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7. The One That Helps You Feel Like You Again
37 Plays1 month ago
Ever feel like you're running on empty but can’t quite explain why? In this episode, I sit down with my naturopath Sarah for a real, grounding chat about what’s going on beneath the surface—especially for women and mums who are feeling burnt out, wired but tired, or just not quite right.
We dive into what your body might be trying to tell you, how modern life can push us into survival mode, and why it’s not all in your head. Sarah shares the signs to look out for, the simple shifts that can bring your nervous system back into balance, and why the path to healing often starts with slowing down (even just a little).
It’s the kind of conversation that might just have you saying, “Wait… that’s me.”
Whether you’re navigating the thick of mum life, juggling too many tabs open in your brain, or just craving a deeper sense of wellness—you’ll walk away feeling seen, supported, and a little more like yourself again.
In this episode, we chat about:
• What burnout really looks like (it’s not just exhaustion)
• How your body communicates when something’s off
• Why nervous system health is at the heart of true wellness
• The difference between pushing through and tuning in
• Gentle, everyday ways to start feeling better—without overhauling your whole life
Want to find out more about Sarah? Find her at https://www.sarahchelle.com/ or on socials @sarah_chelle_
Want to get in contact with Victoria? Find her on Instagram @the.victoria.r or Facebook - Victoria R.
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Transcript
Introduction to Sarah and Naturopathy
00:00:37
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the Mindful Educator podcast. I am about to interview a very exciting guest and she has been mentioned several times already, and especially in the first few episodes.
00:00:51
Speaker
So today I am going to be speaking to Sarah, who is my naturopath, and I'm really excited for this one She's a wealth of knowledge. She has been instrumental in helping me get back on right um the right track, i'm getting my health back in order.
00:01:06
Speaker
And I'm just, yeah, i'm really looking forward to having a chat with her today and being able to share her with you guys too.
Sarah's Journey into Naturopathy
00:01:14
Speaker
So without further ado, here's Sarah.
00:01:19
Speaker
right. I'd like to introduce everyone to Sarah, who is my naturopath. Hello, Sarah. Thank you for joining me. thank you so much for having me Now, i did mention, i did like a little pre-intro and I did mention that I have already mentioned you a lot.
00:01:33
Speaker
In my podcast. Just because of the fact that you have been such a great help to me over the last three odd years that we've been working together and that you have been...
00:01:45
Speaker
a key reason why I have made so many changes, positive changes in my life as well. So ah just wanted to firstly say that, totally fangirling over here.
00:01:56
Speaker
um And I just wanted everyone that is listening to the podcast to get to know you as well and to kind of find out bit about your story, what's led you to doing what you do and yeah, how we've kind of ended up working
Understanding Burnout vs. Tiredness
00:02:08
Speaker
together. So would you like to tell us a little bit about you?
00:02:12
Speaker
Sure. um I guess in essence, it's like, well, one, being an anthropopath, but I think it all kind of like started for me because back when I first started unions, figuring what I wanted to do, and I went into laboratory medicine thinking like, I love research. I love the understanding of like why things are happening at that deep level.
00:02:34
Speaker
But turns out it was still in the medical world. So it was still very superficial of research not getting much further. and it's only when I stumbled across naturopathy and had no idea what a naturopath was, had no idea about herbs, nutrition, anything, but it felt really right. And then when I dived in and actually started the degree and having that of understanding the root cause of things rather than constantly just band-aiding symptoms or giving stuff that then causes other symptoms anyway, but actually being like,
00:03:04
Speaker
okay, this is why we feel this way all the way down to the nitty gritties of like the enzymes and the actual core reasons to be like, oh my God, like health is actually really, really easy when you understand that stuff and focus on those things.
00:03:19
Speaker
So I think it then just bloomed and it became my whole world and something i then absolutely love. And I think I've always been prone to being Like in school and in uni, I was always called like the stress head and the type A and the perfectionist and, you know, needed to have all the highest grades possible.
00:03:38
Speaker
And to this day, I'm still like, ah I did this whole degree to like, you know, graduate with high distinctions. And no one has ever seen it because I work for myself. So I'm like, what's the point? But I think having all that and then coming into this world and then seeing really the impact cortisol has on that deeper level and really understanding that of how that stress response and being that high functioning stress person in society has gifted me so many amazing things in the world in order to run a business and start things and be able would to like prompt those things.
00:04:17
Speaker
But then I've also seen those really dark sides when I have pushed it too far and gone into quite severe burnout stages to be like, oh crap, like I'm not invincible. There is stuff that can happen if I keep pushing through.
00:04:32
Speaker
But also the the body's easy to repair itself and that I don't then get stuck in, okay, I'm in completely exhausted, feeling flat and emotionless, brain foggy world.
00:04:45
Speaker
I then got out of it really quickly within six weeks. And I took so much of that for granted because I just thought everyone knows this stuff and everyone does this stuff. yeah Until I started ah talking about it and people were like, holy crap, like I've been in this state for two years or a lot of mums are in it for six years until their kids start schooling.
Overcoming Burnout: Tips and Nutrition
00:05:05
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, no, no, there's some really like...
00:05:09
Speaker
screw the biohack screw all that stuff was like there's really easy things you can get into so I think that's really what brought me to what I do today and what I absolutely love doing and most of I think the joy comes from i guess restoring that hope but also cracking that belief of I feel like crap and I have to continue to feel like crap when it's like oh no like you can actually have moments of feeling really really good with really, really easy things to get you there.
