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Jane Sanden
132 Plays4 years ago
This week on Friendless, I unfriend UVic alum and charcuterie extraordinaire Jane Sanden!
We discuss the perfect charcuterie board, Rocky Horror Picture Show, reintroducing ourselves after being deceived by beards, learning to appreciate flaky friends, and so much more!
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsors
00:00:01
Speaker
Friendless is a proud member of the Saskatchewan Podcast Network, which is sponsored in part by Connexus Credit Union and Direct West.
James's Social Experiment
00:00:17
Speaker
My sweeties, welcome back to a brand new episode of Friendless with me, your old pal and host, James Avramenko.
00:00:27
Speaker
As always, I'm on a quest to have no friends left on Facebook, and somehow that's gonna help me answer the question of what it means to be a good friend.
Interview with Jane Sandin
00:00:37
Speaker
This week, to help me get a little closer to that answer is an old friend of mine, fellow UVic alum and charcuterie extraordinaire, James Sandin.
00:00:45
Speaker
We discussed the perfect charcuterie board, rocky horror picture show, reintroducing ourselves after being deceived by beards, learning to appreciate flaky friends, and so much more. Jane is a dear friend from back in the day and I loved getting a chance to catch up with her again.
00:01:04
Speaker
I think you are going to love this episode. As usual, I have stuck a few updates on the show at the end of the episode, so be sure to stick around for that to find out some fun ways you can support Friendless. But that is then, and this is now.
Jane's Pandemic Experience
00:01:21
Speaker
So for now, let's jump into my interview with Jane Sandin here on Friendless.
00:01:36
Speaker
How are you? It's been literal years. It's great to see you, James. I'm doing fine. I mean, it's still a pandemic and I've been in Calgary for seven, six or seven months. Okay. Um, yeah, my dad had like neurosurgery twice in the fall. So I came back. I was thinking of coming back for like three weeks and I brought like one pair of pants home.
00:02:05
Speaker
but then I stayed for a million months. So here we are. Wow. How is your dad? Is he doing okay or? Yeah, he's all right. He's had like a brain tumor that he's got taken out three times.
Unconventional Treatments for Tumors
00:02:20
Speaker
Wow. The first one was in 2007 when we were at UVic, so. Yeah. Holy shit. He's all right. Yeah.
00:02:29
Speaker
Wow. Do you want it? Like, I don't mean to. I don't want to like poke deeper into that if you don't want to. Oh, I'm just that. I mean, like, I'm just sort of in awe that he that he's like had been fighting this for so long. Like, is it is it like leaving? Like, is it being removed and coming back or is it like recurring? Like what's happening there? Yeah. So it's not a cancerous tumor.
00:02:57
Speaker
Um, he started losing his hearing like maybe 15 years ago and they discovered it was, it's called an acoustic neuroma.
Memories of Jane's Dad
00:03:05
Speaker
It's a brain tumor around your acoustic and facial nerve. Wow. So they cut it out, but like they can't really cut it all out without doing a lot of brain damage. Right. So it's like kind of a surgery he has to have every five ish years.
How Did James and Jane Meet?
00:03:25
Speaker
Unreal.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah. And this time, um, he got a brain infection after, and he got an MRI, he got an MRI that he wasn't supposed to have. It was scheduled for months and months ago. It wasn't like a post-op thing. And they discovered like a mass in his brain and they're like, Oh, we don't know what this is. We have to do emergency surgery. And it turned out
00:03:50
Speaker
It was an infection that had he not just happened to have this MRI randomly, they wouldn't have caught it and he would have died. So it's so lucky. And the
From UVic to Vancouver
00:04:03
Speaker
craziest thing is now there's like a halo around his brain tumor of white blood cells. Okay. And the doctor thinks that maybe, um,
00:04:16
Speaker
Like that will stop the brain tumor from growing. And they're like, they said that they've been trying, they, there's theories about, um, using disease to treat brain tumors, but it's too dangerous to do research on. So that's interesting.
00:04:38
Speaker
And my dad's cousin has liver cancer and she gets her liver flushed with like tuberculosis. So I don't know if that's the same thing.
Charcuterie Business Venture
00:04:51
Speaker
Wow. So she literally like, like, how does that even work? Wow. Well, this is a, this is not where I thought the opening of this conversation was going to go. But so, okay. I'm sorry. Explain to me how someone is flushed with tuberculosis. I have no idea.
