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S7E05: (Rebroadcast) Military Law and Life in the Coast Guard, with Rear Admiral William G. Dwyer RLAW'04
2 Playsin 8 minutes
Rear Admiral William G. Dwyer RLAW'04 joins Dean Bond to discuss the litigation skills of Coast Guard Judge Advocates General (JAG), his career in the military and how law school contributed to his growth.
The Power of Attorney is produced by Rutgers Law School. With two locations minutes from Philadelphia and New York City, Rutgers Law offers the prestige and reputation of a large, nationally known university combined with a personal, small campus experience. Learn more by visiting law.rutgers.edu.
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Executive Producer: Shanida Carter
Series Producer & Editor: Nate Nakao
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Transcript
Rebroadcast and Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Today's episode is a rebroadcast of a previously recorded episode of the podcast.
00:00:13
Speaker
You're listening to the award-winning podcast from Rutgers Law School, The Power of Attorney. I'm your host and dean of the law school, Joanna Bond.
Meet Rear Admiral William Dwyer
00:00:28
Speaker
I'm here today with Rear Admiral William Dwyer. Thanks for the opportunity to to be here, Joanna, and I appreciate the opportunity to talk to the Rutgers community.
00:00:40
Speaker
Can you tell us a little bit about your origin story, how you got to where you are today? Well, um I'm ah a Jersey kid. I grew up in Bridgewater, New Jersey, fifth of six kids.
00:00:52
Speaker
um so I went to high school at at St. Peter's Prep in Jersey City, so was used to a long trip from Bridgewater all the way, which back then was was a lot farther i probably than it was considered today.
00:01:05
Speaker
um Graduated from the prep and headed to the U.S. Coast Guard Academy. an opportunity. i I come from a military family. My father was Marine, so I looked for an opportunity to serve my country. I went off to ships in Guam and Hawaii and off to Navy Dive School.
00:01:20
Speaker
And then i was I wanted to go to law school. um I had a few different paths, but I wanted to go back to New Jersey to go to law school.
Choosing Rutgers Law School
00:01:27
Speaker
So I chose the opportunity to to go to Rutgers. That's great. Well, your history as a Jersey kid is something I can relate to. I'm also from New Jersey. I grew up in North Jersey and it wasn't until I started as Dean at Rutgers that I realized there's there's a big desire there's a big divide between North Jersey and South Jersey.
00:01:45
Speaker
But you mentioned ah that that you wanted to return to law school ah at Rutgers.
Balancing Work and Law School
00:01:52
Speaker
Can you tell us a little bit more about why you chose Rutgers specifically?
00:01:57
Speaker
Well, having grown up just up the road from New Brunswick in Bridgewater, I'd spent a lot of time there. A lot of friends had gone there, and I knew the reputation of the school as a terrific school. um I went ah kind of a different path than a lot of law students when I decided to go so at night. I wanted to keep working. I was a little older, so I had five years experience and chose to to take that route.
00:02:17
Speaker
um So an opportunity brought me to the area in terms of the jobs I worked for the Port Authority of York and New Jersey during that period of
Military Background and Legal Interest
00:02:27
Speaker
time. um So it gave me an opportunity to both advance a career while studying law at the same time.
00:02:34
Speaker
That's fantastic. and And I understand your background as part of a military family and why you'd have an interest in the military. Where does your interest in the law come from?
00:02:47
Speaker
Well, I think they're very Congress. I mean, in terms of the military, you know, we're about good order and discipline. And, you know, when you join the service, you take an oath to this the board and defend the Constitution. So you're you're very kind of steeped in the law. And and anyone who serves in the military kind of should understand that important, solemn,
00:03:06
Speaker
oath that they take. So for me, I'd always had an interest in political science as well, in history and and and government classes, both from my days in high school through college. So naturally really enjoyed that.
Night Classes and Teaching Experiences
00:03:19
Speaker
And then getting to law school, didn't really know what to expect. You know, you you read about what that's like. But I think, again, going at night is such a unique experience. And the fact that Rutgers offers that um It's not just a service the community, but it also just offers, it just broadens the whole community because it brings in a lot of folks who have some, often some job experience. And Rutgers really does it well where yeah I really blended. We blended with day students and got to know them really well. We were one of the first classes in the New Street building, which was pretty neat.