00:05:36
Speaker
And it's just spawned this entire business and everything I do. And yeah, that's kind of a sum up of me. In a nutshell. And I think this is what I love as well is the fact that you know what it feels like. You've been there yourself. You've experienced...
00:05:52
Speaker
burnout and yes you are able like obviously you've got that knowledge that you are able to get yourself out of it but the fact that you work with so many women that are experiencing burnout and like I didn't know what it was until I started working with you i had no idea what was going on with my body and yeah like a lot of your clients I'm guessing a lot of them are in this same boat so how do we know the difference between being burnt out and just being overwhelmed or tired like how do you know the difference between the two probably the best and key way to at least have like a baseline figuring it out is burnout is repetitive it is that every day it is something you're going to be experiencing for at least 60 plus percent of the week whereas if it's just overwhelmed and tired it's more something that you might be getting 20 30 percent of the week like it's very transient it can come and go like i've cried a crap night's sleep or
00:06:52
Speaker
I'm a little bit deficient some nutrients. Okay, I'm just a bit tired
Mindfulness and Nervous System Support
00:06:55
Speaker
today. But then it bounces back quickly. I always find like they're sort of the best identifiers to know where you might be.
00:07:03
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Now that's good to know because I know um just like through conversations that I'm having with lots of people since even starting this podcast, a lot of people are like, oh, I can really re relate. And it it's interesting. I think once we start talking about it obviously it gives people – that not only information but also that permission to look at their lives and go oh okay so maybe what I'm experiencing isn't so normal so if they are finding that perhaps they're leaning more towards the burnout side of things what would you recommend that they do in in that case like what are some starting points for them
00:07:40
Speaker
And so this is always, it's the hardest place to start because the most potent things are going to be really unachievable, necessarily in life, but more in the mind. Like a lot of the mindsets going to get in the way of, you know, the most potent way to get out of burnout and come back is rest because it's your cortisol that needs to come back to life. Like at that stage, you haven't got high cortisol anymore. Yours has crashed completely into the low territory and like anything, it needs time.
Teaching Emotional Regulation to Children
00:08:09
Speaker
to replenish and the more that you keep doing the more that you keep using it so I'd love to say rest but I know how unachievable that is for pretty much 99% of people who are in burnout because it's like your to-do list you're drowning in it you're so behind and everything it's just not likely so what I usually focus on at this point is we need kind of those really potent quick wins to recharge you even if it recharges you back to about 10%, just to give you more capacity to then get through your to-dos, get through things so that you do have time available to then start doing the rest and kind of coming into that.
00:08:45
Speaker
So those type of things are like mini mindfulness. And I'm like, if you can even do, it's three minutes while you're in the shower, amazing. Like a little five minutes before you go to bed, anything just to kind of help reset yeah that level back down and i think the biggest like as much as ah kind of talk about rest I feel like a lot of people still believe rest and mindfulness all these kind of come across as a luxury.
00:09:13
Speaker
Like, oh, that'd be nice to do. Or like when I find the time for it, I can sit in that Zen pose and get all the good things going. But I really want to preface it by saying the science behind it of why mindfulness rest actually isn't a luxury. It's actually an essential basic part that you need to be doing.
00:09:31
Speaker
And a lot of it comes down to, you because when you're at that point of burnout, you've been undergoing such high amounts of cortisol and stress for a long period of time, which has then crashed and you're basically in that full depletion mode. And what happens to your brain in that phase is that constant cortisol dysregulation actually shrinks parts of your brain in your prefrontal cortex, which is to do with decision-making, helping with emotional regulation, being able to adapt to new challenges, which is massive, especially with mums and people going into new careers and being able to do pretty much all those executive functioning abilities and have logical emotional reasoning.
00:10:09
Speaker
And on the flip side, when you're experiencing that dysregulated cortisol, your amygdala, your fear center gets larger. So you have more pronounced anxiety and fear responses. You basically have a hypervigilance. And when stress comes in, you have an amplified stress trigger response rather than a small one.
00:10:28
Speaker
So it's like that three list to-do list or seeing a dish in the s sink feels like a monstrous stressful, it's too much to handle rather than it being a logical response of like, oh, okay, one extra dish or annoyed at the person who left it there or just put it in the dishwasher type of thing. Yeah.
00:10:44
Speaker
So the biggest reason I'm a really, really big advocate for mindfulness and rest is because it reverses what happens in the brain. So any state of mindfulness will shrink the amygdala and enlarge your prefrontal cortex again. So that You can actually have appropriate stress responses. You can feel calmer. you can do all that because kind of like we could do all the things to try and, you know, mitigate feeling overwhelmed and shorten our to-do list.
00:11:10
Speaker
But if our brain is going to be in this hypervigilant response, like we're only going to get so far with it. So that rest is important. And if it is literally just three minutes, like sometimes with clients when they come in, I'm like, if it's one minute that you're just having a coffee that you just don't look at your phone and you do three breaths, amazing.
00:11:28
Speaker
Start small, start basic, but super, super, super important in some shape or form. Yeah. Then the other flip side that I suggest people start with is the nutritional side, because if your body is going to be deficient in certain things like vitamin C and magnesium are your top two, you are essentially going to keep having a stress response because the depletion of both of those, again, make your bright brain hyper responsive and hyper triggering to stress.
00:11:58
Speaker
And you can't make and balance your cortisol without them. So if you were in a constant depletive state, which when you keep making cortisol, you do deplete your magnesium and vitamin C reserves and it becomes a vicious cycle of making it worse.
