Transcript
Felicia Devine: Hello, and welcome back to episode 15. Hi, Natalie.
Natalie Richards: Hi, Felicia.
Felicia Devine: Yay.
Natalie Richards: Here we are yet again. loving getting to talk to you again. know.
Felicia Devine: I know. at had a patient in yesterday that was like, where's the podcast been? And I'm like, oh, you don't say.
Natalie Richards: i know
Felicia Devine: I said, funny enough, we actually just resumed. And she's like, well, I haven't looked because it was so long. So she was like, I didn't know.
Natalie Richards: I know.
Felicia Devine: So um people are starting to find us again.
Natalie Richards: know. I had so many people.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: They were like, my gosh, I saw that there was another episode posted. I go, yes, there was.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: So now I was like, you lucky ducks, you're going to three in a row.
Felicia Devine: We're back at it
Natalie Richards: oh
Felicia Devine: Yeah. It is fun to be back at it though.
Natalie Richards: along
Felicia Devine: i We love this so much.
Natalie Richards: It is. i i do love doing it. It is like we do take our breaks because sometimes we are forced or have to.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yes. We do need our summer siestas and our winter hiatus and and our fall break and spring fling, you know?
Natalie Richards: oh In our winters.
Natalie Richards: a late spring.
Natalie Richards: So, you know, we we' record when we can.
Felicia Devine: Yes.
Natalie Richards: um But it's fun. It's really fun doing it. And I miss you. And i don't get to see you.
Felicia Devine: I know.
Felicia Devine: I know. We really do need to plan our trip in real time.
Natalie Richards: We do. We have to do something. i just saw I just saw a post about this.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: Well, a couple things. I saw somebody posting about a wellness like detox retreat in Germany. And I was like, maybe.
Felicia Devine: Okay. Maybe we do that.
Natalie Richards: And then and then another yeah
Felicia Devine: Is that a business expense? yes
Natalie Richards: and other post of this couple who had checked into this like all-inclusive Montana resort. And also, yes.
Felicia Devine: Cute.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. So it's like, oh, maybe we do something like wellness retreat-y kind of like that.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Okay. I'm down.
Natalie Richards: We'll have to have to.
Felicia Devine: Well, but we have to call it business.
Natalie Richards: No, it is.
Felicia Devine: Wait, we should bring our photographer.
Natalie Richards: It's research and development.
Felicia Devine: It's branding.
Natalie Richards: It's branding. It's it's.
Felicia Devine: It's coming up with content. It's doing it. Wait, what's the trendy thing right now?
Natalie Richards: You know what we need to do? we need to add we need to add each other to our like our board members.
Felicia Devine: Do it for the plot.
Natalie Richards: It's what we need to do.
Felicia Devine: You could be my secretary.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. we need to And then we have to have an annual meeting.
Felicia Devine: Yes, there you go. you know how much my lawyer charges me for that annual meeting?
Natalie Richards: Not a bad idea. oh my God. i know.
Felicia Devine: I'm mortified by the cost or I'm the only one to attend.
Natalie Richards: The meeting that I don't Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: And they send it to me via email and they charge me hundreds of dollars.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: And I'm the one that's the owner, the president, vice president, secretary, treasurer.
Natalie Richards: Owner, president.
Felicia Devine: i'm like, this is a little redundant and also highly expensive to keep doing every year.
Natalie Richards: But then would I actually do it myself?
Felicia Devine: No, because then I would, that yeah, and then the IRS would come after me.
Natalie Richards: No. No. Right. So i and I'm continuing.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Okay.
Felicia Devine: I'm continuing. But I'll be your secretary.
Natalie Richards: but I was just I mean why not we are we we are each other's advisors anyway
Felicia Devine: I'll be your vice president. Yeah. Speaking of business, did you ever fill out that small business thing that was like, if you don't fill it out, we're like reclaiming your property.
Natalie Richards: right
Felicia Devine: Like it was a small business sheet you had to fill out in 2025.
Natalie Richards: maybe yeah I feel like I did i know i oh I know what you're talking about yes
Felicia Devine: brand new Like my lawyer must've sent me 10 notifications being like, if you don't fill this out, like add news bears.
Natalie Richards: Yes, you will. Yes, I know what you're talking about. huh Was that really?
Felicia Devine: Oh, that was so.
Natalie Richards: but then I feel like something came out that it was like unconstitutional and then we didn't have to.
Felicia Devine: Wasn't it a census, a business census? I think that's what it was.
Natalie Richards: and there was something, something about it was weird.
Felicia Devine: You know, that's above my pay grade.
Natalie Richards: Like you tell me I'm going to go to jail.
Felicia Devine: So I'll forward that right to my manager.
Natalie Richards: OK, I'll fill it out. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Who's my sister? like, Alex, help.
Natalie Richards: Help me.
Felicia Devine: What does this mean? The other day I had to literally email her and be like, Alex, what is this insurance charge?
Natalie Richards: Oh, my gosh.
Felicia Devine: And she's like, let me look through because we had to have business insurance, umbrella insurance, malpractice insurance, workman's comp insurance, short-term disability insurance.
Natalie Richards: Mm hmm.
Natalie Richards: Mm hmm. hmm.
Felicia Devine: And I said, Alex, what it what is this premium insurance?
Natalie Richards: It's kind of ridiculous.
Felicia Devine: I don't know what this is.
Natalie Richards: hmm. Mm hmm.
Felicia Devine: I forget.
Natalie Richards: At a certain point, when do we say that we just kind of like start putting money into a pool?
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: That just helps share business health, business sharing, business business insurance.
Felicia Devine: but Where's the Christian healthcare of businesses? Should we start that?
Felicia Devine: Business sharing, small business sharing.
Natalie Richards: i don't know.
Felicia Devine: Wait, we should do that.
Natalie Richards: It's because this is crazy to like 10 different places.
Felicia Devine: I pay so much in insurance.
Natalie Richards: And I'm like, this can't right.
Felicia Devine: In case someone trips in my parking lot or a worker staples her finger shot.
Natalie Richards: Right. Mm hmm.
Felicia Devine: I don't know.
Natalie Richards: Right. Right. I don't know. that How do you get injured at a job when you're sitting there?
Felicia Devine: I don't know.
Felicia Devine: i don't know.
Natalie Richards: I don't know.
Felicia Devine: I don't, I don't know.
Natalie Richards: But we pay for it.
Felicia Devine: Did I ever tell you about the UPS truck that like smashed my sign?
Natalie Richards: Yes, you did. it was like in passing. I never really heard.
Felicia Devine: Oh, I was like, speaking of who paid for that, but I honestly forgot, but I didn't process it through insurance because the manager of, was it FedEx?
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: He was on my tail. He goes, let me bring you a check. I will bring it right now.
Natalie Richards: There you go. They don't want to.
Felicia Devine: What's the cost? Let me bring you a check.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: I will bring it to you right now.
Natalie Richards: Yep. They don't want to deal with it.
Felicia Devine: Where are you? Where are you? the check Yeah.
Natalie Richards: m
Felicia Devine: He paid like that. Like he was begging me to pay.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: Like he wanted to pay for the sign.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: And I was like, they didn't even come to take it yet.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: um
Natalie Richards: now
Felicia Devine: ah But that didn't even go through insurance.
Natalie Richards: ah They don't even want to deal with any sort of liability.
Felicia Devine: So I'm like, well, No.
Natalie Richards: They say, no, let me just pay you.
Felicia Devine: No.
Natalie Richards: And we call it a day.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Oh, my God.
Felicia Devine: And it was in early December and I think they wanted to get it done before like end of year. i don't know. like Let's get this claim filed in 2025.
Natalie Richards: Oh, my God.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: That's funny.
Felicia Devine: yeah yeah Oh, you know what's interesting?
Felicia Devine: I'm trying to hire a new person. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: For like, like, Francesca.
Felicia Devine: Front desk. Okay. So I always like survey my patient database before I go public.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: Right.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: I'm like internally, who do we have? Cause a lot of my people have always come internally.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: um because a they value the practice B they value me and like, yeah, they know it works.
Natalie Richards: They know how it works.
Felicia Devine: They're like of the mindset of like holistic.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: And so I've been so not stalking, but I've been like wanting to ask this girl, And she is so darn cute. She's like, i think she's like 17.
Natalie Richards: Oh.
Felicia Devine: She's so precious. She is so funny. She is always asking my girls like, oh is it fun to work here? Like, oh what do you guys do?
Natalie Richards: Cute.
Felicia Devine: did Did you need a degree to like work here? and the girls are like, nope.
Natalie Richards: Oh. Definitely not.
Felicia Devine: No prior experience necessary.
Natalie Richards: definitely not
Felicia Devine: And she is Mennonite. We have a ton of men at night patients.
Natalie Richards: Okay.
Felicia Devine: And I'm like, well, this might be actually really good to kind of like bridge that cultural gap of like – is it Duke?
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Natalie Richards: Dude, this dog is just killing me. if
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. I got him a new bed and of course I put it right next to me. Whatever.
Felicia Devine: Oh, I can't hear anything.
Natalie Richards: Okay, good
Felicia Devine: um So it was I was like, oh, this could be our opportunity to like bridge the cultural gap to like have insider perspective and like help kind of transition more of those families under care and like things like that.
Natalie Richards: good.
Natalie Richards: Totally.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: um Because there is like a large gap in like how we operate day to day versus like how maybe a conservative Mennonite family would operate day to day.
Natalie Richards: Definitely.
