Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
E104: Dave Lisch in the house!
254 Plays1 month ago
Jerid is out this week (probably buying more golf clubs), so I have ABS Mastersmith, Dave Lisch join me to talk about the ABS, making damascus and all things bladesmithing and knife making. Come listen in!
Your hosts:
Denis Tyrell of Tyrell Knifeworks:
IG: @tyrellknifeworks
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TyrellKnifeworks
Website: https://www.tyrellknifeworks.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Tyrell-Knifeworks/61558767232017/
ABS MS - Dave Lisch
IG: @davidlisch/
Website: http://davidlisch.com/
Maker's Spotlight:
Our sponsors:
Two Basterds Tx Smithy & Supplies: @twobasterdshammers
Maritime Knife Supply: http://maritimeknifesupply.com
Pelican Paste: https://pelicanpaste.com (Use TTT10 for 10% off!)
Baker Forge and Tool: https://www.bakerforge.com (Use TTT10 for 10% off!)
Grip Tech Composites: https://rocksolidscales.com/ (Use TTT10 for 10% off!)
Evenheat Kilns: Https://Evenheatkilns.com/
Ameribrade: https://www.ameribrade.com/
The Drop Point: https://thedroppoint.com/
Podcasts we think you'll like:
- Hustle and Grind
- Work For It
- Fire and Steel
- KnifeTalk
- FullBlast
- ForgeSideChat
- Artisans of Steel
- Knife Perspective
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Announcement
00:00:16
Denis Tyrell
Hey everybody, thanks for joining us on the Triple T for Knife Makers podcast. I'm Dennis Terrell from Terrell Knife Works. And today Jared is, who knows what he's doing, off golfing, who knows. But it's my pleasure to have the one and only Dave Lisch joining us tonight, today, whenever you're listening to this. So Dave, thanks for joining us.
00:00:37
David
Hey, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
00:00:41
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:00:41
David
haven't done a podcast in a while.
00:00:43
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, I am excited to talk all things ABS with you, among other things.
Super Bowl and Trebuchet Game
00:00:48
Denis Tyrell
But I think we got to open, since you are from Washington, and I'm from San Francisco, we got to talk about the Super Bowl.
00:00:58
David
All right.
00:00:58
Denis Tyrell
and oh so what did you do when the when a quarterback got sacked?
00:00:59
David
Well, yeah, I watched the game. In fact, I even invented a little game for my super Super Bowl party. I made a a trebuchet that shot footballs. And every time any team scored, we all got up and shot the trebuchet through the field goal post and kept score.
00:01:15
David
It was pretty fun.
00:01:22
Denis Tyrell
but Because I know that happened a lot.
00:01:23
David
ah we just We just weeped a little bit for him.
00:01:27
Denis Tyrell
I got to admit, I didn't actually watch the game because probably my two least favorite teams in the league were playing.
00:01:28
David
Yeah.
00:01:32
David
Oh.
00:01:36
Denis Tyrell
Being a 49ers fan, you know, I can't really root for the Seahawks.
00:01:39
David
Okay.
00:01:40
Denis Tyrell
But um I did watch the highlights and it was a blowout. Your Seahawks did really well.
00:01:47
David
Yeah. You know, it was funny. There was never any really big explosive plays. They just played really safe, clean defensive football. And, you know, there was some good runs.
00:01:57
Denis Tyrell
They were killing it.
00:01:59
David
Of course, Walker had some good runs. But
Football Fandom Journey
00:02:01
David
other than that, it wasn't it wasn't like any big downfield throws that were wonderful, you know. It just... It was not that exciting of a game, really.
00:02:10
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, no, I'll give it that.
00:02:11
David
Yeah.
00:02:11
Denis Tyrell
I did catch all the highlights and except I think the fumbles were were the the the fumbles and the turnovers were the highlights.
00:02:20
David
Yeah, no, there was that one ah turnover that was ran in for the pick six was awesome.
00:02:26
Denis Tyrell
Yes, yeah.
00:02:27
David
And that was probably the the most exciting play of the game. So anyway, you know, I used to be a ah San Francisco fan years ago back in the days of Gary Rice and Joe Montana.
00:02:30
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:02:39
David
But that's when I lived in California. And then I moved out here and i kind of got out of football for a while. And then, of course, started watching football at once I moved to the country about 10 years ago.
00:02:51
David
and I'm kind of football geek now because it's really, yeah, it's a great way.
00:02:54
Denis Tyrell
See, um I'm not really... yeah so I've never really been much of a football fan, but my wife is like a diehard football fan. Like, I will be in the shop Sundays and she will be glued to the TV all day watching every game.
00:03:05
David
yeah.
00:03:11
Denis Tyrell
So, yeah, I'm not really that much of a sports fan, but she really is.
00:03:15
David
Yeah, I don't know.
00:03:15
Denis Tyrell
So now I kind of watch it because...
00:03:16
David
I find it a great way to entertain myself other than watching TV. It's something kind of exciting. So I record all the games and then I watch them in the sequence that they played.
00:03:27
David
So the ones that came out in the morning, I'll watch first through the week, you know, and then by by by Sunday, by next weekend, I've seen them all.
00:03:30
Denis Tyrell
Oh, okay.
00:03:34
David
And then I watch, you know, I watch almost all of them because it's something I enjoy. So, yeah.
00:03:39
Denis Tyrell
Wow.
00:03:40
David
Yeah.
00:03:40
Denis Tyrell
Well, your team did well, so congratulations. You guys deserved it.
00:03:43
David
Thank you. Yeah, we're all pretty happy, and Seattle's going crazy right now.
00:03:46
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, i bet.
00:03:47
David
ah
00:03:47
Denis Tyrell
Is there a big parade there or something?
00:03:49
David
Wednesday. Wednesday's the parade, and last night downtown, they went nuts.
00:03:51
Denis Tyrell
Wednesday. Wednesday.
00:03:54
David
It was all on the news, and everybody's pretty stoked. City's bringing in, I think it was like over $250 million dollars from the Super Bowl, and it wasn't even here.
00:04:06
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, it was here.
00:04:08
David
Right, i know. It wasn't in Seattle, and we still... Did over $250 million dollars in revenue for the city. So that's pretty good.
00:04:16
Denis Tyrell
that's
Path to Bladesmithing
00:04:17
Denis Tyrell
cool. So for folks that may not know you, don't know who that would be, but Dave is an ABS master smith. He's one of the one of the guys I went up to see last April.
00:04:30
Denis Tyrell
if I can't believe that's almost a year a year ago now.
00:04:33
David
Yeah, time's been flying by so fast.
00:04:36
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, sure has. ah So what do I'd like to know, and I think you told me when I was there, but tell everyone, how did you get into bladesmithing? How long, you know, how long has it been? What's, what's, give me the origin story for Dave Lish.
00:04:49
David
Okay, so it's probably around, it's probably been about 20 years now, probably around 2006. I went to a blacksmithing conference and I was making some blacksmithing hammers. And a guy wanted one of my hammers and traded me for some Damascus making steel. And he goes, hey, I really like your hammer. I can't afford it, but I have some supplies for making Damascus.
00:05:15
David
And I asked him literally, I said, what is Damascus? And he's like, you're kidding me. I go, no, I'm not. And he pulled out this blade and showed me. I was like, oh, wow.
00:05:26
David
You can make that with these steels? He goes, well, you can make the steel, you know. You have to learn how to make a knife with it. I says, all right, let's trade. So the hammer was a couple hundred bucks. I got a couple hundred dollars worth of steel. And that started my journey. I got somebody to show me how to weld it together. and it just went from there. One thing led to another. And i then i after I got made Damascus, I got to learn how to make a knife.
00:05:53
David
So then i actually, I reached out toward, yeah, I made the steel before I made a knife.
00:05:53
Denis Tyrell
That's funny. You really did the opposite.
00:05:59
David
And then I reached out and asked Bob Kramer if he would come teach a class at my blacksmithing shop. And I talked him into it. And that was my first class. And then I took it
00:06:10
Denis Tyrell
And he was a master smith then, but then
00:06:12
David
Yes, he was a master smith, and he had really recently just had a big article in the New Yorker, I think, and he was kind of blowing up at the time, but still took the time to come teach class at my shop.
00:06:12
Denis Tyrell
was
00:06:23
Denis Tyrell
That's awesome.
00:06:23
David
And yeah, and then I took another class that helped a little bit with some handle construction from a guy that made knives out of Jantz blanks.
00:06:35
David
But I learned some cool handle stuff that I still use some of it today. He passed away. His name was Elliot Wakefield. Ray Rock Springs Knife Shop up off of ah Highway 2 as you're heading over Highway 2 into Leavenworth.
00:06:50
David
He had a little shop right there after you passed the ski resort after you crested over.
00:06:53
Denis Tyrell
Okay.
00:06:55
David
Yeah, he was a cool guy. And then I met a guy, Tom Ferry, who was, he was actually, well, he is one of the best Damascus makers to ever make Damascus. I mean, at the time, He was just blowing everybody's mind. He was doing some of the most creative stuff. And I happened to meet him. And he showed me not only some stuff about making Damascus.
00:07:19
David
But about knife making. And yeah. Kind of took it from there.
00:07:22
Denis Tyrell
What year is this?
00:07:25
David
That would have been about 2007. 2008. Yeah. Well believe. might even been earlier. 2006 because.
00:07:29
Denis Tyrell
Oh, so early on. Yeah.
00:07:31
David
yeah well i believe it might have even been earlier two thousand and six because I tested for my journeyman Smith in 2009.
00:07:42
David
I got my journeyman Smith. So it's
00:07:43
Denis Tyrell
Okay. What's
Journeyman and Master Smith Testing
00:07:44
David
those dates are probably not accurate.
00:07:44
Denis Tyrell
my next question? Yeah.
00:07:46
David
I had already been making knives for three years at least before I took my journeyman Smith test. And actually I went to Blade Show and didn't hold the table or anything twice before I went and tested.
00:08:01
David
I just went and walked the show, looked at what everybody else was doing, hung out with my friend Tom. Um, and just, you know, got a feel for it.
00:08:12
David
And I think anybody should do that really, because if you go to the show, the first time you go and you have a table, you don't see anything.
00:08:15
Denis Tyrell
Absolutely.
00:08:18
David
Uh, you can't really enjoy the show. Um, so it's really good to just go to blade show, I think. and And I know everybody can't do that, but that's what I did.
00:08:27
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:08:27
David
And so my first year, my first table was the year I tested.
00:08:27
Denis Tyrell
and And if you.
00:08:31
Denis Tyrell
Wow, that's awesome.
00:08:33
David
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:34
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, and i definite I definitely agree on that.
00:08:34
David
Yeah.
00:08:35
Denis Tyrell
I tell people if you're, you know, definitely, I think everyone should go as a spectator. And even if you get a table, bring a friend so you're not marooned at your table the entire time.
00:08:45
David
ah Yeah, for sure. Somebody to watch your table you can go see something, right? Otherwise, you're just stuck there.
00:08:48
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, or the bathroom. or like
00:08:51
David
Yeah.
00:08:52
Denis Tyrell
But yeah, you want to tour around and talk to friends and see what everyone else is doing and what other cool things are there.
