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S07E13: The 2025-26 SBA Presidents — with Mehrin Ali '26 and Isabel Ballester '26
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This year's SBA presidents, Mehrin Ali '26 and Isabel Ballester '26, join Dean Bond for a roundtable conversation about their various law school experiences.
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The Power of Attorney is produced by Rutgers Law School. With two locations minutes from Philadelphia and New York City, Rutgers Law offers the prestige and reputation of a large, nationally known university combined with a personal, small campus experience. Learn more by visiting law.rutgers.edu.
Executive Producer: Shanida Carter
Series Producer & Editor: Nate Nakao
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Transcript
00:00:09
Speaker
You're listening to the award-winning podcast from Rutgers Law School, The Power of Attorney. I'm your host and Dean of the Law School, Joanna Bond.
00:00:23
Speaker
Today's episode is an annual fan favorite. I'm joined by Rutgers Law Student Bar Association presidents in Camden and Newark. We're gonna have a great conversation about getting to law school and what the experience is like as a student and as a leader.
00:00:40
Speaker
I'm joined by Isabel Ballister and Meherine Ali. Isabel Ballister is a 3L at Rutgers Camden. Isabel is a first generation student and is a proud Philadelphia native and sports fan.
00:00:55
Speaker
After graduating from Davidson College, Isabel worked as the Special Assistant to the Chief of Staff at the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office. She progressed to the role of paralegal for the DA's Conviction Integrity and Special Investigations Unit, where she reviewed wrongful conviction claims. Later, Isabel worked as a program coordinator with the Youth Sentencing and Reentry Project, strategically supporting children charged as adults at all phases of incarceration.
00:01:23
Speaker
She is now a social justice scholar at Rutgers Law School, and we're very lucky to have her, volunteering on several pro bono projects. Mehreen Ali is a first-generation law student and 3L in Newark. She's a Long Island native and graduate of New York University.
00:01:42
Speaker
Mehreen was a 1L summer associate at McCarter and English, where she participated in a dual internship program with Becton, Dickinson, and Company. During her 2L summer, she worked at the Office of the New Jersey Public Defender, where she made over 15 court appearances through the Office of Law Guardian, providing a legal representation to children in child welfare cases.
00:02:05
Speaker
Next year, she'll be clerking for the Honorable Presiding Judge Hany Mala in the Appellate Division in Trenton. During her time at Rutgers, she founded and served as the president of the South Asian Law Students Association. She is also the administrative editor of the International Law and Human Rights Journal.
00:02:25
Speaker
Thank you both for joining me today. Thanks, Dean Bond. you. Thank you, Dean Bond. It's such a pleasure to have worked with both of you in your capacity as student leaders. I feel extraordinarily lucky that we have you as part of our community.
00:02:41
Speaker
ah So one of the questions we always start out with is what is your origin story? So let's start with you, Isabel, and then we'll move to Meherin.
00:02:52
Speaker
Yeah. So um in college, so I actually started college pre-med. um I was like, I'm going doctor. i'm gonna be the first doctor in my family. And then I took bio 101 and I was like, actually, this is not it. um right I don't like the sight of blood. i can't do it. I don't know what I was thinking. um But the passion to assist others and to really be in a profession where I could support people and use my privilege um As, you know, a very educated person to help other people was really important to me. So I my senior year of college, I decided I'm going to go to law school, but I was really burnt out. So I um took some time off. And um one of actually one of the.
00:03:34
Speaker
Most critical pieces of advice that I got between my senior year and now is before you go to law school, like know what lawyers do, um because it's vast. And also, you know, you might have this idea in your head of what it is and it doesn't actually match up to that. So it's a big investment. Make sure you know what you're getting into. um So I did that. I went and I worked for the for the Philly District Attorney's Office for Larry Krasner. for a couple years. um Super formative work, loved it. And then the pandemic hit and I was like, actually, law school is not for me. I'm tired. The world is ending.
00:04:07
Speaker
I'm going to just figure it out. And then I had a great mentor in that office in the special investigations unit. And he was like, listen, you got to do it. You got it. You have the drive. You have the passion. You have the mindset. Please do this. I'll support you. I'll help you. And he did. And here we are. um That was 2020. So six years ago, and I'm about to graduate. So shout out to big mentors to people looking out for you. um And yeah, I'm really excited to get to, you know, join this profession.
00:04:37
Speaker
That is that's a great story, Isabel. and And truly, I mean, what a difference a good mentor can make, right? And yeah in terms of encouraging you at just the right moment. That's wonderful.
00:04:48
Speaker
Okay, May Harin. Yeah, thank you so much, Isabel, for sharing that inspiring story. So my name is Mehreen. Like Dean Bon had mentioned, I'm born and raised on Long Island, New York. I'm a proud daughter of Bangladeshi immigrants. My parents immigrated to New York in the 80s, where they raised their four kids. I'm the youngest of four, so that was spoiled my whole life.
00:05:07
Speaker
um But just a little bit about me, i and have always wanted to be a zealous advocate and I always knew law school was the ultimate goal for me. i did want to go straight through from undergrad to law school, though during my senior year of college, my father had liver cancer and it became really bad really fast.
00:05:28
Speaker
He actually ended up getting a liver and kidney transplant ah during my senior year. So there was a lot happening and In the midst of all that, I wasn't able to kind of go straight through like I had planned. So I had taken a year off. I was his caretaker because when do you survive cancer, when you have two transplants, you need a lot of support as much as possible. So I kind of took on that emotional and physical caretaking responsibilities. But then I was still able to, of course, go to law school. and be at Rutgers here.
00:05:57
Speaker
um a little fun fact about me, I love concerts, I love rap music, I love R&B and hip hop. I've seen Beyonce live five times, so she's definitely my favorite, my favorite artist. Iconic. Yes, I want to keep seeing her. great But yeah, that's a little bit about me.
