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Episode 37: Skye and the protector of lesbians
39 Plays1 month ago
In this episode, Skye comes on to chat about trans issues, politics, and more.
Join the Masculinity convo on X & TikTok:
@txmpod
We are now on Discord as well. Please excuse the growing pains there.
https://discord.gg/SrUmwFcu
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Transcript
Introduction and Ice Tea Musings
00:00:30
Speaker
This is actually good. like I don't usually drink hard tea and stuff, but I feel like I should put ice cubes in this and sit outside in the heat. Which is probably why ice tea is not really a thing here. I mean, you can't get it. You do get it. from like I remember seeing it in a shop and whatever, but it's not something people really drink because it's freezing and a a cup of tea should be warm.
Introduction to 'Toxic Masculinity' Podcast
00:00:55
Speaker
Hey, kids, welcome to Toxic Masculinity with Ian Stewart. This week, we have my friend Skye joining us. Skye Stewart, how's everybody doing? What are we up to today? im Yeah, trying to take my mind off some things, you know? I am absolutely perfect. The world has never been more right. I have never been worried less worried about um conflict.
00:01:20
Speaker
women's rights gay rights and all sorts of rights in a part of the world that i'm a big fan of um and i'm not shit will leech and the everybody else but other than that i'm perfectly fine with the global economy you know that there are rights i'm worried about.
Humorous Take on Tariffs and Global Economy
00:01:38
Speaker
righting Yeah. the Global comics, that's, I mean, it's, is don't yeah it doesn't matter. it You don't affect it as much as you think you do. If he starts throwing tariffs on everything that we imported, it kind of will affect us. That's not going to affect us. That will only affect you. It'll affect a lot of places, I think. It won't affect us. Because tariffs are only charged for goods coming in. I know. I know how they work. Unlike most of the people in this country, I know how they work. I know he doesn't understand how they work.
00:02:10
Speaker
Well, I was kind trying to think on the bright side, right? And the bright side is, in four years, he can't run again based on the current stipulations. There you go. I was going to just say, assuming the rules continue as they are. I mean, they haven't continued. you know He voted yesterday in Florida, and he's a convicted felon. And felons can't vote, so I don't really understand how that worked.
00:02:39
Speaker
There's the tweet I saw a while ago that was like, the Democrats keep being like, there's a rule, dogs can't play basketball. And then on the other side, you've got the dog that just keeps dunking on them and no one cares and the refs aren't
Exploring Masculinity and Social Norms
00:02:50
Speaker
stopping them. Yeah. yeah So Skye, what does masculinity mean to you? What doesn't it mean? I i feel so defined by it in a way. um It's interesting. theres It's like a whole social order in a way. you know is It's like etiquette. like there's There's ways that you dress that are masculine. There's ways that you act that are masculine. For me, it feels like it it follows me around. like I get this like there's a little voice in the back of my head sometimes. I'm like, the way you're walking right now, that's masculine. It's it's interesting. why Why would that pop into your head? Why would you be so aware of that?
00:03:33
Speaker
ah because I happen to be transgender and gender dysphoria is a fascinating, fascinating brainworm that teaches you to to analyze the parts of gender that most people take for granted in ways that haunt you forever. like It's fascinating sometimes, the things that you pick up.
00:03:54
Speaker
Does it come from trying to figure out where you sit in the grand scheme of the multiple colored shades of gray, rainbow of gender that is what people perceive it to be now? I think it it is in some sense. like You're trying to figure out where you fit in the spectrum, but that requires you to understand the spectrum. like You need to know what the the rules are, like where what things do people typically do when they are performing masculinity, the things that people do when they're performing femininity.
Masculine Social Behaviors and Identity
00:04:23
Speaker
and you're like you realize the little things that you've been doing your whole life like like the nod when two guys see each other out in public and they do that little like head nod up and you realize after a certain point like i'm giving myself away every time i talk to someone because i'm doing it without thinking and it's something that only men do what no yeah it's like these little things and it's like no one should Yeah. like I've never seen a woman do the nod, dude. The nod is like a masculine thing or it's like, I think like I find it fascinating. The numbers. I'm literally feeling through every interaction I've ever had with. these like you going in his head like fast forward and There's a whole like trans meme culture and it's like surely not. I can't learn the nod. and That's really hard. The only thing I've and only time i've ever seen a woman do the nod is sarcastically.
00:05:11
Speaker
What's up dude like being a smart aspect of me what is that like when you just like walking past someone in the street or your bar or what. I'm like i so i work in a yes relations like a front facing kinda job and i see people come up to me like your work and i just like.
00:05:32
Speaker
I do the little nod as they're walking by me. It's just like I have acknowledged your presence gesture and it is uniquely masculinely coded and you never think about it. It's just something you're taught to do without anyone ever saying it, without anyone ever being like, this is a thing that men do. You just realized one day you do it because men do it. And then all of a sudden, yeah. My mind is fucking blown right now. I can't. I was not.
00:06:03
Speaker
ah that That also means that like ah you have to like either unlearn or recycle through the unwritten rules of the men's bathroom and things like that too. Yeah. That that you inherently learn somehow. Exactly. Nobody ever teaches you the rules. You just kind of pick them up. That's the thing that I find so fascinating about it. Don't don't stand if there's an open ual urinal that but you keep the urinal between you. Gotta keep a gap. Don't pick the one in the middle ever. i mean that's not I don't think that's... I think i mean... Are you going to say you think women do that too?
00:06:31
Speaker
No, because they have stalls. They have stalls, but I never use a urinal, so make some difference to me. What are you sitting? you know just No, i use ah I use a cubicle because I have the world's shyest bladder.
Navigating Masculine Social Rules
00:06:47
Speaker
That's fair. that's fine and To be honest, my dick's too big. I don't want to make anyone else feel bad.
00:06:55
Speaker
To be honest though, I've talked to them and they're like, they're like, they're like, wait, there's, there's rules in the men's room. Like you oh fuck of course and there absolutely are. And that that's the the thing that I find fascinating about masculinity is that like, to me it is, it's like being raised Catholic. And then like you almost go through that period of like, I had need to separate the parts of my identity that were like things that were just ingrained into me that I never really thought about and the things that I'm keeping. Like it's very interesting to me to to try to Figure out what's left of me when when I strip away the parts that I've been kind of running from a bit I'm sitting trying to think of other things that I do that would be and love would make me Inherently my I've never thought about this before this is the person to ask make me inherently Masculine ah well It's not that thing you call a beard fuck you
00:07:55
Speaker
oh man but the The only thing is whenever the the only thing that that instantly pops into my head is whenever... Do you ever get that feeling when you're in a group of people or with your friends, or you're in a pub or whatever the fuck it is, and you get that feeling of, Oh, I need to be alert. Something weird's happening. That person's a bit weird.
