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Dr. Julia Britz on Psych Med Tapering, Withdrawal, Side Effects of Meds, and More!
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This week we are joined by Dr. Julia Britz. We began by hearing a little about Dr. Britz's journey, as she has a direct connection to her field. We then discussed the transparency in the psychiatric field. Next, we began our discussion on drug tapering and drug withdrawal, specifically regarding psychiatric drugs.
We covered the underlying premises, as well as some specific examples, including SSRIs. We also discussed various concepts surrounding withdrawal, such as long-term withdrawal effects. We discussed the roles of exercise, hormetic stress, herbology, and supplements in relation to tapers.
We also discussed a few issues pertaining to the diagnosticians, as well as the pharmaceutical companies. We also covered the importance of having the right match with a practitioner, as well as the person-centered approach.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:01
beyondterrain
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Beyond Training podcast. I'm your host, Liam Dalton. Today we're going to continue our discussion on, you know, psychology, sort of, we're going to touch on, uh, interesting little niche of it. Uh, we're going to talk a little bit about psychiatric drugs today. Uh, really looking forward to this discussion. We haven't, we've delved into the philosophy a little bit with Dr. Kaufman and, uh, Mr. Whitaker there, but, uh, today I think we're going to get a little more, um, into what it actually looks like like, more boots on the ground stuff. So I'm really looking forward to this.
Meet Dr. Julia Britz
00:00:33
beyondterrain
We have Dr. Julia Britz on today. I stumbled upon her on Instagram and um she had an amazing page. She shares some amazing information and I'm really looking forward to having a conversation with her today. So Dr. Britz, thank you so much for coming on today.
00:00:48
Julia
Thank you. It was going to be fun.
What is Health?
00:00:51
beyondterrain
Great. So I'm starting all my podcast episodes off with a sort of more general question and it is general and it is broad. I asked all my guests, what is health? So it's almost like a definition of health or how that manifests, what it means to you. And so you can kind of take it wherever you want to go. So what, what is health?
00:01:09
Julia
Well, to me, health is sort of the barometer of how we're doing on a spiritual, physical and emotional level. And that makes it sound like it's a place or a state of being, but I think that's actually, oh, terrible way to think about it. Because if we start thinking of health as a goal, and then we kind of see it as like, oh, I got to get to the finish line of health. It puts us in a state of health-ism. And healthism is like, oh, I don't know if I'm healthy enough. And i I don't know if I'm perfect enough at being healthy. And it becomes kind of dogmatic. And that can be really disheartening to the state of health. So um for me, I think of it more as an adjective. Like, I am doing things that help me feel healthy, or I'm doing things that do not help me feel healthy. So it's more like an active state of being versus a goal we're trying to reach.
00:02:03
Julia
I
00:02:05
beyondterrain
Amazing. Yeah. I really appreciate that. And you bring up healthism. That's interesting. We haven't talked about that ever on the podcast, but you know, I feel like we all sort of go through a period, you know, maybe not, but I know I've been through a period where I've been like, you know, kind of avoid all the toxins. And I'm still, you know, I mean, my fiance would certainly say I'm still there, but i like to the general population, they'd be like, you're a nut, but
00:02:29
Julia
did.
00:02:32
beyondterrain
Um, you know, I've been worse in my head and you know, the stress associated with trying to be healthy, like, like you're mentioned in there, like trying to achieve the state of health.
00:02:39
Julia
Right.
00:02:42
beyondterrain
It's impossible. It's like chasing. It's like trying to be rich. When do you, when do you achieve being rich? You know, it's like, if you're going to chase money, you're never going to get, it's just going to be disappointing forever.
00:02:50
Julia
Right.
00:02:55
beyondterrain
So it's kind of along the same lines. Like if you're trying to chase health as the state, you know, and that's. It's sort of interesting, right? Because you want to feel healthy, but it's not necessarily this sort of state of being in a way. I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but maybe you want to chime in on
Niche Wellness Community Issues
00:03:13
beyondterrain
that.
00:03:13
Julia
and No, it does because health, and the wellness community became very niche, you know, it became like, and we created terms for things that don't need them, you know, like, Oh, you're putting your feet in the ground, you're grounding, like, that's ridiculous. Like, you're just walking outside. That's so stupid. But, you know, we do that because we have to encourage this behavior because it become alternative. You know, it didn't used to be used to be normal. But now that it's become alternative, it's become niche, it's become unique, it's become in some aspects, you know, more, like I said, dogmatic, even cult-like at times. I mean, I think we've all heard people describe that about different dietary choice groups, like, oh, that that's too hardcore to be a carnivore. It's too hardcore to be a vegan. You know, so it gets really sected. And I think if if it weren't that way, if it became more, again, our normal way of being on a consistent daily basis,
00:04:08
Julia
we wouldn't ever really even think about it that much. Just be like breathing, just something you do, just part of your life. It wouldn't be weird. And you wouldn't be thought of as weird or extreme for caring about the toxic burden in your life. You know, people would just be like, Oh, good, you know, it just wouldn't even be a thought. But it is a thought. Which leads to us putting it ah like us in our own positions of obsession. You know, we have to like, okay, well, that's a rabbit hole. Like you just do, you get into these rabbit holes about every other health thing you can think of because you're just trying to get on top of this garbage area of, you know, toxic burden that we live in now. So.
00:04:45
beyondterrain
Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. No, I, I agree. And like, you know, it's also like, it's just, it's interested interesting in the way that it's viewed now too, because, you know, I'm i'm at a point where I'm not, but you know, I would never consider myself to be on some sort of diet or any sort of restrictive diet of that matter. You know, my diet and quotations is to try and eat whole foods only. You know what I mean? Like, and I mean, minimally process as well.
00:05:08
Julia
All
00:05:10
beyondterrain
Like you process stuff in your home, you know, we can get into the definitions of what is processing, but you know, you know, processed at home, whole foods. And then that's considered a diet. It's like, you're not even a vegan or carnivore or whatever. You're just, you eat real foods and people are like, oh, you're not eating Oreo cookies.
00:05:26
Julia
right.
00:05:27
beyondterrain
You're on a diet. she' teaching You know what I mean? It's kind of funny, eh? But anyways, it's, it's a different world now. You know, I, i for personally, you know, my philosophy sort of align, align myself as much to nature as I can. And that's just kind of how I view it. Like you said, like we have to make up these terms for grounding and then there needs to be scientific evidence for why grounding is beneficial. But I'm at the point where it's just, you know if you align yourself with nature, that tends to be the answer.
00:05:58
Julia
Right.
00:05:58
beyondterrain
At least it's always proven itself to to me for sure.
00:06:03
Julia
Yeah, it does. I mean, on the one hand, it's very reassuring to read an article that says, hey, it's actually really healthy to incorporate eggs in your diet. Like that feels good. At the same time, you know, you could find another article that says, don't ever eat eggs, these are really bad for you. And so it's it's a tough position because we all are confused. And I think we have every right to feel confused because There's things in our world that didn't used to be here. So you know if if we went back to how we used to live, you know more community, more nature, you know we wouldn't have the choice. or like For me, I have to go very far away to find a park. So that study I read on, you know oh, you need 15 minutes a day walking around greenery.
