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What is Bisexuality? You Asked, We Answered
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A transcript of this episode is available at www.TwoBiGuys.com
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Transcript
Evolution of Podcasting Methods
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, I'm Rob, and thanks for discovering Season 1 of Two Bye Guys. We hope you enjoy it. So in Season 1, we recorded everything in person. It was pre-pandemic, and we used professional sound booths. And as you'll hear, the audio quality is pretty great. But it was also very complicated and expensive. And when the pandemic hit, those booths became impossible.
00:00:23
Speaker
So in season two, we tried recording interviews locally while chatting on Zoom, which kind of worked. But the audio quality was spotty. Sometimes people made manual mistakes with the recording. It was a huge hassle for me to receive the files, convert the formats, compile the audio, edit by hand. I knew I needed a better solution if I was going to continue the podcast.
00:00:46
Speaker
And Zencaster was that solution. The thing that was most important to me, knowing how the process works, is that the audio gets recorded locally, not over the internet like Zoom does. When you get up to seasons three and four, you'll hear how good the audio quality is. It rivals what you're about to hear from season one, which was recorded in professional sound booths. And it's so much easier and cheaper. Everyone can record from home with whatever equipment they have, even just a laptop's built-in mic.
00:01:15
Speaker
And then there's the editing and post-production. I used to have to go through every track manually, reducing background noise, mixing volumes and levels, making sure my guest and I were synced. Now Zencaster post-production takes care of all of that and delivers ready to upload files. So if you're thinking about starting your own podcast, I highly recommend Zencaster. It's easy, it's affordable, and it's very reliable, and the sound quality
Zencaster's Benefits and Promotion
00:01:40
Speaker
is great.
00:01:40
Speaker
And now if you go to zencaster.com slash pricing and enter promo code 2BUYGUYS, you'll get 30% off your first three months. That's z-e-n-c-a-s-t-r dot com slash pricing promo code 2BUYGUYS for 30% off your first three months. It's time to share your story with Zencaster.
Episode 2 Introduction and Listener FAQs
00:02:07
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Two Bye Guys. I'm Alex. And I'm Rob. Welcome. And we are so excited to get into episode two here because we've been getting so many questions from people from Instagram, from Twitter and Facebook. This would be a good episode to answer some questions that folks have been coming in.
00:02:24
Speaker
And lots of questions that I always get when I'm talking to people about this and from friends and family and many people have similar questions. So we kind of want to answer a bunch of those rapid fire and lay some foundation for the kinds of things we're going to talk about with guests on future episodes.
Understanding Bisexuality: Personal and Social Perspectives
00:02:41
Speaker
So without further ado, we'll dive into those questions. So one question that came up was somebody said, do the two bad guys go through periods of having more
00:02:50
Speaker
of an affinity for one gender over another. Isn't it called sort of like the bi cycle? Have you heard that term? I have heard that cycle. Where it's like cycling between sometimes you're more interested in men, sometimes you're more interested in women, sometimes you're more interested in things that are not defined by gender. I definitely think that's been true of me.
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah, and I think there probably have been moments in my life when I've been more drawn to men or more drawn to women on a given day, a given week, a given month. But I actually feel like at times that that draw that I feel is not my attraction shifting. I'm not more or less attracted to a specific gender.
00:03:27
Speaker
I almost feel it's more this kind of biquota. It's a kind of feeling like my bisexuality is no longer being validated if I haven't slept with a woman in two months. And I've thought a lot about this recently that I feel like it's just kind of like a certain insecurity that I have about my sexuality.
Navigating Emotions in Bisexuality
00:03:45
Speaker
I felt that way too when I was
00:03:47
Speaker
Exploring this like I needed proof that I was still by actually there was another question we got that I want to jump to yeah He's somebody has as a bioman I sometimes feel like the grass is always greener on the other side when I'm with a woman I constantly think about men when I'm with a man I constantly think about women do you experience that and how do you deal with it? It's kind of a semi-similar question and like
00:04:07
Speaker
I definitely identify with that because when I identified it straight and was only with women, I definitely thought more about men, especially leading up to doing it. And then the more that I experienced that and had less contact with women, I started to sort of swing back in my head the other way and miss being with women and want to do that
Bisexuality vs. Pansexuality: Clarifications
00:04:30
Speaker
more. So I do think there is a little bit of grasses greener and it can be challenging to deal with.