00:05:13
Speaker
That sounds like, that sounds like, um, it's like one of those, like, it sounds like a title to like a bodice ripper, like flush. Wow. But she's doing okay. She likes it. She's, she's liking that treatment. I mean, I don't really know the details of it.
Life in Toronto
00:05:34
Speaker
I think my dad was always like, what? Yeah. That makes no sense until his doctor told him this thing about his tumor.
00:05:41
Speaker
So I guess is that is is the theory behind it the idea of like like building up immunities kind of thing and then your body remembers how to fight it away after or is it like yeah I don't know if it kind of like rushes white blood cells to that spot consistently yeah I'm not sure about the science but
00:06:02
Speaker
Well, that's fascinating. You know, it's funny because like, I mean, I've never met your dad, but I, I have the most vivid image of him in my head because of Facebook, because you will, every couple of years you'll share a photo of how you look exactly like him. And it's a photo of him from like, it's gotta be like the seventies. And, uh, and it's funny too, because he also as a, as a young man looks just like Gerard Way from my chemical romance. And so there's like, I never knew that.
00:06:32
Speaker
Nice. But but it's a it's an amazing comparison shot of the two of you. Right. Yeah. Anytime it bubbles up, you know, but.
00:06:42
Speaker
But let's let's let's
Meaning of Friendship
00:06:44
Speaker
let's talk about you. Let's let's let's shift gears, you know, but so, you know, I I often start these interviews with like talking about sort of how we met. But but you fall into the category of guests that it often becomes a bit of like a.
00:07:02
Speaker
a haze because of theater school and you know in theater you're sort of like I know a lot of times in theater in general it's like you sort of already know who the person is before you may or may not meet them and there's often like and then you a lot of times you have to pretend you've known them and all those kinds of things right you know but I'm curious if um
00:07:22
Speaker
If you remember, I guess my, my preamble is indicating that I have no memory of it. I just, you're one of those people who like one day I wasn't friends with and the next day I was, and I don't know what that day was, but I'm curious if you remember us meeting at all.
00:07:38
Speaker
Okay, I don't know if this is a false memory or not, but like on, I guess you're, you came to UVic a year after me. Yes. And on the first day at UVic, we have this big, everyone meet each other in a circle thing. Yep. And I, I was with Kate and I think she was like, that guy is, I'm going to date him from across the room.
00:08:05
Speaker
It definitely she she you know, and I don't want to I don't want to sound like it was predatory, but she definitely like set her sights on me and I didn't know what to do. I was terrified. I'd never lived on my own before. I'd never lived out of my home. I had just I'd literally like that week turned 18. So I was like still such a baby and was just like terrified of everything. You know what I mean?
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah, I remember her. I remember it's funny. I don't remember what she said exactly, but I remember after that session, that big meeting broke and her just like be mining to me and just being like, oh, fuck, what do I do? Yeah. And Kate and I were like besties at
Lessons from Different Cities
00:08:56
Speaker
that time. So I'm sure that was the first time. But do you know this function of Facebook of C friendship? Yes.
00:09:05
Speaker
Okay, so I was looking at yours and mine earlier today to just see what's up. And I wrote on your wall about the first time that I thought I saw you. Really? Yeah, which was, I said, at the Rocky Horror Picture Show thing they used to do at UVic, where I think you must have been dressed in drag. Big time. Yeah.
00:09:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Cause that first year, that first year, uh, Jesse Fleming, uh, like forced us to go all out for that. Um, um, and, and he was my like sort of first friend in university, um, because we had funny enough at that same, at that big department meeting, uh, we had sat beside each other and we neither of us knew anybody knew each other or, or anyone. And so we just got talking. We found out we were in the same like first year acting class together and, uh, and just sort
00:10:03
Speaker
buddyed up, you know, and, uh, and then, yeah, you know, when school starts in September. So like the first big event or the big social thing was Rocky Horror in October. And, uh, and he, yeah, he made us like buy new
Pandemic's Impact on Friendship
00:10:19
Speaker
dresses, new, you know, from value village. And like, he did our makeup and we got super decked out and it was a blast. I loved it. It was super fun.
00:10:30
Speaker
I wish I had the skills and the ability to do it more often, because it's so fun. I know. I went to it every year. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess those are my first two memories. And since I'm in my parents' house, I've been going through some of my old stuff. Yeah. And Aislinn made me this book of haikus and got people to write me haikus. Oh my God. This would have been your first year. And I have haiku that you wrote me.
