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Children's Books to Open Grief Conversations with Diane Namm
41 Plays9 days ago
Diane Namm is a book author with over 65 titles (children's, YA, and non-fiction adult). Her most recent picture book What Happens After? is about losing someone you love, respecting the grieving process, and finding a way forward. Kirkus Reviews describes it as “A simple, emotionally effective exploration of loss.
https://www.instagram.com/dianenamm/
https://www.amazon.com/What-Happens-After-Diane-Namm/dp/B0DNF5988R
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/221620126-what-happens-after
Brief List of Topics in the Podcast:
- Children's Author Perspective: Diane Namm, author of over 65 titles, shares her journey from working as a children's book editor in New York to writing full-time in Los Angeles.
- Dual Audience Approach: Her picture book, What Happens After, is written for the "dual audience response" of both children and adults, serving as a "hug" and a conversation starter.
- The Power of Direct Language: The book intentionally avoids common euphemisms (like "passed on") and uses the clear word "dies" to address the "elephant in the room" directly, providing a clear springboard for discussion.
- Validating Grief: Diane used the writing process as a cathartic experience to validate big feelings for children and emphasize that there is no timeline or deadline for mourning.
- Honoring Legacy: The discussion focuses on how to keep the person in your life by incorporating memories into holidays and routines, stressing the real value in not forgetting them.
- Pre-Loss Reading: A key takeaway is the value of reading the book with loved ones before they die to gather information (like favorite songs or memories) that helps children know how to honor the loved one later.
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To contact Kendra Rinaldi email her at griefgratitudepodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between'
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions. Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone.
00:00:27
Speaker
Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
Purpose and Nature of the Podcast
00:00:47
Speaker
Let's start with a quick disclaimer. This podcast includes personal stories and perspectives on topics like grief, health, and mental wellness. The views expressed by guests are their own and may reflect individual experiences that are not meant as medical advice.
00:01:05
Speaker
As the host, I hold space for diverse voices, but that does not mean I endorse every viewpoint shared. Please listen with care and take what resonates
Guest Introduction: Diane Nam
00:01:15
Speaker
with you. Today I am chatting with author Diane Nam. She is the author of over 65 titles, primarily children's books, young adult books, and nonfiction adult books.
00:01:30
Speaker
And her most recent book is a picture book called What Happens After, and it is about the the love that you feel and, and then just, you know, respecting the grieving process.
Children's Books Resonating with Adults
00:01:44
Speaker
So welcome Diane to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for sharing and for, I got to read your, your book. It's beautiful. It's, it's not, you know, children's books are, go deeper than just for children. a lot it I remember when I would read to my kids some of these books of like, I love you forever and ever and always. Like some of these little things that I would like, remember I said, I'd get all moved and teary eyed. So I think sometimes authors know that the ones reading it are the parents and that they're going to be the ones that are going to be, oh,
00:02:26
Speaker
Without question. i mean, we do know that that we do know that that's how the children first get to hear the books. And so, yes, almost always... We're writing for both both adult and children at the same time.
00:02:40
Speaker
And the children. Yeah. the store Sometimes the pictures are for the kids and sometimes just the verbiage and all that and the story is for the to put pull on your on the parents' heartstrings or ah grandparents or whoever is reading that the book to the kids. Or teachers, right? So many... um people that read.
00:02:59
Speaker
So welcome again, Diane. And I'm looking forward to you like getting to know you and learn about you and how it is that you became an author and choosing to write about grief.
Diane Nam's Career Journey
00:03:11
Speaker
So tell me a bit about you. Where did you grow up and where do you live now? I like to start that way i because I'm just curious. Well, no, you start at the beginning. That's a good story.
00:03:23
Speaker
That's a good story device. um I grew up in New York And I actually started my career in children's book publishing with Grosset and Dunlap as ah as an editorial assistant for this big publisher.
00:03:38
Speaker
And i was a children's book editor for a number of years. um And then I started to do freelance writing while I was working as an editor.
00:03:50
Speaker
And so I went from Grosset and Dunlap to Macmillan to Simon & Schuster. and then worked as an independent book producer for a while.