00:06:13
Speaker
That's great. That's great. I hope your dad is better. Is he yeah better at helping Yes, yes, much better. I'm so glad. Okay, so my next question, you both have already sort of answered, but I'm goingnna ask it anyway, and you can add to the answer.
00:06:27
Speaker
What made you go to law school and to come to Rutgers Law specifically?
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah, so um similar to Mejareen, I am a daughter of, well, I'm actually a granddaughter of immigrants. um My grandparents, my abuelos came here from the Dominican Republic. um And my abuelita always wanted to be an attorney. And so um and she would have been a really good one. ah So I think it's such an honor to carry on her legacy in that way and to bring her with me with you know, in every step that I get to take, I get to bring her with me knowing that she would have to be doing the same thing. Rutgers specifically is two things. um Dean Matt Sala. I remember i I came to an information session and I was blown away by him, his his candor, his transparency, um his he shared, you know, vulnerably some of his experiences about being in the application process and being in law school. And um one of the questions that I always asked on tours when I was touring was, you know how does
00:07:32
Speaker
how do your classes or how do the professors here, how does the school grapple with the racist history of the law? And how does that show up in our legal classrooms and in our, in the 1L curriculum? You know, are we talking about redlining? Are we talking about critical race theory? um Just because that was a huge part of why I wanted to go to law school. And I also didn't want to be at an institution where we weren't going to discuss those things because that's not the type of law that I wanted to learn. So yeah,
00:08:00
Speaker
Dean Sala's answer was so on point and so um meaningful to me that he answered it so honestly and openly. And um that was it. I was like, if I don't care where else I get in, I'm going to go to Rutgers. It's going to happen. And thankfully, you know, I got I still have the voicemail from Matt today. I'll forever remember the parking lot. I was sitting in crying, listening to that voicemail. um And I will say the last thing I'll say about this is that um if I.
00:08:30
Speaker
were to do the law school process over again, which thank God I don't have to ever do that. um But if I had to, for some reason, I would still pick Rutgers. Going back, i I really feel very, very lucky that when people ask me, you know, when, you know, there's like the camaraderie or commisery about ach law school, it was so horrible. like yes, there are moments. But to feel like, wow, no, I actually had a really great law school experience. And that is because Rutgers is so,
00:08:57
Speaker
like it is what it is. Like, I just, I feel really, really lucky that that's part of my story. That's fantastic. I'm so happy to hear that. And and not at all surprised that Dean Zala played a role in both recruiting you and and retaining you through the years. So, no, he's he's a gem. We're very lucky to have him too.
00:09:16
Speaker
Okay, Meharin. Yeah, also funny, Isabel. I feel like we all have a voicemail from Dean Sala. Yes, it's that human touch. You know, he reaches out to every accepted student. it's It's extraordinary. I don't think most admissions deans do that. Oh, it's not at all. Very, yeah very lucky.
00:09:35
Speaker
Yeah. But just to go off of that, I think kind of a lot of similar points, knowing that my parents had taken the journey to immigrate from Bangladesh to New York, you know, that's no small feat. And one of their main kind of reasons for that was to give us a better life, specifically education wise. And that's something that is really important.
00:09:54
Speaker
a value and foundation for my family. both you know Me and my siblings are very well educated. my you know Some of my siblings are physicians and nurses and PhD candidates. So um I did wanna get you know on higher education and I always knew I wanted to be a lawyer, I wanted to be an advocate. I grew up watching shows. like you know, law and order, and I always saw myself just like on my feet in a courtroom.
00:10:17
Speaker
And that's always just been the goal for me. And I, you know, I really don't take the privilege of having such a higher education, that level of education for granted at all. And as far as just specifically Rutgers, of course, Dean Sahl is amazing. But in addition to that, um Growing up on Long Island, I was I stuck out a lot. I was one of the only POCs in the room constantly. And then additionally, i went to a PWI, which that was also the same experience for me. I wanted my last experience. This going be my last experience being a student. My last time to at least be in a classroom where there's people that look like me that, i you know, I could look around and see people that had similar walks of life with me. ah They don't have to be specifically South Asian, of course, but just similarly diverse-minded individuals. And that's exactly what Rutgers is. And that's how kind of it was marketed to me. And when I came to Rutgers, that's exactly what I found. So I'm i'm so glad i made the best decision. In addition, just knowing the history of Professor Kanhoye, the People's Electric Law School, like all this incredible rich history that Rutgers Law School has, has really added to that experience and added to me choosing Rutgers. So really just I value diversity so much. And i love how much Rutgers values diversity.
00:11:28
Speaker
That is fantastic. and And that's one area where I'm very proud to say I think we don't disappoint. you know this We have this incredibly rich, diverse student body and and truly extraordinary leaders like both of you. and And I couldn't ask for a better student body. It's just really ah an extraordinary collection of people. So I'm glad to hear that both of you have had a good experience, that it lived up to expectations and that you would do it all over again. Not that you need to. Exactly. exactly um So I'm going to ask a question, and this is for both of you.
00:12:04
Speaker
um and feel free to elaborate on this, Dean Bond. I know that. maybe 1L year is not as not two years ago for you as it was for us. um That's a very polite way of putting that. I'm not calling you bold. I didn't mean to say that. No, but what surprised you about 1L year? um And you can like and in any capacity, but you know academically, socially, spiritually, what what maybe some expectations that you had coming into 1L year that surprised you and that can be good bad?
