the exemptions at the time and whatever. Yeah, but also they found ways to diversify their money, too, so they never had that income. So they still made money, but through different ways.
00:48:01
Speaker
um I mean, I think it was Eisenhower who said, ah you know, corporate taxes should be high because that will encourage corporate you know companies to increase their vote either either reinvest their money or increase their inventory or whatever, right? If corporate taxes is are high, they'll find ways to spend the money in exempt ways. exemp that Your your you know profit should go back into the company so you're not paying it in profit tax.
00:48:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Back in the company, back into the machinery, back into the workers, back into all of that. And that's the bit that people miss. Yep. You know what I mean? It's a fucking weird balance and I'm not getting it away for these counts. So put it back into something that's going on. Nobody wants to pay taxes. No, they'd rather put it back in than pay taxes. Since we're talking about working class, Tom, I want to take like a sort of a right turn because all three of us are kind of related to this. But as in this country lately, I've seen it a little more often.
00:48:58
Speaker
um It's weird to me that people have been trying to own punk rock on as a political party. Like conservatives are saying it's punk to be this. I've been seeing that lately. What do you think about that?
00:49:12
Speaker
ah They're just curious what you think. i haven't I haven't seen it, honestly. I have, unfortunately, but. Yeah, no, I, yeah um you know, sounds like some ah weird appropriation of a thing that they actually hate. Yeah, you're saying that Donald Trump saying he's punk rock.
00:49:32
Speaker
Because, oh no, I'm just using him as a fucking name, right? Donald Trump says he's punk rock because he says what he wants, does what he wants. Probably. Which are technically the ideas of punk, right? Sort of. Technically. Technically. Sort of. Yeah, but he's not though. He's a fucking billionaire.
00:49:58
Speaker
Yeah. So it's just weird that a political party would try to own because the ida ideology in punk rock is not really tethered to either party. It's more of like a fuck you. Yeah. And I don't think people understand. Right. But I've seen people saying like conservatives is a punk rock. I'm like, what the fuck?
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah. Name one punk rock band and they'll be like, blank 182. Oh, I'm gonna go and vomit. Green Day. Yeah, but even they don't like the right. Yeah, right. I quite like Green Day, but at the same time.
00:50:35
Speaker
This is not weird to me. It's weird to me when somebody... Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, Tom. No, sorry. I was just... say It happens every few years that like there's this like small period of time where people figure out that Rage Against the Machine was very political. And they actually and then they start really listening to what they're saying. And they' like all these you know guys at our age that have now are now you know lean conservative, they're catching on at what they were actually saying back in the day. And they're like,
00:51:00
Speaker
i didn't know this was all political you called gates against the machine well that's like ah Last time, last time, like 2016 elections, somebody was at a social distortion show and Mike Ness was going off and somebody in the crowd was like, I didn't come here for politics, so shut the fuck up. And so eventually he kept running his mouth and Mike punched him. And I'm like, you're at a punk rock show. Like what the fuck do you think is going to happen? Absolutely. like He's going to say what he wants to say. And he doesn't give a fuck what you think. And he's going to shut you up if you don't shut up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is a place where you might get punched in the face.
00:51:35
Speaker
You know, there's no space here. Yeah. Like you can't show up to a punk show and like run your mouth or think like you're going to tell someone to shut the fuck up and you don't know what you should leave. You better have a lot of friends. You better have a lot of friends. But yeah, I just I was curious what you thought, Tom, and obviously you Stewart is something I've been seeing coming up. It's fucking weird. It's really fucking that's people trying to grasp onto something to it's like it's like that meme of Steve Buscemi.
00:52:05
Speaker
but trying to be done with the kids. Do you know what I mean? It's like, fellow fellow fellow kids fuck you. I mean, I'd be saying the same thing of Democrats for like punk is Democrat. I'm like, not really. Yeah. It's, um, you know, I mean, maybe, maybe, maybe a, a, what do you call her AOC? What do you call her?
