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Episode 17: Suicide (Part 3) with Guests Dean and Jill Lambert
46 Plays24 days ago
On part 3 of our suicide and depression series, we are honored to have our first guests, Dean and Jill Lambert, parents of Tyler's friend Corporal Adam Lambert. This episode covers the impact suicide can have on family and friends, how individuals process grief, recognizing warning signs, and how we can make an impact in the fight against suicide.
Please check out the Daniel J. Harvey and Adam Lambert Improving Servicemember Transition to Reduce Veteran Suicide Act and contact your local congressman in support of this vastly important bill. Daniel J. Harvey and Adam Lambert Improving Servicemember Transition to Reduce Veteran Suicide Act - Congressman Zach Nunn
Good Morning, Gents! This is a podcast hosted by four Marine Corps veterans with the goal of uplifting men to be the best version of ourselves. In an age of high rates of suicide and depression, especially in the male population, we are taking a stand. This is a place that will cover all of the challenges and realities that we face in the current world, and how we can break down barriers to betterment for ourselves, our families, and the world.
A tragic suicide of our friend sparked an idea and experiment for us as we rekindled our friendship: A group text where we say "Good Morning" to each other every single day, and continue the conversation about what is going on in our lives, be there for one another, and spread positivity and reassurance. Men bear so much weight of responsibility in society that it is hard for men to have an outlet to express themselves. This has attributed to the vast number of suicides in the male population. We aim to cut those numbers down with this podcast. Between the discussions our hosts will talk about, and the guests we bring onto the show, we invite you to join us on this journey towards self-betterment for all.
Email: Goodmorninggentspd@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:08
Speaker
Good morning, gents.
00:00:13
Speaker
Good morning, gents. got Tyler and Brandon here this fine evening for you folks. I know it's not morning again, but hey, today we've got a pretty
Jill and Dean's Story and Adam's Legacy
00:00:21
Speaker
heavy episode. We've got Jill and Dean Lambert, the parents of Corporal Adam Lambert, who I believe served with you, Tyler.
00:00:28
Speaker
If you can, give us a little bit on the episode. Yeah, so this is part three of our ah depression suicide series, which we knew was going to be our first guests. um The very gracious Jill and Dean Lambert the parents of friend of mine who, unfortunately, we lost a suicide in 2015, which ah happened in July back then. So almost coming up on 10 years, which is crazy to think.
00:00:55
Speaker
But this is a, you know, it's a really heavy topic and episode and not one that I wanted to not take seriously. So we really took our time with this one and made sure that we got it right.
00:01:07
Speaker
And I'm just so gracious to them to being a part of this and being our first guest. Very much appreciated. and we thank you very much. Yeah. So we're just going to hop right into the interview and we hope you guys are able to take something away from it.
00:01:23
Speaker
Enjoy.
Adam's Empathy and Military Life
00:01:24
Speaker
All right, so I am here with our first official guests of the podcast, Dean and Jill Lambert. Welcome on the podcast, guys. Thank you. I feel like the the bow of a ship getting a bottle crushed on us.
00:01:39
Speaker
Our maiden, your maiden voyage. Hopefully it's not the Titanic. It is not the Titanic. All right. That's good to hear. So you're obviously the parents of a friend of mine, Adam Lambert, who I served in the Marine Corps with.
00:01:55
Speaker
Adam is somebody who I served with in combat logistics battalion for obviously during our Afghanistan deployment in 2012. So, first, obviously, I just want to thank you both for being on here. This is not an easy topic or something that, you know, I take lightly.
00:02:15
Speaker
um And I know it's, you know, something near and dear to your heart and for all the the the toughness that this topic can bring. So I really appreciate you guys being on here. um I just wanted to start, if you could just tell me a little bit about the kind of person Adam was.
00:02:31
Speaker
Do you want to start? I'll start. Well, um he was the type of person who didn't want anybody to have a bad day. He'd walk in the room, light up the room.
00:02:43
Speaker
I remember him always joking around. um We kind of a funny thing that happened. i don't know if I want to tell that story on the Sunday. i have no idea what you're talking about. On Sunday when he was little boy? Sure call.
00:02:56
Speaker
and No, you don't want to talk about that when he came in the room and said hello, hugging people. Hello, hugging people. Yeah.
00:03:05
Speaker
Yeah, so it's good thing you're such a great film producer because that can be edited right now. um Yeah, Adam typically would not want anybody to have a bad day. If they were having a bad day, he would joke around with them, pull them aside. He was always confidential with his friends. Even growing up as a very young age, I remember his friends coming to him with you know, issues they had in their life. And he just was always a good listener and always seemed to want to help.
00:03:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He was a pretty naturally empathetic kid, but um he was also feisty. ah You know, he wasn't averse to getting in trouble and getting others in trouble with him, but he knew he he wouldn't force somebody to do get in trouble with him.
00:03:51
Speaker
ah If they wanted to drink a bottle of stuff that had everything mixed into it for a bunch of money while they were in Afghanistan, well, then he was game and And whoever was out, you know, he he didn't care. You know, ah he never exercised or, you know, he so he he never really. um I think he all kinds of people.
00:04:08
Speaker
He was one of those folks that understood what it was like to be an outcast. um And he was also one of those people that um that understood what it was like to be kind of within the with the in crew.
00:04:22
Speaker
But he wasn't snobbish about it i mean, just all the cards and and letters that we got after he had died. from all the way from a full bird colonel that um that he served under to his, you know, ah his fellow ah platoon mates, you know, they all really said the same thing.
00:04:43
Speaker
And I know they didn't get in a room and and and agree to write write it. Everything was from the heart. And ah even the sergeants admitted that he was of great comfort to them.
00:04:57
Speaker
There were a lot of people who who confided in him. i don't think I i could have handled that burden. ah like he did. You know, he just was very at ease with it. People seemed very, very at ease to talk to him.
00:05:09
Speaker
So um I took him on a motorcycle ride one time with a crew I belong to. And obviously there were several veterans and three Marine veterans that were on the group. And he didn't hang out with us quasi younger guys. You know, um they he hung out with the the old Marines and the guys who were in the military.
00:05:34
Speaker
They immediately welcomed him in. And It was like watching him, you know, talking to people he'd known forever. And some ah some of them he didn't, although he had the Marine Corps ah background in common.
00:05:46
Speaker
But that's, you know, he was just, that's the kind of guy he was. And so we we said ah during his funeral and in his obituary that this was somebody who brought, he was an empath.
00:05:58
Speaker
Everybody's, I mean, he just felt and gave everything he had, you know, in the 24 he lived. four years he lived And eventually, it you know, all this fuel burned up, you know, and that's that's the time he was supposed to be here. And that's what he was supposed to do.
00:06:13
Speaker
You know? Yeah.
Challenges in Civilian Transition
00:06:15
Speaker
I remember when I first really like met him, I had joined the heavy equipment guys, which was a part of.
00:06:24
Speaker
um And I you know, I was an armorer. I didn't have any kind of connections with even anybody in my motor transportation company. ah that we were all part of and I got assigned to those guys and you you guys obviously know how like tight knit they were.
00:06:40
Speaker
oh yeah. And I'm, you know, I was an outsider and I felt very awkward coming into that whole group. And I remember when we were in pre-deployment training in California,
00:06:54
Speaker
I just remember being very intimidated by him. He just had such a strong personality and I was very shy. And, you know, i felt like he had a very strong presence.
00:07:06
Speaker
um And during that pre-deployment training, I got extremely sick. Oh. and was coughing my lungs out. And I remember being so embarrassed in the middle of the night. We were in our hooch and it was freezing cold and I was just coughing up a lung and I felt so embarrassed and awful that I was probably keeping all these guys awake coughing all night.
00:07:31
Speaker
And Adam came up to me in the middle of the night and I just remember thinking to myself like, oh man, he's about to like you know, scream at me or treat me like crap.
00:07:43
Speaker
And instead he, he gave me some meds and he comforted me and he just, he just pulled me aside and tried to help me. And that changed my, my entire view. And I was just so grateful for him, like welcoming me in that way and not,
00:07:58
Speaker
alienating me or making me feel bad that I was sick. Like he he took care of me and I was just so grateful for him. And I really appreciated him from now on. And that's a great story. So nice of you to share that. And the funny thing is, is that I think that, you know,
00:08:14
Speaker
His empathy came from things he experienced or things that he could just innately understand ah when he was in ah finishing up, when he was doing the, ah what's the, um then but did you go to MCRD San Diego or did you go to?