00:08:55
David
Yeah. I don't know they still offer tester tables, but at the time I tested for journeyman, you could get a tester table, which was half of a table, half the price, in the very back of the room, and you split it with somebody else that was testing.
00:09:11
David
And that's what I did.
00:09:11
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. When, when I did my journeyman in 23, um, they, they did offer that.
00:09:18
David
They did offer that, yeah.
00:09:18
Denis Tyrell
I already had my table, so, so it didn't matter, but, um,
00:09:21
David
Yeah, that is pretty cool, though, of your, you know, you're not going to make any money, maybe. You know, you you never know. So to keep the cost down if you're going to test was kind of nice.
00:09:31
Denis Tyrell
so I've heard mixed things, um, about this and, uh, I, I was told that when I tested that I had to have a table.
00:09:31
David
Yeah.
00:09:42
Denis Tyrell
And, but now, what it was that, you did you have to have a table the time that you tested?
00:09:42
David
Huh.
00:09:49
David
I don't think so. I think that was something they offered you. I think you could go there and test as part of the ABS because they have the ABS rents their own room, you know.
00:09:58
Denis Tyrell
Right.
00:09:59
David
um
00:09:59
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, maybe it was just my understanding that I had to have a table and no one actually told me that.
00:10:03
David
ah Yeah, because I did not. I've not i've not heard that do you have to have a table to test. You have to be there to test. That might be the confusion.
00:10:11
Denis Tyrell
okay maybe it was my confusion
00:10:11
David
You know, a lot of people want to send their knives and not even show up. Right. You can't do that. I think they've made an exception or two, but you pretty much physically have to be there to test.
00:10:24
Denis Tyrell
yeah that makes total sense to me you want to hear feedback and you want to they they want to see the person that they want to know who they're letting into the club here right uh
00:10:29
David
Yeah.
00:10:34
David
Right. ah
00:10:37
Denis Tyrell
So 2009, how big, how big, how many tables do you think Blade Show was then?
00:10:37
David
Yeah.
00:10:42
Denis Tyrell
I'm curious compared to now.
00:10:44
David
Oh, gosh. It wasn't nearly as big. As it is now, I mean, yeah, I would say it's probably about half the size it is now or less.
00:10:51
Denis Tyrell
Was it like the back room only kind of?
00:10:56
David
Because like literally, you know, they just kept opening up the room and pushing. They had these movable walls and they just kept pushing them back, pushing them back until they're gone now. And it just goes right into the loading dock.
00:11:09
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:10
David
And back then there was actual walls and then behind the walls was the concessions. And then behind the concessions was the loading docks, you know, some room.
00:11:21
David
And now it's just, boom, right there.
00:11:23
Denis Tyrell
yeah
00:11:24
David
It's pretty much, I kind of feel like it's sort of outgrowing itself a little bit. I mean, I know a lot of people go there and do good, but it seems like there's just almost too many makers at the show for everybody to be successful or do well, no matter how good their knives are.
00:11:45
Denis Tyrell
Right. I mean, I've said many times this. it There are like MasterSmith, you know, people like yourself. Obviously, the collectors are going to come and look for you. But for like the average maker, it's the worst place to be selling knives.
00:12:00
Denis Tyrell
you get there's There's no more competition than Bladeshell.
00:12:01
David
yeah exactly exactly agreed and uh it's you know i like i said so 2000 i've been doing it for over 20 years i missed during covert like everybody did but other than that i've been a loyal uh body at the blade show for over 20 years and doing that it builds repetition with the customers And they see you and you get to know you get they get to know you.
00:12:31
David
And I believe a big part of selling knives, no matter how good the knives are, is the relationship with the collectors. Like
00:12:40
Denis Tyrell
Absolutely,
Building Collector Relationships
00:12:41
David
that is what happens is you end up developing relationships with these people that buy the knives and get to know them over time.
00:12:41
Denis Tyrell
yeah.
00:12:48
David
And the longer you know the more likely they're going to collect your knives and want more knives. And that's been that's been how it's worked for me.
00:12:57
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, and you definitely have a good customer base, so you've been doing well.
00:12:57
David
Yeah.
00:13:02
Denis Tyrell
um So, okay, so JS in 2009, when did you test for master?
00:13:11
David
But that was two years after I was going to go in 2013. um And I tried to go too big. And I made this crazy dagger that, oh gosh, you know, it had had a top guard that came up and yeah almost like leaves that kind of rolled up and rolled back out and then I had a spacer and below the spacer I had another not really guard but a spacer with two um tenons coming off that came out to make rings and pierce the top guard so it was a double I basically just tried to go way too big double ring guard uh dagger and I got frustrated and I couldn't get it right i knew it wasn't gonna pass and
00:13:59
David
I was driving Andrea crazy. so if I pulled the plug. And I set that knife aside. And I went back to, you know, I did the show that year and I just sold knives.
00:14:11
David
And I waited two more years. And when I finally went in 2015, I dialed the dagger back. I still made a beautiful dagger. And I did some like art deco style like clams.
00:14:24
David
It had five lobes, like one big lobe and two on each side. And it was elongated and the insides hollowed out. Quillian dagger. So it was beautiful. My whole theme was my um flying dragon thunder Damascus. All the pieces in the set had that same pattern. But different variations of it.
00:14:48
David
Yeah. And i I was really proud of my set. And that's something that I'm kind of glad I waited. I did pass. um I was in a room with five.
00:15:01
David
There was five of us that tested and all five of us passed. And yeah, it's very rare.
00:15:04
Denis Tyrell
Wow.
00:15:07
David
It's very rare.
00:15:08
Denis Tyrell
That's really surprising.
00:15:08
David
In fact, they didn't call us in one at time. They just called us all in. And so my my classmates were Andrew Mears, Haley DeRosiers,
00:15:20
Denis Tyrell
okay.
00:15:21
David
ah Jean-Louis and Valarique Veronique.
00:15:26
Denis Tyrell
Oh, yeah, Veronique.
00:15:27
David
Is there a name? Yeah.
00:15:28
Denis Tyrell
yeah, yeah.
00:15:29
David
Veronique. So those were my classmates. And yeah. All still good Smiths today.
00:15:36
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, that's ah I don't know the first guy, but I know everybody else.
00:15:41
David
You don't know Andrew Mears?
00:15:43
Denis Tyrell
At least it doesn't ring a bell. I may have seen his work.
00:15:47
David
You need to look at Andrew Mears' work.
00:15:47
Denis Tyrell
but
00:15:50
David
He actually won the award.
00:15:51
Denis Tyrell
Oh, really?
00:15:52
David
Yeah, he did. Yeah. His his dagger was just Amazing. And it had like little pockets that opened up on the pommel. And it had inlays in it. He does little animal characters and dragons. I mean, you have to look at his work.
00:16:10
Denis Tyrell
Hmm.
00:16:11
David
Bugs. Things like that. He inlays them in gold and silver on his knives. and And carves them.
00:16:16
Denis Tyrell
Very cool.
00:16:17
David
So they'd be like raised, carved bugs on his work. I've done a couple collaborations with him. Yeah.
00:16:25
Denis Tyrell
Hmm. Well, I'll have to give him a give him a look.
00:16:28
David
And in my Journeyman Smith class was a Kyle Royer, Mike Quisenberry, Aaron Wilburn are the three that I can remember.
00:16:33
Denis Tyrell
Oh, I know Kyle. Mm-hmm.
00:16:40
Denis Tyrell
Wow.
00:16:41
David
and I kind of went around.
00:16:42
Denis Tyrell
and know all those guys. Wow.
00:16:43
David
Yeah, I went around the show and kind of talked to some of them. And after Blade Show, I called up Mike Quisenberry and I said, hey, I'm Dave. We tested together. He's like, yeah.
00:16:55
David
I said, we're going to be friends. He's like, what? I go, yeah, I've decided we're going to be friends. He goes, well, okay. So I didn't really give him much choice.
00:17:07
David
And we've been friends ever since.
00:17:10
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, that's kind of like Rick and I. I think he did that to me and said we were going to be friends.
00:17:15
David
That's perfect. Sometimes you just got to pick a friend and let him know, hey, I like you. I think it'd be great for both of us to be friends. and ah So then I went and did some collaborations. I went and spent some time at Mike's place. Mike came and spent some time at my place.
00:17:29
David
When I had my school when it was in Seattle, Mike came and taught at my school. Because my school in Seattle, I kind of looked at it as not just a place to teach, but as a place where people could learn to teach.
00:17:42
Denis Tyrell
Okay.
00:17:42
David
And it's a little different setup than what I have now. and I had a lot more group classes. and
00:17:49
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:17:49
David
I've kind of just gone...
00:17:49
Denis Tyrell
Your shop now is huge. I can't imagine ah it being bigger than, uh, than what you have now.
00:17:55
David
It wasn't. It was smaller, but it it was more suited with the parking and just, you know, I kind of had to run group classes just to pay for everything.
00:17:57
Denis Tyrell
Okay.
00:18:04
David
it was so expensive in Seattle.
00:18:07
Denis Tyrell
Oh, like you were in Seattle proper, like.
00:18:07
David
And I had, yeah, i was I was in Seattle proper. I was right underneath the West Seattle Bridge, ah and on the underneath the Alaska Way Viaduct and the West Seattle Bridge right there.
00:18:20
Denis Tyrell
Hmm.
00:18:20
David
Yeah. and for 15 years, I had a shop there, a blacksmithing shop. And then I took another space over and started knife making blacksmithing school.
00:18:33
David
And I did group classes. I had Jason Knight come out and teach classes. Adam Grosier and Haley came and taught classes. Mike Quisenberry came and taught classes. Mike Bonino came and taught classes.
00:18:44
David
Bill Burke came and taught classes. Probably some other people I'm not remembering, but yeah. it was Oh, St. Charleston came and taught repoussé.
00:18:56
Denis Tyrell
Oh, very cool.
00:18:56
David
Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:59
Denis Tyrell
So you've had a very ah storied career so far. um What?
00:19:04
David
Well, I tell you, it's it slowed down a bit now. You know, where I can relax a little bit more. It's more enjoyable being out here in the country.
00:19:14
Denis Tyrell
Oh, just because the pace is slower and...
00:19:17
David
Well, and my cost of living is basically like half of what it was in Seattle. Literally.
00:19:24
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, you have a beautiful location.
00:19:25
David
Because I had it. Thank you. Yeah, we we love it here. And it's working out really well. Ten years and still enjoying it. And I only teach one-on-one classes now.
00:19:39
David
I don't really, you know, got to slow down. Group classes are a lot of work. I could still do them, but I enjoy the one-on-one like with you.
00:19:50
David
One-on-one classes like hanging out and making a knife with a friend for the weekend or for the week, you know.
00:19:54
Denis Tyrell
I agree. Yeah.
00:19:56
David
That's what it's like.
00:19:56
Denis Tyrell
I've got a, I've got a guy coming for the next three days and we're doing mosaic Damascus and then chef knife.
00:20:05
David
Perfect. One-on-one.
00:20:06
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:20:07
David
It's perfect, right?
00:20:07
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:20:09
David
Yeah.