00:06:49
Julia
that will help reduce you know inattentiveness. Like, okay, well, yeah I need that kind of information to tell people otherwise it's hard to justify like driving out of your house trying to find a park. It's not easy anymore. So I have a lot of empathy because I experienced it too. Like we all are trying to find the balance of living in a capitalistic world, which doesn't really, I think cater too much to a naturalistic spiritual world. I don't know how they go hand in hand. I think we're all struggling to of trying to find that balance.
00:07:20
beyondterrain
Well put very well put I agree Yeah, and it doesn't help when you're told, you know and the thing about social media to find any anything on social media and it is the same delivers like you pointed out like you could really argue any side and have The literature to back it up, you know and obviously there's a lot of fraud in the literature too which doesn't help and there's a lot of vested interests and um a lot of the authority figures tend to
00:07:41
Julia
Yeah.
00:07:46
beyondterrain
push this sort of materialistic, modern approach, especially to health, whatever that is. Right. think Um, but yeah, no, that's, that's really well put.
Dr. Britz's Personal Journey
00:07:57
beyondterrain
Um, so today I do want to talk about like, you know, more psychiatric area of things. Um, maybe I could just hear a little bit about, you know, how you got to this point and you're thinking, um, you know, what, maybe a little bit of your journey, how you got to this point. And I'll just give you the floor and we can take it from there.
00:08:18
Julia
Yeah, I think as a little kid, you know, I struggled with, like a lot of kids do, anxiety, emptiness, worthiness, depression. And my very, I think, well-meaning mother would always threaten me with, if you don't feel better, I'm going to take you to the doctor and put you on psych meds. So I learned very early on that psych meds were punishment. And so I um i never really like trusted medications. you know Even when I got my first, I had a a yeast infection when I was a teenager and they're like, let's try a medication. I was so scared of that.
00:08:51
Julia
and so i had a um probably an irrational fear on medications for a long time. And it eventually got to a point where it was a very real discussion about like, Hey, your OCD Julia is way too severe. Like we really should talk about Zoloft, but I was so afraid of the waking. I knew that was a possibility. Any sexual dysfunction was a possibility. um And even even JAMA says that over 50% of people on SSRIs will experience waking. So it's, ah and sexual dysfunction. So it's not,
00:09:24
Julia
Um, that unlikely. I felt more comfortable though, getting medications across the border. I go to Mexico and get out of it on and take it just as needed. I liked that it was fast acting. So. There's the irrationality, for sure. But and I knew there were things I was giving up, though. like I was feeling better OCD-wise, but also I was getting blackouts during the day. I couldn't remember a lot of things. um And then I also had some interesting types of sexual dysfunction. So like I couldn't experience an orgasm at all, even though like I was still experiencing libido.
00:09:59
Julia
um i My facial awareness was pretty poor, so I was constantly bumping into things. um I was hallucinating, but it didn't scare me because I knew it was an hallucination, so i was seeing I was always seeing rats everywhere. um but So it got to the point where I was like, you know what, I don't know if what I'm paying for the relief of OCD, I'm not sure, because it seems like I have to constantly pay more and more to do this, to kind of be you know not even symptom to- free, just have like the edge taken off during a panic attack. um And it wasn't until I forgot to take my medication that I went into withdrawal and I woke up one morning and I could barely see sweating. I had this vibration stuff going down my spine and I was hysterically crying and I didn't know what was wrong with me, but I knew something very erratic was going on. And then it took hours. We finally realized that I didn't take my medication.
00:10:50
Julia
so And that's what I hear a lot. it's like It's not that people are like, I'm addicted per se, it's just my body's dependent on this stuff. And that's when I was like, I gotta to get off this stuff because this pill is is way too strong. you know It's actually everything to me. And I thought that maybe one day I won't be able to get it if I need it. It really scared me. Because the laws were changing in Mexico all the time. So um long from there, um let's go to med school. I didn't want to go to med school. I wanted to actually originally be a psychiatric nurse practitioner. And I was like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to deal with that system. I didn't want to be in the system. I didn't like the system. I didn't want to work in insurance.
00:11:29
Julia
So then I was like, I had so much i got so much better with naturopathic medicine. I loved it. i so I just loved it. So I was like, I'll just do that and help people that are struggling either with I'm on a psych med, I want off, or I don't want to have to go on this
Beyond Pharmaceuticals in Mental Health
00:11:43
Julia
medication. How do I deal with my anxiety? Like that's what I wanted to help people see was that there was a third option. You know, it didn't have to be just pharmaceuticals or therapy. You know, and I love therapy. I love therapy, but it's not always successful. And sometimes it's too expensive. And sometimes people are just not emotionally ready to talk about what they're thinking with somebody else.
00:12:04
Julia
So I wanted people to see, I still do, like there's got to be a third option than just what we're given. So that's how I got to where I am now. And I am, I actually feel really honored to be able to do what I do, because it's, it's such a difficult road to come off of medication. um But it's so rewarding when people do it. And people actually feel like they're who they're really supposed to be, you know,
00:12:33
beyondterrain
Amazing. Yeah.
00:12:36
beyondterrain
Yeah. That's a, that's an amazing, amazing story and journey, um, to where you are now. That's, that's big, you know, and they often talk about, you know, when I, when I listened to the sort of more modern side of things, um, they always talk about this, they're not addictive, you know, so they must be okay or whatever.
00:12:56
Julia
Yes.
00:12:58
beyondterrain
Uh, and there was a cool analogy that I heard. It was like, You know, people will say like, you know, with coffee, I'm not addicted to coffee. Like if I stop coffee, I'm not going to buy. I mean, some people I think are addicted to coffee, but, but, you know, you still have some sort of reaction, some sort of bodily reaction when you do come off of drink coffee. If you're drinking coffee all the time, um you know, you're it is altering this sort of baseline homeostasis balance of the body if you want to think about it that way.
00:13:27
Julia
That's
00:13:33
beyondterrain
So it's, it's sort of making like a new normal in your body, right? So there's this new normal. And then once you stop having that input, things are bound, they're they're they're bound to be different, you know, so I think that's a really important thing to highlight that even though like they'll say like, oh, SSRIs aren't drugs of abuse. Like people aren't going to go out on the street and buy them and sell their fridge for SSRIs.
00:13:54
Julia
great.
00:13:56
Julia
Thanks.
00:13:59
beyondterrain
It doesn't mean that they can't be any sort of withdrawal. It can't be anything like that. So I think that's really important point. Um, meaningful work. This certainly sounds like a meaningful area for you. You can hear the passion in your voice too. Um, I'd love to hear, maybe we could start with, maybe discussing side effects. you know um And we could start less so maybe with the specific side effects, but we could maybe discuss what's your perception on the transparency of side effects being conveyed to patients like in the doctor's office or through the literature, education, stuff like that. I'd love to hear your perspective on that.
00:14:42
Julia
Yeah, I mean, they're just not conveyed at all. you know and And I have a little sympathy, a teeny, teeny bit for for the docs. I do, but most of it I do find to be pretty irresponsible. You know, we are not given informed consent. Like, hey, if you take this, this is what could happen. These are the red flags you need to watch for. um These are your alternatives. What would you like to do? That is doesn't happen, you know. um And i I understand what it's like, you know, for a doctor, or you have someone in your office who's suffering.