00:12:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's it's a great question. um One thing that I think surprised me in 1L year specifically was legal writing. And I i considered myself a very good writer. you know I sort of breezed through college, didn't have to work that hard, developed what I thought was really good writing skills. And then I got into one lll legal writing. And as you both know, it's a totally different animal, right? So I had to accept that I had a lot to learn and ah And that was surprising. um
00:13:06
Speaker
But i I think that I was open to that that new way of thinking about the law and new way of of approaching writing. And so I adapted pretty quickly. but But that is one thing that definitely surprised me in in my 1L year.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good one. I didn't think of that, but absolutely. Yeah, especially for those of us who have like a creative writing background or who like to you know we we're taught to embellish, we're taught to use a lot of adjectives, we're taught to really set the scene. you know It's like the red ink on our first memos about this is not necessary.
00:13:43
Speaker
you know Mix that, enough of this, stop yapping, all of that. right Focus on IRAC. How about you, Mary? Yeah, just going off of that, of course, legal writing was definitely an adjustment for everybody. I do remember vividly during orientation, um what was expressed to us by Dean of Students and you know other faculty members was that your law school, your legal network and legal career starts today. And that's something I i understood. But then i didn't realize how intimate and close knit our law school was. Like my undergrad institution at NYU was gigantic. You could take a class and you would never see those people again, the you know, the rest of the focus rest of the four years. Whereas in Rutgers, you take a class and there's only what, 800, 850 students at the New York campus. So it's very small. We all get to know each other very well, which I love. And I think um
00:14:34
Speaker
It's almost kind of like a high school vibe, which is so interesting and so different from my undergraduate experience. But i think overall, just our legal career really did start the first day of 1L because these you know New Jersey is a small legal network and we're all going into that. you know Isabel and I were graduating um and we're just joining that network and I love that though.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Looking back, what would you tell your first year self about surviving and thriving in law school? Isabel, you want to go first? Oh, man, actually might kick it to Dean Bond first. I don't know. There's so many things. Yeah, I'll take a stab at it.
00:15:12
Speaker
I think I would tell my one else self, you got this. You know, I like a lot of people. I had imposter syndrome. I did not think that I belonged in law school. I didn't come from a family of lawyers. I just I struggled with this sort of self-conception of myself as a lawyer. And It was really ah a clinical experience that I had. So this was not one all year, but ah but it was a meaningful experience in clinic where I was representing a victim of domestic violence. um And i i was in a criminal trial with a prosecutor. And, and you know, I was sort of, I prepared all the elements of of the case and and the prosecutor at some point leaned over and said, do you think I covered it? And I said, no, actually, I think you need to talk about this some more. And and it turned out that was the thing that the judge seized on and we lost the case. But but for me, it was sort of this this moment where I thought, okay, maybe I am made for this. Maybe I can do this. And and so it it was that that, it felt like I was, ah
00:16:19
Speaker
just getting the legitimation that I needed. And so I thought it was an important turning point for me. And I sort of began to think, okay, I i belong here. And those experiences, those moments are really important.
00:16:33
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. I think that's also why You know, internships and and your summer programs are so important because you have those opportunities to get your sea legs a little bit. um I think I can absolutely relate to that. I am also first generation, which you already stated, Dean Bond. um Yeah, I'm a minority. I'm i'm a super minority in terms of my race, my gender, my sexual orientation, all the things. So like there it's like it's just a constant struggle about like showing up as yourself and showing up in a space, especially in a profession that is.
00:17:05
Speaker
I just remember Professor Hawkins explaining this like the legal profession is so behind with diversity because they can because they just find these loopholes. um And so just knowing that that's an uphill battle, but knowing that the fight is so worth it because it's not just about that. um And also find your people. Like once you find your people and you realize like you, you carry each other.
00:17:29
Speaker
um And that is one of the beautiful things about forging friendships in grad school is just, you're all in this struggle together. And so Like, don't be afraid to lean on those people. You're not alone.
00:17:40
Speaker
um And, you know, fake it till you make it a little bit. But also, yeah, but also like the it has to be an intrinsic like you have to figure out how to intrinsically validate yourself, because I think to your point, Dean Bond, like, yes, the extrinsic validation is key.
00:17:56
Speaker
And then once you have those moments, like use them to validate yourself internally, use them as like, no, there's, you don't have to do anything to prove your worth because you're already here. You made it, you're in the door. The Dean's Halls of the world saw you, the you know admissions teams of the world saw you and saw how hard you worked to get here. um And then the last thing I'll say that, and I said this on panels, um like for orientation is like maybe notify your, your,
00:18:22
Speaker
non law school people that like this is a collaborative investment. yeah i think The learning curve of like, oh, snap, my relationships outside of law school are changing because I have a lot less time and a lot less capacity to contribute to these. And so just like maybe put people on notice like, hey, if I don't answer, it's you know not personal.
00:18:44
Speaker
I'm just not available. So that's a really good point. Yeah, they're root and help them, like, make sure, like, let them know you need to, i need you to root for me right now. Like, yeah this is about me and your confidence in me. I'm going to rely on that.
00:18:57
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And to your point, Isabel, about the importance of of finding your people, I mean, the the flip side of that, too, is that that The people you find, you'll bond with throughout law school. And absolutely you all you all haven't had this experience yet, but I'm many years out of law school. And I still get together with that five or six people. And not every year, but but every I would say every four or five years, we get together. We all fly to one place. And it's like we never left law school. it's It's brilliant. Those friendships are real. And, you know, they're they're forged through a lot of shared, in some cases, shared misery, you know, when finals roll around, but but also some really wonderful shared experiences and celebrations of each other's triumphs. So yeah, those are really, really valuable bonds.
00:19:45
Speaker
Okay, what's the biggest myth about law school that should be cleared up? And I actually have one for this. I was really ruminating about this. So I'll share first and you guys can go after me. Great, great.
00:19:56
Speaker
um I think this actually might be true at at other law schools, but um I remember people giving me the heads up, like law school's really competitive and everybody's cutthroat and out for themselves and people rip pages out of textbooks in the library and, you know, will give you wrong information that it's every person for themselves.
