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00:00:01
A Fault Confessed is Half Redressed
40 Plays4 months ago
In this episode, Patrick and Andrew discuss the natural human instinct to avoid blame, confessing one's sins and the catharsis that comes from that, and how to apologize to your spouse.
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Transcript
Introduction & Personal Stories
00:00:00
Speaker
and the brave new world begins when all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins as surely as water will wet us as surely as fire will burn the gods of the coffee book headings with terror and slaughter returned
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello everybody. And thank you for joining us for another episode of the copybook headings podcast. If you're a new listener, just joining us for the first time. This show is inspired by the poem by Redyard Kipling called the gods of the copybook headings. And every week we take an old saying proverb or maxim and we break it down to see if we can, what we can learn from it and see if there's any ancient wisdom that's still relevant today. I'm your host Patrick Payne. And with me as always is my co-host Andrew Stevens. Andrew, how are you doing, man? Doing great. How are you? Good. I was just telling you off air. It's like, just as we were sitting down to record, my nine year old kid goes missing and we're like, what the heck? Where did he go? And everyone's like in bed. And then we're like, wait a second. You know, we have six kids. We're like one, two, three, four, five. well So, uh, I think he was just out back playing with his friends and like the field behind the house. And it's like dark. And we're like, you didn't think to come home. Like when it got dark, everyone was playing outside, you know, it's summer night and it's to get stays light late. And so that was fun.
00:01:24
Speaker
We were driving around looking for our kid. Well, I'm glad that he turned up safe. I mean, that's just kid stuff. I remember that happened to me once when I was a kid, I was like, um, this was like, you know, man, late eighties, early nineties. So like video games were just kind of hitting their, their heyday. You know, there's there's the Nintendo is out and everything. And I didn't have a Nintendo, but my, my neighbor across the street did. And we just started playing. And I remember we were just, I mean, I was just hooked. Like, you never see anything like that. You know, when you're a little kid, you're just like playing Mario for hours or something. And my dad comes over to his house and it was like 10 o'clock at night or something. I didn't realize the time. They'd been looking for me for hours. That was a big trouble, but yeah, it happens. Yeah, yeah. ah my ah When I was a kid, my sister went missing at Disneyland.
00:02:18
Speaker
during the fireworks. Really? Lost track for her, so it was dark and crowded and everything. And yeah, just got separated from the family. And so she got the, she must've been around 10 or 11, I don't know. I think it's about 10. And so she got to see like the behind the scenes lost child room that they have at Disneyland that they, you know, current all these kids in. So, you know, they, they have it, they have it locked down. They have that done with science, but it was, uh, yeah, definitely. I recall the, the stress among the, the big people. Yeah. With all the people and everything at Disneyland, it seems like it'd be a scary place, but it's probably like one of the best places you can lose your kid. I mean, there's cameras everywhere. There's security, you know, dressed up as, uh, characters. They got, yeah, it's probably a, they probably are pros at that, but anyway. Yeah.
Proverb Introduction & Context
00:03:13
Speaker
Cool, well we get a got a good proverb this week. This is one I picked. And it goes, a fault confessed is half redressed. So I picked this one, I thought it sounded interesting. When I shot it over to you, is this something that you had, one that you had heard before? I've never heard this one before, no. I mean, a familiar sentiment. um something like you know similar to something like open confession is good for the soul you know another their problem um but yeah i hadn't heard this one before so it was it was a good one and um as far as like a source what did you find on this i found it was from um
00:04:07
Speaker
Charles Churchill. Is that what you found? No, no, I didn't even find that one. I found a few conflicting ones. so Okay. we add the Yeah, Charles Churchill. hu
00:04:20
Speaker
Yeah, he um he had a poem called ah and Gotham, which was published in 1764. That's what I found. What did you find? Um, what one source attributed it to Edmund Burke in the mid 17th century, but no like actual like source of what, where he was supposed to have said it or written it. And I found another one that puts it a little earlier, but once again, no, no actual like quote. So, so I don't know. Interesting. Seems to be floating around for a while. Yep.
