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Episode 27: Jen talks about Psychiatrist things and stuff.
45 Plays6 months ago
This week we have a Psychiatrist on, Jen. We discuss mental health, a bit of the state of healthcare, LGBTQ, horror, and more.
Join the Masculinity convo on X & TikTok:
@txmpod
We are now on Discord as well. Please excuse the growing pains there.
https://discord.gg/SrUmwFcu
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Transcript
Opening Banter and Drinks
00:00:31
Speaker
right, so we finally got, we finally got you here. I'm going to drink because it's been a week. I have a little, a little lager.
00:00:40
Speaker
Got my Prosecco, very full Prosecco. that That's Prosecco? It's a Rosé Prosecco that we had someone... Stuart, turn your camera for us. You showed Brian. You should show him. Come on in. You're drinking Prosecco by the Goblet there. That's intense. Look at his cabinet.
00:01:01
Speaker
oh Welcome to Ireland. I like how it says cocktails. yeah Wow. Wait, at some point you'll have to open the door so I can see you in it really well because it's, you know. Go ahead, keep can pop it real quick. Yeah, he doesn't mess around.
00:01:22
Speaker
Oh, I love that. Look at that. I'm i'm ah stuck her for design, loving the back of it. And I just, I want that in my house.
00:01:36
Speaker
So much booze when I visit him. yeah Did Brian show you? hate No, because he was in here. ah he No, he wasn't. yeah he He was in his office. He's in his office the first time. The second time he was just out there. He was in here at that time. He's got a pretty impressive liquor collection himself, but it's in the basement. So not anything. Yeah. I mean, that's it's the kitchen. So I mean, i mean it's it's it's appropriate.
00:02:10
Speaker
I mean, it it's a drink. It could be in the living room. If it was in the living room, that would be much more of a thing. All right. Is it, though? Because I keep my I keep my infinity. Never mind. I'm just going to shut up now. Yeah. But if you if you don't, if you don't have to get up to get a drink. Yeah. That's dangerous. Well, my kitchen's right by my living room like they're basically the same room. So is your arm long enough to reach? I have a dog. I'm a teacher. Give me a yeah can me tell this one though. That's why I always keep my beers on a low shelf in the fridge. because then i can kind one of the can could Go and get me. The red went children purple one. None for you this time. All right. Are you guys ready? Yes. All right.
Introducing Jen and 'Toxic Masculinity'
00:03:01
Speaker
so
00:03:02
Speaker
Hey kids, welcome to Toxic Masculinity with Ian and Stewart. This week we have our friend Jen with us. How are we doing everybody? I'm good. I'm doing well. um We just had a tropical storm that seems to have blown through. We're getting peaks of sunshine. The headaches are going away for everyone. With the leftovers that we had this week. Yep. um yeah So Jen, why don't you tell everybody why you are here and why we would call you a special guest.
00:03:33
Speaker
Well, I'm special. Yes, you are. Did you say why I'm here? Well, okay. Your profession, if you will. Okay. I am a psychiatrist, which is a medical doctor specializing in matters of the mind and sometimes other parts of the body because that gets involved in there too. Sure.
00:04:01
Speaker
And just for people out there that are going to be asking, because I'm sure you get asked this a lot too, what is the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist? um A psychiatrist is a medical doctor. um So an MD or a DO. And um we go through medical school kind of like any other doctor, whether it's like a gastroenterologist or a pediatrician or whatever, and then you do a residency in your field, which is psychiatry for me. um A psychologist, what's that? As I said, radio care was, ah okay I'll be honest, I'm glad he asked that question at Walmart.
00:04:44
Speaker
So a psychologist, um although not necessarily, typically will have a PhD or a CID, some doctoral degree, um where they've spent the majority of their training actually doing more work of the mind as opposed to the whole body. um Masters level clinicians who have a master's in psychology can also be called psychologists so that there's a little, but you know for our purposes, it's ah it's a different doctoral degree. So Brian has the PhD and I have the MDM. So it's basically, yeah, it's one's a doctorate in psychology and one is a medical doctorate. Yes.
00:05:29
Speaker
And kind of there's some overlap in what we do. And then there are some definite divisions in what we're able to do. so So now that we got through that fun stuff and the awesomeness that you are here to talk to us, which is amazing. And I'm so grateful that both of you have come here because I'm so excited to be here. I feel honored.
00:05:49
Speaker
but we are the ones that are honored, trust me. We just started doing this for fun and like it's been pretty cool to hear like feedback from like professionals. So it's been great. So Jen, what does masculinity mean to you?
Defining and Reevaluating Masculinity
00:06:01
Speaker
So I've been thinking about this question a little bit and I'm really trying to broaden my definition. Um, but it's been difficult. So typically when I get asked and a relatively open-ended question like that, I kind of bear down on the very like, um,
00:06:16
Speaker
very like clinical sterile definition. um so And I can't kind of escape from that. So to me, masculinity is um and things that are stereotypically or traditionally male. I put that in quotes. um
00:06:32
Speaker
i It could be um
00:06:37
Speaker
having big muscles to um having, you know, hair on your face to um having a very traditional household where you're, you know, the breadwinner, but don't have a whole lot to do with the inner house dynamics that it, you know, there are some negative connotations with that, but there are also some just, you know, kind of neutral or even positive ones as well. What do you think the positive ones are? Okay. Maybe I need neutral.
00:07:07
Speaker
um What do you think the most positive i from masculine yeah i mean well what are the more positive aspects of masculinity that you think people could take in and use for themselves?
00:07:20
Speaker
um yeah i mean
00:07:24
Speaker
ah Again, I'm i'm kind of like falling back into like a superclinical definition. it's it's a it's you know um When you think about masculinization you know and in puberty beginning to grow facial hair, that kind of thing i mean these are very like normal kind of processes. if you you know, as opposed to feminization or, you know, so that it's kind of neutral, but it's, it's not, it's going to tend a little bit more towards like, ah Oh, this is a positive definition as opposed to like a negative, like toxic masculinity kind of definition. yeah So I know that wasn't a lot. It's all good. We'll keep digging. We'll keep digging. We're fine. We're good yeah yeah conversations. Um, what kind of, um, issues have you seen in men recently in your practices?
00:08:12
Speaker
Like ah we see it a lot of like the suicide rate going up. We've talked about that. We've talked about some people no longer seeing a use for masculinity, but I'm wondering in like a more medical professional kind of field, what kind of stuff you're seeing?
