Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Exhausted Sparrows Unite. I am your host, Krista Jones, with my co-host, Chantal Schaefer, and we're going to do what we always do. We're going to embrace the chaos, and this time the crumbs and the constant low level of stress that makes us want to scream into our pillow at 4.17 p.m.
Speaker: This week, you ask. ah It's the PTA Bake Sale. Yep. That seemingly innocent signup sheet that is anything but innocent. It is like a battleground of guilt, performance, mental overload, you name it. Chantel and I have felt it. We're going to break it down today. Like it's a survival documentary, Chantel.
Speaker: I hope you're ready for this because if you've ever snap found yourself baking at 1147 at night while you're rage crying into your mixing bowl, you not only deserve a medal, you deserve the muffin that you just made and you deserve like a little bit of grace and you deserve to know that both Chantel and i as we were trying to get this podcast ready for the week, we just laughed and laughed and we were like the stories we have about the PTA bake sales.
Speaker: Welcome Chantel Schaefer. Hello, Krista Jones. Hello. I hope that you've rolled your sleeves up and you're ready to get messy. I am ready. It seemed like a good idea at the time. How many times have you said that to yourself about, I don't know, the million projects in your life?
Speaker: All the time. and How many times have you said that about the PTA bake sale? I'm not going to lie. I have never signed up for the PTA bake sale. You know what? I don't know if our PTA does bake sales. so Well, I don't know, Chantel, if this conversation is for you then, because I signed up for every PTA big sale there was because I felt it was my duty.
Speaker: You're a better mom than I. I don't know if it made me a better mom because then I would start with this, you know, one Pinterest recipe, you know what it should look like and then what it really looks like. And I would start there and at 1147 at night, that's that's why I'm saying 1147 at night, i would it would be a it would just be a disaster. It would be like had to start from scratch all over again.
Speaker: The mermaid, remember my scary mermaid? Doesn't look like mermaid all. I don't remember the
Speaker: It's the PTA bake sale and it is the guilt that some of us feel, whether it's the actual PTA bake sale or the other million things that are going on in our kid's life. It is the guilt that we feel that we have to be perfect in that.
Speaker: Yeah. And we've talked about being perfect and everything else, but don't really hone in on moms this week and the perfection that we feel that we have to have as a mom.
Speaker: It's strenuous. And I feel, you know, going back to, we say this probably in every episode, social media is a is a killer of mom confidence in my opinion. i agree. I mean, I am constantly looking at what other moms are doing and they're at the baseball field looking all beautiful and then they're here and there. And and I'm like, I can barely roll myself out of bed on a Sunday morning and make breakfast.
Speaker: And it's defeating. It can be defeating. Yeah. For me, it's seeing these moms that are out there in public doing a million things and working as many hours as we are. And then like having like a clean house.
Speaker: Yeah. What is that? Do you have somebody that cleans your house? That's what I want to know. And I think that's the the the whole thing with this mom guilt, right? Like it sounds like a great idea at the time, whatever that is for you.
Speaker: For Chantel, it is not making homemade meals, homemade little cookies at the bake sale. But it's a million other things. It's field day. It's, you know, funky hair day. And the outfits you're going to put them in in Halloween. The people that, you know, make the costumes. oh my gosh. See, now that's me. That is you. That's me. That is not me.
Speaker: But that is you. And you're very artistic. So... I wouldn't think in your case, you never look at the project when it's done and say, that's not what I wanted. But I would think in your case, it's like, oh my gosh, the time that I'm really putting into this. Sometimes I get through and I'm like, wow, that was a lot of time and it's not what it was supposed to be.
Speaker: And why do we do that to ourself? Because partially social media, like you said, we talk about it in so many podcasts. yeah Social media is good to a certain extent, but there are really a lot of negative things about it because we are people. We are human.
Speaker: We are always comparing ourselves. No matter how confident you are, a lot of that stuff when you're looking at it, it's hard not to look at what other people are doing and see where you rank amongst that, right?
Speaker: Yeah. And it's so funny because like one of my life lessons to my kids is you're not going to be perfect at everything. You're not going to be good at everything. And here I am comparing myself to everything every other mom is doing saying I'm not good enough. Right. Because I don't think we live what we preach and our kids and yours are getting older.
Speaker: Mine are, you know, smart now. Mine are like, okay, mom. Okay. Okay. I'm like, so don't worry when she called you a snot bucket because... And they're like, uh-huh. Yeah, well, you're you're falling apart because somebody wrote you an email that they didn't like the brownies this week. I'm like, oh, okay.