00:12:12
Speaker
There's kind of no life raft to get out of it. Like you're swimming for the top of the water. There is no floating to hold onto and you can't keep trading water. I'm like, they're always the top two.
00:12:23
Speaker
I'm like, we don't need to make more to your life. Like like your life is busy. You're already depleted. So like take a vitamin C and magnesium supplement and find tiny pockets of rest. Even if it's once a day for one minute,
Holistic Health Assessments vs. Conventional Evaluations
00:12:37
Speaker
it's a really good starting ground. And normally using those, you can find within one to two weeks, people start having capacity, come back again to then be able to do some of the harder stuff that requires a little bit more mental thought and effort to actually, and I'm talking maybe just having breakfast, but that's hard to do when you're in such a foggy state.
00:12:54
Speaker
So start with the really, really small things. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Because Yeah. I mean, obviously wait working with you. I know what I was like when we first started working together and yeah, something so, what which comes so naturally now, i was like, Oh gosh, there is no way that I'm going to be able to do that. And you, you were so good in how you very gently, very slowly, let's just implement this. And I really admire the fact that you do it that way because has been a great help. sorry you know, I wouldn't be where I am if we didn't start off that way. So thank you for
00:13:28
Speaker
approaching it in that manner. Otherwise I'd have to be like... Because I feel some people come and I'm like, oh, they're looking for like the magic solution, this amazing creative thing that they haven't thought of. And I'm like, no, it's just the basics.
00:13:45
Speaker
But it's, yeah, trying to get you to do it when... It does feel hard, especially when it comes down to the mindset of feeling guilty if you don't do it. That's thing with rest.
00:13:57
Speaker
It's like, I feel guilty if I'm going to take a rest when I have a full dishwasher to unload, if I've got all these things to do. So it's like, ah, most of it's, That's slowly bringing in, not necessarily because the capacity is not fully there, but because the mind's going to keep this brake pad to be like, nah, you're not allowed to do this because we're going to make you feel absolutely horrible.
00:14:18
Speaker
If you try it, it's like, oh, but it's so healing. yeah through And you just got to show your brain that you feel so much better when you do it. But it's baby steps. It takes time. especially because we're in a society where it's kind of wearing busy is like a badge of honour and it's not it's not at all it's yeah if anything we need to kind of stop that it's not a badge of honour and um yeah almost give ourselves that permission to say yeah it's okay to rest and I know for me that took a very long time to actually get to that point and I think this is kind of what you're saying as well, like it's not a quick fix solution, isn't it?
00:14:50
Speaker
is it It's got to be something that we know is going to take time and especially changing our mindset and the way we think about things like rest and like looking after ourselves because it's Yeah, it's kind of one of those things where we're just expected to push through and we can't.
00:15:05
Speaker
oh Yeah, and it's even as like a kid, and i always come back to a lot of clients, like I would sit there, you know, you're chilling out as a kid. and i'm probably thinking more like a teenage level.
00:15:19
Speaker
But if you hear the front door or you hear someone come home, i feel like I've got to look busy. Otherwise you come across as lazy, you know, you're not pulling your way, you know, oh, you've got nothing better to do. Okay. Well you can be doing X, Y, Z. And it's like, I just weren't like chilling and resting. It's a shame it's become such a demonized thing when Yeah, it's so beneficial for you. And I think that whole, we want it to be like, there's always those quick wins we can try and bring in to get people feeling better as soon as possible.
00:15:53
Speaker
but it sort of needs to be that slow, progressive change. And I'm much more for, I think, like those micro changes than I am the big, okay, like, okay, I'll just do a whole overhaul of my life and go completely cold turkey with things. I'm like, you're not going to keep that going past day 21.
00:16:09
Speaker
And that means it's not going to become part of your life. And it's always the biggest sort of compliment when clients come to the end, they're like, oh God, like I didn't even realize the changes I was making. But now it is so second nature and now it's just happening and I continue to feel good. I'm like, that's what we want. We want it so that you can live your life not having to think about all these things you're supposed to be doing, yeah but you continue to feel good because they're easy.
00:16:33
Speaker
it fits into your life and actually feels fun to do. Then, you know, always having to watch you die, always having to watch everything you're doing, always having to be kind of on that defense rather than yeah opposite of defense.
00:16:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:48
Speaker
i't I know. I'm like, I probably should know that. You were smart somehow.
00:16:58
Speaker
Oh, I love it. So I know one thing when I did start with you, you were probably the only person like health professional I've ever worked with that actually was really comprehensive in finding out my background, my history, all the rest of it. And It's really interesting because I've been speaking to friends lately and but kind of like, why isn't this the norm? Why isn't this a standard practice? When you go and see a health professional, why are we not getting that whole holistic point of view and understanding exactly where people are coming from? and
00:17:31
Speaker
I know that helped you kind of form a picture of where I needed help and what's happened and all the rest of it. also helped me understand a bit better because as I was talking to you, I was like, ah, that makes sense.
00:17:42
Speaker
I can kind of understand now why I've ended up where I am So is that something that you're still doing and, you know, what's the benefits for... us going to a health professional and being able to say our whole history, like how does it assist you guys essentially?
00:17:57
Speaker
i think like it really does paint the exact picture of where you're at. Because we could take a collection of five symptoms, like, okay, I'm tired, I'm brain foggy, I'm easily overwhelmed, I'm not sleeping great, I'm feeling irritable.
00:18:13
Speaker
they could fit into so many different root causes that we don't know about. And so I think for me, having that picture, it's one, your family history gives us a really clear indication of genetically what systems in your body might be a little bit more susceptible to ill health stays, whatever's going on. Like there's so much we don't know about genetics, but there is a lot we do know when it comes to epigenetics and passing on those genes.