00:11:00
Speaker
Oh, my God. Can you? Would you like to hear it? I want to hear it. Yeah. OK, Jane has flowing hair. She makes me feel like sunbeams. I live the OC signed by Jane or signed by James in brackets. Kate's. I wasn't even last name basis at the time. I was like, just in case you didn't know, I was that weird kid in the corner.
00:11:29
Speaker
I live the OC. I live the OC. Oh, wow. Now, were you a part of were we doing was it the OC viewing that we were doing? Because I remember like was the OC still going on and that would have been oh five because I remember that like there was a group of like second years who were doing
Podcast as a Comfort
00:11:49
Speaker
viewing parties of some show. And I think it was the OC, but I can't for the life me remember.
00:11:56
Speaker
I was not part of that. I wasn't a big OC person, but I remember when Sam and I were living together, I came home one day and he was crying like I've never seen anyone cry before, like inconsolable. And I walked in the door and I was like, Oh my God, Sam, what happened? Is everything okay? And he's like,
00:12:18
Speaker
Marissa is dead. I knew it. I knew that was the moment. No, stay. So so coming back to like, you know, so we met in Victoria and then when I moved to Vancouver, I know you were you were already there. You had been pretty set up there in terms of like
00:12:46
Speaker
You know the group of people who had kind of, you know, migrated over right and actually one of the things and maybe we'll talk about this later actually. I remember when I went to barkerville and I came back for like a super whirlwind weekend.
00:13:02
Speaker
And it's funny because this actually, actually, now that I think about it, this is, this is a funny story. This was like, you know, I had moved to Parkerville for the summer right out of school. And I don't think I'd seen you since you graduated the year before. And, uh, and I came back for a weekend and you were living with Katie Tackofman at the time, uh, who was a, uh, alum of the show. She was on earlier, uh,
00:13:24
Speaker
couple of years ago. And,
Future of Friendship
00:13:25
Speaker
um, and, and we went out for some drinks and then I crashed on you guys as polo coach. And in the morning you came down and I was waking up and, and you were so sweet because you came down the stairs and you went, hi, I'm Jane. How nice to meet you. And James, you, okay. First in my defense, you had the biggest beard I've ever seen.
00:13:53
Speaker
And I had no idea you were back in Vancouver. And I said, Hi, I'm Jane. And I maybe even extended my hand. And then you started laughing uncomfortably. And I'm like, Oh, fuck, it's James. Oh, my God. And I think you weren't sure if I was joking. Yes.
00:14:15
Speaker
I remember that so clearly. I loved that. It's one of my all time favorite friend moments. I'm just like, hi, I'm Jane. And it's like, is this a bit? But but no, that was that was that was such a great weekend. And I'm so grateful to both of you for putting me up and putting up with me. And well, the thing was like our policy was kind of like
00:14:45
Speaker
people crash on our couch all the time. So there's often people you don't know who were there. It wasn't unusual. Anyway. But but so you were in Vancouver for a couple of years. Did you know? No. And this is the way I'm driving to this. And I'd like to actually hear you. I'd like to stop babbling and telling you where you've been in your life. But but so, you know,
00:15:08
Speaker
When we were hanging out in Vancouver, um, when I left you, um, I had it in my head that you had gone to Toronto, but now you've ended up in Calgary. And so I'd love to sort of hear the journey that took you around and why I'm so wrong about where I thought you were. So I mean, I took a year between UVic and Vancouver and lived in Calgary. And then I moved, I lived in Vancouver for four or five years.
00:15:39
Speaker
And then there was this max mass exodus out of Vancouver and it was so depressing. Like I
Gratitude and Reflections
00:15:47
Speaker
used to have a Christmas party and from one year to the next, there was like 15 people that had been at my Christmas party the year before that had moved away. Yeah.
00:16:00
Speaker
So I don't know. I was, I was teaching public speaking to kids the entire time that I was there and I was trying to do theater. And I felt like I was teaching more and more and doing theater less and less. And the theater thing, it just wasn't working out the way that I'm sure many of us felt that it would. So I decided to go back to school to become a teacher.
00:16:30
Speaker
So I moved to Kingston, Ontario and got an education degree there. And my intention was always to go back to Vancouver, but when I graduated, it just didn't feel quite right. I felt like I was just going to go back into the way that Vancouver is. It's not that I'm lazy, but I like to have chill hangs all the time. And I feel like the energy of Vancouver just
00:17:02
Speaker
It's not, it's conducive to me not doing anything with my life. That's how I felt. Even though I loved it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I am right there with you. I've, I've never really, uh, I've never really wrapped my head around going back. Cause every time I think about it, I'm like, Oh no, that'll, that'll ruin my life. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I still think about it every day, but I just
00:17:29
Speaker
I needed somewhere new to go, I think. Yes. And I saw a bunch of friends that I have that it's just like they went to Toronto and they had this hustle in their lives and they had dreams and they were just doing it. And I really felt like I needed that. I don't know if it's like an aggressive energy of Toronto, but it's like some sort of motivation.