Speaker: But yeah, you know They get older and they get wise and they know we're doing it. And for a lot of us... um I think this is our way to show love. And the prettier it looks, the more homemade it is, the more time that we put into it so that our child can stand apart at school functions.
Speaker: That is a ah show of love. Like we confuse that, that it's got to be beautiful, right? You know, and especially for working moms, which we're going to get into, our presence can't be there. Right.
Speaker: So we're going to go over the top to compensate for that because, you know, we have this weird notion that the two need to coexist together when our children are just happy that you made the fake and bake cookies from Sam's Club.
Speaker: Are you calling me out? I didn't say anything. I was looking at you, but we don't have cameras in the room. And I'm just saying, I don't want to fake a fake and bake cookie ever. her I want a real cookie from Chantel Schaefer.
Speaker: I love to bake real cookies, but when I got a bake for 35 third graders, it is a four and a half pound bucket of chocolate chip cookie dough straight from Sam's. Absolutely. I got it. I got to know my limits.
Speaker: That is a great way. And we're going to talk about that too, because for those of us that are stuck in ruts, we need to be able to get out of ruts. Like that's the whole thing. And then there's those of us that not only bake for the bake sale, but we say yes to the bake sale.
Speaker: And we say yes to the field day. And we say yes to the orchestra, you know, concert and to the zoo trip and to all of this stuff, because we feel that we have to do that as well. It's a mom guilt thing, whether you're working mom or you're a stay at home mom, there is this guilt that comes along with it, that your presence is required in order to show that you care.
Speaker: hmm. And for me, some of that is because my mom was a stay at home mom. Was your mom, did she stay at home? She stayed at home until I want to say we were in middle school. Okay. um You know, she babysat, but she was able to do those trips and things in our younger years. Right.
Speaker: And I think, you know, it was different. you know, 20, 30 years ago, I think that you could live on a one income household. I don't think for most people, that's a reality anymore. You have both people in the house working. So, you know, my mom was doing all those things. So if I take the logic out of it, I mean, my mom, you know, she had all day, so she could take two hours. But if I take that logic out of it, which I always do, because I have to compare myself to my mom,
Speaker: You know, I'm always like, I'm falling short as, as a parent. I'm not at everything. um I'm not doing it all well. You know, that whole juggling that we talk about in almost every podcast.
Speaker: Yeah. I'm right there with you. And for me, it was less about the, it for me, it's less about the being there. It's the, it's like the house cleaning. And like, I always feel like I'm, I'm falling short in that area where my mom would shine.
Speaker: Right. My mom did too. My mom was able to keep a really clean house and do stuff with us. But again, again, there wasn't a 40 hour, 50 hour work week on top of all that. And I think like a lot of us are yes, you know, saying yes to doing all of these things when really there's 24 hours in a day and you should sleep six to eight of them.
Speaker: I think that comes from guilt. I think that's why we say yes. I don't think it's a desire. i definitely do not desire to want to make homemade chocolate chip, dark sea salt cookies.
Speaker: Right? Can you? But i do Yes. And I'll bring you some. Yes. My kids are no longer in school for anyone that is listening wherever you are listening to this podcast. Thank you.
Speaker: i all my children are out of school now in college and doing their own thing. We call them the Redhead Nation, three redhead girls, Chantel's kids still in school. But like, it's really interesting to watch how that that just doesn't ever end. Like I have a child about to get married and I'm like, uh-oh.
Speaker: There's a lot work that goes into that. You know, she's like, let's make our own benches for people to sit on. I'm like, I'm like, please just stop. Oh, you're woodworking now. gosh. I can barely make the mermaid cake without making a bunch of two-year-olds cry. i feel like you should reprise the mermaid cake but um for like the shower or don't know.
Speaker: I am going to find the mermaid cake. We are eventually going to start filming this guy. So you can really see what we look like as we're doing this. Cause we just crack up the whole time. It's great facial expressions, but I am going to get you guys a picture of the mermaid cake. If it kills me, it was the most awful thing I've ever done. And it is because I had this desire to have every single child because I always believed that too.
Speaker: Every kid was always invited to my kids' birthday parties because of my empathy. Oh, so you're, my kids are summer birthdays. Oh. So I try to invite nobody. Oh no. We do like the family and you can invite a friend or friend. Fantastic. And then we do like, hey, let's go to Splashdown. Invite a friend to Splashdown. Yeah.