Men's Mental Health Challenges
00:08:26
Speaker
Um, so I see children and I also see adults, um,
00:08:33
Speaker
I will tell you that adult men, when they get to me, um are typically, they've already been sort of open to the idea of therapy and addressing kind of their inner worlds, their emotions, that kind of thing that maybe be stereotypically that stereotypical masculine sort of ah
00:08:53
Speaker
way of thinking maybe it would not have allowed them to and maybe in previous generations or maybe um more recently, but they've done some work on themselves already. So by the time they get to me, I'm typically seeing people who are ready to open up a little bit and ah and talk about what's going on and be open to kind of taking a you know more of an inward look, maybe maybe cry a little bit, that kind of thing.
00:09:21
Speaker
dave Is that because they've booked an appointment specifically to see you or they've been referred to you from somebody or? Yes. but um Yeah. So they've already kind of. Yeah.
00:09:34
Speaker
been through a process already. um And the process could be different you know ah for everyone. Some people just kind of um out of the gate are very open to the idea and other other men specifically. It takes them a while to get there. They're kind of like, I wish I'd done this 20 years ago kind of thing.
00:09:52
Speaker
um Teenage and younger ah young men are more of a mixed bag. um Some will not speak to me.
00:10:05
Speaker
They're not there. Their parents brought them and they don't they don't want to be there. um Others are really ready to dive in and um have maybe done their own research or have lots of questions or are interested in the field. So I really see kind of a broad um um a broad presentation, but I do think that overall my patient population is skewed towards people who are already um maybe a bit more aware of mental health issues, that kind of thing than sort of the general public. They're looking for help rather than, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. What kind of problems do you see mostly in some of these men and and younger? Like what kind of things are they dealing with the most?
00:10:51
Speaker
like You can be broad with it, obviously, like you know anxiety or something like that. I don't know. um Anxiety and depression, for sure. um Untreated ADHD, particularly in the younger population, um that you know can be treated. But anxiety and depression, a feeling of ennui.
00:11:14
Speaker
um You just confused, Stuart. but I did see that face. but on winning i'm trying I know I've heard the word before, but I'm trying to get it clear in my head what it means. It's like not belonging or not. It's sort of a feeling of um boredom, restlessness, listlessness, but that it it's ah it's not an excited, okay, so let me figure out what to do. it's more of a i don't
00:11:45
Speaker
just uh like nothing interests me well you know yeah um okay and uh is that not just teenagers oh oh oh honey that's middle-aged men well i didn't want to point it right i can't remember why you gotta call me out in the middle of a podcast dude
00:12:13
Speaker
Don't be fucked. I like the fact that I have a nice empty name for it. What did you say? Oh, I'm practicing my own way. Very nice.
00:12:25
Speaker
um yeah so It's more of an existential crisis in the end. No, I like it. it's good I'm going to use it. I'm going to have to use it three times this week. Do you know how to spell it though? That's the question. Oh, definitely. I am very much dyslexic. I can't spell most things, but I'll give it a go.
00:12:45
Speaker
you know break someone russian um and Is it it' just kind of French? You're close. E-N-N-U-I.
00:13:00
Speaker
Ah, I see. It wasn't, you know, it goes. I think I used my brain part to kind of deduct where it roughly was going to sit. Normally my brain doesn't work that way. It just goes, nope, nope. Nope. On we, O-N-W-E. Okay.
00:13:17
Speaker
you That's kind of funny that there's a name specifically for that feeling of war. Have you guys seen, um, Inside out two. Not yet. No. I haven't seen it either, but a kid actually used the word on we in my office the other day and then said, Oh, I've seen inside out two. So I'm wondering perhaps. Yeah. We shall research this next week is only a character in inside out two. Yes. Not that I remember anything, but I took psych in high school as a class. And I got to watch What About Bob? And that was really fun because you get to poke with all the phobias and stuff. That movie was super fun to watch. For OC babies? Yeah, and don't worry. Good. They tie him to the sail and he's like, I'm sailing.
00:14:09
Speaker
Wait, how about when he sees? He's eating the corn and he's like, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm,
00:14:22
Speaker
you watch great movie um so so what kind of advice do you give people when they're like depressed like ah should they start out looking for a psychiatrist m Um, people should always start by talking to someone and that is not necessarily a professional.
Starting Mental Health Conversations
00:14:47
Speaker
Um, although it may you know leave there, but someone else knowing what you're going through is, um, it, and then often you learn that that other person may have some shared experiences that is super helpful, super helpful. And if you really don't know where to go from there, um, that can also offer some guidance. Um, just, you know, having someone else,
00:15:10
Speaker
to talk to. um and you know Some people come in with a ah very preconceived notion about what they want to do. um If they know that they're feeling depressed, they need to do something about it. some folks are I just need somebody to talk to and great, make schedule an appointment with a therapist. it's um Sometimes it's not as easy as just doing that, but there are online resources and whatnot. um Some people are like, well, I'm definitely not talking to anybody, but I would be open to taking some medicine.
00:15:40
Speaker
um Honestly, starting the conversation with a primary care doctor or or something like that can be an easy place to start for someone who is not necessarily um ready to take the full dive into the mental health field. um But if you really if you really want to just like you're like, I'm going after this, get your therapist and a psychiatrist and we'll take care of you.
00:16:08
Speaker
we Start with the Alexa Pro. yeah let's From my point of view, I spoke to my GP, which would be the... PC. Yeah, PC. So um I spoke to my GP and said, I'm feeling like this. Because what's making you feel like that? I don't really know.
00:16:33
Speaker
Many conversations had, and um and they obviously go, have you have you tried exercise? Do you do exercise and things like that? And and that's the that's the default position, obviously. and Which is fair enough, because you know at the end of the day, exercise does actually kind of help your mental health. But not when you're in dire straits. you know No, but now you're in the depths.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah so the they I was put on medication then and I've been on medication for a very long time so but it took it didn't it took me until okay for this bite oh geez I'm all along with another medication five six six years maybe It took, and I only did my first proper therapist. Hi, I'm here to talk to you. I don't know you, but we're here to talk last year.
00:17:35
Speaker
was the first time I ever done that. Because I was always like, that's not gonna work for me. i yeah you know I always question people's motives. And I don't know why, it's just one of those things you're like, well, you're freaking- I understand. I'm picking my head, that you don't know my head, you're not in here. You're gonna analyze me and judge me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's not really not like that. And that is one of the things that I'm i almost evangelist in getting out to people now that it's not like that because that is what people think. They won't judge me and think I'm crazy. Right. No. and But it's kind of funny that it took me so long to get to that point. Is that common? Yes. Right. Yes. Yes. Sometimes to the point of never really being overcome. you know Right. OK.