00:08:30
Speaker
Paris Island. So the last is a Reaper when they had to climb up the Reaper. Oh, OK. He was sick as a dog ah during that whole thing. So he I think he knows how it was to be hacking up a lung and to feel like other people are either thinking you're going to slow them down or that you're going you know, whatever people think, you know, people, you can't control that. But I think that that, you know, that experience that he had in boot, uh, probably informed him a little bit, um, uh, to make him be empathetic to your situation. Right. In addition to, Hey, this is a great opportunity to meet some dude, you know, i can't sleep anyway, so let's go over there. you know Right.
00:09:13
Speaker
that's cool. That's a cool story. Yeah. It's something I always appreciated. And, uh, you know, but especially after he died, I thought back to that and just thought like, wow, what, what an amazing guy to be and the Marines is such a, it can be a very cruel place.
00:09:29
Speaker
And you're filled with this extreme macho manly viewpoint that really looks down on people being sick or injured.
00:09:41
Speaker
And I just always remember feeling so grateful that he, you know, took care of me in that moment when I felt so like, low already and you know and soon after that I got to know those guys and I felt like a like an adopted child almost it was uh it was really something special so on this podcast I uh me and the guys have previously talked about the transition from getting out of the military um when did Adam start having problems upon getting out and like sort of walk me through that timeline
00:10:17
Speaker
oh Well, I think, you know, first of all, he um when he got back to the States from Afghanistan, he was taken out of his unit and he was put he went to 29 Palms, which he absolutely abhorred for a lot of reasons.
00:10:30
Speaker
First of all, there's a lot of people there that are trainers. They don't, they didn't deploy. And so anybody who did deploy, it's a, there's a lot of conflict. um You know, the guys who didn't deploy want to deploy.
00:10:45
Speaker
And then they also felt like the guys who did deploy felt that they were more of a Marine because the guy, so there was, you probably have heard these stories or whatever. So it was a very difficult situation for him to be in.
00:10:57
Speaker
Not only that, but you know, lot of guys, when they, when they um are in the military, they always think about getting out, even though it was the best and the worst days of their life. And then as soon as they're out, they're like, man, and they do nothing but miss and not just miss, but really feel like they still need to do their duty, even though they did it.
00:11:19
Speaker
And yeah, I think when Adam came back home and it was real, you know, that's when he started. um And again, you couldn't tell except for he was a pretty angry dude and they've had him on Ambien.
00:11:35
Speaker
And course, he drank a lot of beers and um lot of his friends here weren't in the military, so they really didn't understand him. And so when he was having his his moments, as a lot of military folks will understand,
00:11:50
Speaker
um There wasn't really a lot of there weren't really a lot of people who could relate. um For me, my whole family served in the Marine or in the military, you know, and so I understood from a standpoint of my dad was in Vietnam, my brother was a Navy SEAL, and he was over in the first Gulf War.
00:12:07
Speaker
And i also wrote the Patriot Guard writers. So mi mean, I'm immersed in the, in the, in the military culture, as much as one who didn't serve can be in. Right. And so Adam, of course, did not want people to think there was a problem with him. And so he hit it and he tried to snap out of things, but I mean, it was, I don't know, was it right? oh I mean, it was about three months after he was out and then he didn't super motivated to get a job, but he needed to get a job. He just didn't seem like it was gonna be worth anything you know you could just tell right it wasn't as special to him so um then then he did um uh he got a really good job with um a company that but it took him away from home and we think back of
00:12:56
Speaker
Well, that was kind of, he was kind of alone out on the road. Staying in hotels by himself. he was he He was working for a company that repairs and inspects utility poles. Right.
00:13:06
Speaker
So there he is, the Wichita lineman. He's not climbing up, but, you know, he's making sure they're not going to break off at the ground. But the thing is that he had his own, his his house was his truck that they gave him. And when he stayed overnight, he was in hotels in, you know, little rural towns. So it was just him and the TV and beer and whatever else, you know, so... And he did that for a few months and decided he didn't want to do that anymore. so um he left that job.
00:13:33
Speaker
He was, he, you know, he had plenty of room at our house to, to live. And so he got another job. It wasn't, I don't think he thought it was a very respectful job. It was a retail job.
00:13:46
Speaker
um But of course, everybody that he worked with just loved him. i mean, he just, helped them. He overworked, you know, even though but he he couldn't understand work ethic of a lot of young folks, it bothered him.
00:14:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's, that's really, I think when he got that, that job, uh, at the sporting goods store is when he really started getting annoyed and, you know, um people complaining about things that you know that are first world issues right um even at the store uh people half-assing you know what they're supposed to do um whether it's you know making sure things are right on the shelf or helping a person that has a you know a question and to most people it's obvious you know you just walk right past it and you know him being very helpful it just everything started to really annoy him that of the pettiness and um
00:14:42
Speaker
And again, you know, he wasn't doing something that he felt had value or added value. Right. And, uh, you know, after a few months it started really great on him. And, uh, and then, you know, so then he'd have some, you know, he just have some anger issue. We're not equipped to, to necessarily be the best.
00:15:02
Speaker
ah fit and I'm sure missed a lot of cues. Oh yeah. We could have, you know, looking back, you know, like he was very quiet towards the end of his life for a couple of weeks. He had just lost ah one of your brothers and we didn't.
00:15:20
Speaker
Yeah. Dan har Harvey. I did. well I did want to ask about that. and got it I wanted to know if, if he said anything that, So Dan Harvey was another Marine that served with us in Afghanistan and he died of suicide weeks prior.
00:15:35
Speaker
Yes. I wanted to know if there was anything that Adam had said about Dan's death. Yes. He um was really, of course, shocked.
00:15:46
Speaker
And just that doesn't sound right. How? ah No, not him. And um he was fixated on the method in which,
00:15:58
Speaker
he chose to leave. Um, and it just, he just, he analyzed the heck out of it. Analyzed it. He shared with a friend, like he was doing a forensic sort of examination, like but he did this and he did this and he timed it like this. And yeah he was kind of, um, uh, obsessed over, uh,
00:16:20
Speaker
the process Instead of being in denial, which he was right at first, he was actually um investigating and trying to solve something. um And along the way, you know, maybe he came to a conclusion that, man, he was pretty smart the way he did it, you know.
00:16:39
Speaker
um I don't know. It was just ah instead of he did the total opposite of of burying it. He became obsessed with, you know, with with what he did. um But on the other hand, ah it seemed like it was a real innocent exploration and something that you would think is one of the stages of grief where trying you're trying to make sense of it.
00:17:02
Speaker
As opposed to I'm trying to ah adapt his strategy and tactics to ah ah plan that I may be thinking about. You know, that's something I don't know. i don't think.
00:17:14
Speaker
Look, Adam took me out to coffee after he graduated from high school and and we just were hanging out and.
Mental Health and Social Influences
00:17:20
Speaker
remember this dad? Well, guess what? It really did happen. Remember when this happened, this, the, uh, they called the police dogs in there and they said they found something in my locker. And, and, uh, I said they didn't.
00:17:32
Speaker
Well, it really, they did. And so I'm like, man, was I, question was I a stupid dad? But I think it was because we knew that he, we, we knew his, his, uh, his weaknesses and stuff as he was growing up. We we knew he was a little bit, uh,
00:17:47
Speaker
attention deficit or whatever, you know, and we knew that he, uh, got bored of things very quickly. Um, but, uh, he was so earnest and, and helpful. And afraid I just didn't, we just didn't think that he could really, hide something like this from us.
00:18:05
Speaker
Uh, but he, he, um, you know, uh, I think the other thing I will say ah is that as much as I think social media is amazing for bringing people together. I mean, our relationship, Tyler, other between the three of us has been all virtual until couple weeks ago when we met you in person. And we felt like we were meeting somebody we've known for a long time. yeah On the other hand, um and this is something I think that that that can cut come of good and something I hope they add to the training in this bill that we're doing with the TAPS program is I think there are some things that that ah people who are separating from the military have to understand about social media. And that is while.