Felicia Devine: um And I'm like, okay, how would you like to work here? Like thinking she was just going like, I would love to. Like i I was like certain she was to say that because she is so cute and sweet and like so jazzed about it.
Natalie Richards: It's like asking somebody to prom. Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Yeah, yeah.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: And I was like, oh, she's in today. I'm going to ask her. So this is like two visits ago. And I asked her, I was like, would you like to work here? And she was like, well, I don't think like mom would go for that. But like, let me ask. And I said, okay, yeah, absolutely.
Natalie Richards: hu
Felicia Devine: Because she's like still living at home and like stuff like that.
Natalie Richards: oh
Felicia Devine: So she she came in yesterday. I'm like, all right, what did mom say? And she was like, yeah, mom's not going for that. And I was like, oh, I was like, well, what is the like holdback?
Natalie Richards: Oh no.
Felicia Devine: I was like, you know, I'm curious because like, what was, what was the final decision like or like, what was like the line?
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Yeah. Is it me? Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Cause you know, i wear, um, normal like street clothes to work.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: Right. But like my staff were scrubs. So i was like, you know, that's still very like modest and covered.
Natalie Richards: ah
Felicia Devine: And I don't show up to work not modest.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Yeah. No.
Felicia Devine: Right. Like I wear modest clothing, but like I wear jeans or pants.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: I wear things with holes in it. i show my elbows.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: um I show my feet. But i was like, ah so like, what's the line?
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: And she was like, well, you guys use internet. And I was like, okay, that I wasn't expecting that one.
Natalie Richards: Ooh.
Felicia Devine: So we use internet, we text, and then um we listen to music.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Oh.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. And I was like, okay, I totally understand. I didn't know that.
Natalie Richards: Fair enough.
Felicia Devine: i didn't know that was the line. I thought it was going to be more like clothing.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Right.
Felicia Devine: um But I was so bummed. I was like, well, I would love to have you.
Natalie Richards: Oh.
Felicia Devine: i would really like to have you, but it just wasn't going to work out.
Natalie Richards: Fair enough.
Felicia Devine: And I get it.
Natalie Richards: Fair enough.
Felicia Devine: i get it.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Like, if that's not your values, I totally understand.
Natalie Richards: Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh, yeah.
Felicia Devine: but But they love coming as patients. So I'm like,
Natalie Richards: That's great.
Felicia Devine: We can continue that.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: They just can't be the ones on the internet.
Natalie Richards: That's so funny. Darn it.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: At least it wasn't you. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: But i'm I'm trying to get them to listen to my podcast. But they, I mean, I don't think they can.
Natalie Richards: Wait, but what about the, well, like there's varying degrees. I thought you said that there was like another Mennonite patient that had started a podcast.
Felicia Devine: there's varying levels of conservativeness.
Natalie Richards: Right? Yeah. Everybody has. Right.
Felicia Devine: Is that the word? Conservativeness?
Natalie Richards: Sure.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. um It's based, I think their level of like um dress and what is appropriate to them is is dictated by like the church they go to.
Felicia Devine: And so a different church can have completely separate viewpoints and values and morals and things like that of like what is considered appropriate.
Natalie Richards: Sure.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: um But yeah. So it's it's just, it was disappointing because I thought I i thought i had her and she was, I mean, she is so lovely, but yeah.
Natalie Richards: Dang. Dang. We have a Mennonite farm right down the street from us. Did you know that?
Felicia Devine: Do you?
Natalie Richards: yeah They are.
Felicia Devine: They're so lovely.
Natalie Richards: they like build these like structures.
Felicia Devine: we
Natalie Richards: They build sheds and they have hundreds
Felicia Devine: and oh
Natalie Richards: like a hundred sheds that they've built out in the front that they sell.
Felicia Devine: Oh, like pre prefabricated.
Natalie Richards: And then they have like, yeah. And then they have like a cute little farm stand that we stop at. It's cute.
Felicia Devine: cute. That's awesome. Yeah, I would say probably like, I want to say like 60 to 70% of my practice is Mennonite.
Natalie Richards: That's crazy.
Felicia Devine: Uh-huh. Yeah. And, like, honestly, it probably could be more if I changed the way I operate a little bit more.
Natalie Richards: oh my gosh. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Like, if i've leaned more into the, like,
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: um I don't know, like, we didn't play music or something.
Natalie Richards: Non-technological.
Felicia Devine: You know, like, yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: But –
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: but you know i didn't I didn't even know that population in Arizona. We didn't have a Mennonite population.
Natalie Richards: No, it doesn't exist.
Felicia Devine: We had more men in Arizona um more predominantly.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: So i just i when I opened the practice, it wasn't like I was like aiming for one thing or another.
Natalie Richards: yeah
Felicia Devine: but
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: just They're great at like direct referaling because they're all very close in community.
Natalie Richards: just happened. Yeah. No kidding. No kidding.
Felicia Devine: um Yeah, so that was –
Natalie Richards: And they're very into natural health, of course, and and not using the medical system as much.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Exactly. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: So, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: That's lovely. Great, great retention. um
Natalie Richards: Home birthers for the most part, right?
Felicia Devine: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: Yeah, unless there's some reason why they can't.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Herbal stuff.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: They don't do much homeopathy.
Natalie Richards: Really?
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: Because of the technology it requires to create it
Felicia Devine: Possibly and possibly because there isn't much.
Natalie Richards: just unknown yeah interesting but when you have herbs you can you know utilize that interesting yeah because I feel like that would align so well but it does require I mean it does require yeah machinery to and like technology to create it so I wonder if that's the problem mm-hmm
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah. and who yeah Yeah. So I've tried to reel some of them into homeopathy. Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm. Right. The holdup. Yeah. um Speaking of homeopathy, short segue.
Natalie Richards: yes yes
Felicia Devine: Today we had Giuseppe's first hosted group ride at the pump track.
Natalie Richards: Yes. Oh my gosh.
Felicia Devine: It was so fun.
Natalie Richards: Oh my gosh. He's so cute.
Felicia Devine: So we we had a couple of families that I personally knew, but then for whatever reason, it was like Friday morning at the pump track was like a destination for children.
Natalie Richards: Really?
Felicia Devine: There was like 12 kids at one point.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: And it wasn't because of me. My dad was like, did you invite all these people?
Natalie Richards: no
Felicia Devine: i was like, no, I promise.
Natalie Richards: so
Felicia Devine: Like, I'm not that cool. um Like we had tons of interest, but it was very last minute for some people.
Natalie Richards: yeah
Felicia Devine: But yeah, At one point, somebody like one of the other kids fell or something. And I brought my travel homeopathy kit.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: So it has like 24 something like some amount of like the pellets, the boiron.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: So i'm like, I pull it out. and i'm like, if anybody needs this, just know I have my travel kit.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: And this this other mom that was at a different like table, but she was there with her family and some other friends. She was like, oh, are you a homeschooler? I go, what?
Felicia Devine: She goes, are you a homeschooler? I saw that you brought like homeopathy.
Natalie Richards: It does kind of go handin hand in hand.
Felicia Devine: go um I go, not yet. My son's only two, but the future is bright. um It might be for me.
Natalie Richards: oh
Felicia Devine: And she was like, oh, cool. like Do you have a practice or do you work somewhere? And I was like, oh, I own the Wave Collective. And she was like, oh, I have friends that go there. like We've heard of you guys.
Natalie Richards: Oh, how cute.
Felicia Devine: And I was like, huh, who knew? it was going be marketing marketing at Friday Morning Group Rod.
Natalie Richards: Homeopathy bringing people together.
Natalie Richards: You know what? It always is.
Felicia Devine: It is.
Natalie Richards: every Everywhere we step foot is marketing.
Felicia Devine: Yes.
Natalie Richards: And I don't even try.
Felicia Devine: I know.
Natalie Richards: i don't.
Felicia Devine: It's natural.
Natalie Richards: literally don't even try.
Felicia Devine: I know. So I was like, well, now everyone knows I have homeopathy and I'm a chiropractor.
Natalie Richards: Love it.
Felicia Devine: So yeah. um But live, love, laugh chiropractic.
Natalie Richards: All we do is live our lives and we go have a day.
Natalie Richards: So funny.
Felicia Devine: No, but I also, so a family that came to the group ride this morning, they were like, oh my gosh, last night when we were in for our adjustments, we saw another family of kids and we just saw them at Plum Creek Creamery for breakfast.
Natalie Richards: Oh, how funny.
Felicia Devine: I'm like, they're everywhere. My soldiers are everywhere.
Natalie Richards: War everywhere.
Natalie Richards: It's really great.
Felicia Devine: yeah yeah. So I was like, oh, it's perfect.
Natalie Richards: ever It always seems like, oh God, there's a fly. It always seems like people who know each other are always like on the schedule next to each other. it just always happens that way.
Felicia Devine: It always works out.
Natalie Richards: people who are related, people who, it just always happens that way.
Felicia Devine: is it
Natalie Richards: It's so funny. And I'm like, oh wait, you guys know each other.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Oh, okay.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. I have people. They're like, oh that's my cousin.
Natalie Richards: Well, yeah.
Felicia Devine: i'm like, what?
Natalie Richards: Okay.
Felicia Devine: Like, she'll be like, that's my aunt. I'm like, you're the same age. She's like, I know. I'm like, this is real confusing.
Natalie Richards: Right. So funny. It's great.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: We've created such great communities and I love it so much.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. It's so fun. it Sometimes, well, let's just say the clinical side is the fun stuff that doesn't feel like work.
Natalie Richards: I love it.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Like I love being the chiropractor.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. I do too.