00:17:56
Speaker
It's the only city in Canada that has hustle. Like for my money, it's the only city that has a hustle, you know? Totally. So I moved there like, and I've lived there for five years and I just, I mean Calgary, just because of the pandemic because of my parents, but I'm still like, have a job in Toronto. I'm still paying rent there and I'm going to go back. Yeah.
00:18:22
Speaker
Um, and, and you have done these really cool. Like charcuterie boards in, in Calgary. Do you want to, do you want to talk about those at all? Like, are they still ongoing or is that more of like an event thing? Sure. Yeah. Um, so in October, when I was in Calgary, I made my uncle who is impossible to give anything to a charcuterie board and he loved it. And my parents and I were like, holy shit, this is a huge hit.
00:18:51
Speaker
Maybe I should start doing this. And my dad is like a carpenter. So he made that board. And of course my dad needs something to do because he's recovering from his brain tumor and we're all locked up in pandemic. So I put a little picture of the charcuterie board in our neighborhood printed newsletter saying I was making them for Christmas.
00:19:18
Speaker
And my dad makes the boards and I assemble the food and since in the last three months I've sold like almost 70 boards.
00:19:29
Speaker
That's amazing, holy shit. I mean, charcuterie boards, you know, the thing that really struck me about like the photos I saw of yours was that it looked like a worthwhile charcutte, you know? Because like if you order one at a restaurant, it's always like two pieces of bread and then they always have too much of the shitty cheese and too much of the shitty meat and not enough of the good stuff.
00:19:58
Speaker
And like, and Jenica will, will make them all the time. And it's the only way that they're worthwhile because you, you, you portion them to make them worthwhile, you know, and, and yours always looked like yours always looked homemade, right? You know, and in, in the best sense of that, that term, right? You know, in like, Oh shit, this is a value, not like someone trying to cut costs. Oh yeah. I stuff them as cool as I can for sure.
00:20:24
Speaker
And do you have like a source for, do you have a source for the ingredients or is it like just, just, just good stuff for like? Okay. This has been like a little bit of a business, uh, learning from me. So I had this woman that was ordering like a charcuterie board a week. And finally, one day she's like, Oh my gosh. And I have like all this branding and stuff. So it looks like I'm running this big business when really I'm just like making it.
00:20:54
Speaker
in my parents' kitchen. She's like, how's business? How's it going? Oh, you must have like really amazing suppliers, blah, blah, blah. And like the truth is that I get a lot of stuff from Costco and other grocery stores. Sometimes I go to nicer cheese places, but you can get nice cheese and nice meat from those places.
00:21:24
Speaker
And of course, a banana from Walmart is the same as a banana from like, maybe not Whole Foods, because those are organic. But there are people that will like buy, never buy fruit at no thrills, because they somehow think it's lesser than co-op, but it's just like, the truck is stopping at one.
00:21:49
Speaker
Exactly. Well, that's something that I learned actually, that's something I learned from buying supplies for theaters is like, you know, when you're, when you're ordering all this stuff, like it's just the same truck. They just, they just load everything up on one and then each store just gets a portion of the one truck. And so, you know, and then they decide what they charge you, you know? And so it's like, yeah, you're spot on. It's the same fucking cheese, you know? Like it's all covered from the same spot. It's just you, the sucker who pays whatever amount you're paying.
00:22:18
Speaker
But that woman was so horrified that she hasn't talked to me since, even though she had bought like 10 charcuterie boards. And had loved them, had seemingly loved them. I think she might've been embarrassed because she's like, oh, your stuff is always so fresh. It's so good. It's so like crisp and fresh and the best charcuterie I've ever had. Like I get them in restaurants and they're just not as good as this. And then I told her stuff is from Costco and like,
00:22:46
Speaker
Radio silence. Wow. Well, you know what? You know what? You've gotten everything you need from her. So you can move on. That's cool. So do you think that you'll do you think you'll somehow keep that going when you go back to Toronto or do you think that that's just like a time pass or no? Yeah, I'm trying to figure it out. Like I don't have a very big kitchen in Toronto and I don't have a vehicle in Toronto. Right.