00:52:32
Speaker
Yeah, maybe, but she's a fucking, she's a wee bit punk. I like her. She fucking, she says what she wants to fucking say and really pisses people off. And I quite like that. as a yeah ah But of all the politicians, I wouldn't say she's punk. Of all the politicians, the most punk of them, in my humble opinion, is probably Bernie fucking Sanders. Cause he is a fucking, doesn't give a fuck. He's probably the most.
00:52:58
Speaker
He held the floor today. I mean, I'm sure it didn't pass. I didn't see what the vote was. I'm sure it was a lot to a little, but he held the floor today for hours ah and in the Senate on a resolution to stop selling offensive weapons to Israel, like, which is not going to pass, but it's fucking shit, though, the whole thing. I mean, if you can call any American politician, if you have to pick one, it's probably Bernie's the closest thing. Absolutely. But I mean, the entire thing of punk rock is fuck the system, fuck the man, like no political party or business or it's it's a working man's fuck you kind of music and scene. I don't know how you know can assign a political party. Right. But I mean, the you know, the sound has been so jacked for pop for pop music that people oh yeah know what it is, you know.
00:53:42
Speaker
For sure. Metal, you mean like Metallica? I really liked it. And then you're like you know put on anything, even Slayer, you put on there like, oh my God, this is too much. that's for me Yeah, I just thought it was interesting, especially because we all have ah a foot in like a punk scene of some kind. So I thought it was an interesting thing to bring up.
00:54:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think it's at least from what our interpretation would be. It's just a, you know, a bastardization of the term in pop culture. And then they're trying to cling onto that because it's fucking weird, man. 50 year old rich lawyers want to, you know, they're trying to identify with people, right? So they're grasping at straws for things that they don't know nothing about. Hello, fellow kids. On um on punk and music and things like that. Whenever you were in a band, in bands,
00:54:31
Speaker
How did you feel about the, did you, you were a front man? Yeah. So did you have to be extra alpha as a front man? No, he just hated everybody, including us. Yeah. i mean so so i like i I loved, well, i'm not again, but the rest of the guys I loved. I get that.
00:54:55
Speaker
No, I mean, you know, I love doing it. and Like, I mean, my best memories of that stuff was practice and like, just us kicking it and blowing our eardrums out. You're morons, yeah. Yeah. You know, I tried to kill Ian with the mic and he tried to kill me with his head stack with the head of his guitar a bunch of times. And, you know, that was our relationship. But yeah, no, I mean, for me like personally, it was just release. It was just like, ah I was angry and hadn't figured out at what yet. And I needed something to deposit that anger in. And that was the thing.
00:55:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we also I mean, we also we we were always that whole scene was all about being angry at people and being outcasts. And I mean, we also did goofy things like if people have like Stuart, I'm sure you were late, but people have this preconceived notion of what we are.
00:55:39
Speaker
But Stuart, you'll appreciate this. We did a Halloween show and we all dressed as nuns, except for Tom, who dressed like a priest. I don't think that was me, dude. No, it's him. So. No, no, no. I mean, I don't think that was me as the priest. No, that was you as the priest. You came out. So we all dressed as nuns. Tom was a priest and he came out and you're going to know it was you in a second because he refused to dress like a nun. So he dressed as a priest and Tom came out and goes, hi, we're dead eyes under.
00:56:07
Speaker
I'm the pimp. These are my bitches. And that's how we started our set. Sounds about right. It sounds just like Tom. That's why he's laughing now. It does. i Even our drummer was dressed as a nun and you can barely see that motherfucker.
00:56:21
Speaker
That kid, speaking of lawyers, that kid's a lawyer in New York. I know, it's fucking weird. um But I mean, like on our band alone, Tom was like kind of into politics a little bit back then and angry at stuff. And our drummer had like Edgar Allan Poe and all kinds of shit. He was in the literature and shit tattooed on him. I'm the one i'm the one with the Poe tattoo. Oh, you have the Poe? I thought Scott had one too.
00:56:45
Speaker
I don't think so. I don't know. Yeah, it's weird. Like just the group of people that come together with fucking Justin being crazy. Like the weirdest dude ever on bass. He was super fun. Oh yeah. The weirdest human being you'll ever meet. Yeah, Justin. He liked very, very old, older women, like 20 years older. That was his preference.
