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Getting Bi: A Pandemic Wellbeing Check-In
1.3k Plays5 years ago
Two Bi Guys is created and hosted by Alex Boyd and Rob Cohen
Logo art by Kaitlin Weinman
Music by Ross Mintzer
Season 2 is executive produced by Rob Cohen and produced by Alex Boyd and Moxie Peng, with support from IFP
Mental health and wellbeing resources:
Trevor Project (suicide prevention for LGBTQ+ youth): https://www.thetrevorproject.org/
Suicide Prevention Lifeline: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
BEAM - Black Emotional And Mental Health: https://www.beam.community/
SAGE - Advocacy & Services for LGBT Elders: https://www.sageusa.org/
Psychology Today (find a therapist): https://www.psychologytoday.com/us
RAINN - Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (& National Sexual Assault Hotline): https://www.rainn.org/
National Domestic Violence Hotline: https://www.thehotline.org/
National Child Abuse Hotline: https://www.childhelp.org/hotline/
Take the census! https://2020census.gov/
Register to vote! https://vote.gov/
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Transcript
Introduction: Focus on Mental Health and LGBTQ Youth
00:00:11
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Two Bye Guys. I'm Rob. And I'm Alex. And today we're gonna do a little mental health and well-being check-in and discuss what's been going on with us during the pandemic, which is causing
00:00:26
Speaker
Lots of mental health issues out there, and dig into Alex's work a little. He's been working at the Trevor Project, so kind of on the front lines of this. Yeah, we obviously all experience some sort of well-being difference since COVID, but also being able to see this on a wider scale. I work with LGBT youth at risk of suicide, have spoken directly to them, have worked in larger capacities too, being able to kind of see that bigger picture.
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's been an interesting time for folks in my organization for sure.
00:00:58
Speaker
Yeah, I bet. I mean, it has none of this is easy for anyone.
Pandemic's Mental Health Impact
00:01:02
Speaker
But some of the statistics that have come out lately just made us want to have this conversation. And believe it or not, like a pandemic like this, it's not something we've lived through. You know, it's something new. It's something that is inevitably and due to all kinds of other factors, too. This is a new height of risk of mental harm difficulty than maybe anything we've experienced in our lifetime.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, you know, that first few weeks of it was so intense and so traumatic, especially in New York. And at the time, I just thought, let's get through these few weeks. And now it's become this ongoing thing where our daily lives are affected in so many ways.
CDC Statistics and Mental Health Challenges
00:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, COVID is not the only thing we're experiencing right now either. COVID is one thing that has maybe affected us more than anything else, but the actual level of protests happening in this country due to brutality committed by cops against black folks and seeing, you know, millions of people out on the street. And on top of that, we also have just a very toxic political atmosphere, regardless of what side you're on. There's so much toxicity there. So I think it is
00:02:14
Speaker
It's just a matter of it becoming a perfect storm a little bit. And I think it's important to start talking about kind of how do we take care of ourselves? How do we take care of each other? Right. Yes, that sounds great. And the perfect storm, I mean, on top of everything,
00:02:30
Speaker
and a charged political climate, we have possibly the most important and anxiety-provoking election season that I've ever lived through. And I thought the ones in the past were tough to deal with. And this one, just thinking about the election, which is not very far away,
00:02:50
Speaker
gives me anxiety, especially on top of the pandemic and with the pandemic affecting what could happen in the election.
LGBTQ Youth and Mental Health Support
00:02:58
Speaker
It's a perfect storm. It's insane. And so the statistics that have been released recently, even though I knew this was affecting people's mental health and well-being, I was kind of shocked by some of these statistics. So the CDC released some findings on Thursday, August 13th. They found
00:03:18
Speaker
that 40% of all adults have reported at least one mental or behavioral health condition. 31% of all adults said they'd experienced symptoms of anxiety or depression. 26% also said they'd experienced trauma or stressor-related disorder symptoms. And with 160,000 people dead and millions of cases causing long-term physical damage,
00:03:46
Speaker
That's very traumatic, and so that's understandable. 13% said they'd started or increased substance use, and 11% said they had seriously considered suicide in the last 30 days, which is directly related to your job, and actually even more directly related since you work with youth at the Trevor Project.