00:08:24
Speaker
or You sense a threat. And you made sense automatically stand up slightly straighter and kind of make yourself look a wee bit bigger. That's the only thing I can think of that I do that would be inherently, that seems like a very masculine trait to me. That, you know, that we kind of puff yourself out a bit.
00:08:49
Speaker
yeah Yeah, definitely like the the attack pose like i'm I'm I will win if you challenge me. Yeah, I mean I Anyone I you don you you you will I'll not win
00:09:06
Speaker
yeah no no exactly that's it that's the point of a puffer fish.
Cultural Differences in Social Gestures
00:09:10
Speaker
Yeah talking But it's a the peacocking steward. The fucking nod. Dude, there's also the bro hug. That doesn't happen with women, and I don't think. Yep. That's the, yep. I hug all my friends, man or woman. No, no, no. The bro hug is a specific hug. but' right right is this thing and It's the handshake half hug thing. Yeah, you start... Oh, I don't do that shit. I just... I know. i know in Put you gotta do that you do that you do the handshake and you pull each other in for a one half a hug thing. I am very much comfortable with her. I just hug my friends or people. I don't give a shit. I don't think it's even like I don't feel discomfort from it. It's just like kind of like culture. Sometimes it comes from culture. Did Jalen talk about this in our second episode? I don't know. Maybe a long time ago. I think where he talked about, uh, you he did. do, you do something as a European that Americans men might find, um, uncomfortable. What's that? You have kissed me on the cheek before. Yeah, why not? That doesn't happen here. That is definitely not an American thing to do. That is not an American thing to do. Mike, I didn't take offense. I didn't even think twice about it because it's you, but that's not a thing that like, I wouldn't, you would never catch Tom kissing me on the cheek.
00:10:26
Speaker
I have kissed both of you. I know. And none of neither one of us reacted because we know. But it's not it's not an American thing. I mean, you wouldn't just willy nilly throw it out there, but I mean, um amongst your friends and shit, it's not even a thought here. Yeah, no, it doesn't happen here.
00:10:44
Speaker
and that you know obviously And we would be seen as being um almost prudish in that respect. We're in France. like though ah France, they catch you three times. Italy, they catch you twice. Germany, they try and take over your country. No. Not this century. Not this century, that's it. Your job.
00:11:11
Speaker
yeah were We're picking up the slack over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's kind of that's kind of, I never thought, i never honestly, I never thought about that. I must get a badge made up actually that says, I'm European, your friendship denotes consent.
00:11:33
Speaker
Something like that. Yeah. Like if you do that to a regular dude in America, that doesn't really like, even if you're friends and they're not expecting it and like they don't know the culture at all, they'd probably look at you like, what the fuck? Like real quick, especially if they're insecure yeah dudes. It doesn't matter in America. yeah't much it's cheek man It's like a very purity culture thing with masculinity here. It gets less about the things you do and more about the things you do not do.
00:12:01
Speaker
Okay. That's interesting. That's an interesting way to look at it.
Freedom in Gender Exploration
00:12:05
Speaker
I mean, it's true. So how do you find life navigating that? It's been, I mean, because of the way that I've been thinking about it, it's very liberating. Because I spent a lot of my life with a lot of things that were just casually off limits, like emotionally or like the way that you build relationships with people. And the fact that I feel like I'm able to explore those things now has been honestly really wonderful. Like, that's the of all the things that have come with transitioning, finding myself, all that, the relationships I have with people feel stronger now. I feel like I'm able to engage with people in a level I wasn't before, because I was too busy both playing this game of trying to fit in with masculinity and also this autistic thing of trying to mask desperately to like, this is the thing people are doing around me, I have to be doing this. It's really interesting to watch that.
00:12:59
Speaker
you you have autism? I do. I've got a touch of the tism as they say these days. Nice. um So yeah, yeah that's a double trouble situation there that you're kind of navigating. Yeah. um But it's like they go together a lot. like Statistically, it's super common for autistic people to identify as like non-cis. ah And I think a lot of it is because autistic people struggle a lot with understanding or necessarily like just inherently believing in social institutions. You show me something and you're like, this is how the world is. My instinct is to ask, but why is it like that? That doesn't have to be like that way. Why do we do that? And I think with a lot of people on the autism spectrum, you look at something like gender and it's like, this is how gender is. This is what men do. This is what women do. This is just natural. And you think to yourself,
00:13:53
Speaker
But I could be doing that. like Even though you said i that's not what we do, like why why can't it be this way? And I think that kind of results in a lot of people having crossover in that space. like A lot of people who are autistic will find themselves more willing to explore that spectrum. Now, Sky, is it fair to say that you're still kind of like searching the spectrum to find exactly where you fit in? Is that a fair thing to say?
00:14:16
Speaker
ah Bob Dylan still searching, you know? Yeah. yeah Okay. I'm just making sure the reason I'm asking that is because I'm trying to set this up because I think it's going to be a different perspective than most people. Like usually there's trans people are like, you know, I'm, I was born a female, but I feel male. Like you are very much in the middle of the spectrum, just like kind of surfing back and forth. Like if I were to ask you what pronouns you'd be like, I don't give a shit.
00:14:38
Speaker
Whatever makes the joke you're telling funnier. and Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like you don't care. You don't care what people use because you're not even 100% sure where you lie or if it matters, right? Yes. Okay. It's a very weird place to inhabit. Which is a different thing than most people think of when they think of trans, which is why I think it's interesting to have you on and being so willing to talk about this stuff. And I know.
00:15:02
Speaker
Stewart has had questions that he's always been shy to ask for some reason and i was like dude as long as you ask from a place of innocence yeah curiosity ask away dude. Yeah ill i always try to come from a point of i'm trying to learn.
