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Fathers (feat. James)
91 Plays2 years ago
In this series, we are digging deeper into current and potential fatherhood. We are peaking through the eyes of several different men, all in different life stages. In this episode, we are interviewing James!
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Transcript
Introduction to James Grout
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome, welcome, welcome beautiful people, welcome pioneers. We are in season three through the eyes of men fatherhood.
00:00:48
Speaker
And I have just been so blessed to sit under all this wisdom and to kind of take a step back from all of the negative connotation we see from fathers and to get to hear fathers who are actually doing their job and who actually care and who are actually there. And on here today, I was able to meet him at church and he was talking about an organization that I know he'll talk about in a little bit. And after hearing him, I'm like, I need him on here.
00:01:17
Speaker
So today we have on here, James. So James, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Youth Ministry to Global Child Development
00:01:26
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. My name is James Grout and I live in Vancouver, Washington. And I grew up in Calgary, Western Canada. I lived in Chicago for 20 years, Chicago area for 20 years and Colorado for a few years. And I'm up here.
00:01:44
Speaker
I'm currently working for an organization called One Child, and we do global child development with children living in extreme poverty around the world. But my career up until I started with One Child, about six years ago, my career was youth ministry. So I was a full-time youth pastor and youth ministry church consultant for about 20, almost 25 years. And so a lot of my experience
00:02:12
Speaker
my experiences have been church-related experiences. I grew up in the church as well because my father was a pastor. So I've been surrounded by church life and people of faith for my entire life. And now I'm working for this organization that is a Christian organization. What we do around the world is
00:02:37
Speaker
is child development and that kind of stuff. But we do it in the name of Jesus. We do it because God's heart is for children and God's heart is for the outcast and the downtrodden and those who are ignored and taken for granted. So we really try and do what we can to reach out to those, what we call the kids who live in hard places. Yeah, that is so good.
00:03:06
Speaker
All right. First question.
Exploring Fatherhood Roles
00:03:09
Speaker
What is fatherhood? Yeah, that's a great question. And there's so many answers to it. So I would say fatherhood involves being a model for your children, being a nurturer. It involves being a provider. It involves being a protector and a defender.
00:03:37
Speaker
It involves being a listener. It involves being a disciplinarian sometimes. It involves, yeah, it's all of those things. And I think sometimes fatherhood gets sort of, I don't know, I think it, I think we think fatherhood is one thing and it can't be other things, but it can be all of those things that I just listed.
00:04:06
Speaker
What are some generalizations about fatherhood that need to be shut down? Well, if you watch TV, like every commercial ever that has a family in it, the father's the idiot in the commercial. The father's always dumb and doesn't know what's going on. And the mother has got everything organized and everything's, everything is brought together as soon as she comes on the scene. So I'm not personally that offended by that because it's funny and it's a stereotype and there's always some truth in stereotypes.
00:04:36
Speaker
But I think it's not true. It's not always true that the father doesn't know what's going on with his kids, that the mother takes the responsibility for everything related to the children and the father's just standing around, you know, whatever, just working and not really contributing to the family dynamic. So I think that's got to go. And I think
00:05:05
Speaker
I think that fathers are not nurturing. I think that's not true. I think sometimes men are sort of seen as the disciplinarians in a role, in the role of family, but not necessarily the nurturers. And that's just not true, at least not in my experience. Yeah. Is fatherhood challenging and why?
Fatherhood Challenges and Stereotypes
00:05:31
Speaker
It is challenging. So I'm a father of two. I have two daughters. Probably should have said that in the introduction. But I have two daughters and they are adults now. One is 18 and the other one is 20. And they're both out of high school now. So being
00:05:53
Speaker
a father is difficult in some ways at every single stage of fatherhood I think and I don't know what the stages are that are coming like the day they both move out or that they're both gone like what kind of what role do I play as a father then but I think the difficult things as a father when I was younger had a lot to do with the fact that I did I did work a lot I was
00:06:19
Speaker
So finding time to be with my children, finding time to really intentionally spend not just quality time, but quantity time with my girls, I think was really important. And that was a struggle just because I had a full-time job that was more than full-time. Youth ministry doesn't stop at five o'clock. You don't punch a clock and check out.
