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Episode 35: Andy's School Project
56 Plays1 year ago
We are joined by Andy, a Physical Therapy student, to discuss his ideas for tying mental health strategies into PT, visualization, and more.
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Transcript
Andy's School Project and Teacher's Support
00:00:32
Speaker
Cheers. is Is that a mountain to you? It is. what would need What do you do there, Andy? I'm 28. I guess you're doing this for schoolwork so you can't have a beer, right?
00:00:48
Speaker
Yeah, fucking Ted. I got a shirt on. I was ready to go. I have a PT shirt on, boys. Okay. No, i I probably can't have a beer and I'm going to let my teacher know that she's she's understanding. She always talks about us about the her having a glass of wine while she grades our papers at night. So I'll likely get to a beer, but the fact that I've been treating patients most of the day and in school and learning, I needed a little kick me up to get through. Fair enough.
00:01:14
Speaker
Hey kids, welcome to Toxic Masculinity with Ian and Stuart. This week, we have Andy with us, who is our friend Brian's son. And for the first time ever on our show, we're gonna help with a school project. Nice. Yeah. How are you guys doing? Hey fellas, how you guys doing? I'm doing fantastic. I just got done with a long day of of school and I've been really looking forward to it. I've been telling all my classmates about my my project getting on a podcast and what it means. So funny. I don't know if we're going to help, but we're going to try. I was going to say it's been a long time since I've done a school project, but it's not. I had the help core last year with a project on volcanoes. Did you make a volcano? We made like a... Did you do the classic? A cardboard? No, we made like a cardboard diorama of the inner workings of a, you know,
00:02:10
Speaker
volcano. It was, it was fun told literally, I think the night before, Hey, we have to do this. ah god nice see That's where I excel. bi bull yeah yeah I was like, you are definitely my. so again um All right. So we're going to start with a question and then we're going to try to do some schoolwork.
Understanding Masculinity: Andy's Perspective
00:02:32
Speaker
Andy, what does masculinity mean to you?
00:02:37
Speaker
Wow. Don't copy your dad. That was mean. Yeah, yeah no, I'm actually go not going to copy my dad. There's going to be some things that I tell you guys will be related to some things that he taught me. But one of the things is, is that I don't know how much he's told you kind of about how I grew up. And I grew up with a single mom. My dad wasn't really in the picture growing up when I was younger. So I had a six foot tall redhead who was a division one field hockey player And it's come to find out gender roles were reversed for me when you were younger. My mom was the rub it, rub some dirt on it, get up, stop being a bitch when it comes to sports. And my dad was like, don't tell me how you feel.
00:03:21
Speaker
Do you want me to love you a little bit? And it was kind of funny because to this day I still fear my mom as far as disappointing her and stuff like that. So it's interesting when it talks about masculinity because I've gone through such a such a difficult time.
00:03:36
Speaker
with what that means to me, because I'm the kind of person who, one, when it comes to women and friends and whatever, being very open and honest and communicative. As you guys see, like i'm I'm very outgoing and fun and extroverted, and I can pretty much talk to anybody. And the funny thing is, anybody can pretty much talk to me, which they feel like. I have this sort of aura and friendliness about me, and the thing that I i find about masculinity is i have a lot of trauma when it comes to sports and athletics and being that toxic masculinity when it comes to.
Sports Trauma and Therapy: Andy's Journey
00:04:11
Speaker
Never giving up putting my emotions this i did that down and i find it so funny that i was raised by a woman and still learn those tricks.
00:04:20
Speaker
Like, yeah but update feels happy right yeah, she was an athlete. Yeah, that's, what that's a, that's a tough sport. yeah it's a big Yeah. So, so for me, it's like, uh, I've, I've now in my later adulthood, you know, um I'm currently in therapy as, as trying to learn how to deal with that. And.
00:04:40
Speaker
And use it as uses maintenance to try to figure out. But to me, honestly, my dad came up with three phrases, ah three rules about leadership, and they sort of guided me through masculinity. One, if you don't know what you're doing, fake it. Two, if you don't know what you're doing, ask for help. And three, if you you know if you need help, delegate.
00:05:07
Speaker
Those are good. I like those. So those three things have guided me through my life as far as, and they have gotten me some trouble when it comes to, if I don't know what to do, faking it. And then the asking for help part is something I'm still working on. But as of right now, that's kind of where I'm, where my masculinity trait leads, but yeah it's something I'm working towards and working away from trying to be as open and communicative as possible. Do you think you have a problem with the second one?
00:05:32
Speaker
asking for help or the third one asking for help because of the first one. Yeah. I mean, personally for me, um, you guys haven't seen this from my dad, but I'm an overtly confident guy. I exude hubris. Um, and it's something that's been a downfall for me for my entire career. As far as athletics and stuff, I feel very confident in my ability to do anything. I'm a little cocky about it.
00:05:58
Speaker
But the problem is most of the time I can back it up with anything I'm doing pretty handy when it comes to most everything. um And you know now I find myself not being able to ask for help about like with my partner. Like, hey, I ah can't really do some things and I won't ask her for help. Like, hey, how do
Family Influence on Emotional Expression
00:06:15
Speaker
I talk to you better? How do I be a better partner for you? you know I talk to my dad every once in a while when I'm in a very low spot and I don't ask him before that because you know I don't feel like I need to. Oh, I can handle this. um i you know I have strategies, I've learned, you know I'm umm um'm okay, I'm okay, I'm definitely okay. It's seems interesting. It never gets to the point where I get past that. It's interesting because when you're doing athletics, you're your mom, but when you're talking to your partner, you're your dad. Totally. Yeah. You're like, are you okay? Isn't it kind of gross? Yeah. I mean, my mom you do have both, so at least you have like the you have both kind of in you, but they just come out in extreme ways depending on what's going on. It's kind of funny. funny
00:06:56
Speaker
It's, it is, it is funny. It's been common. It's something my mom and I joke about. It's something my dad and I joke about quite often. I'll be like, ah my mom will call me and she's like, why don't you talk to your dad about that? He tell you about your feelings. ah yeah Oh man. That's funny. That's really funny. It's fun little jabs. It's interesting that intellectually, you know, that you should be able to ask for help.
00:07:20
Speaker
but something in you stops you doing it. Because I mean, the things you know you need to ask for help with are very intellectual thought process things. yet still it holds you back. You're holding yourself back from doing that thing that all men do. Do you know what I mean? go No, no, I'm fine holding an entire car up just by myself. I don't need any assistance. I can't relate to any of this. I don't know what you're talking about either. it's it's So I've actually talked about this with my therapist, and I can actually dive back into where it is. And funny enough, it actually comes from my mom's side. The way my mom grew up, and if you ever hear you ever hear me talk about it again, if I remember back on,
00:08:01
Speaker
um My mom's side of her family, so my my grandfather and my grandmother from my mom's side, weren't very lovey-dovey individuals. They were born in the ray. My grandpa loves you by ah putting food on the table. If you got your sports game in back, he'd love you. Never hugged my mom. There's a picture of her. The only picture of her where we got close was she was going to prom, and it's one of her favorite pictures. And he has you know oil hands from changing his his oil on his Nova Supercharger.
00:08:31
Speaker
working in the yard. So that level of toxic masculinity flowed down to her and her her not being able to talk about her feelings. she deal She told her therapist when she went to therapy one time, she was like, I have a box and I keep everything in that box and I don't let it out, we don't talk about it.
