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S07E10: A Conversation with Rutgers University–Camden Chancellor Antonio D. Tillis
0 Playsin 16 hours
Rutgers University–Newark Chancellor Antonio D. Tillis joins Dean Bond for a wide-ranging conversation about his journey in education and his vision for the Rutgers campus in Camden. You can read more about Chancellor Tillis here.
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The Power of Attorney is produced by Rutgers Law School. With two locations minutes from Philadelphia and New York City, Rutgers Law offers the prestige and reputation of a large, nationally known university combined with a personal, small campus experience. Learn more by visiting law.rutgers.edu.
Executive Producer: Shanida Carter
Series Producer & Editor: Nate Nakao
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Transcript
00:00:09
Speaker
You're listening to the award-winning podcast from Rutgers Law School, The Power of Attorney. I'm your host and Dean of the Law School, Joanna Bond.
00:00:24
Speaker
I'm joined today by Rutgers University Camden Chancellor, Dr. Antonio Tillis. He has served as chancellor since July, 2021. Chancellor Tillis is an internationally known scholar who has presented his work at universities and academic conferences around the world. He has decades of higher education experience that guide his commitment to elevating research output, student success, civic engagement, and internationalism.
00:00:51
Speaker
Rutgers Camden is one of the locations of our law school. Chancellor Tillis, thank you so much for joining us today. i want to start by asking you to tell us a little bit about your origin story, going all the way back to Memphis. Well, thank you, first of all, Dean Bung for having me and going all the way back to Memphis is the origin story because that's where it all all so all began.
00:01:14
Speaker
Born and raised in Memphis, Tennessee, a city that I absolutely love because of my city's richness and culture, history, and also resilience.
00:01:25
Speaker
Grew up in a working class family, was surrounded by people who believed in the power of education and the power also of community. And I say that being a first generation college educated person that my family really saw as as did my teachers, you know,
00:01:43
Speaker
that my future had higher education in it. And so they kind of ah lobbied around me, made sure that I had things that I needed, forbade me to get a job after after school, which I fought because it's not like we didn't need the money, but I was told time and time again, my job was to study.
00:02:04
Speaker
and to make sure that I got a scholarship. And so that's um that's what I did. And my grandfather in particular was ah was a guiding force in my life. You know, daddy, as we all called him, even though he was our grandfather, we all called him daddy, was a hardworking, coming from Mississippi, Arkansas Tennessee roots. that whole arkansas and tennessee route so that whole um Tri-state area that situated near the Mississippi Delta that formed me. And also, you know, my grandfather and my great grandfather, father, mother, they all instilled in me a deep respect for learning and also a deep respect, I would say, for justice, which also shaped my early thoughts about what I wanted to be in life.
00:02:49
Speaker
Well, that's actually a perfect segue to my next question, which relates to a previous interview in which you said that your plan was actually to go to law school. ah I want to ask you a little bit about that. You and your grandfather watched Perry Mason and you were captivated by his rhetoric in the in the courtroom. So what was the turning point for you when you were an undergraduate at Vanderbilt?
00:03:10
Speaker
Yeah, so, I mean, you're bringing back some great memories of my grandfather and I sitting around that little, little bitty television that was black and white back then, I guess I'm telling my age, walking watching Perry Mason. And I was fascinated. by the way in which he captivated the jury and the audience and and his the language and the power of persuasive language and also this notion about seeking justice. So since then, as we say in the South, since knee-high to a duck, the only thing I thought I wanted to be was a lawyer, but I thought I wanted to twist it with with some corporate international. so
00:03:50
Speaker
Got to Vanderbilt, majored in Spanish with with english with English in order to prepare for law school. And what really did it was, you know, again, i didn't get into the law school of choice, but I had a love for Spanish, a love for languages and literature and cultural studies. So I thought, OK, I'll get a mat. I'll work because that's what happened. I went and worked in corporate. for a while and then got to Washington, D.C. via corporate opportunity and started school at at Howard University, continuing the Spanish and studying the literature of the Civil War, fell in love. And after that, actually never thought about law school after that. Understandable. Yeah.