00:23:16
Speaker
I also like have been selling a lot to my parents, friends who are old and rich and those aren't really my contacts in Toronto. So I will have to approach marketing in a different way. You got to get a commercial on this hour, right? You know, you got to get you got to get Chris. Oh, yeah. You got to get him to do his his knife selling skills with your charcuterie board.
00:23:43
Speaker
Well, I don't think I mean, Chris is my roommate. I don't know if you know that. But I do. I don't know if he wants a charcuterie operation in our house. So it might be against his best interest. That's fair. You can say, listen, if you're going to have a YouTube production company in our house, I get to have a charcutte company. You know what, James? You're right. That is an excellent point.
00:24:20
Speaker
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00:24:40
Speaker
Prove them right. Start right at Connexus Credit Union. You know, at the heart of this show and especially what it has since become, like I think I started the show as a bit of a joke and it's since morphed into something a little bit more, I don't want to say profound, but it's really become about the question of if I've been a good friend and if I'm going to answer that question, what I'm trying to
00:25:08
Speaker
get to the bottom of is what it even means to be a friend. And so I love hearing all the sort of spectrum of answers that that people come up with. And I'm and I'm curious what your answer to this would be, would would be how do you personally define friendship? Mm hmm. I listened to your episode with Sarah Tuffin this week. And that was great. I think she actually articulated something that
00:25:36
Speaker
I think about, which is like kind of friends are people who see you and are seen by you. So I guess it's to see and be seen essentially. And in that is acceptance. So I think that's the big one. I really love fun people.
00:26:07
Speaker
Truly fun is a really important part of any of my friendships. Totally. Totally. It's hard to it's really hard to to stick around with people who are kind of a pain in the ass though. I feel like that's. But I I'm pretty extroverted and something that I wish that I was better at is like putting more effort into getting to know people that are immediately
00:26:36
Speaker
don't immediately connect with me or make themselves obvious. Like I had a colleague that became a friend and she was wonderful, but I never would have put that effort into getting to know her because she's more introverted.
00:26:51
Speaker
That's something that I have been trying to clock more of. And obviously, it's a little bit harder because I'm not really meeting new people this year. For me right now, it's less about the goal of long-term friendship and more about just daily interaction of when I encounter someone who may not necessarily behave straight away how I
00:27:16
Speaker
you know, think a quote unquote good person would behave. I'm trying really hard not to knee jerk to thinking just the worst thoughts about them, right? And instead I try really hard to like frame it as like, well, what's going on with their day? What's going on with their life that's making them react and behave like this, you know, and how much of it is, how much of it is compensation for, you know, internalized shame or fear of rejection or desire to be
00:27:46
Speaker
you know, in community with someone, but they don't know how to do that. And, you know, because there's so much more going on behind people's anger than we give it credit for. Right. And and I think that
00:27:59
Speaker
Because I'm right there with you. I think the baseline is seeing and being seen. And I think that that's like, that's the root of empathy, right? It's not, what's the word? Like it's not sympathizing, which I think is different, right? Sympathizing I think is like justifying, whereas empathizing is understanding, you know, and not giving
00:28:22
Speaker
excuses for you know and I think that's you know because when you see someone for who they are it's because you see who they really are not who you want them to be you know and who you're making them to be and whereas like and and I'm trying to take that kind of behavior that sort of friendship behavior to strangers and be like okay well what is it that's making you angry because it's not just that you're an angry person it's not just that you're a bad person or you know
00:28:49
Speaker
all the number of dehumanizing words that we like to use for strangers who we disagree with, right? And instead apply it more to like, you know, how can I calmly give you the love that you deserve and the acceptance that you deserve and all those kinds of things, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Interesting. I wonder if you're like me in this way too. I don't expect my friends to give me a blanket
00:29:18
Speaker
experience of friendship and the beautiful thing about friendship is that you can connect in different ways with different people. Like some people I have really great banter with and I really value that. Some people are more emotionally connected. Some people know my family better and it's like the richness of life and having lots of friends is
00:29:44
Speaker
having different people that understand and appreciate you in other ways. And I have friends that are super flaky, but like, I can, I'm fine with one flaky friend cause they're, I can appreciate something else about them. But I think that there are some people that just need people to be
00:30:09
Speaker
meet all this criteria for that thing, you know? Yep. And I think that I don't want to call that selfish because I don't, I don't think that's what it actually is, but like, I'm right there with you. Like I don't need my friends to be my everything. And I'm almost, I'm almost leery of people who expect you to be
00:30:27
Speaker
more than what you can offer. Right. You know, because when it, when it comes to those kinds of behaviors, I often feel like you're, you're, you're putting more pressure on me than I'm able to, to give. Right. And, and, um, yeah, because like, I can't expect.