00:18:45
Speaker
all of the Till Valhalla's and all of the celebrations on social media of life when somebody dies, whether it's um KIA or, you know, ah by by suicide or they get sick, whatever it is, um the celebrations online.
00:19:01
Speaker
ah I think sometimes if you see these spurts, like there were three or four people after Adam, in addition to the one he knew and probably more before Dan Harvey.
00:19:12
Speaker
And it's the epidemic, I think, is sometimes spurred on by these by these um bursts of social media that sometimes give desperate people permission to believe that this is a good and noble way to go.
00:19:26
Speaker
Right. You know what I'm saying? it It, you know, who wouldn't want to be celebrated till Valhalla? Who wouldn't want to have the ultimate, you know, warrior death? It's a good day to die sort of thing.
00:19:37
Speaker
And what they don't realize, again, we're not equipped. And that is the reason why we want this built on that. there's a transition that happens after all the military, you are trained to be what is honorable when you get in, right.
00:19:55
Speaker
And when you get out, it's like how you, you got, you just, you just go back to civilian life and nobody understands and, and the world has changed while you've been in and in this regimen.
00:20:06
Speaker
And, and my main message to those who have a burden of their own that, Maybe have gone through some things or are right now going through some things.
00:20:18
Speaker
It's not the answer. It's not the answer. You know what happens? It's invoking all your pain to your family, to your friends, to your loved ones. And it is, it destroys you.
00:20:31
Speaker
And I know that he would have never wanted that for anyone. So the one thing, the one thing that, that I've learned, um, from the, uh, being close to, ah the soldier suicide,
00:20:45
Speaker
um and And any suicide, death by suicide. um when And I'm not trying to disrespect what Jill said, because it's absolutely right. you know um the the The burden that they leave is unfathomable. And as much love as a person shows while they're alive, they don't really...
00:21:02
Speaker
understand But you got to be careful when we say things like this and people who are listening to this podcast are going to be some pretty astute people who understand suicide better than us and some ah some counselors that may. And you got to be careful when you say things like that, not to make this about the family that's left behind. Right.
00:21:20
Speaker
The focus really is on the person who is in the situation where they feel that they don't want to be here anymore and and and truly believe that they're done with the world and the world is done with them.
00:21:33
Speaker
And so um I almost think that ah military people um dying by suicide, you know, it's easier for them than civilians to do it because. Um, because they've faced, you know, end of life every day in situations and, um, they understand code and things like that. And sometimes, you know, when you feel like you have your fuel is burned up and you have nothing else to offer, then what you are is you're a burden.
00:21:59
Speaker
You're you're you're a tank with unspent fuel and you need to gain altitude. So jettison that tank. And that's that's the way I think a lot of these these ah young men and even older men and women who commit suicide or die by suicide. They feel like they need to be jettisoned and it's their duty to, you know, cut the dead weight.
00:22:19
Speaker
That's that's one of the reasons why why people um do that is be they they feel like it's honorable. um So we we have to understand that. You know, we have to understand that they they do believe their time on Earth is over, um you know.
00:22:35
Speaker
So I don't know. That's that's kind of the way you asked the question. The question was, when how long did we notice? It was a few months. But then after that, it was a rapid decline. Right. Yeah, I remember for me, um my transition, it started getting rough a few months after I got out.
00:22:52
Speaker
And it was like a really rough winter um waiting to get into college and then move on with my life. And I think So many people, when they're going through this, the transition, when they're getting out and they take those, the ah TAPS classes, they're they're so focused on just got to get through this bullshit course just to get out.
00:23:15
Speaker
yeah And they're so ready just to escape the military life. And then they realize that they don't have any sort of idea of what they want to do with their life. They don't have a plan. They don't have goals.
00:23:27
Speaker
And as people in the military, that's what we lived by. We lived by having goals and a mission. And you're suddenly thrust back into civilian world with no mission, no goals, no objective.
00:23:39
Speaker
And you feel like your life could be meaningless. And, you know, I remember for me, when I started going through my heavy depressive period, um And my family doesn't, you know, no discredit to them. They just don't really seem to understand mental health the way i hoped.
00:23:55
Speaker
um When I was displaying warning signs, they basically just dismissed it. um You know, my family members would say, like, what do you have to be depressed about? You have such a great life, all this stuff. And then when I started, like,
00:24:09
Speaker
even teasing any sort of hint towards suicide, it immediately became, don't you dare do anything that would make us, you know, regret what you did. Like it it's it suddenly became about them and the impact it would have on them instead of focusing on why do I feel this way and how can we work on making it better financially.
00:24:32
Speaker
right It's just like, like you guys brought up great points. And I think it really is important to to stop suicide, especially within the veteran community.
00:24:43
Speaker
It's not so much about showing the impact. Like, I think the impact on the family is super important. But I don't want people to only think that they have to live.
00:24:53
Speaker
for their family members. Like, you know, you you got a guy with a child and they say, you have to live for your kid. And it's
Finding Purpose Post-Service
00:25:00
Speaker
like, I think they need to live for themselves. Like they have to learn to love and live their own life and be able to find a way to live for themselves. Cause that's, what's most important.
00:25:11
Speaker
Well, that's what makes you a better person. Again, if you have a family, especially ah a child at home or children, um you know, in order for you to be the best that you can be for that child.
00:25:25
Speaker
And I'm not saying modeling the right behavior and things like that. I'm just saying just being there right for the basic things as they are very dependent on you when they're young. And for the basic things for, you know, just picking them up from school or being there, you know, you don't even have to be a good role model for them. But being there is very, very important.
00:25:44
Speaker
And you can't be there if your head is at a burn pit. Right. you know, right. Or if your head is with ah a bunk mate from bootcamp who you went to Afghanistan with, who just died two weeks ago.
00:25:59
Speaker
and you know what, if I, if the only way I could be with that buddy is by being joining him in death, then that's what it's going to be. So that's, that's the thing I think people need to understand is they've got to find their own value and their own purpose.
00:26:13
Speaker
Everybody needs to feel like they have a purpose in life. um And, um, And I think that's what TAPS should focus on. It's it's not going through the motions and making sure that ah people go through the program and and do the course, you know, like security training when you're at work so you don't open up a ah bad email, right? ah um it's it's It's about um the military having some way to check in with their people, no person left behind, three months after, six months after, a year after. And and those people
00:26:48
Speaker
And the military being held accountable for how many veterans, how many people who have retired, retired to don't forget retirees. Oh, yeah. Or retired after four or five times going overseas.
00:27:00
Speaker
And they're 37 years old or 45 years old. You know, so they've retired. They had a good material military career. Yay, I'm out. I got my my my pension and everything else. But yeah.
00:27:11
Speaker
Being retired and just getting out at four after four years or eight years, it's it's the same thing. You're leaving behind a life. And I don't know, I don't care how many years. ah My dad's 85 years old and the best time of his he regrets terribly retiring from the military after 20 years. In fact, he was still working for the military as a government contractor until he was 83 because he couldn't get enough of it.
00:27:33
Speaker
You know, no matter how he how much he complained. So I think you're absolutely right. The point that you made that the focus should be on that um service person um to make sure that they ah find their value, find their new mission.
00:27:49
Speaker
And so if they are feeling helpless, like they're just not, they're not going to ask for help. Let's just put it that way. Because arson is not on. earth So if he could have been equipped with, like Dean said, military personnel that would, you know, some kind of a program where They're all checking in, or maybe it's all your buddies.
00:28:10
Speaker
You know, you, you are, you you are, it's mandatory. You have to check in You have to go through your checklist with each other and you do it on a regular basis ah for the family. Maybe they need to have some kind of a,
00:28:25
Speaker
ah connection so that they know if they notice something instead of blowing it off, they need to get a hold of like, you know, we'd get a hold of you, for example. Hey, I think somebody needs to reach out.
00:28:37
Speaker
So a lot more can be done. That's that's for sure. Yeah, I think definitely having a support system is humongous and having those fellow military members to be there for you as well.
00:28:50
Speaker
It's, you know, it's extremely tough getting out and then your friends are in, you know, a bunch of different states or countries. But even like the one good thing about technology, um especially I've learned since the passing of my last friend who committed suicide back in September,
00:29:07
Speaker
ah A group of four of us friends reconnected after 10 years, and we've been texting each other every single day without fail. And that has massively in improved my mental health.