00:03:50
Speaker
And you really got to know a a lot of those those folks well. That's great. That's fantastic. Well, having taught some Knight students in my past, I do know that that they bring incredible life experience to the class and it it really enriches the class discussion. so So I completely agree with you. It's a really unique learning opportunity and and it enhances the teaching experience too.
00:04:16
Speaker
All right, so so let's do a softball round
Influential Classes and Professors
00:04:19
Speaker
robin. What was your favorite and least favorite class in law school? Well, I don't know if they had a least favorite, maybe one of the first year courses that was maybe a grind. But i I think not so much of subjects, but professors. Like I think of Frank Askin was a terrific professor that i had Gary Francione. I took his philosophy in the law class, which was very interesting.
00:04:43
Speaker
Again, we were when I was in law school, was shortly after, it was during 9-11 and then during that period afterwards. So just an interesting period of transition and where the country was. um and to really see the diversity of thought and opinion. and I think really the respect everyone had for a variety of opinions, which I hope still exists today really can say it existed there. Some folks showed up, were I wasn't the only one in the military, other folks were as well. And sometimes even evening students would show up in uniform if they needed to.
00:05:10
Speaker
And I think it was just a great community for that. And I would also say um Hal Braff. He was a an adjunct, famous probably more famous for his son being a the Scrubs guy on the Scrubs TV show. But Hal Braff was my negotiations professor. And I remember coming in the first day, just being a little late again, being was that i was um I think it was a four o'clock class. So it was one of those ones that really, you had a lot of crossover between day and evening students And being late the first day and i'm calling me out in front of 60 students and going up to them afterwards and kind of
00:05:44
Speaker
talking to him about it And he's like, oh, that was just an act. That was part of my class to really kind of get the class into it ah because it's all about
Rutgers Law Community
00:05:51
Speaker
negotiations, right? And he was just a really interesting ah professor. And what what I liked even more about it is he gave back to the community. He was a successful lawyer in a successful practice, but he grew up in New Jersey and he had a Rutgers tie and wanted to come back and serve that.
00:06:08
Speaker
And I've taken that myself. i've I'm an adjunct law professor at Miami Law School when i was from the time I was stationed down in South Florida, as well as the opportunity to teach at the School Public Policy at Texas A&M. So I've taken on that kind of approach to give back where you can and share your knowledge with with other folks. So I appreciate what Professor Braff did ah way back when.
00:06:33
Speaker
That's fantastic. And I think you're so right about that. Being an adjunct is is often a great way to give back to your community. and And I think a lot of times people really love the interaction with students.
00:06:44
Speaker
They can relate to having been a student and and they enjoy that connection and relationship with the students. So I'm thrilled to hear that you're you're doing some of that teaching yourself. and that you had a great experience while you were at Rutgers Law School. That's great. I had no idea that we had a connection to the Braff family, but I think you're right that that at least his son is well known for the the TV role in Scrubs.
00:07:09
Speaker
ah Okay, great. So favorite place to eat nearby? ah Definitely McGovern's. It was, again, being an evening student, we had we made sure that we set up certain days. Thursday was the night everyone would go to McGovern's.
00:07:24
Speaker
But we also ensured that we were a full functioning part of the law school. We had an evening students association. We also, some of us participated in student bar as well to and to ensure that that part of the community really flowed to the evening students. so we made sure we we built that.
00:07:40
Speaker
And McGovern's always great. It was a a great atmosphere, I understand. So I haven't been back in years. Would love to go back next time I'm in Newark. um But it's a it was ah a great spot to go. um and really, ah ah it was always fun to unwind after a hard weekend. Again, as you said before, the evening students have a variety of experiences.
00:07:59
Speaker
It's in different jobs. And, you know, we had folks with a ah ah myriad of different things they did from from being from teachers to real estate to to you name it. But that would get us all together talking about what we learned that week and where what else we were doing. So that again, that a variety of opinions and variety of thought was always ah fun to come together over a few beers and wings on a Thursday night.
Favorite Newark Spots
00:08:22
Speaker
That's fantastic. That's a great tradition. and And I understand McGovern's is still very much a part of the life of the law school, although I have not yet made it there. So I feel like I don't have, I don't really have credibility until I've got to go had a beer at McGovern's. right So that's on my list.