00:30:45
Speaker
you know, every one of my friends to be able to connect with me on every single level, because I'm a multi, you know, you know, I don't know what the word, you know, I contain multitudes, right? And so does everyone else. And so like, we're obviously not going to cross every path together. But, but what's really fun and really, you know, vibrant and interesting is figuring out which paths do cross over. Those are always the fun things for me, right?
00:31:13
Speaker
And then letting, yeah, I think the other side of that, and I'm right there, you know, right there with you is like letting, letting people be elsewhere as well, right? Like letting them not just be your friend, but letting them have the space to be friends elsewhere with other people who don't involve you, right? I think that's just as important a facet of it is like to not be possessive, you know?
00:31:37
Speaker
Did your, my perception of friendship changed when I went to UVic? That was like a turning point for my ideas about friendship. I'm curious if you experienced the same thing. I think so. I think that, but I would say, um,
00:31:55
Speaker
I think UVic taught me how to be a bad friend. And I, yeah, I think it taught me to experience bad friendship, you know, and I think like, I think, you know, I made good friends, but I think I also like learned a lot of really, really valuable what not to do, you know, in both regards. Right. And so I would say probably
00:32:21
Speaker
I learned more coming out of UVic than I did going, you know, from within it kind of thing. And I take that as a valuable lesson too. I think it's just as important to learn bad stuff as good stuff, right? Wow, that's interesting. Is it like, like, like, when you mean, like, do you mean, like, from your experience, do you mean like, because you, you created the best friendships at a university or how, how, how do you mean?
00:32:49
Speaker
I think this idea of like seeing someone and being seen, I never felt truly that before I got to UVic. Like maybe because I was just friends with people that weren't quite, I don't know, I still have good friends from elementary school and high school, but there's something about finding your people that really
00:33:19
Speaker
is something. And I think the beautiful thing about being in theater and being friends with artists is they readily share of themselves. And there's an emotional and intellectual openness that I think a lot of average people don't have. So it's easier to connect if you're also open with that. So I don't know. I experienced a new level of friendship.
00:33:48
Speaker
at UVic that I had never experienced before. And those friendships were real. Like my best friends are a lot of them are still people that I met like in first year.
00:34:06
Speaker
Direct West is a proud partner of the Saskatchewan Podcast Network. Is marketing getting in the way of running your business? Things like updating your Google listing, thinking of a headline for a billboard, or making sure your website is in good shape. That's where Direct West comes in. You can get local expert marketing help for your business at directwest.com. So I, as I said, have moved around a lot and I know that you have too.
00:34:36
Speaker
And I have taken away lessons from each city. Like each place has taught me something. So I think UVic taught me how to live into who I truly am and how to make friends. Vancouver taught me like how to live a healthy lifestyle. That's when I started doing yoga and spending time outside and like
00:35:01
Speaker
I was a vegetarian man and I was sleeping enough. Whereas I was like, just treating my body like trash at UVic. Yeah. Yeah. And as I was saying before, like, um, Toronto taught me kind of how to hustle and be assertive. Um, so I'm curious, like what you have learned from each place that you've lived. Wow.
00:35:28
Speaker
That's a really good question. Wow. Oh, man. I that's one of those questions where it's like, I wish I had asked for a heads up on these because that's such a great question. And I feel like I can't do it justice sort of like off the cuff. Right.
00:35:48
Speaker
But let's see. Okay. So Victoria, um, I think was the place where I learned to like, except, um, except creativity as not only good work, but just whatever my impulse is. Um, I think that that's where I learned that like.
00:36:11
Speaker
Um, a clown is just as vital to artistic expression as, you know, uh, a sonnet or whatever, you know, whatever high art we, you know, um, um, I think in Vancouver, I learned. Oh man, Vancouver. I learned that it is one thing to have a dream of being an artist and it's a whole other thing to actually live the art life. Um, because it's, uh,
00:36:42
Speaker
It's next to impossible if you're not willing to sacrifice for it. Right. And and I think that in Vancouver, you know, I just got I just got beat the fuck up every time I tried to do art like that city just beat the shit out of me. You know, and
00:37:00
Speaker
So it was, which was, which was good, which was, you know, like, I don't want to say deserved in the way that I'm like, you know, I deserve to be on love, but I mean, like, I think it's really important for artists to not
00:37:17
Speaker
be given things, because I think that what artists are giving needs to be, not profound, but it needs to be genuine, right? And I think that when art and artists receive too much ease too early, it makes what they give disingenuous, you know? Because it becomes about, well, this was successful, so I'm gonna just keep doing this. So I think getting beat up for art is important.