00:15:16
Speaker
And to be clear, I've known Sky for what, like two years now? Something on that order. Yeah. Sky is just Sky to me. Like I don't think twice. Well, I mean, well, that's... But the thing is, is like, so the... It's weird for me to say, Sky, that all of my friends are just my friends to me. It doesn't... it It's a very...
00:15:44
Speaker
maybe Maybe that's ah naive of me to think of that, but it's a rare occasion, I think. of my friend's gender? yeah no you dont Right, yeah. i think it's a lot of talk A lot of the time, it's much more like of a subtle difference in how we think of people and than we necessarily realize. um I'm very happy that I generally tend to occupy a unique space around people. like i've always Again, as an autistic person, I've always felt like I never quite
00:16:16
Speaker
did fit in well to any of those labels and I never did feel like people could walk away and be like, yeah, that person is a lot like these other people. um It's kind of nice to feel like I'm currently occupying a space where you kind of are forced to look at me as like a a unique construct. um But yeah, and I think ah Gender is one of those things where it doesn't come to the forefront of your mind a lot of the time when you're talking about people in your life. But it does sit in the back of your mind a lot more often than you might think. And like I've really been forced to think about the number of little things that happen behind the scenes relating to that. And it changes your worldview in a lot of ways. Can you give us some examples?
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um like there are The classic example in like movies, TV shows, like women going to the bathroom together, ah there's the way that female social circles work is different. And when you occupy a box, like just, I am a man, the way that you interact with like female friends there are the lines that don't necessarily cross. like My sister would have sleepovers and like all of her friends, they would just set up all their sleeping bags in like one big row and sleep basically tucked into each other all night. it's like That's really, like men don't hang out that way. And it's really weird to kind of exist in this space where like you can chat with the boys and also women will gossip with you. And like you kind of
00:17:50
Speaker
People, both groups are kind of willing to sort of put you in their box when it's time, like when it's appropriate. Okay. Very interesting things. Like you just, you see different sides of people when you can be approached from different angles. I get to see the information that doesn't often make it from one camp to the other. Okay. It's interesting.
00:18:16
Speaker
I know you got questions, dude. I'm trying to be quiet so you can ask the questions you've always wanted to ask or been curious about. You've put me on a weird place now where I'm like, oh, that's fine. I can ramble incoherently for hours if you let me. Yay, the tism.
00:18:33
Speaker
is there
00:18:39
Speaker
As you're more, ah some correct me if I'm wrong, you're more fluid in your gender outlook. Would that be right? yeah like it's Yeah. I've kind of reached this point of like, I am beyond trying to figure it out for the moment because I don't think I'm going to get a straight answer. So I just kind of... No pun intended. No pun intended. No pun intended. I don't know. It's less like every day I feel something different and more like every day I feel Something, but I don't know what it is. Yeah. But the main thing is that you're happy in yourself. Exactly. And I'm much happier now. That's the most important thing that I can say is that I'm happier now than I have been in years and years. Okay. ah So as someone that is able to kind of straddle the various camps,
00:19:36
Speaker
Is there bits, what bits from the masculine camp do you find most questionable? they Well, I mean, that is being that that's the camp I started from, and it's the one that I've kind of moved furthest away from. like I definitely have a lot of complicated emotions wrapped up in it, but like there's a lot of like
00:20:04
Speaker
How do I put it? There's like a lot of hazing stuff. There's a lot of like like teasing and intimidation. And some of it is like, yeah, it's it's playing along. it's like i I get it. And some of it just has always felt antagonistic to me. And I've struggled ah with it a lot. As someone who, again, as someone on the autism spectrum, I was not often capable of keeping up with it. so it always I struggled with it personally a
Experiences in Boy Scouts and Masculinity
00:20:28
Speaker
lot. like I was briefly in The Boy Scouts. I was bad at both halves of that title.
00:20:32
Speaker
um And it was the nightmare for me. I got bullied a lot. It was the only time in my life I've ever been bullied. i like Through school, it was more like, like everyone was like my best friend, but they wouldn't actually talk to me because I was like the autistic kid that everyone kind of figured out I had something different about them, even though I didn't know what it was yet. um like In the Boy Scouts, it was like, this is a very like explicitly, this is a masculine space. We are testing the waters of what's going to become our personas. Is it though?
00:21:03
Speaker
I mean, I'm going to be honest. I mean, they're all hanging around in their wee shorts with their waggles and they're all gone counting. Seems kind of gay. like I mean, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. No, I'm just saying. Got her in those badges. Yeah. and Yeah. I got my own badge. We can emasculate Boy Scouts. I don't know if that's a good thing, but whatever.
00:21:29
Speaker
i but I have a friend who a who is a scout leader and i I do take the piss out of him a lot more. He's a great guy and he does great things for a lot of young people that need help. yeah yeah um But also to say it, it to say it really masculine kind of makes me laugh and chuckle. I guess it's less that it's like really, really masculine and more that like growing up, it is a source of masculine influence in a way that a lot of things aren't explicitly meant to be. Is that because you put a bunch of boys together, they're going to see who can pee the furthest? I think some of it is that. Pick up the biggest rock. You're supposed to be learning like survival skills. like
00:22:17
Speaker
rugged individualism. And then especially in the troop that I was in, which was basically run by a bunch of adults who didn't want to run it. So they let all the boys do all the work, which it inevitably turned into Lord of the Flies. ever course not obviously You end up in this, like just a really raw, immature, like boys being boys energy. And I mean that in the bad way. And right okay it was, a it was a lot for me at the time. It was a struggle.
00:22:44
Speaker
So yeah you you said you were bullied? In the Boy Scouts, yes. Right. That was like the one place where it was like I wasn't performing the masculinity that they wanted me to. And I got called the F slur a lot. And I didn't figure that out about myself for years after. So I give them credit for getting it right first. You're doing boy wrong.
00:23:07
Speaker
and is that yeah it's like the yeah it is is And is that from the the kids who were in your year, for want of a better word, that were in your group? All across the spectrum. It was there was the older kids. I never stayed long enough for there to be younger kids. I didn't last a full year. yeah Understandably.
00:23:27
Speaker
so yeah
00:23:30
Speaker
fuck me really annoys me no yeah it was it was an unfortunate egeman you know I got bullied at school I did scouts for a while, didn't, wasn't really into it and left. I was in a similar thing to to the scouts called the CLB, which is the Church Lads Brigade, I know the irony of that, it's hilarious, it's a big giant atheist. But I don't remember, but for me school, I was bullied a lot in school um because
00:24:06
Speaker
I guess to the the standard schoolboy, like, look, I wasn't as masculine as I should be, which is normally the reason I was seen as easy prey because I liked singing and dancing.