00:18:27
Speaker
um
00:18:30
Speaker
But you know if it if it is, it but it tends to come at a time where it's like, that's you know this what I'm doing is it's not enough, what's left? And then you've got enough people or maybe enough, you've heard it enough times, maybe therapy is is something that could be helpful. And then you go, um you typically go and then it's shocking how not judgmental and not, um you know,
00:18:54
Speaker
brain-splittingly analytical it is. yeah it's it's it's It's just helpful. Yeah, it really was. that's kind of and and is it Would it be the same? I always wonder as things, because our two medical systems are very different. And I wonder, would it be the same for... So if if I lived in America, would I go to my primary care your GPs don't prescribe, they would automatically send me to someone like yourself.
Medication and Therapy Experiences
00:19:27
Speaker
No, I've gotten Lexapro from a doctor before from a PCP. Lexapro is, what is it? Anti-depressant? Yeah, it's a first-line anti-depressant, anti-anxiety medication. Dead off. Yeah, primary care or physicians are usually pretty comfortable with starting first-line agents for anxiety and depression and and but pediatricians with ADHD because it's so
00:19:51
Speaker
is there such common diagnoses and there really is a shortage of mental health prescribers out there. um So they there you they usually feel pretty comfortable with it. Yeah. So yeah the the thing is there, cause I've had conversations with people before who have thought about, you know, seeking help.
00:20:15
Speaker
And they maybe go, I'll get passed from pillar to post before anything actually happens. And that's not what happened here. not That's not my experience because I went to my GP and I spoke to him and I literally left with some information and a prescription to get me started. and And from what you're saying, it's the same in America, which is positive. and I think here it's going to depend on the doctor you have. Exactly.
00:20:43
Speaker
Because um maybe maybe General back me up, but I've been to doctors where I just left an endocrinologist because she didn't even look at me. All she did was look at the screen. She didn't listen to anything I had to say. She didn't take any of my suggestions. She didn't do anything. And there are some doctors that just treat it like a conveyor belt because they're just trying to get their money because they owe money for this or that. So they're just trying to get patients in and out and they don't actually listen or do anything. so I mean, there's that extreme and then I've had, my other endocrinologist is like the best doctor I've ever had. And the new one I have is awesome, but there's extremes, like they're people, you know what I mean? So I think that would depend on the doctor you get. Maybe Jen has a better idea of what I'm saying. Yeah. So um slightly different perspective, but ultimately the same result. um An issue that we have
00:21:29
Speaker
with the American medical system is um being sort of forced to see more patients in a shorter period of time. So, you know, if you have a 10 minute appointment scheduled with your primary care provider, and you know, in theory, two of those minutes is meant for documentation. So you have, you know, in theory, eight minutes to go in there and talk about how your world was falling apart. hold two minutes yeah ah So, um,
00:21:58
Speaker
you know that's that's a that's a ah very hard thing. And you don't know with your doctor, especially if it's a new doctor, kind of what you're gonna get. I mean, some will just run late and like take the time they need, but then they're likely sacrificing a lot out of their personal lives to to to to kind of fit within that system. um And um on the flip side of that,
00:22:26
Speaker
you will have doctors who will listen to the high notes and say, Hey, this is what we're going to do. And maybe it's super helpful. Maybe, you know, they hit the bullseye, but maybe sometimes it's kind of like, I got to pass you off to this person. I'm going to have the social worker come in and talk to you or something like that. yeah Um, and, and it, it, it comes from a place of just, um,
00:22:50
Speaker
my, Most providers, most medical providers work for a system where there's constant pressure to see more patients in less time because it reimburses better. that So your system is basically a sell more burgers. Yeah, it's capitalism. But our system is kind of similar. Obviously, we don't pay at the point of use. So that's not a thing here. We pay through our taxes and that's it. So
00:23:21
Speaker
But I know that and all the the hospitals and things like that, got this would be a good reason to have Rook Young, a friend of ours who works for the NHS. and um they have quotas of the amount of people they have to see to try and hit volumes. Not from a, we need to make money point of view, but to cut down waiting lists and waiting times and yeah yeah all of this kind of. So it's essentially, it's the same factory, just slightly different sandwich. And you're left kind of going, and but i I'll be honest, my my doctor's really good. I've never felt
00:24:00
Speaker
Maybe that's the part of ah of ah of ah of a good doctor that he can push people through without making them feel that they're being rushed. I've never felt that rushed thing. And that that especially if you're having a mental health crisis, that feeling of being rushed would would I think have a quite an effect on you? I would imagine so. I will say that in, ah I mean, Brian and I both we've we've sort of opted out of that system.
00:24:37
Speaker
We don't take insurance, which
00:24:42
Speaker
means some kind of negative things, but ultimately positive things. The care that we can provide is not, we're not you know forced to see more people in less time kind of thing. um However, there isn't there is an accessibility issue because it if your insurance isn't paying for it, you're paying out of pocket.
Mental Health Care Accessibility
00:25:02
Speaker
And I don't feel great about that. um I mean, I've been doing it for over a decade like this, and I don't feel great about it. But at the same time, I feel like I by far give my best care in this way than I did before when I took insurance. Yeah, I can't understand hearing insurance companies have anything to say about it. But surely, you would think actually the insurance company would want less people coming through your door, because then they have less to pay out.
00:25:32
Speaker
um So it's not the insurance company per se. It's the system you're working in. but So let's say you see, um and I'm completely making up these these reimbursement numbers because it's variable from place to place in insurance to insurance. But let's say um I spend an hour with a patient and a particular insurance company is going to reimburse $90 for that hour.
00:25:57
Speaker
Or I can see a person in 15 minutes and insurance is going to reimburse $85 and I can do four of those in an hour. And then, and then it's not, you know, that's not like straight cash into my pocket either. That's, that's what actually goes into the, the,
00:26:16
Speaker
the company that I work for and then you know depending you know depending on how your practice your practice is set up, you get a percentage of that or you meet, to we call this quotas, RVUs here, which I don't even really understand how this work because that's not how my practice works.
00:26:32
Speaker
but um but but um Seems weird. I can't imagine any doctor goes in. you grew up you mean we we We boys and we girls grow up with a really medical sense. And then they get really good at school and they work fucking really hard to get to go to medical school. And they spend seven years in medical school. There's seven years?
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah. and And they finally become a doctor and then they have to think about all that madness. That seems crazy that they have to think about that business side of it when really the most people I would say get into that profession to help people.
00:27:15
Speaker
Yes, because you know, I mean, and I know everyone, yeah yeah but they get paid loads of money. Doctors get paid loads of money they goes. Yeah. But you fucking don't go to school for seven years for the crack.