00:18:41
Speaker
So it's like, right, You often find people who have gut issues usually have it in the family. Those who have a pregnancy for feeling anxious or low you usually have it in the family.
00:18:52
Speaker
So it can really help depict like, okay, is this because some random big unusual stress happened in your life? And it's like, cool, we just need a fix. the cause of that, like that stress is now gone. we just need to fix the aftermath or is it okay? You have some genetic undercurrent that's always going to make you susceptible.
00:19:12
Speaker
So even if we put the tools in place to kind of help where you're at now, it's something that's probably still going to need some form of management long-term. And so I think that family, like family history for one, but then also your childhood history and your teenage history are the most important years ever because kids are bloody resilient. Like they bounce back, they can do things. So if there's anything showing up in those years,
00:19:39
Speaker
we know more than likely there's some genetic component going on. There's some structural something that's always going to be an issue for your long term. So we find like kids that were constantly sick in those early years up until about like 10, it's like, okay, your immune system, there's some kind of dysregulation. You do have some kind of low level ontocaryngology. There's something
Managing Emotions and Stress Reduction
00:20:00
Speaker
always there.
00:20:00
Speaker
So your immune system means you are always going to be the one more likely to get sick as an adult and as you go on. So it just really, really, i think, helps paint that entire picture. And by the end of it, when you have like that full history, you can really start to then pinpoint like, okay, I know exactly what root causes are going on for you now versus anything kind of just random and throwing stuff at the wall and hoping that it fits.
00:20:26
Speaker
So I think often like that and probably blood tests give us the biggest answers to like and immediately be able to go like, okay, you're telling everything that's going on. Oh yeah, this is what's happening to you.
00:20:37
Speaker
And it does throw my mind sometimes when clients come in and like they've seen the doctor and the doctor's like, oh, from bloods, this is what's happening. i'm like, oh no, you have nothing else that supports the theory, but everything you've got supports XYZ theory instead.
00:20:51
Speaker
it's like, I think it just becomes really reductionist if you only look at the here and now without looking at the past. And i think the other really, really big one, which I'm hoping will make its way the normal healthcare system at one point, is the level of like stress exposure or whether it's big T little T trauma that younger years can go to up until about eight or nine can really change the rewiring of the brain.
00:21:23
Speaker
So if they're in that state, they're always going to have that more hypervigilant response to stress and mental health further in life. And having that, it's already like an instant of like, this isn't who you are. This is just because your brain got rewired and we can do things to rewire it out and help restructure that wiring. So it's just, yeah, it just feels very bandaid slap. And if we don't look at those things.
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah. And I know I definitely felt that like before coming to see you, I had tried, um ah did see another naturopath before you and it literally was like a ah bandaid solution. I think it's like anything in anyone's industry, there's the good, the bad, all the rest of it.
00:22:01
Speaker
And I was a bit like, oh and then it was interesting because then I did take the bloods to union and what I think the big thing that I was like oh my gosh so for years I had always felt felt really tired and I was always told yeah everything's fine all your levels are fine like you're just kind of imagining it and then I remember showing you and you're like oh no like there's a few things here and I'm like What?
00:22:25
Speaker
For all these years I've been told I'm fine, but I know a big thing for you is that you obviously as a naturopath, you look at things a lot differently than what um doctors do and the levels are different as well. So what the doctors may deem as normal level, you don't. You guys look into that a little bit more and I know that was like, that was like, oh, mind blowing. Yeah.
00:22:47
Speaker
oh And I'm like, why? Why is there no consistency? And why is it that, you know, you see this and you're able to prevent things before they kind of end up where we're needing kind of like the major things from the doctor. Like it, I don't know, could go down a tangent on the health system, but I'll bring myself in a little bit.
00:23:08
Speaker
But I think that's just a really interesting point to know is that obviously you guys read results differently. um, um like you said, you look into the root cause of things and I know that the levels that you base things on are a lot different as well.
00:23:21
Speaker
So yeah, I find that really fascinating and I think it's important to note. And kind of wish it's like the doctor's reference ranges are needed because they do highlight, right. Okay. We need medical intervention now. It's like, right. Okay. Now you are in proper pre-diabetes diabetes. So yes, you do need insulin or okay. Yeah. We're at a high risk of really, really high cholesterol. We're needing whatever. yeah It's like they need those reference ranges for that medical intervention and medication. I just wish they would.
00:23:54
Speaker
say that to be like, yes, we are reactive in what we need to do because there's stuff coming up that we need to now do something about. yeah And I think that's where that gap is of they don't want to quite let go of the fact that they're not prevention medicine.
00:24:10
Speaker
And you might, again, you get the good ones and the bad ones. There's probably a few that maybe do a bit more where they maybe then do refer you to a nutritionist or a dietitian or refer you somewhere else.
00:24:20
Speaker
But A lot of them don't like to give up the mantle. So they'll look at your bloods. And I do wish then they had then the outside reference range of kind of like, okay, now we're looking at the functional optimal to be like, right, you're not in a really bad zone yet.
00:24:33
Speaker
but you are on the outskirts. So if this keeps going, rather than send you on your way with absolutely nothing and no answers so you continue to do what's depleting you so that you do end up in the bad reference range, it's like maybe you could try some of these things to like, okay, you're heading in the low iron direction. Maybe let's try increasing some iron foods rather than getting to a point that you now need an infusion because you're so low. It's just...