00:24:25
Speaker
and um theatre and had long hair fucking theatre kids and all that kind of shit and i was just a wee bit i was just a wee bit different and you kind of go is it said you know is it coming from you kind of think back on it now and you kind of go why I kind of kind of think sometimes that maybe some of the people that are doing that Boolean were doing it because
00:24:59
Speaker
Maybe they were angry that they didn't have the balls to do the shit they wanted to do themselves. Do you know what I mean? yeah Maybe I'm giving them too much fucking credit. Like I said, there's a lot of like purity test stuff. like It's a lot about what you don't do. So I think when you're trying as a as a young kid to figure out where you're going to fall into this spectrum and like what does it mean for me growing into a man? what What am I going to be? It's really easy to say, I know I'm a man because that kid ain't one.
00:25:28
Speaker
it's It's super easy to do that like you can compare yourself to these other people and say well look at this this person does all these things that makes them not ah not a real man and that they're sissy and they're gay and all that and then you walk away from that feeling like super secure like i know what i got going on. That kind of explains the facades too yeah exactly but i mean if everybody has.
00:25:49
Speaker
Everybody has a facade. Yeah, to a point, but also people, but also people code switch all the time. They just don't know that they do it. Some people aren't aware they do it. Like I, I have long said, like we had the whole trauma thing and we talked about me and how I can, like, I'm like a chameleon kind of with different groups. It's cause I can code switch cause I can pick up on what I see and it's still me. It's just a more fitting version for them to accept me kind of thing that I've learned by watching and observing them.
00:26:17
Speaker
because I don't also, my goal is not to offend people. So I learned their limits and laws and rules and their little groups so that I can make it through and make it easy and you know, be accepted. Cause it's a group I want to be in for whatever reason. So, you know, code switching is common. So, I mean, everybody does wear some kind of mask, even if it's just a partial one. Yeah. So growing up, right?
00:26:44
Speaker
and Did you always feel that you didn't really fit in with your male peers? Oh, absolutely. It's it's an interesting. i talk I know it's hard to kind of take the autism out of it. Yeah. that's Because that's your only frame of fucking reference. But also it's probably what makes you more aware.
00:27:11
Speaker
That's how I see it. um there There's the common you know trans narrative. like When I was three, I tried on my mom's high heels and it felt right. like like that That's the story that everyone is like expecting to hear. we Surely we we all did that, did we now?
00:27:27
Speaker
Maybe. But fuck there's no way everybody. I'm not denying it. I just don't remember it. I remember playing. I remember playing family with my cousin, but I wasn't allowed to be your husband, obviously, because she's my cousin. So I was the fucking dog. I remember that. And that makes sense. Yeah, it's a lot of fucking sense. Look at my face. i know think My problem is I just imagine Ian when he five with that beard. So that's kind of funny. I cannot. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The beard is coming. It's getting cut back this week. I need a break. So
00:27:58
Speaker
Growing up, what at what point did you kind of start to go maybe... Maybe there's something else going on here? Yeah, that's actually should like the interesting thing for me is that again, ah a lot of the narrative that you hear online and that you see is like, I've always known. I've known since I was young, like always been part of me. And I don't relate to that. I think part of it was that um the you have to dissect a lot of things on the autism spectrum. It can be harder to figure out where my feelings are and figure out like where, like what was what, but like,
00:28:35
Speaker
For me, it was just this long and general sense of, I don't fit in with these people. like the like I have this fascination with girls that I associated. I assumed this is like, I just get crushes easily on girls.
00:28:50
Speaker
because everyone like the boys like girls and I know that I like girls and girls are really cool and interesting in all these fascinating ways. And meanwhile, I talk to men and I'm like, I don't really relate to any of you and I don't really understand how you work and you kind of like, your whole vibe is something that actively upsets me. I don't like, I don't fit into this. And you don't really think about it in terms of gender, because your entire life you've been not really taught that like,
00:29:17
Speaker
there is this other thing. You're just like, I just assume that I'm kind of weird. And it was i'm kind of weird. So we're all kind of weird when you think about it, but that makes it really hard to figure out which kinds of weird are just, you know, you're weird and which ones are, Oh, this is like, this is it. yeah Exactly. Uh, it was in like middle school when I first started thinking about like, wouldn't it be like interesting if I could like,
00:29:42
Speaker
wear different clothing. I figured I would like wear skirts and stuff. And it was in high school, like late high school when I was finally like, oh, Oh, this is, oh, this makes way more sense now because i I had thought about it in the past. People have been like, oh, you know, like transgender people will exist. And I've been like, yeah, but they all knew since there were tiny kids and I have never thought about that in my life.
Realization of Gender Identity
00:30:04
Speaker
So clearly I, who was constantly thinking about women all the time, couldn't possibly be trans. But because they're telling that story up, they're telling the story of, I've always known this.
00:30:16
Speaker
In hindsight, it's once they've come to the firm realization. So in hindsight, they'll go all clearly I always knew. Yeah, exactly. And I can look back on my own mind and I can find moments and memories from way back when I was young that are like, Oh, you were a trans idiot. But like,
00:30:36
Speaker
I think there's also this pressure of like as a minority group, that is like you your our rights are being frequently threatened. It's a lot like when like the gay community talks a lot about like this isn't the choice. And I think it's the same thing here where it's like the story reads better to a cishet majority audience. If it starts with, I've known since I was three, this has always been who who I am. I think my version of it where it's like, I didn't know until late high school and I still don't really know. I'm just figuring it out as I go. I don't think my version sells really well on the political sphere. My version of that story is less inspiring. But it means that people like me have a bit of a harder time figuring it out because the information that they get
00:31:18
Speaker
doesn't really give them that, like, this could be how it goes for you, too. I think your story is more relatable to me, though, because of somebody who spent like middle school and high school trying to figure myself out. It wasn't the same. Like, I'm not trans, but I think we all I've said this before. The way I've always related to my trans friends is because I tried so many skins on in middle school and high school to fit in until I found where I fit and I just stopped giving a fuck. Yeah. And it's just who I am. So I think your version of the story kind of I can relate to more because I didn't start dealing with any of that stuff until you know you start changing. You start putting puberty and stuff. You start thinking things out a little more and trying to see where you fit in and why people don't accept you as readily. or you know so That was my journey. so i kind of Like I said, I definitely relate to your version of the story more. yeah
00:32:02
Speaker
I'm also curious to, sorry, go ahead Scott. I think the internet has given people with versions of the story more like mine, a lot more space. like I think the narrative back when it was still like what we're seeing on Oprah or whatnot.