00:06:47
Speaker
And weekends were always busy. That's another thing that I think some fathers have the luxury of having weekends free with their family. And when you're in full-time church ministry, you do not have the weekends free. In fact, that's often the busiest time of your week. So that's difficult. And also just raising young women now, that's different too. That's difficult at times.
00:07:16
Speaker
Um, it's a different kind of parenting. When my, when my brother, my brother has two sons who are about the same age as my two daughters. And when they were all younger, I remember seeing how crazy and wild his sons were, just like when they were little boys and just like all over the place and wrestling and all that. And I was like, Oh man, I'm so glad I have girls. And now, and now they're like in their late teens and I'm like, wow.
00:07:42
Speaker
girls are difficult to lead teens. I wish I had those boys right now because they're pretty simple. So yeah, just the differences between raising little girls and raising grown girls is a challenge. But I love it. I love all of it. Every bit of it.
Influence of James' Father
00:08:00
Speaker
Is your father in your life and how has that affected your fatherhood? Yeah, he is in my life. My parents were older when they had me on the youngest of five. So
00:08:11
Speaker
I think they were late 30s when they had me. So my parents are now like, they're, they're old, they're old people. They're 92. They'll both be 92 this year, and they're still married, and they still live together there. And it's just a living place in Colorado Springs. And my dad's still in my life. And he has always played an important role in my life. He was definitely a model for me of, of faithfulness.
00:08:41
Speaker
um all the way along and uh certainly faithfulness to his to his marriage and to his family and to his um job and and definitely to his god and his primary role in my life now is he prays for me uh and my girls every single day and every one of my family plays for all of his kids and all of his grandkids and all of his great grandkids uh they pray for us every single day and i um
00:09:11
Speaker
I dread the day that they're not there to pray for us because I don't know who will step in and fill in that gap. And my dad's always had a good influence on me, always been a good, like I said, model for me. Yeah, so good. Was being a dad your plan or was it God's?
Journey to Fatherhood
00:09:29
Speaker
I think it's always a little bit God's plan, right? Definitely.
00:09:34
Speaker
So my two daughters are in, in their own way are sort of miracle babies. Um, my oldest daughter Camaria is, um, is adopted because my wife, uh, my wife at that time and I, we, we couldn't get pregnant. Nobody really doctors weren't really sure why, but we just decided that if we couldn't, then we would, then we would adopt and we'd always sort of each of us individually, even before we knew each other and before we were married.
00:10:03
Speaker
individually thought that adoption would be a good option for us. One day we both had very close friends who were adopted and and just just were open to it. So we adopted this little girl from the south side of Chicago and she's amazing and we weren't very far into being parents when my wife at the time said I think
00:10:29
Speaker
I think I might be pregnant. And so we, she went and got checked out and the doctor said, yeah, you're very pregnant, which I thought, are there degrees of pregnancy? Either you're pregnant or you're not, you're not like very pregnant, but she was already several months along. So Layla is our second daughter and she, she was born just about 17 months after Camaria. So they're 17 months apart and
00:10:58
Speaker
She was unexpected and Camaria was sort of a miracle adoption story as well. It's so good. Have you and your spouse ever had to deal with a miscarriage or stillbirth and how did you get through that? Yeah. So I'm not, I'm no longer married. So about six years ago, the girl's mother decided that she was done with our marriage and she moved along.
00:11:27
Speaker
And I don't need to tell that story. There's two sides to every story, but the main part of the story is just that she was no longer wanting to be in this marriage and now doesn't even live near us. But at the time that we were married, it was interesting. I think there were a couple of miscarriages, but we didn't talk about it.
00:11:55
Speaker
Um, she, she did not want to talk about it or, um, didn't feel it was necessary to talk about it. Didn't seem to be a struggle for her emotionally or in any way. So, um, so I, I just, we didn't, there was no, I know my, like my mother had a miscarriage at one point and I know that was, that was pretty traumatic for her. Um, in, you know, in some ways, um,
00:12:21
Speaker
But in other ways, she came from a different era where, you know, it was, he just didn't talk about it. He just, you just kind of just went on with your life. So, um, but anyway, she, so I, yeah, we did, I think there probably were a couple of children, uh, but that were miscarried, but we, it was never really talked about or dealt with. Yeah. Do you have a good slash close relationship with your kids?
Parenting Strategies and Values
00:12:48
Speaker
I do. Yeah.