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting because I actually don't know how much I feel that. In my personal life, I don't know if I've ever felt like a moment where it's been gendered in that way, I guess. But also, I think that's kind of a presentation of what my bisexuality is, that it's a much more queer kind of thing.
00:04:51
Speaker
as opposed to spectrum-y kind of thing. I think that makes sense to me too. It was for me very binary, male, female, but actually now sort of something I'm most interested in is like dating more queer people regardless of gender. And actually since we've kind of already touched on it, one question I get all the time and we got it from a couple of people
00:05:11
Speaker
Like what is the difference between pansexual and bisexual? Because that kind of attacks the gender question. Yeah, let's talk about that. I mean I identify as pansexual also and bisexual and to me they mean similar things. I think some people who identify as pan would say that the difference for them is that they
00:05:34
Speaker
can be attracted or have relationships regardless of gender so that gender doesn't matter. Whereas technically bisexual means that you are attracted to people of your same gender and also of a different gender. That's the bi and bisexual. Some people falsely believe that it means you're only attracted to male and female and that is not historically what bisexual has meant and it is not
00:05:58
Speaker
what most bisexual people take it to mean today. We define it as same as your gender or different, which to me includes any gender or non-gender conforming or... Yeah. Well, it's two or more. Right. It's two or more genders as opposed to, you know, men and women. Right. Right.
00:06:17
Speaker
So I think there's so much crossover between pan and bi, but I understand that some people prefer to identify as pan and explain those reasons. And you know, like, while there's pan and there's bi, and I too identify with both of those labels fully.
Embracing Identity Labels in Sexuality
00:06:31
Speaker
You know, I also, I just use queer, as I've talked about a little bit already on here, and queer just kind of... People always ask, what does queer mean? Yeah. And for me, queer is just such an umbrella term that it captures gender, sex, sexuality,
00:06:44
Speaker
and gender expression even and just kind of like almost a life and a political kind of approach to some extent too. Yeah, I also identify as all three of those and as queer and I like identifying as queer because it connects me to the whole LGBT community. I think sort of anyone in that community can claim that label and that unifies all of us, which I think is, you know, at the end of the day, very important to recognize what unifies us over what divides us.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah.
Coming Out Stories and Challenges
00:07:12
Speaker
Next question. How did you come out to others and what was their reaction? It was a very slow step-by-step process and I did not really decide to come out to people at first. It just sort of happened naturally in a way. Like I just couldn't hold it in any longer with certain people. And the reactions from pretty much everyone that I told was really positive. And that was helpful in terms of each one making me more comfortable telling the next person.
00:07:41
Speaker
And when I came out of spy, I think it was pretty simple for me. I essentially came out right away and I came out via Facebook and I just kind of launched it out in the world, made sure everybody on the planet knew. And, you know, there wasn't much of a negative reaction or anything. I still remember one person saying, because I had identified as gay previously, you can't be like,
00:08:01
Speaker
talking about how you're grossed out by boobs and then identify as bi the next second. Because that had been part of my gay identity, had been kind of being a little bit misogynistic a little bit in the way I talked about women's bodies kind of thing. But to them I say enjoy your monosexual privilege because I don't think Kishi understood how complex it could be for a bi person and why that might be the case, why I might have been saying those things.
00:08:28
Speaker
Totally. I also just want to mention that like I think our very positive experiences coming out are not always typical and I definitely think some of it's related to white male privilege that like it was easier for us to do that without as much shame and stigma and repercussions and I think
00:08:48
Speaker
It is really healthy for me and for most people to be able to be out and feel comfortable expressing yourself. But it is a difficult decision. A, don't need to do it before you're ready. And B, there can be very real consequences to coming out depending on your situation. Like we live in New York City and I have a lot of progressive liberal friends. But not everyone lives in places like that or has that circle. And so
00:09:16
Speaker
It's important to be careful and only do it when you're ready. Completely. And actually, Rob,
Realizing Bisexuality: Personal Journeys
00:09:23
Speaker
I'm curious. A question came up recently.
00:09:25
Speaker
like specifically at you, why do you think it took so long for you to realize you were by in comparison to me? Right, because I was close to 30 and you were like basically in college. Yeah. I think that there's a couple reasons for that. One is that I think if you can pass for straight, which I could, and I also could pass in my own head as straight because I knew I was attracted to women. And at a young age, I didn't have a strong attraction to men.
