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Meghan Markle, Part 7
65 Plays3 months ago
It's our final episode on Meghan and Harry! We talk motivations for the choices everyone in the Royal Family may have made, and how they led to the family split.
Check out our YouTube channel Fixate Today: Grey Matters!
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Key Focus
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Fixate Today Gone Tomorrow. I'm Nikki and I'm here with my Aunt Joy. We are two neurodivergent ladies who obsess about various topics. Joy is autistic and I have ADHD and we are letting our hyper-fixations fly. Today we are fixating on Meghan Markle.
Theories on Meghan Markle's Trip and IVF
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome back. Another episode of Megan. I think our last, but we could go on forever, but we'll see how that goes. Exactly. All right. So you're taking the lead for this one because we're still talking a bit about the theory of yeah the babies. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm going to preface again, like every single time.
00:00:54
Speaker
When we are talking about egg donors, surrogates, any of that, it is not to say that these children are not their children. Absolutely. And it is not to take away anything um from a relationship or a bond or so. I do want to always make sure yeah we're safe. Yeah. A family's a family. A family's family, a parent's parents. I believe very much that they love their children. And they are their children.
00:01:23
Speaker
There are children, I don't think they love their dolls. I don't know if the children love their dolls. All right, so I'm just gonna, I'm going to like just recap a little bit because it actually been a few weeks with Christmas and all, holidays and all. So last time, so my big theory about Meghan and Harry, I guess, is that there is this weekend in August um that was meant to fly under the radar. It was supposed to be secret. It got out. got Somehow out it got out to the press um and then Meghan
00:02:00
Speaker
did her best to cover it.
Speculations on Pregnancy Timeline and Public Perception
00:02:03
Speaker
And she did so by using friendly journalists, maybe even by making deals with those journalists, aka Ole Miss Kobe, Carolyn Duran.
00:02:15
Speaker
um for them to you help cover it cover this trip, make it, um hide it away so people don't know about it. Still, it just so happened that this particular trip has is nine months to the day before Archie was born. So yeah my thought is, I think that whatever this trip was that she was trying to hide, there was she underwent some kind of IVF therapy.
00:02:45
Speaker
with a donor egg, with her own yeah embryos, I don't know. But I think that that is what's happening. Because before that, that's when we started to see her seemingly um misleading the public to assume that she was farther along than she was.
00:03:06
Speaker
which is what's always brought up. Okay, so the yeah, that's when we started hearing about the moon bump and we started hearing about like how she was going to use different hospital, different doctors. She was gonna have the baby at home. She wasn't going to show the baby when it was born. That's when all these this speculation started about what what was going on.
00:03:31
Speaker
She announced she was pregnant at, yeah was it Eugenie's? Yeah, yeah, I think Eugenie's. Wedding, which was very odd, but also even more odd because in reality she was only two months along and usually that announcement does not come or is assumed to come when a person is three months along. So it just, it really seems like she was misleading the public to think she was further along.
00:04:00
Speaker
There? Yes. What do you think? I think I could get on board, but the question I would have is why. And we talked a little bit about it, right? Like it's, it's you know, the rules of succession are murky. Right. And I think that, I mean, I am more, I don't know.
00:04:24
Speaker
conspiracy theories. Like, I am more conspiratorial. I have more doubt about it. It's conspiratorial, yeah, than you are. um I mean, I feel fairly confident, in my opinion, that something did happen. I do feel like that weekend, mid-August, she did get pregnant. You're right. How? Why?
00:04:52
Speaker
I don't know, but I also, I mean, also no, Harry was not there. So it wasn't the old fashioned way. Um, yeah. And so I guess the speculation comes about, okay, what, what else could that, could that mean? So, okay. So if we talk about it, right? So if she had IVF, yeah there could be several things, right? So she could have, it could have been an anonymous egg donor.
00:05:15
Speaker
You know, which, I don't know, kind of be, there's not a lot out there, at least in Canada, it's's it's kind of more of a US thing. um You know, I don't know how much is true, but in Canada, they say like, you don't get to pick, if it's anonymous egg donor, you don't get to pick the egg, what the doctor does for you, which then i made me think about like, why she didn't want to show, wouldn't want to show the baby. Like, oh my God, who knows what, who knows what happened to me. That seems a little too far off, but it's a fun thought.
00:05:50
Speaker
Uh, you know, then there's the idea of it was a known donation from somebody, a friend, a family member. Um, Jessica Mulroney. Okay. All right. Just throwing that out there. This was the person that weekend she was staying with, right? Yes. Yeah. And her best friend and ironically, it's Jessica Mulroney. Was it her father
Royal Family Secrecy and Succession Implications
00:06:16
Speaker
who was the, uh, prime minister?