00:12:50
Speaker
I mean, I spend a lot, I'm their full-time parent, so it's just me and them and the dog. So yeah, I do have a good relationship with them. Like I said, the transition from adolescence into adulthood, which is kind of where they're sort of in that mid-adolescence, early adulthood stage. That's a difficult one where the way you relate to your children changes. It's not the same.
00:13:19
Speaker
And so that's where we are right now is just how do I relate to them as adults? How do I release them to, you know, like, for example, this past week taught them both how to do their taxes, you know? So, I mean, it's a lot easier nowadays than it was when I was learning how to do taxes, but that's a part of my role. And it was fun. I enjoyed that. So I really liked them both a lot.
00:13:47
Speaker
Yeah, I like them. I love them, but I also like them. What do your kids do that soften your heart? One of the things that they do right now is they want me to find someone else. They want someone in my life.
00:14:08
Speaker
And so they talk about that a lot. And that always makes me feel like, oh, they care. They care about me. It may just be they're trying to get me out of their lives. So like, dad, you need somebody in your life. You're driving this crazy. But no, I think that's sweet, that they would care enough to want me to have someone else in my life. How do you deal with disobedience physically and emotionally?
00:14:39
Speaker
Well, I don't do anything with disobedience physically any longer. When they were younger, there were little things that we did to take away privileges and those kinds of things. And I think it's, again, it's just now as a father at this stage, it's almost like,
00:15:07
Speaker
almost everything that they do if it's if it involves disobedience or just you know whatever just sort of a normal human rebellion I'm at the point now where it's like these these are your that's a lesson you're going to have to learn on your own like I can't I can't take away privileges I can't punish you I can't do anything anymore you just are going to have to learn from that and that's actually that's actually a little bit harder as a father
00:15:33
Speaker
it'd be easier for me to say, well, here's the consequences of your actions rather than to say, wait till you find out what the consequences of those actions are. So, but, but that's, that's the job of a parent is why I always say it this way. The full time job of an adolescent is to, is to figure out who they are independent of their parents. That's what they're doing all the time. Every, every decision they make, every,
00:16:02
Speaker
every path that they choose, everything is just trying to figure out like, who am I? What's my identity? And specifically, what's my identity apart from the identity that my parents give me or place on me or whatever it is?
00:16:18
Speaker
And if that's true, which I think it is, then that means the parent's job is to be continually releasing them to discover more and more of who they are. You don't just throw them out there and let them figure it out on their own.
00:16:33
Speaker
but you do have to allow them to like, you know, when, when one of them, either of them does something that I know is going to hurt them. They're going to, it's going to hurt themselves. They are going to hurt themselves. That that's one of the hardest things for me to, cause I wanted to step in and go, you don't have to, you don't have to do this this way. There's another way, but they do have to, I had to, we all do. Like at some point we all have to learn, um,
00:17:01
Speaker
how to manage life without someone else rescuing us all the time. So good. What are you trying to instill in your daughters? Honesty is a big thing. That's something I got from my dad. Independence. I want them to be strong and independent women. I don't ever want my girls to feel like they can't make it in this world unless they have a man.
00:17:30
Speaker
I want them to have, I want them to have men. I want them to be married and have husbands and all of that and fall in love, like fall in love so deeply that they could be completely wounded by it. Like that's, you know, if you protect your heart too much, you'll never really know what love is. I think like you have to be all in and, and being all in means the chance to, you know, what happened to me? Like just to have my heart completely broken.
00:17:58
Speaker
And the one that I, you know, the one that I loved more than anyone else on this planet broke my heart. And I want them to fall that deeply in love. I hope they never have a broken heart like that, but I want it to be possible. Right. So and, and I also want, I want them to be adventurous. Like I really would love for them to travel. I would love for them to expand
00:18:26
Speaker
their experiences, the kinds of things that they experience and all of that. And they're both expanding right now, like trying new stuff out and trying to figure out what they love, trying to figure out what their pathway in life is going to be. So it's kind of a cool time. It's exciting. What are some unspoken promises, principles, characteristics, et cetera, that you want them to grasp just by watching you?
Balancing Faith, Work, and Parenting
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah, man, like loyalty, faithfulness. I don't want to be a volatile person. I want them to see someone who is steady, never gets too angry, and never gets too whatever disconnected.
