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Boyslut & Bislut with Zachary Zane
5k Plays1 year ago
Welcome to Season 6 of Two Bi Guys! Our premiere episode features Zachary Zane, back for his second Two Bi Guys interview, and we discussed his awesome new "memoir and manifesto", BOYSLUT.
We chatted about sexual shame, the relationship between porn and queerness, kinks, fetishes, dom/sub dynamics, Zach's book tour and the surprising "controversies" that have popped up, the joys of anal stimulation -- when done correctly (and how to do that), why it can be beneficial to come out if you're married and monogamous, unlearning what society teaching us about sex, rejection, therapy, lube, and much more!
Can't get enough? There are 20 extra minutes of bonus content with Zach on my new Patreon (found here: https://www.patreon.com/robertbrookscohen -- or find the link in our social media bio). There, we talked about Zach’s pornstar boyfriend, our thoughts on starting our own OnlyFans (and possible collaboration...), sexual queerness v. cultural queerness, non-monogamy and polyamory, and the play parties Zach has been hosting in NYC, Boyslut and Bislut. Thanks for listening!
Use my special link https://zen.ai/QysyWDhMy1HLyR-9UhkgCQ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
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Transcript
Podcast Relaunch & Upcoming Season
00:00:07
Speaker
you
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Two Bye, guys. It has been a long while, hasn't it? I've been off the air for a while. I've been pretty busy doing lots of different things that I'll tell you about. But I'm very excited to get back to the podcast and to share some of these interviews with you this season. I have some amazing guests. So it's exciting to be here, and thanks for listening. So what have I been up to since the last episode dropped a while ago?
New Book Announcement: Bisexual Married Men
00:00:40
Speaker
I wrote a book.
00:00:42
Speaker
As many of you know, if you listened to the last season and if you've been following along with this story, I have written a book about bisexual married men. It's specifically about bi men who are married to women. More different experiences coming soon, I hope. But this book is called Bisexual Married Men, Stories of Relationships, Acceptance, and Authenticity.
00:01:03
Speaker
And the book is both a memoir about my life and my relationship, and also an oral history featuring 13 interviews with other bi guys who are married, most of whom are listeners of this show. So I want to thank everyone who participated or who even offered to participate. I still have a database of all of you guys, and I'm hoping to continue this project in some form or another. If you haven't signed up for that database and you are a bi married man,
00:01:32
Speaker
The link is in our link tree on our social media. You can still add yourself to the database just in case I do more stuff in the future. But the book features 13 interviews. I'm so excited for it to come out. It's all done. We're in the copy editing phase now. There's a few logistical things left to happen and the book is supposed to be released on November 30th, 2023.
00:01:55
Speaker
You can pre-order it on Amazon now. I will have it available on my website soon, which I'll tell you about, and you'll
Bi Authors Spotlight: Interviews & Books
00:02:02
Speaker
be able to find it wherever books are sold. And in honor of my book, this season is book season. I am interviewing all by authors who have some awesome new books out. And some of the people I've interviewed, you've met before. You heard them on this podcast before they wrote a book. Now they've written a book. We're going to talk about that.
00:02:22
Speaker
And then there's some people who are new to the podcast and have written some amazing books that I love. We've got Vanit Mehta and Benjamin Perry coming back to the podcast. We've got Jessica Fern, who wrote Polly Secure, which is one of my favorite, favorite books. We've also got an author named Kate Mangino, who wrote a book called Equal Partners that is about relationships and gender dynamics. It's really fascinating.
00:02:45
Speaker
and more after that, so I'm very excited for this season. We'll get to the first interview with Zachary Zane, who wrote a book called Boy Slut recently. It's awesome, you should check it out. We'll get to that in a minute, but first I have some more exciting news. I'm
Support Us: Patreon Introduction
00:02:59
Speaker
starting a Patreon for bonus material, early access, and ad-free episodes of Two Bye Guys. So I'm a member of the Writers Guild of America. I am currently on strike. Job security is up in the air, and even if the strike ends,
00:03:14
Speaker
It still is because this industry is quite unpredictable. I really love doing this podcast. I love chatting with the amazing people in the bi community and sharing it with you all. But the truth is, I've been doing it for four years, almost five, and it is a lot of work. And I'm so glad that the first five seasons
00:03:36
Speaker
have been out there as a free resource for the buy community available to everyone. And moving forward, the vast majority of my content will still be free to all. But if you've been enjoying to buy guys and have a few bucks to spare to support my work, I would really appreciate it.
00:03:53
Speaker
and I want to make it worth your while. So if you subscribe on Patreon, you will get access to each episode as soon as I finish editing it, whether that's the night before I upload it publicly or a week before, or sometimes further in advance if I'm banking episodes, which I am right now. You will also get a completely ad-free listening experience. Many of you know I've partnered with Zencaster to do both host-read ads and also programmatic ads now. You may have noticed those recently.
00:04:23
Speaker
You will hear none of that on the Patreon, just the interviews and updates like this from me. And most importantly, you will get bonus content, whether it's five extra minutes or 45 extra minutes. You never know. Every episode will have at least some bonus content that you can only hear on Patreon. This episode has about 20 minutes of bonus content. So after you're done listening here, I highly recommend checking out those extra 20 minutes. They're they're pretty interesting.
00:04:51
Speaker
Plus, I also have some random old clips that I've saved in a folder and never posted, and they're kind of fun and random, and I will be releasing stuff like that here and there as an extra bonus to all subscribers. There will also be more stuff coming soon on the Patreon, possibly related to the book, so subscribe on my Patreon, you'll get access to everything I talked about.
00:05:14
Speaker
updates about the future and you'll help support my work. It's only $5 and it really helps me keep all this going. So thank you. Before
Audio Issues Apology
00:05:22
Speaker
we begin this episode, I do unfortunately have to apologize for one thing. Due to my extended hiatus, I was a bit rusty in the recording process.
00:05:33
Speaker
I forgot to change the gain setting on my microphone when I recorded the first couple episodes, so the audio quality on my end is not ideal. Right now it probably sounds fine, but when the interview starts, you will notice a difference. I do apologize. It's pretty bad right away because I was very animated and excited to begin the interview,
00:05:55
Speaker
But it does get better as the episode goes on, a little bit better. I hope it's not that obtrusive. The same thing unfortunately happened in my second episode, but to a much lesser degree. After that, it's fixed and remembered to change the game. I know what I'm doing now. Anyway, you'll notice it in this episode. I really do apologize, but I thought that my conversation with Zach was great and spontaneous and authentic, and I wanted to bring it to you even though the audio is clipped is what we call it.