00:04:08
Speaker
Among 18 to 24 year olds, 75% have said that they've had at least one adverse mental or behavioral health symptom. So it's 40% for all adults, but it's 75% of 18 to 24 year olds.
00:04:23
Speaker
And then if you go down to that suicide statistic, 26% have seriously considered suicide within 30 days. One in four, which I'm guessing is higher than usual. I don't know what it normally is, but that is a lot. We all probably know someone if it's not you.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it's important to remember that these rates were pretty high to begin with for certain populations, too. Unfortunately, the CDC is not very adept at capturing LGBT well-being, for example, because they disregard the existence of those folks.
00:05:00
Speaker
There is no kind of breakdown of LGBTQ Americans versus straight and cis Americans. But we also know that historically speaking, LGBTQ Americans overall have always experienced higher levels of all of these mental health disorders. Higher instances of substance abuse and suicidal ideation of course too. That's why the organization I work for exists. So the Trevor Project is a suicide prevention
00:05:27
Speaker
agency.
Critique of Data Collection and Minority Stress
00:05:28
Speaker
We work in texts, chat, and phone platforms, and we work with LGBTQ youth at risk of suicide ages 13 to 24. That isn't to say that we don't also hear from people even younger than 13 or older than 24.
00:05:43
Speaker
but our service is very much so tailored and focuses on serving those individuals. What you get when you call the Trevor Lifeline or when you text into our texting platform, it's essentially a conversation with a counselor who is very much so trained to work specifically with crisis. So really just kind of deescalating a crisis situation and making sure that somebody has a place to talk about that because LGBTQ youth especially
00:06:08
Speaker
may not be out, may not have the avenue to actually have these conversations in the same way that straight and cis youth do, especially when the struggles that they experience are often ingrained in their identity. But yeah, essentially I have much experience with those individual crises of suicide, child abuse, homicidal ideation, anxiety,
00:06:32
Speaker
and depression that have all increased since the pandemic started. The CDC hasn't released those numbers because they just don't look at children at all. Why? In this study anyways. Because children are less Americans, less capable of that status, I guess. I don't know. The CDC has a lot of flaws in the way that their research, like we said, no children and no queer folks apparently. Problematic. Yeah. And it's also worth flagging that
00:06:59
Speaker
even across gender, just while we're on this track, even across gender in CDC releases.
00:07:05
Speaker
The last I saw had 10 individuals out of thousands who were not men or women, non-binary folks, meaning 0.2% of their respondents, which is wildly unhelpful for our ability to actually see how those folks are struggling. Right. Especially among young people where those numbers are growing faster than among any other group.
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, totally. I mean, pop quiz, there are definitely more than 0.2% of the youth who are non-binary in some capacity. And just to see so much overlooked there is concerning and just gives caution to our kind of investment and information that CDC releases. And also, I know that something that's been good for me during this pandemic has been like,
00:07:59
Speaker
the fact that I had already sort of gone to therapy and discussed my sexual orientation and like come to terms with it and have a podcast about it that like we could still do in the pandemic and all of that's very affirming and I can imagine if you're not yet out or you're not yet even come to terms with
00:08:21
Speaker
your own orientation or gender identity or you're figuring that stuff out or you're living with parents who don't know or family members or friends who don't know like that would exacerbate the anxiety and depression that is coming with the pandemic. And so to not even be studying both youth and LGBT people let alone the intersection of youth and LGBT identities
00:08:47
Speaker
is kind of crazy. Yeah. You know, this is a hard conversation. I think it's worth flagging that this is too bad, guys. But unfortunately, having a discussion about bi mental health right now, bi male mental health even right now is almost impossible because there just really isn't a breakdown for bi folks specifically right now. Yeah. So we are generally going to be talking probably about LGBTQ folks today in general.
00:09:12
Speaker
just knowing that bi folks have historically experienced everything we're talking about at a higher rate than everyone else in the community, except for trans folks, of course. Trans folks experiencing things at an even higher level, of course.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. And actually there was a recent study I just saw that is not related to the pandemic, but it is specific to bi people. It's a new study published
Risks and Resilience in LGBTQ Youth
00:09:35
Speaker
in the Journal of Effective Disorders that found that bi people have up to six times the odds of engaging in non-suicidal self-injury versus heterosexual people. So six times, but also four and a half times the odds
00:09:52
Speaker
when compared to gay men. So this fits with other research and statistics that we've talked about in past episodes that show that negative health outcomes are higher for bisexual people than for gay people or lesbian people. So it just points to the fact that the stigma and misunderstanding of bisexuality is uniquely difficult to deal with.