00:15:08
beyondterrain
You
00:15:14
Julia
they're begging for help and you can see it and they're wanting reassurance.
00:15:16
beyondterrain
good?
00:15:18
Julia
So you're trying not to scare them more. Like I understand. So how do you do that?
00:15:21
beyondterrain
Well, sure.
00:15:22
Julia
How do you give someone true and fore consent while trying to manage emotions that that patient can't manage themselves, you know, when they're truly needing help. So it's a delicate conversation to have. And I wish more people would get that conversation. um Because the side effects, which I think are kind of hilarious in a very dark way, um most of the time with SSRIs and benzos, it's going to be sexual dysfunction, meaning inability to have an orgasm, low libido. Um, or some sort of change in ejaculation, um, there, and this can actually go on even after the discontinuation of the medication. So it's, and that's a really big deal because I see this a lot in women, especially because women, um, over age 60, um, they're prescribed more SSRIs and benzos than in any other age group. So.
00:16:14
Julia
Um, I think the issue here is that I do see a lot of women that will be like, look, I don't, I don't know. I've gone through menopause. I don't care about sex anymore. You know, so they don't quote unquote mind. And I get it. When you're suffering, it's the last thing on your mind, sexual health. But I always tell people sexual health comes from the sacral chakra. This is the same era where we have our creativity source. This is where we can self express. And that's why most people tell me like when the dope means though, they're like, Oh, like I don't have libido. I don't want to do anything. I used to have all these great ideas. I don't have them anymore. I used to be like ADD and I have these amazing thoughts. Now I just have ADD but out the amazing thoughts. I'm just anxious.
00:16:55
Julia
That's what happens when sexual energy and creativity are gone. So that gets robbed of people when they go on a psychiatric medication. So even though it's a pill and it's like, oh, sweet, I have this medication and I get to take a pill and hopefully we'll turn this down. You are going to pay for it. You're going to pay for it with um not being able to control your metabolism, your weight gain. There's going to be issues with. ah More urinary tract infections are pretty common, headache, um gut dysbiosis is a super common, insomnia or hypersomnia, fatigue, low energy, um changes in the skin, acne sometimes, especially with stimulants that cause more dry skin acne.
00:17:35
Julia
Um, there's going to be, and of course a risk of dependency with every psychiatric medication. And I mean, I'll get argued about that one, but it's true because, you know, it's funny, like Benzos, they work on the GABA-nergic system.
Dependency and Withdrawal of Medications
00:17:51
Julia
So the argument is for a long time was, well, they can't be addictive because they don't work on the dopamine system. Well, I would also say neither does alcohol and look where we are. So the thing about benzos and alcohol is that when you hyperstimulate the galvanergic system, the body has to counterbalance by releasing dopamine. Otherwise you will stop breathing. So if you don't have enough dopamine to come in, then we can't actually just function. We'll just start to...
00:18:18
Julia
Real quick. So um when we get that secondary influx of dopamine, that's addictive. That feels good. So you're actually able to feel a sense of calm and alertness without that hyper anxiety piece that comes from just a dopamine hit without the gap of balance there. That part is what keeps that brain going. I need more of that. I need more of that. Even if, like, psychologically you don't feel that way. Like, I didn't. You know, I woke up and I was like, I have no idea why I'm in withdrawal. I didn't know I was. Because I didn't crave my med. Most people don't crave it. Some people do. um But I think there's ah there's no such thing as an easy fix or a magic pill. It just doesn't exist.
00:19:00
beyondterrain
especially with something so complex as a psyche, you know, it's sort of interesting as well. You know, if it's, if we could talk about the causes of, um, mental health conditions as well. Um, but you know, if there's a psychological cause to it, you know, is it possible to correct that through some sort of neurochemical pathway? Like, can you address that? but through the material, through the chemicals, you know, if it's caused by something in your environment that's on the psychological realm, that's not, that is a material, you know, how are we how are we supposed to approach that then?
00:19:44
Julia
Right, and and to me, that was the worst thing that ever happened to the practice of psychiatry and psychology was when they, 1952, I think, they were like, let's just split it up. The psychotherapist, you guys can have the mind, a bunch of hippies. And then the psychiatrist was like, okay, you real scientists, you can play with the bag of chemicals that are the people. And that severed the mind-body connection. killed it. you know And so that's a problem because even now, there is some really cool research showing that if somebody has physical stress and experiences exactly like um oxidative stress in the body, free radicals, that same thing can happen for emotional stress.
00:20:26
Julia
So the body doesn't know the difference. The only stress it doesn't see the same is um excitement stress. So if somebody's like, I can't wait on jumping out of a plane, that won't cause oxidative stress. But if someone is stressed over divorce, that will. That also will if that person overtrained at the gym and didn't drink any water and, you know, they had a cold at the same time, like all that stuff. So that's all going to lead up to the body getting more oxidative stress, which translates to more systemic inflammation. So with that being said, since we have multiple ways to alter the chemicals in the body, physical and mental, um we can sort of jump in at multiple areas. And that's why I encourage people like, hey, we're going to work on the physical stuff. We'll work on the nutrient deficiencies, and the nutrition and all that. The therapy also is going to be crucial because if we don't change the thoughts that have stemmed from this, then we're not going to be able to self-soothe, emotionally regulate and keep those stress chemicals from popping back up all the time.
00:21:25
Julia
If that makes sense.
00:21:27
beyondterrain
Yeah, definitely. No, absolutely. That's a, that's an interesting point you make about in the fifties there, the separation of the mind and the body through, through the splitting of psychiatry and psychotherapy. You know, that's, that's something I haven't really thought about, but, um, It seems obvious now that you pointed out because, you know, that's when, you know, half of them put the coats on the white coats. And then the other half were there.
00:21:49
Julia
and me
00:21:50
beyondterrain
They were the Freudians. They were the, you know, the youngians there sitting in the couches laid back.
00:21:53
Julia
yeah
00:21:56
beyondterrain
And, um, yeah, that makes a lot of sense because, um, that did really split the fields off. And, you know, it's interesting too, you know, that psychiatrists are like, you know, they, they certainly believe that they're, they're still primarily concerned with the mind. from a chemical perspective, which I think is sort of an interesting take. Um, you know, and, and, you know, we could, I don't know enough about the brain to comment, but the only thing I know about the brain is that we don't know anything about the brain really.
00:22:18
Julia
Yeah.
00:22:28
Julia
Right.
00:22:30
beyondterrain
That's really my perspective on it. Um, if I could make such a comment, but yeah, that's, uh, that's really interesting.
00:22:32
Julia
Absolutely. like
00:22:37
beyondterrain
You know, I'm curious. Um, you mentioned earlier about sort of withdrawal. Um,
00:22:43
Julia
Yeah.
00:22:43
beyondterrain
Maybe we could talk about that generally and then I might have a few more specific questions about it. Yeah.
00:22:49
Julia
Yeah. So, you know, the standard would be that no matter what psychiatric medication you're on, and I include psychomeds as the following. That's going to be your stimulants, your SSRIs and your atypicals, your benzos, SNRIs, and the mood stabilizers and the anti-epileptics.
00:22:56
beyondterrain
Yeah.