00:32:17
Speaker
was much more narrowly defined. And I think now, especially autistic trans women the that don't figure it out until high school, they all find each other on Discord now and they they make catgirl memes at each other. like They're doing fine. I know a lot of them, they're my best friends. So I'm curious now because you said you felt discomfort around like males before. like You didn't like the way they acted and interacted and it wasn't comfortable for you.
00:32:44
Speaker
You are one of my friends now, so how does that change now that you're figuring yourself out and being and around adults and people that, for those that don't know, people that look like me who definitely does not look like somebody who's necessarily acceptable.
00:33:00
Speaker
It's necessarily a first sight so really cool question. um I think there's there's like several pieces to it. um like One big part of it, obviously, is I'm no longer in like middle school, high school. like As you grow into yourself, in general, this always gets easier. like Talking to people is easier.
00:33:20
Speaker
And i think also as an autistic person like the classic like one of the classic symptoms of like what used to be called asperger syndrome is like, prefers to be friends or talk to people who are like in an age group above them rather than their peers. like yeah i've I've always had an easier time talking to what i perceived as adults because i didn't really register like,
00:33:41
Speaker
Fucking fold you. You just got folded on the top. Fucking fold your ass. Fair enough, fair enough. That's the same. Coors, my my ah Sky, I don't know if you've listened to the show, but and my daughter has autism too. Okay. And she's 11 and her best friend, best friend, is a 60 year old woman ah who is my ex-wife's godmother.
00:34:12
Speaker
And honestly, she'd go to her house for a cup of tea most days. um of and she is They're they' best friends. like There's no two ways about it. And that thing of kind of people with autism gravitating to older people, I think some of that comes because they're more predictable.
00:34:30
Speaker
I do think that kids are really scary. And as a kid who's still figuring out how you interact with people, talking to kids who are also figuring that out, horrifyingly scary. Because they haven't figured out the rules yet either. Exactly. And you're going, what's happening? Why are you licking the walls? What's going on? so yeah it's it's It's strange. I am i am curious, Skye, even though you might have had a cheat code because you've heard me, maybe you heard me talk before you met me.
00:34:59
Speaker
Only a little bit. What did you think ah my reaction was going to be when you first met me? you With our mutual friend. Right, right. Like the way I look and stuff, the way I present typically to people. ah What I will say is that I do typically do well in any sort of setting. Like I'm also a pretty good coat switcher these days. Yeah. I'm just asking because of the tism and everything else you deal with, so I'm just curious.
00:35:23
Speaker
I think my initial read on you is like you are either going to be like this is either going to be a conversation that I have to awkwardly avoid a whole bunch of topics lest the illusion be shattered. but but This is going to be like an awesome Thor protector of lesbians moment. I was very happy with which one it was.
00:35:45
Speaker
I have earned my honorary lesbian card from multiple lesbians. So nice. I guess that's called out. So, but yeah, that's interesting. I'm just because of the way you've had to deal with just society in general. I was just curious what you thought. Yeah. Yeah. Do you mind if I ask what age you are? Yeah, I'm 23. OK. How dare you, sir?
00:36:07
Speaker
Well, am I reading over or under your expectation there? and You look pretty young. it's It's hard for me to tell because I don't have crap about that type of thing. I am still 15 in here. I would like to point that out. I know I present as a 46 year old man.
00:36:29
Speaker
But I'm still a stupid teenager in this brain of mine. And long may that last and because it's the best way to be. sell The ability to be silly and do stupid shit is the best. um So can I ask? You don't have to answer this question. Okay. How did your parents react? It has been, honestly,
00:36:58
Speaker
Very, very pleasant overall. i ah I am originally from the Northeast. ah And in the US, that's a good place to be. New York, that kind of direction? Very close. I'm from Rhode Island, which is nestled into Massachusetts, not to be confused with Long Island, which is a part of New York.
00:37:16
Speaker
um But ah up there, it is generally a lot better. like One of my aunts goes to church and their church does pride events. And where everyone speaks about their queer like relatives and how much they matter to them. like It's a good area. And I think I have had like maybe one or two members of my family that have struggled with it a bit.
00:37:38
Speaker
I have never like i have never not received hate and I have mostly, even when I've received confused and really worried for me support, I have always received support from my family. It's honestly, I feel extremely extremely lucky about that. I think people like in general Maybe like Stewart our age and older have a harder time wrapping their brain around it and then also Something I even struggle with but I'm very upfront with is like like rewiring my brain It's like like we said before it's like literally decades of rewiring my brain because I am supportive and people know that I'm pretty open about that but like
00:38:16
Speaker
It's hard to switch sometimes, but for you, for me, when I first met you in my head, I knew that you were trans, but I also felt that you were a female. So that's why i've always I've always defaulted to she when I talk to you, but I know you i know you don't care, but that's that's yeah that's how you present it to me.
00:38:38
Speaker
That's actually like it's really fascinating. Obviously my job now ah working with like a lot of just basically people off the street. ah You end up seeing a lot of interesting patterns in like the way people interact with you and how that changes with how they gender you.
00:38:54
Speaker
Like it's really weird like I've recently kind of crossed the turning point where it's like if I don't use my voice Pretty much everyone assumes that i I'm um female like that's say basically default now ah When I do use my voice it becomes a total toss-up But like sometimes you like but you can tell I have watched people switch three times in a row like they they will say something to me be like hi sir and then look at me again and be like I Sorry, miss. And then I start talking and then they turn to their kid and like, talk listen to what-
00:39:27
Speaker
they said. It's really fascinating. Is that coming from the confusion or that they don't want to offend you? It's totally both. It is a combination of this brief moment of, hold on, the part of my brain that is constantly scanning to see what gender someone is, which is something you probably don't think about. But when you look at a person, you immediately think, oh, that's a man, that's a woman. So people look at me and the first thing they get is,
00:39:55
Speaker
Oh scanning failure i don't know which one this is yet yeah so they're like. Take in more information what's going on how do they sound they make their guess they watch my face they try to figure out how i reacted which my reaction is always neutral and friendly so it's not helpful to them at all. and then they pan an Absolute panic attack and it's funny every time.
