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A Mother Grieving Her Young-Adult Son’s Death with Sally McQuillen
55 Plays7 days ago
Sally McQuillen, LCSW, CADC, is a psychotherapist in private practice specializing in addiction recovery, grief and trauma healing. An avid reader with a double major in writing and dance criticism in college, she began working in public relations and marketing prior to obtaining her master’s degree in social work. Reaching for Beautiful is Sally’s first book. She and her husband live on the north shore of Chicago where they raised their three children.
https://www.sallymcquillen.com/
Key topics in this conversation include:
- The Nature of Grief: Sally describes grief as a complex experience where many deep emotions can exist at once. She and Kendra discuss how past losses don't always prepare you for new ones, and even with coping tools, they may not be accessible in the moment of trauma.
- A Family's Journey with Addiction: Sally opens up about the legacy of addiction in her family, from her father to her own recovery, and finally to her son's struggles. She shares how she became fully transparent about her past when Christopher needed help at age 16.
- The Loss of Christopher: Christopher passed away in a canoeing accident with three friends during a college break. After being sober for three years, he had relapsed, wanting to fit in with his fraternity brothers. The tragedy of multiple families losing their children at once was an overwhelming and traumatic experience.
- Parenting from Love Over Fear: Sally reflects on parenting Christopher from a state of "fight or flight" and emphasizes the importance of parents calming their own nervous systems. She found that consciously letting go of fear deepened her connection with her son before he passed away.
- Signs and Hope: Sally's belief that Christopher is still alive in spirit has been fundamental to her survival. A pivotal conversation on an airplane introduced her to A Course in Miracles, which reinforced her path of choosing love over fear.
- Honoring Christopher's Legacy: Sally and her family keep Christopher's memory alive by supporting two charities in his name: The Penguin Project for young adults with special needs and the In Balance Ranch Academy, which provides scholarships for addiction treatment.
- A Message of Hope: Sally offers a powerful message to any parent who has lost a child: the loss is survivable, even when it feels impossible. She aims to offer hope to others walking this difficult path.
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Transcript
Exploring Grief through Shared Stories
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions. Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone.
00:00:27
Speaker
Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:00:37
Speaker
Thank you for joining us
Meet Sally McKillen: Therapist and Author
00:00:39
Speaker
today. Today, I'm chatting with Sally McKillen. She is a psychotherapist specializing in grief, trauma, and addiction recovery. She is a mother, and she wrote a memoir of the unimaginable loss that it is of losing a child. And this memoir is called Reaching for Beautiful, a memoir of loving and losing A Wild Child.
00:01:06
Speaker
And I'm so happy to have you here, Sally. And as I told you before we started recording, I did not wear mascara just in case. So for those of you listening...
00:01:17
Speaker
there's There's usually a lot of... laugh i usually laugh a lot too when I'm like interviewing. It's not all sorrow. And there a lot of the things that you share about Christopher are very lighthearted too of who he was. So there might be some laughter in this conversation as well. So we don't know. Very, very possibly anything goes.
Navigating Complex Grief Emotions
00:01:41
Speaker
And one of the things that grief has taught me or the journey around it has taught me is that it's possible to feel so many emotions simultaneously in such depths.
00:01:56
Speaker
I never knew, but but truly it is. Yes, it is. Is Christopher the first, ah had you ever lost your parents or any, I know you had ah growing up something, you know we can talk a little bit about that if it comes up in the conversation, and but in your memoir, you go a little bit about your own upbringing, but Had you ever had another death in your family that was this close to you?
00:02:21
Speaker
I had lost my father and i had lost um a niece on my on the McQuillan side um who who died unexpectedly in her 40s.
00:02:34
Speaker
But I had not, you know, probably the most significant loss to me before that had been my grandmother who lived to be 100. sort of interestingly enough,
00:02:48
Speaker
interestingly enough she i was named after her. She was Sally. And we had a very incredible camaraderie. she just I adored her. She was such a source of comfort.
00:03:03
Speaker
And I would visit her for years after my grandfather died every Sunday. And I'd go to her apartment and sit at her feet and um and just...
00:03:15
Speaker
listen and talk and um sort of bask in her adoration. That was probably the most, I remember about a year after she passed, she finally starting to feel like some of the sadness was lifting, which was quite different than um how I've moved through the grief over the loss of my 21-year-old son, Christopher.