00:19:18
Speaker
Uh, I want them to, yeah, like I said earlier, just a couple of seconds ago, I really want them to understand that that marriage is good. Um, and so I tell them all the time, like, I want them to catch that, but it's hard when, you know, when you've gone through a divorce, it's hard to, it's hard to say, look at, look at this great marriage and then model yourself after that.
00:19:44
Speaker
But I want them to believe in marriage. I want them to believe because I do. I really do. So I want them to believe in that too. And I hope they catch that from me, that I highly value commitment, faithfulness and the contract of marriage. I really believe in it. How do you incorporate your walk with Christ into your parenting?
00:20:09
Speaker
So I would describe my walk with Christ as one of communion. And that's what I want to teach my daughters is that my relationship is not just, my relationship with God is not just trying to do things for him, which is easy for people in ministry like me. It's easy to go, okay, I'm doing this for God. I don't wanna do things for God. I wanna do things with God. And I want them to see that
00:20:39
Speaker
in the way I live. So is church attendance important? Yeah, it's important. But that does not define your relationship with God. It doesn't define your faith. So if that's all they see is just church attendance, that's insufficient. It's not bad. It's just insufficient. It's not enough. And I want them to catch that I truly love and trust God.
00:21:08
Speaker
I'm, I think I don't know what the gift of faith is, but I think I have it. And I feel like I, if, if they can sense that and know that about me, that they would receive as well. So good. How do you balance work ministry kids and your own personal walk with God?
00:21:35
Speaker
Well, again, I'll start with the last part of that, my personal walk with God. Again, I describe that as communion, so I feel like that the balance for me is my day-to-day life, no matter what I'm doing. I work from home when I'm here, but I travel a lot.
00:21:56
Speaker
So routines, routines, like a specific time of day when I'm going to, you know, have, have a devotion time or something like that with God is, it's really difficult for me. Um, and has been for, you know, quite a few years just because of the travel. Um, but I'm, but I'm not worried about that because, um, because that's not, I'm not counting on that moment every day in order to set me, set me right in my relationship with God.
00:22:26
Speaker
Um, or just set me in tune with God. I'm trying to live, um, this life in communion with God at all times. So, um, that's how I would answer that when it comes to travel and being a dad, that's, that's one of the most difficult things is I feel like sometimes when I'm not here, there's just a disconnection, you know, they're doing their thing, you know, they both have jobs and they have cars and they have friends. So.
00:22:53
Speaker
It's not like I'm worried that they're sitting around doing nothing or that they're getting in trouble or anything like that. It's just that I just feel like it's hard to stay connected when I'm gone. And then sometimes it's hard even when I'm home and I'm home a lot. I mean, I'm in the house a lot when I'm home, when I'm not traveling because my office is here as well.
00:23:19
Speaker
That's, that's sometimes hard to have them having your office in your home and trying to be present for your children is difficult but I have the advantage of living on the west coast and where everybody that I work with, they shut down at like three, four or five o'clock.
00:23:40
Speaker
usually even two, three, four, five, and they're done. And that means that my workday usually ends at around four, which is great. It starts earlier, but it's great that it ends at around four. So I can be more available in the evenings for them. What challenges do you have as the Head of House and how do you overcome them?
Single Parenthood Challenges
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, well, Head of House ends
00:24:09
Speaker
there's just a lot of things that I do that even as I do them, I think to myself, this, this isn't meant to be done alone. Parenting is one of them, right? Parenting these girls, it's not meant to be done alone. Um, but I feel like, you know, I'm, I'm doing like, I'm kind of looking after all the cars, which is maybe that we own, like maybe that's a, that's sort of a traditional man's role, but I'm also the main cook in the house. I'm the one who cleans the house. Um, you know, I,
00:24:39
Speaker
There's just there's just a lot of things that It feels like there are moments where it feels like it's all on me Like it's you know, and they're they're growing up. So they're taking responsibility for a lot of things on their own but But there are moments where it feels the weight of being the head of this house Is is a pretty heavy one, but it's never overwhelming. It's never it's never too much. It's just a lot Yeah
00:25:08
Speaker
What falls through the cracks because of whatever is happening on a daily basis? What area are you?
Being Present for Important Moments
00:25:16
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think it would be interesting to ask my girls that question and see what they would answer. Um, because I think it's, it's probably in the areas of just, um, sitting and listening and being available to them. And I have to find the times when
00:25:34
Speaker
when they wanna talk, that's a big part of our job as parents is when do your kids want to talk? Because if I just, you know, grill them with questions, that's probably not gonna help.