00:09:54
Speaker
that if you can, you do. If it's easy enough, you do it and you learn from such a young age to repress any other thoughts and just to not consider those other thoughts important. That it felt pretty easy through most of my 20s to do that and I didn't feel even conflicted about it so I didn't think about it and reflect on that. Only once these moments started adding up when I was in my late 20s
00:10:21
Speaker
Did I even realize it? And then I think by that time I dealt with it relatively quickly. Whereas like for you, I think you realized you were gay or thought you were gay pretty quickly, right? Yeah. It was very, I mean, it was kind of on the opposite side where I couldn't pass this straight because I had already come out as gay. Right. And you knew you were attracted to guys. And it could pass as gay, but there was no benefit to passing as gay. So it made it easier to explore bisexuality in the same way.
00:10:49
Speaker
Right. But I also think there's another reason, which is that I'm seeing even just in like the last five years, a lot more visibility and a lot more awareness of this stuff and a lot more bi and pan people. And like I never saw that growing up. I never had bi friends, barely any gay friends. Whereas like you've said you knew bi people in college. You heard that term when you were younger. When I got to college, I heard so many people identifying as pansexual.
00:11:18
Speaker
And all of a sudden it was a super easy conversation to like understand and it was like, oh, that makes sense. Right. And so I came to it later in life, but we are nine years apart in age and we actually both sort of came out as by around the same time, like around 2016, 2017. The world had a buy uprising that year. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we were just swept
Perceptions and Misconceptions in Bisexuality
00:11:39
Speaker
up in it. Right. It was in the air for both of us. Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:49
Speaker
Next question. How do you deal with the constant coming out that seems to be inherent to bisexuality? Good question. Maybe I'll take this one real quick and just say the constant coming out is frustrating because yeah, there's no situation in the entire world except on this podcast. And if I'm simultaneously with a man and a woman,
00:12:10
Speaker
that somebody knows I'm bi. So yes, the coming out process is a little bit more necessary on an ongoing basis for me to feel like I'm living honestly. So that has been frustrating in a lot of ways. And it's just meant that I've been even more vocal as feeling like I even more need to speak up and identify proudly as bi. People make assumptions about your sexuality based on what partner you're with. So they'll assume you're straight if you're with, like if I'm with a woman and they'll assume I'm gay if I'm with a man.
00:12:39
Speaker
Often I want to correct that because I want people to know who I really am, but I sometimes feel that I'm like I don't want to be offending my partner and that if I am asserting my bisexuality in front of them, I might be hurting them in some way or making them feel like I'm only half interested in them, which is not true. That can be challenging in situations like that. Here's another question. How do partners or people you're dating react when they find out that you're bi?
00:13:09
Speaker
And I guess like how do you come out to people that you're dating? Yeah, I guess I was gonna say that's kind of the real question there, almost like how do you even tell a partner? You know, and I think in my experience it very much so varies. You know, I can think of one person who reacted extremely well and kind of seemed very in touch with the bi experience and had no hesitation about that, understood.
00:13:30
Speaker
kind of what I might be thinking and why I was hesitant about telling them. Man or woman. It was non-binary folk actually. Oh, interesting. I shouldn't have asked the question in such a binary way. Yes, problematic. Oh my goodness, I should have said what gender was it. Okay, I apologize. I'm still trapped in the binary. Yeah, we all are a little bit. Okay.
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah, well, and speaking to that person, I also think the reason I felt comfortable and the reason why it went well is probably because they were non-binary, right? So we're already outside of that binary, so they weren't necessarily assuming that I was straight or gay. But I can also think of, you know, negative experiences, of course, where people are very much so, like, averse to the idea, or they'll even say something like, like, oh, I don't date bi people. Literally just out like that. It's wild. It is wild that they have that kind of guts.
00:14:20
Speaker
I would say with men, it feels easier to come out and I do it pretty quickly. Like if I'm meeting people on an app, it says that I'm bisexual on the app. So that is out of the way. And if I meet a guy in person, I don't bring it up right away. Like I don't say, hey, I'm bi. But as soon as the word gay comes up or if anything related to my sexuality comes up, I take the opportunity right away now to correct it or to come out as bi.
00:14:48
Speaker
And most guys, I would say, are pretty cool with the bi identity. I've never really had a guy no longer be interested because I'm bi and sometimes more interested. Whereas with women, I haven't dated that many women lately because I've been in a relationship for about a year with a non-binary person who is producing this podcast.