Felicia Devine: I absolutely love it.
Natalie Richards: I love it.
Felicia Devine: I love it. ah
Natalie Richards: I love chatting. I love, yeah, not everything, but I do love most of it.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. We call it.
Felicia Devine: My girls know I like to yap. And so they'll specifically schedule my day in certain ways where they're like, yeah, we gave her some extra time because she, we knew.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: There's a yap break. There's a You know, what I always think about is I always think I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so like Dr.
Felicia Devine: We knew you'd be talking.
Natalie Richards: Wallace. It's unbelievable. And it's so funny.
Felicia Devine: No, it's so true. It is so true.
Natalie Richards: Dr. Wallace is who like trained both of us. And we always would just be like, oh God, he's talking again. It's going to be 30 minutes.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: And we're not like that bad, but it's still...
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: I mean, we we at least have a self-awareness about it.
Natalie Richards: We have a little bit of awareness.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: wonder. I'd be curious to know if Dr. Wallace listens to our podcast.
Natalie Richards: I will send it to him. I talked to him the other day.
Felicia Devine: Did you?
Natalie Richards: did not maybe like a couple months ago.
Felicia Devine: He used to message us on Facebook. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. He's the best. He's so funny.
Felicia Devine: Oh, we adore him.
Natalie Richards: I know.
Felicia Devine: um We are the chiropractors we are because of Dr. Wallace.
Natalie Richards: But truly, it truly is.
Felicia Devine: Literally. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: And he's like, he's 80.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: I forget how old he is now.
Felicia Devine: I mean, we're grateful that he was our clinic doc before he retired.
Natalie Richards: he's like,
Natalie Richards: I know we were, we barely snuck in there.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: I'm pretty sure he's 83, 83 or right now.
Felicia Devine: Dr. Wallace, if you're listening, let us know.
Natalie Richards: Hi.
Felicia Devine: Let us know how old you are.
Natalie Richards: But he's doing well. The last time I talked to him, he was doing well.
Felicia Devine: He's a young 60.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. So funny. um
Felicia Devine: oh my goodness.
Natalie Richards: Okay. I have to tell you about today. It was so funny.
Felicia Devine: Oh, I saw that on your Instagram. Okay. Give us give us some insight.
Natalie Richards: i I something on Instagram and I had texted Kyle this morning. Kyle's at work this morning. He usually does not work mornings, but...
Felicia Devine: okay.
Natalie Richards: He has had to the last few weeks just because somebody quit and don't know, whatever. So he's at work and we had talked about this estate sta this estate sale last night because somebody posted it on the Ogle County page and it was...
Natalie Richards: All these pictures of like taxidermy and like bolo ties and like old knives and like a zebra hide rug was hanging off the banister in this like old log cabin.
Felicia Devine: Oh.
Natalie Richards: And I was like, I feel like I like that.
Felicia Devine: I feel called to go.
Natalie Richards: um I just felt like, you know, I needed to go. And I was like, you know, I have a babysitter this morning. I'm just going to go to this estate sale.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: And it's like 20 minutes from our house. So in the scheme of in the realm of of my life, 20 minutes is very close.
Felicia Devine: That's very close. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Like perfect, 20 minutes, amazing, literally.
Felicia Devine: Just around the corner.
Natalie Richards: So I'm driving to the estate sale and I text Kyle and I go, how much do you think is like at a reasonable amount for a zebra rug?
Felicia Devine: you need
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: to know the price prior to arriving.
Natalie Richards: No, no.
Felicia Devine: Okay.
Natalie Richards: I just, I was, you know, just like, what, what would I pay for said zebra rug?
Felicia Devine: but
Felicia Devine: What would I pay?
Natalie Richards: Like it's a real zebra. Like how many of these things exist in the world?
Felicia Devine: i think $600.
Natalie Richards: Like you, you can only, that's kind of what I had in my mind.
Felicia Devine: hundred
Natalie Richards: I was like five, six, maybe something like that. He goes, i don't know.
Felicia Devine: Okay.
Natalie Richards: Google it. And I
Felicia Devine: Well, the Google's going to tell you.
Natalie Richards: And go, okay.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: ah So Google said like probably estate sale prices would be somewhere around like $700 if it's really, really pristine, maybe like $1,000.
Felicia Devine: Okay.
Felicia Devine: Okay.
Natalie Richards: I'm like, okay, fair enough. So i get to this – and estate sales, I feel like they – dave They charge way more than they probably should for certain things, I find.
Felicia Devine: Oh, really? Okay.
Natalie Richards: i don't know.
Felicia Devine: Okay.
Natalie Richards: That's like around our area. People who put on estate sales, you go and you're like, seriously, you want me to pay $50 for that?
Felicia Devine: For a mug.
Natalie Richards: ah like Like the bolo ties that I was looking at, was a bolo tie and they were like $50 for a, you know, I'm like, I don't i don't want to pay that really.
Felicia Devine: a For an estate sale. Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: um
Felicia Devine: Like you're already dead. Quit being greedy. 1,500.
Natalie Richards: Exactly.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: um So they wanted $1,500 for this zebra. And I was like, okay, yes.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. hundred
Natalie Richards: Which I understand.
Felicia Devine: oh
Natalie Richards: i get it.
Felicia Devine: yeah
Natalie Richards: But this guy, I mean, he had like whole moose heads on his wall. Like he had hunted every possible animal I think that you could hunt in the world probably.
Felicia Devine: And he died. He was dead.
Natalie Richards: He died and that this was his estate sale.
Felicia Devine: Oh.
Natalie Richards: So there were tons of deer mounts. There were like, he had a cougar, like a mountain lion taxidermied, a couple bears.
Felicia Devine: Where are his children?
Natalie Richards: I don't know. I don't know.
Felicia Devine: Why aren't they inheriting that?
Natalie Richards: I don't.
Felicia Devine: That's like inherited items.
Natalie Richards: There are so many things that you just couldn't even bring into your home though. Like it it was so big.
Felicia Devine: Oh.
Natalie Richards: It was crazy.
Felicia Devine: Wow.
Natalie Richards: So what I'm going to do is I'm going to go back on Sunday when everything's half price and I'm going see what's left.
Felicia Devine: Oh.
Natalie Richards: But there was like a zebra head, like a face on the wall. Like it was insane.
Felicia Devine: Was it the face of the zebra?
Natalie Richards: The face of the zebra. It was insane. But they wanted like $2,000 for just the face.
Felicia Devine: Wait, you need both.
Felicia Devine: Oh, yeah.
Natalie Richards: Anyway, it's kind of sickening actually, but...
Felicia Devine: Wow.
Natalie Richards: But if anybody needs a zebra rug, it's probably me.
Felicia Devine: Wait, what could you get Kyle for Father's Day from there?
Natalie Richards: I already got him something for fun.
Felicia Devine: did you?
Natalie Richards: He goes, I don't want any taxidermy.
Felicia Devine: Would you get Kyle for Father's Day?
Natalie Richards: I got him the new style of Pit Viper sunglasses, um which are like, they had like major blue mirrored things.
Felicia Devine: Ooh.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: They were like a and a normal like Oakley style is kind of what they were.
Felicia Devine: That's so Kyle.
Natalie Richards: And then I got Jean also a pair of kid size pit vipers too. So like both have their little, he needed a size up.
Felicia Devine: Cute. Yes. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: So that was it.
Felicia Devine: I got, well, Danny got Seppi the baby. So you got Giuseppe the baby vipers.
Natalie Richards: Baby vipers.
Felicia Devine: Dan bought Seppi the toddler, like the kid's eyes.
Natalie Richards: Ah,
Felicia Devine: um But he still likes his baby vipers way more.
Natalie Richards: the big ones. He wore the baby ones for a long time.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. They still fit, Sep.
Natalie Richards: And now he's just, he's a little too big now.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah. They still fit him. So we keep both in the diaper.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Well, we don't use the diaper bag. We use the bog bag.
Natalie Richards: They're so cute. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. um So we keep both in there. And like we were at an indoor birthday party the other day and he like whips them out and like puts his his baby Vipes on indoors. And like it was it was a girl's birthday party.
Natalie Richards: Of course he did. And they're like, what is this?
Felicia Devine: So there's like a lot of girls there. And I was like, are you trying to be so cool for the girlies?
Natalie Richards: one he was. That's so cute.
Felicia Devine: i know. It was precious.
Natalie Richards: so
Felicia Devine: So –
Natalie Richards: Oh, also Jean got a mullet.
Felicia Devine: Oh, yes.
Natalie Richards: I sent you. oh my gosh.
Felicia Devine: This is like ah just in this week.
Natalie Richards: It is. I have to, I'll post a picture of it on, on Instagram.
Felicia Devine: Gene got his first mullet. It aged him five years.
Natalie Richards: It literally did. He looks like he's 10.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: It's so cute though. Every time I look at him, I'm like, oh my God, you're so cute.
Felicia Devine: He's adorable. I don't feel like he'll be mistaked as a girl anymore.
Natalie Richards: I hope not.
Felicia Devine: Because that's not a girl haircut.
Natalie Richards: No, he looks like a boy.
Felicia Devine: out Like, he looks like a dirt boy.
Natalie Richards: He is a boy. He is a
Felicia Devine: And you put those pit vipers on him, he's going to look like a boy.
Natalie Richards: He is literally joe Dirt.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah. I know.
Natalie Richards: And now he and Kyle have the exact same haircut and they look so alike.
Felicia Devine: Oh, gosh. Well, same with Dan and Seppy.
Natalie Richards: It's so cute. Oh, it's so cute.