00:06:22
Speaker
So it won't happen again. I know you'll enjoy the episode anyway, and without further ado, here is professional, bisexual, boy-slut, bi-slut Zachary Zane.
00:06:45
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Two Bye, guys. It's been a while. Nice to see you all again. Well, I can't see you, but it's nice to be back. And we're back for our book review season.
Interview with Zachary Zane: Journey & 'Boy Slut'
00:06:57
Speaker
I took a break to write my book. We're interviewing a bunch of authors this season. I've got a whole lineup of authors. And I haven't really set a schedule yet, but I'm pretty sure this is the season premiere. If it's not, I'll edit this out. But nice.
00:07:11
Speaker
And also, we have our first ever repeat guest, I think ever, who's back for a second time to record a new episode. Welcome back to the podcast, professional bisexual and mega, bisexual mega influencer Zachary Zane. Hello. Well, I feel honored for returning to the podcast here for being the only one and I'm, I'm excited to be another bye guy on this podcast here.
00:07:37
Speaker
Yes, there were two bye guys the last time you were here. Well, three, including you. Now it's just me, and so now it's just two of us again. There's usually two, but we still call it two bye guys, and we wish Alex well. He's doing lovely work at the Trevor Project and is just doing such important work. He doesn't have time to bullshit with us, but I'm glad we both have time to do this. Oh, I know. Yeah, absolutely.
00:08:05
Speaker
If you haven't listened to the last episode with Zach, you should. You should go back and do it. Just in case, Zachary Zane is the sex and relationship columnist for Men's Health. He writes Sex Blaine It, where he answers all your questions about masculinity, ethical non-monogamy, sexual insecurities, and the queer community with a bit of a focus on bi,
00:08:29
Speaker
bisexuality and fluidity. He is the co-author since we spoke. He has co-authored Men's Health Best Sex Ever. There's a period after each word. 200 Frank funny and friendly answers about getting it on. His work has appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, Playboy, Vice, GQ, Rolling Stone, many, many more. I could list it forever.
00:08:53
Speaker
and his new book is out now it's by the time you hear this it's been out for a few months you maybe you've read it already i hope you've read it already it's called boy slot a memoir and manifesto i just binged it this week uh i i couldn't space it out i had to binge it i love that i love hearing that
00:09:13
Speaker
And I loved it. Everyone should buy a copy. It's great. It's a lot of stuff we talk about here and then some. And half the time, maybe more than half the time, I felt like I was reading about my life, like you were writing about me. And I'm sure many people will feel that way. So it's good to have you. Welcome back.
00:09:35
Speaker
I have topics I want to discuss. I don't have as many questions like last time, but I will start with the question, which is tell us about life since 2020 when we last spoke and how did this book come about and all your writing for men's health. What's been going on since we last book?
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah, wow, it's been a moment. It has been a moment. So yeah, COVID happened. I'm not sure if you're aware of this. I'm not sure if your listeners are. No. What was that? Yeah, what was that? But that actually allowed me and gave me time to write the book, Boy Slut.
00:10:13
Speaker
Um, you know, I was sitting at home and I was doing my zoom Pilates and jacking off 5,000 times a day until my dick was raw. And then I'm like, all right, well, let's, let's fit this book we've been talking about. I'm trying to be work on forever. Let's do that. So it did give me an opportunity to just kind of sit home and write because literally there was nothing else I could do. Um.
00:10:35
Speaker
And that boy slot has really been the focus for the last like three years of my life. Um, and I'm so excited that it's out now. And yeah, it's been getting really good feedback. And especially from, it makes sense, especially from bisexual, pansexual, queer, fluid, polyamorous, kinky people, like,
00:10:59
Speaker
This book is for everyone, you know, I really think anyone can learn about how to overcome sexual shame, but it really is for, it's my love letter to the bi community in a sense.
00:11:10
Speaker
Awesome, awesome. Yeah, I went through a similar evolution with my book, which is about bisexual married men. And it's it's a little bit memoir like yours, but it's mostly oral history of other bi men who are married to women. And I also wouldn't have probably done it without the pandemic because it was like summer 2020. I had like nothing to do besides this podcast. And yeah,
00:11:38
Speaker
and like I just decided there's all these guys out there that are listening and nobody is talking about that experience and let me interview them and then it took like a year or two to figure out that this was a book and then to get the book deal and then actually writing the book is hard uh like that was hard that was harder than I thought but it's a long long process
00:12:02
Speaker
I have bad news for you. The writing the book is not the hardest part at all. Or at least it wasn't for me. Sorry, I can't speak for your experience. The anxiety that comes afterwards, the publicity, the going out, I think it sounds like our books are definitely a little bit different, but because I share so much about myself in this book,
00:12:27
Speaker
And I think there's this misconception for me, where because, you know, I also have like a digital zine called Boy Sluts, which is either great branding or confusing. But the digital zine is like nonfiction erotica, and I write really raunchy, kinky,
00:12:43
Speaker
Sex stories that are like over the not over the top. They're just intense and they're amazing and because I do this people are like Oh Zach, you're so open about everything in your life. I'm like, well No, I'm open sexually and I like me talking about my hairy asshole getting dp'd It isn't actually that vulnerable for the way that it is for other people. Yeah in this book I talk about my relationship, you know with my family I talk about past partners where
00:13:13
Speaker
I treated them poorly. Obviously that was not my intent. It was not malicious, but I hurt people along the way while I was closeted, while I was confused, when I didn't know how to communicate my feelings and kind of reliving that. And so this is just really personal and I have some opinions that I didn't even think were controversial, but apparently they are.
00:13:35
Speaker
and getting some feedback for that. And you know, of course, people read things through their own lens. That has been very clear to me, where I sometimes feel like they read a completely different book, where I'm like, how was that? Your takeaway from
00:13:54
Speaker
What I said, that's the exact opposite of what I said. I have sentences that shows that that's the exact opposite of what I said. But really, people read it through their own lens, and that can just be a challenging thing to overcome. So that's been very challenging for me. And I say this knowing that the vast majority of the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. And that's such
00:14:18
Speaker
an incredible feeling because I didn't fucking know I don't know you know obviously your editor tells it's it's good and the people who've read it are like it's great but getting these pretty much daily now I get emails or messages being like this book changed my life I feel so much less alone this mirrored my experience I'm able to embrace my kinks or even if it's not that deep it's um it's given me a lot to think about
00:14:41
Speaker
It's going to be a lot to reflect on my life. And I think I want to take my life in a different journey. I don't even know exactly what that journey is yet, but you've opened my eyes to new things.
Sexual Autonomy & Condom Use
00:14:50
Speaker
And so that is incredible. That is an absolutely incredible feeling and it has been the best part of writing this book.