00:27:29
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? So college for four years, medical school for four years. That's eight years. And then you do a residency, which is somewhere between three and eight years. My particular one was five years. Well, there you go. nobody's doing People are doing that because they want to help people. Nobody does that just because it's a you know if if you wanted to just do a job to go and make money and then do that, you can be a stockbroker or something stupid. but ah Agreed. And there's a lot of burnout, a lot, a lot, a lot of burnout. I'm in groups of other physician moms and that kind of thing. And um it the common thread
00:28:09
Speaker
um among everyone has this kind of a level of burnout. And I feel um fairly fortunate because I'm a little bit protected from that um just because of the model that yeah we use. but yeah It seems like seems like either way, like doctors are kind of getting crushed. like In Stewart's case, like doing socialized medicine, it's just sheer volume of people.
00:28:32
Speaker
that are trying to get in. And in America, it's just like fighting insurance companies and everything else and turning into capitalism makes it the same same same coin, different side kind of vibe. And people paying out of pocket is just, I mean, it's so expensive for some. I had one guy quote me 225 per visit to see him. 225. $225 a visit. I'm like, no, that ain't happening. Jesus.
00:28:59
Speaker
That's. He's like, yeah, I don't take insurance anymore. It's $225 a visit. And this is not a psychiatrist. It's a psychologist. And I'm like, nope, that ain't happening. Do you get a happy end of month?
00:29:11
Speaker
wed I better get more than that. Did you ask? so should but I'm just saying, like, I understand that people need to pay and I understand, like, in capitalism, you need to charge your value. But I mean, that's one. At what point is it? At what point are you just lining your pockets? You know what I mean? I'm here to help people.
00:29:30
Speaker
I don't want to be unfair because I don't know how well this guy or person is, but it seems like a lot for an hour. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, it is a lot. We pay that weekly, you know? I mean, it's and a whole lot. What are we saying, Stuart? Sorry. you You probably need to look at what it is in your area and stuff. I mean, from from what I understand, Florida is expensive. Yeah, Florida is expensive. It doesn't really matter what you seem to do there. It's just mental.
00:29:59
Speaker
to Yeah. Yeah. 225. I was like, yeah, that ain't happening. Not even on your best day. so But then would what, it as a psych, okay. Psychologist. As a, as a psychologist or a therapist or whatever, right? I'm going to put this one to you, Jen. Somebody comes in, your price is set at 225. That's what you, that's what you charge for an hour. Someone comes in and down our streets and he goes, 225 pound. And they go, I could really kind of fold down. What happens then?
00:30:29
Speaker
Because you obviously would want to help them. But you can't because maybe the company you work for says I'm going to use 225. So here they would be passed to the NHS and the NHS would have to find a place for them.
00:30:44
Speaker
Um, so we have systems in place here. Um, if someone has, uh, a private, you know, a commercial insurance, um, plan, their, their plan is sort of obligated to help them find a provider, um, that would be in network and would be within their plan benefits. Unfortunately in mental health,
00:31:09
Speaker
There are a lot of people like me who have opted out of that system. I would say more so a psychiatrist than therapist. is probably It's probably a bit easier to find someone with a network. Most of them aren't NHS here as well.
00:31:30
Speaker
So they're not the NHS do you have some, especially for um like acute crisis management, things like that um that that. That's the thing here that is readily available to anyone who's having a real problem. Yes. And we have that here. Yeah. But if you want you know to see a therapist doing that, you generally just pay for it. It's kind of like like dentistry here. After the age of 18,
00:31:54
Speaker
You have to pay for your dentistry under 18. Your teeth don't matter anymore. No. After the age of 18, if you haven't learned how to brush your teeth, fuck you. After age of 18, it's covered. during it's all It's paid for. You get braces. You get all the things that you want done before you're 18. Then off you fuck, look after yourself. And it's the same deal as as you then after that, its we have to pay for it. you know um And so it's not completely alien to me. the That thing, what you're saying, I can understand how that kind of works. It's justs just um having been in crisis point myself, I can't imagine going somewhere and asking for help and having to go
00:32:44
Speaker
Okay, so I can I can tell you here. um So, you know, with insurance, if you're not if it's not crisis situation, your insurance company will help you find someone in network. um If you don't have insurance.
00:32:58
Speaker
um oh It's different in different states and North Carolina is not the best state, um but in terms of the system. Although I'm sure all states say that. But anyway, um there there is an accessible point. like there There's an ah an entity, ah a group that you call that will help you and it becomes a county funded. All right. Okay. Yeah. Now, if you're in crisis,
00:33:26
Speaker
um There are crisis centers and then there's also people will sometimes give to the ER. I typically recommend if they can go to a crisis center, that's better because they' that that yeah that's what the focus is. It's not you're waiting to be seen and the the person who came in with a gunshot wound is going to get seen first. kind of Yeah, of course. you know yeah So we have systems in place for that, but for the ongoing care, um it can be a little difficult. Sometimes insurance will limit how many visits you can have per year.
00:33:59
Speaker
um Yeah. like I'm curious how you feel. like There's states that like if you talk to a therapist and say you're like so like even thinking about suicide, they have to call the state. like How do you feel about that?
00:34:12
Speaker
Like in Florida, like if I talk to like somebody, they have to call the police or something. Like they have to call if you mentioned that. So that like the police or the authorities are aware that you might be suicidal. Just because you have an intrusive thoughts. If you say the words, you, they have to call somebody in the state. I'm pretty sure that's how the law is because I talked to somebody once and they're like, if, if you're suicidal, I have to call somebody. I'm like, I'm not suicidal.
00:34:37
Speaker
but yeah, how am I supposed to talk to you and feel like I can talk to you if you're just going to call somebody? If I even mentioned the word, you know, I'm just saying, I wasn't, but yeah. Um, it may be different from state to state. Um, but, um, here, I mean, it would be,
00:35:01
Speaker
If someone were saying I'm actively suicidal, I have a gun in my hand, you know, kind of thing, um, you would, you would want to get emergency services there. Um, but typically, um,
00:35:13
Speaker
When someone is thinking about suicide, there are non-government lines that can be called that, you know, that kind of thing. You can call, if you have a provider that there, we have mobile crisis units where if you agree, that a team of people will come to your house and talk to you and it isn't, um ah you know, if you're not seen as an imminent safety risk,
00:35:36
Speaker
um There's no need to get yeah the sirens involved. you know um but And then they will typically do a very good job in like hooking you up with services that are needed. um Whether it's you need to go to a hospital or you need an urgent appointment coming up soon or you just need to talk and process what's going through in that moment and then you feel better kind of thing.
00:36:00
Speaker
Hopefully, hopefully you feel better. That's the goal, right? no Yeah. Yeah. I mean, no, yeah, no, that's, that's, that's like the ideal case scenario. you Yeah. ah So this is heavy stuff. Yeah, yeah. know We get heavy sometimes.