00:08:52
Speaker
end And guess who she raised? yeah being able to open up about stuff. And the problem is, is I fight between, I know I need to talk about it, but I don't. um'm ah I'm a solution, Scott. If I'm a problem, I'm always going to find and need to find a solution to be able to fix it, because then the problem won't go away. Talking out of a problem when there's still a problem there, never fixes it for me. I want solutions, I want to come up with ideas. And as you know from if you've ever
00:09:24
Speaker
looked at a woman before, solutions aren't always the best thing nope to pick them up with, especially in relationships.
Breaking the Cycle of Toxic Masculinity
00:09:31
Speaker
That's not what they want sometimes. you know' um Apparently, I have her tell, it has been whispered on the wind that apparently sometimes they just want you to listen. It's weird. I just want to fix everything. listen i I'm really good at listening. I could listen to your problems, but then I immediately want to fix them.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, I do too, but i've had to tell some of my friends that i'm close to i'm like look You need to tell me if you just need me to listen because if you're not i'm gonna try to fix it Yeah, I know that's not what you always need So I have to i'm open in that way where i'm like if you just need me to listen Like if you're just talking to me to vent you need to tell me Because i'm gonna be like trying to fix it like doing like every angle trying to think of everything So you just need to be up front. Otherwise I guess the fact that we're aware of it is a good, is is is a very positive step on all our points. It's it's been ah it's been mentioned to me once or twice. Yeah. I'm putting it in the work because I don't know about you guys. like I have seen, unfortunately seen marriages not go through through things well. My dad's side, I mean, I don't know if he told you about his story. My mom's side, she's never been married. my you know
00:10:39
Speaker
my grandparents, you know, friends and family for me, like, I don't want to, no offense. I don't want to fuck this up. So I'm putting in the work now to try to, to try to lead myself down a line. Cause I want to do things different. ah I don't want to go into this with this, this hubris, this, this weight that I carry all around of this, these things that I've been through and this work. So I'm, I'm trying to put in the work now to be able to succeed in the future and and lead a different generation of men.
00:11:07
Speaker
down a path of of success and opening their eyes. I mean, my dad works with adolescent males, and I mean, can you can hear how I can talk about how it matters to me as one well in this podcast for a reason because I'm affected by it. yeah It's to this day. Yeah, we kind of started this to kind of like fight back against some of the bullshit that we hear that's like nonsense. so And I commend you guys because some of the things that I talk about with my best friends, I have I have three guys that I, uh, that I play video. I'm a huge gamer and we game all the time, but the gaming isn't the reason why we do it. We do it because we love each other. And the only way to connect with each other is there, you know, one guy's from Chicago to or in Virginia. I'm here in North Carolina and we talk about all of our problems.
00:11:52
Speaker
And we're like and we send a simple text message hey i need you guys can you guys get on we chat we talking to open line communication be able to do it. And when i heard about this platform about you guys and i listen to the way you guys talk about it and you know the way my you know my dad talks about it. It's it's important and it's more needed in this time than it ever has before not that it should have urban been before but it's starting to become more prevalent in our society.
00:12:17
Speaker
Yeah, I saw a guy today that was jacked and he was trying to be a tough guy and he's like talking about somebody, some video going around and he was like, this big Jack dude like went up to some little kid who was talking shit in his comments and like, that's what you get. You can fuck with the big guy bullshit. Like, I'm like, well, he's really a tough guy. Then why does he care with some little kid says about him on the Internet? Like that doesn't compute in my head. Like, why do you have time to fucking even give energy to that?
00:12:42
Speaker
It's just weird like how some people react and what people think like a tough guy actually does and it's just odd to me. Yeah, I mean it is and there's, I can't tell you how many people when you actually break it down with strategies and and mechanisms of like their thought process. And i I don't know if my dad ever told you guys, I did debate in college. I co-founded my debate team that's awesome in college. One of the things about is me is I float both lines of being a nerd and a jock and I love it.
00:13:12
Speaker
cuz i can flip that script and so breaking down
Mental Health in Physical Therapy: Andy's Project
00:13:15
Speaker
the lines of people's arguments and thought processes and flipping it on the be like hey you know you're thinking like this right there no i'm not and i'm like sit there and think about how why you're doing this work and work through their stuff so when people come online and start talking and stuff like that especially the generation out no offense to any political jargon but like people say some dumb shit and they don't realize what they're thinking something yeah.
00:13:38
Speaker
And it comes off of it there's something inside of them that's making them do this whether it's insecurities whether it's trauma whether it's you know again my you know hubris or something else and there is a deeper meaning to that and that's why my dad makes the amount of money he does. I think on that note any why don't you tell everybody exactly why you're here and let's start discussing this project because i'm curious about what you're gonna ask us.
00:14:05
Speaker
So my professor, I am in a neuro class and the neuro class is a neurological, people with neurological disabilities, strokes, traumatic brain injuries, um and other neurological conditions like Parkinson's. And we're learning about them and learning how to help ah treat them and help you know with their progression through life.
00:14:29
Speaker
My teacher came up with a simple phrase about our project and she says, how would you change the profession of physical therapy? What is an idea, an invention, a curiosity you have that will add it? And like I've mentioned before, mental health is important to me, not only from what I've been through personally as an athlete and as a human being, but also from what I've lived through with my dad, yeah my mom. And so my phrase is,
00:14:59
Speaker
What happens when you add mental health strategies and into physical therapy care? Not just in the neuro section, but all sections across the way, because you can't separate the brain from injury. no And if you guys have ever, and I'm going to go through some of these questions, but if you even think about a time where you've been hurt or injured, ah, I messed up my ankle or hurt my knee, it changes the way you think. It changes the way you feel about yourself, your confidence, your your identity as a human being. And if you've ever been an athlete before, I mean, you're talking to me about your your shoulder. I can hear the way you talk about it and how it bothers you. Oh, it sucks. And that even even the way you talk about it is mental health. Oh yeah, for sure.
00:15:44
Speaker
And so what my pitch is, is at the end of this, once I gather all, you know, all the conversations we have today, the research is, I'm going to write a persuasion letter, a letter to the APA, the American Psychological or American Psychiatric Association, and the American Physical Therapy Association, no offense to our international folks, about ah adding cognitive behavioral therapy training and our mental health training to all of our up and coming doctors in physical therapy. Because it's something that I think is mandatory, because we've talked so much in class about, hey, we have to make sure that we acknowledge their mental health. Okay, what is that doing for the patient? If we're not doing something, again, there's a problem, I wanna fix it. You hear it flow back in there.
00:16:36
Speaker
oh and We can't separate that stuff and if we have strategies and i'm not saying that we're gonna treat their you know depression or anxiety and stuff like that but if we have strategies to be able to use it in our treatment sessions. How more effective can we be as a society and as a medical like care providers and to be able to help you guys.
00:16:54
Speaker
There's bound to be a certain amount of mental barriers to actually accepting, like men don't ask for help, but also they don't accept help, which would include receiving therapy physical therapy. There's going to be a mental barrier there where some mental health help would actually help them actually accept the physical therapy in the first place, especially after stroke or injury where you feel like you're less than you once were or something like that. my and We have talked about this numerous times here before, but my daughter has disabilities and she had a lot of physical therapy growing up to get her walking and all these kinds of things. And while it's probably slightly different with a child, I still think that maybe some mental health work would have
00:17:42
Speaker
would have helped her because I know she would stand at the side of a playground and watch all the other kids running around. And you can tell she's kind of gone, why am I not able to do that?