00:40:15
Speaker
This guy's just out here trolling everybody, just being their self. It's really interesting when like people come up behind you, they react differently to you because the first version of you they see, they're not even looking at your face, they're just seeing your hair.
00:40:30
Speaker
And it's really weird. Men will put their hand on me now, which is something that never used to happen to me. I once had a guy come up to me and was like, I guess you're the guardian of the lion, huh? And he put his hand right on my shoulder and kept it there for like five seconds as he walked by me. Did you count five Mississippi's? Pretty much. like That never used to happen to me. And it's like really weird. It's like the when people look at you differently and they see the different person. How did that hand make you feel?
00:40:57
Speaker
It made me feel, and this is something that a lot of trans women will talk about, um simultaneously, like grossed out of like, oh this man is doing a ah weird creepy old man thing
Late Lessons in Gender Interactions
00:41:10
Speaker
on me. And also, he thinks I'm pretty enough to do a creepy old man. word you sort man That's fucking amazing. ah yeah kind of i kind of i can I had a ah had a thought. but That was going to be the case. Yeah. it It's really weird. it is ah it is ah It is an older person thing you to do that. um Definitely.
00:41:39
Speaker
ah but also for them to do that must be you kind of, yeah. but Especially like, yeah you have to remember also that's like part of the learning to gender that kids go through. ah Women are taught from a very young age, like girls are taught at like 10, 12. This is the way men are going to treat you sometimes. so And thats that's a scary thing to think about on its own. But then you realize that for me, like,
00:42:07
Speaker
I didn't start thinking about transitioning till I was 17. And I didn't start like passing until I was like in my 20s. So like there's a whole, whole like stretch of time where I was not learning those lessons. So they're hitting me very shockingly now, cuz I'm just getting them without any expectation or like cultural training that this is what's gonna be part of my life now. It's very interesting. um Amazing.
00:42:34
Speaker
yeah no Finally, it's still someone they can ask questions to and he's like, he's like, like awesome great i think's my as in this Favorite observation I have made is that my hair gets a lot of compliments. And I have noticed if you vocally say, I like your hair, you compliment my hair. You're probably three times more likely to gender me male.
00:43:01
Speaker
My hair is like only ah standout worthy of compliment if it's guy hair. if it's hair on a like it's like Women have long hair, so people don't think to be like, oh, I love your hair to every woman they see. But my hair, if it's a guy, is like, oh, interesting, long hair on a man. That's fascinating and very cool.
00:43:19
Speaker
it's it's fascinating and to i mean did This is just me theorizing about what I've noticed. I have to assume. as well i grew up I grew up a young metler and so everyone had long hair. ah stueart if they see that i may have your hurt By the way, when my hair is long, it's like yours.
00:43:40
Speaker
and it's ah Yeah, it's although it never hangs down to the shoulders so lustrously. I have fought so hard to get down this far. As we said on last week's show, I had i used to put i start to put when I was like a teenager and was just trying to go out to gigs.
00:43:59
Speaker
and wanted my hair to hang down like everybody else's. I used to put baby oil into my hair. Okay. This is pre... Just like to weigh it down a bit. You know, your options were ah wet look gel that turned to plastic or brill cream. You didn't have a lot of options back in the 90s. So I used to put baby oil in my hair and to try and get it to hang down. But then I used to go out and do head banging on it and it just turned into a big puffball.
00:44:25
Speaker
Oh, my my hair can puff up good. Ah, see? It used to do like the Greek god halo thing. Oh. Yeah, that my my awkward middle like growing my hair out face was very fun. I used to do like gigs at bars playing the drums and all of that happened before I grew my hair out and it feels like such a wasted opportunity. Yeah, that's funny.
00:44:50
Speaker
Alright should we cover the elephant in the room for the last few minutes here we have as well okay. So yesterday was our election day here when we're recording yeah. um Since we just happened to this was not planned obviously like for this but this is just the day it just happened to be the day that we got the news or who was our president so i'm just curious as a trans person.
00:45:17
Speaker
We obviously don't know what's going to happen specifically yet. We still have months to go to figure out what exactly is possible and all that other shit. Anyway, just your knee
Concerns Over Trans Rights and Protections
00:45:25
Speaker
jerk reaction. What are you most worried about right now?
00:45:29
Speaker
There are a lot of little things, I think. ah Obviously, I think the big thing that we're going to see first is ah restricting access to like changing gender markers, changing names. like That's going to get hard right away in a lot of states. I think access to healthcare care for minors is going to be difficult first, and they're probably going to try to use that as a justification to expand it to adults later.
00:45:50
Speaker
um As far as like federal stuff goes, I can see them trying to like engineer a Supreme Court case to strike down some of the things that my community cares a lot about. but like they haven't really like Project 2025 doesn't actually have a specific, like here's the thing we are going to do, but it does say something like, The Department of Health and Human Services is currently falling to woke transgenderism and we're going to have them cut it out. So like what does that mean? How do you plan for that? What does that mean? ah We don't know. It's certainly just saying they're doing the bad thing. The only thing I seen today was that they said he was going to ban
00:46:25
Speaker
and he was going to ban transgenders and i don't know how the fuck that works exactly like it's when you create a villain vaguely enough where you haven't actually said what the policy will be when you win i have no idea what it's going to be yet yeah well here that's that's that's the problem that's the We are talking about the Garbles playbook here. Yeah, I think. Yeah, he bullshits a lot too. So his rhetoric is not always matched up to his actions and so on and so forth. So it's too hard. You have to pick out the parts like what's actually going to happen and what was just talked. And I think in general right now, all I can really for sure say is that there's a lot of vulnerable people in my community right now.
00:47:08
Speaker
And if the government isn't gonna be there for us, we're gonna have to be there for each other. I know a lot of people are like stockpiling their medication, a lot of people are like making plans to leave areas. like A lot of people are doing their best to help the people around them that need it, and that that inspires me. Even if we can't win for right now, the next generation will have a community that fought for them, and that's the best you can hope for.