00:29:21
Speaker
And even if I'm going through something and I'm dealing with something rough. I have that safe place that I can talk to them about it and I know that they understand me and they are willing to help me.
00:29:33
Speaker
And I feel comfortable actually talking to them about it rather than going to a family member or a friend who didn't serve. You know, these guys get me and I'm able to work out those issues with knowing that they have my back.
00:29:48
Speaker
And that speaks volumes like it it goes a long way. And as far as the the goal setting, a couple things. For me, I feel like I reach my most depressed point when i am not working on my filmmaking because that's my passion.
00:30:06
Speaker
And if I'm not doing anything creative to feed that, I start to get down and I start to feel like I'm losing my purpose in life because it's That's what I feel like my purpose is now.
00:30:16
Speaker
And so I look for ways to work on that. And that will suddenly start to bring me out a little bit. And I encourage anybody who's going through something, you have to consistently work towards a goal, or you will start to feel like life can be mundane, and you don't have a ah purpose.
00:30:40
Speaker
you You need to find your place in the world outside of the military because one day, whether it's after four years or 20 years, you have to get out eventually and you're going to be here for X amount of years afterwards. You need to have something else that is going to hold you down.
00:30:56
Speaker
And as far as like overcoming my depression and suicidal ideations, what helped me get through it was I knew I had to bear witness for for the friends that I lost.
00:31:11
Speaker
And I used my filmmaking to raise awareness for veteran suicide. And I chose to work with a veteran organization that helps stop veteran suicide.
00:31:23
Speaker
And I feel like it's almost like I have to live out of spite. Like even when I feel suicidal, I cannot be one of those numbers because what would that say so all the others who are looking and reaching for hope who are going through this, if they see a a person who's like a beacon in the veteran community who's trying to raise awareness for this stuff, if I suddenly give up.
00:31:50
Speaker
So I have to live for them and for that purpose that will be with me for the rest of my life. That that became a part of me after my friends started dying because of this.
00:32:01
Speaker
So I took that as part of my identity. And I feel like there... That's one of the perfect ways that a veteran can still serve after getting out is serve your fellow veterans.
00:32:13
Speaker
Find a way to help others who get out and are looking for some sort of purpose. Well, it's ah it's a 360-degree value proposition you know when you do that. First of all, you learn a lot about yourself in that I'm not alone in how I feel and what I think and what I've been through. That's number one.
00:32:33
Speaker
And then the whole the part about your ability to... um share with them and give them that same gift, but also help keep them sane. And basically what I would say i would is that when you're in the military, you have routine and discipline and core values,
00:32:54
Speaker
And in a common enemy, when you're deployed, especially, or when you're training, when you come out, you've got to find a way to get routine. That's the number one thing you've got to get into a rhythm and that is not ah adverse to yourself. Like I'm going to get up every morning and I'm going to start out with a beer. That's a routine, not a good one.
00:33:14
Speaker
ah Or I'm going to see how much I can't eat today before I pass out. You know, i think getting into a routine, whether it's volunteering, whether it's some kind of a job that you know is not going to provide the same kind of value was as being in your in your military team and just understanding that just staying in a routine helps.
00:33:36
Speaker
And the other thing is, is that I think that you can be a good counselor and we cannot We cannot highlight enough the importance of these veteran ah help groups that you're talking about. And hopefully throughout your podcast lifetime, you're able to find all of them around the country and help promote them because they do an amazing job. And most of them are volunteer organizations.
00:34:01
Speaker
They're either unfunded or underfunded, and they can't help enough people or they can't find enough people to help, you know, because there's you need to go find people who are hurting. And there's lot questions you can ask. There's a lot of probing you can do with people who are in trouble that probably know one or more people who are also in trouble who are part of a tax group.
00:34:20
Speaker
Right. So so I think that that's that we we really have to pay tribute to them. But but finding routine, finding and even if your mission in life, like you said, is to not be another one of the 22 a day.
00:34:36
Speaker
And just like people who are alcoholics, their job is to take every single day and be sober every single day, one day at a time. And that's that's, I think, you know, a lot of the essence of what I hope can come out of both counseling, but also what the military can do ah by enhancing its TAPS program with some suicide prevention and suicide awareness. I think both need to help, need to happen um because a lot of military guys coming out I'm sure they've heard them and they've experienced, but once you're out, that stuff seems to become a distant fantasy or maybe that's what, what it was when I was in, but it's not really that way when I'm out.
00:35:16
Speaker
And when it becomes a reality, you either should be equipped to help your buddies who are facing it, or you should be equipped to recognize it in yourself. And hopefully, hopefully there are there'll be programs that will help make that a reality. And it's, you know, the suicide rate for veterans is not coming down.
00:35:36
Speaker
mean, it is coming down. It is coming down a little bit, but it's not coming down nearly as fast. It's still sort of oscillating between a little bit more and a lot more. It's not going down to less than or the same as.
00:35:49
Speaker
Right. And it needs to come down to none, but we need to see a trend of less than or the same as. And um ah it's not not there yet. And we've been you know involved in this for this year will be 10 years. Yeah. So- you know yeah so Can you tell me a little bit about what kind of warning signs did you see or miss from Adam? I think it's important for listeners or, you know, family members of people who were in the military and getting out.
00:36:20
Speaker
What What can you tell us about what type of behavior did Adam have before it happened? I'm going to do a hard stop so you can edit. I'm going to turn a couple of lights on sun's going down and we're getting. okay so Yeah.
00:36:33
Speaker
Oh, so a technicality. yeah We also have Brandon here who's part of the podcast. He just joined us. Hi, man. I'm sorry. I'm late. that look better Yeah, I think so.
00:36:44
Speaker
Is that better? The lights. Yeah, it looks great. Yeah, just want to make sure. We painted this little bit ago. No, we didn't. Just kidding. Just for the background. All right. so so your question the question was, what kinds of signs did we, in retrospect, miss, you were about to answer? Yeah, and I, you know, of course, i you can't help but rethink everything. Times were days before, like what we're we doing, what was he doing? I do remember him
Recognizing and Addressing Warning Signs
00:37:10
Speaker
being quiet and he's not quiet.
00:37:13
Speaker
he's joking and stuff. And so, you know, didn't think a lot of it, but now I, I look back and I, and I realized he was withdrawing. And I do know from friends that he had, that he hadn't spoken to them for a couple weeks.
00:37:30
Speaker
And also his very best friend, he hadn't reached out or, and he hadn't reached out to his marine buddies that he often did and they had been calling him and he didn't respond but we didn't know that did they reach out to you guys at all no no no and again you know we all miss it you know we just miss um you could blow it off as you know they're busy and don't want to talk and that kind of thing so anyway and then then then the other thing was um
00:38:02
Speaker
I know it bothers Dean a lot. um You know, our last night together, we know it was July 4th. We had all been together and Adam decided it was time to go to bed because he had to get up really early for work. No, no, no, no.
00:38:15
Speaker
I was the one who got up and went to bed. at We were watching a Adam Sandler movie, which Adam knows the dialogue to all these movies. oh yeah Everybody we knew who served with him, just like, that's right. He, he quote ruined everything. remember that.
00:38:31
Speaker
So, it just and comedy, you know, standup comedy gigs and things like that. He knew it by heart. So we were watching one of the Adam Sandler movies and it was late and I was tired. And I said, all right, that's, he was, I just had kind of enough of it. Cause I, I kept saying, Adam, stop, Adam, stop, you know, and I wasn't angry. It was just, you know, yeah just joshing him and and so I said, all right, I'm going to bed. I'm tired.
00:38:51
Speaker
And so I got up, I said, all right, have fun, turn the lights off. And I started walking away and he said, love you, dad. And, I gave a wave like this, you know, because I thought he was being i thought he was being, ah you know, coy.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I tell everybody I should have turned around. i should have turned around and looked at him because he's never he never says that. If I turned around, would I have caught something on his face?
00:39:17
Speaker
Would I have said, I'll stay up with you? Because his his plan of action happened after everybody went to bed. You know, he had it planned down to the last man. He was But he did that with each of us. He also came over to me, gave me a big hug. Yeah. i love So that was that was a big miss. And his little sister was there. Yeah.