00:04:01
Speaker
And then when I moved to Los Angeles, I focused primarily on the writing because there were fewer editorial and publishing opportunities out in Los Angeles.
00:04:13
Speaker
And so I started writing full-time, um and that's that's when that's when the full-time writing started in Los Angeles. And laa and how long ago has that been since you've been in Los Angeles? Long time. Long time? yeah Are you an Angelina more than a a New Yorker now? would you or order which Which baseball cap do you wear? like ah The Yankees. Yeah.
00:04:39
Speaker
Always the Yankees. You're always a Yankee. You know what they say. you can say can say I grew up ah actually in Brooklyn, and you can take the girl out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the girl. but yeah Yeah, okay. that that That I can understand. I've lived in this country.
00:04:57
Speaker
I've lived in colomb in the States longer than I lived in Colombia, but I'm always going to be a Colombian. You know, it's like that's just doesn't just what it is.
Passion for Writing Children's Literature
00:05:06
Speaker
like it is. culture yeah it's it is So in this journey then of writing, why why did you gravitate more towards that young adult and children's book writing in your in your life? Like what was it about that particular age group that drew you to writing more for those demographics?
00:05:28
Speaker
Well, because I started out in children's book publishing, um you know, working with the illustrators, working with the writers who I was working with at the time, was always the best part of you know the process.
00:05:42
Speaker
um collaborate It was more like collaborative. Yeah. And also, you know the artists are thiss are really amazing. I mean, you've seen what Laura brought to the party. And I mean, she just did a magnificent job, as did the um professional editor that I had work on the book, Simone Kaplan.
00:06:04
Speaker
and the professional art director that I also had work on the book, Semedar Megid. Both of those women who've been in publishing for a really long time did a fabulous job, and working with Laura was just ideal because she really understood.
00:06:21
Speaker
She understood, and as you can tell, that it's dedicated to both her grandparents, she she understood the underlying emotions of the story.
Writing About Grief and Loss
00:06:31
Speaker
That it's so important. Yeah. Cause it does translate when someone's been through something that you can sense that ah more.
00:06:39
Speaker
Now, what was it about grief that you wanted to write this children's book about or a picture book? I'm going to call it picture book because it's not just for the children. That's also, it's a picture book. I just wanted to say on the side, I'm not comparing myself to him, but Shel Silverstein wrote a book, the giving tree and the giving tree gets me every single time.
00:07:00
Speaker
And I guess that's what I was hoping for in in writing What Happens After, that kind of dual audience response.
00:07:12
Speaker
Because, as I've said a bunch of times, um loss is universal. Grief is very personal. um And it's something that everyone has has to go through when they lose someone.
00:07:27
Speaker
And, um you know, it doesn't have to be just one sort of person. It's not always just a parent or it's not always just a grandparent. There are a multitude of losses that people experience in their lives.
00:07:41
Speaker
And several years back, um we experienced a loss in our family and it was unexpected. And in addition, I've also lost my parents in that space of time.
00:07:57
Speaker
And um in looking for a book that would assist with the process um was kind of hard, especially for the children in our family.
00:08:08
Speaker
And so there were a couple. There's The Invisible String, there's and The Rabbit Listened. um But at the time of my writing, there wasn't a lot else.
00:08:21
Speaker
I think there are more things now. And so I decided that I would write this for the children in our family and for us. And to be honest, since there was such a dearth of ah books on the subject, I just decided that probably mainstream publishers were not going to be interested in it because if they had been, they would have put out books before.
00:08:45
Speaker
So it was my second venture in self-publishing. Most of my books have been done by mainstream publishers, but there are only two that i decided I had to publish myself.
00:08:58
Speaker
So what happens after came out of that, out of that desire to give um the children in our family something that would help them through the process.
Therapeutic Writing and Emotional Connection
00:09:12
Speaker
in that process of writing, like how was it for you as you're writing and choosing the emotions and, and wording that you were gonna do? Did you tap into a lot of it for yourself?
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, almost all the writing I do, You put something of yourself in it depending upon what it is and where you're drawing from. But sure, mean, you know, the loss of my parents was something that I had to deal with.
00:09:44
Speaker
and um
00:09:48
Speaker
And so honestly, the book just came to me from what I felt were the things that I was feeling and that I could sense the children in our family were feeling.