00:20:09
Denis Tyrell
Although, although my student, he's supposed to, he was supposed to be here Wednesday to Friday. And he emailed me today saying, Oh, he's on the plane and he'll be, ah he'll be ready to come tomorrow. I'm like tomorrow. Tomorrow.
00:20:21
Denis Tyrell
It's supposed to be Wednesday, but it's all good.
00:20:21
David
Yeah. ah
00:20:24
Denis Tyrell
It's all good.
00:20:25
David
yeah That does happen sometimes.
00:20:26
Denis Tyrell
We're ready. Yeah. Yeah. So um i got I got more questions. So a lot of my questions tonight are going to be on MasterSmith because as we spoke on the phone, my vision goal, whatever you want to call it, is to maybe test next year in 2027.
00:20:47
David
I think that's ah an admirable goal and it's a good thing you're starting now. Like don't wait. a lot of people don't give themselves the proper amount of time. So I'm proud of you for giving yourself that time because you've got like two or three months, four months, and then another year.
00:21:03
Denis Tyrell
Right.
00:21:03
David
And that's what you need really to do it properly.
00:21:03
Denis Tyrell
And yeah, and that's why i'm I'm going to Blade, Texas this year. I'm bringing a couple, I'll call them candidate knives. I think it's a very low probability they'll actually be in my set, but I need to get an assessment of where I'm at from a bunch of mastersmiths.
00:21:21
David
have
Knife Show Strategies
00:21:22
David
Have you glued them together already?
00:21:24
Denis Tyrell
No, in fact and fact, one of the things, most of my knives are actually going to be takedowns so that
00:21:31
David
Perfect. Perfect.
00:21:32
Denis Tyrell
If something goes wrong, I can redo the pommel.
00:21:32
David
Yeah, I like Yeah, no, that's good.
00:21:34
Denis Tyrell
i can you know i can change some things if I really need to.
00:21:41
David
That's a good thing because I tell people, look, make the knife and don't glue it together because maybe if if the person you show it to finds something, you can still fix it, you know?
00:21:52
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:21:52
David
And once you glue it up, a lot of times you can't, especially, you know what i mean, with the dagger. All your daggers should be taken down anyway, you know?
00:22:00
Denis Tyrell
Right. Yeah, absolutely.
00:22:01
David
It's kind of silly to glue up. Yeah. But all the other knives, if they're going to be fixed blades that are glued together, you don't have to glue them together right away.
00:22:03
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, well.
00:22:07
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:22:10
Denis Tyrell
So there's my dagger that, you know, that I don't know how well you can see it. And I know folks, everyone else can't see it. um I'm waiting on the ivory.
00:22:22
Denis Tyrell
If you have a hookup for ivory, let me know because this has been taking a while.
00:22:24
David
I like your quill. It's kind of got like fish hooks for the guard.
00:22:28
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, kind of. There'll be some some gold. This will be black. um This mild steel, so it'll be hot black.
00:22:35
David
Okay.
00:22:37
Denis Tyrell
And then there'll be some gold inlay across here, gold inlay on the blade here.
00:22:43
David
Nice.
00:22:43
Denis Tyrell
There's two Damascus spacers. The middle one is mild, and it it'll have a gold inlay on it. And then there's some gold inlay in the pommel and stuff.
00:22:51
David
right.
00:22:53
Denis Tyrell
But, yeah, I'm doing...
00:22:55
David
I like the shape of the blade.
00:22:58
Denis Tyrell
yeah it's different it's it's bigger than i imagined it was gonna be but um it uh yeah it's like over two inches wide right here so yeah it's it's a like you're you're not seeing in proportion it's a big deal yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
00:23:09
David
Wow.
00:23:11
David
Okay, and you're going to bring that, right, are you going to bring that one to Texas? Good, good, good. Because there will be some other Master Smiths there as well as well at least one judge will be there, it would be really good to show it to to him, show it to James Rotabaugh.
00:23:28
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. Yeah. He's on my list.
00:23:28
David
He'll be in Texas.
00:23:31
David
Yeah, he's he's a good one because he's he's very involved in the judging.
00:23:31
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
00:23:36
David
He'd be a good candidate to show it to.
00:23:38
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:23:40
David
yeah
00:23:41
Denis Tyrell
So what advice would you give someone who is approaching, you know, considering master?
00:23:48
David
Well, um first of all, i think I think that's a great ambition to be going for MasterSmith. I think that's wonderful.
00:23:59
David
My advice would be, one, make sure you give it like you're doing. Give it the proper amount of time. Make sure you feel like you're ready because I have a lot of friends that kind of rush into it before they're actually ready. Like they are more after the stamp and the recognition of master Smith because being master Smith is not going to like change your life in any big phenomenal way.
00:24:27
David
It just doesn't. It's a really great recognition. It does sometimes help with sales, but it's not, you know, you have to be doing it for the right reason, which is, do it for yourself, for your own personal achievement and satisfaction of achieving that goal.
00:24:48
David
Like it's a goal you set for yourself and then it's a goal that you obtain and it's it's a great marker and it's a great statement of where you're at in knife making. You know what I mean? I think it's a wonderful thing to have and seriously, it seems like a lot of the younger makers, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I just kind of feel like Not as many people are interested in the ABS ratings anymore.
00:25:15
David
Like, they just want to make knives.
00:25:16
Denis Tyrell
Really?
00:25:17
David
I don't know if you noticed that.
00:25:20
Denis Tyrell
I know some people, it seems to be a very polarizing thing. It's either like people want to be in the ABS, I think, or they're like violently opposed to it. And they just don't want to be in any kind of, I don't know.
00:25:37
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:25:37
David
Yeah, no, that's...
00:25:38
Denis Tyrell
it
00:25:41
David
yeah
00:25:41
Denis Tyrell
It seems like people have like an avert, either an aversion or they want to do it. And I don't know, like, cause was in the biggest journeyman class. I think there was like 52 people in that class.
00:25:55
Denis Tyrell
Um,
00:25:55
David
Oh, yeah. Well, knife making is more popular now than it's ever been. You know what I mean? And that is good. You're right. There has been more people testing for journeyman than ever.
00:26:06
David
But ever since... The show Forged in Fire came out. The ABS recruitment, the ABS signups have been through the roof.
00:26:17
Denis Tyrell
Sure.
00:26:18
David
So there is that that a lot of people are joining it. But that number of the people that are actually joining it and pursuing getting their MasterSmith, I think is a smaller number.
00:26:31
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, I think that's a fair fair assessment.
00:26:32
David
You know, yeah, I just don't know that
00:26:35
Denis Tyrell
You get a lot of...
00:26:39
David
I don't know. It seems like, well, if you want to make money at knife making, realistically, ah kitchen knives would be the route to go.
00:26:51
David
Making money at knives through the ABS system used to be good. Like, you see could sell hunters, you could sell buoys, you could sell daggers. There wasn't that many people making all that stuff. We had a
Market Changes in Knife Making
00:27:04
David
good base of collectors and It seems like over the last 10 years, our base of collectors has dwindled as the population of makers making that style of knife has increased.
00:27:17
David
So yes, they still sell, but the, gosh, the the market is sort of saturated with that style of knife and there's not enough buyers for the ABS style knives.
00:27:32
David
This is a fact. This isn't, this is something I've noticed over the years. Now, kitchen knives, Everybody in America has got a kitchen.
00:27:40
David
A lot of people are willing to spend money for a nice knife for their kitchen. Kitchen knives can go in all price ranges from, ah you know, a couple hundred dollars to $10,000.
00:27:54
David
You know, that the knives can span a huge range of prices, which is great, especially if you're doing a knife show. You can make some more affordable stuff. You can make some more high-end stuff. You can span a price range.
00:28:05
David
which really helps at any fair or place where you're trying to sell knives, you need to have a diverse range of prices.
00:28:14
Denis Tyrell
Absolutely.
00:28:15
David
Yeah.
00:28:15
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:28:16
David
Yeah. And Kitchen Knives allows you to do that.
00:28:19
Denis Tyrell
I'm going to pause here and I'm going to read out one of our sponsors. So if you guys are looking for knife making material, go check out Maritime Knife Supply. They got it all. They got abrasive steel.
00:28:33
Denis Tyrell
equipment, tooling, you name it, go check them out.
00:28:36
David
Thank
00:28:37
Denis Tyrell
Lawrence, if he doesn't have it, he'll get it. So go talk to Lawrence Lake over at Maritime Knife Supply and tell him the boys at Triple T sent you. um So one of the one of the things that I'm known for, and this is a question I've been playing with, is in relation to my master set, is what is the opinion, and I won't say what is the opinion of the ABS, because I don't know, you carried the whole ABS, but what is your opinion on putting a knife in a master set that is laminated with non-ferrous materials, like copper or gold, silver, in the blade I'm talking about?
00:29:25
David
I don't I don't have a problem with that at all personally I mean and and I know you're known for doing a lot of that what they call it go my is that what it's called kumai kumai okay kumai yeah um
00:29:34
Denis Tyrell
Kumai. Kumai.
00:29:37
Denis Tyrell
cuai
00:29:41
David
Laminated material is laminated material. So Damascus is a laminated material and it's a mandatory to do your Damascus out of your dagger out of Damascus. You know, that's a requirement within the set.
00:29:54
David
So to have laminated non-ferrous materials, I think is totally acceptable if it's done properly. um Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't see a problem with that at all. Nor do I think any judge would because we're not really at the Master Smith level.
00:30:11
David
We're not really so much judging the steels that you use. You know, like as a journeyman, you can't use Damascus. And there's a reason for that. Because they want to see that you can clean up carbon steel, which is way harder to make look nice than Damascus.
00:30:27
David
They want to be, that it shows everything. They want to see nice finishes. And there's the reason that's the reason for that.
00:30:35
Denis Tyrell
Sure.
00:30:35
David
You know.
00:30:35
Denis Tyrell
Yep.
00:30:36
David
um And then ah I guess.
00:30:40
Denis Tyrell
so So the reason I ask is I've heard grumblings, whatever, from some masters that that do not like the laminated, like the copper materials and really have poo-pooed it and and, you know, just...
00:30:58
Denis Tyrell
There is a risk. you You run against someone who does not like these materials, who's judging your knives, and, you know, maybe...
00:30:59
David
Oh
00:31:07
David
boy. See, i don't think that if I would ask, do I would just ask, are they allowed? Because like, for instance, there's no stainless allowed.
00:31:19
David
Like you can't submit a stainless steel knife.
00:31:22
Denis Tyrell
Okay.
00:31:23
David
I don't know if you know that.
00:31:24
Denis Tyrell
No, I didn't know that.
00:31:24
David
Like, Yeah, no, you cannot submit a stainless steel knife. In fact, for a long time, you were not able to put your ABS mark on a stainless knife.
00:31:37
Denis Tyrell
Really?
00:31:38
David
Really? Now, I don't know if that's changed, but I do know for a fact that that was the case because I know some people that had a rift with the ABS over marking stainless steel folders with their MS mark.
00:31:55
Denis Tyrell
Wow.
00:31:55
David
Yes.
00:31:55
Denis Tyrell
Oh, that's interesting.
00:31:56
David
Yeah.
00:31:56
Denis Tyrell
I've never heard that.