Speaker: Mine from my empathy podcast that Chantel and I have done, you know, before, how is Jimmy going to feel if he's not invited? It doesn't matter that he's a boy. So then I was, you know, baking for 35 kids. And the thing is, we get burnt out really, really quick by doing all of that because there's a lot of emotional labor that is involved with us saying yes to the perfectionism of being a ah ah good mom.
Speaker: Right? Because there is this weird role that we can't get out of, of what's normalized for being a mom. It's still like we're living in the 1940s and the fifties and the sixties when they didn't work. Like, right.
Speaker: Like, it's like, all right, these are all the things that moms did back then because they really, they were mostly home taking care of the house. Like now that I'm working, just like my male counterpart, like we can't revise that role a little bit.
Speaker: It's amazing how a lot of society still is like, oh no, now not only are you going to work, but you're still going to do all the things that you were doing before that when you had to tend to the house. Yeah. I i sent this, um, I sent this to Krista yesterday.
Speaker: i so I saw this on Facebook. um yeah And it said, just wondering how moms are supposed to work nine to five, drop the kids off at school at 8 a.m., pick them up by 3 p.m., stay on top of school activities, meal prep, cook dinner, keep the house clean, do the laundry, run the kids to extracurricular activities, climb the corporate ladder, have sick oh save sick days for when the kids are sick, be a good friend, daughter, and partner, all while trying to take care of their own body and mental health.
Speaker: Boom. You can't do it. You can't. You cannot do it. We say it in almost every episode that something somewhere is going to give.
Speaker: And you know, Chantal, you're right. Like there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a tub of chocolate chip cookies from Sam's Club and baking that. not saying yes to everything. There's 30 kids in your child's class. There's a lot of moms.
Speaker: There's a lot of dads. There's a lot of caregivers that can step up and do a lot of these things. So I think the biggest thing is you got to break this, you know, guilt that by saying, no, you're a bad parent.
Speaker: You're a bad mom. But like, ah the stress of that is, is, is real, right? There's a lot of, if I don't show up, you know, my kid's going to have resentment. Like there's a lot of things that have just been put into our heads over the years that, that we're afraid of, you know, for not at everything, you know, my kid's going to, going to be upset.
Speaker: And when we get to June, I just started saying to my kids, I am going to miss something you're doing this month. Please do not be mad at me. I'm going to miss either the orchestra concert or the field day or the crazy hair day or the wear green all day. I'm going to forget to bake somebody cupcakes because it is so much in order. Like you're, I'm watching you in it. It's June.
Speaker: Yeah, it's it's rough. um I will say that the advent of technology has made some of that easier. And you didn't have this when your kids were little, but like we get a ah text or an email or whatever that says, you know, this week is spirit week and these are the days. And I post it and I tell my kids, you are responsible. If you want to participate, pick it out now.
Speaker: And it's just one less thing off of my plate. I've had to start delegating in those areas so that they don't miss it. And we've talked about delegating. That's important. Every single yes that you end up saying or committing to is a no somewhere else.
Speaker: So you have to make your yeses count. Otherwise, you're really missing some things that you really need to prioritize, which is really, really important. And, you know, we're talking about this working mom culture, like this whole guilt thing that we have, right?
Speaker: um Because we are trying to have like this dual personality, right? We're trying to be a present parent and an exceptionally amazing professional.
Speaker: So in both of those worlds, with which are both full-time jobs, full-time jobs, we're trying to excel at a hundred percent.
Speaker: And it's unsustainable. It isn't. it You can't do it. You can't perform good in all arenas 80 hours a day. Right. So I don't know.
Speaker: And it it it was hard for me. Like I was getting to the point where, you know, carry here at work, like ah my coworkers were worried about a deadline and I was worried that, you know, i didn't make the gluten free brownie.
Speaker: And then i was stressing out about that and I'm like, people need me here. Like I made the brownies, pretty sure they're gluten-free, move on. You know, I was getting really tangled in two worlds so then I wasn't concentrating on anything fully.
Speaker: which is a big deal. And, you know, the bake sale, I think, isn't just about the school ah event either. It's also about pressure as a working mom, if you are one, as to what do you take off for and how much can you take off for? it And like you just read, like saving your sick days for your children.
Speaker: you know, then you have no sick days for you. Every single episode, we say self-care is the most important thing. And you're burning out all of these days you have on everything else.
Speaker: And then there's nothing when you really need it. So then what? Yeah, I mean, I've always heard, you know, you should take a mental health day. You should take I have never been capable of taking a mental health day because I was saving all my sick time. And during COVID, it was awful because if your kid got a sniffle, you could not go to work. They could not go to school.