Economic Pressures and Mental Health
00:36:16
Speaker
We had, uh, Charlie was on, he was talking about one of his friends, uh,
00:36:19
Speaker
He was mentioning how as a, as a man, he felt more valuable, dead, do his family than alive because of his life insurance payout and stuff like that. So I'm sure you've heard that before. If you've spoken to a few guys, if you haven't, I have too. I've heard that before. but So, um, I'm going to, I'm going to say you you don't have to necessarily be a man to feel that way. Yeah, I would imagine that's fair. That's fair. Um, you know, I think, uh,
00:36:46
Speaker
Oh, that's dark. I mean, it is. But yeah, I definitely hear people say that. And it it tends to be the breadwinner the of the family that may that may feel that way, you know have a big life insurance policy that would ultimately pay off all the family dead and put the kids through college. But right now we're you know struggling paycheck to paycheck kind of thing.
00:37:04
Speaker
um Definitely. It goes through people's heads. It's how stressed people are right now, man. Especially in our country. I don't know about you guys, but over here i tired it's getting really bad here.
00:37:18
Speaker
It's a, but I mean, to have that thought process, I mean, it's just great. I think as dark as it is, it comes from a positive place of wanting to protect and ensure your family's okay. But I think having the dark thoughts is is just a bad idea because there's, I've said, I, I said this too, I think on the show, you're, you're more important than just the paycheck to your family. So.
00:37:42
Speaker
Yes, I love that. Yes. <unk> say i I might use that one. Yeah. That's why I get paid the big bucks around here. it sam yes Yeah, it's just remembering that, you know. Yeah, I've heard people. I've heard only men have ever said that to me, but I've heard it before before Charlie. So it was interesting to bring that up. I mean, I brought up some stuff to like talking about dark stuff like ah I said on the phone for hours or someone who was suicidal drunk holding a gun and I was afraid to get off the phone to call anybody. So I did that for hours trying to talk somebody through that. That was fun. I don't recommend that to anyone, by the way. No.
00:38:20
Speaker
But wow, I miss the sarcasm initially where you said that that was fun. yeah Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't recommend that to anybody. I'm sure it's not fun as a professional either, but I did my best and they're still alive. So I'm happy for that. But that was scary. That was a few hours of my life. I will never forget. It's great. I'm sure with that. Yeah, that few hours, it felt like more than a few hours. I'm sure years felt like years. Yeah.
00:38:49
Speaker
You only got one phone. I couldn't be like, hold on, please. Let me just go make another phone call. I'll be right back. <unk> Hold that thought. It sounds like an excuse to have a landline back in your house. Oh my God. A landline kids is when a physical line.
00:39:09
Speaker
Oh man. Jesus. So what kind of, I don't even know. I'm trying to think of more questions asked to take advantage of a professional. stuewart learning and on I mean, I can be, I can be unprofessional too. I mean, to be you know, wait we're doing im just we can, we can be as professional things and be unprofessional about it. I'm gay for whatever. I just told you what's sarcastic on keeping somebody alive. So we're fine. No, I will say, I will say there's some truth to sometimes you got to laugh about things or you're going to cry. And not that crying is bad, but you know, that's, that's just, it's tragic. I mean, it's, it's tragic.
00:39:45
Speaker
Yeah. For a person, someone you in theory care about, I'm assuming this is not somebody you didn't care about. Not somebody you care about. It's a friend. Right. Yeah. and terrifying um that's It's It's and it's horrible for them and horrible for you. and Sometimes we we got to just add a little bit of levity to it to make it through. Yeah.
00:40:08
Speaker
but Yeah. um Do you see, I'm just curious, I'm going to open up a new box of trouble for so for us, Stuart. Do you see and treat any trans people? Yes, quite a bit. Can you explain the process for the people that think that trans people are just kind of like willy-nilly deciding their gender a little bit? Can we talk about that a little bit? Sure. um with the process for transitioning, even if it's socially and then later on medically, um, the steps they go through. Well, it's interesting that you, uh, bring that up because, um, in our state, um, it used to be that, uh, people under the age of 18 could pursue care, um, with,
00:41:03
Speaker
hormone blockers or um transitioning hormones up until very recently. And now people drive out of state for that. um ah So that has, yes, yeah. um Fortunately, we do have a neighboring state um where that sort of care can be provided.
Transgender Care and Misconceptions
00:41:25
Speaker
ah
00:41:28
Speaker
ah But typically the, and I think the process starts in different ways and in different, you know, where I come into the scene is is usually like somewhere in the process. um ah
00:41:45
Speaker
And just so you know, I ask, I ask knowing trans people, I have trans friends, so I already know the process. I just want people to hear a little bit of it from professionals. We've said this a number of times. These kind of questions, these kind of conversations are the conversations that should be happening to get real information out to people rather than listening to the fucking Twitter bollocks and making their own mind up ah about what is actually going on. like you know their Their parents are making them do it because it's cool or um you know all this shit and you know it's more about trying to help.
00:42:30
Speaker
get actual information out there so that people go, oh, right. Okay. I'm actually learning a wee bit that it's not and mean hopefully learn what I've said this before. Nobody, I can't, I can't imagine anyone, anyone would choose the the path of Most resistance. Most resistance. Exactly. Just. Exactly. What a brave. Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, I think I'm just going to, you know, change gender. what ah we going get through this ah You know, this pride and people are going to judge me and, you know, and and that sounds great. You know, that is not that's. Let me make my life more difficult intentionally. It's great. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um I think it is a, it is a, so I'm, I guess talking about the process of that transition, I mean, there's so many, there's, there's so many kind of layers of process, whether it's um from a medical standpoint or societal standpoint or a mental health standpoint or, or, you know, which place, but, um,
00:43:31
Speaker
you know, we're we're kind of talking about here, but um usually the process starts with potentially years and years of feeling something is not right with, you know, I don't i don't feel like my body is telling me that, you know, I am. am um and And then talking to family, and I mean, you know. Yeah. Is it that kind of, would it be, is it normally that kind of defined, I don't, I feel like there's something, or does it, would it manifest as depression or? Could be both, I would think. I would. Okay. And then, right. Okay. That's interesting.
00:44:16
Speaker
yeah the It's hard to wrap your head around when you've never... gentlemen Well, look at it this way, Stuart. So the trans people I know and I've talked to, they get depressed because they feel out of place. If that makes sense? Yes. So one kind of leads to the other, so they kind of both happen. But as you're growing up, would you I mean, you don't you feel out of place as a teenager. How do you... then Does it take... like what I think the thing I'm wondering is,
00:44:47
Speaker
does it, you get referred to a therapist or a psychologist or whatever and you go and speak to someone and then through that process, you're able to figure out that ah that's what's actually going on inside your head or do they have they of do they normally know before that?