00:47:33
Speaker
What do you think about trying to twist the talking point about states rights around to try and fight at the state level, which is a much more personal level to start in fighting what's coming, potentially coming, I should say.
00:47:46
Speaker
I mean, I think right now there are a lot of states that have been passing like basically sanctuary stuff, like like really good laws and really good policies. The state that I originally come from is doing pretty well, Massachusetts, New York, California, all that. like they They are all enshrining protections. I think the question is, cuz again, it's one of those things where the the other party is like,
00:48:11
Speaker
whenever we don't have federal control, we're all about states rights. And the moment we get federal power, we're gonna use federal power. So like I think no matter what protections we put in an interstate level, we're only one Supreme Court ruling from having to like go underground again. you know like I think one thing that's probably going to happen in the next four years is marriage equality is gonna fall. um like i It's only held up right now by a Supreme Court ruling, I don't see that.
00:48:38
Speaker
but is so
00:48:42
Speaker
Like when Ireland voted for marriage age equality, it was voted into the constitution. ah For us, it was upheld by a Supreme Court ruling. ah Same as Roe v. Wade. A lot of recent American like policy has been decided by either executive order or Supreme Court decisions because Congress has been increasingly useless in the past 20 years. That's a Bergefell, right? Yeah, that was a Bergefell.
00:49:09
Speaker
So like there are a lot of things in the US where basically whenever the administration changes, tons of policy can shift overnight. Because so much of it isn't in the hands of Congress, because Congress won't do anything. So the president keeps signing executive orders and the Supreme Court keeps deciding decisions. Yeah.
00:49:26
Speaker
Yeah, thats that's a lot of states have been trying to be like in their constitutions or in their legislatures, like we're going to support this. This is what like we are. Yeah. Which even if it goes to the Supreme Court and it changes federally, then they still have to fight the Constitution in the Supreme Court again. So it at least prolongs things.
00:49:44
Speaker
And they would have to like if they wanted to ban it federally, they would have to like actually pass legislation, I think. I don't think the Supreme Court could say it's banned federally. I think they can only say that you can ban it. What does what the fuck does that mean, ban? It seems so weird. Exactly. Texas once tried to ban same-sex marriage and accidentally banned all marriage. They have a shotgun and they don't know where they're aiming it. They point wherever someone says the word woke The thing I'm worried about is the supporters of said orange bastard and that they're i mean the last time he got into power, they were emboldened by their perceived
00:50:42
Speaker
ability to be as racist as they want to be. um See that wee gobshite written house and all that there type of thing that went on after all that. um My concern is that they're going to be emboldened now to go out and
00:51:03
Speaker
take shit into their own hands. That is one of the reasons I'm worried about my area because it's like I'm in Florida right now and it's like yeah it's like even if on a legal level I'm not like it's time to outlaw trans people and put you all in prison like it only takes one person to be like I'm gonna make this my problem I see a person and that look it's one of those transgenders and I have this gun. but listen It's not like you don't have form for that shit as a nation.
00:51:33
Speaker
Yeah, like it it's it's honestly terrifying. Yeah, and like i I don't use public restrooms anymore. I have gotten very good at holding it because I had but's not right i had a nightmare experience in a public restroom once that just reminded me of the fact that there are eyes on me. And i'm just like every time I think about using a public restroom, I just see the headline like,
00:51:57
Speaker
transgender predator in women's restroom. Yeah. Well, you know, you have autism, right? You know, you can technically use the disabled toilet, right? I can. Yes. Uh, and like, if I have to, that's what I'm looking for. Which isn't right, but you know, Jesus Christ, don't be, what? Yeah. But it's like, I'm just constantly thinking of like, every time I go out, I'm like, what's the angle here? Like if I get caught in a public space, what can, like, how can they spin this as like, it's terrible it's one of them transgenders.
00:52:26
Speaker
This is horrifying. This is boiling my blood now. um Yeah. Ian? The thing is this time, um it's not just the quote unquote cult, but I'm in the office. so Yeah, there's more of them. It's a whole different like, these are just regular people and I think um People do ridiculous things when they're scared and there's no money in people's pockets and people are flipping out and they're not thinking logically. So this is where we are. h um This country has survived some hellacious fucking things. I think we'll get through this. um Not to be overly positive. I think anybody who's in some kind of risk in a community should be cautious.
00:53:07
Speaker
I have to have hope, you know, don't feel silly being overly cautious. Yeah, I think the country's been through shitty things before. I think we're
Economic Influence on Elections
00:53:14
Speaker
going to be OK. It's just going to be a shit show for a little bit here. um I think some people don't really fully realize what they voted in. I think some people actually what they voted in. um I don't think, this time I don't think all the people that voted for him were doing it out of hate or anything else. I know people that voted for him, like I said, strictly out of fear for their, like their wallet is empty. They don't understand, they didn't do.
00:53:39
Speaker
the research on inflation and what's actually happening and now things actually work. like people I get it too. Some people just don't have time. Everybody's working so many jobs or so many hours and this and that. like I get it. It sucks. i just I think some of the votes came from fear and it doesn't yeah excuse what might happen. I'm just saying I kind of get where some people are coming from.
00:54:02
Speaker
um But again, there are people that are the far, far right, just like there are people on the far, far left, and fucking terrible shit happens on both sides of that. So right now, I think, like I said, anybody that's worried, it would be silly to not prepare just in case, because you don't none of us know what's coming. I don't think any of his followers even know exactly what's coming. so No. um I don't know. That's my take on what I see right now. based I mean, we had like last I checked, there was like 20 million people that just didn't show up to vote. so Yeah. I think what we're seeing is that his base showed up about as much as they did last time, and there just was no energy to elect a Democrat right now.
00:54:44
Speaker
And modern we can analyze the the failures of that campaign or the failures of the electorate all we want. But the fact of the matter is people did not show up. Yeah. And at the end of the day, this is the cards were dealt. This is the way dice rolled. So we got to figure out how to get through it and try to make sure even the people that I said wouldn't vote, they didn't vote for hate. They just, you know, voted out of fear for something else. Maybe we got to look out for those people too. Yep.
00:55:10
Speaker
try to win them over somehow to see what they fucked up or didn't fuck up or whatever. ah look From the outside looking in, it is just astounding.