00:37:47
Speaker
Calgary was like Calgary was. Oh, man. This is the Calgary of your adulthood. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, you know, Calgary, I mean, yeah, because Calgary, my youth can just fuck off. So that.
00:38:08
Speaker
I mean Calgary was really where I came into my own as a partner to my now wife. It's really the city where I learned what it takes to be a partner to someone and what it takes to be
00:38:24
Speaker
in a genuinely dedicated intimate relationship and also how rewarding that is, you know, like, because both of us were so we were both people who sort of like never expected to get married and never really saw the value of marriage. And then those three years really reinforced like
00:38:44
Speaker
It's like, if you are lucky enough as we are to have found somebody to, to, to partner with like this, like it is, it's, it's, um, it's a genuine miracle, you know, and it's something worth not only celebrating, but also something that you really do work for. Like it's not, it's not a movie. It's not a, and you always get along, it's not a, you know, um,
00:39:07
Speaker
And it's always easy like it's it's something that's worth the work, which is which it is work, you know, to be understanding and empathetic and generous and, you know, and then Saskatoon. Oh, Saskatoon taught me where not to live.
00:39:31
Speaker
No, you know what, you know what, though, actually, um, so Saskatoon really taught me the value of, uh, of this, of, of reaching out to friends. It taught me the value of working for friendship. You know, if Calgary taught me about the value of, of intimate friend relationships, Saskatoon really taught me the value of intimate friendships, you know, and, and, and realizing that intimacy isn't just.
00:39:58
Speaker
with the goal of hopping in the sack, you know what I mean? Like intimacy is the goal of being emotionally vulnerable and connected with someone. And that isn't a romantic link. And it doesn't have to be a romantic link. And in fact, we should be more...
00:40:16
Speaker
I think we should be striving for more intimacy with our non-romantic partners, right? You know, and our friends and our, you know, and that. And so, you know, I really link Friendless to Saskatoon because it's where I started it. And so if, you know, so those are sort of intrinsic, you know, they're intrinsically linked. And I think that this show has taught me the value of working for intimacy with friends. Right.
00:40:41
Speaker
Is that, is that, is that, is that really long winded? No, that's beautiful. Well, thank you. I always feel like when I get talking, I accidentally sort of spin out and I kind of, and I'm like, wait, oh fuck, how long have I been talking for? No, I was hoping for that sort of response. Um, yeah. Well, there you go. You're welcome.
00:41:14
Speaker
with lockdown, probably stretching out further, you know, with the vaccine rollout being non-existent in Canada. You know, who knows what's coming down the line, you know, whether we stay more digitally based or whether we somehow open up. And I'm curious what you think it would take, it will take in these next coming months to be a good friend in this, this world and going forward.
00:41:45
Speaker
I have found different ways to express friendship this year. Like my love languages, I would say, I don't know how familiar you are with the five love languages. Love them. Yeah. Mine is getting presents. Is it? No, I just like that one. I don't know which one mine is. I know I've read the break. Anyway, sorry. I'm spitting out. So there's five. It's like physical touch, words of affirmation, gift giving.
00:42:16
Speaker
acts of service and quality time. And I think people fall towards, although we all experience love in all of those ways, they fall towards one or two of those. So mine are quality time and acts of service. And quality time is very difficult these days. So I love talking on the phone. So
00:42:43
Speaker
That's been a good thing to carry me through. But I have also sent people tons of cards and presents this year and had made cards for everyone's birthday. So I guess I've kind of shifted in how I express my friendship this year to those love languages.
00:43:13
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a horrible texter. So if people are friends with me, like if you expect a text back right away, we, if that's important to you, we can't be friends. Like one of my friends texted me James on a Friday. I bought birthday card for her, wrote in it and mailed it to Toronto. And I was willing to put in all that effort, but I was not willing to text her back. So.
00:43:43
Speaker
I don't know what that's about but I just.
00:43:48
Speaker
But there's so much, there's so much overvaluing of instant communication, right? There's so much overvaluing of text message as, as if that's the normal baseline behavior. And so like, I, I don't see a problem in that, right? Like I don't, I, I, for me personally, I've never had a problem with someone not texting me back. Um, because I don't, you know, I'm, I'm on my phone too much. Like from, from my side, I'm on my phone too much. I do text back too quickly, but I don't.