00:06:20
Speaker
She had a connection to the prime minister but from maybe 20 years ago in Canada, which is funny because he started, ah he had a commission um to start like looking into reproductive rights. oh So yeah, it's really funny. So it's ironic if that was anything to do with it. But you know, that could have been, who knows? Also, okay. So then,
00:06:49
Speaker
getting a little crazier. It was said that, that Meghan had her eggs frozen. And then, you know, like, again, her sister made this claim that she had her eggs frozen and that she went in July to pick up the frozen eggs um from LA. There was rumors that when she went on to this, that she did go to LA right around the same time she went to Toronto. All that rumors. But, but the rumor is that she had these eggs frozen when she, around the time she was married to Trevor. And I think if you're gonna have an egg like if you're married to someone and you're gonna have something frozen aren't you gonna have like the embryos are they gamut like aren't the sperm and the eggs going to be together at that point well we talked a little bit about this last time like my thought was
00:07:38
Speaker
A lot of women do it when they're getting older and just freeze their eggs to to to then yeah go on to make the embryo. I think that the embryo process is a little but bit more expensive, that just freezing your eggs. All the Kardashians froze their eggs. They didn't freeze embryos.
00:07:55
Speaker
Well, it makes it more fun to think that maybe just maybe maybe just maybe that could be the reason for the secrecy. And the only way she could have a baby was to use these ah already formed embryos that are not Harry's. Okay. I'm not saying I think these things. I'm just like putting them out there. Right.
00:08:16
Speaker
Um, so yeah, so we're going to say that initially I think that Megan tried to hide this whole thing from the Royal family. Um, I'm going to add, I think Megan and Harry did. Yes. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I don't, I, it's really easy for people to like jump on the, we hate Megan train and not,
00:08:43
Speaker
not take into account that like they're a couple of making decisions together. So like if you are blaming Megan for all of these things, like, no, you're blaming both of them and you got to, you know, own that. No, so true. And in fact, I had a conversation with my mom similar to this about something else where it's it's easy to blame the wife, but it's the maybe in this case, this is his family. This is his legacy. You know, no matter what she did,
00:09:12
Speaker
how he handled it the situation ultimately is completely on him. so Right. Because I still believe that the whole thing is trauma-based. The entire falling a apart of this family is Harry not dealing with the trauma of losing his mother and everybody making assumptions about the intentions of everybody else without actually having a conversation. I think, yeah, youre you're you you feel a little bit more about the trauma base. I feel a little bit more about just general Harry's just insecure and not the smartest dude in the world. Which they can go hand in hand actually. Yeah, exactly.
00:09:50
Speaker
um so yeah I think initially they tried to hide it from the royal family. Then we talked about why they would do that because it would have inhibited his place in the line of succession. um how that You say succession so much better than I do. It's like the only word I say better.
00:10:12
Speaker
so you know that That being the assumption I'm thinking it probably had something to do with it because, yeah, the the rules do say that to be in the line that you have to be the natural born child of both the mother and the father. And that's something that could have been fixed, not fixed. Changed. Changed. But fairly simply, I think, by um a letters patent from the from the Queen Elizabeth. but Yeah.
00:10:44
Speaker
so And that's kind of where we left it last time is like, that's probably what happened. And then he they tried to hide it. The more they tried to hide it, then that upset, whatever, probably William who found it figured out first. um And then it probably, you know, if this is what happened, it alienated family. Yeah. And it went on too long. And then at certain point, then how do you you You know, you've put this out to the public and then, and you know, how do you take it back and yeah um make the situation right? I think we both agree that obviously the system needs to be updated yeah with modern medicine and and different ways that children are now. And simply like same sex couples. yeah I mean, it needs definitely need some updating. but um But so that's I kind of think the spot we stopped at.
00:11:37
Speaker
Yeah. look But what I think is there's maybe just maybe one more level to this. And I think that that it could have to do with actually legal implications, not just. Not just hierarchy and the royal family, but legal issues, especially with passports. I think it could have to do with Archie receiving his British passport and what the
Legal Aspects of Assisted Reproduction and Impacts on Archie
00:12:08
Speaker
implications were there. So being put in a position where now somebody is breaking a law. And if somebody's breaking a law or someone's at least opening up an investigation into what's legally going on, then we're at a whole new level. And we're at a level then that, you know,
00:12:29
Speaker
the king and queen, they can't. I mean, that's part of it. It's not like just a call they can make. So what, like, I guess I'm, can what' would what's not legal about Archie getting a British passport? Okay. We're getting there. Okay. Sorry.
00:12:44
Speaker
know No, no, I feel like excited. So first, like I'm going to kind of give you a little but background. So the new thought in general with IVF and um donated eggs and donated sperm is that it is wrong to keep that information um anonymous, that it's not fair to the child.
00:13:07
Speaker
that they should know they are they were conceived that way and that they should have the right to be able to and search out and find their biological parent. It shouldn't be necessarily anonymous. I don't know, what do you think? First, first before, like what do you think about, do you have thoughts on that? I think some donors do it anonymously and don't want to be found.
00:13:34
Speaker
but That is definitely like, yeah, you that is definitely the case. And the countries who have started ah um changing the law so it is not anonymous definitely have seen a decrease in the number of people willing to donate. Yeah. And I can see the health side of it. I have a friend who was adopted. And when he started having children, he had to kind of go to his adoption agency and be like, I need to have some information about my biological parents because I need to know health information.
