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Forgiving Mom: The Path to Understanding
21 Plays21 days ago
Forgiving Mom: The Path to Understanding
Join us in this heartfelt episode as we dive into a powerful conversation on forgiveness and understanding within family dynamics. Discover the journey Ana took to reconcile and empathize after a long-awaited talk with their mother. Perfect for anyone exploring empathy in family ties.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Paws and Think'
00:00:01
Speaker
We all have a story, and at times we feel we're walking it out alone. Let's pause and think. Join us for honest
00:00:21
Speaker
Hello, welcome to another episode of Paws and
Guest Ana La Vagnino's Background
00:00:25
Speaker
Think. My name is Aisha Elopes and I'm here with my sister in Christ and fellow adventurer in the things of God and adoption, Jackie Darby. And we're so excited because we have to share a beautiful story of another friend of ours that we met um through just miracle after miracle, I would say. And we have Ana La Vagnino.
00:00:51
Speaker
She is my fellow Guatemalan and has a bachelor's degree in education with specialization in teaching English as a second language. And she has had the opportunity to travel abroad as an interpreter and translator.
Meeting Through Coincidences
00:01:07
Speaker
And this has contributed a lot to being grateful for the goodness of God in her life. Anna is currently teaching and considers herself a lifelong learner. So welcome so much, Anna. I would very much love to ah share. Jackie and I were just commenting on how amazing was it that we met. And I would like for you to just share a little bit of how it came to be.
00:01:32
Speaker
um Jackie remembers the details and you certainly do remember the details better than I do. So let's share a little bit about what the Lord has done in your life and is currently doing, but where did it all start with us?
The Adoption Revelation
00:01:47
Speaker
Alright, so thank you so much. First of all, I want to thank you for having me and i also a big hello to everyone watching.
00:01:54
Speaker
And it's such such an honor and a gift that we're here. And um but I do remember that, I remember our time jacking in this a coffee shop here in Guatemala called Ikafe. And we had a great and lovely afternoon. um You listened to me for two hours, I guess. And this is because when I when i got the news back in 2017,
00:02:24
Speaker
and spent like one year um dealing and coping with it by myself let's say and of course with God as well but I needed a person to talk to um someone that that is in the in the context let's say and my best friend she she told me you know I've heard about Aisha Elopes and I know that she's she's in the and in this context let's say why don't you ah text care or message her or something, reach her out. and I was like, no, don't worry, I don't need it. However, my friend is the one who send you a Facebook message. aishha and Then um she copied me the the message and the the phone number, Jackie's phone number. I called her right away and it was beautiful that you answered it right away, Jackie. so We met the next day and that's that's how.
00:03:24
Speaker
That's how would it happened. Well, that's exactly how I remember it happening as well. And I'm just so thankful because we know, we believe, ah we're we're women of faith and we believe that nothing happens by coincidence and that we believe that God brought us together. But let's tell the listeners and the viewers what brought you to the point of reaching out to me. You found out some news that was pretty shocking to you.
00:03:55
Speaker
Um, and that is why you reached out to Aisha and Aisha reached out to me and we had that two hour meeting in the coffee shop. Can you talk tell our listeners what news you received prior the year prior to that, that left you pretty, um, shu shook, shook, shaken up. Can you explain what that news was and how that came about?
00:04:21
Speaker
Yes, thank you so much for the question. It was in 2017. I was in my mid 30s and I traveled to Chicago. um This was because my mother my mother was diagnosed with cancer. And because she was in this situation, she didn't know what was going to happen with the would um with treatment men and and everything. She had no idea what was the outcome.
00:04:47
Speaker
So she decided to reveal to me this ah news. she There was this day, I still remember the clearly the moment ah we were there, like she was watching TV and I was doing a puzzle, excited to do that. And then suddenly she was sitting next to me, yeah um I mean, across me and i she said, and I barely heard her her voice. And I'm like, what was that?