00:20:13
Speaker
And like like I said, that might be true to other law schools, but at Rutgers and ah in Camden, I feel like that has never been my experience. Like we are all just really looking out for each other and wanting to like see others succeed. And even though it's graded on a curve and it's complicated in so many ways, like my colleague's success or my friend's success is still my success. And that is so Like that to me, I think is why I've had a positive law school experience because we really worked hard to change that narrative about like why we're here and and what what's what's really the point. The point is to, we're all struggling. Law school sucks for everybody. So let's just do this together. um But yeah, how about you both? What are some myths?
00:20:57
Speaker
Well, you took the words right out of my mouth. That's exactly what I was going to say. That's what I'm sorry. I kid you not. That was my answer. And I think that's really a testament to the leadership of the law school and the dean's office of not fostering that type of culture, where I know that is the the case in other law schools, that it is cutthroat, it is competitive. But I'm just so grateful that that's not how it is at Rutgers on both campuses, it seems like. um I will say that, especially given that this is the last time I'm ever going to school, um this is the last time I'm ever going to spend this amount of time with my law school friends. Of course, you know, like Dean Bon mentioned, like now it'll be four or five years, maybe the next time I see them. So and of course, I know we're all going to kind of move on with our lives. so I'm really just trying to be in the moment because I know time flies and like we just be grateful and enjoy it as much as possible, because this last semester, Isabel, is flying. I'm not sure about you. Flying. I've truly met Dean Zala did a great job creating his tracks because my track is still so close three years later. they've They're my best friends. I've gone to their weddings, their baby showers, like so many life events I've been able to be part of because we were able to meet whether it was orientation or a track or other classes. So I'm just so grateful for that.
00:22:10
Speaker
That's fantastic. I'm so glad that you both have had that experience. That's great. And and yes, Isabel, that was exactly what I was going to say too. So we're all on the same page. I'm glad. That's awesome.
00:22:23
Speaker
All right. So what was everyone's favorite and least favorite classes in law school? I'll start us off because Isabel already name dropped Professor Hawkins. So I actually, my favorite course by far was the South African Constitutional Law Course. I went that this semester. Oh, great. That's that starling Yes, that's awesome. No, no no worries. um So I took it last spring. So 2L Spring with Professor Hawkins. We did a 12-day trip to South Africa during spring break. We visited Johannesburg. Cape Town, we went on a safari. It was truly life-changing. I don't think if it were not for that course, I would ever go to South Africa. So I'm so grateful i took that opportunity, especially during my undergrad experience was kind of split up because of COVID. So I couldn't get that study abroad opportunity that I probably would have taken if COVID didn't happen. So i'm just so grateful. And then just overall, besides even the trip, Professor Hawkins is a fantastic lecturer. I think she's the best professor I've ever had. And her ability to conduct a comparative analysis with the U.S. Constitution, with South African Constitution, while also kind of bringing in her employment law background and, you know, her her little niches herself throughout the course was so pleasant. was such a great experience.
00:23:38
Speaker
That's wonderful. and And Isabel, I'm so glad that you're in that class this semester. That's fantastic. I actually had the privilege of going on the trip to South Africa two years ago. So I was a year before you, Meherian. And it was it was amazing. ah I've done a lot of work in on women's rights in Tanzania and Uganda, um and to some extent working with partners in South Africa. but But this trip was special. To be able to go with students was was really fun and it's free and gratifying to me because I'm out of the classroom for the most part these days. And so you know to have that kind of quality time with students was was really lovely. um And and the the academic component of that class was fascinating to me too. i I've studied the South African Constitution. And yeah and so to to watch students delve into their their own comparative analysis of the South African Constitution and the US Constitution is great. And of course, you know there's some amazing progressive parts of the South African Constitution. So you know looking at those and then comparing them to um to our own constitution and and constitutional law, which is somewhat in flux right now, is a fascinating academic exercise. So I'm glad you both had that experience.
00:24:54
Speaker
ah Favorite and least favorite classes. Great. OK, so um I took criminal procedure investigations with Professor Wade here in Camden, and I have a criminal background. You know, I've worked on both sides of the aisle with criminal law in Philadelphia. um And I you know have a ah big passion for defense work and for, you know,
00:25:16
Speaker
Fourth Amendment, Fifth Amendment rights, especially with young people. So i was super excited to take this class. By the time I took this class in my two spring, though, I was like, I never want to step foot in a criminal courtroom ever. This is too stressful. But I love the professor so much. And it's also on the bar. So i was like, all right, I'm going take it. Um, I kid you not, I was reevaluating my entire life. Like, maybe I should go into criminal law. Maybe I should do this. Um, the way she taught it was so, ah just like, she's so upfront with the implications of the fourth and fifth amendment in our criminal legal system and the abuse of that and how the Supreme court has interpreted, you know, uh, the fifth amendment, sixth amendment, fourth amendment, like I said, And just how much that trickles down into what we see every day and how the criminal legal system disproportionately affects minority communities. And so the fact that she was naming it every class, right, it wasn't just like ah we're going to spend five minutes on our first class, like, hey, by the way, racism exists and then keep going. and talk about these cases like without discussing race. She really was just so you know like upfront, like I said about it. And she really did such a good job of preparing us as future attorneys um to to ask the questions, right? She wasn't biased. She wasn't saying, you know she wasn't probably speaking her own personal opinion about what she thinks, but just inviting us to really think about, okay, what are the consequences to these interpretations and how can we show up, whether as prosecutors or as defense attorneys, and ask these critical questions and how do we, you know, frame the, what has been given us um to really just hone in on what we're here to learn, which is what is the right, you know, and protecting those rights for people. um So yeah, I'm like, maybe I'll be a public defender actually in the end because Professor Wade and criminal procedure, I loved, loved that class.