00:14:10
Speaker
So I can see it on that end, but I also like the flip side of it for me is. It's like what is a kid mature enough to know that they were adopted type of thing like like leave. So that kind of like leaving that to the family to make that decision about when the rest of the family is emotionally ready for that instead. I don't know. That's that's tricky.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I think in the past we've had the question a little bit more about the health reasons. I think yeah the current conversation is a little bit more about ah mental health, really, and the child knowing where, you know, just filling in that void in their life. and And some countries are starting to, actually even in the US, Colorado has changed the system now. So it is not anonymous. They do not have anonymous um donated sperm or eggs. so um Interesting conversation that's very much going on seems like in general that is the way that we will, the you know the world will move in that direction. I don't have a strong opinion because I'm not in that situation, um but I can see the argument of
00:15:32
Speaker
a lot of people don't want the government in their family business. And this is like the government dictating the family stuff, but I can also, eat it I guess I don't have like a strong opinion one way or the other. I'd like to hear from people in the situation, like children who were, you know, things like that. Yeah. And then that, and that actually, that's what I, and then that's a lot of things is like, um, yeah, think about it. If you were.
00:16:00
Speaker
if you were one of these children, yeah right? and I mean, hopefully, it you know, what the recommendations are from mental health experts is that basically the child should always know it's not, you know, it's a little different from adoption. There's no, you know, just if they're always kind of aware of the situation. And then when they're 18, if they want to go follow up and actually, you know,
00:16:24
Speaker
um choose to you know meet or at least get to know or open a file then at that age. Because there are these horrific things happening. of like There's a Netflix documentary in the last year or two of a doctor who used his own sperm. oh and like People are using Ancestry dot.com and they're like, I have 25 siblings.
00:16:44
Speaker
her half siblings rather. And that's a really good point and part of this whole um possible change also because that information is out there. So rather than a child or I mean, even ah were ah an adult who know wasn't aware, finding this out and feeling like they have been led astray, lied to. well And also the mother, the the person, you know, the the one carrying the child. Is that a sex crime? Like, I would say it's a sex crime.
00:17:17
Speaker
But ah this is not having anything to do with Meghan and Harry. But you know it's a lot of a lot of questions that having the information up front would prevent. yeah A lot of things that that just knowing who the donor is just makes it all a moot point. Yeah. And I mean, I just I felt like it was just something I hadn't thought about before. And yeah yeah through this case, I kind of ah found it interesting.
00:17:47
Speaker
Okay. So, so every country has their own rules and laws about this and, uh, the passport office. So if you go to the British passport office guidelines, um, they have a whole packet on how to deal with applications involving assisted reproduction. And like it's a 19 page document just on this one thing, one little thing. And I've read through it over and over and.
00:18:17
Speaker
one big part of it. Okay, so when think about it, when you're getting your passport, you need the approval of both your mother and your father, right? I mean, and we see this where there's problems with it when parents are divorced, and then you know, you need both, both of them to write so. So it is It's a touchy thing and, and who is listed or who is determined to be responsible to, to okay, the passport is, it needs to be carefully monitored. So what, so some countries have specific legislation on who is recognized as the legal parents for the purposes of parental responsibility and nationality. Okay. So you can kind of, I think, see where this is going. Right. Okay.
00:19:04
Speaker
And they specifically list out, this is what got me, this is what got me on this. they They list out, for example, Canada gives legal rights to the person who donated the egg or sperm involved in assisted reproduction treatment, which means the donor may have to provide consent to a passport being issued and could be named on the birth certificate.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah, see, that's what I don't. I'm not a fan of that. like I don't know. If a couple has made the choice or been forced to make the choice to take this route, are you saying that the not biological father is then not the father? I don't think it's saying that it's more like on paper. audition like It's more like this is the mother, this is the father, but like a little asterisk. The donor would be listed as like another party. There's, so yeah, there is, there's, yes, of some sort. And not like listed as the father on the birth certificate, right? No, not that at all, but but it's almost like listed additionally or mentioned. okay so And I think this is still sort of being worked out how this works and what we should do.
00:20:26
Speaker
But going back to Megan and Harry. okay So if we're talking about Megan doing IVF yeah um in Canada and if it was not her egg, which it would beie it would seem a little weird to be hiding this that much if it was just her egg and in Harry's sperm. like It seems like a little strange to be hiding it this much in my opinion. So if she had a donor egg of any type, yeah, that's going to cause her a problem if they want to keep this all secret. Yeah. When it's time to get Archie a passport. Right. Makes sense? Yes. So.
00:21:09
Speaker
then it becomes a whole other level of a problem. So now, you know, they've you tried to withhold this information from the family, then the family found out, and then we have the whole issue with, okay, what do we do then about the line of succession in this case? But then it comes out, wait a minute, there's this whole other thing. And as much as you think like, okay, it doesn't sound like that big a deal. well The royal family cannot like get special treatment on this, right? like it's Well, and also everything for the royal family is a big deal. Right. I mean, this is not something that they can skirt in the law. Yeah. Like they can't not wear a hat. Everything's a big deal. Everything's a big deal. And everything, quite honestly, everything I hear lately is, it will bring down the entire royal family. Yeah, right. I mean, I don't know if it's always that.
00:22:04
Speaker
But, that you know, this is a new possibility, a new new angle at what what could have been going on. And I think because there's been to me when I think about like Meghan's not wanting to travel to Europe to refusing to travel back to England. And she says for other reasons, right, because of, you know, the way they've treated her and security and stuff like that. um She's also been very clear that the kids are not going to be traveling either.