00:05:02
Speaker
Okay, yeah, so we've got a few different ah few different sources there. um It's been, I looked it up, it also says, I found something that said, the concept is frequently found in religious texts and teachings. For example, the Bible encourages confession and repentance as a path to forgiveness and redemption. The exact wording of the problem may not be present. The underlying principle is evident in passages such as 1 John 1.9, which states, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So um yeah, common principle of admitting your faults, confessing your sins, ah that sort of thing has been dating back a very long time. Yeah.
Confession in Culture & History
00:05:46
Speaker
So yeah, this one I thought was interesting just because um as we kind of had talked about last week about, I think, didn't we, wasn't it last week we were talking a little bit about, I'd mentioned that I had listened to some guy who was in Alcoholics Anonymous, that sort of thing. um And that's probably why this was on top of mind for me because ah in you know in in that interview that I listened to and and in and all of that AA stuff, you know responsibility, taking responsibility, own owning your actions is like a huge part of it. And it's one of the 12 step programs, its one of those steps
00:06:25
Speaker
where you can't progress until you've really fully owned your mistakes, admitted it, come to terms with it and then and then you can move on. and But I think it's super relevant to everybody. I mean, you don't have to be an addict or an alcoholic or anything like that to benefit from the concept of owning your errors, owning your mistakes and and taking full responsibility for them. um that's That's what I thought anyway. What what are your thoughts on it?
00:06:54
Speaker
Um, yeah, like actually one thing that, uh, as soon as ah you gave it to me, you know, I was sitting down trying to think of some examples of, you know, um, this just in general in history and my life, one thing that came to mind, I don't know, uh, was that, you know, the old George Washington story, right? The. When he was a kid that the cherry tree story, everyone knows the cherry tree story. And, and of course, anything, anything legendary like that has its has its detractors as as far as the, as as far as ah authenticity goes so
00:07:31
Speaker
um yeah ah So I was looking digging into that story, but I guess i'll guess we'll we'll start for the slim chance that someone has not heard this, right? the Yeah, fill us in. thats ah Those who aren't. yeah he's a He's a child. He gets a it you know a hatchet as a gift or or something, and and he ah cuts down a cherry tree, and his father is upset, and you know who did this? the I cannot tell a lie, i know it was me. And and then this the the full story is that his his father is so overcome with with ah the good character of his son for telling the truth in that situation um that you know he just you know praises him up and down. And and and so so that's the story. ah And it's something that was originally
00:08:20
Speaker
ah published like right after George Washington died, one of his first biographers, a guy named Mason Locke Weems, wrote this but this ah ah this biography you know biography of Washington. The story was in it, but the story was only in it like in the fifth edition of this book, like six years later. So um he says that it was a You know, a family friend, a neighbor, who an old neighbor who told him this story. But a lot of people today, of course, think he made it up, which I think is kind of ah an interesting paradox that if, you know, like he he wrote the story and he sort to moralize and and you're right yeah he's he's moralizing, he's trying to set a good example for
00:09:05
Speaker
for the American people through you know our first president and founding father, and but he's in the process lying about it potentially, um which is just kind of a funny thing. But yeah, so that that story came to mind for me, um where you have an incentive to lie or or to just to to not tell the truth, and and then you know good good old George tells the truth. Good old George. That came to mind for me. Yeah. ah Yeah. Yeah, I love that. That's that's awesome. um One of the things that also came to mind for me was and just even, it seems like yeah even society, some parts of society will reward this. like i i'm What comes to mind for me is like lighter prison sentences for people who
00:09:57
Speaker
plead guilty, right? They admit, yes, I did this. And they're able to usually get some sort of plea plea deal or something versus saying, you know holding out to the very the bitter end, no, I didn't do it. And then they have to go to a jury trial and the jury looks at them and said, yeah, you did. And then they take them to jail versus versus you know lessening the the blow, the punishment by by owning up to it. um Not that our legal system is perfect and we can go on and on about plea deals and some of their faults but you know the concept of but Taking ownership of your viewer of your actions can lead to yeah you know, maybe some maybe some leniency Yeah, right like but that's the intent right that to to reward that um that kind of that kind of honesty and and self-reflection and