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, I need to tell you something and like uh, yeah, go ahead What's going on? And then she told me um, it's just that I adopted you when you were One year or two years no one year and a half years one and a half years old or so let's say, you know was like again like well i'm, sorry, what was that and uh, and then she repeated and um You know, I really, really remember this moment because I have i've never felt that nub feeling again, ever in my life. Because I couldn't react quickly, but it took me a few seconds to realize what was happening and then to process her words. And then she burst into into tears and I was like, okay, I have to do something.
00:06:08
Speaker
and then All i I decided to do is to hug her and hold her in my arms and that, okay? But I was like, I was not like 100% understanding what was happening, but- Shock. so I was shocked. And we were there in ah in this apartment, just the two of us, and honestly, the next few days, um I felt like a stranger at Like, I didn't even feel comfortable grabbing some coffee or something, but I was like, hey, wait a minute, this is home. But, you know, as time went on, she told me that she acknowledged that she owed me an apology for not telling me this sooner.
00:06:54
Speaker
And that I think that that was an open door for us to address the topic. um and Just a little caveat here for our, you know, probably the US crowd that that's listening to the podcast or people outside of Guatemala in a Latin American context. This is not a rare story.
00:07:19
Speaker
This is not a weird once in a thousand cases. This is a very common occurrence. We've come to find out and we've seen through the support group and through stories, just people randomly, you know, contacted Jackie, especially. um We've come to find out that this is a very common thing, even inside churches.
00:07:43
Speaker
in Guatemala in Latin America, everyone knows and you know the child doesn't know. And then they found find out at a funeral or a deathbed. And so we just want to say this is not an exception in our context and this is why we feel the the need to to highlight it.
00:08:04
Speaker
And we are so thankful that you are choosing to speak and to be so gracious and that the Lord is really ah using your story. And so I just wanted to to give a glimpse of why we're doing this, where why we're having this conversation.
Identity and Emotional Impact
00:08:23
Speaker
Yes. And I just want to confirm that, you know, when you and I met, I was so shocked with you. Even though you heard the news way prior to that, I was so shocked with you and my heart broke for you um because you were living a lie for so many years.
00:08:48
Speaker
of not understanding the truth of your story and just out of the blue, thank the Lord, your mom decided to tell you the truth. But in your thirties, you heard the truth for the first time. And so, um Anna, can you um explain to us and go into a little more depth um how that you know Once you started processing that or just thinking about that, just your emotions and if it played into ah affecting your identity and your ah worth? Well, that's a good question. um Thank you for that. and um okay so I six months and in Chicago one day and I came back to Guatemala.
00:09:40
Speaker
and um And I think that that was that was when I faced a reality, because it was only myself here at home. And she was there in the US. We lived to the two of us. And I think that I spent a lot of time with myself. And and it was there was ah the a time and space for me to reflect, to analyze, to analyze my my childhood. And I understood many things that There was something strange, but I was not like, oh oh yes, I am not adopted. No, no, but there was something like details, like for example, um the fact that I have, ah you know, in in Guatemala or in the Latin American culture, as I should say, we have the two last names, but the father and mother last name in our names, that's a full name. And it turns out that I i have both of my mom's the last names. So, and then I was like,
00:10:39
Speaker
That's why and um Honestly it took me a while to identify what I really felt Because sometimes it was sadness It was gratitude a lot me And but mostly ah a lot of anger But I was not sure. I was not 100% sure um who I felt that anger towards. And honestly, I felt also uncomfortable and bad that I was feeling anger because I should be grateful and and I was grateful. But then now I was had these other feelings. So it was a roller coaster of emotions. And
00:11:20
Speaker
And that during that time, um starting from that was August 2017, that I quit my job in Guatemala and I went to Chicago to be with my mom during her treatment.
00:11:32
Speaker
From that time to 2020, let's say, all those years, because I had to travel back and forth to to the US to be with her, I was them to um and was just studying at the university. So in a way, I depended on my mom for expenses. So I think that that that also kind of contributed to me feeling that I was not ah and like a regular adult, let's see, like functional, like no we must not the word, but you know you know what I mean? Like ah I'm ah and'm a regular adult, I have a job and I pay my bills and everything, but I wasn't doing that because it was, I couldn't take a job for real, let's say, right?