00:08:37
Speaker
Well, good. Okay, great. go Favorite place in Newark? I'd probably say Penn Station. So I, um as I said before, I commuted from Bridgewater into Jersey City and you had to go through Newark Station to catch the PATH train.
00:08:52
Speaker
And then when I was in law school as well, sometimes catching the Newark City subway back when it wasn't the nice light rail that is today, back when it was the old, those 50s subway cars that were still plying their way through the the streets of Newark. So, and it's such a beautiful building, right? And that has so such a great history ah to the city of Newark and it it you know knowing ah how how old the city is and all the ah wonderful things that have taken place in it. And it's such a it's an institution still today and it's it's well utilized for the public folks the folks taking public transportation.
00:09:26
Speaker
It's still a necessary and important ah jewel the city.
Lessons Learned at Rutgers
00:09:29
Speaker
Absolutely. it's it In addition to being very functional, it's also just beautiful. I agree completely. um I'm still learning the history around the city of Newark, but but it's a city that is incredibly rich in history and um and it's nice to slowly discover that.
00:09:45
Speaker
Okay, great. So let me ask you, what was the most important thing you learned at Rutgers Law? And it may be it may be difficult to identify just one thing, but but if you ah had to focus on one thing that really transformed your thinking, what what would that be?
00:10:02
Speaker
Well, I would say a few things. It helped me refine time management. and you know Having been in the military and having got a service academy, really kind of had developed pretty good time management, but then add on top of it a job and trying to take a load of classes. i was you know i I'm um married, so I think we were in our fourth or fifth year, i want to say, maybe third year when I started law school of marriage. And by the time we graduated, we had twins.
00:10:27
Speaker
So just ah um all those things bounced into one just to realize making every minute of the day count. And you really had to be able to do that. And I'd also add just the ability to like think, to further think critically.
00:10:39
Speaker
ah Lawyers play such an important role in any organization as those that speak truth to power. And I can say the same in the military. I've had some, a variety of different assignments, but you know, and one of my more recent assignments was the general counsel or chief counsel for U s Southern command as the staff judge advocate or senior lawyer.
00:10:57
Speaker
So you're often in the room giving your best military advice to a commander, but you're there to counsel and be counsel and counselor at the same time. And you're one of the few people in the room that often doesn't have a ah vested interest besides what you think is right based on you know law and policy, as opposed to, say, someone, if we're thinking about an operation, the operations officer probably may have a different opinion perhaps than I do, or the engineer may have a different opinion, but often the lawyer will help think critically and bring that unique perspective.
00:11:28
Speaker
And that's why the the role of a lawyer is so critical in any new organization. and And those in whether you're in business or politics or the military, being able to utilize your lawyer in the right way is it ah is an amazing tool in your arsenal. And if you're not using that right, you're probably missing you know in ah an important point of view.
Military Justice System Changes
00:11:48
Speaker
Great. Well said. ah That's fantastic. Okay. So can you tell us a little bit about what your current role entails in the U.S. Coast Guard as as its first chief prosecutor?
00:12:01
Speaker
Okay. So in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2022, Congress changed the Uniform Code Military Justice. Uniform Code of Military Justice has been around since 1951. It came in the aftermath of World War to kind of make it and and lack the better word, uniform, in terms of how we applied justice and investigations to military members accused of offenses.
00:12:25
Speaker
um And again, if you're a military member, you're subject to a ah unique set of laws under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It looks a lot like civil law, um but when you're in uniform and you're you're you're subject to that twenty four hours seven days a week as an active duty member. So Congress, basically based on how they perceived the response to allegations of sex assault in the military, decided to change the way in which the decisions were made to move forward with prosecuting cases.
00:12:57
Speaker
So previously, Since the found founding of the UCMJ in 1951, commanding officers as convening authorities of court marshals had the authority to decide, based on legal advice, whether a case moved forward or not when they were they would be given you know legal legal counsel based on probable cause to decide whether ah case would move forward or not.