Felicia Devine: They have the exact mullet.
Natalie Richards: I love a kid in a mullet. My mom is horrified.
Felicia Devine: I do, too. And a dad in a mullet.
Natalie Richards: my my mom is like mortified. She goes, I didn't tell him that I don't like it, but like, I don't like it.
Felicia Devine: Why?
Natalie Richards: She
Felicia Devine: Your mom didn't like Jean's haircut.
Natalie Richards: hates it.
Felicia Devine: I need a
Natalie Richards: But he's so cute. She just is not.
Felicia Devine: I'm into it.
Natalie Richards: She's done into the mullet. And that's okay. It's fine.
Felicia Devine: That's okay. She's more country club.
Natalie Richards: She is. And you know what?
Felicia Devine: That's okay.
Natalie Richards: The country club people are still going to love the mullet because it's Jean.
Felicia Devine: I know. I know.
Natalie Richards: Oh, boy.
Felicia Devine: It's Shane. He's so darn cute. Oh, guess where I went shopping the other day and hit a jackpot.
Natalie Richards: Where? Okay, know.
Felicia Devine: Like country club level clothing. Walmart.
Natalie Richards: okay i know I know.
Felicia Devine: Shocking.
Natalie Richards: I know.
Felicia Devine: Gorgeous.
Natalie Richards: i know.
Felicia Devine: Gorgeous cotton maxi skirts.
Natalie Richards: but's i know. That's the only place around us that I can actually go to. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: I'm like shocked. Dave goes, how did you spend this much money at Walmart?
Natalie Richards: so So I occasionally dabble.
Felicia Devine: What did you buy? I'm like, an entire new wardrobe.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Felicia Devine: Entire.
Natalie Richards: For Jean. Oh my gosh. The kids clothes.
Felicia Devine: Are they good?
Natalie Richards: They're amazing.
Felicia Devine: Oh, I didn't look.
Natalie Richards: They're so, you have to look. They're so cute.
Felicia Devine: Okay.
Natalie Richards: So cute. I don't like Walmart in general. I really don't.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Like they, they really don't for groceries. Like they just don't have the things I need. They just don't. Sometimes like they have a decent organic produce selection, but everything else that is lacking, desperately lacking.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. I found our yogurt and I found our creamer there, but like, yeah.
Natalie Richards: It's that's about it. But they're they really do.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Their kids' clothes section is popping.
Felicia Devine: Okay. Okay. Yeah, we we frequented Walmart twice in the past week.
Natalie Richards: Oh, my.
Felicia Devine: It was lovely.
Natalie Richards: No, they really are. they're They're stepping up their game a little bit.
Felicia Devine: Yeah, no, but my outfit I got, so we're doing two lake trips this year.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: We're going to Michigan um to visit Dan's brother and then we're going to Minnesota to visit Aunt Judy.
Natalie Richards: Mm
Natalie Richards: hmm. Mm hmm. You are. yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yeah, and so the clothes, I got like this capsule wardrobe for those like lake trips and I'm like into it.
Natalie Richards: I love it. Lake trips. Yeah, they have they do. They have so many very like Americana vibe.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Yes. 4th of July.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Like one of my sweaters has this like big sailboat on it.
Natalie Richards: So cute.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: And like, I'm like, Oh, so cute.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: So yeah.
Natalie Richards: Agreed.
Felicia Devine: So Walmart it's, it's happening.
Natalie Richards: How fun.
Felicia Devine: And I got new pajamas there.
Natalie Richards: ah fun.
Felicia Devine: Oh my gosh. I'm decked in Walmart.
Natalie Richards: Lovely.
Felicia Devine: Lovely. Um, um, how is your mold and lime journey?
Natalie Richards: It's kind of hilarious, actually.
Natalie Richards: um It's good. i would say generally good. Actually, you know what? Today, very good. I woke up and my tongue, but my feet are much better.
Felicia Devine: Your feet okay?
Natalie Richards: My tongue was not white this morning or had just like a little bit.
Felicia Devine: Good.
Natalie Richards: Like I scrape it every day, but it was like not that much today.
Felicia Devine: Okay. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: I was surprised.
Felicia Devine: Good.
Natalie Richards: So that's really good. So things I think are coming more in balance and I'm very happy about that.
Felicia Devine: Good. Awesome.
Natalie Richards: um Being pretty good about taking my things, which is great.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: um Lots of activated charcoal still, lots more herbs. So I'm like really taking a lot of herbs
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Wow.
Natalie Richards: It's like a herbal tincture with tons of stuff.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: And I'm taking like three different herbal blends to kill this crapola off.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: And Kyle, the other day, he had like the stomach flu when we got home from the lake and he was feeling so bad.
Felicia Devine: Oh, no.
Natalie Richards: And I'm like ju chugging along like nothing ever happened because I'm literally
Felicia Devine: Yeah, because you're taking six grams of charcoal a day.
Natalie Richards: binding and killing every possible thing that could come in my body.
Felicia Devine: Not a chance something could stick in there.
Natalie Richards: So Really good. know. Isn't that funny?
Felicia Devine: Wow.
Felicia Devine: That's incredible. I have a question for you.
Natalie Richards: yes
Felicia Devine: I had a patient in this week with a symptom that I wasn't expecting. So she started care a couple weeks ago and then she was like, my husband and i were talking and he's like, yeah, you're always like extra edgy, emotional, grumpy, like whatever you want to call it, the day after you get adjusted.
Natalie Richards: okay
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: and she's like, oh, I didn't think of that.
Natalie Richards: Interesting.
Felicia Devine: And then she's like, what do you take of that? And I was like, well, my take would be that your body is like detoxing.
Natalie Richards: Definitely.
Felicia Devine: And then it's all free floating in your system the next day.
Natalie Richards: Definitely.
Felicia Devine: so you need a binder.
Natalie Richards: She should take a, but definitely.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. So I gave her charcoal to try. She forgot to try it.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: So I don't know if it was. But I was like, try it this time. So she got adjusted.
Natalie Richards: And she'd probably want to do it like that night and the day after.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. That's what I told her.
Natalie Richards: yeah
Felicia Devine: Um, but I was like, I haven't had anybody draw that correlation.
Natalie Richards: Oh, funny.
Felicia Devine: It does make sense physiologically to me that you would be detoxing and then feeling the effects of the like floating toxins.
Natalie Richards: Definitely.
Natalie Richards: Yes. Yes.
Felicia Devine: Um, so.
Natalie Richards: I've had some people have similar things, maybe not like mood wise, but definitely like it would be like a resurgence of their, like somebody was getting vertigo from
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: like toxins basically. Like they would, ah anytime they would like take in something, they would get vertigo.
Felicia Devine: again
Natalie Richards: Um, so like after an adjustment, it would sometimes, it would like resurge that just for a second and then it would go away. So like, that would be kind of the same thing.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I told her, I was like, I'm going to say physiology tells me.
Natalie Richards: Yeah, I would agree.
Felicia Devine: That you're detoxing. I don't have any anecdotal evidence or like but i don't have a scientific paper to give to you.
Natalie Richards: No, I don't know. You could ever no
Felicia Devine: But I was like, the easiest thing we could try is a binder and see if it helps. So we'll see.
Natalie Richards: Definitely.
Felicia Devine: I'll report back.
Natalie Richards: Very interesting. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: I'd be curious. She's probably going to have to do a lot more work than just that, but yeah.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's, yeah, there's a lot more going on.
Natalie Richards: hu
Felicia Devine: um
Natalie Richards: Interesting. But that's the power of the adjustment also is it's incredible.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Mm-hmm. No, literally. I've had patients come in and be like, ah I'm sorry if this is a weird question, but like my pee smells so bad after I get adjusted.
Natalie Richards: right?
Felicia Devine: I'm like, yeah, let's go.
Natalie Richards: Yes. That's good. it's good i know Like it's supposed to happen.
Felicia Devine: Like that's a detox pathway. We want that. Yeah. Better out than in Yeah.
Natalie Richards: yep And like periods getting better and just like from doing nothing other than just getting adjusted.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Like it's amazing.
Felicia Devine: It is truly phenomenal.
Natalie Richards: Very powerful. oh my gosh.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Gene yesterday, I adjusted him. he goes, and I said, Oh, how did that one feel Jeannie? And he said, mommy, you're the best chiropractor ever. i go, Oh, You're kidding me
Felicia Devine: That's cute.
Natalie Richards: Like what? Isn't that so sweet?
Felicia Devine: Oh, I love it. Do you pop crack him or do you activate him?
Natalie Richards: Um, just with the anteriors.
Felicia Devine: Oh, you give him anteriors.
Natalie Richards: I do. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: i mean, he's bigger.
Natalie Richards: Only because like, yeah, just like very gently. um mostly just drops. He likes the drops.
Felicia Devine: Oh, do you? Yeah.
Natalie Richards: He's just like super gentle little drops.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: I feel like he does better with that. He doesn't like the activator very much.
Felicia Devine: Really?
Natalie Richards: Yeah. He's like, nope, don't put that thing near me.
Felicia Devine: Oh, Seppi loves that.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. So he even like, I'll do like teeny tiny little drops in his neck too. Just like tiny, tiny.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Oh.
Natalie Richards: And then little bit cranial work just a little bit.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: He loves that. He loves just like having his head, head smooshed.
Felicia Devine: Mm.
Felicia Devine: Seppi will like jump on. We have my table. I have a portable table set up in the basement and he'll lay down face down on the table, like face in the face thing, wanting an adjustment.