00:03:48
Speaker
but um But again, ah yeah deep, deep love ah and and affection for her. Mm-hmm. It's so interesting because even what what I've noticed and experienced myself with having gone through different types of grief is that it just doesn't necessarily even truly even prepare you for the next one.
Personal Coping Mechanisms
00:04:12
Speaker
Even knowing that I know some things, you may have some tools, and this is what I tell people and even just my clients, you can have a toolbox, like you can have everything. But in the moment of that particular, you know, like you you maybe you walk, maybe you you listen to music, you journal, whatever it is that your tools are for when you're moving your grief through.
00:04:35
Speaker
But in the moment of a loss, you really do not know if you're even going to find the toolbox. It's like, right? you're You're so right. And I've i've said around this loss of my son that I needed every possible resource, but part of it was just one after another or getting to a place along the way that I actually had access to a different resource.
00:05:06
Speaker
And it's like you said, you know I feel like I had a bit of a leg up being a therapist in some ways, but at the same time, I'm still so human and this is my firstborn Gorgeous boy and and my greatest fear realized. So um it is an interesting thing to sort of be open to or or know what you might do and then not even necessarily be able to do it.
00:05:39
Speaker
not have. not Yeah. So not, yeah. not it And at the moment, like you, a bit I believe you mentioned, it was at seven years later that you kind of felt that the grief lifted up a little bit for you.
00:05:50
Speaker
What, what was it about that seven year mark for you then? and And we can go a little bit deeper and in a moment about the, how he died, but what was it about that yeah seven years that all of a sudden felt just slightly lighter?
Healing through Writing 'Reaching for Beautiful'
00:06:05
Speaker
It's interesting because now when I can look back in hindsight, I can say that the writing of Reaching for Beautiful was more healing than I could even appreciate at the time. And so at the seven-year mark I was, i had really completed.
00:06:28
Speaker
it was official. It was, um this this book was essentially done. there were, ah you know, some some all sorts of pieces to getting it ready to actually go out in the world, but it was essentially written.
00:06:45
Speaker
and so I think that might've had something to do with it. And um and i I guess that's one of the things that i like to impart to other grievers or to people who were who have not lost a loved one or have not lost a child is that we have this idea that, you know, after a certain period of time, it's going to be wrapped up in a bow. And for me, grief will be for the rest of this journey of the ebbs and the flows of it will be for the rest of my lifetime.
00:07:22
Speaker
But um I did return back to myself. A lot of the, you know took time for the physiological traumatic symptoms. And it took work to um be able to return to the sort of ability to also experience joy as well as sadness. Yeah.
00:07:49
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that with such eloquence. My goodness, I feel like I'm going to be like fumbling here with your eloquence in your words, which English was one of your, was English one of your majors as well? English was one of my college. i had to come back to that when I, when I started to quote this memoir. Yes.
00:08:10
Speaker
I love it. Now you had mentioned, and I get, I'm like, this is all because I'm still like curious. You, it, as I was reading and I, to the listeners have not finished the book, I'm like a hundred pages, almost done.
00:08:22
Speaker
Um, there was a part that you said, Joe, your husband was also right. Is he right? Was he writing? Cause there was a part that said, I think by this point he's going to finish before I do something like that. And I'm like, where did I miss the part that Joe was also writing a book? So now I'm curious, did Joe end up finishing his book?
00:08:39
Speaker
Only did he finish one, but he has finished two and has a third on the way. And in his sort of characteristic way, I began writing first and um and shortly thereafter, he began to write and he had finished his first book in in a record, you know, at at record speed. Um,
Family's Literary Journey
00:09:06
Speaker
there's nothing he doesn't do, you know, sort of quickly. And, um, and his are sort of much more metaphysically oriented. And, um, he's been, ah
00:09:20
Speaker
a great influence for me in terms of deepening my belief that Christopher is, um you know, that there is, that there is an afterlife, that Christopher is, is very much alive in spirit. And that's been fundamental to my survival. And so his, his books are different, but, um but so, and,
00:09:45
Speaker
and I'd love have him on if he ever wants to come. I'll pass his. Yes, I will absolutely encourage that. That would be wonderful.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah, that'd be great because it's just, see, reading it from a different viewpoint too of the two parents having gone through something and just how each of you experienced it and each of you, it'd be just so amazing for...