00:31:58
David
Yeah, no. Yeah, you look into that. um You're not supposed to put your stamp. You know, they're supposed to be carbon steel knives. That's the ABS's mission is the, you know, to keep the legacy and the life of the carbon steel knife alive. You know, the legacy and the, you know, just the knowledge, the creation of it.
00:32:20
David
I mean, that's our goal. That's our mission statement to teach carbon steel knife making. To make carbon steel knives. Yeah.
00:32:28
Denis Tyrell
I wonder why that distinction, because it's a good thing that you told me that. Not that I was going to do it, but I have made stainless Damascus. And I've contemplated maybe using stainless Damascus as one of my sets, but obviously I'm not going to do it now.
00:32:44
Denis Tyrell
But... um
00:32:45
David
I would definitely look into that. Now, the rules change all the time. I mean, like everything's changing fast. That's why it's important to read the rules. This, I do know for a fact, was the case at one point.
00:32:56
David
You were not allowed to mark a stainless steel knife with your ABS stamp.
00:33:01
Denis Tyrell
Wow.
00:33:02
David
Whether journeyman or master smith, it was not allowed.
00:33:04
Denis Tyrell
Wow.
00:33:07
David
Yeah.
00:33:07
Denis Tyrell
Well, this is a great segue for another one of our sponsors. We're going to mention Baker Forge and Tool.
00:33:13
David
All right.
00:33:14
Denis Tyrell
Premium makers of laminated steels, whether it's copper, bronze, i you name it, they make it. um And now they make stainless Damascus at really good prices. and now they're doing their, their core line, which is, um, and I'm not as prepared as I should be for that read, but, um, yes, their core line, which is their, their Cushim Wavy, the Chevron, um, and the raindrop and, uh, sorry, the Damcore raindrop and the Damcore Chevron. So these are going to be their core line that are always available.
00:33:54
Denis Tyrell
Um, so I know you guys have been trying to get a drop You know, you're a day late on the drops, they're gone. So these are going to be ones that they're going to try to have in stock all the time. So definitely go check them out while you're there. Get yourself some Gator Piss, which is their premium etchant in all the flavors that they have, the regular, the heavy, and now the Gator Piss Max for stainless.
00:34:18
Denis Tyrell
and get yourself some Gator Skin to protect those knives, which is their nano ceramic coating. Use the discount code TTT10 for 10% off. So go get yourself some. And again, tell Coby said hi. I'll be seeing that man in Blade, Texas for sure. I'm sure we'll have a few beers. So go check out be Baker Forge and Tool.
00:34:44
Denis Tyrell
um Well, that that's interesting. i'm I'm definitely going to talk to some people about the non-ferrous laminates because I would love to have one of those in my set because that is something I'm known to do.
Debate on Non-Ferrous Materials
00:34:58
Denis Tyrell
So that's got me thinking.
00:35:00
David
Yeah, let me know what they say because I'd like to know about that. Yeah, like I said, everything changes. And, you know, there are certain judges that have, you know, like everybody always says, don't ever put a stag handle in your journeyman set.
00:35:16
David
And there was judges that would, like, if they saw a stag handle, they wouldn't even look at the set. They'd just tell you, you know.
00:35:22
Denis Tyrell
Really?
00:35:22
David
So that's, um I do know people that have passed with a with a stag handle. Kyle Royer had a stag handle in his journeyman set.
00:35:34
Denis Tyrell
Really?
00:35:35
David
Yeah. Almost certain, yes. ah But it was like the most symmetrical piece of stag on the planet. You know, I mean, it's so beautiful.
00:35:43
Denis Tyrell
I'm surprised because he doesn't use that much natural material and everything's very
00:35:47
David
No.
00:35:48
Denis Tyrell
finished and symmetrical on his navs.
00:35:48
David
Yeah.
00:35:50
Denis Tyrell
I'm surprised to hear he even used a stack.
00:35:54
David
Yeah. I remember we were talking about that. I'm sure it was his I don't think it was his Master Smith set, but one of his sets had a piece of stag in it.
00:36:03
Denis Tyrell
Well, I've definitely seen them in in JS sets.
00:36:03
David
So I think it was his journeyman set.
00:36:07
Denis Tyrell
um
00:36:07
David
Right. And supposedly there's some judges.
00:36:09
Denis Tyrell
So
00:36:10
David
i don't know if he's still judging, but there was a guy that would just fail you instantly if you saw a piece of stag. And he would tell you, don't put stag in your journeyman set because you can't make it symmetrical.
00:36:22
David
You can't make it even. You know, they want to see woodwork.
00:36:24
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, that that is true. They're looking for fit and finish and symmetry and all that stuff.
00:36:29
David
right yeah things like that and symmetry and things like that so yeah i mean i think one should be okay though
00:36:31
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:36:34
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:36:37
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. I mean, it shows diversity. you know, it's cool when you make the butt cap, like, fit all the little knurls in the stag and stuff like that.
00:36:47
David
yeah that's tricky all right
00:36:47
Denis Tyrell
so amazing Very cool. So... so what What are you, what's your favorite knife to make? What what what are your, what I mean, I know you do a lot of buoys and chefs, but like, what do you like making the most?
00:37:03
David
My favorite knife to make is the Bowie knife. I mean, that has been my passion.
00:37:05
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:37:08
David
i don't make as many as I used to. i still sell them, you know. um im making I'm bringing one for Texas. I brought one to Texas last year.
00:37:19
David
i In fact, I won Best Bowie at Texas last year.
00:37:21
Denis Tyrell
Yes, I remember.
00:37:22
David
and um I don't know that I'll win it again this year, but I'm definitely going to enter a knife. You know, I'm working on something that I think is really cool. I've got a clam shell.
00:37:34
David
kind of, not really Persian-ist, but it's sort of like a, it's got some curves to the blade, stag handle, but it's i'm kind of like a half D guard, you know, like an open guard, how my long ones come around.
00:37:51
David
Clams on both ends, and I'm thinking about splitting it and curling a ring up. ah And I got to that point and stopped because I needed to really make sure I wanted to do it because you could mess it up doing it.
00:38:04
David
And that's a big commitment to, you know, it takes it like making the split ring guard. Just the guard takes me about three days to make the guard.
00:38:16
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:38:17
David
Yeah. Yeah. It's all Damascus and that's all right. You know, it's right there. it could be beautiful just as it is, but it's like, should I push that next level and curl that ring out of there and really make it special? And yeah, it's kind of like a roll of the dice.
00:38:34
David
It be risky. Yeah.
00:38:36
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, you can always do another guard, you know, so it's not like.
00:38:37
David
Yeah. Yeah, and I always peel off another chunk of Damascus and spend another three days. Why not? but I don't know. I'm thinking about it. Sometimes when I find myself getting in a hurry or racing to the finish line of a knife, I'll stop and put it in a drawer and forget about it and go on to something else.
00:38:59
Denis Tyrell
That's good advice.
00:39:01
David
Yeah. Yeah, because every time I've ever messed up a knife or made a mistake, it was when I was rushing to the finish line. And the other thing that happens is any time I rush to the finish line of a knife, when I get there and I get it done and I put it all together, i'm like, hmm, just not not happy with it.
00:39:19
Denis Tyrell
Not happy.
00:39:22
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:39:22
David
No, you really got to take the time and do those things that you know take time, that you know are going to make it special, you know. and And not be afraid to that it's going to take too long. you know If you're worried about how long your knives take to make, you probably shouldn't be making knives.
00:39:41
Denis Tyrell
Right. Absolutely. It has to be a labor of love and not something than you do on the block.
00:39:45
David
It has to be, man. Yeah. People ask me, how long did that take to make? I'm like, I don't know. Because I don't. Especially when it's a big one. I don't keep track of that.
00:39:58
David
yeah
00:39:59
Denis Tyrell
People have asked me when I do videos, like how long did that actually take?
00:39:59
David
i just don't.
00:40:02
Denis Tyrell
And I've looked into one time getting a little, almost like a chess stop clock, just so I could do it for a video.
00:40:10
David
Oh, yeah.
00:40:11
Denis Tyrell
I'm like, okay, I'm working on the knife, hit the hit the thing, the timer would start.
00:40:14
David
yeah oh That would that be a good idea.
00:40:17
Denis Tyrell
And then when I stopped,
00:40:17
David
Yeah, you probably never make another knife again.
00:40:20
Denis Tyrell
yeah yeah, I'm making a buck 50 an hour.
00:40:22
David
Yeah, it's got to be easier way to make money.
00:40:25
Denis Tyrell
ah But I think that would be good for the video because then I could show the time in the bottom of the corner of the video of like, okay, we're at hour number 50 or something.
00:40:25
David
Yeah. ah
00:40:29
David
Yeah. Uh-huh. No, that would be cool.
00:40:37
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:40:37
David
Yeah, that would be.
00:40:38
Denis Tyrell
So I got to look into that. I just, I couldn't find one that went high enough. Like most of them capped out at like 12 hours or something like that. I'm like, well, that's not going to 99 hours or whatever it was.
00:40:47
David
Oh, yeah.
00:40:49
Denis Tyrell
It just wasn't going be enough time for some of the big builds.
00:40:51
David
Sure.
00:40:53
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:40:53
David
Yeah, I remember the old, did you ever punch a clock, you know with when you work for a job, where you got there in the morning, you had your time card, and you punched in?
00:40:54
Denis Tyrell
but
00:41:02
Denis Tyrell
um don't i mean i've seen them i think i was at a place that had one but i think it was like you out of commission or whatever yeah yeah yeah sure
00:41:09
David
Defunct already. Yeah, I punched the clock for a long time. That's where the term punched the clock comes from. you You showed up in the morning, you had your time card, you pulled it out of its slot, punched in, ching, ching, you know, yeah.
00:41:22
David
At the end of the day, punched out. And in the week, they take your card and add the hours up and pay yeah based on your punch in and punch out.
00:41:24
Denis Tyrell
yeah yeah
00:41:31
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, yeah that that would just be depressing as a knife maker.
00:41:32
David
Yeah.
00:41:35
David
Oh, you said, you you got that right. But millions of Americans are still doing it, you know.
00:41:41
Denis Tyrell
Right? Yeah.
00:41:41
David
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:42
Denis Tyrell
Oh, the happiest day I've had in a long time was a year and a half ago.
00:41:44
David
Yep.
00:41:46
Denis Tyrell
It's going on two years now when I retired and now I can do this.
00:41:51
David
Yeah, you quit punching the clock.
00:41:53
Denis Tyrell
Quit punching the clock. Yeah.
00:41:55
David
Yeah.
00:41:55
Denis Tyrell
um
00:41:56
David
Yeah.
00:41:56
Denis Tyrell
But I'm with you on the Bowie knife.
00:41:57
David
So.
00:41:58
Denis Tyrell
that's That is one of my favorites to make. It's kind of a toss up between the Bowie and um the dagger.
00:42:07
David
Yeah. and I love making a dagger too.
00:42:07
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:42:09
David
You know. ah But I think. For me right now to to stay interested in it, I just have to be diverse and I just kind of like make what comes to my, you know, what I feel like making, you know.
00:42:23
Denis Tyrell
Sure.