00:45:07
Speaker
I think that's a great question. I think theoretically that could happen, but I've never once had anyone come to me or their therapist and then sort of uncover that as a part of the prize. Right. They never had an epiphany moment.
00:45:28
Speaker
They're not from the process of therapy, but I mean, maybe it's from the process of therapy. i'm I'm not quite saying it the way I mean to. It's ah it's not suggested ah to the, you know, like, well, how you know what? You know, there's not a therapist who said, you know what, maybe what's wrong with your transgender? That is what people think.
00:45:49
Speaker
that is not seen it that's the thought process i'm kind of asking the questions around because that is one of the things people think that the people are telling them this is what's going on i still as As crazy as that sounds. This isn't the same by any means, but in the the spirit of what Stuart and I tend to do, the way I relate to trans people is I had years of me trying to figure out who I was. I tried on quote unquote different skins by wearing dressing differently, trying to fit in this, trying to fit in that until I figured it out. So it's not exactly the same, but it's the closest I can personally get to relating to them. And I think if people are
00:46:28
Speaker
but i think people are intelligent yeah I was going to say, if people are intelligent, they stop and think for a minute. We've all done that to figure out who we are. But I mean, it's not the same exactly, but it's the way that I figured out who I am. So it's the way I used to relate to their to them trying to figure out what. And I have other as we continue this conversation, I have other parallels to trans people in a way. Yeah. So we can discuss that, too, as we get further. ah Oh, can we do it now? We can do it now. and So you were talking about puree blockers.
00:46:59
Speaker
um I have a medical condition where I started ah puberty early. I won't, I'll stay away from the the fun words. That's okay, I'm used to the fun words. I know, but Stuart might not be, other people might not be, so. We want to protect their, their innocence. I got it. yeah of you ah No. um So I had to take puberty but blockers and um I took them until I, you know, until the doctors are like, all right, let it loose. So every time I hear people talk about how those things are irreversible, I'm like. You're like, is it? I lift a lot of weight. I have a beard. Like, is it? Are you sure about that? Because look at me, but people don't know that I. Yeah, OK. So, you know, um what are some of the more common puberty blockers that you've seen prescribed?
00:47:48
Speaker
Oh, so that would be outside of my, my field for what the actual medications would be. And I'm i'm really excited. This is kind of, this is kind of like when someone asked me about their blood pressure medication or something. yeah Even if I know a little bit, I'm like, I don't know enough, but I can talk to you about Lexa progress. I practice all day long, that's but, um, so I don't know enough about the, um, the, uh, the specific medications, but there, the there is, um,
00:48:19
Speaker
the block a hormone hormone blockade where the natural process of um estrogen is produced in the body, for instance, or testosterone.
00:48:30
Speaker
um and the ah the use of the body of those hormones is is essentially blocked. So that's kind of that's um yeah one part of the process. And then there is actually taking, you know if you were assigned male at birth, but then you are taking estrogen, that's kind of a different step. um and um the with with the e Let me just put it like this.
00:49:02
Speaker
so um When I think of hormone blockers, I definitely don't think irreversible. Yeah, no, I don't think anyone should. I mean, I took... I think people do because it's politically, you know, in line with what they think, but...
00:49:17
Speaker
But I want to put that out there. As a kid, yeah, I want to put that out there too, because I mean, anybody that knows me, I don't think anybody would second guess that I ever took puberty blockers, but I did. I started puberty at around five, so they had to stop it. So I was always, when I played football as a kid, when I was like six, when I tried to play football, they put me with 13 year olds because I was so big, my mom.
00:49:37
Speaker
literally had to carry around my birth certificate to prove how my age. So that's why I'm short now because that was the one thing that happened. They give the kids that have what I have now, I believe they get growth hormone now along with the when they release them from the puberty blocker so they can reach close to their normal height. um Well, I wouldn't have known you were short. How tall are you? I'm five six. My biological parents were both. My mother was close to six foot and my biological father was like six four.
00:50:02
Speaker
Okay. So I'm very short and it's because, you know, they had to hold me up. And I was on, I was on bucerillin as a kid. And then as a teenager, well pre-teen and all that, I was on Lupron, which is the one that everyone talks about now.
00:50:16
Speaker
So to anybody out there that thinks that's irreversible, come say hi to me and look at how beautiful my beard is and tell me about how I can't lift weights and stuff. You know what I mean? It is quite a luckless man though. But yeah, that really bothers me when people talk about how it's irreversible. And I'm like, it's not new. This isn't new medications. I mean, Lupron I believe is also used for a form of cancer.
00:50:42
Speaker
um But yeah, so but I keep it. my I used to keep my mouse, but I'm like, and know I know, that but not enough to speak. I know. That's why i I didn't ask. I didn't ask. I just can't remember. I can't remember which, but I believe it is used also in a treatment of cancer, but I can't remember. But it is. It must be hard in your profession dealing with this particular minefield. No one that Obviously anything between you and a patient is private and that that's fine but when you're dealing with a child and their parents are involved and they're maybe not as welcoming of the subject and and the realities of the subject as maybe they would like to be
00:51:36
Speaker
and That must be kind of hard because they're probably kind of wanting you to, you know, that's the other thing. you know either kind of the why you know People say it's a mental health condition.
00:51:49
Speaker
and say why should Surely you should be seeing a therapist to tell you that you're whatever it is um and essentially talk you out of it. And I'm sure you've heard that before. They said that to gay people too. I know, it right?
00:52:08
Speaker
It's all just a little bit of history repeating. so and but um and long this in my head i know ask it must be It must be quite a struggle from your point of view dealing with that, but especially because it's such a hot button issue at the moment. but Because it only takes one crazy parent to start saying things and your life goes to hell in a hand basket.
00:52:37
Speaker
So, um i to be honest, it everyone that I see comes on referral. and um because of that pretty much everyone knows my stance on things. Um, yeah so i I don't get those, um, those parent, which I don't know, maybe I should, um, because I think I do well with people that I don't agree with. Um, um but, uh, I don't, I don't get those. Um, but where I do hear those from people, you know, in my, in my personal life, like distant family members or, um,
00:53:19
Speaker
Or maybe sometimes it's it's the parent of a kid who is not actually. Experiencing issues of gender dysphoria or or anything like that, but then you know parent will bring it up off hand and then. And then that becomes a wow um or are we going to spend some of the session um debunking some of your thoughts here or are we going to talk about your kid you know.
00:53:46
Speaker
So what if, yeah I know you're not on the medical side as far as like the, uh, the endocrine side of things, obviously, but what kind of treatments do you typically do for, uh, trans kids or even gay kids that are trying to come to terms with things? ah They're not actually significantly different than, um, then the,
00:54:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I figured. You know, if you know, any other kid, ah you know, cisgender, heterosexual, I mean, it's anxiety and depression. And definitely kids, um particularly kids who are transgender have a lot more pressure on them and a lot more judgment on them.