00:25:47
Speaker
very much with our communication. It's when they are ready to talk, I need to be available and ready for that. So one of them loves to talk while she's cooking. So if she's in the kitchen making something, I do my best to be in the kitchen, because I know she's going to talk. And another is going to be more talkative when we're in the car, when we're on a drive somewhere. So trying to get in the car and go somewhere with her is always helpful to do that.
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think that being available like that is missing. And then just again with the travel, not being here, there's just been moments where I've missed some pretty important things. And I'm trying really hard not to do that anymore. So my younger daughter, I missed her first four birthdays because I had a mission trip that I did to Europe every year.
00:26:42
Speaker
on the same week. It was always the same week. And that was always the week of her birthday. So I was, I was absent for the first four birthdays. And then at some point I was like, okay, well, she's old enough now to know I'm not here for her birthday. So we need to make some big changes. And, and I did, I made some big changes with that trip. And it wasn't easy, but it was worth it. And then that's sort of been a pattern for me ever since is how do I, how do I do my job, which involves a lot of travel? How do I do that?
00:27:10
Speaker
without missing that really big important days. Do you find yourself overcompensating in any way for any reason? Yeah, I feel like I'm overcompensating for the fact that they don't have a mother who lives here. They have a mother. She's engaged in their lives, but she doesn't live here. And so I feel like that's something I'm trying to do.
00:27:36
Speaker
Yeah, and that's hard. You know, there are certain things that especially with girls that They they should be talking to their mom about this or walking through this with their mom or not their dad So I feel like I feel like I don't have a choice but to overcompensate some of those areas Um, but i'm up for it. That's fine with me too like that. Uh, I love it If if they can entrust me with things that girls would normally entrust only with their mothers then
00:28:05
Speaker
I'm, I'm game, I'll play, I'll play alone. I'm on board for that. So any, any way that anything I can do to help nurture them in their lives. And you want to know it's kind of the opposite for me, because my mom was a single mom and like just like your girls, like my dad's engaged, but we spent most of our time with our mom. So for me, it was kind of the same thing when it came to like guys or anything that I would
00:28:30
Speaker
supposed to go to my dad about, I would always go to my mom. And it's like, now being older, we both like laugh at it. And it's like, why did I ever ask my dad? It was like, because he wasn't physically there. Not that he wasn't engaged, but he wasn't physically there. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's weird. Which makes a difference. It doesn't mean it's impossible to go to them. It's just not right there. It's not as easy. Yeah, exactly. What do you do on the days you want to quit?
00:29:00
Speaker
Persevere I'm not a quitter. So that's that's a big part of it. But those days happen. I mean, there are days where it's like Yeah, I mean there's days where it's just it's it's not because it's hard it's usually because it hurts like sometimes it hurts to be a dad, right so It hurts to watch your kids struggle. It hurts to watch them be hurt by someone
00:29:30
Speaker
And so yeah, that's the, those are the, those are the rough days. Um, but, but I, you know, I won't ever quit. So I just, it's not in me. It's not in my nature. Yeah. Who has helped support you through your journey as a father? Other, uh, other older guys and even some who are younger than me who, um, who I look at like my, I have three older brothers and I've watched all of them.
00:29:59
Speaker
be husbands and fathers. My own father, obviously, was a huge influence on me. And then I have some really good friends, one who I know prays for me and my girls every Monday morning. He prays for me and then checks in with me. And just having someone like him who
00:30:26
Speaker
Um, you know, he's raising kids just about the same age as a little bit, a little bit younger, but just having someone like him kind of walking through the same stuff at the same time, that's super helpful for me. So I've got, I've got people, uh, I definitely have people that I can, that I can look to and talk to. Yeah. Is a spiritual father as important as a biological or at home father?
00:30:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's a tricky question. I would say it depends on what you mean by important. If you mean influential, I believe, this is my own philosophy, and others share this philosophy, but I believe that our biological parents are the most formative people we will ever have in our lives, for better or for worse. In one way or another, they will shape us.
00:31:21
Speaker
And that would be true of adoptive parents as well, I think so. So I would say as far as in importance when it comes to how we will learn about parenting and how we will learn about life, I think that biological or at home father and mother, they're going to be the most influential. They might not be the best, the best influence, but they will be the most influential.