00:10:08
Speaker
to be able to view the both. I would love, love that. My parents experienced the loss of my sister. So they experienced a lot. So having, being a, being a child myself, ah you know, i'm I was 21 when she died.
00:10:23
Speaker
um So I guess I'm kind of like what your daughter, car Caroline was two years younger and Williams much younger. um He's um six years younger than Christopher. so He's 25. Christopher would be 31 today and Caroline
Family Dynamics and Reflections
00:10:42
Speaker
is 29. April 15th.
00:10:43
Speaker
April 15th. Yes, Kendra. Yes.
00:10:46
Speaker
yeah written present april fifteenth april fifth yeah can dry yeah April 15th, an unforgettable day. Yes. My son is April 10th and his dude my due date was April 15th with him at one point. and I'm like, oh, tax day. He's going to be on ah a tax day, baby. so Isn't that funny? I hope you had your taxes done that year when he was born before you went into the hospital. I sure i sure hope you did well in advance. I can't remember, so that's a good sign. Yeah.
00:11:20
Speaker
All right. So let's go into little bit of this story. So at what point did you actually start writing your book after back? Like when did you start? Because it was a friend of you that that told, that that was one of the many probably suggestions that people say when you're grieving. And it was a friend of you that shared that writing might be helpful for you. Yes.
00:11:48
Speaker
It's so funny because I love the way you put that. So many people have all sorts of, you know, grief can't be fixed, but people want, and and I'm so grateful ah for all of the people who wanted to be there and support and help carry us through this. And so this was a friend who reached out, I think on my Facebook page and said that one of the things that was helpful to her was to write to her loved one she lost.
00:12:22
Speaker
And For some reason, that landed with me. um i'd It had been suggested to me to journal. you you know i'd had that suggestion so so many times but um and never seized on it.
00:12:38
Speaker
But there was something about this that it was desperately yearning for connection with my son. i didn't feel like I knew where he'd gone. I felt like the floor had dropped out from under me and I was free falling.
00:12:54
Speaker
And so this really tethered me and to be able to, and it was 21 days after he passed at the age of 21. So I remember it well. And i just began in little you know, it might be, ah have been a line or two at a time of expressing to him what I was feeling. And, and the initial draft was purely written to Christopher and it probably would have become fairly relentless because it's just, you know, ad infinitum. I miss you. I miss you. I miss you. um
00:13:34
Speaker
But, but, you know, I tried to I, um you know, it had many drafts along the way all ultimately became the story of raising him and then trying to give people an inside look at what it felt like.
00:13:53
Speaker
And I've always been a deep feeler. So there's this part of me that wanted to be able to take my insides and and sort of pour them into the page.
00:14:06
Speaker
And i also wanted to help people, but I hadn't i hadn't gotten to the point of thinking, well, will it really help people if they have to move through your grief with you? And all I can say is, hopefully it does help other grievers feel less alone as they do take the journey with me.
00:14:27
Speaker
and then It's filled with Christopher energy and spirit and trying to capture his life, which is what I think brings the lightness and the humor in and the tension because he had me at the edge of my seat from the get-go.
00:14:47
Speaker
That is one of the things that I feel that was so ah raw and real and that it's very rare to see this perspective of a parent writing writing about their child, about how much you love them and miss them, but also the reality of who they were and the complexity of who they were. there you know we We tend to, when somebody dies, put them up on a pedestal and forget every other thing that might have occurred.
00:15:22
Speaker
And you are very real of just sharing all the things all the little imperfections, but that really make us who we are as human beings and including your own, your own little imperfections as well, right? As a parent, as a parent in your own thing. And I, I, I just, I really want to say that I really value that you did that because it does really, i can connect with that so much as well. Like seeing that, that we just, thank you for that. Yeah.
00:15:55
Speaker
and we We are. and um and early on, when I was trying to decide if i wanted to take this into something that was not just going to be my own healing journal and, and make it into something that other readers could see.
00:16:14
Speaker
I went to ah medium because we I'd begun to go to various mediums and that's part of my that journey. that was a good one yeah and And had a number of Rebecca no but yes rebecca rosen was the first medium that I that i ever went to see and um such a beautiful introduction to the possibility that, that his energy could, could be close.