00:42:24
David
Yeah, I can just make, you know, some days I want to make a kitchen knife. Sometimes I'll make some Damascus and I'll look it and go, what should i make out of that, you know? lot of times a knife is just a canvas for your Damascus, in which case I might make a big old cleaver and really open it up and show it off.
00:42:38
Denis Tyrell
Absolutely.
00:42:42
David
You know, our big old kitchen knife.
00:42:42
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:42:44
David
Our kitchen knife is a great canvas to showcase your pattern.
00:42:49
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, a nice big flat wide blade.
00:42:49
David
You know. Exactly. Yeah.
00:42:52
Denis Tyrell
yeah for sure.
00:42:54
Denis Tyrell
um And now with so Mike Vagnino, took the the folder class with him going on a year ago.
00:42:54
David
Yeah.
00:43:02
David
Uh-huh.
00:43:03
Denis Tyrell
So now the folders are in the repertoire now. So when have a small little off cut of Damascus, then then it's a then it's a folder.
00:43:07
David
Awesome.
00:43:09
David
Can make something. Yeah.
00:43:11
Denis Tyrell
so
00:43:12
David
Yeah, for sure.
00:43:12
Denis Tyrell
And I've i been really having fun with folders lately, and it's good to throw those in the mix every yeah three or four
00:43:19
David
Yeah, I wish I could, but you know, I like making folders and I know how to make folders. I just have a hard time setting aside time to do it, you know.
00:43:31
David
And ah I've played with it a little bit. I play with it it on and off. And I think for me, folders to get good at it it would take a commitment. Like to really say, I'm going to take this time and just make folders, you know.
00:43:45
David
Because I was going down the rabbit hole for a little while with my little mountain man folders where I was cutting to one piece of stag, you know. And that's that's time consuming.
00:43:54
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, I've seen those those.
00:43:54
David
And ah I was, yeah
00:43:56
Denis Tyrell
Those do look very time consuming and fiddly.
00:43:58
David
they are, they are. Like i said, I don't know how a long one of takes, but it's a while.
00:44:04
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:44:04
David
And they're all a little different.
00:44:07
Denis Tyrell
As like and the engineering background in me, like the software engineering, like I like precision, like I love, I love using the mill. um So any kind of like precision like that kind of interests me from time to time. So it's fun to,
00:44:23
Denis Tyrell
to do that kind of project once in a while and get away from like the big knives.
00:44:29
David
yeah So you like to diversify as well?
00:44:30
Denis Tyrell
Um, yeah, for sure.
00:44:32
David
like Yeah.
00:44:33
Denis Tyrell
I mean, I, I get bored easily.
00:44:34
David
yeah.
00:44:36
Denis Tyrell
Like the biggest number of number I've ever done in a batch is six. And I wanted to shoot myself. at ah Like I, I am not built for batch work. I just don't have the attention span.
00:44:48
David
Yeah, I had an opportunity once to get a gig making knives for a store a men's store clothing store here in Seattle. It would have been a great gig.
00:45:00
David
But I turned it down. Because I didn't want to spend all my time grinding the same blades and putting the same handles on you know it's just different pieces of wood on the same knife shape.
00:45:13
Denis Tyrell
yeah yeah you're gonna feel like a factory worker after a little while
00:45:14
David
It just didn't sound like fun to me. in the
00:45:20
David
Yeah, you really would. And I just think it would suck all the joy out of knife making for me.
00:45:25
Denis Tyrell
yeah and not to poo-poo that because i know that some guys love that some guys they
00:45:26
David
You know?
00:45:29
David
Oh, yeah. No, a lot of people. at Well, yeah.
00:45:33
Denis Tyrell
Some guys like the optimization of a process. Like I know Ryan Coakley from Hustle and Guiding Podcast.
00:45:38
David
Mm-hmm.
00:45:40
Denis Tyrell
Like that's his thing. My friend Brent from Bald Man Knife too. Like those guys get off on how do i how do i how do I simplify this part of the process to make my, to to eke out an extra three hours, which is now so many more knives a month than like, they love that stuff.
00:45:52
David
Sure.
00:46:00
Denis Tyrell
So you gotta to be built for it.
00:46:00
David
Yeah. And yeah, you got to be
Pitfalls of Popular Designs
00:46:04
David
built for it. You got to have the mindset and want to do it um And it might not be for them, but one of the things I've noticed just, mean, I know a lot of different knife makers and a lot of times you end up being forced into a certain process or a certain knife ends up generating money for you and you end up following that because we all need money.
00:46:28
David
We're all trying to make a living at this, right? And a lot of times one knife will start hitting. Maybe it's a kitchen knife. Maybe it's, you know, whatever it is, that latest thing that all of a sudden you posted it and everybody's like going crazy gaga over it.
00:46:42
Denis Tyrell
yeah
00:46:43
David
And so now you're making those and making those. Next thing you know, that's all you're making, you know? It's like a trap almost.
00:46:50
Denis Tyrell
yeah no i i have the i have the trap myself my most popular video is a katana and um i've made four of them now if i wanted to make a katana like every two months
00:46:50
David
And it's a good trap because you're making money.
00:47:07
Denis Tyrell
I would sell them right away. i just, I'm done with Katanas. Like I'll make one.
00:47:12
David
So you know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah.
00:47:14
Denis Tyrell
I know. And that's what people, I probably get asked for that for a Katana. I mean, most of them are tire kickers, but I probably get asked for one once every two weeks for someone to make and they're expensive and they take forever.
00:47:24
David
Right. Yeah.
00:47:29
David
Right. No, that's ah it's a hard build. But yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. See, if you weren't where you're at financially in your life, let me tell you right now, you'd be making katanas.
00:47:39
Denis Tyrell
Probably would.
00:47:41
David
You would be. And that's that's the trap sometimes.
00:47:45
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:47:45
David
You know, you hit that one thing and everybody wants it. Everybody loves it. Oh, my goodness. and You know. Fortunately, you're in a spot where you can go, now I'm done with katanas for a while and do something that you enjoy because,
00:47:54
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, exactly.
00:47:57
David
yeah
00:47:58
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. Well, that's another good segue for something that everybody wants right now. I'm going to go into grip tech composites. That's grip X from from grip tech.
00:48:09
Denis Tyrell
And grip X is a beautiful material, it is a really grippy handle material comes in all kinds of great colors and they're doing.
00:48:20
Denis Tyrell
Matt is doing the color of the week. And this week, it's one of my favorites. It is the copper color because you guys know I love copper. It's the copper color. So go check out Grip X and you can go to IG on Grip Tech Official or go to griptech.com. They also have the limitless version if you want to go to a higher finish. And they also have the color.
00:48:47
Denis Tyrell
ah for some really cool effects. So go check them out. Use the discount code TTT10 and go get yourself some grip tech. It's really cool. I have a knife on my on my bench downstairs that is ready to be finished.
00:49:02
Denis Tyrell
And Dave, if you're not familiar with this stuff, it's it's great for anything that's going to get wet. um And you can sand this stuff to 220 and actually sandblast it and it's even grippier.
00:49:14
Denis Tyrell
It's really cool stuff.
00:49:15
David
Wow, I'll have to go check it out. Is it a rubber substance or like a G10?
00:49:19
Denis Tyrell
It's, it's, I don't even know how to describe it. It's some kind of, I mean, it's proprietary, so I can't, I don't know what it is, but it is rubberish.
00:49:29
David
Yeah, it's okay.
00:49:30
Denis Tyrell
But what it is, it's got like, it's like a bit softer than G10, but it's got little tiny beads of rubber encased inside of it.
00:49:40
David
Ah.
00:49:41
Denis Tyrell
So like, if you were using it on an animal, like, like say you were caping a deer or something like that,
00:49:42
David
Wow.
00:49:48
David
And it got bloody, you wouldn't lose your grip.
00:49:50
Denis Tyrell
You wouldn't need lose your grip.
00:49:51
David
Yeah.
00:49:51
Denis Tyrell
It's great for chef knives. And it just looks beautiful. I've been using it a lot on segmented handles.
00:49:56
David
Chef Knife would be good good use for it. Yeah.
00:49:59
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, it's it's really good stuff.
00:49:59
David
I'll check it out. All right.
00:50:03
Denis Tyrell
and And yeah, it can look really cool.
00:50:03
David
Grip Tech.
00:50:06
Denis Tyrell
um
00:50:06
David
All right.
00:50:07
Denis Tyrell
So we talked about um builds. Kivolowitz- build maybe there isn't one you've been doing this long enough, but is there a build you haven't done like a type of knife that you haven't done that you still want to do.
00:50:23
David
Well, yes. that I really... And I actually might have an opportunity coming
Viking Sword and Current Projects
00:50:29
David
up. But I have never really done like a full-blown Viking sword.
00:50:34
Denis Tyrell
Kivolowitz-
00:50:34
David
I've done a smaller version of one once. Oh, I did make a Viking sword out of a mono steel. I took ah Peter Johnson's class up in Zach Jonas' place for a week.
00:50:47
Denis Tyrell
Mm-hmm.
00:50:47
David
That was really fun. Highly recommend if you can get a class with Peter Johnson but at the... Just wonderful. I had a great time. They took really good care of me.
00:50:58
David
But I really would love to do an all-damascus Viking sword. Like, commit to it, make the steel, make a big blade. It seems like a really cool project.
00:51:09
David
And I'd also like to do a Japanese sword. know As far as knives goes, I've pretty much covered the gamut on you know most knives. um
00:51:20
Denis Tyrell
I've done the Damascus Viking sword.
00:51:20
David
I made a dirk.
00:51:23
Denis Tyrell
I actually used Neil Vanderburg's pattern, his knots and crosses pattern on ah on a Viking sword.
00:51:30
David
Oh, really?
00:51:32
Denis Tyrell
It came out really nice. That that is a beautiful pattern.
00:51:34
David
Cool. I think I saw a picture of you holding that thing.
00:51:38
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, am I in a Viking outfit? Because I did it for the video.
00:51:40
David
Yes, exactly.
00:51:41
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, yeah Jared got a good laugh out that one.
00:51:42
David
Yeah, you look great, too, by the way. Yeah.
00:51:47
Denis Tyrell
He took all the pictures.
00:51:48
David
Yeah. That would be the one thing. Like right now, i'm a i mean I'm sure you've seen some of my pirate swords.
00:51:55
Denis Tyrell
Yep. Yep.
00:51:56
David
Yeah, in fact, one was not.
00:51:56
Denis Tyrell
You had one of those when I was there.
00:51:58
David
Oh, yeah. Yeah, um so I am working on a pirate sword right now, which is pretty cool. It's got seven pirate faces going down the length of the blade with the ocean underneath them.
00:52:12
David
So it's got like an edge on it. Anyway, it's pretty cool. I'm pretty excited about it. And once again, not not rushing it.
00:52:21
Denis Tyrell
Right.
00:52:21
David
I might have it for Blade Show Atlanta.
00:52:22
Denis Tyrell
Have fun with it.
00:52:23
David
It will not be in Texas.
00:52:25
Denis Tyrell
Nice.
00:52:26
David
Yeah.
00:52:26
Denis Tyrell
My son, Parker, i don't remember if you met Parker at in June.
00:52:33
David
think so. was he yet Was he at the last Blade Show?