00:10:22
Speaker
So the Trevor Project does release a national survey. Basically, it's the national survey on LGBTQ youth mental health. And again, this is this is before COVID 40% of LGBTQ youth respondents seriously considered attempting suicide in late last year.
00:10:39
Speaker
And I think it's worth flagging that another set that 86% of LGBTQ youth said that recent politics have negatively affected their well-being. So this is the politics of 2019 that's they're really talking about at this point. 2020. Which is even worse.
00:11:00
Speaker
This is another thing that specific to the Trevor Project's mission is really important to is that 10% of LGBTQ youth reported undergoing conversion therapy with 78% reporting it occurred when they were under 18. So that isn't just homophobia. That's also saying that you need to now do something about it, that you need to actually take part in something to change who you are, which is proven in countless studies, every study that's ever existed on it.
00:11:30
Speaker
to have negative effects on those folks' well-being.
00:11:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I cannot really imagine what that's like. I can only relate it to, it caused me such mental anxiety and mental health issues to not be out and to have thoughts in my head that I couldn't say out loud. But then on top of that, to be gaslit in that way and to be told that what you know and feel in your heart is like,
00:12:00
Speaker
bad and you need to change it and that you can change it, which is all not true and is bullshit, I can understand why that would be very stressful. Yeah. And two other steps that I've just flagged for myself in this study, the Trevor Project also found that one in three LGBTQ youth reported that they had been physically threatened or harmed in their lifetime due to their LGBTQ identity.
00:12:24
Speaker
So that is not they were once physically threatened. They were once physically threatened because of their identity. And another one is that 29% of LGBTQ youth have experienced homelessness, been kicked out, or run away. That is a traumatic experience that
00:12:40
Speaker
informs the way folks respond to years to come, right, if not decades to come. And so how, I mean, maybe we're jumping ahead a little, but how do you deal with that? I mean, what are the coping mechanisms or what do you do to work with people who've experienced that?
00:12:56
Speaker
Yeah, well, and maybe a one starting point to kind of segue there. Sure. The fact that nowadays, under this, through this pandemic, we're all quarantining at some point in the last year. And these folks who were talking about these young people who were talking about having run away, been kicked out, or, you know, been homeless, there is either not that option right now, and they're trapped in a situation that they want to run away from, or
00:13:22
Speaker
that's happening and it's putting them at much more inflated risk right now because now there's a pandemic on the streets therefore their their life's literally more in danger nowadays right you know it's hard sometimes because it hasn't always been a higher number of calls a higher number of people reaching out on chat and text but instead a higher
00:13:43
Speaker
rate of crisis. There are less and less folks who are at that lower end of crisis where it's manageable and more and more folks at that higher end of needing something to happen today or else they are in fill-in said danger. Whether it's parents or a partner, there is an increased threat of violence and harm to those folks right now. So the approach that I think
00:14:08
Speaker
anybody in that situation, anybody in a situation of abuse or domestic violence or anything like that is going through is to make sure that if things get to a point or if things are currently at that point where that is a space that you can't be in anymore, that you figure out what the escape plan is. Escape plans, it doesn't mean we're suggesting people run away from home if they're a 13-year-old who hates their parents.
00:14:34
Speaker
But it does mean that developing a plan of what happens if your life is literally in danger at this moment, or if you literally can't stay there at risk of taking your own life.
00:14:49
Speaker
It's important to figure out who those supportive folks are in your life. Reach out to those folks and figure out if you can take shelter with somebody in that moment, which is increasingly difficult because of the pandemic, of course. But if your life is in danger, then any level of burden that you're putting on somebody else or you feel that you're putting on somebody else is probably worth your life, right? Like it's probably worth it to save your life.
00:15:10
Speaker
And just making sure if that is the case even, it sounds awful, but calling emergency services and just calling 911 is something that people have to take advantage of in some cases. Nobody ever wants to talk to police, especially where we're also having this huge protest movement against police violence.