00:24:56
Speaker
I wish there was that definition in society. And this, and it really did annoy me because even in my naturopathic studies, we didn't get taught this. We got taught that, okay, there's more to pathology, but we didn't get taught the optimal reference ranges.
00:25:13
Speaker
And it was only in that like first year of practicing that was like, this something about this really does not feel right why am I looking at it again going for a disease state rather than like yeah I can see you maybe two digits away from a disease state yeah it was only then that I invested in proper functional pathology training i was like oh okay like it's bigger so this is where I think you do still get a lot of naturopaths health practitioners nutritionists whatnot in the kind of alternative realm who still don't
00:25:44
Speaker
know to look at these things or don't have the training to maybe look at it yet um and I like to think as maybe that's where we get the difference of things at NatchPass who don't really yeah go the whole mile it's maybe because they just don't know yeah I like to think and I yeah and I like to think yeah once we know we can do better from it like it's it's having that knowledge first and being ah aware of the situation so Yeah, I know.
00:26:10
Speaker
yeah it's quite fascinating. and um I know my husband jokes. He's like, you're always getting bloods. I'm like, because it tells you so much. It's so fascinating. Yeah. especially when you can catch it and it's like you always know your body and you know when it's something's not right something's going on and I think it can just tell you really quickly what kind of is going on and if something comes back and your blood's all completely fine then we're like cool it means there's something environmental going on whether it's you know mold
Listening to Your Body and Contact Information
00:26:40
Speaker
exposure in the home or whatever yeah but I think it is it just gives such a quick shortcut and that prevention of like okay like in for me when I started to gain like
00:26:49
Speaker
Literally all I gained was a kilo and a half. And I'm like, and something's not right. I'm like, I didn't. And then getting it done and having like, right. I can see I'm on the cusp of so many.
00:27:00
Speaker
I'm outside of like my reference range of being optimal. And I'm on the cusp. I'm like, if I keep going, this is then going to get into a bad stage that suddenly I am going to keep gaining weight increasingly badly. I'm like, don't want to get to that point. I want to catch it before yeah it's happening.
00:27:15
Speaker
So I think it does. It just gives you so many, so many answers about what's happening now, but so many prevention things of like, oh, okay, if this keeps going. you will get X, Y, Z symptoms and we don't want X, Y, Z symptoms. So let's do something about it. Yeah.
00:27:31
Speaker
Oh, that's yeah, definitely. Just like being so comprehensive, I think is really good. And I know it's been great working with you for that. So thank you. um So yeah one of the things I wanted to ask you about was supporting the nervous system. I know we touched on that briefly when we spoke about um kind of the mindfulness and the rest of Is there anything that we can do, anything else that can be done to support the nervous system throughout all this?
00:27:58
Speaker
So I find this is where it gets really individual yeah about what people are going to resonate with. So you've obviously got, you know, the standard calming.
00:28:10
Speaker
sit there and be in peace kind of things, which is like amazing if you're at the point and really resonate with that stuff and can do it without the guilt constantly circling your head while you're doing it.
00:28:21
Speaker
But otherwise it's sort of doing things for the nervous system that I like to call it a little bit more like active mindfulness where again, good starting point, you feel less guilty when you're doing it.
00:28:33
Speaker
So they might just be, you know, those simple things of, going for a walk and primarily going for it where you're surrounded by trees. Nature is great, but trees, especially when they're big and kind of covering, it creates something called forest grounding or forest bathing.
00:28:51
Speaker
And they naturally can really support and turn that nervous system into that calmer parasympathetic state rather than keeping you stuck in sympathetic state. So it's kind of choosing those little things that can just bring you back. And it could be doing what you loved as a kid, i always think is going to be one of the most potent things. So if you loved painting, if you loved, you know, making little mud pies out with your little flowers out in the garden, like tapping into those things that bring you that joy, but also kind of tap into the brain's inner child with
00:29:28
Speaker
I find a really, really potent and easy art ways of kind of calming that nervous system. And then you have the stuff which is really, really, really active mindfulness, which is then stimulating your vagus nerve. So often when we stimulate our vagus nerve, it instantly stimulates into your parasympathetic calming nervous system and will switch off your sympathetic nervous system of that stress response.
00:29:53
Speaker
So those could be like things of like massaging behind your ear down that sort of portion where the vagus nerve Runs. Imagine like a dog when you're coming, scratching behind the ear, freezing. love it.
00:30:09
Speaker
how Doing things like that. And then the breathing where you're activating your diaphragm of like feeling like your belly comes out. Even if it's crappy breathing, you're not fully getting into it.
00:30:19
Speaker
As long as that diaphragm is activated and you're feeling your belly rise, the diaphragm can only be activated in that parasympathetic. calm nervous system state so it's a really good reset obviously when you stop doing it and if the stress keeps happening you'll kind of pop out of it but it's at least a good reset to get you in and then humming or singing as well so any it's kind of like the vagus nerve is a really that big nerve that runs through the neck behind the vocal cords area so when you hum or you sing and you're changing like
00:30:51
Speaker
tones from the the high to the medium to the low, it vibrates against your vagus nerve, which will then again, activate into your parasympathetic mode. So there's like little things that work in the moment.
00:31:04
Speaker
Yeah. they're just not as long lasting, but they do help retrain your nervous system to kind of be like, all right, let's not always constantly be on. So like when I brush my teeth, I hum or I sing. And when I'm in the shower, I'll blast like my nostalgic back in the early tune. And it's just that really regulating kind of end of day for me of,
00:31:26
Speaker
feeling really good and lighter afterwards of kind of like just turning my body because I ah try the whole like standing in the shower and washing the stress away and I feel like it's such a mental game where like having to pitch a little blocks of stress on my body and wash it yeah and it's so much effort whereas I think this is a little bit more I don't have to think about it and it's kind of just naturally happening anyway I love that I didn't realize that about the singing how interesting Yeah. Which I'm like singing in the car, singing everywhere else.