Challenges & Trends in Admitting Fault
00:10:44
Speaker
Contrition. Yeah, exactly
00:10:48
Speaker
Yeah, this is ah this is hard for some people some folks. I know some people who are just kind of almost allergic to taking taking any kind of blame. And you know who knows why? Maybe that comes from you know being too harshly criticized as a child or something. I don't know. But um but yeah, it's it it can be really tough for some folks. and um And it's it's I think I feel like it's something that you kind of have to I do think it's something you can get better at I don't think it's if you're bad at it, you'll never get get good at it. I think by you know exercising Like anything the more you do it and the better the better you'll get at it Whereas maybe it's really difficult for you to to take blame um Starting with small things and just just taking ownership like I've i've had it
00:11:35
Speaker
I've had some experiences where there have been like huge problems, huge like um conflict. And one person was like, you know, mostly in the wrong 90 something percent in the wrong. And it can be tough for the other person because it's so clearly the ah the the other party's fault. but I think it's important to stop and reflect even in those situations and be like, okay, wait, in any situation, you should be able to reflect and and think, okay, maybe there's something I could have done a little better. I feel like we've talked about this this very thing before. Yeah.
00:12:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think you know we we have. and and um But as I was thinking about this one more more focused on um this, I was wondering though, like have we um like are we disincentivizing a lot of this kind of honesty with ah with ourselves and and taking that ownership? I feel like more and more I see um
00:12:42
Speaker
you know, more justifications for for the for dishonesty, right? And more permissiveness of it. And I think part of it, you know, it something like some things being a lot more impersonal, thinking of the grocery store. like People um are less, they're not they don't wanna rip off the grocery store when they go through the checker, like and there's a person there, and there's people helping them, but when they go through like the self checkout,
00:13:14
Speaker
you know, suddenly it's not really like a person you're ripping off. It's just this big, you know, it's the target corporation or whatever, right? So yeah you're not, so people are willing to justify it to themselves a little bit more. Well, I'm not even, I'm not harming a person. It's just some big faceless company that can't be bothered to put a person in front of me. So I feel like there's more and more of that kind of thing where people are just, um you know, justifications are easier. Do you, do you see that too? I hadn't thought about that. When you first said that, i I couldn't think of an example until you mentioned the, the, like the store. Cause yeah, that's totally, I think that's totally a real thing because when we think of bad behavior, sins, whatever, we're usually thinking we're, we're harming somebody, right? Or, you know, there's usually like some, somebody there, some victim, something, not always, I guess there's victimless crime, but, but like, um,
00:14:10
Speaker
usually it's there's there's something on there. So when there's a face of somebody that you're stealing from, usually that makes it makes it feel like oh, I shouldn't do this versus, you know, you know, a game like playing like grand theft auto where you're just running around committing crimes in the city. Like it's not real. It's just like a game. You're just yeah you know ones and zeros. Who cares? so um But it kind of can feel like that in an increasingly like digital disconnected world where everybody's, you know people aren't really connecting as human beings. It can feel like that. And I think you're right. I think it could could lead to people being more you know kind of loosey goosey about about the those types of morals.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yeah, like there's a disconnect between, like an increasing disconnect between morality and criminality. You know, the the infamous, like the infamous shoplifting laws in California i come to mind where, you know, there's just like this really high dollar amount that they won't bother prosecuting you for and things like that. So, so a lot of people abuse that shoplifting, a normal person doesn't, normal person doesn't abuse that, but, but the more and more they see, well, there's, if it's not illegal anymore, Is it, I mean, it's no longer immoral and you know, you just, you start to see that, that slow shift. Yeah. No, I think you're a hundred percent right.