00:15:11
Speaker
But I did come out to a few women who I dated. Most of them didn't react so great. Like there were a couple of just like first dates where when I brought it up, I could sense the tension and things got very uncomfortable. And like, I just didn't see that person again, or someone I went on a couple of dates with who seemed okay with it, but then I just never heard from them again. And who knows that may or may not be because I'm bi. It could be because of anything.
00:15:39
Speaker
There are a lot of reasons to not date me. But then there have been other women since I've been coming out who have been really into it. And that has been really great. Sometimes I feel like the only positive experiences are with, like, bi folks, right? Like, when I come out as bi and it's a good response, I'm like, you're probably bi too, right? Like, I don't actually say that, but like, it usually turns out to be the case in my experience.
00:16:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. The positive response I had was a straight woman, but in general, I've had more negative reactions from straight women that I've wanted to date. And whereas bi women are pretty open to it. Yeah. Here's another question that's sort of similar and kind of speaks to things on a broader level.
The Closet and Its Impacts on Bisexuals
00:16:20
Speaker
Rob, why do you think only 27% of bi people are out?
00:16:24
Speaker
It's a good question and it's crazy low compared to gay and lesbian people as we mentioned last time. And straight people. So much lower. And I think it's because bi people are aware of what is happening in the world and they're aware that many people will be confused by this identity and that there's a lot of shame and stigma.
00:16:45
Speaker
and they just don't want to deal with that and they can pass as one or the other like we both did. And so if you can, it can feel easier to do that. And like if you have a family in your buy, if you come out, it can threaten that sometimes, especially if your partner doesn't really understand fluid sexuality. And so there are very real risks to coming out instead of just passing.
00:17:10
Speaker
Also, the fact that only 27% of bi people are out leads to all these bad health outcomes because it is challenging for your mental health to have all these thoughts that you don't feel you can express with the people around you and the people you love.
00:17:25
Speaker
And so that's why bi people have much worse health outcomes, especially mental health outcomes. They have higher suicide ideation and all sorts of things. And we don't talk about that enough. And I think a lot of that is related to the fact that so many people don't feel comfortable coming out.
00:17:44
Speaker
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You have another question? Yeah,
Bisexuality and Asexuality: Navigating Attraction
00:17:48
Speaker
how about this? Let's talk about asexuality a little because somebody asked, can a bisexual person be asexual? Yeah, yeah, also, yeah. So I identify on the asexual spectrum. What does that mean? So asexuality overall is the lack of attraction or lack of sexual attraction to other people.
00:18:07
Speaker
but it's a spectrum so that at the extreme end, they just don't have sex, but then there's different levels of that. Yeah, exactly. We all know that people have sex drives, right? And some people have higher sex drives than others, right? And really, it's just kind of a more focused version of that, essentially, that hinges on an identity. And I've experienced a lot of demisexuality in my life, which just means that my sexual attraction doesn't come until I've
00:18:35
Speaker
had some kind of romantic attraction generally. But that basically means like you wouldn't be as interested in like anonymous sex with some stranger that you want to have an emotional connection first. And it means that generally I do have less sex kind of thing right and even though I'm bi I don't have sex with every man and every woman and every trans and non-binary person that I come across.
00:18:56
Speaker
Okay. So to get at this question, they're like, even if you're all the way on one end of the asexual spectrum and you have no interest in actual sex, you could still be bisexual. There's romantic attraction and then there's sexual attraction. Right. And perhaps somebody's biromantic and asexual. And maybe they use bisexual as like the term that people are more familiar with.
00:19:17
Speaker
Right. I agree. Like if you're bisexual has the word sexual in it, but it is broader than that. It's not just about sex. It's also about your emotional connections and your romantic connections. So you could be bisexual and asexual, I think. Yeah, completely.
Debunking Bisexual Myths and Realities
00:19:38
Speaker
Here's a question that I saw and was a little thrown by. It says, don't a lot of people who identify as bi turn out to be gay? And before you even say anything, no. I was gay first. I was gay. So if anything about this theory that when you become bi, you move to the other side of the spectrum,
00:20:01
Speaker
If that was true, then I'ma be straight soon. So I know I'm on the way, right? Well, yeah. No, I don't think that either. Well, to be fair, some people who are gay do identify as bi first as a stop along the way. That is a true thing that happens. But that doesn't mean that everyone who identifies as bi is going to turn out.