00:22:34
Speaker
Again, I don't know. obviously Obviously the kids have a passport. Archie obviously would have an American passport, even if this was an issue with a British passport. Might it look a little strange? If why is this sixth in line for the throne child traveling on an American passport? I don't know. I don't know. right um But I do think it's something that has to be that we need to think about. And and so what it comes to is, like yeah, so re so under like over and over again through this process, it basically you over and over again, you have um like on the name, on any documents, and they will include documents from the fertility clinic that you need to make those available
00:23:22
Speaker
to determine who the parent is with with the responsibility to be able to give this just sign off on this child having a passport. gosh like I think that is too much. I completely understand and appreciate wanting the child to know their biological background. and a personal yeah But my goodness, do we need it on legal documents? That is extra. That's a lot. It is. It is. And i and you know in what they're saying, okay, so if some um if some countries put it on their birth certificate or some kind of notation, we deal with it one way. But if there's
00:24:08
Speaker
suspicion or if we know that it's happened, then we have the right at that point or the responsibility, I don't even know, to take it one step further and go to the fertility clinic and and verify that and then potentially need to get both, you know, get okay from from the donor.
Royal Dynamics and Public Perception
00:24:29
Speaker
Right. I don't know. I don't know what it's right or wrong, but but but that's what I've kind of been thinking about. And then it gets into like there's databases, right? Right. Like then you get into there becoming databases of this information.
00:24:48
Speaker
And I will be perfectly honest, when I read through the the different steps of the that the passport people need to go through, it's a little confusing because they do talk about different, like, researching and going through different knowledge bases and databases. so And it does say, yeah, just even if there's suspicion. So again, now taking it back to Harry and Meghan.
00:25:13
Speaker
This is gonna look really bad. Yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? So this is look really bad, especially the further the family's gone along with it, then it's really hard to reel back. And and this is legal. They certainly can't be breaking any laws. And when we're talking about having to research documents and paperwork, well, they can't not do that. You know what I mean? that They can't be an exception to the to the way it's handled, while others. Right. Yeah, these can't be an exception. But could they have been an exception?
00:25:50
Speaker
That's what I, like how many, I would be curious to know how many things the Royal in charge, Queen Elizabeth, now King Charles have made exceptions for in their family. And if that, and we talked a little bit about it. If that is again, if this is all what it is, could Harry have gone to them and been like, Hey, what can we do? And they're like, nothing. We're making an example of you.
00:26:19
Speaker
point taken yeah or yeah why did you lie to us in the first place no we're not gonna do it you know what I mean if you try to hide it from us that you know what we're done with it we're not gonna right um yeah I don't know I don't know um and yeah if it got found out it wouldn't be the best look be pretty bad look Well, the whole idea that like even if they said he's in the line of succession and he really technically can't be, because of if that was going to, quote unquote, bring down the monarchy again, which seems to be every everything these days, then yeah, actually breaking a law and going around this process, I would imagine would be even a bit worse.
00:27:06
Speaker
yeah And, you know, i I couldn't find this. I remember hearing that after um King Charles ascended the throne, there was a there was a visit. I don't know if it was from Parliament.
00:27:21
Speaker
or the prime minister, I mean, I know i think that the prime minister visits on a regular basis, but there was a, um it was like an extra visit that everyone was like, what, why would they have gone? I don't know. That was just something that was in the back of my head and like, oh, maybe it had to do with this. Couldn't confirm that, but yeah, just kind of in the back of my, in the back of my mind. Okay. and Just, I just want to give you an example though of like this,
00:27:47
Speaker
I don't know, this list, it's craziness. Okay, so this is when dealing with the application involving a child conceived using assisted reproduction um on the application management system. You must, number one, carry out a watch list check required, for example, on the children child and parents. Two, confirm the child's and their parent's nationality identity and entitlement to a passport in line with this and any other nationalities guidelines, which I think is the key there.
00:28:27
Speaker
um and confirm the identity of the person applying and confirm that they have the relevant um authorization and consent to apply for the passport on behalf of the customer. You must also check if a consent is required from more than one person in the application and involves a change of details or overseas law. So this is where it gets super complicated. It's not even just the UK law and and this this is where it happens. The UK has to honor Canada's loss. Canada seems to be more progressive in saying that they that they allow or that they are now requiring and that information to be made available to the child.
00:29:16
Speaker
um right so Then one more thing to think about. Another big thing when you get a passport is the parents details in names being different on the birth certificate from what is submitted as parental names on for passport.
00:29:38
Speaker
Then this brings me back to, okay, do we remember that whole thing about the name on the birth certificate getting changed? Yes. From like, remember they kind of, they removed Meghan Markle's actual Christian name and just changed it to the du does Duchess of Sussex. Yeah.
00:29:59
Speaker
And I mean, that was different. And i at the time, i didn't exact I don't exactly know. But i I feel like that was somehow or another to cover the fact that that biologically the child might not have been hers or of her body. Yeah. No. I mean, it was just a weird time. And the only change in the birth certificate that we know to have happened. Right. Right. I don't know. That's my guess. It's a guess. I, I'd want to see, um, William and Kate's, like, I'd want to know what's on their kids birth certificate. If it's Kate Middleton or if it's well, Duchess of Cambridge. It's Catherine Middleton Duchess of Cambridge. Whereas the part of Megan Markle or whatever Duchess of Sussex, the name Mark, the Megan Markle was taken off.