Confession in Relationships
00:15:33
Speaker
Um, kind of coming back to the more specific aspect of, of, um, a fault confessed. Do you find that there's like, yeah even going from like the religious aspect of it, I know many religions, you you know, you think of like Catholicism and they have their,
00:15:51
Speaker
confession where they'll go and they'll part of their one of their like sacraments or whatever is to go and they sit behind a screen and they they tell the priest things that they've done wrong and that's you know a way for them to kind of find absolution or to or to to get some sort of redemption what do you think about about just the act itself of of confessing fault do you think that's valuable Yeah, ah absolutely. I think you know the the one I think I mentioned earlier, the confession is good for the soul. like that I think that's true. I think even an informally, not like like a structured thing like like a religious confession, but just in general like that, I think um people find that
00:16:34
Speaker
I don't know, cathartic, I guess, um and and have that kind of psychologically the remove that burden. like um yeah there's There's a lot of like these types of things are even even done anonymously. I think people do it like on on the internet. I remember there was this one ah one thing Earlier in the internet, my wife used to to read a lot, it was called Post Secret and people would like mail postcards to this guy who had a blog and and they would tell their secrets anonymously to him on these postcards and he would print, publish these pictures of these postcards. And I think that that was the idea behind that kind of thing is people even anonymously can like
00:17:22
Speaker
unburden themselves a bit. i think I think that's really only a half measure though. I think you kind of need to, yeah um you if you need to make restitution, you need to need to work on that. Or if you need to change something about yourself, you need to work on that. But yeah, I think i think it is a good thing and a useful thing. I agree. i think that I like what you mentioned about the half measures, but I do think that even that is valuable. like you said like you know taking a small step is better than taking no step. like Admitting that you did something wrong, even if it's in your own mind, is better than not at all. Even if it's in like a like a prayer that no one can hear, but you're you know talking to... you know that that ah that could That's another step. ah Talking to a priest anonymously is ah a step maybe a step further than that. and then But ultimately, I think it's most value is when you... If you've wronged somebody, it's to admit it to that person, wouldn't you say? yeah
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. But you're right. Just admitting it to yourself is really the biggest one, right? Recognizing that you need to change something, recognize that you're wrong. But yeah, and I think definitely the next step would be making restitution, making amends with someone you've wronged. This is joked about a lot in marriage, right? Because I was talking about admitting you're wrong. The husband never wants to admit he's wrong. Yeah, you know the wife's criticizing it or something ah um But I I think it's actually super Really like super incredibly important actually um to be able to admit that you were wrong sometimes and um You know, I I don't you know, depending on the type of relationship. You may not need to verbalize it all the time, you know um ah But
00:19:14
Speaker
But recognizing to yourself oftentimes is really important that that you've done something that you've misstepped. What are your thoughts kind of on the relationship aspect? Yeah, I think it's it's crucial, and it I think it's crucial that it be a two-way street in in a relationship, in ah in a marriage, in a partnership. Because if only one person is is all about you know the extreme ownership and and and admitting wrong, and the other person just digs their heels in and and will not, just that imbalance will destroy things.
00:19:52
Speaker
so Everyone involved needs to to be on board with um you know with this confession aspect, with the admitting fault aspect. Yeah, yeah, I think so. um It can be difficult, I think, when maybe one person's just on board and the other person isn't ah so much. Although, I think even if you have a partner or spouse, whether it be in ah that kind of relationship or even a you know any any kind of relationship, a friendship, a business partnership, whatever, if you have a ah partner who isn't taking responsibility that he or she needs to, I mean,
00:20:34
Speaker
You can address that with that person, but I think it's important to remember that that doesn't, if they're not doing it, it doesn't take away your responsibility to do it. Even if it feels like you're apologizing, you're taking ownership all the time for mistakes that you make and they never are, you still have your responsibility to take ownership of what's, what you know, what belongs to you. The mistakes that you have to own your own mistakes, even if they're not. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're accountable to your own, you know, moral system. Exactly. And, uh, it's, it's harder when not everyone's playing by the rules, but it is, you know, ultimately. Yeah. You you are responsible for you.