00:18:00
Speaker
That has to play on your brain a wee bit, you know? Well, also I was going to add, like, um ah something most people that don't lift might not know is that there's a lot of mental games in lifting. Your mind is very powerful. Absolutely. And a lot of things people do between sets. Like, I probably look like a fucking maniac when I train by myself because yeah I kind of pace between sets. But what I'm doing is visualizing my next set.
00:18:22
Speaker
And i've heard of I've heard of like I can't, I'm looking around sometimes, but I'm not like, it's not it's not coming in when I'm looking at, it's just all, I'm in my head at that point, just listening to my music, getting ready for my next set. But there are older power lifters that would go so far as to go into like sensory deprivation tanks to like visualize what they're gonna do on their next meet and all this other stuff.
00:18:43
Speaker
So like head games have been a long thing in like weight training, which is sort of loosely connected to like physical the kind of stuff, because it's. I mean, so I mean, yeah we're I'm going to jump right to that because that's a great point. um In our curriculum, we talked about imagery as an idea. Imagery as far as visualization, meditation, the idea of ah visualizing what you want to do. And actually, I'm not I'm not one of the only, but in my class, I'm one of the individuals that bring up imagery a lot because as an athlete,
00:19:13
Speaker
we were always talk to visualize your next step look at the play think about take mental reps and when it comes to rehab with patients with their logical injuries orthopedic injuries nerve issues musculoskeletal stuff being successful at what you do in the way you talk about it and the way you visualize it is an important feedback.
00:19:33
Speaker
And it actually is proven in the research that we do that it improves outcomes later down the line of being able to visualize, not only in that session, but later down the line. Like, for example, there's one specific study that I love to to reach out is after ACL injuries. A lot of time, your your quads, you know the big muscles in front of your legs kind of shut off. And in order to retrain that, they do, like if they eat stem, which is electrostimulization of the muscles.
00:19:59
Speaker
and one of the studies that is done is if you fire both at the same time and you
Visualization Techniques in Therapy
00:20:05
Speaker
imagine the signal coming from your head down to your body out through your legs at the same time it actually increases the activation of the quadricep muscles just from the thought process of it oh yeah for sure rather than not think about it like the visualization is so powerful.
00:20:20
Speaker
There's tell of ah like early bodybuilders, not so much trying to get weight, but they visualize their muscles like growing while they train, like stuff like that. There's all kinds of, like, I just know this from like my side, but like there's all kinds of visual techniques that have been used through like different kind of iron sports, so.
00:20:37
Speaker
I mean i i know it helps cuz these guys are successful people that talk about this stuff so it seems hokey to people that don't know what i mean if these dudes are successful and they use it then you should do it or train yourself to do it and the other best to especially in movement is you can get to a point where.
00:20:52
Speaker
You can visualize it and just feel your body and not have to pay attention like um i don't keep my head up when i squat anymore cuz i don't need to look in the mirror or anything in my body just locks in the position. I've had people be like how do you do that i'm like i just feel the weight and the movement and it just feels right like i'm not thinking about it anymore so.
00:21:10
Speaker
ah You can get to points like that. I mean you should keep your head up, but I just like don't I don't have to so Absolutely and one of the things I mean the thing you were just talking about is you guys you guys a fan of the Olympics you guys tracking Yeah, like like like to watch that so one of the things is if you ever look at it again Go look at the Olympic sprinters right it there on the line a lot of them are in their head are talking to themselves. Yep And you can see it on their mouths, they're like, stay low, push through, drive the knees. In the middle of the biggest moments of their career, they've had sports psychologists, they've had coaches, they've had people on their corner that are telling them about imagery, visualization, and mental techniques to strengthen their performance and guide their motion because they're they're taking all of these reps and repeating them and forcing it through themselves to be able to execute it and perform at the highest level.
00:22:00
Speaker
And that task, just because it's the highest level, doesn't mean it can't be taken to people who have disabilities. It's the same concept applied in a different manner. And that's a lot of what we're doing. is' It's coaching. And people don't realize that when it comes to that. Why do you think um it hasn't been done already? Because it seems like... ah It honestly seems like a no brainer.
00:22:25
Speaker
It does, but I have a great example, and we brought this up. and One of the things you said is like men struggle with asking for help, and men struggle with being able to do things. I had a 23-year-old patient who is an incomplete spinal cord injury, meaning that from about here, they have very low activation, i'm sorry, for work the fans that can't hear, um for about their chest level down. He doesn't have a lot of activation. He really can't walk. He can't do stuff with his body.
00:22:52
Speaker
But I did a task where we were doing stimulation of his core muscles. And I was talking to him about like, all right, think about the activation. Think about breathing and engaging those muscles. And the way I'm talking almost sounds like meditation or, you know, for people who don't know the research, it sounds kind of hokey. Like the way I'm talking and the way I'm bringing up things, it sounds like yoga, meditation, like breathing and thinking and diving. And some people aren't comfortable with that.
00:23:21
Speaker
There's a window of zone and you know, Ian, as as ah as a weight lifter, you kind of get into this like headstrong zone, like I'm going to get this way. I'm going to push through it or whatever. And there's this sort of hard mentality, but when you break it up and become soft, some people get real uncomfortable, especially men in the United States when it comes to like ideas of like, Hey, I'm going to focus on doing something that's different than you ever done before. And maybe you're not comfortable with as soon as the comfortability and the things are like, this seems kind of weird.
00:23:50
Speaker
people shut off from it and it's not as good. And there's also people that aren't good at it as clinicians. like I have practiced as an athlete about doing this. I've had you know my dad as a ah as a clinician talk to me about ways I could talk to myself. So I have extensive amount of experience and training when it comes to this stuff, whereas other people do not.
00:24:11
Speaker
yeah I always kind of like my own, I don't, I was never an athlete. yeah You don't have to laugh every time. and Um, but I, uh, I always kind of thought meditation is a bit weird. And then, um, through my own mental health journey, I ah started trying it out. Um, normally with that, like, uh, I like, um, uh,
00:24:42
Speaker
like brown noise or white noise and yeah things like that. And um vocal tracks that kind of take you through calming processes to help you stop having panic attacks and things like this. And when you actually, ah from from an ah intellectual point of view, it kind of makes sense because you The rest of your body is getting signals from your brain just because you're being conscious and trying to create those signals doesn't make the signals any less real.
00:25:14
Speaker
If that makes sense, rather than you know the involuntary move my arm, whatever kind of signal that you would be sending, just because you're thinking, right, ah stay on track, stay focused, get to the end, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're still, you're just forcing those signals through yourself a wee bit more. Does that make sense?
00:25:34
Speaker
absolutely And people talk about it different ways. People who do yoga and like Tai Chi talk about like chi and energy and focus and the breath and the power of like the core. um And the way they talk about it may sound different. And the way that athletes talk about it about like visualization and imagery. There are similar concepts that can be applied in a similar way that invoke the same response.
00:26:03
Speaker
yes So for me like uh stewart is i do i'm i'm i'm a breather i love to center myself in breathing when i get anxiety i get it right here in my chest and i can feel my sternum like the center of my chest wall tighten and i get a knot literally like in the center of my chest and i take myself i'm like all right
00:26:27
Speaker
And I feel it dissipate. And when I was an athlete, when I was when i was in the middle of you know big time games and when I was up to center myself, I always do this breathing technique. I teach my patients this as well when it comes to it. I'm like, when you want to visualize yourself, cuddle the noise out, focus, close your eyes, take three deep breaths. And what I want you to do, breathe in for three seconds and purse your lips and let it out slowly.