00:30:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's weird. And it was done like weeks like you weeks after it was originally filed. Yeah. okay So then this was a whole big issue, a different issue with getting a passport is having those names match up. And I don't know. oh Maybe could this have caused another problem? If the names ah So I'm thinking legally, using a passport into another country is the Duchess of Sussex, like a proper name that you can put on your passport as the parent name. You know what I mean? Like I get it within the UK. Yeah, that is. But when you come to the US, it's kind of meaningless as a mother's name.
00:31:41
Speaker
right So then if they don't match up, if the names don't match up on the birth certificate what with what has to go in the passport, there's a whole nother issue, a whole nother set of investigation that has to go into that. And at that point, could Megan just be basically pissed? There's a lot of talk about the fact that she did not want to that changed. It was not her which to have that change, she was baffled as to why it was changed. It was the um it was the palace, although then the palace says it wasn't them and it was representatives from Kensington. Anyways, don't know, but Meghan has insisted it was not her who wanted that change. That was not a- Yeah, you wouldn't want your actual name to be taken off your child first. That's what you say. Yeah, like why would I possibly want that?
00:32:29
Speaker
So then what? What if? And that caused her problems. If by them making that change, that caused her problems with then getting his birth certificate getting his passport. And again, then then bringing attention, bringing investigation, bringing and in more likelihood of it kind of the original deception.
00:32:54
Speaker
being uncovered. And how then you know you think back to at the the discussions about her, both of them, saying, you know, we are owed an apology from the family.
Race, Perception, and Royal Commentary
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah. It's just one more thing to think about. and And it is interesting when you read the through these all these different requirements to get something just like a passport.
00:33:19
Speaker
much less like nationality, but I don't think that part's a question. I mean, I think it's very clear that, you know, on his father's name and father's side. So I don't think that that is really a question, but I do think um more so the ah the name, the name of the Megan. Yeah.
00:33:40
Speaker
All right. So other thing that made me kind of wonder or just, I don't know, brought my attention. There was, it's been reported that once or at least twice, um, Harry had said to King Charles, don't you ever want to see your grandchildren again? Now I've written, I've heard that, you know, that's just a general threat, but also again, it would make sense if traveling was ever going to be an issue or if RG traveling at an on an American passport would be an issue. Second thing I thought of, um and we may have brought this up before, but if it was an egg ah egg donation, um the entire conversation about what the child, what Archie would look like and what his skin color would mean
00:34:30
Speaker
hu Seems to make sense. I mean, they, I don't think those are far-fetched conversations anyways, but I could see how extra concern would be brought to them if you are talking about this, the child being biologically not being niggens. Yeah. I, I'm still like firmly like that's wildly inappropriate for your in-laws to say.
00:34:57
Speaker
Like, yeah, i I think, I think regardless, I don't, I don't, I'm not super concerned about like the context of it. I think that's, that's not. and super yeah we We disagree on this. high Yeah. I, I, if, yeah, I just, I don't think that's. Okay. So you don't think that like, what do you think the baby's going to look I don't think that's the context. That's very different than asking about the baby's skin color.
00:35:22
Speaker
But it's all that. It's all word. It's all how we can use words. Yeah. We talk about this. We talk about this on, you know, with the Mike and Miller case and JP, you can, you can move, you can inflection and the words can come out somebody's mouth. Um, and then those can be construed many different ways.
00:35:41
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think exactly. i And that's why I think it's not an appropriate question because it can be misconstrued so easily. I think saying, what do you think the baby is going to look like is a very different question than what is the baby's skin color going to be, do you think, or something like that? Or I think those are very different questions.
00:36:00
Speaker
Okay, well, we can kind of agree and disagree on that. I don't think they're that different. But if you put it in the context of, wait a minute, we know, let's say, for example, this is Jessica Moroni's egg, who is a fully white person. Yeah. And we're talking about, well, you know, and you're talking about we're trying to hide this from the public.
00:36:26
Speaker
Do you think that's inappropriate or can you see how that, I can see how that would come up in a discussion, maybe especially in a heated discussion where you're already upset that something's been hidden from you. I think if there was a heated discussion, that should have been take that shouldn't have been discussed until everybody's calmed down because it will be so easily misconstrued. It doesn't super matter the intent.
00:36:49
Speaker
in a heated discussion like that about skin color. That's where I land is like, read the room, let's take a, take a beat. And then we'll return to this conversation and have like a conversation about how are we going to, to get the public on board with this, if there's some obvious differences in how everybody looks. Okay.
00:37:14
Speaker
Okay, i yeah I mean, I can, i I guess I tend to think, if you're calling things better or worse, um to spin it in the direction of it being a racial remark and um feeding that to the public is a little bit worse to me on the scale than having a discussion that may be a private discussion at home that maybe wording was misunderstood. But- Well, and that's the thing of like,
00:37:45
Speaker
unlearning your internal biases in terms of race is like that could have been an inadvertent microaggression, but it's still a microaggression. It's something that is in you that you have to unlearn that language. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Yes. So regardless of the intent, that's still something that you have to unlearn. And that in that sense, I do think it's an offensive question.