00:14:58
Speaker
Awesome, awesome. Okay, I have so many questions to ask. I want to hear about this controversial stuff because it didn't strike me. Well, yeah, I get it. But also, I forgot to mention the newsletter or is it on Subsac Boy's List? Yes, Subsac.
00:15:15
Speaker
okay i've read a bunch of it it's awesome it's so funny and also like kinky and cool and wild and you've got great contributors doing stuff yeah it's not just me which is cool the writers from across the globe contributing
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah and it's great and I have to admit having read some of that I expected the book to be more of that and there's some of that but actually you're right it's much more personal outside of the bedroom for you and it's all about how you developed this by identity and how you confronted so much shame
00:15:53
Speaker
that I also had and how family even even a very progressive queer accepting family can can you know and other culture can like guide you yeah and fuck you up um so I want to talk about all that stuff and the shame but but okay but you mentioned it so what's been the most controversial stuff what have people uh reacted to in ways that are unexpected
00:16:19
Speaker
And really, no queer man has reacted. I mean, it's really the straight people who are taking an issue with this, which makes sense. But one thing that was more controversial that I didn't necessarily realize would be is I talk about sexual autonomy and being allowed to decide on the level of sexual risk that you would like to take.
00:16:41
Speaker
And I talk about this in regards to like wearing condoms. Now, if you are a queer man in New York City, Los Angeles, New York, you will notice that no one fucking wears condoms for grinder hookups, for sniffy hookups, for anything. The norm is not to do it. Since kind of the age of prep,
00:16:59
Speaker
We're not worried about getting HIV the same way. As for the other STIs, they are treatable. Syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, you get treated, you're okay, and you're okay accepting that level of risk, and clearly your partner's okay accepting that level of risk.
00:17:16
Speaker
And I think it's very important for sexual autonomy to be able to do this. And I kind of explain how, you know, as a society, we kind of impose almost somewhat arbitrarily at times what the level of sexual risk is that you're allowed to take. And here's what I mean. You have very few doctors being like, you should be wearing condoms during oral sex.
00:17:39
Speaker
Like, because they just know that's so unrealistic, so they don't push it. Like, I've never had a doctor say that to me. And yet you can get oral gonorrhea. You can get oral chlamydia. Fun fact, I've had both because I love sucking dick. And it's just like, yeah, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop sucking dick. This is something that brings me joy. I want to do it. I'm knowingly accepting the risk that I can get an STI while doing this.
00:18:04
Speaker
In me explaining that, like, oh, we should be allowed to accept the risks for not wearing condoms, I didn't think that was going to blow up people's spot. I make it very clear. I'm like, if you want to wear, you absolutely should wear condoms. This is your choice. But if you are getting tested often, you're honest with your partners about it.
00:18:25
Speaker
Um, cause honestly, like the people, so many people lie about their statuses about the last time they got tested. People are very manipulative and coercive trying to not wear condoms. And that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about that fuck boy who's like, I can't come if I wear condoms. So like, I'm going to like, please let me not wear it. It's like, no, you respect people's boundaries. Um,
00:18:48
Speaker
And one thing I did is I compared kind of sexual autonomy and condom use to a common philosophy in kink and BDSM culture called rack, which is risk-aware consensual kink.
00:19:00
Speaker
Um, and what that means is you kind of knowingly accept certain risks while having certain like intense BDSM X. And of course you still do your best to mitigate the risks. So like if you're getting tied up, you have a pair of safety shears next nearby. So that way you can cut, cut them loose very quickly in case they're losing circulation.
00:19:20
Speaker
You have safe words. If you're using choking, you have a safety action. Often it is like tapping someone out. If this person is getting tied up and you're doing choking, often what they have is you hold something in your hand like a squeaky toy, and if you drop the ball, then you know that person has passed out and you have to stop. So there's a lot of precautions that you take, but you still take these risks, and you're allowed to take these risks.
00:19:48
Speaker
But what RAC is contingent upon is education and information. You cannot take these risks unless if you have all the information possible. And that means sexual health information, you have to trust that your partners are being honest to you and they're not lying to you. And I think you should be allowed to kind of make these
00:20:13
Speaker
choices as to what you're going to take. Sex is always risky. There's always risk involved. That's why sex experts, and myself included, have moved away from saying safe sex to safer sex. That's because condoms break. They're not effective in protecting against HSV, herpes, and also syphilis, which are skin-to-skin contact.
00:20:35
Speaker
They're not 100% effective in preventing pregnancies. There's always a risk that you take. There's always an emotional risk that you take. And I would argue that the emotional risks I've taken during sex and my heartbreak is a lot worse than the times I've gotten drip from my dick and then I go on and get antibiotics and I'm fine 24 hours later.
00:20:54
Speaker
Mental health is part of your overall health and we sometimes minimize it as like something you can get over but it's yeah mental health matters too. And so I explain this I think some straight people were kind of shocked to learn that like queer men don't wear condoms the way that they used to and they don't really wear them for sexual encounters of course I'm not trying to generalize there are plenty of queer men that still do
00:21:21
Speaker
But not as many, and the norm is not to, and I can say that. And it was like, sometimes people like would be writing like Zach's reckless anti-cavalier, anti-condom use, and I'm like,
00:21:35
Speaker
What the fuck? That's not at all what I'm advocating for. Part of this chapter is really discussing how STIs are shaming. The point of STIs is to shame people. It is slut shaming people. The history of it is extremely racist and xenophobic. You know, if you think of AIDS is a great example where
00:21:56
Speaker
It was considered the gay disease, and this is what you get for being gay. Or it was also considered a black or Haitian disease, and it's like, oh, well, it's a black people get it. So it was racism, homophobia, and that's where this STI shaming came from. So a part of this chapter is like, hey, we shouldn't be shaming people for having STIs. And in fact, if we didn't shame people for having STIs, people would be more honest. People would be more likely to get tested. People would communicate more, and we'd have
00:22:25
Speaker
less STIs if we're communicating and being honest about this. And so I thought I did a decent job conveying this. Me too. Perhaps I did not. Perhaps there are ways, or perhaps just people are so ingrained for condoms, condoms, condoms, condoms, and I understand, and people are so not aware of queer culture. But I was just like, what?