00:10:01
Speaker
and just wanted a way to validate those feelings for them, especially when, you know, it's hard to talk about death with children, and it's hard to talk about those big feelings. And i just wanted everyone who was reading it to understand that they are not alone in those feelings, and that there is nothing wrong with those feelings, and that there is no timeline or deadline for getting over those feelings.
00:10:29
Speaker
But also kind of a way forward so that you can you can keep that person in your life even though they're no longer physically available um to you because they've informed who you are. And you had a relationship with them and it doesn't end just because they're not here anymore because you can still talk to them in your mind, you know, not in a...
00:10:53
Speaker
not more stable a board um and but yeah Or in Or in the creative process, like even like what you did in these aspects of writing a book or just making a drying a painting you know making a painting in honor of them, journaling. you know There's so many ways of communicating and having those emotions out.
00:11:11
Speaker
Or any of those. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say that it's, you know, I personally, when I see a rainbow, I know that means my mother's there because she was very attached to rainbows.
00:11:24
Speaker
Or I hear a certain song on the radio suddenly, and I had been missing my father, and suddenly the right song that he used to sing would come onto the radio. So, I mean, without going into any kind of religious beliefs and without going into any kind of...
00:11:41
Speaker
concrete assessment of what signs are, the signs matter to the person who is left behind. i Absolutely. i I absolutely can agree with that. i I did a little Instagram story once regarding that, regarding the signs, and it doesn't matter whether someone else thinks or not that it is or not.
00:12:01
Speaker
It is what it means to you. And if that And you mentioned here the rainbow, you mentioned the feathers too. Like when I see feathers, I think of my mom. Like there's certain things that just, I relate numbers. There's numbers that I see that relate relate to them. And then I, i her or my sister.
00:12:22
Speaker
So i connected with it. It is how it makes me feel. That is what is valid and important. It's true.
Empathy and Conversations on Grief
00:12:32
Speaker
Yeah. Because that's, you know, that's,
00:12:34
Speaker
That's how people get through the day and they get through the week and the month and the year and then they they can just sort of absorb that person's spirit and and go forward.
00:12:47
Speaker
But no one can tell you how long it will take and nobody knows how long it will take for each individual person. And I just wanted children especially to understand that, that you just, you go on, you do what you do you're entitled to the way you feel.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I think that validation is just so important and hence why I even had this podcast is not, it's it's so that people do not, like I said in the intro, it's so that people don't feel alone in their process. When you're hearing stories of other people that have gone through something, it just makes you feel like, oh, wait, this isn't this is normal. Like, okay, like this is, nor I do quote unquote the normal because i who who defines what normal is, but it is part of of what a lot of people feel in there and their um and their grief. So thank you for for creating this.
00:13:41
Speaker
Now for you, when you were grieving all the, you know, the family loss that you had and your parents, what were some of the tools that you felt helped you in your journey?
00:13:55
Speaker
of grief like in some of your mourning process? um Well, for me, it's always writing ah and and you know reading.
00:14:08
Speaker
That's just how I absorb the world. And so um i didn't do a ton of reading about grief, but I did do a lot of writing about it in terms of biomes my own experience, my ah should my the children in my family's experience. and And then what ultimately came about was what happens after.
00:14:35
Speaker
So I guess I used the book in a way that's slightly different than everyone else because writing it was my processing. Your cathartic kind of experience yeah of being able to to to share it that way.
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah, i I think that everybody has different you know ways in which it works. And usually the things that we gravitate towards normally are the first go-to tool, right? Like if you're a writer, then go to that first. If you if you run when you're one age, then go out for a run. if you do ah it's it's It's, I think, the go-to first. And then you can add other things to your toolbox that can kind of support you and that in the grief process.
00:15:19
Speaker
in ah In grieving, what have you felt that community, the aspect of community, um how has it been ah process in your own journey? And how do you see that reflected in society to the fact of having other people supporting people in their grief?
00:15:41
Speaker
You know, i I refer to what happens after it as the little book that could, because honestly, I I'm glad and and happy that it is having quite the resonance with so many people.