00:31:54
Speaker
I know. It's funny. but um My sisters and i we always joke, we're so out of tune with singing, but get the three of us in the car together and it's like, oh. up I'm like, oh, it's a good thing we're in the car and no one can hear ah You get to a traffic light you suddenly just turn it down a little bit. a Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:32:12
Speaker
ah the poy sorry So with all this, how can we support children then to do all this so that we're teaching them kind of the right way from the beginning and and teaching them all these different things? Like what would you recommend? So whether it's children in the classroom or our own children, how would you start bringing this in so that they're not feeling as frazzled as what we all want?
00:32:37
Speaker
How can we change it for them? Especially when they like, and I don't fully know the science, but I don't remember the science behind it of that.
00:32:49
Speaker
Your nervous system, we kind of like emit little molecules when our nervous system is certain states. So which is why when you're in more of a frazzled heightened nervous system stress state, the certain kind of like molecules that are coming from you.
00:33:06
Speaker
a surround of and people around you are catching them. So, which is why we normally sync emotions with the people that were around. so that whole thing of like surrounding yourself by the five people that you're whatever, when you're being with, a big thing comes into it's the emotional regulation that you're also tapping into at the same time. So a really big thing for like young kids when the parents are in that frazzled state,
00:33:26
Speaker
they are tuning in and feeling those same molecules coming off you that you're emitting in a state, which that gets really hard when you're like, well, I can't switch it off because you've asked, like, I told you to put on your shoes for the 20th time.
00:33:38
Speaker
Like, just listen. Yeah. But I love with, like, some things the kids can then do, at least when – Obviously, see I feel like kids can be a little bit more uninhibited than adults with their self-consciousness.
00:33:53
Speaker
But tapping into that inner child of like, you know, singing away, like moving, doing all those things that kind of help them regulate and move it through as well.
00:34:04
Speaker
Things I think would be amazing. Like you hear of some of those classrooms that do bring in like the breathing, doing those little like meditations to get them into that breathing state. And God, I remember this in kindy. We'd have these little meditations like before it was sleep time of just doing the breathing and getting the kids to put their hand on their belly, like teaching them those breathing techniques in the early years.
00:34:27
Speaker
yeah And having that coming in, I think is just amazing. So powerful for kids and something you can do in the classroom of like, it might be before heading in into lunch when they get a little bit more restless.
00:34:39
Speaker
Normally they're a little bit tuckered out post-lunch or if they are hyped up after lunch, doing the breathing. So you're instantly turning off them, the kids stress sympathetic nerve system and putting him into a calm state, which then means that they're going to focus better. They're going to have better decision-making. They're going to retain a lot more information better as well.
00:34:55
Speaker
So kind of bringing those gentle things into the classroom, I think would make a world of difference. And then when kids are at home and day to the same thing, bring in the breathing for them, teach them that technique, because as they get older, they will naturally start being lung breathers and then we kind of lose...
00:35:15
Speaker
that techniques if you kind of teach them still breathe it with their belly especially as i hope we're moving into a day and age where girls don't have to worry about like their belly sticking out and that self-consciousness that makes us suck it in and become lung breathers and neck breathers more so um but I then I find the really really potent is tapping into their emotions and actually being free to express them in safe ways when they are at home because I do find a lot of kids suppress a lot of those urges, especially when they're the age, they can understand, or it's not a safe environment being at school just because it's, you know, it's not mom, it's not the siblings that are safe.
00:35:55
Speaker
So, so much can be suppressed. And that nervous system is like a little ball of like, think of a bottle of Coke. That's just been shook up like crazy, but the lid hasn't come off yet. They get home. It's suddenly safe. The inhibitions go and they don't have to mask anymore.
00:36:09
Speaker
And it becomes this massive emotional dysregulation for them of just feeling very frazzled, very just intense behavioral acting out and they don't really understand why. sorry having that of tapping into their emotions of like, yeah, if you feel angry, go smack a pillow, like go scream into it, to go do all those things that when we were kids, we were shamed for. That's not, you know.
00:36:32
Speaker
you're a nice little girl, you don't go screaming, you're not meant to be angry, little boys that are angry, like behavioral, having that freedom to, you know, have that big cry, have that scream, bounce on the trampoline and have that emotional regulation coming out because it might not even relate to an actual emotion for them.
00:36:53
Speaker
a lot of the times when we're in that like heightened nervous system state, it's if you think of fun physics but the extra energy coming up becomes that really like high kinetic energy where every molecules are moving really fast we have a lot of energy production we have a lot of heat production a lot of adrenaline so when they go back if they don't get that out through movement it just becomes bottled in them and it feels like they are literally like shook up coke bottle wanting to explode so having that kind of movement outburst it might not even relate to an emotion of them like oh i'm angry at something it might just be i finally feel safe at home and there's been a build-up in the day of everything and now i just want to have an explosion get out and then it's this calm aftermath so just kind of for kids i find those are the three most potent singing much to your dismay your ears might have to bleed but kids that are just like singing it out so they're activating their vagus nerve
00:37:51
Speaker
doing the breathing to help switch it back into a calm state and then doing whatever emotional regulation comes out. And one thing on that, because I'm seeing it more and more where it's kind of like we tell the kids, you know, do you want the anger? Do you want to hit the pillow? Do you want to do all these things?