00:38:15
Speaker
And I, or, or the inability to recognize why she would see that as offensive is a problem also. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah. But then of course this comes to like, okay, if you're a little family, okay, you go through this and have this discussion and get angry, um, is announcing it to the world. You know what I mean? right That should not be the the the next step. I don't know. I mean, and I don't know, we're getting off topic a bit, but I also think with microaggressions and, and.
00:38:45
Speaker
using terminology that's proper and not offensive. To me, sometimes I think that's what makes people more uncomfortable about saying anything. And I don't think that's good either. i Yeah, I mean, let's say we're two white women. Also, let's just put that
Family Reconciliation and Public Scrutiny
00:39:03
Speaker
on the table. We don't know everything about no racial issues and the things we are pretty white, very aware of things and learning and but I think the willingness to, the willingness to learn, and this is the big thing, the willingness to apologize when you screw up. buts No matter how big or small, if if you say something that you don't know maybe is not acceptable, it's still fair to say, I'm so sorry I didn't realize that was something uncomfortable to say. Do you have a suggestion of something? I can say different or a resource I can use
00:39:41
Speaker
That's kind of because it's also not on the person of color or the marginalized person to teach you everything. But I think in having a conversation of, you know, with a graceful conversation for one another that is in a positive spirit, like that would be the ultimate thing that she could have said Can we have a conversation about why that question is making me feel uncomfortable? But it sounds like there was no room for that and in this family. And I mean, on both ends, I'm not blaming, you know, I think they both, I think everybody came in with bones ablazing. I just, I just, am well, right, like, I just, I feel like, and I keep going back to this, I feel like there's so many assumptions on all sides of how people are going to react.
00:40:30
Speaker
And people are like escalating themselves almost. like you know i like i Going back to the example of if William was mad that this happened and they didn't tell him, is he making stuff up, like making conversations up and then getting upset about that and assuming, yeah well, this is what he's gonna say. This is what Harry's gonna say about this. And I think that's happening. like thats I think there's so many misunderstandings.
00:40:56
Speaker
And especially when you're going through what people, you know, whatever private secretaries are talking for you. Right. Exactly. I mean, it's a lot easier to get mad at someone when you don't have to do it face to face or say something.
00:41:10
Speaker
And it's almost like, how has the family stayed together this long? and but yeah there's There's definitely like a not normal family component to this. But right ah yeah, so yeah, I guess to me when I read through, I mean, I just kind of went back and read through the the Oprah interview and I'm very conscientious of and of the words we use now and what we mean when we use words. And um yeah, and It is very interesting to read the part about yeah the skin color and and you know the titles and even what the word safety means. um
00:41:52
Speaker
You know, I, does safety mean physical safety, and like we're thought meant to, or does it mean safety like protecting him from the truth? I don't know. Um, I just think that we, and more and more with these big, um, headline catching stories, we just have to look back at the words because I think a lot of times the words are the words they're using are being understood differently or being taken differently. And I think on both sides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um And so, yeah, like and I am just looking at it right here and when, you know, Megan and make it was talking to Oprah and basically said, um you know, do you think that, what do you think? Do you think this is because of his race? And I know that's a loaded question and Megan replies,
00:42:42
Speaker
But I can give you an honest answer ah in those months when I was pregnant, all around this same time. So you have in tandem the conversation of he won't be given security and he's not going to be given a title and also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he's born. That sounds really, really bad. That sounds really, really bad. But if you pick apart the words and the meaning, I think it, the words don't, I don't think it's as bad as, as the words are sound, I guess that's what I'm saying.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah, and I guess perceptions reality also that, you know, um I think in addition to both sides, assuming the intentions of the other. I imagine also both sides like they're going home to their their parties in this battle so like Meghan's going home to Harry or Harry's going home to Meghan being like,
00:43:42
Speaker
This happened and she's getting pissed and he's getting more angry. And I think it's happening on the other side. I think probably between Charles and William are gassing each other up. Like, can you believe he did this? I can't believe he did this. And then they're going trying to figure out then life as a very, very public family. Maybe over dissecting each other's words or intentions or what you would when like, you know, whatever.
00:44:11
Speaker
the entire world's hearing them. Right. So like, just add that. Add that a little element. Right. Right. Well, I guess in like, if we wrap up up Megan and Harry here, I guess the whole thing to me is that I think What started off as a weekend and a that was hidden in which something happened that I think had something to do with Megan getting pregnant and then having the cover up along the way that
00:44:45
Speaker
got skewed and too like maybe too much attention brought to it and became a whole thing, whole took on a whole life of its own, right? And then then within the family that just like, that it just built up, it's snowballs, right? If you weren't honest with me, well, if you had just been honest up front, then this wouldn't have been an issue. And well, if you would have, you know, changed the, whatever, letters patent so that this wasn't an issue and been ahead of the game or made an example of how you know this this needs to be changed, um then it wouldn't be a problem. And then if you get like if if my you know theory on possibly a passport issue comes up and you're like, OK, well, now we're in the legal realm, we can't we don't write. So I mean, I think it's and then on a personal level, I mean, obviously just the breakup of the family. And I just think it goes to show how one,
00:45:42
Speaker
even white lie, probably more than a white lie on this one, but Ken Snowball. And and then i mean i mean even like who, it's it back to like Meghan and Harry are a couple and they don't have to tell the rest of their family anything. Like they don't, in in like if they're regular worlds, whatever Meghan Markle's in-laws aren't owed any information about how they got pregnant. So it's like balancing that of like, we don't have to tell you anything, but we do because you're the queen. Well, and you know, but we don't have to tell you anything.