00:15:33
Speaker
and that isn't something that everybody's going to feel comfortable with and it's important to flag that in those situations there's also mobile crisis units that exist in some areas like just search mobile crisis unit in your town there may literally be professionals who are equipped to come to your home right now and talk to you about your suicidal ideation if that's what you're experiencing right to bring you to a hospital if that's what you feel like you need or something like that
00:15:57
Speaker
So the point is that there's a lot of resources out there.
Therapy, Routines, and Self-Care During the Pandemic
00:16:01
Speaker
Unfortunately, it's just concentrated in areas that are generally kind of holding up better, more rural areas, middle of the country. Those places are unfortunately where those resources are fewer and far between.
00:16:13
Speaker
Right. There is one study that was published on June 17th that is about LGBT people. It's called Depression and Anxiety Changes Among Sexual and Gender Minority People, coinciding with the onset of COVID-19 pandemic. You can look it up, but basically the main takeaway from it was that LGBT people who previously had anxiety or depression symptoms before the pandemic
00:16:40
Speaker
their symptoms didn't go away, but they also didn't increase very much during the pandemic. Whereas LGBT people who hadn't had those symptoms before, they have experienced a huge increase in depression and anxiety symptoms. And I think part of it, and they say that part of it, is because if you had these symptoms previously, you had some time to
00:17:07
Speaker
use resources and develop coping mechanisms and maybe come out to family and friends who could be supportive for you or maybe to find a therapist and also, you know, there's other kinds of support that if you can't turn to friends or family or can't afford a therapist,
00:17:25
Speaker
There are other kinds of support groups, like there's the buy request group that we go to that's virtual now, but there's also like, you know, we mentioned substance abuse increasing during the pandemic. There's also 12-step programs, if that describes you, but also a 12-step program that I attend is called Al-Anon.
00:17:44
Speaker
And people think that Al-Anon is the same as AA, and it's not the same even though the name sounds similar. Al-Anon is for family members or close friends of people with a substance abuse disorder. And Al-Anon, you know, not to plug it intensely, but it has been a really nice support for me because
00:18:08
Speaker
It's all about focusing on yourself and self-care and, you know, you can't control or change the addict or alcoholic in your life. But with COVID, there's so many other things we can't control and so many other things that are uncertain. And those meetings have been really helpful for me to become comfortable with the uncertainty and with the lack of control.
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah, and I do think that it's important to, you know, as somebody who's also looking for a therapist right now and struggling to, unfortunately, because I used to have a therapist a while ago, but unfortunately just didn't have health insurance for a few years, so wasn't able to maintain it for obvious reasons.
00:18:50
Speaker
Looking for a therapist is something that is especially difficult right now because so many people, I mean the unemployment numbers are at 10% right now and that 10% right now presumably does not have health insurance due to their unemployment. So this is not taking away from that. But if you do have health insurance, I always recommend Psychology Today as the easiest avenue to find therapists in your area. You can search by zip code. There's just so many filters on there too of what insurance you do have and they do have an
00:19:20
Speaker
They basically have, I believe it's broken down as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or questioning might even be on there too. But the point being that you can make sure that those therapists are specifically prepared to talk with you about any kind of identity that you do have.
00:19:38
Speaker
And for our Black listenership too, there's a website called BEAM. It's more than just a website, but it's the Black Emotional and Mental Health Collective. And it's just B-E-A-M dot community. And on there, there's a lot of resources to find a therapist too. Plenty of other resources on top of that too.
00:19:59
Speaker
Yeah, and HRC data from 2018 found that 17% of LGBT plus adults have no health coverage. And that's only 12% of non-LGBT adults have no health care. And among transgender people, it's 32% lack any form of coverage. So like, it's another irony of the queer community that the people who could benefit from mental health care the most are less likely to have it covered.