Natalie Richards: Yep. Yep.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: That's what Jean does too. He's like, okay, adjustment time, mommy.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: I'm like, okay.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. He like begs for adjustments. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: That's so cute. he know Gene knows exactly when he needs it.
Felicia Devine: and
Natalie Richards: He knows exactly. Or he'll say, oh, my my tummy kind of hurts. Can I have an adjustment? or o Sometimes I think he's fibbing, but yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yeah, but he just wants an adjustment. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: That's just cute though.
Felicia Devine: I love it.
Natalie Richards: I know.
Felicia Devine: We talked so much about business already today.
Natalie Richards: Holy cow. Look at us.
Felicia Devine: Wow. Look at us having a business podcast.
Natalie Richards: Now we need to get into some other things because we left people with a decent cliffhanger last time.
Felicia Devine: Yes. Yes.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: And um pretty much just saying like, okay, Felicia nearly died. like Like as close to dying as without dying.
Felicia Devine: Without dying.
Natalie Richards: which is shocking. Um, and, and it's kind of like, okay, can this happen from just like a normal miscarriage?
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Right. Like, why did this happen?
Natalie Richards: And that's like, that's like a little shocking to, to think now people, women die from pregnancy related complications all the time.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: Like, I don't know if, I don't know if people understand
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: the rate at which women actually die from these things.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: It happens.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: And if you didn't advocate for yourself in the way that you needed to, you probably would have been part of that.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: I know.
Felicia Devine: Right.
Natalie Richards: And when people don't know how to navigate the system, that makes me very, very, very nervous for them.
Felicia Devine: i know. It's so crazy.
Felicia Devine: Right. Right.
Natalie Richards: However, your situation, as we will get into, is not a normal miscarriage situation.
Felicia Devine: Why would it be? why would it be normal?
Natalie Richards: Why why would it be? So I would love to hear kind of what happened.
Felicia Devine: Let me be the one person percenter. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: What did you find out at pretty much starting with your post-op appointment?
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: after the DNC and after you got home and couldn't sleep for days and was traumatized and all of this, like what kind of, what things came up after that kind of helped bring all of these pieces together?
Felicia Devine: ah hello
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Traumatized.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Kind of. Well, and it's still so funny because no one's taking full responsibility for it.
Natalie Richards: Of course not.
Felicia Devine: Of course not. Okay. So it's not,
Natalie Richards: And I don't know that it is a even one person's problem. it's It's such a...
Felicia Devine: it is
Natalie Richards: Yeah, anyway, we'll get into it.
Felicia Devine: it's so complicated. Okay. So I get home, obviously have a ton of PTSD. So I immediately seek out my Reiki practitioner
Natalie Richards: Oh, yes.
Felicia Devine: I see her Monday morning because I'm like, I have PTSD hard. Like I've never had PTSD.
Natalie Richards: Uh-huh.
Natalie Richards: Uh-huh. But you were struggling.
Felicia Devine: It was crazy. I truly don't understand how people live like that. Every minute of my existence in the aftermath was like, I would have been dead.
Felicia Devine: I would have died. I'm a dead. Like it was all I could think about, which is crazy.
Natalie Richards: Wow.
Felicia Devine: Cause it was just like, not how I normally would have operated.
Natalie Richards: yeah And that you said last time, that's what you felt more after this situation than even losing the baby. It was like, it was, it was that you had nearly left this earth.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Which is interesting because then many weeks later, i actually started feeling sad about the pregnancy loss, um which was like a new experience.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Which makes sense.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: um So, okay. So I immediately got help with the PTSD and that substantially subsided. Like,
Natalie Richards: Okay, amazing.
Felicia Devine: Like I wouldn't say I am struggling currently, which is good.
Natalie Richards: Good. Amazing.
Felicia Devine: So um I had originally gotten contact with the hospital and they were like, oh, here you need to schedule your post-op appointment. um We scheduled it for you.
Felicia Devine: I'm like, okay.
Natalie Richards: Okay.
Felicia Devine: So I look at my calendar and it's like on a day I work and also with a doctor that i that wasn't even in the ER, the hospital, like completely out of that scenario, it was just a post-op check with this doctor.
Natalie Richards: What?
Natalie Richards: what
Natalie Richards: That's crazy.
Felicia Devine: So I call back and I'm like, um no, thank you. i need to see the surgeon.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: they're like, oh well, he doesn't even work at this office. Like you have to call a different office. Like he doesn't even work here. I'm like, okay. Like that's interesting.
Natalie Richards: Okay.
Felicia Devine: So I call his office and they're like, yeah, we can see you. i think it was 12 days post-op. postop um which is like not really that relevant.
Natalie Richards: Fine.
Felicia Devine: Like it doesn't really matter. So I get in, I go to the appointment and he comes in and he is fabulous.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: He talked to me for like 45 minutes.
Natalie Richards: Amazing. Wow.
Felicia Devine: I asked him every question under the sun. I'm like, what was this scenario? What was that? How did this happen? Is this normal? dahda da da dah We're going through and through and through.
Felicia Devine: I'm like, what are my chances of hemorrhaging on a next pregnancy?
Natalie Richards: Awesome.
Felicia Devine: Like, am I still a good candidate for home birth?
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: What does it look like for getting pregnant again? What was this? So we're going through all these things. Now, towards the end of the conversation, i say I had a sinking suspicion.
Felicia Devine: Like, I kind of wanted to gauge where he was.
Natalie Richards: In terms of whether he thought that this was like a literal, you almost died situation.
Felicia Devine: Like.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: And I was also like, like how, how like woohoo he was.
Natalie Richards: From his perspective.
Felicia Devine: Like, I don't know. I was like kind of trying to gauge that because at the end of the conversation, i go, all right, this might sound a little out there.
Natalie Richards: Okay.
Felicia Devine: But was there any indication to you that I was having twins? I said, i had this feeling.
Natalie Richards: Oh, okay.
Felicia Devine: i had this knowing. i had this intuition that i was going to have twins. And he's like, you know what? Let's take a look at the pathology report again.
Felicia Devine: Like, let's just like read through it one more time.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: And I'm like, okay. So he opens up the pathology report and he was like, oh, wait a minute. He was like, actually, like all these recommendations I already gave you, like, let's recount this because this is showing signs.
Felicia Devine: So what they found on pathology was hydrophic changes to the chorionic villi. Those are big words. Basically what happened is I had internal swelling of my placenta. My placenta had swollen pieces of it, which is like very abnormal. um And it had extra blood supply to it, which is also abnormal. And that pathology report indicates that I had what's called molar pregnancy.
Felicia Devine: So this was kind of like all new to me when he was dropping this.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: Cause like, I've heard of the word molar pregnancy back in embryology, which we took in, like, we took that in 2017.
Natalie Richards: I have two. I mean, it's yeah. Like, oh yeah.
Felicia Devine: Like, I'm sorry.
Natalie Richards: A molar pregnancy. Okay, cool.
Felicia Devine: yeah I don't remember much.
Natalie Richards: Okay.
Felicia Devine: And he's like, yeah, like, um, you know how I said you can get pregnant after your first normal cycle. Like we're going to take a little hiatus on that. Um, he was like, yeah, I don't want you getting pregnant.
Felicia Devine: Um, the recommendation is like six months to a year. And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah, this is like a little bit more serious. You know, this pathology report is giving us an indication that like it was a molar pregnancy.
Felicia Devine: And I'm like, okay. But he like didn't go into detail.
Natalie Richards: didn't go into it.
Felicia Devine: This was like the end of the conversation.
Natalie Richards: Right. He had already spent way too much time with you.
Felicia Devine: i was like, okay, yeah.
Natalie Richards: and
Felicia Devine: He was like, okay, so moving forward, you need to get weekly blood work. And I was like, oh, he was like, yeah, we have to, yeah, we have to like monitor your hormone levels weekly.
Natalie Richards: Weekly.
Felicia Devine: And I was like, oh, okay.
Natalie Richards: To make sure that HCG is coming down.
Felicia Devine: And i was like, yeah. And i was like, okay. So I like leave there with like Not much closure, but like a little bit of closure, but not really.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. More questions.
Felicia Devine: And I was like, okay. Yeah. But I didn't know I had more questions until I got home and was like actually like expanding my brain into what a molar pregnancy is. And I was like, oh my goodness.
Natalie Richards: ah
Felicia Devine: Like there. So I'm going to go.
Natalie Richards: Please explain, please elaborate.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: So a molar pregnancy is essentially. A pregnancy that exists that is either one... Okay, okay.
Felicia Devine: There's two types. Complete molar pregnancy, partial molar pregnancy.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: A complete molar pregnancy is one sperm fertilizes one egg, but the egg does not have DNA from the mother.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: So you basically get one set of chromosomes. A normal baby is developed with two sets of chromosomes. Okay.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: So this type of complete molar pregnancy is essentially fully tumor-based. So it has no baby pieces because it doesn't have enough DNA to create any baby pieces.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: Okay.
Natalie Richards: But it still has like, again, the parts, right? Like it still creates a placenta or not even, it won't even implant.
Felicia Devine: is
Natalie Richards: Okay.
Felicia Devine: It's just tumor. it They call it a cluster of grapes.
Natalie Richards: Got it. Okay.
Felicia Devine: It's just tumor cells dividing. Okay. Then there's partial molar pregnancy. A partial molar pregnancy is one egg gets fertilized by two sperm. This creates baby pieces, but typically no baby.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: Okay, so you get like the placenta and the fecal sac and like things like that. um Now that is like the first indicator to us that mine was a partial molar pregnancy.