00:44:17
Speaker
care if somebody doesn't behave like that, because I think that our attachments to these devices is unhealthy, you know? And so, like, I feel like anybody who's resistant to those kinds of behaviors are super healthy and probably have a better handle of those kinds of behaviors, you know? Like, I think we've just normalized, we've baseline normalized text and instant and email and yada yada far too much for our subconscious, right?
00:44:47
Speaker
Yeah, for me, it's kind of about presence. And maybe that's also what I value in friendship. Like, if I'm texting you, it's taking me out of a present moment, maybe with someone else. And that text is not worth as much as what's happening in the moment. 100%. So, yeah. Well, it's why I value, you know, it's why I value these interviews. And I do sometimes feel a little guilty about
00:45:18
Speaker
sort of like only feeling confident enough to have these conversations while creating this podcast and not really having the confidence to just call you up and just have a chat. You know what I mean? Like, because this is really important to me and this has been just such a wonderful hour that it's like, I wish I had the confidence to just have these conversations rather than making them into this podcast, you know? Because I do feel that value deeply, right?
00:45:47
Speaker
It's such a gift to other people too. Like I have loved listening to you talk to people that I also know it's like given me so much comfort in the pandemic. It's like a passive way of connecting deeply with other people. Well, thank you. Yeah, I have other friends with podcasts too. And this maybe is crazy, but sometimes I'll like
00:46:13
Speaker
put someone, a friend of mine's podcast on and fall asleep to it and then like go back and listen the next day. But there's like something so comforting about that in times when we can't.
00:46:26
Speaker
be with one another. Yeah, you know, a few people have told me this and every time it means a lot to me actually, because I've been told that it's like, it's this source of comfort because it's sort of like low stakes conversation. It's like you get to participate, but you also don't have to worry about actually participating in the conversation, you know, and all the stress that comes into play there of like having to navigate, you know,
00:46:53
Speaker
keeping up with the subject or whatever it might be, you know, and, and, um, yeah, it means a ton to me that I'm, that I'm helping people, right? You know, like, cause I'm just like, I'm just trying to make this goofy little show and I'm just trying to like tell as many people as I can that I love them. And like, hopefully that like helps other people out. Right. You know, and, but, uh, yeah, it's a gift to a lot of us for sure. Well, you're welcome world.
00:47:29
Speaker
But on that note, we do have to wrap up and I, and I, I do have one last thing, but before I do, I just, you know, you know, I was talking about a little before, but I just, you know, I really want to make a point to saying like, you know, Jane, you're a, you're a dear friend of mine. And, and I just, I cherish the memories I have of you and, and I, and I love,
00:47:48
Speaker
anytime we cross paths and I just like I'm so grateful that you are my friend and that we've had the chance to like weave in and out and and find the paths of our friendships that that do correlate right and and I just I think you're the fucking best and I'm so I'm so grateful you're in my life you know thank you James the feelings mutual but we do have one thing we got to do so I'm gonna pull up your Facebook here and and Jane Sandin we
00:48:16
Speaker
There we go. We are no longer Facebook friends. James. You know, I bet you were one of my first Facebook friends too.
00:48:53
Speaker
And that is it. Thank you one more time to Jane for coming on the show. I absolutely adore her and
00:49:00
Speaker
I'm just so thankful I get to call her a friend. If you want to be a friend to the show, please review the episode with a five star review. And if you can share the links to try and spread the word about friendless. Sharing is not only caring, but it turns out it's also free. Something that isn't free.
00:49:21
Speaker
is the new Patreon I have launched to try and support the future development of Friendless. Starting at just five bucks, you can get access to exclusive content, unedited and ad-free episodes, a private Discord, and so much more. If you have the ability to help the show out, follow the link in the show notes, and I thank you in advance. Be sure to follow Friendless on all the social medias at FriendlessPod, and feel free to drop me a line anytime by email at friendlesspod at gmail.com.
00:49:51
Speaker
But that's it for me. I guess it wasn't really a huge news week, so I'll just wrap it up. Make sure to listen to the latest episode of Raised By The Movies, and then have yourselves as great a week as you can. Tell someone you love them, and then tell someone else. And then I'll catch you back here next week with another episode of Friendless. But that of course is then, and this is now. So for now, I'll say I love you, and I'll catch you soon. Fun and safety, y'all.
00:50:20
Speaker
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