00:04:31
Speaker
That's great. That's great. Well, so let me ask you, what actually brought you to Rutgers Camden and what was your journey from Howard to Rutgers? Yeah, that's a very interesting question because I left Howard and then went to graduate school at the University of Columbia to get a PhD, University of Missouri, Columbia, that is, in order to get a PhD in Romance Languages and Literatures. At that time, it was the university that had that doctoral program that interests me because of its bend on Afro-Latin American studies. And so I went there, then got the first job after graduating at Purdue University where I was tenured.
00:05:11
Speaker
as an associate professor, left Purdue and then went to Dartmouth College to give leadership to Dartmouth College's African African American Studies program. From there had two deanship before landing here, a deanship at the College of Charleston, Charleston, South Carolina. And then probably one of the my most enjoyable deanships was at the University of Houston.
00:05:32
Speaker
And from there, the president, chancellor of the system, tapped me out to go give leadership to the University of Houston downtown as its interim president to basically shepherd that campus through the pandemic. And from there, i landed here Rutgers University in Camden.
00:05:51
Speaker
Fantastic. Well, we're so glad that you did land here. That's wonderful. ah and And I really appreciate knowing about the importance of education in your early upbringing. I think that that that can be such a motivator, and and clearly it has led you down ah ah a really compelling path. So I'm so glad to hear about that. ah Let me ask you about your your personal journey, especially as a first-generation student, um how did that inform your commitment to student success and equity? I know I've heard you talk a lot about student success, and it's one of those values that we share. ah so So I'm curious about whether your experiences as ah as a student really inform that.
00:06:36
Speaker
You know, you are so absolutely right, Dean Bond, and thank you for that question because, you know, the only thing that we have in these types of roles and is is is the power of our story.
00:06:48
Speaker
And it is important that our students and members of the community K through 12, as well as those that are matriculating at Rutgers-Camden and with our community partnerships, with community colleges and county colleges, that they understand that.
00:07:03
Speaker
And they understand that a lot of it is fueled by my undergraduate experience in graduating from being first gen, not knowing, it didn't have, couldn't call home to say, should I drop this course because I'm taking 21 hours, knowing that it was just too much for me to take on as an undergraduate student. And then that type of information was not readily available So, you know, many of us, many first gens, we meander through without knowing what to ask and knowing to whom we should ask. And so as a result of that, that really guides what I do in working with our professionals and student success and equity, making sure that every student has the opportunity to formulate, to understand how to formulate the right question and then to whom should that question go relative to their success. I never want a student to say what I said when I graduated from Vanderbilt, I wish I had known, meaning that I wish I had known about opportunities that were available. I wish I had known how to manage this undergraduate career differently and the like. So, you know, for me, it is, um
00:08:20
Speaker
it's it's It's a reverse engineering of that question that really helps me to work with professional colleagues um here to make sure that we do what we say we're going to do, and that is support our students in this wraparound fashion.
00:08:36
Speaker
Absolutely. You know, it's it's such ah a complex world to navigate, especially as a first-gen student. So I think that ah all all that orientation towards providing support to our students makes a lot of sense to me, really resonates.
00:08:52
Speaker
Okay, now for a fun question. what's What's the best part of your job? Well, you know what? That's actually an easy question, dr bad Dean Bond. The students are You know, every day I'm inspired by our students. I'm inspired by our students' resilience, by their creativity, by their intellect, by their grit, by their drive. You know, seeing them succeed.
00:09:16
Speaker
And I get, like you, we get the opportunity to see them um succeed, not only in the classroom, but to see them succeed relative to community service and to see their personal growth. I would have to say that. When we see them as a first-year student,
00:09:32
Speaker
And then we see them when we're shaking their hand at commencement. And we see that personal growth. We see that professional growth. And for me, that is the most rewarding part of of my job.
00:09:44
Speaker
It's absolutely gratifying. you're You're right. To watch that that transformation in those years when when our students are in school, it really is so gratifying.
00:09:55
Speaker
Okay, so that the flip side of that question is what is, what is the biggest challenge for you as a leader of Rutgers-Camden? Yeah, you know, i would have to say that the biggest challenge is balancing what I'm going to call innovation with tradition.