00:52:33
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, well, he won't be. Yeah, he was the one in June. But he wants me to make him a U.S.
00:52:39
David
Okay, yeah.
00:52:43
Denis Tyrell
Navy enlisted sword because he's he's now U.A. Right now, he's in boot camp for the Navy.
00:52:51
David
Ah.
00:52:52
Denis Tyrell
So he will be graduating... next week.
00:52:57
David
So would that be like a cutlass?
00:52:57
Denis Tyrell
So it is a cut list. That's why when you said pirates are done like, Oh, he wants me to make a cut list.
00:53:01
David
Yeah.
00:53:04
David
yeah Yeah, mine is a little more different blade shape.
00:53:05
Denis Tyrell
But yeah,
00:53:09
David
that You know mine, the big fanned out one.
00:53:09
Denis Tyrell
yeah. Yeah.
00:53:15
David
There's a name for it, but I can't think of it right now.
00:53:18
Denis Tyrell
It's kind of a cut list and it's a small cut list.
00:53:22
David
I think there's a different name for that shape of blade. I think of a cutlass as more like a long boarding cutlass. you know It's a longer, skinnier blade. And the naval sword is that.
00:53:34
David
and And the one I make is, you know, it fans out almost like Sinbad the Sailor, you know, from the Pai Pai cartoon, that great big. That's kind of my style of pirate sword.
00:53:46
Denis Tyrell
Very cool.
00:53:47
David
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:47
Denis Tyrell
But not for Texas.
00:53:50
David
Not for Texas, nope, nope.
00:53:54
Denis Tyrell
I've got that that dagger, the one that I showed you. This one um which is a feather.
00:54:02
David
That one's already done, Etched?
00:54:04
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, this one's done. Done.
00:54:07
David
All right.
00:54:07
Denis Tyrell
um might... I might refinish the blade. I'm not totally happy with, I don't know. I might. um Yeah. So this one will be for kind of review there.
00:54:19
Denis Tyrell
Molar handle.
00:54:20
David
Uh-huh. Now, is that...
00:54:21
Denis Tyrell
Take down.
00:54:22
David
ah What's that handle made out of?
00:54:24
Denis Tyrell
Molar. Mammoth molar.
00:54:26
David
That's what I thought, yeah. Cool.
00:54:28
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:54:28
David
Yeah.
00:54:28
Denis Tyrell
It was a pain in the butt. ah This took me three days to do the the handle for this thing.
00:54:30
David
Yeah.
00:54:34
David
Wow.
00:54:35
Denis Tyrell
No, not my favorite material. It was a beast.
00:54:39
David
Yeah, but it looks cool.
00:54:40
Denis Tyrell
Thank you. I want you to get your get your spectacles on and look at it in Texas and give it to once over.
00:54:47
David
I will. I'll be looking forward to seeing what you bring.
00:54:50
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:54:50
David
Yeah, I recently, i just finished this. Right here, maybe you can see this.
00:54:55
Denis Tyrell
Oh, a push dagger.
00:54:57
David
Yeah, well, I showed before I started it, but this is a thousand-year-old um artifact.
00:55:08
David
It's fire starter ice axe and it is a trip it's a tricky piece of material to turn into a push dagger but that's what I did.
00:55:16
Denis Tyrell
So that's the handle. Yeah.
00:55:18
David
yeah it's wild looking, isn't it? i mean It's just kind of gnarly.
00:55:20
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. It's hard to see just um in the little video here, but you're bringing that to Texas.
00:55:25
David
sir um I might be. I might be. I have one collector that's been asking me for a push dagger so I sent him a video of it today. I figured i I owed it to him to at least show it to him, but I don't think that's what he's looking for, in which case it will definitely be in Texas.
00:55:42
David
But you never know. he might He might want it just for the fact that there's never going to be another one quite like that because there's no other artifact quite like that. So I like the challenge of trying to make a knife out of a gnarly artifact.
00:55:50
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
00:55:56
David
You know, that one was only suited. it wasn't big enough for a knife handle. it only suited for a push dagger so
00:56:05
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
00:56:05
David
Let's see. Yeah.
00:56:07
Denis Tyrell
We're going to pay a few more.
00:56:07
David
And I made a cute little, you know, I just, I made a little bronze stand that holds it, that sets it in.
00:56:09
Denis Tyrell
Sorry, go ahead.
00:56:15
David
So it's got its own little stand.
00:56:17
Denis Tyrell
Very cool.
00:56:19
David
Yeah.
00:56:20
Denis Tyrell
We're going to pay a few more bills here. Want to talk about Two Bastards, Texas Smithian Supplies. If you guys are looking for a premium blacksmithing hammer, bladesmithing hammer, go check out Frank and Nita over at Two Bastards.
00:56:36
Denis Tyrell
They make some awesome hammers. Frank will be at, well, I'm assuming, I don't know for sure. I'm assuming since he's from Texas, he's going to be at Blade Texas. He's usually always there. do you know Frank?
00:56:47
Denis Tyrell
Dave? No. um makes awesome hammers. the The fat peen, the curvy peen. Check out the the hammers from Frank because as Jared always says, ain't it grand to have a fat peen in your hand.
00:56:47
David
No, I don't.
00:57:05
David
All right.
00:57:05
Denis Tyrell
um And we want you guys to check out the folks at Pelican Paste. Travis over at pelicanpaste.com. If you need hard wax, soft wax, Pelican oil, hand salve, soap, or even the butter knot seasoning for your cast iron pans, go check all those out. I put that stuff on all of my handles and even the blades for sure. Go check that out. Use the discount code TTT10 at checkout. And yeah, go give them some love.
00:57:40
Denis Tyrell
um I got two more. We're going to three more. um I'll cover Ameribraid. I'm a huge fan of Ameribraid. My favorite grinder for sure. i have the Ameribraid Fastback 2x72. especially love the drop-away platen.
00:57:58
Denis Tyrell
Love that thing. The guys at Ameribraid will hook you up. We finally, thank you, Kevin, have discount codes for Ameribraid. Use TTT10 for 10% off accessories.
00:58:12
Denis Tyrell
And the first time they've ever done this, we have a discount code on their machines. So use TTT for a discount code on their machines.
00:58:23
Denis Tyrell
I think it ends up at 5%, but they...
00:58:24
David
Thank you.
00:58:25
Denis Tyrell
the They made it so they can change it, I think. So it's just TTT, the discount code on their machines. While you're there, check out the HyperDisk. That is their changeable um rotating machine that can handle a disk. It can handle a buffer. There's all kinds of other tools you can use on that thing. So go check out the HyperDisk and everything else at Ameribraid.com.
00:58:52
Denis Tyrell
All right. We got a couple other bills to pay, but I want to do maker spotlight. So something we do every week just to highlight a maker in the community.
00:59:03
Denis Tyrell
So this week I have, I'm going to put this link in the chat here so you can open it up, Dave. But I've got Chad underscore Nell underscore knives.
00:59:18
Denis Tyrell
um Now that I'm into folders, I've been
00:59:18
David
All right.
00:59:22
Denis Tyrell
obviously folders catch my eye. And, uh, these are just some beautiful folders. Um, go check them out. He's got, uh, uh, almost 12,000 followers. Uh, just some really beautiful work.
00:59:36
Denis Tyrell
Um, I love that Damascus on the first three on, uh, on his, on his profile. I see some engraving work. Um, Just some really, really beautiful folders.
00:59:50
Denis Tyrell
There's one that's, I don't know, 12 rows down. In the middle, it's got a white handle. That one is beautiful. They're all beautiful, but that one really, really like.
01:00:01
Denis Tyrell
So go check out Chad now and tell him the boys at Triple T sent you and give him a follow.
01:00:10
David
I'll go check them out right after we're done.
01:00:13
Denis Tyrell
Right, so Dave, who do you got?
01:00:16
David
Well, I actually am going to highlight the young man that works for me. His name is Devin Roderick, and his Instagram is Patriotic Forge.
01:00:27
Denis Tyrell
That's patriotic.forge.2.0. I had to look it up.
01:00:32
David
Yeah, 2.0.
01:00:33
Denis Tyrell
Yes.
01:00:34
David
Patriotic Forge 2.0. Yeah, and Devin Roderick. And he has really picked it up in the last two or three years. though He's been making knives for a long time, started when he was a young kid. And that has just kept getting better and better. and
01:00:53
David
he He always amazes me. And he spends all of his extra money on tools. And he keeps getting better and better tools. And he's currently making knives in his garage. And doing a great ah great job with it.
01:01:06
David
And he comes out and works for me. And learns from me knife making. And helps me make my Damascus. And grinds billets. And does whatever other jobs I might need done. and it's been a pleasure having him work with me.
01:01:18
David
And it's also just been a pleasure to watch him grow as a knife maker. And he's making some beautiful kitchen knives. Well, you went and saw his stuff, right?
01:01:27
Denis Tyrell
Oh, yeah, I'm looking at it now.
01:01:29
David
Yeah, some beautiful stuff. And he just keeps getting better. And he's he's a great kid. yeah I think he's 21 now. And he's been working for me for about three years.
01:01:39
David
And it's just been awesome.
01:01:41
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, I'm seeing i'm seeing one um on his on his profile that's like in the set third row.
01:01:42
David
So that's my highlight.
01:01:50
Denis Tyrell
And he's in a cowboy hat and he's got like some paper mustache and a little... a little goatee on the chin. Is he supposed to be imitating you? Okay.
01:02:00
David
Oh, yeah. Well, that's him. That's him giving me the business for my ah couple years back when I had my knife show. I ran a batch of about, I think I made about 50 taco forks.
01:02:13
David
And I made a video of me using my taco fork, which it's a great little tool to flip taco shells because I love tacos.
01:02:13
Denis Tyrell
Okay.
01:02:20
Denis Tyrell
Okay.
01:02:21
David
And so he did a little kind of raspy video ah making fun of me doing taco shells. And I thought it was wonderful.
01:02:30
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, I tried to play it and it won't, it won't play on Instagram right now for some reason.
01:02:30
David
Really, really great. Won't play? ah Yeah, that's funny.
01:02:34
Denis Tyrell
So I figured it looks like you.
01:02:36
David
guy
01:02:36
Denis Tyrell
So he, he nailed it.
01:02:38
David
He definitely is dressed up like me. he's He's funny. That's a great one to look at. Yeah.
01:02:44
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:02:44
David
Just a great kid, man.
01:02:46
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:02:46
David
and I feel lucky to have him.
01:02:46
Denis Tyrell
That's good. And I love, i love promoting the young makers. We've had a bunch, um just a bunch of maker spotlights on,
01:02:51
David
Yeah.
01:02:56
Denis Tyrell
like 15 year olds. And I wish I started when I was, you know, 15 or 16 and some of the talent that some of these, uh, these younger folks have is crazy.
01:03:05
David
Me too. Yeah, there's a bunch of just really gifted young men coming up. And, you know, so many of them, you couldn't highlight them all. And I thought, well, I'm just going to highlight Devin because he he deserves it. and You know, you look and see, he doesn't have a lot of followers.
01:03:21
Denis Tyrell
No, um, yeah, 500, you know, that's not, yeah.
01:03:22
David
Yeah. 500? he's not even cracked 1,000 yet. So, yeah, he could certainly.