00:27:08
Speaker
I love, I love that you had those light bulb moments in that class and it's yeah opened, opened your, your world in ways that you probably didn't expect. So. That's great. Sorry, really quickly. It went back to why I picked Rutgers, I think, just to tie this together. To me, it was such a moment of like, this is why I'm here. This is what I came to law school to learn. And so for her to just on her own initiative, be like for, ah ah you know, not a doctrinal class, but a quasi doctrinal class, be up front. I was like, this is it. i'm That's awesome. Yes. Go ahead. That's so great. Yeah.
00:27:40
Speaker
So when I was applying to law schools, this was the dark ages, but um i I only applied to law schools that had someone who was teaching feminist legal theory because I knew I wanted to do women's rights work. um And so back in the dark ages, that was not every law school. I think if I were applying nowadays, you know, almost every law school would have somebody who's who's teaching in that area. Yeah.
00:28:01
Speaker
And so some of my favorite classes were in women's rights and feminist legal theory. um But I will say my other favorite classes were taught by a professor named John Powell, who ah ran an institute called the Institute for Race and Poverty. and And I had the opportunity. I basically became a groupie of his institute. at Every institute event, I was there. i was you know i was helping out, at just volunteering and trying to get as much exposure as I possibly could. but um and he...
00:28:33
Speaker
He was a wonderful mentor and is now teaching out at Berkeley. um but But the lessons that i learned in his class about race, the construction of race in our society was just ah pretty life-changing. I don't know how else to describe it. you know ah we did a We did a project in one of his classes on housing segregation and its impact on school funding. and ah Nowadays, you'd have all kinds of computer tools to to create the maps that we created by hand. I mean, it's just insane. But but it was ah an incredible learning experience. And he's one of those people that, as I look back on my law school experience, he made such an impression on me um and really became a mentor and a friend later. but um but really an extraordinary professor. So that had to be up there with my favorite classes. My least favorite class, and this is, I have to apologize to all of my colleagues in corporate law. Arthur Laby being one of them. ah Arthur's a friend of mine, but but I did not love, I took corporations, what what we call at Rutgers BizOrgs, same class, ah was not my favorite.
00:29:43
Speaker
That's fair, yeah. yeah you um Have you ever gotten to tell Professor Powell how you like how much of an impact he had on you? Yes, I have, fortunately, yes. i I mean, as soon as I entered into academia, you know i was I was in closer touch with him after law school and in those early years when I was in academia, but I was able to bring him back. When I was at Georgetown, I invited him back to come lecture. And so, so yes, we've we've had that kind of professional relationship too, which is really, really gratifying. And not something I would have expected as a law student. you know i just
00:30:16
Speaker
i I just wanted to learn as much as I possibly could. But yeah it sort of blossomed into this this other relationship, which has been great. I love that. Awesome.
00:30:28
Speaker
OK, now it's back to me. So again, you all have sort of alluded to this, but I'm going to put a fine point on it. Explain to our audience what community looks like here at the law school on a day-to-day basis.
00:30:43
Speaker
That's a great question. mean, I could try to jump in. I think community... Yeah, it's the little things. Go ahead. Exactly. it's the It's the 1045 to 11 a.m. m block where everyone's in the hallway going to the next class and you get to catch up with your colleagues and ah you know fellow students that are in other classes, but you didn't get to see each other that day and you get to... really quickly before class starts talk to each other. I think it's also where ah critical departments in the law school, whether that's CCD or MSP, are holding important programs, whether that's socially or networking, professional development.
00:31:18
Speaker
But it's also when student organizations like SBA and you know other important law societies are also hosting events simultaneously at the same time and having an opportunity for us to really think critically and attend these other events, these various events, socially, culturally, networking-wise. And I love also when professors come to our events or faculty members support each other, when deans support each other. I know Dean Vaughn makes an incredible effort to always attend our major galas and you know she's actually speaking at um an event tonight behind the bench so I just love that we have a community where we just support one another whether that's just departmentally or student organization wise or just law school wide that's great and I'm so excited about behind the bench tonight looking forward to it
00:32:07
Speaker
I don't know that I would have said anything different. I think that's i think it's both the informal ways, like you said, on the in Camden, we call it the bridge, um you know the the rush between classes. I think it's, um you know today, this morning, I had a very exciting and kind of like,
00:32:25
Speaker
on its face like kind of hard but like really important conversation with um some administrative people here with one of my really good friends and we you know the fact that we were given a platform because there's like a level of trust that we were able to have these really hard and important conversations you know, across, you know, both not like vertically, right? So between administrative administrators and and students was really, really special. And I think, um you know, just getting to flex that muscle a little bit, you know, because we have this community, we have this understanding of, you know, what we're here to do and how to foster students and build their help build their skill sets, I think is another really big part of that.
00:33:06
Speaker
Absolutely. Wow. You both totally nailed it in terms of describing our community. that That is absolutely true. um Would you add anything to that? um i I would not add anything except to say that I look forward to coming into this building. I i really do. i look forward to coming to the building you know for the random encounters with students or faculty. ah and And i I have the privilege of of having two communities because i I get to know people on the Camden campus as well as the Newark campus. um and And I can say without hesitation that they're both really special communities of people. So I feel very privileged. um
00:33:55
Speaker
for a lot of the same reasons that that you all talked about. love that. ah Okay, so it's back to me. What areas of the law excite you?