00:38:09
Speaker
But because they haven't seen it acted out or mirrored from them, from the parents in the first place, it struggled, like they struggled to basically do it. Yeah. I see it a lot with the kids where they're like, they're just not wanting to bring out. So when I talk to them, you know, the parents, the mom, the dad, of like, well what do you do when you're angry? It's like, well, I just walk away.
00:38:30
Speaker
i just, you know, shut down. It's not there. So I'm like, okay. So they're instantly seeing that feeling or expressing anger or so expressing sadness isn't a safe thing. I'm like, the easiest way to kind of help those kids is if you're feeling an emotion rise up,
00:38:48
Speaker
go and do it and be like, do you want to come along? Like, mommy's just feeling a little bit like angry right now. I'm just going to go hit a pillow, like mirror and act it out for them so that then they see that as a safe action. And you'll find that kids naturally start doing it themselves when they're home.
00:39:03
Speaker
As long as they have a safe environment, they're not hitting other people, you know, you're doing all those things. yeah um But I find that can be really, really important, especially for neurodivergent kids. who often like have masked a lot or it's been really emotionally dysregulating at school for them, they often have these outbursts and it is, it's like you find places like headspace and all that.
00:39:26
Speaker
They have walls that are for like throwing a rubber ball at continuously. They have like anger outburst places. So it's creating that space where they feel safe because once it's out, their nervous system will feel really calm as an aftermath.
00:39:42
Speaker
And I think that's also a really good lesson for us as adults that we need to let those emotions out as well. You know, as you said, like demonstrating that for the children in our lives, it's not going to be a bad thing because, yeah, we need to let that ah energy move through us, don't we? Those emotions move through us. And, yeah, I think that's a really good point as adults that we need to kind of take note of as well that we don't have to bottle it up either.
00:40:06
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, the amount of shame and guilt that will probably kick in when you do it will – um make you want to stop, make you want to just bottle it in again.
00:40:18
Speaker
But I always think that's a nice then reminder of what your kids are going to learn, that they're going to get to a stage that they're feeling shame for feeling these things too. So it's like, it's, you know, there's no shame with it. It's moving through. like what's the worst that's going to happen is he just says, like, you had an angry outburst.
00:40:34
Speaker
You're like, but I had it in a safe, controlled environment. And we both felt better afterwards. Yeah, no, that's interesting. I'm just thinking of what my kids do. So yeah, ah I won't give too much away. I'm not going to talk about them too much on this, but yeah, it's good to know.
00:40:54
Speaker
um So another thing I did want to ask, oh, where's my question gone? Oh, it's evaded me now. Oh man, I had it in my head as you were talking. I'm like, yes, I want to ask you that next.
00:41:06
Speaker
um I think it was just about, yeah, with the emotions and dealing with that as an adult as well. Like I know we just spoke on that briefly then, but what's the best way to then let our emotions out? Do you recommend doing all that? Do you think that that's the best option? Like do we, even if we don't have children, we just do it and it like that anyway, like in a safe way?
00:41:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. a and there might be like, there is that whole realm of then somatic therapy comes in of feeling, letting those emotions out, doing those things.
00:41:42
Speaker
But I think over the years, I've just come to learn there's going to be no cheat hack for when emotions pop up. And my biggest thing is like those emotions really get stored in the body of that.
00:41:55
Speaker
If we're not expressing or honoring them, One, it comes down to also that mindset of kind of like, you know, reigniting that little inner kid who didn't feel safe to feel anger or got told off for, you know, being sad and didn't feel like supported that if we keep tossing it aside and not wanting to feel it, it's.
00:42:15
Speaker
you know, reshaming her and not honoring that and reinforcing that belief pattern. But then also on that flip side, if we're not feeling it and it is getting stored in that body, that is a constant subconscious stress trigger on the body over and over. Like it is keeping your body in a more stress nervous system state.
00:42:35
Speaker
So you're always going to be a little bit more on guard. So am a very, very, very big advocate now for feeling your emotions in whatever safe way there is and like I'll regularly have my temper tantrums and like my partner knows I'm like I'm gonna have like my little my emotional release like can you go to the gym or yeah if you're up can you just put noise cancelling headphones on and like building i shut all the uh blinds do everything and I've got them my headphones on the noise and it's tapping in it's just letting it
00:43:11
Speaker
calm and feeling it and it is pretty magical like that aftermath of the calm that comes with it and I think a really safe thing to say is like it's not always safe to feel the emotion when it first pops up and this feels like a really morbid example of it's always the best one I'm really really bad funerals I don't even have to know the person i will be a bowling mess and so i now tap into myself of like I feel, I'm like, okay, body, like I know there's this sadness. I want to feel it.
00:43:43
Speaker
Now it's just not a safe place to do so. And it's kind and it feels a little bit woo when you're like, you're talking to your body as if it's a separate entity, but it's been pretty phenomenal the way it responds rather than it feeling like I'm constantly trying to suppress and push something down that wants to pop open, kind of like an overfull luggage suitcase and you're trying to close it when it can't.
00:44:05
Speaker
It suddenly is like it calms and it responds, ah but then I make sure that I do honour it later. So I'm not just telling myself a lie because then it knows it's a lie and it will still try and pop up. But honouring it that in sometimes in the moment, sometimes when I'm around certain family members and anger pops up or whatever pops up.
00:44:24
Speaker
I kind on her. was like, okay, like I feel you and I will feel you later and on you later. And so now I've got playlists that are my angry playlist, my utter sadness and despair playlist.