00:31:49
Speaker
And so therefore, I think a spiritual father stepping in to fill in gaps of an at-home father is probably, that's probably an important role. That is a very important role as well. And I've had some spiritual fathers in my life who played that role for me as well. That's so good. I never thought about it like that.
00:32:21
Speaker
Well, that's a great question. I mean, really, I mean, when you think about it, we all, all of us have a father. And then all of us have people who are not our father, who, who play some role in helping us establish sort of what, what a good father is, and what a good man is, and what a trustworthy, you know, a model that we should follow after. So it happens in both. But
00:32:48
Speaker
But all of us have to experience both of those, I think, in some way. What do you wish you were told about fatherhood beforehand? I think, hmm, I thought I had a good answer for this one, but now I'm trying to decide whether or not it's a good answer. I think just how
00:33:16
Speaker
I love it. I mean, I love it so much. Here's one of the things. I used to think about being a father when I was younger. And even when I was first married, we didn't have children for the first 10 years of our marriage. So I always thought about being a father. But in my mind, I thought about being a father to boys. I don't know why. No one said you had to think that way. And I didn't know whether or not I would have boys. But in my mind, I was always thinking,
00:33:44
Speaker
if I had sons, this is what I would do. And then I didn't have sons, I had daughters, two of them. And so I feel like in a way, I don't know, I feel like I wish I would have been prepared. I wish someone had talked to me maybe more about how to be a dad to girls, just in case that happens. I don't know if that's something, like, is that what you do? Like, do you teach somebody how to be a dad to girls and then they have boys or whatever? So.
00:34:12
Speaker
But I, but I, I'm so glad that girls, I'm so thankful and I love them and I've loved being their dad. And it's, there's so many things about it that I never would have known or predicted that someone probably could have told me, but just like everything, even if someone had told me, I still would have had to learn it the hard way, probably. So good. What is one thing you wish you were told by your father?
00:34:45
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's, it's hard for me to think about my father and come up with something that he didn't do for me. Or model for me. I mean, really, he really was a big, I think a big part of, of who I am, just comes from
00:35:10
Speaker
who he lived and the way he lived his life out in front of me, in front of all of us as kids. So yeah, I don't know that there's anything that I kind of wish he had told me or prepared me for or anything like that. Yeah. What is one thing you were told by your father that you use often? Well, be a man of your word.
00:35:34
Speaker
Um, that was, that was always a big thing. And I was actually, I was kind of a liar when I was a teenager. So not kind of, I was a really good liar. When I was a teenager, my, my entire life was sort of just a big cover up. You know, everything that I was doing, I had to cover it all up because I was a pastor's kid. And
00:35:52
Speaker
and didn't want to get didn't want my dad to get in trouble didn't want to have him have a bad reputation because of me so I just had I was I was layering lie upon lie just to keep the whole thing going and and he I remember a really distinct encounter where you know I'd been caught in a pretty big lie and he just he just sat me down and just
00:36:18
Speaker
And just said, you know, if, if you, if you're not a man of your word, no one will ever trust you. He'll never have people in your life who can trust you. And man, what, what would be worse than not being trusted by anyone? That just sounds horrible to me. So, uh, that's true for me. And that's something, I mean, it's, I got that from him. Uh, and he got it from his father too. That's, I didn't, I didn't know my grandfather. Uh, he, he passed away when I was just a baby, but.
00:36:48
Speaker
But the one thing my dad always talks about is he was an honest man. He was a man of his word. And so I want to be that too. And I want my girls to be that as well. I want them to understand how important that is that if you want people to believe you and believe in you and trust you, then you have to be trustworthy. Yeah. So good. What is one thing you want to tell other fathers?
00:37:19
Speaker
I think it's John Mayer who said, fathers be good to your daughters. For daughters will love like you do. Girls become lovers and turn into mothers. So mothers be good to your daughters too. I don't really like John Mayer at all, but that particular chorus to that particular song is so good and solid. Especially fathers of daughters.
00:37:49
Speaker
Well, it doesn't matter, sons too. Like they will learn everything they understand about being a man. Your sons will learn everything that they understand about being a man from what you model, not what you tell them, but what you model for them. And same thing is true for your daughters. They'll understand everything that they will look for in a man based on what you model in front of them. It doesn't mean they'll end up with that.
