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Episode 15: Depression to Suicide (Part 2)
28 Plays1 month ago
On this episode, we dive into part 2 of the depression & suicide series of episodes.
Good Morning, Gents! This is a podcast hosted by four Marine Corps veterans with the goal of uplifting men to be the best version of ourselves. In an age of high rates of suicide and depression, especially in the male population, we are taking a stand. This is a place that will cover all of the challenges and realities that we face in the current world, and how we can break down barriers to betterment for ourselves, our families, and the world.
A tragic suicide of our friend sparked an idea and experiment for us as we rekindled our friendship: A group text where we say "Good Morning" to each other every single day, and continue the conversation about what is going on in our lives, be there for one another, and spread positivity and reassurance. Men bear so much weight of responsibility in society that it is hard for men to have an outlet to express themselves. This has attributed to the vast number of suicides in the male population. We aim to cut those numbers down with this podcast. Between the discussions our hosts will talk about, and the guests we bring onto the show, we invite you to join us on this journey towards self-betterment for all.
Email: Goodmorninggentspd@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction and morning show memories
00:00:07
Speaker
Good morning, gents.
00:00:13
Speaker
morning jet we are back with another episode hope you guys are doing well on your week you guys will listening to this probably monday or tuesday we're sitting here on ah on a sunday night so not quite morning but a you know we're go to roll with it because that's that's what we're called but We do it every morning. We're a morning show.
00:00:35
Speaker
We're a fake morning show. We are, aren't we? ah a Very few of these actually get done in the morning. very few. o Remember the last time we did one in the morning and we were all just fucking zombies. Like, wow, that was low energy.
00:00:52
Speaker
but Or like i end up having my kids and it turns into a fucking disaster. Yeah, they were a wild. would like to try that again, though.
Suicide rates among men and societal pressures
00:01:00
Speaker
Yeah. the morning yeah i love doing it in the morning in retire full energy so we are unfortunately missing one of our own today we are missing caleb and hopefully he might pop in later we'll see he's uh he's running a little late but today we got we got a heavy one uh we're doing part two of the depression suicide series
00:01:26
Speaker
So we're digging deep on suicide today and really just all facets ah going along with suicide. um You know, why do people do it? Why do we feel this way?
00:01:37
Speaker
And how do we stop it? How do we overcome it? So first, I want to ask you guys, how many people do you know in your personal lives that have committed suicide? Does a failed attempt count?
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, suicide attempts can count, too. I probably know two. a work with them and then know of people like that I went to school with or served with.
00:02:07
Speaker
Probably bumps that number up to five or six. andda and's That's probably where I'm at right now because I know like about people that I know of that I've actually shared conversation with few that are closer than others. Yeah.
00:02:20
Speaker
yeah My number from the military alone, four four friends ah from the Marine Corps committed suicide. Another probably three attempted suicide.
00:02:33
Speaker
And then i know people outside of the military who I would say, me think. I know of at least another three more who committed suicide outside of the military who never served.
00:02:45
Speaker
So this is not inherent to the military, but it is... It is an epidemic for sure, especially in the male population. where we see over 80% of suicides are ah from men, which, I mean, that's a crazy statistic when you think about it.
00:03:04
Speaker
When you look at how men and women are basically 50-50 in the world, but men are killing themselves at that much of a higher rate than women, what do you think the reasoning is? Like, if you had to pin down a few points, what could you say? Pressure.
00:03:22
Speaker
what What is it ah about men in society that makes them be the ones to kill themselves and not women? Pressure. Isolation. Combine those two and you get a fucking atomic bomb for just disaster.
00:03:34
Speaker
Go ahead and elaborate on that. Which one? Both of them.
Contradicting societal expectations on men
00:03:38
Speaker
I'll hit um pressure. i think I think the pressure on, I think people have, you know, 50, 60 years ago, was still an issue, right? But 50, 60 years ago, the man had a role and that role was to go to work, provide for his family, right? was, they say simpler times. I don't know. I didn't live back then, but it seems like the role and identities were stronger, right?
00:04:02
Speaker
That was your role. Provide for the family. um Go and provide. and that that was That was the man's role. Fix what needed to be fixed.
00:04:13
Speaker
Be a handyman. I mean, it was more clear to find, and I think, In today's day and age, I think there is this unforeseen, never-ending pressure to live up to these monumentous expectations that people have created.
00:04:30
Speaker
Oh, to be a good man, you have to be stoic. To be a good man, you have to not show emotion. To be a good man, you have to be vulnerable. To be a good man, you have to share in everything with your partner.
00:04:43
Speaker
To be a good man, you have to lead your power partner. How contradictive is everything a man hears? Instead of just being like, hey, to be a good man, you need to do what you're confident in.
00:04:56
Speaker
You need to find out who you are and you need to just be you and be confident. And if someone doesn't love you for being you, fuck that person. and b eight Learn to walk away. And as men, walking it away is hard at times because when you walk away, you almost feel like a failure because you're you're you're cutting that out of your life because you couldn't fix it you couldn't hold it So I think all these contradicting pressures put on men that are just fucking blasted everywhere, all over social media and all these fucking people.
00:05:27
Speaker
You got one guy that's a social media hit, and he's staying. Stay stoic. Keep your – keep your vulnerabilities to yourself between you and your boys. The other ones, like you need to be vulnerable with your spouse or you, you need to share like what it, there's too much fucking, nobody can agree and no one shuts their fucking mouth.
00:05:45
Speaker
How about just do what you're comfortable with? Whatever you and your partner have come with the agreement, do that. How about just, instead of focusing on what the rest of the world, focus on you. Just do what you're comfortable with. What, what gives you confidence?