00:22:47
Speaker
Interesting. And the majority of reviews I'm getting are overwhelmingly positive. And if I get a negative review, like, this is it. This is why. And I'm like, Oh, fuck. Like, I guess it was more controversial than I thought. But
00:23:04
Speaker
Well, not to me. I mean, this part resonated with me a lot. I found the same thing, which was before I came out as bi and started having more sex with people of different genders, like I was afraid of STIs. I bought into the conventional wisdom about condoms, even though I
00:23:25
Speaker
If you want to use condoms, you should still use condoms. They're your first line of defense against STIs. They are great. I still wear condoms with many of my partners, especially my female partners who are not in the scene. Also, an STI for penis is different than an STI for vagina or vulva, and it's a lot
00:23:43
Speaker
It's much easier to deal with penises than it is. So I understand it can affect pregnancy. Like I understand all of this, but I'm just like, so I don't want to make it seem like I'm never doing like, anyway, you can tell I'm sensitive about this. Cause I'm like, people are fucking saying shit. I'm like, did I mess up? Like, you know what I mean? Interesting. Interesting. Well, it makes sense because this is, that's the culture we live in. It's, I mean, so many straight people and especially straight women I've met.
00:24:10
Speaker
want to use a condom all the time and and like you said it you have to respect a partner's choice and respect those boundaries and it's a very different thing to be the fuck boy who's like i can't have sex without a condom versus like okay we can do that just so you know like here's what i need if we're wearing a condom for me to be like aroused and stay hard and like yeah that's a great conversation to have and very respectful
00:24:35
Speaker
Anyway, the first time I had anal sex ever, it was quite vigorous. And the next day I had this two little sort of pimples on my dick. And I freaked the fuck out. And I was like, oh my god, anal sex leads to disease. Why did I ever do this? I should have just been straight.
00:24:55
Speaker
And I talked to my doctor about it, who's a straight woman. And she, I didn't, it wasn't a great conversation with her. It made me feel more ashamed and I wasn't sure what was going on. And she suggested, or actually it was my therapist who suggested I see a gay male doctor who knew about this stuff. And he basically told me the philosophy that you're talking about, which is,
00:25:21
Speaker
you should get on PrEP. HIV is a, you know, it's not the end of the world like it once was, but it's something you should try to avoid. And it's very easy to avoid. You take this pill once a day.
00:25:36
Speaker
you're 99.9% guaranteed to not get HIV and he said and then you don't have to worry about it and everything else is treatable and it's you know it's not fun to have these other things but everything is treatable uh and and and if you're on prep you're getting tested every three months so you're aware of stuff and you can
00:25:59
Speaker
hard things off. And that's how I've lived since then. And it makes a lot of sense. My doctor even checks in, he'll be like, so would you have sex with the HIV positive person? And I'm like, well, I'm on PrEP. So yeah. And he's like, correct. It's almost like a test. He's like, hilarious doctor at this point.
00:26:22
Speaker
being sensitive but he's like testing me and he's like and what about other diseases are you scared of those and i'm like well i don't want them but i'm not scared of them i'm not trying to get it that's not the goal here i ask people about their status like
00:26:36
Speaker
And you can figure out different levels that work for you and that like, so I have a female partner now and kind of our rule is I get tested every six weeks anyway, because I am a boy slut. And that's, if you go any longer than that, you're like a shit, how long have I had this? How many people do I need to tell? But I get tested very frequently.
00:26:55
Speaker
And kind of what we do now is after I get tested, it comes back negative. We raw dog to our heart's fucking contents for about whatever it is, usually about three weeks. And then at that point I'm like, okay, there's this gay sex party I want to go to. I'm not going to be wearing condoms there. Then we just wear condoms for the next three weeks. We both complain about it, but we do it.
00:27:18
Speaker
You know, I lovingly complain about being like, fuck, I wish I could do this. And then when I get tested again, and it comes back negative, we do it. So like half the time we're wearing condoms, and that's what makes her feel safe. It's the way we do it. It's clear that she trusts me. She knows I'm not lying to her. And it's a way for us for her to feel comfortable and happy and having sex.
00:27:36
Speaker
And for me to feel comfortable and happy and having sex. And if she wanted me to wear a condom every single time, of course I would too. I love her and this is the way we'd have sex, you know? And that's completely great. Or conversely, I'd have to decide whether I want to cut down my shenanigans with other people. Which is a... Don't do that. Yeah, exactly. Don't do that. So like, you know, that's what works for us. And that is different than what works for other people. And that's okay. It's your fucking choice with your partner's consent.
00:28:04
Speaker
I like that compromise. That's a nice little negotiation of boundaries and that works. It's interesting though that that's the controversy and it reminds me of something you wrote that I wanted to read, which is about sort of unlearning what society teaches you. You wrote, here's the thing about unlearning what society teaches you. You still live in that society. While you may be more open or dare I say enlightened, most people are not. So you spend your life in opposition to the majority opinion.
00:28:33
Speaker
And you have to learn how to interact with everyone else in a manner that doesn't drive you completely bonkers. And now that, this relates to so many more things in the book about STIs and we'll get there in a second, but like, I think that's, there's such conventional wisdom about STIs that at least for me was ingrained for most of my childhood and, you know, up until like I started coming out and being surrounded by queer people who think differently.
00:29:01
Speaker
but it's hard to break out of it. And so I guess it's not that surprising you're getting that backlash from straight people. And also I just want to be like, you're a hundred percent lying to me. You a hundred percent have gotten drunk and not worn a condom. Like don't you fucking pretend that you've been a hundred percent perfect. Like I don't fucking buy it.
00:29:25
Speaker
If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you know that we are hosted by Zencaster and part of the Zencaster Creator Network. And I am very happy to be partnering with them because they have made my podcasting journey so much easier and better. When we started this podcast, we recorded in person in recording studios, which were expensive, or we used other software or Zoom or other makeshift ways of recording locally, which was not very easy.
00:29:55
Speaker
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00:30:23
Speaker
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00:30:52
Speaker
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00:31:19
Speaker
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00:31:47
Speaker
Okay so let's uh let's talk about like I mean this is sort of related and it's the the first or second chapter of the book which is about sexual shame. Tell us
Overcoming Sexual Shame
00:31:58
Speaker
I mean you your sexual shame also came with OCD which is interesting and I think I don't know that I had it
00:32:07
Speaker
to that degree but I had the same thing too and I would do stuff like check the alarm clock a lot and I also would question my sexuality over and over and not be sure and like and I think what was really clarifying that you wrote about was that
00:32:24
Speaker
you can't really overcome this stuff until you realize that it's okay, that these things are not bad, the thoughts you're having are not bad. And you talk about imagining people naked and your therapist helped you realize that like, that's okay. And then that helps you overcome it. Can you talk about that? Yeah, sure. It's so often
00:32:47
Speaker
You know, when we experience shame, I try to kind of get to the root of it, where it's just like, wait, why am I actually feeling this way? Is this because this is induced by religion, by my family? And essentially, I'm asking myself, is this something I actually think is wrong, like that I should not be doing? And this is behavior that is like unacceptable. And examples of that, you know, lying, cheating, you know, that stuff is like, no, no, in my core, I believe that these things are
00:33:16
Speaker
things I shouldn't be doing, or is this society trying to tell me this is wrong? Honestly, society shames us in various different ways because it's a way for people to maintain power. You know what I mean? We slut shame women to keep women tethered to men, to create and instill the patriarchy.