01:03:28
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, well, we're going to pump that up with this podcast. So go give Devin at patriotic.forge.2.0, go give him a follow and and check him out.
01:03:38
David
Thank you for that. Yeah. Awesome.
01:03:42
Denis Tyrell
um So what other fun stuff? Are you doing the show again this year in September?
01:03:47
David
No, actually, I did this show twice, and as fun as it was, ah i just didn't feel like I got enough people traveling out to do it. you know so Although the makers sold knives, um a lot of them were sold to pur a purveyor Daniel O'Malley ah from Blade Gallery was kind enough to show up at the show. He actually even got a table and then he helped out by buying knives from people at the end of the show, which was very helpful.
01:04:20
David
He's a great purveyor. And just not enough traffic. i mean it's a long way to come. You've been here.
Benefits of Hammer-in Events
01:04:30
David
So to try to get people to come this far because the show was just down the road from my house. ah You know, it it didn't really work out. I mean, I would, I wanted to see more people showing up and I wanted to see, yeah, more collectors coming. I mean, we had a few collectors that flew in, but not nearly enough to justify having the show.
01:04:51
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, that's too bad.
01:04:51
David
And so, and also she's going to be moving that venue. So I gave it a shot and, uh, yeah,
01:05:00
Denis Tyrell
It sounds like a lot of work to put something like that together.
01:05:02
David
it was a lot of work for me and for Andrea.
01:05:04
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:05
David
And so, yeah i
01:05:08
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:05:10
David
Yeah, and like Andrea says, maybe we do something different. Who knows? But for right now, we're going to just take a break, digest what happened. It was fun. Everybody had a good time that came.
01:05:20
Denis Tyrell
yeah i've
01:05:21
David
but
01:05:21
Denis Tyrell
I've heard nothing but good things of the guys that attended. So everyone seemed to have a good time.
01:05:25
David
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I should have is just have a big hammer in. Have have a big hammer in.
01:05:31
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:32
David
That's probably what I will do next, actually. Trying to plan something where I can have people come and camp on the property and just have like hammer in, you know. Maybe charge people 50 bucks to be here or whatever. You know, I'll pay for the food and demonstrators and have demonstrations go on.
01:05:49
David
A few places around the country do it.
01:05:51
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, absolutely.
01:05:52
David
I think my place is suited for it and I now have a 20 by 40 foot tent. So, might as well put it to work, right? Yeah.
01:06:00
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, no, that'd be a great idea. um
01:06:02
David
Yeah.
01:06:02
Denis Tyrell
I've never actually been to a ham all the um sorry, I was at the actually that was a guild, I guess, but I've never really been to an official hammer in. um
01:06:12
David
Oh, I think you would love it. It's funny because when I started knife making, we had them all the time.
01:06:14
Denis Tyrell
yeah
01:06:19
David
In fact, ah a lot of people would say that one of the reasons the Northwest advanced in knife making and Damascus making faster than the rest of the country.
01:06:32
David
hope I don't ruffle any tail feathers here, but the Northwest was pretty far ahead of everybody else in Damascus making. Um, Because of the fact we were sharing information at hammer-ins.
01:06:44
David
We were all getting together and showing everybody what we learned, ah you know, two or three times a year. A core group of us getting together, doing all kinds of crazy stuff.
01:06:55
David
Making tomahogany, quenching big swords. We'd have a big, like, tank that you could see through the side of it. And everybody had come to the hammer and have to bring a sword to quench. And man, that was fun.
01:07:08
David
i don't know if you've ever seen swords quench through side of like a,
01:07:08
Denis Tyrell
Like, is this like an ah like a water quench?
01:07:11
David
Yeah, water quench in a big, like a big fish tank.
01:07:12
Denis Tyrell
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
01:07:13
David
So was basically a wood box all sealed off with one big pane of glass. And we would all quench the swords.
01:07:17
Denis Tyrell
Sure.
01:07:19
David
And also, you know, heating them in the forge to quench them. It was a lot of fun. We saw a lot of broken swords.
01:07:27
Denis Tyrell
I bet, especially with the water.
01:07:27
David
Yeah, well lot but just a lot of fun. And some swords that made it, you know, and some cool stuff. And we'd make steel at these things. Tomahogany. I've probably run at least five,
01:07:41
David
Kataras. Tomahogany steel melting. a
01:07:45
Denis Tyrell
Okay.
01:07:46
David
still me yeah well I learned from um
01:07:47
Denis Tyrell
yeah I've watched a couple of those at at maker camp.
01:07:51
David
Bill Burke showed us all how to do it. I'm not sure where Bill learned it from. But when we'd have a hammer and we'd build these Kataras. And then I did two or three on my own. So it was pretty fun.
01:08:02
David
And I've yet to make a Japanese sword.
01:08:02
Denis Tyrell
Hmm.
01:08:04
David
I still have blooms and chunks of Tomahogany I've made. And I've yet to make anything out of it.
01:08:12
Denis Tyrell
My issue with the Japanese swords, like, okay, you could make the blade in a week or two.
01:08:13
David
So.
01:08:18
Denis Tyrell
It's all the fittings. Everything takes forever.
01:08:21
David
Yeah.
01:08:22
Denis Tyrell
Everything's pressure fit.
01:08:23
David
Forever. Mm-hmm.
01:08:24
Denis Tyrell
That's what, every time I do a katana and I'm halfway through and I'm like week three and I'm, I'm hating life because I'm working on tiny little parts that have to, of just thinking about it.
01:08:38
David
Yeah, I've started no less than three, and I've never finished one. So I do know what you're talking about.
01:08:44
Denis Tyrell
You quit on the fittings?
01:08:46
David
What's that?
01:08:47
Denis Tyrell
You quit on the fittings or the, yeah.
01:08:48
David
Yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah, well, some of this stuff, you know, is hard to do and didn't really know how to do it. So without taking a class on it, like, it was really cool taking a class with Peter Johnson learning how not just to grind and prep that big blade, lay it all out,
01:09:07
David
But to balance it and balance all the hardware and hot fit the guard properly and the traditional handle wrapping and stuff like that. All that stuff you can figure out on your own. Like I know you figure out tons of stuff just watching YouTube, you know.
01:09:22
Denis Tyrell
Mm hmm.
01:09:22
David
But it's really cool to have somebody show you sometimes.
01:09:25
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, absolutely.
01:09:26
David
Just have somebody that knows how to do it show you.
Learning New Techniques
01:09:30
David
When I went to do my Master Smith dagger, I went to two different people to have them show me how to do flutes and wires.
01:09:39
David
Yeah.
01:09:40
Denis Tyrell
who were those people?
01:09:40
David
Yeah. Mike Quisenberry spent some time with me and showed me some stuff and some layout techniques. And then I went and took a class with Mike Bonino.
01:09:49
Denis Tyrell
Oh, really?
01:09:50
David
Yeah.
01:09:51
Denis Tyrell
OK.
01:09:51
David
Yeah. And Mike, Mike does a lot more than just make folders. Like Mike could teach anything really. But his main thing he teaches is folder making.
01:09:58
Denis Tyrell
Oh, yeah.
01:10:01
David
But I mean, if you knew if he was close to you and you wanted some tips on doing flutes and wires, he could certainly show you.
01:10:09
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, well, he's my main.
01:10:09
David
He could pretty much show you anything.
01:10:11
Denis Tyrell
He's my main master's myth. I go to Mike for most things.
01:10:14
David
Right. Well, yeah. Because he's close to you?
01:10:17
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:10:18
David
Yeah. Yeah.
01:10:19
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:10:19
David
like And there's nothing that Mike doesn't know about with knife making, really.
01:10:20
Denis Tyrell
Well, close-ish. Yeah. Yeah.
01:10:23
David
He makes folders, but he's been in the game for ah a minute.
01:10:27
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:10:28
David
Yeah.
01:10:28
Denis Tyrell
I was actually two weeks ago, was supposed to be at a class at Rick's place to do bolster release autos.
01:10:28
David
And he...
01:10:36
Denis Tyrell
But then Rick went and, yeah, Mike was coming up to Rick's place.
01:10:37
David
With Mike? See, if I, have yeah, but ah Vanina was going to teach that.
01:10:44
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, yeah.
01:10:46
David
Yeah, see, if I live close, there's no way you'd keep me out of that class. I'd be right there. Yeah.
01:10:50
Denis Tyrell
Well, I'll let you know when it is because it's going to get rescheduled.
01:10:55
David
All right. Yeah. Well, if I can make it, I'd come for that because that sounds awesome.
01:11:00
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, and I really want him.
01:11:01
David
That'd be a great class.
01:11:02
Denis Tyrell
I've been bugging Mike ever since Blade Show last year to show me the um scale release. Because I think that one's really cool.
01:11:09
David
Oh, yeah.
01:11:09
Denis Tyrell
The dual action scale release. Have you seen that one that he makes?
01:11:12
David
Uh-huh. ah Yeah, I have.
01:11:15
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, yeah, that one's awesome.
01:11:16
David
Yeah.
01:11:17
Denis Tyrell
I love that one.
01:11:17
David
No, it wasn't just like last year the year before last.
Selling Through Drop Point Newsletter
01:11:22
David
Maybe a couple years back, we flew Mike out just to give me and Andrea a class for a week.
01:11:27
Denis Tyrell
yeah
01:11:28
David
Yeah. I mean, I've known Mike. Mike taught at my school in Seattle. I've known Mike for a long time.
01:11:34
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, he's funny.
01:11:34
David
Yeah, he's a good dude.
01:11:36
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. um Well, we talked about swords and heat treating swords in a forge. You know, if I'm a heat treat disorder, I've got the big even heat kiln.
01:11:47
Denis Tyrell
So I would use the big 46 inch vertical even heat.
01:11:48
David
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
01:11:52
Denis Tyrell
and But if you guys are looking to get a heat treating oven, go check out Even Heat Kilns. Family owned and operated since 1948. They've been around a long time building the best quality heat treating ovens available.
01:12:07
Denis Tyrell
So if you need a heat treating oven, go check out Even Heat Kilns. And lastly, we're getting all these bills paid. If you guys have knives you're trying to sell, go check out the Drop Point. these are This is a newsletter from the the boys over at Skiff Workshop, and it's free. So you want to get your knives, your drops, whatever, a single knife, a whole drop of knives available.
01:12:33
Denis Tyrell
go put them out on the Drop Point. This is a newsletter that goes out to a ton of buyers, makers as well, but you're interested in your knives getting to the people that want to buy them. And it's free. So go check those out.
01:12:49
Denis Tyrell
It's really simple. You just follow the instructions on the website. It's really just send an email in ah in a format and it'll go up on the next week's Drop drop Point newsletter.
01:13:03
Denis Tyrell
And these are from the minds of ah Steve Skiff at the Skiff Workshop. I get all of my bearings for folders over at Skiff. Makes the best bearings. So go check out the Drawpoint. Get those knives sold.
01:13:19
Denis Tyrell
All right.
01:13:20
David
Awesome. and it First time I'm hearing about the drop point.
01:13:22
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, it's I put knives up there, and it's a great resource, and it goes out to a ton of people. ton of people.
01:13:30
David
Cool.