00:05:59
Speaker
And I think the monumentous, Never ending. What do they call that? A false peak. It's almost like a false peak. Like you feel like you're finally getting there. And then there's some other expectation out left field where you're like, holy shit, I just learned to do this. Now I got to go fucking do this.
00:06:16
Speaker
Like I got kids to raise. I can't be learning 15,000 different other things to make you happy. I got kids to raise. I got a math. And like, I think, and because of that, because men are sacrificial, we put ourselves to the side.
00:06:29
Speaker
And when you put yourself to the side, that creates the isolation that Brandon's talking about. So I think, I think mine leads into where Brandon's headed with it. Couldn't, couldn't agree more with you there, Matt. I mean, soon as you start, as soon as you can't reach that, that, that false summit or that false peak that you're talking about, man, it's like,
Isolation and mental health issues
00:06:51
Speaker
why try?
00:06:51
Speaker
you know I'm just going to fail you again. I'm just going to do this again. so or the complete opposite. You dig in even harder. Yeah. And then it's like nobody else is going to help me get there. So you're going to go on your own. You're going isolate yourself from the world until you don't look like that failure. You don't look like that. You just sometimes can't pull yourself out.
00:07:10
Speaker
you know yeah I really don't have much to expound off what you just already laid out there so fluently, especially with everything that's a contradiction. Everything. Love your children. Love your spouse. Love your life. you know don't I'm just as guilty of it as anybody, man. likell I'll listen to one thing. I'm like, man, that guy makes sense. That sounds good.
00:07:27
Speaker
And then the next day I'm listening to another guy. I'm like, man, that sounds good too. And then like I start thinking about it. I'm like, that's complete fucking opposite. I can't meet those. I can't do that. You can't be one and be the other.
00:07:39
Speaker
No, you can't. It's like trying to wear a left-handed glove on your right hand. And just ain't right. Jerk off with your toes. It just doesn't happen.
00:07:49
Speaker
What? you had to You had to bring in some kind of funny, crazy comment. but ah It's a guy's show. We have to. But you hit the nail on the head there.
00:08:01
Speaker
You brought up some pretty great points. um I think... There's so much pressure to being a man in society these days. You know, at least roles were kind of established back in the day.
00:08:15
Speaker
Like you knew you were providing for your family in the in the 1950s. You knew what you were doing. And the woman knew what she was doing. Like role roles were just established.
00:08:27
Speaker
I'm not saying whether I'm not saying whether women should be stuck, you know, in the kitchen or whatever, anything like that. I'm just saying roles of a the the family were clearly established in this modern age. We're saying that it was better.
00:08:42
Speaker
No. It was just more established. It was established. You come home to society today and it is, everything is all over the place. It is a very isolating society where people send all kinds of crazy messages of what What type of expectations they have for who you're supposed to be in this world.
00:09:01
Speaker
And if you don't abide by those standards, you get shamed for them. This also goes along with. people you're trying to date or marry or um you know, have kids with.
00:09:15
Speaker
Like, if you're not meeting other people's expectations, they shame you for it. Even your own family will shame you for it. Everyone is trying to tell you who you're supposed to be.
00:09:29
Speaker
And you don't know what you're supposed to be because everyone else is trying to tell you what you're supposed to be. Exactly. agree with that. There's no, there's no clear establishment of what your identity is.
00:09:41
Speaker
Who am I? I love what you said, man, about if you don't meet their expectations, if you don't, climb every ladder the way they imagined you to do it. Like, I think it's hard. People need to remember, like guys aren't mind readers. We're not, we're not like, if you, you can give, give us a simple task, give a man a simple task.
00:10:03
Speaker
I need this from you. Do not judge him or shame him or pressure him on how to do it. He just needs, what's my end goal?
00:10:14
Speaker
And a good man, if he loves you, if he cares about you, if he wants the best for you, whether he's your father, whether he's your spouse, whether he's your friend, he's going to find a way to meet that expectation.
00:10:26
Speaker
Now, if you guys communicate differently and it looks different to you as the one giving what he's giving, then you have to be like, if I ask something from you three be guys, I'm like, hey, guys, out of you guys, I need X. And in my head, i'm like, oh, they would have to do this, this, this to get there. And that that will fulfill me.
00:10:45
Speaker
But I've only told you what the ending needs to be. There are three other men and this group here that are going to take three other paths, but everybody's going to end up at the same way.
00:10:56
Speaker
I'm judging each one of you on how you get there because none of you are going to take the path I'm going to take or how I would do it. That's bullshit on you guys. That makes you feel, even though you got to where I needed you to be, that makes you guys feel like you didn't do a full job because now I'm going to criticize.
00:11:13
Speaker
Well, I can't believe you did it that way. why I mean, I get it. We're here, but damn that. that took longer you you could have saved four hours by doing it this way you could have saved why didn't you you could have saved x amount of dollar or something like that like criticizing you on how you got to what i needed the shame is on me then like that's bullshit and i think so many men put up with that i've put up with it i've i've been like oh damn i did do it wrong i'm sorry so is that maybe next time i'll try to put pressure on to do it your way So is that another another point that would lead someone to like that that that path of suicide, like shame?
00:11:49
Speaker
I think the pressure, man. I think instead of always being corrected, when you're lonely, when you've isolated yourself, and you never feel like you are enough because you've always been told you can't meet expectations, I think think you just go to a dark place, man.