00:23:05
Julia
Depicote, Lamotrigine, those guys. So any of those medications do carry a risk of dependency. So what that means is that if you come off the medication, whether extremely quickly or extremely slow, there is a risk of experiencing withdrawal symptoms. And that's because when you don't have that steady state of the medication in your blood anymore, the body is going to react and try to compensate. um That compensation doesn't always feel really good. So, um, and it's, it's not that the bodies doesn't understand, but in a way, I guess it doesn't understand. So it's like, if you're taking medication to sleep and then the medication goes away, your body's like, Oh, I'm not getting the stimulus. I guess they don't want to, okay. Don't want to sleep. They want to be awake. Give them insomnia. You know, the body's trying. It's just listening. You know, the body listens.
00:23:53
Julia
So when we go through withdrawal, some people are very lucky genetically and they will not experience a hard time at all. And they'll just come off it. No problem. Other people, it's going to be a more challenging process um because the body can be very sensitive and doesn't like a lot of change. You know, we do start anyway with people that have a lot of anxiety. A lot of them tend to be very highly sensitive people, you know, sounds, smells, emotion, everything sensitive, sensitive, sensitive. So changes in medications, sensitive. So um withdrawals are going to be different for every medication class. um And I think the most important thing to know is that usually the withdrawal, um people will be told at some point, like, okay, be really careful. You know, this is maybe your underlying condition coming back, which is not true. And science does not show that's true in the research.
00:24:43
Julia
So it's, for example, someone might be on lithium, lithium carbonate, and then they'll come off it and they might go a little manic. And then they're told, see, it's that underlying bipolar we were worried about. But in reality, you rip anyone off lithium and there's a risk of mania, even if they never had it before. And I always tell people that logic to me drives me crazy because it's like if somebody went into some withdrawal from, they'd stop drinking and they're really tired and they're grumpy and they go, see, Question, start drinking again. This would actually help. Like how insane would that be, right? So I think you cannot use withdrawal as a criteria for mental health diagnosis. And any doctor that does that is just not using the research to help the patient, trying to prove a point to serve their ego. And that's not, and me in my perspective, that's not really always helpful.
00:25:39
beyondterrain
it's Well, it's terrible for the for the patient. What a terrible thing. you know But the alcohol one, you know it's completely applicable. That example is completely applicable because you know say you have severe social anxiety and then you start drinking and that social anxiety goes away and you're the most social person at the fair. You wake up with social anxiety again. Like you said, keep drinking keep drinking. Just never stop drinking. You know what I mean? And you'll never have social anxiety.
00:26:05
Julia
Like I do. Problem solved.
00:26:08
beyondterrain
Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. No, I think that's, that's important to highlight there. Um, can we talk the big ones, the big ones are okay. No, one example I want to bring up, um, was there used to be this anti-psychotic medication that was used for a stomach ailment. And once the people got off of it, even though they had no previous psychosis, they would
00:26:39
beyondterrain
have psychotic symptoms, you know, they would see, they would, they would undergo a psychosis in many of the cases, you know, so, um, I forget the exact details. I'd love to bring those up, but, um, I think that we talked about that with Mr. Whitaker there, um, for the listeners, but you know, it's stuff like that, like that, that
Withdrawal Symptoms and Misdiagnosis
00:27:02
beyondterrain
should be studied. You know, when, when we're talking about making scientific claims, you know, to differentiate between the withdrawal symptoms and the symptoms of a so-called mental illness, you know, to make a scientific claim about that, there should be a control, right?
00:27:20
beyondterrain
So if we're taking larger sample sizes, we should have a control where we look where we assess individuals who do not have any sort of, say we say, there are no depressive symptoms.
00:27:21
Julia
Okay.
00:27:29
beyondterrain
And we put them on an SSRI for the same period of time as the experimental group. And we assess both groups and see after we take them off SSRIs, which groups have, you know and you can control this in many different manners. Now the problem is now is will that pass an ethical board? I highly doubt putting people who don't have mental illness on SSRIs will pass, but you know that's the sort of that's the sort of way that the empirical method and scientific method should validate these claims.
00:27:52
Julia
No?
00:28:00
beyondterrain
But unfortunately, you know unless you've come across some research like that, which I don't think you have, um you know, these are unscientific claims. So that's that's really important to note. It's not, you know, you get off depression or your depression's back, go back on the SSRIs. That's very, very important. If there's one thing that anyone can take away from this episode, I want it to be that. That's that's my thing. So I'd love to talk maybe more specifically about SSRIs, withdrawal, because that's kind of the big ones, right?
00:28:31
beyondterrain
Like that's the big one. You know, you see the benzos and SSRIs,
00:28:33
Julia
Yeah.
00:28:35
beyondterrain
Now, you know, there it seems at least that you may just agree with this, but it seems like people are starting to realize that benzos are, have a significant withdrawal period, you know? And like, it's kind of admitted at this point. I don't see the same thing with SSRIs. I don't really see that even like from the psychiatrist's point of view. So um maybe we can start with SSRIs and then maybe we can talk about the benzos.
00:29:01
Julia
Yeah, so are you referring to like the this the withdrawal that comes with that story? I'm sorry, it was a question, okay.
00:29:06
beyondterrain
Withdrawal story, yeah, withdrawals with us as our lives.
00:29:09
Julia
Got it, okay, so most of them are gonna do a lot in the GI. So they can cause dysbiosis, they can cause a lot of irritability, so we might see what looks like IBS. So chronic constipation and diarrhea are alternating, um gas and bloating. um Sometimes we'll see, um because of the change in blood sugar that it causes, it's not as bad as the benzos with that, but you still kinda see it. You might see more candida overgrowth that can happen. Um, some people will get colds, like their immune system can shift and when they're coming off of it. If they do, if they're staying on it, it's probably okay, but it can actually modify your cortisol levels. Because when you first take an SSRI, you get a hyperstimulation of ACTH, which overdrafts the adrenal system. And then you get really anxious. And then your doctor says, just get through it.
Holistic Approaches to Tapering Off
00:29:57
Julia
Like, just give yourself four weeks, you'll feel great. Some people do, some people don't.
00:30:02
Julia
You can get through that part and you do feel great. like you will It's because you're sort of getting used to your own steroids. um So then once you do that, like your immune system will be slightly different in what you can react and what you don't react to. So also pretty common to get um headaches. um Sometimes people get like mysterious sort of sore throats, that kind of thing. When you come off it, then we see more of like the flu-like symptoms, that kind of stuff. um I would say, Some people get worse in anxiety, some get worse in depression. Suicidal thinking is pretty common. Ironic. Those are the main ones.
00:30:40
beyondterrain
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And so managing these withdrawal symptoms, you know, what, what sort of approach do you take? What's your philosophy behind that? Like, you know, um, maybe you talk a little bit of drug paper into, if that's applicable to SSRIs. Um, but is there like any sort of sort of, it's hard to be general, it's hard to be general with interventions. but any sort of like underlying philosophy to your approach, I'd love to know about.