Speaker: I burned through so many hours of sick time. And then when somebody was really sick, I was i was going unpaid. what we we We talked about that. we you know We were out on the rail trails during that time. And I remember you were really, really struggling. And it's you know the one thing here in the charity world. Charities, you know in most cases, don't necessarily pay their staff as well as their staff should be paid because staff in the charity world have like four jobs, not one.
Speaker: You know, but then you, you need to realize those type of things and, and, and try to just be lax so that you can come and go and you don't take advantage of it. And you know what I mean? And employees really won't take advantage of that.
Speaker: They just, to, to free them up so they have a little bit less guilt and pressure on them so that they're able to kind of juggle things that they need to juggle. Like, you know, that's kind of right?
Speaker: And, you know, overachieving women, we we already know this. They experience higher rates of burnout because, you know, there's a lot less emotional support, I think, for them because we're just told, oh, suck it up, suck it up.
Speaker: Do it. Don't be a girl. Like, my gosh, if I hear that one more time. I feel like I'm like, what does that mean? Is that supposed to be interrogatory? Like, are you thinking I'm goingnna cry because I'm under pressure?
Speaker: i feel like employers think you should just shut off your life outside of the building. Like that doesn't exist while you're in these walls. and And that's not how life goes. You don't shut off being a mom.
Speaker: You just have to be able to have a healthy balance. And when you're at work, you want to be able to concentrate on your work and not worry. You did the best you can for the kids. You put the Sam's cupcakes out. You got them the Walmart Halloween costume.
Speaker: Like you did what you could for your kids. Your kids have on what they need. They've got the essentials. You know what I'm saying? And I feel like our kids 99% of the time don't care. Well, and I think that's letting go of the gold star.
Speaker: Yeah. Right? Like 99% of the time, you know, of course they want you to be at, you know, functions and things that you can be at too. But do you think your child cares as much, you know, what that cookie looks like?
Speaker: How proud are they just to walk in? You know, I've got some cookies. Or how proud are they to dress however, that you know, they want to dress for their Halloween costume or whatever they're doing. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're right. Your child is not thinking about this as much as you are as a mom.
Speaker: Yeah. this PTA bake sale, you know, has just completely sent you into a tizzy. Krista Jones, not Chantel Shaver, but Krista Jones. And honestly, i don't even try for the Halloween costume. I'm like, I'm out.
Speaker: If I knew you, i would have been like, here's 50 bucks. Can you make me like some really cute elf hat? I don't know. I could. But the success of everything, I think, Right?
Speaker: To be successful as a mom. I don't think it's in the cookies. I think it's in the way that you are dividing your time and being healthy with it.
Speaker: And the way that you are figuring out your emotional support. They need you there, you know, to hear about their ups and downs in the day, whether that's at the dinner table when you get home because you work long days or whether on the weekends you're out gardening with them and you're chatting with them. like Like, those are the moments that are important.
Speaker: Knowing what's going on in your kid's life and staying in tune and stuff, it's really, it's not the cookies. Right? No. Yeah. They're just happy for the sugar. And then saying no, like that's one of the things that we have to do. We have had episodes where, you know, you need to be able to say no.
Speaker: That is something that you're going to have to do in some cases. You know, I'm sorry, you know, to my third grade teacher, but you know, I just, i can't make the cookies this week. they really are moving on to the next person.
Speaker: They are really not digesting that. And then like talking about you to all the other teachers, they, they honestly have moved on to the next person. There's plenty of people out there that can do this. Yeah.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. I try to, I try to limit the amount of signups. I, I i take part in you know, and the same thing with, with school activities. I can't be there every week, but I make time to be there,
Speaker: for the more important situations. Like my kid's school does family Friday once a quarter and they invite family members in to be a part of the classroom with the kids for 45 minutes, an hour.
Speaker: And I make sure that I am there every Friday because that to me is important. But I don't go to some of the more random things. Field day.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: That was, you know, that's my area of saying no, is picking and choosing what I can and can't be at. Well, I mean, i think you have to, but 85% of moms out there, you know, say that they feel they have to be this super mom.
Speaker: And let's talk about the moms that are at home. I think that that's really important to talk about too, right? um They hear all the time things like, oh, you're so lucky to be able to stay home. But I'm telling you, when I was home, I wasn't home for very long, but I was home for a few years.
Speaker: I said, you know, to a girlfriend the other day, i'm like, my house was still a mess. Like, I don't know what I did all day, but right. Like I was trying to keep the kids entertained, which is a full-time plus job. And there were all these other activities.