00:33:36
Speaker
To keep them lower, you know, the church uses it in a way to attack gay and queer people, to shame them and to, again, maintain and sustain power. So often I like to think like, who or what is trying to shame me? Whose voice am I hearing this in? Is this my mom's voice? Is this my pastor's voice?
00:33:57
Speaker
And if you can kind of get to the really root of it and be like, this is actually not something I think is bad. I don't think there's something that should be bad. It's kind of easier to say, fuck you to it. And then, you know, a big theme in this book that I talk about kind of is community and my ability to find this bisexual community.
00:34:16
Speaker
And you know, this is why you have your friends and you reach out to them. I feel like shame thrives in isolation. You know what I mean? When you kind of go through a shame spiral yourself and you're like, I'm bad. I'm terrible. I'm this. I shouldn't be doing this. And you don't talk to others about it. It just allows it to fester and grow and get worse. And so I think it's really important to have that friend group in that community where you're like, hey, I'm reaching out. I'm kind of feeling like shit about this.
00:34:44
Speaker
What do you guys think? And they'll be like, no, you have nothing to feel bad about. This is whatever it is. You don't need to feel shame. So really, yeah, like building that community, having that community, having people you can reach out to so you don't have to experience and kind of go through this all alone.
00:35:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And also you wrote something that really resonated with me as someone who also talks about the sex I'm having quite a bit, especially since coming out, which is you wrote, while having, you have a lot of sex, you write about that in the book, you wrote, while having sex with everyone is great, let me tell you what's even better, talking about sex with everyone.
00:35:24
Speaker
and I think that's so important because it's like you know there's a big spectrum of sexuality and not everyone wants to have sex all the time with every gender and be poly and whatever but the the real challenge I think is to be able to talk about this stuff no matter where you fall in this spectrum and I have a lot of like straight married friends and they they can do what they want and they can be happy having monogamous missionary sex but some of them are still
00:35:53
Speaker
tied up talking about it. And I think that's a hard hurdle is to just get comfortable talking about it. What do you think? We have more trouble talking about sex than actually having sex as a nation. And I want, and I've made this clear in your book, my goal is not for everyone to sleep with 10,000 people and to take loads in a sauna every single day of the week.
00:36:19
Speaker
If you want to, I do want you to embrace that and I love that for you. But this book is for people who are vanilla, people who are asexual, people who are demisexual, fluid, queer. It's owning your relationship with sex however that may look.
00:36:35
Speaker
in it, like the shame you feel is kind of contingent upon the society of the culture that you're in. And what I mean by that is like, if you are obviously the majority of the world and you're in a religious community is like slut shaming, that's the common one. But I get messages for like sexplain, Edmonds health being like,
00:36:52
Speaker
I feel like I'm not nearly sexual enough. I'm too prude. My boyfriend is saying I'm being ridiculous because I don't want to open up our relationship. And it's 2023, and every gay guy or bi guy in New York has an open relationship. And the fact that I want to wear condoms when everyone else does. And I'm like, first of all, your boyfriend's an asshole. They need to respect your relationship with sex. But in that situation, it's actually the prude shaming. The condom shaming is what the issue is.
00:37:21
Speaker
So, I want people to be able to talk about what their sex is and to own their desires. And one thing I make clear in this book is, and I have a section about this,
00:37:33
Speaker
I call it a peg for every hole, which we don't have to get into the kinks too much unless we want to. It gets fucking raunchy. But the whole point of a peg for every hole, not just a joke on pegging, but the thing is, no matter what your kink is, no matter what your relationship is with sex, whether you want to have it all the time, never have it, only have it with a certain type of person, only after an emotional connection, whatever the fuck it is, you can find someone.
00:37:59
Speaker
One of the most beautiful things I learned about myself over the years being a writer is that I am not special. My experiences are not special, my desires are not special, and by this I mean there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who have the same exact set cool desires and kinks.
00:38:19
Speaker
And that's very liberating to realize that I'm not alone. And that we live in this era where through field and fat life or scruff or sniffies, whatever the fuck, like you can actually more easily connect with people in a way that we haven't been able to. It's easier to find people that share your kinks or sexual desires than ever before. And
00:38:43
Speaker
That's incredible. The fact that we're able to do this and we can do so relatively safely from the anonymity of our own home, like on FetLife and just finding other people of similar kinks. We're really lucky because 100 years from now, if you had a fucking crazy kink, you got to tell one person at a bar and pray to God they're into it. Now, it's a lot easier.
00:39:07
Speaker
Like I see the book as like a choose your own journey type thing and really just like owning whatever your experience, whatever your relationship orientation is, sexual orientation, relationship with sex is.
00:39:19
Speaker
absolutely absolutely even things that are very very niche now you can find other people and often find other people who live near you and actually explore kind of almost anything um that really that it kind of brings me to something i want to talk about which is like sort of a buy thing but expanding beyond that which is that
00:39:41
Speaker
when I was first coming out and realizing I was bi, I thought that a lot of it had to do with gender and that a lot of my shame had to do with gender and that once I accepted my attractions to multiple genders that everything would kind of fall into place and it would all make sense and it was transformational but then it also opened up all these other doors to other things about sex and relationships and intimacy.
Beyond Gender: Sexuality Exploration
00:40:08
Speaker
that have nothing to do with gender. So like kinks and fetishes and like things that turn you on that are different from everything else. You also wrote in the book a lot about like dom sub dynamics which are in heteronormative culture often tied to gender but are actually not really inherent to gender. Anyone could be a dom, anyone could be a sub regardless of your gender. And then you also wrote about other things like
00:40:36
Speaker
that you might need in a sexual situation to turn you on, like lube or toys or other practical aids, music or lighting. So did you feel like it was all about gender at a certain point and then it opened up in the same way? Or did you learn about it differently? Exactly. I think because kind of the first and foremost, I had to be like, who the fuck do I want to fuck? You know what I mean? Like, who do I want to fuck? Who do I want to date? Who do I want to have a romantic relationship with?
00:41:06
Speaker
And when I'm second guessing every hookup being like, do I like this? Am I into this? Does this make me gay or am I straight? Am I bi? Like that was almost like, you know, Maslow's, Maslow's, what's his name? Hierarchy of needs. Like the first one is being like, who is it that I want, that I am attracted to? And then once that happens and you're like, oh, for me it was everybody. You know what I mean? The answer was D all the above.