00:31:11
Julia
Yeah, I mean, for me, a successful taper is not just coming off the medication. It's kind of a medication and feeling like you don't need it or need to go back on it. So we don't want to just take it away and say, hope you're OK with managing the underneath stuff on your own. That's not really going to work. So I do recommend that people, you know, if you are on it and there's no shame in wanting out of suffering, I tell people that. So if you're on a medication, like take the time to do the work, you know because this is just putting a pause on things. It's not hearing anything. So if you're getting the luxury of time,
00:31:47
Julia
use it, like go to therapy or do some inner work, inner child work, whatever you got to do, like, and figure out what it is that got you on the medication, learn some behavioral tools to manage that. So then when you decide, okay, I don't want to be on this anymore, you have some strategies and some foundation foundation foundational things to help manage your emotions. That's what pills do. ah SSRIs, they sort of help you manage the compulsivity, the obsessive nature, you know, the phobic stuff, depression. They don't
00:32:24
Julia
It's kind of like they sort of give you a pass to not work out your brain. you know so like And that's okay sometimes. We need that sometimes. um I definitely did when I was on benzos. The OCD was way too much. like i Even if you put me in therapy, it would have gone along. There's no way I could have sat through that. So, but what I, I guess what I mean is that when I was taking Ativan, um, I didn't have to work so hard to regulate my own anxiety. So that's why when people come off these meds, they're like, Oh my gosh, I'm feeling everything. It's so raw. It's because you have been practicing emotional regulation the entire time you've been on this drug. Wait, what most people do is they go, I'm anxious. And then they take the drug right away.
00:33:06
Julia
Or they're like, oh, this SRI isn't working somewhere so much anymore. Let's maybe alter the dose or whatever we got to do. um Or let's add on ability. Whatever else. So we do these management techniques, which alters our baseline of stress tolerance. So then that's difficult because if we have low psychological flexibility, low stress tolerance, then coming off medications can be really scary because it goes, wow, I don't i don't know how we're going to do that. I don't know what's going to happen. So the more tools and some people I work with don't ever want to come off their meds and that's fine you know so if that's the case then we're still going to work on what physiologically is causing some of these psychiatric symptoms and then also let's do some therapy get a therapist on board and let's work on all different aspects of your health so that we can get as in balance as possible.
00:34:00
Julia
That to me makes the most sense for people because then if people have autonomy of choice, they go, all right, I feel a little better. I don't know if I want to be on them anymore. You know, I feel great. This is perfect. Keeping the med word set, you know, like that kind of thing. People deserve that. If people feel that they are. slave to their medication that they're like, I don't know if I can handle my feelings without like, those are not good messages for the psyche to feel like you cannot handle your life, that you are incapable that that challenges your sense of worthiness, your sense of self love. It's impossible to have good self esteem with that. Like that's why most people coming off meds are going to be wrestling some self esteem issues, not everybody, but a lot of people do because
00:34:42
Julia
You may not think about it every day, but when you swallow a pill subconsciously, there's something going on with that. you know And it may be a positive message, it might be a negative one, but it's saying something. So um that's my approach is more, I guess I would say holistic in trying to work on all these pieces um to get them as imbalanced as possible so that people can choose for themselves if they wanna do.
Nutritional Strategies During Tapering
00:35:05
beyondterrain
Very cool. And so do you help support them?
00:35:07
Julia
Awesome.
00:35:08
beyondterrain
So of course, of course, I think I know the answer to this. Do you help support like, like through any sort of herbology or any sort of more materialistic approach?
00:35:16
Julia
Bye
00:35:18
beyondterrain
Do you incorporate that into your practice as well? Like you mentioned addressing deficiencies earlier. So like probably things like a proper diet, right? You know, eating real whole foods and stuff like that. Um, anyways, I'd love to hear that about that too.
00:35:33
Julia
Yeah, I use a lot of um nutritional strategies. It might be different per person. Like the the nutritional plan, I would suggest for somebody tapering is not going to be the one I would tell somebody who just gave birth or somebody who's suffering severe burns. You know, diets should be temporary. They should be just specific for what's going on. And based on the underlying stuff, so somebody tapering an antiepileptic but has epilepsy would not be on the same diet as somebody who's tapering an antiepileptic that was taken from bipolar. um So I do a lot of that, lots of supplements, so i you know vitamins, minerals, um nutrients, I do a lot of botanicals as well, um peptides sometimes, NAD sometimes, things like that. um I don't do any IVs myself, I don't see people in person anymore, I do everything telemet telehealth now.
00:36:19
Julia
um But I do find that holistic care like this for most people is gentler and some people are very supplement sensitive and in which case you know there's a lot of other strategies so there's never only one road to healing you know there's a lot of providers out there that are really not into supplements and they they do more like breathwork and that kind of thing, and more
Finding the Right Practitioner
00:36:42
Julia
energy medicine. And that's going to be a better fit for somebody else that you know is a little more sensitive. So there's a lot of different paths to get to where you want to go. um so that's just so So people do what works best for them.
00:36:55
Julia
you know And I always relate it to musical instruments. So like, for example, I like supplements. That's my violin. I can play it real well. Somebody else might be like, I hate this instrument. It doesn't work for me. I can never make it sound good. And they're going to go, but piano is my thing. And I'm going to be like, I hate piano stuff. you know so You just do what your voice says to do, and then that's going to be the best strategy to help connect with people. And that's really what healing is, is just the provider and the client connecting so that growth can happen. And that happens not just for the client, but for the provider as well, if it's done, you know, in my opinion, well.
00:37:31
beyondterrain
I think thanks so much for sharing that. That's really an important message. You know, we're, and we, you know, we all get a little dogmatic in our ways too. Sometimes they like, you know, I'm for this or I'm against that.
00:37:41
Julia
Yeah.
00:37:44
beyondterrain
And then it's, if you're not doing that, well then you're stupid or something, right?
00:37:47
Julia
yeah
00:37:47
beyondterrain
Like, um, I think that's really important. You know, it's about that, that relationship, that client, you know, client practitioner relationship.
00:37:50
Julia
Yeah.
00:37:56
beyondterrain
Uh, and having a good match is really important.
00:37:57
Julia
Yeah.
00:37:59
beyondterrain
Like you're talking about here, you know, you guys want to sort of be working on the same frequency. Um, because at the same time, you know, and another thing, and I'm sure you'll agree with this, you know, there's really not much that the practitioner can really do at the same, like, you know, yeah we could help it some sort of abstract in very, very indirect way, but.
00:38:04
Julia
yeah
00:38:13
Julia
No.
00:38:17
beyondterrain
You know, it's always up to the individual too. Um, and so like for the listeners, you know, like if you are a good work with a practitioner, you know, we'd talk a lot about the logic stuff here. Right. So, um, a lot of them are like, Oh, appeal to authority. That's what they might be saying. Right. Um, or appeal to expert expertise. You know, there are times where it's very appropriate to appeal to expertise, but you as the individual choosing an expert, that's where it comes in. that's where your reasoning comes in.
00:38:50
beyondterrain
You know, you have to and ensure that they're trustworthy.
00:38:50
Julia
Thank
00:38:52
beyondterrain
You need to ensure that they're on the same frequency as you, that you kind of align with their philosophy and practice. Um, you know, when I go work with people, like when I, I like, I like to go see like osteopaths. So whenever I like go in and talk to an osteopath, um I asked me about their philosophy, about their approach, you know, cause I'm like, you know, a osteopath, you got a different one for every door you walk into. Um, And so it's really important that, you know, I align with their, their philosophy.