00:12:19
Speaker
ah privilege But the thing is that maybe that contributed like I wasn't doing anything with my life. and I have not even my last name is my last name. What's my real last name? Let's say.
00:12:34
Speaker
But don't tell me wrong. I'm really thankful to God because that I know that it was a gift for me having the opportunity to be part of a lovely family. My mother, she always supported me. But yes, to answer your question, it was a struggle to find my identity.
00:13:00
Speaker
as part of a family, part of a, you know, professionally realization, let's see. I think that we're all in a process still. And I would i would say it's fair that you that you will be you you will keep dancing this dance and like going two steps forward, one step back, and then, you know, going forward because it's just too big.
00:13:31
Speaker
you know The loss is real and the uncertainty in everything that it means for you not to have that big puzzle of your origin and your biological family. All the questions, um you know all all the feelings that you have felt, I think part of your healing is naming them and just being able to say, I was angry.
00:13:55
Speaker
I was very angry. I was sad. I was grateful as well. So it's all the mixture of feelings.
Journey of Forgiveness
00:14:03
Speaker
That's part of the healing process. How would you say your forgiveness journey has been? Because I think it's a journey. It's a decision and you're walking in obedience to God, honoring your mama, and you want to forgive.
00:14:24
Speaker
And then there's a process involved. So how has that played out for you?
00:14:32
Speaker
Well, as you were saying, it helped a lot to identify my emotions. But to see is I would have like the 50% because the other 50% is like, okay, I am angry, but is it towards And I don't feel comfortable saying this, but we're humans. Is it short and angry at at God or a mom? What is it?
00:14:59
Speaker
so um and and And I think that I'm still, as you're saying, I'm still in the process. And and maybe after 20 years, I will be in the process as well.
00:15:11
Speaker
So over the time I realized that the anger I mentioned earlier, of course, was partly directed to have my mom because um she didn't tell me sooner. But overall is because I didn't know this when my grandparents were alive. I had a really close relationship with them.
00:15:32
Speaker
And there were my second parents. my My grandmother was my second grandmother. She passed away also in 2017. So I would live. um ah Oh my goodness. I wish I knew when they were alive. So I could thank them as well. And maybe my relationship would be closer and maybe we could have a different Or ah create new memories or different memories with them. But anyway, maybe that's something that kept me angry. And also the fact that um I think most of my my family or my relatives knew about my adoption and I didn't and didn't know it. And I felt like, okay, so am am I in a reality show? Right? but It felt like Truman.
00:16:26
Speaker
Like the Truman Show. That's that's the cut. Exactly. Yeah, but I didn't see the camera anyway. but yeah And so you do you feel like you are well on your way to forgiveness or do you feel that you have forgiven your mom and your family?
00:16:45
Speaker
You know, I understand, ah actually I understood after long conversation with my with my mother that I i understood and and I accept that she didn't want to tell me that because she didn't didn't want to hurt me. So it was out of love. So i been it is complex, right? Because they The idea is okay, if you love me, tell me the truth. But I know that you don't want to hurt me, so that's why you're not telling me the truth. So it's like a loop, right? but and And unfortunately, fortunately there's no manual with step-by-step instructions for adopting. No, there's that. Yeah. And you understand. And the fact that ah that we when we know that God
00:17:35
Speaker
for forgives us and he forgave us and I get this by grace. It's my turn to forgive by grace as well. who Grace is like a big word of humans.
00:17:48
Speaker
but Yeah. And I got to say when we launched our book, who's am I? Your mom was a cutest. i I wish I had more pictures of her with her t-shirt on that you guys made because I think that it's been a healing path for her as well. I think that the cancer was just such a gift in that way that it brought truth to you know to you guys. And she's been on a healing journey as well because it's a burden to keep a secret like that.
00:18:19
Speaker
And so we were just so overjoyed to see you guys celebrating with us and her just being in the light. And so that was so beautiful.
Healing and Truth at Book Launch
00:18:27
Speaker
Yes. And I i just see it as God used all things for the good. And despite a really hard, um horrible situation with cancer, and then the truth coming out,
00:18:42
Speaker
And God used it for the good because now I know you and your mom have a great relationship. And like you said, you know, you started analyzing it, okay, God forgave me. So as a Christian, I need to forgive her, extend that forgiveness.