00:12:08
Speaker
think it just I mean, it but pressure kills. It does, man. I think that's one facet to it. It's like nobody, nobody is living their true, like the life that they want to live at at least very little people truly are living the way they want to live. You know, you might be working a crazy standard nine to five. You could be working a intensely demanding job or a backbreaking job.
00:12:37
Speaker
And you might have goals or aspirations in life and you're not even able to fulfill them or make them see the light of day because you are busting your ass just trying to, you know, take care of your family or you even just make a living for yourself. Like.
00:12:55
Speaker
there's no There's no way that you can confidently say that you are feeling fulfilled unless somehow you're working your dream job, you have X amount of goals set that you're fucking hitting all those goals. like Just in this modern age, like you're not able to fulfill yourself the way you maybe could if these roles weren't like so muddled, you know?
00:13:22
Speaker
if it wasn't just so contradictory, like no one's come out and been like, life is chaos. You need help to get through it. No, no one says that. When was the last time you saw some social media fucking genius?
00:13:34
Speaker
Hell, you don't even know the background of most of these people. I see most of these people on my own. Who are you to tell me how to live my life? Like, But people listen to them because they're there. And when you're looking for someone to listen to or to attach to, these guys can make an influence. And I'm like, how about just being honest?
00:13:53
Speaker
Like, hey, life sucks. It's rough. And you're going to carry a lot of burdens. Because why? Because everybody does. We all do. And instead of trying to sell this contradictory but bullshit,
00:14:06
Speaker
How about, hey, find some buddies and build find some real real buddies that you can fucking attach to. Lean on those guys and your life will get better. Yeah, as
Impact of high-stress careers
00:14:17
Speaker
we've said ah in a previous episode when we were talking about this kind of stuff, like finding your tribe is huge.
00:14:23
Speaker
Finding people with shared experience who understand what you're going through is, i would say, paramount. Like that is so important to having a a system in place of people around you who understand you and just understand that shared struggle.
00:14:42
Speaker
Because it is a very lonely and isolating feeling if you don't have that. And that is another reason why when people get out of the military, they feel like their life has changed so dramatically that they are not able to cope with modern society because they don't have that backbone of the military anymore where everybody is in the same situation.
00:15:03
Speaker
experience and understands what everyone else is going through and is living essentially the same type of life and are there for each other. It's a team.
00:15:14
Speaker
And when you get out in society, you're working fucking day to day, trying to make a living. Nobody gives a shit about anybody else. You're making small talk. You don't check up on people to see if you care about each other. And, you know, it's it's just a fucking mess out here.
00:15:30
Speaker
people don't People don't fucking care about each other. like they're just People don't. People don't give ah flying fuck about other people in courtesy. and and I mean, I get it. like If anyone listens to this and knows me, they're going to be like, that's Mac. He's an asshole. I'm not an asshole. I come across it as an asshole, but I don't give people that don't deserve my time my time.
00:15:54
Speaker
i don't give her i'm I'm polite to everyone until there's a need not to be. Yeah. I've had a lot of jobs where I can read people pretty quickly and I get a, I get a, I get a feeling about me pretty about you pretty fucking quickly. So I can be an asshole and I will be an asshole and I will be standoffish, but to your average person, and don't try to be that guy because I have no reason to be an asshole to you.
00:16:17
Speaker
I will use my manners. Even if I'm in a bad mood, I'm at least using my manners. And i think when you, especially in big cities where people are frustrated with traffic, people are frustrated with just trying to get groceries. Like everyone's in a hurry and trying to do this.
00:16:34
Speaker
Like if you run into somebody at the grocery store, like it can turn it instead of people just be like, Hey man, I'm sorry. a lot of times like that little incident turns into like, get out of the way. Dude, why?
00:16:45
Speaker
why Like, I don't know. I think if you have any you have enough of those and you live in a place where you keep getting those, like those little things can beat you down.
00:16:56
Speaker
Being callous is not the way to go and it sucks because I've been calloused. right like I've been there. I've done that. I work the job where callous mind and a callous soul and a calloused heart is kind of how you survive in it.
00:17:08
Speaker
um because you're not sleeping sleeping. You're not getting the recovery you need and you're seeing bad shit day in and day out. and When you see the worst of the world and your own backyard especially in your own backyard where you take your family, yeah i mean that shit beats you down. That's why you see cops kill themselves. That shit can beat down. Firefighters, EMTs, nurses,
00:17:30
Speaker
ah shit can beat you down so i do i think firefighters emts nurses Nurses, fuck. um Shout out to our nurses who listen to us.
00:17:41
Speaker
But that shit just, I think that wears heavy. that's why I think you see those, those we're going down rabbit hole, but that's why I think you see those jobs with high suicide rates. Mental health in general and any anything like where you're dealing with a job that strictly deals with trauma, right?
00:18:01
Speaker
You got nurses, first responders, EMTs, firefighters, paramedics, cops. You got people dealing with trauma left and right, and you notice like high infidelity rates among them.
00:18:15
Speaker
Yes. Because people are looking for an escape, an escape from their current reality. And people don't understand how to process. And you're dealing with it 24 seven. And all you do at work is laugh at the fuck off because that's all you can do.
00:18:32
Speaker
But yeah it's still hurting you. It's still fucking affecting you. But you're putting the blinders on. So you're looking for an escape elsewhere. I think to touch on the point you said, we're like, i mean, those careers have the highest rates of getting cheated on infidelity and inside marriages. And know what I want to think it is, is you go through these traumatic events.