00:10:15
Speaker
You know, in this you know in in in this sector, we're constantly evolving. to meet the needs of today's learners and while trying to honor the legacy and the value that has traditionally defined Rutgers-Camden. You know, you are aware as I am, there's a dynamic tension between the two, but it's one that keeps us, I think, forwardly focused in the sense that we really have to think about what makes us great and what has historically made us great, and then how we build onto that to elevate it as we think about how to innovate.
00:10:55
Speaker
Absolutely. So related to that, i'm going to ask about this year in particular. What what would you say is your top priority for for this academic year, 2025-2026? Yeah, 2025, 2026 probably is going to be focusing on probably deepening student engagement and expanding interdisciplinary opportunities. ah We're investing in initiatives that foster collaboration across schools and disciplines. In order to ensure that students graduate with what our strategic plan says is a holistic, future-ready, job-ready education. Similarly, our international strategy is an area of focus you know, as we continue to foster relationships with with partner institutions across the globe to make sure that our students are not just ready to be thought leaders you know statewide, locally, nationally, but also can engage internationally upon graduation.
00:11:58
Speaker
Well, I have a follow-up question for you about that, but I'm goingnna i'm going to wait a moment ah and ask you a question about your specifically about your 15 in 5 initiatives and your Year of the Arts initiatives. These are exciting initiatives that I know about, but I think our our listeners would be very excited to know about.
00:12:17
Speaker
Great, so 15 and five. um From my first year having conversations with multiple academic units, non-academic units, gathering information about Rutgers Camden, 15 and five was born out of those conversations. And so the thought was to launch three initiatives over the five years of my contract that would speak to what I learned.
00:12:47
Speaker
Well, fortunately for us, those 15 initiatives basically were birthed within the first three and a half years. And so we've provided opportunities for staff, opportunities for our lecturers, opportunities for our tenured faculty, as well as opportunities for our students in order to elevate in all of those areas.
00:13:09
Speaker
And we even, you know, again, knowing that oftentimes our graduate students, particularly when they are as we say, ABD, all-big dissertation, that oftentimes they're teaching, there are other things that pull them away from their focusing wholly on their doctoral research, that we even instituted a grant for our doctoral students who also need that time in order to really focus on finishing whatever that last little piece is that constitutes their all but but dissertation. It's been great. And the fun part about all of that is the year of the arts. know, we've had a wonderful year of bringing some amazing people to our campus from Ranky Tanky to He Who Is Coming on the 27th.
00:14:00
Speaker
of this month, legendary Cuban jazz trumpeter Arturo Sandoval is coming. All of that is also in celebration of Hispanic heritage, but we're also bringing an acclaimed artist, an Afro-Cuban artist, Renier Rianes is coming. So the year of the arts has allowed us to really invest in bringing arts to our our community.
00:14:23
Speaker
Another thing that it has done is that we set aside funding for faculty to think about innovative ways in which they can inculcate art into their curriculum. So hopefully it'll be an inculcation that will repeat. And so we've been able to give small grants to faculty who are bringing in of of thought leaders that have thought about art in their discipline or thought about art interdisciplinarily in their discipline. So we're we're excited about that.
00:14:52
Speaker
Well, it's a wonderful initiative, I have to say. And the law school has been able to take advantage of this by thinking about the intersection of art and the law. And we had a guest speaker last year supported by the program, and we'll have a guest speaker this year also supported by the program. So thank you very much for that. That's amazing. I like hearing that.
00:15:12
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And and i I also want to ask you about the role that you see the law school playing in in the law in advancing Rutgers-Camden's strategic goals?
00:15:24
Speaker
Yeah. You know, the law school is actually centric to our mission. you know, it's not just a place that we think about a silo that is for professional education for postgraduate students who aspire to become a part of the legal world and the legal system. um it's not only It not only trains future legal professionals, but the law school also serves as a hub for public service, public innovation, and interdisciplinary research. Its work in social justice and civic engagement amplifies our impact regionally and also nationally, which is a thread that is throughout our strategic plan, whether it's and looking at how we engage with our community through the pro bono clinic or even right wider, looking at the Innocence Project,
00:16:14
Speaker
But because the law school is situated on the campus, it gives students who may not who who may not have thought about a legal education. They have to pass through that breezeway. So they have to physically pass through. and And in so doing, they have to, in some way, engage the law school. So for our students who are interested in becoming a part of of the legal world or getting a legal education, the law school is visibly there.