00:57:02
Speaker
It was okay. he's ah He's a strange guy. He was a good dude, but he's a strange guy. He was a good dude. Yeah, he was a good dude. But yeah, so I mean, it was, a ah you know, I kind of get burnt out or just had all this stuff going on in my life. You know, that was back when I was an adult and I actually had a career at the time. and Now I do this journalism shit, so I like to be poor and I hate myself. um But but back back when I was an adult, when I was in my 20s,
00:57:28
Speaker
You know, I kind of got burnt out for a bit and like, it took me six months to be like, shit, I shouldn't have done that. You know, I missed it almost immediately. Uh, but I mean, like Stuart, I don't know. I don't know exactly what it was like in Ireland, but we were all outcast, dude. We were just looking for somewhere to be. Yeah. Kind of all found each other and we didn't have security. We didn't have, I mean, we, we barely even had stages ever. Like I like playing on the floor more still to this day. I think you and I have talked about that Stuart. We didn't have any of that stuff. Like I played on the number of floors. Yeah. It was always fun. The thing is,
00:58:03
Speaker
Yeah the thing is though it kinda spoiled me cause I don't like going to shows that much. I love live music but I don't like going to shows cause I don't want to stand on it. To me a show is not being 10 feet back behind a barricade watching somebody you know what I mean? Like a show to me is being in somebody's face like as part of the family so.
00:58:19
Speaker
Yeah, you might you might get in a fight you might get hit with a microphone, you might get hit with a headstock, ah you know, you might just get hit, you know, taking your life and into your own hands. or it does fun but we all know who It was It was the most fun. It was really funny, that video you shared of ah Henry Rollins talking to, uh, rookies, favorite artists, Frank Turner, Frank Turner, where he literally called out the Ulster Hall for being fucking mental. and I was like, fucking right. And it goes, it goes, it was standing on the stage watching crowd surfers come over and the security guards bouncing them off their head off the barrier and fucking them to the side. And I was like, yep, I remember that. That was me.
00:59:09
Speaker
I was like, messed up. Well, people don't know, especially in the area. If that happened here, though, security guys would be lucky to get out of there alive. Yeah, they wouldn't get out alive. Yeah, the most is security here back at the back in the day, doorman and security at gigs would have been power militaries. So, yeah. Oh, it's there ain't nobody touching that shit, my friend. No, no. But I mean, here we didn't have security. So I mean, we had to please ourselves almost almost never had security. ah But the thing that people don't realize either about the 80s, especially like Rollins era of punk, he's got scars from people like in the crowd there to see his band beating on him. Yeah. Like putting shit, like lodging shit in him and doing all kinds of crap like those guys.
00:59:55
Speaker
Those guys went across the country like eating garbage like if they couldn't find anything like if you you should really get in the van if you have and it's pretty interesting but that era. There are punk is just something different in america that's kinda laid the seeds seeds for hardcore like what came up in the nineties especially so.
01:00:12
Speaker
like black flags, big fucking deals for that kind of shit. But yeah, mostly the same shit. I mean, I changed a little bit. I've gone a little more like to the punk rock side away from the, you know, the metal side. yeah But, ah ah you know, ah um if it's not aggressive, I don't want to hear it.
01:00:28
Speaker
Sometimes dude, you just got to throw on some hardcore, even tough guy every once in a while, listen to just because it's fucking funny and I just makes me want to punch people in the face. I don't, I don't know. I was like i was i was listening to the dead yuppies like two days ago. last six months You know, like, yeah, yeah, dude, dude. Chromags, agnostic front, black flag, all that shit. Like, uh,
01:00:47
Speaker
That shit's like that shit's like the roots here. I mean, yeah. And it's a film you should watch about the punk scene in Northern Ireland in the eighties. It's and called Good Vibrations. It's based around a guy called Terry Wholey, who I think anyone who has ever played music or drank in Belfast has had a pint with Terry because I know I fucking have. He owned a record shop.