00:21:16
Speaker
Yeah, totally. All right, here's a tough one. What do you think about apologizing when you didn't do anything wrong? Like, if you really just are like, there's that trope, right? Like a marriage trope there too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, I don't know. I mean, that's a tricky one. I don't know that I've got a good answer there because, you know, the impulse is to, to just, um, a lot of times anyway, the impulse is to just try and smooth things over, just get through whatever that is. Right. So, okay. Sure. I was, I'm the bad guy here. And, but you know, if you keep doing that, it's, it's not good for you and it's not good for other people. So you gotta do the hard thing of having that conversation about it, I guess. But yeah, I don't know. That's what, what have you found there?
00:22:15
Speaker
Do you have any words of wisdom for us? Yeah, my thoughts ah on that would be probably be don't ever apologize insincerely. um Because I think that cheapens it and it it doesn't doesn't help anything. um Yeah. But I think you should apologize more often than you probably are. I think we probably all should. And how you do that, I think, while still doing it sincerely is by recognizing that, like like I mentioned before, even in a situation where one person's mostly at fault, it's really hard to get through social interactions as a as a flawed human being, which we all are, without doing anything that you couldn't have done even a little bit better. So yeah trying to think of, hey, could I have improved or done something slightly different and apologizing for for the area where you were deficient? And then also,
00:23:13
Speaker
recognizing that it's human nature to not want to take blame. And so you may have done something wrong and you're just literally not seeing it. You just have a complete blindside and and and you're you're like, I did not do anything wrong, but you did. you know that's That's very common. So understand that that could be happening. and um but But yeah, I don't believe in just being like, yeah, sorry, okay, whatever, it's my fault, I'm the bad guy, whatever, move on. i don't I don't believe in that. and But yeah, I think you should find a a way to apologize sincerely for something that you have done or could have done. Yeah, I think gone going along with that, like sometimes the the thing the the issue at hand that you are kind of being asked to apologize for, maybe not even, might not be the main issue, the underlying issue. And and if you can look through and say, well, I didn't do this, but okay, I see where she's coming from. I see maybe, um and you know you can you can talk about that and you can,
00:24:13
Speaker
tease that out together, or you can just kind of, yeah, I think, I think this is probably the real thing I should be apologizing for. And, ah and yeah, that's that one is on me. Yeah, I mean, even if it was something, even if a fight started and it was totally your wife's fault, you know maybe it became a blow up in a fight because of the way you reacted to it. So could you apologize for that? Could you even say, hey, i you know I shouldn't have said that, i I've reacted too harshly or I was being insinive insensitive or something, ah I apologize for that. yeah um And sincerely say it, don't don't make it up or or try to BS your way through it, just sincerely apologize for something you could have done better
00:24:55
Speaker
and I think if you do that, at least in my experience, when I've done that, it typically kind of kind of begins to break down the the walls and and then kind of things can can reconcile ah better from there. yeah
00:25:11
Speaker
um What do you think about Like we we talked a little bit about what society thinks of this, um the gods of the the marketplace as Kipling calls them. Cause we talked about the courts, right? the So the courts respect this principle a little bit. They they will oftentimes give you a lighter sentence for for admitting your faults. Any any other examples you can think of or what do you think about that? Anything else we're missing?
Public Figures & Apologies
00:25:35
Speaker
um
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think, one area is people don't like people who They don't like a loser and an admitting fault is often seen as a weakness and so that's why you have the politicians just Always talking around it or never never admitting fault never admitting that if there that it was their policy that failed and they they're responsible, right so that it has I think proven proven out that a lot of people don't actually
00:26:10
Speaker
value that kind of honesty. um At least, you know, in a in a transactional sense, I think, you know, in a moral sense, and ah the duty you have to yourself, I think it still applies. But it's not gonna, you have to realize that you might lose some, you might lose some battles that way, you might lose power that way. um By being true to yourself.