00:16:44
Speaker
And it's also there for students who may not know so. And the law faculty are also engaged across the university, which I think makes it so much more exciting for interdisciplinary work.
00:16:57
Speaker
Absolutely. We have so many faculty members who are involved in interdisciplinary collaborations across campus. um and And I love the idea that our physical presence on campus is a reminder that law school is an option for anybody who is interested. ah so So that's great. and And you and I know there are a lot of of wonderful cross collaborations occurring across campus. um One of them is Professor J.C. Lohr's collaboration with arts and sciences professor Kim Moran's forensics class, which is just one example. But but you and I also know, because we we both participated in the trip to South Africa, that there is another international interdisciplinary collaboration that really brings together different departments from across the campus ah in in exposing our students to South Africa and, in our case, related issues around justice within South Africa and the South African legal system. um and And you and I were both fortunate enough to participate in that trip in 2024.
00:18:05
Speaker
How do you think interdisciplinary collaboration plays a role in your vision for for really academic excellence at Rutgers-Camden?
00:18:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great, great question, Dean Bond. I think that the more we break down interdisciplinary, break down disciplinary silos in order to focus on interdisciplinary collaboration, it's it's a win-win for our students. Our students are not inhabiting a disciplinary world.
00:18:36
Speaker
the world is multidisciplinary and the the more that they learn on how to engage from multiple intellectual artistic perspectives, the better that they will be relative to job performance and just knowledge in general.
00:18:53
Speaker
um It's the heartbeat of, I think, of academic excellence, as you stated, relative to to these types of collaborations. You know, when students and faculty from different fields come together, they really generate amazing ideas.
00:19:07
Speaker
um They challenge assumptions, but they also solve complex problems. I'll take it to a point that you mentioned relative to South Africa. When the law students, having exposure to the Constitutional Courts of South Africa, It gives them another set of knowledge based on how we are with our judicial system in comparison to what's happening in South Africa. It's the same thing that happens with the students that go for business.
00:19:34
Speaker
I like the forensics class. because I think that you know for we're in an age to where we see law and forensics plastered over the television through all of these series, and the more students see how to become that forensic psychologist working with a lawyer in order to solve a case, the better they realize how how you know the education that they're getting It's actually preparing them for those scenarios that they encounter on these series.
00:20:10
Speaker
Absolutely. and And legal practice involves a it involves knowledge across a range of disciplines. so So it's not just limited to legal knowledge. You're absolutely right. And and we do sometimes think of of the teaching that we do in a siloed way. And so i I've really made it a point to try and break down those silos as well. Yeah.
00:20:30
Speaker
and encourage interdisciplinary work. And I come from an interdisciplinary background, so it it really makes sense for me. But ah what are your what are your hopes for the next generation of law students and legal professionals who are graduating from Rutgers Law School?
00:20:48
Speaker
What do you hope that they will accomplish in the world? You know, have quite a few statements on that. I'm going to start by saying, you know, to really help us as a society understand the rule of law and understand what it means relative to as to why we why our democracy shaped the way that it is and how the rule of law undergirds that.
00:21:17
Speaker
and to be able to do that not only in the classroom or not only in the courtroom, but in going to a high school and talking to young people about making these dynamic situations accessible um of to to to multiple constituencies within our community. I also hope they leave not only with legal expertise, but with deep sense of purpose.
00:21:42
Speaker
And I really think that that is what Rutgers Law gives to our law students. I want them to be advocates for justice, equality, and community. Leaders who use their skills to make meaningful change for the common and the public good. And I think that that is what many of our alumni are doing as they matriculate into their their profession as as legal professionals.
00:22:11
Speaker
I certainly see that when I go out and and speak with our alumni. They are leaders within their communities. They are leaders in the bar associations. We are we are ah really developing leadership capacity within our law students. And and not surprisingly, they go on to ah hold public service positions, to hold leadership positions. And so I'm i'm very proud of that within our alumni community.