00:16:44
Speaker
And, um and so one of the things I was told was, he just wants you to speak the truth. And so I really, ah you know, and it's my truth. It it was is as I lived it. And, and I think that Christopher would agree that if it's serving people in any way. we you know ah There's a big thread throughout the book of the legacy of addiction, of um you know growing up as the daughter of an alcoholic father, of then becoming an alcoholic and entering recovery, and then having a child who became an alcoholic. All of that is part of what I didn't want sugarcoat.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah. You mentioned a lot about yourself and was, was, is Joe also a, he, yeah he was more, he was more open about, there was a part of you saying that there's a part that you weren't as open to sharing your journey with your kids. Joe was a little bit more open with the kids, right. About his own journey.
00:17:50
Speaker
And, and, yeah and around what age do you, do you think that that was like these conversations with them? Well, it was funny because when we first Christopher's addiction, um you know, it's interesting because he,
00:18:05
Speaker
um you know he was He was challenging, and i and I couldn't quite figure out what it was that was so challenging about him. And then ultimately, he was diagnosed with attention deficit, which which made for a part of it.
00:18:19
Speaker
And um he was just in the moment um and so wild and free. And he was reckless. And so that instilled fear in me early, had I not probably already been carrying a... you know, a chunk of anxiety already.
00:18:40
Speaker
and um And so all of that just kept blossoming such that I feared that he would develop an addiction and his addiction was pretty fast and furious in the way that it took hold. And so by 16, we were sending him away for help.
00:18:58
Speaker
And at that point, um I just kind of came entirely clean because previously, I just felt as if I didn't want to condone um certain behaviors. And it was a mistake I made because um my own shame in certain respects prevented me from um the kind of transparency that I now have. um There isn't anyone that doesn't know this about me anymore. And I don't want to, you know, it's it's tricky sometimes in being person
00:19:39
Speaker
a member of a self-help group, you know anonymity is is you know espoused. And so i I believe in that, but I also like that I'm comfortable and and I know Chris would be comfortable um with people because this is part of who we want to help with this book is anyone who...
00:20:02
Speaker
who may or may not have a child they've lost, but who's struggled with addiction because we sort of speak to what that's like.
00:20:14
Speaker
Hi, I just had to come on and just kind of interrupt right now this episode that you're hearing. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you guys are listening to this conversation. And every single time i hear a guest, there's something new that I learn and something else that ends up showing up within me that I realize I still have to work on.
00:20:34
Speaker
And if by chance, as you're listening to this conversation, you're feeling the same, that there's parts of you that are being stirred up and you are navigating a life transition right now that feels just heavy and stressful and just layered with grief.
00:20:49
Speaker
I want you to know that you do not have to do it alone. I invite you to connect with me for a free 15 minute discovery call and we'll explore what's coming up for you and see if working together feels like the right fit. Just check the show notes below for my email and reach out for details.
00:21:09
Speaker
I'd really love to support you in integrating these transitions with more ease and clarity. Can't wait to hear back from you. Okay, let's keep on listening to the episode.
00:21:27
Speaker
Yes. And so let's go into the circumstances because we've been talking and
Tragedy of Christopher's Death
00:21:31
Speaker
we haven't shared it. and And we want people to read the book, of course, please do, because we're only just touching the surface here of what the depth of the book itself is and your memoir.
00:21:43
Speaker
So the circumstances around his death and why why the element of the addiction also kind of slayed apart in the circumstances of it. And I do want to, um, yeah, make some clarification around it. So Christopher, um, got clean and sober, um at 16 and was, um, able to stay clean and sober for three full years.
00:22:08
Speaker
And, um, at that point, he wanted to go to college. And ah much of who he he was, was someone who wanted to, who was extremely social and driven by um ah social consciousness and what his friends were doing. And so he wanted to be like everybody else. And he too, it in yeah yeah exactly, did not want to be different. And um so he went off to college and and thought, maybe I'll
00:22:40
Speaker
able to take what I've learned and and have that spare me from you know falling into the trap of of these potent genes that I've inherited. And um and lo and behold, you know that wasn't the case. um At some point, he talked about um resuming sobriety. He knew he'd have to, but he didn't want it to take him away from the joy of being with his beloved um brothers in his fraternity and and friends. um And he was so fortunate during that period of time that he was back to drinking and partying because he had incredible friendships with whom we've stayed connected in many regards. And um now we're seeing them
00:23:33
Speaker
get married and raise children and, um, let us love them. And that's been hugely healing. So I'm so grateful to them. I'm just, yeah, I don't know what I would do without them. So there's that piece.