00:54:34
Speaker
um but ultimately it comes from the same. it You know, but humans are all all, every single person on the surface is very different and we're all the same too. You know, um things tend to manifest with anger, anxiety, depression, you know. Yeah. It comes from the same place because, I mean, growing up and feeling that way with the society around you, telling you that depending on where you live.
Supporting Transgender Youth
00:55:06
Speaker
There's a society around you telling you that it's wrong from all fucking angles. You feel it's kind of unwiring people from to to to be happy in themselves rather than feeling like a dis disappointment to their parents or you know feel like they're they're wrong for feeling who they are.
00:55:31
Speaker
and not
00:55:33
Speaker
i Jesus Christ, I just want to hug everybody. I can't. I bet you're a good hugger. Oh, I love a good hug. again Yeah. Yeah. All I'm going to say is, see, kids, you're not special. Everyone's got anxiety and depression.
00:55:51
Speaker
No, two stories.
00:55:54
Speaker
um if you you know the but but i wanted to get that that's kind of That's bound to be where the anxiety and depression is kind of common. There's an awful lot of societal pressure to be, quote unquote, normal. And whenever, especially with everything that's going on in the media, if you feel like yourre and you have gender dysphoria and you're in the wrong body,
00:56:21
Speaker
My God, the pressure to actually say to somebody, I need help with this, with everything that's going on in the media, must be gigantic. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? that's um that's that's an that's that's ah That's another thing for saying, nobody fucking does this for crack.
00:56:44
Speaker
You know, but um it's just, it's just, it's just kind of scary, you know, but obviously you're, ah you're dealing with that side of things. I would assume trying to kind of help them with that. Um, yes, and definitely. So I, and again, I, I got to say though, um, I am fortunate in, I don't,
00:57:11
Speaker
get a lot of dissonant voices about it um and in my office. That's good. That's good for your mental health too. Yeah. These are so many other things. I mean, so there is a thing, Stuart, that you're kinda tapping on that I'm gonna bring up real quick. And I'm gonna ask Jen a question out of it, I think. um There's a lot of states, like my state, where they like to force the teachers to basically out the kids. And some of the parents are pissed off because they're like, why aren't you telling me?
00:57:48
Speaker
And my point to that would be, if you're the parent, why does the kid not feel safe enough to tell you in the first place? If you're the parent, you should fucking know. The kid should feel like they should be able to talk to you.
00:57:59
Speaker
So I'm wondering Jen, what kind of advice do you have for parents to make sure that they, and it doesn't have to be about LGBTQ, it can be about anything. Your kids should feel like they can come to you. What what is your advice to parents did to try and get them so their kids feel open enough to talk to them? Open enough to tell them, I know I'm i'm half Irish, I'm shopping, but I want to be an international rap star.
00:58:25
Speaker
yeah I mean, it could literally be about anything. Your kids should feel like they can talk to you. I'm just wondering what kind of and if any advice you have for parents to try and be more open. um a Number one thing is you got to suspend the judgment. you know um the The reactions, the the emotional, like, no, you don't mean that. no like I have bad feelings about whatever you're saying and whatever that comes across.
00:58:52
Speaker
you got to, if you, if you can't do anything else, you shut your mouth, you know, and, and you can ask your, your, your kid questions about it. But Madonna, what do you really mean that kind of, but more of a a curious way? Like tell me, tell me more. I want to know more about what you're feeling. um um You've got to take the fear of punishment out of it.
00:59:19
Speaker
You got to take the judgment out of it. And I'm going to tell you, that's really, really hard for a lot of parents. I think that's good advice for anybody. that's Yes. Somebody's talking to you and you're like, they're trying to expose something about themselves. I think that's good advice for anybody.
00:59:34
Speaker
Yeah. yeah it went Honestly, i mean it it it is. you know that it's It's the same kind of advice, but you know if you want your kids to talk to you, you do not come to the come at them with the the threat of punishment or the threat of judgment or the threat of anger. um and Unfortunately, for for some parents, that's goingnna there's going to be years of undoing in order to get to that place.
01:00:02
Speaker
yeah I mean, Stuart and I come from a generation where I don't, I don't know exactly, but i'll I'll speak. My father is, my father is a very sweet and loving person, but he's also like the old school kind of stoic. He doesn't say he's proud of me. He doesn't say he loves me. I know he does, but I've seen that man cry twice in my entire life. And the the reason I am the way I am is because my mom is the polar opposite. Like she's like, you could be emotional, do whatever you want. Crying's okay. My dad's just like,
01:00:30
Speaker
Nope, not happening. like i i Yeah, so I mean, I think there's a generational thing in that too. So I think ah people seem to be from talking to all these other folks, maturing emotionally as generations are coming up, as far as like being more open to different spectrums of things
Generational Shifts in Emotional Openness
01:00:49
Speaker
in general. So I think that's positive, but I know there's still relics out there of that old school kind of mindset. So yes.
01:00:58
Speaker
yeah and i mean Again, you know i I think you I see a ah sector of society and part of it is i tend the the parents of the kids I see tend to be um more on the open-minded side of things. and you know I still get that zing sometimes from... i'll I'll hear something really judgmental or really like you know harsh, even about their own kid. It's a shock. you know i mean and And I have kids too, so you know there are also... um
01:01:39
Speaker
You know, when your kid's making a new friend or something, you don't know kind of where the family stands on some certain things. And, you know, always a good idea, by the way, parents out there to ask if there are guns in the home and if they're if so, are they locked up when your kid is going to visit?
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, we don't have that problem. It's like, fuck. but That would be insane to have to consider that as a a question. This is an extra next avenue of stress. It's awkward as shit too. my my on Judgment, but do you have
Firearm Safety and Parental Communication
01:02:16
Speaker
guns and are they locked up? Thanks. oh I know. Frankly, I tend to forget. I'm not saying I'm the expert in it, but it is ah it is a good idea. um and it's not so you know if you if you have get like you know you know Kids are kids.
01:02:34
Speaker
I think it's a problem with the parents if they feel like they're being I was raised with firearms and bows like my whole life like I had a rifle since I was like seven like my parents ah none of this stuff like is shocking to me or i like it doesn't bother me if someone asks me they're not status symbols they're just they're like tools to me like it's no different than like a wrench like yeah it's got a specific use.