00:22:37
Speaker
what What opportunities do you see for Rutgers Camden to deepen its partnerships with the Camden community and beyond? Yes. Yes, you know, this institution has a long history of community engaged scholarship and community engaged partnerships. So I'm hopeful that we can build on those partnerships that we have and also think, you know, what what are the partnerships that we need that do not exist that can really assist our students as far as as experiential learning opportunities
00:23:13
Speaker
um are concerned. And I know with the law school is looking at, you know, where can our students be placed? What are the possibilities of our students working with some of our alumni attorneys in order to get that practical experience of the day-to-day of what it means, of what it looks like to be a lawyer, but also with the multiple different strands of the law. and and and the practice of law, I should say, because we'd love to see our students to work with public defenders to understand how that works, to see them in corporate entities working with in the law offices or the law areas of the 76ers. And you and I have spoken about that, still trying to push that. Excellent. I like to hear that. Yeah, but really looking at things, what's needed.
00:24:00
Speaker
what what's needed And how can we build on and and expand these opportunities for our students? I think that's fantastic. and And it also gives our students opportunities to try out legal practice in a lot of different areas because many students come into law school and have no idea what kind of law they want to practice, which makes sense. I didn't either. But but by trying a few different practice areas, either through an externship or or ah some kind of internship, those opportunities really create a sense for the law student of what it means to be in that area of practice. So it allows our students to to make an informed choice about what kind of area of the law they want to practice in. so
00:24:46
Speaker
Correct. You know, it's it's very interesting because ah as you're speaking, i can't help but think about the law students who have had experiences in municipal government working in the legal office of of the mayor. And many of those students say that they...
00:25:01
Speaker
had no idea and that they didn't and didn't understand what practicing law looked like in municipal government. And that's straight to your point, right exposing our students to opportunities that they may not have thought about.
00:25:15
Speaker
It really opens a door for them. That's exciting. Well, congratulations on the recent designation by Washington Monthly as a best-in-class college. That's fantastic. Looking ahead, ah what do you what do you hope your legacy will be here at Rutgers-Camden?
00:25:32
Speaker
You know, I really hope my legacy will be one where first-generation students feel empowered and that students who come here understand that we collectively are invested in their success. You know, yeah, the brick and mortar, the new buildings here, new buildings there, you know, new programs here, new programs there. You know, all of that is a part of the job. However, the legacy for me has to be when students, when they graduate and they realize how studying abroad in South Africa or working with professors interdisciplinarily and forensics, how that was, how those experiences were just indelible to their formation and transformational relative to their, to their educational experience, and then see how it it is applicable to what they end up doing in life. That is the legacy that that but that I want to leave here.
00:26:36
Speaker
That's wonderful. and And I see you building that legacy on a daily basis. So ah so that is really inspiring. Now, is there anything that you would like to add before we finish up?
00:26:49
Speaker
You know, i say sometimes tongue in cheek that, tom and I think you've heard me say this, that Rutgers University in Camden is the little engine that can and the little engine that is.
00:27:06
Speaker
In the sense that you know our university is is a place, its it's a place of possibility. you know It's a place of hope. It's a place of empowerment for students. whether and And it's also a place where faculty members, alumni and community partners have a voice and we work together in order to advance this institution. And we understand too that that's the only way that we can do that. That's the only way that we can move this institution forward in order to be recognized. But we don't do it for the in order to be recognized by Washington Monthly or by News and World Report.
00:27:49
Speaker
It's what we owe our students. And as a result of being successful in those areas, we get a little national recognition and attention.
00:28:01
Speaker
Right. It's always nice when it happens. But I agree with you. Not the reason we do what we do, but ah but it's always nice. Well, Chancellor, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today. i really appreciate you taking the time.
00:28:15
Speaker
Thank you. It's been my pleasure. And thank you for all that you do for our law school. Thank you. Thank you very much. Take care.
00:28:24
Speaker
The Power of Attorney is a production of Rutgers Law School. With two locations just minutes from New York City and Philadelphia, Rutgers Law offers the prestige and reputation of a large nationally known university with a personal small campus experience.
00:28:41
Speaker
Learn more by visiting us at law.rutgers.edu.