00:23:49
Speaker
But so he came, he was on break. It was, um, in January of 2016, he'd come through Christmas and new years and being in the city, um, at, at bars and, and come through that and was, um, going to join a whole bunch of guys up at a lake house in Wisconsin from Illinois.
00:24:14
Speaker
and um And they were all parting, of course, as as young men do. and um he and three other young men,
00:24:27
Speaker
and age is twenty and twenty one went um off unto into the old lake. um They decided to take a canoe and none of them survived that adventure.
00:24:41
Speaker
And, um and so it was hugely traumatic to have your child go missing and then be recovered that way. and, and, and,
00:24:54
Speaker
and and um too much to absorb that I was not alone in that, that there were other parents also losing their children.
00:25:07
Speaker
Christopher knew these other boys. um I didn't know all of the other parents. I knew one of the other boys who was who had been a ah good friend.
00:25:18
Speaker
And it was just way too much to integrate. Um, And so that was a big part of, ah or the initial part, the shock ah and the trauma of moving through that. That took years before I um felt like I was not a shell of myself.
00:25:42
Speaker
But I tried to be there for my two living children and and for my husband. And um yeah, so that was that was what happened.
00:25:54
Speaker
amazing. That's so much because it's not only, like you said, it was not only you're grieving your own child, you're also grieving the other children that were there too, especially if you knew one. So it's just a layered grief there as well with with that experience. And yeah, so so it's like a reync for all his growing up, you'd always kind of live probably on the edge of whether, right, he'd be coming back. It's kind
00:26:27
Speaker
ah Yes. I'm going to say something and it's going to sound so weird.
00:26:34
Speaker
like you always felt like you're holding your breath. Like, do you feel now that you can breathe? I'm so, and I know that this is a very personal kind of question, but I love it. I love, I love a deep question. you And it it doesn't sound weird to me at all. I, um I was, you know, as a, as a therapist, I can kind of speak to it in a detached way. um I was in fight or flight while parenting him. And see he had, as you've you've read, i think you probably hit on most of the near death accidents that he, that he had throughout the course of his life. So even when sober, um we nearly lost him several times. And so it wasn't going to take a rocket scientist to fear that he might go. And, you know, you said something earlier, you said you were speaking to the, you know, because you've lost, you've had a number of significant family losses and
00:27:42
Speaker
And you said, one doesn't prepare you for another. and And one of the things that we do when we've been traumatized or when our nervous system is hijacked and we're in fight or flight is we think that if we...
00:27:57
Speaker
um if we prepare, if we if we sort of have that kind of catastrophic thinking that prepares us for the worst, that we will indeed be prepared when in fact what we've just done is we've lost the present moment in anticipation.
00:28:17
Speaker
And so big part of the message that I try to carry in this book and when I'm interviewed is if possible, if we as humans, as parents, as mothers can try to find ways to calm our nervous systems, to take care of ourselves, to put our own oxygen masks on so that we can be more present in the love we give instead of
00:28:49
Speaker
Fear-driven and chasing and micromanaging and trying to protect and fix and prevent our children from being on their life paths.
00:29:03
Speaker
then that is the answer because no amount of of fear benefited me in any way. um In fact, as I tried to let go of it, i was as I was conscious of letting go of it, thankfully, while Christopher was still alive, after he'd relapsed,
00:29:25
Speaker
And I said, I must let go. And I had the privilege of attending self-help groups that were encouraging me to do, you know, what's funny is, you know, there's now this excessively popular book in the world that's called Let Them. Yes, I read it.
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure you have, you know, and it's sort of like what she's done is she's taken much of these principles that I've been studying for years.
00:29:55
Speaker
yeah Is it is its principles, a lot of them that have to do with e with a with having been ah recovering? It's very much Al-Anon. It's very much Al-Anon principles. It's really these principles that are designed for anyone who's in a relationship with someone um where they have to learn the hard way that there is just no controlling this.
00:30:21
Speaker
and um And so if we can do this, if we can practice what she's made so um digestible to us, which is to to let go and to let go of fear, then to me, it's also very much the teachings of, um, a course in miracles, which Christopher brought me to after he died, I felt sort of that that this course landed in my lap.