00:44:38
Speaker
And so then I tap into them to like feel, do like a tiny little five minute meditation to get into it. And the emotion will just rev up for me now to be like, okay, go feel it, go stomp it out, go do whatever i kind of need to do. And especially then when it comes, like, I feel like anger and sadness bit easier because it's, you know, smack in a pillow, screaming into a pillow, or it's just crying uncontrollably.
00:45:03
Speaker
But even when it's something like overwhelm or feeling frazzled or just on edge, sometimes for that, it's like, like, I don't necessarily want to fully tap into it because it feels like then a full anxiety spiral will just kick But for me then it's more like,
00:45:19
Speaker
that dancing out because in that state again it's like that energy is just too high that for me to sit breathe try and be calm while all the cyclone is happening it just doesn't work personally for me so then I have a playlist of high vibe energetic songs that help me just channel that adrenaline channel that extra bit out so at least my body's emotional response has calmed down and then I can do more the logical you know, meditate journal to help with the logical thoughts of like, okay, what am I actually feeling worried about? What's popping up? What's like the solution or whatever can I do for it?
00:45:55
Speaker
But I'm still honoring that emotional state when it pops up. And it can feel a little bit more like tedious to do, but it is usually the most potent and effective way to feel that emotion and feel a really sense of peace and calm afterwards.
00:46:11
Speaker
And it's especially anger and sadness, amazing the difference of feeling hyped up to then suddenly just feeling like so chill and unbothered. Yeah. Oh, love that.
00:46:24
Speaker
Isn't amazing how much music you can do as well? It just astounds me. Yeah. And I'm like, I love that. So choosing the right music is going to be powerful because there's something called entertainment that happens.
00:46:37
Speaker
So your heart will naturally sync with the beat of the music. So you can also use it if you're feeling a bit like flat, unmotivated, not great. That's why a lot of gym beats will be this high pumping beat.
00:46:48
Speaker
Because you can just listen to the music and it creates this more physiological, energized feeling for you. So you can do it in the inverse. But then on that other side, music is so, so close to that emotional regulation center in your brain.
00:47:04
Speaker
And music being one of like the big key senses with hearing has a really, really profound way of getting the brain to respond and emotionally regulate and then telling the body to follow suit with it.
00:47:18
Speaker
But the most potent music will be the music of your childhood. So whether young years that mum and dad were blasting in the car that you had to listen to 94.5 all the bloody time, ah years of like teenage years, because that memory and that childhood is more profound and a stronger emotional response and usually associated more with it. couldn't worry about in oh I do feel for the kids of today and the music that there's going to be nostalgic for.
00:47:49
Speaker
Love it. I know. Oh, how interesting. you because I know, um was it the binaural beats and stuff that they recommend for when you're studying and things like that to get you in the zone? And then obviously you've got the the different um hurts or whatever it is when you're trying to sleep. So, yeah, it all makes sense.
00:48:05
Speaker
How fascinating. love it. I love all this stuff. It's just so interesting. Especially when it's like you can manipulate your brainwaves. really, really easily just bye noise.
00:48:16
Speaker
Like it's one of the strongest ways. You're like, well, why not use it to your advantage and use it to either you want to focus, if you want to feel energized, if you want to help emotionally release, music and those correct kind of hurts and beats are going to be really powerful for you. Yeah. which I guess it's why sound healing is also becoming a big thing as well.
00:48:36
Speaker
So yeah, that I've just realized the time. we probably need it just keep talking for hours I just got a couple more very quick questions for you. So one last one.
00:48:49
Speaker
This is probably going to be a bit tricky after everything we've spoken about, but if you could give just one piece of advice to our listeners, just one, Sarah, what do you reckon it would be? ah know this is a tricky one because of all the... One, aye think I still come back to...
00:49:10
Speaker
listen to your body and you know it best. So if something's feeling wrong or whatever it happens to be, it's kind of like instead of just, I guess that wrongness, like sit with your body just that extra two seconds longer to see what it's coming up with of like, okay, am I just feeling a bit tired?
00:49:28
Speaker
Am I just feeling foggy? Is it an overwhelm? Like what exactly is it? then then be able to move from there. I think I find a lot of people tune out or go on autopilot because i mean, we don't often have answers. It can be scary. Like it's better having an unknown than tapping in and seeing what we see. Cause then it feels more like a little bit of a sentence that you can never get out of.
00:49:52
Speaker
But if you can tap in you'll then be able to know the right treatment for you going forward a lot easier and a lot more effectively than, you know, taking every which what that you might hope hope kind of help, but doesn't really do anything.
00:50:05
Speaker
Cool. Thank you. And lastly, where can we find you? So if people want to find out more work with you, where, where can they find you? So probably a few places.
00:50:17
Speaker
think I'm going to really stick to one. um If you want more information on me, you can always go to the website at sarahshell.com. Otherwise, for like the little information snippets, bits and pieces, Instagram with Sarah underscore shell underscore and my podcast, Healthish and Happy, will be the best sources to go to.
00:50:37
Speaker
Awesome. And I'll pop all those in the show notes for everyone as well. Oh, thank you so much, Sarah. I could, yeah, honestly just keep chatting to you for ages. have to get you on again and we can talk about a whole heap of other stuff. The amount of tangents we go down. know. Even during our appointments, it's like, woo!
00:50:55
Speaker
I love it. Oh, thank you so much. And, yeah, I hope everyone listening has, yeah, got a lot out of today's chat. So thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Anytime.