00:18:53
Speaker
Again, we are not experts in any of this. None of us have a fucking degree in any of this. Um, but you go through these traumatic events, um together it's it's just and i guess the joke is and we'll just i'm going to be blunt with it firefighters and cops fuck nurses that's that's the inside joke everybody fucking knows it when you've had a rookie you're like stay away from the yeah er r nurse yep but what it is is and i think what it is is you're on the road you're a firefighter you're a cop you're amt whatever
00:19:25
Speaker
And you go through this traumatic event. You're trying to save a fucking life. And then you take that person to the ER. And most of the time, it's going to be the same ER. So you get to know the nurses.
00:19:36
Speaker
And you're knowing the nurses in these elevated emotional states that you're just trying to be cool with, what ah keep your calm. And that the chemical imbalance in you is fucked up at that point.
00:19:47
Speaker
And then you go home. You've just dealt with 10 hours, 12 hours, 24 hours of fucking people's bullshit. Then you go home and you've got the pressures of home trying to meet. and if if you've got a great spouse, this isn't even an issue. If you've got a spouse that is, you feel fully supported and it doesn't have those, those, already forgot the name, um false peaks, false summits.
00:20:10
Speaker
Yes. And you go home and you know your role at home. That infidelity is not an issue. But if you got the guy that is going home and now he's he feels lonely at home because he doesn't feel like he's meeting his spouse's or his partner's expectations, he's going to find safety somewhere else. He's going to find some comfort somewhere else. And that's going to be with people he sees all the time.
00:20:36
Speaker
that bring him joy and comfort. and the same it it And I think that's why you see that infidelity. And that's not a joke. I mean, it is a joke. We all make the jokes, but it's it's real life too. Nurses and fucking first responders always end up somehow together.
00:20:53
Speaker
And it's it's it's it's all part of that shared experience, though, right? They understand what the other is going through. It's the same thing as looking for a tribe of, you know, friends who understand what you're going through.
00:21:06
Speaker
you're You're looking for people with complete understanding of who you are and what your experience is. If you're coming home from work after a long shift and you're just getting your ass kicked and it's traumatic event after traumatic event and your spouse is just completely unapathetic or understanding of like what you're going through, you're going to seek that elsewhere because you need you need that.
00:21:30
Speaker
That's just another brick you carry because now you've got infidelity. Yeah. And that's that could be part of it. It might not. It all depends on the person, obviously. But like it's it's just another point to how you might be feeling extremely lonely in your life, which could lead to that depression, which could then lead to suicide.
00:21:50
Speaker
Oh, for sure. What else direction are we going in there? Tyler? Tyler? Yeah, we getting off on a rabbit hole? Because I feel like could. And don't get us wrong. This could be a different thing. Everyone. Lawyers, doctors.
00:22:02
Speaker
This is this is this is ah Caleb's expertise here doing the the leading of the that's what conversation. so so I'm trying my best here, guys. Give give me a break. but um He's not even here. Fuck him.
00:22:15
Speaker
yeah So you guys both were married. Brandon, you're still married.
Divorce and legal challenges for men
00:22:20
Speaker
Mac, you divorced. Both of you have kids. I just want to bring up, because, I mean, obviously I'm married, but I don't have any kids.
00:22:28
Speaker
the The complication that could arise from ah nasty divorce or, you know, the the way that society and the the justice system does have an advantage for women over men.
00:22:45
Speaker
and how that can absolutely play into why people kill themselves. Because it beats the shit out of the dad. You go so again, false summits as the father, you get it your your wife demands a divorce.
00:23:00
Speaker
Now all of sudden, every false summit you've never hit and that feeling of not meeting expectations becomes 100% bona fide. Like now there's a divorce. Now there's paperwork to say that you fucking suck.
00:23:14
Speaker
And then the your ex spouse, whatever it is fucking starts coming at you because you know, women know not, I mean, it's getting more and more popular that women aren't seeking child support or alimony, blah, blah, blah. There are more and more independent women out there that are, it's, it's gaining that they're, they're making on there, but there are still the women out there that are,
00:23:38
Speaker
They know that if they give you 50% custody, like you're fucking owed because you're the goddamn dad or any kind of leeway, they lose money.
00:23:50
Speaker
And so they come at these divorces trying to fuck the man down. When he already feels defeated, he's already let his family down. he's He's in a spot where he already is lost. like In his own head, he's lost.
00:24:02
Speaker
I know this because I've been there. You feel defeated. You've already fucking lost. You haven't, not in real life, but you feel it, and that's where you are. that's That shit sucks. you are You go to a really defeated place, and when every – When you're talking to their lawyer and then it is just a constant badgering from her of how bad you fucking did and how how much of a failure you were, then you're like, well, how do I make, like, fuck?
00:24:29
Speaker
And then they just keep attacking. And I think this is part of like, a lawyer strategy, right? They attack the dad until he just, like, makes a deal. Yeah, he makes a deal. And then all of a sudden, two years down the road, you're like,
00:24:41
Speaker
That deal was bullshit. um ah And when you get your feet back underneath you, but now you're struggling because you're trying to make child support. You're trying to provide your kid. and like it just And so then you get these dads that are working their ass off so they can't spend their time with their kids because they're trying to make these ridiculous child support payments.
00:25:02
Speaker
When the ex-wife is getting her nails done, going on trips, doing this, and you're fucking living paycheck to paycheck trying to be like, all right, we can't. I can't take the kids to McDonald's because, you know, I could go to the grocery Like you can't even enjoy time with your kids. And I think that makes the dad feel even more lonely.
00:25:21
Speaker
and it gets to the point where it's like my kids see, and I think a lot of dads can get there where they think their kids see them as a failure. All because the mom. This a cool one.