00:41:35
Speaker
But once that happened, I was like, okay, now I kind of have more space in my brain to be like, okay, so beyond gender, what's next? What, AIDS turned me on. I did not start bottoming till a while after I came out. You know what I mean? And now I'm in a fucking black hole at this point. You know what I mean? But AIDS and now I love it. And if I'm having trouble coming, you just kind of shove a dildo up there and do that and I'll shoot like a geyser. You know what I mean?
00:42:04
Speaker
Like, that was another thing that I had to explore and figure out those sexual desires. Obviously, there are a million other sexual kinks and stuff that I'm into as well, and now I've been able to explore them. And I think there's a beauty to being bisexual. I think there are many beauties to being bisexual. But one, like, when you are
00:42:25
Speaker
kind of you're already now like considered alternative or queer or on the outskirts of it and you're no longer bound by like heteronormative scripts kind of the same way so it allows you to be like well people are judging me for being bi might as well get fucking weird with it too you know what i mean but you don't
00:42:42
Speaker
I feel like sometimes straight people, they're so locked into that box versus buy people are like, well, we weren't allowed into that box. So as queer people, we're going to create our own fucking boxes. So it actually, I think allowed me to explore more in a different way versus if I was straight, it actually might've been more challenging to explore those kinks because
00:43:04
Speaker
there are those set and hard, hard and fast rules kind of the same. Yeah, but yeah, right. No, I feel I feel the same way. I also feel like if lube, like just lube hadn't been stigmatized in my brain so much.
00:43:20
Speaker
like it would have saved me a lot of questioning and confusion because like there was a time before I came out where I was having trouble getting staying hard with women because I was so in my head like do I really like women I'm thinking about men am I gay and and before that I had had no trouble but then this period I was having trouble and
00:43:42
Speaker
I never used lube. I just thought it wasn't cool or women didn't have it or want to use it. And now I'm like, if I'm not feeling something, just get me some lube and start touching for two minutes and I'm ready. I just like that sensation. It feels good.
00:44:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's in even this idea, like I pulled out lube kind of been in when I'm with women and because they were dryer and like literally like been yelled at. Yeah. Where they're like, I don't need that. I'm wet. This is I'm so turned on. I'm wet. This I'm like,
00:44:19
Speaker
But you can tell they had shame for not being wet. And I think elements of pop culture obviously perpetuate that. Like the song WAP, which I fucking love. And I quote in my book, and I'm obsessed with Cardi B. But you know what I mean? But if you take that literally being like, well, shit, I don't have a wet ass pussy. What's wrong with me? I feel shame. OK, I am wet enough. I don't want to use lube. So there are these kind of cultural things that then
00:44:48
Speaker
impact us. And in that case, that's a woman feeling shame for feeling like they aren't naturally wet enough or something like that, or a man feeling like, Oh, I didn't get my girl get quote unquote, you know, my girlfriend wet. And that's because I'm not did something wrong. They're not attracted to me. The sex is bets like it's so quick, the fucking spiraling out of control here.
00:45:09
Speaker
Right, exactly. And then and you're also right about like pressure to perform and how that's just sort of antithetical to actually, you know, performing and having a partner who, you know, is, is patient and open to, like, you write a lot about just asking for what you need and listening to the other person and not feeling like it's necessarily about
00:45:34
Speaker
something you're not giving or, but it's just something you like and something you need and it has nothing to do with the relationship itself. We're so afraid to ask for anything because we take rejection so personally. And so when you ask for what you want and you don't take rejections personally and you just kind of see it as information. Oh, I was interested in trying this. Oh, they're not into it. Okay. I'm glad I asked. Like that's it. That's the end of the conversation.
00:46:01
Speaker
Obviously, if they're a dick and they shame you and say that's gross, disgusting, of course you're going to internalize it, but that person's an asshole, you know what I mean? But for the most part, if you just take rejection or a no as information and not an attack on your self-worth or who you are as a person, it makes it easier to obviously be rejected. It makes it more likely for you to ask. And when you start asking for more things, I really do think you'll be surprised.
00:46:28
Speaker
What you will get you know how many times people be into it or say yes, yeah
00:46:33
Speaker
Right. Many times people are into stuff that you wouldn't know, or maybe they didn't know they were into it either. But also many times people I've found and I do this with other people is like, they may be indifferent to it. It may not turn them on, but they like that it turns you on. Or I mean, for me, there's many things other partners want to do that don't turn me on, but it's cool. It's not, it doesn't turn me off. As long as it doesn't turn me off, then I like that it gets you off.
00:47:03
Speaker
That's what Dan Savage calls like GGG right good game and giving and it's this idea where it's like You know, I get turned on seeing how turned on my partner is So it's something that's not like a hard no for me or even a soft no for me But I'm like, I'm not sure if I'd be super into that. Okay, you want me to dress up as a baby? Okay, you know that doesn't
00:47:25
Speaker
not necessarily for me, but if that's something that really turned you on and you want to do that, I'd do that with you. Again, not every time. I don't want that to become the standard or the norm of sex that we have. But like, I just give that example. But like, if it doesn't, you don't necessarily need someone who's obsessed with the same exact things that you are. They just need to be open to it and willing to kind of try it out for you.
00:47:55
Speaker
I also really liked what you wrote about anal stimulation and how life changing it was when you tried it and the orgasm is different. For me too, I mean, and you write a whole thing about what it really feels like. I've got a great chapter on butt sex, baby. I gotta have that written there, of course.
00:48:14
Speaker
You have to. I actually took a screenshot and sent it to my group of straight college friends who I bought all of them for Christmas a couple years ago, like vibrating anal toy, and very few of them have used it, or at least have admitted to me that they've used it. And I keep trying to tell them like, you don't know what you're missing. I mean, have an orgasm without it is nice. But to me that it feels like I'm sort of
00:48:42
Speaker
in control of the orgasm. And that's okay. When when I'm annually stimulated and having an orgasm, it's like, almost out of my control in a nice way in a way that's almost indescribable. It's like a whole body of sorts. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:49:01
Speaker
and I want to be clear like it takes some getting used to and I think I didn't realize that as well but I explained that in the book too where it's like first time I tried it I was drunk generally don't do things drunk you know what I mean like try new things drunk I was so nervous so I was drunk I was clenching for dear life I did not use enough lube
00:49:21
Speaker
I had not cleaned out or douched and was very worried about shitting on his dick. And I literally think I said like five times in the having sex. I'm like, I think I'm shitting on you. He was like, no, no, you're not. I'm like, what about that time? And he's like, no, you're not. And finally around the fifth time, he's like, if you shit, you shit, please stop asking. Which is just like, he was like, that's so fucking annoying.