Speaker: So I think too, that that is a really important thing to talk about. Cause you know, there's always these fights between, you know, who has it rougher, a working mom or a stay at home mom. And I think both jobs are completely different and yet the same.
Speaker: And I think both jobs are completely hard. They're very hard. Yeah. I am. So when I was pregnant with Nora, I went through this. I don't want to say depression, but I got very, very upset that I was going to have to go back to work.
Speaker: And I actually started blogging, hoping that I would generate enough popularity that I could start making an income on blogging. It was called the diary of a stay at ah a diary of a wannabe stay at home mom.
Speaker: I think that's brilliant. I didn't get very far because once once she came, I didn't have time to blog anymore. And then I went back to work. And you were like, ah now I'm done.
Speaker: Now I'm done. You know, and then it all just, you know, all of this ends up spilling into every other area of our life, right? You're on the clock 24 seven.
Speaker: It hits when you get home. Then we talk about this too all the time. You know, like I'm like to my husband, why don't you make the mermaid cake? And let's be honest, he actually helped with that. That was bad.
Speaker: But, um you know, there's a lot that falls on you and that also can lead to you feeling alone. But you're not alone. And I think it's really important for moms, stay-at-home moms, working moms, to find a network of friends.
Speaker: And it's a hard thing to do. Right. But it is an important thing to do because really we get it. We just get it for each other. It's like this whole grieving process. You just want some other mom that is in the trenches of whatever you're going on right now in life.
Speaker: You want them to be able to go, I get it. Or not even say, I get it. You just know they get it. Cause you know, there's throw up on her shirt and you know, she's got the cupcakes in her hand trying to get them to bake sale on time. I keep using the poor bake sale cause those things were traumatizing for me. And you know you know what I mean? And like, you're just looking at her and it's like, you share this look and there is a solidarity in it.
Speaker: Whether you're working or you're not working, like we're all going through it together. And I think that's important. It's important because when you are feeling defeated, a lot of times you retreat, right?
Speaker: And the worst thing you can do is isolate. You really need to be around people, even though you all the time say to me, I'm an introvert. I'm an introvert. I get it.
Speaker: And you know, that's, that's by design, but you know, there are times that you really have to like sit back and you have to say, I'm getting in a funky place. I have to be with other moms that, you know, feel the need to make the double chocolate, dark sea salt cookie for the bake sale.
Speaker: You know, it's funny, i as I've spent more time with more moms, because for a while I was very anti-other moms, just the introvert in me, but I've spent more time with more moms, and even the ones that on the outside are picture perfect, always hair done, always looking great, always showing up, they are frazzled too.
Speaker: And that that was a good feeling for me. And i don't not that they were frazzled, but that... we could bond and share in that together. Absolutely. And that's an outer appearance. We talk about that too.
Speaker: We really don't know what's going on in anybody else's life. You know, there are women that good for you that you're looking like you have it all together, but all, but you know, honestly dangerous. This is who I am. And when I don't have it all together, you guys can normally tell here.
Speaker: You can normally tell. And I'm pretty honest about it, you know. And, you know, we should embrace that. There's no reason to try to, you know, ah get some eye eyeliner on and, you know, some lipstick and, you know.
Speaker: Yeah, it might make you feel a little better. But I think what I'm trying to say with that is you also don't have to hide behind that, you know, because the people that are going to judge you for that are not people you're going to want to hang out anyways.
Speaker: It's just a crazy thing. it's It's the guilt in all of us moms, whether you're staying at home or you're working, your job is crazy hard. You are in charge of these little human beings. So,
Speaker: Here's to every mom that is pulling off the impossible. No matter whether your impossible is a gold star or a silver star, it's all impossible when there are only 24 hours in the day and you're doing 80 hours worth of stuff.
Speaker: I want you to know that it is enough. So say no and don't have guilt in it or say yes and don't have guilt in it. Once you say yes and you make those cupcakes, be proud of whatever they look like.
Speaker: Go to the store bought cupcakes because the truth is we shouldn't need to impress anyone else but our kids. And our kids are not impressed by the materialistic things.
Speaker: Our kids are impressed when we say, Mom, i have something to tell you. Mom, I got a problem at school. Mom, I'm not feeling good. Can you come and pick me up? Mom, can you make me chicken noodle soup?
Speaker: Those are the important things the cupcakes in this world are not. My friend, you are enough. So please be good to yourself and each other.