01:01:18
Speaker
in Victoria Street, in Belfast, in the 80s. like
01:01:27
Speaker
it was just It was like fucking Beirut at that point. That's pretty cool though, man. people That was where people went and hung out. Yeah. And then a band came in and we're like, uh, fuck about it. And he was like, and he listened to one of those songs. He went, I'm going to put a record out and he put out a fucking, and the record he put out was teenage kicks. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. That's pretty cool.
01:01:54
Speaker
Well, look at Ian Mackay here, dude. He's like the baseline for DIY hardcore, like Fugazi and all that shit was him. Like he started was an SST was his record label is all like DIY, man. Like he started all that shit. still looks like He still does it. Yeah. And there's a it's it's a big fuck. The punk scene in Northern Ireland was a big deal because like i think the punk scenes in ireland especially england and america were like huge things our point a the point the point here because of it was because we were literally fucking everyone was killing each other yeah exactly so the punk kids were like
01:02:35
Speaker
We need something to do here. Do you know what I mean? and we need This is how we need to vent this shit out. yeah you what You should watch the film, Good Vibrations. It is fucking great. I'll watch it. i why should read Once you watch the film, read the book because the book's even better. There's a new Chromags doc coming out on Harley, which I'm kind of interested to see.
01:02:55
Speaker
yeah that's a crazy speaking up to but speaking of Ireland in that time, ah you know, when people go on about, you know, some either Islamophobic nonsense about terrorism, or like, like they have an ah ah like a and a monopoly on terrorism, or, you know, some war somewhere that, oh you know, in the argument of should we be involved in, you know, and usually it's based on race, right. um But, you know, when people like make these like either subordinate culture arguments or, you know, religious or whatever, whatever kind of bigotry is based on. I'm like, wait, why people don't do this? Have you ever heard of Ireland? Yeah. Where did a lot of the money come to keep the fucking, where did a lot of the money come from to keep our fucking bullshit going for such a long time? Where did it come from? Careful America.
01:03:47
Speaker
but It's okay to fuck white terrorism. funny yeah that's fun terror because It's not terrorism if if it's if if it's not them. but's's it's not terrorism not It's not terrorism if you agree with them. That's the fucking thing. It's not terrorism if we're behind it, and it's certainly not and like there was no such thing as state-sponsored terrorism. It's it's it's an not terrorism if you're behind it, yes. It's freedom fighting. yeah yeah That's pretty accurate. yeah unma up like
01:04:19
Speaker
yeah i mean look the the ah ah the clips of Reagan back in the day talking about the Mujahideen as freedom fighters and like that is what became al-Qaeda. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we train those fuckers. Yeah. Look at how the Pakistanis did it with our mother. But, you know, we kind of might have helped that a little bit. It's kind of funny. I mean, most of the things that turn into our enemies, we usually fucking train or have a hand in it somehow for fucking smart like that.
01:04:49
Speaker
the the You know, the other issue that's, that's, uh, people, people screaming about, uh, uh, uh, immigration, you know, illegal immigration here. Uh, you know, it's like, look at, I mean, it's, it's, it's kind of from everywhere now because, you know, COVID stopped it. So there's this big backlog, really.
01:05:07
Speaker
ah But before that, it was all, you know, Northern Triangle countries, as El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Honduras. Not Nicaragua, El Salvador, I forget what the other country is. But in all three of those countries, the United States was very active in kind of overturning their government ah twice. yeah last like And that led to 30-year-long civil wars in like failed states, right? And so it's like... they listen people For some strange people, some strange reason, people seem to not understand the difference between illegal immigration, immigration and asylum seeking.
01:05:46
Speaker
You're here, they just, there's one side is just whitewashed it all is all legal. Yeah, but you can't, it's like we stop illegal immigration by doing this, but it's still illegal immigration. It's still going to happen because it's illegal. They're not asking permission to do it. They don't differentiate between asylum seekers, undocumented people who have permission to be here. It's all just illegal. It's all just illegal. Yeah, they're all legal. They're all legal. There's no nuance because catchphrases and headlines are easier to sell than actual truth. Yeah, it's fucking, but it's not just there. It's the same here in the UK. I'm sure it is. But again, I just don't speak for you guys because you're no better than me because you fucking live there. So I'll wait for you to say that. Thanks for that.