Breathing Techniques for Mental Focus
00:26:52
Speaker
And funny enough, when I got into school, ah for people with chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder, COPD, it's actually a technique called purselet breathing. where you it's the the The saying is called, ah smell the roses, blow out the candle. And it's a one second inhale breath through the nose. And that was like a three second count let out. And it's supposed to actually help patients who can't breathe with anxiety. Yeah. That's pretty cool. We do it with Cora. She also has autism but we do it with Cora to help her calm down. When he they they told it to her in school they called it rocket breaths so she fuels the rocket and then
00:27:31
Speaker
yeah And it's it's a similar it's a similar thing. And I used to do all those... great I'm a theatre kid, so I did all those breathing techniques in drama and things like that. So I found myself doing those breathing techniques when I started having the panic and the issue and the things like that. Another thing that my therapist told me to do, which I thought was really interesting, sounded it mad, but when I actually started doing it, I went, Jesus, that works. That's crazy. was She basically went, imagine, she goes, okay, imagine your anxiety. If your anxiety was, this is how the conversation goes, if your anxiety was with you right now,
00:28:14
Speaker
how big would it be and what, you know, where would it be? And I kind of crouched down to the side as if it was over the top of me, like a large beast, a large monster. That's my anxiety. And she says, well, just look at it and imagine it getting smaller. Tell it it's smaller, smaller, smaller, smaller. And as I thought and said smaller and sat up, I sat up, my shoulders dropped.
00:28:43
Speaker
and the anxiety just fucked off. Yeah. And literally to just thinking about it ah in a visual manner, it is the way, and if someone had a told me that a couple of years ago, I wouldn't, that sounds like woo woo crap.
00:29:01
Speaker
it's It sounds like a whole lot of shit. Doesn't it? She actually took me through that and when it actually worked, I couldn't believe it. It was astounding. It's making me kind of tear up a wee bit and I'm thinking about it because it really made a massive change to into my life. like Yeah, I'm a big proponent of whatever works. No matter how hokey it sounds, if it works for you, you should do it.
00:29:27
Speaker
And one of the things I'll share a bit about my journey is through therapy is um ah I talk to my therapist about it and you know, you you you got you kind of realize that I, you know, I'm kind of intellectual when it comes to stuff. My therapist made me realize that I don't even notice anxiety until it somaticizes in my body.
00:29:46
Speaker
I don't even realize I have it until somaticized meaning like I have pain or I can feel it in my body. yeah So like I'm anxious right now, but I don't know it until I get that pain in my chest or like I start breathing or my shoulders rise.
00:30:01
Speaker
And she's like, Andy, did you always do that? And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, she, she caught it when I was talking about, she's like, when did you first notice you started having this stuff? She was like, I don't know. Like one time in school, I was in finals and you know, my chest got really tight and called my dad. My dad was like, you're having a panic attack. And I'm like, what?
00:30:21
Speaker
like you're you're in the middle of a panic attack i'm like i'm not really paniccked he's like Andy, your heart rate is, I have an Apple Watch. He's like, your heart rate's 115. The syringar test is really tight and you are complaining about things you're stressed out about. He's like, you're in the middle of a ah panic attack. And he says, there's a spectrum. i And when I told my therapist that, she's like, Andy, you only realize it when you have symptoms. Yeah. I don't realize it until I'm spiraling already. Like I don't notice until it's too late.
00:30:50
Speaker
My first one, I was sitting on a sun lounger beside a Ibiza when I had my first panic attack. And of of all the places you'd think Ian's going to have a panic attack there. There it is. So it it can it can grab hold you at any point. It's just It's the weirdest thing. ah Real quick, just to catch Andy up since he hasn't listed everything. My trauma is so high, my anxiety runs so high that I keep myself overly busy because it's the the pace and the level that I'm used to. So that is why I don't notice anything. I'm constantly doing stuff. I don't sit still unless I'm exhausted and I can't i literally can't do anything anymore. So that's that's my shit.
00:31:37
Speaker
i can i can relate to that i have a ah lot of trauma from my younger days ah my my family situation wasn't wasn't very beautiful either
00:31:52
Speaker
school and that I level of, I needed to mask it so people wouldn't ask questions, I can understand. And so that's relate why I tell people how much I love football, American to football, because it actually gave me an outlet for my anger, my stress, my reliability, and video games, like being able to talk to people in an outlet of doing that in football. I'm not going to say you're in light of your guys, but like athletics and football saved my life.
00:32:19
Speaker
I would be in a very different place. Did you play football? I did. I played in high school and college. Awesome. What position? Middle linebacker. i I hit the shit out of people and that was my job for a living for 13 years. Yeah. I only played freshman year, but I played lineman. We played Ironman and that's all I did was smash people. It was great. Yeah. Super fun. ah but ah But my journey through all of that that pain and and anguish and trauma and, you know,
00:32:47
Speaker
hiding and masking it is is something that again, I still work through today that hubris of like, I can deal with it. I'm fine. I need to keep going and and do whatever. And I keep myself incredibly busy as well. ah Currently I'm in school. I'm the member of two organizations in my school. I play flag football and organizing a charity football tournament. I drive an hour to go see my girlfriend, you know, two ways. Like I just try to keep myself literally as busy as possible to avoid sitting down with my feelings.
00:33:17
Speaker
Yeah. Different trauma reasons, but I get it um yeah fully. ah What else was there for your school project due to visual visualization? What else do you got? Yeah. So I have a few questions for you guys and go on as long as you've got... It's just a couple of questions and they're going to be questions that sort of stack on each other.
00:33:34
Speaker
Um, currents point is what do you guys think of physical therapy and and, and or physios as the international rules call them as a profession as a whole? I know that Stuart, you said, you know, your daughter had some, um, oh, yes. And I can only imagine that you've had some in your career. A little bit. So I am, uh, tell me what you guys think about it. I am a big fan of physiotherapists. My daughter has had a lot of them. Uh,
00:34:02
Speaker
some of them better than others. That's just how it rolls with some people ins and that's fine. But whenever you get someone that is really passionate about, I mean, these people help my daughter walk.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It's incredible. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I see it every day. Where other other babies just get up and crawl. we had to they had They taught us the methods and we went through the steps to basically physically teach Cora the mechanics of crawling and then the mechanics of getting up and the mechanics of walking so that we had to basically build her muscle memory for her so that she could do it.
00:34:47
Speaker
And if it wasn't for the physiotherapists, we would have been at an absolute loss. And I mean, she had physiotherapist appointments once, twice a week, rebound therapy on um trampolines and hydrotherapy in, in pools yeah and and all of these different things. And it's, it's, uh, uh, yeah. Uh, I am very thankful for those people and their chosen profession because when you, when you're, when your kid suddenly stands up and walks towards you at ah for Cora, she was two and a half, nearly three years old by the time she'd done that, it was
00:35:33
Speaker
Amazing, powerful stuff. your Your daughter is the reason that I get out of bed every morning and I'm fighting to get into this profession for a very long time. I don't know if my dad told you my journey. I got denied from PT school three separate times, like three cycles, 19 application, $5,000 down the drain and waiting after school to try to get in. And I have told people that this is what I want to do because of that reason. I've seen people in the clinic walk for the first time after having pain.