00:25:32
Speaker
The mom is fucking feeding because she's using her inner hate and her greediness to take what she can from the dad. like You're part of the problem. and Part of the divorce is your fault.
00:25:44
Speaker
like It takes two people to but break up a relationship. so If you had a divorce, like I think that's bullshit, but I think it's been a strategy amongst lawyers to just attack the dads because I think it's a man's mentality to go fuck.
00:25:58
Speaker
And I think it's hard to reverse that. Like if the man is lucky enough, like I have been to get your feet underneath you and go, this this is bullshit. I'm their dad.
00:26:10
Speaker
um You want to fight? Let's fight. um I'm not, I don't, yeah. you know like But I think a lot of dads just get in that rut where they have to work so much to make payment that you don't even have time to fight. You don't have the energy to fight.
00:26:24
Speaker
And that sucks. And that that's terrible. And the shitty thing is the exes never give a shit. They don't fucking care. if you look They just think, hey, he's a dirt – like he gets the kids three nights a week, but he's working two of them.
00:26:40
Speaker
They don't even take responsibility that he's working because he's making some god-awful child support payment to you who you got your fucking nails done, your haircut. like And I think that just drives men into this depression of loneliness and constant feeling of failure.
00:26:56
Speaker
And so I think that's why divorce is so much harder on men, especially blue-collar men, that aren't making a shitload of money. So I wonder, going to ask you guys a question here. It just kind popped into my head.
00:27:08
Speaker
Do you think that to at ah at a certain point that there is an allure to the individual for suicide? What do you mean allure? Are you saying like there's a, you start to
Influence of witnessing suicide
00:27:20
Speaker
feel... Or feel like that is the only, or is it just that split second decision that could have been made or So here's the way I see it.
00:27:29
Speaker
And this is, i mean, we'll we'll get into this for sure, ah like personal experiences, but the way I've experienced it, it comes almost as a whisper, a little seeping.
00:27:43
Speaker
thought that just slowly wiggles its way into your head and it says you could do this you wouldn't have to deal with this anymore it'll all be done you could just not have to deal with any of this anymore and that idea grows and it spreads like a virus and the more you think about it the worse it gets and it trickles its way into your entire being it's it's like a virus dude It's way out. It's an exit door.
00:28:11
Speaker
It's like when you hit the most hopeless point in your life. Like do you see no way out. when there's no When there's no more light and you're just sitting by yourself in darkness and all a sudden there's a little glimmer, like you slowly start itching, inching and inching and inching closer and closer and closer to that light. and you And I mean, I don't know. I've never attempted. I've never, it's not been something in my mental state to do, but it is just something that I i feel like
00:28:43
Speaker
it starts to consume your thought process slowly and like you said it's like a virus it gets in there and slowly over time it starts consuming where you're at and once that's in there and it's it's like getting it it's like it's like a new relationship right like it starts so and you you start thinking about it and then pretty soon it's all you fucking think about Yeah.
00:29:05
Speaker
So it's weird, too, because I think about as far as my experience with like my friends committing suicide. Right.
00:29:16
Speaker
You look at and this this isn't just with me, with a lot of people who have multiple friends who have committed suicide. ah you know especially within like the military ranks, um you see as people do it, you start to see the posts online like, you know why is this happening? why How did we turn a blind eye? like People basically condemning it, not against the person, but just condemning the action of it happened having happened.
00:29:44
Speaker
And they start to question things. And then more and more of them start to sprout up. And it's like, you know, within two weeks... I lost two friends in 2015 to suicide.
00:29:56
Speaker
And the second one was impacted by the first one, not on a level of where that made him kill himself, but he was definitely distraught that the first one committed suicide and questioned why he did it But somehow he still ended up committing suicide also.
00:30:15
Speaker
So what is it that makes us like still question the action, but then have the thought ourselves and want to go through with it? Does it does it seem more alluring after a while of seeing enough people do it that it it seeps its way into your consciousness and just makes you think like this is an OK path?
00:30:37
Speaker
Because for me, like, I mean, I've gone through those thoughts. But I've as I've come out of it, I've come at it in like an anti suicide stance where like I need to stay alive to fight this to stop it from happening.
00:30:52
Speaker
So what do what do you think about that? Like, what is it as this epidemic happens that we see more and more people do it? What what is it that keeps people continuing the trend instead of stopping it?
00:31:05
Speaker
because it's hurt, man. It's loneliness. It's it's pain. I mean, it is, it's, it's pain. they're they're They're dealing, people who are going to commit suicide are going to commit suicide.
00:31:17
Speaker
there' there' There's very rarely are you going to be able to talk them off the ledge. um If you are able to talk somebody off the ledge, if you're able to intervene,
00:31:31
Speaker
and throw an intervention in there. That person was looking for help the whole time. I thoroughly believe that. they They're willing to listen. They just need, and they're willing to take the help.
00:31:42
Speaker
They just need somebody to put their hand out for them to grab onto. That's all they need. And I think those people that feel like that, like they're just looking for something to grab onto, they are truly in a deep loneliness state.
00:31:58
Speaker
they They feel alone. And so when they they don't get that, instead carrying that feeling, think it's just easier and i it's just easier to do it.
00:32:10
Speaker
But those those people that really want to do it, I really want to end it. i mean, you guys you guys were first responders, you know, in all the training. they're They seem happy. They seem great. They're with their kids. They're they're this, they're that, and the signs aren't there.
00:32:25
Speaker
they're They're fighting demons that you, i experts, nobody else can see or dig up. They're fighting those demons on their own. And I think that that just gets to a point where like that decision comes in. They thought about it a couple of times and finally something in them goes, okay. Yeah.