00:19:02
Speaker
And since knowing you and hearing your story in depth, I have watched you and seen how you've extended that forgiveness. And and as Aisha mentioned, um you guys came to have our book celebration. You wanted her to be there, your aunt to be there. So clearly, everything's out on the table and everything is you know being talked about truthfully now.
00:19:28
Speaker
so I was wondering if you could maybe name or tell um us just explain to our listeners or whoever's watching like maybe is there one specific um time or special moment where you felt that the Lord really helped you in this healing process? Oh yeah and still I still see him working in Maine right and um
00:20:02
Speaker
but Can you repeat the question again? I'm sorry. Can you um share with us like one specific time like that you really felt the Lord um helping you in this healing process of of understanding the truth about your story, your adoption, and just working through that process? How has how has God helped you through that?
Spiritual Encounter and Healing
00:20:26
Speaker
Thank you. So while we were in the US with this friend, and this this friend that we, she opened her her house and for for us to to be there and stay there. And and she's like a like a second family as well, a family in Christ. And um one friend,
00:20:51
Speaker
um my friend's friend, let's say, visited. her and we were there and he's a missionary and he was there for a while and one day actually it was 2am in the morning we were chatting and drinking coffee and like what a melon you know we like to drink coffee and it wasn't the first time but anyway we were there hanging out and then suddenly he said you know i think that we better go to sleep but before that let's pray And okay, he was praying and it was like around five people in the room. And then he said, you know, God has given me some words for each of you. And then he began with my mom and she said, okay. And he prayed for her. And then there was another person that was like, oh, da don't don't look at me, please, no, I'm not here. And then, okay, Ana, you. And then he said, you know, um this is imagine that this is me. I mean, this is God talking to you.
00:21:50
Speaker
I know that you're angry in ah know that you're angry at me and you you haven't like run because ah because you you're trying to you want to be a ah good daughter to me, but feel free to to express yourself. I see you and I feel and you feel you in in and you're not going to offend me. by opening your heart and and i am your father and i was like ah okay and then this person said you have to pray for god to reveal to you as a father not as a of lord but as a father so that's been a process for me to
00:22:39
Speaker
and pray daily. God showed me how to see you as my father because I never had a ah but a father, let's say like a human father, right? So it's been hard to me to see God as father, not as that word. So I think that doubt that was like a new chapter. oh Okay, God knows that I'm angry. So I failed hiding my anger.
00:23:07
Speaker
Right. He knows how I feel. Wow. That was a crucial moment to say. A crucial moment. Definitely. i'd Like so specific and so tender.
00:23:20
Speaker
And that sounds like Jesus, like the real encounter means real people come to him with everything that it entails. And so I'm so happy that you have those experiences with the Lord. And like you said, it's going to keep on happening because that's the kind of father that he is.
Timing of Adoption Revelation
00:23:40
Speaker
um And so give me your story.
00:23:44
Speaker
ge Do you think it's a good idea then to reveal adoption as soon as you can?
00:23:56
Speaker
oh That's the debate, I guess. Honestly, it is very difficult to determine the which is better, at a young age or an adult age. I think that each case is unique, but what I can say is that whatever the parent's decision is,
00:24:14
Speaker
it will be the best or the right one for their children when it is done out of love. I think that love is, it's the fundamental baseline, redundant, I'm sorry, but that's that's the key, I guess, because as I mentioned before, I understood that because she didn't want to reveal that to the news, my mom didn't want to tell me the the truth out of love,
00:24:44
Speaker
But but of ah of course, I understand that. And yeah so I think that that that that's crucial as well. like And and and to to build a ah close relationship, communication is important. doing So yeah parents cannot control their children's emotions. Only their children can control, they have control over their emotions.
00:25:10
Speaker
So I think that it doesn't matter what they say had when we are, when kids are three years old or five years old or 10 years old, 20, 35 years. We, we have emotions beyond the age. So I think that it is like and a very specific case. Would you agree though with us that you would have liked to have known the truth before the entire family?