01:06:31
Speaker
I don't want to speak for you guys. This is by and far the most political conversation we've had on this podcast so far. I knew it was going to be. That's kind of why I had Tom on. I knew it was going to go. I have really enjoyed it though. It's been really good. chicken politics This is what I do. So. Actually, it'll be interesting to know from our ah Discord what our listeners think of this conversation. Oh, Jesus. We're going to get canceled again. Well, and da if you're not on our Discord, get on our Discord.
01:06:57
Speaker
We keep we keep going into places and we figure we're going to get canceled. This doesn't happen yet. It hasn't happened yet. I don't I don't think we've had enough listeners. We need some serious press to get the word out there. That's the thing. Careful what you ask for. Oh, fuck them. I don't give a fuck.
01:07:13
Speaker
Yeah, I mean so So I got to local stuff through where I was involved in like a third-party thing that was a grift and then ah You know did some stuff like ah try to do some stuff on health care because I think that's the most important issue that we face ah And then it was you know, it's like one I want to do something I can win at I want to win at stuff and more importantly I want to learn how to win and Yeah. You know, so that's what really i I've kind of, you know, went from these big, you know, national issues or even international issues and like whittled it down to I'm just worried about my city and I'm going to learn how to do this here because, you know, well let's say you got to start man.
01:07:50
Speaker
Well, our greens here, their brand is losing and we're not going to do, we're never going to elevate them here because we don't do losers, right? That's just not American culture. We like winners. And, you know, Green Party has been around 50 years, the last 20 years. It's kind of ironic. And they, you know, the Green Party candidate that ran for president got a half a percent, 50 years in. You got to do better than that. You got to punk rock DIY that shit, man.
01:08:17
Speaker
yeah no we just not like ah they Maybe not nominate this weirdo hippie every every four years. That would probably fucking help a lot. but you know so it's a i don't if The Greens showed me any competence whatsoever I would be all in, but I just don't see any competence. Not locally, not nationally, no competence. I'm not going to waste my time. I want to win stuff.
01:08:41
Speaker
Mm hmm. Which is kind of why, you know, people like Bernie will work with the Democrats because he wants to try to win and he knows they have the power. He doesn't have a lot of choices. So people don't I don't think people really get like where activism and kind of in the system meet. Right. Activism is really its main focus is to move the Overton window. Well, I don't even I don't even think people in this country largely know how the three branches of government work.
01:09:07
Speaker
But even if you're people that are into politics and and do want to listen to this, the left here has this like is is mixing kind of elected people and people in the system
Activism vs. Political Roles
01:09:21
Speaker
with activism. And if you don't act like an activist in office, you're then a traitor. ah AOC gets a lot of this. yeah um you know Then you're a traitor because you're not sticking to your activism roots. and it's like But she's in a position, or anybody that's elected is in a position to actually execute But the window of what's acceptable to talk about, right? The Overton windows gotta be moved by activists and then the people in office act within the window. But they're two distinct roles.
01:09:48
Speaker
I'm going to call that lottery brain, like instant gratification. Like they don't understand that once you get into the power, you have to massage things because you're fighting an entire system. And even if you're not, even if you're even if you're dealing with a presidential change, they typically say it takes the first term just to undo what the guy before you did to get your shit going. Yeah, especially economically. Yeah, I mean, specifically economically. But I mean, it's turning a fucking aircraft carrier. It's not turning a speedboat. You know what I mean?
Debating Government Healthcare
01:10:15
Speaker
So here's a question. If Trump turned around and went,
01:10:19
Speaker
I'm going to dismantle Obamacare, because that's what people call it, and make a national health system. He's not going to do it. But if he was to turn around and go, I'm going to make a national health system because the government ah department of Department of Government Efficiency, and their two leaders,
01:10:39
Speaker
um yeah well shit and they ah said that we're spending too much on healthcare because we have the most expensive healthcare system on the planet. So by most of the cheapest way to save money there and the most efficient way to fix that is create a national health service of America. It'll be the greatest, most biggest health service in the world. and Would you get behind him on that?