00:49:42
Speaker
I get that. That would be a killer for me too if they kept asking anxiously every five seconds if they were shooting. And then I went to wipe the next day. I had fissures because I was clenching. It was extremely bloody.
00:49:56
Speaker
I was like, okay, you know what? This isn't for me. This is, I think I can, you know, there are so many bottoms in the world anyway. I'm doing the Lord's work by being a top because I know all the bottoms are complaining that they can't find a good top. So, you know, there's so many bottoms on the apps. It's crazy.
00:50:15
Speaker
I also love seeing which city you're in, what the difference is. Los Angeles is all bottoms, which is pretty funny. SF I saw had more tops. New York is more versed, but it's like Brooklyn's more tops, like Manhattan's more bottoms.
00:50:31
Speaker
Again, this is all conjecture. This is not scientifically proven here. It's been my experience and you can definitely see some definitely some foreign countries like ones that have like more homophobia. I've noticed a lot more tops like
00:50:45
Speaker
Yeah, whatever it is. But, um, yeah, I eventually kind of fell in love with bottoming through, uh, it was like a woman who helped me fall in love with bottoming in a way where she was like, Zach, like you've been doing this all wrong. Let me teach you how to do it. And, um, I don't want to spoil the chapter too much, but like it was like a Pandora's box. You know what I mean? Like all of a sudden she did this. I'm like, Holy shit, this is fucking awesome.
00:51:11
Speaker
And then I was like, all right, stick something in. Every time I'm like, let's do it. Gotta have something in the asshole here. And she's like, I just kind of want to have a mission. I'm like, nope, something in the asshole. Let's do it. I've since mellowed out. You know what I mean? But I think it was just so exciting in the beginning, too. And it still is quite exciting.
00:51:29
Speaker
it is it is and you have to really like give in to the sensation almost if you it's similar right if you fight it it's not going to be fun if you really just let go and don't worry about shitting then it's it's great yeah
00:51:45
Speaker
Oh yeah, I was gonna say there's this new party in New York that I haven't been to yet but I kind of want to try it and I think you wrote about a similar party in your magazine online. It's called Load Star and there's like a bunch of bottoms, ass up, just waiting and then the tops come in and you sample all the holes and then at the end choose the one to bequeath your load to.
00:52:15
Speaker
the glass slipper of holes and whoever gets the most lords is the Lord star and the interesting thing is they always they always have enough bottoms by the time the email goes out they're like we are full of bottoms if you're bottom you you can't come to this one sign up for another one we've got enough but they're like tops please come we need please please really try to get the tops there
00:52:40
Speaker
I love gay sex parties. I think that is my takeaway from it. Fucking hilarious. And I've been to a party like that. I went to one called Meat Market, a once a month party. And that name is used by a bunch of places in Amsterdam. And it was at this mansion-esque place. I think there were like 200 bottoms and like 30 tops.
00:53:04
Speaker
But the difference for that was they actually wore hoods so they could not see who was fucking them, and they weren't allowed to say no. So they had a red hood if they wanted condoms, a white hood if they didn't. There was, I think, two people who wanted condoms, the rest did not. And if they wanted a break, they had to raise their hand and someone, the moderator, not moderators,
00:53:29
Speaker
Whoever the people running the event would come Grab them with their masks and escort them to a room where they can finally take off their mask and take a break And I was very I was just new to coming out when I went to this party and I remember being like And now I would love to go as a bottom but apparently I might not be able to unless if I sign up quick enough and
00:53:56
Speaker
You gotta sign up for next year. Sign up for next year. And again, it's the same thing where they would mark you, tally you, your ass every time you got a... For that, I think it was fucked, not just a load. And then it's like the winner gets like free entry to the next one, which was like 22 euros. You know what I mean? Like the thing was like literally nothing. Absolutely not a real prize.
00:54:21
Speaker
The winner gets good and truly fucked and a lot of cum. Yeah. Yeah, you won. They're all winners. When it comes down to it, every single person there is a winner, and I stand by that. Speaking of gay sex parties, this is a non sequitur, but I was just at one this week where the theme song to White Lotus came on. Oh, I love that that happens. It was really, really good. It was like the right vibe. It was kind of like,
00:54:48
Speaker
Was it a techno remix or was it that one? It was like a techno remix. There is like a circuit party white lotus theme song remix. You gotta love the gays. They are on top of their shits. Jennifer Coolidge was onto something until she was not onto something. Yeah, exactly. No spoilers. God, that's funny.
00:55:11
Speaker
Okay, let's talk about porn for a minute.
Porn & Sexual Expectations
00:55:16
Speaker
Let's go back a little. This is an earlier chapter in your book, but it's, you know, porn is a gateway for so many people. Your book boy slot, there's the book. Buy it. I haven't been promo-ing it enough.
00:55:28
Speaker
Yeah, so it's, you know, we've talked a lot on this show about how it's this gateway, it's like a safe way to sort of explore different fantasies, and that's great. But what I, what was kind of new-ish for me in the book was about this question of, can you be addicted to porn? And even if you can't, you know, maybe it's not so binary that even if you're not addicted, porn is good in many ways, but you should examine if your relationship with porn is serving you well, actually.
00:55:58
Speaker
How do you find that balance or what's your take on that? The inability to have nuance when discussing porn is mind boggling to me. Just like everyone's like, it is the best. It is great. It allows you to explore your fantasies. The anti-porn people are completely wrong and religious and pushing it like, like porn is great in every aspect of it is great. And like there are even like some sex educators who kind of frame it in that way. And then you have obviously the anti-porn people who are
00:56:26
Speaker
against any form of consensual sex whatsoever, seemingly, and believe that it's all exploitation, it's all trafficking. It's like, obviously, that's not true. And I fall somewhere, obviously, in the camp of I think porn can be a great thing. However, we should analyze our relationship with it. And there's still a debate in the medical community
00:56:48
Speaker
about whether or not porn addiction, addiction, quote, unquote, is real. And I'm like, who fucking cares? Like, if it's having a negative impact on your life, you should reconsider your relationship with porn. If you're jacking off to the point that your dick is raw and bloody, you need to stop. If you're jacking off at the office at work, and you're doing that every single day, and you're now late to work, you're missing meetings, if your wife wants to have sex with you, and you don't want to have sex with her because you're jerking off all day, like,
00:57:18
Speaker
Like, like, let's acknowledge that it can have a negative impact in your life. However, if it is not and you're just experiencing shame because you think porn is bad and sex is bad, well, no, fuck that. Enjoy your porn. Enjoy the raunchy, crazy shit that you're watching and enjoying and go to town. And of course, recognize that, you know, real sex is not porn and porn is not sex. It is performative. It is different. Do not compare yourself.