00:26:39
Speaker
It seems to me that the only times politicians will ever apologize for something is when it has nothing to do with their job. Like they'll apologize maybe for a personal thing you know or something that scandal that came out that really had nothing to do with their their job. but But man, they will never take ownership of a bad policy, something that didn't work, yeah a bill that went through that really shouldn't have or or cause some adverse effect. um or an attempt a bill that attempted to fix some problem that just failed and it didn't fix it at all, you you never see them take responsibility for anything like that, which is their main job to do those things. If you notice that, that seems odd to me.
00:27:21
Speaker
yeah Yeah, definitely. it's ah You always see these kinds of things, well like that was a disaster, you should resign and like, well, I'm not going to do that. I mean, come on. right i really it they they They stepped up to the plate, they they missed, you know they they struck out, they should they should let someone else try, you know um but they never do. At least not for that, like I said. Um, and then also like when they, when the, the apologies often are like, I'm sorry that. That this person was hurt. You know, like they don't, uh, they, they still try and kind of distance themselves from responsibility. make You know, play those fun, passive voice games and things like that. Yeah. It's always, uh, I'm sorry that I had an affair with my secretary. That was wrong. I've learned it's never.
00:28:15
Speaker
I'm sorry that we invaded this foreign country and there's a million dead Iraqis and we should not have done that. you know so's The consequences are huge in some cases, but like, you know, but it's it's it's really, yeah. So the personal stuff sometimes they'll theyll they'll ah they'll take ownership far when they feel like they have no other option, I guess is probably the solution, to the answer to that. Right. Exactly. um and And then like, you know, like we also talked about with You know, I think people with the impersonal aspect of things, people are are um you know not willing to to admit wrong, things like that. if they If there's not a real person on the other end of things, if they or if they perceive that way, um
00:29:10
Speaker
but stealing from the stores and probably getting Mad at people online and and you know being being hurtful that way. um People tend not to. People, people don't tend to backtrack online, right? They double down, double down and just um they might rage quit or delete, but they'll never apologize. So, yeah, yeah, no, I i i''s totally real I've been guilty of that being a little too harsh online because it feels like it's not real or or even you leave a store and you realize they gave you
00:29:45
Speaker
the wrong thing or you know you didn't pay for one of the things and it's like, ah, it's a long ways back, whatever. yeah It's easier to just forget. Whereas if it was a person that you had bought something from and you accidentally ripped them off, you'd feel like, oh, dang, maybe I should go tell this person they overpaid or or something like that. You know what I mean? So yeah, I think that's totally real. And and another thing like the you know the ah the apology thing where where someone does apologize sincerely and it's um and it's maybe it's not something that they should have their life destroyed over it ends up um you know the mob goes after them and destroys their life right so right there that shows an incentive to always stick to your guns and never apologize publicly for things that maybe you should but you're not going to be given any kind of leniency or
00:30:40
Speaker
like right Like the criminal justice system, you know the the theory being that if you if you confess and you admit wrong, you'll get a little lighter treatment. But in the court of public opinion, it's the opposite. You get you get worse by by being honest. So I think that's another way that this one is kind of undermined. Yeah, I think you're right. So in some ways, it it it I think society respects this. In other words, it doesn't. So um yeah, really good point. Well, um yeah, I thought this was an interesting one. Thanks for for your thoughts. And and so ah the the the proverb was, ah a fault confesses half redress. It's a good one to kind of keep in mind um as we kind of go forward and maybe make a point to really admit your faults. It's it's cathartic, it's helpful, doesn't hurt, and um and ultimately you'll be a better person for it, I think so.
00:31:33
Speaker
Absolutely. All right. Well, thanks for listening everybody. Thanks, Andrew, and we will see you guys all next week. All right. We'll see you. There are only four things certain. Since social progress began, that the dog returns to his vomit, that the sow returns to her mind, and the bird pulls Bandit's finger, goes wobbling back to the fire. And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins, When all men are paid for existing, and no man must pay for his sin, As surely as water will wet us, as surely as fire will burn, The gods of the copy were hideous, with terror or slaughter.