00:20:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:34
Speaker
So I am curious with all of this being said, Rob, to throw a question back your way. How is your mental health in your personal experience changing through this pandemic? Now, before this even, what has that looked like? And maybe your well-being to reframe as that even? You know, it's been up and down. There have definitely been times I've been getting into a routine and
00:21:01
Speaker
doing things to take care of myself and feeling more hopeful about the future so it you know it hasn't necessarily been five months of of doom and gloom but though but those periods have come like in between some some pretty intense stuff and you know i have been seeing a therapist i started seeing them because i was struggling with my bisexual identity
00:21:25
Speaker
that was super helpful but through therapy I sort of realized that I had always been suffering from anxiety greater than average and luckily I had been able to develop strategies for it and one of the things that's the most helpful is just being able to notice it and being able to talk about it
00:21:45
Speaker
But at the beginning of the pandemic, it was really difficult, especially being in New York City during those few weeks when we heard sirens every 10 minutes outside the window. I was very nervous that I would get COVID. I was even more nervous that my parents would get COVID and they're at much higher risk given their age. I was really nervous about that stuff.
00:22:14
Speaker
you know, once that kind of dissipated a little as the infection rate went down, it turned into anxiety about other stuff and anxiety about looking for work and finding a job and where am I going to live and being with my partner. I was separated from my partner at the very beginning and thankfully we made it back together. I got on a plane. It has been very nice to be together with someone. I will say that, that that
00:22:43
Speaker
you know, even if we fight, you know, we were kind of forced to figure out how to live together all the time, how to give each other space when we need it. And actually, going through that was a really positive thing. And it really forced me and my partner to kind of open up and reflect on ourselves and what we needed and how we could give that to each other.
00:23:07
Speaker
So that was a positive thing coming out of a very intense time. And then my grandfather passed away in May and that was difficult and it was exacerbated by the pandemic because I couldn't be with my family and we didn't have an in-person funeral. We had a Zoom funeral and the lack of normal things happening around that time
00:23:34
Speaker
was difficult in a way that's still almost hard to put my finger on. So that was difficult. And now it's kind of ongoing. And I have good days and bad in terms of anxiety. I think getting into routines has been helpful for me. Trying to exercise every day has been helpful for me.
00:23:55
Speaker
trying to do some work every day, but not too much work has been helpful. I think my anxiety sometimes manifests in like, I always feel like I should be working and I should be productive. And sometimes in the pandemic, I have had to remind myself that it's okay to not be productive every single day, every single hour. It's okay to take a break. It's okay to rest. Yeah. And what I hear a lot and what you're saying is like,
00:24:24
Speaker
The idea of kind of maintaining some semblance of normalcy, right? Because our lives have been so uprooted. Yeah, routines of art have been a huge, I think huge advantage. Yeah, totally. And one other thing, I feel like a lot of bi people I talk to are similar in this way. That's just anecdotal, I don't know. But I've
00:24:46
Speaker
I've always been a people pleaser and I've always been the kind of person who wants to make sure other people are happy and comfortable before I even consider that about myself sometimes. And so that's something I've worked on in therapy and in other groups.
00:25:01
Speaker
But especially during the pandemic, I've had to remind myself, and it's been helpful to do so, that I can't control other people's feelings and emotions and routines, and I don't have to do that. That can't be my responsibility because it's too much responsibility.
00:25:22
Speaker
If people around you need help and need support and ask for it from you, by all means you can be helpful and be supportive, but you cannot control what's going on in other people's heads. If you try to do that, it isn't helpful for them and it isn't helpful for you.
00:25:40
Speaker
And so that's been more of a struggle in the pandemic because everyone is going through stuff and I feel for people and I want to do something and sometimes you just can't and the best thing you can do for other people is to take care of yourself.
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah, which is hard and counterintuitive, but it really is true. Like, you know, sometimes the support I need from the people close to me is for them to just take care of themself also. Yeah. You know, I see that so much working with so many people who are literally mental health professionals, like seeing so much of that as, as just demonstrating
00:26:19
Speaker
how to take care of yourself too like demonstrating that this is what you should like and it helps me to see other people take care of themselves right because it reminds me to take care of myself and vice versa right right yeah and also setting boundaries i mean that's a way to take care of yourself and i was always really bad at setting boundaries and i'm still working on that but
00:26:42
Speaker
But that's a way to take care of yourself and boundaries are especially difficult in the pandemic, but also especially necessary. And I think sometimes boundaries can seem to other people like a bad thing and like you don't love them or you don't want to be with them or you know, you don't want to
00:27:03
Speaker
be supportive, but actually boundaries are very loving. Boundaries are a way to take care of yourself so that you can be there for other people. They're okay. They're necessary. Whatever boundaries you need, you shouldn't feel bad about setting them.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it's hard, especially in this situation where it's easy to just kind of jump in and try to help everyone who reaches out. I actually feel like it's somewhat easier to just not answer and I can sometimes like isolate myself in that way.