00:36:03
Speaker
I have my summer project was with a person who was airplane mechanic who had an antenna go through his eye and hit his brainstem and had a stroke. oh um And he walked for the first time in eighteen years without a lot of support with us. That's awesome. wow Yeah, that's really cool. i I wake up in the morning every day wanting to make society better, not only for for individuals, but for the reason that we're here today. It's for for men and getting out there and helping you know men get help they need, not only medically, but mentally and being a provider that's there for everyone. I had an interview with my my school. where They do like you know admissions interviews and she said, what kind of PT do you want to be? And I said, I want to be everyone's PT.
00:36:45
Speaker
Anyone can walk through that door, no matter what condition, no matter what you come with, no matter what baggage, and I'll be able to help treat you. And that's important to me. And I want to say your story is not unlike any others that I've heard. And ah it's one of the reasons that I love this profession, is we're hands-on with the patients and the families intimate with their their livelihoods. I would see your daughter two, to three times a week, yeah and I would get to know you as a person and her as a person. And I would be the one there. And or orthopedic surgeons, doctors, they don't have that kind of relationship with patients like we did
00:37:16
Speaker
no or I mean, I'm literally hands-on with you learning how to teach a card, how to walk. That is definitely part of it. and Each time we're with a different therapist, especially the one for those early years with Cora. I mean, she was literally part of the family. It was yeah yeah yeah just how it was.
00:37:36
Speaker
And your experience, Ian, do you have any experience that you want to share? Yeah, I actually prefer, if I get injuries, I actually prefer every kind of manual manipulation first before I do a surgery. I haven't had to do surgery yet.
00:37:49
Speaker
Um, I've had friends that do, I've done everything. I used to trade massage therapy and acupuncture for training sessions. And you can talk all you want about those, but I never felt better than I was getting that done once a week. You know, absolutely um I had a chiropractor. I know there's a lot of bad chiropractors out there that say they can cure stuff, but I had one that was really good and actually caught a shoulder injury that a sports medicine doctor.
00:38:10
Speaker
He couldn't even take proper x-rays on and just wanted directly to go to surgery. He assumed it was was a weight lifter shoulder, but it was not. And he was telling me about all these surgeries and shaving my clavicle and I go to my chiropractor. He takes an x-ray, they were clear enough where he could see that it wasn't the joint and they were blurry, so he didn't even charge me for them.
00:38:28
Speaker
and he fixed me with ART. So I always go to minute manual manipulation stuff and exercise first to try and fix myself. um The worst thing that I've ever had to deal with is I herniated a disc and it was so bad that I could barely walk. yeah I went to a neurosurgeon who actually got mad at me because I didn't want to do surgery right away to the point where I asked for a doctor's note for the doctor's day to give to work. And he said, what for? We didn't do anything. So I had to ask his nurse to write one for me.
00:38:57
Speaker
And I got a script for physical therapy. I did hydrotherapy with ah in ah in a heated pool for a couple of months and that fixed my back. yeah I try to avoid surgery at all costs because once you start down that road, yeah, hydrotherapy is right. But once you start down the road of surgery, in my experience, what I've seen, it just starts compiling. So I try to put it off. And also, and I i don't i don't want to be down that long. Like if I can avoid being out for months from doing things I want to do, then I want to avoid that.
00:39:25
Speaker
like So that's in how and that's what they're changing to the mental health side of things and I can we can go right off this. My next question is how did you feel about that? Like how did it change who you were as a person your identity? Did it give you anxiety? Did it cause depression as a result of that injury?
00:39:43
Speaker
ah The herniated disc pissed me off because it meant I couldn't do stuff and I was walking around like a like an 80-year-old man with a donut to sit on. and i like yeah you know It's really frustrating to be put on your ass when you're somebody who trains and a athletic and stuff and then you have to find yourself in a place where you can't really move on your own that well. um But yeah, it was really frustrating. and i mean The therapy was fun and the actual, this is actually kind of fun, but the pool I went to was a big pool. There was a lot of therapy.
00:40:12
Speaker
And I was, yeah I was watching little kids that couldn't walk, like learning to swim and kick their legs and build the strength up in their legs. All that stuff actually was kind of like uplifting and fun to see. And it was really, it made therapy a little more fun to see like other, like little kids trying to be better. So, you know, what excuse do I have at that point? Yeah. um me so yeah that's a true story I mean, and also once I was doing the exercises and and all that stuff in the pool and when I was home with the bands and everything, like,
00:40:41
Speaker
It just became like my brain would just switch into like weightlifting mode, like trying to pay attention to the mechanics of the movements I was doing and what I felt, yeah what felt okay, and all that other kind of crap. So yeah, I mean, that's that's what happened for me for the the disc was really not fun. I don't recommend kids. And did your did your physio or physical therapy use any mental strategies? how did your How did you think your mental health came before PT, after PT, and how was it affected during?
00:41:08
Speaker
um So it's not going to be a typical answer, I don't think, because I've been through a lot of medical stuff. so However you can. Oh, I know. I'm just saying it might be ah not be typical for most people. I've been through a lot of medical stuff. So for me, it was kind of just like this is the next thing I got to do. So it's just what I did. I was like I said, I was frustrated. I couldn't do what I wanted to do. But I mean, that's kind of normal for people, I would think.
00:41:32
Speaker
But, uh, I mean, you just do what you gotta to do to get through it. You get through it. It's like lifting weights, man. You you want to hit a goal and you got to do it. You got to eat, right? You got to make sure you eat your're sleep. You gotta to do all the steps.
Impact of Physical Injuries on Mental Health
00:41:41
Speaker
So your brain just, and once you get some kind of, uh, some kind of schedule or some kind of discipline, you can kind of start applying it to things, which is, I think weightlifting or like martial arts, just for the discipline alone, that kind of stuff is really important for people.
00:41:57
Speaker
Absolutely. um And as an athlete, I can speak to that same thing. Like when I when i have a problem, and I've talked to this before, I'm a kind of problem solutions kind of guy. I want to attack it. I want to fight head on. I want to fix it before anything gets done. And and when i'm ah when I'm a PT and I'm talking to patients like that, it's real easy as an athlete to be able to identify with you.
00:42:14
Speaker
you know if you would help you there but there is another mental aspect of it as a is because i as a athlete when i and college my freshman year of college i told me c l miniscus that was the first time i've ever been injured as far as an athlete is concerned and i went through a deep out of depression when i found out that i was gonna be able to play it again in nine months.
00:42:34
Speaker
yeah And it can kind of just tear you from the inside and you don't even realize it. like when when when When something that I love, and as I've told you guys, it saved my life, was stripped away from me, yeah yeahp like like ah like a rug, like ah like a trap door just opening up. like The only thing to fall down to is a pit.
00:42:54
Speaker
And I had to learn, I i gained 40 pounds. I was the biggest I've ever been. like i just i like I had to find out how to fight through that. And and luckily, you know i i sort of my athletic identity kicked in and I i attacked physical therapy and and athletic training with a vigor, much like you did. But there are people who don't have the capacity to do that.
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously I'm not, as I've said, I'm just laughed. I'm not an athlete. But I did put my back out once. So we used to live in a kind of mid-Tine house and we used to throw our washing down from upstairs. And it was in the hallway downstairs.