00:13:20
Speaker
Congress was not satisfied with some of the some of the way, either for time or outcome or victim's rights and decided that they were going to to change the law. And when they did, what what they created was a system where there will be special trial counsel, and that's folks who will reside outside of the regular military chain of command and will provide um ah prosecution for certain offenses.
00:13:46
Speaker
Now, there are a number of offenses. There's 13, and there'll be a 14th year and in 2024. But they mainly deal with your most serious victim-centric crimes.
00:13:58
Speaker
So think murder, kidnapping, stalking. But the ones that were most important to Congress were really, I think, the sex with assault, anything from more serious rape down to ah unlawful touching, for example, may fall under that as well. So those cases now will be decided through my office, for the Coast Guard anyway, through my office ah office of Chief Prosecutor.
00:14:22
Speaker
The Department of Defense has established these offices of Special Trial Counsel as well, the other four but Department of Defense services. We work very closely in a joint environment as we look to build our policies and procedures in taking on these miled these milestone changes to the UCMJ.
00:14:40
Speaker
So what think is as of December 28th of this year is when this will go into effect. And then from that point on, any of those victim-centric crimes, which I described, will be investigated and then prosecuted.
00:14:54
Speaker
And the decision to move forward will will reside with a military judge, advocate, or lawyer versus a convening authority. and and And furthermore, for the Coast Guard, what's different is we're also we'll also prosecute all the non-covered offenses. but And by that, I mean other offenses under the Uniform Code of Military Justice that are not covered in these victim-centric crimes. So think of assault or fraud, for example, or or other military crimes.
00:15:17
Speaker
We would prosecute those offenses.
Leadership in Military Roles
00:15:21
Speaker
That's fascinating. And it sounds like a significant change in in terms of the process. So do you anticipate that that taking those decisions outside the chain of command will will have an impact on on how those cases are handled?
00:15:34
Speaker
Well, I think what one of the issues is there's a perception, and I don't comment on whether it's true or not, there's a perception of a loss of trust or transparency to some extent. The idea is Congress wanted to put that in the hands of experienced judge advocates because they may have the the the time, experience, education to make these decisions.
00:15:56
Speaker
And in a lot of ways, it will it will look like and appear like a district attorney's office in some ways where that decision really will reside with a lawyer on evaluating a case and ah and in all the elements and the information.
00:16:12
Speaker
and presented to decide whether a case moved forward. Previously, again, it would be a commander who would get who would get advice from a a lawyer, but ultimately they would own that decision.
00:16:24
Speaker
um And that I believe that my perception, again, is that the feeling among ah amongst amongst Congress is that a ah judge advocate may be less persuaded by other things besides the facts and the evidence when they would decide to move forward or not with a with a case.
00:16:42
Speaker
That's fascinating. I appreciate you explaining those developments in the law. ah I know that this isn't your first time stepping into a newly created role. You were also the first Coast Guard officer assigned as staff judge advocate for u s Southern Command in Doral, Florida.
00:16:57
Speaker
How do you tackle these positions that that didn't really exist before you filled them? You're sort of creating a new position as you go. How does that work? Well, unlike the position I'm in today, that position the position that exists, I was just the first one from my my service ever to fill that role, which was unique for us. Again, amongst the military services, the Coast Guard is the smallest by far, 42,000 active duty.
00:17:22
Speaker
It also has a unique role in the military in that we are the only military service that resides outside of the Department of Defense. And that's because of the nature of what the Coast Guard does. It's always a Title 10 military service, Title 10 Code.
00:17:36
Speaker
but um But it also is a regulatory agency. It's a maritime law enforcement agency. It's a member of the intelligence community. Wears many hats for a small organization. So sometimes some of these larger, higher profile ah joint jobs, and by joint I mean once among among the many services, are not often provided to us. So I was fortunate enough to interview for that job i with a a Navy Admiral.
00:18:01
Speaker
And he took a chance on me and gave me that opportunity and wound up serving there for four years and really greatly enjoyed that opportunity, learned a lot from that. But I think in going into any any new job, obviously, the first thing you have to go in is to be humble and realize you have a lot to learn and and and realize that you will you will gain the respect of your teammates when you show that you know that level of humility when you when you walk through the door. And then you know working, being able to work as a member of a team um and and and and lead your folks and and and take chances where you need to.