Natalie Richards: Right. And if we think back to when you had your ultrasound, the interesting part of that ultrasound was that, yes, you had everything there, but there was no baby inside.
Felicia Devine: i
Felicia Devine: yes
Felicia Devine: No baby. said Yeah.
Natalie Richards: And it was kind of like, when you said that, I was like, huh, okay.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Because that's not normal.
Felicia Devine: Okay. Normal.
Natalie Richards: Anyway.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: So, okay So I'm like doing my own research because he basically drops a bomb that like, oh, like it it's indicating that maybe it's a molar pregnancy. Then I'm doing my own research and reading up on how dangerous this pregnancy is.
Natalie Richards: h
Felicia Devine: Like if you find out you're having a molar pregnancy, you get an immediate emergency DNC that minute.
Natalie Richards: Right. Which is insane that they didn't mention that to you at the MFM's office.
Felicia Devine: You don't wait eight days to have a natural miscarriage.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yes.
Natalie Richards: Insane because they're literally, that's what they do.
Felicia Devine: So,
Natalie Richards: That's what an MFM is. It's like they're trained in the unusual, weird, high risk things.
Felicia Devine: yeah
Felicia Devine: Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now we'll circle back to some of the other things that will point to a molar pregnancy that are clinical.
Natalie Richards: Correct.
Felicia Devine: So clinical signs of a molar pregnancy are abnormal levels, abnormally high levels of HCG.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: Now that is the hormone that shows up as a byproduct in your urine when you pee on a pregnancy test.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: Now, if I think about when I tested positive with Giuseppe and a ah normal healthy pregnancy, it was like 14 days post-ovulation.
Natalie Richards: huh
Felicia Devine: It was the faintest barely of a line. It was the day I missed my period. Like it couldn't have been like,
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: that to me would have like made me suspicious of like, is this even viable?
Natalie Richards: Totally.
Felicia Devine: you know Now this pregnancy, I tested hard and fast at 10 days post-ovulation with a bright pink line.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: Okay. So that's abnormal levels of HCG like immediately.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: um Secondly, you have a distended like swollen abdomen when you have a molar pregnancy.
Natalie Richards: What you did right away.
Felicia Devine: I had a belly and I even have like a photo I sent to my um mom and I was like, I'm having twins. Like I had, and it wasn't like I was bloated.
Natalie Richards: You, took you showed it to me. i was like, yeah.
Felicia Devine: It was like the, the shape of my uterus, like it was a uterus distense, like it was a pregnancy belly.
Natalie Richards: Distended. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: which makes sense from the placental inflammation that's happening.
Felicia Devine: Um, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Um, then it's like, so the other thing is like on ultrasound, you can see, um, ovarian cysts. i then later went back and looked at my um radio, like my radiograph report.
Felicia Devine: And it said on ultrasound, I had a cyst on my right ovary.
Natalie Richards: Okay.
Felicia Devine: Um, now this circles into why I had intuition about having twins because I had one egg fertilized by two sperm and in the rarest of rare, rare, rare, rare pregnancies, this type of DNA modification or like extra chromosomal formation will split and form twins. Um,
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm. But there's only been like what you said, two documented cases of of like viable twins where they've actually been born alive, which...
Felicia Devine: Two documented cases in the whole world. okay
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Almost exclusively do these pregnancies end in a miscarriage because typically they cannot create a viable baby.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: So.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. And I think if you would have been further along, this would have been even more detrimental to your health.
Felicia Devine: Oh, yeah. Like these, that like I said, if you find out you're having a molar pregnancy, it's immediate DNC. It's like, this is extremely dangerous.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Like the fact that I didn't die from the miscarriage is a blessing because essentially what's happening is like the puzzle pieces and the dominoes that line up in a normal miscarriage of like a baby that just like didn't have enough like gum, like gum.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: gung-ho and like enough energy and like there were some other reasons they will like deach the placenta will detach and you will pass the contents and then your uterus closes now my uterus couldn't close to stop the bleeding because the placenta didn't have enough communication to detach so my placenta was like pretty much still attached and I was bleeding like
Natalie Richards: Yeah. That there was ah some other reason. yeah
Natalie Richards: Yes. Yes.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: tremendously because I had a extra vessels that had formed. So I had so much more blood going to my uterus anyway.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: And then B the, the lack of detachment wouldn't let the uterus like fully close them, stop that bleeding.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: So there were like a lot of pieces of the puzzle that like in hindsight makes sense, right? Like in hindsight, I should have had the DNC right away in hindsight.
Natalie Richards: Definitely.
Natalie Richards: yes
Felicia Devine: We should have realized like the no baby, the swollen abdomen, the high levels of HCG, the cyst on my ovary, um all of that.
Natalie Richards: hu
Natalie Richards: Yep. what
Felicia Devine: My intuition, um freaking intuition, muscle testing.
Natalie Richards: My muscle testing of twins.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Like Natalie was pulling me as twins.
Natalie Richards: That was crazy.
Felicia Devine: I truly felt deep in my bones. I was having twins.
Natalie Richards: Yeah, you did.
Felicia Devine: And like, yeah I've said that from the second I got pregnant.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: And so I'm like, I knew i had too much dna in there.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: I knew it.
Natalie Richards: You felt like something was off.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Like, it's like, it's no surprise that like now looking back on it, of course I had like so much going on in there. Um, and what turns out to be like, so discouraging is that no, like the doctor.
Natalie Richards: Right. Oh, it's so crazy.
Felicia Devine: So essentially to like confirm, let's just say like hard and fast confirmation is doing DNA testing.
Natalie Richards: Sure.
Felicia Devine: But pathology stopped at pathology. They didn't send me for DNA testing.
Natalie Richards: I see.
Felicia Devine: And I went for my post-op.
Natalie Richards: And you can't do anything about that anymore.
Felicia Devine: I went for my post-op 12 days later.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: It's not like they kept my placenta.
Natalie Richards: No.
Felicia Devine: So all we can really go on is like the clinical signs and the pathology report to say it was most likely like a molar pregnancy.
Natalie Richards: Oh.
Natalie Richards: It makes sense. h
Felicia Devine: And only 1% of people ever have a molar pregnancy.
Natalie Richards: Wow.
Felicia Devine: Like very rare.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: um i only – I've now met one person. That's that odd one.
Natalie Richards: Wow.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: I've only heard about it. but Yeah. I've only heard people talking about it in like Facebook groups.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. it's not It's not cool. And it's also really sad because essentially what happens is because it forms incomplete, like incorrect DNA cells, they're precancerous.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: And so if they don't retrieve all of those cells in the DNC, if any cells get left behind, they can kick up in production and create more tumors.
Natalie Richards: hu
Felicia Devine: And that can create a cancer.
Natalie Richards: And that's why you have to keep getting blood work and you can't get pregnant for a year.
Felicia Devine: You have to keep getting blood work and then you can't get pregnant for a year because if those cells persist in the uterus and you get pregnant, your pregnancy hormones can help like expedite that process or a normal pregnancy can hide the fact that a tumor is growing.
Natalie Richards: the
Natalie Richards: Sure.
Felicia Devine: So there's a lot of like sketchy complications. Now, some people...
Natalie Richards: Would those tumors, would those produce HCG?
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: okay It's ah like a gonadotropic cancer. um But... basically like I'm lucky a to be alive because of that situation, but B I'm lucky that we actually had the DNC to then have the pathology.
Felicia Devine: Cause like, what if I didn't know it was molar?
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: And then after a one normal cycle, we tried to get pregnant, you know?
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: So there's some like blessings and curses all smushed in between.
Natalie Richards: No kidding.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Um, but like, there's like specialists out there that deal with molar pregnancies. Like, it's not like a, yeah, it's not like a oopsies,
Natalie Richards: complicated.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: It's like, this is like a very big deal.
Natalie Richards: It's, it's not like, oh, this was just like a one-off miscarriage.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: It's like, there's, there's a lot of pieces to it.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. There's a lot of pieces to the puzzle and there's a lot of like confusion because like I said, there's no hard line in the sand that says like, yes, you had a Mueller pregnancy.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: We're kind of operating under the guise that we did, but then no one's like willing to like give the diagnosis of the Mueller pregnancy.
Natalie Richards: Because you can't.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. And I'm just like so frustrated because I feel like pathology coming up with abnormal findings should immediately constitute further testing.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: You would think. And then they, and it wasn't even flagged enough that the doctor noticed it on the pathology report to even tell you, you had to ask.
Felicia Devine: Right.
Felicia Devine: Right. I had to, I had to come up and be like, Hey, what is this? Like, did you feel like I had twins? And then he's like, well, let me re-pull up the pathology.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: And I'm like, Oh, how did anybody miss this?
Natalie Richards: so nothing was like flagged enough.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. And then Dan and I did our own research and digged through the pathology report, which was so minuscule.
Natalie Richards: It's so weird.
Natalie Richards: Wow.
Felicia Devine: They literally said like microscopic um ah documentation or like microscopic um ah report. And it said, done.
Felicia Devine: I'm sorry, what what? What did you see? or no, it didn't say done. It said performed.
Natalie Richards: Performed. Okay.
Felicia Devine: That was the report. It just said they did it.
Natalie Richards: Whoa.
Felicia Devine: Gross observation performed.
Natalie Richards: Whoa.
Felicia Devine: What did you see?
Natalie Richards: Oh no. So like digging deeper into it, it doesn't have any detail.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: The only detail they're showing is that it was a pregnancy and that it had the abnormal placenta.
Natalie Richards: Wow.