00:43:39
Speaker
And I went down to pick up the pile of washing, turn around, twisted, turn around, picked up the pile of washing and couldn't get back up again. Yep. Yeah. My back literally gone. Yep. Yeah. And I was like, right. Okay. I'll go and lay down in the living room, lay down flat in the living room, thinking that's a good idea. And then I couldn't get up. I was getting up and Claire couldn't help me at that point. That's my ex-wife. Claire couldn't help me at that point because she was laughing too hard.
00:44:09
Speaker
ah so on brand fromla thing yeah yeah yeah body way I ended up going to, the the only time I've ever had a physio myself, I went to a great guy in Belfast on the Androm Road, the Belfast back clinic.
00:44:25
Speaker
And I went and seen him for a number ah a number of weeks and he gave me exercises to do. And he talked to me, he goes that he goes, how do you, how you see you he looks at it and see what's happened here. I went through the various bits and pieces of what happened and how you we were going to fix it. And he goes, but how do how do you feel? He goes, how do you feel? I go, I feel fucking old.
00:44:46
Speaker
ah goes it's it goes it's not And this is probably 10 years ago. And he goes, this is not old. This is not you being old. This could happen to anyone. yeah This is just part of having a human body. Just this one of those things. um But in my head, I was really dying about it because I... you know it I would have been, let me see, it was 10 years ago, I'm 46 now. So 36, you think you're kind of invincible. Yeah, you're still in the head. do You know what I mean? And then suddenly one day you put your fucking back out trying to pick up a pile of washing. It's not like I was left in a car off a child that needs saved or
00:45:31
Speaker
you know what I mean, something mental I herniated by just sitting in a chair in an office. I mean, in my experience, there are typical injuries for weightlifting in sports, like ACLs are like really commonly torn. yeah Tearing muscles like in a lift is really common, but like the really, really big injuries I have found usually come from people doing really mundane things with it because you don't think about it. You're like, I'm going to sit in a chair. I've done it like a million times. You don't think about the body mechanics of sitting down.
00:45:56
Speaker
Yeah, it definitely does affect your mental health. Definitely. And that's me. It's not, imagine you were like a highly paid athlete and that's your and one that you're living to. You think you're indestructible because you're young and stupid at that point as well. And it's really gonna, it really gonna affect you. And part of that is getting over that hump of, Oh my God, I'm, I'm not indestructible. And Oh my God, I am getting old. And Oh my God, this is a warning shot that at some point my body will feel. And it's normally the first time that you recognize it. Well, I mean,
00:46:37
Speaker
well i mean I can sort of flip flip this to the other side too. It's like, you don't have to be an athlete. Like here where there's a, there's a stigma, like not a stigma, I guess a, um, sort of like A stereotype that we have here in the United States and maybe similar over in the UK, Ireland is farmers are people who refuse medical care because yeah because they can't they they can't afford to go. Not necessarily afford to go is in the money, but they can't afford to leave their farm. Take time off, yeah. yeah Take time off and so we are in our like a like the school and is in a rural community it's about an hour south of Raleigh North Carolina which is ah a pretty big hub um and it is farmlands and people who come there are farmers or local you know the Hispanic workers um and they are. They don't want to come and they don't feel like they can because of nothing and it changes who they are.
00:47:31
Speaker
They become, ah you know they start losing their job, they start losing their family, they start losing their money, their items, because everything that they are is in farming. And it's the same sort of identity switch of being an athlete or being a farmer or being a human being, a father, a mother, a caregiver, a worker. It doesn't matter who you are, but when an injury sort of flips you all the way upside down,
00:47:54
Speaker
it it affects how you can you operate in all aspects of life and and so that my next question was is do you guys feel that your mental and physical problems when it comes to injuries are separate.
00:48:08
Speaker
I think a mental would go with the physical injury, but my other mental problems are kind of separate. You know what I mean? Like there's definitely a mental issue tied to it. So if I have, so I have injured shoulders right now, yeah i tiny, tiny tears, like little holes in my right rotator cuff, which really messes up my pressing. I have, I think tenditis tendonitis is my guess from talking to a friend of mine as an occupational therapist in my other shoulder.
00:48:34
Speaker
And it affects curls too because it runs through my biceps. So whatever tendon that connects all that is one of those is pissed off. um yeah It's really frustrating to go to a gym for me and not be able to press the weight that I'm used to being able to press because my shoulders physically do not have the stability to do it anymore.
00:48:52
Speaker
It's something I'm trying to sort of rehab in a way, but it's such a long road now because I'm older and because the injuries are old as well. Well, one of them is old. ah It takes a lot longer and it messes with your head a lot when you're used to like, used to this amount of weight and counting on being able to do this weight for your working set. Always being able to do at least that much no matter what. That's like you're that's like your baseline and having that stripped away from you for years. It really messes with your head.
00:49:20
Speaker
and having to do the slow crawl back almost like you're starting all over again, which is really, really hard. But you do it. What do you think about about the question? Do you think that your physical and mental problems are separate?
00:49:34
Speaker
um
00:49:38
Speaker
In a short term, oh, that hurts. Oh, I feel down. Yes, they're separate. But in an overarching approach, they can a affect each other most definitely. And you're I have noticed that when I'm in a hefty bite of depression, things hurt more. My back feels sore. My legs feel creakier.
00:50:09
Speaker
yeah I have less willingness to get up and move about. And I know a lot of that's coming from the fact that in my head, the world is grey in this particular point in time. And you have to try and fight through that and kind of... Does that make sense? Absolutely. And one of the things I wanted to bring up with you guys is talking about some of the ways we view it now.
00:50:32
Speaker
um There is an overarching system that we use called the International Classification of Function, um and it is basically a way to view a patient with their impairments, which are like what's actually going on with their body.
00:50:49
Speaker
What's going on that they can and can't do so like are they able to be a father are they able to drive are they able to do whatever. And then the last box is down or contextual factors so what outside of that person is affecting them their recovery their injury and their ability to rehab and one of the things that we always add is mental health. And then one of the most poignant cases for us american football fans do you guys watch it all yep i know it but i don't watch it.
00:51:15
Speaker
Yeah, so there's an injury that just happened recently and I'm going to share, it's a big story. Do you know a name Deshaun Watson? Yeah. So he's been in the news recently because of his sexual assault cases, all the stuff that happened recently. He had a big contract and he's not doing very well as a quarterback. And last week he tore his Achilles. Do you think he is under a lot of stress recently from all the things he was going through? It's probably when he made sexual assault cases.
00:51:42
Speaker
And I'm sure there was stress, anxiety, and fear. And if you saw the way that he left the field, you can obviously see that that injury not only affected him, but what maybe caused that injury? The distress stressors, the anxiety, right? that that All that pressure that has been put on him, and he gets hurt right maybe i know I'm not saying that correlation causation, but I'm saying that there is an added contextual factor here that plays into each of our injuries.
00:52:14
Speaker
And it's something that we are trying to become more aware of. And that's why I wanted to come on here and talked about what my pitch is. Imagine if he was you know coming to the training room and I was a PT and being able to talk to him about these things. And he's able to open up to me. And what if he was just the normal toxic male about, you know like, I don't really need help. I don't really want to talk to anybody, my feelings. But as a physical therapist, again, like I've said before with Stuart's daughter, you know I would see her two to three times a week. What if I was able to talk to her about that stuff?