00:18:35
Speaker
So again, going in, finding out what the job has to be done, it but and ensuring that the right answer doesn't always need to come from you. It'll come from the team. And if you build a team correctly, you'll be able to build that trust and that communication amongst your teammates.
00:18:51
Speaker
So not only in in that previous job at U.S. Southern Command, but in my current job now, just yeah working hard to ensure we have the the procedures and policies in place to do our job, but also ensure that we have the trust amongst the team.
00:19:06
Speaker
And again, i can't really um overstate the the role that humility plays in in building that that team right, and especially as the senior leader. when they When they know you that you don't always have all the answers, but it provides ah your team with somewhat comfort as well, because they know they're working together to to solve those problems ah with you.
Balancing Legal and Military Duties
00:19:26
Speaker
Absolutely. Great advice. As someone who stepped into a new role very recently and and built a leadership team, i I completely agree with you. And that really resonates. Yes, that the necessary humility and and reliance on and really strong team members. Absolutely true. yeah Yeah, you really can't. I think you have to realize that asking questions is a good thing, and especially as a as a leader of an organization. And and it it allows people to demonstrate their knowledge to you. It also helps to make you better and what you do every day um as well. And it really goes a long way, again, to build that cohesion and to to ensure that that the team can can function properly in not just good times, but when you're hit hit with adverse times as well.
00:20:17
Speaker
Right, absolutely. and And to be comfortable with not knowing the answer to all of the questions, particularly when you step into a new role, I think is really important. As someone with a both a legal and a military background, do you balance the responsibilities of upholding the law while also fulfilling your military duties?
00:20:39
Speaker
Well, I think that those two things are very much congruent. The fact is, as I said earlier, any you know, merit especially an officer in the U.S. military, you take an oath to support and defend the Constitution. So you're well aware of the law.
00:20:52
Speaker
um and you're well aware of the chain of command and what role that plays. An interesting balance is as an attorney though, because having spent a little time when I was, ah so stepping back from my own career, I did spend a little time with ah but and and a New York maritime firm when I first got out of law school before I went back on active duty for a period of time.
00:21:16
Speaker
And you you what you understand is and As you all know from your experience in law, law firms are often flat organizations, right? In a sense that whether you're the managing partner or associate, you should be able to communicate rapidly and quickly across those echelons quickly.
00:21:31
Speaker
So because that's the only way you're going to be successful. And to bring that to a military construct is is somewhat challenging because I find when I talk to my team, I want to know what they think and I want to know where they're going on on certain projects. and but but we also have to be sensitive that that there is a chain of command in place at all times. So it is a balance, but I think the two go hand in hand, especially the fact that as as in my current role as a military justice practitioner,
00:22:00
Speaker
we're really the sentinels of good order and discipline in our service. The reason why people join the military is because it is something different. They're, they're you know, subject, subjugate themselves to this different system.
00:22:13
Speaker
And that system is really upheld through the role of of ah military judge advocates, because they're the only ones who can, can, can have this function or this process. And I say that because I, in my current role now, and I'm talking about,
00:22:28
Speaker
you know opportunities or ah resources, the the really the only reason the lawyers existed in the military was really to carry out the function of ensuring good or good order and discipline to the military justice process.
00:22:41
Speaker
Now, over time, they've grown to a rather large national security apparatus, for example, all very, very important roles. but not required. The only real required role under the law and that Congress has demanded is to be involved in in and be there the military justice practice, both from prosecution as well as and we use them for defense practice as well.
00:23:01
Speaker
Great, great. Well, you may or may not be able to answer this, Bill, but but what's your next move? What's your next career move? And what's your ultimate goal? I don't know. I'm i'm just ah honored and humbled to be able to lead the team that I just stepped into.
00:23:18
Speaker
We'll see where where where that where that where that leads. um And just and i again, it's it's a real special feeling to be able to wear the cloth for a nation every day.
00:23:29
Speaker
And like I really mean it in the sense that I've been doing this for 28 years. I've been in associated with the military. And if you count my academy time, I guess more than that.
00:23:39
Speaker
And I still love it. I still love the opportunity to be able to put on a uniform and and serve with a team. and i I think that's definitely something more rare today.