00:38:18
Speaker
exact person or whatever, but they will, that will be the measuring stick for your children is what kind of a man you were in the way you lived, not just in the way you talked, not just in the rules that you set up, but in the way you lived your life in front of them. And I would say especially when things are difficult.
00:38:41
Speaker
It's easy to be a good dad when everything's fine. It's also easy to be a bad dad when everything goes south. And I think that's when you have to, that's when dads really need to step up and step into their role. What do you tell your kids often? I love you no matter what. That's a phrase that I repeat to them because
00:39:09
Speaker
And I used to say this in youth ministry, when I would look for volunteer leaders in our youth ministry, I would say to them, listen, don't, you know, I would, I would actually interview, we had a whole like application process and everything just to be a volunteer in our ministry. And I just, one of the main questions I would ask them is, do you love teenagers? Because I guarantee you, you will not always like them. That's a guarantee. So if you don't love them at the moments when you don't like them,
00:39:38
Speaker
That's a problem. And there are moments, right? There are moments in every parent's journey with their own children where I don't like you right now. Like I don't like the way you're acting. I don't like the way you're treating me. I don't like the way you're treating yourself. I just don't like any of that, but I love you no matter what. And so my girls, they hear that one from me pretty regularly. What do you think needs to be talked about more as it pertains to fatherhood?
00:40:07
Speaker
I think I touched on it earlier, but I think the idea that fathers are nurturers, that needs to be talked about more. Children need their dads to be nurturing. And if the default in a family is that dad does the punishing and mom does the nurturing, that shapes a child.
00:40:31
Speaker
And I don't, I don't mean like, I don't mean like you want your children to grow up without any discipline or grow up thinking that dad's a wimp or something like that. I just think that God is a, God is a nurturing God. I mean, if there's a model, if there's a model for a father, it's our heavenly father, right? And he's a nurturing God. He's also
00:40:54
Speaker
uh a god of judgment is also a god of righteousness but he is a god uh who you know loves the world so much that he would completely give up himself he would give up his uh you know his own son like that's how much he loves the world this is a this is a model for us that's a um
00:41:19
Speaker
That's something that I think our society maybe at some point, and I don't want to get into the whole history of everything, but at some point, men had to be hard and difficult and always strong and never show softness and never show weakness. And I've cried with both of my daughters.
00:41:39
Speaker
individually in the last month, in the last two weeks. And that's good. That's not bad. It's not bad for them. When my heart's broken for them or for someone else, for them to see that and know that, that's huge and important. So I think there's something there about the fact that fathers can be tender without being like, you know, wimp.
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah. So good. In fact, I would say fathers must be tender. They must be tender. Yeah. At some point. So good. So good. Do you think there's a lack of fathers and why? Um, I mean, I guess statistically speaking, there are, um,
00:42:32
Speaker
It's a hard question to answer because, um, what does it mean? There are a lack of fathers, you know, in some, in some communities, um, like in, in the inner city, there are definitely a lack of fathers in the home, right? There's not, there's lots of fathers there, but they're not usually, they're not always in the home. Um, and where we work around the world in extreme poverty, uh, often the kids that we work with around the world, they're, they're being raised by a mom.
00:43:00
Speaker
who has a full-time job, sometimes two or three full-time jobs. Or they're being raised by grandparents, right? Their parents are completely gone. So yeah, there's definitely a lack of fathers in homes. And I don't know what the percentages would be, and it would change from one culture to another. It would change from one neighborhood to another. But there's definitely that. But I think there's a lack of maybe for a
00:43:29
Speaker
for a lack of a better way to say it. There's a lack of daddies. There's everyone has a father, but not everybody has a daddy. And I think a lot of things that we see with stunted development in young people, young men especially, I think comes from the fact that there's no daddy in their life. They never had a daddy. They just had a father who
00:43:58
Speaker
Yeah, maybe was there maybe wasn't there. So good. What is your hope for your future as a father? And what is your hope for your kids? Yeah, the big hope for me is I sometimes I think I said earlier is that I would continue to release them to be the people that God has created them to be in that that we as parents nurtured them to be and allow them to
00:44:28
Speaker
uh be independent and live live as individuals and uh that's my that's my dream for them is that they would feel like they can make it in this world and they you know i'm always going to be here but but they can make it in this world and they can do it on their own and they don't have to have some prince charming come in and rescue them because they are able to do it on their own i want them to have a prince charming but
00:44:58
Speaker
Those don't exist, I guess. They're few and far. Yeah. Yeah. So my goal for myself is to be able to continue to release them and feel good about that and be strong in that and faithful in that. And then for them, it's just that they would be strong, independent women who get to see some of their dreams come true.