01:13:30
Denis Tyrell
It's not just folders. It's folders, culinary. They've got all kinds of different sections.
01:13:35
David
Wow. I mean, I might put a knife in there just for the exposure. You know, it's one of the things.
01:13:39
Denis Tyrell
It can't hurt, and it's free.
01:13:41
David
yeah You know, a lot of people, lot of people sometimes will poo poo working with a purveyor. I myself am an advocate for selling to purveyors because they're going to get you
Role of Purveyors in Sales
01:13:52
David
exposure. You have to think about it. It's almost like paid advertisement.
01:13:56
Denis Tyrell
Sure.
01:13:56
David
They're going to get you exposure that you would not get on your own. Yeah, so that's my thought on it.
01:14:03
Denis Tyrell
I've actually never used a purveyor with YouTube and stuff. like Mostly knives sell.
01:14:11
David
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you've got an audience for your knives.
01:14:14
Denis Tyrell
But.
01:14:14
David
But like if you were selling a lot of kitchen knives, it would certainly pay you to put a knife on a purveyor's website.
01:14:23
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. So you that that's one that's one thing you mentioned.
01:14:24
David
Because then your name's out there.
01:14:27
Denis Tyrell
i I have this thing, because I'm not known as a culinary knife maker. I can make culinary knives. You know, maybe they're not like top, top of the line, but I can make, you know, I can do ass grinds.
01:14:36
David
Yeah.
01:14:40
Denis Tyrell
I can do all those things in the blades. But for me, I have a harder time selling a high end chef knife that I'm going to put fancy Damascus on that I'm going to want to charge.
01:14:54
Denis Tyrell
2000 whatever whatever a lot of money for because I'm either selling it to a professional chef or just someone with a lot of money and it's the people with a lot of money that make me nervous when they buy ah really high-end Damascus chef knife because i I feel like I'm going to get that email that says, my knife is all rusty because they didn't know how to take care of it. um So I don't make a lot of, I do make them once in a while, but very rarely, because I guess I'm just not known as a culinary knife maker.
01:15:27
Denis Tyrell
But I think going to a purveyor would probably be the way to go if I was really going to get into high-end chef knives.
01:15:28
David
Yeah.
01:15:33
David
Yeah, if you're going to get into it, that's a great way to get your name out there because like a lot of the purveyors will have a catalog of the knives you sell to them. So if they they'll go there and they'll see your knives and you might not have something available on there.
01:15:44
Denis Tyrell
I see.
01:15:48
David
It might have already sold, but it's still showing and they're showing your work. And then that person will go, well oh, that's made by so-and-so. I'm may give him a call and see if he has anything available And that happens quite often once you have a body of work on a purveyor's website.
01:16:05
David
So that's just my thought on You almost have to think about it. You know, most of them take like 30%, something like that. And it's it's worth it.
01:16:14
Denis Tyrell
So are are those, sorry, finish your thought.
01:16:14
David
Because then you're selling.
01:16:18
David
oh oh I was just going Then when they call you, you're selling it at the same price the purveyor did. You're making that 30%. You're getting the full price from the customer that finds you on their own.
01:16:26
Denis Tyrell
I see.
01:16:29
Denis Tyrell
So when you're, most of the purveyors are you dealing with, are they buying knives from you and then like, but at a discount or are they selling them for you and taking a cut?
01:16:45
David
They're buying them. I get paid cash when they buy the knife.
01:16:45
Denis Tyrell
Okay. They're buying them from you. Okay. That's what I figured, but
01:16:49
David
Yeah, they pay you 70% of the knife's value. So if you had a knife for $2,000, you would get $1,600. Yeah,
01:16:58
Denis Tyrell
okay. Got it.
01:16:59
David
yeah they take $300 per thousand.
01:17:01
Denis Tyrell
It's not a, what's the other way to call
01:17:03
David
And that's how they get paid to do what they do. Still, you know, that's just how that's how it works.
01:17:07
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. Yeah. That's right.
01:17:10
David
so And a lot of times they'll buy two or three knives off you when they do it. You know, at Blade Show, purveyors, there's all kinds of purveyors walking around Blade Show.
01:17:21
David
You know, there's there's some Blade Shows I'll sell to two or three different purveyors at one show.
01:17:21
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:17:29
David
It happens.
01:17:29
Denis Tyrell
That's good. That's good.
01:17:31
David
Yeah.
01:17:32
Denis Tyrell
Got to get rid of them. if we can't We can't just make them and put them on a shelf and admire them, right?
01:17:34
David
Yeah, well
01:17:38
David
well, you know, that's
Selling Strategies at Blade Show
01:17:39
David
the thing. ah A lot of times if the purveyors are looking to buy a bunch of knives, it's And most of them know, wait until at least Saturday afternoon.
01:17:49
David
You know, give me the opportunity to sell the knife at the full price Friday and Saturday.
01:17:54
Denis Tyrell
Sure.
01:17:54
David
And by Saturday afternoon, if the knife's not sold, I'm ready.
01:17:59
Denis Tyrell
Yes.
01:17:59
David
I'm ready. It's like, we're getting rid of these now.
01:18:00
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:18:02
David
You know, because if you haven't sold it by Saturday afternoon, there's a good chance you you might go taking it home.
01:18:08
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:18:09
David
So if you can get 70% and not have it in your suitcase on the plane on the way home, that's kind of nice.
01:18:15
Denis Tyrell
Yes.
01:18:16
David
So I don't hesitate.
01:18:17
Denis Tyrell
um
01:18:17
David
I do not. um And most of the purveyors are pretty good about that. In fact, a lot of times they'll come by and go, hey, if this knife's still here on Saturday, will you sell it I'm like, yes. On Saturday afternoon, I certainly will.
01:18:31
David
Because they know you want the opportunity to sell it, especially when it's a real high-end knife.
01:18:31
Denis Tyrell
Well, that's, yeah that's a great, great to have that backup of sell it if you
International Show Considerations
01:18:41
Denis Tyrell
can. And if you don't, it's still sold like to a prepare.
01:18:43
David
Yes, exactly. That is very nice. yeah so
01:18:47
Denis Tyrell
Yeah. I'm contemplating. i think I probably will go to Martin Huber's show in Austria this year, really just to go to Austria.
01:18:55
David
Oh, really?
01:18:56
Denis Tyrell
Yeah.
01:18:57
David
How long of a flight is that?
01:19:00
Denis Tyrell
long um well well like um in September my wife and I went to Italy and it was two two seven hour flights no a five hour flight in 11 hour or 10 hour flight something like that it was like yeah it's it's yeah it's probably around around that
01:19:03
David
Yeah.
01:19:18
David
Yeah, it's like 15 hours. Yeah, because...
01:19:24
David
Yeah, from here to Australia, it's like 18 hours.
01:19:28
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, Austria, not Australia.
01:19:31
David
I know, but that's what I'm saying.
01:19:31
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.
01:19:32
David
But to Australia, it's like 18 hours. And that's why I haven't been to Australia.
01:19:37
Denis Tyrell
I'd love to go.
01:19:37
David
Yeah, because that just seems like... I mean, I fly to Atlanta every year. That's like five, five and a half hours. And that seems like a long time on a plane to me.
01:19:48
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, but 11 hours.
01:19:48
David
you know I recently did 11 hours. That was a long time.
01:19:54
Denis Tyrell
and hours and I've been 11 hours to Fiji from l LA, but that's, but um ah Italy wasn't bad, like the flight, but we're really, I'm taking my wife and we're really going to the show as an excuse to tour Austria.
01:20:00
David
Oh, yeah.
01:20:06
David
Yeah.
01:20:13
Denis Tyrell
And yeah, I think so.
01:20:13
David
You'll have a blast.
01:20:15
Denis Tyrell
And if it's a two day show and it's supposed to be really fun and I know a lot of guys that are going. So yeah, if I sell some knives. And if not, the trip is on the is on the company.
01:20:26
David
trips yeah it's like yeah you can at least write it off yeah sure
01:20:26
Denis Tyrell
and Yeah. Right. Yes. That's the the benefit. But I'm going to talk to a couple of friends that are going to be at Blade, Texas to get some lowdown. Because one of the questions I have is, OK, if I don't sell everything, presumably, let's say I don't sell all the knives, what if I'm touring around a couple of countries? Like, am I allowed to bring knives into those countries? um You know, that that's some of the things I have to think about.
01:20:56
Denis Tyrell
And like, what does it mean to sell knives in Austria?
01:20:57
David
Yeah.
01:20:59
Denis Tyrell
Like, is there taxes and all kinds of other stuff I got to worry about? I've never had to think about that before.
01:21:04
David
Yeah. That is something about me because i I have seen guys come from Australia to Atlanta and bring knives and not be able to break them back to Australia.
01:21:16
David
Like, they can get them out, but they can't get them back in. So they pretty much have to either sell it or leave it with a purveyor or something.
01:21:24
Denis Tyrell
Oh, because of the knife laws in Australia?
01:21:25
David
Yeah. cause Mm-hmm. Yeah, like you cannot have a double-edged knife in Australia.
01:21:32
Denis Tyrell
I
01:21:32
David
For instance, a dagger would be a knife. You could not get back in to the country. Yeah.
01:21:38
Denis Tyrell
imagine the UK is probably pretty similar. They've got some pretty strict.
01:21:42
David
I imagine. Yeah, I don't know. i don't know their laws, but I'm glad we've got it kind of easy here. Except for in California. Those guys are uptight, man.
01:21:52
Denis Tyrell
Tell me about it.
01:21:53
David
no No ivory at all. Like none.
01:21:57
Denis Tyrell
Well, yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm waiting on. I'm actually waiting on some ivory for that dagger that's ah it's late.
01:22:05
David
Oh, yeah.
01:22:08
Denis Tyrell
It's been a couple of weeks late because of the snowmageddon.
01:22:10
David
Oh, no, I hope there's not a problem.
01:22:12
Denis Tyrell
No, no, it's it's coming. It was because of the the snow that was happening on the East Coast.
01:22:19
David
Oh, yeah, sure.
01:22:20
Denis Tyrell
So so it it got kind of delayed, but it's it's on its way tomorrow from the East Coast. and a better It better be here on time because I need it for that build.
Wrap Up and Future Plans
01:22:32
Denis Tyrell
All right. We've been going for an hour and 20 minutes. We got all the bills paid. I'm looking forward to seeing you at Texas and chit-chatting. Maybe we'll have a beer.
01:22:44
Denis Tyrell
And I'm excited to show you these knives and get all the feedback, good or bad.
01:22:49
David
Well, I look forward to seeing the knives and thanks for having me on the show. It's been a pleasure. really enjoyed it.
01:22:53
Denis Tyrell
Yeah, it's been great and love to hear all the backstories on things. And I got a lot of great info on ABS, MasterSmith, and some interesting things that I didn't know, like the stainless steel thing I thought was interesting.
01:23:09
David
All right.
01:23:09
Denis Tyrell
But all right, I will see you next month, Dave.
01:23:14
David
I'm looking forward to it. We'll see you then, Dennis.
01:23:16
Denis Tyrell
All right.
01:23:20
Denis Tyrell
Well,
01:23:35
Denis Tyrell
And that's a wrap.