00:34:10
Speaker
That's a hard question to answer because, well, for me at least, mean, you may have a better answer than me, but the areas of the law that excite me are the ones that are maybe generate the most consequences. So like excite isn't necessarily the right word. um I am on the law review in Camden, or I guess it's one law review. I'm on the law review and I wrote a note last year on um how criminal law, how the pedagogy of criminal law impacts um young people and how it informs us as students, which therefore informs how young people are treated within ah in the criminal legal system. And
00:34:47
Speaker
i Now I feel differently. But at the time when I was doing the research, I was like, I'm going to get my PhD in this. I was so excited and so just like enthralled in this idea of criminal law as a moral philosophy class, thinking about how, you know, this idea of the prosecutor lost it into prosecutor pipeline. um You know how young people are treated, why we incarcerate young people um and just how much privilege and power we have as law students and as legal professionals, as people who speak the language of the law, um how we use that. Like that is so fascinating to me and getting to
00:35:27
Speaker
getting the opportunity to be inspired by other people doing the work that I find so important. And also maybe the people that I would have more criticism for, right? Learning like, okay, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna be like that. um Those moments are really helped me understand like, what is this all about? You know, what are we doing here? Especially, I think, right now, when being a law student is especially difficult, given that how we understand the rule of law is challenged every day.
00:35:54
Speaker
um And so, yeah, I think for me, it's it's always been about young people. It's always been about, you know, how young people are treated within the criminal legal system specifically, but then having the opportunity to really dive into something on my own, to come up with this thesis and be supported in that. and write a note, which quick plug, it will be published, which is really exciting. That's good fantastic. Thank you. It's just like, it is very, very rewarding. um And in another life, if I got my PhD, that's what i would do. That's great.
00:36:25
Speaker
That's awesome. love that. Yeah. I genuinely feel so excited by every type of law that I encounter. And I think that really speaks to Rutgers faculty members because they are so excited to teach, especially their niche area. For example, right now I'm taking wrongful convictions taught by Professor Cohen and that is like her bread and butter. So especially like when you're being taught by someone like that as what she spent her entire career doing. She's proposed legislations in Jersey. Like she's done fantastic work. So it's like, how could I not be excited by this even if I know criminal law specifically isn't what I'm probably going to go into. But I am just so excited but but ah about everything.
00:37:04
Speaker
I'm so excited about everything. um Last semester I took, I was in the housing and justice clinic. I love that. And that's something that, again, I don't think I'm necessarily going to go into. But housing law was so interesting, especially because it's being taught by housing attorneys. So, but I do think specifically for me, what I probably will go into was this past summer, I was at the public defender's office, specifically in the law guardian office, which is child welfare welfare cases. And a law guardian is a state appointed advocate for children involved in these proceedings. And I just think I'm really fascinated by that. I really enjoyed my experience in this overall family law in general. So anything client facing, though, I i love that.
00:37:45
Speaker
That's wonderful. ah Well, I sort of fall into the camp of of what areas ah of the law excite me, and the answer is all of them. And and I'll tell you why. I mean, i did, as you know, i shared, i came into law school with very specific interests. um very public interest oriented all through law school. But um I had an interesting experience as a ah federal judicial clerk after law school. And i I have to say, I went in with a bad attitude. I thought, you know I'm this hardcore public interest person. I care about social justice. And I'm not going to be interested in in the patent case that comes along.
00:38:24
Speaker
And what I found out was that I'm actually really interested in those cases. We had fascinating cases come before the judge. And and they were, you know, one of my favorite cases was actually a patent case. But but the point is, it it totally blew my mind how fascinating I thought all these cases from all these different areas of law were. And i I went in thinking, I'm not going to be interested. This is going to be boring. I know it's really important to do it, but I'm not going to love it. And I loved it.
00:38:52
Speaker
So it was surprising to me, but but I think that that demonstrates to me at least that I can find something interesting about almost any legal question. I'm interning across the street in Camden, I guess I should be more specific. I'm interning in the district of New Jersey this semester with judge. And it's funny, I have a patent case that I'm working on. And I was like, all right, trying to keep a good attitude. This patent law case is in front of me. Okay, got this. I just took IP with Professor Carrier. have a good foundation. And then I get into it and I'm like,
00:39:24
Speaker
wait, this is so interesting. and im like I have all these tabs open and I'm like asking the clerk, I'm like, can I have like one more day to research? Because I actually have all these questions, you know? Yes, I can absolutely relate to that. That's great. i love That's great. ah so Yes, go ahead. i I don't think it's my turn.
00:39:44
Speaker
Yeah, awesome. So what strategies have helped you maintain a balance in law school? I could briefly answer this. I think I really love extracurriculars. I think maybe you could tell by being president of SBA, I really dislike kind of student leadership positions. And I think because we're just taking a rigorous course load, whether that's bar courses or clinic or both at the same time, it's kind of nice to be able to take a break, but also at the same time, give back to the student body that is, you know, that I'm going to classes with. So through my work in SBA, that's been very rewarding.
00:40:17
Speaker
um Additionally, I always try to take time off on the weekends. Like I mentioned before, I love going to concerts. I always like try to have one concert lined up for every few months because it just really makes me happy.
00:40:27
Speaker
And I like doing things in the area as well. Like in Newark, there's a art shop called Glass Roots. I just did a glass blowing workshop there, which is really cool. We made some paperweights. So yeah, I think there's so many cool like small owned businesses in the area that I just want to support and also, you know, kind of get my creative creativity flowing through there.
00:40:46
Speaker
That's wonderful. I think um this question implies that I have balance. Yes, I'm still struggling. My answer is constantly developing. um So I honestly was not until until a year that I think I really figured this out. 1L year, we're not going to.
00:41:05
Speaker
go there, my lack of balance. I learned the hard way what lack of balance looks like. and But two a year, actually started taking a dance class. So ah my partner owns a dance studio and I've always wanted to be a ballerina. And so I was like, you know what? I'm going to take ballet.