00:52:44
Speaker
What if I was able to tell her, like hey, talk talk to me about like how you're feeling, whatever. And we're still doing exercise, we're still getting the exercise benefits, we're still doing whatever. But I'm just able to bridge that gap, just able to crest over that edge of being able to find out what's underneath the surface. yeah And I'm not saying I'm gonna be able to cure it, but there's such a gap of of help that is needed in the field of being able to attach somebody who has an injury, a disability that changes who they are, even if it's small, like even, you know, a minor surgery or like, ah oh, I threw my back out and, you know, two weeks later down the line, you're like, I can go back to work. I'm fine now. But you even said you still felt bad for those little times. And you're in I cued in on this. Your therapist asked you how you felt.
00:53:36
Speaker
And you answered in kind, and because you don't work previously, you were able to answer. But think about someone who's not, I'm fine, I'll be fine. They sit there grumpy on their couch and upset the world because they're hurt. Well, you got to talk about me like that. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, if you don't, I now realize that if you don't get it out, it builds up and builds up. Well, the other thing too is if you're open with your PT, then it gives them insight to help them even more. So you're just not sure about it.
00:54:05
Speaker
It's not about them trying to be like ah not to step in as like a psychologist or like a mental therapist. It's just another gap to bridge to try and bring you both closer to fixing whatever's going on. good and and And again, in the medical society, I'm not allowed to treat. Yeah, exactly. like there is There's laws and ethics codes binding me not being able to. But what if I was able to use strategies to be able to bridge even a little bit of that gap to get them to be able to go get help?
00:54:34
Speaker
yeah We talk about a lot of being able to refer out and like to other providers giving their referral. So what if I had ah you know a 24 year old patient, you know freshly torn ACL, taking his whole career away from him and he's like, you know I'm depressed, what do I do? you know And I get the ability to talk to him about that.
00:54:54
Speaker
I mean, use strategies to be able to, hey, no negative self-talk, no reframe your thinking, being able to just use simple strategies to be able to be successful and then refer them out to somebody like my dad. There's somebody who can legitimately help you with what you're feeling. Your feelings are valid. And let me get you to somebody who can do that with you. It's definitely, I mean, it seems stupid to even think about it because it's definitely going to help rather than going Bye, I can't help you I'm here for this physical bit not that but e it seems it seems you're only going to help the patient or the people if
00:55:32
Speaker
you take an interest in the whole show, as it were? Well, it seems like more and more science is uncovering things that some of like the more weird side of things have already thought in that, like a whole person, whole body kind of way to tackle things is better than trying to break it all up all the time. So having a stack of people as like a medical team is better than just seeing a specialist for one thing at a time.
00:55:59
Speaker
So we at Campbell's my university. We pride ourselves on inter-collaborative teams. And we have days that we actually work with PAs, nurses, public health, a doctor of osteopathic medicine. And we come together to help treat like treat patients, their fake scenarios, but we each use our strategies and learn about each other and how to do that because ultimately, instead of the medical model being, you know, patients are at the bottom and doctors are at the top, it needs to be flipped on its head. Every person has a team of individuals that works for them.
00:56:35
Speaker
And one of those one of those strategies and resources in your pockets, especially for men, need to be mental health services. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. I don't go to mine because I'm trying to... you know I need to work for everyone on problems. I use it as maintenance now.
The Need for Mental Health Strategies in Recovery
00:56:49
Speaker
I go to her once every other month. but you know Once a month, they'd be like, hey, I need to check in. Here's some things I'm dealing with. Let me talk to you about some strategies.
00:56:57
Speaker
um Because i you know I've done the work previously to be able to help myself now, but I still need help. Again, my hubris, it allows me to be confident most of the times, but aa I still recognize that I have so much room to grow to be the kind of man I need to be as a future father, a future clinician, and treat the people I need to treat.
00:57:17
Speaker
Yep. Well, part of the thing too, like I was saying, like hol like what I was doing, admit like when I was getting manual manipulation stuff, like massage therapy, I got all kinds of weird Chinese stuff. They do gua sha on me and cupping. And scientifically that stuff doesn't really do anything, but it made me feel better when I was done. Like the next day I felt well way better. So... You cupped you? Yeah, i did cupping not not that kind of cupping, sir.
00:57:39
Speaker
Excuse me, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough,
00:57:52
Speaker
so i mean cough, cough, cough, cough,
00:58:02
Speaker
Like Gua Sha is weird. it's it's The funny thing about Gua Sha to me is an American took that thing and then repackaged it. And it's basically the same as Grestin from what I could tell. I've never had Grestin. Yeah. What's Gua Sha? I mean, you you and I were talking before the show about, you know, active active release. And yeah I want to let you know I've had Grestin done from an athletic trainer who was thing. and it um It fucking hurts. It hurts. It hurts a whole lot. Oh so my God. It's washha grass centerner so So Gua Sha is the traditional Asian way. You just need something like ah they typically use like a piece of jade or like one of those Japanese spoons and they say they scrape your skin. It looks like you got your ass kicked when you're done.
00:58:42
Speaker
You get all my stuff. It's weird, though, because it scientifically there's nothing there. But when they do it, you'll see some spots will turn red and it's not always the same spot. And some of it stays the same. So like they draw blood and stuff to the circuit surface. Yeah. and The mechanism of action.
00:59:00
Speaker
is basically drawing blood to that area to help heal the tissues that are prepared. That's what they say, quote unquote, science minor. It works, as far as I know, like it could be all in my head, like I said, but Grestin is basically the same, just an American, okay, and just was like, you need to buy these tools and this is the class, but it's basically the same. Yeah, and you need to pay this amount of dollars to be able to get certified to be able to do this on your patients. Yeah, I said, if you were to get $500 and take this two day long class, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I've had all kinds of bodywork. I've had acupuncture with like pulses going through like electrolysis stuff and that all kinds of stuff. I mean, it all helped ART fix my shoulder when that sports doctor wanted to do surgery on it. Yeah. I mean, I can't really complain about any of it. So I mean, I'm a big proponent of any of that stuff.
00:59:48
Speaker
Absolutely. And so to sort of wrap my questions up, and I kind of want to, this is the the boring research part of it that a lot of people probably don't want to hear, but you know it's a school project, and my shout out to my teacher, I got to do this part. um So some of the research that I've looked into recently, especially when it comes to physical therapy, is the combination of something called cognitive behavioral training.
01:00:10
Speaker
I'm just specific kind of mental health intervention that addresses people's problems and it happens a lot of the time in injuries right injury is a problem when it comes to a persons mental health it like i said we have been leading these questions specifically because we talk about how to change your identity.
01:00:26
Speaker
How does it change your mental health how does change your viewpoint to give you anxiety depression and that i have six research articles i'm not going to go through all it won't be a long speed but basically what i've looked at is the combination of cognitive behavioral training in combination with physical therapy has approved outcomes for patients with surgeries.
01:00:46
Speaker
low back pain traumatic incidences you know and there's a research that talks about people who are in car accidents and had no femur fractures ruptured in a quads and they were so they were. It basically not able to do stuff in hospital for a long time because that you know they were debilitated and the they call it complex rehabilitation where the ads mental health components and they were covered much quickly than their ah people who didn't have that.
01:01:12
Speaker
um and the last one is functional movement disorders which is if you look at the literature function of the disorder is a. I'm not gonna use the term psychosomatic but it's very close to that what that means is basically you have a.
01:01:29
Speaker
qualification of symptoms that aren't necessarily reproduced by like mechanical means, meaning that there's a play in your brain that causes other symptoms like pain. And one of the only ways to treat that is physical therapy with mental health. Okay.