00:39:16
Julia
you.
00:39:21
beyondterrain
Cause I find for me, it's what's most meaningful, right?
00:39:21
Julia
Okay.
00:39:23
beyondterrain
So I think that's a really, really important point. Cause even in the alternative health world, you know, it's interesting. There's a lot of divide in the and alternative health world. And maybe that's just natural. I don't know. I don't like it one bit, you know, because I feel like we're all on the same team here. Um, you know, we're all, we're all against modern medicine. I'm just joking. But you know what I mean? like there is Just people. you know you can You can take this too broad. I'm getting way off topic with this one, so let's bring it back. um
00:39:56
beyondterrain
With withdrawal, with withdrawals, you mentioned her earlier with SSRIs that there can be lasting
00:39:58
Julia
Okay.
Challenges of Tapering Off Medication
00:40:02
beyondterrain
effects.
00:40:02
beyondterrain
Is there any sort of like detoxification or storage that occurs with with this or is it sort of just stored energy or um maybe more psychological than actual physical storage of these things? I'm i'm curious about your thoughts on that.
00:40:17
Julia
I think both. I think psychological in the way that it can be somewhat traumatizing to taper. Um, a lot of issues come up like forgiveness. I can't believe I let this doctor do this. Like why would I, why would I, you know, that really common. Um, also not being able to trust your body for a while. Like that is really a lot to reckon with, especially if you feel like no one wants to feel like they're abandoned by the place they live in. It's, horrifying. So that very psychological stuff. And that can take a while to reconcile and heal even after the withdrawal is over. And then the physical withdrawal, um the lasting stuff, you know, that can sort of get better because I tell people the the withdrawal doesn't end the last day you take your last dose.
00:41:03
Julia
more because it takes a while for for the medications to leave the body, for the medications and the inactive metabolites to also leave and excrete through the body. A lot of these medications are um like the resin stay in the fats of the cells and that takes a while to burn them out. Just like if somebody, you know, you'll hear the kids will be like, how do I get all this marijuana out of my, you know, blood? You're in Tuscant and it's like, Oh, well, how long you spoken for? Cause it builds up in the fat and it's hard to really get that out. And if you release it, you're going to get a hit just like you release it. So it's not a common for people months down the road.
00:41:41
Julia
Like, whoa, I feel like I'm tapering all over again. Some stuff gets released out of the fat. um I believe memory is also stored in the fat. So I can't prove this, but I think that's where it is. Because when we think about our fat, it's transducef. It sends energy, electricity. It sends neurotransmission. It also conducts nerves. um But when I think of like choline and serine, which are the two most, in my opinion, the most important phospholipids that regulate memory and attention and focus and storage, they have to be in the fat. So when that changes in the body, i I'm trying to find patterns in patients, but I do think we are going to see more, we can see more shifts of emotions that change.
00:42:33
Julia
um I'm still working on this theory. But anyways, so that takes a while. It takes a while. um We can see it and weight in fat loss, like when people lose a lot of weight, emotions change dramatically. And we can call that, oh, your self-esteem has changed because of your self-image and perception. I don't know if it's that simple, not entirely just that alone. I think there's something about memory and fat. um
00:43:03
Julia
The brain also is primarily fat. Tangent, I know, but I think about these things. So, but what you were asking is like, how long can last? And for some people it can last months, a year, two years. It doesn't mean it's gonna be horrible for that long. It just means that you might be feeling fine for months and then bam, you get hit with a random day that feels a little intense. And you're like, oh, I know what this is. You know, it's just moving through. It takes a while, like cells regenerate, organs regenerate, you know, but that does take some things very short and amounts of time, some things take years.
00:43:36
Julia
So we are always transforming.
00:43:37
beyondterrain
you
00:43:39
Julia
um So that's why like shedding our emotional skin, if you will, and our you know, these older chemicals, it just takes some time and it doesn't always leave. in the order we want it to leave. So we just have to do our best to create a sense of, in my opinion, safety. That's what's lacking for most people that get on a psych bed, you know, whether that's like they weren't feeling, they were feeling anxious or depressed. They were not at their center of a place of feeling safe within their own body. So they need the volume to calm down, all these feelings, because it's just too intense. like They don't like that. So we need to find a way for people to feel safe in the world, where they can feel safe relating to others in their own space, where they they don't feel like they need something else. um and that takes And again, that's the psychological stuff that comes
Exercise and Brain Health
00:44:30
Julia
up, too. um So it all takes some time is the very general answer.
00:44:36
beyondterrain
No, that's good. I really look forward to hearing more about that theory, the memory stored in fat that's really interesting. First thing I thought of when you brought that up, I was like, well, the brain is mostly fat.
00:44:42
Julia
thank you Right?
00:44:46
beyondterrain
So that makes a lot of sense. I'm like, that's interesting. Really interesting. You know, cause, uh, like,
00:44:51
Julia
Thank you.
00:44:53
beyondterrain
A little self disclosure, I used to like smoke a lot of pop back in the day too, and I remember like like my first significant break, you know you're kind of stoned all the time, and you're stoned all the time because it's stored in your fat. and you know like it come it It will leach back out into your bloodstream as you sort of detox it over time. you know and that's why i That's why people call, it like people will say that that guy's permafried.
00:45:17
Julia
Yeah.
00:45:17
beyondterrain
He's permafried because when he's not smoking, he's still leeching THC into his bloodstream. so he He is fried permanently, not permanently, but for the time being until he takes a break.
00:45:24
Julia
Yup. Yeah.
00:45:27
Julia
yeah
00:45:29
beyondterrain
Um, that's a really interesting example that you bring up there too. Um, so I really look forward to hearing more about that down the road because that's really cool connection.
00:45:37
Julia
Thank you for working on it.
00:45:38
beyondterrain
Um, yeah. So like that physical aspect is big, like that somatic movement experience ah for detox or helping with withdrawal. a that's That's a big part of your practice too, like exercise, stuff like that.
00:45:54
Julia
It can be. A lot of people can't exercise. and They lose their tolerance when they're going through withdrawal. Their body's just too sensitive to shifts and like you exercise, your chemicals change. So um if they can do it though, it can be really helpful. um I mean, research is pretty consistent now at this point that the brain's health is more dependent on physical exercise that is on mental exercises. So while Sudoku is kind of cool and somewhat helpful, that's not nearly as beneficial as exercise or hiking, where you're involving multiple different parts of your brain at once to move through the space.
00:46:29
Julia
Um, so same with tapering, you know, we always, we always get hyper focused on like the central nervous system, in the brain, but that's just one organ system that's affected. And the neuro transition is throughout the entire body and closely relates and affects the hormonal system, which again is rooted in the fats. So we have to think of the whole body together. We can't just try to go, oh, let's just tweak the serotonin and tweak that. Like that's just psychiatry all over again, you know? And to me, it just doesn't work because. I, I always think of it this way. Like if somebody is like, Oh, I've got low serotonin. So I'm depressed. I'm like, no, no, no. You're depressed. So you have low serotonin. It's different. Not that way. And so that's why when they looked at these people and they, Oh, you're low serotonin. Let's give people more of chance. Let's give them an SSRI. Some people felt a little better. Some people didn't.