00:41:20
Speaker
And so every saturday i love the i Saturday I took ballet and it was I was surrounded by people who did not care about the law. Right. And they were supportive of me and they're like, law school. Amazing. But they weren't like we weren't talking about the law. We weren't talking about anything. We were just it was joyous. ah you know surrounded by you know a bunch of just like people who looked like me you know dancing. And it was also you know a hat tip to my inner child getting to you know move my body and finally do this thing that I've always wanted to do. So I think, Mehreen, to your point, like the extracurriculars are key. And also, i think when the moments, when they get really, really tough, I think one of the biggest things that I always go back to is
00:42:02
Speaker
talking to people outside of the law school and just reminding yourself, you know, who you are outside of being a law student, who you are outside of being an attorney um and whatever you need to do to remind yourself of that, whether it's, you know, movement or reading or you know, glassblowing. That's so cool. yeah I love that.
00:42:19
Speaker
That is really what keeps me grounded. That's excellent. Excellent. Those are great strategies. ah I have one note to add to the to the mix, and it really falls into the bucket of things not to do to try and achieve balance in your life. But when I was a one l was this was towards the end of my 1L year, I decided to get a puppy.
00:42:41
Speaker
I thought, you know, what could possibly go wrong? Yeah. And it actually ended up being fantastic. This dog was was truly beloved by me for 10 years, for that period of time, you know, sort of all through the rest of law school into my early ah career. And she kept me grounded in a way that that I would not have thought possible. but But it did mean that I was rushing home between classes, you know, to walk the dog and that kind of thing So you've got to know what you're getting into when you do it. But I have no regrets. It was it was it was wonderful, actually.
00:43:15
Speaker
I love that. What kind of dog was it? She was a ah pound puppy. um And I think she was a mix between a lab and a chow. Oh, she was here she was amazing. Best dog ever to this day. You know, I've had I've had several other dogs. They're great. They are not like my law school dog.
00:43:34
Speaker
ah yeah he was incredible Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so this question is for you, Dean Bond. um And it's a tough one because you have to pick one.
00:43:46
Speaker
What is the most rewarding aspect of your role as Dean? That's impossible to pick one. I mean, all right, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to answer creatively and roll several things into one. Like a true attorney. Yes, exactly. Right. It's both and. up yes No, I think what what I find most rewarding about this job is really the students and the alums. And, um,
00:44:10
Speaker
And i i love talking to our students. I love finding out what they're doing, both in class and outside of class. ah Similarly, when I get out into the alumni community, i am amazed. We have extraordinary alums out in the world doing incredible work. you know whether they're judges now or work in the private sector and have sort of risen through the ranks at their law firms and they're in leadership now or they're in they're in government and public interest no matter what they're doing across the board we have alums who are just remarkable and and they they have this connection to rutgers law school which i really value it means that they want to
00:44:54
Speaker
engage with me as the dean they want to reinvest in law school most importantly they care about you guys they they they want to give back to the students who are current students and so you know they do that through a variety of means sometimes it's time sometimes it's service on panels sometimes it's it's financial support uh but but the loyalty to the institution is really remarkable And and i I love connecting with with our alums and our students. um So I've got to say that's that's the most rewarding part of my job. And I spend a lot of time on it. So it's it's really quite gratifying.
00:45:32
Speaker
I can't wait to be an alum. I mean, maybe that's my 3L senioritis talking, but um yeah but i I mean that not like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to graduate because I actually, it's very bittersweet. But no, I really, i can't wait to join that network. i can't wait go back to the school. You know, I can't wait to...
00:45:47
Speaker
continue to build on the legacy and the foundation that so many people before we have built. I know, hearing i I'm sure I can speak for you here to say like, we both are so positively impacted, like we feel that as students that alum support and so getting to give that back. I'm so excited.
00:46:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's really a wonderful community of alums. So they will welcome you with open arms. Yes. Yay, I'm glad. All right, so I'm up next.
00:46:13
Speaker
What does everyone think the strengths of Rutgers Law are that most people don't know about? And I think even, Dean Vaughn, with your last response of the alumni network, I think that's something that people don't immediately think about, but that is definitely a key strength of ours. I think we have incredible professors. They have incredible scholarship. um incredible people, incredible community and diversity. But I do think something that we don't highlight enough, and that's not something that we would immediately think too, is that we have amazing staff members here. These staff members, over if they weren't here, this law school would not be running. So I'm just so grateful. Yes, exactly. So I'm just so grateful for them and like just administrators in general, because I really value having that kind of, those personal relationships, whether it's like the program administrator in the Dean's office or, you know, the woman running the CLE program at Rutgers, like they're all fantastic and mean so much to me. And that's the type of relationship I always yearn for. And kind of what Isabel was saying earlier, you don't always want to talk about law school with you know your peers, but that's typically what you talk about with your fellow students. But having those staff members and administrators being able to be there for you, but not always talking about law, just talking about our lives is really awesome.
00:47:23
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. i i i just want to agree with that 100%. The staff at on both campuses are really um amazing. and And their dedication to students and student success is something that i i I feel on a daily basis. I hope it's palpable to our students. um It's certainly heartfelt. um and And they really are the lifeblood of the institution. Without without them, we would We would not function, as you said, Meherian. They're really what what keeps the doors open and the lights on. um
00:47:57
Speaker
One thing I wanted to add is is that we we are known as um ah ah very an intellectual powerhouse at Rutgers Law School. But but that was was sort of solidified recently because Hine Online came out with a ah survey of um the scholarship among law schools, scholarly contributions among law schools and Rutgers ranked number 22, which is really, um awesome really extraordinary. Yes, it is. It's incredible. And it reflects the the faculty and the faculty's commitment to producing scholarship.
00:48:34
Speaker
And I don't know if you all know this, but I probably shouldn't say this, Isabel, now that your note's going to be published. But somewhere, sometime, I read that the the average law review article has a readership of seven people. And so, you know, every time i everything about da every time I published a law review article, I thought, okay, well, there's my mom and my dad. That's two of them. Yes, exactly.