00:15:54
Speaker
It wasn't my intention to have that happen. I really did do it just for my family. But then in in getting so many reviews that and seeing how much it resonated with other people and how much it mattered with librarians and book reviewers and children themselves because i've given it to a number of children ah outside my family who were had experiencing loss of one kind or another.
00:16:24
Speaker
um I got to say, I was i was really surprised, so it and it still surprises me. um I appreciate the fact that everybody does um relate to what's what the book is saying and and and and feel better after reading it.
00:16:46
Speaker
um When I wrote it, I let my um husband and my daughter read it first because they're my sounding boards. And it it made both of them cry, which at first I thought was a bad thing.
00:17:03
Speaker
But my daughter explained to me, no, mom, this is a good crying. And this is what people need when they're missing somebody. I feel like the country at the moment, and maybe it's the world,
00:17:16
Speaker
is is sort of experiencing a second wave of pandemic in that we seem to have a real lack of empathy as an epidemic. And i think that that extends a lot to when people die and they don't want to talk about it and they don't want the children to talk about it and they just want to stop talking about the other person because it makes them feel bad.
00:17:39
Speaker
And I thought this was a way of addressing that lack of empathy because ah empathy is all we have really when someone is is no longer with us. And if you if the people who are left behind can't somehow understand the loss and the feelings that the other people in their lives are having, then that makes you feel even more separate and even more alone.
00:18:07
Speaker
And so i I felt like maybe what the book does is it brings people together in their grief, even though grief is something you do by yourself. Because if you if you allow children to express what they're thinking, and you can use your religious beliefs as a you know as a further discussion, but this is the this is the beginning of that conversation.
00:18:31
Speaker
of addressing the feelings that you don't know what to do with. And you don't want to I don't want anyone to feel ashamed of those feelings um and have a way of somehow understanding that everybody's feeling this way, although they may be at different stages of their process.
00:18:52
Speaker
And you're allowed to talk about it and you're allowed to feel that way. And then whatever else your further spiritual beliefs may be are are something that you can talk about another time. But this is just about feelings.
Developing Empathy and Honoring Memories
00:19:08
Speaker
Hi, I just wanted to take a quick pause and ask that if this episode is speaking to you, I'd love for you to subscribe to my newsletter. Just go to my website, Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between, and you will be receiving some of my newsletters I send every probably couple of weeks.
00:19:30
Speaker
Also, if someone has popped into your mind and you feel that this is something that would resonate with, please send them this episode right now because it may just be what they needed to hear.
00:19:46
Speaker
Now let's get back to the show.
00:19:50
Speaker
i I think that it's very valid what you mentioned regarding the lack lack of empathy or how people react to having conversations that make them uncomfortable. It's like, I think that a lot of times it's not not necessarily that people don't want to be empathetic is that literally they do not know or have the coping skills to know what to do when someone cries. It's like, if I ask her about her mom or if ask her about her death, you know, whatever.
00:20:22
Speaker
Like, what am I going to do if she starts crying? Like, we don't, it's like we don't educate. We're not educated enough as to knowing what to do with people's emotions.
00:20:32
Speaker
And therefore, we just, what you know, prevent it instead. Because we're like, well, I just won't mention anything because if she does and she starts crying, what do I do? Right. And that just makes everybody feel worse.
00:20:45
Speaker
but Right. Right. And it's just kind of Yeah, it's a snowball effect because you you know that there's the elephant in the room that you're not talking about, right? That it's, you know, the the big grief and that you are just dismissing it instead of just addressing it. And so, and and I think a lot of times too, as a person that's grieving,
00:21:09
Speaker
i I feel that when we open up ourselves ah and bring it up in the conversation, it gives them permission to others to ask more questions. I think a lot of times people just do not know, like, ah should I ask or should I not? Like, I wonder, you know, so there there can be a little bit of like the miscommunication as well, too, of society of just not really like knowing the what.
00:21:36
Speaker
And I also had wanted in the book um
00:21:42
Speaker
to provide kind of a way forward in terms of um still having that relationship with the person. So, you know, you honor their birthday by celebrating it.
00:21:56
Speaker
You make something that mattered to them. You sing something that happened to them. I mean, that love that they love. You just, you incorporate what you remember of the things that you did together into your, you know, rituals or your holidays or your behaviors.