00:47:23
Julia
You know, if it was a slam dunk, they would have been correct. You know, this is not a blockbuster drug category at all. It's actually a really badly performing drug category. um So in my opinion, like you know you'll see people going through trauma and stress, and then like you can you can check, you can look and go, yeah, you have little serotonin. Of course they do. Their system's crashing. They have to bring themselves down to get out of hyperstimulation. So I think of it more as like a response to what's happening versus a diagnostic problem to solve. like And no one's running around like, I just have little serotonin so I'm depressed. I really don't believe that at all.
00:48:05
beyondterrain
I mean, that's been largely just proven by literature to the whole seraphone hypothesis.
00:48:08
Julia
Right. Yeah.
00:48:10
beyondterrain
It was literally fabricated out of thin air and then pushed upon.
00:48:13
Julia
yeah
00:48:14
beyondterrain
It was, it was, that was just the slogan of the pharmaceutical companies back in the sixties, low serotonin deficiency or seratones. You know what I mean? And, and there was no literature that back it up. They said, Oh, it's coming. It's coming.
00:48:25
Julia
Yeah.
00:48:25
beyondterrain
And it never came and never did. And you know, there's, there's a lot of research on on that being completely untrue. But for some reason, it's such a prevailing idea amongst the people like everybody thinks that that's the main connect.
00:48:34
Julia
and
00:48:42
beyondterrain
And I said, like, I completely agree with you. If there is any sort of, you know, neuro abnormalities in the brain, because of it, that's the result. It's not the cause, you know, that's the result.
00:48:54
Julia
Right.
00:48:55
beyondterrain
So I think that's, that's a really important thing that that we talked about quite a bit too over on the on my stuff there. um Yeah, that's interesting about the exercise. you're You know, that's a really good point. um So what about something as simple as like walking or even light bodywork like osteopathy? Like, is that something that you sort of go for? I know I said exercise and I sort of, my exercise is kind of really broad.
00:49:17
Julia
Yeah.
00:49:21
beyondterrain
I even think of like yoga and walking and all that is exercise to me, right? So, um but that lighter stuff probably has a great effect on it too, right?
00:49:30
Julia
Yeah, I mean, we do wanna get to a point of some hermetic stress, like where we're like, oh, I'm starting to feel an inflammatory shift, but I'm not going into an inflammatory state. you know And that might mean somebody gets up and they walk downstairs and they walk back up and they're like, yep, that's enough. Like maybe that's what it is. Other people, it you know might be a little bit more. So you know I do tell people, you're gonna have to figure out what your stress tolerance is for exercise and movement. And then you don't want to get there and hang there. You just want to almost reach it and then you stop. And that's hard for a lot of people because like, this is awful. I used to work out all the time. I was an active person and now I can't do it. I know like it's, it sucks. It sucks to feel like you're
00:50:17
Julia
body isn't yours. like This body that you've grown into and accustomed yourself to and made deals with, all of a sudden everything's off. And so it's it all gets better, but we have to do little things and it requires a lot of work. And I think most psychiatrists don't really understand that. And that's why it's very easy to think of patients as overreacting or faking or having an underlying condition because the idea that this pill could cause such a systemic overhaul of a person's entire life probably doesn't make sense to a lot of people.
00:50:54
Julia
And that's very disappointing because to me, it's like being a mechanic and you're like, oh, let's put this part in your car. And they're like, well, it didn't work. Let's take it out. I don't know how you must be crazy. Like that's the most insane thing. You should know what you're doing. I'm so foxy, but you know,
Questioning Common Practices in Medicine
00:51:12
Julia
i um I just feel very passionately about people.
00:51:12
beyondterrain
Yeah.
00:51:16
Julia
that just don't get this information. you know They don't know what they're signing up for, the deal they're about to make. you know And again, this isn't everybody. And sometimes the pros outweigh the cons, but everyone should at least have the information to decide for themselves.
00:51:32
beyondterrain
You know, the other big issue is that oftentimes it's not psychiatrists that are given these prescriptions and diagnosis that, you know,
00:51:37
Julia
Yeah, it's your PCP. It's your gynecologist. you know
00:51:43
beyondterrain
That's the thing. And you get your 10, 15 minute appointment, you know, there's no time to even discuss the vast amount of side effects that are very common and or the, how the literature doesn't actually show that, you know, these are that effective, you know, they're just like marginally more effective than if you did nothing.
00:51:48
Julia
Right.
00:52:02
beyondterrain
You know what I mean? Like it's, they don't, they don't even have time to bring that up if they did. Right. So of course there's a systemic issue there.
00:52:11
Julia
I know. I mean, there was a study they did.
00:52:12
beyondterrain
Um...
00:52:14
Julia
um ah Sorry. It was 2018 in Cambridge, and they were they were looking at whether ADHD symptoms improved or worsened after the medication washout period. So like, after the stimulants were totally out of the body. So they took two groups with ADHD. one on the stimulants, one that never took stimulants. And they went through the washout period and they looked at them all twice over six years apart. So like really long time to see how their ADHD changed with the use of stimulants in one group. No difference. ADHD improved regardless with age um because a lot of hormones change.
00:52:57
Julia
So verbal memory change, mode everything shifts during growth, puberty, all that kind of stuff. But the moral of the story is that they made zero difference in long-term ADHD treatment. But they're prescribed all the time as a cure for ADHD. And I mean, I don't even think that's necessarily the same as all the other, they're all quite different. but This happens all the time, and it happens symptomatically. No one's running tests first to go, oh, we think you need this drug. They go, oh, you have these symptoms. What's my SS? Oh, it's like my favorite SSRI. How about this one? That's it. Like, can you imagine?
00:53:43
beyondterrain
That one doesn't work. I got 10 more that you could try.
00:53:45
Julia
Oh, yeah. the
00:53:49
beyondterrain
Yeah. Yeah. No, and I was funny. I was watching a movie on, on TV the other day. but Funny enough, like a movie on TV. Who does that anymore? Um, so all the commercials were rolling through and, um, it was like, well, every, every time there was three commercials that you saw every time. And there was one that was pharmaceutical. It was ah a different pharmaceutical drug every commercial break, but there was always a pharmaceutical commercial. Then there was like a beer one and then a betting one.
00:54:16
Julia
and
00:54:19
beyondterrain
You know, it was always like, you know, classic pharmaceutical.
00:54:24
Julia
Have a broad category.
00:54:24
beyondterrain
There was one that came up.
00:54:25
Julia
Go ahead.
00:54:26
beyondterrain
Yeah. a Yeah. So the, one of the, the pharmaceutical ones that stuck out because God, you just got to laugh at those commercials. Now it's, it's really hilarious to watch them because it's like, It's just the most random thing. Anyways, we all know what I'm talking about, the type of commercial. And anyways, this one was, I think the starting line was, does your antidepressant need an antidepressant?
00:54:51
Julia
Oh my gosh, love it.
00:54:52
beyondterrain
And it was about a, it was a drug. If your antidepressant doesn't work, you can take another one so that it might work a little better. You know what I mean? It was just like, I was baffled. I was like, don't you think if it's not working that, you know, maybe you're not addressing the underlying root cause of
00:55:07
Julia
I know.
00:55:09
beyondterrain
your depression, like anyways, it's just a completely different way of thinking.