00:32:44
Speaker
yeah And then they do it and you're not, and going to tell you that you're not talking that person off the ledge because you're not going to know they're on the ledge. Yeah. But I think everybody else, I think they're just looking for a hand to grab onto.
00:32:56
Speaker
and when they don't get that i think the loneliness is just you know we've all been lonely at times in our life and that's a heavy burden oh yeah and i think in my mind i think it's split seconds because you can literally think of your whole day in 10 seconds and it's just that one split second thought that split second emotion that split second loneliness that hopelessness or that that where that 10 seconds you just take it go through and I don't I don't try to think about it with the friends that we've lost or the friends I've lost I just try to think on the good times I've had with them I try not to question why or like that I still do from time to time i don't I don't think like anything negative towards them obviously I know I under I understand their their just I mean i don't understand their their perspective per se but I understand their decision and you know it makes sense
00:33:47
Speaker
But I do like to try to think of their psyche because I think it's important to understand how people are thinking that makes them get to that point.
00:33:59
Speaker
Like we need we need to understand that in order to fight it, you know? I worked a lot of suicide attempts on the road and there were legitimate. there There are some that stand out in my mind.
00:34:10
Speaker
And some of these attempts where was an attempt, quote unquote, but they didn't really put a lot of effort into it. You know, like they, they knew if they did a attempt that it would get a response from their family, it would get a response from first responders and,
00:34:29
Speaker
Maybe that's what they needed. They needed something. they they it They didn't put a lot of effort into doing it. I've also worked some attempts where they put effort into it.
00:34:40
Speaker
their Their goal was not for us to save their life. We did. And my my question was always... that person just put a lot of effort into ending their life and we saved it.
00:34:53
Speaker
Was that the best choice for them? Because i mean, it's their life. They made the decision. They, they didn't ask their mom to call the first responders and we show up and tourniquet it, you know, like,
00:35:07
Speaker
That by the grace of God or by luck or by whatever, like we were supposed to be there when we were. but i was I always almost dealt with it. Was that for the betterment of their life?
00:35:18
Speaker
Was us putting a tourniquet on that whatever body part that they just sliced open because they wanted to bleed out? Did we better their life by saving them? And I wrestled with that, right? I still do because I don't know these people. i never kept up with them.
00:35:31
Speaker
um You did your job. You showed up. Your job was to save their life. You put them in the gurney. The bus took them to the ambulance. You didn't go to everybody else. So I guess the question was like, was no, I can't let them die. Yeah. But was saving in their life the right answer? yeah Or did they just six months later still dealing with the same burdens and did it another way?
00:35:54
Speaker
Well, here's the thing, Mac. Obviously, it's going to be different for everybody. Like, there will always be that person who you you save them, and then they'll still end up killing themselves. That will always be a thing.
00:36:05
Speaker
But, you know, something that sticks out in my mind is, like, look at – there's videos for – There's these interviews of people who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, and there's less than 1% chance that those people survive.
00:36:20
Speaker
And the people who did survive, they're on video saying, like, I am so grateful that I lived, and ah I regretted it the second that I jumped. Yeah, I've seen them.
00:36:32
Speaker
And then you get the cases of people who hang themselves and then, you know, somehow, like, break breakthrough with it and they are so grateful that they you know somehow survived it because the the moment that they started to do it they regretted it so it's we had i mean we dealt with the ones that would call 9-1-1 uh the zip ties around the neck i don't know if you guys have seen that one yet oh yeah ah not but zip ties around the neck yeah calling 9-1-1 because all of a sudden if asphyxiation fucking hurts.
00:37:04
Speaker
Yes. And they realize like, oh shit, this is how I die. You got time to think about it. Like, yeah. And that's when they're calling 911 and those people, there's a lot of gratefulness in them there.
00:37:16
Speaker
Um, But the ones like, I mean, the one that sticks out in my mind most visibly is the the cutting up the wrist. I mean, you guys have seen that that Cutting across the wrist. We all know if you cut across the wrist, unless you cut your fucking arm off, you're probably going to live.
00:37:30
Speaker
But this one was to her bone on both arms, wrist to elbow. She didn't want to be here anymore. Yeah. Yeah. You go that deep, that long, you don't want to be here. now And so it was it's one that's like, fuck, man. like What happened? like Did us saving her life change her life?
00:37:49
Speaker
Or did we just add more shit to what she was already going through? Because now she's got to, you know, all the tendons are cut. The rehabilitation is there. And that you just, there's more burden on her now. So, I mean, as first responders, I think that's other burdens that we carry as first responders.
00:38:07
Speaker
And I think that's, did I make the difference I set out to make? And the difference you set out to make is to better people's lives, not fucking make them worse. And that's where, right there, I think just asking ourselves those questions all the the time, too. we have to i't There's no way to learn how to let it go. There's no way to learn how to just stop asking. But that that what if, the word if, that is what drives a lot of us into.
00:38:32
Speaker
Yeah, um it's it's tricky because, you know, something that comes to mind is the you know, there are certain places in Europe that you can go to literally assist you commit suicide.
Cultural perceptions of suicide
00:38:45
Speaker
Right.
00:38:46
Speaker
hmm. And then you got the places in like Japan where there's like the suicide forest. Where it's like you can literally just wander into the forest and kill yourself and it's just like a ah well-known thing that, you know, thousands and thousands of people do.
00:39:00
Speaker
And it's kind of just like made into this like memorial respect sort of atmosphere. It's, I think it's important to normalize. the the thoughts and, you know, almost wishes for suicide.