00:22:15
Speaker
And i think in doing that, it also, there's a comfort to knowing that that person's not forgotten as long as somebody remembers them.
00:22:24
Speaker
And I think there's a there's a real value in not forgetting. um Even though, you know, over time, and of course, if you're a child, when something happens, then yes, you do. You forget the voice. You forget the the way they look.
00:22:40
Speaker
And that's what pictures are for. um And that's what other people in your family are for, to tell stories about them. And i just I just think that there's a real value in maintaining the information.
00:22:53
Speaker
that that person belonged in your family, that's the way they were, this is what they did, and so and then now you're you, and you do what you do. um I just think that that's a valuable skill to develop and and perpetuate.
00:23:09
Speaker
hu Yeah, and this is and this, again, is a conversation opener. As a parent, like you can start reading this and then that way be able to have these deep conversations. So even having what happens after, even if you have not experienced...
00:23:25
Speaker
a death in your family yet, I think it's so important to have it because I see a lot of parents sometimes struggling to figure out how to bring it up or be truthful about when somebody dies or when their pet dies, they sometimes don't tell their children um the whole truth.
00:23:46
Speaker
So I think that that is important. And I want to also honor the fact that you... start with your first your first sentence is, what happens after someone dies?
00:23:57
Speaker
The fact that you already use very clear verbiage from the beginning at in the book is so important. how how How much, like, either researchers, you talk to therapists or psychologists to know that using the word dying was important for this book rather than when someone passes on, when someone when we lose someone, using a little bit of the of the verbiage that sometimes we use that may confuse a child. um how How was your your process in that and using the actual word?
00:24:29
Speaker
You said it exactly. i I wasn't going to do any kind of euphemistic. Yes. I mean, the whole point is someone died, whether it was your pet, your grandparent, your mother, your father, your sister, your brother,
00:24:47
Speaker
you know they died because they're not here anymore. um And so, you know, when you talk about the euphemisms, the euphemisms have the have the the association with religions.
00:25:02
Speaker
um You can say they passed. they did that far As far you can tell, especially if you're a kid, they're dead. um and and there's no point in pretending otherwise because then you can't process through it.
00:25:19
Speaker
Yeah. As I said, ah if you want to use that as a springboard to then give the religious beliefs that you have um in order to explain things, fine.
00:25:33
Speaker
I just didn't think that was my job. I felt my job was to address the, as you say, elephant in the room directly and then move through it.
00:25:45
Speaker
Thank you. And thank you for that. Because yeah, every therapist that I've had on the podcast that is you know has always said the clarity, especially when talking to kids is so important.
00:25:56
Speaker
They don't comprehend the euphemisms that we use. And like you said, we can share those afterwards if we want, if we want to say transitioned later on you know, like if we want to say, you see the body's not here, but you know, whatever it is you want to do later, based on your own beliefs, that's up to, up to you and your family as what to do. But this is a great springboard for this conversation. So thank you so much again for, for writing this.
00:26:23
Speaker
Diane, always ask before we wrap up, is, is there something i have not asked you that you want to make sure that the listeners take from, from this?
00:26:36
Speaker
I think the point of your saying, you know, that they should have the book available in case as opposed to waiting until it's after,
00:26:48
Speaker
i think that that's true. Originally, I had not thought that. um But life is very uncertain, and um deliveries are not as expected.
Preparing Children for Loss
00:27:02
Speaker
And when you need it, you need it.
00:27:07
Speaker
And i think it is a good idea to have something available in the event, especially if you know that it's coming. um Because i think that if you can start reading it while the person is still alive, that you wanted to remember when they're gone,
00:27:29
Speaker
um they reading it with them is because I've i've heard a number of instances where somebody has read the book with the person the grandparent who was you know who was close to death And, you know, the you get more of information from the person at the time. And they're like, well, what is your favorite song? And what is your favorite food?