00:45:27
Speaker
Do you think this generation of fathers have things harder or easier than you have them? By this generation, you mean fathers who are becoming fathers right now? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's tough right now in many ways to be a father. Not because you can't do a good job as a father. It's because, well, one of the things is there's just so much competition for your children's attention.
00:45:57
Speaker
And I think it would be easy for fathers to abdicate their responsibilities because their kids aren't asking for things from them as much as kids used to, or maybe don't have the perceived need from their father. Like, you know, I think back to when kids learned kind of everything from their dad, you know, they learned, like I'm thinking about
00:46:24
Speaker
kids who learned how to throw a baseball or learn how to ride a bike or learn how to fix a car. Yeah, that kind of stuff. A lot of kids learn things from their dads. And now, you know, they learn stuff on YouTube, which I'm not blaming them. Like it's pretty easy. Like there's a way to learn stuff. So yeah, I would be concerned
00:46:51
Speaker
for dads coming up now that would be easy for them to just sit back and let their kids sort of educate themselves. I think staying engaged is really important and really hard, both of those things. Yeah. What is something you have to say to this generation of men and fathers? Yeah, well, yeah, I don't want to quote John Mayer again, but.
00:47:21
Speaker
Um, yeah, I think, I think, I think career for many years, career for many men, I should say it this way, maybe for, for a lot of people, career defines you. And in the end, if your career is the only thing that defined you, um, that'll be a pretty sad existence, uh, because
00:47:51
Speaker
if God gives you children, that's a legacy. And, you know, the best you can hope for with a career is that maybe, maybe someday you're, you pass it on to your son and that becomes part of a legacy as well. But, but if it's just about putting money in the bank and having a good retirement fund or whatever, that's not legacy. And your children, um,
00:48:21
Speaker
I really believe in generations, in generational development, and what this generation pours into the next generation will have a huge impact on what that generation pours into the following generation. And I really believe that that's our responsibility. And I do think that men need to take the lead in that. They cannot sit back passively and say, man, I hope somebody really invests in my kids.
00:48:49
Speaker
They have to take the lead they have to be we men have to be the ones who Step up and say I will I will leave my children. I will leave my family and And I'll be faithful in it. So yeah, so good and last question What is something you have to say to this generation of women and mothers?
00:49:19
Speaker
I, um, wow. That's a tough one too for me. So it's tough one to answer as a single dad. Um, I can say this, uh, your marriage, your marriage matters to your children. They, they will learn what they learn.
00:49:48
Speaker
about being a woman, your daughters, and about being a man, your sons, they will learn what they learn about those things by watching you and your relationship with their father. And so this is maybe controversial. I don't think it should be, but it might be controversial. But I believe that the primary relationship in a family is the marriage.
00:50:17
Speaker
It's not the parenting. It's not the father to child. It's not the mother to child. It's the husband to wife, the wife to husband. That's the primary relationship.
00:50:29
Speaker
there's a reason that the church is called the Bride of Christ. I mean we're also called adopted children so I guess you could look at it that way but there's a reason that the church is called the Bride of Christ and that's because the marriage is a relationship, that is a model
00:50:47
Speaker
for our relationship with our God. And if we screw up marriage in front of our children, and this is hard for me to say, but if we screw up marriage in front of our children, it's going to be harder for them to see what a healthy relationship with God looks like. That's what I think. And again, that may be controversial. Maybe people would really strongly disagree with that, but
00:51:13
Speaker
I think the primary relationship in a family is the marriage, and out of good marriages comes good parenting. Yeah. So good. But good parenting might not lead to good marriages, and that's really important. Oh, that's so good. So much wisdom. Thank you so much for being on here. It was an absolute blast. Yeah, it was fun. I appreciate you inviting me on.
00:51:42
Speaker
Oh, no problem. Well, guys, with that, that concludes the end of this episode. Make sure you go to the website, the Patreon, like, follow, share. If this blessed you in any way, do not keep your mouth closed. Share this with someone. And take this and go change your life, the community, and the world. And with that, we say bye, pioneers, bye, beautiful people.
00:52:07
Speaker
So