00:39:36
Speaker
She had a boyfriend at the time there. And he was just telling her goodnight, gave her a big hug. Yeah. And then we realize, of course, the next day that was him saying that was his way.
00:39:46
Speaker
I mean, he left a diary with a note to each of us, you know, and I mean, he planned this whole thing. um But I will tell you, there is one thing that I think is important to talk about that um we didn't know until after he had died.
00:40:00
Speaker
And I don't know how many people know this. ah Some I think some people know this. But when um Adam had a situation when he was 29 Palms where um it caused his discharge status to change. He was already EAS um and um it was a month before and something happened that that caused him to get a NJT, I think it was called, right?
00:40:26
Speaker
No, NJP. NJP. Other than honorable? No, no, no, no, no. It was that was the non-judicial punishment. Non-judicial punishment. Yes, yes. So anyway, so um so ah after he died, we needed to get his DD to 14.
00:40:41
Speaker
um And because we were going to have him buried in the Veterans Cemetery in Iowa. And they wanted to arrange for the Marine Corps Honor Guard. And the day before we buried Adam, the Marine got Marine Corps honor guard was told to stand down because he was other than honorably discharged.
00:41:01
Speaker
We didn't know it. And um he wasn't dishonorably discharged. ah We quickly called his rank. His rank was brought down from corporal to Lance corporal, which we didn't know.
00:41:13
Speaker
So um Adam was carrying a very, very great burden. that he didn't talk to anybody about, which which I think prevented him from getting um but veterans benefit benefits to go. he was going to be a firefighter EMT. He got the book. He was going to train. i knew a guy who was a captain at one of the ah fire departments, and he was like, yes, sir, we'll take him any day of the week.
00:41:40
Speaker
um And just these things that he was going to do and then he didn't do. And We didn't know why we just, you know, it was one, it was a point of frustration for us because ah everybody, everybody we knew said, you know, Adam, oh yeah, we love him. We know him. We'll help him out. Well, we can, he can do this. In fact, you know, he can skip a couple of things because of blah, blah, blah, you know, he could have been making 35 bucks an an hour working on with greater with graders, because I know he trained on those, you know, and he just, he didn't, you know,
00:42:13
Speaker
And so after he died, we found out a bit about the NJP and this situation. So we did everything. We scrambled, did everything we could to try and figure out what the heck happened.
00:42:24
Speaker
And long story short, there were a lot of eyes, not eyes, and T's not dotted and crossed. And he was made an example of, we found out, not only from ah our congressman who looked into it, um they also misdiagnosed him on the on his paperwork. You know, he had, when we when I looked at all his medical records, he he had failed multiple tests that showed that he had PTSD before he even exited.
00:42:50
Speaker
In fact, he shouldn't have been granted an EAS um ah without medical. Yeah. because of all of these things. We got a letter from the Department of Navy where there were several people who had situations like Adam in the Navy and the Marine Corps that were that fell into some issue but when they got out and they failed to diagnose PTSD.
00:43:12
Speaker
And so they said that they you know, we could go show up in Washington, D.C. This is when we lived in Iowa and and go through the process of trying to get his discharge status change to general or honorable.
00:43:26
Speaker
I mean, he had a field promotion for crying out loud. He was, yeah yet he had, he had a, he had, he was decorated, you know, um there was also something that happened in Afghanistan that I don't know, Tyler, you might know about it, but where he was with an army peer and Adam would volunteer for these things that were outside his, uh, MOS. Mm-hmm.
00:43:44
Speaker
ah We heard, you know, when they needed to go out in a armed ah vehicle and do something where they're looking at roads and things like that, he would be like the guy who said, yeah, I'll go. Yeah. So he went he was so he was on I guess he was on a 50 cow with an army person. And I guess the army person talks to the whoever tells them that they can engage an enemy and whatever. and And apparently they saw somebody who looked like they were burying something in a road and pulling a wire out or doing something. And they were given permission to engage, Adam engaged, you know, killed the enemy.
00:44:18
Speaker
And then when they got back, ah they were questioning who gave the or who gave the okay. Again, I'm talking way arm's length. So anybody who's in the military is thinking I'm not explaining this right. Forgive me.
00:44:30
Speaker
But um so instead of him coming away with accolades um and there I guess you there's some credit or there's something some recognition for combat engagement or something like that.
00:44:43
Speaker
He was instead, you know, that was the first Ching in his armor. This was right after he made corporal in the field. And um that also weighed heavily on him, really heavily, because he didn't like to do things wrong.
00:44:55
Speaker
You know, maybe he'll get it. Maybe he'll fail a test in high school. Maybe he'll have to try once or twice to qualify for for, ah you know, marksmanship or something like that. But you don't have to tell him something twice.
00:45:08
Speaker
Right. And he knew what he heard. He knew he did the right thing. And he knew somebody was trying to cover it for somebody. um And so these are the things that we found out after the fact. And I guess the reason I'm telling this story is because for any counselors who may be listening, I don't know if they explore these kinds of things for parents or any friends, you know, there's a lot of things that happen even with your closest people that maybe you don't know about. and um And certainly none of us are equipped to know how to surface those, nor should we, because when they do surface, what was I going to tell him
00:45:44
Speaker
You know, what was i going to say? Well, um did you call this person? I would act like I was interrogating him all of a sudden and being his dag and I can hear it. No, no, this is what happened and you can't do anything about it. You know, you know, I'm. I remember that when we that we were kind of like, oh, my God, sense now yeah why he was so upset when we would. encourage him to go take a class at a college is because he didn't didn't have his GI Bill, didn't have his benefits and stuff.
00:46:12
Speaker
Right. So, so I think that the adjudication process, the, the diagnosis while in the military for PTSD, all of these things, there are, there are, um, background military reasons why, um, they don't diagnose or they make it hard, you know,
00:46:31
Speaker
don'll They'll give a dude a bunch of money ah because one of his ears, he can't hear well out of his ear because he was around live fire without earplugs. And that that's really easy for them to, to yeah we know a lot of his friends have medical medical benefits, money every month yeah because they have a disability.
00:46:50
Speaker
But mental health, ah forget about it. Mental health, the military does not want to admit that it's putting people who have a fragile mental health. And why is that?
00:47:01
Speaker
Because trained killers are being released upon the populace. And if they have a mental problem, then they're going to be responsible. Or if something happens, they're going to, you know. Right. That's and I'm not again, I don't want to but besmirch the military, but it's I think this is part of the reality um of why ah mental health.
00:47:19
Speaker
And there's a lot of things that they recognize in the military these days that drive me nuts. Yet mental health is, you know, especially for for somebody who's been in combat.
00:47:29
Speaker
So. Anyway, to answer your story your answer your question in a long way, you know, there were a lot of ah signs that we missed while he was alive. And um there were certainly things we discovered upon his death um that, frankly, some of his friends were aware of that happened, but they didn't know what the result of it was. They just knew that, you know, he was out and that he had EAS and he didn't talk about And that's again, Adam is not the type of guy who's going to have a meeting after the meeting. He's not going to talk about it when it's done. It was his thing. It was nobody
Community Support and Healing
00:48:00
Speaker
else's thing to worry about. And so for all they knew, he got out, went home.
00:48:04
Speaker
Right. After after it happened in the the days, weeks, months, years, it's almost been 10 now since it happened um as his parents. And obviously nothing will ever make it better.
00:48:21
Speaker
But what helped you in the the days, weeks, months, years for coming to terms and moving forward? Important was that just like you, we did get close to all of his buddies and they did check on us multiple times, came out to see us.
00:48:40
Speaker
ah You know, our close family, of course, close friends. um We just had to find a way to keep going. Well, I mean, the the cool thing that happened was when he had his funeral, um some of his friends from the East Coast and the West Coast, they all piled into cars and drove 20 hours to get to his funeral, first of all.
00:49:02
Speaker
The other thing is, I remember um we we didn't have first of all, the manner in which he died was not necessarily suitable for an open casket. But many of his marine buddies wanted to see him.