00:27:51
Speaker
And which holiday is your favorite holiday? You know what i mean? there's a There's a value. I got chills. I got chills on that. Because, yes, it's so true. Because then it starts that conversation of just adding them to their knowledge, to their little toolbox of knowledge, so that then they know how to honor ah loved one. And I love that.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, and so i I hadn't thought about that, honestly, before. But then, as I said, when I when i gave the book to different families and children that I knew were about to experience a loss...
00:28:25
Speaker
um They told me that that that's how they used it, which quite honestly, i I had not expected, but but it's true. it It gives you an insight into the person um that you may not have had. and And I think it touches them in a way that they know that they'll be remembered and that you're here you think enough of them to ask.
00:28:50
Speaker
um And I think that that makes for a very important moment before you don't have any of those moments anymore. o So that was that was something that I had not expected. And so I'm just sharing it with you because that's something that i'm new I've newly come to because...
00:29:10
Speaker
Somebody said, well, do you think this is a book you should have ahead of time? And in the beginning, I said, well, no, I guess you need to wait until after. But no, I don't think you do. No, no, absolutely.
00:29:21
Speaker
It's because it when we have these conversations, when it's already, I'll give an example. When someone... is already ill. And then just say a parent, an aging parent, they're already ill and you start asking, well, what do you want your funeral to look like? Or as they're aging. And then it's, and there sometimes it's really uncomfortable at that point because it's as if you're saying,
00:29:44
Speaker
well, you are not going to survive this or whatever it is. that that's not That's not the thing is that it's because it's conversations we didn't have when we were not sick, which we, again, these are conversations we should all be having anyway, because the reality is we are all going to die.
00:30:02
Speaker
we just don't know the when and who's going to go first. We don't know that. We don't know who's going to be planning the funeral of who, but if we don't have these conversations with other people,
00:30:14
Speaker
then we don't know. Even a parent reading to their child about this, it's it's also giving hope for the child because our I know that for me as a child, one of my biggest fears was my parents dying, right? Growing up, like that was always something I would think of.
00:30:28
Speaker
But already here, you're already establishing that that connection and that remembrance can continue, correct? So you're already sharing that straight on. So I think it is extremely important to have this because again, if we already can educate ourselves and educate our children about that, it takes a little bit of the, of the sting, of the sting, of the sting away. Not all of it, because we're still going to have all these emotions, but it, it it can, can at least have this con, you know, conversation and have some sense of them ah the, of the hope of the process. So thank you for,
00:31:08
Speaker
for, for sharing this book. Well, thank you for, for being interested in it and for having me on the show. I really appreciate it. Yes. Thank you, Diane.
Book Availability and Podcast Conclusion
00:31:17
Speaker
So Diane, let's share with people where they can buy what happens after what's the best place for them to be able to, to buy it.
00:31:27
Speaker
um Well, you know, ah it's wherever you buy books online. um So I don't like to plug one particular one or another, but but like bookshop.org, Barnes & Noble. I mean, you can order it through any of the online book purchasing. Yeah.
00:31:46
Speaker
it It's printed and distributed by IngramSpark. So if you have an IngramSpark account or you happen to be a ah bookseller, that you can also get your same normal discounts and stuff. So you can order it that way.
00:32:01
Speaker
um ah and Honestly, I think it's also available in a lot of Los Angeles libraries because they informed me that they they purchased a bunch of them for the different libraries. It's available online um as an e-book, and it's also available as an accompanied audible book.
00:32:19
Speaker
Oh, wonderful. friend of mine, ah the actress Catherine Ross, um is the narrative voice of the book, and she does such a beautiful job. I mean, it even...
00:32:31
Speaker
Every time I listen to her, it makes me cry. And then as somebody once said to me, the book is like a hug.
00:32:43
Speaker
And that is just how I meant it to be, is that it's a hug to make you feel minimally better when you're not feeling very well at all. um and And I'm just so grateful to the person who said that because that's really what I meant.
00:33:01
Speaker
um But you can get it anywhere online. And And eventually they'll send it to you. thank yeah Thank you. Thank you, Diane, for this hug that you gave the world with your book.
00:33:16
Speaker
So thank you again. This was Diane Nam and you can find her also on her website and on her links and I'll make sure to put those below. So thank you, Diane. Thank you so much, honey.
00:33:36
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
00:33:49
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:34:04
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
00:34:17
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.