00:20:18
Speaker
to be gay in the end. That part is a myth and it's probably because bisexuals are so invisible that that myth persists because there are more bisexuals than gay and lesbian people. They're 52% of the community is bi. So the idea that all those bi people are gonna be gay is not accurate.
00:20:39
Speaker
Yeah, completely. Here's another question. Isn't it risky to date a bi person? Can bi people really be satisfied with one partner? Yeah, I think that works out. And it's hard for people to imagine a bi person who's interested in all kinds of bodies being satisfied by one. And some bi folks don't just stick to one body, right? There is a lot of kind of
00:21:04
Speaker
polyamory and multiple relationships going on in the bi world. But that doesn't mean that a bi person can't just be strictly monogamous. Never cheat on anyone. I don't think I've ever had like a sexual encounter for example where I
00:21:19
Speaker
felt like I needed something else or I needed someone else there. Like those other pieces that if I'm with a man, you know, a woman has, like I'm fine without. Like it's perfectly okay as is. I think I get this question a lot and it's kind of frustrating and it's one of the biggest myths about bisexuality. And actually another person asked, are bi people more poly? And I get why people ask that because there are a lot of bi and poly people. Poly basically means you can be in multiple relationships at once. There's different forms.
00:21:48
Speaker
But they are totally different spectrums. There is some crossover. There are bi and poly people. There are bi and monogamous people. And bisexuality does not mean you need more than one person at any given time. It just means you are open to various types of people across the gender spectrum.
00:22:09
Speaker
Next question. And this is actually a question that my mom has asked me as well, which is, what is fluidity? And I think for my mom's sake, before we get into what is fluidity, it's important to note that we're often talking about two different spectrums when we talk about this. So there's gender fluidity and sexual fluidity. And gender fluidity is about your own gender identity or expression, whereas sexual fluidity is about
00:22:35
Speaker
the gender of your partner or potential partners and basically fluidity just means you're not locked into that binary of man woman either for yourself or for your potential partners. Yeah, maybe the best way to kind of look at it is like fluidity is is the ability for your gender your sexuality and
00:22:54
Speaker
or your gender expression maybe even to change over time, to shift in some way. The thing I would say that like genderqueer and genderfluid can mean similar things and it just means that they don't necessarily fit into a gender that like they see in front of them, right? It's a little bit more complex than that. Maybe it shifts, maybe it's something in between a man and a woman, maybe it's something kind of outside of that altogether.
00:23:19
Speaker
You know, being non-binary is kind of similar just because non-binary means you don't identify as a man or a woman generally. You're not in that gender binary. And trans folks typically don't align with the gender that they were assigned with at birth. They can align at the other end of that binary as a man or a woman, but they don't necessarily have to. They could identify as any of the terms that we just described, gender fluid, gender queer, non-binary. So you could be a trans and non-binary person.
00:23:48
Speaker
Yeah, completely. Plenty of those out there. There's all kinds of experiences of gender. And as the world at large is very fluid in all of these ways and very diverse, I think every individual person can feel that kind of fluidity in themselves.
00:24:00
Speaker
Yes, I also think it's just important to remember that a lot of people who use these labels, it means different things to different people. And so the things that we've described may not apply to everyone. These are sort of generalizations that we're making to help explain this to people who are not in this community. But if you are ever talking to someone who identifies one of these ways, genderqueer, genderfluid, non-binary, trans,
00:24:24
Speaker
any combination, it's okay to ask them what that means for them because it may mean something different than what we've just said and that's up to the person who identifies that way. Yeah. And be okay if they don't want to answer that question and just kind of move past it too. Yeah. Somebody else asks, can you be bisexual and trans or non-binary?
00:24:45
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, easy question. Moving on. Yeah, I think we can move on. No, we can briefly just say yes, of course, because like we just said, those are two different spectrums. And some trans and non-binary people might only be interested in a certain gender.
Bisexuality in Marriage: Unchanging Attractions
00:25:02
Speaker
And some might not. And they might be bisexual. So it's totally possible.
00:25:05
Speaker
Yeah. Next question. Somebody asked us, what's your sign? There's one I can answer briefly. I'm a Leo. Okay. Is that the line? Wait, I think I'm a Sagittarius rising. I have no idea what the fuck that means. Cool. Sorry, I'm getting out of control here, but I'm pretty sure those things are true.