00:49:16
Speaker
They they were just like we have to. And he he wanted to be cremated. But um but we we we had a casket. The we were in the funeral business. We weren't funeral directors, but we worked in the funeral business. And so the the funeral director that we went to they pulled a guy out of retirement who was the best embalmer and restorative arts person they had spent nine, 10 hours.
00:49:38
Speaker
We had to get a ah ah lid for Adam um because we couldn't find his white one. He was in his dress uniform. And um you know, he didn't look like Adam, but boy, all his friends that came in, they were so grateful. And and honestly, I looked at him too.
00:49:55
Speaker
And um so what i reason why I'm telling you that is because they, their, their desire to get together and have their own viewing and doing that allowed us to do it as well.
00:50:08
Speaker
And so I'm grateful for that. And then we had a big party at our house the night that he was buried and, It was like, um and you'll relate to this, Tyler. It's like if, you know, it's like watching your favorite show or your favorite movie and winning a backstage pass, a lottery to go to the cast party.
00:50:28
Speaker
It was like the cast part, the cast from the movie that was his life for the last three, four years was in my house. And all the people that he talked about that we didn't know any of their first names.
00:50:40
Speaker
It was all... They'd tell a story and we're like, oh, you're the one. Yeah, it was all Yvarsky and it was all last names or nicknames. That drank all the the yucky stuff. Yeah, yeah. Because it was bet. Or I have a tattoo on my wrist that if you look at it upside down, it looks like something that it shouldn't look like that I found that I learned during a business meeting one time. And Adam told everybody about that. And so they asked me to see that tattoo, you know.
00:51:06
Speaker
So we all knew each other. And or there were things that guys talked about gang and women, men and women, both. You know, I keep in touch with all everybody who was deployed with them.
00:51:17
Speaker
I won't mention names here, but I think, Tyler, you probably know some of them. yeah But all the things that they talked about when they were in Afghanistan or Okinawa, like. um being the best man at a wedding when they finally get married or something like that, I actually got to do a couple of things that Adam would have done.
00:51:36
Speaker
For example, one of his um ah good friends got married and her father, you know, she was and estranged from her father and stepfather.
00:51:46
Speaker
She didn't have anybody to walk her down the aisle. So they asked me to do. And at the reception, they had the table set for him with, you know, a place for him. I mean, you know, all of these things, um you know, helped us to cope. The other thing is, is our congressman at the time knew Adam and we didn't know he knew Adam.
00:52:05
Speaker
ah Adam used to hang around ah for the time that he lived with us for that last year at the American Legion, which was very close to where we live. And so we got to know our congressman. And when Adam died, our congressman reached out to us. He was at the funeral.
00:52:19
Speaker
The congressman's father was at the funeral. And he knew that we were having trouble getting him to the cemetery. He was okay in the cemetery. It's just a matter of the honors. So anyway, so Congressman Young not only ah helped us secure a place for him at the cemetery, um right but he also ah gave a eulogy on the floor of Congress that and flew a flag over the Capitol. And so that's part of the 113th Congress. We actually have a congressional record of it.
00:52:49
Speaker
That was pretty cool. And then the other thing that helped us cope was the just the outpouring of other um veterans who like weren't even affiliated with Adam or his friends.
00:53:01
Speaker
And um we were going to Adam and I were going to go on a motorcycle ride when Rick Perry was was running for president. And Joni Ernst, who was the senator from Iowa at the time, um ah she rode with us and Adam couldn't make it because he had to work at that sporting goods store.
00:53:17
Speaker
i Anyway, I got on a mailing list and the day before we buried Adam, um I got a call from them saying, hey, Rick Perry is going to be in town. He's going to be holding a town meeting at the grocery store at the meeting room.
00:53:30
Speaker
um We know that you're a supporter. Would you like to come? And I said, well, um I don't know, what's he talking about? And they said, he's talking about PTSD and veterans suicide. And I'm like, well, it's funny you should call because this is what happened.
00:53:43
Speaker
And they said, oh my gosh, obviously if you can't come, you know, whatever. And I was mowing the lawn that morning, Sunday morning. Anyway, I don't remember the time. And, and I called up the woman who called me and said, Hey, is it okay if I come, you know, on short notice? And she said, yeah, cause I just was sick of being at home. You're just trying to So I went to this thing and I'm sitting at the table waiting for the speakers and stuff.
00:54:03
Speaker
And ah feel a hand on my shoulder and a guy said, hey, you're Mr. Lambert, right? And it was Governor Perry. And he talked to me for a half hour, was late starting a thing. And he said, look, he said, i would be honored if I can go to his burial.
00:54:16
Speaker
um Tomorrow, I promise it'll just me be me and my secretary, no media. i just want to i just want to go. I was planning on visiting the cemetery anyway. It was a newer one. Sure enough, he showed up. He showed up before us because I was riding with the Patriot Guard that that that ah escorted him.
00:54:33
Speaker
He was there talking to all of our family and just having a chat and and making everybody feel comfortable and just being And he was there. We've got pictures of him there at the at the funeral. So all of these sort of things, and you know, I hope little things like this happen to to any family of a veteran who passes away um where they can find solace in these things. Those are the things that really helped us ah move forward.
00:54:59
Speaker
And it's just not it's not just military. um The place I bought my motorcycles from for years, The owner there was one of the tightest businessmen I know. He wouldn't give anybody time off. No, you know, whatever.
00:55:11
Speaker
um He closed the shop ah twice that day to allow half of his team to come at, you know, in shifts to walk through the the line to see Jill and I. So there's a lot of things. And I think what families need to do is understand how to take those kinds of gestures to help you with the initial stage one rocket that launches you into life without your right loved one. Because everyone, you know, goes into a place of they want to help and they don't they don't know what to do.
00:55:41
Speaker
So they just they just try, you know, they bring and just let them. Yeah. You you just got to. And that's that's another thing that's important is that um you also don't know sometimes how to accept that kind of stuff.
00:55:54
Speaker
One of our friends ah said that they they're oh, one of Adam's friends did a GoFundMe for the funeral. And she had served with him. And um I told my friend, ah good friend of ours, um I'm just going to donate that money. We can pay for a funeral.
00:56:12
Speaker
I don't want to, you know, and i don't think Adam would have won it. And my friend said, you have to accept that money. That is their way of showing respect. Right. Memorializing their friend. It is going to help them with closure.
00:56:26
Speaker
Yeah. So we're like, okay, cool. And we just, we took what we would have spent and donated it anyway to the Wooda Warriors Foundation. So, but that I would say for those people left behind, it's really, really important to allow people to help and allow people to do what they feel they need.
00:56:43
Speaker
Because even though he wasn't your kid, um They have a big hole in their life too. And so just accept it and know that you're not less than for accepting it it or you're not dishonoring your loved one for accepting it.
00:56:55
Speaker
Just let it be. and And use that again as fuel to launch yourself into the rest of your life without this individual. Because then when you look back on it, you're like, that's really cool.
00:57:08
Speaker
If you don't have that, then you're it's like you're not eating or drinking. you know You're starving yourself. Yeah, I think you brought up some really great points there. Things that I wouldn't have even thought about.
00:57:18
Speaker
So thank you for that. um if What would you want a message to be for somebody who might be going through this, whether it's ah a family member, a friend?
00:57:30
Speaker
what What sort of guidance or hope can you give them? And and the breing just through your experience that, yeah, message. Somebody was going through it. Yeah. um It's a good question.
00:57:41
Speaker
Just talk, talk to, you know, find out who their close people are in their lives and encourage them to talk to them. And if they don't feel like talking to them, give me the information and allow me to, or whoever, you know, someone to ah reach out to them.
00:58:00
Speaker
um You know, everybody is going through something. There's always You know people are always going through things and you just never know what people are going through. So talk.
00:58:11
Speaker
I think my advice, my, the thing that I would say that I have said is a line from a movie that I can't remember what movie it was. Um, there actually, there are two, uh, there are two, one of my mantras comes from the movie, a Bronx tale, the saddest, the saddest thing in life is wasted talent.
00:58:30
Speaker
And I have that on my chest. Um, It's partially to remind me my ah as well. and Not that I'm an egoist, but you know I got some something I can offer. But I would tell somebody this, that although the world, see a lot of people say the world is a better place with you in it.
00:58:47
Speaker
i I sometimes feel that right now, present tense is not the best thing to focus on for somebody who wants to be out of here. What I would say world ah world can be a better place or will be a better place with you in it.