00:55:22
Speaker
Yeah. There's a lot of a lot of head shaking. Yeah. You know, and people that even aren't wouldn't normally be um politically aware, for want of a better word, or standing today going, what the fuck? yeah it's it's It's maddening. And I'm just worried about, ah from um'm from a selfish point of view, I'm just worried about my friends.
00:55:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's pretty much all. I'm not scared for myself so much as my friends. I'm scared for you all, mate, because, you know. Am I right? If shit was to hit the fan and things were to go as bad as they could go, you don't want to live through that. I've been there. I've done that. It's not good. Living through civil war sucks. That's not going to happen, I don't think.
00:56:22
Speaker
um I hope so. I also hope so. probably Actually, to avoid civil war, the best thing that could have happened is that he fucking won. Because the other side don't really... yeah I mean, they still think they, the last one was stolen. Do you know what I mean? So let's say just, just as a thought experiment, the thing that I thought of today, um, even though I took a break because, you know, I had people text to me and stuff today, so I took a break for a little while. But the thing that occurred to me is that this time he won the popular vote, which he's never done. So it's going to embolden his deepest supporters and into believing that the last one was stolen.
00:57:07
Speaker
yep So it's just reinforcing now. So I don't think, I don't think um that group of people is going anywhere anytime soon, even after he's done. So it's going to be something we contend with for a while. yeah The other issue I have is in my political take, and it's not something, it's not really a political take as much as societal, but it does tie to politics. And it's not something I hear enough people talk about. um This country has forgotten how to punch up.
00:57:37
Speaker
We are so entangled in fighting over the dumbest hurtful shit and kicking down and swinging at each other that we forget that the people at the top are the ones pulling the strings and fucking with us all. That's not just you, my friend. That's the same everywhere. I'm only talking about my country because of the shit we're in in the last 12 years, even. not even butla who know please I know I'm doing the same shit.
00:58:01
Speaker
But people need to wake the fuck up and realize that the rich people are continuing to get rich. The arguments from people that are like, they pay the most taxes is bullshit because they make, they should pay 90% of the taxes if they have 90% of the wealth, you know, fuck them. They're the ones taking money from your pocket twice. There's all kinds of arguments I have for this, but people have forgotten how to unite and take shit back for themselves. And instead they try to take it from each other and I'm fucking tired of it.
00:58:29
Speaker
And that's my, I don't know, my hardcore kid punk rock view on things. I don't, I don't fucking know. I think this country used to punch up a lot and they don't, we don't do it anymore. We would rather argue with each other because everyone keeps taking the fucking bait. Yeah, no, exactly. I think.
00:58:46
Speaker
they The progressives constantly will trip over themselves to do like purity test stuff of like well, I am more more morally pure than you because I believe this, and then none of them do anything about it.
Hope for Societal Progress and Collective Action
00:58:58
Speaker
like I want very badly for this country to make some great strides and do some amazing things. And I want to see things like like healthcare care being available to everyone. And corporations that have limited power compared to what they have now, but- That's my hot button. Don't.
00:59:14
Speaker
oh boy socialized medicine. But like, so I want all of these things for this country. And I don't think we are going to get them until we learn to roll up our sleeves and fight together to get them. Like the working class needs to be inspired with a message of like, we can take this power back for ourselves. And I, I don't see the Democrats doing it right now. And I don't see anyone else who is in a position to give it to them. So yeah, that's the problem with two party politics. It's the same problem in in the UK.
00:59:45
Speaker
Mm-hmm, but yeah, that's my little soapbox thing punch fucking up kids eat the goddamn rich. They don't need to have that much I get the feeling Moscow tastes better as fuck probably Yeah, but dude seriously you could be you could be super rich I don't get I don't i'm not bitter about that but you don't need to have so much money You're not gonna fucking spend it in your lifetime like fuck off. No, I There's people that can't like, however you want to phrase it, there's people, there's veterans, whatever your fucking flavor of homelessness is, for example, there's people that are not eating tonight. And this motherfucker is just hoarding money like a fucking dragon. There's children in your country whose parents can't afford medicine that would save their fucking lives. That is disgusting. Yep. And Elon Musk could wipe out homelessness and on his own and stay stupid rich.
01:00:35
Speaker
But instead he he gave a bunch of money to people to vote for Trump because that way he'll get tax breaks. Or Jeff Bezos. Or Bezos. Bill Gates. What, that other fucker? Yeah. Buffett. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Or whatever. Yeah. um and But anyway, that's that's enough of me hating on it. I'll let you guys talk some more, but that's enough of me hating on the rich.
01:00:58
Speaker
it's ah
01:01:01
Speaker
It's infuriating. Yeah. yeah really Like I said, it's because they're not going to fucking, the people at the top are not
Conclusion: Resilience and Community Support
01:01:08
Speaker
coming to help us. So. Nope. Indeed. and On that happy note. Are we going to do the final question? Yes, we should do the final question. This should be fun.
01:01:18
Speaker
So, I asked you, have you actually listened to the show Sky? I have. I've listened to a couple of episodes. Good. I'm sorry. Shut up. I apologize for Stewart's behavior. Fuck you.
01:01:33
Speaker
ah You know that we only have two questions, the first one and the last one. Thanks for coming on this week. I'm so happy to be here. It has been really fun. I've absolutely loved meeting you. And the next time I'm in Florida, I want to meet you and we'll have a drink. Yeah, absolutely. So
01:02:00
Speaker
what's the manliest thing you've done this week? I have been thinking of an answer for that because I have i've listened a bit. I think if I had to pick one to fit the theme of what we've just been talking about, last night was a really hard night for a lot of people. And i there was someone close to me who really needed someone to be there, ah just to be their rock. And I was there for them. And they vented to me and I comforted them.
01:02:27
Speaker
And and love yeah, I gave them the reassurance they needed from the that more collected perspective. ah That's a perfect answer. Definitely. That definitely speaks to my ah protective instincts that are kind of firing an overdrive lately. Yeah. That's the part of masculinity I'm not looking to get rid of. I care about the people around me and I will protect them.
01:02:53
Speaker
Nice. Awesome. Skye, thanks for coming. Thanks for being so open. hoping to Really, really just blunt and fucking awesome conversation and asked some questions that he's been wanting to ask. yeah Um, I think it's awesome. So yeah, thanks again. Yeah, absolutely. Wonderful time. I love you both. Goodbye everybody. Thank you. Have a great week everyone and, uh, drink up. Yeah.