00:55:11
Julia
Yeah, it's so many of my clients are like, I've tried them all. So it's it's amazing. like people are They want an answer. They want a solution. They want to feel better. Trying all these things. It's exhausting. like And then the idea that you know you just haven't found the right... They do have birth control too. like For women that have PMS or any other hormonal dysregulation. Oh, let's try birth control. That one made you suicidal. Let's try a different one. Okay.
00:55:45
beyondterrain
you know You can't blame people for searching either too, right? Because they're they're like in these stuff desperate situations. So it's like so understandable why they're like... you know Because it's it's also, it's understood that there is a magic bullet out there. That's what's told to the people that you know there is a magic bullet, so you just need to find which magic bullet's best for you. right And that's that's sort of the sad part of the narrative is that you know People have a lot of trust in this and you and you know, they're searching and searching and searching and they just want to understand.
00:56:13
Julia
Have
00:56:18
beyondterrain
They want to understand and they want to feel better and they want to, you know, and it's, that's the sad part, you know, for me that, that is like, it's like an endless search and they'll always be a new drug on the market, you know, so there'll be a new one.
00:56:18
Julia
a nice day.
00:56:30
beyondterrain
Uh, maybe you just try this one. No, you try it all. All of them on the market already? Here's a new one. Just came out.
00:56:36
Julia
Right.
00:56:36
beyondterrain
Just fresh off the six week clinical trial. It's safe and effective.
00:56:42
Julia
I know! It's so true. I mean, naturally, doctors are rarely anybody's first stop. Like, I do get them. It happens. There's like, oh, my mom's always taking me. I'm used to you guys. Yeah, that happens. But usually, it's people that i have tried a lot, seen a ton of people, already been spit out or funneled into psychiatry, like, and just are frankly exhausted you know from that system. And so they want something that's better.
Naturopathic Medicine Insights
00:57:13
Julia
you know Most people, when I see them for the first time, so and my job is a lot of education. you know like I get people that, for example, if it's something as simple as a UTI, we're gonna review the pros and cons of the herbs, the pros and cons of the antibiotics, and then you can choose.
00:57:30
Julia
And I, you know, like, Julia, what do you think of vaccine? Like, I'll tell you what I understand about the research, you choose. Like, it's not my job to push treatment on anybody. Like, it's, and that's what I love about naturopathic medicine is that we're not trying to just give you a band-aid and send you out the door. And while symptom suppression is actually really important, You know, it's more of a team care approach. That's why the appointments are longer. And that's why it's also more expensive because, you know, we're not most of the time we're not covered or we can't network with insurance companies. So just the way it is, you know, hopefully that'll change one day to being more doable and accessible for people. That's the biggest criticism. It's just not for a lot of people.
00:58:12
beyondterrain
Well, on that note, I think it might be a good time to wrap it up. I'd love to hear any final thoughts on the episode, anything that you might have missed, that you want to add, or anything, any message you want to give to the world.
00:58:24
Julia
Um, you know, I would just say if, if you are, you know, on a medication, not a medication, there's no shame in whatever treatment you're considering or doing. It's truly about finding whatever works best for you. Cause you're the one that lives in your body. And if your doctor is not listening to you about that. then if you can to find a new doctor, do it. um there's There's honestly so many out there now that are, you know, I actually had one.
00:58:55
Julia
patient recently who was, oh, my doctor doesn't, she's not gonna help, she doesn't support the taper. All right, like go on to psychologytoday.com, find 10 psychiatrists in your state, copy and paste the email, tell them right up front, you want a taper, you want support. Five got back to when they're like, absolutely happy to help oversee that for you. But, you know, if your doctor's got an ego and it's like, no, like find someone else, you know, and that's not just MDs, that's anybody you work with, like, whatever, if if you're not, connecting about whatever you're wanting to work on, like try to address it. Tell them if you feel comfortable, like, hey, I don't think that's right for me. See if they'll work with you. you know Always, if you feel safe, do it. And then if it's just not working, like try to find something else that is going to work.
00:59:43
beyondterrain
Good message. I love that. and I think that's really important, you know, trying to find, you know, if you're going to work some with somebody, like make sure that they align with you and your philosophy. And and it's all about you, the individual. That's, that's what's all about. And the practitioner, their primary, you know, as a practitioner, their primary concern should be you as an individual, right?
00:59:56
Julia
Oh.
01:00:02
beyondterrain
Like they should, um like, In a way they need to admit their worldview completely. And that's one of the things that I actually appreciated about the program that I was in, you know, because, you know, that was talked about a lot and it's in our code of ethics and it's, it's about, it's about, you know, it's not about you, it's about the client. It's about the individual that you're working with. And I think that's a really important message. Uh, whether it be psychotherapy, whether it be, you know, going to see an MD, psychiatrist, psychologist, an atropath, osteopath, massage therapist, whatever.
01:00:34
beyondterrain
um making sure that they they align with your philosophy. and And people generally are eager to talk about their philosophy. you know I always i say, you know what's your philosophy approach to this? Whenever I go talk to a practitioner of any kind.
01:00:46
Julia
Oh.
01:00:47
beyondterrain
And you usually, if they're in it for the right reasons, if they're not in it to just make money, you know, they're really happy to talk about that because it should be something that they're very interested in. So that's what I like to lead with. But anyways, that's really great advice. How can a listener support you and find your work, learn more from you, social medias, websites, stuff like that.
Connect with Dr. Julia Britz & Closing
01:01:08
Julia
Yeah, I am on Instagram at Dr. Julia Britz. My website is drjuliebritz.com. I try to keep active on my blog there. I try to you know give out a lot of information for people to be self-informed. And if you want to work with me, I do see people via telehealth. So you can learn more about that on my website or you can DM me on Instagram.
01:01:30
beyondterrain
Very good. We'll put those links down below too, for the listener. That's great. Dr. Britz, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate your time and all the wisdom that you shared.
01:01:40
Julia
Oh, thank you so much. It was my pleasure.
01:01:43
beyondterrain
Great. I want to thank you all for listening. You should all know that it's not medical advice. It's not therapeutic advice, not psychiatric advice, not tapered advice. It's not advice whatsoever. It's not replace relationship with a primary healthcare practitioner, the MDs. Uh, this for your informational purposes only, but also remember that we're all responsible, sovereign beings, capable of thinking, criticizing, and understanding absolutely anything. We, the people in the greater forest are together, self-healer, self-governable, self-teachers, and so much more. Please reach out if you have any questions, criticisms, comments, concerns, whatever it is, you know, or to find me on Instagram there. I love to chat with all you. Let me know what you think of the episode. I really appreciate all the feedback you guys give me. Um, and yeah, if you, if you did find this informative in any way or you enjoyed it, you know, give us a like comment.
01:02:28
beyondterrain
follow, subscribe, whatever you gotta do on the platform you're on and share. Share with your friends, families, strangers, you know, go and tell your mailman, everybody. Sharing is the best way to help support me. So I really appreciate y'all for taking the time to listen today. And just remember, there are two types of people in the world. Those who believe they can, those believe they can't, and they are both correct. All right, guys. Thanks for listening.
01:02:50
Julia
you
01:02:51
beyondterrain
Take care.