00:39:16
Speaker
But we as a society need to come together to give people enough of reason to live and want to help others live. Because yes there's there's there's just so much shit going on in this world that's just like, it makes you sick to your stomach that like we...
00:39:33
Speaker
Fuck, man. It's like, what's the point of going on sometimes with all the shit that's just going on in the world? Like, you want to bring up kids in this world? Fucking hellhole.
00:39:45
Speaker
Why do we argue about stupid things? And I'm not even going into politics. Like, this is just general, like, life. there's so much shit there's so much fucking ugly shit going on in this world it's just like it's not a positive outlook but uh I saw something where somebody said I'm gonna scratch it I don't know somebody said I'll do something tomorrow and whoever they were talking to like well how do you know that's guaranteed like well it'll be there tomorrow he goes no huh How do you know it's guaranteed?
00:40:13
Speaker
How do I know what's guaranteed tomorrow? How are you sure tomorrow is guaranteed? i mean, we all live in the city of maybe not slamming, but um i live but I live in a dangerous city. My family lives in a dangerous city.
00:40:27
Speaker
Catching a stray bullet is not something that is like that shit happens. Yeah. Getting slammed into by a drunk driver. it happens. if you're as If you go for a run, getting fucking run over happens.
00:40:41
Speaker
I'm like, so really like, I don't know, maybe it's old age and letting a lot of shit go, but I'm more apt to just be nice to people. Say hi, smile. I have a good looking smile.
00:40:53
Speaker
Share it with the world. Why not? Like, and it just annoys me that people want to argue about stupid things like politics. Who the fuck? People want to argue about just the dumbest shit. And I'm like, what why are we mean about the dumbest shit?
00:41:08
Speaker
Like, no one's time is more important. You got the media, which is constantly trying to divide us, and the political parties, which are obviously also doing the same. It's it's all feeding into the same bullshit of constant division and turmoil. Fighting. When we need to focus on the shit that unites us rather than separates. But...
00:41:30
Speaker
Let's be friends. yeah and that's Take care of your friends. Just look for the brightness in the world. you know And if you listen to this podcast, you obviously listen to the podcast because all our hosts, all align. you know like And I think everyone here, like we've made a statement between the four of us. like Take care of your friends.
00:41:49
Speaker
Make it your goal to take care of your friends. So it's find some friends and be like, this is who I'm going to take care of. And that could change their lives. You don't know.
00:41:59
Speaker
Yeah. um Mac, I know obviously you've you have said like about your personal experience, which you didn't really have those thoughts. Last episode that we were talking about this with the depression episode, and Brandon, myself, and Caleb all said we have had thoughts of suicide before.
00:42:19
Speaker
i do want to touch on that subject and kind of go into our personal experience. um Brandon, could you just kind of like go over a little bit of what you were feeling and that whole experience honestly if you have any kind of suicidal ideation stay away from drugs and alcohol time don't don't give yourself a um don't give yourself that uh that added fuel to take away any kind of like preservation of life from you because that's where it would hit me the hardest if i was i was drinking or if i was actually just drinking in general because i really didn't um it would make it a lot easier
00:42:53
Speaker
And yeah, I've had ideation before. It just kind of, like you said, it creeps in. It's like a virus. You don't really, but um honestly, I haven't had them in a while, but I know there were attempts back in my past um while in service.
00:43:07
Speaker
I'm not going to go to them at all, but... I just don't feel like sharing too deeply. but But yeah, man, I mean, I still some days, you know, it just crosses your mind. But I try to just pull myself out. I try to look at my family. I try to look at my wife, my kid, my future children, you know, and just look at what I have good going in my life instead of that bad. That one bad thing. multiple bad things. And try not to be a death by a thousand about all I got, man.
00:43:31
Speaker
Yeah. um Obviously, Caleb's not here to share his experience. So we'll we'll catch him for the next one ah when we also have our guest to talk about family and friends and the impact that it has.
00:43:44
Speaker
um But I will touch on mine. a little bit so i didn't really start feeling i mean i felt depressed getting out of the military it was ah really tough transition um i got out in november 2014 of active duty went back home and that winter i started feeling like this intense like loneliness and isolation um lived in my mom's tiny little you know shoebox house and i couldn't sleep and i think the safety aspect of like having the military there was you know stripped away from me and i wasn't able to sleep i started sleeping with my ak-47 my bed with me
00:44:30
Speaker
And that was the only way I could sleep. ah um She lived in this little house that was surrounded by the woods. And I'd like start to hear noises. And I got very like paranoid. So I couldn't sleep for months. Like, you know, actual get like good sleep.
00:44:44
Speaker
So I had to crawl my way out of that. And I did that by like having goals. So I set out to, you know, pursue filmmaking, which is kind of what I had always wanted to do once I got out of the military.
00:44:57
Speaker
So I went to community college, and then got into my dream college, which was Emerson in Boston. Went there, did that whole thing, and then ah graduated.
00:45:09
Speaker
i went through a really, really rough breakup um after I graduated. And once I attained that degree, i was going through this breakup, and i also got out of the reserves because I i did a couple years in reserves.
00:45:24
Speaker
So the the the Marine Corps was fully gone out of my life. Didn't have a girlfriend anymore. And I was working a, you know, shit job that had nothing to do with my degree, living in my mom's shoebox apartment.
00:45:37
Speaker
And I just felt empty, like fucking life felt meaningless, you know, and I didn't know where to turn. My family didn't really understand mental health.