Natalie Richards: Wow. So many people not doing their jobs in this situation.
Felicia Devine: But again, right. Like how did they think that running that pathology report of a placenta that came back so abnormal, why didn't they not press it for DNA testing?
Natalie Richards: Probably because they didn't realize that you, because they didn't have the ultrasound to to say, oh, this looks like we need to dive deeper into, they should.
Felicia Devine: They're lazy.
Felicia Devine: ah pathology would never have the ultrasound.
Natalie Richards: No, they would never.
Felicia Devine: No, they should just do their job. If it's abnormal, they send for further testing.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Yeah, they should.
Felicia Devine: It's crazy town. So Dan and I have no true closure, but we're operating under the guise because I need to be safe.
Natalie Richards: Interesting.
Natalie Richards: Which do I think makes sense.
Felicia Devine: Yeah, like I'm not going to, we're not going to try and get pregnant for a whole year because I don't want to deal with like, A, further complications because you're also more at risk of having another molar pregnancy if you've had one and you're trying to get pregnant too soon because your hormones are like not normal.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. No, you do.
Natalie Richards: No.
Natalie Richards: Yep. Yep.
Natalie Richards: No.
Felicia Devine: Um, so we're going to wait the full year.
Natalie Richards: And you wouldn't want there to be a tumor that's growing while you're growing a pregnancy and then you have to deal with that.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Right. So we're going to wait the full year. I'm going to do all my things.
Natalie Richards: Yikes.
Felicia Devine: Um, but let's just say like my intuition did not lead me astray.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: No.
Felicia Devine: I knew i had little baby twins in there, my Alfredo and Alfonso.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm. Mm hmm.
Felicia Devine: But I'll tell you what's interesting now.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: I have no connection, gut feeling connection to the twin pregnancy anymore.
Natalie Richards: It's like.
Felicia Devine: I don't think twins are for me anymore.
Natalie Richards: It's like gone where you thought for sure that you were going to.
Felicia Devine: I felt it in every fiber of my body that I was having twins.
Natalie Richards: you did. Yes. And let's go back to the your Reiki, that first one when you found out you were pregnant.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: And she, did you ask about the twins? Did you ask like, do you think this could be twins or like prior?
Felicia Devine: Prior to getting pregnant, I asked that.
Natalie Richards: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Felicia Devine: And she said, no. And she said, no.
Natalie Richards: Twins would be a very bad idea.
Felicia Devine: twins
Natalie Richards: Twin, mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: She goes, twins would kill you. But like not in that like like physically kill you. But she was like, wouldn't be able to like put one down.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Like she basically was alluding to the fact that like it would be very unhealthy for me.
Natalie Richards: Right. Interesting.
Felicia Devine: It was very unhealthy for me. um But I have no internal knowing of twins anymore. It's like I said goodbye to them.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. They were, which you've read the spirit babies book.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: It's very like, it's just kind of how things are.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. And it's not that one or the other, it's not that one or the other isn't for me.
Natalie Richards: They've come to you.
Felicia Devine: It's that they will never come together at the same time.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: So like Alfredo might come out next and then I might have Alfonso, but Alfredo Alfonso will not be coming at the same time.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but at the same time, they're not going to happen. hu
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: And for you, that will be a good thing.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. But it's very weird because I really in maternal instinct felt twins, twins, twins.
Natalie Richards: It's wild. It's so wild.
Felicia Devine: I am a twin.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: Like it was like twins. And then now I'm like, oh, that's not for me.
Natalie Richards: Yep. m
Felicia Devine: So interesting.
Natalie Richards: It's so crazy.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: i I think back to like two learning about fertilization of egg. And there's like all kinds of videos I've seen and all kinds of... like things where people are explaining how that fertilization happens.
Natalie Richards: And it's like the the very millisecond that one sperm touches that egg, that egg is closed, is closed down.
Felicia Devine: The zinc spark and
Felicia Devine: everything turns off. Yes. It's like closed for shop.
Natalie Richards: So these two sperm have to literally be at the exact same millisecond of time
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: touching that egg to to actually even fertilize the egg at the same time, which is unreal.
Felicia Devine: Exactly.
Natalie Richards: And that's how like the chances of that are so, so, so low.
Felicia Devine: I know.
Felicia Devine: Well, and then I was laughing. Dan and I have to find humor in some of it, right?
Natalie Richards: Of course.
Felicia Devine: Like we can't operate on a very serious basis.
Natalie Richards: Otherwise you know, no.
Felicia Devine: So Dan and I were laughing because we're like, I started him on like really good supplements like a couple months prior.
Natalie Richards: That's true. His sperm were so ready.
Felicia Devine: No, literally. I was like, did we create like super sperm? Like, did we like create like, like, you know how in Jurassic Park things get like out of control?
Natalie Richards: A monster. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Like you like start with a good intention and then things get like really out of hand quickly. i was like, did we create Jurassic Park in you?
Natalie Richards: Oh, my God.
Felicia Devine: Because like, how did this happen? Because at first it was almost like, like it would have been maybe reassuring to have like, oh, a blank egg.
Natalie Richards: Sure.
Felicia Devine: But that's actually worse. So i'm I'm a little bit more excited that it was it was a Dan problem and not a me problem.
Natalie Richards: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Felicia Devine: The Dan's like sperm were just so aggressive.
Felicia Devine: Because I think there's way more detriment to having a blank egg or like at least fertilizing a blank egg.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: I think there's a lot more not good stuff happening there.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm. I think the likelihood of something bad happening later is higher and because that's more of like your DNA and your eggs that yeah.
Felicia Devine: um
Felicia Devine: Higher, yeah.
Felicia Devine: yeah Yeah. And those tumors are way different than like a tumor. Like the tumors I was growing were like baby.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: The tumors that would grow is like so not baby.
Natalie Richards: It's like actually cancer.
Felicia Devine: It's just like, yeah, it's just like bad stuff.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: So it's very interesting.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: It was such an enlightening experience because like I said, A, I don't know anyone who's ever had a molar pregnancy.
Natalie Richards: Wow.
Felicia Devine: B, I had no idea the extent of like not getting pregnant.
Natalie Richards: No kidding.
Felicia Devine: Um, so right.
Natalie Richards: And how dangerous it can be. mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Well, we have a good friend and he was in the office to see Dan on Monday, which is weird because he is a neonatal. Um, he's a retired neonatologist and Dan was like, yeah, over the weekend, like fleche had miscarriage, but it's turning out.
Natalie Richards: oh wo
Felicia Devine: We're like finding out all these things about it. Like, you know, we're finding out it's a Mueller pregnancy and he looks at Dan and he's like, No. And Dan's like, what? And he was like, that is extremely serious.
Felicia Devine: And dan that's the first time Dan felt like, oh, yeah.
Natalie Richards: Oh, this was bad. hu o o
Felicia Devine: Because he's like, that is not good. So, yeah. Anyway, my twins are, they were here and now they're gone.
Natalie Richards: And now they're gone and maybe they will come to you in ah in a different form.
Felicia Devine: Yeah, I think they'll come separately.
Natalie Richards: Totally. Totally.
Felicia Devine: I don't really think they'll come together again.
Natalie Richards: Totally.
Felicia Devine: No.
Natalie Richards: Oh my gosh.
Felicia Devine: yeah So I'm grateful that I had that experience, but it's so interesting. And it's like, I don't know.
Natalie Richards: Wow.
Felicia Devine: i You just kind of like get up and move on.
Natalie Richards: It's just why you do, why do you have to learn the hard way? Felicia. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: I don't know.
Natalie Richards: Oh man.
Felicia Devine: Yeah, I don't know.
Natalie Richards: But this was like, it's just so crazy how the universe works and how energy works and how all of this like fits together.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: It's just mind boggling to me.
Felicia Devine: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. I will say trust your gut.
Natalie Richards: Cause I was like, oh she's you know, it like wasn't twins and like, Oh, all this stuff.
Felicia Devine: Cause like, okay okay
Natalie Richards: And then it's like, no, wait, like it actually was.
Felicia Devine: it was my twins were there. They just couldn't figure it out.
Natalie Richards: It's just wild how everything works.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: It's so crazy.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: When you told me that, I was like crying that last call.
Felicia Devine: I know. i know. Because now it's like, wait, what happened?
Natalie Richards: So I was like, wait, this is insane.
Felicia Devine: And I was like, no, it was twins.
Natalie Richards: It's insane.
Felicia Devine: It wasn't twins, but it was twins, you know?
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: um But my biggest takeaway from that is like, you have to trust your gut.
Natalie Richards: yeah
Felicia Devine: Because the whole time I was like, I think I want an ultrasound. I think I'm feeling an ultrasound, which I had no desire, gut feeling about Giuseppe having an ultrasound at all.
Natalie Richards: who
Natalie Richards: yeah yeah
Felicia Devine: And I was like, yeah, like I'm just getting an anatomy scan to like make sure the home birth is going to be safe.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: This pregnancy, I was like, I just feel like I need an ultrasound. I just like, why do I keep getting like this gut feeling of an ultrasound? Well, that gave us some indication of what was coming.
Natalie Richards: There we go.
Felicia Devine: And then ah just like the whole like feeling like, twenty like, All my gut feelings have always led me to the correct place.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: And, you know, how many more do I probably get that I suppress or I don't listen to Probably a lot. But I'm grateful for the ones I do listen to, you know?
Natalie Richards: No kidding.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: No kidding.
Felicia Devine: Yeah, it's interesting. So listen to your gut.