01:11:08
Speaker
It was single payer. Absolutely. I'm fine. Yeah. Yeah. Come from your taxes. You don't find dude. I don't really care who pres I don't even if I am worried it if somebody is selected or I don't like somebody, I still want them to do good by the country. Absolutely. The other side of it is he is the kind of fucking I am not a fan in any way. No, he is the kind of dude that actually if he had the will, he might be able to do it.
01:11:38
Speaker
probably, but I don't know. I i don't think he cares. I don't think he has the will. And I don't think the department of redundancy department is going to do anything about it either. So I know. So, so the part of the issue with healthcare care here is one, um, uh, all kinds, you know, a huge people covered, covered, well, they're covered by their employer, right? So they're paying something, but mostly they're an employer pays for it. A whole bunch of people. Um, and they're afraid to lose that.
01:12:05
Speaker
because they don't know what the other side of it is going to be. All the government is going to screw me in the end. I'm going to take away this. I'm going to put this my my insurance company out of business, force me to pay more taxes for worse, worse care. They're also fed that line too. it's Wait, wait, wait, Stuart. We know it's bullshit, but they're also fed that line by the lobbyists in i insurance companies that tell the politicians to say the bullshit. And I have one tiny conspiracy theory to tell them about health care. You know what that is?
01:12:31
Speaker
I think they intentionally underfund the VA because they don't want Americans to see what socialized medicine could actually look like. um social Because they do underfund the VA by a lot. Yeah, but that's because we don't care about- Not socialized, social.
01:12:49
Speaker
yeah but We don't care about veterans at all. I know, but I'm saying, but I'm saying like I do, they do intentionally underfunded. And all your governors and senators, they all get social medicine. They do. They all get social medicine. Well, no, I mean, they're all in a private place. They're all on the, so. They have, well. Yeah, but they don't have have to fucking worry about it. They don't have to pay, go pay. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah that's, that's my tiny conspiracy theory.
01:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if it's quite that. I think it's just we don't care about veterans. That's why the VA is underfunded. Which is messed up no because yes i mean of all the countries in the world, you're the only one I've ever been to. yet Every even Tuesday night, 10-year-old football will stand up for the veterans and it's like,
01:13:36
Speaker
yeah but and that culture of a but eleven on wall street Yeah. its Well, the country the country, the people, like I care about veterans, but the yeah politicians don't. yeah Again, lobbyists, insurance companies. It's bizarre. But also I do think that they don't want you. We've got the greatest military. Want your home. Fuck you.
01:13:55
Speaker
Well, and the other thing, and i you know i don't i don't I don't know what it's like there. um you know ah we We generally get the impression here that you know the S word, I don't even say the word because all of a sudden you know everybody freaks out here. Socialism. Yeah. Socialism is is at least more acceptable in Europe, right? It's not fucking right. It's acceptable everywhere. The problem is you think socialism is communism and it's not. Right.
01:14:21
Speaker
Right. No left. yeah yeah sorry but you think You think socialism and communism are not the same thing. So we have social medicine. What it is is medicine for the people based on your tax system. We know what it is. and But you have a lot of social uh, apartments as well. We have tons of social services, you know, which are your prison services, but that's not it. Uh, your, uh, that's slave labor, uh, your it's all military. It's also privately owned prison, sir. Yeah. yeah part of it you Fucked up that shit. Your military, your government, your councils, uh,
01:15:03
Speaker
an example Well, the example I always tell people is I'm like this. I'm like, you really you have social stuff all around you all the time. You know, I can tell you that. Do you pay a toll every time you leave your driveway to ride on the street that's privately owned? You don't. It's social. And we all own the street. It's social. It's paid for by all of our money. That's all it is. Yeah.
01:15:24
Speaker
yeah That's it. yeah right it's a weird It's a weird thing that I think fed out of McCarthyism and you just can't seem to get away from it. It's bizarre. Because they just keep, again, we are the headline country. Well, that's not only that though.
Market Criticism and Insurance Companies
01:15:40
Speaker
I mean, look, there was there was there was basically two generations of of being, you know, that the Soviet Union was the worst thing that has ever been created. They have they have a health system.