00:27:34
Speaker
Yeah, well, go on. What about you? How have you been dealing with this? What's your well-being and mental health been like? Yeah, I think that the only way to talk about it because I haven't talked much about my own well-being and mental health history on the podcast at all.
00:27:52
Speaker
is to go back a little bit and just kind of explain what led me to even work at the Trevor Project and everything else too, is that I went through, and during college I had years of severe depression, I was on medication, I was going to therapy, I had one major suicide attempt at one point, including a suicide note, and ended up hospitalized that time and one other time for my suicidal ideation.
00:28:17
Speaker
severe depression based on my own internalized queerphobia, basically. And, you know, I had all the resources in the world handed to me, and thankfully very much so, you know, a year after that attempt, things had very much so shifted into a new direction. But
00:28:35
Speaker
I also will say that about two or three years after that I also experienced sexual assault for the first time. I experienced it a couple of times after with that in moving to New York and being kind of in this community. Just being able to put myself in situations that were less safe just led to that unfortunately.
00:28:54
Speaker
So that was a slight bump of maybe some mental health difficulties that I didn't even realize were happening as much, but like even just reckless choices and just feeling more anxiety than normal.
00:29:08
Speaker
And nowadays, unfortunately, it's kind of another peak that I'm definitely noticing for myself. I am much more prepared to deal with it than I ever have been before. So by all means, I can also be proud of myself for taking care of myself as well as I am. But I am definitely experiencing more anxiety than I ever have in my life. That is 100% true. I've had small bouts of depression here and there, a complete lack of motivation to do things.
00:29:38
Speaker
And we hinted at it before, but it's partially due to this pandemic that is literally rampaging through this country, and it's terrifying on some days, right? It's also just due to the fact that everything is so much more difficult on the daily, like work being remote and friends being, you know, even further away. Talking to people over texting phone is not the same.
Supporting Mental Health in Others
00:30:03
Speaker
you know, not being able to find the same sense of community with, like, my bi folks in the city, point being that being able to acknowledge those things, being able to, like, talk with people about those things and make sure that I am actually actively seeking out a therapist, that I am actually seeking out ways to make sure that I continue to speak about it and continue to find my own set of support.
00:30:28
Speaker
I think that that's the most important thing right now. And I relate to you in respect to making sure that I'm not working too much, too. Because I think it's especially now that a lot of us are just at home all the time. It's so hard to tell.
00:30:45
Speaker
when your productivity is supposed to stop because you don't have that drink state with somebody later on. You're just at home and your computer is there for you to be working at all day long. You could always be working. You could. There's never the commute time. There's never the drinks, right? Exactly. When you can shut your brain off, it never happens. It's so hard. Yeah. And even just explicitly speaking about work too and working remotely,
00:31:13
Speaker
not being able to have a commute in there and not being able to have that moment where you're just like reading on the train or listening to music on your walk home or something as like a sign that like you are not working anymore. This is like the beginning or the end of work you are now done. Like that doesn't even exist anymore. Unless you make it happen though. Like unless you create that, right?
00:31:36
Speaker
like getting outside and like just going on a walk before and after work or something like that. That's definitely one of the key ways I'm managing since so much of my anxiety does come from the sheer amount of work that is put on my plate. Right, you need those demarcated times and spaces, otherwise your whole lives just blend together and it's all always work time. Exactly.
00:32:06
Speaker
So, Alex, I'm curious, like, when you had the suicide attempt after that, what was helpful for you personally? And also say you know somebody dealing with that, or even you just know somebody dealing with anxiety or depression. What's a good way to be supportive and to help deal with that?
00:32:25
Speaker
Yeah, I guess we didn't really like explicitly talk about that. The important part. Yeah, you know, the way to work through so many of these things is so similar. Like, you know, I refer to a suicide attempt that was very scary. It was a clear crisis, but also crises are sometimes smaller and just like being able to support folks.