00:30:51
Speaker
And is that this is the one that the lady in the airplane, this has to, Oh, and I wanted, I wrote that down. yeah i want to talk about that. So don't let me forget, but yeah. Um, Marianne Williamson, very much. Um,
00:31:05
Speaker
you know, so has written about and speaks to this, this course and um tries to return us to love. And that's, that's what my life um path is, is bringing me into. And, and so when I was refraining from more fear, it actually deepened my connection with my son before he um
00:31:33
Speaker
turned into a spirit. Yeah. before his love is soul has ended. I love that. and I love that. love because it's like when when my mom ah died, and we would we usually recall when she transitioned, like we would use that way because literally it did feel that way. It was a transition. And I know that with my sister and my mom, like I know that there is no, like I know there is no separation.
00:32:01
Speaker
There isn't. There is not one. And there's one analogy that, is ah one that comes like from my own like religious beliefs, but it's that of the womb and the child in the womb being in this world and thinking that this is all there is.
00:32:18
Speaker
Yet there's these glimpses of of sound, of everything that they hear from this other. And it's and all that separates us from one world for the other is just... This much, right? so veil That veil, what we call a veil yeah veil. Yes. And so and then you realize it's like, oh, the yeah, we were here all along. They're here all along. So it's like I right now we're still in the womb. They're And they're yeah outside of the womb. And so my my world, my understanding, Christopher has taught me so much. It's just opened my eyes to appreciating that all that matters is love and that we're all connected.
00:33:07
Speaker
And the word behind you have it right above in your, are you sitting in your kitchen? I'm sitting in my office, yes. In your office. And then I see at the back right there over your window, L-O-V-E, love. And that's like the reminder that that is really, we are love and that love that you love You showed so clearly to Christopher throughout his life. I love all these little messages. ah Even you finding his little children's book. I'm like, now I was like, even think I'm like, did I keep any of my, how many kids, but how many books did I keep up when my kids were little?
00:33:41
Speaker
Now I'm wanting to keep it after I saw your After I read that part of your book, that you went back to like that you had written him a little love note there, even though he was probably two when you gave him that book, yet that you had found a little love note written on the book and that that love continued throughout in this book that you wrote to him in these love letters. It's just so it's so beautiful because it's just a contin it's a love story of this mother towards his son. That's really what it is.
00:34:12
Speaker
It speaks to as well what you were saying about how complex we are and and and how we are who we are when we enter this world, how the essence of us is um is all of those things. that And I've heard myself saying to several people lately, I wouldn't have changed a thing. Would I have wanted to have locked my son up? Would I have really, really wanted to have reigned him in
00:34:42
Speaker
No, because then I would have stolen from him his magic. And he, you know, that was part of, there's there's nothing about him that that wasn't free while here. And now I get to easily envision the freedom of that in heaven.
00:35:05
Speaker
I love that. Thank you. I wanted to touch on the part of the, your airplane ride Savannah. Were you going to Savannah? I know that the lady that was next to you was going to Savannah. You were going to Savannah too for your aunt's funeral. If I'm, I'm sorry, I'm trying to like, yes, you've got the good, good timing.
00:35:27
Speaker
Okay. And then the lady next to you, you weren't sure like how much to say of what it is you you were going to, what where you were going to or for what you were going to.
00:35:38
Speaker
And then this kind of cautiousness in the conversation is like, how much do I say? so the part of when you actually do share with her and how open she was in receiving and that then she says that they're all going to this ah book club of the Book of Miracles, that is something like that, right? That their book club was in the plane. And so if you want to... Yes, yes. I know it's not giving... If you don't mind sharing that part because I want to touch deeper into this part. So can you talk about that? I will. I i i want to... um
00:36:15
Speaker
speak to
00:36:18
Speaker
inside, I'll just speak to my own experience of of grieving the loss of a child.
Sharing Grief with Strangers
00:36:26
Speaker
It's um you become a walking representation of every parent's greatest fear. And so, and and interestingly enough, the world has changed dramatically in the last and nearly 10 years since Christopher passed.
00:36:43
Speaker
But um grief still instinctively brings about such discomfort. and um And so the last thing that you want as a griever is to further alienate yourself when you're already feeling so very much alone.
00:37:04
Speaker
And so there are times when people attempt to bridge the gap and they say something that makes it so apparent that they have no idea. And so it then separate like you know builds this feeling of separation which is excruciating when you're already in in such agony.