01:15:53
Speaker
Well, it' you know, communism bad or something. Yeah. Even though they were never actually health system. ah ah eight North Korea has a health system. I think it's only you and I ran. It's like, the fuck's going on? Yeah. yeah and you know it's disgusting it's ah It's also ah like 18% of our economy. okay but the and that And that is the problem. But the fact that it's 18% of your economy should be a big fucking fireworks display of, hello.
01:16:28
Speaker
And no sign that it's going to stop increasing. No, no, no, no. And the other thing that bothers me that people don't see, there's two things. People are like, I don't want to pay for somebody's health care. Somebody else's health care. I'm like, how do you think insurance works? You already do. You see that bullshit? That is capitalism because they're trying, they don't want to let go of your money. Right. And the other thing is you are allowing a person who does not have a medical degree to control your medical health.
01:16:58
Speaker
because the people that adjust things and look at things can say no, and they they're not doctors or nurses. They're just people in our office. That's the thing they fear of social medicine, because they're like, oh, the government's going to fucking control my health care. Like, well, at the moment, it's a company who wants to make money, you fucking nutter. So i have a i have a I have a theory, Tom. Ian's heard my theory before, right? So America, the United States of,
01:17:26
Speaker
Can't speak for the rest of the Americas. Don't want to confuse anybody, but you're not all of it. and The United States of America doesn't have pub culture like we do. okay So we have pub culture. When a group of friends go to the pub,
01:17:43
Speaker
We will generally do rounds. So I'll buy everyone a drink. yeah Then the next person will buy everyone a drink. Then the next person will buy everyone a drink. next person but do dooo do doy do And Americans generally don't do rounds. And we came to the realisation because there were some questions came back in our group of friends like, but what if he's drinking a gin and we're all drinking beer? Or what if I'm only having three and you're having four?
01:18:11
Speaker
And me and but rookie, my friend who's from here, and we both went, then you don't worry about it. You get sorted next time. Who cares? It's fine. It's gives it for yeah it's for the greater good. It's for the group. So where i mared my theory is that because you don't have pub culture, you don't learn that some things are better for the greater good.
01:18:38
Speaker
you don't have decent healthcare. So what I'm saying is, you all need to go out and drink more and buy each other a pint. like yeah it's I think it's, it's I mean, I'll draw a career right now, Stuart. Not Barry.
01:18:51
Speaker
but it's ah it's ah it's i tell you i i it's just like and it's ah it's a I honestly think it's an interesting theory. I'm just asking it because you're getting super loud. Sorry dude. It's okay.
01:19:03
Speaker
I do love this conversation though. so ended soon As you said, we have a lot of Irish and you know a lot of Italians here in the Northeast. And so you know that ah that goes way back ah here culturally. And I just say that to say, of course, a fucking Mick who's drunk. What else is new?
01:19:22
Speaker
yeah
01:19:26
Speaker
For those that can't see, Stuart flipped Tom off. yeah but and I guess a higher level, a more political level. I mean, we we worship markets. We think markets are are God's work. And you know we just you know you can say, look, markets have failures and when they fail, you need intervention. um you know To say that here is screaming at the wall. Yeah. I just think people forgot how
Historical Responses to Financial Crises
01:19:50
Speaker
to punch up. We forgot how to do that along the way because we used to fight up all the time and now we just fight each other. That's kind of the short way to put it.
01:19:58
Speaker
I did a, oh, I'm going to forget his name, but I did a a bunch of research at one point into ah the congressional hearings that went into investigating what happened in the depression. And like, when those hearings were done, Wall Street was the devil.