00:25:43
Speaker
Absolutely. Yes, definitely. but I wonder if maybe my relationship but ah with my family would have been different. But I think that everything I lived without knowing it, that's what created my personality, of the person I am. So But I think that it will be better to know it sooner than later. We really rely on a sovereign God. We understand that in your case, your mom revealed it in your 30s and that's what's been unraveling and that's what's been happening in your life. And it's really even foolish to to just keep going back to the past and saying, we should have, they should have, she should have. That's unhealthy.
00:26:31
Speaker
But if we have to do it and say something to the parents that are considering adoption, we tend we but we vouch for the truth and bite-sized portions to the children you know at their level to give them the pieces of their story that are healthy for them to understand and to process through. um And I am so happy that you are living in the light now and that your're your mom, i'm i'm her I have her in my heart because she definitely was so burdened as a mom to carry that that weight must have been a struggle. And so I think we don't talk about that part enough and considering her motherhood being so healed and her own story and identity and worth and just walking in freedom
00:27:27
Speaker
It must be priceless. So um I think it's a combination of being thankful for the sovereign care of God in your on your life and then walking into truth as soon as possible. That's right. And you know, I think that love can do anything. Love for for ah for their children, for parents. Parents love for their children and seeking God's direction together will make a difference. And I think that there are now many resources for parents.
00:27:57
Speaker
That's right. And that's the key. The Lord has to walk with us through it all, and we need to hear from Him, but we always stand on truth is the best, the best answer.
00:28:13
Speaker
And so we marvel at your story, how God's worked it out, and he is sovereign. And so I just want to wrap it up. um Anna, we met you and God brought you into the support group that is in Latin America. And you have been a very important voice.
Support for Adoptees
00:28:33
Speaker
Your story, every story story is so new unique. And we are so ah thankful that you join the group that you've shared your story with the others who are in the group um because you have so many important things that and you're a wise woman that you share with others and I know you've been in a huge encouragement to the others who join.
00:28:58
Speaker
and so How important um has the group been to you when you joined in the times that you've been apart? um I know you've even led a group. How has that support helped you in your process as an adult adult adoptee?
00:29:17
Speaker
OK, well, first of all, to God be the glory, because ah sir I think that I told you before that God has orchestrated everything in my life and your life and this group's members' life as well. And um for us to be in this group is part of his plans and here his and His mind is higher than ours. And I think that's why where we you created that group. And I think that it is important to to talk to someone, someone that is willing to listen to you and that is not going to judge you and someone that is going to tell you, oh, you should be grateful. You're being blessed. We know that.
00:30:06
Speaker
I know it, and but but someone to listen to you and and maybe maybe, you know, I don't understand 100% your story because my story is different, but in a way we can connect because we and we understand some details that are similar details in all stories.
00:30:26
Speaker
ah For example, the grace of God, the love of God, forgiveness, very similar things in all the stories. So I think it is important, it is necessary to to talk to someone, to be part of a community that we are walking a similar path. Not the same one, but we can relate, right? So being part of the group and listening to other stories and just and and I felt understood. And also I was able to, maybe I don't have the answers, all the answers for them, but by
00:31:10
Speaker
sharing my experience and my point of view, I can somehow contribute to their their healing process, let's say. So it's a win-win, let's say.
00:31:23
Speaker
Yes, thank you. And you have definitely contributed to to others. I know you've been a huge encouragement. Again, your story is unique in in you know in so many ways. But I so appreciate that you've been part of this group, you've been encouragement to me.
Conclusion and Encouragement
00:31:43
Speaker
And I know that we feel so blessed that you were willing and vulnerable enough to share today with our listeners your story and we just want to say thank you thank you to all of the people who've connected today who've joined this podcast Pause and Think and our heart is to bring encouragement and hope to anybody who listens and to point them to Christ because as you mentioned our Heavenly Father Anna
00:32:12
Speaker
We know that our identity and our worth lies in him and him alone. And so we just want to say thank you to all who's joining um today, listening to this podcast. And we hope that you will join us next time and be encouraged and filled with hope today. So thank you.