00:25:23
Speaker
Okay, I'm Pisces, and I don't know what I'm rising as. I'm the Pisces. You're a rising podcaster, right? Yes. You're a rising podcaster. But the Pisces is like a two thing, it has like two fish, so maybe that's why. Are more Pisces people bi? I bet they are. I have no idea. Sure, I like that. Well, if you know what our signs mean, please comment and tweet to us and tell us if it affects our bisexuality or relates in any way. Yeah.
00:25:54
Speaker
Is a married person still bi? I get this all the time. So does that question mean like, if you're bisexual and you marry someone, are you still bisexual if your partner has a gender, I guess? Like, yes, of course, right? Yes. Just because your actions are maybe entirely with one gender now, that doesn't erase your attractions. Right. Picking a partner does not change anything about your openness to experience or your ability to be attracted to
00:26:22
Speaker
anyone. It just means you've chosen that person to spend your life with, and that's great. And most people in the world probably are monogamous, and so that makes sense. And actually, this makes me think of a question that comes up a lot that people ask me, which is like, are you still bisexual? And I think what people get confused between like fluidity and bisexuality, like some people think, well, if you're fluid, does that mean you're fluid between gay, straight and bisexual or something?
00:26:48
Speaker
And actually, like, I don't see it that way. In my life, I will be fluid, maybe, and I may prefer men or be with women, but bisexuality allows for all of that fluidity. And so I am still bisexual, and most people who identify as bisexual maintain that for the rest of their life because it allows for that fluidity. What about this one, Rob?
Gender Dynamics and Media Representation
00:27:10
Speaker
Are women more bi than men?
00:27:12
Speaker
That's a good question. I think that right now, actually we know from the statistics that there are more women who identify as bi than there are men. So technically right now I would say yes, but I also think it's important to remember that there is a little bit more stigma and shame associated with male bisexuality that I think especially guys don't feel that
00:27:38
Speaker
It fits into their version of masculinity or that like in order to maintain masculine norms, they can't express sexual fluidity. Well, and there's more repercussions. And because like being attracted to men is a feminine thing. Like, right? It is perceived that way. It is perceived that way. It's a traditionally feminine thing. Traditionally, yes. Whereas being attracted to women is a masculinity and masculinity is something that's
00:28:04
Speaker
that's kind of put on its pedestal and simplifying it a little bit. But I think we can change that, and I think bisexuality in men is really hot, and I know a lot of women that think it's really hot, and so I think that in the future, both men and women, regardless of gender, have equal capacity for queerness and capacity to be bi, but I do think right now it's a bit uneven. It's still very gendered.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, there's no scientific evidence that either sex or either gender is experiencing more bisexuality in any way. So another question that somebody asked is, what's the first media representation of bi men you remember seeing? Not much from early on. The first thing I can think of is,
00:28:48
Speaker
Unfortunately, Kevin Spacey in House of Cards as Frank Underwood which is super problematic now on the Kevin Spacey level because he is credibly accused of harassment and assault but also because of that character who was by He really used his bisexuality to have power over people with less power in the story And also he was a murderer and stuff spoiler So that was not great by representation but actually the first great representation that I can think of
00:29:18
Speaker
is Game of Thrones, Ser Oberyn. And he was so awesome and he's introduced with his female partner. He goes into this brothel, but they're both seducing this young hot guy. And he's just like so confident about it. And he's so awesome and badass. And I remember loving that portrayal and being so excited by that character. Have you ever been with a prince? Can't say I have.
00:29:42
Speaker
and wildly expensive. Take off your clothes. Which way do you like it? My way. Yeah. What about you? What's the first thing you can remember? I actually just thought of it. So it's a little different because it's not a bi man, actually, that I remember his first thing. But I don't think it mattered in this case because it still, in retrospect, was impactful. But I remember watching Buffy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Willow date some man for the first three seasons or so, played by Seth Green.
00:30:12
Speaker
and then ends up meeting a girl. There was an episode where she was kind of torn between her ex, who was a man, and her current girlfriend. And it was presented to me as a very bi experience right there.
00:30:24
Speaker
That's good that was there. I never watched Buffy, I should have. There was also Transparent, which didn't really necessarily have many bi-male characters, but both of the sisters were bi, clearly. But that also makes sense because it matches society, because it's harder for guys to come out. So I think that show was great bi-representation overall.