01:20:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. That's the way it should be. I mean, and senators went in. I mean, and interestingly, it was, ah you know, FDR is elected, and the Senate also, I think both houses switched from a Republican majority to a Democrat majority. And the Democrats kept on the like the principal investigator that the Republicans appointed. That would never happen today. and No, that would never happen. Never happen today. And I mean, it was very bipartisan. They went all in on Wall Street. I mean, they, you know,
01:20:43
Speaker
J.P. Morgan himself testified in front of Congress about what they were doing, you know, the banking stuff. And, I mean, it was it was the national rage, like it was national rage at Wall Street. Yeah. But they they' fucked it so many times, you would think people would learn, but... Well, no. Well, here here... So talking about that era, they kind of did like the toad and the boiling water. Like they slowly, they have been slowly chipping away and changing things. And now we're kind of back to where that shit was. We're kind of heading that way. That's kind of what happened here. So like all those robber barons is basically 2.0, just technology and stuff instead of stealing. After the 2008 major crash in Iceland, they jailed the fuckers. Yep. And it happened here. Everybody got money. Everybody got money.
01:21:30
Speaker
but yeah All right, Stuart. I know you're loving this combo, but it's time to ask the question. I am loving this combo. I'm not entirely sure how our listeners are going to love it, but in fact, it'll be an interesting conversation after the fact. Maybe we will get some traction on our cancel this shit. Some hate. The man's name, he's an interesting guy to research. If you want to look into something, a Sicilian immigrant, mind you, his name was Ferdinand Pecora. Ferdinand Pecora. Ferdinand Pecora.
01:22:01
Speaker
PCORA, P-E-C-O-R-A. um and he I think he was the ended up going on to like be the fuck kind of the founder of the FTC and like did all this regulation stuff after he was this investigator, the chief lawyer for the banking committee at the time. ah Interesting guy and like actually did a lot to reform Wall Street. and We've now pissed it all away. Interesting. Yeah, we backslid all the way back. We're we're back to the bullshit. so so Tom, thanks for coming to speak to us.
01:22:27
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if this was productive, but I enjoyed it. Oh, Stuart had a fucking blast. I could tell. I had a great time. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. So you've listened to the show. We have the first question.
Closing Banter: Manliest Thing This Week
01:22:41
Speaker
The last question last question is, Tom, what's the manliest thing you've done this week?
01:22:52
Speaker
This show? Oh, we've never had that before. nice No, I mean, I'm just trying to get back on the show again sometime. no kidding Despite my, uh, you know, I, I, I classified as progressive politics. Um, you know, I'm kind of a dude. Like I, I like hockey a lot. I know. You don't even have probably never heard of that sport in in the UK. Oh, we have a, we have a, we have a hockey team here at Belfast chance. They've won the league a number of times.
01:23:23
Speaker
All right, fair enough. They're mostly Canadian dudes, but it's fine. I was going to say, I think most hockey players in general are Canadian. Yeah, but generally. I'm not much into into the into American football anymore. I kind of fell out of love with it, but ah you know I watch, or at least watch highlights of ah you know the the YouTube recaps of like my local you know Boston teams.
01:23:48
Speaker
frequently and like I'm still into sports, you know, like the punk rock, uh, try to control, try to control my alpha. I mean, you know, Ian knew me when I was young and really crazy. Um, it was fun. Like, you know, I was, it was, they didn't have to flick very hard for them to light that match. Uh, I've tried to, tried to slow myself down and not be such a dude. Yeah. Thank you. Uh, you're still ugly. Um, that's never gonna change. It's gonna get worse.
01:24:17
Speaker
No, so, you know i'm um ah you know, I try to control my alpha instincts or my alpha, you know, ah kind of ah core and and be a little bit more patient with people. And I'm like the most impatient person alive. You know, I have a yes he is plenty of a very doodly qualities that I have tried to, I wouldn't say suppress, but girl i'll grow into in a way that's actually productive instead of being, you know, a douche all at the time.
01:24:47
Speaker
Awesome. They're being toxic to be on point, to be on brand. They're being toxic all the time. Awesome. Going older, going a little wiser. Yeah. It's slowing down. Or just forgetting things instead. Yeah. I mean, look, something will come up right in the news cycle, and like I've got to really like cram to understand it before I can write something. So I feel like my brain still works. ah The rest of it, though, is a disaster.
01:25:15
Speaker
um Oh man, awesome hearts now and the reason and you know Alright brother Tom. Thanks for coming man is awesome. Talk to you, dude. Yes. I love you Tom. Thank you very much Take care everybody. Bye. Have a good week