00:23:50
Speaker
than than ever before and that folks move around different jobs and have, you know, job satisfaction is what it is. But I really enjoyed and enjoy what I'm doing. and I'll do it as long as they let me. On a personal front, I've just dropped off my my kids in in college. I have twin girls. And again, they started this journey with me. I was just about finishing law school and I just dropped one off at the Naval Academy one at the University of Virginia. So I'm excited to see how they do over the next few years as well. Like anything else in life,
00:24:18
Speaker
keeping balance is important and for me that that balance of family as well as my my position and my role, my responsibilities in the Coast Guard are two things like I take very
Advice for Aspiring Military Lawyers
00:24:28
Speaker
seriously. and Again, and and my wife and I are getting to know each other a little more, again, now that now that we're empty nesters.
00:24:34
Speaker
Right. I'm sure. I'm sure that's true. Well, your your approach to leadership is so thoughtful. i really appreciate knowing that that you are in the position that you're in. and And I hope that wherever the next step is, where whatever it leads you to, that you'll stay in touch with Rutgers Law School. We're very proud to count you among our alums.
00:24:54
Speaker
ah So speaking of Rutgers Law School, what advice would you give to law students who aspire to pursue a career in the military or or combine legal knowledge with a military profession?
00:25:05
Speaker
I think that provides great opportunity. um From a practical perspective, it can be ah a method to fund undergraduate or law school, so to say through the post-911 GI Bill is a great example.
00:25:18
Speaker
ah um But from from another point of view, it it provides this amazing leadership laboratory that really only exists in the military in that we take young people and we put them in positions of ah great responsibility um early on and test their ability to do that. um And they... and they and For generations and for generations to come, they succeed in that. So I think it it provides a great opportunity. And whether you choose to it to be a career as I've done or whether you serve and decide to go back and and serve in some other way in your community or your hometown, it provides you a great basis for that and an experience to do that.
00:25:55
Speaker
I believe, i think service is important and it comes in many forms. I'm im married to a elementary high school teacher. Erin's traveled everywhere we've lived. We've lived um all over the world in our career from Hawaii to Guam to Alaska to Germany to throughout the U.S. And she's taught in those different places and kind of showed me that, again, service comes in many forms. And I think that's important to remember that you can serve your community ah in many forms. I'd also state that, you know, the opportunity to serve in the military is
Memorable Military Diving Experiences
00:26:30
Speaker
a privilege. And I i think are the the oxygen or the lifeblood of our democracy really requires those to step up and and want to and want to serve. And again, in a variety of roles, I've chosen military, but it's important that we realize that
00:26:45
Speaker
you know The military reminds us that it's not all about us and it's not always about a paycheck, but it's about a purpose. um And to have purpose is so important um in in a ah ah fulfilled life.
00:27:01
Speaker
That's absolutely true. and And I love your observation that public service comes in many forms. I think that that is true. and And your wife is a great example of that. I think i think our our teachers are certainly providing a public service.
00:27:14
Speaker
um And many lawyers will be tapped to be leaders within their communities, whether it's within their local bar association or within their law firms or the legal aid agency that they're working in.
00:27:25
Speaker
I think that that Rutgers does a very good job of preparing people for positions of leadership. And we certainly talk explicitly about the value of public service. So so what you have said just now really resonates with with me and with the Rutgers mission.
00:27:40
Speaker
um I also love the concept of a leadership laboratory. That's that's great. I think that that we're we're providing that in in some different ways um here on campus as well.
00:27:51
Speaker
So those those observations are are really astute observations about ah law and leadership. I wanna ask you about something completely unrelated now. And that is, I know you're trained as a military diver.
00:28:05
Speaker
So can you tell us about the the hairiest dive situation that you've encountered? um Well, I think, so for me, I went to dive school back in 1998 and I was trained as a salvage diver.
00:28:16
Speaker
um So basically what we would do is, is We would do inspections of ships at depth. But for the Coast Guard, we particularly use them for then rather what some people consider a mundane tasks. If you notice when you've ever run on a boat, you'll see these buoys floating in the water. Well, they're connected to chain and they're connected to these giant 5,000 to 10,000 pound rocks.