00:30:44
Speaker
And then there's been a lot more recently, like Schitt's Creek is doing really great things with their pansexual character. Brooklyn Nine-Nine has a bi character. It's a female bi character, so not male, but like the way that they handled it was so great and actually using the word bisexual on a network TV show was very cool.
00:31:04
Speaker
I cried when I saw it. Isn't there a show called the bisexual too? There's a show called the bisexual. There you go. Another great show. That counts. Yes. That definitely makes the list. Yes. But it's a woman, right? It's a woman. Still cool. But it's a great show that I loved. Good representation of that experience. Yeah. And Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has a bi male character and they had really good storylines for him too.
Perks and Challenges of Being Bisexual
00:31:44
Speaker
So we saved this question for last because it's like the funnest one maybe.
00:31:49
Speaker
So what do you consider to be the greatest bi perk, and what is the hardest part? I kinda like that bi perk. I like that. I think the hardest part is that I am not always believed, or the fear of not being believed, that I actually am bi. And the biggest barrier to coming out for me was I was afraid people would think I was gay, and I was afraid that women who I might wanna date would not wanna date me, because they would think I was gay,
00:32:18
Speaker
and I still wanted to continue dating women, so I think that's the hardest part. What's the hardest part for you? I would say that the hardest part is being assumed to be hypersexual, to be seen through the sex that I have, I guess is the easiest way of putting it. So I come out as bi and then somebody's threesome, that's an actual response, and it's like, no, I don't want a threesome, probably.
00:32:44
Speaker
You know, like my demisexual side comes out in that moment. It's like, why? Why would I want to? Right. I think we both feel our bisexual identity is about so much more than sex. It's almost a political worldview. And so people often do reduce it down to just sex.
00:33:00
Speaker
Yeah, completely. What about the the bye park? What's your bye park? I think my favorite thing about being by is like that Anything is possible really and that like it is being by has exposed me to all these new queer spaces where unexpected things are happening and like
00:33:19
Speaker
I like that. I have a high openness to experience and I really like having new experiences and by in addition to being just about gender has opened me up to all other types of things too and relationships with people and new ways of looking at things and so it just opens up so many fun possibilities.
00:33:40
Speaker
actually similarly I like what you were saying at the end like the possibilities are great and all of that the sexual possibilities are a good thing right like but I think honestly like it goes far beyond the sexual and romantic variety that I'm afforded and more about kind of what labeling is by
00:33:57
Speaker
and being openly bi has allowed me to see in the world around me, and in myself too, from a gender standpoint. Since being bi, I'm able to hold such different roles in my relationships, I guess is the easiest way to put it, that I can inhabit a more masculine and more feminine role, and depending on the person, that feels comfortable. And that was always a possibility, but it's just easier now. And actually, likewise, I feel like I'm able to see other people in,
00:34:24
Speaker
a less gendered way. I see their other factors before their gender, to some extent. Gender has frustrated me so much in my life and the way that we're a gendered world, that seeing the world as less gendered has really just given me a lot of benefit.
00:34:39
Speaker
I agree and I would add my bisexual identity has made me see intersectionality in a whole new way and has helped me see that all these categories that we put people in and then treat people based on our constructs and mostly bullshit and it's helped me, like you said, focus on the person and the content of our relationship or interaction and not to group people in arbitrary ways.
00:35:08
Speaker
those generalizations very quickly kind of lose their appeal. Right. And not just about sexuality, but all different types of categorizations. Yeah. And I guess that wraps this up for now. I think that's a good closing off point. Thank you all for all of your questions. I hope we answered some of them at the very least. And if you have more, keep them coming.
00:35:29
Speaker
And we also have some great guests coming up in the next handful of episodes. Next episode features Jay Christopher, perhaps best known as the first bisexual grand marshal of the Pride March, which is very cool. But he also has been doing activism in this space for many, many years. He's also an artist and a writer. He's also an anti-bias educator. And so he has a lot of great perspectives and insight to share about this stuff next week. Super exciting and a great interview.
00:35:59
Speaker
So thanks for listening today and we'll see you next week Our music is by Ross Mincer graphic design by Caitlin Wineman This podcast is edited by moxie pung and is also produced by moxie pung Matt lumas Rob Cohen and me Alex Boyd. Thanks for listening to you. Bye guys