01:01:45
Speaker
And so there are so many opportunities for us to reach people with this combination of exercise and mental health. And that's why I'm doing all this research. And that's why I want to write this proposal to these organizations, because I think it's so powerful. And the research facts it like mental health has proven to work for individuals. Physical therapy is proven to work for individuals. We need to be a better medical society of being able to help everyone with all the things they can. I'm not going to be able to treat your depression, but if I can even bridge that surface and find out what's affecting your back pain, your, you know, your recovery and be able to help you talk through that and make your outcomes, not only it will make our alliance as human beings together. Like you talked about your physios, like she was a part of the family. You use her specific words because she helped you with an intimate idea of getting your daughter back to walking.
01:02:37
Speaker
right That I can become a part of who you are, your journey, and you'll never forget that. I think it's so important to be able to get to people that way. we're I call it intimate because I think the word is so powerful because I am into people's lives and I'm actually, like I hold their future in my hands when treating them, some people. If I treat super athletes, like that money that they're getting is a result of what I would do.
01:03:01
Speaker
if i'm a neuro specialist or a pediatric specialist i can get your kid i could get your kid back to walking like it's such an important aspect in being able to talk about mental health and being able to slide that into treatment i think is just something that i need to reset it's also even having it to be honest for a lot of people even have enough training. That they're able to recognize.
01:03:24
Speaker
that someone is depressed or someone is anxious or someone is any of those mental health problems that come from injury or disability to be actually able to recognize them and see them and point them in the right direction can sometimes be enough to make a massive change in somebody's life.
01:03:44
Speaker
Because it's so one of those things, whenever you start doing something, when I started doing therapy and actually taking a look at what the hell was going on inside my head, um you kind of start to see it in other people. And you kind of go, hey, you should maybe try this. Have you tried this?
01:04:06
Speaker
or you know and you kind of want you want to kind of point people in the right direction. and it's just being ah It's building that awareness for other people to see it and the people around them. you know And just so I'm not talking out of my ass, I just got an email today about my certification. I'm showing my phone, it really won't see it, but I am a mental health and first aid certified, which is a certification that I got in nice in college that recognizes suicidality, ah depression, signs of anxiety, and being able to help start those conversations. And it's ah obviously, you know, the reason why I'm on here is something I've been passionate about and something I want to recognize in my patients.
01:04:47
Speaker
and help leading forward because i think it's important and you know exactly what you said is people who have been through before and are actually doing the work to get better um ah recognize symptoms and signs and other people and they're able to open those gaps and bridges and so you're so important to the field of being able to do that and have that conversation and this this whole podcast is the idea of if i can if i can bring one more person with me on this journey If i can help you get better because if people think of it like oh ah um that means that i'm admitting that i have a problem let me look yes you do. you would fat There's nothing wrong with it. And there's nothing wrong that because we all experience it.
01:05:27
Speaker
Yeah, and anybody that's any, you don't even have to be an athlete, but if you're any kind of mobile and getting put on your ass for a while can mess with you. And then if you stack in like the kind of trauma that Andy and I have where we can't sit still, it makes it even worse. Cause now you're like, not only are you chained down and unable to do what you want to do, you just really can't do it. So you have to actually confront some things you might not want to deal with at the time cause you're stuck.
01:05:49
Speaker
i like i So my thing is, I said, I like people. I like to call people. And my therapist recognized this before. And so did my partner. She's awesome. She was like, aya I don't like to listen to music in the car by myself. Like I do sometimes. But if I have the ability, I call anybody I can to talk to somebody because I don't sit alone with my thoughts very well.
01:06:13
Speaker
i I tend to do that. I phone people, or it's my mobile office, or I listen to podcasts, kind of like this one. yeah or ah Or things that I generally don't listen to music most of the time, unless the girls are in the car and they want to listen to whatever kids listen to today.
01:06:34
Speaker
ah but i don't Because if I listen to music, it ah it tends to make you drive too fast and drive like a head kiss. So i guess and that I listen to books or podcasts or phone people and talk a lot. I listen to a lot of debates that tends to occupy a lot of my brain listening to debates. Yes.
01:06:51
Speaker
So you have to have something cognitive going on or else or some so something called feelings arise. Yeah. Well, thankfully, thankfully for me as a musician, I can analyze music. So it is something I can enjoy and actually pick apart at the same time. So I mean, Stuart probably does that, too. Like when I hear I don't I hear music both holistically and then sometimes I can listen to a whole song and just listen to one piece of one instrument and be like, what the fuck are they doing?
01:07:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, being able to break it down with my ears kind of helps too, but I listen to a lot of debates. I think they're very interesting and definitely when they get rowdy, it's really fun, but still. It is really fun. It is really fun. That's all I had as far as my questions. Did you guys want to talk about anything else?
01:07:33
Speaker
I think we're good. I think it's been a good show. It's been an hour. It's been yeah it's been really fun, Andy. Yeah, I like this a lot. Really, really good conversation. Now, I don't know. yeah have You have listened to some of the shows, have you? Yeah, I definitely listened to my dad's episode and I've listened to the parts and pieces. So you know there's there's two there's two questions. There's the first one, which you've answered, and then there's the second one.
01:07:57
Speaker
is the only two questions we have that are set in the show. And this question is, what's the manliest thing you've done this week, Andy? Ooh, what's the manliest thing I've done this week? I love everyone's reactions to this question. I know, right? It's so good. Both questions get people to think for a minute. I love it. Yeah. Let me see. What is the manliest thing? That one's today, Thursday?
01:08:24
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I kind of got to rewind my view. um I think today, the manliest thing I've done is is help somebody else. Nice, nice. I grew up with a very strong idea of, my grandma says it all the time, she is, if you can feed one, you can feed a family.
01:08:46
Speaker
You know, like if you can feed yourself, you know, there's going to be room to feed another person. And she says, if you already seen five, you can feed six. And I have a big health component. And that's why I'm going to feel physical therapy. So I have a patient today who had, he was a drug addict um and ended up having an overdose that caused a stroke.
01:09:04
Speaker
um yeah And he was in a rehab facility for a long time and he's working every day to get better. And he prides himself much like you and I do, Ian, about like attacking with a fervorous attitude. like He was like, I wanna know what time I got or how many sets, how fast I do. And he's he wants to record it, he wants to watch himself, and he wants to be able to go back to that. And we got him to and improve today. We got to see him jump in his progression.
01:09:33
Speaker
um And helping another person and seeing the outcome is is something that I've used, man. That's cool. Nice. That's a fair answer. I like it a lot. Yeah, me too. All right, everybody. That's it for this week. Andy, it was awesome talking to you, man. Thanks for coming by. Really good. Thank you very much. Much appreciated. Obviously, I can't thank you for helping me enough with my project, but I want to let you know, even if I didn't have a project, I would love to talk to you guys again, and I so much appreciate you guys. Obviously, you guys have my contact now if you guys ever want to get in touch.
01:10:06
Speaker
I'm more than happy to talk with you guys whenever you guys are awesome. And I appreciate the work you guys are doing. Appreciate you too, man. If you have any referrals too, like the younger people, it'd be awesome to talk to some more younger people too. Absolutely. We got all kinds of people I'm trying to track down. So yeah, tell your friends. yeah Awesome. Awesome. All right. Goodbye, everybody. Have a nice week. Have a great week, everyone. Bye. Bye. Thanks, everybody, for listening.