00:46:27
Speaker
But then they're going to be repercussions, so you know what I mean? Like at a different level. Sure. They don't have, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, right. Yeah. You don't have to say anything, but then you also can't make assumptions that this is going to happen or that's going to happen. You know, right. Yeah. There's two different things. There's the family and you know, they kind of reminds me of, um,
00:46:50
Speaker
um When I was a pharmacist and people would always ah come in and the insurance wouldn't cover certain medication and they'd be like, well, my insurance is dictating what I can and cannot take now.
00:47:03
Speaker
And I always wanted to say, well, no, you can take it. They're just telling you what to pay for. yeah It kind of reminds me of that. Like, no, you can say it. That's fine. But, you know, the implications as far as the royalty. ah Well, that's a little different thing. So. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. So now download. What do we think is going on with them? Okay. Also, petty, petty, petty. The kids don't look alike.
00:47:30
Speaker
They don't, but my sister and I don't look alike. I know, but... I'll just cut it to one. No, you're true. You really don't look alike. We don't at all. You do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have the complete opposite traits from our parents. I'll give you that. I'll give you that, but I swear those kids don't look alike.
00:47:52
Speaker
um I guess that's it. Do you have any other Megan and Harry little commentary? You're being, you're more positive about them than I am. Yeah. I mean, I think, I, I think regardless of the pregnancy side of it, I think if they had been a regular not in the public family, they could have gone to family counseling and individual counseling and they could have gotten past it all. But because they are royalty and on the biggest stage in the world,
00:48:25
Speaker
They can't like, I don't think they'll reconcile. I don't think so either. I think, yeah I think there's a point where um ah then you can't come back. I hate to say it. But I think if they weren't famous, they could, but this, that element of it, I don't, I don't think And the saddest part is Charles is not a young man. He, you know, hopefully he lives for a long time. But I mean, as he was reported to have said, you know, don't make my last years miserable. Um, and I think as a parent, can you imagine anything worse than, um, then your kids hating each other yeah or that much bitterness? But at the same time, you can see every one of them's point of view. and And that just, it's all about putting our egos aside and looking
00:49:14
Speaker
at life from another person's point of view. I'm sure it already has trickled down to the that babies, the kids. like They don't know each other. The cousins don't know each other. and I think if they ever reconnected, there would probably be the same wall that Harry described in Spare
Impact on Royal Relationships and Future Reconciliation
00:49:34
Speaker
of William resenting Harry because William had to live a more dignified, like he had to follow the rules more than Harry, but then Harry resenting William because he got all these opportunities. Like I can't imagine with this rift now, if the cousins, you know, as even as like teenagers or adults reconnected, right that there wouldn't be a part of it because it just, yeah. And that makes me sad though. yeah It makes me really so sad. you feel It feels like you hope the next generation can at least
00:50:08
Speaker
Yeah, but I can just- Or you at least as parents encourage yeah that your your children to you know move on from that. And it that's still like when it comes to your cousins or even though me, I have a problem with whatever your father, I being willing. I was like me.
00:50:30
Speaker
So, uh, even though I have a problem, I, I don't, that does, I want you guys to be close. I don't ever want to take away the closeness or love that you, you should. Yeah. I would hope that too. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, beyond that, I do think do felt bad for Harry. I think he wants to reconcile. I think it's going to be really hard for him to do so. Yeah. But.
00:50:52
Speaker
it's all hard. I was hopeful this I mean, the way I just phrased in my head sounds horrible. I was hopeful when Kate came out with her cancer. That's not what I mean. But I you know, sometimes uh, those big life scares or shakeups will bring people back together. And maybe I mean, I don't know, maybe there has been more communication. I think, I think I heard somewhere that one of them, either Harry or Megan reached out directly to Kate during it all, but I don't know. I don't know. And it could go either way, right? yeah Because if you're already, if you felt like, okay, this person has insulted my wife and thrown her into the bus and then my wife gets cancer yeah and
00:51:36
Speaker
I hate you. yeah You know what I mean? like i did so yeah That's a big sad story. I know. Everybody needs therapy privately. Private therapy. Yeah. All right. So maybe someday we'll do a happy story. I know. That was more of it. We were like, let's do a light one, Meghan Markle. And now we're sad. We were looking at our families and our egos. and And realizing a lot of things are hard to fix. Yeah. But take the lessons I guess we can from them. And I think everybody, you know, can, it seems like all parts of the royal family can take, almost put blinders up to this and they seem like content and happy in their lives. And that's okay too. Individually. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Maybe. Yeah. I think in their own little families,
00:52:30
Speaker
ah you know But it almost seems like together in the extended family, that's not even a normal, like there's no way to make that a normal family.