00:57:44
Speaker
To these porn stars who have 15 inch dicks who are also taking Viagra who can go for hours and they add out any time They can't get hard, you know what I mean? So just recognizing that this is fantasy but like this shit Should not be this complicated and the way that everyone talks about it I'm like there's such clear answers to this and like and yet people are just either like so in one camp that they're so blinded and
00:58:11
Speaker
And I'm like, no, I think porn is a beautiful and great thing. I fucking love watching porn. There've been times in my life where I felt like, I don't know if this was benefiting me. I think I was watching it so much that I didn't want to go on dates or have sex with other people and like, okay, let's take a step back. And I did. And now I have a healthy relationship with it. So just be honest with yourself, analyze it. And again, don't shame yourself for any of it.
Healthy Porn Consumption
00:58:34
Speaker
I think that's the important thing to note. Like there's nothing wrong with having these fantasies. There's nothing wrong with jacking off like, but
00:58:41
Speaker
Yeah, beyond that, enjoy it, analyze it, have fun with it.
00:58:46
Speaker
Right, exactly. I love porn. But yes, you have to analyze it and your relationship with it. And in that period I was talking about where I was unsure of my sexuality and having trouble performing with anyone, I started, I went down this internet rabbit hole about porn-induced ED and this like no-fap communities of like sexually frustrated men. Yeah, that's not a good rabbit hole to go down.
00:59:16
Speaker
I came to that conclusion eventually but I liked what you wrote about in the book like what was your you also wrote about like sometimes when you're fucking a real person you start imagining porn to stay hard and like how do you break out of that I've talked about this with my therapist so I have some answers too but your journey with that
00:59:36
Speaker
I think a lot of it was, yeah, there was a time where I was struggling getting hard and like I could only get hard or come if I was imagining porn. And I was like, do you know what? Let's take a step back from porn. And, but like kind of the research shows that like porn induced ED is, it's kind of adjacent to it. What's happening is actually what you're craving is this novelty seeking and these new things. So actually the focus should be on doing new and exciting things with your partner and focusing on your partner.
01:00:03
Speaker
The issue kind of becomes if you're actually having more stale sex or stuff that you're not enjoying with your partner, then your brain goes to porn. But if you're keeping things exciting, trying new things and novelty, your brain is less likely to go to porn. However, sometimes it's easier to just think about porn than to have that conversation with your partner being vulnerable and being like, I want to try new things. I feel like a relationship.
01:00:27
Speaker
Again, you don't have to say I feel like our sex life was stale. There are other ways around that instead of being like, hey, I would really love to try these new things with you and then list those. So the answer there is like, okay, actually let's lean in more to our partner and try new things instead of relying on our thoughts. But sometimes I'm the same fucking way. I still have this where it's just like, you know, like sex is good. I need that little push over the edge to come. So I imagine something nasty as fuck in my head. Great. Fine. You know what I mean? There's nothing wrong with that.
01:00:57
Speaker
actually this is what my therapist said to me which is like you know there's there's sort of the best way i think i found to deal with it is you gotta get out of your head when you're in that loop if you can and the best way for me to do that is to
01:01:12
Speaker
focus on actual sensations in my body and not worry about, in that moment at least, not worry about pleasing my partner and not worry about performing or what they're thinking of me, which is a vicious downward spiral when you start thinking of stuff like that, but just feel your body and feel what feels good and ask for what feels good.
01:01:35
Speaker
But another thing actually is it's okay to think about porn. Like the real bad part was when I would imagine porn to get hard and then tell myself that's bad that I'm doing that and then worry that my partner could tell that I'm doing that and then it doesn't work. Then it's a really bad thing.
01:01:53
Speaker
Do you have any guys I've blown while they're watching porn? Like it's much more accepted in the gay community to be like, yeah, we want that extra stimulation. It feels good. And you kind of know they're imagining someone else, but like, it's still hot because I love sucking dick and they're still enjoying it. And like, yeah, well, like I've definitely sucked a dozen, if not more dicks where they're just watching porn on the screen and it's kind of hot hearing the moaning in the background. Like that's fine.
01:02:18
Speaker
right yep yeah once you let go of the the idea that these things are bad or even should be shameful then then you can kind of move past them
01:02:31
Speaker
You're listening to the Season 6 premiere of Two Bye, guys. Thanks so much for being here. The free version of this episode is almost over, but there's even more bonus content on my Patreon. There's about 20 more minutes of this episode over there. We talked about Zach's porn star boyfriend. We talked about our thoughts on starting our own OnlyFans and collaborating. We talked about sexual queerness versus cultural queerness.
01:02:56
Speaker
non-monogamy and polyamory and Zach's journey with those things, and we also talked about the play parties that Zach has been hosting in New York, Boy Slut and Buy Slut. So check out my Patreon, you can find a link in the show notes for this episode, or in the link tree on the To Buy Guys profile on all of our social media,
01:03:17
Speaker
Or you can head to Patreon and search for Two Bye Guys, or for me, Robert Brooks Cohen. If you subscribe, you'll get more bonus content for every future episode. You'll also get early access to the episodes and a completely ad-free experience. You can listen to the whole episode there, the full episode without ads. So check it out and thank you so much for your support and for listening to Two Bye Guys.
01:03:46
Speaker
Thank you so much for being here, Zach. Time number two on Two Bye, guys. It's a first. It's great to have you back and talk about the next level of your bye journey and the book. Where can people buy the book? Where can people find you and your work? Yeah, I mean, you can buy it everywhere books are sold, you know, Amazon too. It's Boy Slut, one word. If you do two words, you start getting into some weird shit.
01:04:15
Speaker
But yeah, you can buy it on that. You can buy it on a bookshop, local bookstores. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram. I'm more active on Instagram. I'm trying to get off Twitter for my mental health. It is a slow process. But that is Zachary Zane underscore. I have the digital zine, the erotica thing. If you just type in boy slut, that will also come up. It's the sub stack. And then just ZacharyZane.com. If you want to reach out, ask questions, all that good stuff.
01:04:40
Speaker
awesome check out his work check out the men's health column the z in the book everything boy slot zachary zane the professional bisexual mega influencer thank you thanks for coming back and being here awesome thank you so much
01:04:59
Speaker
2 by Guys is produced and edited by me, Rob Cohen, and it was created by me and Alex Boyd. Our logo art is by Caitlin Weinman, our music is by Ross Mincer, we are supported by the Gotham, and we are part of the Zencaster Creator Network. Use promo code 2 by Guys to get 30% off. Thanks for listening to 2 by Guys.