01:02:57
Speaker
Yeah. Right. so So, like, that's it. I don't think it makes me tougher because I can use a firearm. I don't think it makes me anything other than just somebody who's proficient in something. it And also, I mean, there's a way to ask the question, too, you know, if as a parent, of you know, you're not saying I judge you because you have a, ah a you know, that's what I'm saying. you Like, you shouldn't feel judged just because somebody's asking. They're looking out for kids to see it. that I'm just looking out for my kid. You know, I like just get older. you old like Like, calm down. I don't care. I just want to know if it's safe for the kid. That's it. That's all I want to know. Yeah, I'm more concerned. Do they drink and are they overly churchy?
01:03:35
Speaker
you
01:03:38
Speaker
yeah Those two are like, do they drink? OK, what do they drink? That's an easy one. I'm like, are they going to judge me for it? You have to invite me to church, right?
01:04:00
Speaker
I'm going to stand in a big room with a bunch of boys.
01:04:08
Speaker
You might have to kneel a little bit too. i of exactly But they do feed you and give you alcohol, so you know, you got that. It's not a significant amount. It's it's not a significant, yeah, trip done not even enough to top up from them from from you from your pre-breakfast game, you know what I mean?
01:04:32
Speaker
but stay Yeah, we're getting canceled so good i love it i of all Out of all the things that we've talked about tonight that would be the funniest thing to cancel for You can't be fucking
Spiritual Beliefs vs. Religiosity
01:04:48
Speaker
talking about Christian
01:04:52
Speaker
so mr and They just meant all churchy things. They're all a bit fucking weird. I think there's a difference between ah sort of, you know, having some, some spiritual beliefs, perhaps they're of a Christian nature and being churchy. Why is it every time Susie comes over, there's pamphlets left around? The end is coming.
01:05:19
Speaker
but Yeah. yeah yeah yeah where will you be Oh boy. so All right. Well, I think we're going to have Jen back, but I think it's time. to i think it's to So Jen, they are only two defined things for this podcast or the first question and the last question. ahha And the last question is what's the manliest thing you've done this week?
01:05:49
Speaker
Um, such a hard question financially supported my children. ah it's pretty good i more Yeah. i think yeah that's a good And I, and I carried a ladder and, and Shane like program, you know, like programmed it. I mean, it was very manly. It was very, to be very proud. Um, programs like I, I, I am the handy person in the household. So I can do like the handy. Yeah.
01:06:14
Speaker
Nice. I didn't mean to start too fucking shocked when I said that. surprise made apologize It's the flip side of Johnny is what we have here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Johnny. Johnny has has my favorite answer because it's the one that made me laugh the hardest. And he was supervising his partner painting shelves or something like that. Supervising. Supervising. I love it. Can you supervise?
01:06:41
Speaker
yeah partner built the fehe
01:06:46
Speaker
so good still yeah yeah all right everybody That's going to be it for this week. Jen, thank you so much. We definitely did have you back on. We'll come up with some ah ideas like Brian, and I did trauma with Brian, so we'll come up with something. you know like more i was I would love to. And at some point, you know, I got to say, Stuart, you had some questions about my love for horror movies. so oh we're coming but we should have them both back at the same time we could talk about yes yes yes yes yes i would love to terrify brian with more help i'm just gonna be quite good for the run up to october oh i love it spooky season we suggested that brian come to halloween horror nights at universal and i think you should do that to him
01:07:33
Speaker
Oh, I don't actually love that. So he thinks that we're going to be so scared. But like, oh, no, they're kind of they're kind of scary. Well, we're going in September. So when? Because wait, wait, I'm going to be in Florida in September.
01:07:49
Speaker
She's like, well, now I will be. No, I am. like it'ss It starts. It starts pretty soon. And it goes to the end of October. But it's ah what is it? It's Thursday suit through Sundays. Yeah, Thursday through Sundays. At Universal. And the yeah the houses they build are like movie. They're like movie set quality, like they're built in giant buildings, basically like movies, like characters and signs. I have you guys.
01:08:17
Speaker
Just to give you an idea you guys watched hunting a hill house right absolutely multiple times here they did that as a house one year and you literally walked to the front door of the house that the house built inside.
01:08:28
Speaker
like it's not the sound stages are sound stages and they're massive inside and they build these things and some of them they do like wintery kind of theme stuff and it's actually cold in the root in the in the sound stages yeah like it's the one that did that last year uh i don't remember last year i always remember the uh the wharf one i came around the name of it from like two years ago that was awesome yeah and the yeti one that it was called that wasn't last year yeah last year last year was like the king brown kind of eddie yeah but there was one last year had a cold room and i can't i can't remember which one it was they're kind of all blending they have a ghostbusters one this year they're doing the uh the further them yeah they're doing my dream guys you have you need to come to halloween horror nights and you need to make bri clearly houses and yeah
01:09:14
Speaker
I will send you videos when we get done and you can see some walkthroughs. We're coming to shoot. No, no, I'm seeing from past years you can see the walkthroughs. Please do. Don't show them to Brian because you can pick up on how they do stuff if you don't show them to Brian. I think that might soothe him a little bit. No, no, no, that's not the point. No, you don't want to do that. Listen, exposure therapy, this is what we're going for.
01:09:42
Speaker
brian cries at commercials don't even get me started on a sad movie a that's i wish i'm such a list of things from when jen comes back um why um We started this a kind of conversation with Brian. Why do we do these things? Watch horror movies and go on roller coasters and so also watch sad movies that we know are going to be sad. and So that that's going to be a fun conversation. I don't do that shit. I don't watch sad movies. Brian cries at things. gentlemen so people and though I'm like, Brian, are you crying?
01:10:19
Speaker
Yeah, but some people do watch sad movies on purpose. Do you know what I mean? What are you doing? I feel down. I'm going to watch Beaches or whatever the fuck it is. No, that's such a... I would love that. Yeah. A Beaches. Yeah, but do you know what I mean? So it'll be an interesting conversation. Yeah, we'll definitely do that. Questions for spooky season. We should definitely work up a show for that. I feel really sad today. Let me watch Terrifier. That'd be great.
01:10:46
Speaker
but I mean, oh like I mean, it really you really get into a place where you're like, wow, things are not that bad in my world. I don't even know if I go there. I'm just like, that's really cool makeup. That's a lot of blood. Well, I just let that girl's hands through the fingers.
01:11:03
Speaker
That's pretty much what I think about, but I mean, you could be right. I am a little resistant to therapy. I don't know if you've listened to any of these shows. I didn't notice that. Yeah, just a little. I tried, but I'm a little resistant. That's OK. But you're open in another way. So am I, though? It's just to distract from the other thing. That's why I'm open this way. I feel like I'm just so big. I will allow that to happen at some point. I let Brian do it. I even volunteered the idea.
01:11:33
Speaker
But all right, we're gonna get out of here, guys. Jen, just hang out for a few minutes. yeah absolutely Bye. Bye.