Reflections on Challenges and Opportunities for Change
00:52:38
Speaker
you could Yeah, maybe you and your kids. right you know, that part of it. and But it's, and you know what I the other thing that I think is kind of nice, and I'm hopeful about something one positive thing um is I think, what is it, Edward, the young guy? Yeah, yeah. other And Sophie, who seems like she's just a total normal yeah person. And then step like having stepped up and
00:53:02
Speaker
ah like after being out of the limelight, but then first of all, not having the ego to be upset that they weren't in the limelight, but then now when the family needs them stepping up and um helping out. I do think that that that's a that's ah that's a positive, nice yeah nice story to come out of the family that I feel good about. yeah Agreed.
00:53:22
Speaker
Anyways, all right. Okay, well, I think that's it on Megan and Harry for now. I mean, i good this was kind of a little one kind of fun, but um yeah. All right. So what are we doing next? So next we are going to be doing the Duggars and the IBLP at Bill Gothard. Goodness. Yes. It's going to be.
00:53:47
Speaker
bigger one, not as big as Micah, but bigger, I think, than Ruby and Jodi. Okay. um oh Oh, go ahead. That book's coming out. I know. I'm so excited. I know. I'm going to get it. Okay. Anyways. I am very good friends with the person at my work. I work at the library, ah orders the books, and I call her book mom. And so when I want a book, I'll just go up and go, Hey book mom, can you get me this book? She orders it for our library because she's the best.
00:54:17
Speaker
and help um my It's releasing on the 7th. That's pretty sad that I know that, but oh, I know too.
00:54:24
Speaker
We're talking about Sherry Frankie's book. I don't think we actually saw it. Yeah. The whole point was moving on, but we will go back, I think, and we'll do the book. We'd like to do some follow-ups as information and new things come out. Yeah, but I would definitely like to read the book and talk about it. But the Duggars. Yes, we're doing the Duggars. The biggest part of what I did my research on was the actual trial.
00:54:53
Speaker
because of Josh Duggar's trial, because I think it is such like, it's like a microcosm of the IBLP, which is their, the Duggar family's church, some say cult, a lot of say cult. And yeah, so I, if somebody, I always say, if somebody said to me,
00:55:15
Speaker
we need you to get on stage and give a 10 minute speech about literally anything right now. I could say, okay, I'll do it on the Duggars. It's like Ben, one of my all time fixations, even like before the scandals, I watched all the shows being like, these people are wild. That's yeah. And and to be honest, like I'm not, I don't know much about the Duggars. So this can be kind of a different, this is a completely Nikki facts of fixation. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I'll just be,
00:55:45
Speaker
Long for the ride. I will be. I can't wait to hear a lot of it. Just a heads. I mean, a lot of people know about the Duggar. So it's some harder material, but it's fascinating. And we're not going to go into like explicit detail about anything, but there will be some trigger warnings as most of you know.
00:56:10
Speaker
I mean, I'm excited. I'm excited to learn something. And to be honest, Micah, do you remember way back in the beginning, Micah was one of those where you were convincing me to like, you were into it, it was your fixation. And we were like doing it, like almost like challenging me to see if I could get into it. Well, i I remember texting you being like, I need you to solve this.
00:56:35
Speaker
Far, like, do we know that all these, you know, episodes later and that, gosh, it's, I'm still fascinated by it. There's so much more to be left and told in the world. So um yeah, we'll see. Maybe I'll be a Dugger specialist. Yeah, right. After this.
00:56:51
Speaker
It could only be a job. Gosh, I wait. You know what? If I could get rid of the information I have stored in my head or like song lyrics, I could have like done math. But it's full of duggers and musical lyrics that have just taken over my brain.
00:57:07
Speaker
and Well, and that's why this is fun because you know, this is how it kind of started because we did have all these crazy things in our head. And let me tell you that your family really doesn't want to hear about them. and like a single And you and I were interested in a lot of the same things. So we actually had someone to talk about and felt like- Or even when we're not interested in the same things.
00:57:29
Speaker
We get so excited, we want to hear it from the other person. yeah When you get excited about something, I'd be like, tell me everything. Except, except so when you have, I think when you're like us, um your fixations cannot always be targeted. They just happen.
00:57:45
Speaker
I'm very interested in the Garks right now and the Ukrainian war. And you do not want to hear about that, do you? That's actually not true at all. I'm really fascinated by Russian history. And and another 10 minute speech I could give with no ah no preparation is ah about the murder of Czar Nicholas and his family and Rasputin. I could, yep.
00:58:11
Speaker
I could tell all about that, too. All right. Well, we have so we have so much that may be like. All right. That would have fourth on that 10th. There may be a day where we are talking more about Russia because ah that'll accidentally be another not even accidentally be a 20 parter just because. OK, let's talk about Russian history. all of russian history There's just this little thing. Yeah. All right. Well, we'll start. Duggers coming up. We will re come back to Ruby and Jodie, Micah, probably a lot. And with Megan and Harry, any big changes? We'll come back to that. We'll see if they do anything exciting. Or have a major breakdown. Well, everybody, thank you for listening. And we'll pop back into your feeds next week. Don't forget to check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today, Gray Matters. And we will see you guys next week. Take care.