00:59:01
Speaker
What we have to find out is, you know, what is it? What can we chase? Let's, you know, let's make it a mission. Let's find what you love to do, find who you love, find your why, and let's use it to make the world a better place. And if nothing else,
00:59:18
Speaker
making it a better place for the people who are around you because they like you here. We just, they just, they just understand that you're sad and that you are tired of it and nobody knows how to help you right now, but let's, what can we do to make the world a better place with you in it and make you a part of that?
00:59:35
Speaker
Always talk future tense. Um, because right now the present tense is, you know, a lot of times the mind's made up. It's just opportunity, ye you know? Um,
00:59:48
Speaker
And again, professional
Navigating Benefits and Support Systems
00:59:50
Speaker
help finding, you know, these, uh, uh, organizations that understand veterans that you may not need to have a clean DD 214 to get help from.
01:00:01
Speaker
Um, there's, there's always help that you can have that is, that doesn't cost you anything that's private. And if nothing else, most of them are started by people who were, who have the same present that you have right now, yeah which is like, I'm done.
01:00:17
Speaker
That is a great point, too, as far as ah the whole situation with discharges go. So like with the VA not really giving care to people who didn't get out honorably, um it is important for veterans and family members to know that there is outside organizations that are willing to help, whether it is with their mental health or with employment or housing.
01:00:42
Speaker
um This is all stuff that, for example, um the organization that I work for does for veterans in our area. And there are plenty of organizations that do this all around the country.
01:00:53
Speaker
You just have to do a quick Google search and find what's in your area. And if you truly can't find anything, man, i'll I'll sit down with you and I'll look through my contacts and whatever I can do to help too.
01:01:06
Speaker
And there's there's plenty of other people in the veteran community who are willing to do that too. So if if you're struggling or your family member's struggling or your friends, look through those resources because they are out there.
01:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, the other thing I would say, Tyler, is um is ah in Adam's situation, it's clear that there was a ah haste, a hasty judgment process for him. He was already getting out. And so he was pretty much had one foot out the door anyway.
01:01:33
Speaker
um We talked to a captain in the Navy that. um ah I hate to say, spoke to me under the conditions I wouldn't, you know, but there was some, ah you know, some acknowledgement that there is there was haste and there was a period of haste at that base at that time where they were doing some of these things because they were having problems on the base with with ah personnel.
01:01:57
Speaker
What I would say is there are organizations as well that will do pro bono work to at least look into the adjudication process, and the discharge ah status to just double, triple check that that it was done appropriately or that something can't be just rectified.
01:02:15
Speaker
And again, does it doesn't mean that you're going to go from other than honorable or dishonorable to honorable, but you can get benefits when you have a general discharge. yeah Yes, you can. so and that's all i would have rather adam worked hard for his rank i would have rather just been able to put corporal on his gravestone because that's what he was then have his discharge changed we were we wanted to do both And it just went on for so long. And the the tough part about a congressperson is they all have their there. They want to help you. They're only there for two or four years. Right. And there are a lot of other ah priorities that come up.
01:02:49
Speaker
So it's important that you look outside the military for military lawyers, people who specialize in these kinds of things. If you really truly want to, especially for somebody who needs benefits, if you've got a family and you can't access benefits after spending four years or eight years in the military, after being gone for a couple of years or whatever, that's a recipe for disaster for the entire family, much less the the service person.
01:03:13
Speaker
Right. Very good points. um Can you tell me a little bit about that this bill that's been introduced? Yeah. So the Daniel J. Harvey and Adam J. Daniel.
01:03:25
Speaker
I don't know if it's if it's is it a J. adam or I know it's Adam J. Lambert, of course, but his P. Daniel Patrick Harvey, I think. I think you're right. and Yeah. Harvey. Yeah. Adam Lambert. um ah Transition assistance bill.
01:03:40
Speaker
um It passed unanimously through the House last year. However, the Senate didn't take it up last year. Therefore, it starts over. So if you, Tyler, I think I sent you the, if I haven't, I'll send it to you and you can see what the new filing is and maybe put a link to it. So,
01:04:00
Speaker
People can talk to their ah their elected officials to ask them to make sure that they renew their support for the bill, especially in the Senate. um ah Congressman Nunn from Iowa, who is a a veteran, he's still in the he still flies with the Air Force personnel.
01:04:18
Speaker
reserve. um He has taken it up again with some other representatives um and and he feels it has a really good chance to pass both this time under the current administration.
01:04:31
Speaker
um But we just need all the help we can get. So I would say that um if if Tyler, if your team can, you know, put up the link to the information on the bill. Absolutely. contact your representative just to make sure they're on board.
01:04:46
Speaker
It's not a, it's not a ah party lines thing. It passed unanimously, which ah it doesn't happen very often. So we know it has a lot of support. It just needs to be ah addressed, voted on and passed.
Improving Transition Programs
01:05:00
Speaker
And basically it, it, it mandates um ah that the taps program that exists as extended to suicide awareness and prevention.
01:05:11
Speaker
And um that doesn't mean that they have the the ah the information. They haven't created the courses or whatever. It just mandates that the gut that the military creates something yeah that addresses it.
01:05:26
Speaker
And that's going to be a whole other thing. So you know it's not going to happen instantaneously. It'll get passed and then it'll take some time for ah them to do the due diligence to make sure they're putting the right things in place, which, as we talked about earlier, would include the military checking in, ah whether it's through recruitment offices or whoever handles discharges or retirements, that they mandatory check in at periods of three, six and 12 months ah to just make sure things are going well.
01:05:55
Speaker
Yeah. A few years after. Yeah. yeah Five years. i When when I first heard about the bill being introduced, I was so happy and relieved that this had come up because this is something that I've long thought about as far as something to help make the the transition better. Like you need we need massive change in those ah separation classes.
01:06:22
Speaker
Yes. Like it does not go over much of anything regarding mental health and the struggle that you're going to face as a veteran upon getting out. It's basically just showing, hey, here's how you make a resume to get a job. Here's how you apply for school.
01:06:38
Speaker
Good luck. Bye. Check it off. Check check yeah the boxes. I mean, universities, actually you universities monetize their job placement rate. They, they recruit students based on the same thing with, uh, uh, athletic programs, you know, we'll get you to the NFL, you know, and,
01:06:58
Speaker
It just boggles the mind. I think you you would you'd have to agree. It boggles the mind that the military has has does not, especially today, have a program where they're held accountable to ensuring that they're that no military service person is left behind after they get out.
01:07:17
Speaker
And i will tell you this, it comes from many, many years, obviously, of World War II veterans serving for four years, being away from their families, you know, seeing a kid not be born, leaving right before they're born and not meeting them until they're four years old, and then going back to their jobs.
01:07:34
Speaker
You know, and, you know, not talking about it, even though we know that those people that worked in the mines, on assembly lines, in banks, airline pilots are dealing with something.
01:07:48
Speaker
Yeah. But never talked about it. um And. ah It's interesting what's happening now where people are talking about it. It's good that people are talking about it. I have experience working with some people from the IDF. yeah Now, that's compulsory service.
01:08:03
Speaker
Everybody and their great-grandfather or mother served in the IDF because there's nothing before grandfather or mother because the country's new. um And so it's just tradition.
01:08:13
Speaker
That's what you do. You go serve. And sometimes there's war. Sometimes there's not. But you're always in peril in Israel. Right. And there is a higher incidence.
01:08:26
Speaker
Incidents. of mental health issues by IDF people now. And part of it is just because we're recognizing it. It's like autism or anything else. Once you call attention to it, once you understand it, then it can be surfaced and dealt with the way it needs to be dealt with. And you don't have people holding things in until the you know end of their life, looking back at how their life might've been different if they were able to have some kind of a release for what they're feeling.
01:08:53
Speaker
you know We have an opportunity now to do that. And the military, the government needs to, like I'm not big on big government. I'm not big on government handouts. But when you can when people come in to serve at this level and put their lives on the line, you need to take care of them for the rest of their lives.
01:09:09
Speaker
I agree. Four years is a lifetime, especially you if you've been to combat. Hell, one year is enough if you've been to combat. That's a whole lifetime that other people who aren't in the military can never experience.