00:28:38
Speaker
And anyone's studied liquids or other engineering, you know that as water passes, it breaks those down over time. So every few years, you'll need to change out the the chain as well as the the the shackle as well as the the rock at the bottom. When I say rock, it's 5,000 to 10,000 pound piece of concrete.
00:28:58
Speaker
You'll be changing that out. So it's probably, i think we were diving in In midway, i would probably say, and it was a ah ah pretty good surge in that usually when you're diving at depth, you try to control your depth to some extent.
00:29:15
Speaker
And this is one where there's probably like a 20 to 25 foot swell as you're working underwater. It just takes a higher level of concentration. That would be one. Another interesting one is we did net retrieval. So the Northwest Hawaiian Islands, for those who know geology, the Hawaiian Islands are on a huge tectonic plate that as it moves across, it forms more islands. That's why if you look at a map of the world, you'll see the Hawaiian Islands trail off because that over millennia, that's how the islands have formed. And the island of Hawaii is still growing today. It's accreting as you see the volcano erupt.
00:29:47
Speaker
um So we would go to the Northwest Hawaiian Islands, which are uninhabited. and we would retrieve net. And because what happens is fishermen often, commercial fishermen especially, they would just cut their nets and let them drift.
00:29:58
Speaker
They would get caught in these huge um area coral beds and then animals would get you stuck in them. So marine mammals, for example, would get stuck in them. Think Hawaiian monk seal, which is a dangerous species.
00:30:12
Speaker
So doing that was an amazing trip just for what we saw, but also what we experienced underwater as well because you're in these... areas that not many people in the world ever get to visit or
Gratitude and Mentorship
00:30:23
Speaker
see.
00:30:23
Speaker
Um, so there's these beautiful, beautiful places and and the the, the sea life that's down there from tiger sharks to you name it that are around you are, are, are pretty amazing, uh, in terms of, uh, in, in terms of, um, what you can, um, uh, what, what you see and what you experience.
00:30:42
Speaker
Um, yeah, that, those, those are probably the two neater ones I can think of. There was no, um, Yeah, did some hull inspections from time to time looking for certain things, but i that's that's about it.
00:30:59
Speaker
But I guess I would say, though, on teamwork piece is just as important there as well because you work in a team, especially the way the dive team works is, you know, we're all on the Navy trained, so Coast Guard divers go to Navy dive schools. That's what our hoo-yah and deep-sea Navy diver But we all train together, but you learn to you learn how to plan a mission, execute a mission, deep reef mission together and ensure that everyone who's going out is able to successfully complete the mission, come home safe, and that they're not impacted, say, medically from from their dive. again, that's part of the whole planning your dive to depth to ensure that folks are are safe along the way and they get back to the surface without any ah further repercussions.
00:31:39
Speaker
Right. That makes sense. that That's fantastic. and And I wonder, ah have you seen the movie about the Thai soccer team that that needed rescuing by professional divers? Yeah, the cave dive. Yes, yes.
00:31:53
Speaker
ah Anxiety inducing movie. but Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Indeed. So on a record, couple of times recreationally we were able to dive into some ships.
00:32:05
Speaker
We never planned that from ah from a professional diving perspective, but recreationally got to do that. And a part of the world out called Chuk in Micronesia, which is where but the Mariana's Turkey shoot in World War II. It's a famous battle where the U.S. actually sunk part of the Japanese fleet right there in <unk>lagoon ah they still had ships with japanese zeroes still intact in a ship and you could dive into the ship and actually sit in the cockpit of one of these airc underwater. It was again, just an amaz to visit. Also no sacred space in the sense that you were trying not to dis it, but a chance to really touch history
00:32:43
Speaker
That's incredible. What an incredible experience. That's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your service and and thank you for for speaking with us today. You're you're a shining example of what our alumni go on to do. So I appreciate you visiting with us and and I hope that some prospective students or current students have the opportunity to to learn from your insights.
00:33:05
Speaker
So thank you again for joining us. Absolutely. Thank you for this opportunity. Congratulations on on your new role. And again, yeah, if any students or prospective students have interest in the military, want to talk about being a judge advocate, always willing to connect them, speak to them, manner them in that process.
00:33:23
Speaker
Thank you again. Well, thank you. All right. Take care.
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00:33:26
Speaker
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00:33:43
Speaker
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