Natalie Richards: It's just a crazy story. It's a crazy story. And thank you for sharing with the world, the world of people who listen to us.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny though. Cause I'm like, I was re listening to our last podcast, Natalie. And I was like, hopefully people aren't gross. I don't get grossed out by stuff, but I'm like, I was like graphically describing things.
Natalie Richards: No, I don't either. But yeah, it was like, ooh. I'm
Felicia Devine: And I'm like, that is disgusting.
Natalie Richards: sorry, everybody.
Felicia Devine: So if you listen to it and got grossed out, so sorry. i have no filter or like no shame
Natalie Richards: No, there's no like, no, there's no off limits topics in my mind.
Felicia Devine: When it comes to things, like I don't feel embarrassed about stories like that. Like I'm like, it happened. Like what's embarrassing?
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: But I realized that like that type of graphic description is not shared.
Natalie Richards: And some people are squeamish.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Or like people just say, oh, I had miscarriage.
Natalie Richards: People don't talk about it. Right.
Felicia Devine: Okay. Well, let me be the first to tell you that it's the scariest thing ever.
Natalie Richards: Uh, no kidding.
Felicia Devine: And like highly graphic and like you should take work off.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Like probably take it off.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Okay. Also, can we talk about something else too?
Felicia Devine: what
Natalie Richards: The the the DNC procedure in general, I was looking up, just I was just looking up, like, what are the recommendations post normal DNC?
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Oh, I'll tell you what they are.
Natalie Richards: says, return to work within a day.
Felicia Devine: Within a day.
Natalie Richards: You'll be fine. You'll be fine.
Felicia Devine: no literally, they said, you should be fine to go to work Monday.
Natalie Richards: I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Felicia Devine: I go, what?
Natalie Richards: Like, are you kidding me? You just had the... the Well, okay. We do have the lining of our uterus shed every month and we go about life as normal, but like you had literally like scraping procedure that you're just going to return to normal life within a day and that's fine.
Felicia Devine: No, but that was... That was Dyson vacuumed out.
Natalie Richards: Can you survive? Sure. but like the the bodily... the things that that does to your body, i don't think people, i don't think people realize that like there are energetic things that are going to you're going to be feeling for weeks and weeks and weeks after, like your body is healing from that.
Felicia Devine: Return to work.
Natalie Richards: Even, even if your period recycles and like you get your cycle again and everything seems to be good, like you're still recovering from that type of procedure.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: So i
Felicia Devine: The return to play for these things are crazy. Like it should be longer.
Natalie Richards: it's insane.
Felicia Devine: um When I had my repair done in October when I was five months postpartum and I went in to have a repair done.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: of my tear.
Natalie Richards: Yes.
Felicia Devine: I got that repair done on a Friday. She knew exactly what I did for work. We were very vocal about it. I was like, I am a chiropractor.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: I'm on my feet. I'm thrusting with my abdomen all day long.
Natalie Richards: Right.
Felicia Devine: Right. She told me Friday after the surgery, like after I was said and done and I came out cause like it ended up.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Richards: And she knew the extent of what she had to do.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. She goes, you can work Monday.
Natalie Richards: sorry.
Felicia Devine: I'm sorry. i was still on opioids on Monday.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: I'm sorry. I couldn't walk on Monday.
Natalie Richards: like
Felicia Devine: But you can't lift your child. So Seppi was like 15. No, Seppi was like 17 pounds and you couldn't lift more than 10 or something. It was something like I couldn't lift Giuseppe for like over 10 days.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: But they're like, yeah, you can go to work on Monday.
Natalie Richards: Right. You can go work. Whatever.
Felicia Devine: What?
Natalie Richards: ah God.
Felicia Devine: Maybe if I was a desk jockey fielding phone calls.
Natalie Richards: No kidding.
Felicia Devine: i I was like, okay, my PT reassessed me. It was like, you have to take three weeks off minimum. I ended up taking three weeks off.
Natalie Richards: Absolutely. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Minimum. And I still went back to work before I really should have.
Natalie Richards: Oh, my gosh.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. Before you really felt ready.
Felicia Devine: ah So I don't know what these return to play recommendations come from.
Natalie Richards: I don't know.
Felicia Devine: Probably a man.
Natalie Richards: Probably it's a man for sure. Who's never had it done to them.
Felicia Devine: Oh, I was just like, a day?
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: a day?
Natalie Richards: It's insane.
Felicia Devine: They're like, yeah, you'll be fine.
Natalie Richards: I know. Maybe because, yeah, there's no stitches with a DNC.
Felicia Devine: What?
Natalie Richards: i get it But like, what? Oh, also stands for dilation and curatage.
Felicia Devine: Curitage.
Natalie Richards: I said cerclage and I was like, it sounds like that.
Felicia Devine: I know. I was like, surclage is when you sew up your cervix.
Natalie Richards: Curatage.
Felicia Devine: Curitage. And then there's a D and E.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. DNE, which is dilation and evacuation.
Felicia Devine: Evacuation.
Natalie Richards: I'm pretty sure.
Felicia Devine: Okay. I know. Listening back to it I was like, I kind of sound like I'm all over the place because I probably was very scattered telling this story.
Natalie Richards: Well, you had a lot of ah lot of thoughts.
Felicia Devine: was like, I can't use all these big words.
Natalie Richards: You had a lot of thoughts.
Felicia Devine: And unfortunately, it was the first time I was really having to like learn about those things because A, I'm not in that profession.
Natalie Richards: Totally.
Felicia Devine: So like I have an excuse not to know the exact everything about a miscarriage, but I've also never experienced it.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: So like I had to learn about it really quickly.
Natalie Richards: Yep. Yeah.
Felicia Devine: yeah.
Natalie Richards: And to really grasp the concept of what a molar pregnancy is too, is not in our, not in our wheelhouse.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it was interesting. i was four centimeters dilated all on my own.
Natalie Richards: I know, but that's what happens in a miscarriage.
Felicia Devine: Man, because I was – yeah.
Natalie Richards: You will dilate to your body will dilate to however, however it needs to.
Felicia Devine: It needs to. Well, I guess because it wasn't coming out. It was like, well, maybe we need to be bigger.
Natalie Richards: Yeah. yeah
Felicia Devine: But I was like shocked. I was like four is a lot.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: It kind of explains like – I was telling Dan. It was like it wasn't like mini contractions happening. Like here's a contraction. it was one long contraction.
Natalie Richards: her
Felicia Devine: The whole afternoon.
Natalie Richards: Oh.
Felicia Devine: It was like, i was, i would be like sitting on the toilet and like Natalie, my back pain was so bad. i couldn't even sit on the toilet. So I would have to get up because I'm like, I'm in so much pain with my back that I couldn't sit.
Natalie Richards: Oh.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: It was so weird.
Natalie Richards: It's like the. Yeah, like that.
Felicia Devine: It was really odd, but it was, I think that was the contractions. It was just,
Natalie Richards: And I don't know if that also is normal for a a normal miscarriage.
Felicia Devine: I don't know what normal is anymore.
Natalie Richards: I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Felicia Devine: I'm just an abnormal encyclopedia.
Natalie Richards: Apparently. Gosh darn it.
Felicia Devine: who So I'll just keep being abnormal.
Natalie Richards: No more. No more.
Felicia Devine: Like I said, if this is like, if you're going through a miscarriage or if if a miscarriage happens to find you, don't listen to what happened to me.
Natalie Richards: no because it's very different.
Felicia Devine: Seek out your own medical advice. Seek out your own like team.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: Like don't just do what I did because I'm abnormal, but.
Natalie Richards: Mm-hmm.
Felicia Devine: I will say it was helpful to like Google blog posts of people's experiences. So maybe if people fall onto our podcast and hear my experience, it'll give it a little less of the unknown.
Natalie Richards: Definitely.
Felicia Devine: i don't know.
Natalie Richards: definitely.
Felicia Devine: But thanks for listening to my story.
Natalie Richards: Oh, yes.
Felicia Devine: That's the last of it. We'll be done with this segment.
Natalie Richards: or
Felicia Devine: We'll go back to more laughs and giggles.
Natalie Richards: Yes, we will. We will.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: It was good.
Felicia Devine: The next episode.
Natalie Richards: It was good to talk about it.
Felicia Devine: Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Good to let everybody know what the heck happened because it was oh crazy.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. And now we can close that chapter. And then,
Natalie Richards: Crazy.
Felicia Devine: I have, I always tell my patients this too, like if you don't fall pregnant one month, that just gives you another two, three weeks to like game plan how to be better, how to be a little 1% healthier, how to modify your lifestyle just a smidge so that when that pregnancy does land, it's just that much better.
Natalie Richards: Yes. Yes.
Natalie Richards: Yep. Yeah.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: um
Natalie Richards: And now you have a year to do that.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. And now I have a year to like optimize so many things.
Natalie Richards: Yeah.
Felicia Devine: I'm like, that's a gift.
Natalie Richards: Yep. And let Giuseppe get a little bit older and maybe that was meant to be, you know, like there's just, there's a lot of pieces to it.
Felicia Devine: That's a true gift. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There's so many gifts in it and I love the gift of opportunity.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: I really do.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Felicia Devine: And so this is my chance to like pivot and make a little bit stronger foundation for this next pregnancy.
Natalie Richards: Yep.
Natalie Richards: That's right.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. So yay.
Natalie Richards: i love it. i love the thought process. It's great.
Felicia Devine: Well, thanks for hanging out with us.
Natalie Richards: It's been great.
Felicia Devine: Yeah. We'll see you next time. Bye.
Natalie Richards: Bye.