01:09:22
Speaker
You age. So like it's just, it's, you know, we really need to work on getting, getting the government and the military to recognize the, the, the, the care that is needed by every person who comes out of the military. mean You know, I, I'll go ahead, Jill.
01:09:37
Speaker
was just going say they've taken care of us to take care. Yeah, absolutely. I personally believe there needs to be a six month reintegration process after we get out. Yeah, it's just to get us used to civilian life again.
01:09:49
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, if nothing else, um you know, ah Adam was a combat engineer um and he had a lot of training.
01:10:02
Speaker
And I think just making sure, just like if you go on unemployment, you have to prove you're looking for a job. So what you do is you make them check in at job fairs for whatever is close to your MOS or if you're like Tyler, you had some sort of, uh, some sort of a, an ability or a talent before you went in or an interest, then you make sure that, okay, if you're not going to go into something where you have a skills and it's cool, you could go into something you have interest, but we, we need proof that you are actually, ah using that as something that is going to, um, fulfill you and keep you able to feed yourself more than just a few but more than just beers every night.
01:10:40
Speaker
yeah I agree with you. i agree with you 100%. There needs to be accountability. And guess what? Your whole time in the military, you're being held accountable. So it's not like you're not used to it. nothing new. You might hate it, but it's nothing new. Yeah, yeah that's true.
01:10:54
Speaker
yeah I just, I feel like enough attention has finally been captured between the VA, a the military, from what I'm seeing online, and society is starting to all collectively pay attention to this.
01:11:11
Speaker
And I feel like finally the tide is turning. I do have some hope, whether we will see a complete reduction or even a little bit. it I feel hopeful for some sort of progress in this.
01:11:25
Speaker
And I do believe it is a fixable epidemic that we we are able to call these numbers and really work on this as a society. Yeah.
01:11:36
Speaker
Well, any any field medic will tell you that One of the things you do when there's a wound is to keep direct pressure on that wound. And otherwise you bleed out. And I really think that's a great analogy for the veteran suicide, what's going on.
01:11:50
Speaker
We have to keep direct pressure on it or you will have you will lose a lot of young men and women to suicide. You will bleed out. And what happens when that happens is the entire idea of us having a military service becomes more difficult to fulfill, which is necessary for our protection because people will not want to join or people who shouldn't join will join.
01:12:15
Speaker
um And the other thing I would say, too, is we have to be careful how we take up this cause. We don't want to um do it in such a way that the wrong people start doing a narrative that people shouldn't join the military because they come out fractured, hurt and useless.
01:12:36
Speaker
hmm. um because that is also something that people will latch onto and it will hurt the ability for the military to recruit and to get good people and to do something that's an amazing job.
01:12:49
Speaker
I don't have a lot of regrets, but the only regret I have in life, I'm going to go to my grave with this, is my dad, the decorated military Air Force guy who did you know went to Vietnam twice, told me I shouldn't go in the military because I couldn't run laps in in football and I'm a little bit um defiant. And I'm like, man, I wish he wouldn't have told me that. Cause I, I, I think it would have done me good. I think, you know, I think that the government should make attractive two-year compulsory service in the military or some sort of public service, A, to help you grow up ah and B, to really understand what it's like to be a citizen of this country and meet different people than you'll ever meet in your life.
01:13:29
Speaker
That's the other thing. It's that, you know, Jill had never met a Jewish person growing up until she met me. She comes from a smaller town in Nebraska, and there's not a lot of diversity there, right? Yeah. And as soon as she learned that it wasn't a cult, you know, we got hitched.
01:13:45
Speaker
So... What I'm saying is is that you need all of the things that the military military exposes you to, even how to handle ah your amygdala, your fight or flight, to make you a better human being and understand certain things.
01:14:01
Speaker
and Unfortunately, in Adam's case, a lot of the stuff that people complain about today, he got very frustrated about because he had seen some things that pale in comparison to somebody cutting in front of them on the highway or, you know, not being able to find something on a shelf when it's on sale. and Yep.
01:14:17
Speaker
Just trivial, trivial nonsense that doesn't really matter. Yep. So to close this out, is there anything that you want, ah just a message or even just a, how would you want the world to remember Adam and, you know, pay tribute?
01:14:34
Speaker
Would be, don't give, keep going. We know you want to be here We want to figure out what it is. Like Dean said, what is your why? What is your why? And let's do it together and let's get people surrounding you to get you to go forward.
01:14:48
Speaker
ah For me, it's it's um you know it's it's it's the mantras. It's you know the saddest thing in life is wasted talent. And um and the better the the world will be better and can be better with you in it.
01:15:02
Speaker
And I think that um people join the military for a lot of reasons, but they do get core values, whichever branch you're in, you get vision, you get you understand that there's a purpose for you out there.
01:15:15
Speaker
And so let's find that new purpose. And for some people that could mean, you know, if, ah if it's possible going back into the military, a lot of people, I know the worst thing they could, they did was get out.
01:15:27
Speaker
And their biggest burden is that they're not with, they're not serving. And but for those people who are ah not so fractured that they, that they still can have purpose in the military and that will fuel them, then fine.
01:15:39
Speaker
If not, then, There's so many other things and you have to have the right combination of help from your friends, from your family, and most of all, from somebody who's professional.
01:15:51
Speaker
um Because you don't know what questions to ask to help yourself. You don't know what you don't know. You just know that you don't know anymore. Right? Yeah.
01:16:01
Speaker
So you got to find you got to find some professional help. And there's nothing wrong with that. um That's the flashlight. That's the night goggles. The vision that you can see is that that professional help that'll that'll that'll definitely ask you the right questions and and challenge you to find the why.
01:16:19
Speaker
If your buddy is checking in on you, you be straight with them and say, yep, you're right. I need, I think I need some help. Or her. Or her. We know our friend whose initials are HS.
01:16:31
Speaker
I think it's still an S. Maybe she changed the last part, but she kicked Adam's butt a couple of times ah by text. I remember. So, ah you know, use those people, let them beat you up, you know, so.
01:16:44
Speaker
Love that. Well, Jill, Dean, thank you both from the bottom of my heart. I really appreciate you guys coming on and you know sharing your story and you know talking about Adam and just just everything regarding this. I know it's a very tough subject, but I just appreciate everything you guys have done. So thank you.
01:17:03
Speaker
Thank you. Glad to be here. Thank you. Man, that was a little. Yeah, that was it was heavy hitting, man. um You know, i've I've only met them in person once, which was actually weeks ago. They were kind enough to stop by hometown because they they moved closer over this way and were coming back from a conference and reached out to me to let me know that they were going to be passing through. So I was really happy to sit down and talk with them and finally get to meet them because it feels like I've known them forever now.
01:17:36
Speaker
but just getting to ask them, you know, some of these tough questions and hear how they've dealt with it and their responses. It's just to see the pain in their eyes and know just it's an unfathomable, unfathomable thing to go through as a parent to your child and just the strength and graciousness that they embody.
01:17:56
Speaker
i just I'm so appreciative of them. And i really think that this This interview can give a lot of people hope and inspiration and taking away something positive from it. It definitely gave me on how, yeah, I haven't lost a ah child of it aside, but losing a friend, it gave me some insight on how I also to help myself move to accept the kindness from others, just
Closing Reflections
01:18:20
Speaker
let it happen. That really helped Me too, man.
01:18:22
Speaker
So I don't even know what to say other than that. It's just like, I'm, I was just trying to, you know, hold it in and be professional as a ah podcast host and as a friend to them and just be as respectful as possible. But I'm, I'm really glad that, you know, this whole thing happened.
01:18:39
Speaker
For sure. You did a good job. Thank you. Thanks. It was not easy. Hopefully our next guest will be about something more, um, Just lighter in ah in a way, or at least a subject because three, three full episodes of suicide and depression can, can weigh us down.
01:18:55
Speaker
Oh yeah. We're going on a much lighter route. Spring is upon us, man. The flowers are blooming. We got to, we got some, some good topics coming up. I'm looking forward to it, but thanks for hopping on and ah for our listeners. Thank you so much for listening. We really hope ah you enjoyed this one.
01:19:10
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you for being here and listening. Yeah. So we'll see you next time. Take care guys. Later.