00:32:46
Speaker
when they tell you that they're feeling depressed, when they tell you they're feeling anxious or something like that. Sometimes it's hard to realize kind of how deep those thoughts might go and what that could lead to. My big points to anybody who asks this, talk to them, right? Talk to them, listen to them.
00:33:04
Speaker
And with that, make sure that you are leaving more space for them than for yourself, right? Because in those situations, something that can be really hard but really important is making sure that you are collaborating with them rather than giving them advice. I think that it's really important to make sure that they realize that you're
00:33:29
Speaker
with them and that you're just looking to hear more about their experience, right? You know, comparing struggles, giving pointers, that doesn't really work as much as just asking them what you can do for them, right? And be reasonable with yourself.
Connecting and Engaging: Personal and Civic Actions
00:33:41
Speaker
Don't take everything on, obviously. Like, don't take this person's life on to yourself, you know, set those boundaries like we were talking about. But even just asking somebody like, do you want to talk? What do you want to talk about? How are you feeling right now? How does it feel when fill in the blank?
00:33:57
Speaker
That all makes so much sense to me and it actually makes sense because of the experience I had with my bisexuality because
00:34:06
Speaker
one of the things that was just so hard about it before I came out was not talking about it and not being able to talk to people who understood and who wouldn't judge and who would just listen. Like the act of actually talking about it was so helpful for me to process it. And so it makes sense that just giving people space to talk and not necessarily telling them what to do or giving them advice could be really helpful.
00:34:35
Speaker
And another, just it makes me think of another thing with my bisexual experience that I've dealt with during the pandemic, it's that Walt Whitman quote, do I contradict myself very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. And I have that quote up in my kitchen and
00:34:53
Speaker
When I put it up, it was all about my sexuality and about holding these two ideas that seem to be contradictory, but are both existing inside of you. And at one point that was the idea that I could be like men and like women.
00:35:09
Speaker
And that seemed contradictory for most of my life. And I went through this process dealing with my sexuality and realized that those are not contradictory. Both things can be true. And that idea has come up for me so much during the pandemic that like, I want to go outside, but I also don't. I'm scared of going outside or like, you know, I feel
00:35:34
Speaker
hopeful about something and I'm also terrified about these other things and these things seem contradictory but they're all true. Just noticing those things and being able to name those things and talk to someone, it doesn't have to be a therapist, it could just be a friend, like being able to say those things out loud and talk about them and hold all those things together
00:35:58
Speaker
at once it's all happening inside of you and it's all valid and it's all okay whatever it is you're feeling yeah whatever you may be feeling right now whatever somebody you know may be feeling right now somebody else has felt the same way right so if you're feeling like there's something wrong with the way you're feeling in that moment
00:36:17
Speaker
Like, would you say the same thing to somebody else who at the same time somewhere else in the world is literally thinking the same thing to themself? You know, our feelings are what they are and feelings exist for a reason.
00:36:30
Speaker
Right, and that's so similar to my bi journey too, which is like I was going through this stuff I thought alone and I thought I was the only one who thought this way for so many years and then I finally connected and it was so helpful to realize that other people were going through the same thing. And the pandemic is the same, like we're literally isolated from other people
00:36:52
Speaker
And it's so much harder to connect and to realize that like, whatever you're going through, so many other people are dealing with that too. And if you can find those people or just find people who you can talk to about that, it's very validating and helpful. Yeah. Just to kind of wrap us up, something I think that's really important is making sure that you fill out the census soon. Because the census, while this may feel like a non sequitur,
00:37:18
Speaker
That is how resources get supplied to your communities, by making sure that the government, that everybody out there knows that your community exists and that you are a part of it.
00:37:28
Speaker
And register to vote. Check now to make sure you're registered to vote. And if you are registered to vote, apply for an absentee or mail-in ballot now. Just do it if you don't live in a state that's going to send it directly. Everyone needs to vote in this election. Yeah. It's never been more important. And thanks for listening. We will be back soon with some more interviews. So stay tuned and take care of yourself.
00:37:58
Speaker
Two Bye Guys is created and hosted by Alex Boyan and me, Rob Cohen. Our logo art was designed by Caitlin Weinman, and our music was composed and created by Ross Mincer. Season 2 is executive produced and edited by me, Rob Cohen, and produced by Alex Boyan and Moxie Pung, with support from IFP. Thanks for listening to Two Bye Guys.