00:48:56
Speaker
um I'll be a reader. Okay, right fair enough. But my point about Rutgers faculty is that that they're they're not producing scholarship just to sit on a shelf somewhere. So much of the scholarship that's produced at this institution is is publicly engaged scholarship. It's it's you know for the purpose of changing a law where there's an injustice or for the purpose of of making better privacy law, what whatever the case may be. It's it's really intentional, engaged scholarship. and And I'm very proud of that. I'm not sure everybody knows that about Rutgers.
00:49:31
Speaker
That reminds of the summer. i um One of my the cases that I worked on had, we were talking, I did some research on the um universal injunction and how the, just, we were trying to figure something out. But Professor Cruz here in Camden just came out with an article, I think last semester at some point, that really addressed the question we were asking for our client. And I was like, oh, let me just send this to the attorney I was working with. Like, hey, yeah, my professor wrote this. You know, like, it was just such a moment, you know, to plug Rutgers and to be like, yes, I'm so proud. You know, look how I i go to school and I learn from all these smart people. um
00:50:06
Speaker
i think that is, that's a really good point. Yeah. It's a great illustration of the point. Thanks, Isabel. Yeah. Yes. um Okay.
00:50:18
Speaker
What is the big, ooh, this is, I don't know if we can get political here, but what are the biggest challenges facing law schools in 2026?
00:50:31
Speaker
That's a tough one. Yeah. I mean, there are so many headwinds right now. um and And I think, you know, they they really run the gamut. There's sort of the the financial pressures on law schools right now. um the The idea that we... need to adapt to a changing government and political structure and democracy and and that we're you know we're turning students out into the world to act as lawyers in ah in a changing landscape where constitutional law, for example, is is changing weekly almost. um and And so, you know, making sure that we are actually giving students the tools that they need to be strong advocates and proponents of democracy is really important and it's important to our mission. um But
00:51:23
Speaker
There are also other challenges that that are less political, but real. And those those are you know the challenges brought by AI and the opportunities is brought by AI too. you know I think it's it's one of those things where and we need to prepare our students to um operate and practice law in a world that is dominated by AI, but but we also need them to understand the ethical challenges involved and and the limitations of ai so you know, those kinds of, um,
00:51:55
Speaker
The need to to stay current in the curriculum that we're delivering to students in a rapidly changing landscape is, is I would say, one of the challenges. um But there really are so many. um the The other one that I think is top of mind is is the threats to academic freedom and freedom of speech. And and that has been front and center in in a lot of ways at a lot of schools and universities. Absolutely.
00:52:24
Speaker
ah So that that is one that you know I feel like we we tackle in some form or another almost every week. ah So it's it's it's very much front and center.
00:52:35
Speaker
yeah What about you two? What would you add to that? Yeah, just going off of that, Dean Bonn, I totally agree. And especially from a student perspective, It's been difficult for me to be engaged in the classroom academically. you know, I'm in criminal procedure right now. I'm taking these very important courses for the bar exam and perform well when, like Dean Bond had mentioned, we're grappling with what's going on in the world.
00:52:59
Speaker
For me, I'll speak for me at least, I'm seeing the rule of law being completely disregarded on a national level. So it's kind of hard for me to feel kind of excited about you know entering this career of being a lawyer and you know feeling motivated as well. And you know it kind of feels like the world is on fire at times. And it's been discouraging at times, but i remind myself by looking at our community, kind of looking around the classroom and you know the student body as a whole, of how incredible we are, how brilliant we are. And that really is kind of what takes me out of that that hole sometimes when i'm you know I'm feeling a bit down about it. But I'm definitely hopeful that we're going to be able to move past this moment.
00:53:38
Speaker
And Isabel and I, we're going to join this alumni network in a few months. And we're going to be able to give back to the future law students at Rutgers as well. Excellent. I think for me, the first thing that came to mind was Grad Plus loans. I think... um the there's already um a divide, I would say, or there's the legal profession is already elitist, right? It's already one that is um rewards people with money. um And so I think the fact that the, ah you know, grad plus loans are no longer available for people, you know, that's the only way I could afford a law school education is grad plus loans. And so I think about you know, I love being a first-generation law student. I have lot of pride in that. And Rutgers, so many of us are first-generation law students, and that's incredible. um
00:54:26
Speaker
And so i I just worry about that. I worry about who now we we allow to learn the law um if we can't afford to learn the law. And it's people who can't afford to learn the law that are sometimes the best people to learn the law. and So um that I think about as a huge threat. I also think about... um the recruiting timeline. i i just i This is not that large and it doesn't impact everybody, but the big law recruiting timeline and and how that's trickling outside of big law, I think is really putting a lot of stress on students in a way that i it's gotten worse even in the last two years. i mean There's just a lot going on with that. So I think I would really love to see the ABA come out with something I'd really love to see. You know, and I think there's a lot of antitrust issues with that. It's really complicated, but I do think something has to be done about the way that students are being recruited and students talents are being considered.
00:55:19
Speaker
um So, yeah, those's that's my two cents. I totally agree. I hope there'll be a course correction soon. Yes, I hope so. It's much needed. yeah Yeah, right. um Well, we we have to wrap up and I feel like I could talk to both of you all day long. so I feel like we're just getting started, but but we do need to wrap up. And I just want to thank you both so much for taking the time to join me today on the podcast.
00:55:45
Speaker
Really incredible guests and and such remarkable examples of of student leadership. I'm so proud to have you as as part of our communities and and to have you as leaders in our community. We are so lucky to have you now as students and we will be lucky in the future to have you as alum. So I hope you'll stay in touch with us when you cross over that that commencement f bridge. But anyway, thank you both so much. Thanks, Devon. Thank you, Devon. Good to see you. Yes. it Nice to see you,
00:56:14
Speaker
The Power of Attorney is a production of Rutgers Law School. With two locations just minutes from New York City and Philadelphia, Rutgers Law offers the prestige and reputation of a large nationally known university with a personal small campus experience.
00:56:30
Speaker
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