00:37:30
Speaker
So it's a risk when you do invite other people in Like our loss was so very public, so most people knew. So I didn't even really have the opportunity to choose with whom to share you know in my community.
00:37:48
Speaker
But here I was on an airplane alone heading to Savannah, And this young woman was just so very open and warm and comforting in a moment when I took that risk. and our conversation was what promoted promoted this course in miracles being dropped in my lap, which was something that ended up, you know, like you said, those um different resources. It was a resource that was I'd heard about, much like sort of journaling, but had I actually was granted access to it. In that moment, it was I had this sense that it's exactly what Christopher wanted me do.
00:38:38
Speaker
to learn about And then coincidentally or not, a friend of mine happened to be teaching it. And so I happened to start learning about this. And it it really helped me because I was in this conundrum of...
00:38:54
Speaker
wait a minute, I think I'm supposed to be letting go of fear. But almost just as I had successfully let go, i lost him.
00:39:06
Speaker
He died. What am I supposed to conclude? Does that mean I should stay in fear? Should I have been more controlling? Should I have, um you know, there's a contagious, there's sort of ah maternal contagion you know, if you're spending time with other mothers where, oh, you mean you don't know what they're doing every 24 hours? And should have...
00:39:33
Speaker
should i should i have succumb to more of that when I was attempting to separate myself from it? And the answer was no. The answer, this this course for me was, it was just what the doctor ordered.
00:39:50
Speaker
No, you are to look to love and celebrate that and try to relinquish fear.
00:40:00
Speaker
What you're speaking of right now is like, it's touching me so much because I'm a mother of teenagers right now, right? One just going off to college, the other one is a senior.
00:40:12
Speaker
And it is something that you just, it is so true. This whole thing that you do not know if how you're parenting is based on your own intuition of parenting and what is right for your children.
00:40:31
Speaker
And for yourself and for your own family dynamics, or if you're parenting based on what society expects you to do. I know that for sure. When my kids were little, I was like, I was like parenting of whatever book I read at that moment.
00:40:47
Speaker
kind of parenting, right? I'm like, oh, yes this is how I'm supposed to parent. I guess I am supposed to put my child in timeout. He's 15 months. I guess I'll put him in timeout. Or because the doctor said, nope, he's supposed to be all these things and that we just don't allow.
00:41:03
Speaker
our own intuition to really be the one to guide us. And there's something that I feel is similar in grief. As much as I am ah grief coach, it's just like with you being a therapist that also helps with grief,
00:41:18
Speaker
And trauma and all these things, there's an element that we have, and it's, I guess, the return to love, right, of of the Course in Miracles, is that we really, truly just return to who we are and our intuition and we guide from that place, even in our grief, if we really even grieve from that inner knowing...
00:41:39
Speaker
we we'll be fine we will We will survive it. Right? It's so true and so challenging and um ongoing ongoing. That's why I like the word return because our human nature, our maternal instincts are such that sometimes we even confuse ourselves with intuition.
Children's Growth through Challenges
00:42:09
Speaker
um Even when we're attempting to sift through all of the the fearful input, then sometimes, you know, because I did intuitively feel like I wouldn't have my son for long. So i it's so interesting how we can throw ourselves off, but but i I do feel like there's this practice of coming back to remembering that they are just as we are, here to face challenges, to um actually experience some pain, to do all of those things that will help them earn wisdom and and growth.
00:42:58
Speaker
and um and And only in that way, only through the living of their lives, will they have takeaways. And so we have to let them have those. And we can't, if we cannot shelter them anymore, there's the let them again, you know? yeah It's just, it's funny, but it does come to that.
00:43:21
Speaker
I love it. I love it. Thank you. You know, the, kind of the, the reason that part of you with that conversation with the lady up in the airplane that it, and you explained it a little bit more that you did, you never really know like, okay, what do I share?
00:43:37
Speaker
Because in that moment, You don't know if the other person's ready to receive that information either. It's not always about yourself because you, and there's times in which like, okay, like I'm comfortable talking about grief. I'm comfortable talking about death. I'm saying myself, I'm not yeah in my case.
00:43:56
Speaker
But it doesn't necessarily mean that the other person is. And so it's having this balance of the knowing. And I was telling this friend whose dad recently passed, and she's like, I don't know what to tell some of my coworkers or things.