00:45:48
Speaker
um Nothing against them. It's just, you know, my dad and my brother are like, super about just sucking things up and you know working your way through it and my mom suffers from depression and she still doesn't truly understand like what that experience is or like what she's going through doesn't know how to talk about it or you know go through it so i felt very alone and nicely um i i I didn't necessarily have a direct plan of how I wanted to do it, but I was at the point where I wanted to die and I started to be more reckless with my actions.
Personal struggles and the importance of support
00:46:28
Speaker
um When I was driving on the road, like on, you know, a long empty road, i would start to envision myself just like speeding up and start to careen off the road and try to hit a tree or drive off a ravine Um, and i got very reckless with that.
00:46:47
Speaker
And to the point where like, I literally had to steer, you know, like swerve to avoid that. Um, had a lot of guns around. I didn't want to specifically do anything like that just because like, you know, I fully support gun rights and there's, there's too many, uh, you know, gun deaths and, uh, people advocating against guns that like, I was like,
00:47:10
Speaker
you know fiercely against doing anything like that but for you got to think of like how many men kill themselves most of the time it is with firearms because that is a quick easy way of doing it and we have easy access to it uh meanwhile with like women ah most of the time they try with pills but i man i was just at that point where like i didn't want to live anymore And it's not that I had like a specific way of like, like a set plan of this is exactly how I'm going to do it and laid it all out.
00:47:43
Speaker
But I was just at that point where I was done. And literally the only thing that kept me alive was actually there was a couple things but one of them was knowing that I had to be the witness for my other friends who have done it because if I became another statistic what would that say about me having been an advocate to raise awareness for what they have gone through if I had just joined the statistic you know I didn't want to be just another number I want to to help fight that number
00:48:19
Speaker
and lower it. um i was really grateful because once I left that dead-end job, I joined um a veteran organization where I got to specifically help veterans.
00:48:31
Speaker
And my boss at the time, who was an Iraq war vet, guy slayed bodies in Iraq, and he instantly knew that I was struggling. And directly asked me the question if I was suicidal.
00:48:44
Speaker
And i straight up lied to his face. I said no. um A lot of times people think it's, you know, not bad to ask somebody if if they're considering suicide.
00:48:55
Speaker
and I don't necessarily disagree. But I wasn't. I wasn't really comfortable with telling him that, but i appreciated that he asked me and I appreciated that he was there for me and he kind of helped me going.
00:49:08
Speaker
And then we started to help more veterans and go through their challenges in life. And I realized that helping people helps yourself. You don't necessarily fix the problems that's going on in your life, but you realize that If you're so willing to fight for others, then you need to be willing to fight for yourself.
00:49:26
Speaker
And that's something that I always ask people when they're going through is like, if I was feeling suicidal, would you try to help me or stop me? And the answer is always yes. And then it's like, well, why don't you do that for yourself?
00:49:39
Speaker
That's all I got. Good dude. think That's a powerful question. Well, I think... I think that's a good way to close out this topic, at least this episode.
00:49:50
Speaker
I think leaving with that thought, if if you're willing to help somebody else, are you willing to help yourself? so And why if not, why aren't you willing to help yourself?
00:50:01
Speaker
I think that's a ah good way to lead this. Yeah. we Lead this episode because that's ah that's a hard question. I think there's i think that there's men out there and I think there's women out there that are going to struggle with that question.
00:50:12
Speaker
I think people are really good to ah think people may struggle with, yeah, I'd help my neighbor, but what would I do to help myself? What what can I do to help myself? um What does that look like? What do I need?
00:50:24
Speaker
what What do I need to pull myself out? Do I need somebody else to help me? Can I do this on my own? So i think I think that's a good way to end this. I think leaving it on that question will lead us in the next week um or two weeks whenever we do this. I think that's a powerful impact, Tyler.
00:50:42
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. So we'll we'll dive back into that next episode, and we have couple special guests appearing as our very first official guest to talk about the impact that suicide can have on family and friends and the experience to go along with that.
00:51:00
Speaker
And so now we will get to the quirky closeout. Unfortunately, if we don't have Caleb for it, so I'm going to have to be the one. so Dude, FaceTime his ass.
00:51:10
Speaker
Put him on the screen. I don't know where he's at. He hasn't messaged us. So, Worky Closeout. Worky Closeout. What is your favorite song of all time?
00:51:26
Speaker
That's a hard one, man. I'll tell you mine. Mine's Bohemian Rhapsody. Classic. Aerosmith, Don't Want to Miss a Thing. Always one my favorites. Always crank that one up loud.
00:51:36
Speaker
I like Flight of the Valkyries, man. Ooh. I can play that song anytime, anywhere. going to Vietnam, dude? apolyy Anything by Garth Brooks.
00:51:48
Speaker
Anything by the man himself. The guy could sing a fucking lullaby and I'd be like, hey, love it. Let's do it. Let's play it on repeat.
00:52:01
Speaker
Love it. Man.
Listener engagement and support resources
00:52:03
Speaker
So to close this out, I would like to ask our listeners, if you could leave us some kind of feedback, question, comment, leave us a review, help us out, help us grow this channel, help us spread the word.
00:52:16
Speaker
If we've helped you in any way, let us know. if you have a question, ask us and we'll see you next time. Hey, for boys real quick. If you listen to this and you are struggling and you need help,
00:52:28
Speaker
and you don't know where to turn, we have a social media. Send us a message. One of us will read it, and one of us will reach out. That's what we're here And if you're not comfortable talking to us, you can talk to a stranger. All you got to do is dial 988-988-UL, guys.
00:52:41
Speaker
Love you, guys. Love you, boys. Love y'all. Good morning, Jens.
00:52:58
Speaker
you