00:44:11
Speaker
And I'm like, you'll you'll know, because sometimes there's a moment in which you'll have like a feeling like, no, yes, tell them. Tell them what actually happened and what you're going through. That's right. And that may be because that person is needing also to be seen in their own pain and their own experience.
00:44:30
Speaker
So for you to have also opened up and sharing that, it was that little nudge, mom, mom, mom, tell her. And and vulnerability is strength, you know, and and sometimes even when, um and and and frankly, you know, as a deep feeler and as someone who's you know fascinated by psychology and wants to have deep connection. There are plenty of times I get it wrong and I you know express too much, but maybe as you said, then someone um then takes away
00:45:12
Speaker
it just, it creates hopefully more comfort with conversations such as these, you know, even if you're kind of met with this. and Yes, because even just like with listening to this podcast, somebody's going to listen to it and somebody will relate to certain parts of the story and be seen, feel seen because they've heard someone else going through similar challenges as they are. So,
00:45:35
Speaker
There is an element of this community of ah sharing and being vulnerable because what it's helping, not only ourselves, but really what it's doing for others that may be feeling so alone in their own experience.
00:45:50
Speaker
Absolutely. And we we just too often fight these. I mean, it's so hard to welcome such pain, but but when we do let it have more of its way with us, then people can't help but to,
00:46:09
Speaker
um I think that's part of where the healing happens. it it lightens and then it makes us more available for um life's joys. And my daughter, Caroline, just got married this past weekend.
00:46:26
Speaker
And so talk about being present for all of the love and all of the joy and, and Christopher's spirit was was very present in all of it. And so it's just interesting to me that as as I give myself permission or sadness, then I also get to go to the depths of greater ah gratitude and happiness.
00:46:56
Speaker
Yes, because it's if you end up shutting off one emotion, you are completely shutting off all the rest, too. So if you're allowing the emotion of grief to just flow, you'll ah you're also then allowing, like you said, the emotions of gratitude, of joy, of excitement, of anxiety.
00:47:17
Speaker
yeah have All these other things to also come come through too. So I love that. Can you share a little bit of how you've incorporated, you just mentioned a huge milestone in your family's life with Caroline getting married.
Honoring Christopher's Memory
00:47:31
Speaker
How are ways in which you guys have kept his memory alive within some of these milestones in your family? Yes, we do.
00:47:44
Speaker
We do. everything we can to honor him and um we support two charities in his name um one of one of which is called the Penguin Project, which helps young adults with um special needs perform in a musical um twice a year and help special education majors. um Christopher was one at his university,
00:48:17
Speaker
um mentor these young adults and perform on the stage with them. So that's one of the ways that we um translate our love for him. and then another big one is that we support the In Balance Ranch Academy and we do an annual golf outing.
00:48:38
Speaker
um Here, typically in September, we're not doing it this year because in lieu of our special occasion that we've just celebrated, but we will resume doing it next September um for the ranch to be able to give scholarships to um young people who couldn't otherwise afford to get treatment um and support for addiction.
00:49:05
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Those are wonderful. Would you mind sharing those two links so that I can attach them in the show notes as well as your website? Send them your way. yeah penguin yeah that would be amazing.
00:49:17
Speaker
Okay, Sally, I usually ask people, is there something I have not asked you that you want to make sure that we share with the audience? If there does happen to be a mother or a father who have lost ah a child any any which way to the opioid um ah you know epidemic, to an overdose, to our suicide epidemic, to an accident, to an illness, any which way, um i want them to know that this is survivable.
00:49:53
Speaker
um I want them to know that it would be very normal if they felt they couldn't survive it. and ah And I want to offer hope. and um And think that might be the only other thing I left out.
00:50:07
Speaker
Yes. Thank you. Thank you for bringing that hope to so many. And for people to read your book, what is the best way for them to find it and the best way to contact you?
Podcast Conclusion and Book Information
00:50:21
Speaker
and go to my website,
00:50:31
Speaker
order Reaching for Beautiful there. And feel free to reach out to me as well. Thank you, Sally. And thank you, Christopher, for also being present in this conversation as we mention his name so often and want to make sure that his light all shows through in this podcast as well.
00:50:50
Speaker
So thank you, Sally. My pleasure. Thank
00:50:57
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
00:51:10
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:51:26
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
00:51:39
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.